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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: Jim James, the frontman from My Morning Jacket, has lived

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Speaker 2: many lives over the band's twenty seven year career. He

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Speaker 2: started as a hopeful young musician, chasing the magic of

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Speaker 2: his musical heroes while secretly fearing he'd never measure up. Later,

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Speaker 2: he spiraled into heavy drinking and self doubt, teetering on

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Speaker 2: the edge of leaving the band behind. But today Jim

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Speaker 2: is in a much different place, healthier, more grounded, and

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Speaker 2: full of self acceptance, thanks in part to a mix

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Speaker 2: of traditional and psychedelic therapies he turned to during the pandemic.

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Speaker 2: This month, My Morning Jacket returns with is their tenth

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Speaker 2: studio album, and they're first made entirely with an outside producer,

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Speaker 2: the legendary Brendan O'Brien. On today's episode, Lea Rose sits

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Speaker 2: down with Jim to talk about the ayahuasca journey that

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Speaker 2: helped him learn how.

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Speaker 1: To truly love himself.

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Speaker 2: He also looks back on the writing of the band's

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Speaker 2: second album At Dawn and recalls this surreal moment he

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Speaker 2: saw Bob Dylan disappear into the music while playing with

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Speaker 2: him live. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations.

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Speaker 2: You can see a full video of this interview on

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Speaker 2: our YouTube page at YouTube dot com Slash Broken Record podcast.

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Speaker 2: Now here's Leah Rose's interview with Jim James.

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Speaker 3: So, when you go in to start a new project,

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Speaker 3: like with the new album is, do you have a

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Speaker 3: vision in mind for what you want it to sound

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Speaker 3: like or what's the conceptual part for you?

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Speaker 4: When you know, okay, this is the beginning of a

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Speaker 4: new project.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's so different. Every album is so different. And

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Speaker 1: over the years, various gems over the time, have you

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Speaker 1: had had ideas or con or opinions or theories or

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Speaker 1: whatever about what they thought that the albums might be.

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Speaker 1: And it's so funny because it's like the universe always

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Speaker 1: makes the album what it's gonna be, you know, and

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Speaker 1: and lots of most of my life I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize that until the last moment, you know, or

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Speaker 1: or somewhere in there. Because you know, you can start

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Speaker 1: with the concept let's make a heavy metal album, or

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Speaker 1: let's make a protest album, or let's make this kind

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Speaker 1: of album or that kind of album. But when you

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Speaker 1: get in the studio, things start working and not working,

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Speaker 1: and very quickly your heavy metal album turns into a

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Speaker 1: folk album or whatever, you know, just to use broad terms.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like this record more than ever. I

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Speaker 1: feel like I really just tried to let myself put

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Speaker 1: everything I have into the pot, and I put all

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Speaker 1: of my ideas, even things that were kind of mostly

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Speaker 1: finished or close to finish solo project ideas or one

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Speaker 1: ever and thirty second voice memos, and you know, things

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Speaker 1: we'd already recorded with My Morning Jacket that we're kind

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Speaker 1: of we weren't totally happy with, but we just kind

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Speaker 1: of put it all into the pot and I tried

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Speaker 1: to step back and let it, let it be what

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Speaker 1: it was going to be.

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Speaker 3: I heard that you recently, and I don't know how

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Speaker 3: much this has to do with recording the new album,

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Speaker 3: the process, your creative process with the new album, but

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Speaker 3: you had an experience with ayahuasca that sort of maybe

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Speaker 3: brought some clarity to your life and your relationship with yourself.

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Speaker 3: Was that a recent experience and does that have anything

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Speaker 3: to do with this album?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: God, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean I feel like I've been on a really,

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Speaker 1: really great journey in the last five years or so

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Speaker 1: I've been on it. I feel so excited and so

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Speaker 1: grateful that I found a therapist in the pan pandemic

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Speaker 1: that I really connected with and I really so I

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Speaker 1: started doing EMDR and parts work therapy with him, and

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Speaker 1: that EMDR is basically like, Uh, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: different ways you can do it, but you're basically trying

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Speaker 1: to train your brain to put traumatic memories back where

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Speaker 1: they're supposed to be. And you can you can either

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Speaker 1: follow a light left to right, or you can tap

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Speaker 1: on yourself left to right, and basically it's like this

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Speaker 1: really interesting. Uh. And obviously if you google it or whatever,

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Speaker 1: you can read far more scientific explanations on this. But

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Speaker 1: you're basically, you work with your therapist to go to

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Speaker 1: a traumatic moment and and while you're processing that traumatic

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Speaker 1: moment in your mind, you're tapping or you're following a

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Speaker 1: light or whatever works best for you. And basically it's

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Speaker 1: like in my experience, because we all kind of I

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Speaker 1: think we all know the feeling of of trauma taking

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Speaker 1: us over when we don't want to be taken over.

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Speaker 1: You know, it kind of starts playing like a full

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Speaker 1: color HD movie and kind of taking over our lives.

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Speaker 1: And basically you're trying to put it back into your

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Speaker 1: memory box. Where it's just it's just another memory, like

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Speaker 1: the you know, it's like a black and white polaroid

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Speaker 1: compared to a full color HD movie with sound. And

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Speaker 1: so I found when I work through those things and

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Speaker 1: through different parts of myself, when I combine the parts,

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Speaker 1: work therapy with it, so with that it's like a

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Speaker 1: similar thing like you'll work with the twelve year old

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Speaker 1: version of yourself or the five year old version of yourself,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you've experienced these trauma and you process it,

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Speaker 1: and as you process it, something's happening in your mind

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Speaker 1: with the tapping where it's putting, it's kind of unpacking

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Speaker 1: the power of the trauma to make it more of

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Speaker 1: a normal memory, you know, where it doesn't have such

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Speaker 1: a hold on you. And I feel like that for

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Speaker 1: me has been extremely powerful. And I have coupled that

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Speaker 1: with different psychedelic therapies like ayahuasca and ketamine five EO

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Speaker 1: d MT different things, because I feel like I think

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Speaker 1: one thing that I try to be careful about when

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Speaker 1: talking with people about psychedelics in particular is not trying

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Speaker 1: to be like, go do ayahuasca and everything's going to

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Speaker 1: be great. You know, all your problems are gone, you know,

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Speaker 1: because I think that's the kind of common thing that

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Speaker 1: people think, Oh, if I go to ayahuasca, I think

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Speaker 1: you really got I think all those things are important

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Speaker 1: pieces of the puzzle, but I think you have to

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Speaker 1: be very careful where you go and who you do

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Speaker 1: it with, and be very guided, you know. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I've always wanted to do a lot of those things,

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Speaker 1: but I've always tried to wait until somebody that I

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Speaker 1: trust kind of brought it to me, you know, the

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Speaker 1: universe brings it to me, you know, And I feel like,

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Speaker 1: so I've been fortunate to have some of those experiences.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, ayahuasca was really, I mean, very varied experience,

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Speaker 1: so many experiences. I mean we could talk shows and

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Speaker 1: shows and shows about just that, but there was that

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Speaker 1: was a very crucial piece in my healing journey of

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Speaker 1: I had an experience where I was holding myself in

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Speaker 1: my own arms, and I was this was twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: right before the pandemic, and I was I was Jim

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, holding Jim in twenty nineteen, and it

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Speaker 1: was as real as this, Like it wasn't like some

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Speaker 1: some wild trippy hellucination. It was like as concretely real

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Speaker 1: as this, And I was holding myself, kind of patting

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Speaker 1: my hair back, looking into my own eyes, being like, Jim,

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Speaker 1: you're so mean to yourself, buddy, Like you gotta you

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Speaker 1: gotta be nicer to yourself. You gotta try and love

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Speaker 1: yourself more. You know, you're you're a nice guy. You're

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Speaker 1: trying your best. And I'm look, really, Jim, you really

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Speaker 1: mean it, you know. And it was like I was

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Speaker 1: able to see myself as another person, you know, And

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Speaker 1: I think that's a that's a distinction that really helped

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Speaker 1: me because it's easier for us to be nice to

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Speaker 1: people we love, you know, but then we're so mean

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Speaker 1: to ourselves. We rip ourselves to pieces. And I've spent

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Speaker 1: my entire life ripping myself to pieces, being so mean

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Speaker 1: to myself, trying to escape from myself, drinking myself to death,

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Speaker 1: you know, just running, running, running, And that was a

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Speaker 1: really important piece for me to see myself as somebody

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Speaker 1: that I need to treat with kindness, you know. Like

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Speaker 1: that was like a mind blower to me of like, God,

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Speaker 1: if I can't be nice to myself, if I can't

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Speaker 1: love myself, how can I hope to see the world

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Speaker 1: with clarity, you know, or you know, it just was

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Speaker 1: a really really big moment for me.

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Speaker 4: Has it been able to stick?

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Speaker 1: I really feel like it has. Yeah. I mean I

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Speaker 1: feel like with with the therapy I've been doing, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like these experiences, I think, if you have someone

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Speaker 1: safe to process them with and you keep working with them,

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Speaker 1: I really do feel like they have begun to stick.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like I've I've never felt more

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Speaker 1: peaceful or present in my life, you know, and I

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Speaker 1: just feel so grateful for that. I feel like that,

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Speaker 1: like you asked a minute ago, that was kind of

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Speaker 1: all of that has kind of combined to kind of

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Speaker 1: lead me to where I am when we're working on

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Speaker 1: this album and beyond, you know, to kind of be

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Speaker 1: able to not place my entire self worth in the

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Speaker 1: success or failure of my band, you know, because most

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Speaker 1: of my life I've done that, you know, most of

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Speaker 1: my life. I'm like, if I get the world to

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Speaker 1: love me, or I get this external validation, then maybe

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Speaker 1: finally I can love me. But you know, that's that's

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Speaker 1: a recipe that never works because you're just on the

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Speaker 1: roller coaster ride of one day the world loves you

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Speaker 1: and the next day of the world hates you or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and you're up and down, up and down, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I keep trying to come back to like what can

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Speaker 1: I What can I do that nobody can ever take

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Speaker 1: away from me? You know, And that's love myself. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's something we can all do for our selves, especially

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Speaker 1: in the madness of the world, the chaos of the world.

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Speaker 1: I feel like if everybody started trying to really love themselves,

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Speaker 1: we would see that again to manifest and more healing

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Speaker 1: and more peace and more love for each other. You know.

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Speaker 3: It takes a lot of work, though, like you were saying,

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Speaker 3: you had like a multi tiered approach to it, traditional

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Speaker 3: and non traditional.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if enough people make that investment in themselves.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think it's important that we talk about it

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Speaker 1: on things like this because I think, yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's something you do have to take the time to do.

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Speaker 1: But there's almost like this weird thing where our culture

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Speaker 1: tells us where we're selfish, if we work on ourselves

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Speaker 1: too much, or if we think about ourselves where and

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Speaker 1: there's this of course, there are ways to be selfish

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Speaker 1: and you know, narcissistic and ways that are kind of

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Speaker 1: taking the energy in a bad way. But I think

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Speaker 1: if we think about it kind of like that that

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Speaker 1: episode I had in Ayahuasca, where like, if we think

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Speaker 1: about ourselves as our own best friend or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: we treat ourselves as if we would treat our most beloved,

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Speaker 1: best friend or partner, you know, whoever in our life

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Speaker 1: that we love the most. Yeah, if we if we

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Speaker 1: started there, I mean, what what greater work is there

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Speaker 1: to do? You know? Then delay that foundation?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Have friends or family or people who are you're really

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Speaker 3: close to have they noticed a difference in you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they really have. And I feel like the band,

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Speaker 1: it's been a really really special thing because because for

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Speaker 1: years I was a terrible communicator, and I was so

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Speaker 1: depressed and uh just drinking and trying to run from

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Speaker 1: life and not being able to communicate how it's feeling,

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Speaker 1: and uh so there'd be a lot of bad energy

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Speaker 1: or a lot of unspoken energy, you know. And and

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Speaker 1: the band, you know, we almost didn't make it several

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Speaker 1: times throughout the years, you know. And I feel like,

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Speaker 1: luckily we've all been on a similar journey lately where

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Speaker 1: everybody is really trying to take good care of themselves

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Speaker 1: and do the work to like heal themselves, and you know,

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Speaker 1: and that's been this really beautiful, uh era of just

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Speaker 1: better communication. You know. It's like it's not like things

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Speaker 1: are always easier that no problems arise, but I think

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Speaker 1: when you instantly address the problem and talk about it

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Speaker 1: and clear the air, that like lets it all blow through.

