1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I think we're all 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: still reeling from what we saw last week at the 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: airport in Washington, d C. And also in Philadelphia, we 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: had two plane crashes. One was the small aircraft in 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: Philadelphia that was an ambulance aircraft, and the other was 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: an American Airlines flight that collided with a helicopter at 7 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: the Reagan International Airport in DC. And there were no 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: survivors I believe, in either of those examples there, but 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: with both the helicopter and the plane, and then the 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: ambulance airplane as well, no survivors. And I think the 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: entire country is reeling over this. We see this and 12 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: there brings up a bunch of fear overflying, but also 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: just the knowledge of all of these families that have 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: lost someone. I mean, I think as a parent, I 15 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: watch this and I go through and I see these 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: stories of kids that were lost, parents that are lost, 17 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: and kids that are now without a parent, and you 18 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: just watch this and you think, how do people get 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: through this? And then you see people who I mean, 20 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: I think we all watched where the man was in 21 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: the airport, and if you didn't see this, it was 22 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: very hard to watch. There was a young man in 23 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: the airport and he was waiting for his wife and 24 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: he had just received a text from her saying we're landing. 25 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: I'll be there in twenty minutes, and he was waiting 26 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: to see what happened, and a reporter came up and 27 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: asked to see the text message from his wife, and 28 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: people were like, wow, this is so invasive. But I 29 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: think at that time I give that reporter maybe a 30 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: little grace because I think at that time that reporter 31 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: probably didn't know what was happening either, because it's so 32 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: unusual to have an aircraft just go down like this 33 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: and to lose everyone on board. But I'm so glad 34 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: that we have someone with us today who wants to 35 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: talk about this, and her situation is she's lived through 36 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: this herself. It's a devastating situation. But I think all 37 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: of us are that at that moment where we're saying, 38 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: how do you get through something like this? What is 39 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: this like? And how do you get past the fear? 40 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: So I have at the time of her the incidents 41 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: for her, her name was Heidi Snow So you may 42 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: have heard of her, but her name is now Heidi 43 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: Senator Heidi, thank you so much for joining us. You've 44 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: gone through this yourself, and I appreciate you willing to 45 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,839 Speaker 1: share because you lost your fiance on TWA flight eight 46 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: hundred back in July of nineteen ninety six. Thank you 47 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: for joining me. 48 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me. 49 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: I mean, as we watch this, we think about people 50 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: who go through this, and I don't know how you 51 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: get through it. Your story is to me especially emotional. 52 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: He actually proposed to you right before he got on 53 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: this flight, right. 54 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 2: Yes, shortly before, Yes, tell. 55 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: Us a little bit about that, exactly what happened leading 56 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: up to the flight and then finding that out? What 57 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: is that like? 58 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: Well, we were in New York and he was heading 59 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: to Paris to train. He was a hockey player from 60 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: who had been on the Harvard hockey team and was 61 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 2: a professional hockey player, and he was going back for 62 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 2: training in New York. And I just remember he went 63 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,119 Speaker 2: off to the airport and then a couple hours later, 64 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: I get a phone call from my mom saying, please 65 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: tell me Michelle did not get aboard a plane going 66 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: to Paris tonight. And I just remember turning on the 67 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 2: TV to the dark debris in the water floating and 68 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: all the and hearing basically that they're looking for survivors 69 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: and that this plane has gone down, and I just 70 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: remember just holding onto hope and when they said they're 71 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: looking for survivors and that there's a moment where you're 72 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: holding on hope that somehow he's going to swim to shore. 73 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: He's okay. I know he's in those waters, but he's okay. 74 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: And as I turned on the TV and saw this, 75 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: it was exactly was reliving my loss once again and 76 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: just thinking of all of them and how everybody's going 77 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: through these painful thoughts in their mind and all the unknowns. 