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Speaker 1: Pushkin. As a founding member of the iconic all girl

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Speaker 1: band The Bengals, Susannah Hoffs is perhaps most closely associated

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Speaker 1: with hits like Manic Monday, Eternal Flame, and Walk Like

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Speaker 1: an Egyptian. After releasing three platinum selling albums, the Bengals

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Speaker 1: broke up in eighty nine. Two years later, Susannah started

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Speaker 1: to put out interesting solo material before reuniting with the

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Speaker 1: Bengals at the end of the nineties. Over the years,

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Speaker 1: Susanna's continued to release music and even act in movies,

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Speaker 1: including appearances in all three Austin Powers films as part

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Speaker 1: of a fictional mod band. This year, Susanna's added another

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Speaker 1: creative pursuit to her repertoire. She's now a published novelist.

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Speaker 1: Her first book, This Bird Has Flown, was released in April.

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Speaker 1: The same month, she put out a new collection of

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Speaker 1: cover songs called The Deep End, produced by the Great

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Speaker 1: Peter Asher. On today's episode, I talked to Susannah Hoffs

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Speaker 1: about how Bruce Springsteen helps the Bengals secure a record

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Speaker 1: deal after seeing them play at an amusement park just

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Speaker 1: outside of la She also tells the story of first

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Speaker 1: listening to Princess demo of Manic Monday. This is broken

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Speaker 1: record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman.

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Speaker 1: Here's my interview with Susannah Hoffs from her home in La.

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Speaker 1: How long you've been living here?

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Speaker 2: About?

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, this is really going to age me.

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Speaker 3: But I'm all into being honest about my age.

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Speaker 2: I'm sixty four.

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Speaker 1: Don't even look close to your age? Really, I look

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Speaker 1: older than you can.

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Speaker 2: No, you don't.

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Speaker 1: I look much older than you. No.

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Speaker 3: For some reason, sixty four really like has a special like.

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Speaker 3: I even got weird al who I love Yankovic made

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Speaker 3: me a special birthday message that it was more than

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Speaker 3: the usual one, that he's such a kind and wonderful

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Speaker 3: and talented guy.

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Speaker 2: But this year I got the one.

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Speaker 3: I'm sixty four, full monty, full glorious birthday message.

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Speaker 2: Anyway. How long have I been living here? About? Twenty years?

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Speaker 1: Twenty years?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And the acoustics in this room have been very

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Speaker 3: friendly to music making and having little music parties.

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Speaker 1: And how often are you playing music in here?

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Speaker 3: Pretty frequently, but we have had a few iconic music parties.

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Speaker 3: We had members of Crowded House and Colin Hay was

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Speaker 3: here playing. We had a big we celebrated one of

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Speaker 3: my birthdays and it turned into this crazy music night.

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Speaker 3: Lindsay Buckingham has played in here, yep, taking requests.

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Speaker 1: No one else is playing right, because how do you

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Speaker 1: play well along with Lindsay.

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Speaker 3: Lindsay was playing and he was just and I was

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Speaker 3: sitting in that little child's.

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Speaker 2: Chair right there by the piano and looking up.

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Speaker 3: At him as he played. Anything I asked for he did.

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Speaker 3: It was incredible. Wow, yeah, he was so what did

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Speaker 3: you ask for? I asked for secondhand news? I asked

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Speaker 3: for go your own way, I think. And then he

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Speaker 3: and Ben Harper started singing on together on a song

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Speaker 3: that I'm now forgetting, one of the great songs that

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Speaker 3: he'd written. Ben Harper was here too, and it was amazing.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, we were talking just before the mic started

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Speaker 1: rolling about your book that you put out. Yes, spurt

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Speaker 1: his phone, Yes, really.

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Speaker 2: Good, thank you.

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Speaker 3: I guess it goes back to being a kid and

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Speaker 3: a teenager, and I think it's a coping strategy to

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Speaker 3: want to.

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Speaker 2: Disappear into a fiction of some form.

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Speaker 3: I've always loved going to movies, watching movies, reading books,

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Speaker 3: and I think, you know, there's stories inside of songs too,

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Speaker 3: And I don't know why, but I just like to

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Speaker 3: kind of fill my days finding inspiration through those stories.

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Speaker 3: And again there is a bit of an escape bist

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Speaker 3: coping mechanism aspect to it, of not wanting to kind

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Speaker 3: of sit with my own my own worries or fears, and.

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Speaker 2: I like to just drift away into a story.

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Speaker 1: This is your first book, thought me, So would you

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Speaker 1: write for fun before? Like, have you ever written anything?

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Speaker 3: I started, I started a novel and I just double

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Speaker 3: checked in a drawer. It was written in like sort

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Speaker 3: of small spiral notebooks back and the date on it

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Speaker 3: is nineteen eighty nine.

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Speaker 2: So it was right when the.

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Speaker 3: Bengals journey, which was most of the eighties from me

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Speaker 3: going around of trying to find bandmates and advertising myself

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Speaker 3: in throwaway papers and the eventually meeting Vicky and Debbie

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Speaker 3: and then the band formed from there. But I had

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Speaker 3: always had a dream of writing a novel, and I

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Speaker 3: just kept putting it aside. But towards the end of

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Speaker 3: the eighties, when I felt the Bengals sort of decade

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Speaker 3: was kind of winding down and we were all kind

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Speaker 3: of antsy to do other things, I started a novel.

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Speaker 3: Now I just it's up there, but I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know if is it good.

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Speaker 3: I don't know because I'd been so immersed in the

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Speaker 3: journey of writing this bird has flown, which took several years.

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Speaker 2: It takes years to write a novel.

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Speaker 3: And because I never it was always either too lazy

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Speaker 3: or too impatient to ever take classes. In fact, I

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Speaker 3: don't even know how to read a musical chart. I

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Speaker 3: can be handed one and be doing like a choral

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Speaker 3: part with friends at like Largo, for example, I performed

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Speaker 3: with Amy Mann a lot of times, and sometimes we

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Speaker 3: would do like holiday shows, and I'd have to I'd

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Speaker 3: be handed a chart and I'd pretend to pretend to

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Speaker 3: read it.

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Speaker 2: I just kind of look at the shapes. Oh the

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Speaker 2: note went up there.

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Speaker 1: But no.

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Speaker 3: I same with pretty much everything I've done in the arts.

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Speaker 3: I kind of just threw myself in.

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Speaker 1: Which is interesting because you like you come from I mean,

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Speaker 1: both your parents are college educated. Yeah, we went to

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Speaker 1: the same school. We went to Berkeley.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we both went to Berkeley. My parents met at Yale.

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Speaker 3: My dad had gone to Yeah. I know, I came

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Speaker 3: from a very intellectual family, and yet I just I

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Speaker 3: think it's my impatience and my like a strong urge

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Speaker 3: to just dive in.

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Speaker 1: On average, how long will a writing session last for you?

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Speaker 1: Short spurts or long long.

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Speaker 3: Spurts like I'll have to set aside because I've been

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Speaker 3: doing a lot of promotion for the novel and also

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Speaker 3: for the new album. You know, in my days have

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Speaker 3: not sort of you know, opened up for me to

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Speaker 3: sort of go, okay, I just did you know, spent

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Speaker 3: four hours doing this other stuff, And it's kind of

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Speaker 3: a different kind of use of your brain. I think

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Speaker 3: with the the flow state is where you want to be,

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Speaker 3: like when your just fingers are going and you're seeing

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Speaker 3: it somehow in your mind's eye, I guess, and you

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Speaker 3: just go and you and the characters delight me. They

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Speaker 3: they I don't know where their voices come from, obviously

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Speaker 3: in my head and obviously I'm generating them. But sometimes

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Speaker 3: it actually doesn't feel like that, I guess.

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Speaker 1: Like the way some songwriters say it feels like, you know,

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Speaker 1: like Paul McCartney and Yesterday, it's like, oh, the song

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Speaker 1: must have the song must exist somewhere else. You know,

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Speaker 1: it seems like he still can't.

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Speaker 2: Believe, so he doesn't even know how it just came

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Speaker 2: to him.

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Speaker 1: The story of yesterday, as I understand it is he

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Speaker 1: woke up from a dream with that song, with that

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Speaker 1: melody in his head, and he was he wrote to it,

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Speaker 1: but he was positive it was like scrambled eggs.

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Speaker 2: Did he have another name for it.

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Speaker 1: Which was yeah, one of those was maybe it was maybe.

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Speaker 3: That was I think it was scrambled eggs until he

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Speaker 3: did did hone hone the lyrics?

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Speaker 1: The lyrics. I think he didn't believe it was actually

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Speaker 1: like his melody. Like he he was like, there must

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Speaker 1: be an old something I remember from something someone.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's fascinating. Yeah, you don't know where

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Speaker 3: these creative sparks.

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Speaker 2: Come from or how. Yeah, it's a mystery to me too.

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Speaker 2: It's weird. It's like hearing voices though in your head.

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Speaker 2: It's a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Strange, which I mean, I imagine the main character Jane came

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Speaker 1: to you first.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I kind of grappled initially we should

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Speaker 3: she be an actress? Should she be someone in Hollywood?

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Speaker 3: A sense that she should be a creative person and

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Speaker 3: a performer of some sort. But then I thought, you know, oh,

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Speaker 3: but I know what it's like.

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Speaker 2: To be a musician. I know all the different aspects

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Speaker 2: of that. You know what it.

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Speaker 3: Feels like to step out onto a stage and have

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Speaker 3: horrible stage fright and to feel like your heart is

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Speaker 3: being so loudly. You know the audience can hear it too,

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Speaker 3: Because that happens to me.

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Speaker 2: I have to kind of.

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Speaker 3: I have different ways that I cope with stage fright,

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Speaker 3: and one of them is which I didn't give to

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Speaker 3: Jane because there wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Time in this.

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Speaker 3: You know, you need predicament in a story. Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: she didn't have time to do the ritual that I do,

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Speaker 3: which is to listen to something like soul Finger by

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Speaker 3: the Barcas or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Something I can dance dance to.