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Speaker 1: And I think we've got we've been in this really

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Speaker 1: just I mean we kind we kind of all like

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Speaker 1: hug and talk about it all the time, like, look,

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Speaker 1: how lucky are we We're still you know, twenty five

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Speaker 1: years later, we're still playing music and we still love

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Speaker 1: each other and we're not like trying to kill each

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Speaker 1: other or like hiding from each other or like having

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Speaker 1: separate you know worlds or you know, it's just like

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Speaker 1: everyone has to so totally yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just

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Speaker 1: so you know, so great. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean that seems to be the move in as

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Speaker 3: you approach midlife, is to take sock in your health

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Speaker 3: and really try and be a better person.

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Speaker 4: And it's really sad when you think about people who didn't.

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Speaker 3: Make it this far, people who died early and they

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Speaker 3: didn't get to a point where they're like on a

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Speaker 3: self improvement kick.

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Speaker 1: I know, well, God, I mean, midlife can go the

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Speaker 1: other way too, you know, you can hit the other

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Speaker 1: way if you haven't done that work and start springing

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Speaker 1: into other ways just like, yeah, got to be crazy

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Speaker 1: and yeah, well yeah, the classic midlife crisis kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff you know, that we hear about and that we

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Speaker 1: see out in the world. Unfortunately, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that are in positions of power in our world right now,

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Speaker 1: we're watching them experience their midlife crisis and you know,

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Speaker 1: taking it out on everybody else. And because I mean

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Speaker 1: think about, like, God, if Kurt Cobain or you know,

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Hendrix or whoever people struggle with absolutely, Jim Morrison, whoever,

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Speaker 1: people who struggle with substance abuse, Joblin, whoever, think about

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Speaker 1: if they could have found a way out and found

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Speaker 1: a way to get past that, they could still be here.

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Speaker 1: You know, we could still be experiencing music from Marvin

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Speaker 1: Gay or you know they're talking all these people this

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Speaker 1: just like, I think we really need to think about

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Speaker 1: that for the future, you know, that that we can

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Speaker 1: hopefully get this word out that it's okay if you're depressed,

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Speaker 1: it's okay if you struggle with substance abuse, like talk

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Speaker 1: to somebody about it, like find a way there is

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Speaker 1: a way out, you know, and don't beat yourself up

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Speaker 1: or feel like you're all alone or your failure or whatever.

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Speaker 1: You know. I think we really need to address that.

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Speaker 1: A lot of this stuff, a lot of it comes

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Speaker 1: genetically or it comes through some pipeline.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's not like people ask to be depressed or to

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Speaker 1: be genetically disposition towards alcoholism or drug abuse or whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I think the more we can talk

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Speaker 1: about it, and the more we can try to get

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Speaker 1: people the help they need, the more we can see

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Speaker 1: the future people now live to still create, you know, totally. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And I don't know what your relationship is like with

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Speaker 3: your parents or if they're living or what, but has

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Speaker 3: this change in you has it changed your relationship with

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Speaker 3: your parents or with family members?

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Speaker 1: Oh? God, absolutely yeah. My parents are amazing. They're still alive,

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Speaker 1: and we're really close and we spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time together. And I mean, I think every family, you know, dynamic,

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Speaker 1: is complex and has its difficulties and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: But one thing I recognize the more that I try

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Speaker 1: to find peace with myself is that everybody's on their

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Speaker 1: own journey, and a lot of the times the best

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Speaker 1: thing we can do for somebody is just be there

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Speaker 1: to listen to them and not think that we can

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Speaker 1: keep solving their problems. You know that we have all

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Speaker 1: the answers. And you know, I think I think that's

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Speaker 1: one thing that I've struggled with. On another people have

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Speaker 1: struggle with is when you watch somebody that you love

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Speaker 1: suffer whatever, and you keep wanting to help them. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, if only you just won't

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Speaker 1: you just do this? Won't you just do that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of times people don't need

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Speaker 1: to hear that, you know. It's like people people just

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Speaker 1: need you to be there for them and listen to them,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, speak your peace and and you know, put

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Speaker 1: out put some things on the table that could help them.

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Speaker 1: But then I think sometimes we need to step back

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Speaker 1: and say. That's one thing I just kept coming to

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Speaker 1: again and again, was like, well, like, whoa man, how

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Speaker 1: can I offer anybody advice if I'm constantly at war

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Speaker 1: with myself? You know, like where am I? Where am

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Speaker 1: I offering advice from? If my whole world is in chaos?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: You know, and so I think that's like the uh,

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Speaker 1: the thing I've tried to come back to with my

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Speaker 1: family and friends. It's just like, how can I be

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Speaker 1: there to to support them and listen to them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you said something about Era about my morning

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Speaker 3: Jacket having ERA earlier, and I was reading on Reddit

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Speaker 3: and it seems like a lot of your fans think

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Speaker 3: of the band in distinct eras. And I saw somebody

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Speaker 3: mention that they thought a distinct era was post COVID.

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Speaker 3: So it's sort of interesting that that lines up with

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Speaker 3: that experience for you. And I was wondering for you,

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Speaker 3: you've been in it. It might just be hard to

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Speaker 3: think of it objectively. But do you think of the

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Speaker 3: band as like distinct eras that line up maybe with

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Speaker 3: albums or decades or how do you think of it?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, definitely. It's so funny because we've been thinking

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Speaker 1: about this a lot, because I look back because we

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Speaker 1: constantly have to do things like learn an old song

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Speaker 1: that we're going to play or something that we haven't

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Speaker 1: played in ten years or more. So I'm constantly looking

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Speaker 1: back on all these old gyms that have gone through

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Speaker 1: all of these albums. Because each album is like a

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Speaker 1: time machine for me, you know, And it's like and

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Speaker 1: if I have to go back to it and hear it,

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Speaker 1: and I like hear that old Gem and I'm like, wow, man,

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Speaker 1: Like that Gem was so lost in being Jim, so

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Speaker 1: completely consumed by this experience of being Jim and being

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Speaker 1: gobbled up by this depression or this fear or whatever,

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Speaker 1: that he was so consumed in it. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, like I always know that he was trying

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Speaker 1: the best he could, and that kind of really gives

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Speaker 1: me this piece as I look back across everything and

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Speaker 1: the sense of like I'm so proud of everything that

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Speaker 1: I've ever done. I still show up to do the work,

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Speaker 1: but I accept that, like a lot of the things

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Speaker 1: are gonna happen, They're not really in my control. Whereas

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Speaker 1: as I look back in this time machine and all

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Speaker 1: the old Gems, all these old Gems were so locked

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Speaker 1: into their ego of Jim, and so there's so much

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Speaker 1: resistance and so much depression and anger and fighting and

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Speaker 1: the universe still was going to do what it was

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Speaker 1: going to do, but I couldn't see that, and I

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Speaker 1: was fighting it and just like so consumed in this

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Speaker 1: whole thing, so Yeah, it's so interesting when I look back,

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Speaker 1: because there's so much fun in there, and so much

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Speaker 1: joy too, and hilarity and experience and love and brotherhood

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Speaker 1: with the guys in the band and you know, everybody

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Speaker 1: I've ever collaborated with, and all all of this. But

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Speaker 1: there was so much fear there too, and so much

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Speaker 1: depression that I feel like I look back on all

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Speaker 1: those different eras of Jim and I really try to

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Speaker 1: be compassionate towards him or whatever, because it's I have

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Speaker 1: to embody him all the time, you know, anytime I

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Speaker 1: sing one of those songs to embody this old version

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Speaker 1: of Jim, you know. And it used to be when

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Speaker 1: I was still depressed and I was still being eaten alive.

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Speaker 1: As the latest version of Jim that's having to go

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Speaker 1: back and do all these older gym soles are cool.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't tired good. I can't take it.

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Speaker 1: But now the more peaceful I've become, it's become really

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Speaker 1: fun and more easy for me to go be twenty

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Speaker 1: two year old Gym or twenty five year old Jen

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Speaker 1: or nearly suicidal thirty year old Gym or whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: And I can see it all with more compassion, and

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Speaker 1: we can have more fun as a band, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can do wilder setlists and do every single song

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Speaker 1: we've ever recorded or whatever, Whereas before my depression limited

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Speaker 1: my range of what I could do because I just

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Speaker 1: couldn't do a lot of things.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, Do you ever have the experience where, similar

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Speaker 3: to the therapy that you were talking about, how you're

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Speaker 3: trying to sort of rewire or change the impact of

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Speaker 3: a traumatic memory. Do you ever sing an old song

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Speaker 3: and try and do the same thing with the old

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Speaker 3: song to where you're trying to rewire the experience of it.

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Speaker 1: Definitely. Yeah, It's so crazy, because, yeah, when I feel

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Speaker 1: like when I was still being eaten alive by my

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Speaker 1: alcoholism or my depression, like maybe twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: something like that. In that period, when I was trying

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Speaker 1: to go back and do some of the old songs,

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Speaker 1: it was so dark, so difficult, you know. But now

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Speaker 1: when I go back and try to do some of

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Speaker 1: those darker songs, there is this really beautiful rewiring or

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Speaker 1: something where it's like it's like geez, like what a

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Speaker 1: gift that I'm able to like go back and revisit

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Speaker 1: this energy and almost like it ye, heal it, you know,

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Speaker 1: like somehow manifest the energy still and create it because

395
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Speaker 1: there's a lot of like wailing and screaming and like waw,

396
00:21:49,556 --> 00:21:51,596
Speaker 1: you know, like a lot of energy that old Jim

397
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Speaker 1: had to get out or whatever that now when I

398
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Speaker 1: get it out, it's like this beautiful yeah changing of

399
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Speaker 1: the energy or releasing of the energy. And there's this

400
00:22:01,396 --> 00:22:04,756
Speaker 1: gratitude there where like whoa, Like how lucky am I

401
00:22:04,796 --> 00:22:08,356
Speaker 1: that I can still do this? Yeah? And that people

402
00:22:08,436 --> 00:22:11,156
Speaker 1: still want to show up and see it. You know,

403
00:22:11,156 --> 00:22:15,036
Speaker 1: it's like it becomes this beautiful celebration of like if

404
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Speaker 1: there were people that identified with the way that that

405
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Speaker 1: Jim was feeling, or you know, people that are dealing

406
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Speaker 1: with their own depression or their own energy, like perhaps

407
00:22:24,236 --> 00:22:27,636
Speaker 1: and hopefully we can all rewire together, you know, we

408
00:22:27,676 --> 00:22:31,476
Speaker 1: can all manifest this new energy together, and yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: really really healing.

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Speaker 3: When you revisit those old songs or any songs that

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Speaker 3: you've written, do you ever have the experience of like, damn,

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Speaker 3: like this is actually really good and kind of like

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Speaker 3: patch yourself on the back, Like do you give yourself

414
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Speaker 3: props over or is it always just like do you

415
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Speaker 3: go to the negative.

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Speaker 1: But historically I've always gone to the negative. I've always

417
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Speaker 1: been like, I'm not good enough. I'll never be as

418
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Speaker 1: good as Bob Dylan or you know, I'll never sing

419
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Speaker 1: as good as Nina Simone or whatever the comparisons are.

420
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Speaker 1: But now that I'm in this new paradigm, and I

421
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Speaker 1: hope I don't sound like like I've done all the

422
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Speaker 1: work and solved it all and I'm like totally, you know,

423
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Speaker 1: figured it all out anything, because I have and I'm

424
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Speaker 1: still in this journey. But one thing I do recognize

425
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Speaker 1: is I am able to love all those old gems

426
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Speaker 1: more and give them a pat on the back and

427
00:23:23,076 --> 00:23:25,356
Speaker 1: like and really just love a song for what it is,

428
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Speaker 1: you know, and and not be comparing it with fucking

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Speaker 1: Bob Dylan or whatever. You know what I mean. It's

430
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Speaker 1: like there's just always been this ruthless voice comparing myself

431
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Speaker 1: to all of my heroes. And I think once we

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Speaker 1: all realize that, like, that's that's all illusion. You know

433
00:23:42,556 --> 00:23:44,996
Speaker 1: that there is no comparison, there is no better or worse,

434
00:23:45,036 --> 00:23:47,116
Speaker 1: there is no you know, it's all different shades of

435
00:23:47,116 --> 00:23:49,556
Speaker 1: everything than I have. I really have been able to

436
00:23:49,676 --> 00:23:53,676
Speaker 1: just like just enjoy a song for what for what

437
00:23:53,796 --> 00:23:55,996
Speaker 1: it is, you know, like for the well the thing

438
00:23:56,036 --> 00:23:59,076
Speaker 1: it provides at that moment, and uh and also just

439
00:23:59,116 --> 00:24:01,356
Speaker 1: experience in that in that moment and then it's gone.