78 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: I mean, one thing about air disasters it's different than 79 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 2: most sudden losses is there's really a lot of time 80 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 2: involved in figuring out, you know, were they officially on 81 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: the plane, and then until their remains are found, sometimes 82 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 2: there's still a little bit of time where we all 83 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 2: hope somehow they swim to shore, they're okay. And so 84 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: as this process goes on, it's a really difficult as 85 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 2: the reality starts to sit in and really is that 86 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: they're really gone forever. You know, most of us expect 87 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,679 Speaker 2: a separation of just days and then suddenly it's forever, 88 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 2: and going through that process is really hard, and also 89 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: with air disasters, it's particularly hard because we just don't 90 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: know what their last moments were like, did they know 91 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 2: this was happening, where they scared, was there anything, There's 92 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 2: a lot of information that we just don't have about 93 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: what the final incident was like for them. And so 94 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: right after the incident, I remember gathering all gathered together 95 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: outside of Jfkare Report and all the families came together 96 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: and we waited for the remains to be found, and 97 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: I just remember being there for days, and when I 98 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: did shut down the site, still his remains had not 99 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 2: been found. And I remember trying to go back to 100 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 2: life as normal, and I, you know, basically, they're saying, 101 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: our site shut down, but go on with your life 102 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 2: and we'll let you know if they're found. For the 103 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: people who hadn't had their loved ones found, and I 104 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: found it particularly difficult. So I went back to New 105 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 2: York City and I remember I went to the Mayor's 106 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: office and I said, you know, I'd lost my fiance. 107 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: Is there a support route here for air disasters? And 108 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 2: he said there isn't one, but what we need one, 109 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: But He also said, you know what, the families of 110 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: PanAm flight one O three, which crashed eight years earlier, 111 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: we're all gathering together because they were reliving their losses 112 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: from witnessing flight eight hundred, and so I remember a 113 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 2: very kind person from that organization reached out and actually 114 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: even picked me up and drove me to their meeting. 115 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: And when I showed up there, it was so important 116 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 2: for me. I got to talk to other fiancees. I 117 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: got to see other people who had been through this 118 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: and realize that they're functioning and they're okay, and they're 119 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: still alive, and they were sharing their stories, and I 120 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 2: was sharing my story and being in the comfort of 121 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: them other people who'd been there before meant so much 122 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: to me. So I remember at that meeting, I said, 123 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: I'm the only person here from flight eight hundred, but 124 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 2: we all need you, and so I invited everybody. I said, 125 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: please give me your name and number and who you're lost, 126 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 2: and let's start making sure that your own call for 127 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 2: these families, because you've helped me so much. I really 128 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 2: need to know that we can pair you up with 129 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 2: others from our incident. And that's actually how ACCESS started 130 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: a very long time twenty seven years ago, was in 131 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: that room with that meeting when I learned that the 132 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 2: only people who really got it were people who had 133 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: been there before. And then, unfortunately, after that Swiss aircraft. 134 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 2: So then our two Way families and our PanAm families 135 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 2: were then on call for those families. And then we 136 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: had an Egypt air crash again out of JFK, and 137 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: then we had nine to eleven, and then we had 138 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: a last Airlines. We just had their anniversary two days ago. 139 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: We just sat with them through their memorial service, so 140 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 2: a lot of them are reliving their losses as well 141 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 2: as they're watching this all unfold and so our home 142 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: main purpose of access is to make sure people know 143 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 2: that they're not alone and that we're here for them. 144 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: So when people call for help, we pair them up 145 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: according to who they lost. So if somebody lost a child, 146 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: we pair them up with another person who lost a child, 147 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: and we really give them a mentor who will guide 148 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: them through the process, not just in the immediate because 149 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: right now there's a lot of wonderful people caring for them, 150 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: you know, at different sites in different locations, but we're 151 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: there for the long term. When they say, how do 152 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: I clean up my child's room. How do I go 153 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: back to work? How do I live after this? So 154 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 2: we're there after the funerals, we're there after the memorial 155 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: and our grief mentors, just a community of people who've 156 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: really lived through this pain before and all the unknowns 157 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: that come along with it that are super challenging, and 158 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: so are. We have the kindest, nicest people who I mean, 159 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: everybody came forward right when this happened, saying I'm on call, 160 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 2: We're ready, and then we're all talking and we're all 161 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 2: connecting as well, because it just brings us all back 162 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: to day one, when our lives all changed in an instant. 