1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Hey Bessies, Hello Sunshine. Today we're diving into a tale 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,959 Speaker 1: that's as gripping as the best true crime mysteries. Imagine 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: uncovering family secrets so intriguing they lead you on a 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: journey all the way to Italy to figure them out. 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: We're thrilled to chat with best selling author, podcaster and 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: journalist Joe Piazza, who did just that to unravel her 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: grandmother's mysterious death. Stay tuned for an unforgettable conversation. It's Tuesday, 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 1: July sixteenth. 9 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe, I'm Simone Boys, and this is the 10 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: right side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we 11 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 2: come together to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 2: your day. 13 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: Stories. Stories. We have such an emphasis on stories, and 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: you know, we all have these family stories that we 15 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: hear about growing up, whether they're big or small folklore, 16 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: like I think we hear whispers from our relatives. Did 17 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: you have that? 18 00:00:58,720 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 3: Of course? 19 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: I think every family does. You know, every family has 20 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 2: an interesting story and if you dig deep enough you'll 21 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: find it. 22 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: Well. Our guest today took one of those lures and 23 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: actually went to Italy. She went to Sicily to explore it. 24 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: And through this process of exploration brings to life an 25 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: untold story which we are going to dive deep into. 26 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: But it really got me thinking about our own family stories. 27 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: And someone I know, your grandmother was such a force. 28 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,279 Speaker 2: Oh, she was such a legend. She was a black 29 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: woman during the Civil rights era, and she left her 30 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 2: mark on her community in a big way. Her name 31 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 2: was Bonnie John's and this is my mom, Sheila's mother. 32 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: And when Bonnie was little, she was so poor, she 33 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: only had one pair of shoes to wear to school, 34 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: and all the kids would make fun of her. I 35 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: grew up hearing this story over and over again, and 36 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: the moral of the story was that her education was 37 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: her way out of that poverty. It was her way 38 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 2: to escape that and so she just invested all in 39 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: in her education. And later in life, she actually ran 40 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: for public office won a seat on the school board 41 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: in Maryland during this seven She was the only black 42 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: school board member during integration, and she fought tirelessly for 43 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: black students to have access to the same quality of 44 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 2: education as their white peers. And to this day, there 45 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: is a building named after my grandmother, Bonnie John's in 46 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: my family's community in Maryland. That's so cool. I'd need 47 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: a photo of you in front of that building. 48 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 3: Oh, that's a great idea. I got to do that. 49 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: I just also want to say that I think that 50 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: those values that your grandmother held like come through you 51 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: so vibrantly. I see it all the time. My grandmother 52 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: Roady is eighty eight years old. She lives in Chicago, 53 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: and in the winters, she lives in Florida. Now. Her 54 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: family was from Amsterdam, and she grew up during Hitler's Germany, 55 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: and so her family heard rumblings of all of this, 56 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: but they thought, oh, it could never come all the 57 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: way to Holland, it could never make it to Amsterdam. 58 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: And it did. She was taken from her home in 59 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: the middle of the night at five years old. She 60 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: went on a train to a camp called Vesterborg. My 61 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: great grandfather was a tailor, and a guy who worked 62 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: across the street from him, like their whole lives, had 63 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: to join the Nazi Party. He was forced to. He 64 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: didn't want to, and he saw one of the kid's 65 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: names on a list and said, my great aunt Stella 66 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: was going to go to death camp. And so he 67 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: tipped my great grandfather off and they paid off the 68 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: Nazis to save her life. They stayed at that camp, Investorborg, 69 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: which was a work camp, not a death camp. And 70 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: it changed the legacy of my family drastically. And so 71 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: my grandmother Rody is super active in the Holocaust Museum 72 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: and she speaks all over the country. It's really pretty 73 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: amazing to see her in that light, because I see 74 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: her as like my grandmother that I would go over 75 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: to her house and see all of her like old 76 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: trinkets and photos, and she would make every meal for 77 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: every holiday. They actually made a VR film about her 78 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: life last year. The ending scene is all of us 79 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: in her living room like dining room table, and there's 80 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: over twenty of us and it ends with the idea 81 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: that Hitler tried to wipe all these people out, and 82 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: look what she has built and the legacy that she 83 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: has really built for our family. And so that story, 84 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: similar to what you said, Simone, like just permeated my childhood. 