440
00:24:01,636 --> 00:24:03,876
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not worried about it. I'm not like, oh,

441
00:24:03,996 --> 00:24:06,716
Speaker 1: Jez Louiss, you did I sing that well enough? Or

442
00:24:06,756 --> 00:24:10,796
Speaker 1: are those lyrics good enough? Whatever? It's like just like experience.

443
00:24:10,876 --> 00:24:12,996
Speaker 3: I just feel like you're such a good performer. I

444
00:24:13,076 --> 00:24:15,436
Speaker 3: just hope that you realize that. And you're such a

445
00:24:15,436 --> 00:24:17,436
Speaker 3: great songwriter. You're so good to what you do.

446
00:24:17,516 --> 00:24:21,476
Speaker 4: I just like want to like thank you, be like, dude,

447
00:24:22,236 --> 00:24:23,756
Speaker 4: you will take on yourself.

448
00:24:24,076 --> 00:24:26,676
Speaker 1: Well now now I feel like I finally am able

449
00:24:26,756 --> 00:24:29,276
Speaker 1: to love to love myself and just accept it, you know,

450
00:24:29,356 --> 00:24:32,476
Speaker 1: and and really enjoy it in the moment. And uh.

451
00:24:32,516 --> 00:24:34,476
Speaker 1: But I think the world is tough because the world

452
00:24:35,356 --> 00:24:38,356
Speaker 1: kind of forces us to compare ourselves to our heroes

453
00:24:38,436 --> 00:24:42,236
Speaker 1: or to our contemporaries, and especially like the more digital

454
00:24:42,356 --> 00:24:45,916
Speaker 1: the world's gotten and the more numerically based it's all gotten.

455
00:24:45,916 --> 00:24:48,876
Speaker 1: There's stats for everything, you know. Every YouTube video has

456
00:24:48,876 --> 00:24:52,156
Speaker 1: a play count, every Instagram post has a like count.

457
00:24:52,356 --> 00:24:54,876
Speaker 1: And I think when you're trapped in that comparative frame

458
00:24:54,916 --> 00:24:59,916
Speaker 1: of mind and you're like, oh, Vandixa's eighty three million

459
00:25:00,436 --> 00:25:04,556
Speaker 1: views on their YouTube, we will only have you know. Yeah,

460
00:25:04,596 --> 00:25:09,556
Speaker 1: It's just like that whole uh mentality is just so

461
00:25:09,716 --> 00:25:12,596
Speaker 1: fucked up, you know. And I think that's like part

462
00:25:12,636 --> 00:25:14,676
Speaker 1: of our jobs too, is like trying to get each

463
00:25:14,716 --> 00:25:19,916
Speaker 1: other out of that comparison mind frame and just into

464
00:25:19,956 --> 00:25:23,116
Speaker 1: this idea that we've all got something to share and

465
00:25:23,476 --> 00:25:27,836
Speaker 1: it's gonna be what it's gonna be, and you can't

466
00:25:27,956 --> 00:25:33,876
Speaker 1: look at it in this statistical way that unfortunately our

467
00:25:33,956 --> 00:25:38,956
Speaker 1: current digital paradise has trapped us into the statistical world.

468
00:25:39,156 --> 00:25:42,756
Speaker 2: That's wild. We'll be back with more from Jim James

469
00:25:42,756 --> 00:25:44,516
Speaker 2: and Lea Rose after the break.

470
00:25:48,596 --> 00:25:48,716
Speaker 1: So.

471
00:25:48,756 --> 00:25:51,636
Speaker 4: I saw that at Don is turning twenty.

472
00:25:51,316 --> 00:25:57,276
Speaker 3: Five this year, and I was curious, how if you're

473
00:25:57,316 --> 00:26:02,156
Speaker 3: able to contrast the recording of at Don where you

474
00:26:02,196 --> 00:26:04,596
Speaker 3: were when you were like, you're like twenty one twenty

475
00:26:04,596 --> 00:26:05,676
Speaker 3: two when you recorded that.

476
00:26:06,236 --> 00:26:11,076
Speaker 4: It's crazy, I think, so is like, how was the

477
00:26:11,116 --> 00:26:11,996
Speaker 4: process different?

478
00:26:14,116 --> 00:26:17,916
Speaker 1: Oh God, I mean everything was different. You know, life

479
00:26:17,996 --> 00:26:18,676
Speaker 1: was so different.

480
00:26:19,636 --> 00:26:21,156
Speaker 3: What were you like, where were you at? What do

481
00:26:21,196 --> 00:26:23,076
Speaker 3: you remember from that period of your life.

482
00:26:23,476 --> 00:26:25,276
Speaker 1: That was funny. That was an interesting period in my

483
00:26:25,316 --> 00:26:28,396
Speaker 1: life that I called the heroic Gym period in my

484
00:26:29,116 --> 00:26:31,716
Speaker 1: therapy conversations, is that I do my parts work because

485
00:26:32,156 --> 00:26:35,196
Speaker 1: that was the first time in my life after the

486
00:26:35,196 --> 00:26:39,276
Speaker 1: Tennessee Fire came out that anybody ever liked anything I'd

487
00:26:39,316 --> 00:26:41,836
Speaker 1: ever done period, you know. So it's like there's the

488
00:26:41,916 --> 00:26:44,556
Speaker 1: sense of like, whoa, people actually liked my music, and

489
00:26:44,596 --> 00:26:46,716
Speaker 1: I fell in love for the first time, and I

490
00:26:46,756 --> 00:26:49,596
Speaker 1: lost my virginity, and I like was having this like

491
00:26:50,276 --> 00:26:53,356
Speaker 1: really beautiful moment in time where like all these things

492
00:26:53,356 --> 00:26:56,396
Speaker 1: that I never thought would happen were happening, and there's

493
00:26:56,516 --> 00:27:01,836
Speaker 1: this sense of just joy and creation, and you know,

494
00:27:01,916 --> 00:27:05,916
Speaker 1: we were just like running around wild and you know,

495
00:27:05,956 --> 00:27:08,756
Speaker 1: we were kind of like our own little version of

496
00:27:08,756 --> 00:27:10,796
Speaker 1: the Wrong Stones in France or whatever.

497
00:27:10,836 --> 00:27:11,036
Speaker 3: You know.

498
00:27:11,076 --> 00:27:15,756
Speaker 1: We were like, you know, making our wild XL on

499
00:27:15,876 --> 00:27:20,236
Speaker 1: Main Street World out there in Shelbyville, and it was

500
00:27:20,276 --> 00:27:24,116
Speaker 1: so fun and beautiful and uh and free, you know,

501
00:27:24,276 --> 00:27:26,516
Speaker 1: and there was this sense of but there's always the

502
00:27:26,596 --> 00:27:29,076
Speaker 1: sense we always had the sense because nobody had ever

503
00:27:29,236 --> 00:27:32,276
Speaker 1: liked anything that we did, we still thought every at

504
00:27:32,276 --> 00:27:34,036
Speaker 1: every turn, we were going to get canned you know,

505
00:27:34,076 --> 00:27:36,116
Speaker 1: so we're like, all right, like, let's make this thing

506
00:27:36,156 --> 00:27:37,756
Speaker 1: as long as we can, because this is our probably

507
00:27:37,756 --> 00:27:38,436
Speaker 1: our last shot.

508
00:27:38,476 --> 00:27:38,636
Speaker 3: You know.

509
00:27:38,636 --> 00:27:40,636
Speaker 1: I think at Dawn and the Tancy Fire and it

510
00:27:40,716 --> 00:27:42,876
Speaker 1: still moves. I think all those records are like as

511
00:27:42,916 --> 00:27:45,476
Speaker 1: long as the CD can be, which is seventy four minutes.

512
00:27:45,516 --> 00:27:48,396
Speaker 1: You know, like we're like, let's use literally every second

513
00:27:48,516 --> 00:27:50,676
Speaker 1: of this fucking CD. You know, we're still thinking of

514
00:27:50,716 --> 00:27:54,636
Speaker 1: CD terms back then. But it's so beautiful because after that,

515
00:27:56,516 --> 00:28:00,156
Speaker 1: but most of my life after that, I was trapped

516
00:28:00,196 --> 00:28:04,476
Speaker 1: in severe depression and severe you know still whatever. Still

517
00:28:04,476 --> 00:28:05,836
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun and a lot of beauty whatever.

518
00:28:05,996 --> 00:28:09,676
Speaker 1: But it's interesting that you choose that record because I

519
00:28:09,716 --> 00:28:13,996
Speaker 1: feel like, is we've kind of come into this new

520
00:28:14,796 --> 00:28:18,676
Speaker 1: golden age of like this this peaceful golden age of

521
00:28:18,756 --> 00:28:21,116
Speaker 1: like it's different from that because that was like that

522
00:28:21,236 --> 00:28:26,356
Speaker 1: was a beginner's mind still and youth and first and

523
00:28:26,876 --> 00:28:29,516
Speaker 1: new and all that stuff, and and but it's beautiful

524
00:28:29,516 --> 00:28:33,556
Speaker 1: because we've kind of invented this this new new, this

525
00:28:33,636 --> 00:28:38,196
Speaker 1: new beginner's mind in the experience where it's like, what

526
00:28:38,316 --> 00:28:41,476
Speaker 1: else can we do that keeps this new for us

527
00:28:41,516 --> 00:28:44,116
Speaker 1: and keeps this fresh for us, And one of those

528
00:28:44,156 --> 00:28:48,396
Speaker 1: things was finally being able to release control and bring

529
00:28:48,436 --> 00:28:51,476
Speaker 1: in somebody like Brendan O'Brien to work on this record

530
00:28:51,516 --> 00:28:54,316
Speaker 1: with us. That was something we'd never done before, was

531
00:28:54,356 --> 00:28:57,596
Speaker 1: like bring in a coach, you know, because we always

532
00:28:57,636 --> 00:29:00,276
Speaker 1: either did it ourselves, or we did it with contemporaries

533
00:29:00,396 --> 00:29:02,876
Speaker 1: or equals or you know, people that are kind of

534
00:29:02,876 --> 00:29:05,436
Speaker 1: on the same level as us. And that's a beautiful

535
00:29:05,436 --> 00:29:07,156
Speaker 1: way to work too, but we're just like always like

536
00:29:07,236 --> 00:29:10,476
Speaker 1: what can we do that's different? And I think all

537
00:29:10,516 --> 00:29:14,236
Speaker 1: of this kind of healing that we're talking about, I

538
00:29:14,276 --> 00:29:16,236
Speaker 1: was able to like let go of so much and

539
00:29:16,276 --> 00:29:20,556
Speaker 1: be like, I really think we could benefit from a coach,

540
00:29:20,956 --> 00:29:23,676
Speaker 1: you know, somebody who's who's not our equal, He's not

541
00:29:23,716 --> 00:29:25,996
Speaker 1: on our level. He's like a step or two above.

542
00:29:25,996 --> 00:29:29,116
Speaker 1: He's done this hundreds times more than we have. You know,

543
00:29:29,116 --> 00:29:30,756
Speaker 1: he's twenty years older than that. You know, just all

544
00:29:30,756 --> 00:29:35,356
Speaker 1: these things and really like connecting with Brendan and getting

545
00:29:35,436 --> 00:29:40,556
Speaker 1: to see his viewpoint was such a revelation for me

546
00:29:40,676 --> 00:29:46,116
Speaker 1: and for us that I feel like made this whole thing,

547
00:29:46,276 --> 00:29:51,916
Speaker 1: this whole experience, just this beautiful new beginner's minding, you know,

548
00:29:51,956 --> 00:29:53,196
Speaker 1: it is really really special.

