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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From how Stop works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen. Today we're talking

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Speaker 1: about psychopaths, kiss Get Safe and UM. I got to

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Speaker 1: thinking about this topic because of a book that journalist

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Speaker 1: John Ronson wrote called The Psychopath Test, and it's released

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Speaker 1: earlier this year, and it looks into the quote unquote

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Speaker 1: madness industry. Um. He talked to a bunch of psychologists

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Speaker 1: and he even talked to some patients, including one who

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Speaker 1: said that he claimed to be a psychopath just to

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Speaker 1: get a lighter sentence handed down from the judge and

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Speaker 1: then he couldn't get out of the asylum or wherever

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Speaker 1: he was. But I just thought it was interesting. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to look at psychopaths, psychopathy. Sorry, it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a tricky word. I wanted to look psychopathy and gender.

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Speaker 1: Who are psychopaths? Where are you more likely to find them?

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Speaker 1: Because they're really not a huge chunk of the population.

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Speaker 1: The statistic is that about one percent of human beings

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Speaker 1: are psychopaths. But you know, where what segment of the

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Speaker 1: population that psychopaths might be more common is in the workplace. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: an estimated four percent of business leaders qualify as psychopaths.

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Speaker 1: And this is nothing. Let's Carolin, let's go ahead and uh,

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Speaker 1: but a disclaimer right now, this is non directed at

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Speaker 1: anyone that you nor I work with. Yeah, nobody get

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Speaker 1: upset there speaking in general. This is coming from a

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Speaker 1: Time magazine reported on this. I think it was springboarding

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Speaker 1: off of the psychopath test by John Ronson, and the

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Speaker 1: estimate was that one in five ceo s probably qualify

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Speaker 1: as psychopaths. Because psychopathy and ruthless capitalism go pretty well together. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you might come across someone who is just a manipulative

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Speaker 1: jerk with no emotions but incredibly charming, but incredibly charming

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Speaker 1: and manipulative. And the thing is that's actually really good

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Speaker 1: in the business world. And there's a lot of talk

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Speaker 1: in studies out there and in Ronson's book about how

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Speaker 1: you know, you might be a jerk and you might

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Speaker 1: not have a lot of genuine close friends, but you're

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Speaker 1: really successful in business because to become a CEO or

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Speaker 1: some some type of high up leader, there has to

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Speaker 1: be a degree of of ruthlessness of willing to being

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Speaker 1: willing to climb your way to the top. And so

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Speaker 1: you know a lot of people are like I like

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Speaker 1: that guy. He doesn't seem to care. He just climbs

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Speaker 1: right up there and steps on people. So it can

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Speaker 1: help help you get ahead if you're a manipulative psychopathic jerk.

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Speaker 1: Right um. They're psychologist Paul babbiac So a two and

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Speaker 1: three American corporate professionals, and evaluated their psychopathic traits using

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Speaker 1: a checklist developed by psychopathy expert Robert Hare and hair Is.

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Speaker 1: Checklist is um the the go to rubric for determining

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Speaker 1: whether or not someone may or may not be a psychopath.

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Speaker 1: Now this does not mean, I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: times we conflate uh psychopaths with the psycho killers, right um.

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Speaker 1: And so it doesn't mean that a lot of ceo

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Speaker 1: s or you know, have a have a knife in

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Speaker 1: their desks. Not everybody's American psycho, right um. But it's

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Speaker 1: those it's those qualities that Caroline was talking about and

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Speaker 1: their natural tendency to be charming. It sounds like they

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Speaker 1: have that perfect balance of office politics charm. You know

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Speaker 1: that that provides the kind of social lubricant that you

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Speaker 1: need to get buy in the workplace with complete and

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Speaker 1: total ruthlessness and and never never a second. Also, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you think about the subprime mortgage fiasco. Uh, John

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Speaker 1: Ronson theorizes that, you know what, some of that could

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Speaker 1: have been propelled by some underlying psychopathy industry, just like,

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Speaker 1: let's just make all the money we can. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter about these people that were hurting. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the survey suggested that psychopaths, despite being able to succeed

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Speaker 1: early on and quickly in the business world, are actually

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Speaker 1: really poor managerial performers. I mean, think about it. Psychopaths

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Speaker 1: cannot truly connect with people. They seem to lack emotion,