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Speaker 3: I used to listen to Let's Let's Go Crazy Press,

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Speaker 3: but before walking onto a stage, Like, there is no

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Speaker 3: way I could be like me, neurotic human worrying about this,

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Speaker 3: that and the other. Will the monitors work, will my

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Speaker 3: guitar work? Will I be able to hear myself? All

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Speaker 3: the different things that go into performing live.

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Speaker 2: So I just have to like dance it out, man.

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Speaker 1: I mean is that the Bengals days when you would

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Speaker 1: listen to let's go crazy, I.

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Speaker 2: Would listen to When did I start doing it?

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Speaker 3: I think it was probably after that because I used

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Speaker 3: to use white wine as my let's go crazy. I

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Speaker 3: would always have a little bit of a few SIPs

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Speaker 3: at least or maybe maybe half of a one of

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Speaker 3: those like plastic cups that you get backstage.

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Speaker 1: Oh like just like the solo cup.

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Speaker 2: I have a solo cup.

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Speaker 3: The memories are resurfacing now and I'd be like, someone

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Speaker 3: would try to talk to me, and I'd like, I

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Speaker 3: can't talk to you now. I'm working on down in

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Speaker 3: like a quarter of this so that I can have

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Speaker 3: some liquid courage to step out onto a stage. And

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Speaker 3: I write about this in the book and become her

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Speaker 3: or someone who could walk out onto a stage and

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Speaker 3: strap on her guitar and I don't know, bring it,

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Speaker 3: bring it and hope that the voice is working and

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Speaker 3: everything else.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: The writing the book actually made me think about what

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Speaker 3: that experience was in a deeper way than I kind

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Speaker 3: of ever had.

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Speaker 1: One of the cool things about the character I think

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Speaker 1: is it's not like a character. It's not an artist

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Speaker 1: who's at there, you know, creative and commercial peak. It's

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Speaker 1: like someone who sort of has had that is, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of lost their way a bit totally.

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Speaker 3: I mean more than that, like everything in her life

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Speaker 3: that could go wrong has gone wrong. Yeah, dumped and

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Speaker 3: cheated on by the boyfriend, the long term boyfriend, the producer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, being thirty three, that.

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Speaker 3: Alone, Like I remember, it seemed like right now, is

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Speaker 3: that what you are?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's going to be okay.

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Speaker 1: What you said, it's.

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Speaker 3: Going to be okay. I can attest to it. At

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Speaker 3: sixty four, things are really good. So it's all a mindset.

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Speaker 3: But for I don't know, it seemed to be a

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Speaker 3: thing that there's kind of a peak time for I

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Speaker 3: don't know people in the music business certainly and maybe

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Speaker 3: even in the movie business that they're being young and

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Speaker 3: in your twenties even or even like it is a

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Speaker 3: prime real estate or chance to be you know, if

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Speaker 3: all goes well, you know, you're you're, people will know

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Speaker 3: about you, you'll be able to do good work, whether

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Speaker 3: it's in a movie or in recording industry.

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Speaker 1: It was the book in a way, a way to

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Speaker 1: sort of offset some level of yeah, you know, just

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Speaker 1: malaise in your own Yeah, it wasn't malaise.

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Speaker 3: It was like, how do I stay creative because all

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Speaker 3: I want to do the juices are flowing, but like

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Speaker 3: where to put them?

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Speaker 2: Another screenplay? Try again? You know?

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Speaker 3: In that and it was it was how I fell

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Speaker 3: so deeply in love with the process that like Jay

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Speaker 3: would come home and go, wait, you're still sitting there

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Speaker 3: at the kitchen table when I used to write at

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Speaker 3: the kitchen table, and I'd be like, yeah, and I'm

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Speaker 3: right in it, like ensconced in this moment, and I

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Speaker 3: found it just blissful, yea, even though it's hard.

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Speaker 1: Did you write the album your new album at the same.

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Speaker 3: Time, Well, I didn't write it, mostly because I was

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Speaker 3: still very much engaged with the writing of the book

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Speaker 3: book and when Little Brown bought the book, and then

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Speaker 3: you go through a period of revisions. I met up

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Speaker 3: with Peter Asher during right in the mix of Peter.

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Speaker 2: I did it with the.

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Speaker 3: Great Peter Asher, who you know was the first president

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Speaker 3: of Apple Records and produced James Taylor and Linda Ronstett

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Speaker 3: records that literally changed my life. And I taught myself

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Speaker 3: to sing. Just like with the book writing, I didn't study.

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Speaker 3: I just studied by mimicking albums. So whether it was

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Speaker 3: a Joni Jony albums or Linda albums, you know, and

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Speaker 3: the Peter Asher were so great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So Peter randomly reached out at a very dark place

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Speaker 3: during the pandemic when we were all really stuck at home,

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Speaker 3: but we were starting to be able.

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Speaker 2: To go out.

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Speaker 3: We'd been vaccinated, you know, things were looking brighter. And

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Speaker 3: I started to go to Malibu twice a week and

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Speaker 3: we would just sit around with guitars and just sing

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Speaker 3: like campfire style. Yeah, and then we realized there was

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Speaker 3: a handful of songs that because I was so engrossed

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Speaker 3: in doing revisions still on the book, it was fun

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Speaker 3: to just cover songs. And then it went from sitting

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Speaker 3: in his living room with guitars and singing to the

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Speaker 3: idea to call Elvis Costello and on the EP that's

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Speaker 3: not out yet, Wed, we recorded so much music that

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Speaker 3: we made an album. It was like we could have

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Speaker 3: been a double album we were considering, which would be

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Speaker 3: very old school, like very seventies, but we ended up

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Speaker 3: putting out the album and then we have sort of

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Speaker 3: an EP. But Elvis Costello I wanted to I always

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Speaker 3: wanted to do the Keith Richards high harmony on Connection

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Speaker 3: there the rolling Stone song, so we sing that together

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Speaker 3: and I'm Keith and Elvis's mixed. So yeah, that album

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Speaker 3: has a ever so slightly leaning towards country and western

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Speaker 3: sort of material. But again, I was still working with

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Speaker 3: my publishers and doing final revisions during that time and

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Speaker 3: h and at the same time driving out to Malibu

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Speaker 3: to this beautiful studio and hanging out with Russ Kunkle

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Speaker 3: and Leland Sklarr and Waddi walk Tell and Danny Korchmar

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Speaker 3: during the pandemic incredible.

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Speaker 1: I mean those are like that, I know, those are

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Speaker 1: the guys.

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Speaker 3: They're amazing and they're wonderful human beings, and I just

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Speaker 3: I was really kind of like pinching myself the whole time,

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Speaker 3: like feeling such gratitude.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned in the session players your minded me believe

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Speaker 1: it's on your first record. You had John Entwhistle, I know,

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Speaker 1: play bass.

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Speaker 3: I know my first solo record. Yeah, and Mick Fleetwood

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Speaker 3: I think played on something too.

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Speaker 1: John hem Whistle's bass plane is that's amazing. Guy's incredible,

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Speaker 1: I know. Back to the new record, Yeah, a surprise

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Speaker 1: under my film was there to lead things off. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what are your feelings on the original.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well I love it.

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Speaker 3: I love it, and I love the Stone And because

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Speaker 3: I was in the Bengals, and because the Bengals Beatles

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Speaker 3: there was always like a connection for us, because it

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Speaker 3: was the glue that cemented us. Was like being little

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Speaker 3: girls growing up and when the British invasion happened and

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Speaker 3: the Beatles were everything.

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Speaker 1: You know, the song about Liverpool on the first d Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it was so part of like the bengalsgeist. But

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Speaker 3: I love the Stones, and in the Stones I came

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Speaker 3: to know and love more like in college and during

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Speaker 3: the eighties when because I had been so engrossed with

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Speaker 3: the Beatles music and they were so supreme to me.

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Speaker 2: As you know, they just they affected.

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Speaker 3: My life so deeply and it kind of got the

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Speaker 3: ball rolling on my career and or I call it

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Speaker 3: a career, my journey as a musician and lover of

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Speaker 3: music above and beyond anything. But yeah, I was just

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Speaker 3: one day listening to the Stones on my morning walk.

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Speaker 3: And I'm one of those people who, you know how

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Speaker 3: some people say I always listened to the lyrics first,

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Speaker 3: or I always dial in on the music first. I

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Speaker 3: always considered myself someone who was like more more sort

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Speaker 3: of entranced by the music, and sometimes I would tune out,

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Speaker 3: like really focusing in on what are they saying here?

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Speaker 2: And that was the case for me.

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Speaker 3: Weird that I went on to write a novel, but

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Speaker 3: given that, so I just was listening to it.

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Speaker 2: And I went, wait a minute, Wait a.

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Speaker 3: Minute, this is very retro and I thought, wow, like,

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Speaker 3: how fun it would be to turn the tables.

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Speaker 1: My thin defense of it has always been it's thin.

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Speaker 1: I recognize it, but I've always told they need defend

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Speaker 1: because I just love the song. It's one of the

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Speaker 1: great songs. Is it's It's under my thumb the girl

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Speaker 1: who who once had me down? Yeah, And so it's

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Speaker 1: like it was it was role reversed. It was it

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Speaker 1: wasn't that like men need to put their thumb on

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Speaker 1: women or that make even necessarily in every relationshipiel he's making.

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Speaker 2: It's his personal story.

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Speaker 1: Yet men thumb And so now I got Now.

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Speaker 3: So he's just saying his truth there, like he's just

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Speaker 3: expressing his emotion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I just thought much.

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Speaker 3: I just was thinking, like, you know, in feminist terms,

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Speaker 3: that it would be fun to turn the tables on that.

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Speaker 3: And and and actually there's there's a lot of sexuality

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Speaker 3: in that song. I mean, there's sexuality in rock and roll.

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Speaker 3: It is. It is why we love it. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's intrinsic to the to the genre.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's so. I thought I just it was.

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Speaker 1: It's all music, really, it's everything gospel, you know, in

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Speaker 1: an unspoken sort of way.

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Speaker 2: I agree.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, God, we could go on a deep, deep dive

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Speaker 3: on that we wanted to.

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Speaker 1: We have to take a quick break and then we'll

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Speaker 1: come back with more of my interview with Susannah Hoffs.

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Speaker 1: We're back with more from Susannah Hafs. When you recorded

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Speaker 1: the Bengals, what was that experience?

