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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori

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Speaker 1: with you. Let me introduce two of our special guest tonight.

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Speaker 1: First of all, Newkirk, a practicing Hedgewich with more than

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Speaker 1: two decades of experience and seeking out the strangers cases

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Speaker 1: of the unexplained. Dana began her career by forming the

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Speaker 1: first ever all female paranormal investigation team back in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: subject of Space's Girly ghost Hunter series. In twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: she co founded the Traveling Museum of the Paranormal and

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Speaker 1: the Occult, for which she still serves as head curator. Dana,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the program. Thank you for having me. Looking

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Speaker 1: forward to this and of course, Greg Newkirk is one

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Speaker 1: of the world's only full time paranormal researchers and has

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Speaker 1: spent the last couple decades tracking down and investigating cases

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Speaker 1: of high strangeness in the supernatural, conducting groundbreaking research on

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Speaker 1: everything from alien abduction phenomena to poltergeist hauntings. Is also

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Speaker 1: the co founder of the Traveling Museum of the Paranormal

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Speaker 1: in the Occult and again the world's only mobile Museum

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Speaker 1: of the Unexplained. And Hello, Greg, good to have you

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Speaker 1: with us. Oh, pleasure to be here, George, thanks for

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Speaker 1: having us. You were with our old colleague Dave Schrader

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, weren't you? Both of you

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Speaker 1: were just you were, Yeah, a good guy, your friend.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the paranormal and I'll talk to

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Speaker 1: you individually for a while. Then just both of you

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Speaker 1: jump in anytime you want. But Greg, how did you

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Speaker 1: get started in this? Well, Dana and I quite literally

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Speaker 1: grew up investigating the paranormal. We've been doing it for

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Speaker 1: twenty years, driving around at night, listening to coast to

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Speaker 1: coast on our journeys into haunted houses as kids. And

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Speaker 1: then we started to get more serious about it, and

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Speaker 1: about three years ago we said, well, let's give this

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Speaker 1: a crack. Let's see if we can do this full time,

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Speaker 1: and we launched the Traveling Museum of the Paranormal in

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Speaker 1: the Occult and now we pretty much spend eight nine

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Speaker 1: months out of the year on the road, traveling from

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Speaker 1: coast to coast, presenting haunted objects, collecting haunted objects, helping

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Speaker 1: people with any kind of paranormal problem. Investigating pretty much

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Speaker 1: anything you name it. Do you go all over the country?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, literally, coast to coast, California to Maine, Florida,

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Speaker 1: all over. Now, what do you drive, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: traveling museum. To me, sounds like you pick up something

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Speaker 1: in this huge truck or van. What do you what

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Speaker 1: do you have? Well, believe it or not, it is

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Speaker 1: a Volkswagen minivan. No, we're very good at tetris. I

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Speaker 1: love it. I love it. And Dana, what is a hedgewitch? Hedge?

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Speaker 1: Which is I mean a lot of people kind of

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Speaker 1: have different ideas about what it is, but really it's

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Speaker 1: usually someone who associates a lot with the natural world,

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Speaker 1: So they work a lot with medicinal herbs, They work

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Speaker 1: a lot with things that you can find in nature,

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Speaker 1: and that kind of becomes one of the major aspects

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Speaker 1: of their magical practice. You sound like a good witch.

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Speaker 1: Can there be bad witches? I think, just like people,

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Speaker 1: there's good people, bad people, and I think that really

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Speaker 1: it's all about the intention behind what you're doing. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think absolutely there can be bad witches. And Greg.

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Speaker 1: As you travel around the country with the museum, do

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Speaker 1: you find that more and more people are fascinated by

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Speaker 1: all this. Well, I think that we're in a really

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Speaker 1: good climate for people to be fascinated by it. I

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Speaker 1: think we're seeing a resurgence in the last few years

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Speaker 1: of people getting more in touch with the spiritual nature

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Speaker 1: of things, and they're more interested in that type of thing,

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Speaker 1: and I think that more than ever, they're less afraid

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Speaker 1: of it. We're starting to see people who are becoming

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Speaker 1: less scared of the idea of the unexplained in the paranormal.