85 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: And I think when you grow up, regardless of what 86 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: that story is, whether it's your own grandmother or somebody else, 87 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: it really sort of dictates your values the direction of 88 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: your life. And so I think today is going to 89 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: be really powerful because there's this matriarchal figure in our guest, 90 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: Joe's life who was life changing. 91 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 2: Well in the same way that you revisited the sites 92 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 2: that meant so much to your family, Danielle, our guest 93 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 2: today retrace the footsteps of a larger than life matriarch 94 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: in her family story to uncover the truth about her 95 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 2: great great grandmother's mysterious death. So Joe Piazza is a 96 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 2: best selling author, podcast host, and investigator of not just 97 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 2: her family stories, but other women's stories as well. She's 98 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 2: written multiple books, including Charlotte Walsh Likes to Win, and 99 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 2: she also hosted Under the Influence, which is this really 100 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: fascinating podcast that dives into the business of social media 101 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 2: mom influencers. 102 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,239 Speaker 1: She also had this article in l which is how 103 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: I first found her writing, and it's all about how 104 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: she gave herself her own engagement rank. So regardless of 105 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: your marital status, please go check that out. And her 106 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: latest project, The Sicilian Inheritance, is inspired by the story 107 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: of Lorenza Marsala, her great great grandmother and Joe's dad 108 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: became absolutely obsessed with piecing together what really happened in 109 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: her mysterious death. So after he died, Joe came across 110 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: an old email from him filled with information about Lorenza, 111 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: and that's when she decided to dig into the mystery 112 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: really on his behalf. 113 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 2: And through this investigation, she's bringing a Jens Old story 114 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: to life. And she's here with us on the show today. 115 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 2: We are in for a wild ride. Welcome to the 116 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: bright Side. 117 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: Joe. 118 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 3: Hello, thank you so much for having me. 119 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: You have such a quintessential Italian name, so it's fun 120 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: to say Piazza, especially for what we're about to talk 121 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: about today. 122 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 3: Oh my god, totally, totally, and I really love the 123 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 3: enthusiasm that you've said it with. Just like Piazza. But 124 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 3: I mean, like as as everyone knows, like Piazza just 125 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 3: means like town square in Italy. So when you say 126 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 3: Piazza there, they're like, yeah, I know, we're here. We're 127 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: just standing here in front of the city Hall. Yeah. 128 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: We are going to talk all about you and your work, Joe. 129 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: I mean, you've centered women in the stories that you 130 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 2: tell as an author. You recently published a book and 131 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: podcast about an ancestor of yours, which we are going 132 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: to get into. You've also reported on influencer culture in 133 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: the show Under the Influence. You've also covered Laura Ingalls 134 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 2: Wilder and the show Wilder. What makes something a Joe 135 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: Piazza story. 136 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that's a question that my agents are 137 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 3: constantly asking me. They're like, what's your lane? Girlfriend? And 138 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: I mean, I actually love the way that you just 139 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 3: framed it, because, to be honest, I've been a journalist 140 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 3: for twenty three years now, I've been writing books for 141 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 3: about thirteen years, and if there's one through line through 142 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 3: it all, it's, you know, women's stories that haven't been 143 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 3: told before, brave and badass women's stories that I think 144 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 3: deserve to be told. And that doesn't always fit neatly 145 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 3: into a genre. It's not just like mystery thriller or 146 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 3: you know, spicy romance, although you know, I like to 147 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 3: write about all those things too, within the context of 148 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 3: badass women. But those are the stories that have always 149 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 3: gotten me excited. For most of human history, we've seen 150 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 3: men writing history, and so to be able to tell 151 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 3: the stories of women really feels like such an honor. 152 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 3: And I also I call myself a storyteller now more 153 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 3: than I do a journalist or an author, even though 154 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 3: I do both of those things. Because I think different 155 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 3: stories want to be told in different genres, and my 156 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 3: biggest goal is to meet the audience where they're at 157 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 3: with a particular story. So I'm like, oh, okay, is 158 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 3: this going to be great in a podcast? Awesome, Let's 159 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 3: do this in audio. Is this going to be good 160 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 3: for a short, fun sub stack? Okay? Great? That is 161 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: just as valid as like a novel with a big 162 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 3: publishing house to. 163 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: Me, if I may add, I also think that you 164 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: take a traditional narrative and you flip it on its head, 165 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: because you've done that so many different times. One of 166 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: the reasons I found you originally was you wrote an 167 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: article in l called why I bought myself an engagement ring? 168 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: And that's taking this traditional idea and flipping it on 169 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: its head, and you always have such a feminist perspective. 