WEBVTT - Listener Mail: Round Perdition's Flames 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.040 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.640 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind listener Mail. 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:15.400 My name is Robert Lamb. 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:19.120 And I am Joe McCormick. And on listener Mail episodes, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:21.200 we read back some of the messages that you have 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.400 sent into the Stuff to Blow your Mind email address. 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:26.960 If you've never gotten in touch before and you would 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:29.240 like to, why not give it a try this week? 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.479 You can write us at contact at stuff to Blow 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.080 your Mind dot com. We appreciate messages of all types, 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.760 especially if you have something to add to a topic 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.680 we've recently talked about on the show. If you have 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.920 just something interesting you want to share with us, whether 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.879 even if it's totally random, that's always fine. If you 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.320 have corrections, if you have comments, if you have questions, 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:53.840 if you want to suggest a topic for the future, 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:57.000 or suggest a movie for Weird House Cinema, whatever it is, 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.080 send it our way contact at stuff to Blow your 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.080 dot com. And if you write in, there is a 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:05.720 chance that your message may be featured on a future 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:07.440 listener Mail episode like this one. 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:09.639 That's right, We read all of it. We don't always 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.200 have time to respond directly to it and not everything 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:16.479 gets onto the podcast, obviously, but we will read anything 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:17.039 you said us. 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.199 A very weird house heavy batch this time, which is fine, 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.919 so be it. But I think first maybe we should 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.679 get into some responses to our episodes of Star Trek Week. 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.560 That's right, We're just coming off of Star Trek Week, 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.840 the first Star Trek Week celebrated here on stuff to 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.039 blow your mind. But if folks loved it, we'll come 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:39.119 back and do it again next year. 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.240 All right, rob do you mind if I do this 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:42.319 one from Elena? 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.600 Yes, Elena, that you do mind? Well, I do mind, 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:50.520 but I'm swallowing my feelings on this one. 0:01:51.200 --> 0:02:01.600 Right, Okay, This is from Elena. Subject line Turkish Star Trek. Hello, 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.600 Robert and Joe. I just listened to the episode about 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:08.160 the Star Trek Salt Monster, one of the most memorable 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.720 monster designs in the show in my opinion, and the 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.600 creepy moths. This is referencing the first of two core 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.440 episodes we did during Star Trek Week, where we talked 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.520 about the first ever episode of Star Trek, the first 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.959 one ever on TV called The Man Trap, which was 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.120 about a salt vampire, a shape shifting creature that sucked 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:31.359 the salt out of your body through with like suckers 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.000 that attached to the face, and that, of course led 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.680 us to a biology conversation about moths that in various 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:41.160 ways will parasitize you for salt, will suck salt from 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.560 your tears or even from your blood. So Elena goes 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.919 on to say it immediately reminded me of oh Mayer 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:52.359 the Tourist in Star Trek, a nineteen seventy three Turkish film. 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.160 It's a parody movie that takes major plot inspiration from 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.400 the Man Trap episode years ago. I managed to watch 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.040 it with English subtitles and it was a fun experience. 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:06.080 I also recall scenes borrowed from other notable episodes, like 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.760 a fight scene between Kirk and what was supposed to 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:12.919 be the Gorn Rob. I dug up some screenshots from 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.160 Omer the Tourist in Star Trek. I attached them in 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.520 the outline for you to see. Here, we have a 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.240 I think this is supposed to be Spock in a 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.200 yellow shirt, but he does have the pointy years in 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.040 Spock's hair, so I think that's him. We got some 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.200 like muscly shirtless guy in a speedo. I don't know 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.280 what that's supposed to be. The poster appears to have 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:35.720 Godzilla on it. I don't know if that's a mashup 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:36.960 of Godzilla and Gorn. 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:39.200 Yeah, some sort of fire breathing reptile. 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.640 And also some characters standing around in what might be 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:48.400 Roman ruins that they're using as a set here. Yeah, yeah, 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:52.000 that's an interesting choice. But also having some Star Trek 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.480 uniforms in colors that I don't remember from the show, 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.320 like we've got a you know, you've got your red 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:58.840 shirts and you've got your yellow shirts. Here we have 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.040 a brown shirt and then kind of a teal green skirt. 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this looks interesting. I have to 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.240 admit this one was not on my radar. I'm familiar 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.400 by reputation with like Turkish Star Wars and some other 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:19.839 b cinema examples from Turkish film, and there are a 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:24.440 few Turkish movies that are still on the list for 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.159 Weird House Cinema. Oh yeah, but we haven't really gotten 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.479 around to them just yet. We'll have to remedy that 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:30.320 in the months ahead. 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.680 Elena says. Since it was released before Star Trek the 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.680 Motion Picture, it's technically the first movie set in the 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:41.560 Star Trek universe. Amazing. This is probably too strange even 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.039 for weird house cinema. Oh, Elena, you should listen this Friday, 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.719 by the way, but I wanted to share this oddity 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.440 from Turkish cinema anyway, Elena. 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.159 This is exactly the sort of weird house cinema listener 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.039 mail I like to receive. Yeah, clue me in about 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.279 something weird out there that was totally not on my radar. 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:01.040 Exactly. Thank you so much. 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.800 All right. We also heard from Jared Jared Wrightson and 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.320 says thank you for Star Trek week. Listening to the 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.000 episodes really brought back memories of sitting around the TV 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.680 watching Star Trek with my dad, both the original series 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.839 and the next generation. Sadly, he passed away due to 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.560 complications of COVID in twenty twenty, but this week's episode 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.479 brought back some great memories of him. My dad was 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.479 a diehard Trekie, so much so that I did not 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.039 watch a Star Wars movie until I was an adult, 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.920 as it was considered not as good in our house. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.280 I think his love for Star Trek was influenced by 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.480 his love of other non sci fi shows such as 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.360 westerns and cereals. Such as Bonanza and gun Smoke. Something 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.080 about the portrayal of flawed characters coming together to do 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.680 what was right struck a chord with him and for me, 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.520 really formed a perspective on life that I did not 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.440 fully recognize until adulthood. As an adult, I have learned 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.520 what a cultural stepping stone Star Trek truly was, and 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.480 knowing when and where my father grew up in rural Appalachia, 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.760 watching shows like Star Trek would have been considered progressive 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.799 for the time and place, with different ethnicities being portrayed 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.839 and given rank and importance on the crew. Star Trek's 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.240 decision to step in that direction help the generation of 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.440 TV watchers become more accepting of others, even if they 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.960 were aliens. Thanks again, Live Long and prosper Jared. 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:19.520 Yeah, I think this is a common reception experience that 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.280 the people report, even outside of not just being in 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:23.920 rural Appalachia, I mean all over. 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:27.960 I think, yeah, absolutely. And also the connection to Westerns 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.280 is definitely worth noting as well. I don't know how 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:34.400 much we stress that in our episodes during Star Trek Week, 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.880 but Star Trek does come out of the world of 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.160 TV Westerns in many respects. I mean a lot of 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.560 the players, of course, were in westerns. Many of the 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.680 Riders had worked in westerns, and a good bit of 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.160 that Western DNA as president in the show. 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.520 I think you can say that about Star Wars as well. 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.240 I mean, yeah, yeah, some ways, it's got some gunslinger 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:56.039 stuff in there. 0:06:56.240 --> 0:07:00.240 I mean, really, the TV and film westerns cap a 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:02.960 huge shadow. I mean, you hear folks like John Carpenter 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.040 for instance, Yeah, you know, very few of his films 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:07.560 are one hundred percent Westerns. I think he has like 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:12.080 what one full blown Western in the filmography, but he 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:17.040 credits Westerns like across his filmography for being a heavy 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.760 influence on at least the sort of the form and 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:20.800 function of the pictures. 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:22.920 That's right. I think for a lot of the directors 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:27.680 working in roughly that generation growing up with Westerns, it 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:29.800 was just it was an influence on all of them, 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.400 even if it wasn't totally their thing. So it's kind 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.040 of like, even if you're not a diehard Star Wars 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.560 or Star Trek fan, you know, most people making films 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.920 coming up nowadays have some of that influence on their childhood, 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.280 right right, all right. This next message is from Bert 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.160 Bert says, Hey, Robert and Joe love the show. It 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.800 keeps the long drives between job sites interesting. If you 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.200 think I have some worthwhile thoughts here, I'd be honored 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.760 if you include it in one of your listener mail episodes. 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:06.080 I was listening to the Transporters and Consciousness Star Trek 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.840 episode and I thought that the swamp Man thought experiment 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:13.080 was interesting but flawed. A quick refresher. This is the 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:18.520 thought experiment by the philosopher Donald Davidson, which was saying, Okay, 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:20.720 imagine I go out walking in a swamp. I get 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.559 struck by lightning. My body is completely obliterated, there's nothing left, 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.120 and just by coincidence, a tree nearby is also struck 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.520 by lightning, and it gets turned into an exact atom 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.600 for Adam replica of my body, and it can go 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.640 about my business and do everything I do. It acts 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.000 exactly as I would in every scenario. It's a perfect 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:44.679 copy of me. But Davidson's argument was, despite the fact 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.520 that swamp man is a perfect copy of me and 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.720 can behave exactly as I would, it actually does not 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:55.320 have thoughts and the signifiers of its mental activity that 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.199 it thinks, you know when it thinks about a dog. 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.439 This is not really about adult because it has never 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.120 met a dog. So it was interrogating the idea of 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:09.160 what the aboutness of our thoughts really is. So Bert's 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:13.640 response continues, the Swampman copy might never have experienced a 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:17.600 dog or the original version's friend John, but it has 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.600 all of the memories from the original. It has the 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.400 memories of the experience, the memories of interactions with other minds, 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.600 the memories of petting the dog. It has the knowledge 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:31.120 and the feeling of what the experiences were like. Without 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.680 that knowledge, it would not have the image or concept 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.440 of what a dog or a friend is. So the 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:40.800 recreated Swampman or Spock or McCoy is created a thinking 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.640 being with the full knowledge and experience of what the 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.440 original new and experienced. Yeah, Bert, I think this is 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.319 a common response, and this is what a lot of 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.760 Davidson's critics would argue. And this is sort of along 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.640 the lines of what Daniel Dinnett was arguing in response 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.959 to the idea. But Bert goes on to say, there 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.280 is a second flaw. If this Sampman did not have 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.920 the connections to understand what a dog or a friend 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:05.959 or a coffee cup is then he would not be 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.560 able to speak intelligently. He might call a dog a rocket, 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.200 or a friend a dandelion, but it's extremely unlikely he 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:17.120 could formulate a legible sentence. I think Davidson and Dinnett 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:20.480 we're both off the mark on this one. Both Davidson, 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.720 Swampman and Dinnet's objections to it are much more applicable 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.559 to large language model ais. An AI can be programmed 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:31.680 with definitions and with photos describing to it what things are, 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:37.640 but it will have no actual experience, not even secondhand experience. 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.800 It can know, but until it actually has the experience, 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:46.040 it cannot truly understand. But as Dinnet points out, if 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.200 it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.880 looks like a duck, most people would say it's a duck, 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:55.200 which changes the question from is an AI thinking before 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:59.439 it experiences? To are there any differences between what an 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:04.240 aides before it experiences and what it does after? It 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.800 also adds the question if there are, do the differences matter? 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.640 That's probably more than long enough for one email. Hope 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:12.680 you found it interesting, bert. 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.160 Oh, Yes, absolutely, thanks for writing in Bertie. We touched 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:21.560 on how this philosophical discussion may or may not apply 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.400 to AI a little bit in the episode, but you know, clearly, 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.720 as you point out here, you can really go into 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:29.240 the deep end on this one as well. 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:34.360 Yeah, I think this is actually a very good question. Clearly, 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:40.720 we learn from experience, and is there some quality, some 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:45.080 important quality to the nature of our experience which enables 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.920 us to learn and understand which cannot really be achieved 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:54.640 by feeding a machine like discrete, separate little images that 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.280 are not actually part of a continuous experience like we 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:02.000 believe we have so like our experience of seeing and 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.120 interacting with dogs throughout our life, is there something actually 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:10.199 importantly different about that than just like having a large 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.760 language model associate the word dog and other words in 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.679 a cloud around the word dog with lots, you know, 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.600 millions of different pictures of dogs. Is there actually something 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.960 importantly different there in those two different kinds of learning. 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.040 I don't know exactly what it would be, but it 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.640 strikes me as totally plausible that there's something important missing 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.760 that contributes to what we mean when we say understanding 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.080 that's missing from the training model of these AIS, but 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.280 is present in the human beings experience of the world. 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.760 Yeah, absolutely, I mean we have skin in the game, 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:50.000 and there are different ways to interpret how that applies. 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:57.520 All right, up, next we go. We got a very 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.199 nice email from Alec, who writes in and says, Hi, 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.040 Robert Joe at all. My name is Olt. I'm a 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.680 grad student at U Chicago studying the evolution and mechanics 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.200 of the mammal middle ear. I am defending later this 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.640 fall and have been doing a lot of reflecting on 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.040 the things that have kept my love of science alive, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.960 and thus wanted to extend my deep gratitude for your show. 