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Speaker 1: It's becoming more of a normal thing. That's one of

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Speaker 1: the things that we're constantly you know, it's one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest messages of the museum that we run is

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Speaker 1: that most of the time, these things that people are

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Speaker 1: afraid of, they're just trying to get your attention. And

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Speaker 1: so I think we're in a perfect place for the

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Speaker 1: paranormal right now. In the paranormal work that you've done, Greg,

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Speaker 1: have you ever come across anything that even scared you

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Speaker 1: or something you didn't want to get involved with? Quite

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Speaker 1: a few times, I mean, you know, there's things that

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Speaker 1: I think you find with a lot of these things,

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Speaker 1: you don't really have much of a choice but to

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Speaker 1: get involved. Sometimes you're you're dragged into it. And that

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Speaker 1: happens at least a few times a year. You know,

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Speaker 1: We've got artifacts in the museum that have caused nothing

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Speaker 1: but problems for people, car accidents, things that are believed

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Speaker 1: to be cursed, things that we've quite literally earlier this year,

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Speaker 1: we had to actually taken artifact back to a cave

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Speaker 1: in the Catskill Mountains that have been stolen from a

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Speaker 1: few years before because it kept it kept hurting people. Wow.

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Speaker 1: And do you find that spirits and ghosts attached themselves

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Speaker 1: to items? I think, you know, there's there's Our opinion

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Speaker 1: on this is a lot different than a lot of

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Speaker 1: our colleagues. I think that what happens a lot of

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Speaker 1: times is there are intelligences out there, or they're pieces

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Speaker 1: of us that exist somewhere in some kind of a

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Speaker 1: I guess, for lack of a better word, a cloud,

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Speaker 1: and times of high emotion, times of stress and trauma,

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Speaker 1: they can almost make an upload to that cloud. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes that attaches to specific places and things. I mean,

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Speaker 1: building is the biggest haunted object of all, and so

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Speaker 1: I think that times of intense emotion create this kind

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Speaker 1: of attachment that when the time is right or the

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Speaker 1: date or the place or the person, they can tap

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Speaker 1: into that and they experience that haunting and data. Of course,

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Speaker 1: you and Greg, you've put together what is called Hellier,

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Speaker 1: a five part documentary series about the Appalachian Mountains. How

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Speaker 1: did you key in on those mountains? Well, we were

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Speaker 1: originally contacted back in twenty twelve by a man who

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Speaker 1: was experiencing some strange activity on his property, specifically around

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Speaker 1: a mine shaft that was on its property. And after

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Speaker 1: you know, years and years of kind of looking into

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Speaker 1: this case and really digging into it, we started to

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Speaker 1: notice that there were a lot of similar types of

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Speaker 1: instances happening up and down the Mammoth Cave system in

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Speaker 1: and around that area. Sometimes people would refer to them

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Speaker 1: as goblins. Sometimes people would call them holler goblins. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: they would have completely different kind of local names for them.

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Speaker 1: But a majority of time, the things that were happening,

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Speaker 1: we're all the same. So we were able to kind

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Speaker 1: of put together this map, I guess you would say,

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Speaker 1: of where exactly this chain of events was happening. Greg,

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Speaker 1: Was there a specific case that led you to to

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Speaker 1: the Appalachian Mountains or was it just in general? Well,

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Speaker 1: where we were researching. Actually, the name of the documentary

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Speaker 1: is the name of the town where this case took place, Hellier, Kentucky.

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Speaker 1: They have a town called Hellier, Kentucky. It is a

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Speaker 1: town called Hellier, quite the name, and it's really interesting

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Speaker 1: because one of the things that we had just found

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Speaker 1: out is that the name Hellier actually means to obscure,

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Speaker 1: to cover up, which is what we think was happening

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Speaker 1: in this town. There was a guy who, like Dana

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Speaker 1: was saying, there's a guy named David who sent us

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Speaker 1: photographs of three toed footprints that were coming out of

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Speaker 1: a mind shaft. These these things that he saw his

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Speaker 1: children they were tapping on his windows at night, and

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Speaker 1: they described them as little naked children that were bald

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Speaker 1: like Grandpa, And they sounded quite a bit like the

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Speaker 1: the Sutton farmhouse attack that happened in Hopkins Hopkinsville, Kentucky

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Speaker 1: back in the fifties, and so everything seemed so similar

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Speaker 1: to that case that we started looking at it the

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Speaker 1: same way. And you know, this guy, David was convinced

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Speaker 1: that these creatures that were assaulting his family at night

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Speaker 1: were extraterrestrial and he desperately wanted us to come and

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Speaker 1: document that he wanted us to help him blow up

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Speaker 1: the mine that was on the edge of his property,

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Speaker 1: and he said he was trying to talk to the

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Speaker 1: police and they weren't taking him seriously. At first he

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Speaker 1: thought the locals were hazing him, and then it just

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Speaker 1: got so bad he and his family fled their home.