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Speaker 1: and so that while they're poor managerial performers there, they

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Speaker 1: are still adept at climbing the corporate ladder because they

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Speaker 1: can cover up weaknesses with all that charm that they

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Speaker 1: throw around. And UM. A similar study to UM when

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Speaker 1: we mentioned before, there's a British study of thirty nine

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Speaker 1: senior managers and chief executives and the study compared survey

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Speaker 1: results from these guys w patients at a hospital for

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Speaker 1: people convicted of series crimes. And it turns out that

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Speaker 1: on certain indicators of psychopathy, the boss's scores either matched

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Speaker 1: or exceeded. Those are the patients, even people who were

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Speaker 1: in this this prison hospital for psychopathic reasons. Yeah, and um,

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Speaker 1: one thing that that emerges in this literature is that

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Speaker 1: a lot of times males are diagnosed as UH psychopathic

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Speaker 1: far more often than females. And a lot of the

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Speaker 1: UH the Psychopathy Checklist developed by Robert Hare and other

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Speaker 1: UM models of psychopathy that we'll talk about are really

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Speaker 1: based almost completely on research just on male psychopaths. So

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Speaker 1: that's kind of where um the gender angle comes in.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about a little bit later and why we

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about it in the podcast, because yes,

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Speaker 1: female psychopaths exists, they just might exist in different kind

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Speaker 1: of ways. But before we get into that one, we

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Speaker 1: go over the Psychopathy Checklist Screening version right. It is

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Speaker 1: an abbreviated and highly correlated version of Robert Hare's Psychopathy

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Speaker 1: Checklist revised, and like you were talking about, as far

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Speaker 1: as gender, it's designed without consideration for gender, psychiatric status,

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Speaker 1: or criminal history. So that is what a lot of

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Speaker 1: these tests are based on, and it's what John Ronson

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Speaker 1: was talking about in his book and it is. It's

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Speaker 1: just it's kind of a checklist for being a psycho.

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Speaker 1: And UM, it's interesting because you know, men have pretty

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Speaker 1: high it's pcl s V, which is psych Psychopathy Checklist

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Speaker 1: Screening Version, there's pcl R, which is Psychopathy Checklist Revise,

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Speaker 1: and men have pretty high scores on the pc L R,

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Speaker 1: whereas men are women I'm sorry, UM, while they do

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Speaker 1: have signs of psychopathy, tend to score lower. So it's

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Speaker 1: like they're not exhibiting the same degree, but they're exhibiting

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Speaker 1: slightly different facets of it. So UM to to determine

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Speaker 1: what those facets are, we have UM from the pc

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Speaker 1: L s V two starting factors, which would be aggressive

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Speaker 1: narcissism and a socially deviant lifestyle. And then from there

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Speaker 1: you have four facets UM interpersonal, affective, lifestyle, and anti

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Speaker 1: social And that antisocial facet is really huge and comes

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Speaker 1: up a lot in psychopathy. UM that all builds into

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Speaker 1: these kind of character traits. And when I first read antisocial,

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Speaker 1: I immediately thought of how I sometimes feel at party.

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Speaker 1: It's just like retreating to a corner. But when we

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Speaker 1: talk about antisocial personality disorder, it doesn't mean that you

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Speaker 1: don't like interacting with people. It's that, um, you're The

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Speaker 1: way you interact with people is uh, you have really

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Speaker 1: no care to actually build up relationship with them. You're

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Speaker 1: only using them, If that makes sense. It's the opposite

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Speaker 1: of being normally social, right, yes, so antisocial and effective.

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Speaker 1: What you mentioned, um, is emotional. It's how you deal

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Speaker 1: with people emotionally. So with that in mind, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about who are the psychopaths. Well, here's something that I

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Speaker 1: found a little disturbing. More likely to be left handed people.

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Speaker 1: I'm left handed, so check that box. Uh, I know,

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Speaker 1: And uh, let's see what else I don't aunt, Krista.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you falling anything else on this list

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Speaker 1: left handed dog owners. I don't own a dog. Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting. They say that psychopaths are more likely to

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Speaker 1: be dog lovers than cat lovers because dogs offer that, um,

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Speaker 1: unconditional love, which is pretty much the only kind of

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Speaker 1: love that psychopaths can handle. And you know what, you know,

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Speaker 1: get off of me. Well, I like dogs, okay, and

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Speaker 1: I do like that. You're you know, who wants a

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Speaker 1: pet that's gonna look at you and be like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna bother me. Hey, you know that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a pet. You don't have to walk multiple times a day.