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Speaker 3: Like the EP that was a little more that was

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Speaker 3: pre getting signed to Sony. So that was with an

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Speaker 3: amazing producer, Craig Leon. He was wonderful to work with.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, he suicide.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he did the Ramones and also did he work

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Speaker 3: with the Go Gos? I don't think so, but the

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Speaker 3: Ramones for sure.

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Speaker 1: Blondie, Yeah, Blondie so cool.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So Blondie and the Ramones were the notable bands

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Speaker 3: that he had worked with that you know, we were like, okay, yes,

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Speaker 3: please please produce EP.

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Speaker 1: How did you How did you get connected with him?

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Speaker 3: Then our managers maybe we were at that point with

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Speaker 3: Miles Copeland, who managed the Police, and so it's possible

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Speaker 3: that Miles it must have been somehow connected to through that.

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Speaker 1: How did you get the Columbia contract?

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Speaker 3: Well, it was the only record company who was interested

385
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Speaker 3: in us, and Peter Philb in the A and our

386
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Speaker 3: guy brought Bruce Springsteen to see us play at Magic Mountain.

387
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Speaker 3: So Peter Philbin was the only music and our guy

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Speaker 3: that seemed to have taken an interest in the Bengals,

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Speaker 3: even though we had a kind of we were a

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Speaker 3: popular local club band in Los Angeles and we're playing,

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Speaker 3: you know, tons of gigs at the Whiskey of Go Go,

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Speaker 3: and and at a.

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Speaker 1: Time when the LA scene, the club scene was.

394
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Speaker 3: It was happening, New wave was happening, punk rock was happening.

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Speaker 3: There was kind of a we were somewhere in the

396
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Speaker 3: middle between new wave and punk rock, and we were

397
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Speaker 3: something that was more like now deemed Paisley Underground, which

398
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Speaker 3: was we were a band in the eighties who were

399
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Speaker 3: obsessed with music from the sixties and trying to drag

400
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Speaker 3: those sounds and the twelve string guitar, electric guitar, like

401
00:20:59,396 --> 00:21:02,436
Speaker 3: the Birds and stuff like that into our sound. It

402
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Speaker 3: was like the Birds on guitars meets the Mamas and Papas,

403
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Speaker 3: So the Mamas and the Mamas we would have been,

404
00:21:08,516 --> 00:21:11,836
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, So at that time we were we

405
00:21:11,836 --> 00:21:15,236
Speaker 3: were really part of a very vibrant scene in LA

406
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Speaker 3: that wasn't punk but had punk.

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Speaker 2: Leanings and were scrappy. We weren't polished.

408
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Speaker 3: We were thrift store wearing girls who were mostly self taught.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: There was no sort of American idol sort of like

411
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Speaker 3: world at that point, and we wouldn't have wanted that anyway.

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Speaker 3: We were really we were really a garage band. But anyway,

413
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Speaker 3: it was basically kind of crickets from the record industry.

414
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Speaker 3: Nobody was like, we weren't on anyone's radar until was

415
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Speaker 3: it discouraging?

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Speaker 2: Not really.

417
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Speaker 3: I mean we were young and kind of brash, thinking

418
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Speaker 3: like we weren't kind of in some ways we weren't focused.

419
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Speaker 3: I wasn't focused on that. I wasn't like the focus

420
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Speaker 3: was not and I think this is true for the

421
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Speaker 3: whole band. The focus was not we got to become

422
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Speaker 3: pop stars. The focus was, you know, we want to

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Speaker 3: connect with an audience and we want to be ourselves,

424
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Speaker 3: you know, And I think that was a good thing

425
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Speaker 3: about the band.

426
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Speaker 2: We weren't. There wasn't this Fengali.

427
00:22:18,636 --> 00:22:22,796
Speaker 3: Who lined up a couple, you know, different people based

428
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Speaker 3: on how they looked and then put them in with

429
00:22:26,316 --> 00:22:30,556
Speaker 3: songwriters or anything like that. We were definitely a grassroots

430
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Speaker 3: garage band. And interestingly, at the time that Miles Copeland

431
00:22:36,076 --> 00:22:39,356
Speaker 3: took us on as management clients, he was also putting

432
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Speaker 3: together a version of that other kind of band with

433
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Speaker 3: Darryl Hannah was in it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

435
00:22:45,076 --> 00:22:49,756
Speaker 3: It was like all really beautiful sort of models and

436
00:22:49,876 --> 00:22:54,156
Speaker 3: actresses that he found and made a girl.

437
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Speaker 2: Called what was it called? Oh gosh, I.

438
00:22:56,556 --> 00:22:58,556
Speaker 3: Could try to find out the name of it, the

439
00:22:58,596 --> 00:23:01,156
Speaker 3: band that it was. I think I want to say

440
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Speaker 3: American Girls, which sounds like the name of those dolls.

441
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Speaker 1: Yeah. I want to get back to the Columbia stuff.

442
00:23:06,636 --> 00:23:10,396
Speaker 1: But to your point of like nose Golly putting you together.

443
00:23:10,756 --> 00:23:13,676
Speaker 1: It's interesting too, though that you had Michael Steele in

444
00:23:13,756 --> 00:23:16,956
Speaker 1: the group, the bass player, the bass player from the Runaways,

445
00:23:17,316 --> 00:23:19,596
Speaker 1: which kind of was even though they were also kind

446
00:23:19,596 --> 00:23:22,236
Speaker 1: of put together in right.

447
00:23:22,316 --> 00:23:24,636
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Kim Fallely called me when I was living

448
00:23:24,636 --> 00:23:28,196
Speaker 3: in the garage of my parents' home in West la

449
00:23:28,436 --> 00:23:32,436
Speaker 3: and and I just like I had such radar, you know,

450
00:23:32,796 --> 00:23:35,716
Speaker 3: I knew who he was and I was like, no, thanks,

451
00:23:36,236 --> 00:23:36,396
Speaker 3: you know.

452
00:23:36,516 --> 00:23:37,836
Speaker 1: It was just before the Bengals.

453
00:23:38,036 --> 00:23:41,356
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like in the early days of the Bengals.

454
00:23:42,036 --> 00:23:44,396
Speaker 3: Michael didn't join until there was a bass player in

455
00:23:44,396 --> 00:23:47,236
Speaker 3: net Zelenskis, who was in the band in those early days.

456
00:23:47,476 --> 00:23:51,036
Speaker 3: But right before, around the time, she wanted to leave

457
00:23:51,076 --> 00:23:55,276
Speaker 3: to do more country and Western music and wasn't feeling

458
00:23:55,316 --> 00:23:58,476
Speaker 3: comfortable in the band. And fair enough, I love Annette,

459
00:23:58,476 --> 00:24:02,476
Speaker 3: we're really dear friends to this day, but she wanted

460
00:24:02,676 --> 00:24:04,996
Speaker 3: she just wanted to move on. And that's when there

461
00:24:05,036 --> 00:24:07,956
Speaker 3: was this opportunity for Michael Steele, who had been in

462
00:24:07,996 --> 00:24:11,476
Speaker 3: the Runaways to and she was a very very accomplished

463
00:24:11,516 --> 00:24:15,076
Speaker 3: bass player. She loved playing bass. She has a gorgeous voice,

464
00:24:15,196 --> 00:24:19,356
Speaker 3: so really closing a great songwriter. She was extraordinarily and

465
00:24:19,516 --> 00:24:23,716
Speaker 3: is extraordinarily talented. So when she joined the band, everything

466
00:24:23,796 --> 00:24:26,716
Speaker 3: kind of fell into place. And it was around then

467
00:24:27,196 --> 00:24:29,996
Speaker 3: that Columbia sort of went and it was just Peter

468
00:24:30,076 --> 00:24:32,516
Speaker 3: Philben and he took Bruce Springsteen to see us at

469
00:24:32,596 --> 00:24:36,236
Speaker 3: Magic Mountain in Valencia, and all I know is that

470
00:24:36,596 --> 00:24:39,756
Speaker 3: Bruce must have liked us enough and said something and

471
00:24:39,876 --> 00:24:42,276
Speaker 3: vetted us in some way. And I finally had a

472
00:24:42,356 --> 00:24:46,116
Speaker 3: chance to thank him for that when he was at

473
00:24:46,156 --> 00:24:50,756
Speaker 3: the What's the Grammy Salute to the Grammy Salute? Yeah,

474
00:24:50,836 --> 00:24:54,436
Speaker 3: music care is Grammy Salute? And Jud Apatow, who loves

475
00:24:54,476 --> 00:24:57,676
Speaker 3: Bruce Springsteen and John Stewart, was the host that night.

476
00:24:58,116 --> 00:25:01,676
Speaker 3: Jay and I got a seat at Jud's table, yet

477
00:25:01,676 --> 00:25:03,636
Speaker 3: he had never met Bruce, and I said, well, I'll

478
00:25:03,636 --> 00:25:06,556
Speaker 3: be brazen and just drag you over there and reintroduce

479
00:25:06,676 --> 00:25:09,516
Speaker 3: myself to him, which I did, And I have really

480
00:25:09,556 --> 00:25:12,716
Speaker 3: cool picture where it's mostly that you see Bruce's wife,

481
00:25:12,796 --> 00:25:16,916
Speaker 3: Patty talking to Tom Hanks's wife Rita. Yeah, and in

482
00:25:16,956 --> 00:25:20,436
Speaker 3: the background, I'm smiling and I see and it's a

483
00:25:20,476 --> 00:25:24,356
Speaker 3: profile of Jud and Bruce smiling.

484
00:25:24,036 --> 00:25:24,516
Speaker 2: At each other.

485
00:25:24,556 --> 00:25:25,076
Speaker 1: I'll show you.

486
00:25:25,156 --> 00:25:28,156
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have not seen Bruce since that.

487
00:25:28,436 --> 00:25:30,116
Speaker 1: No, since the Magic Mountain.

488
00:25:29,876 --> 00:25:31,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean yeah, it was it.

489
00:25:31,676 --> 00:25:33,516
Speaker 1: Like medium then, like oh.

490
00:25:33,676 --> 00:25:34,436
Speaker 2: It was cool.