549
00:29:53,636 --> 00:29:55,956
Speaker 3: Why did you pick Brendan? Did have anything to do

550
00:29:56,036 --> 00:30:00,476
Speaker 3: with his past work? He's you know, produced most pro

551
00:30:00,596 --> 00:30:05,516
Speaker 3: jam albums, engineered Blood Sugar, Sex, Magic for the Chili Peppers,

552
00:30:06,396 --> 00:30:08,756
Speaker 3: worked with Stone type of pilots, just a ton a

553
00:30:08,796 --> 00:30:11,636
Speaker 3: ton of artists. Did it have anything to do with

554
00:30:11,636 --> 00:30:14,276
Speaker 3: with his work or his sound specifically or was it

555
00:30:14,316 --> 00:30:15,356
Speaker 3: more his personality?

556
00:30:16,196 --> 00:30:19,236
Speaker 1: Well? Yes, and no, I really love Evil Empire that

557
00:30:19,276 --> 00:30:21,716
Speaker 1: raised against the Machine record when he did that record,

558
00:30:21,756 --> 00:30:26,956
Speaker 1: and I took different meetings with lots of people. And

559
00:30:27,196 --> 00:30:33,916
Speaker 1: it's interesting because a lot of more experienced, bigger name

560
00:30:34,796 --> 00:30:38,716
Speaker 1: producers or whatever often come with bigger egos, and there's

561
00:30:38,756 --> 00:30:41,356
Speaker 1: this whole thing that they bring in that can be

562
00:30:41,396 --> 00:30:43,316
Speaker 1: really hard to deal with, where they want to tell

563
00:30:43,356 --> 00:30:46,316
Speaker 1: you how many Grammys they've won and how many records

564
00:30:46,316 --> 00:30:48,316
Speaker 1: they've made with Elton John, you know, all this kind

565
00:30:48,316 --> 00:30:51,676
Speaker 1: of toxic energy that we're always like whatever man you know,

566
00:30:51,796 --> 00:30:54,316
Speaker 1: like and Brendan. The great thing about Brendan is like

567
00:30:54,996 --> 00:30:57,516
Speaker 1: he never put any of that on us, and it

568
00:30:57,556 --> 00:31:01,876
Speaker 1: was never about him inflating his legend or his ego.

569
00:31:01,996 --> 00:31:05,516
Speaker 1: You know, It's almost like all that he cared about

570
00:31:05,876 --> 00:31:07,476
Speaker 1: was the music. You know. And he was a very

571
00:31:07,596 --> 00:31:10,156
Speaker 1: nice guy, a very funny guy. But he wasn't interested

572
00:31:10,156 --> 00:31:13,116
Speaker 1: in becoming best friends. He wasn't interested in being our

573
00:31:13,156 --> 00:31:16,596
Speaker 1: spiritual guru. You know. All he was interested in was

574
00:31:17,276 --> 00:31:19,556
Speaker 1: the song. You know, it is the song the right Keith,

575
00:31:19,716 --> 00:31:21,996
Speaker 1: Is it the right tempo? Do the lyrics connect? You know?

576
00:31:22,276 --> 00:31:27,796
Speaker 1: And he always would have this great sense of being

577
00:31:28,156 --> 00:31:32,836
Speaker 1: critical but always offering a solution or always offering something

578
00:31:33,196 --> 00:31:35,876
Speaker 1: that would help. And to me that it was just

579
00:31:35,916 --> 00:31:39,516
Speaker 1: like I had never really worked with somebody who whose

580
00:31:39,596 --> 00:31:43,756
Speaker 1: mind worked that quickly, wow, and who never was there

581
00:31:43,796 --> 00:31:46,196
Speaker 1: about their agenda, you know. And he was always open

582
00:31:46,236 --> 00:31:48,036
Speaker 1: to what we had to say too. He would never

583
00:31:48,116 --> 00:31:49,836
Speaker 1: like cancel out what we had to say, be like

584
00:31:49,876 --> 00:31:52,196
Speaker 1: all right, all right, let's check that out, or you know.

585
00:31:52,236 --> 00:31:54,756
Speaker 1: But it was so funny playing them songs because he's

586
00:31:54,756 --> 00:31:57,396
Speaker 1: playing one song and he's like, I was like, I

587
00:31:57,476 --> 00:31:59,436
Speaker 1: don't know, man, And then he's playing the next song

588
00:31:59,436 --> 00:32:01,636
Speaker 1: and he's like he's like, oh, that's pretty great. Okay,

589
00:32:01,676 --> 00:32:03,516
Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna have to get rid of something

590
00:32:03,556 --> 00:32:05,596
Speaker 1: else because this is pretty good. And it was just

591
00:32:05,676 --> 00:32:08,916
Speaker 1: really inspiring, and I started writing more and more songs

592
00:32:09,196 --> 00:32:11,876
Speaker 1: and as we said, started the record or whatever. And

593
00:32:12,156 --> 00:32:14,956
Speaker 1: because we send him like over one hundred songs what

594
00:32:15,236 --> 00:32:18,996
Speaker 1: and very quickly he whittles it down to twenty you know,

595
00:32:19,076 --> 00:32:20,996
Speaker 1: his favorite twenty you know, and he's just like and

596
00:32:20,996 --> 00:32:22,756
Speaker 1: we're talking about it. He's like, he's like, oh yeah, man,

597
00:32:22,756 --> 00:32:23,876
Speaker 1: He's like, I'll just get in there, and he's like

598
00:32:23,916 --> 00:32:25,796
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, I'm like, nope, nope.

599
00:32:25,916 --> 00:32:27,916
Speaker 4: Did you recognize the pattern of what he likes and

600
00:32:27,956 --> 00:32:28,756
Speaker 4: what he doesn't like?

601
00:32:29,196 --> 00:32:31,316
Speaker 1: No, It's really interesting because I mean, I feel like

602
00:32:31,396 --> 00:32:34,796
Speaker 1: he he chose songs that we wouldn't have chosen as

603
00:32:34,796 --> 00:32:37,676
Speaker 1: a band, that were more like solo projects I was

604
00:32:37,716 --> 00:32:43,196
Speaker 1: working on, and then other songs that I wrote, even

605
00:32:43,276 --> 00:32:45,756
Speaker 1: after he'd gone through those first hundred or so. It

606
00:32:45,836 --> 00:32:47,756
Speaker 1: was really amazing just to see like what he liked

607
00:32:47,796 --> 00:32:49,556
Speaker 1: and what he didn't, and that was I was just

608
00:32:49,556 --> 00:32:52,436
Speaker 1: really trying to surrender to that process. So I felt like, Okay,

609
00:32:52,636 --> 00:32:56,316
Speaker 1: the universe is gonna speak to me through Brendan and

610
00:32:56,396 --> 00:32:58,676
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just flow with it and see what happens.

611
00:32:58,676 --> 00:33:01,116
Speaker 1: But it's really cool because there were some songs like

612
00:33:01,516 --> 00:33:04,156
Speaker 1: Squid inc Is a good example of a song song

613
00:33:04,236 --> 00:33:06,516
Speaker 1: Brenda did not like squid ink at first, and he's like,

614
00:33:06,676 --> 00:33:08,756
Speaker 1: is it gone on? No, man, But the guys really

615
00:33:08,756 --> 00:33:10,996
Speaker 1: liked and they really wanted to do it, and Brandon

616
00:33:11,076 --> 00:33:12,676
Speaker 1: was really respectful of that. He's like, I don't know

617
00:33:12,676 --> 00:33:14,756
Speaker 1: about Screwed, Inc. But the guys like it. Let's keep

618
00:33:14,796 --> 00:33:16,436
Speaker 1: it in there. Let's see what happens, you know, because

619
00:33:16,516 --> 00:33:19,556
Speaker 1: I feel like he kind of understands that that universe

620
00:33:19,596 --> 00:33:21,676
Speaker 1: thing too, because we could go try it and it

621
00:33:21,796 --> 00:33:23,996
Speaker 1: just falls flat and doesn't work, or we try it

622
00:33:24,036 --> 00:33:26,956
Speaker 1: and everybody loves it and it's great. And I think

623
00:33:27,076 --> 00:33:30,556
Speaker 1: that whole thing was really really interesting because it was

624
00:33:30,596 --> 00:33:37,916
Speaker 1: this cool combination of like everybody's input, but everybody kind

625
00:33:37,916 --> 00:33:41,276
Speaker 1: of really removing their egos. And I feel like Brendon's

626
00:33:41,276 --> 00:33:43,756
Speaker 1: good at just channeling the universe as it comes through

627
00:33:44,116 --> 00:33:47,916
Speaker 1: and really just being like he himself. I forget how

628
00:33:47,916 --> 00:33:49,076
Speaker 1: I put it, but he's like, he's like, I think

629
00:33:49,076 --> 00:33:51,116
Speaker 1: I'm just hearing things, and I think that's how people

630
00:33:51,156 --> 00:33:51,676
Speaker 1: want to hear them.

631
00:33:51,836 --> 00:33:52,116
Speaker 4: I don't know.

632
00:33:52,476 --> 00:33:56,516
Speaker 1: He's like, it's just so interesting. It was just really refreshing.

633
00:33:57,316 --> 00:34:00,756
Speaker 3: As someone if you can, if it's possible to make

634
00:34:00,756 --> 00:34:02,996
Speaker 3: yourself sort of just like a fan of the band.

635
00:34:03,396 --> 00:34:07,796
Speaker 3: Listening to this album as a completed project, is it

636
00:34:07,876 --> 00:34:09,116
Speaker 3: different than passed out?

637
00:34:09,476 --> 00:34:10,796
Speaker 4: Like, how would you say it's different?

638
00:34:12,396 --> 00:34:14,476
Speaker 1: I think they're all different. I mean, I think that's

639
00:34:14,476 --> 00:34:17,396
Speaker 1: one thing we really consciously try to do is make

640
00:34:17,476 --> 00:34:20,756
Speaker 1: every album different and go to a different place, work

641
00:34:20,796 --> 00:34:23,236
Speaker 1: with a different person. We're always in a different frame

642
00:34:23,276 --> 00:34:25,636
Speaker 1: of mine, you know, different life things have always happened.

643
00:34:25,836 --> 00:34:27,836
Speaker 1: I think that's one thing. Probably anybody could look at

644
00:34:27,836 --> 00:34:31,036
Speaker 1: my morning jacket and say whether they liked the band

645
00:34:31,116 --> 00:34:33,236
Speaker 1: or not, that we're kind of always trying different things.

646
00:34:33,316 --> 00:34:36,076
Speaker 1: We're trying different styles, We're trying try and do this

647
00:34:36,156 --> 00:34:38,876
Speaker 1: and trying that. And I really think this album's same

648
00:34:38,876 --> 00:34:40,716
Speaker 1: thing because I feel like there's a lot of different flavors.

649
00:34:40,756 --> 00:34:44,636
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different styles. Yeah, And it was

650
00:34:44,676 --> 00:34:47,316
Speaker 1: just really interesting because, you know, over one hundred demos

651
00:34:47,396 --> 00:34:49,476
Speaker 1: or whatever, we chose twenty and then we narrowed it

652
00:34:49,556 --> 00:34:52,276
Speaker 1: down to fifteen, and then a couple didn't work at all,

653
00:34:52,436 --> 00:34:53,956
Speaker 1: you know, and you don't know why, a couple of

654
00:34:53,996 --> 00:34:56,036
Speaker 1: our favorite songs, you know, and we're just sitting there

655
00:34:56,356 --> 00:34:58,516
Speaker 1: scratching our head, and you know, Brandon and I were

656
00:34:58,516 --> 00:35:01,236
Speaker 1: trying to see if we could do anything to save them,

657
00:35:02,556 --> 00:35:05,196
Speaker 1: and a certain point you're like, okay, well those two

658
00:35:05,236 --> 00:35:07,996
Speaker 1: didn't work. You know, let's see what did work, you know.

659
00:35:08,036 --> 00:35:10,476
Speaker 1: And that was really cool thing too with Brennan, where

660
00:35:10,516 --> 00:35:12,516
Speaker 1: I feel like he was like, sometimes we going are

661
00:35:12,556 --> 00:35:15,756
Speaker 1: going to make record somebody, and we have fifteen songs

662
00:35:16,156 --> 00:35:17,876
Speaker 1: and ten of them don't work, and you're sitting there

663
00:35:17,876 --> 00:35:19,956
Speaker 1: with five songs and you're like, all right, man, I'll

664
00:35:19,956 --> 00:35:22,196
Speaker 1: see you in six months, go write some more songs. Yeah,

665
00:35:22,436 --> 00:35:25,196
Speaker 1: And so I think he would have been honest with

666
00:35:25,276 --> 00:35:27,276
Speaker 1: us too if he felt like we were at that point.