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Speaker 1: That's true, which is why I don't have a dog.

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Speaker 1: I love dogs, but I don't want to walk it

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Speaker 1: all the time. To you also, hold outside, it's pretty

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Speaker 1: narcissistic of you, Caroline, But isn't it genuine and generous

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Speaker 1: and good hearted? If you and I don't have one,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to build a relationship with a dog,

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Speaker 1: that's okay. According to the Handbook of Psychology, psychopaths are arrogant, superficial, deceitful,

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Speaker 1: and manipulative. And I don't think you and I are

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Speaker 1: all of those things all the time, so I think

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Speaker 1: we're safe. Um Effectively, their emotions are shallow and easily altered,

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Speaker 1: and they're unable to form strong bonds with others. So

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Speaker 1: that goes back to what we talked about earlier about

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Speaker 1: their bad bosses are bad managers. You know, they can

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Speaker 1: tell you what to do and yell at you and stuff,

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Speaker 1: but they're not going to really be able to connect

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Speaker 1: with you on any level. Well, and there was also

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Speaker 1: one study that I saw. I think this was among

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Speaker 1: psychopathic um criminals or people who have been arrested for

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Speaker 1: for something. And they noticed that psychopaths have a harder

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Speaker 1: time reading one's affect on their face. I guess someone's

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Speaker 1: really sad or upset, they just can't really discern that

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Speaker 1: too well. And whatever, you're weak, but they're easily tipped

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Speaker 1: off if you're angry. Interesting, Yeah, they psychopaths are typically

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Speaker 1: completely lacking an empathy, anxiety, and guilt. So you won't

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Speaker 1: see a psychopath really worried about anything or worried what

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Speaker 1: other people think of him or her. And that's why

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Speaker 1: you might have someone like Ted Bundy, for instance, a

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Speaker 1: serial killer who might just continue murdering women with no

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Speaker 1: remorse whatsoever. Right, but not all. That's one of the

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Speaker 1: myths that has talked about um in the two thousand

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Speaker 1: seven Scientific American article that all psychopaths are violent. They

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Speaker 1: are not, and not all violent people are psychopaths. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they made a good distinction between someone like Ted Bundy

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Speaker 1: and someone like David Berkowitz, who was the son of

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Speaker 1: Sam who believed that speaking of dogs, that his neighbor's

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Speaker 1: dog was sending him messages to go out and kill people. Berkowitz,

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Speaker 1: although like Ted Bunny, might have been killing a bunch

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Speaker 1: of folks. He would not be considered a psychopath because

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Speaker 1: he was clearly completely delusional and out of touch with reality,

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Speaker 1: whereas psychopaths um, whether they're violent or not, often have

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Speaker 1: a very a far more pragmatic kind of contact with

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Speaker 1: with reality. Correct. Yeah, yes, And there's also the myth

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Speaker 1: that psychopathy is untreatable. While some of the you know,

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Speaker 1: more entrenched aspects of it might not be treatable, that

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Speaker 1: the criminal, the criminal aspect of it can be treatable

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Speaker 1: in therapy. So it's not like you can't send a

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Speaker 1: psychopath to see a therapist. They can talk to a

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Speaker 1: professional and maybe try to avoid doing crazy things. But

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because there is a question about when this

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Speaker 1: stuff emerges. Um, there's there's a question of, um, are

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Speaker 1: you born a psychopath? And you just get worse and worse.

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Speaker 1: But it's interesting because, um, the way you're raised can

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Speaker 1: really make a difference. Oh, absolutely if you are. Some

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Speaker 1: of these researchers are saying that if you are quote

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Speaker 1: unquote born a psychopath and you're raised in a violent, abusive,

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Speaker 1: unsupportive home, that you are likely going to end up

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Speaker 1: going to jail. But if you are a born psychopath

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Speaker 1: who is raised and loving, supportive family. You get a

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Speaker 1: good education, you do all this stuff, you might end

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Speaker 1: up in the business world. You could be one of

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Speaker 1: those You're gonna go to a nice, you know, upscale school,

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Speaker 1: get a good education, and go be a CEO somewhere. Well,