491
00:25:34,596 --> 00:25:37,756
Speaker 3: I mean we were so we didn't know he was

492
00:25:37,796 --> 00:25:42,076
Speaker 3: coming to see us, so we were just like, what's happening,

493
00:25:42,516 --> 00:25:46,436
Speaker 3: you know? But I don't think that Bruce thinks of

494
00:25:46,476 --> 00:25:49,436
Speaker 3: it this way or even particularly remembers seeing us at

495
00:25:49,476 --> 00:25:52,756
Speaker 3: Magic Mountain, But I always put it together that the

496
00:25:52,836 --> 00:25:55,396
Speaker 3: one label that wanted us, which was Columbia, or that

497
00:25:55,476 --> 00:25:58,836
Speaker 3: were intrigued with us and made that trap all the

498
00:25:58,876 --> 00:26:02,996
Speaker 3: way from you know, Century City to Valencia, which is

499
00:26:03,036 --> 00:26:07,516
Speaker 3: a bit of a commitment, and also had the thought to.

500
00:26:07,596 --> 00:26:09,436
Speaker 2: Bring Bruce Springsteene.

501
00:26:09,476 --> 00:26:13,796
Speaker 3: Yes, like, here's this grungey little garage band, all girl band.

502
00:26:14,236 --> 00:26:15,796
Speaker 2: But all I know is.

503
00:26:15,716 --> 00:26:19,716
Speaker 3: That they made that offer shortly after that, So something

504
00:26:19,756 --> 00:26:21,876
Speaker 3: he did must have been said.

505
00:26:21,916 --> 00:26:23,156
Speaker 2: He must have liked us enough.

506
00:26:24,276 --> 00:26:28,356
Speaker 1: Now, how quickly did you start to make your first record? Oh?

507
00:26:28,396 --> 00:26:33,076
Speaker 3: Well, let's see. David Kahn was our producer, and we

508
00:26:33,156 --> 00:26:36,316
Speaker 3: went through a whole I don't remember now, it's a

509
00:26:36,356 --> 00:26:38,836
Speaker 3: long time ago, but I remember that we just did

510
00:26:39,276 --> 00:26:42,636
Speaker 3: a pretty deep dive into like an extension of what

511
00:26:42,756 --> 00:26:45,076
Speaker 3: our rehearsals would have been. But with David there to

512
00:26:45,156 --> 00:26:48,516
Speaker 3: kind of think in terms of the record, we rehearsed

513
00:26:48,556 --> 00:26:52,876
Speaker 3: and we played a lot of stuff not in the studio, yes, songs,

514
00:26:52,996 --> 00:26:56,636
Speaker 3: songs we'd written. We showed him everything we had and

515
00:26:56,716 --> 00:26:58,996
Speaker 3: we just kind of went from there. We were a

516
00:26:59,036 --> 00:27:02,996
Speaker 3: band that were figured out our sound in part, in

517
00:27:03,156 --> 00:27:05,996
Speaker 3: large part by covering songs that we like. That's how

518
00:27:06,036 --> 00:27:08,916
Speaker 3: we figured out how to be bangles, you know. Like,

519
00:27:09,796 --> 00:27:12,236
Speaker 3: so we would cover a lot of songs and they

520
00:27:12,236 --> 00:27:16,476
Speaker 3: were almost always kind of cool, obscure nineteen sixties songs.

521
00:27:16,676 --> 00:27:17,996
Speaker 1: Stuff didn't even make records.

522
00:27:18,156 --> 00:27:20,916
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like Pushing Do Hard by the Seeds, Debbie

523
00:27:20,916 --> 00:27:24,156
Speaker 3: saying that one there was a song called Kicks by

524
00:27:24,516 --> 00:27:27,756
Speaker 3: Paul Revere and the Raiders. We liked Paul Revere and

525
00:27:27,756 --> 00:27:29,516
Speaker 3: the Raiders songs. I think we might have done two

526
00:27:29,596 --> 00:27:31,916
Speaker 3: of their songs. We did where Were You When I

527
00:27:31,996 --> 00:27:34,756
Speaker 3: Needed You? Which was the grassroots. I sang that one,

528
00:27:35,556 --> 00:27:38,556
Speaker 3: which is like very jangly twelve string.

529
00:27:39,156 --> 00:27:41,956
Speaker 1: Looking back on that first record, what is your feeling

530
00:27:42,076 --> 00:27:42,516
Speaker 1: towards it?

531
00:27:43,156 --> 00:27:45,796
Speaker 3: I think good, you know, I'd like probably a lot

532
00:27:45,796 --> 00:27:48,316
Speaker 3: of people you talked to who've made records, and like,

533
00:27:48,396 --> 00:27:53,236
Speaker 3: many decades have passed. I haven't revisited it in a

534
00:27:53,236 --> 00:27:58,436
Speaker 3: long time, but I do remember we've recorded a lot

535
00:27:58,476 --> 00:28:02,556
Speaker 3: of it up at place called Skylight, I think in Panga,

536
00:28:03,076 --> 00:28:06,676
Speaker 3: So that was cool, and there was different Hollywood studios

537
00:28:06,716 --> 00:28:10,076
Speaker 3: that we worked in. I just remember that I learned

538
00:28:10,076 --> 00:28:13,876
Speaker 3: a lot from David Kahn. He was really obsessed with arrangement.

539
00:28:14,756 --> 00:28:20,316
Speaker 3: And I feel happy that Prince discovered us through Hero

540
00:28:20,476 --> 00:28:23,236
Speaker 3: Takes a Fall, which was a song that Vicky and I,

541
00:28:23,276 --> 00:28:26,116
Speaker 3: who were really kind of a writing team within the band,

542
00:28:26,796 --> 00:28:29,596
Speaker 3: came up with in the garage where I was living.

543
00:28:29,676 --> 00:28:32,356
Speaker 3: It was that early on before we could kind of

544
00:28:32,396 --> 00:28:36,316
Speaker 3: like afford to move out of, in my case, my parents' house.

545
00:28:36,436 --> 00:28:37,876
Speaker 2: You know, I was still living at home.

546
00:28:38,396 --> 00:28:42,276
Speaker 3: So we're to think now when I think back on it,

547
00:28:42,316 --> 00:28:44,996
Speaker 3: because then I suddenly had this like job that was

548
00:28:45,076 --> 00:28:47,956
Speaker 3: a real job, and then I was on a label,

549
00:28:48,196 --> 00:28:52,276
Speaker 3: and you know, I had commitments and responsibilities. I wasn't

550
00:28:52,316 --> 00:28:55,516
Speaker 3: just a kid post college living in my parents' garage,

551
00:28:55,556 --> 00:28:58,716
Speaker 3: although I did live there for a big, big, big

552
00:28:58,796 --> 00:29:02,036
Speaker 3: chunk the majority of the Bengals thing, I was living

553
00:29:02,036 --> 00:29:05,276
Speaker 3: in a garage. Really yeah, just because once it took

554
00:29:05,316 --> 00:29:07,836
Speaker 3: off and we were traveling all over the place, I mean,

555
00:29:08,236 --> 00:29:12,196
Speaker 3: no one thought to buy houses until way later in

556
00:29:12,236 --> 00:29:15,236
Speaker 3: the process. We there was like a year where we

557
00:29:15,276 --> 00:29:18,316
Speaker 3: all were like, wait a minute. It really took us

558
00:29:18,356 --> 00:29:21,396
Speaker 3: a long time. It was towards the tail end of

559
00:29:21,476 --> 00:29:23,836
Speaker 3: the decade of the eighties where we sort of actually

560
00:29:23,916 --> 00:29:26,476
Speaker 3: were like, there was the year that everybody bought a car,

561
00:29:27,116 --> 00:29:30,316
Speaker 3: so we weren't used driving a car that our parents

562
00:29:30,316 --> 00:29:34,236
Speaker 3: had happened. You know, I bought a white BMW.

563
00:29:33,756 --> 00:29:34,756
Speaker 2: Three twenty five.

564
00:29:35,516 --> 00:29:39,436
Speaker 3: It was snazzy, get on a car phone, hardwired into

565
00:29:39,556 --> 00:29:40,756
Speaker 3: it with a curly chord.

566
00:29:40,876 --> 00:29:43,196
Speaker 2: You know, there was that eighty seven.

567
00:29:43,916 --> 00:29:47,676
Speaker 1: Amazing they had the car, I had a car phone.

568
00:29:48,516 --> 00:29:50,676
Speaker 1: I remember being mesmerized by those as a kid.

569
00:29:50,716 --> 00:29:52,836
Speaker 3: When I said, yeah, I know, they were like, whoa,

570
00:29:52,876 --> 00:29:54,036
Speaker 3: They're like from the future.

571
00:29:54,316 --> 00:29:56,676
Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't it like ancient history?

572
00:29:57,156 --> 00:30:00,036
Speaker 1: That record was so cool because it sounds like you

573
00:30:00,076 --> 00:30:02,876
Speaker 1: guys really figured out who you were from the EP

574
00:30:03,076 --> 00:30:06,076
Speaker 1: to the first kind of full length. Yeah, it seems

575
00:30:06,076 --> 00:30:08,916
Speaker 1: like you and VICKI kind of figured out your song.

576
00:30:09,516 --> 00:30:10,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of for sure.

577
00:30:11,956 --> 00:30:15,796
Speaker 1: Rhythm, yes, guys. Yeah. How did it feel when the

578
00:30:15,836 --> 00:30:18,836
Speaker 1: next record came out and it was such a big

579
00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:20,956
Speaker 1: because it's all these steps. It's like you do the

580
00:30:20,996 --> 00:30:23,196
Speaker 1: EP and you sign and you do this big record.

581
00:30:23,236 --> 00:30:25,876
Speaker 1: Then it's like the next record is like huge.

582
00:30:26,196 --> 00:30:27,316
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was crazy.