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.160 I have been listening since I was an undergrad, and 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.240 your topics and the way you approach your topics, particularly 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.760 your deep dives into how fictional organisms would function based 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.520 on real biology, have always kept my basic curiosity and 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.520 need to learn alive, even against grad school burnout. I 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.199 don't think it is an exaggeration to say the stuff 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.360 to Blow your mind podcast has played a pivotal role 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.040 in my development as a scientist. Thank you for the 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.360 great work you do. Cheers Alec. At ps. Have you 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.240 considered an episode on why elves, vulcans, etc. Have powenty 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.920 years from the folklore perspective. Where does that originate from 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.040 a biological perspective? What's the adaptive significance? 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.840 Great questions? Has this come up on the show before? 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:02.559 I would be surprised if it hadn't. 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.760 I was actually researching this a little bit prior to 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.160 Star Trek week because I was considering it as a topic. 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.559 So may come back to this sooner rather than later. 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.120 But also, Alex, thank you so much for the message. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:20.040 This kind of stuff, it feels so nice, warms my heart. It. Yeah, 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.480 it really really does mean a lot to hear things 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.720 like this, So thank you so much, and best of 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:37.600 luck with your thesis or dissertation defense. All right, this 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.520 next message, let's do some of the responses to our 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:45.960 Saint Swithin episode. This one comes from Francois subject line 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:50.600 about Saint Swithin's revenge and apologies in advance. I'm gonna 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.640 have to read some French in this one. My pronunciation, 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.640 I'm sure is going to be abysmal, but I'll do 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.200 my best, Francois says, Dear Robert and Joe, I just 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.040 listened to your podcas cast about Saint Swithin, and when 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.280 you read the saying Saint Swithin's day. If thou dost 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.960 reign for forty days, it will remain Saint Swithin's day. 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.840 If thou be fair for forty days, twill reign ne 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:17.280 mere and Francois says, I thought, oh, it is an 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:22.600 Irish Saint Medard. Imagine my delight when you referenced our 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.560 Saint Medard. This is easily the second most used meteorological 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.880 saying in France. However, the version you used is different 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.160 from the one I know, and because I heard it 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:36.640 multiple times on TV, it is the official version. It 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:41.560 says see plu a la Saint Medard il pluvera forty 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:46.280 jour plutard a muang ke la sam Barnabie luis coup 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:52.480 le erb sioux lapide and so Francois here has a translation, 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.720 which is, if it rains on Saint Medardas day, it 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.760 will rain forty days later, unless Saint Barnabas pulls the 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:04.400 r from below his feet, literally cuts the grass beneath 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:08.920 his feet. Francois says, this side steps the issue of 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.160 forty days of uninterrupted rain. Oh yeah, as we discussed 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:16.000 in the episode, that that's totally very implausible and that's 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:20.000 basically never gonna happen. It side steps the issue of 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.160 forty days of uninterrupted rain. It just says that if 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.120 it rains on the eighth of June, it will rain 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:30.760 on the eleventh or eighteenth of July, a much likelier coincidence. 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.960 I must admit that I found the version you used 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:38.160 is the one on Catholic dot net. In English, in 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.800 case you wonder, the most used meteorological saying in France 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:47.920 is Noel albacon paquet autisson meaning Christmas on the balcony, 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:52.680 Easter by the fire, often nowadays parodied as a niege, 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:58.000 and November Noel and December meaning snow in November, Christmas 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:02.720 in December. Thank you for your podcast, best regards, Francois 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:07.600 and then final ps, still awaiting your take on Podawn, which, 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.000 by the way, that's the French title of Donkey Skin 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.840 with Catherine Deneuve. We will get there eventually. It's on 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:15.160 the list, Yes. 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.400 I am. I have to say. It looks like as 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.280 of this Friday we will already be diving into our 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.679 horror selections for October. But usually our pattern is that 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:28.760 once we get out of October, it's time for a 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:32.439 little palate cleansing, so maybe a little fantasy and definitely 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.199 a little noir. So I don't know, maybe that'll be 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:36.280 the time of donkey skin. 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.600 M Yeah, but I like your parody saying about December, 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:42.560 if I understand it correctly, by the way I mean. 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:44.760 It is often a joke we have around here in 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.000 the American Southeast that like, yeah, it's going to be 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.159 hot on Christmas Day, which it sometimes is. 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.000 All Right, This next one comes to us from Hugh. 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:01.000 Hugh says Robert, Joe and JJ. Hello there. It's been 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:02.680 a while since I've written. You guys have been doing 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:04.919 such a great job that I have had few questions 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.359 and little of use to add. Your recent episode on 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.560 Saint Swiven made me think of that an exploration of 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.719 the history of sainthood might be an interesting subject. It 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.680 turns out that during the early Middle Ages there were 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:20.280 many many local, regional, and magical saints chosen by communities 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.840 large and small. The official saint was part of the 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.320 Church's move to homogenize doctrine and consolidate power during the 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.480 Late Middle Ages. In early modern times, this is all 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:31.919 as far as I can remember, you understand, but you 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:33.960 get the idea keep up the good work here. 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.399 Oh that's interesting, So, Hugh, if I understand you, right, 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.160 the idea is that sainthood begins as a more grassroots 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.800 or organic phenomenon, and then later there's the idea of 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.520 the church should really be, you know, having a system 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.880 to decide who is and isn't a saint, which would 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.160 play into Saint Swithin by the way, because as we discussed, 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.000 he's called Saint Swithin, but he was never actually officially 0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.359 canonized by the Catholic Church and not an official Catholics. 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.520 Right right, Yeah, yeah, So it's certainly a fascinating topic. 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:06.520 It would just be a matter of figuring out the 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.399 exact sort of the exact form the question takes. I 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.280 guess for treatment on stuff to blow your mind, but 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.280 I'm always fascinated by this sort of topic. So yeah, 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:17.280 well I've put it on the list. 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.800 I mean, we could look at it in a larger sense, 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.159 going just beyond the Catholic thing of like who is holy? 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.760 Like why do we decide that certain people are holy? Yeah? 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:31.920 And then what's left of the real person once we've 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.200 made them holy? Yeah. We got into that a little 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:39.720 bit and two previous episodes where we talked about saints. Yeah, 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.760 so yeah, this is this topic probably has legs. 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.199 All right. This next message comes from Kieran. Kieran says, Hi, 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:48.880 Joe and Rob, this is Kieran from New Zealand. With 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.000 all this talk of Wallace. This is in response in 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.040 part by the way to our episode episodes on Alfred 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:59.439 Russell Wallace and the Wallace line. Kieran says, with all 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:02.360 this talk of my mind immediately jumped to a potential 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.159 candidate for weird house cinema, and that is the fantastic 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.960 two thousand and six film called The Fall. In the film, 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:13.840 it features a fictional Wallace and his monkey sidekick named Darwin. 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.160 Now one quick note, I had I looked this movie up, 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.160 and Kieran, I don't. I hesitate to correct you because 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:23.480 you've seen the film and I haven't. But when I 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.119 looked it up, it seems to me like it might 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.679 be the other way around, that there's a Darwin character 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:31.000 with a monkey named Wallace. But again I haven't seen it, 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.760 so maybe there's something I'm missing. Anyway, Kieran continues Wallace 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.000 and Darwin feature and story in a story within the 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:40.800 story in the film, though not main characters. They play 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.760 an important part in the events of the imaginary story 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.320 featured in the film. It's honestly one of the most 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.840 visually beautiful films I've ever seen, A criminally underrated masterpiece 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.920 with plenty of interesting content to fulfill the weird house quota. 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:59.080 Is this by the same director of The Cell with 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:01.399 Jennifer Lopez and Vincent and Afrio. 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:06.040 It absolutely is. Yes, Tarsian Tarsi singh. I think he 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.159 just goes by Tarsan. Yeah, and I have I have 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:11.640 seen The Fall. It's I have not seen it since 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.879 it came out. It had a young Lee Pace in 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:21.320 it before Lee Pace got completely ripped. A great actor. 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:23.920 Lipace a big fan and enjoying really enjoying him on 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:29.320 foundation of late. But yeah, the Fall, I remember, like 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.679 The Cell being just a you know, a visual treat, 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.479 but I don't remember much about the plot. It's just 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:36.920 been too long since i've seen it. 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:41.439 Well, I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the recommendation, and. 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:45.840 It's very possible we might come back and do The Cell. Yeah, 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.880 The Cell is one I do remember getting very excited 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:52.160 for when it came out, and and certainly the visuals 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:53.560 did not disappoint at the time. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.640 If I recall correctly, that was one of the movies 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.439 that Roger Ebert really went out on a limb for. 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:02.199 He was like, this is awesome. You've got to see it. 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.159 Sure enough to sell four stars. 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:10.160 All right, let's see. Karing goes on to say, one 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:12.399 of the things I also love about Weird House is 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:15.280 how both of you have an immense talent for unpacking 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:19.080 a film and succinctly describing its concepts and themes. Therefore, 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.480 another film I would love to hear given the Weird 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:24.720 House treatment is a childhood favorite of mine. It's Terry 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:29.080 Gilliams The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. Many consider this film 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:32.680 to be an utter folly in the gilliam film catalog, 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:35.000