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Speaker 1: that nature nurtured debate is also where UM we come

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Speaker 1: up against the difference between psychopathy versus sociopathy UM, or

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Speaker 1: a psychopath versus a sociopath, because a lot of times

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Speaker 1: psychopath and sociopath are used interchangeably. UM. But it seems

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Speaker 1: like the most basic difference, uh, that that we can

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Speaker 1: lay down is that UM, sociopaths are people who are

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Speaker 1: more UM driven to those kind of deviant behaviors because

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Speaker 1: of that that environmental impact, whereas it seems like psychopaths

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Speaker 1: UM are it's a little more nature driven. They're sort

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Speaker 1: of born that way. UM. And uh one one quick

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Speaker 1: as side. A couple of hallmarks of possible sociopathy in

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Speaker 1: childhood is um recurrent bedwedding, which I didn't really understand

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Speaker 1: and UM and also cruelty to animals. Yeah, that's something

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's something that everybody kind of latches onto,

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Speaker 1: like Oh, if the kid hurts animals, he's going to

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Speaker 1: be a serial killer. But yeah, so that's interesting. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, though, a lot of experts will

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Speaker 1: argue that since your personality doesn't really crystallize until you mature,

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Speaker 1: it's not um a good idea to try and diagnose

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Speaker 1: children or even adolescence as um as psychopaths. One thing

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Speaker 1: I read is that in rare cases where they've been

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Speaker 1: able to sort of pinpoint um conduct issues in children,

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Speaker 1: it seems like kids with early onset conduct issues seemed

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Speaker 1: to be boys, and and those conduct issues translate into

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Speaker 1: later uh psychopathy or later you know, just playing issues,

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Speaker 1: whereas females don't tend to have that early onset of

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Speaker 1: like being a little kid and people being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's gonna be crazy. Um, it's more adolescent onset for

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Speaker 1: for girls that they've noticed translates into later uh psychopathic behavior.

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Speaker 1: So the clinical definition of psychopathy goes back to nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty one um in a medical college of Georgia's psychiatrists

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Speaker 1: named Hervey M. Checkley, who wrote The Mask of Sanity,

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Speaker 1: which was one of the first pieces of literature to

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Speaker 1: really describe um this pathology, right and he made the

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Speaker 1: point that psychopaths make a good and first impression, which

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Speaker 1: we've talked about and can strike strangers is completely normal. Yeah, Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: they're self centered, dishonest, and undependable. Right, And there was

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Speaker 1: UM and it reminds me of another study because they're

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Speaker 1: there's really been a lot of studies on on psychopaths

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Speaker 1: in romantic relationships, and it's always heterosexual males UM and

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Speaker 1: female quote unquote victims of these psychopathic tendencies who are

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Speaker 1: incredibly charming and they are total pathological liars and um

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Speaker 1: completely emotionally and sometimes will physically abuse these women. And

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Speaker 1: uh but yeah, they at first that the women have

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Speaker 1: no no idea that they are dealing with a psychopath. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is frightening. And you know, I even that they

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Speaker 1: might not even know for twenty years. Sure you might

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Speaker 1: just think, well, he's got a forceful personality. But um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about the Scientific American Art article

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Speaker 1: and the writers Scott, Lillianfield and hell Arkowitz argue with

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Speaker 1: traditional UM research that says that psychopathy is synonymous with

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Speaker 1: UM anti social personality disorder and other like sociopathy. UM.

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Speaker 1: They say that it's not that research indicates that the

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Speaker 1: these disorders only overlap moderately. Well, and there was a

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Speaker 1: big controversy too because um in the Carol and correct

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Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, But in the newest edition of

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Speaker 1: the D s M Manual, they don't include psychopathy as

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Speaker 1: its own disorder. It's all, um, umbrella under antisocial personality disorder. Correct,

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Speaker 1: and the diagnostic criteria criteria are not all the same.