583
00:30:27,436 --> 00:30:31,876
Speaker 3: So there was a big leap somehow from the studio

584
00:30:31,916 --> 00:30:35,436
Speaker 3: we were working in Tapanga for that first album all

585
00:30:35,436 --> 00:30:40,516
Speaker 3: over the place, and then we went to Sunset Sound Factory,

586
00:30:40,676 --> 00:30:43,556
Speaker 3: which is the smaller of the two Sunset Sounds that

587
00:30:43,636 --> 00:30:47,396
Speaker 3: are sister studios, and that's where we started to work

588
00:30:47,436 --> 00:30:51,556
Speaker 3: on Different Light with David Kahn again. That record ended

589
00:30:51,636 --> 00:30:56,156
Speaker 3: up having some radio hits, including Manic Monday. So Prince

590
00:30:56,196 --> 00:30:59,476
Speaker 3: had really he really liked our video of Hero Takes

591
00:30:59,516 --> 00:31:01,276
Speaker 3: a Fall, which was that song that Vicky and I

592
00:31:01,276 --> 00:31:04,596
Speaker 3: wrote in the garage on the prompting of David Kahn

593
00:31:04,636 --> 00:31:09,356
Speaker 3: to write something that wasn't like a cowby, like a

594
00:31:09,676 --> 00:31:11,396
Speaker 3: that kind of beat and more like a four on

595
00:31:11,436 --> 00:31:14,436
Speaker 3: the floor beat. So when we were writing Hero Takes

596
00:31:14,436 --> 00:31:17,556
Speaker 3: a Fall, we were kind of playing drums on our thighs,

597
00:31:17,636 --> 00:31:20,676
Speaker 3: you know, like holding the beat that way and kind

598
00:31:20,676 --> 00:31:24,516
Speaker 3: of getting the rhythm. And so a lot of things

599
00:31:24,636 --> 00:31:28,836
Speaker 3: opened up from that first album and then Prince saw somehow.

600
00:31:28,876 --> 00:31:31,996
Speaker 3: Prince had this idea that I should come over and

601
00:31:32,036 --> 00:31:35,156
Speaker 3: get this cassette from him at Sunset Sound, the big

602
00:31:35,476 --> 00:31:39,196
Speaker 3: mother ship studio on Sunset, and he had a song

603
00:31:40,196 --> 00:31:43,476
Speaker 3: to share with us, and it was Manic Monday. So

604
00:31:43,596 --> 00:31:47,796
Speaker 3: during that recording of Different Light at Sunset Sound Factory,

605
00:31:48,596 --> 00:31:52,276
Speaker 3: I came back with the cassette from Prince and we

606
00:31:53,396 --> 00:31:54,116
Speaker 3: recorded that.

607
00:31:54,116 --> 00:31:58,276
Speaker 2: Song and he had offered me yeah, oh yeah yeah,

608
00:31:58,316 --> 00:32:00,796
Speaker 2: and I have the cassette upstairs. Wow, yeah, I can

609
00:32:00,836 --> 00:32:03,556
Speaker 2: show you if you want. Yeah yeah.

610
00:32:03,596 --> 00:32:06,036
Speaker 3: So we just kind of hovered around a cassette player

611
00:32:06,476 --> 00:32:10,116
Speaker 3: and I was immediately like, oh my god, this would

612
00:32:10,156 --> 00:32:13,756
Speaker 3: be great to sing. And so then we recorded it

613
00:32:13,836 --> 00:32:18,836
Speaker 3: and at Sunset Sound Factory and it came out really well,

614
00:32:19,276 --> 00:32:21,476
Speaker 3: and then it became the first single on that record

615
00:32:21,516 --> 00:32:24,356
Speaker 3: and it became a hit, our first like top forty

616
00:32:24,436 --> 00:32:24,996
Speaker 3: radio hit.

617
00:32:25,356 --> 00:32:26,476
Speaker 1: How was it having a hit?

618
00:32:27,476 --> 00:32:28,196
Speaker 2: It was nuts.

619
00:32:28,236 --> 00:32:32,196
Speaker 3: We were on tour Columbia had released it as the

620
00:32:32,236 --> 00:32:35,156
Speaker 3: first single off the Different Light record, and we were

621
00:32:35,196 --> 00:32:37,836
Speaker 3: just standing on a corner and somebody pulled up in

622
00:32:37,876 --> 00:32:42,076
Speaker 3: a convertible and something sounded familiar, but not familiar, because

623
00:32:42,076 --> 00:32:44,076
Speaker 3: if it was the Beatles song playing on the radio,

624
00:32:44,116 --> 00:32:46,996
Speaker 3: I would have been like, oh it took We all

625
00:32:47,036 --> 00:32:51,076
Speaker 3: had this weird delayed reaction of like, oh shit, that's

626
00:32:51,196 --> 00:32:54,436
Speaker 3: our song, that's Manic Monday. Like there was this weird,

627
00:32:54,596 --> 00:32:59,516
Speaker 3: like I don't know, delay in connecting the dots, and

628
00:32:59,556 --> 00:33:02,116
Speaker 3: then we were like off to the races at that

629
00:33:02,196 --> 00:33:04,436
Speaker 3: point that this song just started to go up the

630
00:33:04,516 --> 00:33:07,236
Speaker 3: charts and it got to number two, which was pretty

631
00:33:07,276 --> 00:33:09,356
Speaker 3: good because Prince was I think Kiss.

632
00:33:09,276 --> 00:33:11,716
Speaker 2: Was number one, and We and Manic Monday was number.

633
00:33:11,476 --> 00:33:13,356
Speaker 1: Two and Prince. It offered you other songs.

634
00:33:14,036 --> 00:33:17,396
Speaker 3: He there was another song listed on the cassette called

635
00:33:17,476 --> 00:33:22,756
Speaker 3: Jealous Girl. I bet you that demo's floating around. But

636
00:33:22,836 --> 00:33:26,716
Speaker 3: the weird thing is, I wanted to digitize that cassette

637
00:33:26,756 --> 00:33:30,076
Speaker 3: and I took it to a friend's studio and we

638
00:33:30,116 --> 00:33:33,996
Speaker 3: went through the whole cassette and Jealous Girl did not play.

639
00:33:34,556 --> 00:33:37,156
Speaker 3: So I don't know if it just like the ravages

640
00:33:37,196 --> 00:33:40,076
Speaker 3: of like a cassette sitting in a box for thirty years,

641
00:33:40,476 --> 00:33:42,676
Speaker 3: is to blame or not. I don't know. It was

642
00:33:42,716 --> 00:33:45,156
Speaker 3: just never but I think it's probably in his archive.

643
00:33:45,276 --> 00:33:48,276
Speaker 3: I think we could google it and we could maybe

644
00:33:48,276 --> 00:33:49,196
Speaker 3: find it pull it up.

645
00:33:49,276 --> 00:33:52,156
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to pause for a quick break and

646
00:33:52,196 --> 00:33:55,876
Speaker 1: then come back with more from my interview with Susannah Hoffs.

647
00:33:59,556 --> 00:34:03,356
Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of our conversation with Susannah Hoffs.

648
00:34:03,796 --> 00:34:05,836
Speaker 1: Did you know that Walk Like Egyptian was going to

649
00:34:05,876 --> 00:34:08,316
Speaker 1: be the hit that it was? No, that is the

650
00:34:08,316 --> 00:34:10,236
Speaker 1: most bizarre, you know, it's like it's a great song,

651
00:34:10,276 --> 00:34:13,236
Speaker 1: but it's it's so out of left field. I know.

652
00:34:13,996 --> 00:34:16,556
Speaker 3: I think that's the brilliance of it. So I was

653
00:34:16,596 --> 00:34:22,156
Speaker 3: at David's office, David Kahn up at Columbia, and he

654
00:34:22,276 --> 00:34:25,476
Speaker 3: wanted to play me some songs there, just share some

655
00:34:25,596 --> 00:34:27,996
Speaker 3: things that had crossed his desk, and one of them

656
00:34:28,276 --> 00:34:31,476
Speaker 3: was Marnie Dixon. I want to say, oh god, I'm

657
00:34:31,476 --> 00:34:33,156
Speaker 3: going to get it wrong. I'll try to find out

658
00:34:33,476 --> 00:34:35,556
Speaker 3: there was a woman who had covered it, and also

659
00:34:35,796 --> 00:34:38,996
Speaker 3: Charlie Sexton had covered it, of all things. So I

660
00:34:39,076 --> 00:34:41,756
Speaker 3: recently was able to talk to him about that, but.

661
00:34:41,996 --> 00:34:43,196
Speaker 1: He released it.

662
00:34:43,596 --> 00:34:44,276
Speaker 2: I think so.

663
00:34:44,516 --> 00:34:47,756
Speaker 3: I think if you google you'll find other versions. These

664
00:34:47,756 --> 00:34:51,236
Speaker 3: other versions are probably somewhere. But David played it for me,

665
00:34:51,276 --> 00:34:54,316
Speaker 3: and I just thought it had this really again nineteen

666
00:34:54,396 --> 00:34:59,276
Speaker 3: sixties bossa Nova like there was something about it. The

667
00:34:59,356 --> 00:35:03,436
Speaker 3: rhythm of it was so interesting, the shaker being so predominant,

668
00:35:03,596 --> 00:35:06,596
Speaker 3: and the kind of I don't know, it sounded like

669
00:35:07,476 --> 00:35:11,556
Speaker 3: something from a movie or something like or from another time.

670
00:35:12,116 --> 00:35:15,236
Speaker 3: So we just we all were kind of curious to

671
00:35:15,276 --> 00:35:17,556
Speaker 3: try it out because sometimes when you're in the studio,

672
00:35:18,276 --> 00:35:21,036
Speaker 3: you record more than you think you record more than

673
00:35:21,156 --> 00:35:22,876
Speaker 3: you think you're gonna need, and then you pick the

674
00:35:22,916 --> 00:35:27,196
Speaker 3: best or the most catchy or connect with people the most,

675
00:35:27,236 --> 00:35:30,476
Speaker 3: so you just never know. There's a lot of lore

676
00:35:30,796 --> 00:35:33,716
Speaker 3: within the band because you know, different people in the

677
00:35:33,716 --> 00:35:37,556
Speaker 3: band were singing different parts, you know, and not everybody

678
00:35:37,556 --> 00:35:39,796
Speaker 3: got to sing a part, you know. W I know

679
00:35:39,876 --> 00:35:42,836
Speaker 3: always felt kind of left out, and I totally I

680
00:35:42,876 --> 00:35:47,316
Speaker 3: can really empathize with that. But we had no idea

681
00:35:47,436 --> 00:35:49,356
Speaker 3: that that song would catch on the way it did.