667
00:35:27,356 --> 00:35:30,356
Speaker 3: You know, did you ask him about that Rage album

668
00:35:30,436 --> 00:35:33,756
Speaker 3: that you like, did he tell you, like any stories

669
00:35:33,956 --> 00:35:36,436
Speaker 3: or anything about what, you know, other bands he's worked

670
00:35:36,476 --> 00:35:37,116
Speaker 3: with or whatever.

671
00:35:38,476 --> 00:35:40,756
Speaker 1: We did talk some about things, but that was the meant.

672
00:35:40,956 --> 00:35:45,316
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like he'll share stories that he

673
00:35:45,436 --> 00:35:49,476
Speaker 1: never shares them in this heroic ego way, you know,

674
00:35:49,556 --> 00:35:54,076
Speaker 1: cause a lot of people they are like into their legend, yeah,

675
00:35:54,116 --> 00:35:58,516
Speaker 1: and they're like sharing stories about I was Midnight and

676
00:35:58,596 --> 00:36:01,356
Speaker 1: Elton n I were gooding high in the back of

677
00:36:01,396 --> 00:36:03,796
Speaker 1: his rolling Royce. Yeah, and people are really into their

678
00:36:03,836 --> 00:36:05,876
Speaker 1: own legend. You know. It was really cool because Brennan,

679
00:36:05,956 --> 00:36:08,196
Speaker 1: like Brenna, would share little stories here or there if

680
00:36:08,196 --> 00:36:10,396
Speaker 1: there was like a something we're working on, He's like,

681
00:36:10,436 --> 00:36:12,236
Speaker 1: oh fuck, yeah, yeah, hell, you know, one time this

682
00:36:12,356 --> 00:36:14,156
Speaker 1: or that or this is that. But there's something that

683
00:36:14,276 --> 00:36:20,876
Speaker 1: just really really appealed to us about his lack of inflating.

684
00:36:20,956 --> 00:36:24,036
Speaker 1: He's you know, he's almost reluctant to share our stories.

685
00:36:24,076 --> 00:36:24,316
Speaker 3: You know that.

686
00:36:24,396 --> 00:36:26,876
Speaker 1: It was really really that that part he really did

687
00:36:26,956 --> 00:36:30,836
Speaker 1: seem humble and uh really but also very self assured

688
00:36:30,876 --> 00:36:33,356
Speaker 1: in a really beautiful way, like a beautiful confidence where

689
00:36:33,356 --> 00:36:36,316
Speaker 1: he's always ready to speak, speak his mind and he's

690
00:36:36,316 --> 00:36:37,916
Speaker 1: always going to tell you if he thinks he's something

691
00:36:38,036 --> 00:36:41,516
Speaker 1: and good or whatever, And uh, that was really really refreshing.

692
00:36:41,756 --> 00:36:43,756
Speaker 4: That sounds like a good coach. You said you wanted

693
00:36:43,756 --> 00:36:44,236
Speaker 4: a coach.

694
00:36:45,116 --> 00:36:46,316
Speaker 1: It really, it really was.

695
00:36:46,396 --> 00:36:49,476
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. One thing I was thinking about

696
00:36:49,556 --> 00:36:52,116
Speaker 3: my morning jacket. I saw that you guys have been

697
00:36:52,156 --> 00:36:54,836
Speaker 3: called like the best live band of your generation.

698
00:36:56,316 --> 00:36:59,356
Speaker 4: And one thing that seems unique.

699
00:36:59,316 --> 00:37:01,756
Speaker 3: About you guys and super cool is that you can

700
00:37:01,796 --> 00:37:04,796
Speaker 3: put out a studio album and then you sort of

701
00:37:05,916 --> 00:37:09,436
Speaker 3: can remix all the songs live on stage, so it

702
00:37:09,476 --> 00:37:12,996
Speaker 3: almost gives the songs a different like more than one life,

703
00:37:14,036 --> 00:37:15,916
Speaker 3: and that seems like it's it's really it could be

704
00:37:15,956 --> 00:37:17,996
Speaker 3: really fun for you guys to keep things kind of

705
00:37:18,036 --> 00:37:20,476
Speaker 3: like fresh and keep evolving them.

706
00:37:21,076 --> 00:37:23,276
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is. It's so cool and it's always

707
00:37:23,316 --> 00:37:25,956
Speaker 1: funy when people say things like best, when people use

708
00:37:25,996 --> 00:37:28,436
Speaker 1: those kind of words, it's like, it so funny. It's

709
00:37:28,476 --> 00:37:31,316
Speaker 1: like it's all it's all so subjective, you know what

710
00:37:31,356 --> 00:37:35,236
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all such an illusion that but yeah,

711
00:37:35,276 --> 00:37:37,716
Speaker 1: that's the beautiful thing is when you think of a song,

712
00:37:38,796 --> 00:37:41,876
Speaker 1: a recording of a song, it's just like a seed.

713
00:37:42,596 --> 00:37:44,756
Speaker 1: I mean, think about anything that grows. You know, you

714
00:37:44,836 --> 00:37:47,436
Speaker 1: plan a seed and a tree grows, and it looks

715
00:37:47,476 --> 00:37:49,356
Speaker 1: this way one day, but then it looks different the

716
00:37:49,356 --> 00:37:51,436
Speaker 1: next day. It looks different ten years from now, and

717
00:37:51,476 --> 00:37:52,916
Speaker 1: it looks and I feel like that's kind of how

718
00:37:52,996 --> 00:37:56,556
Speaker 1: every song is, is that it looks different every day

719
00:37:56,836 --> 00:37:59,036
Speaker 1: and depending on how you play it or depending on

720
00:37:59,076 --> 00:38:03,556
Speaker 1: where it goes. Some songs really lend themselves to exploding

721
00:38:03,596 --> 00:38:06,276
Speaker 1: and improvising and you know, and other songs don't you know,

722
00:38:06,316 --> 00:38:08,316
Speaker 1: the songs are like all right, here we are, it's

723
00:38:08,356 --> 00:38:10,916
Speaker 1: three minutes long, and this is it yeah, but even

724
00:38:10,956 --> 00:38:14,316
Speaker 1: those songs, they still they'll be faster or slower, or

725
00:38:14,436 --> 00:38:17,676
Speaker 1: they'll you'll be angry one day, you know it sounds different.

726
00:38:17,756 --> 00:38:20,836
Speaker 1: You'll be really happy one day it sounds different. But yeah,

727
00:38:20,836 --> 00:38:21,996
Speaker 1: it's so so interesting.

728
00:38:22,276 --> 00:38:24,356
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was thinking about that without in the Open

729
00:38:25,196 --> 00:38:31,276
Speaker 3: the song, and just wondering how that was gonna develop live,

730
00:38:31,796 --> 00:38:34,876
Speaker 3: And if when you're recording songs, do you think about

731
00:38:35,076 --> 00:38:36,876
Speaker 3: how it will develop live or are you.

732
00:38:36,996 --> 00:38:39,036
Speaker 4: Just concentrating on the studio version.

733
00:38:40,156 --> 00:38:42,236
Speaker 1: We do talk about that a lot and dream about

734
00:38:42,236 --> 00:38:44,036
Speaker 1: it and like, oh man, this is gonna be fun

735
00:38:44,076 --> 00:38:45,836
Speaker 1: to do live. You know, we say that a lot,

736
00:38:45,916 --> 00:38:47,996
Speaker 1: but uh, you also have to kind of let go

737
00:38:48,036 --> 00:38:50,356
Speaker 1: and let it be what it wants to be. And

738
00:38:50,476 --> 00:38:53,276
Speaker 1: some things like out in the Open's a good example

739
00:38:53,276 --> 00:38:54,836
Speaker 1: of a song that changed a lot. I mean, that

740
00:38:54,956 --> 00:38:59,876
Speaker 1: was just kind of a ukulele idea I had that

741
00:39:00,156 --> 00:39:03,076
Speaker 1: everybody liked, but they didn't know what would happen with it.

742
00:39:03,676 --> 00:39:06,996
Speaker 1: Everybody liked the riff a lot, and I had a melody.

743
00:39:07,036 --> 00:39:08,596
Speaker 1: I had, like the vocal melody, but I didn't have

744
00:39:08,596 --> 00:39:11,996
Speaker 1: any lyrics or anything. And Brendan really liked that riff

745
00:39:12,036 --> 00:39:14,996
Speaker 1: a lot and really like he was like, Okay, let's

746
00:39:15,036 --> 00:39:17,916
Speaker 1: just take this riff and let's think about it. Let's

747
00:39:17,956 --> 00:39:20,396
Speaker 1: you know, the ukulele turns into electric guitar and the

748
00:39:20,436 --> 00:39:22,796
Speaker 1: band comes in and it gets more exciting, and you know,

749
00:39:22,836 --> 00:39:26,836
Speaker 1: it like expands, and that his excitement got me excited,

750
00:39:26,836 --> 00:39:28,916
Speaker 1: so like I like started, you know, like working on

751
00:39:28,956 --> 00:39:33,236
Speaker 1: it thinking about it that way, and I'm sure live

752
00:39:33,316 --> 00:39:36,036
Speaker 1: it'll it'll grow even more. You know. It's like that's

753
00:39:36,116 --> 00:39:38,796
Speaker 1: just such a such a cool thing, such a such

754
00:39:38,796 --> 00:39:42,036
Speaker 1: a fun process. How it all unfolds?

755
00:39:42,516 --> 00:39:45,716
Speaker 3: Did my morning jacket go through like a Hamburg Beatles

756
00:39:46,196 --> 00:39:50,996
Speaker 3: moment where you all just played together live, like night

757
00:39:51,036 --> 00:39:54,236
Speaker 3: after night our you know, like big chunks of time

758
00:39:54,356 --> 00:39:56,836
Speaker 3: to really get good. Like, how did how did you

759
00:39:56,836 --> 00:39:58,036
Speaker 3: guys get good initially?

760
00:39:59,916 --> 00:40:03,196
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, I

761
00:40:03,196 --> 00:40:05,236
Speaker 1: think we just played so much. You know, I think

762
00:40:05,276 --> 00:40:08,076
Speaker 1: when you play that much, I think any band would

763
00:40:08,116 --> 00:40:11,476
Speaker 1: probably agree with that. That just the more you play,

764
00:40:12,036 --> 00:40:14,316
Speaker 1: the more it all becomes like second nature to you,

765
00:40:14,316 --> 00:40:16,036
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, You're just kind of locked

766
00:40:16,036 --> 00:40:18,396
Speaker 1: into each other. So when you start playing, I mean,

767
00:40:18,436 --> 00:40:24,076
Speaker 1: now when we play, we've been playing together in this

768
00:40:24,276 --> 00:40:27,556
Speaker 1: version of mine where jacket for twenty years. Over twenty

769
00:40:27,596 --> 00:40:30,756
Speaker 1: years now, you know, that's a lot of accumulated time,

770
00:40:31,236 --> 00:40:33,396
Speaker 1: and not only time on stage, but just time together

771
00:40:33,436 --> 00:40:35,956
Speaker 1: as people, you know, and you kind of know each

772
00:40:35,956 --> 00:40:37,796
Speaker 1: other more and more and more and more and more.

773
00:40:38,436 --> 00:40:40,116
Speaker 1: And you think of, yeah, like the Beatles in that

774
00:40:40,196 --> 00:40:43,836
Speaker 1: those Hamburg days or whatever, all that time they played

775
00:40:43,836 --> 00:40:47,556
Speaker 1: together and all those experiences really prepared them for when

776
00:40:47,596 --> 00:40:50,396
Speaker 1: they were together in the studio and faced with the

777
00:40:50,436 --> 00:40:53,516
Speaker 1: pressure of the world or whatever, they were ready to

778
00:40:53,596 --> 00:40:55,516
Speaker 1: do it because they had spent the time and done

779
00:40:55,516 --> 00:40:55,956
Speaker 1: the work.

780
00:40:56,636 --> 00:41:00,236
Speaker 3: Do you consider your relationship with the band as the

781
00:41:00,316 --> 00:41:03,636
Speaker 3: most important relationship in your life.