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Speaker 1: But um, the writers of this latest edition of the

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Speaker 1: manual just says that, yeah, psychopathy calls under antisocial, dissocial

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Speaker 1: and sociopathic personality disorders. But so here's the question that

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Speaker 1: we've been meaning to get to as we've laid this

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Speaker 1: foundation of what psychopathy is. Uh, And the question is

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Speaker 1: why are men so more commonly diagnosed certainly characterized as psychopaths? Right? Well,

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Speaker 1: it seems like, you know, I mentioned that men score

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Speaker 1: higher on the pcl R test and and women have

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Speaker 1: slightly lower scores. But psychopathy and female um samples quote

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Speaker 1: unquote samples is associated with personality measures selected to reflect

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Speaker 1: the glib, grandiose, callous, and unempathetic characterizations. So we're just

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Speaker 1: maybe being characterized slightly different in our expressions of psychopathy.

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Speaker 1: Than men are, so in studies of incarcerated women, they

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Speaker 1: tend to demonstrate lower rates of that antisocial personality disorder,

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Speaker 1: which is one of the hallmarks of psychopathy in men,

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Speaker 1: but they have higher rates of borderline personality disorder and

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Speaker 1: histrionic personality disorder. So to me, it makes sense that

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Speaker 1: UM that that there isn't a perfect corey or correspondence

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Speaker 1: between male and female manifestations of psychopathy, since historically all

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Speaker 1: of that clinical literature on psychopaths is based on observations

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Speaker 1: from male patients. Right and several researchers have called for

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Speaker 1: perhaps more specific tests for for not only for gender,

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Speaker 1: but also for age, because there have been a lot

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Speaker 1: of studies on adolescent inmates, young men, and young women

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Speaker 1: who are incarcerated UM and speaking of being incarcerated after

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Speaker 1: they get out of the joint, men and women show

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Speaker 1: comparable rates of violence, but there are differences according to gender.

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Speaker 1: Women tend to be violent in the home and towards

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Speaker 1: family members. They inflict less serious injury and are less

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Speaker 1: often arrested for their violent behavior. UM. Women diagnosed with

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Speaker 1: antisocial personality disorder, we're more likely than men with a

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Speaker 1: disorder to be irresponsible as parents to engage in prostitution

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Speaker 1: and to have been physically violent against sex partners and children.

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Speaker 1: And as far as prostitution goes, risk taking, really risky

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Speaker 1: behavior is part of psychopathy. So women are more likely

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Speaker 1: to be like, whoo, I'm just gonna go be a

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Speaker 1: frost dope seven men are so not that we should

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Speaker 1: say whoo, no, not at all, Okay, Um, Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: the interpersonal context and the family become the major focus

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Speaker 1: of women's health problems. So there's been the suggestion that

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Speaker 1: certain disorders that are diagnosed more commonly in women, like

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Speaker 1: you mentioned borderline personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder may represent

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Speaker 1: our particular expression. So we're just doing it differently. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems like, um, male psychopaths probably uh get the higher,

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Speaker 1: more public profile because um they're more word with their

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Speaker 1: expressions of it, whereas psychopathy and females might be a

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Speaker 1: little more insidious and it's focused very tightly on their

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Speaker 1: closest social networks, which can also make it even more

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Speaker 1: damaging to those people, whether they are partners or children

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Speaker 1: or close friends and family. Um, who might be the

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Speaker 1: victims of that kind of uh psychopathic behavior, Right, The

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Speaker 1: Handbook of Psychopathy, I mean has a really excellent view

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Speaker 1: on all this stuff. I mean, it really makes it

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Speaker 1: all makes sense. I mean, it is a Handbook of psychopathy,

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Speaker 1: so I would have the word. But um, you know,

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Speaker 1: they call for the the whole body of research that

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Speaker 1: we have done, that we have available to us on socialization,

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Speaker 1: sex roles, biological developmental differences between genders, all of the

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Speaker 1: stuff that we've studied about you know, men and women,

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Speaker 1: mars and venus we should apply to studying mental disorders

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Speaker 1: and psychopathy because you know, it's studies have shown that

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Speaker 1: overall the pcl R and the pc L s V

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Speaker 1: are are pretty good indicators for both men and women.

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Speaker 1: But you know, since women score slightly differently, maybe we

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Speaker 1: should have more specific ways to look at them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and um, just speaking about the gender differences too, isn't

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Speaker 1: another uh more biological hallmark of psychopathies higher levels of testosterone.