682
00:35:49,476 --> 00:35:51,996
Speaker 3: It was the third single, If She Knew What She Wants,

683
00:35:51,996 --> 00:35:54,436
Speaker 3: a Jewells share song that I sang was a second single,

684
00:35:54,636 --> 00:35:58,356
Speaker 3: and it did moderately well, and it was very bangles.

685
00:35:58,396 --> 00:36:00,876
Speaker 3: It was lush harmon these all the way through. It

686
00:36:00,916 --> 00:36:01,956
Speaker 3: was a beautiful song.

687
00:36:03,796 --> 00:36:04,596
Speaker 2: Oh thank you.

688
00:36:04,796 --> 00:36:07,356
Speaker 3: That was kind of let it go was like a

689
00:36:07,476 --> 00:36:10,476
Speaker 3: chance for all of us to feel in because we

690
00:36:10,556 --> 00:36:12,836
Speaker 3: wrote it together as a foursome and we sang it

691
00:36:12,876 --> 00:36:15,516
Speaker 3: together as a foursome. So we kind of needed that

692
00:36:16,116 --> 00:36:18,276
Speaker 3: as it was one of the last songs we recorded

693
00:36:18,276 --> 00:36:20,396
Speaker 3: on that album. Yeah, it was kind of like the

694
00:36:20,436 --> 00:36:24,636
Speaker 3: band needed that. Yeah, it was like a really bonding yeah,

695
00:36:24,676 --> 00:36:27,156
Speaker 3: you know what. I loved that one, and we all

696
00:36:27,196 --> 00:36:29,076
Speaker 3: wrote it I think, yeah, together.

697
00:36:29,596 --> 00:36:32,316
Speaker 1: I guess I want to jump to the next record,

698
00:36:32,836 --> 00:36:35,516
Speaker 1: because you know, you and Vicky kind of have like

699
00:36:35,516 --> 00:36:39,116
Speaker 1: a songwriting thing. But then you discover Tom.

700
00:36:39,076 --> 00:36:40,636
Speaker 2: Kelly, Yeah, Philly stigin very good.

701
00:36:40,756 --> 00:36:42,916
Speaker 1: Yeah. How did that kind of song How did that

702
00:36:42,996 --> 00:36:45,076
Speaker 1: kind of songwriting trio happen?

703
00:36:45,276 --> 00:36:46,596
Speaker 2: Oh, that's great question.

704
00:36:46,876 --> 00:36:49,756
Speaker 3: I think that by the time Different Light had run

705
00:36:49,836 --> 00:36:52,956
Speaker 3: its cycle out in the world and all the touring

706
00:36:53,196 --> 00:36:56,836
Speaker 3: and you know, us opening for Queen at slain Castle,

707
00:36:56,956 --> 00:36:59,876
Speaker 3: and just like everything had shot up, you know, with

708
00:36:59,956 --> 00:37:03,596
Speaker 3: the success of that record, and our our lives were

709
00:37:03,716 --> 00:37:04,956
Speaker 3: not our own lives.

710
00:37:04,636 --> 00:37:05,476
Speaker 2: That we were living.

711
00:37:05,676 --> 00:37:09,676
Speaker 3: Like what happens when that when that occurs in the

712
00:37:09,756 --> 00:37:14,276
Speaker 3: journey of a band, you know. So we after living

713
00:37:15,036 --> 00:37:18,236
Speaker 3: like so closely for so long and being on tour

714
00:37:18,836 --> 00:37:22,756
Speaker 3: and having no autonomy everyone in the band, but we decided, Okay,

715
00:37:22,756 --> 00:37:25,556
Speaker 3: that's the end of that tour cycle, let's start writing

716
00:37:25,596 --> 00:37:30,116
Speaker 3: for the next record, the next record, And no one

717
00:37:30,156 --> 00:37:33,196
Speaker 3: wanted to write with each other, like everyone wanted to

718
00:37:33,236 --> 00:37:37,316
Speaker 3: be totally away from the other members, so like just

719
00:37:37,396 --> 00:37:42,956
Speaker 3: needed autonomy. So somehow I met Billy, and Billy introduced

720
00:37:42,996 --> 00:37:45,596
Speaker 3: me to Tom and we just hit it off. As

721
00:37:45,636 --> 00:37:49,356
Speaker 3: a songwriting team. Immediately I had heard some of the

722
00:37:49,356 --> 00:37:52,556
Speaker 3: stuff they had done, and I thought they were great,

723
00:37:53,036 --> 00:37:57,396
Speaker 3: and they were so fun, and their work partnership was strong,

724
00:37:57,596 --> 00:38:01,236
Speaker 3: and they really knew each one brought a very specific

725
00:38:01,276 --> 00:38:04,796
Speaker 3: thing to the table. Billy was very much the lyricist,

726
00:38:05,956 --> 00:38:09,596
Speaker 3: but you know, had melodic ideas as well, and arrangement ideas.

727
00:38:09,796 --> 00:38:14,316
Speaker 3: And Tom was just like this incredible melody maker machine.

728
00:38:14,356 --> 00:38:16,836
Speaker 3: You know, he was just he just would sit at

729
00:38:16,836 --> 00:38:19,036
Speaker 3: the piano or go to the guitar, or go back

730
00:38:19,076 --> 00:38:22,756
Speaker 3: to the piano, and just to be in the room

731
00:38:22,956 --> 00:38:26,276
Speaker 3: during all this creation with them was extraordinary, and I

732
00:38:26,356 --> 00:38:29,196
Speaker 3: was so impressed with songs that they had written, so

733
00:38:29,516 --> 00:38:31,876
Speaker 3: I just started to hang out with them and do

734
00:38:31,956 --> 00:38:36,956
Speaker 3: songwriting sessions with them. An eternal Flame was me sharing

735
00:38:37,556 --> 00:38:39,716
Speaker 3: I'd just been back from a Bengals tour and we

736
00:38:39,796 --> 00:38:42,876
Speaker 3: did Graceland like all bands have to do. But the

737
00:38:42,956 --> 00:38:46,596
Speaker 3: day we were there, Elvis's eternal Flame in the Garden

738
00:38:46,636 --> 00:38:51,076
Speaker 3: of Memories was basically a plexiglass box with a little

739
00:38:51,076 --> 00:38:53,476
Speaker 3: flame in it, but it was out because the rain

740
00:38:53,556 --> 00:38:56,316
Speaker 3: had filled up the box with rain water and extinguished

741
00:38:56,356 --> 00:39:00,836
Speaker 3: the flame. It was out that day, but we were

742
00:39:00,876 --> 00:39:04,036
Speaker 3: recreating the scene in spinal Tap where there's singing heartbreak

743
00:39:04,076 --> 00:39:06,556
Speaker 3: Hotel and raga harmonies or whatever.

744
00:39:06,596 --> 00:39:09,276
Speaker 2: They were tempting the harmonies and they were face Bill.

745
00:39:09,916 --> 00:39:12,036
Speaker 3: So we were doing that and I came back to

746
00:39:12,196 --> 00:39:14,756
Speaker 3: La I had my writing session with Billy, because Billy

747
00:39:14,796 --> 00:39:18,716
Speaker 3: always wanted to write lyrics first, which again was unusual

748
00:39:18,716 --> 00:39:21,036
Speaker 3: to me because I always thought melody first, and we'll

749
00:39:21,116 --> 00:39:24,276
Speaker 3: just jabber something and the lyric will find itself later.

750
00:39:24,716 --> 00:39:27,796
Speaker 3: But with Billy, he really had a really strong practice

751
00:39:27,836 --> 00:39:31,516
Speaker 3: in doing bringing a lyric to Tom. So we just

752
00:39:31,556 --> 00:39:34,396
Speaker 3: sat down. I was just telling him the story about

753
00:39:34,396 --> 00:39:36,876
Speaker 3: the Eternal Flame at Graceland it was out, and he went,

754
00:39:36,956 --> 00:39:39,476
Speaker 3: eternal Flame. That's a great name for a song. And

755
00:39:39,516 --> 00:39:41,956
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, you're right, and we just sat down,

756
00:39:42,076 --> 00:39:44,116
Speaker 3: did the lyrics, and we drove over to Tom's and

757
00:39:44,156 --> 00:39:46,916
Speaker 3: we just started working on the music. But when that

758
00:39:47,076 --> 00:39:49,636
Speaker 3: turn came in on the two. It's a weird structure

759
00:39:49,676 --> 00:39:52,956
Speaker 3: that song because it doesn't have a proper chorus. It's

760
00:39:52,996 --> 00:39:55,636
Speaker 3: just the tagline is this burning and eternal flame at

761
00:39:55,636 --> 00:39:59,876
Speaker 3: the ends of the verses. So what really was like

762
00:39:59,916 --> 00:40:03,156
Speaker 3: the moment of like, uh, you know, the sun breaking

763
00:40:03,196 --> 00:40:06,716
Speaker 3: through the clouds. Was that actually it fit with those

764
00:40:06,836 --> 00:40:11,156
Speaker 3: lyrics sunshines through the rain, the bridge that repeats, and

765
00:40:11,196 --> 00:40:13,516
Speaker 3: there's a really cool place for a guitar solo in

766
00:40:13,556 --> 00:40:16,476
Speaker 3: the middle of it. So it's like verse verse bridge

767
00:40:17,076 --> 00:40:21,676
Speaker 3: solo bridge verse out, and those bridges were just like

768
00:40:22,116 --> 00:40:25,716
Speaker 3: I knew. When that happened, I was like, shit, man,

769
00:40:25,796 --> 00:40:28,396
Speaker 3: this is good, you know, this is oh wow, what

770
00:40:28,636 --> 00:40:31,476
Speaker 3: is this? This is great and felt so good to

771
00:40:31,516 --> 00:40:31,996
Speaker 3: sing that.

772
00:40:32,476 --> 00:40:38,076
Speaker 1: It is a strange song structure, it's not traditional song structural.