163 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: And certainly an emotional support group that you don't ever 164 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: want to have to expand because that means that another 165 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 1: disaster has occurred. And yet here it is a situation 166 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: that people will definitely need support through. And I think 167 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: one of the things that I read about you that 168 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: I found so fascinating was that people were like, Okay, 169 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: the funeral is over, you should move on, you should 170 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: get back to life. And I think anytime there's a 171 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: sudden death like this, I remember we lost a classmate 172 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: when I was sixteen. He was hit by a car, 173 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: and that was kind of Once the funeral was over, 174 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: that was kind of how well. Even my family kind 175 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: of reacted like, Okay, go back to school. And I couldn't. 176 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: I couldn't. I couldn't, Like my mind was so wrapped 177 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: around how can this happen? How can he just be gone? 178 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: How can life just end like that? And I think 179 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: with what you're saying with the airplanes and the aircraft casualties, 180 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: it is so different because it's not just you that knows. 181 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: I mean, when you talk about someone having a sudden death, 182 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: it's like your community wraps around you and your family 183 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: wraps around you. But in this case of the flight 184 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: in DC, of flight eight hundred, we all watched it, 185 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, so the entire country is going we demand answers, 186 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: what happened? Is this going to happen to us? There's 187 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: this collective fear that probably doesn't make you feel any 188 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: more comfortable. It's probably much more difficult to manage when 189 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: it's on the news every day. 190 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: Right, And yes, definitely with flight one hundreds, for example, 191 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 2: there's been a lot of unknowns of what actually caused 192 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 2: the incident, and that's gone on for years and forever actually, 193 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: but really at the end of the day, our focus 194 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 2: is no matter what caused it or loved ones still 195 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: don't come home to us, and so our focus is 196 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 2: really on the grief piece and just making sure that 197 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: people have people who will honor their loved ones with 198 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: them for the long term. So we always celebrate their 199 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: birthdays with them. We make sure that they're never forgotten 200 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 2: and that we're there for them for their duration for 201 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: a long time. So you're really given basically a best 202 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 2: friend who is there for you, and you need to 203 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 2: talk to them who really remembers being there themselves and 204 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: just being a peer support and a lot of our care. 205 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 2: You're not telling them exactly what to do. That's not 206 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: what we do. What we do is with the comfort 207 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 2: of having somebody to talk to who's been there before. 208 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: And you know, when you're saying this, when the rest 209 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 2: of the world doesn't comprehend it, or grief mentors do. 210 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: They're really role models and people they can also look to. 211 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 2: How do you do certain things that other people wouldn't 212 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 2: understand would even be difficult, such as just like I 213 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, like going back to work or over time, 214 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 2: we've some people who've gotten remarried, for example, and a 215 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 2: lot of them talk to their grief mentors like, how 216 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: do I incorporate my loved one who I miss so 217 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: much in my future now? And how do I know 218 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: A big piece a lot for the parents is, you know, 219 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 2: how do I make sure to honor their loved one 220 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 2: and make sure that with For example, if there's a 221 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 2: spouse passed away and they have a lot of children, 222 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: our grief mentors say, you know, here's some ways to 223 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: honor the loved ones and teach their children how to 224 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 2: remember them. And so we just we focus on very 225 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: specific things based on the relationship with who they lost. 226 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more with the Tutor Dixon podcasts. 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Or call eight eight eight 243 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: four eight eight IFCJ that's eight eight eight four eight 244 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: eight if CJ or eight eight eight four eight eight 245 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: four three two five. We've got more coming up. Stay tuned. 246 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 1: So what was it like for you? Because when you 247 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: when you lost him, there's this iconic picture of you 248 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: on the beach with family kind of saying goodbye, but 249 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: probably not. I mean that's how as the world we 250 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: saw that way. Oh they're out there saying goodbye. That 251 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: was just the beginning of goodbye for you, and really 252 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: probably not really at that point prepared to say, yeah, 253 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: we've given up pope, because I imagine that having never 254 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: found his remains, there was for months a part of 255 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: you that was like, could he be somewhere, could he 256 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: have could he be in a hospital somewhere, could there 257 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: be like a memory loss situation? You know, I just 258 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: imagine like all the things that my mind would go 259 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: through hoping that he was still around. 