WEBVTT - Plant Power with Maggie Baird 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:02.960 I had a woman one time on a panel I 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.080 was on say something to me in a quite snide manner, 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.639 like we can't eat our way out of climate change, 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.920 and I thought, well, you know it's not. You know, 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.680 we kind of can. It's not the only solution. Plant 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:18.200 By's diet is not the only solution to climate change, 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.720 but there's no solution that doesn't include that. 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.120 Oh fucked. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.640 Welcome to I'm Fucking the Future. I'm Chris Turney, a 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.520 climate scientist based in Sydney, Australia. I have a bit 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.599 of a reputation for being an optimist, but in this 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.199 day and age, with all the bad news, even I 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.599 can't help but think we're fucked. But that thinking is 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.839 not going to get us out of this mess. There 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.280 are people out there who have got some really big 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.920 ideas for how to turn things around. They inspire me 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.440 to keep going, and over this podcast series, I want 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:03.560 them to inspire you too, or at least make you 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.200 feel a little less terrible about our future. So in 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.800 each episode, we're going to hear the story of a scientist, 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:14.759 an entrepreneur, an activist, or someone else who is fighting 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:18.480 the climate crisis in a surprising but positive way, We're 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.600 going to learn how they got started, how they're making 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.959 a difference, and perhaps most importantly, how we can make 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.840 a difference too. I still believe that together we can 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.480 fix this all mighty mess. So let's get started. 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.280 We're fucking future. 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:44.000 I feel very grateful to be a woman right now. 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:50.760 I feel very proud, and I want to thank my 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:56.520 mom for being truly the best mother that I could 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.760 ever ask for, and thinking never for herself and only 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:02.400 for others. 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:05.040 Every day I want to be more like you. 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:11.520 Oh my god. That's a clip of Billie Eilish speaking 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.400 at the twenty twenty three Variety Power of Women event. 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:17.600 She's being honored for a song from the Barbie soundtrack, 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.600 and the woman she's thanking her mom, is our guest today. 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.840 Maggie bed is not only the mother of two of 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:28.000 the most successful musicians on the planet, she's also an 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:33.040 accomplished actor and writer and a longtime climate activist. Even 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:34.240 Billy is impressed by that. 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.600 I'm so proud of her every day and I want 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.200 to dedicate everything in this to my mom and everything 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.799 you do for the world. I'll buy you anything you want. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.240 Maggie is the founder of Support and feed and nonprofit 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.760 that aims to combat the climate crisis and increased food 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.800 security by advocating for a plant based diet. And the 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.440 reason I wanted to bring Maggie on in this first 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:03.160 episode is because her radical idea for changing the world 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.359 is actually relatively simple. Maggie says that we can make 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:11.680 a real difference tackling the climate crisis by just making 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:15.440 small changes to our diet. The rest of the world 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.360 has only recently come round to the idea that meat 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.040 agriculture might not be the best thing for the environment. 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.560 But that's a conclusion Maggie came to early in life. 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.280 We didn't have much a lot of money. My dad 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.320 was a school teacher. My mom worked in various jobs, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:33.080 so we didn't have much money, and we lived in 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:38.560 this beautiful place in western Colorado. But I was outdoors 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.440 all the time, and I started even as a child, 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.720 I did not want to eat meat. I just immediately 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.280 saw that it was an animal, and I did not 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.320 seem like an edible substance to me. So it was 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.440 originally animals that brought me into that world. But I 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:58.360 have very clear memories of I read a book like 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.600 there's two different things, but I written because two books 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.600 that Diet for a Small Planet Diet for a New 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:07.600 America Francis Morler pay books when I was a teenager, 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:11.920 and they talked about the effect on the environment of 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:13.000 animal agriculture. 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:17.360 These books from the seventies and eighties are absolute classics. 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.520 They've influenced a lot of people to switch to plant 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.600 based food, which brings us to a segment we like 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.919 to call what the fuck are you talking about? What 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:35.360 the fuck are you talking about? What Maggie just mentioned. 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:40.000 Animal agriculture is simply the farming of animals for food production. 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.560 As you may already know, there are big climate consequences 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.920 for it. Sure, you've probably heard about the me fame 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:52.240 produced by those belching, farting cows, but it actually goes 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.600 a lot deeper than that. It all starts from a 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.839 simple fact that there's a limited amount of space on Earth. 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.719 For Fortunately for those of us who enjoy lamb or 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.440 a ribbi, animal proteins require far more space to grow 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:11.320 than plant based proteins. It takes almost one hundred times 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.120 as much land to produce a gram of beef protein 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.120 as it does to produce a gram of tofu protein. 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.520 But that's not the only problem, because, of course, in 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:25.440 order to raise animals, you have to feed them. Roughly 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.960 a third of all farmland on Earth is used solely 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.800 to grow food to feed livestock, and in order to 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.880 clear land for livestock to graze on, you have to 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:40.000 cut down trees. Meat production is the biggest cause of 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:44.400 deforestation in the world's tropical forests to clear away for 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.680 Brazilian cattle. More than eight hundred million trees in the 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.080 Amazon have been cut down just in the last six years. 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:56.560 And trees, as we know, sub carbon out of the atmosphere. 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.960 When trees are cut down, two things happen. First, once 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:05.240 they're dead, they can't suck carbon out of the atmosphere anymore. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:10.720 That's bad. Second, these dead trees release a carbon they've 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:15.120 been storing all these years. That's really bad. All this 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:19.239 extra carbon in the atmosphere is causing climate zones to shift, 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.880 making it more difficult for the world's great farming regions 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:28.000 to remain productive. And finally, animals produce emissions of their own. 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.479 According to the United Nations, livestock are responsible for about 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:38.440 fifteen percent of greenhouse gas emissions globally. What this means 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:40.920 is that if we all reduce the amount of meat 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:43.320 that we eat, it could have a big impact on 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:43.960 the climate. 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.000 If every American eight no meter or cheese just one 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:49.440 day a week for a year is equivalent to not 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.760 driving ninety one billion miles or taking seven point six 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.320 million cars off of the road. 0:06:56.480 --> 0:07:00.560 So that's what the fuck we're talking about. What the 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:06.720 fuck are you talking about? All right? Back to Maggie. 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:09.920 As a teenager, she made the connection between what we 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:13.320 eat and its impact on the environment, and so she 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:14.720 became a vegetarian. 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.800 I think to most everyone I know, I was pretty 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.720 annoying because I was I've been a vegan for fifteen years, 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.160 but you know, vegetarian for since nineteen, like seventy six, right, 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.520 So I was talking about it all the time, and 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.200 I was, to be honest, a little bit of a 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.120 apologetic for it. You know. It was the era of 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.880 like don't mind me, I'll have a salad, don't mind, 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.120 you know, so it's kind of apologetic and like, you know, 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:45.160 not trying to make waves. But I was living that way, 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:49.160 and you know, I was carrying my own grocery bags 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.240 and my reusable water bottles, and then. 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:53.760 You know, ahead of a curve. 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.240 I grew up in the seventies. You know, everything was 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.960 turned off, the lights, you know, concern. 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.120 It's amazing. I mean, my dad was a forester and 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.720 we used to travel all over the UK, live in 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.640 really quite remote places. And I was born in the seventies. 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:12.000 We grew up in the eighties. But mom and dad, 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:13.800 because we were living in such remote places, we're in 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.720 the like a nineteen seventies time bubble. So we listen abusing. 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.440 We had this basis stainable livestile and there was just 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.600 that moment in time where there was this realization that 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.000 things were changing and there was this amazing connection with 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.600 major in the environment, and looking back, it was actually 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.040 just quite a magical time. But things could have changed 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:33.640 so dramatically. 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.720 When things were you know, still Christine or still beautiful, 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.480 and you were more concerned about like our I was 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:44.320 more concerned about like not wanting to lose this beautiful area, 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:46.000 preserve this whatever. 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.400 For a lot of people, Maggie included, the seventies were 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.840 really optimistic time. The environmental movement was just starting to 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.360 take hold. Nineteen seventy was a year of the first 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.439 Earth Day. People took to a street demanding that government's 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:05.880 pay closer attention to protecting the natural world. It felt 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.560 like you could truly make a change and preserve the 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:09.680 nature around you. 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:14.319 But that changed quickly, because very quickly, you know, then 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.720 we saw things happening around the world related to climate. 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.520 But you know, in your own little world, you're worried 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.000 about the trash at your favorite campsite as opposed to 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.560 like an entire community being destroyed by flooding. 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.520 Right by the end of the nineteen nineties, environmentalism has 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.880 become a highly politicized issue. It's no longer Rah Rah 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:40.400 Earth Day. It's more like heat waves, wildfires, hurricanes, massive 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:45.240 hor spills, and Amazon deforestation. And now Maggie's a mum, 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:47.760 and all of a sudden, her personal interest in the 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.320 environment takes on a different meaning. It isn't just about 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:52.120 her anymore. 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.920 I mean, if it doesn't change you, I don't know 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.000 what would you know. I feel the urgency, very passionate. 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.320 I think that's true for many people, and I'm happy 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:05.079 to say that. I hear people say it was their 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:09.079 children or their grandchildren or something that woke them up. 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.160 Yeah. Actually, my kids are basically saying age as yours 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.719 as well. And I think it's an amazing time when 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.319 you actually have children and you suddenly have that greatest 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.480 sense of the natural world and your place in it, 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.559 and they your responsibilities, and then you've got this background 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.840 of this existential threat which you've as you're saying, it's 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.280 just suddenly becomes really focused for you. 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.800 And if you can't look at your children as they 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:38.760 face this future and say, I have really been trying, 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:42.240 you know, I'm really doing something. I think that we 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.640 all owe it to them to be focusing on this 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.480 and doing as much as we can, and that we 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:51.920 can look them in the eye and not feel that 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:53.959 and we you know, I'm still going to feel that 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:54.560 I failed them. 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.160 That's another story anyway, but you know. 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.280 That I can at least say I really did try. 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:05.679 Anyway. Maggie and their husband Patrick made it a priority 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.760 to stilling their kids a passion for the environment, and 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.679 in part that meant raising them vegetarian. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.440 We decided to raise our children that way because I 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:16.920 wanted to give my first of all, what I believe in. 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:22.040 And I'm responsible for their physical and moral health really 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.360 until they're a grown person, right, so I want to 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.440 provide them what I believe is the most a responsible 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.000 way of living and the healthiest way of living. So 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.480 it's the single most effective thing you can do personally 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.040 is change the way you eat right, because you can't overnight, 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.240 you know, I mean, I guess, I guess if you're 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.080 a person who flies on a private plane every day, 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.240 you could stop. That would be that would be very act. 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.040 That would be good. You know, children, if if you 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:54.200 explain what animal food is, they generally don't want to 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.160 eat it. The truth is they don't generally understand what 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.720 it is. But the great thing is watching my kids, 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:01.760 like you know, you know, come to it on their 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.840 own and understand it on their own, and you know, 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:09.200 process it and it's a journey. And I think we 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:15.080 are responsible for our children's morals and ethical health. And 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.800 we know that young people's brains are not fully formed 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.000 till they're twenty six. Now you're not going to be 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.160 telling it, you know, twenty one year old what to do. 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.440 You can you can barely, you know, tell a thirteen 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.360 year old what to do. But as far as instilling values, 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.640 you know that that is your job. 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.280 And something I'd love to sort of explore with you 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.800 a little bit more of that is this love of 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.160 the environment in your children. But the other thing you've done, 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:44.160 of course, is you've even stilled disappreciation of music. And 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.280 I'd love you to talk a little bit more about 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:48.520 what role music plays in your family. 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:55.000 Well, I mean, I just love music myself, right, and 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.920 I was an amateur songwriter my whole life. And my 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.640 husband loves me music, and so we just always had 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:04.600 a lot of music in our house. You know. We 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.839 we live in a small house. We have two bedroom house. 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:08.439 We had three pianos in it. 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.120 Really, we had. 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:16.080 Two pianos because what happened was we got my my 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:20.880 mother had died young, and then my father sadly died also, 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.520 and I had my childhood piano. And then we had 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:26.880 someone that we got off craigslist. It was like a 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.720 baby grand like took up the entire room that it 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.040 was in. And then we had a keyboard, so we 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:36.199 had a piano everywhere in the house. Really, it's like 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.520 a fireplace for some people that they you must have. Yeah, 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:41.800 so there's that, and then you know, just out of 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.720 the blue, like they just learned to play. Phineas asked 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.680 my husband to teach him how to play one song 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.679 to impress a girl, and he taught him what a 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.560 chord was and what an inversion was, and that was 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.120 the extent of his lessons. 