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Speaker 1: There are questions too, as to whether or not you

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Speaker 1: can use MRI scans to uh to pinpoint psychopathy in

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Speaker 1: the brain and how individual brains work. So it seems

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Speaker 1: like even though we've been looking at psychopathy since n one,

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Speaker 1: with the publication of the mask of sanity. The study

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Speaker 1: is still kind of in its infancy in a way

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Speaker 1: because we haven't figured out why these gender differences exist,

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Speaker 1: and it's still kind of limited to these, uh, these

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Speaker 1: these checklists. Maybe we should have something better than asking

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Speaker 1: the psychopath if you the psychopath right, since they tend

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Speaker 1: to lie constantly manipulate that. The researchers are like, oh gosh,

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Speaker 1: he was so well ab but know that was one

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Speaker 1: of the things a lot of times, UM, psychopathic inmates

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Speaker 1: are better than non psychopathic inmates and getting out of

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Speaker 1: jail or getting their sentences reduced because they're like, look,

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Speaker 1: how well behaved nine exactly, because they can wear the

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Speaker 1: mask of sanity and talk their way out of it.

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Speaker 1: Her VM check le see better things are coming out

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Speaker 1: of Augusta than just the Master's tournament. Um, speaking of

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Speaker 1: inmates again, because you know it's yeah, I'm good with

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Speaker 1: some you know gold mine. A Swedish study of offenders

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Speaker 1: found gender differences in anti social behavior, with female psychopaths

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Speaker 1: displaying significantly more lying, deceitfulness, and lack of control, and

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Speaker 1: male psychopaths in general were more antisocial. Though, and I

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Speaker 1: want to just talk about briefly, um, antisocial personality disorder,

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Speaker 1: because like you said, it's not sitting in a corner

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Speaker 1: and with your arms crossed and not wanting to join

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Speaker 1: the party. Um, it's it's very closely tied in with psychopathy.

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Speaker 1: So it's I can understand why the d s M

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Speaker 1: has psychopathy sort of under that umbrella. UM, But it's

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Speaker 1: a mental health condition in which a person has a

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Speaker 1: long term pattern of manipulating, exploiting, or violating the rights

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Speaker 1: of others, and the behavior is often criminal. And it's interesting, uh,

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Speaker 1: the symptoms of psychopathy and UM antisocial personality disorder. In

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Speaker 1: a study in the European journal Personality in two thousand

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Speaker 1: nine found that those disorders were negatively associated with conscientiousness

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Speaker 1: and agreeableness in addition to warmth this is a great person,

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Speaker 1: And they're positively associated with scores on anger and hostility,

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Speaker 1: impulsiveness and excitement seeking. Yet a lot of times they

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Speaker 1: can be that that that combination, which when you read

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Speaker 1: it like that, growing sounds like quite a repulsive character,

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Speaker 1: not someone that we would be uh too fond of,

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Speaker 1: and yet a lot of times um. One of the

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Speaker 1: evolutionary explanations for this psychopathic behavior is that that parasitic

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Speaker 1: kind of pathology is almost a survival tool for these people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they just kind of have that that whole empathy chip

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Speaker 1: completely missing and tossing out. One more study to demonstrate

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Speaker 1: how these gender differences not only exists in the adult population,

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Speaker 1: but also um in adolescents. This is a two thousand

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Speaker 1: nine study from the University of Cologne that examined adolescent

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Speaker 1: female and male detainees and highlighted those different psychopathic dimensions

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Speaker 1: between the The younger male and female delinquents. Right, males

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Speaker 1: tended to show higher scores for externalizing behavior and psychopathic dimensions.

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Speaker 1: There's no association really found between psychopathic behavior and suicidal behavior,

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Speaker 1: and there is a negative relationship, and I mentioned this

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Speaker 1: earlierbout anxiety. There's a negative relation to the psychop but

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Speaker 1: the total score regarding ancient anxious depressive behavior, they're they're

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Speaker 1: not really worried, They're they're they're fine, um. Whereas delinquent

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Speaker 1: females showed higher internalizing problem scores and had a positive

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Speaker 1: relationship between suicidal behavior and their total score, as well

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Speaker 1: as their effective and antisocial dimensions. So it seems like

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Speaker 1: women or these young women that they studied were more

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Speaker 1: likely to internalize their problems, you know, their mental issues,

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Speaker 1: how they feel about the world, and we're more likely

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Speaker 1: to consider suicide. So we've talked a lot about about

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Speaker 1: science and all of these these clinical terms UM and

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Speaker 1: and really we're, like I said, we we still haven't

