Speaker 1: Contrary to what you all believe. Your kids don't owe
Speaker 1: you a damn thing.
Speaker 2: That's a fact.
Speaker 3: And I will not throw in their face the things
Speaker 3: that I have quote unquote sacrificed for them when they're older.
Speaker 2: That was my choice.
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm Kadeen and I'm Devout, and we're the Ellises.
Speaker 4: You may know us from posting funny videos with our.
Speaker 3: Voice and reading each other publicly as.
Speaker 2: A form of therpy.
Speaker 4: Wait, I make you need therapy most days. Wow.
Speaker 2: Oh, and one more important thing to mention, we're married.
Speaker 4: Yes, sir, we are.
Speaker 1: We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of
Speaker 1: li's most taboo topics.
Speaker 2: Things most folks don't want to talk about.
Speaker 1: Through the lens of a millennial married couple. Dead ass
Speaker 1: is a term that we say every day. So when
Speaker 1: we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts one hundred
Speaker 1: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Speaker 4: We about to take philos off to our whole new level.
Speaker 2: Dead ass starts right now.
Speaker 1: Story time. So I'm gonna take this back not too far.
Speaker 1: This was this was recent. You know, me and Jackson
Speaker 1: been you know what I'm saying, going through our thing, y'all, been.
Speaker 1: I've been trying to navigate this parent dad coach thing.
Speaker 4: You know, it's very difficult.
Speaker 1: And there was a moment when we were driving back
Speaker 1: and I had said to him and I said to him,
Speaker 1: in a minute, I said it to him. It's going
Speaker 1: to transfer me back to another story when I was
Speaker 1: growing up. We're in the car and Jackson is sitting
Speaker 1: there and he's and I'm like, yo, you seem like
Speaker 1: this don't matter, and this don't matter to you, playing
Speaker 1: these games, doing all this other stuff. You know how
Speaker 1: much money I spent on training it. The minute I
Speaker 1: started it, I stopped. You yourself, that's dope. And I
Speaker 1: gonna tell you why I caught myself. I grew up
Speaker 1: in the house and my parents you tell me all
Speaker 1: the time, I want to stay sacrifice. But I remember
Speaker 1: getting slapped one time because we were having a family
Speaker 1: caucus and my mom was telling us all the things
Speaker 1: that she wanted us. And when I said us, me
Speaker 1: and my brother Brian, because Tory was only nine at
Speaker 1: the time, so to act like she was an invalid
Speaker 1: when she wasn't, because at nine I.
Speaker 4: Was responsible for.
Speaker 1: She at that time, they after she her hands didn't work,
Speaker 1: her work, but I was responsible since I was eight,
Speaker 1: taking care of Brian after school, before school homework. So
Speaker 1: I was just like, not the same fear. And then
Speaker 1: my mom had said to me, you know how much
Speaker 1: me and your father's sacrifice to give you guys this life,
Speaker 1: and you complain And I said sacrifice, I came here
Speaker 1: off y'all guilty pleasures.
Speaker 3: How old were young? Yeah?
Speaker 4: I was seventeen. I said that.
Speaker 2: Still old enough or younger? Nutsgate knocked out.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So my mother just looked at me, right, and I
Speaker 1: was just like, I'm just saying so. And when she
Speaker 1: just looked at me, I thought, I.
Speaker 2: Thought, you shut up.
Speaker 4: No, I knew to.
Speaker 1: Shut up after she slapped me, But before she slapped me,
Speaker 1: she I had went to keep going, and I guess
Speaker 1: she was giving me time to pause and rethink what
Speaker 1: I was saying. And I didn't rethink it, and I
Speaker 1: was just like, because it's not fair, that's a bow.
Speaker 1: And then I said, so now I get slapped for
Speaker 1: having an opinion. And then she looked at my father,
Speaker 1: and that's when I knew. I said I fucked up
Speaker 1: now because you get up for you one. No, I
Speaker 1: fucked up because I didn't want to get hit again,
Speaker 1: and if he would have hit me, then a problem.
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, I'm not gonna win this.
Speaker 1: And then my father looked at me almost like nig you.
Speaker 2: Know, like how did you say that?
Speaker 4: And then I was.
Speaker 1: Just like he was like, if I go stairs, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm going up stairs, all right.
Speaker 2: But when I get upstairs, did you ever come back back?
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be talking again.
Speaker 1: I went upstairs, and I had time to think and
Speaker 1: to be honest, I was right, like I was really
Speaker 1: really right, Like the fact that y'all are trying to
Speaker 1: guilt me into doing chores in the house by telling
Speaker 1: me all the stuff you sacrificed for me just did
Speaker 1: not sit right with me. And it was that moment
Speaker 1: that made me feel right that I realized I was
Speaker 1: doing the same thing to Jackson when I was in
Speaker 1: the car, and that's what made me catch myself and
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, and Jackson, being who he is,
Speaker 1: just like what what finished finish? Like no, I don't
Speaker 1: worry about it, and he was just like no, because
Speaker 1: then he thought he did wrong.
Speaker 2: I said, I think the same thing with you too.
Speaker 1: Why y'all always be thinking something I'm wrong because I stopped.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I catch myself like, nah, this is wrong. I'm
Speaker 1: going down the wrong path.
Speaker 3: Oh well, let us know that, acknowledge it because we
Speaker 3: were thinking we're doing something wrong.
Speaker 4: But I did though I said, you know what, Jackson's wrong.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you that I sacrificed for things that
Speaker 1: you wanted when I told you I was always going
Speaker 1: to be in your corner for anything you want, and
Speaker 1: I was going to be supportive. It's not then fair
Speaker 1: for me to tell you that in a way to
Speaker 1: guilt you to do things the way I want you to.
Speaker 1: You have your own process, go through it. If we
Speaker 1: don't agree on it. It's not because you have to
Speaker 1: do it my way because I pay for something that's
Speaker 1: not fair. And he's, oh, all right, But I caught
Speaker 1: myself only because I remember how I felt in that time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, all right. Sounds good now.
Speaker 4: Story.
Speaker 3: Uh huh. We're talking today about the sacrificial parent and what.
Speaker 2: That looks like.
Speaker 4: And you like to sacrifice things.
Speaker 2: Huh huh.
Speaker 1: What you going to sacrifice today other than this song?
Speaker 1: Because we know you be butchering these songs. Man came
Speaker 1: about to sacrifice the song go ahead.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm not gonna sacrifice a song. But
Speaker 2: I just thought about it because you always sing this song.
Speaker 3: And it's funny because I growing up never sang this
Speaker 3: song in church.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't, I at least I don't remember. It
Speaker 2: wasn't like a staple.
Speaker 3: We were more of like the like fusion like you
Speaker 3: know Jamaican West Indian Seven day Adventist.
Speaker 2: Church where it's like rege gospel.
Speaker 3: It was death definitely like reggae gospel. You know, we
Speaker 3: shall have our grand time up in even and it's evan,
Speaker 3: not heaven, evan.
Speaker 2: We shall have our grand time up in even time.
Speaker 3: No, it's not reggae, but it's just like the cadence.
Speaker 3: And then of course hearing the accents and everything, it
Speaker 3: just made me think of my grandparents church.
Speaker 2: However, that wasn't the song for.
Speaker 4: Today though, No it wasn't.
Speaker 2: But the song for today is your your song that
Speaker 2: you always sing.
Speaker 3: Now behold the lamb, the preciously oh God.
Speaker 4: Born into sing that I'm made live again, the precious.
Speaker 5: Girl. Oh okay vocal No, no, I'm s shout out
Speaker 5: to Tamila Man tambly be killing that song.
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: She sure does. I didn't know. So that's how I
Speaker 2: know about the song now because Tamila sings it too.
Speaker 2: But at the time when you used to sing it,
Speaker 2: but we used to sing it in a different context though.
Speaker 2: I think it was just like you were talking about
Speaker 2: your sister as if she was.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, because my parents act like she was the
Speaker 1: baby Jesus, and it was like she could do nothing.
Speaker 4: Me and me and Brian.
Speaker 1: Were just like the Israelites, like we were the slaves
Speaker 1: back then, and they just had us doing everything. And
Speaker 1: I used to be like I used to feel like Moses,
Speaker 1: like let my people go, like, let me and Brian go.
Speaker 4: Bro.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Tory come in the house, my father carrying her,
Speaker 1: and every time I see them might just be like,
Speaker 1: look at the baby.
Speaker 2: Oh my goshirl.
Speaker 6: So that became a running joke between me and Brian
Speaker 6: whenever toy were coming in the room, we'd be like, no, Now,
Speaker 6: she never knew that she listens to this podcast the
Speaker 6: whole time.
Speaker 2: You in that scoop bond Man that went deep for
Speaker 2: a long time.
Speaker 3: All right, y'all, let's go ahead and to a quick
Speaker 3: break and we'll get back to chatting more about the
Speaker 3: sacrificial parent and what that means. So, yeah, we're talking
Speaker 3: today about what it means to be a sacrificial parent.