260 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, And a lot of our brief mentors do 261 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: identify with that. I mean, yes, the rest of the 262 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 2: world says, of course they're gone, and look at the news. 263 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: But in our case, we really do count on that 264 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 2: to hold on hope. And that picture you're speaking of, 265 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: when I'm sitting there by the water, he remains it's 266 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 2: still not been found yet, and so I remember that 267 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 2: very well, just holding out hope maybe he'll Nobody else 268 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 2: in the world would come this and it doesn't sound 269 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 2: like it makes any sense to anyone else, but it is. 270 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 2: It was hope that I held on too, that somehow, 271 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 2: maybe he's survived it somehow, and so I knows. At 272 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 2: this point, they found many of the bodies, but there's 273 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: still many that have not been found yet. So it's 274 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: it's a very difficult time right now. And there's just 275 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: a lot of phases with this. Back to as you 276 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 2: were speaking about earlier, It's like, right, right now within 277 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: the news and all of that, and then there's new 278 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 2: events that happen, New information comes out, and sometimes it's 279 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 2: not accurate, and then that can be hurtful too, but 280 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: the families as well. So I think many of us 281 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: really understand that aspect of it, of the all the 282 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 2: unknowns that are coming forward, and who do you listen to? 283 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: You know what facts that are coming forward are true 284 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 2: right now or you know what really happened? And so 285 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: just a lot of us went through that process and 286 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 2: still today they are unknowns, even with Flight eight hundred 287 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: and many of the other incidents too. I imagine that 288 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: there's it's different now even then when you went through this, 289 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 2: because when you went through this, my gosh, there wasn't 290 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 2: social media. 291 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: There wasn't the access to information and the wrong information 292 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: that there is today. And I think that's where you've 293 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: had all this discussion of you know, the pilot and 294 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: did our family keeper name out of it? For too long? 295 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: But my gosh, could we just be respectful of these 296 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: people who have lost someone? And I think for we 297 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: have become a society that's like we demand information immediately, 298 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: we want it right now, but we forget sometimes that 299 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: this is sixty seven families, and it's so much more 300 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: than that because those That's what I always say when 301 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: there's a disaster like this, It's not just sixty seven families, 302 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: it's everyone they touched. It's all the people they worked with, 303 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: all their best friends, all of their groups that get together, 304 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: their kids play with. Everybody in the community across the 305 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: country is affected by this because it's such a mass 306 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: casualty event that you have to respect the fact that 307 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: they're going through something you cannot even imagine. It's such 308 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: a special group of people that will be able to 309 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: bond like this through access because they've all gone through 310 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: something that so few of us will ever understand on 311 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: such a public level, where there is such a demand. 312 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: If you lose a loved one in a car accident, 313 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: the entire country is not like, how did it happen? 314 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: We want to know, But in this case, you have 315 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: everybody in the country saying, we're not going to get 316 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: on a plane again, tell us what exactly happened here, 317 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: and they're making assumptions. How do you handle now that 318 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: things have changed with social media, how do you handle 319 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: that and how do you come around the families in 320 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: that case. 321 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 2: It's definitely changed a bit in that regard, and it 322 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 2: is very difficult, and that's why we're there. We're there 323 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 2: for people to be able to talk about how that 324 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: can be very difficult, and it's really having somebody else 325 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 2: who remembers. And we have had people, for example, in 326 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 2: general azation crashes where they blame the pilot and they're 327 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 2: reading this in the news and it's their father and 328 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: they were saying, what are you talking about? He was 329 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 2: such a skilled aviator and your facts aren't necessarily true, 330 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 2: and people the news hadn't even said it was some 331 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: person speculating, And so a lot of things, you're hitting 332 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: on a good point, which can be really hard when 333 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 2: information comes out that may or may not be accurate. 