773
00:40:38,076 --> 00:40:40,996
Speaker 3: But those bridges were just so beautiful and so fun

774
00:40:41,036 --> 00:40:43,476
Speaker 3: to sing. And the other part was like kind of

775
00:40:43,476 --> 00:40:46,956
Speaker 3: a here, there and everywhere, kind of you know, be lesque,

776
00:40:47,156 --> 00:40:48,316
Speaker 3: very very blesque.

777
00:40:48,356 --> 00:40:51,356
Speaker 2: The verses, yeah, yeah, pretty cool.

778
00:40:51,476 --> 00:40:54,836
Speaker 3: But it was a real afterthought putting it out, and

779
00:40:54,876 --> 00:40:56,436
Speaker 3: it was it hardly made the record.

780
00:40:56,436 --> 00:40:56,836
Speaker 2: It didn't.

781
00:40:56,876 --> 00:40:59,756
Speaker 3: It wasn't voted. We had a thing where we had

782
00:40:59,796 --> 00:41:02,156
Speaker 3: a band meeting and everybody had gone off.

783
00:41:02,196 --> 00:41:03,996
Speaker 2: Everyone needed to go off and write.

784
00:41:03,756 --> 00:41:06,356
Speaker 3: With other people. Everyone was sick of each other. When

785
00:41:06,356 --> 00:41:09,476
Speaker 3: we got back together, everyone you know, kind of showed

786
00:41:09,516 --> 00:41:11,716
Speaker 3: their wares. This is what I wrote, was so and

787
00:41:11,756 --> 00:41:15,716
Speaker 3: so and so and so, and everybody voted and Eternal

788
00:41:15,716 --> 00:41:19,636
Speaker 3: Flame didn't make it, and I was like, wait, it

789
00:41:19,716 --> 00:41:20,996
Speaker 3: should be in there.

790
00:41:21,636 --> 00:41:23,796
Speaker 2: I was like really stunned.

791
00:41:23,916 --> 00:41:27,756
Speaker 3: Actually, I thought it was like we could use like

792
00:41:27,796 --> 00:41:31,916
Speaker 3: a good old fashioned ballad like that, you know, But

793
00:41:32,036 --> 00:41:36,556
Speaker 3: it didn't and we It wasn't until halfway to three

794
00:41:36,636 --> 00:41:40,396
Speaker 3: quarters of the way through recording that album that David

795
00:41:40,436 --> 00:41:42,756
Speaker 3: Segresson said, you know what, I think it's a mistake

796
00:41:42,836 --> 00:41:45,476
Speaker 3: not to put Eternal Flame on here. Let's let's go

797
00:41:45,556 --> 00:41:48,716
Speaker 3: over to my friend who's a keyboard player. Phil Chanel

798
00:41:49,356 --> 00:41:52,796
Speaker 3: was his name, and let's mess around with a Patsy

799
00:41:52,876 --> 00:41:57,076
Speaker 3: Cline esque arrangement because I was obsessed with Patsy Cline.

800
00:41:57,116 --> 00:41:59,876
Speaker 3: I had discovered her around that time and I think

801
00:41:59,876 --> 00:42:02,356
Speaker 3: the movie had come out, and yeah, I was just

802
00:42:02,396 --> 00:42:04,956
Speaker 3: blown away by her singing and gorgeous voice, so so

803
00:42:05,116 --> 00:42:08,716
Speaker 3: amazing and her story. Yeah, so we went and worked

804
00:42:08,716 --> 00:42:10,876
Speaker 3: with Phil and it ended up.

805
00:42:10,796 --> 00:42:11,436
Speaker 2: On the record.

806
00:42:11,676 --> 00:42:13,236
Speaker 1: Did you guys have to regroup and read?

807
00:42:13,436 --> 00:42:15,636
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was a weird phase at that

808
00:42:15,796 --> 00:42:21,516
Speaker 3: point where everybody was very much aware of like I

809
00:42:21,596 --> 00:42:25,756
Speaker 3: want to make sure my songs are that everything was

810
00:42:25,836 --> 00:42:31,516
Speaker 3: like very parsed out. Equally, it was less bandish at

811
00:42:31,516 --> 00:42:35,436
Speaker 3: that point and davidt you know, was a change in producer.

812
00:42:36,236 --> 00:42:39,116
Speaker 3: Having had David Kahn on the first two records, Davitt

813
00:42:39,116 --> 00:42:41,796
Speaker 3: could see what was going on even in our behind

814
00:42:41,836 --> 00:42:46,316
Speaker 3: the music. His interview, He's like, they were an odd

815
00:42:46,396 --> 00:42:48,316
Speaker 3: kind of band we were.

816
00:42:48,196 --> 00:42:49,156
Speaker 2: At that point.

817
00:42:49,876 --> 00:42:53,116
Speaker 3: It just when you have four singer songwriters in a band,

818
00:42:53,996 --> 00:42:56,396
Speaker 3: you have to figure out how to make that work.

819
00:42:56,556 --> 00:42:59,276
Speaker 3: And it is a lot of personalities. And that's the

820
00:42:59,356 --> 00:43:02,356
Speaker 3: great thing about bands, you know. Some of the things

821
00:43:02,396 --> 00:43:06,476
Speaker 3: that make bands great are their conflicts. Are are the

822
00:43:06,556 --> 00:43:11,196
Speaker 3: ways that they with a disconnects are how disparate points

823
00:43:11,196 --> 00:43:14,236
Speaker 3: of view can come together and make something bigger than

824
00:43:14,756 --> 00:43:18,116
Speaker 3: you know this, what's that expression? That some of its

825
00:43:18,156 --> 00:43:21,916
Speaker 3: parts that yeah, yeah so. But Eternal Flame was a

826
00:43:21,956 --> 00:43:25,596
Speaker 3: definite afterthought and it was It was the third single

827
00:43:25,636 --> 00:43:29,036
Speaker 3: released on that Alpha album. It was not the first single.

828
00:43:29,156 --> 00:43:29,876
Speaker 2: In Your Room.

829
00:43:29,876 --> 00:43:31,676
Speaker 1: Was which which was.

830
00:43:31,996 --> 00:43:34,476
Speaker 3: That's another Billy and Tom song And that was like

831
00:43:34,596 --> 00:43:38,316
Speaker 3: me going full George michael on that I wanted that

832
00:43:38,476 --> 00:43:39,276
Speaker 3: to sound like?

833
00:43:39,956 --> 00:43:41,556
Speaker 2: Was it faith? Was that?

834
00:43:41,196 --> 00:43:46,396
Speaker 3: The that the song that very dry, very dry, not

835
00:43:46,636 --> 00:43:50,236
Speaker 3: no reverb like the big eighties reverb. It was so

836
00:43:50,396 --> 00:43:54,196
Speaker 3: starkly dry and so like crispin in your face. That

837
00:43:54,356 --> 00:43:57,516
Speaker 3: was like I kept obsessively telling David that I wanted

838
00:43:57,516 --> 00:44:00,196
Speaker 3: it to have that sound. Yeah, very dry.

839
00:44:00,516 --> 00:44:02,596
Speaker 1: And you also did with with with Tom and Billy.

840
00:44:02,756 --> 00:44:04,836
Speaker 1: Did Belinda Carlisle song?

841
00:44:05,116 --> 00:44:07,156
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what was it?

842
00:44:07,556 --> 00:44:08,996
Speaker 1: I need a dis I need a disguy.

843
00:44:09,316 --> 00:44:12,396
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh I sang on that record, Yeah I did.

844
00:44:12,476 --> 00:44:14,876
Speaker 2: I did. I think, I'm I think I did some back.

845
00:44:15,596 --> 00:44:16,716
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

846
00:44:16,796 --> 00:44:20,116
Speaker 1: Oh Gods and the Bengal Yeah.

847
00:44:19,756 --> 00:44:21,356
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was always well.

848
00:44:21,396 --> 00:44:23,596
Speaker 3: I I love the Go Gos, you know, like, I

849
00:44:23,636 --> 00:44:28,356
Speaker 3: think they inspired me. I didn't feel competitive with them.

850
00:44:28,796 --> 00:44:30,556
Speaker 3: In fact, I just wanted to hang out with them,

851
00:44:30,596 --> 00:44:33,276
Speaker 3: and I had seen them, I think even before I

852
00:44:33,356 --> 00:44:35,836
Speaker 3: met Vicky and Debbie through the ad in the paper

853
00:44:35,876 --> 00:44:40,116
Speaker 3: that I had put out advertising for other like minded musicians,

854
00:44:40,596 --> 00:44:44,476
Speaker 3: especially girls. The Go Gos really honestly inspired me to

855
00:44:44,556 --> 00:44:46,196
Speaker 3: want to be in a band with other girls.

856
00:44:46,716 --> 00:44:48,236
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, wow Fully.

857
00:44:48,676 --> 00:44:51,956
Speaker 3: Their songs I think were very sixties inspired, so I

858
00:44:51,956 --> 00:44:57,036
Speaker 3: felt a kinship there and like a shared sensibility. Belinda

859
00:44:57,156 --> 00:45:00,356
Speaker 3: was came from the punk scene very much. I mean

860
00:45:00,396 --> 00:45:02,116
Speaker 3: she used to dressing garbage bags.

861
00:45:02,156 --> 00:45:03,076
Speaker 2: They were very off.

862
00:45:03,356 --> 00:45:06,596
Speaker 3: They were avant garde to me, and that was what

863
00:45:06,676 --> 00:45:10,516
Speaker 3: I was interested in. They were people who found each

864
00:45:10,556 --> 00:45:13,636
Speaker 3: other and figured out how to collaborate.

865
00:45:13,876 --> 00:45:15,996
Speaker 1: I guess a girl group not being a pop act

866
00:45:16,156 --> 00:45:16,876
Speaker 1: at that time.

867
00:45:16,876 --> 00:45:18,716
Speaker 2: A girl group compared to a girl band.

868
00:45:18,796 --> 00:45:21,556
Speaker 1: A girl band, right, You guys run through the eighties

869
00:45:21,636 --> 00:45:25,716
Speaker 1: is like incredible? Was there the thought that parting ways

870
00:45:26,076 --> 00:45:29,316
Speaker 1: was a mistake. I can't imagine being at like the

871
00:45:29,316 --> 00:45:32,916
Speaker 1: peak of you guys's powers as a foursome. Yeah, just

872
00:45:33,156 --> 00:45:35,396
Speaker 1: like oh man, maybe yeah.