Speaker 3: And this just it kind of struck me one day
Speaker 3: because I was randomly in my thoughts about just you know, things, and.
Speaker 2: One thing that my.
Speaker 3: Mom, for years, I mean, and this is since we
Speaker 3: were kids, would talk about is how much she's sacrificed
Speaker 3: for us to give us the life that she and
Speaker 3: my father provided. And for a long time, I think
Speaker 3: this is why as a child I was so nervous
Speaker 3: and scared to disappoint my parents, because I would always
Speaker 3: hear in the back of my mind, I've sacrificed this
Speaker 3: much for you to be able to do X, Y
Speaker 3: and Z. So for me as a child, there was
Speaker 3: like a very very big weight on my shoulders. And
Speaker 3: I even think back to, for example, when I was
Speaker 3: applying to colleges and you know, really feeling in my
Speaker 3: gut that the medical feel wasn't for me, and also thinking, damn,
Speaker 3: like my parents have done all these things, like I
Speaker 3: feel like I owe it to them to have a
Speaker 3: job that's secure, that'll make me decent money, so that
Speaker 3: I don't have to have them continue to feel like
Speaker 3: they're sacrificing for me. And that was a lot of
Speaker 3: pressure I felt as a kid growing up because I
Speaker 3: felt like, like, no matter what I do, I'm always
Speaker 3: going to be within the confines of making sure that
Speaker 3: my parents are going to be in approval of whatever it.
Speaker 2: Was that I did.
Speaker 3: So as I got older, and of course now I
Speaker 3: become a parent and I have, you know, our four boys,
Speaker 3: and I'm just thinking about all of the things that
Speaker 3: we are doing to provide a particular life for them.
Speaker 3: The question kind of hit me, and that's when I
Speaker 3: then turned to you and asked you how you felt
Speaker 3: about it. I don't feel like I am sacrificing anything
Speaker 3: now as a parent for my children. What I'm doing
Speaker 3: is I'm providing them a life that I feel like
Speaker 3: they deserve because they are my children, and I, as
Speaker 3: a parent, want for them to experience this type of
Speaker 3: life under my care.
Speaker 2: But it's not a thing that I feel like in.
Speaker 3: The long run they'll owe me because of all the
Speaker 3: hard work and the sacrifices that I've made it that
Speaker 3: I've made to them or for them over the years.
Speaker 3: It's more so my children deserve this, and this is
Speaker 3: the type of parent that I wanted to be. So
Speaker 3: going back to like my mom and her telling the
Speaker 3: sacrifice thing, I did speak to her about it once
Speaker 3: and I said, you know that you coining it in
Speaker 3: that term. You know that I've sacrificed so much for you.
Speaker 3: It almost feels like it's a throw in the face
Speaker 3: sometimes because it feels like, well, if you don't do X,
Speaker 3: Y and Z for me, or if it's not to
Speaker 3: my liking or to my approval, then all of the
Speaker 3: sacrifices that I've made were in vain. Have you ever
Speaker 3: felt like that with like your family or your parents,
Speaker 3: or was that ever the narrative that they've you know,
Speaker 3: given to you. No.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean I feel like that's just that generation's
Speaker 1: way of communicating that they're rooting for you and make
Speaker 1: good decisions was to say, I've sacrificed a lot, don't
Speaker 1: fuck it up, right, Like it's like I've done a
Speaker 1: lot of things in my life to help support you.
Speaker 1: For example, your mother worked nine to five, but on
Speaker 1: the weekends she was driving and traveling around the country
Speaker 1: so you can attend pageants.
Speaker 4: That's something she did not have to do. You said
Speaker 4: you wanted to do pageants.
Speaker 1: So she was like, I'm going to sacrifice my weekends,
Speaker 1: my time for myself, my time with my friends, things
Speaker 1: that I could do as an individual, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to dedicate all of this time to my daughter and
Speaker 1: hopefully you go on and do great things with speaking
Speaker 1: and what you've done. But I guess in her mind
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, I've done all of this, I've made
Speaker 1: all these sacrifices, and now Kadem meets a boy, she
Speaker 1: get pregnant, she not doing anything she wanted to do anymore.
Speaker 1: It's like, why did I sacrifice all of that time
Speaker 1: in years if you're just going to go out and
Speaker 1: friviously do what you wanted to do on your time
Speaker 1: without even considering what I've sacrificed.
Speaker 4: So I understand where parents come from.
Speaker 1: I just don't like when his weapon anytime we as
Speaker 1: children make decisions that they don't agree with without even
Speaker 1: trying to understand why we're making the decision we made.
Speaker 4: Huh, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I gotcha.
Speaker 3: That's a good point because I can see how as
Speaker 3: a firstborn and as a girl, particularly for my parents especially,
Speaker 3: I mean That doesn't mean that parenting a boy or
Speaker 3: a girl is any less difficult on either side. But
Speaker 3: I can see how from my mom, you know, growing
Speaker 3: up the way she did in Jamaica, back home the oldest,
Speaker 3: then coming to America at seventeen, having to find her way,
Speaker 3: that was a particular struggle that I don't even think
Speaker 3: I could have done at seventeen.
Speaker 2: So I have the utmost respects for.
Speaker 3: My mom being able to survive that. You know, a
Speaker 3: lot of people could have come up here and got
Speaker 3: caught up in bad company or just given up and
Speaker 3: went back home to Jamaica and said it was too much.
Speaker 3: But she was like literally persistent and had work ethic.
Speaker 3: I think the only other person I've met like that
Speaker 3: is you, but to succeed.
Speaker 1: But I will say this, your mom didn't do all
Speaker 1: of those things for you. Your mom did all of
Speaker 1: those things for her herself. She wanted a different lifestyle
Speaker 1: and that's what she got when she got here. She
Speaker 1: met your dad, and her and her your dad had
Speaker 1: a plan for themselves with which included you.
Speaker 4: Right, It's not like we was up this.
Speaker 1: The only thing I don't like about that statement, Like
Speaker 1: even my parents, my mother's famous thing to say, and
Speaker 1: she got it from The Cosby Show is but in this.
Speaker 2: World, I take you out, not the Cosby Show quote.
Speaker 2: Who is that clear?
Speaker 4: That? And then Cliff said it at one point.
Speaker 1: My issue is that is that parents in the nineties
Speaker 1: you just say that shit all the time. Y'all make
Speaker 1: it seem like I was up in the universe just
Speaker 1: wandering around, stopped saying that, and I hope somebody bring
Speaker 1: me in this world.
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying. I wasn't doing that.
Speaker 1: I actually just got here, like, oh shit, niggas was
Speaker 1: fucking now I'm here.
Speaker 4: What am I supposed to do?
Speaker 1: Parents have a douciary responsibility right to society to invest
Speaker 1: time in the children you're now putting into society.
Speaker 2: That's in fact, and so many people aren't.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So if you vestif you sacrifice for society, you sacrificed
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 3: Well, that people are worried about society, then they probably
Speaker 3: is half the reason why they don't even be given
Speaker 3: to fuck some time.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: They don't care.
Speaker 2: Some people don't don't parent to that magnitude.
Speaker 1: But I just noticed that with children in particular, when
Speaker 1: you love your children unconditionally. And when I say unconditionally
Speaker 1: is no matter what they do, you always love them.
Speaker 1: You start to realize how your demeanor, your words, your
Speaker 1: body language can affect them, and they don't want to
Speaker 1: disappoint you when they love you unconditionally. So it's just like, dang,
Speaker 1: I don't want to create this idea that my love
Speaker 1: is conditional to my kids.
Speaker 3: That's a super important point that you make, because I
Speaker 3: even think about with Jackson now and him feeling like
Speaker 3: he doesn't want to disappoint us because whether it's athletics
Speaker 3: or it's academics, he I think finally feels comfortable knowing
Speaker 3: that regardless of what you bring into this house, meaning grades,
Speaker 3: regardless of what the outcome of the game is, my
Speaker 3: parents are gonna love me regardless. And because we're so
Speaker 3: proactive about making sure that in that moment, if you
Speaker 3: did make a mistake, or if you did have a
Speaker 3: bad test or a bad day, because those things happen,
Speaker 3: and we give our children grace, it's how you recover
Speaker 3: from it.
Speaker 2: So that's more so what we're trying to teach.
Speaker 3: Now. It's not that we don't want you to be
Speaker 3: or feel like, damn, my parents are so untouchable because
Speaker 3: they've done all these great things, and therefore I can't
Speaker 3: even live up to that, and if I don't, it'll
Speaker 3: be a disappointment.
Speaker 2: It's just knowing they're gonna have moments, yeah, but.
Speaker 1: Also also letting them know that my life was not
Speaker 1: dedicated to you. You know, the type of pressure that
Speaker 1: puts on a kid to feel like I have to
Speaker 1: perform because my dad and my mom sacrificed so much.
Speaker 1: Now you're making things that don't even matter, like a
Speaker 1: game or a report, Because things that realistically don't matter,
Speaker 1: you're putting so much more impetus on it. Now it's
Speaker 1: difficult for them to perform, you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: we as parents have so much power over our children
Speaker 1: because they actually learn about the world through our lens.
Speaker 4: Right, everything they learn they see through us.
Speaker 1: When you start to put in their mind like you
Speaker 1: have to do this for your parents, do this for
Speaker 1: your mom, do this for your dad, they still then
Speaker 1: start to feel like everything I'm doing I have to
Speaker 1: do for someone else, and that's not what I want.
Speaker 2: To someone else's approval and standards.
Speaker 1: And I don't want that for them. Because then a
Speaker 1: lot of people take that to their spouse. You know,
Speaker 1: spouse is like to say that you know how much
Speaker 1: I sacrifice to be in this relationship.
Speaker 2: With your Yes, Yo, I could be out here in
Speaker 2: the streets. You know how many other men or women
Speaker 2: want to be get with me.
Speaker 3: I could be doing all these things again, weaponizing weaponizing
Speaker 3: the moment.
Speaker 1: And the hardest thing about weaponizing that is understanding that
Speaker 1: you had a choice as a parent, you had a
Speaker 1: choice as a spouse. Once you made that choice, you
Speaker 1: can no longer hold that over that person's head because
Speaker 1: you made the choice. Now, if you say to your child, look,
Speaker 1: I noticed that you're not investing a lot of time
Speaker 1: into this project. And I'm not going to continue to
Speaker 1: invest more time in your project than you. Yep, so,
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to sacrifice time. If you're not
Speaker 1: going to sacrifice, you're not committed. That's talking about the future,
Speaker 1: Like if we're making a plan, that's different than saying
Speaker 1: I've sacrificed so much time already.
Speaker 4: You have to do this now. No, Hey, we've done
Speaker 4: this already.
Speaker 1: It's not working, So let me not continue to throw
Speaker 1: the Oh I've sacrificed let's say I won't continue to sacrifice. So,
Speaker 1: for example, Jackson knows as soon as he come home
Speaker 1: from school that he's not going to plan anything between
Speaker 1: the hours of four thirty and seven thirty because if
Speaker 1: he has a practice, I'm going to be there. If
Speaker 1: he has training sessions, I'm going to do it. And
Speaker 1: I'm going to sacrifice time with his brother's, time with
Speaker 1: my wife, time with my associates that i'm building businesses
Speaker 1: and projects with. I'm going to sacrifice that. Just like today, Joe,
Speaker 1: my manager, I'm like, yo, I'm not going to be
Speaker 1: able to make it because we're supposed to have a
Speaker 1: Zoom meeting. I can't make the Zoom meeting because Jackson
Speaker 1: has practice and I got it, and he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: no problem.
Speaker 4: D mm hmm.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell Jackson moving forward, you know
Speaker 1: how many Zoom meetings I sacrificed this, you're going.
Speaker 2: To do it.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's going to be listening, bro.
Speaker 1: If you're not that serious about it moving forward, I'm
Speaker 1: probably going to take a couple of these meetings until
Speaker 1: you show me that you're serious about it.
Speaker 4: You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: A far different approach because I even think about myself.
Speaker 3: Back in the day with piano lessons, my mom was like,
Speaker 3: I think it'd be nice if you played the piano, and.
Speaker 2: I was like, all right.
Speaker 3: Wasn't something that I asked for, but was just like, okay,
Speaker 3: I'll give it a try, because she wanted to expose
Speaker 3: me to things which I appreciate too. See if you
Speaker 3: like playing the piano. I was doing dance at the time.
Speaker 3: She's like, an instrument might be nice. Not knowing at
Speaker 3: the time, I think her underlying her underlying lesson which
Speaker 3: she didn't articulate to me at the time, but after
Speaker 3: I figured out, was that she was trying to teach
Speaker 3: me discipline and doing something that you don't necessarily want
Speaker 3: to do, but you're required to do. And you're going
Speaker 3: to see it through because you're going to be required
Speaker 3: in life to do things that you don't necessarily want to.
Speaker 2: Do, but you have to do that's important. So this
Speaker 2: was by the piano lessons. So the piano lessons.
Speaker 3: Love my piano teacher, had a great relationship with him,
Speaker 3: but my heart just was not in it.
Speaker 2: But also too, the approach she took with it was.
Speaker 3: You know how many you know I'm doing a weekend
Speaker 3: job or picking up extra gigs just to make sure
Speaker 3: that you have your extra curriculars and you have these
Speaker 3: things that you're doing. And at the time, I was
Speaker 3: just like, damn, I can't even tell mom that I
Speaker 3: don't enjoy this, and I'd want to stop, and she's
Speaker 3: essentially wasting her money because I'm just not interested in
Speaker 3: playing the piano. But I didn't feel yeah, but and
Speaker 3: I did it just to kind of pacify her to
Speaker 3: the point where I had such severe performance anxiety when
Speaker 3: I had to play in recitals and I had.
Speaker 2: To play in school.
Speaker 3: You know, they would be like, oh, kat, he plays Yanna,
Speaker 3: And she was always quick to say, gad, he plays
Speaker 3: the piano.
Speaker 2: Let's go give her some exposure.
Speaker 3: And I used to hate it because I was never
Speaker 3: fully committed or prepared for it so at the time,
Speaker 3: which she probably didn't even know herself how to vocalize it,
Speaker 3: as this was just a lesson for me to teach discipline.
Speaker 3: For me, it just felt like, damn, if I tell
Speaker 3: my mom I don't want to play the piano right now,
Speaker 3: I want to disappoint her and it'll be a waste
Speaker 3: of money. When essentially she was still wasting her money anyway.
Speaker 3: So that makes me think of you and Jackson, and
Speaker 3: you know the way you can verbalize it to your children,
Speaker 3: So it's more so empowering them to make the decision
Speaker 3: to say, am I going to commit to this or
Speaker 3: is it something that I just rather just kind of
Speaker 3: back away from it and just say, you know what, this
Speaker 3: may not be the time, or I'm just not interested, right.
Speaker 1: And ultimately, I just feel like it's important to stop
Speaker 1: weaponizing those words for our children, especially kids who aren't
Speaker 1: emotionally intelligent enough to understand what's being said.
Speaker 4: They take it. It's heavy for them.
Speaker 1: It's just like wow, like, yeah, my family is sacrificing,
Speaker 1: so let me you know. And some people that's so
Speaker 1: al if they have to learn and understand the idea
Speaker 1: of a sacrifice and things of that nature, I call bullshit.
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I call bullshit because when you become an adult, you
Speaker 1: start to realize that if there's something I don't want
Speaker 1: to do, I'm not going to do it. It's no
Speaker 1: matter how much you guilt me. The only reason why
Speaker 1: we do it to our children is because they feel
Speaker 1: like they can't no, right, so if you think about it,
Speaker 1: it's predatory and it's social controlling, like there's something wrong,
Speaker 1: it's narcissistic.
Speaker 3: It's also felt like, well, you guys owe this to
Speaker 3: me because I've done all these things, Like how many
Speaker 3: times have you heard from random people like, oh, you know,
Speaker 3: my kid better make it because they got to take
Speaker 3: care of me when I'm older. Oh man, and putting
Speaker 3: that pressure on children.
Speaker 4: That's that's a big I'm glad you brought that up.
Speaker 4: That's a big point.
Speaker 1: And I've watched this with a lot of my friends
Speaker 1: who are professional athletes and I was an athlete. And
Speaker 1: you have parents who feel like, now that you've made it,
Speaker 1: I get my.
Speaker 3: Just do Yeah, you know, it's like a payback thing,
Speaker 3: like I've taken care of you all your life, therefore
Speaker 3: you have to take care of me now. Granted, if
Speaker 3: you are a good person and you value your parents
Speaker 3: and you are doing well and you just naturally feel
Speaker 3: innately that you want to help your parents because that's
Speaker 3: just what you want to do for your parents, then
Speaker 3: that's one thing. But it's different when you feel like
Speaker 3: it's an obligation or your parents are making you feel
Speaker 3: obligated to have to, and the entitlement takes away from
Speaker 3: the genuine spirit of your wanting to do it because
Speaker 3: you want to do it. The expectation eliminates all that me.
Speaker 4: And my father went through. That this is a vulnerable moment.
Speaker 1: Me and my father didn't speak for six months when
Speaker 1: I was in the NFL because when I first got
Speaker 1: to the NFL, it seemed like everything that I thought
Speaker 1: was like a way to do things with your child changed.
Speaker 1: I had to use car, I had to hustle, you know,
Speaker 1: I had to learn how to fix all my stuff
Speaker 1: on my car, sparks, plug stuff because money was scarce.
Speaker 1: And then when I asked for a new car. I
Speaker 1: remember particularly I'd asked my dad. I said, Yo, I'm
Speaker 1: going to take out a loan get my own car
Speaker 1: as long as you can let me get on your insurance.
Speaker 4: And he was like, oh, you don't need a new car.
Speaker 1: And he's talking to my brother, and my brother told me, Yo,
Speaker 1: I spoke to Dad, Pop saying you need a new car.
Speaker 1: I signed to the Alliance right, no signing bonus, no nothing.
Speaker 1: That was a friend and Tryout went on that trip.
Speaker 1: Remember I went on that trip. Remember Friday Sunday that
Speaker 1: Sunday night. When I got back, the first thing my
Speaker 1: dad asked me was can you help me brother get
Speaker 1: a car? And I did help my brother get a
Speaker 1: car in part because I felt guilty, like my parents
Speaker 1: satisficed sot me. Yeah, I had survivor's remorse, but my parents,
Speaker 1: I felt guilty. I was like, dang, like they sacrificed,
Speaker 1: so this is my sacles to me help my brother.
Speaker 1: Then I asked my father's like, yo, you said you
Speaker 1: were going to help me get my brother car. My
Speaker 1: father said, YO, I don't. I don't have it. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying right now to help you get
Speaker 1: a car. I want to help your brother with the car,
Speaker 1: so if you could take care of it, take care
Speaker 1: of it. So now I was like fine, I'll take
Speaker 1: care of it, and I ended up buying him f
Speaker 1: one fifty and then he ended up putting the rims
Speaker 1: and the grill on the car.
Speaker 4: But then I get back.
Speaker 1: From my rookie season and I noticed that my dad
Speaker 1: has two new cars. Him and my mom have new cars.
Speaker 1: And I found out because one of my close friends, Balau,
Speaker 1: who was living with my parents at the time. I
Speaker 1: was like, yo, what's cool? What you did with for
Speaker 1: your dad. I said, what you mean, like, yo, you
Speaker 1: got your parents' cars. And I said, I didn't get
Speaker 1: my parents no cars.
Speaker 2: That was assumption, because.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, and he really gotten a check yet, had
Speaker 3: you at that point at.
Speaker 1: The time when I had gotten the car for Brian
Speaker 1: And this was the middle of the season. My father
Speaker 1: asked me in spring and once I started getting paid
Speaker 1: in during the season, that's when I got my brother car.
Speaker 1: But then I was like, yo, like I didn't get
Speaker 1: my parents no car. He was like, I said, my
Speaker 1: parents got new cars. And he was just like, yo,
Speaker 1: you got to talk to your parents about that, Like
Speaker 1: I know what was going on. So then I spoke
Speaker 1: to my pops and my pop was like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: was meaning to talk to you about that, you know,
Speaker 1: And I was just like, what you mean, meaning when
Speaker 1: I asked you if you could help me get Brian Carr,
Speaker 1: you said you didn't even have it the money, And
Speaker 1: he's like, I didn't because you bought Brian a used car.
Speaker 1: Was at the time it was fifteen thousand dollars and
Speaker 1: I was like, go half, he said, I didn't have that,
Speaker 1: but he said, you know, I already drive an Accura.
Speaker 1: They told me if I wanted to get into a
Speaker 1: new Accurate, it was only going to be fifteen hundred
Speaker 1: dollars down, and I can get a new one lease.
Speaker 1: So when I went there to get the second one least,
Speaker 1: they told me they didn't give your mother one for
Speaker 1: another deal, so it was only going to be about
Speaker 1: twenty five hundred dollars down.
Speaker 4: So at the time I didn't ask all those questions.
Speaker 1: The minute my father said to me he had both
Speaker 1: of them a new car, I was pissed and I
Speaker 1: just went radio silent because I felt like I was
Speaker 1: being used. I was just like, yo, like you made
Speaker 1: me feel guilty all of this time about you know,
Speaker 1: sacrifices and stuff. You told me you couldn't help me,
Speaker 1: but then you went and got yourself a new car.
Speaker 1: And he said to me, he was just like, you know,
Speaker 1: I spent my whole life buying stuff for you and
Speaker 1: your brother.
Speaker 4: You had a new car. Think about it. I ain't
Speaker 4: have no new car. And he's right, But he's right.
Speaker 1: Like when I was a senior in high school, my
Speaker 1: father bought me a nineteen eighty nine Maxima.
Speaker 4: It was fly It was black, black rims with the
Speaker 4: chrome lip.
Speaker 1: I had eighteen inch subworphers in the back, like my
Speaker 1: pops helped me down, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: But he never forget, never let me forget about it.
Speaker 1: Even growing up in the house, every time I did
Speaker 1: something wrong or did something he didn't like, it wasn't
Speaker 1: even wrong. Sometimes if I made a decision and he
Speaker 1: didn't like, the first thing he would say it was,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to drive that car that
Speaker 1: I bought.
Speaker 4: And it's like, damn, why get me a fucking car?
Speaker 1: Every time I don't do something you agree with. So
Speaker 1: there was one point in the house I.
Speaker 4: Just didn't want to count.
Speaker 2: I knew you were going to say that. I'm like,
Speaker 2: you were like, I don't want that car.
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. It was a Saturday morning. I did
Speaker 1: not have football practice. It was on a bye week.
Speaker 1: Now every other day I had to drive in the
Speaker 1: morning for football practice. I used to drive to games
Speaker 1: and I used to do everything Saturday morning. I finally
Speaker 1: get to sleep in and he's like, yo, can you
Speaker 1: take your sister to choir hustle? And I'm like it's
Speaker 1: my only day to sleep, Like, like why I got
Speaker 1: to take it to choir rustle, and he was just like, you.
Speaker 4: Don't be ungrateful. You know you don't have to drive
Speaker 4: that car.
Speaker 1: Say you know what, You're right, And I put the
Speaker 1: keys on the counter and I went back to sleep.
Speaker 2: That is so devout, Oh my.
Speaker 1: God, because the fact of the matter is, you're right.
Speaker 1: I don't need to drive this car. And to be honest,
Speaker 1: I don't want to know more because you took the
Speaker 1: joy away by trying to guilt me and trying to
Speaker 1: manipulate me into doing everything you wanted.
Speaker 4: Now that you blessed me with the blessing, so it
Speaker 4: bothered me.
Speaker 2: So that now he has to take to Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: He he has to take to and he was pissed.
Speaker 1: And then me and him got into a back and forth.
Speaker 1: And at the time, I'm seventeen. I'm seventeen years old
Speaker 1: at the time got my license because I took drivers
Speaker 1: that and I made certain sacrifices to make sure I
Speaker 1: can get the call for myself. I was working in
Speaker 1: Hogan days to put gas in my own car. Because
Speaker 1: then I was also pissed. I was just like, yo,
Speaker 1: if I'm a taker and you're gonna put gas in
Speaker 1: my car, He's like, you work. So it's like damn, Like,
Speaker 1: so now you're not even gonna give me gas to put.
Speaker 4: In the car. I gotta take your daughter. Your daughter's
Speaker 4: your sister. It's like it seems it seems like everything
Speaker 4: I say.
Speaker 1: You have a problem with my guy, everything I say
Speaker 1: you have a problem with right, But then.
Speaker 2: It came back to here, you know how.
Speaker 4: To I know, argumentative?
Speaker 2: Oh for sure.
Speaker 1: Remember the whole comment about I came here of y'all
Speaker 1: guilty pleasures and he was like, that's your sister.
Speaker 4: Said oh, now she's my sister. She here or of y'all?
Speaker 2: That was that was like a coined phrase.
Speaker 1: That was because because it was the fast.
Speaker 2: I was like, I did not ask to be here.
Speaker 3: I did to be involved in these shenanigans.
Speaker 4: So I didn't ask. I was in there bumping the ground.
Speaker 4: And Tory came nine years after me. Now she my kid?
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, is my kid too?
Speaker 3: To our children, they're the daughters that we've never had
Speaker 3: us how to be better parents because.
Speaker 2: Still parenting them now to this day, but I still have.
Speaker 1: I had to have some very deep rooted trauma dealing
Speaker 1: with my parents over the past couple of years because
Speaker 1: of the things that they said and did to me,
Speaker 1: and even even now, up until like the last couple
Speaker 1: of years, me and my father had like a very
Speaker 1: tumultuous relationship when it came to finance because he used
Speaker 1: to always throw in my face how much he did,
Speaker 1: how he did. So now it was just like, don't
Speaker 1: ask me for nothing, because you made it clear to
Speaker 1: me how much you did for me. And I had
Speaker 1: all the things I had to do without my life
Speaker 1: because you did it. Don't then say to me now
Speaker 1: a reminder of all the stuff you did. I paid
Speaker 1: that price already. I paid that price. I'm not paying
Speaker 1: that price no more. And then I had to kind
Speaker 1: of pay parent. Yeah, I was you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It was now, be know when I became a parent,
Speaker 1: I understood he understood it his perspective, and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: like he really wasn't trying to.
Speaker 4: Belittle me or guilty.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't still think he understood what those words were
Speaker 1: doing to me.
Speaker 3: I wonder if there's danger in us saying to think
Speaker 3: of us as parents now, right, because I know we
Speaker 3: on our podcasts and stuff, we talk about our parents
Speaker 3: and we talk about moments and we rehash things. But
Speaker 3: our parents literally made us who we are, so it's
Speaker 3: never from a place of like our parents are the worst.
Speaker 3: It's never that, But of course we use it as
Speaker 3: a way to learn.
Speaker 4: Conversations I've had with my dad, yeah.
Speaker 3: For sure, and the way I've had It's funny your
Speaker 3: mom and my mom and your dad are very similar
Speaker 3: personality wise, and our mom, your mom and my dad.
Speaker 4: Are very similar.
Speaker 3: But it makes me think about as a parent when
Speaker 3: we talk about, like, you know, everything we do is
Speaker 3: for the boys or for the legacy. I wonder if,
Speaker 3: like Jackson, because he's a little older, if he, ever,
Speaker 3: when he hears us say that, feels that pressure or
Speaker 3: is it just him observing how hard we work and
Speaker 3: how much we work, is it already innate in him
Speaker 3: to just want to do well because of that? Because
Speaker 3: for me, my mom would always do the ice sacrifice,
Speaker 3: I sacrifice thing. However, it was enough for me to
Speaker 3: see her working extra long hours. It was enough for
Speaker 3: me to see her come home from work, get dinner
Speaker 3: on the table, get us to bed, and then stay
Speaker 3: up for another four or five six hours to write
Speaker 3: her note to do her paperwork. As a nurse. This
Speaker 3: is before technology, so everything was handwritten. It was enough
Speaker 3: for me to wake up in the morning and see
Speaker 3: that she barely took a nap on the couch because
Speaker 3: she had so much work to do and everything was
Speaker 3: building up. It was enough for me to see that
Speaker 3: she took a weekend to take me to a dance competition,
Speaker 3: knowing she was coming back to an overload of work.
Speaker 3: So just seeing those things would have been enough for
Speaker 3: me to say, you know what. And it's still enough
Speaker 3: for me now to say, well, you know what, when
Speaker 3: I'm able to, I'm going to make sure that my
Speaker 3: parents are taken care of. It didn't acquire her to
Speaker 3: throw the I sacrifice in every situation, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering how Jackson feels.
Speaker 1: You know, we have those conversations I tell him. I
Speaker 1: tell him all the time about a Jackson and anything
Speaker 1: you're doing now you do not have to do, Like,
Speaker 1: don't think that you have to play basketball because I
Speaker 1: want you to play basketball. You're going to play a
Speaker 1: sport because you have to understand what discipline is for yourself.
Speaker 1: But you don't have to pick a sport because what
Speaker 1: I like, you have to pick a sport. Though you
Speaker 1: love basketball, you love football, you love track and field.
Speaker 1: You might want to try Batmanton at some point. I
Speaker 1: don't care what it is. My whole point with this
Speaker 1: is you can't quit because you have an obligation to
Speaker 1: yourself and your team. Yes, I've never said to him
Speaker 1: you can't quit because of what I've done. Never this way,
Speaker 1: he feels empowered to do what he wants to do.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: I wasn't always at this point. I arrived at this
Speaker 1: point after listening to myself in there say the exact
Speaker 1: words my dad said. I felt self checking exactly how
Speaker 1: my dad felt like I legit felt like I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: my g you said you wanted to play AAU basketball,
Speaker 1: You said you wanted to get this training, you said
Speaker 1: you wanted to get all of this. I'm paying this money,
Speaker 1: I'm sacrificing my weekends. You can't just go out there
Speaker 1: and just give me a half assed effort. You know
Speaker 1: how much money I said it was once I started that,
Speaker 1: but I knew how my dad felt exaccurate, Like you
Speaker 1: said you wanted to do all these things, and I'm
Speaker 1: partnering with you. You can't just quit the partnership when
Speaker 1: it's convenient. You got to see that through, and I
Speaker 1: think that's what parents, our parents are trying to say.
Speaker 4: I think their choice of words were just a little
Speaker 4: bit right.
Speaker 3: Choice delivery might have been a little bit a little
Speaker 3: bit right, But we know better, we do better, and
Speaker 3: that's what we're working on as parents ourselves.
Speaker 4: Cut you off, go ahead. I do want to say
Speaker 4: this too.
Speaker 1: I love my dad so much because I was able
Speaker 1: to have a conversation with him about how it made
Speaker 1: me feel.
Speaker 4: He corrected himself.
Speaker 1: We talked so much about the older generation and how
Speaker 1: they stuck in their ways.
Speaker 4: One thing I say about both my parents.
Speaker 1: I talked to my mom about my relationship with her dad,
Speaker 1: and she had told me how she felt, and I
Speaker 1: told her how I felt. She didn't judge me, she
Speaker 1: didn't force anything on me. She was like, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that you felt that way, and I understand why
Speaker 1: you would feel that way.
Speaker 4: This is how I feel.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to try to change your mind about
Speaker 1: how you do things, but I'm not changing my mind
Speaker 1: about how I do things. Were just going to have
Speaker 1: to agree to move separately and differently when it comes
Speaker 1: to this. My dad was the same way my dad apologized,
Speaker 1: was like, bro, I didn't realize how some of the
Speaker 1: stuff I did to you and not your brother and
Speaker 1: sister made you feel isolated. I didn't understand how saying
Speaker 1: those things made you feel like you old me. Or
Speaker 1: he was like, I was trying to teach you responsibilities.
Speaker 1: I was trying to teach you what sacrifice looks like.
Speaker 1: But he definitely said, now that I know that, I'll
Speaker 1: do better and look at you now and for real.
Speaker 2: The same way I said, look at me now, so
Speaker 2: I can.
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's never that much, it's never not much, right,
Speaker 3: but for the sake of like rehashing things and for
Speaker 3: the sake of us wanting to be better parents. Like
Speaker 3: that's one thing that Deval and I collectively agree, hon,
Speaker 3: is that burning desire to be good parents. And I'm
Speaker 3: sure you know, years from now our kids might have
Speaker 3: a podcast and talk about all the funck up shit
Speaker 3: we did.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I'm prepared, Okay, I am prepared for Jackson to
Speaker 1: say to me because he's done it already with a
Speaker 1: you told me some things, and I've said this made
Speaker 1: a fair way, and I've had to sit there.
Speaker 2: And and just eat that, and you know what, You're right.
Speaker 4: Very emotionally mature. But he's only twelve.
Speaker 1: Imagine when he's twenty two, he's gonna be able to
Speaker 1: pick me apart and be like Dad, when you said,
Speaker 1: this is how it made me feel. I don't know
Speaker 1: why you did this, and I'm gonna have to sit
Speaker 1: back and be like, you know what, Yeah, you're right,
Speaker 1: And now that you've pointed that out to me, I
Speaker 1: apologize for making you not apologize if you felt that way,
Speaker 1: I apologize for making you feel that way. But this,
Speaker 1: this is why I did it in that time. I
Speaker 1: thought it was the right thing to do. It doesn't
Speaker 1: excuse but I just want you to know there was
Speaker 1: no malicious intent.
Speaker 4: And that's how my father explained to me.
Speaker 2: They're just trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1: And that's what I realized, figure it out. Parents be
Speaker 1: trying to figure shit out.
Speaker 2: That's a fact.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: It's easy to sit back and retroactively say this is
Speaker 1: what you should have did.
Speaker 4: It's easy to do that.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure.
Speaker 1: But now as a parent, I understand you know how
Speaker 1: it's important for us to do that in real time
Speaker 1: and also be prepared when our children do it to us.
Speaker 2: That's a fact.
Speaker 3: So as children start to develop their own capacity of empathy,
Speaker 3: making them feel guilty for simply being is something parents
Speaker 3: should try to avoid as children develop these emotions, guilt
Speaker 3: is something they will naturally experience when their actions have
Speaker 3: a negative effect on others. Like we said, and making
Speaker 3: your children feel guilty can work to stop behavior in
Speaker 3: the moment, but it can have a long term.
Speaker 2: Effect on their emotional health.
Speaker 3: Yes, all right, y'all, let's take a quick break. We're
Speaker 3: going to get into some listen letters and we'll be
Speaker 3: back right after these ads.
Speaker 4: All right, guys, we're back.
Speaker 2: All right, listener letter time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you wanna go first, baby, you want me to
Speaker 4: handle it?
Speaker 2: You go first this time?
Speaker 4: Yes, man, All right, Hey, Kadeen and Duval. My name
Speaker 4: is Kayla South. Kayla. First off, I want to say
Speaker 4: that I love y'all. He love you too.
Speaker 1: I started watching y'all videos on YouTube when y'all were
Speaker 1: living in Brooklyn.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's a long time ago. Now.
Speaker 1: I listened to the podcast on Apple Podcasts and I'm
Speaker 1: a member of the Patreon team Ellis Patreon.
Speaker 2: Gang Gang Gang Gang.
Speaker 1: I'm currently reading We Over Me Too, We Over Me
Speaker 1: Gang I'm getting a lot of great advice. I really
Speaker 1: do feel like y'all are family, and that's what's up.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you. So. I've been in a relationship with
Speaker 1: my boyfriend going on eight years. I am eight, I'm
Speaker 1: twenty seven, and he is twenty six.
Speaker 4: Cool girl. Sounds like us. We were high school sweethearts.
Speaker 1: There you go, and he has been one of my
Speaker 1: biggest porters and my best friend ever since. We have
Speaker 1: been living together going on two years, and it's been
Speaker 1: great here. Recently, we have been having a lot of
Speaker 1: discussion about our future, getting engaged, marriage, children, etc.
Speaker 4: That turns into a heated argument.
Speaker 1: I try to listen to my spouse, but once he
Speaker 1: says something that I don't agree with or has a
Speaker 1: type of tone in his voice, I get very upset
Speaker 1: and defensive.
Speaker 4: It sounds like you. Then after that you used to
Speaker 4: get very defensive.
Speaker 2: I did, Yeah, I was just making sure you clarifying.
Speaker 2: We just sound like you. I didn't know if you
Speaker 2: were talking about her home.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then after that my mouth gets crazy and I do
Speaker 1: start name calling. Yeah, I hate that I do that.
Speaker 1: In and after we stop talking, I do sincerely apologize
Speaker 1: to him, and he does too, but the solution is
Speaker 1: not established after all of the fussing. That sounds like
Speaker 1: us too, That's what he was at that time. I
Speaker 1: need advice on how not to get so defensive and angry.
Speaker 1: Oh this is actually perfect, so I can stay calm
Speaker 1: so that we can have a respectful conversation and come
Speaker 1: to a peaceful arrangement.
Speaker 4: Thanks again, family, Love you guys.
Speaker 3: Wow. Yep, that was literally me, each girl, getting defensive
Speaker 3: and upset over everything because one thing that I gonna do
Speaker 3: is have receipts in fact time stamps and like all
Speaker 3: of the things. And what I learned is that I
Speaker 3: was not necessarily raised in a household where accountability was
Speaker 3: a thing. And the minute I started to kind of
Speaker 3: sit back and take a look and actually listen to
Speaker 3: what he was saying and not necessarily how it was
Speaker 3: said or how it made me feel, but just really
Speaker 3: isolating the fact of what he was saying in that
Speaker 3: moment then taking accountability. If it was something that I
Speaker 3: indeed agreed with or he had a point with, then
Speaker 3: it was easier for me as time progressed, to be like,
Speaker 3: you know what, let me just listen to what he's saying.
Speaker 3: Maybe he has a point here, and then if anything,
Speaker 3: ask him how he felt about it or not, just
Speaker 3: trying to find a reason to explain why I felt
Speaker 3: the way I felt, which is still something that I'm
Speaker 3: working on. So I think accountability will go a long
Speaker 3: way in this situation, and it doesn't have to be
Speaker 3: like a it doesn't have to be.
Speaker 1: I think accountability goes a long way. But I also
Speaker 1: think an upset thing. I think it's not judging your
Speaker 1: partner for how they feel. And a lot of times
Speaker 1: we did that, not just you. We did that. For example,
Speaker 1: I remember telling you I felt a way about I
Speaker 1: give an example, I felt the way you said something
Speaker 1: about bags. Your first thing was to defend what you
Speaker 1: were saying rather than saying, bang, I didn't realize it
Speaker 1: affected you that way. It was deval. I said it
Speaker 1: like this, you shouldn't feel right. And my thing is,
Speaker 1: I'm not telling you that. I'm not telling you how
Speaker 1: I feel because I want you to talk me out
Speaker 1: of how I feel. I'm telling you how I feel
Speaker 1: to express to you that it bothered me. And if
Speaker 1: you're not even going to acknowledge that, we don't even
Speaker 1: have to have a conversation and that comes from Kadeen
Speaker 1: not judging the fact that what she said made me
Speaker 1: feel a way, but also not feeling the need to
Speaker 1: always defend what you said my issues, like think about.
Speaker 2: It to explain how we got there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get what you're saying, to explain how you
Speaker 1: got there, But when I'm telling you how I feel,
Speaker 1: explaining to me how you got there or why you
Speaker 1: got there doesn't change the fact that it made me
Speaker 1: feel a way. So the immediate lack of acknowledgment to
Speaker 1: the fact that I feel a way is like, you
Speaker 1: really don't even care how I feel. You just want
Speaker 1: to be sure that you explain how you feel.
Speaker 3: I recently had a conversation with someone, and I can't
Speaker 3: say who it is. I don't want to out this person. However,
Speaker 3: it was a role reversal thing. And this is somebody
Speaker 3: who you know, I take a liking to, and you know,
Speaker 3: like this person, love this person, and you know, we're
Speaker 3: just listening to their scenario. And the person said, and
Speaker 3: they were speaking about their significant other, she's been doing
Speaker 3: X YV syself for so long blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: And I told her how I felt about it, and
Speaker 3: instead of her just saying, Okay, I understand how you feel.
Speaker 3: She's giving me reasons as to why she did the
Speaker 3: things she did and why she felt this way.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh shit.
Speaker 3: And because I've known this person for a long time
Speaker 3: and I understand where they were coming from, I literally
Speaker 3: thought about you and I.
Speaker 4: You realized that could hurt.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh shit, another moment, another revelation moment,
Speaker 3: because I wanted so desperately and to take that person's side,
Speaker 3: because I did understand like the person had valid points.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'm just like, wow, I
Speaker 3: can't believe I was on the other side of it, being.
Speaker 4: The person because because you were listening to someone.
Speaker 3: Someone else, Yes, someone else complained about the same exact
Speaker 3: thing that you said, you know what I'm saying. And
Speaker 3: when they expressed to me how what this person said
Speaker 3: made them feel like, I don't care about your reasoning
Speaker 3: for getting here, I don't care about how we got there.
Speaker 3: I just want you to know that this is how
Speaker 3: I feel. I'm not budgeting on how I feel. And
Speaker 3: you had more than enough time to do whatever you
Speaker 3: were supposed to do, and you did it.
Speaker 4: That's true.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh shit, that's exactly what the
Speaker 3: val were trying to say to me, Like, don't don't
Speaker 3: give me the reasons, just acknowledge how I feel, and
Speaker 3: then how can we move past it?
Speaker 2: At that point? Light bulb moment.
Speaker 3: And it's crazy because the stuff that you talk about
Speaker 3: often with your significant other, your spouse, and it's like
Speaker 3: getting a different perspective or hearing somebody else say it
Speaker 3: sometimes just like it clicks, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because you listen to the same voice all the time,
Speaker 1: and sometimes the minute that voice starts, you just like
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear this already.
Speaker 4: And this is the truth. I've learned this in debate class.
Speaker 4: Name calling is an.
Speaker 1: Unintelligent way to let your part, let the other party
Speaker 1: know that they're lose their winning an argument a minute
Speaker 1: and yeah, so now what we were talking about doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: but you just want to attack me personally.
Speaker 4: I definitely know I'm winning now.
Speaker 1: It also shows that you haven't done enough research to
Speaker 1: support your argument, and a lot of times that's what happens.
Speaker 1: We talk all the time about men versus women. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's a men versus women thing. I think
Speaker 1: is logical versus illogical.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: If you have two people having a debate, and one
Speaker 1: person operates in a position of logic where they try
Speaker 1: their best to remove all feelings and the other person
Speaker 1: operates in a space of feelings where what they feel matters,
Speaker 1: it's important to both parties realize that both things can
Speaker 1: be right and true at the same time.
Speaker 3: Or you can coexist because like, for example, when I
Speaker 3: think of you and I, I don't think it's a thing
Speaker 3: where it's a matter of logical versus emotional, because you're
Speaker 3: super emotional and passionate about the way you feel, but
Speaker 3: also logical, right, And here I am thinking I'm logical.
Speaker 2: But I guess I'm just emotion No, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I do try to be so logical.
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is is like, even when in
Speaker 1: your space, you're in an emotional state, and while I'm
Speaker 1: being in a logical state, I don't have to discredit
Speaker 1: the fact that you feel a way in order to
Speaker 1: prove that my logic is it is, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, And you don't have to discredit my logic
Speaker 1: by name calling or saying something to prove that your
Speaker 1: feelings matter. And I think people and arguments have to
Speaker 1: realize that that two things can be true at the
Speaker 1: same time. If you put a six on the floor
Speaker 1: right from the top of the six is facing towards you,
Speaker 1: in the bottom of the six is facing towards me.
Speaker 4: To me, it looks like a six, but to you
Speaker 4: from that perspective, it looks like a nine.
Speaker 2: And we're both right, and we're both right. It's a
Speaker 2: name for that. Isn't it for two things to pose
Speaker 2: this and be correct at the same time, to.
Speaker 4: Be opposite or two things oppositely.
Speaker 1: I know there's a divine dichotomy, which divine dichotomy means
Speaker 1: that two things can be the opposite but both remain
Speaker 1: true at the same time.
Speaker 4: And that's literally what it is.
Speaker 1: And I think that people need to understand that in
Speaker 1: arguments when I sit down to discuss, because it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be an argument before it gets to an argument.
Speaker 1: When I sit down to discuss with my significant other
Speaker 1: what our future is going to look like, the way
Speaker 1: they feel.
Speaker 4: And what I believe can both be true even if
Speaker 4: they're not the same thing.
Speaker 1: So what you have to do sometimes is step on
Speaker 1: the other side of that argument, right, So it's like Okay,
Speaker 1: I see a six over here.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: Let me just let me just put my guard down
Speaker 4: for a minute.
Speaker 2: Step one step over to your.
Speaker 4: Perspective and let me see. Let me let me let
Speaker 4: me know. You know what, I.
Speaker 2: See what you mean. See, I see how this could be.
Speaker 1: But you know what we do to all we know,
Speaker 1: we defend our stance. So rather than even try to
Speaker 1: work on the other side of the aisle to see
Speaker 1: the perspective, I'm going to defend why my stance is
Speaker 1: more important. When you start defending your stance, you're no
Speaker 1: longer talking about the discussion. You're defending a stance, not
Speaker 1: defending the discussion. So now you're arguing about arguing as
Speaker 1: opposed to coming up with a solution.
Speaker 4: And what Kadeen and I have.
Speaker 1: Done recently is it said to each other, Look, look,
Speaker 1: we're not gonna wait and waste time. We're going to
Speaker 1: discuss things in real time because we've noticed in real
Speaker 1: time it's easier to get on the other.
Speaker 2: Aisle because it's clarity clarity.
Speaker 4: Right now.
Speaker 1: Let me see, that's a lot of times like hey,
Speaker 1: well this is this is I have to give you
Speaker 1: credit for this more often now that she's ever done
Speaker 1: in our whole relationships. She'll say to me, how you're feeling,
Speaker 1: I'm like about what you always hear you, like about
Speaker 1: what you'd be like, how you how you feeling, like,
Speaker 1: how your heart has your head? How's everything going? And
Speaker 1: what that does is it allows it opens the door
Speaker 1: for me to express to her how I feel.
Speaker 2: About anything randomly in that moment.
Speaker 1: And I know that when she asked that question, what
Speaker 1: I say now is not going.
Speaker 4: To lead to an argument. There's so many things.
Speaker 1: When you're sitting you know you're feeling a way, you
Speaker 1: know you want to talk to your significant other. Wis
Speaker 1: I don't want to bring this up because I don't
Speaker 1: want to argue. But then when they open up that door,
Speaker 1: it's like, since you asked, since you asked, I feel
Speaker 1: a little bit. And then I watched her and she's like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I didn't know you felt that way. You know, I
Speaker 1: apologize for making you feel that way. And once and
Speaker 1: once she says that apologize for making you feel that way,
Speaker 1: as opposed to apologize if you felt if I made
Speaker 1: you You know, you maybe don't say if when you
Speaker 1: put it if or a butt with an apology the
Speaker 1: apology is now nulling voice.
Speaker 2: I didn't even think once she says.
Speaker 3: Look, learning you a little bit more, even twenty two
Speaker 3: years and we still be revelations.
Speaker 1: But the minute you say, I apologize for this, and
Speaker 1: then you start to explain to me, now I've opened hearing.
Speaker 1: Oh so she at least understands why she's acknowledged why
Speaker 1: let me let me understand why she said that or
Speaker 1: did that. And then once she said why I did
Speaker 1: I said, okay, okay, I'll get it. I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: done it that way back can see it.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So I think that's what they need to do.
Speaker 1: They need to just stop judging each other and understanding
Speaker 1: that an argument doesn't win. You don't win an argument
Speaker 1: by protecting your stance.
Speaker 3: Right all right on to our next one. Hey, y'all,
Speaker 3: I got to say that your one of my favorite couples.
Speaker 3: Your energy connecting to each other is something I admire
Speaker 3: so much and I pray that I can have one
Speaker 3: day thanks for that.
Speaker 2: Here's my dilemma.
Speaker 3: I'm a thirty one year old single woman who's in
Speaker 3: the military, currently stationed overseas, and I'm realizing how lonely
Speaker 3: I am. I've been married before, but was married at
Speaker 3: a young age, and obviously it didn't work out. I'm
Speaker 3: ready to try again and settle down. I'm an attractive girl.
Speaker 3: I can definitely pull the guys in. I'm also a
Speaker 3: seven bell meaning I got that.
Speaker 4: But she said I could pull the guys.
Speaker 2: All right, girl, you better hype yourself up.
Speaker 3: I got the cooking skill, I clean, I have manners,
Speaker 3: the whole shebang. But when I talk to my guy friends,
Speaker 3: they say I'm intimidating. I can be too much woman
Speaker 3: or too independent. I don't understand that, guests. I have
Speaker 3: a career, in my own car, my own house, the
Speaker 3: benefits from the military, but that's just creating stability for myself.
Speaker 2: How can I be at fault for that?
Speaker 3: My guy friends will also say that guys want a
Speaker 3: girl that they can take care of and build with.
Speaker 3: They say that I'm beyond that. I don't agree with this.
Speaker 3: Help me understand what they mean, because why a guy
Speaker 3: wouldn't want someone who does who has done something for themselves,
Speaker 3: or why wouldn't a guy want somebody who has things
Speaker 3: going for themselves? Sincerely, a confused woman, PS, I definitely
Speaker 3: got your book. Pray I can make your live show
Speaker 3: one day awesome. Thanks for this said, do you want
Speaker 3: to answer from a guy perspective? Because yes, okay, yes,
Speaker 3: because I know you have the guy chats, yes, the
Speaker 3: group chats.
Speaker 2: You have single men all that, so tell me how
Speaker 2: they feeling.
Speaker 1: If you're speaking to a man or men who says
Speaker 1: you're intimidating by being yourself, then those are not the
Speaker 1: men for you.
Speaker 4: You You have to.
Speaker 1: Change your environment, you know those Now if she's projecting
Speaker 1: that she's independent, because that is a thing now where
Speaker 1: women lead with I got my own job, I got
Speaker 1: my own parent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am the table, I am the catch right.
Speaker 1: It's like, that's that's not what I'm looking for. You know,
Speaker 1: you leading with your accomplishments. That's not what I'm looking for.
Speaker 1: So some men may see your approach as intimidating, but
Speaker 1: you being independent is not intimidating.
Speaker 4: I'll give you an example.
Speaker 1: One of the greatest things that I appreciated about Kadeen
Speaker 1: when I met her was that she had a lot
Speaker 1: going on. And what I mean a lot going on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she had to ask and she can cook and she
Speaker 1: did all of that stuff. But she was a pageant winner.
Speaker 1: She was interested in graduating magna cum laude. She had
Speaker 1: her own career. When I talked about myself, she talked
Speaker 1: about her own stuff, She.
Speaker 4: Had her own car.
Speaker 1: Her mom made it very, very clear that you were
Speaker 1: not interested in finding someone to take care of you.
Speaker 1: So those are all things that men would have traditionally said. Now,
Speaker 1: based on the men she's talking to me, that's intimidating,
Speaker 1: But for me I was.
Speaker 4: I saw it as somebody I can build with.
Speaker 1: So my message to her would be, stop listening to
Speaker 1: the men that are saying you're too intimidating and find
Speaker 1: the man who is not intimidated by being yourself. Also
Speaker 1: have some self reflection and say, am I projecting my
Speaker 1: independence in a way that can be off putting? And
Speaker 1: if you can, yeah, if you can honestly say no,
Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm just being me, then fuck what they're saying.
Speaker 2: That's a fact.
Speaker 1: Don't don't play the damsel and distress thing don't work
Speaker 1: because trying to fake take me movement, either to pick
Speaker 1: me don't work work neither. You have to be who
Speaker 1: you are and your soul will be in alignment with
Speaker 1: the soul who was looking exactly for you. You see
Speaker 1: what I'm saying for you and have to conform to
Speaker 1: anybody's idea of what womanhood looks like to find your match.
Speaker 2: That was my thing.
Speaker 3: Think about the energy that you're putting out and that
Speaker 3: you're displaying, because you can be a little off putting
Speaker 3: if you're coming across as somebody who just does not
Speaker 3: need a man for anything kind of you know, like
Speaker 3: we've we've met women like men, even no one like that.
Speaker 2: That's just that I could do about myself.
Speaker 3: But if you desire a relationship, if you desire to
Speaker 3: be someone's wife one day, I don't think there's anything
Speaker 3: wrong with being able to meet somebody and letting them
Speaker 3: see that you have everything together.
Speaker 2: I know we know some men.
Speaker 3: That are looking for a woman like you, absolutely that
Speaker 3: has all these things going for herself. But why not
Speaker 3: meet someone who's equally yoked that you can then get
Speaker 3: together and build with.
Speaker 4: I'm glad you brought that.
Speaker 2: Not everybody wants to be taken care of in that sense.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up because you and I
Speaker 1: and Crystal talk about this all the time. Because she
Speaker 1: is a woman who has a lot, who's done a
Speaker 1: lotself own her own house, ye, own home, owns other properties.
Speaker 2: Right, and doesn't need a man to do anything for her.
Speaker 4: Yeah, makes a lot of money.
Speaker 1: And she asked me all the time, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I think I'm just too intimidating for men. I said, no,
Speaker 1: you're intimidating for the man type of me. Can't you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. That type of man who sees
Speaker 1: that is intimidating. Yes, but that's not the man you
Speaker 1: wanted anyway, because in the recent past, those type of
Speaker 1: men that she dated have often let her down because
Speaker 1: she tried to kind of dumb herself down and try
Speaker 1: to do that and it didn't work for her or him,
Speaker 1: which is just proof in the pudding, right.
Speaker 3: You don't want to have to not use this as
Speaker 3: your full true self and totality, because you have to
Speaker 3: dim your light to be able to make somebody else
Speaker 3: shine or catch on.
Speaker 4: And you know, Crystal, she's not the type that projects
Speaker 4: I don't need a man, not at all.
Speaker 7: She's very, very warm, literatur Absolutely, she's willing to be
Speaker 7: and I know people hate this term, but willing to be.
Speaker 4: Oh, you know what, I'll use that term rather than
Speaker 4: the other s one.
Speaker 1: Ok So I was gonna say, she's willing to be submissive,
Speaker 1: and she found a man who was willing.
Speaker 2: To submis perfect right, because many hate to hear that.
Speaker 1: But she is willing to live in her soft life
Speaker 1: error and wants to and she wants to. Yeah so,
Speaker 1: And our message always to her is like, stop trying
Speaker 1: to change who you are, be who you are and
Speaker 1: let the person who God has designed for y'all. Because
Speaker 1: here's the truth of y'all. People ask me all the
Speaker 1: time that what do you do to dean to do this?
Speaker 1: And I said, the prayer tell you, God delivered this
Speaker 1: woman in my life at a time when I did
Speaker 1: not know I was looking for I weren't.
Speaker 2: I wasn't looking for you.
Speaker 1: We neither one of us went into college talking about lockdown.
Speaker 4: If no, I was about to be a whole hole,
Speaker 4: a whole me too.
Speaker 2: As damn it.
Speaker 7: He was about to hold I been about to hold.
Speaker 7: You can't hold baby, I can't hold. No, you can't right,
Speaker 7: that's you.
Speaker 5: You can't myself because I'm so jealous the thought of
Speaker 5: you hoing in college, know, the.
Speaker 4: Thought of you ohing hypothetically.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the fact that you was been at
Speaker 1: nineteen thinking about you hold with somebody else that's got
Speaker 1: me mad, Like I'm mad, I retract that state that
Speaker 1: I know it's probably the same for you too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but just to say we weren't looking for that
Speaker 2: and then look laps.
Speaker 1: Un working on yourself. God will put you in path
Speaker 1: with what is right.
Speaker 2: For you, your patience.
Speaker 1: And be aware, right, don't what you're looking for you
Speaker 1: may not know is right there. And if you keep
Speaker 1: blocking your blessings by doing other stuff because you think
Speaker 1: you can tell God how your life is gonna go,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna end up being.
Speaker 2: Stuck, stuck so looking stupid.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't change I wouldn't change nothing life.
Speaker 2: No, girl, keep doing your thing.
Speaker 3: The person that is meant for you will find you
Speaker 3: and meet you at your worth.
Speaker 4: Forgot what?
Speaker 1: Remember we were talking to Tiffany, Okay, Tiffany's now with
Speaker 1: AKA and she was talking about how all of these
Speaker 1: women who are now akas are super super successful women
Speaker 1: and later on in life they found their guy after
Speaker 1: chasing after the guy they thought was going to give
Speaker 1: them what they wanted. But now they've settled into who
Speaker 1: they are and they say, fuck it, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: who I am, and they.
Speaker 4: Found the dumb messa.
Speaker 1: It's not intimidated by their success or their career of their.
Speaker 2: Degree, but see somebody that they can build with.
Speaker 4: You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the reason why I wanted to bring that up
Speaker 1: is because Tifity made that a point, like you look
Speaker 1: at all of these women that she's now so roars with,
Speaker 1: and she's like, they're all super successful, making seven figures,
Speaker 1: have their careers, have their kids. They said they had
Speaker 1: their practice husband because they when they got married young,
Speaker 1: they thought they knew what they were looking at at
Speaker 1: a young age. But now they're old and they're like, nah,
Speaker 1: I get it. So sometimes I feel, especially with these questions,
Speaker 1: they're in their twenties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're just trying to figure things out. Thirty one
Speaker 3: years old, single woman, Like.
Speaker 4: Girl, you young, right, I don't know what's different.
Speaker 2: Probably thinking about that clock and that timeline. I know
Speaker 2: you are, girls, I know you are, Yeah, I know
Speaker 2: you are.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 3: Y'all keep writing into us. We love to hear from you.
Speaker 3: If you want to be featured as a listener letter,
Speaker 3: be sure to email us at dead Ass Advice at
Speaker 3: gmail dot com.
Speaker 4: That's d E. A. D A S. S A D
Speaker 4: V I C. E at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: All right, moment of truth time.
Speaker 3: We're talking about sacrificing as parents, the effects of having
Speaker 3: parents who then in turn kind of let you know
Speaker 3: about the sacrifice a couple times over and over again,
Speaker 3: to the point where it builds up guilt or resentment.
Speaker 2: What's your moment of truth today?
Speaker 4: Baby? My moment of truth is simple. It's a little wordy,
Speaker 4: but it's some words have power.
Speaker 1: Guilting your children using the word sacrifice is not going
Speaker 1: to teach them how to sacrifice. You have to empower
Speaker 1: them to realize their own sacrifices and teach them to
Speaker 1: use their own sacrifices as reason as to why they
Speaker 1: need to keep going.
Speaker 3: So pretty much flipping it on them and saying it's
Speaker 3: up to you. You sacrificed to sacrifice.
Speaker 4: Would you stop?
Speaker 1: Rather than saying to your kids, look at all the
Speaker 1: time I spent, Jackson, Look at all the time you
Speaker 1: spent for the last so and so months working on this.
Speaker 4: Why would you give up? Now?
Speaker 1: Think about all of the days that you didn't go
Speaker 1: to your friend's house to play this, and you didn't
Speaker 1: go here because you were focusing on practicing.
Speaker 4: Don't you think you owe yourself? Yeah, the ability to
Speaker 4: keep going and not for nothing.
Speaker 1: When I do say stuff like that to Jackson, he'd
Speaker 1: be like, you're right because I put mat.
Speaker 4: I was in.
Speaker 1: I'm like you did with man, I was in right
Speaker 1: since you put I in, like keep going going, He's like,
Speaker 1: respect the process and say yes, trust it and respect it.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3: I guess my moment in truth time, since I thought
Speaker 3: about this and how I started talking about the effects
Speaker 3: of like my mom and the wording that she used
Speaker 3: with me growing up, and how that really made me
Speaker 3: feel confined and scared to kind of, for lack of
Speaker 3: a better term, spread my wings and fly because I
Speaker 3: was so worried about disappointing her because of the sacrifices
Speaker 3: being made. I also just want us to encourage I
Speaker 3: want to encourage you all, especially our generation, to give
Speaker 3: our parents a little bit of grace because they really
Speaker 3: were doing the best that they could. And I can't
Speaker 3: speak for everyone's parents, but for mine particularly and then
Speaker 3: yours knowing them for the past twenty two years, they
Speaker 3: did the best that they could.
Speaker 2: They did a damn good job.
Speaker 3: Because we're sitting here today who we are because of
Speaker 3: them and at the time understood the lessons. We may
Speaker 3: not have understood the wording or the delivery might have
Speaker 3: fallen flat, but it was all for a greater purpose.
Speaker 3: So let's continue to rally around and support and love
Speaker 3: on our parents who have indeed worked really, really hard
Speaker 3: to give us the life that they felt that we deserved.
Speaker 2: So shout out to shout out to.
Speaker 3: My mom and my dad and to Soup and Ma
Speaker 3: Yes for being awesome, awesome parents and of course elite grandparents.
Speaker 2: We love y'all so much. All right, y'all be sure
Speaker 2: to follow us on Patreon.
Speaker 3: You can find us there for exclusive dead Ass podcast
Speaker 3: video content that after show we popping is the best
Speaker 3: part y'all have said it, we know we love it,
Speaker 3: and you can find more Ellis Family content there as well.
Speaker 3: You can find us on social media also dead Ass
Speaker 3: the Podcast and I'm Kadeen, I.
Speaker 1: Am and I am Devo And if you're listening on
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, be sure to wait, review and subscribe and
Speaker 1: make sure you get your content. We over meet the
Speaker 1: counter intuitive approach you getting everything you want out of
Speaker 1: your relationship.
Speaker 3: Yes, help us make it to one hundred thousand copies
Speaker 3: and more.
Speaker 2: Love y'all.
Speaker 1: Gott dead Ass is a production of iHeartMedia podcast network
Speaker 1: and its produced by Donorapinya and Triple. Follow the podcast
Speaker 1: on social media at dead ass the Podcast and never
Speaker 1: miss a Thing.