334 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 2: And it's also insulting to the family members to have 335 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 2: to hear things like that about their loved ones. So 336 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 2: the press and the media can actually be quite challenging 337 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 2: during this time as well, and we do focus on 338 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 2: that and we recognize that in over the years, I've 339 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 2: interviewed people all around the country and I actually wrote 340 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: a book called Surviving Sudden Loss Stories from Those who 341 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: have Lived It, where people share the story from the 342 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 2: moment they learn their loved one was affected by a 343 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: disaster or any type of sudden loss, and then they 344 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: give the story of who they've become over time, and 345 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,239 Speaker 2: they just describe what was helpful, what was hurtful, some 346 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: of the things that people said that was not quite 347 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 2: as effective, even though the person meant well. So we've 348 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 2: done a lot of research in that space, and we 349 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 2: actually use that to sometimes train the airline care teams 350 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 2: and let them know what, you know, families from the 351 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 2: past have said, because it's really learning from those who 352 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 2: have lived it is really, i think the most effective 353 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 2: care for first responders who are at the site right now, 354 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 2: and also for friends who meanwhile and would like to 355 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 2: say the right things but don't quite know what to say, 356 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 2: and that kind of thing. So that's another piece that 357 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: we really work on, and it's all based on data 358 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 2: we've collected from people who have been in those shoes 359 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 2: and lived through that moment of right when they learned 360 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 2: they were lost. And we've even changed so some airlines 361 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 2: have the call centers and they have to actually call 362 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 2: the families and let them know their loved one was 363 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 2: a board the aircraft. So we've done training with an 364 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 2: airline on that you know, how do you make that 365 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 2: phone call? How do you introduce yourself and let them 366 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 2: know this happened? And I basically took data from other 367 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 2: people who remembered reading that phone call and receiving it, 368 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 2: and basically they described I remember when the person said 369 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 2: this to me, but it was it would have been 370 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 2: better maybe if they said this. So we really in 371 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 2: a very positive way. Nobody means harm in any way. 372 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,959 Speaker 2: I know everybody means to say the right thing. But 373 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 2: so that has been a lot of our focus over 374 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 2: the last twenty seven years, actually interviewing people who have 375 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 2: lived it so that way people on the front lines 376 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: know the best way to greet them and talk to 377 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 2: them and make them feel heard. 378 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: Well, that's kind of why I brought up the reporter 379 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: that went up to the gentleman who the husband who 380 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: was at the airport, because I think that, you know, 381 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: hindsight is twenty twenty two, right, we're seeing this after 382 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: the fact this had just happened. I think that most 383 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: of us not I don't really think we fully understood 384 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: until morning that there would be no survivors. You know, 385 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: at that point, they were still hearing on the news 386 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: like they're in the water, they've got lights out there, 387 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: they're trying to find people, and you don't really have 388 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: a full understanding. And it's so rare, you know, this 389 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: is I think the last one was what two thousand 390 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: and six it was. It's so rare to have a 391 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: mass casualty aircraft event that I think that reporters don't 392 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: necessarily know what to how to handle this in the situation. 393 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: It's unfortunate that that got posted, I think, because my 394 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 1: heart goes out to that man. He's in his moments 395 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: of finding out that he's lost his wife, but really 396 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: not understanding what has happened, and that's all recorded and 397 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: it's all immediately out on social media. What would be 398 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: your advice to the media at this I'm sure you 399 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: had plenty of media contacting. You give us a little 400 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: overview of what that was like and what you would 401 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: say to the media if you could talk to them 402 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: right now, and. 403 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: I remember what would be I just think the main 404 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 2: thing is for them to listen and they tell me 405 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 2: about them, tell me about your loved one, and not 406 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 2: really necessarily go into the politics of it and asking 407 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 2: them questions about the recovery and things like that. So 408 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: I think it's really important to really focus on who 409 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 2: they lost and let them share what they're comfortable sharing 410 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 2: and letting them because it's also part of the grief 411 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 2: process too, to honor them. So sometimes if a news 412 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 2: story could be done well they're actually talking about the 413 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 2: loved one lost and not so much about the mechanics 414 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 2: of the air disaster and what happened. It's really like 415 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 2: I think sometimes everybody is trying to figure out what 416 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: happened and what the politics are around it and all 417 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 2: of those things, but the main thing is that these 418 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 2: people are not coming home, and to really I think 419 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 2: it's most important for people in the media to really 420 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 2: focus on who they lost and ask them questions about 421 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 2: that person and who they were. And that's really how 422 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 2: we focus on the grief piece. And yeah, I mean, 423 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 2: I think none of our other stuff actually matters down 424 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 2: the road. It's really that this person is gone and 425 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 2: your life's changed forever because they are not coming home, and. 426 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: It is kind of human nature to focus on that. 427 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: How did it happen? How did it? I mean, I 428 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: remember I'm a cancer survivor and I remember family members 429 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: being like, but why did you get it? We don't know, 430 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: we don't will never know. 431 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 2: And I read about that, and you've been through so much. 432 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, those are things where you 433 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: get to talk about that then and tell other people, yeah, 434 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: you know, you can't. I could have focused on that, 435 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: and I would never have moved off of that, you know, 436 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: because then your life becomes consumed with how do you 437 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: prevent it the next time? But I think that's kind 438 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: of how we get with these disasters too, because we like, 439 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: we have to prevent it, we have to make sure 440 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: that we're safe, we have to make sure this doesn't 441 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: happen again. And with your situation with Flight eight hundred, 442 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: like you said, they never really knew what. 443 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 2: Happened, and it still goes on today that there's a 444 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 2: lot of just so not actual confirmation of what happened. Yeah, 445 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 2: and still today, interestingly you see you see people talking 446 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 2: about it, so obviously it is one of those things 447 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: that lasts for a very long time. And that's in 448 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,719 Speaker 2: my I mean, from what I've read, it sounds like 449 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 2: that is why then you formed the Aircraft Casualty Emotional 450 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 2: Support Services. And I want to get that system or 451 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 2: that organization name out there because I think it is. 452 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: So important that people get to hear what it is. 453 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: But you formed that because there is sometimes a focus 454 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: on the wrong thing, and people need the right people 455 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 1: to talk to them right right exactly. 456 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 2: And really help them feel that they can get through it, 457 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 2: because I think one of the hardest things is just 458 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 2: looking ahead and thinking, I can't survive this, I can't 459 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 2: get through this. What do I do? How do I 460 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 2: get how can I can even see the future. I'm 461 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 2: living in the moment right now, and I think sometimes 462 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 2: people try to say things like, oh, well, one day 463 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 2: you'll get married or one day and right now, that's 464 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 2: not what anyone wants to hear right now, and focusing 465 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 2: on where they are right now and not trying to 466 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 2: make plans to make it go away the Greeks go, 467 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 2: it's really focusing on where they are right now, What 468 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 2: do they need right now? What do they want to tell, 469 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 2: what did they want to talk about right now? 470 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 471 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. You've had a lot of people 472 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: that have come together to be a part of this, 473 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: like your board of directors, your advisory board. It hasn't 474 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 1: been something partisan You've had Mary Giuliani, You've had Gavin Newsom, 475 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: You've had all kinds of people that have come together, 476 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: because when there is tragedy like this, I don't think, 477 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't see partisan partisanship should not play 478 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: a role here. It seems like this is when the 479 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: country comes together and says, Okay, what's the best way 480 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: to take care of our own. 481 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 2: Right exactly And in hindsight, and I look back on 482 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 2: so many people who are so amazing that I wish 483 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 2: I could still think today. I think that's one of 484 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 2: the hardest things that I sometimes have when I still 485 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 2: remember we're read around the same time that they're in 486 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 2: right now with the DC incident, just where there are 487 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 2: people reaching out and trying to help, and I sometimes 488 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 2: I can't of remember all their names and stuff, And 489 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 2: I would do anything now to be able to go 490 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 2: back and thank them for really having the just sometimes 491 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 2: maybe they didn't say the right thing, but I know 492 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 2: their heart was in it and they were so incredible. 493 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 2: And I'm just so grateful for people over that time 494 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 2: that really were there for me and helped so much. 495 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 2: With the memorials, like you're speaking of the mayor at 496 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: the time he came forward, he rolled up his sleeves. 497 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 2: You know, he got me in touch with the right people. 498 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 2: And so there are some people out there who really 499 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 2: made a big difference in actually my grief process, and 500 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 2: I'm so grateful to them, and I'm like forever grateful, 501 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 2: But it really made a big difference in the long 502 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 2: run as well. But the main thing with what we 503 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 2: do is really making sure people have somebody to talk 504 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 2: to who has been in their shoes before, who can 505 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 2: provide hope and inspiration and let them know that they 506 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 2: can get through it and find the best ways to 507 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 2: honor their loved one. And you know, that's what a 508 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 2: lot of our grief mentors focus on is, you know, 509 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: here are some things that I did that I thought 510 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 2: was helpful. Here are some things that I didn't realize 511 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 2: I shouldn't have done. So they kind of learned from 512 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 2: each other, what you know, they to share what was 513 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 2: helpful and what was hurtful through their process, which I 514 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 2: think also helps those who are just starting this journey 515 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 2: as well, you know, finding the best ways to remember 516 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 2: and honor their loved one. 517 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: One of the good things I think about social media 518 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: at a time like this is that you get to 519 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: see the people that need help. And that's something that 520 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: has actually been shocking to me, the number of people 521 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: that I know on a personal level that have said, oh, 522 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, my best friend's wife, my sister's best friend, 523 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: or a family member of mine was on the plane, 524 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: And it just makes it brings that to light that 525 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: this is very real, it's very close to you. The 526 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: country is a lot smaller than you think it is, 527 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: and you may know someone who has been very closely 528 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: hit by this tragedy. So for that, I mean, I 529 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: want them to know your organization. But you also wrote 530 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: a book. Would you suggest that people read that book 531 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: as well so that they can understand how to talk 532 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: to people who have gone through this. 533 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 2: Yes. Absolutely. The book is a wonderful tool for people 534 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 2: who have lost people, but also for people who are 535 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 2: providing care, because people really do touch on what was 536 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 2: helpful to them, what was hurtful to them, what people 537 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 2: said to them that made them feel so much better 538 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 2: in the different phases that they were in in their grief, 539 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 2: And that is really what the whole book is about, 540 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 2: is really like the first moments right when they learned 541 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 2: and who they become over time. And I have to 542 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 2: say they're all the most remarkable people who have been 543 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: through so much, and their stories are incredible and their 544 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 2: hearts are huge. These people who come forward to share 545 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 2: because they're doing it to help others. They want to 546 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 2: know that if they can share their stories that can 547 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 2: help others, and even the people from this incident one 548 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 2: day will be on the other side where they can 549 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 2: come forward to be trained and help unfortunately when the 550 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 2: next incident occurs. So it's really a community of productively 551 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 2: taking your loss and doing something productive with all the 552 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 2: harder knowledge that you've acquired from something that's just so hard. 553 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think people who haven't gone through loss 554 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: don't understand that grief is not something that it's not 555 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: one day you're healed. You don't get healed from grief, 556 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: and grief comes in weird waves at times. You're not 557 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: expecting a sudden memory, something strikes you, a smell, something 558 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: hits you, and it's very hard. Your book is called 559 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: Surviving Sudden Loss Stories from Those who have lived it. Yes, 560 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: I think it's so pertinent right now, not just because 561 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: of this aircraft, but also we just came through a pandemic. 562 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: A lot of people had a sudden loss in their life, 563 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: and even though that was mostly four years ago, it 564 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: is so fresh. Four years is not a very long time, 565 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: and I think that this, I mean, you can tell us, 566 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: but would you recommend the book for those folks as well, 567 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: because I think it's very hard everybody wanted to get 568 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: through it. That was also an incredibly political situation, so 569 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: it's almost like, you know, it's not easy to talk 570 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: about something when you feel like you're still broken from 571 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: a situation that people have strong political feelings about. 