170 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 3: I love that story and it's funny. I mean, I 171 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 3: wrote that almost ten years ago, because I've been married 172 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 3: almost ten years and I wrote it right before I 173 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 3: got married, and I bought you fling. I know, I know, right, 174 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 3: I bought that ring in a Tanzania, And I just 175 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 3: love the idea of flipping that narrative, right, Like, why 176 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 3: as women do we have to wait for men to 177 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 3: buy us this thing, like we need that to move 178 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 3: on to the next stage of our lives. That seemed 179 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: ridiculous to me. And by the way, I'm not acting 180 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 3: all high and mighty. It only seemed ridiculous after like 181 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 3: years of bemoaning why I was the last one of 182 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 3: my single friends. Okay, so like I went through all 183 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 3: of the crap, bought myself an engagement ring, and then 184 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 3: essentially just conjured my fiance on a boat in the 185 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 3: Galapagos three months later. 186 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 2: I also see you as a bit of a cultural anthropologist, 187 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 2: because it seems like there is no territory or era 188 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 2: that goes untouched for you, Like you follow your curiosity. 189 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 2: If there's an interesting, badass woman who is flipping the script, 190 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: you're going to find her and you're going to cover her. 191 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 2: What have you discovered about womanhood through each of these stories? 192 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 3: You know that we are just so much stronger and 193 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 3: braver than anyone ever gives women credit for, and that 194 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 3: it has been women holding society together at the seams 195 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 3: pretty much since the beginning of society. But it's always 196 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 3: their stories that haven't been told. My favorite nonfiction book 197 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 3: is a little book I wrote called If Nuns Ruled 198 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 3: the World, and it's ten stories of bad ass feminist 199 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 3: nuns who I think nuns have been turned into a 200 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 3: caricature for so long, when really it was a way 201 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 3: to escape the feminist tropes of getting married and being 202 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 3: forced to be a wife and a mother. These women 203 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 3: could continue getting their education. They were running colleges, they 204 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 3: were running hospitals, they were running entire communities and taking 205 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 3: care of the sick and running the economies of these 206 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 3: small villages, especially when so many men were constantly leaving 207 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 3: and going off to wars in Europe, right, no one 208 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 3: ever recognized the nuns. In fact, when I talk to them, 209 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 3: you know, they say, we've really we haven't just been 210 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: written out of history. We've been mocked throughout history, because 211 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 3: the easiest way to take away someone's power is to 212 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 3: mock them. And so I think that's one of the 213 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 3: best examples of a narrative that just has been buried 214 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 3: in history, of powerful, strong women that the world doesn't 215 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 3: want to think about. 216 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: I love that you also said women that they don't 217 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 1: want to think about, Yeah, because that really is the case. 218 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: I cite this statistic all the time because I find 219 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: it just wild. But zero point five percent of recorded 220 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: history is made up of women's stories. And there are 221 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: so many women's stories to share, they just haven't been told, 222 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: haven't been shared, haven't been recorded. 223 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 3: Or they have been but then they get lost, they 224 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 3: get buried because not only is it not women writing 225 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: down history so often recording history, but it hasn't been 226 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 3: the women archiving history. And so when you think about 227 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 3: the people responsible for maintaining records, it has typically been men, 228 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 3: you know, male bureaucrats, male archivists keeping track of things, 229 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 3: as opposed to women. So it's not just that we 230 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 3: haven't been writing it, it's that we haven't been the 231 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 3: keepers of history. 232 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: Joe, we have to take another short break, but we'll 233 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: be back in just a minute. Don't go anywhere, and 234 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: we're back with Joe Piazza. So your book and your podcast, 235 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: your newest one is The Sicilian Inheritance, and it looks 236 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: at the suspicious death of one of your ancestors more 237 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: than one hundred years ago. And we live in a 238 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: true crime obsessed culture, but this is sort of like 239 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: a true crime story in your own family. So for 240 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: anyone who hasn't listened yet, can you set up the 241 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: story for all of us. Who is Lorenza Marsala? 