873
00:45:35,236 --> 00:45:36,156
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know.

874
00:45:36,236 --> 00:45:40,076
Speaker 3: I think that when you when you have very little

875
00:45:40,076 --> 00:45:45,116
Speaker 3: autonomy because your career is so pervading thing that you

876
00:45:45,236 --> 00:45:49,396
Speaker 3: have to, you know, show up for, you feel a

877
00:45:49,436 --> 00:45:53,636
Speaker 3: little bit claustrophobic after a while, and you start to

878
00:45:53,756 --> 00:45:56,276
Speaker 3: kind of wonder what life would be like if you

879
00:45:56,356 --> 00:46:00,996
Speaker 3: weren't bound by you know what three other people are

880
00:46:01,156 --> 00:46:04,356
Speaker 3: and a management team are kind of pressing you to do.

881
00:46:05,076 --> 00:46:08,836
Speaker 3: And I think that by the time we played sn

882
00:46:08,956 --> 00:46:14,276
Speaker 3: L in nineteen end of nineteen eighty eight, that was

883
00:46:14,316 --> 00:46:19,316
Speaker 3: a very stressful situation. There was a lot of frustration

884
00:46:19,756 --> 00:46:23,796
Speaker 3: in some members of the band about, you know, what

885
00:46:23,956 --> 00:46:27,396
Speaker 3: the perception of the band was. There was some feeling

886
00:46:27,516 --> 00:46:30,916
Speaker 3: that people were deeming me a lead singer in the band,

887
00:46:30,996 --> 00:46:35,436
Speaker 3: not just wanted to. Everyone's a singer, so I think that.

888
00:46:35,556 --> 00:46:39,036
Speaker 3: And I just think living, you know, on mass and

889
00:46:39,076 --> 00:46:42,796
Speaker 3: on tour for so long, and also having managers you know,

890
00:46:42,876 --> 00:46:45,716
Speaker 3: wanting you to do that because they benefit from it.

891
00:46:46,076 --> 00:46:48,636
Speaker 3: I mean, it's the oldest story in show business that

892
00:46:49,836 --> 00:46:55,756
Speaker 3: artists get to a breaking point at some point along

893
00:46:55,836 --> 00:46:58,516
Speaker 3: the journey and they're just like, I want to go home,

894
00:46:58,836 --> 00:47:02,276
Speaker 3: and I want to meet someone that I can have

895
00:47:02,396 --> 00:47:03,476
Speaker 3: in my life.

896
00:47:03,156 --> 00:47:05,356
Speaker 2: And not be on the road and lonely.

897
00:47:05,516 --> 00:47:09,036
Speaker 3: And as we were all looking at thirty approaching third,

898
00:47:10,036 --> 00:47:11,796
Speaker 3: it just felt like we needed a break.

899
00:47:11,956 --> 00:47:12,876
Speaker 2: And then we took one.

900
00:47:13,156 --> 00:47:16,156
Speaker 3: And then we did regroup multiple times and did did

901
00:47:16,876 --> 00:47:20,276
Speaker 3: But then it has a different vibe to it. Once

902
00:47:20,316 --> 00:47:22,996
Speaker 3: you decide to take a break, it's it's not it's

903
00:47:23,036 --> 00:47:27,876
Speaker 3: not ever quite the same as that that initial existence

904
00:47:27,916 --> 00:47:28,436
Speaker 3: you're living.

905
00:47:28,556 --> 00:47:30,796
Speaker 1: It's kind of familiar to most people who are like,

906
00:47:31,076 --> 00:47:33,676
Speaker 1: ever take a break from a relationship or something. You know,

907
00:47:33,756 --> 00:47:35,956
Speaker 1: then you come back and you're like, yeah, maybe it

908
00:47:35,996 --> 00:47:37,956
Speaker 1: works out, but it's like, it's not, it's never.

909
00:47:38,036 --> 00:47:42,636
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't have that first magical, you know, excitement

910
00:47:42,676 --> 00:47:47,676
Speaker 3: to it. Perhaps yeah, and we did It's interestingly in

911
00:47:47,796 --> 00:47:51,716
Speaker 3: my perspective to how when the times that we kind

912
00:47:51,756 --> 00:47:55,876
Speaker 3: of came back and made records and with different record

913
00:47:55,916 --> 00:47:59,796
Speaker 3: labels or did them ourselves. Most people that I talked

914
00:47:59,796 --> 00:48:03,036
Speaker 3: to didn't have any idea that we were still a band.

915
00:48:03,916 --> 00:48:06,596
Speaker 3: It was like the more we did, the less people

916
00:48:06,636 --> 00:48:07,396
Speaker 3: were like aware.

917
00:48:07,996 --> 00:48:09,156
Speaker 2: I don't know why that was.

918
00:48:09,836 --> 00:48:12,276
Speaker 1: But it's so much I guess was changing too about

919
00:48:12,436 --> 00:48:13,436
Speaker 1: the industry.

920
00:48:13,596 --> 00:48:17,436
Speaker 3: And I mean, Nirvana happened. Like what do you do

921
00:48:17,676 --> 00:48:23,316
Speaker 3: when your whole mind is blown by a band like

922
00:48:23,396 --> 00:48:28,036
Speaker 3: Nirvana and you're like, holy shit, this is genius, like

923
00:48:28,636 --> 00:48:30,956
Speaker 3: brilliant music and you're like.

924
00:48:31,156 --> 00:48:33,076
Speaker 2: Oh, oh my god.

925
00:48:33,916 --> 00:48:36,556
Speaker 3: You know, but you also have at that same exact time,

926
00:48:36,636 --> 00:48:39,276
Speaker 3: you know, Janet Jackson, you know, coming out with all

927
00:48:39,276 --> 00:48:44,236
Speaker 3: this incredible like the nineties. Yeah, you know, the nineties happened. Yeah,

928
00:48:44,556 --> 00:48:46,476
Speaker 3: time March is on and it's like.

929
00:48:46,476 --> 00:48:47,476
Speaker 2: How do you wear?

930
00:48:48,276 --> 00:48:48,476
Speaker 1: Yeah?

931
00:48:48,516 --> 00:48:52,796
Speaker 3: It was great, but you also kind of just the

932
00:48:52,876 --> 00:48:55,476
Speaker 3: eighties were like this interesting bubble.

933
00:48:56,036 --> 00:48:59,956
Speaker 2: It was very iconoclastic time for music. It was so

934
00:49:00,476 --> 00:49:01,756
Speaker 2: many different things.

935
00:49:01,836 --> 00:49:05,356
Speaker 1: It's strange how that the twentieth century you really can

936
00:49:05,516 --> 00:49:09,276
Speaker 1: kind of divide things up neatly by more roughly to

937
00:49:09,276 --> 00:49:12,236
Speaker 1: the actual decades, you know, like sometimes it's like eighty

938
00:49:12,276 --> 00:49:13,996
Speaker 1: one the eighties star rather than eight or what you know,

939
00:49:13,996 --> 00:49:14,276
Speaker 1: But you.

940
00:49:14,556 --> 00:49:17,516
Speaker 2: Like, the nineties was so different, don't you think?

941
00:49:17,796 --> 00:49:20,316
Speaker 1: So different? And I don't know that I feel the

942
00:49:20,356 --> 00:49:23,996
Speaker 1: difference from decade to decade anymore, Like you know, I don't.

943
00:49:23,836 --> 00:49:27,436
Speaker 3: Know, sixties to seventies to eighties to nineties each one,

944
00:49:28,236 --> 00:49:35,876
Speaker 3: and really fifties through nineties if you think about it,

945
00:49:35,876 --> 00:49:39,516
Speaker 3: it's from that whole chunk of a century. Ye in

946
00:49:39,556 --> 00:49:43,556
Speaker 3: a way, right, I mean, it was really notable that

947
00:49:43,716 --> 00:49:48,076
Speaker 3: what was going on, like the styles, the sounds, the vibes,

948
00:49:48,116 --> 00:49:48,636
Speaker 3: all of it.

949
00:49:49,396 --> 00:49:52,196
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for this letting us into your.

950
00:49:52,316 --> 00:49:56,196
Speaker 2: This was amazing. This was very in depth. I feel

951
00:49:56,236 --> 00:49:56,916
Speaker 2: great more.

952
00:49:57,396 --> 00:49:59,556
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm leaving things on the table.

953
00:49:59,636 --> 00:50:01,996
Speaker 2: No, no, we're good. We're good.

954
00:50:04,876 --> 00:50:07,356
Speaker 1: Thank you Susannahas for taking us through her career with

955
00:50:07,396 --> 00:50:10,316
Speaker 1: the Bangles and talking about the creation of her new novel,

956
00:50:10,436 --> 00:50:13,276
Speaker 1: This Bird Has Flown. You can hear all of our

957
00:50:13,316 --> 00:50:16,876
Speaker 1: favorite songs featuring Susanna on a playlist at Broken record

958
00:50:16,956 --> 00:50:20,876
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube

959
00:50:20,916 --> 00:50:23,916
Speaker 1: dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, where you can find

960
00:50:24,076 --> 00:50:26,876
Speaker 1: all of our new episodes. You can follow us on

961
00:50:26,916 --> 00:50:30,836
Speaker 1: Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced with help

962
00:50:30,836 --> 00:50:33,836
Speaker 1: from Lea Rose and Eric Sandler. Our show is engineered

963
00:50:33,916 --> 00:50:38,276
Speaker 1: by Echo Mountain. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.

964
00:50:38,356 --> 00:50:40,636
Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider

965
00:50:40,676 --> 00:50:44,916
Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

966
00:50:44,996 --> 00:50:47,756
Speaker 1: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four

967
00:50:47,836 --> 00:50:50,756
Speaker 1: to ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on

968
00:50:50,876 --> 00:50:54,596
Speaker 1: Apple podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please

969
00:50:54,636 --> 00:50:57,796
Speaker 1: remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app.

970
00:50:58,236 --> 00:51:01,116
Speaker 1: Theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richman.