572 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, so, I think the book is a really 573 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 2: good tool for all of that, and really and also 574 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 2: just being able to see ahead and realize that there's 575 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: a future for the people they're helping and for them 576 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 2: themselves on their journey to know that they can get 577 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 2: through it and that they can survive it, because I 578 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 2: just remember many days where I just couldn't imagine tomorrow 579 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 2: and how to get through it, and the pain was 580 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 2: so so, so painful and difficult to accept them being gone, 581 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 2: And oftentimes everybody's so young and they're just taken from 582 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 2: us before their time, and it's just unbelievable and just 583 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 2: so difficult to come to terms with and just to 584 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: know that you're not in it alone and you're not 585 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 2: the only one. Because I kind of remember leaving the 586 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 2: air disaster site and not knowing what to do. There 587 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 2: was sort of no there were no resources at all, 588 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 2: but I always wish in my back pocket somebody had 589 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: given me access to know even if I don't call 590 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 2: right away, I know that that's there for me and 591 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 2: I'm not. There is care out there for me, and 592 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 2: I always remember that. It's kind of when I started this, 593 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 2: thinking if I can know that people can leave a 594 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 2: site and leave all the immediate press and all the 595 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: attention it's getting now, know that now they can call 596 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 2: for help, but that they can also call in a 597 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 2: few months when they're having a hard time. So we're 598 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 2: not focused on just the immediate. We're really there for 599 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 2: the long haul. And sometimes people come to us many 600 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 2: years later after an incident and just say I've never 601 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 2: really been able to talk about it, and I really 602 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 2: need to do that now. And we've got people five 603 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 2: to ten years after incidents as well, because we didn't 604 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 2: exist back then, so a lot of people came forward 605 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: from past incidents well before Flight one hundred to be 606 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 2: a part of access as well. So it definitely sticks 607 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 2: with people and it's part of their life and it's 608 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 2: part of who they become. And not all ways, but 609 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 2: also very the people who I've interviewed are just remarkably strong, 610 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 2: incredible people who took what they went through and then 611 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 2: they've turned their lives around in different ways as a 612 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 2: result of it and really put time into honoring and 613 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 2: making their loved one who they lost a part of who. 614 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: They are, including you. I mean, look at the organization 615 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,959 Speaker 1: that you've created and how God has used this in 616 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,479 Speaker 1: your life to be a light to people at their 617 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: darkest moments. I mean, I look at situations like this 618 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: and I see people like you who create an organization 619 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: around this that is so necessary. I mean, we look 620 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: at these organizations that are for veterans, organizations that are 621 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: for people that come through cancer, and you know, this 622 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: is something you don't think about. Is there an organization 623 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: for people who go through a sudden aircraft disaster like this? 624 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: But for someone who's gone through it now you're the 625 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: and when it happens, it's so many people at once. 626 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: It's just such a blessing to know that you out 627 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: there and that you have this for people. Can you 628 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: give everybody the address and how to find it so 629 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: in case they're in that situation, they will know how 630 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: to talk to you. 631 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we are here. In our website is access help 632 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 2: dot org acc ess ht LP dot org and people 633 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 2: can request carry there. You're welcome to share your stories 634 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 2: if you've been through loss, and if you've been through 635 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: this and you'd like to also be there for the 636 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 2: families and share what you've gone through, we're there for 637 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 2: you as well. So we are on call, and we 638 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 2: just want to make sure that people know they're not 639 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 2: alone in this process and that our community is there 640 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 2: and we've been there for many, many years and our 641 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 2: teams are incredible. We always have two hundred and fifty 642 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 2: brief mentors on call that we train through our organization, 643 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 2: and we've had thousands of calls for help over the 644 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 2: years from general aviation, military and commercial crashes, so it's 645 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 2: not always these major incidents that we see on the 646 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 2: news that we respond to as well. So that's part 647 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 2: of our pairing process too. So we pair people from 648 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 2: general aviation crashes together because it's a little bit of 649 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 2: a different process for them than when they're from a 650 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 2: major incident. That is highly publicized, so there are differences 651 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 2: that we try to make sure to make it as 652 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 2: close to what they went through to have a role 653 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 2: model who can provide a kind of perspective to them. 654 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: Well, you are such an impressive woman, Heidi. Thank you 655 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: so much for coming on the show today. Thank you 656 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: for sharing this. I know this is a very hard 657 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: subject and you have been blessed with the ability to 658 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: tell your story and we were blessed with hearing it today. 659 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: So thank you so much, so much, and thank you 660 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: all for joining us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For 661 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: this episode and others, go to Tutor disonpodcast dot com, 662 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your 663 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: podcasts and join us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast.