WEBVTT - Coronavirus Impact on IT Spending 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:02.960 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.480 Jason Kelly. We're here every day bringing you the latest 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.800 news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.480 all harnessing the power of Bloomberg Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.759 not to mention our journalists and analysts more than a 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.520 hundred and twenty countries. You can download Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.439 on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You can also 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:24.919 listen to our radio show weekdays at two pm Eastern 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:30.280 only on Bloomberg Radio. Carol, we are keeping an eye on, obviously, 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:33.279 everything related to the health side of this. No one 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.560 is following it more closely at Bloomberg than Drew Armstrong. 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:38.840 He leaves all of our health coverage here in the US. 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:42.000 He is spearheading a massive team that is coming at 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:46.680 this from all angles. He joins us on the phone today, Drew, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:51.479 how are you hey, guys? Um, greetings from the suburbs 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.840 of New York City. I'm too and well good good um. 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.160 So tell us what's the one thing we need to 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.240 know today? I mean, you're seeing all of this so 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:02.720 in depth. What do we need to know, based on 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.119 what we've heard from public officials, what you're hearing from 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.399 health officials, and sort of squaring that with maybe this 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.680 market enthusiasm. Yeah, And I think the big thing that 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.319 people are watching right now, and this has really been, 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.160 you know, the thing to watch all along is what 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:24.400 are we seeing in new US cases in the various 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.120 outbreaks here, And that's I want to be clear, you know, 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.960 looking at the number of new cases is a leading indicator, 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:34.280 but it's also a very imperfect one just because of 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:39.640 the significant problems in the US with broad comprehensive testing 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.559 for this disease you would like to do. I'm sure 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.640 a lot of your listeners have read stories, many of 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.080 them written by us, about some of the problems with 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.320 getting enough test out they are getting everybody tested and 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.560 who needs to be tested and so on and so forth. 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.120 But you know, right now, as a leading indicator, it's 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.960 kind of the best thing that we have right now. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.840 And we've seen a number of, you know, indications that 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.120 in New York and New Jersey, which are two of 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:05.680 the hottest outbreaks going on in the United States, that 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.720 new infections imperfectly counted as they may be, appear to 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:14.280 be slowing, and that, you know is overall good news 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.080 in terms of when can some of these restrictions on 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.600 movement and on business being open and on people having 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:24.120 to stay home begin to be loosened. There are a 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:26.919 ton of caveats attached to that, but if you were 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.160 looking for good news, this does feel to be a 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:31.919 little bit of that right. Global cases topping one point 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:35.000 thirty nine million deaths succeeding seventy nine thousand. Those are 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.560 the latest numbers from John's Hopkins. You know, you speak 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:43.440 of um imperfect models. Drew is China the model from 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:47.760 a health case basis the right model to be looking 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:52.320 in terms of the trajectory. You know, I think there 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:54.680 are some things that China tells us and some things 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.320 that don't. There's there's two ways to think about, Like 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.280 when we look at what happened in China and will Hunt, 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.400 we've seen the exact theme dynamic play out in other 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:06.880 locations around the world. You know, I mean and I 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.880 and I and I mean that from the standpoint that 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.119 you know, there are some significant screw ups and then 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.640 problems and then consequences that happened there that has happened 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.600 everywhere else. I mean you know, first in China, we 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.720 had basically the authorities say, hey, this isn't that big 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.280 of a deal. We have this well in hand, you know, 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:27.480 I think they were even saying it doesn't appear to 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.519 be human human transmission. And then we entered a period 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.399 where they didn't really have enough testing capacity, and so 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.400 it seemed like cases will only rising a little bit. 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:38.680 But in fact we had no idea how big the 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:42.000 outbreak was there because they didn't have great testing capacity. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.680 Then all of a sudden they got it. Cases exploded, 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.000 and then by the time that happened, the healthcare system 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.360 in Wuhan got overwhelmed and they had to build immense 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:54.240 new capacity. They had a lot of excess death. Um. 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.800 Those that's exactly what happened in Italy. Um, that's a 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.120 that's that's very similar what happened in the United States. Mean, 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.120 we had, you know, federal leadership here that was saying, 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.600 this is well contained, it's not that big of a deal, 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.040 and then we had a massive problem with testing and 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:08.320 then all of a sudden this thing was out of 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.240 the list. I mean, we've seen the same exact dynamic 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.920 play out. Um. What I think the lessons we can't 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:17.120 take away from from China. Are you know, one, they 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:21.000 did a lockdown that I think would never be allowed 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:25.440 in a democracy period. I mean, people were physically unable 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:28.760 to leave their homes. In many cases, there were reports 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.080 of house to house searches to find six people and 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.040 um haul them off to quarantine centers. Um. You know, 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.800 it may look similar in some respects, but I think 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:39.760 that there are some aspects of that that were much 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.839 more um uh severe. And you know the other issues 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.000 that we've seen reports from you know, the US intelligence 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.920 community that they appeared to significantly undercounted, um or underrepresented 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.360 the severity of the of the outbreak there. And so 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.480 I think we still have some missing pieces of information 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.120 from China, uh that we really don't know how that 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:00.920 it was, and that may have influenced how the world 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:02.640 thought about this disease as well. I mean, you know, 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.640 academics and healthcare folks, they're they're early understanding this thing 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.240 was really relied upon by what we heard coming out 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.520 of China, and it's possible that we got a very 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.599 imperfect picture of that. So, Drew, we were just talking 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.479 with our colleague Sarah Ponzac, you know, well, uh just 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:19.560 a few minutes ago. She drove from New York to 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.360 Florida over the past few days, and you know, painted 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.040 a picture for US of a country, as you know 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.800 very well, that is very uneven in its response. As 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.720 you talked to bureau chiefs, your reporters across the country. 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.640 What's this sense you're getting of the US response which 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:41.039 feels sort of checkered at best. I think there's something 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.960 that you you all have to understand about the response here. 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:45.640 And I and I say that I and I agree 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.000 with you as the response is checkered. But also you know, 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:52.880 outbreaks are local disease commission happened locally. It is a 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.719 person to person phenomenon, and so you know it is 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.200 when we talk about a US response, UM, I don't 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.680 think there should be you know, it doesn't feel like 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.480 there should be homogenevy. And that's just because that's not 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.320 how it works. I mean, neither are These are responses 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.159 that need to be locally calibrated. And one thing that 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.000 you know, there has been quite a quite a bit 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.760 of criticism of the federal government in its response to this, 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.080 But you know, a response that's appropriate in New York, 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.520 where we have hundred forty thousand almost cases confirmed so far, 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.400 maybe very very different than a what a response looks 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.200 like in Wyoming, which you know, doesn't have a massive 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.240 subway system where everybody's holding the same pole and shared 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.960 cars and you know, close confines and things like that. Um, 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:40.040 you know, responses are almost inevitably going to be appropriate 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.760 to the local situation, even if they do share some 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:49.080 um some commonalities throughout aspects of social distancing and things 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.440 like that, in order to avoid spreading cases. But in 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.640 urban location is gonna be really different than a rural one. Um, 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:56.960 A dense city is going to be very you know, 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.400 dense public transportation city is going to be very different 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:01.960 from a car are driven city. So, you know, I 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.200 think that when we talk about a patchwork, I think 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:06.680 in some cases, you know, that is appropriate. I think 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:08.760 what you don't want to see is a patchwork of 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.120 how seriously people take it or how closely they you know, 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:14.880 follow the expert recommendations that are being given to them 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.000 based on those circumstances. Hey, just quickly, you know you 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.040 write about treatment versus cure? Is it the race for 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.360 a treatment versus the race for a cure for the 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.040 virus helping or complicating the US and the world's ability 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.160 to get on top of all of this. Well, you know, 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:31.680 that's a really important dynamic that you that you bring up, 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:36.880 because in reality, a cure here in almost certainly does 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.800 not mean, you know, a drug that eliminates, that just 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.320 kills off the virus. We have we have cured. We 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:47.040 have cured in the in the true sense, one virus ever, 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.440 and that's hepatitis c UM. So it's you know, humanity 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:55.000 one UH viruses a whole lot more than that. However, 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.520 we're pretty good at developing vaccines, and our own immune 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.360 systems are a relatively good at at pushing back some 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.760 of these infections, and so when we talk about cure, 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.360 we should really be talking about vaccines. UM. You know, 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.600 therapeutics are are are in all likelihood going to be 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:11.160 the type of things that are used for people who 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.200 are sick enough to be in the hospital and need them. Um. 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:17.800 You don't need to be administering therapeutics UM in all 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:22.920 likelihood to people who are experiencing the you know, relatively mild, 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.080 if extremely unpleasant version of this. You know, the body 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.400 patients from what we've seen so far, are recovering from 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.720 this disease more or less on their own. You know, 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:35.800 some of those books are getting hospitalizing and are getting 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.160 supportive care, and some of that can be quite intense. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.760 But you know, I think that when we think about 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.480 how therapeutics, what the role therapeutics are gonna play, it's 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.480 probably going to be for some of the people who 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.880 are the most most severe folks and in most in 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.680 need of medical attention. And so when you're talking to 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.800 your medical folks, Drew Armstrong, what are they saying about 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:57.480 this whole push within the administration or at least in 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:01.160 corners of the administration around this time? Llaria drug which 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.040 I will not try and pronounce, Uh, that is certainly 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.560 catching on in at least rhetorically with the president. Yeah, 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:13.640 so that drug and hydroxy chloroquine. It's an old malaria drug, listen. 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:15.400 I mean, you know, if you look around at the evidence, 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.640 it's extremely limited. Um, there haven't really been redoubts from 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:21.959 any meaningful trial that tells you whether or not this 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.640 thing actually works. People say, you know, hey, we gave 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:29.680 this to temptatients and they all got better, Um, you know, 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:31.520 or a lot of them got better, or you know, 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.560 six out of ten of them got better in the 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.600 reality is that most people do get better on their own. 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.240 I think the data on this has been extremely checkery. 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.520 There's been a lot of christmatism of these studies. There 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:45.400 has not been a large conclusive study that tests this 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:49.040 drug against a placebo Um. You know, President Trump has 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.760 faced pushed back from the stage by people like um, 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.679 you know Dr Tony Faucci, who's ahead of the sub 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.360 unit of the of the NH. There's just very very 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.079 little evidence right now in support is if it works, 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.760 that's fantastic news. I think, you know, one of the 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.040 things that we hear over and over and over again 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.240 from the people though who are developing these drugs is 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.680 you need to find out what actually does work. And 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.920 you know, having a system where we let everyone try 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:20.040 everything without any proof whatsoever muddies the waters terribly, puts 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.160 people on therapies that may or may not work, and 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.680 excludes them from therapies that may that we that actually 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.800 may and it it it makes it much harder for 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.080 us to get an answer on what works here, what 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:34.800 is going to help the most number of people to 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.400 get that answer quickly and then to get people onto 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:39.800 those drugs. So Um, there is a There is an 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.760 urging inside the scientific community to do this the right way. Um. 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:45.520 You know, you want to you want to give people 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:47.320 hope and you want to give people care, but you 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.280 also want to give people something that works and that's 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.800 backed by evidence. So we don't waste their you know, 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:55.719 their medical opportunities, their time, their money, all of those things, um, 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.839 while while testing you know, while while trying therapies that 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:00.960 don't have an effect, and right. We want to get 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:02.760 it right because we also don't want to see any 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.480 kind of relapse of an outbreak. You know. One thing 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:07.040 I want to ask you, Drew is and this was 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.040 based on a conversation Jason I had yesterday, you know 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.440 where one of our guests said, basically, we're not gonna 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.000 be able to get back to work fully or you know, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.559 embrace kind of our social lives like we used to 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.560 like big stadiums until we get a vaccine. Is that 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:26.760 the case? I think that's probably you know, there are 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:28.880 definitely aspects to that. I think you're you know, think 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.560 about your own lives and you know, if if someone 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.480 if Governor Cuomo or President Frum said, hey, you know 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.440 we've mostly got the all clear, there's some circulating. I 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.800 don't know if you know how many people would necessarily 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.680 hop right out to a restaurant, you know, start hugging 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:44.720 and you know, shaking hands with people they haven't seen 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.319 in months, you know, grab the subway pole, getting a taxicab, 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:48.920 go back to work. I think this is going to 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.320 take time. You know. One thing that vaccines are are 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.000 good at also is you know, is creating a level 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.160 of certainty and comfort. Um. You know, people want to 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:02.400 know not only have we successfully pushed back this disease 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:04.560 into a small or smaller and smaller and smaller number 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.920 of people through the social distancing measures and the mitigation measures, 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.079 but also that you know, even if they are struck 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.079 by it, that they are you know that they or 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.040 they are exposed to it, that they're protective. I think 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:19.160 a vaccine is pretty crucial in all likelihood and creating 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:23.440 that level of confidence just from a personal comfort standpoint. 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.800 And Drew, what about this notion of the antibody test, 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.679 How realistic is that? Because that's something that a lot 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.040 of folks that I've been talking to even casually are 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.520 saying that could be something that sort of helps spur 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:40.959 us back to work or back into something resembling normal life. Yeah, 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.360 it's theoretically a very very interesting idea. And if it's 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.560 perfect and if it's perfectly accurate, you know, which is 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.439 not necessarily given. Let's be really clear here. You can 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.080 have all of these tests comes when tend to come 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.360 with some level of false positives or false negatives. And 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.240 one of the things that you know, critics of this 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.600 idea say is that, well, you know, if two percent 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.080 of the population has it, you know, or ten percent 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.839 of the population has it, and the false positive rate 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.559 on these antibody tests, which you know, these are detections 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.720 of did you at some point have this virus and 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.200 might you now have some level of immunity? You know, 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:18.080 if your rate of the disease in society is anywhere 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.199 close to the false positive rate on your trial, you 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.720 might run, you know, you might run these antibody tests 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:27.360 on ten thousand people and say, you know, well, hey, 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.239 we found you know, x number of people who are positives. 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.760 These people, you know, presumably they're immune, but it might 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.000 just be that, you know, those are the people who 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.719 are who are the false positives in your test, And 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.240 what you're detecting isn't people who are immune but just 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.880 erroneous test um. So I think they're going to be 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:45.240 you know, I think one of the things that we 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.360 people do think that they're going to be quite useful 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.520 for is measuring the prevalence of this disease, especially in 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.760 places that have had a lot of it like New York, um, 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.040 and where I think it may be, you know where 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.079 I think it. It remains to be seen how useful 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.040 it is is going to be on a purely individual basis, 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.240 And I think to do that, you're going to need 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.880 a level of certainty about the accuracy of these and 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:09.960 that is something that you know that that we know 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.439 people are looking at now. I mean you obviously there 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.600 is a desire to have this be as accurate as possible, 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.320 so you can get exactly the type of answers about, Hey, 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.440 do I have some level of community here? Can I 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.680 go back to work? You know? Did I have this? 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.560 And was I perhaps mildly symptomatical? Was that you know 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:27.760 the thing that I thought was flew back in February 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:29.800 in fact this Those are the types of questions that 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.080 you can get answers to if these tests are accurate enough. Right, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.560 you are are rock star, No doubt about it. Drew Armstrong, 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:38.680 thank you so much. It is a must read on 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.040 the Bloomberg terminal and also at Bloomberg dot com, so 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.080 everyone should check it out. Drew Armstrong busy, busy guy 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.560 and his team. He is the team leader for US Healthcare, 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.080 a Bloomberg News joining us once again on the phone 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:50.800 from New York City. I always feel like I get 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.280 clarity after I talk to Drew. Listen, I've told the 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.320 entire New York hereau of this that when we look 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:57.880 back on this, Drew Armstrong is going to be the 0:14:57.920 --> 0:14:59.520 hero and all of it. I mean, the way he's 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.560 coordinated to the coverage has just been unbelievable and highly 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.680 highly recommend and we talked about this, we recommended all 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.160 the time. If you go to Bloomberg dot com slash Coronavirus, 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.840 you will get all of his team's coverage and much more. Uh, 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.560 it's it's a great destination. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.680 Week with Carol Messer and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:24.160 Let's talk about a story that is in the magazine. Well, 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.960 and it's not just a story, it's a book. Carol, 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.120 I can't I've been so excited for this book to 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.600 come out. Sarah Fryer wrote it. It's called No Filter, 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:36.680 It's about Instagram. There's a fantastic excerpt in the magazine 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.120 this week. Can't get enough of it. Uh, Sarah joins 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.040 us on the phone from San Francisco. First of all, congratulations, 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.320 this is an amazing, amazing accomplishment. How are you feeling? 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.160 I feel good? I mean it. This is what was 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.040 crazy to me about this story is just how much 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:57.520 of it hadn't been hadn't been uncovered, And so I'm 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:00.760 really excited to share the first experts today. Also feel 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.160 like there's there's so much that people will be able 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:07.479 to learn about, not just the tension between Instagram and Facebook, 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:12.240 but also Instagram's cultural impact on our world. So I 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.200 want to also bring in Joe Webber, of course, editor 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.000 Bloomberg Business Week. He's on the phone from Brooklyn. I mean, 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.680 this is such you know, it's a great we know, 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.320 a great book already, Uh, and you've got an excerpt 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.440 in the magazine, but it is such a Business Week 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.560 story as well. We've been following Instagram and Facebook and 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.080 kind of I just want to say the strife between 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:35.160 the two Joe. Yeah, I am so excited for Sarah. Um. 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.640 I think this book is just going to be amazing. 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.320 And I was really honored to be able to publish 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.520 um this particular excerpt because I think it really shows 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.000 a side of Instagram and Facebook that you know, we've 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.120 just no one's really seen it like this before. And 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:55.040 you know, Instagram was this little darling app just barely 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.240 a decade ago, and you know, it just looks like 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:02.000 this bargain that Mark Zuckerberg happened to pick up for 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:06.120 you know, pennies, and now he's turned it into a 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.439 major cash cow that is part of this family of 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.480 apps that he's built at Facebook. But in order to 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.399 get there, along the way, there was a lot of 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.879 internal stripes and tension, and that's ultimately what Sarah was 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:20.879 able to bring to light in this particular part of 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.399 our excerpt. And Um, Sarah, you know, like there's this 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:29.119 pastry that makes an appearance and I just asked you, 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:35.800 this is what what is uh? What is the cruffin? Oh, 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.359 It's it's the San Francisco version of the Rainbow bagel. Basically, 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:44.119 it's it's a it's a crispant muffin and it plays 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:49.880 the launch event for Instagram TV. This this launch event 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.920 was like the most Instagram a little thing possible. They 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:58.520 had Assay e Bols and Macho Late's and UM at 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.520 a Tistor event in New York have like champagne filled 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:07.520 this cotton candy. Uh really. I use that events as 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.760 an example to show the contract between Instagram and Facebook. 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:17.480 Instagram is really about UM presenting your life as this 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:23.320 this beautiful, manicured version, and Facebook is about this building 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:28.960 your network and having friend connections, and the philosophies of 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.080 the two products really aligned with the founders and what 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:36.399 kind of people they are. Zuckerberg being this dominant force 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:42.200 trying to win over more and more of of humanity's attention, 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:46.800 and Instagram trying to create a place where you know, 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:52.200 culture can be appreciated and people can become uh, become 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:58.120 recognized for their own brands and so so eventually these 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:03.320 two clash, and when they're announcing I DTV in twenty team, 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:07.280 that was a moment for System realizing that Instagram wasn't 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:12.920 really going to be allowed to thrive without without Zuckerberg's 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.639 intense involvement in every step of the way, which is 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.600 very different than the independence the company rejected in the past. 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.320 And and Mark Zuckerberg, I mean you really tease out 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.560 some sort of personality conflicts too, that Ivious had huge 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.480 business applications as you're alluding to, Uh, Sarah, I would 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:36.000 imagine there's much more in the book about this, because 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.399 that was sort of the the key point of tension 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:42.960 that Carol alluded to at the top of the conversation. Yeah, 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:48.000 Zuckerberg is is all about winning. He He's not about 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:52.040 you know, being careful and and having um, you know, 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:54.800 a lot of attention to detail and so and so 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:56.840 we see that play out in their product strategy. Means 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.520 Zuckerberg tried a million different things to counter the rise 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:05.320 of Snapchat. Instagram tried one and it worked and and 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:11.320 I think that uh, eventually, when Instagram's growth actually accelerated 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:16.320 after copying Snapchat stories, Zuckerberg saw a threat to Facebook. 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:20.119 He saw that the Instagram way of doing things was 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:25.120 gaining popularity, maybe at the expense of Facebook's longevity. And 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:30.480 being the dominating force that he is and really caring 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:35.159 about his flagship products, he started talking about cannibalization, the 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:40.040 idea that Instagram success would eat into Facebook potential and 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:43.440 started driving the fingers away right and a pact basically 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:48.720 his baby Facebook. Like, it's just it's really phenomenal. Um, Sarah, congratulations, 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:51.000 were so excited for you. The book is No Filter, 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.320 the inside story of Instagram. Check out the book, check 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.240 out the excerpt that is in the magazine. This week, 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.080 you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.879 Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Well, companies, as we know, 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.520 are retrenching. We talk about cutting back on spending, letting 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.879 go of workers, stopping buy backs and conserving cash and 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.280 cutting costs in light of the virus. Here with what 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.720 that means for I T spending, the good and the bad. 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:21.040 Crawford del Perette his president of I DC Research Xerox 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:23.439 or I d C forgive me I d C, and 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:27.800