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Speaker 1: figured out why exactly these gender differences exist, whether it

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Speaker 1: has to do with socialization, what part biology plays, um

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Speaker 1: and how exactly to sets out all of those all

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Speaker 1: of those variations between male and female psychopaths. But in

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Speaker 1: the mean time, I did find um man, I said,

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Speaker 1: one more study. But here's a final one and it's

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Speaker 1: related to lying. Oh no, I'm left um but but

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Speaker 1: but this is a this is about psychopaths, female psychopaths

404
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Speaker 1: in fiction. So in case uh any listeners out there

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Speaker 1: want to get a sense of of what a female

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Speaker 1: psychopath looks like, here are a few characters that you could, uh,

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00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: you could look at, such as Lady macbeth um the

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Speaker 1: stepmother and stepsisters in Grimm's Cinderella also called out Vita

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Speaker 1: Pierce from Mildred Pierce, which was recently made into a

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Speaker 1: mini series and Evan rachel Wood played Vita. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to see that. Actually it was an HPO mini series. Um.

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Speaker 1: Also for fans of his dark materials, Marissa Culter would

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Speaker 1: also constitute a psychopath and Phyllis nerd nerd Linger in

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Speaker 1: a double indemnity for any silver screen fans out there,

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Speaker 1: Barbara Stanwick's character who yeah, total psychopath? Um? So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: have you encountered any psychopaths? Listeners? Are you a psychopath?

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Speaker 1: You probably won't tell us if you are, because you're

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Speaker 1: probably like, I am so charming, but I don't know

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Speaker 1: what they're talking about. It did, but what I what

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Speaker 1: I was saying that earlier about the psychopaths and romantic

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Speaker 1: relationships does seem to be a common theme if you

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Speaker 1: if you will google women psychopaths, a lot of what

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Speaker 1: comes up is not about women who are psychopaths, but

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Speaker 1: women who have dated psychopaths. Yeah, so why doesn't call

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00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean he's a psychopath? Right? But you know,

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00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: if if there's some other if any of this sounds

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00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: familiar to you, maybe you're dating a psychopath. Perhaps. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The Peter Stars guards uh character in an Education seems

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00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: to be pretty prototypical kind of male intersexual psychopath. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we hope that you have enjoyed this and um, Now,

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00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: there was one thing that uh that John Ronson, who

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Speaker 1: wrote The Psychopath, told Time magazine, and that's once you

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00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: become aware of the hallmarks of psychopathy, it starts to

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00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: seem like you are surrounded by psychopaths. Yeah, which you know,

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00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: maybe you are, I don't know where you are, but

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00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: but incredibly common in the workplace. And I bet there

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00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: are a lot of listeners out there nodding and thinking

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00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: I've worked for one of those. Uh. And I really

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00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: wish that our outro could be a little bit of

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00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: talking heads too bad. Instead, we will read a couple

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00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: of emails written to our address, mom stuff at how

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00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: steph works dot com. Okay, this is an email from

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00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: David about our sex Ed podcast. He said, I want

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00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: to fill you in on some of my sex said

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00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: in Canada. First introduction came from the talk with my

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00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: dad and the usual conversations with friends. In grade seven

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00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: and eight, the education was pretty lacking except for one thing.

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00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,479
Speaker 1: Open theater. This was a group composed of grade eight

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00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: through ten students who came to the school to perform

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00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: a variety of skits about sex. It was very funny.

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00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: I seem to remember one about Luke Skywalker playing with

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00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: his quote unquote lightsaber. Funny stuff and probably one of

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00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: the best ways to teach kids about sex. Cover everything

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00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: and just be honest. And thanks to everyone to who

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00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: has shared your sex ad stories on Facebook. There's a

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00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: great collection over there if you want to go check

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00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: that out and add your own. We'd love to hear

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00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: from you, and again, if you want to send us

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00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: an email, the addresses mom Stuff at how stuff Works

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00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: dot com and you can also follow us on Twitter

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00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: at Mom's Stuff podcast, and of course you can read

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00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: the blog during the week. It's stuff Mom Never Told

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00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: You at how Stuff Works dot com. Be sure to

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00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.

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00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most

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00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow the house. Stuff Works

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00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: iPhone out how the Ride. Download it today on iTunes.

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00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready, are you