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Speaker 1: He went back with his brother in law to take

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Speaker 1: some photographs and pick up the rest of their stuff,

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Speaker 1: and that was the last we heard of him, and

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Speaker 1: he disappeared. And that's kind of where Hellier picks up

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Speaker 1: is us tracking down this case. And as we were

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Speaker 1: doing that, we were finding all of these different similar

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Speaker 1: these similar sightings were going hundreds of years back all

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Speaker 1: along the Appalaches, and people were just giving them different names.

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Speaker 1: They were all seeing the same thing. We think they

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Speaker 1: just were calling them different things. So no one really

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Speaker 1: put two and two together. How do you know that

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Speaker 1: this is the real deal as opposed to some trickery

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Speaker 1: or they're trying to pull the wool over your eyes,

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Speaker 1: I think. I mean, we initially were very skeptical of

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Speaker 1: what was happening, and even to this day there's still

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Speaker 1: a healthy level of skepticism. We were constantly trying to

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Speaker 1: really keep ourselves grounded throughout this investigation because it does

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Speaker 1: take some pretty crazy turns. So I think that's something that,

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Speaker 1: no matter what, is always in the back of our minds,

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Speaker 1: and just as far as the investigation goes, we try

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Speaker 1: to remain as skeptical as possible because there is a

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Speaker 1: lot of people out there who could potentially be putting

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Speaker 1: us on. When you were on the scene, could you

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Speaker 1: feel anything strange? Was there any kind of energy pattern

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Speaker 1: out there? Absolutely? I mean that was the first thing

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Speaker 1: that we noticed when we got to Hellier. I've kind

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Speaker 1: of all described it as a feeling of having your

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Speaker 1: brains sort of retuned to a location. It was the

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Speaker 1: first thing that we noticed. It felt strange there. It

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Speaker 1: felt very dreamy, like you had sort of stepped into

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Speaker 1: a different feeling sort of a place. It was really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Now you broke it down to the five parts the documentary, right, Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are there are five different parts. The first part

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Speaker 1: of the documentary is basically just a recap of the

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Speaker 1: investigation that we had done so far. This is something

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Speaker 1: that's been seven years in the making and it's just

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Speaker 1: kind of something we've been slowly chipping away at because

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Speaker 1: there's there's so many mysteries to unravel. Uh, So the

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Speaker 1: first part is just kind of catching up, and then

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Speaker 1: everything from the second episode on is the actual investigation itself.

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Speaker 1: Were you happy with the way it ended up? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that's that's a really interesting question because I

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Speaker 1: think that any kind of paranormal media, and even in

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Speaker 1: paranormal investigation itself, it's it never goes where you think

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Speaker 1: it's going to go. It always takes you someplace else

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly, And that is really what happened. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: this thing started out is what we thought was going

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Speaker 1: to be a very simple investigation. When we were going

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Speaker 1: to go to Hellier, we were going to find David.

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Speaker 1: We were going to go to his property and we

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Speaker 1: were going to see what was going on there. But

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Speaker 1: as we started to peel back layers of that onion,

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Speaker 1: we noticed that this was a bigger phenomena. This was

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Speaker 1: stranger than just goblins. It had. Part of the reason

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Speaker 1: the case even got picked up again was because our

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Speaker 1: friend Karl Peiffer, who was the director, he experienced synchronicities

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Speaker 1: that were just absolutely impossible that we're leading him to

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Speaker 1: do this case. It was like the phenomena itself was

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Speaker 1: telling us you need to document this, you need to

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Speaker 1: show it to people. And now that we've done that,

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Speaker 1: it's in the world, and we're noticing other people are

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Speaker 1: starting to feel themselves being sucked into this as well.