782
00:41:04,436 --> 00:41:06,516
Speaker 1: No, I don't really look at anything that way, because

783
00:41:06,516 --> 00:41:10,676
Speaker 1: it all flows and changes in every days different and

784
00:41:10,836 --> 00:41:13,756
Speaker 1: so I try to look at whoever's in my life

785
00:41:13,756 --> 00:41:15,756
Speaker 1: that day as the most important person in my life,

786
00:41:15,836 --> 00:41:19,396
Speaker 1: you know, whoever I'm encountering in that moment, because it's

787
00:41:19,436 --> 00:41:22,396
Speaker 1: really I think that's one thing we forget is everything

788
00:41:22,396 --> 00:41:24,636
Speaker 1: else is gone, you know, like right now it's just

789
00:41:24,716 --> 00:41:27,316
Speaker 1: you and me and there's nothing else happening right now.

790
00:41:27,476 --> 00:41:29,876
Speaker 1: The band isn't here, my parents aren't here, you know,

791
00:41:29,956 --> 00:41:33,676
Speaker 1: nobody's here right now, And I try to keep thinking

792
00:41:33,716 --> 00:41:36,396
Speaker 1: about that, because when you're on tour, you really have

793
00:41:36,436 --> 00:41:39,436
Speaker 1: to think about that in this interesting way because if

794
00:41:39,476 --> 00:41:43,556
Speaker 1: I'm trapped somewhere, it doesn't matter where I want to be.

795
00:41:44,116 --> 00:41:46,276
Speaker 1: I'm right there, you know, and it's like and I

796
00:41:46,276 --> 00:41:49,916
Speaker 1: can spend time wishing I was somewhere else, or I

797
00:41:49,956 --> 00:41:53,956
Speaker 1: can face reality and try and enjoy it, you know.

798
00:41:53,996 --> 00:41:58,516
Speaker 1: And I love how Michael Singer talks about He's wrote

799
00:41:58,516 --> 00:42:02,356
Speaker 1: The Untethered Soul and has a podcast that I really enjoy,

800
00:42:02,676 --> 00:42:04,596
Speaker 1: and he talks about reality and he's like, you want

801
00:42:04,596 --> 00:42:07,156
Speaker 1: to hear the definition of reality. Reality is that which

802
00:42:07,196 --> 00:42:10,156
Speaker 1: has already happened. It's like and you can't if you

803
00:42:10,156 --> 00:42:12,156
Speaker 1: wish you could change it. You know, you might not

804
00:42:12,316 --> 00:42:14,756
Speaker 1: like it, but it is, you know. That was another

805
00:42:14,836 --> 00:42:16,636
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I want to name the record

806
00:42:16,796 --> 00:42:19,716
Speaker 1: is it is like it is, you know, it's like

807
00:42:19,876 --> 00:42:22,156
Speaker 1: and I think that's something we all need to think

808
00:42:22,156 --> 00:42:25,596
Speaker 1: about if we want to change the world. If we're

809
00:42:25,596 --> 00:42:29,396
Speaker 1: not happy about the way the world is, it's okay

810
00:42:29,436 --> 00:42:31,596
Speaker 1: to feel upset about it. It's okay to wish it

811
00:42:32,516 --> 00:42:36,196
Speaker 1: was different and one way. But if you face it

812
00:42:36,316 --> 00:42:40,036
Speaker 1: directly as it is and say this is reality right now?

813
00:42:40,276 --> 00:42:41,916
Speaker 1: What am I going to do about it? How am

814
00:42:41,916 --> 00:42:43,436
Speaker 1: I going to need it? You know? How am I

815
00:42:43,516 --> 00:42:48,236
Speaker 1: going to show up for myself and for reality as

816
00:42:48,276 --> 00:42:51,316
Speaker 1: it is? And I think that's like some kind of

817
00:42:51,396 --> 00:42:56,156
Speaker 1: doorway to a better future. It's almost like you can't

818
00:42:56,276 --> 00:43:00,276
Speaker 1: think about the future. You've got to like really think

819
00:43:00,316 --> 00:43:04,836
Speaker 1: about what can I do in this present moment, starting close,

820
00:43:04,956 --> 00:43:07,076
Speaker 1: you know, starting with myself and the people around me,

821
00:43:07,116 --> 00:43:10,516
Speaker 1: and how can I make that better? And I just

822
00:43:10,556 --> 00:43:13,156
Speaker 1: keep trying to think about that. That's really been helping me.

823
00:43:15,156 --> 00:43:17,716
Speaker 2: One last break and we're back with Lea Rose and

824
00:43:17,796 --> 00:43:21,276
Speaker 2: Jim James.

825
00:43:22,796 --> 00:43:24,276
Speaker 4: What have you been listening to lately?

826
00:43:25,436 --> 00:43:27,956
Speaker 1: I feel like whenever anybody asks me that, my mind

827
00:43:27,996 --> 00:43:33,276
Speaker 1: goes blank, goes completely blank. I feel like I have

828
00:43:33,396 --> 00:43:35,356
Speaker 1: my regular diet.

829
00:43:35,316 --> 00:43:36,916
Speaker 4: Yeah, what's your diet?

830
00:43:37,236 --> 00:43:40,516
Speaker 1: My steady diet is My Sweet Lord by George Harrison.

831
00:43:40,556 --> 00:43:42,316
Speaker 1: I feel like I listened to that song kind of

832
00:43:42,356 --> 00:43:44,276
Speaker 1: on repeat all the time, like over and over and

833
00:43:44,316 --> 00:43:47,596
Speaker 1: over and over again. There's this band Magdalena Bay. Have

834
00:43:47,636 --> 00:43:51,036
Speaker 1: you heard them. They've got this song Image that I

835
00:43:51,076 --> 00:43:55,156
Speaker 1: really like. Oh. There's an artist Lacey Guthrie. They've got

836
00:43:55,156 --> 00:43:57,716
Speaker 1: this song called here she comes that. I really like.

837
00:43:59,556 --> 00:44:03,196
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like Kendrick Lamar is always blowing

838
00:44:03,236 --> 00:44:04,716
Speaker 1: my mind. I mean, I feel like we're kind of

839
00:44:04,756 --> 00:44:08,356
Speaker 1: like living in his era in a lot of ways.

840
00:44:08,436 --> 00:44:10,476
Speaker 1: I feel like there's this this thing that he's doing

841
00:44:10,516 --> 00:44:12,916
Speaker 1: that's speaking to so many people. I really like that

842
00:44:12,996 --> 00:44:16,996
Speaker 1: dough Chi record, Like, I feel like the vibe that

843
00:44:16,996 --> 00:44:20,036
Speaker 1: that's coming from that is really powerful. Yeah. God, I

844
00:44:20,036 --> 00:44:21,836
Speaker 1: mean there's just like that's the thing. It's like the

845
00:44:21,916 --> 00:44:26,196
Speaker 1: problem and the benefit of the digital age or whatever.

846
00:44:26,196 --> 00:44:29,556
Speaker 1: There's there's so much great, so much great music, but

847
00:44:29,596 --> 00:44:32,556
Speaker 1: it's almost like this title wave. Yes, yeah, you're trying

848
00:44:32,876 --> 00:44:34,636
Speaker 1: trying to hold on to any of it, you know,

849
00:44:34,676 --> 00:44:37,956
Speaker 1: it's all there's just like so much for sure.

850
00:44:38,396 --> 00:44:41,356
Speaker 3: And I saw that you were in the the Bob

851
00:44:41,436 --> 00:44:43,036
Speaker 3: Dylan the the.

852
00:44:43,036 --> 00:44:44,836
Speaker 1: Movie were not I'm not there.

853
00:44:44,916 --> 00:44:47,396
Speaker 4: I'm not there. Yeah, what was that experience?

854
00:44:47,516 --> 00:44:51,476
Speaker 1: Like it was wild? It was so beautiful. I think

855
00:44:51,516 --> 00:44:54,916
Speaker 1: originally they said Hank Williams the Third was supposed to

856
00:44:54,996 --> 00:44:57,956
Speaker 1: do that part or whatever. Yeah, for some reason he

857
00:44:57,996 --> 00:45:01,236
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. And Randall Poster, who's one of the

858
00:45:01,236 --> 00:45:04,116
Speaker 1: greatest music supervisors of all time, who's done like all

859
00:45:04,156 --> 00:45:07,036
Speaker 1: the Wes Anderson films and so many amazing films. He

860
00:45:07,156 --> 00:45:10,836
Speaker 1: was the music supervisor and uh I was living in

861
00:45:10,876 --> 00:45:13,796
Speaker 1: New York at the time, and he called me up

862
00:45:13,796 --> 00:45:16,676
Speaker 1: and he's like, Hey, do you want to sing this

863
00:45:16,676 --> 00:45:19,276
Speaker 1: this Bob Dylan song going to Alcapolca. I was like,

864
00:45:19,316 --> 00:45:22,276
Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite Dylan songs. I love the

865
00:45:22,276 --> 00:45:25,756
Speaker 1: Basement tapes and I love that that era of Dylan.

866
00:45:26,316 --> 00:45:30,036
Speaker 1: So we popped over to this studio and Colexico had

867
00:45:30,036 --> 00:45:34,676
Speaker 1: already recorded the music and I sang the track and

868
00:45:34,716 --> 00:45:37,356
Speaker 1: it all worked out, and then we flew out to

869
00:45:37,396 --> 00:45:44,356
Speaker 1: Montreal to film the scene. I was like painting. I

870
00:45:44,356 --> 00:45:45,796
Speaker 1: had to paint my face to kind of be like

871
00:45:45,836 --> 00:45:49,916
Speaker 1: the Rolling Thunder era Dylan, but I wasn't. I wasn't

872
00:45:49,956 --> 00:45:52,196
Speaker 1: like supposed to be him or anything. I'm just supposed

873
00:45:52,196 --> 00:45:55,316
Speaker 1: to be this band leader that looks like him or

874
00:45:55,396 --> 00:45:57,796
Speaker 1: reminds you of him from that era or whatever. And

875
00:45:57,836 --> 00:46:00,276
Speaker 1: it was so funny because I took the white face paint.

876
00:46:00,396 --> 00:46:03,396
Speaker 1: The makeup lady came and gave me the face paint,

877
00:46:03,436 --> 00:46:05,796
Speaker 1: and they're like, and I knew that era of Dylan

878
00:46:05,836 --> 00:46:07,756
Speaker 1: or whatever. She's like, so I'll let you put the

879
00:46:08,356 --> 00:46:10,916
Speaker 1: paint on or whatever, you know, and I like was

880
00:46:10,956 --> 00:46:13,276
Speaker 1: so nervous and so terrified. I wanted to do a

881
00:46:13,316 --> 00:46:16,116
Speaker 1: really great job to put all this light paint all

882
00:46:16,156 --> 00:46:18,196
Speaker 1: over my face, like so much. There's like, you know,

883
00:46:18,236 --> 00:46:20,436
Speaker 1: probably like two inches of paint sticking on my face.

884
00:46:20,516 --> 00:46:22,556
Speaker 1: And she comes back in and she's like, geez man,

885
00:46:22,836 --> 00:46:24,516
Speaker 1: She's like, you don't have to do that much. She's like,

886
00:46:24,956 --> 00:46:26,596
Speaker 1: let's get because if he would have done it, he

887
00:46:26,636 --> 00:46:28,676
Speaker 1: probably just would have you know, put it on pretty

888
00:46:28,756 --> 00:46:30,116
Speaker 1: quick or whatever. And I was it was just such

889
00:46:30,116 --> 00:46:32,716
Speaker 1: a funny moment of like that thing, you know, that

890
00:46:32,876 --> 00:46:36,956
Speaker 1: over perfectionist thing kind of coming in and biting you

891
00:46:37,036 --> 00:46:40,236
Speaker 1: in the ass, right, so funny. So like today she

892
00:46:40,316 --> 00:46:41,676
Speaker 1: helped me, like, you know, we took some of it

893
00:46:41,676 --> 00:46:43,956
Speaker 1: off or whatever, and it was amazing. It was just

894
00:46:43,956 --> 00:46:45,316
Speaker 1: such a cool part to be a part of it.

895
00:46:45,436 --> 00:46:48,156
Speaker 4: That's so cool. What a cool experience, especially for someone

896
00:46:48,156 --> 00:46:48,836
Speaker 4: who loves stealing.

897
00:46:49,436 --> 00:46:51,316
Speaker 1: Oh man, it was unbelievable.

898
00:46:51,396 --> 00:46:52,276
Speaker 4: Have you ever met him?