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:57.040 Wow. 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:58.920 And then he asked me, like, what's a chord on 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.000 a guitar? And I show him And that was literally it. 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:06.199 Every every other bit of it came from YouTube or 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:07.800 him just figuring out. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:08.240 And then the. 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.680 Exact same thing happened with Billy. She just did it herself. 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.160 So you know, I guess we had given them this 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.400 exposure to like constant music and this music program, but 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.440 it really just the main thing we did was just 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.080 kind of allow them to do what they wanted. 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:32.240 We're on fucking the future. We're on fucking the future. 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.760 All this discussion about music might seem like a bit 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.240 of a tangent for a show about the climate, but 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.440 I promise it's important because what Mackie understood is that 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.040 music and art can be a powerful catalyst for social change. 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.840 You know, I certainly grew up with you know, Joni 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.360 Mitchell and Bob Dylan and Joan Bias and you know 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.000 Peter Paul and Mary and you know, those are the 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.800 songs my parents put me to bed too, you know, 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:03.200 And now they were political and social, you know, so 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.680 they were certainly impactful to me. I think you have 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:11.960 an opportunity as a musician to reach a very large 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:17.240 audience and have a more direct connection to people. People 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:23.080 really feel connected to songwriters because they've expressed what they 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.840 feel and it's a rare and special you know. And 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.240 I've felt it myself with songwriters, and you feel so 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.200 connected to them. And then if that songwriter decides to 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.560 write about climate change, or not write about it but 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.520 talk about it at their concert or be on an 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:45.760 Instagram post about it, it really makes a huge difference. 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.080 In twenty sixteen, Maggie began to experience his first hand. 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.640 Her fourteen year old daughter Billy, released a song called 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.880 Ocean Eyes, and it launched into pop stardom. 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.200 That just took over my whole life, right because I 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.080 had to protect her, I had to be with her, 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.440 I had to make sure everything was okay. And so 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:09.680 then I found myself in this new world. But but 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.680 I couldn't leave behind my other world, right, so constantly 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.760 I was why are we using plastic water bottles backstage? 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.440 Why do we have this kind of merch Why is 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.040 the vinyl thing? What is the packaging thing, just constantly 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:28.480 asking questions about the music industry in terms of climate 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:33.880 change and sustainability. So I and in the beginning, to 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.240 be honest, I was pulling my hair out. It was 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:40.400 so stressful and it seemed like no one was doing anything. Now, 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.840 I was very lucky that I got introduced to Chris Martin, 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.920 and Chris Martin introduced me to this company called Reverb, 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.920 and then I started to get this support and feel 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.720 this community in the music industry of people who were 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.320 trying to make change. Then Billy at the same time, 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.720 Billy and Phineas got powerful, you know. And so in 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.680 the beginning, nobody was listening to me. I'm just again 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.480 the annoying person saying like, you know, why are we 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:09.080 doing this? So why can't we We've been there, just 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:13.200 annoying people. But then you know, my children have this power, 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.240 and people started to listen. And when people started to listen, 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.920 they realized, oh, this actually really matters, and it's really 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.000 affecting us, and it's affecting our whole industry, it's affecting 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:24.680 our whole world. 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.479 All of a sudden, Maggie's kids had a platform and 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.639 they realized it. Together they could use their influence to 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.000 make a positive impact on the climate. The first and 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.879 most obvious way they could do this was by helping 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:43.960 make plant based food seem cool, because for decades, veganism 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.080 has being portrayed as anything back cool. 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:51.919 We're with mankind for ethical animal treatment. Poplars are living creatures. 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:56.080 You gotta stop harvesting them for food or what? Or 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.000 will boycott fishy jos? 0:17:58.240 --> 0:17:59.359 You're vegetarians? 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:00.600 Who cares what you do? 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:02.040 Shut up? 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.840 Animals eat other animals. It's nature, No, it isn't. We 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:12.359 taught a lie and to eat tofu. That's a clip 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.040 from a show Futurama, and it's emblematic of how vegans 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.040 have been mocked in pop culture, so much so that 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.719 Maggie says, it's almost become a dirty word. 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:25.040 Well, if you're referring to the study that I was 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.680 quoting to you that referred to vegan as one of 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:33.119 the most hated words in the English language, you know, 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.600 I think the reason is in the article I was 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:39.840 quoting to you makes the point that it's about cognitive dissonance, right, 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:45.159 so that most people, when confronted with the facts of 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:51.040 animal agriculture, the way animals are treated, the way they're killed, 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:55.920 the environmental impact, the degradation of our soil, the loss 0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:02.440 of biodiversity, the amount of greenhouse gases, the health most everyone, 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.360 if they see those facts in front of them, are 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.840 going to think it's a good idea not to be 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.399 participating in the system of animal agriculture. But if you 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.720 don't do it, then you have cognitive dissonance. And so 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.480 people who do it and have taken on this word vegan, 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.639 you know, become kind of an antagonistic feeling in your body, 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:26.000 so you kind of hate that. 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.520 What Maggie is saying is that even though people might 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:33.160 support all the benefits of a vegan diet, because that's 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.280 a negative association with word, they tend to shy away 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.800 from it, and that has real consequences. 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:43.080 If you label a food item vegan, something like I 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.199 should get the real step for you, you know, like 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.800 only twenty percent of people will choose that item, but 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:50.040 if you say it's you know, plant based, it could 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.760 be sixty to seventy percent. You know, when ordering off 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.120 a menu with plant based food. You've got to get 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.680 people to stop. You've got to change that culture from 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.119 vegan being a bad word or plant based being a 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.280 bad word or being the butt of the joke right 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:09.200 in TV and movies, all the environmentalists is a tree hugger, right, 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.040 and that vegan is you know, annoying and whatever. 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.640 Getting people to choose a climate friendly diet is partly 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.879 a cultural problem, so it definitely helps if one of 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.320 the world's most influential pop stars is a public supporter. 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.840 Maggie's helping her kids use their platforms to reflect their values, 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:30.320 starting with how they run their concerts. 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:34.680 When the pandemic happened, we were on tour with Billy's 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:39.199 then world tour, and we were super excited about this 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.200 tour for the sustainability factor. You know, we had done 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.439 all these things. We had all plant based food for 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:46.240 three meals a day for our whole crew. 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:48.639 But then disaster struck. 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.640 We had this very sustainable backstage and all these things implemented, 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.920 and then we went home because of COVID and then 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.080 within like five days, I was sitting with Billy. I 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.080 was like, you know, people are going to need food. 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.639 Plant based restaurants are going to go to business, and 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:08.320 small businesses are going to suffer, and you know, et cetera, 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.480 et cetera, let's get food and we'll feed people. Well, 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.520 very quickly, we we were doing that. We were delivering 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.560 meals to people, but we realized that there were very 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:23.400 few organizations that were feeding people were taking into account 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.119 the quality of what they fed people and the environmental 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:31.160 impact of what they fed. So we were like, wow, 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.040 massive amounts of food are going out to people with 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.840 no regard to the health of the people receiving it 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:40.960 or the climate impact of that pid It's incredible, it 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:42.880 is right when you think about it, it was like it 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:45.920 was like a hall moment of like bad, like oh 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:49.360 my gosh, right, gigantic amounts. 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.879 Of food really really yeah, you think. 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:55.800 About major major food organizations. We were lucky enough to 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:57.800 get calls with some of these, you know, and they 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:02.160 did not have an awareness of the impact of plant 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:04.639 based food and what they're feeding. They had often no 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:09.520 plant based option, and they might even have like a 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.000 kosher option or but then no plant based option. It 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:15.240 was like, you do know that environmentally we need to 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:19.320 reduce our animal agriculture, and some of them would say, yeah, yeah, 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.640 that's true, like we do. Like so that's when we realize. 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:26.960 We also realized that if we directed our work toward 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:30.680 communities in food apartheides areas that were cut off from 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:34.359 access to nourishing food. We could multiply our impact. 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:36.200 But as the other piece of base, which is which 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:40.840 is really terrifically important, that's food equity. And for listeners 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:43.520 who don't know what this is, how is that connected 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:43.960 to climate? 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:48.000 Well, food equity speaks to the fact that we do 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:52.520 not distribute food equally in our society, and a lot 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:56.000 of that is due to systemic racism. We have policies 0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:59.199