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Speaker 1: What's the link with the moth man? So the second

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Speaker 1: episode is where this pops up. One of the things

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Speaker 1: that happened a year after we got the initial emails

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Speaker 1: was we got two very strange, pointed emails from a

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Speaker 1: man who went by the pseudonym Terry Wrist. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're pretty sure that's not his real name. He sent

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Speaker 1: very strange emails that said, the first ones that I

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Speaker 1: have something for you one week, and then a week

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Speaker 1: later to the date, we got another email that said,

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Speaker 1: why did you stop when you were so close? Right? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's an interesting thing. He sent us a photograph of

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Speaker 1: GPS coordinates, and those GPS coordinates went to Brown Mountain,

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Speaker 1: which was a place we had been just months before.

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Speaker 1: This person, whoever this is, knew where we were what

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Speaker 1: we were looking into, because we were there initially. We

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Speaker 1: were there to try and find this entrance to a cave.

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Speaker 1: Aren't there strange lights on Brown Mountain? Is at the

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Speaker 1: same place in them. Yea, yeah, the brown mountain lights.

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Speaker 1: They still don't quite exactly know how they've happened, but

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Speaker 1: they're these weird, whispy, little little green lights to come

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Speaker 1: up out of the mountains and float around. And they're

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Speaker 1: not plasma balls, are they. They aren't sure. They're not

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Speaker 1: quite sure. The one interesting thing is the mountains made

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Speaker 1: out of quartz, so they think maybe it could be

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Speaker 1: some expanding and contrasting that's making things light up and

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Speaker 1: shoot sparks. Okay, and no back to Mothman. So this

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Speaker 1: guy who went by Terry Risk. The first thing I

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Speaker 1: did was I start to look around and see, you know,

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Speaker 1: who is this person who uses the pseudonym. And the

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Speaker 1: only reference that I could find to this name was

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Speaker 1: in a very obscure book that came out in the

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Speaker 1: nineties called Secret Cipher of the Euphanots was by Alan Greenfield,

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Speaker 1: and it's a book about using magic rituals to contact extraterrestrials.

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Speaker 1: Very fringe stuff, nothing that I was really into at

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Speaker 1: the time. And in the very back there is an

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Speaker 1: interview between Alan and this man using the pseudonym Terry Risk,

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Speaker 1: and in it, this man talks about using the secret

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Speaker 1: cipher in order to figure out where Injurd Cold lived,

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Speaker 1: and in this he actually uses a secret cipher to

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Speaker 1: use the words ink and black, which actually meant injured Cold.

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Speaker 1: And in the second email that we got from this

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Speaker 1: guy who called himself Terry Wrist, possibly the same guy,

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Speaker 1: he said that the ink and black is still isolated. Well,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that Terry talks about in this

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Speaker 1: interview with Alan is that injured Cold had been on

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Speaker 1: the run and with hiding, and that the whole Mothman

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Speaker 1: flap was really a distress signal. Very weird stuff, but

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Speaker 1: an immediate tangible link to the Mothman case and injured Cold.

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Speaker 1: That's dramatic, it really is. And Dana, in terms of

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Speaker 1: your role here as a witch, do you use that

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Speaker 1: in the investigation? Absolutely for me, I've always taken magic

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Speaker 1: and utilized it with paranormal investigation. So I'm constantly, you know,

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Speaker 1: utilizing like taro or creating communication altars, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of just another layer that we can tap into when

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Speaker 1: we're investigating. So it's always been a really positive thing

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Speaker 1: for me and really kind of been what drives my

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Speaker 1: style of investigating. I guess as you were investigating this

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Speaker 1: particular case, Did you know what you were going after?

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Speaker 1: Or did it just happen? I think I think we

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Speaker 1: thought we knew what we were going after. It's probably

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Speaker 1: the best way to go. Or you hoped you knew exactly, Yes, exactly,

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Speaker 1: We hoped we knew what we were going after. And

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Speaker 1: really every time we thought we knew what was happening,

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Speaker 1: it would sort of pivot and acclimate itself and change.

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Speaker 1: So we kind of just went with it and we

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Speaker 1: continue to investigate it the way that it kind of

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Speaker 1: wanted to be investigated. Listen to more Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: AM every weeknight at one a m. Eastern and go

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Speaker 1: to Coast to Coast am dot com for more