242 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 3: Yes, also, isn't that name so good? If my husband 243 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 3: weren't already fixed, I would have another baby and name 244 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 3: her Lorenza Marsala. Lorenza Marsala is my great great grandmother 245 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 3: on my dad's side from Sicily. And you know, for 246 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 3: my whole life, I've been hearing this story about how 247 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 3: she was the family matriarch and how her husband Antonino 248 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 3: came here to America. All of her sons came here, 249 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 3: they came to make their fortune, left her behind in Sicily, 250 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 3: and she was murdered in Sicily before she could join them. 251 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 3: And my family has a couple of different theories about this. 252 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 3: The men all think that it was it was the 253 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 3: mafia that killed her, because they all seem to think 254 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 3: that they're Tony Soprano. And the women all think that 255 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 3: she was killed because she was a witch and a healer, 256 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 3: because all of my female ancestors think that they're Sicilian witches, 257 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 3: and they're probably right, they really are. But you know, 258 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 3: it was one of those family stories that just kind 259 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 3: of gets told in passing. You know, it's like a 260 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 3: mythology and a lot of my relatives didn't even know 261 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 3: her real name. They're like, just you know, my great grandmother, 262 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 3: my great great grandmother. I've been fascinated by it for 263 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: a long time, and so I started writing a fictional 264 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 3: novel called The Sicilian Inheritance, loosely based on Lorenzo's story. 265 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 3: I didn't want to know the real story at that time, 266 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 3: because I was really intently writing during the pandemic, and 267 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 3: I wanted to have an adventure, and I wanted to 268 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 3: write the adventure that I knew we all wanted to have. 269 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 3: I wanted to transport us to Sicily and also to 270 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 3: time this uniquely feminist time in Sicilian history, which I 271 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 3: discovered when I started doing research about the time period, 272 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 3: when you know, hundreds of thousands of men left Sicily 273 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 3: to come to America. Many of the towns were left 274 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 3: to the women and the children, and the women took 275 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 3: the men's jobs, and they started buying and selling land 276 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 3: under their own names and lending money, and they had power, 277 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 3: like real power for the first time in their lives. 278 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 3: And it was this unique feminist moment in Sicilian history 279 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 3: that I had certainly never heard about, that I had 280 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 3: not seen written about a lot in pop culture that 281 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 3: appears in academic papers, but nowhere for a real mass 282 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 3: audience to absorb it. And so that's what I really 283 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 3: wanted to focus on in this book, a modern day 284 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 3: woman going back to unravel this mystery and discovering this 285 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 3: feminist time in Sicilian history, you know, laced with romance, 286 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 3: an adventure, and the most delicious food that you've ever 287 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 3: read about. But then when I finished the book, I 288 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 3: started thinking, well, I would be doing a disservice to 289 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 3: her and also to all of the women like Lorenza 290 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 3: if I didn't actually try to solve her murder in 291 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 3: real life. My husband thought I was joking when I 292 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 3: was like, we should go to Sicily this summer and 293 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 3: solve this murder, And all of a sudden, I bought 294 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 3: plane tickets and he's like, I really just thought you 295 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 3: had had two tequilas and we're kidding about solving a murder. 296 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh no, we're going with all three 297 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 3: of our children under the age of seven. And so 298 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 3: we took our whole family of five to Sicily to 299 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 3: start researching this murder. And that turned into the Sicilian 300 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 3: Inheritance podcast, which is a true crime adjacent show Unraveling 301 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 3: This century Old Murder. 302 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 2: Did you know how to end the book before you 303 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 2: started writing it or was the ending something that you 304 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: discovered in the process. 305 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 3: I love that question because I am not an outliner. 306 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 3: I don't outline my books at all. I sit down 307 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 3: and I literally fly by the seat of my pants. 308 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 3: Other writers apparently call this being a pantser, which I 309 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 3: only recently discovered, and when I heard it, I was like, 310 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 3: pantser meant something so different when I was in junior high. 311 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 3: But okay, yeah, sure, I'm a pants I fly by 312 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 3: the stat of my pants. The only thing I knew 313 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 3: without revealing anything is the twist that happens at the 314 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 3: end of the book. I knew that was going to happen, 315 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 3: and I knew it was going to be a banger, 316 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 3: but I didn't know how we were going to get there, 317 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 3: and so everything else just kind of came to me 318 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 3: along the way. And it's been really interesting because I 319 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 3: did so much research about Sicily for the novel, but 320 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 3: didn't research Lorenzo's actual story while writing the book, because, 321 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 3: like I said, I wanted to be able for it 322 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 3: to be fiction, for the characters to develop, but after 323 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 3: I finished the book, it was turned in, it went 324 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 3: to copy editing. I mean, it was essentially printed and 325 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 3: ready to go to stores when I was investigating the 326 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 3: real murder. There were so many similarities that it is 327 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 3: now completely eerie. And at one point during the podcast, 328 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 3: I actually interview a medium, Marianne DeMarco. She's a Sicilian 329 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 3: American who lives on Long Island, because apparently all on 330 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 3: Long Island, and so she said something, and I'm not 331 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 3: a wo wou person, but she was like, I can 332 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 3: feel all of these Sicilian women, not just her ancestors, 333 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 3: but these women whose stories haven't been told, and they've 334 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 3: just been nudging you along as you've been working on 335 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 3: this book and feeding you information and feeding you stories, 336 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 3: and same with the podcast, and just little nuggets of information. 337 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 3: And I really felt it along the way, like there 338 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 3: were some things that I wrote that I could not 339 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 3: have known were true, that were true. And I still 340 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 3: get chills when I'm thinking about it now. But yeah, 341 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 3: because I do think that those women wanted their stories told. 342 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 2: Can you give us one example of that? 343 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 1: Oh? 344 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 3: My god, so many? Okay, So one of my favorite 345 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 3: ones is this character appears in the book She's a 346 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 3: hotel owner who lives in this tiny village called Caltabalessa 347 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 3: in the book, which is based on my family's village 348 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 3: of Culta Balota. So there's a woman who owns a 349 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 3: hotel and her name is just A and it's Juicy 350 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 3: for sure. Now, I had no idea that Justesseppina was 351 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 3: even a name all right, much less that Juicy was 352 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 3: the nickname for that name. I was like, it was 353 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 3: kind of a placeholder, right, Like I knew Giuseppe was 354 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 3: a name, and I knew that they feminized a lot 355 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 3: of names, but I'm like, God, this sounds fun. And 356 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 3: I also like the nickname Juicy really fits her. She's 357 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 3: like this bold brush woman who's like taking control of everything. 358 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 3: And I just kept it and kept it and it 359 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 3: never changed it. And then I eventually found out it 360 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 3: is the most common name in the town where my 361 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 3: family is from for women, and Juicy is indeed the nickname. 362 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 3: And when I was there in March of this year 363 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 3: and I was in the cemetery, it's like every other 364 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 3: grave was a Jusppoina, which was so interesting, Like these 365 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 3: are just things that like kind of got to me 366 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 3: along the way, And I don't know. I don't know 367 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 3: where they came from. I really don't. 368 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: So I want to tap into that a little bit 369 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 1: because the psychic experience is my favorite aspect of this story. 370 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: The psychic that you spoke to gave you an incredible 371 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: term for Lorenza, and she called her a strong mouthed woman. 372 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: How did this story change your perspective on your family's 373 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: matriarch and what have you seen passed down through generations 374 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: from her now that you know her better. 375 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, when I first heard the story of 376 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 3: her being killed back in Sicily, you know, I didn't 377 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 3: picture her the way that she actually looks, And I 378 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 3: think I had this like very cultural stereotype of like, 379 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 3: you know, a Sicilian grandma. She's at the stove and 380 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 3: she's like making your sauce, and she's like making your meatballs. 381 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 3: I mean, none of which could I mean, it just 382 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 3: couldn't be further from the truth, when in reality, finally, 383 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 3: when I discovered a picture of her, I'm like, oh 384 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 3: my gosh, that woman's eyes could cut glass. Like she 385 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 3: looks terrifying and powerful and in control. And the fact 386 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 3: that my family didn't know her name, that they didn't 387 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 3: know really anything about her is now shocking to me, 388 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 3: but it wasn't when I first started. It just seemed 389 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 3: kind of normal. But I'm like, why did we passed 390 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 3: down this story of her death and nothing about her life. 391 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 3: When I went back through land records, I discovered that 392 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 3: she was indeed buying and selling land under her own name, 393 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 3: and that maybe she never planned to come to America, 394 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 3: and that you know, she lived in this like little 395 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 3: area of the village, really close to her sister and 396 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 3: close to her close friends. And she's the one that 397 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 3: paid for the passage, not just for her husband to 398 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 3: go to America, but for each and every one of 399 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 3: her sons. Like she was making the money over there. 400 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 3: She was supporting everybody. And you know, there's also some 401 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 3: rumors that she was perhaps a money lender and that 402 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 3: she crossed the wrong people. I mean, she was a 403 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 3: force to be reckoned with. So to hear Mary Anne 404 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 3: say she's a strong mouthed woman, I'm like, oh, my gosh, 405 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 3: how many other strong mouthed women are there in my family? 406 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 3: Like that makes so much sense. We are a family 407 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 3: of strong mouthed women, So of course she was. But 408 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 3: you know, just the fact that we didn't picture her 409 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 3: like that. Again speaks to how much we lose women's 410 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 3: strength and bravery when we're not hearing their stories directly 411 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 3: from them. 412 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 2: There's so much familiar pride imbued in this story. I mean, 413 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 2: you said that your daughter was a huge inspiration for you. 414 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 2: I know that your dad was always fascinated with this 415 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 2: lore that's in your family. 416 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: What do you think? 417 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 2: And I know that he always wanted to be a 418 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 2: journalist and he enjoyed researching her and trying to figure 419 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 2: out what happened to her and piecing the story together. 420 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 2: What do you think that he would think of the 421 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 2: book and the podcast now? 422 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 3: I think about that a lot. My dad loved piecing 423 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 3: together family history. He wanted to be a journalist. He 424 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 3: wanted to be a writer, and he ended up becoming 425 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 3: a claims attorney instead, the opposite of a journalist, really, 426 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 3: and he always you know, he pushed me to be 427 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 3: a writer. But he was really, really supportive. And he 428 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 3: had really bad muscular dystrophy for the last ten years 429 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 3: of his life and couldn't get around as well as 430 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 3: he used to, and his whole life really became the 431 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 3: computer in a way, and where he could travel around 432 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 3: the world through his research. So he did a lot 433 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 3: of research on ancestry and trying to reach out to 434 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 3: people on Facebook. And while he was sick, he did 435 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 3: make it to Sicily about three or four times, and 436 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 3: you know, he did interviews with people in the town. 437 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 3: A lot of those have been lost because we lost 438 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 3: his computer when he passed away. We couldn't get into anything. 439 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 3: I felt him with me. I mean, again, I sound 440 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,239 Speaker 3: very woo woo when I say these things, but you know, 441 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 3: I genuinely felt him, you know, cheering me on as 442 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 3: I was doing this project, and it it really helped 443 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 3: me grieve him in a way that I hadn't grieved 444 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 3: him before, because when he passed away, I had just 445 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 3: gotten married, I just moved across the country, I just 446 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 3: lost my job, and I was pregnant with my first baby. 447 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 3: And grieving is impossible when you're in the midst of 448 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 3: that many life changes at once, and writing this book 449 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 3: and following in his footsteps, and you know, even reading 450 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 3: the few emails and messages from him that I had 451 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 3: left behind, some to me and some to other people. 452 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 3: I mean, I've cried more over his death in the 453 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 3: past two years than I did right after he passed 454 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 3: away nearly a decade ago, because I was finally able 455 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 3: to get that kind of closure. I feel like I've 456 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 3: been in conversation with him while I've been writing this book, 457 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 3: and it's been a really beautiful process. 458 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: You approached this story with two perspectives. There was one 459 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: fictional wishes your novel, and then one factual with your podcast. 460 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: Why did you make that choice? 461 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 3: Because I think that the story begged to be told 462 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 3: in two different ways, right, And I'm actually really glad 463 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 3: that I did it in this way because they're both 464 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 3: going to reach a different audience, and those audiences may 465 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 3: end up crossing over, but their paths to them will 466 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 3: likely be different. So the Sicilian Inheritance the novel, like 467 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 3: I said, it has been packaged as a delicious, adventurous 468 00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 3: beach read. I mean it's on every summer beach read, 469 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 3: which I love. I'm like, yeah, go pick up the book, 470 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 3: read it and by the pool, read it by the beach, 471 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 3: read it while you're ignoring your children. I love that. 472 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 3: And while I did set out to write this delicious adventure, 473 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 3: it has these strong themes of women's agency and women's 474 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 3: ambition and women working together to fight against the patriarchy. 475 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 3: Do I love the idea of someone picking this up 476 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 3: and thinking that they're getting a delicious adventure and then 477 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 3: just being like, oh my god, Yes, I would love 478 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 3: to support other women too. Yes, I love these stories 479 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 3: of ambitious, badass women. And so I think that you know, 480 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,239 Speaker 3: by packaging this in an adventure and something that is 481 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 3: very easy to consume and read and is fun, I mean, 482 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 3: first and foremost, I wanted to write a book that 483 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 3: was fun again because I had been reading so many 484 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 3: books that were so good but were so dark, and 485 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 3: so I'm like, I just want to have fun reading again. 486 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 3: And then, you know, for reporting out the real story, 487 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 3: audio completely fun, like the most natural way to do that, 488 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 3: because I find audio such an intimate setting. It is 489 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 3: the best way to transport someone to another location. And 490 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 3: another time, when I knew that I wanted to solve 491 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 3: the real life mystery, I was like, oh, yeah, no, 492 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 3: we're doing this as a podcast. This is like, this 493 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 3: is definitely definitely the right setting for this. I really 494 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 3: wanted to transport us there, to take us I mean, 495 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 3: not just across the ocean, but also travel back through 496 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 3: time to really really understand Lorenza story. 497 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: What do you think Lorenzo would think of Sicilian Inheritance? 498 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 3: I think she'd like it, I really do. I mean, 499 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 3: I think, like I said, those women were so I 500 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 3: mean not all women, right, Like we can't say a 501 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 3: blanket statement all the women in Sily, but like so 502 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 3: many of those women were so ambitious and they wanted 503 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 3: much more out of their lives than they were allowed 504 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 3: to have. And so I think, you know, she would 505 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 3: really enjoy getting to read this perhaps alternate ending to 506 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 3: her story. Although I'm not going to ruin the podcast 507 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 3: or the book for anyone, and you can listen while 508 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 3: you read, because they're not at all parallel. There's no spoilers. 509 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 3: But if you get through both of them, the real 510 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 3: life ending of the podcast, there may be some crossover 511 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 3: with what I imagined in the book, which I think 512 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 3: is very very interesting. 513 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 2: Okay, we need to take a quick break, but we'll 514 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 2: be right back with author, journalist, and podcaster Joe Piazza. 515 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 2: And we're back with Joe Piazza. Joe, what did it 516 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 2: mean to you to be Sicilian before you embarked on 517 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 2: this journey and what does it mean to you now? 518 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 3: I mean honestly, everything about that has changed, you know, 519 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 3: very I was proud of my Sicilian heritage in a 520 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 3: very surface kind of way. I was like, I'm proud 521 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 3: to come, you know, from these strong people who left 522 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 3: a life of poverty to come to America. I didn't 523 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 3: know nearly enough about Sicilian history and everything that had 524 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 3: happened on that island for the previous three thousand and 525 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 3: four thousand years, which was one of the most fun 526 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 3: parts about reporting out this book. I mean, Sicily is 527 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 3: an island that has been conquered over and over again, 528 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 3: I mean pretty much by every conquering force tangential to 529 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 3: the Mediterranean. It's why their food is so good, to 530 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 3: be honest. But there are also people that, you know, 531 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 3: have had to remain strong in the force of opposition, 532 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 3: but also maintain a tight community in the face of opposition, 533 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 3: including the women. And it is a history filled with 534 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 3: strong women who held their families together as the island 535 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 3: was being plundered over and over again, as the men 536 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 3: were being sent away, as the men were being killed, 537 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 3: was always the women who held these communities together. And 538 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 3: that's what I think about. I mean, that's my biggest takeaway. 539 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 3: I'm so proud of being a Sicilian American now in 540 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 3: a way that I'm like it was fine before, great, 541 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 3: but like now I'm like, oh, my gosh, yes, I'm 542 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 3: getting my first tattoo. Guys, actually, wait, we love this. 543 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: So Brooke Baldwin came on and told us about her 544 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: bad girl era getting tattoos. What is your tattoo? 545 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 3: Gonna say, my gosh, I'm getting my first one at 546 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 3: age forty four, and I'm getting the Medusa from the 547 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 3: Sicilian flag because we talk about Medusa a little bit 548 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 3: in the book, and we talk a lot in the 549 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 3: book about how the Greek myths, many of them originated 550 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 3: it justly because Sicily was part of Greece, right, And 551 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 3: I kind of flipped the narrative of Medusa on its 552 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 3: head and say was she a monster? Or was she 553 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 3: just sick of men come into her house? 554 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: Like? 555 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 3: Was she a badass woman? Who is just like I 556 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 3: have had enough and I will not be treated like this. 557 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 3: And I love the fact that Medusa is on the 558 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 3: Sicilian flag, and so yeah, I'll send everyone pictures when 559 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 3: it's done. I'm so excited. I think that I'm doing 560 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 3: it on my forearm, but I'm not sure. So we've 561 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 3: been drawing practice tattoos on different places in my body 562 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 3: and deciding how we feel about it. 563 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: Wow, this is a big deal, is we? Meaning you 564 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: and your husband, me. 565 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 3: And my husband, and also we are we're up here 566 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 3: in the cast skills right now, and one of our 567 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 3: best friends is an actual artist and a children's book illustrator. 568 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 3: And every time I've had like one catchuo, I'm like Steve, 569 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 3: and can you draw them a dusa on my arm? 570 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 3: And then he does, and then he does. My mom 571 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 3: is up here with us, helping us with our kids, 572 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 3: and she's sixty nine years old, and I was like, Mom, 573 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 3: I'm gonna get my first tattoo. I just generally felt 574 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 3: like she thought tattoos were kind of tacky and she 575 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 3: wasn't into them. And she's like, I want a tattoo too, 576 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 3: and I'm like what And she's like, I would like 577 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,719 Speaker 3: Denari's Tigerian's dragon from Game of Thrones, and I'm like, really, 578 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 3: tracing Piazza, really like this is who you are right now. 579 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 3: So we're getting our tattoos together. Actually as a mother 580 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 3: daughter tattoo session. 581 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: That's so Special's really exciting. 582 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 3: Actually, this is something that I never would have envisioned 583 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 3: for us years. Like I feel a new book coming on. 584 00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 2: I feel like this is the start of a new 585 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 2: new book, news a podcast. 586 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, Shoe. 587 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm hearing from you is 588 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: that you're sort of leaning into this theme of adventure 589 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: even now that you're home from Sicily. Is that something 590 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: that came from this experience in this trip or you've 591 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: always been like this. 592 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 3: No, I've definitely always been like this, for sure. And 593 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 3: I also married someone who was like this right Like 594 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 3: I got married when I was thirty five years old. 595 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 3: I didn't meet Nick until I was thirty four. We 596 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 3: were both journalists, Like I said, we met on a 597 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 3: boat in the Galapagos Islands, like I married someone who 598 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 3: loved to travel. Our fourth date was in Paris. We 599 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 3: got engaged in three months, Like we had this whirlwind romance. 600 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 3: You know, I wanted to be with someone who wanted 601 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 3: to have these adventures with me, who wanted to, you know, 602 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 3: have these adventures with our children, because even though they're 603 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 3: so little and they may not remember the details, I 604 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 3: think they'll remember the spirit of it. And that's what 605 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 3: I think about all the time. But even though I've 606 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 3: always been like this. I wrote this piece for Cosmo 607 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 3: about big Sicilian energy, and like I said, I'm now 608 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 3: a woman in my mid forties and being in Sicily. 609 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 3: These women are strong mouthed women. They are confident. They 610 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 3: are just walking down the beach wearing their bikinis, smoking 611 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 3: their cigarettes and gossiping about Antonio over there. And so 612 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 3: I'm like, I just I love their confidence and their boldness. 613 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 3: And like, while I've always been adventurous, I do feel 614 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 3: like I've started to lose some of that confidence, in 615 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 3: that boldness, you know, just as I've gotten a little 616 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 3: bit older. And that reminded me that there's no reason 617 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 3: to lose any of it. And I feel more confident 618 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 3: and comfortable in my body now than I ever have, 619 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 3: and more inspired to just be a bold and brash 620 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 3: presence in the world. And that is something that I 621 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 3: think came from working on this project and being in 622 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 3: Sicily so many times. 623 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: Well, I think you've always been a strong mouthed woman, 624 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: and maybe now you just have a term for it. 625 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: So thank you for sharing all those strong words with 626 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: us today. We really appreciate your time. 627 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 3: Thank you, Joe, I love it. This was so much fun. Guys, 628 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 3: I could talk to you forever. Oh same, thank you. 629 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: You're gonna have to come back. 630 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 2: Joe Piazza is an author, journalist, and podcaster. You can 631 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 2: listen to our latest podcast, The Sicilian Inheritance, on the 632 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. 633 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, celebrity fitness trainer Jeanette 634 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: Jenkins is here to talk health and fitness for another 635 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: iteration of Wellness Wednesday. Listen and Follow the bright Side 636 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 637 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: your podcasts. 638 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 3: I'm Simone Boye. 639 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 2: You can find me at Simone Voice on Instagram and. 640 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: Tiktok'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. That's ro v Ay. 641 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 3: See you tomorrow, folks. 642 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 2: Keep looking on the bright side.