899
00:46:53,036 --> 00:46:55,516
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean not really met him because he but

900
00:46:55,596 --> 00:46:58,116
Speaker 1: we I got to sing with him a couple of

901
00:46:58,156 --> 00:47:00,836
Speaker 1: times when we went on tour with him on the

902
00:47:01,156 --> 00:47:04,956
Speaker 1: Americana Brama tour we did when it was I don't know,

903
00:47:04,996 --> 00:47:07,796
Speaker 1: ten years ago or something, and that was really fascinating

904
00:47:07,836 --> 00:47:12,636
Speaker 1: because it was us and Will Coo and Dylan and

905
00:47:12,676 --> 00:47:14,556
Speaker 1: they had sold us on the idea of the tour

906
00:47:15,116 --> 00:47:17,756
Speaker 1: that he wanted to play with everybody a lot. They're like,

907
00:47:17,836 --> 00:47:20,876
Speaker 1: Dylan really wants to play with all the bands, and

908
00:47:20,916 --> 00:47:23,236
Speaker 1: like we pictured ourselves sitting around the campfire at midnight,

909
00:47:23,356 --> 00:47:25,596
Speaker 1: like let's learn all of desire or whatever, you know,

910
00:47:25,636 --> 00:47:28,036
Speaker 1: all these like and of course we get to the tour.

911
00:47:28,276 --> 00:47:30,636
Speaker 1: We don't see him, we don't hear from him, we

912
00:47:30,716 --> 00:47:32,796
Speaker 1: don't meet him. You know, you you never even see

913
00:47:32,836 --> 00:47:33,836
Speaker 1: him in catering or anything.

914
00:47:33,836 --> 00:47:33,956
Speaker 3: You know.

915
00:47:34,036 --> 00:47:36,396
Speaker 1: His bus pulls up, he gets off the bus, plays

916
00:47:36,396 --> 00:47:38,956
Speaker 1: this show, gets on the bus leaves. You know. That's

917
00:47:39,476 --> 00:47:41,996
Speaker 1: and but then one night his bass player comes up

918
00:47:42,036 --> 00:47:43,596
Speaker 1: to me and he's like, he's like, I think Bob

919
00:47:43,676 --> 00:47:45,316
Speaker 1: wants you. Was sitting to night and he gives me

920
00:47:45,316 --> 00:47:49,636
Speaker 1: a CD of this Reverend Gary Davis song that I

921
00:47:50,276 --> 00:47:53,796
Speaker 1: I didn't know, and uh, Jeff from Wilco and I

922
00:47:54,676 --> 00:47:56,916
Speaker 1: were like, go in the backstage and we've got our

923
00:47:56,956 --> 00:47:59,756
Speaker 1: guitars and we're like, you know, we've got like whatever.

924
00:47:59,796 --> 00:48:02,796
Speaker 1: A couple hours until we're supposed to sit him, sit

925
00:48:02,876 --> 00:48:04,756
Speaker 1: him with him, and you know, yeah, we're both like

926
00:48:04,836 --> 00:48:07,116
Speaker 1: terrified and we're trying to learn the song. And in

927
00:48:07,276 --> 00:48:09,596
Speaker 1: the bass player Tony he's like, he's like, let's do

928
00:48:09,636 --> 00:48:11,676
Speaker 1: this in the key of D and I don't really

929
00:48:11,716 --> 00:48:13,756
Speaker 1: know keys or anything. So we're like, okay, if we'd

930
00:48:13,756 --> 00:48:16,836
Speaker 1: like learn it, and I swear like five minutes before

931
00:48:16,836 --> 00:48:19,596
Speaker 1: we're supposed to go on, the guitar tech comes back

932
00:48:19,636 --> 00:48:21,276
Speaker 1: and he's like, I think Dylan wants to do it

933
00:48:21,316 --> 00:48:25,116
Speaker 1: and be flat. So we're like, okay, do you to

934
00:48:25,116 --> 00:48:26,836
Speaker 1: be flat? What is that? You know, we're like trying

935
00:48:26,836 --> 00:48:29,196
Speaker 1: to figure out and I don't know the song well

936
00:48:29,236 --> 00:48:30,636
Speaker 1: at all or whatever, you know, and then we's like

937
00:48:30,916 --> 00:48:33,316
Speaker 1: go out, you know. I mean he was really nice

938
00:48:33,316 --> 00:48:35,316
Speaker 1: on stage, you know, he welcomed us on stage or whatever,

939
00:48:35,356 --> 00:48:37,956
Speaker 1: and we you know, stumbled our way through the song,

940
00:48:38,076 --> 00:48:41,876
Speaker 1: and uh, we did. We did a couple of Revengdary

941
00:48:41,916 --> 00:48:44,356
Speaker 1: Davis songs, and then we did the Weight by the

942
00:48:44,436 --> 00:48:47,396
Speaker 1: band like four or five times, and every night he

943
00:48:47,396 --> 00:48:49,436
Speaker 1: would change the key of that, so it was like

944
00:48:49,476 --> 00:48:52,236
Speaker 1: constantly going up and down. You know. It's like it

945
00:48:52,316 --> 00:48:55,876
Speaker 1: was so wild. But it was so crazy because you

946
00:48:55,956 --> 00:48:58,956
Speaker 1: never got to like spend any time with him or anything,

947
00:48:58,996 --> 00:49:01,356
Speaker 1: like we didn't have a conversation or anything. But when

948
00:49:01,396 --> 00:49:05,316
Speaker 1: we were playing with him on stage, one of the

949
00:49:05,316 --> 00:49:08,916
Speaker 1: most unbelievable things I've ever seen, like like looking over

950
00:49:08,956 --> 00:49:16,156
Speaker 1: it him and he is gone. I mean he's completely lost,

951
00:49:16,276 --> 00:49:21,396
Speaker 1: Like his eyes were somewhere, you know, like tapped into

952
00:49:21,436 --> 00:49:25,996
Speaker 1: something that really was. I think that like we're all

953
00:49:26,116 --> 00:49:29,756
Speaker 1: part of this you know, for lack of a better word,

954
00:49:29,796 --> 00:49:33,516
Speaker 1: cosmic ocean or consciousness or whatever that I really believe

955
00:49:33,516 --> 00:49:37,796
Speaker 1: we're all tied into and we're all just little nodes

956
00:49:37,836 --> 00:49:40,436
Speaker 1: off the same a wall of electricity, or we're little

957
00:49:40,476 --> 00:49:43,876
Speaker 1: waves off the same ocean or whatever. And occasionally a

958
00:49:43,916 --> 00:49:53,156
Speaker 1: person comes along that somehow their energy speaks to everybody,

959
00:49:53,196 --> 00:49:55,996
Speaker 1: you know, in this different way, you know, like Dylan does,

960
00:49:56,076 --> 00:49:59,236
Speaker 1: you know, and there's just this thing like being two

961
00:49:59,276 --> 00:50:01,396
Speaker 1: feet away from him, you know, looking at him, when

962
00:50:01,436 --> 00:50:05,156
Speaker 1: I was like I saw that wow thing or whatever.

963
00:50:05,236 --> 00:50:07,716
Speaker 1: I guess that must be his connection to the thing,

964
00:50:07,836 --> 00:50:11,076
Speaker 1: you know, because it was like really was no one

965
00:50:11,236 --> 00:50:14,836
Speaker 1: was there in his body. You know, It's like he

966
00:50:15,516 --> 00:50:20,516
Speaker 1: was in that place that I think we all know

967
00:50:20,756 --> 00:50:24,276
Speaker 1: that place musicians know it is the place when they're

968
00:50:24,396 --> 00:50:27,156
Speaker 1: lost in great music, you know, and they're they're lost

969
00:50:27,196 --> 00:50:29,316
Speaker 1: in the moment. And I think the place most of

970
00:50:29,356 --> 00:50:32,436
Speaker 1: it us know at best is like in love, you know,

971
00:50:32,716 --> 00:50:37,596
Speaker 1: making love or that at that part of life where you're, yeah,

972
00:50:37,676 --> 00:50:40,436
Speaker 1: you are gone, you know, you've you've forgotten all about

973
00:50:40,476 --> 00:50:43,636
Speaker 1: this human experience and you are lost in the energy

974
00:50:43,636 --> 00:50:46,276
Speaker 1: of love and God. And uh, that was one of

975
00:50:46,276 --> 00:50:49,196
Speaker 1: the coolest things I've ever gotten to see is stand

976
00:50:49,476 --> 00:50:52,756
Speaker 1: so close to uh, a hero like that and see

977
00:50:53,516 --> 00:50:58,316
Speaker 1: that force was just it was unbelievable.

978
00:50:58,356 --> 00:50:59,116
Speaker 4: That's incredible.

979
00:51:00,156 --> 00:51:00,876
Speaker 1: Yeah.

980
00:51:00,956 --> 00:51:03,676
Speaker 4: Have you played with anybody else and had that experience?

981
00:51:05,076 --> 00:51:07,716
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, We've been so lucky. It's so

982
00:51:07,836 --> 00:51:14,116
Speaker 1: fortunate to like share the stage with so many unbelievable artists.

983
00:51:14,196 --> 00:51:17,276
Speaker 1: You know, it's just like it it is, uh, I

984
00:51:17,396 --> 00:51:20,996
Speaker 1: just yeah, or even seeing people like I got to

985
00:51:20,996 --> 00:51:24,636
Speaker 1: see Edda James before she passed away, you know, and

986
00:51:25,196 --> 00:51:28,836
Speaker 1: the energy you know, coming off of her, you know,

987
00:51:28,996 --> 00:51:32,156
Speaker 1: just like really you felt like the place was going

988
00:51:32,196 --> 00:51:34,756
Speaker 1: to be ripped apart. You know, it's like the the

989
00:51:34,836 --> 00:51:37,116
Speaker 1: walls are gonna be ripped off the place, you know,

990
00:51:37,116 --> 00:51:42,396
Speaker 1: the energy is so insanely for us. Or seeing Jonny

991
00:51:42,436 --> 00:51:45,316
Speaker 1: Mitchell at the Hollywood Bowl last year, you know, just

992
00:51:46,156 --> 00:51:49,356
Speaker 1: in the audience, you know, like not I'm like and

993
00:51:49,396 --> 00:51:52,396
Speaker 1: I've always really loved and respected Jonny Mitchell, but it's

994
00:51:52,396 --> 00:51:55,756
Speaker 1: never fully been my thing. It's never fully spoken to

995
00:51:55,836 --> 00:51:58,756
Speaker 1: me fully deeply, because a lot of it, honestly just

996
00:51:58,756 --> 00:52:01,276
Speaker 1: feels kind of over my head. It's very complex and

997
00:52:01,436 --> 00:52:04,436
Speaker 1: very layered, and a lot of times I really so

998
00:52:04,556 --> 00:52:10,276
Speaker 1: much respect and so much beauty. But seeing her, the

999
00:52:11,396 --> 00:52:16,556
Speaker 1: unbelievable energy coming out of her, of like she's seen

1000
00:52:16,636 --> 00:52:19,556
Speaker 1: it all and lived to tell the tale now and

1001
00:52:19,636 --> 00:52:25,436
Speaker 1: you're seeing her in person all almost like she's she's

1002
00:52:25,916 --> 00:52:28,396
Speaker 1: all of the energy of everything that's ever happened in

1003
00:52:28,436 --> 00:52:31,796
Speaker 1: the history of mankind or whatever is like coming out

1004
00:52:31,836 --> 00:52:34,676
Speaker 1: of her as she sits on her throne. And it's

1005
00:52:34,676 --> 00:52:37,516
Speaker 1: like I kept getting this vision of her as like

1006
00:52:38,236 --> 00:52:41,196
Speaker 1: the power of like Marlon Brando and the Godfather or wherever,

1007
00:52:41,276 --> 00:52:44,716
Speaker 1: you know. But it's like, but like ten thousand Marlon Brandos,

1008
00:52:44,716 --> 00:52:47,156
Speaker 1: you know, just like the power coming off her just

1009
00:52:47,196 --> 00:52:50,556
Speaker 1: like I mean, like I couldn't believe it, you know,

1010
00:52:50,596 --> 00:52:52,916
Speaker 1: It's just like that's one really inspiring thing too that

1011
00:52:52,956 --> 00:52:54,476
Speaker 1: we talk about a lot as a band is like

1012
00:52:55,876 --> 00:53:01,396
Speaker 1: you see these people that really show you the age

1013
00:53:01,876 --> 00:53:04,436
Speaker 1: doesn't matter the way we think it does, and age

1014
00:53:04,476 --> 00:53:07,396
Speaker 1: is relative, you know, and nobody can help the help

1015
00:53:07,436 --> 00:53:09,916
Speaker 1: complications they may have, or if you have bad health

1016
00:53:09,956 --> 00:53:12,596
Speaker 1: or something happens to you, you know, obviously nobody can change

1017
00:53:12,676 --> 00:53:17,356
Speaker 1: or help that. But beyond that, seeing the Rolling Stones,

1018
00:53:17,476 --> 00:53:19,036
Speaker 1: I've seen them four or five times in the last

1019
00:53:19,036 --> 00:53:24,876
Speaker 1: few years, just unbelievable, you know, like they're not over

1020
00:53:24,916 --> 00:53:27,996
Speaker 1: the hill, old guys. You know, they're the greatest rock

1021
00:53:28,036 --> 00:53:32,076
Speaker 1: and roll band of all time and they're still alive. Yeah,

1022
00:53:32,076 --> 00:53:34,756
Speaker 1: and they're still blowing your mind, you know. Or you

1023
00:53:34,756 --> 00:53:37,996
Speaker 1: see Neil Young saying that still blowing your mind, you know,

1024
00:53:38,076 --> 00:53:41,796
Speaker 1: like still and that kind of stuff is just so inspiring.

1025
00:53:43,076 --> 00:53:44,836
Speaker 1: I've talked with the Specimen in the day. It's like

1026
00:53:46,516 --> 00:53:50,276
Speaker 1: we're all the first to see rock and roll grow old.

1027
00:53:50,876 --> 00:53:54,196
Speaker 1: Like this is all so new, Yeah, you know, it's

1028
00:53:54,196 --> 00:53:58,036
Speaker 1: all so new, and there's so many people like Jimmy

1029
00:53:58,076 --> 00:54:00,316
Speaker 1: Hendricks or whatever who died, or John Lennon who died

1030
00:54:00,356 --> 00:54:02,196
Speaker 1: or whatever. But then there's still so many people like

1031
00:54:02,196 --> 00:54:06,116
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney or like I still have gotten to hear

1032
00:54:06,756 --> 00:54:10,916
Speaker 1: Keith Richards ripped my mind in half with Gode. You

1033
00:54:10,956 --> 00:54:13,796
Speaker 1: know when he hits some big you know, it's just like.

1034
00:54:15,396 --> 00:54:19,916
Speaker 3: Just so lucky, so lucky to witness that unbelievably lucky.

1035
00:54:20,036 --> 00:54:24,116
Speaker 4: Yeah. How are you feeling about touring these days?

1036
00:54:25,156 --> 00:54:26,996
Speaker 1: It's so funny And we were talking about this the

1037
00:54:27,076 --> 00:54:31,076
Speaker 1: other day because we have never felt better about playing

1038
00:54:31,156 --> 00:54:34,756
Speaker 1: shows like the band as a unit, as like a

1039
00:54:35,356 --> 00:54:39,716
Speaker 1: like everything feels so beautiful and so unbelievable, and we've

1040
00:54:39,716 --> 00:54:42,796
Speaker 1: never felt better about like the music and the brotherhood

1041
00:54:42,836 --> 00:54:47,516
Speaker 1: and the harmony and the experience with everybody coming to

1042
00:54:47,596 --> 00:54:50,956
Speaker 1: the shows and the circle that's created by the audience

1043
00:54:51,036 --> 00:54:53,276
Speaker 1: and us, and the whole thing is it has never

1044
00:54:53,356 --> 00:54:56,396
Speaker 1: been more beautiful. And simultaneously, I feel like the more

1045
00:54:57,116 --> 00:54:59,836
Speaker 1: sober I've gotten in peaceful I've gotten, the harder the

1046
00:54:59,876 --> 00:55:03,836
Speaker 1: travels become. So it's been like this this crazy, uh

1047
00:55:04,516 --> 00:55:06,836
Speaker 1: back and forth thing of like oh my god, like

1048
00:55:07,036 --> 00:55:09,116
Speaker 1: I cannot sleep on the bus anymore, you know things

1049
00:55:09,236 --> 00:55:09,956
Speaker 1: like that where you're.

1050
00:55:09,836 --> 00:55:11,956
Speaker 4: Like, is it because you have back back stuff?

1051
00:55:12,036 --> 00:55:12,236
Speaker 2: Right?

1052
00:55:13,556 --> 00:55:16,116
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean a litany of that kind of stuff.

1053
00:55:16,236 --> 00:55:20,116
Speaker 1: It's just it's just interesting that. Uh. I think everybody

1054
00:55:20,156 --> 00:55:22,876
Speaker 1: recognizes that kind of thing in the in their own

1055
00:55:22,916 --> 00:55:27,756
Speaker 1: life where it's like nothing is ever one thing, you know,

1056
00:55:27,756 --> 00:55:30,916
Speaker 1: it's like always both had you know. I love this

1057
00:55:31,036 --> 00:55:33,116
Speaker 1: new I feel like this phrase. I don't know when

1058
00:55:33,156 --> 00:55:35,116
Speaker 1: it was born, but I feel like it's really come

1059
00:55:35,196 --> 00:55:37,596
Speaker 1: to more and more light in the past five years

1060
00:55:38,316 --> 00:55:41,036
Speaker 1: five years or so, this both hand things. And I

1061
00:55:41,036 --> 00:55:43,436
Speaker 1: think about that and it's like touring is this huge

1062
00:55:43,476 --> 00:55:46,116
Speaker 1: both and you know, it's like I've never loved playing

1063
00:55:46,156 --> 00:55:49,396
Speaker 1: shows more and I've never not enjoyed traveling more, you know.

1064
00:55:49,476 --> 00:55:51,716
Speaker 1: All the same time, it's like the travel is just

1065
00:55:51,756 --> 00:55:55,396
Speaker 1: so difficult for me. But it's like, but it's part

1066
00:55:55,436 --> 00:55:57,796
Speaker 1: of the what I mean, what can you do until

1067
00:55:57,836 --> 00:56:01,876
Speaker 1: they get the teleporter and then it we gotta do it.

1068
00:56:01,996 --> 00:56:04,636
Speaker 3: We got to do How do you get yourself in

1069
00:56:04,716 --> 00:56:06,276
Speaker 3: the mood for a show if you can't do like

1070
00:56:06,316 --> 00:56:08,276
Speaker 3: a couple of shots or whatever, it is, like, how

1071
00:56:08,316 --> 00:56:09,996
Speaker 3: do you get into them the mind frame?

1072
00:56:10,996 --> 00:56:15,396
Speaker 1: Well, I've never drank before shows. I always drank after shows,

1073
00:56:15,836 --> 00:56:17,916
Speaker 1: but I've never drank before shows because I'm really like,

1074
00:56:18,596 --> 00:56:21,756
Speaker 1: my dad really gave me a really good work ethic.

1075
00:56:21,756 --> 00:56:23,676
Speaker 1: I feel like in a really like sense of you know,

1076
00:56:23,756 --> 00:56:25,916
Speaker 1: like gott gotta show up for work and you gotta

1077
00:56:25,956 --> 00:56:29,196
Speaker 1: be ready to work, you know. But well, I've got

1078
00:56:29,236 --> 00:56:31,156
Speaker 1: a whole list of things I do. I mean, I've

1079
00:56:31,196 --> 00:56:33,516
Speaker 1: really got like a whole vocal warm up thing I do,

1080
00:56:33,636 --> 00:56:39,116
Speaker 1: and a whole meditation thing, and just like a quiet

1081
00:56:39,196 --> 00:56:41,916
Speaker 1: thing and an exercise thing and a music thing. And

1082
00:56:41,956 --> 00:56:45,036
Speaker 1: you know, it's like this series of like simultaneously getting

1083
00:56:45,036 --> 00:56:48,436
Speaker 1: relaxed and getting excited, you know, and like getting your

1084
00:56:48,476 --> 00:56:52,436
Speaker 1: voice warmed up so much energy and then we have

1085
00:56:52,476 --> 00:56:55,556
Speaker 1: a we always do a huddle, you know, and get

1086
00:56:55,596 --> 00:57:00,756
Speaker 1: our band energy going. And and I I asked Alice

1087
00:57:00,756 --> 00:57:04,036
Speaker 1: Coltrane a long time ago if we could use a

1088
00:57:04,076 --> 00:57:07,196
Speaker 1: piece of her music to as our walk on music,

1089
00:57:07,236 --> 00:57:09,996
Speaker 1: to kind of bless the stage. So there's this really

1090
00:57:10,876 --> 00:57:13,196
Speaker 1: cool piece I cut together of a couple of her

1091
00:57:13,956 --> 00:57:16,676
Speaker 1: instrumental portions that I feel like, is this really cool

1092
00:57:16,756 --> 00:57:19,276
Speaker 1: like thing that kind of comes out and like clears

1093
00:57:19,316 --> 00:57:22,716
Speaker 1: the energy of the stage before we come on. So yeah,

1094
00:57:22,796 --> 00:57:25,676
Speaker 1: just things like that. I try to pray. I try

1095
00:57:25,716 --> 00:57:28,556
Speaker 1: to really pray to the energy of the day and

1096
00:57:29,116 --> 00:57:34,956
Speaker 1: whatever forces might be there that just then it is

1097
00:57:34,996 --> 00:57:37,396
Speaker 1: what it is, and I can accept that, you know that.

1098
00:57:37,436 --> 00:57:39,956
Speaker 1: I hope it's a great experience for the audience, and

1099
00:57:39,956 --> 00:57:41,556
Speaker 1: I hope that it's a great experience for us, And

1100
00:57:41,556 --> 00:57:46,396
Speaker 1: I hope that I imagine the whole venue surrounded in like

1101
00:57:46,476 --> 00:57:49,516
Speaker 1: a golden light, and like try to imagine all of

1102
00:57:49,636 --> 00:57:53,436
Speaker 1: us surrounded in like some kind of protective, healing light.

1103
00:57:53,796 --> 00:57:59,516
Speaker 1: But then simultaneously, like, please help me accept whatever doesn't

1104
00:57:59,516 --> 00:58:01,956
Speaker 1: go right, Yeah, because that's going to happen too, you know,

1105
00:58:02,076 --> 00:58:04,596
Speaker 1: like because that's so so much out of your control

1106
00:58:04,596 --> 00:58:06,156
Speaker 1: when you step on the stage, you know, it's like

1107
00:58:06,836 --> 00:58:08,156
Speaker 1: and that's part of it, I think, is trying to

1108
00:58:08,156 --> 00:58:08,596
Speaker 1: accept that.

1109
00:58:10,076 --> 00:58:12,356
Speaker 3: Well, Jim, thank you so much for talking, Thanks for

1110
00:58:12,396 --> 00:58:16,836
Speaker 3: being so open. Thanks, Yeah, congrats on the new album.

1111
00:58:16,996 --> 00:58:18,436
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, thanks for having me.

1112
00:58:20,756 --> 00:58:23,196
Speaker 2: In episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist

1113
00:58:23,236 --> 00:58:25,996
Speaker 2: of our favorite mind Morning Jacket and Jim James tracks

1114
00:58:26,476 --> 00:58:28,556
Speaker 2: and again. To see the video version of this episode,

1115
00:58:28,596 --> 00:58:32,196
Speaker 2: visit YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, and be

1116
00:58:32,236 --> 00:58:35,036
Speaker 2: sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod.

1117
00:58:35,676 --> 00:58:38,876
Speaker 2: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken

1118
00:58:38,876 --> 00:58:41,956
Speaker 2: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing

1119
00:58:42,036 --> 00:58:45,276
Speaker 2: help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is

1120
00:58:45,316 --> 00:58:49,596
Speaker 2: Ben Tolliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.

1121
00:58:49,996 --> 00:58:52,796
Speaker 2: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider

1122
00:58:52,796 --> 00:58:57,156
Speaker 2: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

1123
00:58:57,276 --> 00:59:00,476
Speaker 2: that offers bonus content and acthlete listening for four ninety

1124
00:59:00,556 --> 00:59:05,036
Speaker 2: nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions,

1125
00:59:05,556 --> 00:59:08,196
Speaker 2: and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,

1126
00:59:08,236 --> 00:59:11,036
Speaker 2: and review us on your podcast app or Theme Music's

1127
00:59:11,076 --> 00:59:11,836
Speaker 2: back any beats.

1128
00:59:12,036 --> 00:59:13,116
Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond.