WEBVTT - Adriana Trigiani

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<v Speaker 1>This is me, Craig Ferguson. I'm inviting you to come

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<v Speaker 1>and see my brand new comedy hour well as Actually

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<v Speaker 1>it's about an hour and a half and I don't

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<v Speaker 1>have an opener because these guys cost money. But what

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<v Speaker 1>I'm saying is I'll be on stage for a while. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>come and see me live on the Pants on Fire

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<v Speaker 1>Tour in your region. Tickets are on sale now and

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be adding more as the tour continues throughout twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five and beyond. For a full list of dates,

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<v Speaker 1>go to the Craig Ferguson show dot com. See you

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<v Speaker 1>on the road, My DearS. My name is Craig Ferguson.

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<v Speaker 1>The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to

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<v Speaker 1>interesting people about what brings them happiness. Hello, my name

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<v Speaker 1>is Craig Ferguson. Welcome to the Tent and the Kids

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<v Speaker 1>Super Studios in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, New York. My guest today

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<v Speaker 1>on the Joy podcast is an old and dear friend

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<v Speaker 1>of mine. So we tend to ramble a bit, so

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<v Speaker 1>the heads up this one may go along and sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>you may think what the hell are you talking about it?

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<v Speaker 1>But then again you may think about any episode you

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<v Speaker 1>see or anything you see. Anyway, my friend today is

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<v Speaker 1>the great Italian writer and a personal friend of mine,

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<v Speaker 1>Adriani Trigiani, Idriana Trigiani, Adriani that was born than one

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<v Speaker 1>of them, and there can't be only one Adriana. As

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<v Speaker 1>you will see. Well, where are you from Italy?

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<v Speaker 2>And don't get excited. Farmers, workers, laborers, blue collar you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very proud of them. Well, but Italians.

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<v Speaker 3>You know this because you're going to Italy.

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<v Speaker 2>I know you do. That's why we work together. Because

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<v Speaker 2>you thought she might be okay, But you were so

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<v Speaker 2>rude to me when I first met you that I thought,

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<v Speaker 2>oh this guy.

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<v Speaker 4>No.

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<v Speaker 1>True, I wasn't rude to you. I was just checking

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<v Speaker 1>you out. You were like, wait, wait, can't be in

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<v Speaker 1>my movie?

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<v Speaker 2>No, I said, no, I said, mister Ferguson. I kept

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<v Speaker 2>follow you with Ferguson. I think that like you.

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<v Speaker 1>Be in my movie. I was like, I know, else,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't it?

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<v Speaker 2>God bless you. You're a superstar. Okay, So the Italian

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<v Speaker 2>thing is, we know where we're from, down to the village,

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<v Speaker 2>the street and the house. We'll tell you. We'll send

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<v Speaker 2>you the little yellow house, you know, it's in the

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<v Speaker 2>first part of the hill were and if you're not

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<v Speaker 2>going to do it, they'll serve your lunch. That's the

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<v Speaker 2>way we were all.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know anybody who did that thing? We're in

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<v Speaker 1>the Godfather that like you think the name of the

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<v Speaker 1>town that you're from, like.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, there's also a beautiful tradition there too that

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<v Speaker 2>very often the town names are Jewish families because there's

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<v Speaker 2>Italian Jews, right, that is beautiful. So the name of

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<v Speaker 2>the town, well, when they got when they went through

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<v Speaker 2>Ellis Island, if they couldn't spell it, they sort of

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<v Speaker 2>did that. But my family remained intact through Ellis Island

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<v Speaker 2>the spellings.

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<v Speaker 1>I had to change my name. Who else you're kidding?

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<v Speaker 1>My real name is Joey Goldstein. People don't know that

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<v Speaker 1>about me, but it's.

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<v Speaker 2>It's when the girl I'm trying to process.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I you know, I just it was a

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<v Speaker 1>thing when I was coming through on the boat, when

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<v Speaker 1>I was coming off the boat.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you chronicled your immigration in your book. That was

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<v Speaker 2>really great.

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<v Speaker 1>It's I'm very I'm pretty happy, but you're very yeah, super.

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of I think I irritate my family, who

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<v Speaker 1>are all born in America with my American ness, like

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<v Speaker 1>mangan and the kids, I'm like, let's go to NASCAR

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<v Speaker 1>and stuff like. That's not American. I went, sure is

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<v Speaker 1>come on?

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<v Speaker 2>Well?

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<v Speaker 1>Every fourth of July we watched Talladega Knights The Ballad

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<v Speaker 1>of Ricky Bo.

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<v Speaker 2>We love it too. At our house.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a great movie ever made.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. You know that, but you're not really a

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<v Speaker 2>family till you make an annual show of midnight run

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<v Speaker 2>with Robert de Niro, and that is one of the

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<v Speaker 2>great movie I watched it with my parents every year.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I haven't seen that movie in years.

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<v Speaker 2>It holds up, it does. Oh my gosh, is that

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<v Speaker 2>movie funny or what? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I remember it being funny. Charles Groden, Charles Groden, he's

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<v Speaker 1>very funny.

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<v Speaker 2>He really was very very funny. He's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>he's going to be with the Lord now he's no

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<v Speaker 2>longer here. Yeah, he was great. He was great.

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<v Speaker 1>And de Niro, of course he's he's still here.

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<v Speaker 2>And then he's very much still here. And then he

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<v Speaker 2>got a little baby.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you just have a little baby.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he has a little baby. I think she's a

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<v Speaker 2>year old.

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<v Speaker 1>With his hats off, the Jagger did that as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Mick Jagger had.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about Mick Jagger.

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<v Speaker 4>Talk about me, because because you talked me about time, I've.

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<v Speaker 1>Been around a lot in my life and I find

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<v Speaker 1>he's very interesting man.

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<v Speaker 2>He really is. He's I met him. I've never met him,

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<v Speaker 2>but because I have my I have friends that own

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<v Speaker 2>the Giants, Shila Maher her family, they invite me every

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<v Speaker 2>time he comes through.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait wait, wait, you have friends who owned the Giant.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you introduce me to those fancy friends. I get

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<v Speaker 1>to meet, like, you know, the guys from like Western

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<v Speaker 1>Pennsylvania and stuff. I'm like, hey, have you met No Carmine.

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<v Speaker 1>That's who I get to be.

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<v Speaker 2>I met Sheila Marra on a trip to Israel with

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<v Speaker 2>Kathy Lee and we have friends ever since. Yeah. There

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<v Speaker 2>she's dear friends with all that crew. Yeah yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But when the when the Stones come through, Springsteen, I was.

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<v Speaker 2>I was there the night Springsteen. I've seen him so

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<v Speaker 2>many times countless since the River tour, since I was

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<v Speaker 2>a kid.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a fan.

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<v Speaker 2>You're a big fan of Springsteen. I am too. But

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<v Speaker 2>I saw the show. I saw the show. He was

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<v Speaker 2>sick and I went having seen him so many times

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<v Speaker 2>I went, he's not right, he's not right. And then

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<v Speaker 2>of course he hit that place in the show where

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<v Speaker 2>it's Runway to Heaven, right where he just babe a

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<v Speaker 2>hit after hitting people.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the it's the key change in border run That's right,

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<v Speaker 1>that's what it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Dang, Absolutely, you're right, you're right. He is the master

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<v Speaker 2>of the key change.

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<v Speaker 1>You gotta have the key change change. So true, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you gotta have the key change. Do you play a

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<v Speaker 1>musical instrument?

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<v Speaker 2>I do not.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like you should. What about the heart?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so now you're you're digging into my childhood book. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>the town band director Dave Tipton I met with my

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<v Speaker 2>parents and said that kid has musical talent me and

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<v Speaker 2>I was like all excited, and I was imagining what

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<v Speaker 2>instruments I would play. I really wanted to play the

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<v Speaker 2>saxophone like my uncle, and my dad was very proficient

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<v Speaker 2>on the piano and natural piano player, I mean like pianist,

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<v Speaker 2>classically trained from the age of five, and he'd come

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<v Speaker 2>home every day from the factory. He'd sit at the piano.

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<v Speaker 2>That's how he decompressed for thirty minutes. It made us

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<v Speaker 2>happy because we knew where he was.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you think that people in light on that one

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<v Speaker 3>go ahead and learn instruments?

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<v Speaker 1>Why well no, I think do people and learns less

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<v Speaker 1>than the used to because they're on fucking Instagram.

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<v Speaker 2>No, you know, you're really trying to blame.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm against that. I want the Internet to be stoppd okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I in con it's too late with social media because

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<v Speaker 2>we don't have magazines and newspapers like we did so

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<v Speaker 2>now so now we have to tune into the Craig

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<v Speaker 2>Ferguson magazine whatever that is on the internet and find

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<v Speaker 2>you on uh YouTube or wherever wherever your face is sold. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>but it used to be.

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<v Speaker 1>You still write books. Yeah, I still get you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you still write big papery books that you read.

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<v Speaker 2>Still do, thank you. But that's an industry that seems

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<v Speaker 2>to benefit from this book talk has changed. Book sales.

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<v Speaker 2>The major publishers make over a billion a year each,

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<v Speaker 2>some of them three billion, four billion, So they're doing

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<v Speaker 2>very well. And here's the other thing you need to know.

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<v Speaker 2>You got to just kind of stand back from things

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes and go the way we're telling stories changes. Just

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<v Speaker 2>read a little interview with Clark Gable from nineteen fifty

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<v Speaker 2>and he was dead set against television because he was

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<v Speaker 2>a movie star, a movie actor, and he said, we

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<v Speaker 2>have to be loyal to the industry that brought us.

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<v Speaker 2>But look what that simple change in the late forties

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<v Speaker 2>and early fifties did to the industry. We began to

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<v Speaker 2>tell stories in different ways. Now, last year in the

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<v Speaker 2>United States of America, I've been doing this twenty five

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<v Speaker 2>years with books. Last year in the United States of America,

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<v Speaker 2>three point eight billion million books, not billion, sorry, everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>Million books were self published. So there's three point eight

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<v Speaker 2>million people in the United States. More people than buy

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<v Speaker 2>books are writing them. So the storytelling, the way we

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<v Speaker 2>tell stories has completely changed.

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<v Speaker 1>Well has it though? I mean the fact that if

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<v Speaker 1>you self publish a book. Do you think that if

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<v Speaker 1>three point eight million people are writing books and self publishing,

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<v Speaker 1>is that changed in the way we tell stories or

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<v Speaker 1>is just a lot of people doing it? This is

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<v Speaker 1>the way we used to do it with not very

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<v Speaker 1>good editors. Because you know, the publishing. I've read some

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<v Speaker 1>great self published books, and I've read some of the

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, you know, this could.

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<v Speaker 2>Have Well you're a big reader, so let's go buy

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<v Speaker 2>this the industry itself. I haven't noticed that they've added

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of editors. I haven't noticed that they've added

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of imprints to accommodate this. But you do

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<v Speaker 2>find out when you scratch the surface that traditional publishers

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<v Speaker 2>own the lion's share of self publishing business. Yes, so

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<v Speaker 2>you pay somebody to be published, and sometimes at these

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<v Speaker 2>self publishing houses they have editors for you, designers.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a big fan of editors. I think editors.

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<v Speaker 2>I need them. I mean, my editor, Maya ZeVA Needer,

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<v Speaker 2>I need editors. I also, like you, I do like

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<v Speaker 2>to work collaboratively with a group. I think it brings makes.

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<v Speaker 1>Sense because you're a TV writer though, right, I was

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<v Speaker 1>a playwright first.

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<v Speaker 2>But that playwright really that's really the family. When you

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<v Speaker 2>write for the theater, that's just that's the island of

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<v Speaker 2>misfit toys, that's you know, floating to profit. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like those poor souls. I mean, you know, all

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<v Speaker 2>of us. I consider myself one of those poor souls.

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<v Speaker 2>But the theater is the place where you make something

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<v Speaker 2>for no money. You tell a story for no money.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole reason I went into the theater was because

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<v Speaker 2>I needed a piece of paper and a pencil and

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<v Speaker 2>a space, and I did. When I began as a playwright,

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<v Speaker 2>I did plays on buses. I did plays everywhere. You

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<v Speaker 2>did a play on a bus, Yeah, I did a

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<v Speaker 2>play on a bus. It was I got me a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of trouble too, because I did it on a

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<v Speaker 2>shuttle bus between Notre Dame University of Notre Dame in

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<v Speaker 2>Saint Mary's College. They ran a shuttle bus.

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<v Speaker 1>That sounds like a very Catholic bus.

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<v Speaker 2>The Catholic's interesting. Yeah, that's an interesting way.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, go on some of those nittlely did you

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<v Speaker 1>know that I show them there.

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<v Speaker 2>You're obsessed with religion, you are, and I think that

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<v Speaker 2>that's beautiful on a certain level. You're a very spiritual person.

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<v Speaker 2>But I also think, you know, you're a very bitter person,

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<v Speaker 2>and that goes with me.

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<v Speaker 4>I tell you, you know, he's not at all, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>so delicious like.

0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.560
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, I think I've got a certain amount

0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:04.800
<v Speaker 1>of bitterness. But that's part of the recipe of being

0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:06.880
<v Speaker 1>a human being. I think if you don't have bitterness,

0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.480
<v Speaker 1>you're not fucking paying attention. There are some things you

0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.400
<v Speaker 1>should be better about. True, you know, like every time

0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.680
<v Speaker 1>I feel my knees when I stand up, I'm like, God,

0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:15.160
<v Speaker 1>damn it.

0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:17.199
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about aging.

0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Ah right, well, look very briefly though.

0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:22.120
<v Speaker 2>But let's go back to self publishing.

0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.520
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, no, I just want to take us on

0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.760
<v Speaker 1>the journey from where you start to where you end, right,

0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.760
<v Speaker 1>so very very quickly, but I would We won't make

0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.920
<v Speaker 1>a huge deal. But for those people unfortunate enough to

0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:40.520
<v Speaker 1>not know your story, let's do a concise, well edited

0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.640
<v Speaker 1>short story of you starting out as a fresh faced

0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Italian immigrant again off the boat Ellis Island. So where

0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.600
<v Speaker 1>you're from the appellations, right.

0:12:55.679 --> 0:13:00.280
<v Speaker 2>I grew up in Appalachia, right in southwest Virginia, bless

0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:04.640
<v Speaker 2>you started out in the northeastern United States with my

0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.520
<v Speaker 2>little family of seven, seven brothers and seven of us

0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:12.679
<v Speaker 2>and my parents and my dad got a low interest

0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.640
<v Speaker 2>government loan to start a blouse smell in Appalachia. That's

0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.160
<v Speaker 2>how we ended up there. People say, how did Italian

0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.280
<v Speaker 2>get down here? Well, that's how the m Italians got

0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:20.680
<v Speaker 2>down there.

0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.360
<v Speaker 1>So you started off a blows well, your father started

0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.440
<v Speaker 1>a blow smell manufacturing.

0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he made more and blouses, but he was trained

0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.439
<v Speaker 2>in his parents Blousemill in Martin's Creek, Pennsylvania.

0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.600
<v Speaker 1>All right, so how did you get that doesn't sound

0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.559
<v Speaker 1>like a quick short hope to show business from there,

0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:38.440
<v Speaker 1>and that's not like, well, you know.

0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.440
<v Speaker 2>We wanted to be I was just talking to our

0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.600
<v Speaker 2>intern lady about this. I wanted to be in sho.

0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.760
<v Speaker 2>I still it's my highest dream. See. I love show business.

0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:51.560
<v Speaker 2>I love it more. I love show business more than

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:57.080
<v Speaker 2>any person, man child. I'm in love with show business really,

0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:58.760
<v Speaker 2>and I'm still obsessed with it.

0:13:58.920 --> 0:13:59.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:04.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's something every aspect of it, you know, begging

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:05.480
<v Speaker 2>you to do a.

0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.720
<v Speaker 1>Movie, or you asked me nicely and I said sure, No,

0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.120
<v Speaker 1>you said I'll call you back in forty eight hours.

0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.839
<v Speaker 2>No person ever said that to me. I happen to

0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.560
<v Speaker 2>forty eight hours? What's he talking? I say that you

0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.560
<v Speaker 2>called back in forty eight hours because you were in

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Italy with your friends and you didn't want to be bothered.

0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, it's not wrong with that. I can't I

0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 1>can't understand why I said.

0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Forty eight You said forty eight hours.

0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:34.440
<v Speaker 1>I was forty eight hours.

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 2>So then I then I uh, I I said in

0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 2>forty eight hours? Will have an answer everybody relaxed, right,

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:42.320
<v Speaker 2>we'll see if he comes back.

0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.120
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, but this is not about that. This is

0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:44.960
<v Speaker 1>about you, you know.

0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.320
<v Speaker 2>But we have to throw in those things because that's

0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.680
<v Speaker 2>what I think of you, and I just start laughing. Okay,

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:54.080
<v Speaker 2>And you're Appalachian. Okay. It's the Scotts Irish area of

0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:57.360
<v Speaker 2>the United States. So when we went to Scotland and

0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.160
<v Speaker 2>we made a movie there, I was the only only

0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.800
<v Speaker 2>person on that crew from America who could understand the

0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.040
<v Speaker 2>local people because it sounded like it is to me.

0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.280
<v Speaker 1>It's very it's going to be right.

0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:12.960
<v Speaker 2>So when you go to Appalachia, you're not straining to

0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:15.480
<v Speaker 2>like understand what people are saying. And if I slip

0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.600
<v Speaker 2>into it, which I am known to do, you understand.

0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 2>So so there we are in Appalachia. We have no

0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:25.560
<v Speaker 2>connections to show business.

0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:27.920
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to And it's going to go on on

0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.560
<v Speaker 1>a bus between the Catholic that.

0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Was later please please, you're you're you're ringing the best

0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:34.840
<v Speaker 2>part of.

0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:36.840
<v Speaker 1>The story, okay, okay.

0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Because we were Italian. There was an outdoor drama there

0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.360
<v Speaker 2>called the Trailer Lonesome Pine Outdoor Drama. My brother Carlo

0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 2>played Little bubb Big bubb and old Bub. Okay, that's

0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.760
<v Speaker 2>how long he was in the drama. Yes, he's a

0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.960
<v Speaker 2>great actor. My brother and we were all involved in

0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.080
<v Speaker 2>the town in the theater, and I was on the

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:03.040
<v Speaker 2>crew because Barlow was a star. He played like the

0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.960
<v Speaker 2>boy and mame the fiddler around the roof wherever the

0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:07.360
<v Speaker 2>little kid was. And then they got a kid in

0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:08.440
<v Speaker 2>every musical corky.

0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:16.400
<v Speaker 4>Okay, So you're so wrong, and you're doing this during

0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 4>two things, during Tony Awards season and Pride Month. You

0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.160
<v Speaker 4>should be ashamed of yourself anyway, Get the characters correct.

0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:27.040
<v Speaker 2>Anyway. So when they needed to cast the children of

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Siam and the King and I, they looked at the

0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.200
<v Speaker 2>iteies that said they look different, put him in. So

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.080
<v Speaker 2>we were the kids that went okay.

0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 2>So that's when I really fell in love with show business.

0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.040
<v Speaker 2>And when I was in my first thing, then I

0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:46.040
<v Speaker 2>wasn't cute, so I was put in the chorus beautiful, yeah,

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.600
<v Speaker 2>beautiful because you love me or my brother. But I'm

0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.360
<v Speaker 2>just telling you back then, no, my glasses were this thick,

0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:56.600
<v Speaker 2>and they were like, oh yeah, can you see stage left?

0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Not really okay, And you know, in certain areas of history,

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.720
<v Speaker 2>people didn't wear eyeglasses, and there was one director that

0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.280
<v Speaker 2>came through It's very fancy, said everybody take your glasses off,

0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.679
<v Speaker 2>and the people were we were piling up backstage. It

0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:11.120
<v Speaker 2>was bad anyway.

0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, because you're doing a period piece and you can

0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:14.080
<v Speaker 1>wear glass.

0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you can't wear glasses so well, you certainly couldn't

0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:18.560
<v Speaker 2>wear Oscar day Loa rent a windshields that we were

0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:19.119
<v Speaker 2>all wearing.

0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:25.160
<v Speaker 1>Hello, this is Craig Ferguson and I want to let

0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.200
<v Speaker 1>you know I have a brand new stand up comedy

0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:31.120
<v Speaker 1>special out now on YouTube. It's called I'm So Happy,

0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.760
<v Speaker 1>and I would be so happy if you checked it out.

0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.280
<v Speaker 1>To watch the special, just go to my YouTube channel

0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.400
<v Speaker 1>at the Craig Ferguson Show and is this right there?

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.480
<v Speaker 1>Just click it and play it and it's free. I

0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.080
<v Speaker 1>can't look. I'm not going to come around your house

0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:46.440
<v Speaker 1>and show you how to do it. If you can't

0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:47.840
<v Speaker 1>do it, then you can't have it. But if you

0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:56.840
<v Speaker 1>can figure it out, it's yours. I have a theory

0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.800
<v Speaker 1>about movies made in the nineteen seventies. This thing that

0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.080
<v Speaker 1>I've ob recently, I've started watching movies made in the

0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.080
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventies and I feel.

0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.800
<v Speaker 2>We're talking hal Ashby right, all those guys.

0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.159
<v Speaker 1>Like movies that were made in the nineteen seventies. I

0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.399
<v Speaker 1>feel like all of the actors said, we're not getting

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.520
<v Speaker 1>anything but nineteen seventies haircuts here. It doesn't matter what

0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.080
<v Speaker 1>period we're playing. I don't care if we're playing Nazis

0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Roman guys. I don't care for outlaws. I don't care

0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:25.200
<v Speaker 1>for everybody had a nineteen seventies haircut. They wouldn't.

0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:26.960
<v Speaker 2>You're right, I just want it.

0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:27.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh fuck it no.

0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:29.800
<v Speaker 2>And they wore the glasses they wanted to wear. They

0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:34.760
<v Speaker 2>wore those Windshiel wiper eyeglasses. And I think you also,

0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:36.679
<v Speaker 2>when you think of the nineteen seventies in film, you

0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:37.760
<v Speaker 2>have to talk about teeth.

0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, I'm from a country where teeth is

0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:42.879
<v Speaker 1>not something that we talk about.

0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:48.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I lived there for six months. People have beautiful teeth.

0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.440
<v Speaker 1>What is what you knew you were mixing with the

0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:57.159
<v Speaker 1>smart teeth set, That's what it was. And also those teeth,

0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.560
<v Speaker 1>many of those teeth arrived later.

0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I see what you're saying.

0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.399
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, Look, look, look, looks we're back and you've got

0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.160
<v Speaker 1>your glasses on and you're in the play. But now

0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.919
<v Speaker 1>you love show business, do you say? So?

0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:11.440
<v Speaker 2>I wrote a play. I didn't write play for Catholics. First,

0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I wrote a play. I started to write for the

0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:20.320
<v Speaker 2>school assemblies and and my friends remember this that they

0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.639
<v Speaker 2>during the by centennial. I decided that I was to

0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:29.280
<v Speaker 2>play right then, and I wrote monologues for people to

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:35.359
<v Speaker 2>play historical figures in my school. Nice right, Yes, I

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:43.280
<v Speaker 2>did well. Harriet Tubman, Ben Franklin, Frederick Douglas.

0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.360
<v Speaker 1>So we're stinking with American American heroes.

0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:53.240
<v Speaker 2>And my friend Jean Williams, who was African American, came

0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.280
<v Speaker 2>from a long line of teachers and she she herself

0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.320
<v Speaker 2>became a teacher and I was just with her in

0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:02.360
<v Speaker 2>Big Stone app We get together and we just all started,

0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:05.560
<v Speaker 2>we just laugh and I said, remember what And we

0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:07.200
<v Speaker 2>put her in the Big Stone Gap movie because I

0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.440
<v Speaker 2>knew she was an actor and I needed somebody with

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.119
<v Speaker 2>Whoopy Goldberg in a scene. And those two it was

0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.640
<v Speaker 2>like Jean met Whoopee. At her level, I can't even

0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:22.120
<v Speaker 2>but we had a long history. Because I cast her

0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:25.679
<v Speaker 2>as Harriet Tubman for the school assembly and I was

0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:29.240
<v Speaker 2>short on costumes, so I went into the to the

0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:34.320
<v Speaker 2>home ac room and they had made bonnets shower caps,

0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.639
<v Speaker 2>but they were plastic. I took one of them, and

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.359
<v Speaker 2>I took an apron and I said, sit in a

0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:40.720
<v Speaker 2>rocking chair, do the monologue Harriet.

0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.639
<v Speaker 1>Tubman with a plastic shower cap on.

0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:47.480
<v Speaker 2>But when the thing opened, the student body went crazy.

0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:49.399
<v Speaker 2>They thought it was a comedy that she was in

0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:54.879
<v Speaker 2>that shower cap. And Jeane, she did actor that she was.

0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.280
<v Speaker 2>She just pushed through it and I'm waiting in the

0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.520
<v Speaker 2>wings for her. She came back and she took off

0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:01.399
<v Speaker 2>that shower Kevin. She threw it at me and she

0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:06.879
<v Speaker 2>goes never again to Johnny, never again. That is that

0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.480
<v Speaker 2>story amusing on your podcast? Or is that just too

0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.399
<v Speaker 2>private a story? But anyway, so she still remembers that

0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.960
<v Speaker 2>she did it, and I remember the whole anyhow. So

0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.280
<v Speaker 2>then when it came time, I said, I'm paying you back. Okay,

0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.360
<v Speaker 2>you're gonna be in the movie. You're getting paid whoa, whoa?

0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:21.280
<v Speaker 1>You jumped ahead here.

0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:23.359
<v Speaker 2>You want me to get to the Saint Mary's of

0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:23.600
<v Speaker 2>it all?

0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:25.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you're right now, you're writing a play for

0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:26.919
<v Speaker 1>cat So I might.

0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.679
<v Speaker 2>Well for the patriarchy, really, because Notre Dame is a

0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:39.320
<v Speaker 2>monolith and Saint Mary's is this really wonderful women's college,

0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:43.880
<v Speaker 2>which are not in fashion anymore, although it's thriving. It's

0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:46.120
<v Speaker 2>it's but it's next door to Notre Dame, but it's

0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.000
<v Speaker 2>got in my mind it's more beautiful, has better land,

0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:53.560
<v Speaker 2>prettier buildings. But I went to Saint Mary's and so

0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:57.240
<v Speaker 2>the first thing I would have to attack is the

0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.800
<v Speaker 2>the disparity of power. So we got on the bus

0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:03.960
<v Speaker 2>and I wrote scenes, sketches that the girls would do

0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.160
<v Speaker 2>as if they're having a real conversation, but they were

0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.399
<v Speaker 2>based on real conversations, like about who they were dating

0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:13.320
<v Speaker 2>and whatever. I'm changing names right, but they'd be holding

0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:14.800
<v Speaker 2>the thing on the shuttle bus.

0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:16.280
<v Speaker 1>Who's watching these plays?

0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:18.959
<v Speaker 2>Everybody that's riding a bus. It's a building audience.

0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:21.320
<v Speaker 1>Who's riding the bus, students.

0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Going back and forth for classes and at night for parties.

0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:28.560
<v Speaker 1>You should do this play on the subway, how would you?

0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:30.680
<v Speaker 2>You know what? That's a great idea, except you can't

0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:31.320
<v Speaker 2>hear down there.

0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:32.680
<v Speaker 1>You see it.

0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:37.600
<v Speaker 4>You got to project like the guy, like the guy

0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:39.360
<v Speaker 4>that comes through and says, give.

0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Me a twenty year.

0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:42.600
<v Speaker 2>I'll kill myself right in front of your eyes that guy.

0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, I am yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, that guy.

0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:49.680
<v Speaker 2>So I did that. Then I did a stage show

0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.960
<v Speaker 2>with it, with this, then we became we evolved into

0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:55.359
<v Speaker 2>a comedy troupe, and I just picked the girls. That

0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:59.400
<v Speaker 2>one looked like Pat bennettar Mimi Commons. She always wore

0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:01.960
<v Speaker 2>leopard and she was in the art department. People didn't

0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:04.200
<v Speaker 2>really talk to her too much. And then I found

0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:06.840
<v Speaker 2>out she was just painfully shy, right because she was

0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:09.480
<v Speaker 2>the one that really she'd barf before every perform to

0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:10.280
<v Speaker 2>be like, maybe.

0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:12.399
<v Speaker 1>I used to do that, you did, I used to

0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:12.760
<v Speaker 1>throw up.

0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:14.120
<v Speaker 2>That's a sign of greatness.

0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:17.800
<v Speaker 1>I never threw it never worked out for me, left, No,

0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:19.720
<v Speaker 1>it's I never before.

0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:22.280
<v Speaker 2>I got I couldn't do anything that would directly make

0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:27.400
<v Speaker 2>me thin. Nothing. I never threw up. What about heron

0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:30.439
<v Speaker 2>heron I didn't. I never You know, I didn't do drugs.

0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:34.440
<v Speaker 2>You know I didn't do them because fear, I I don't.

0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:38.679
<v Speaker 1>Please listen, whatever it takes to keep you off the needle.

0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:44.359
<v Speaker 1>Fear is fine. Fear is fine. I never did that's no, no, no.

0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:49.480
<v Speaker 2>And drinking to me, I'd rather eat the calories. I

0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:50.880
<v Speaker 2>I'd rather eat.

0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:53.560
<v Speaker 1>I've never yeah, you know, I don't think I've ever

0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:56.800
<v Speaker 1>seen you drink anything. Did you drink cocktails or something? Yeah, somethings.

0:23:56.800 --> 0:24:00.040
<v Speaker 2>Not really, not really, not really, my brother, No, I

0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:02.080
<v Speaker 2>don't because there's a lot of sugar in there, and

0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:04.800
<v Speaker 2>I was born pre diabetic. I'm Italian. You have to

0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:06.840
<v Speaker 2>really watch it. You've got to be careful with the sugar.

0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:12.320
<v Speaker 1>But here's the thing I feel like, Look, you don't.

0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Get off the place, keep going.

0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:14.960
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, I'm going to I'm just gonna taking us

0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:16.800
<v Speaker 1>because you said the Italian thing. I'm going to say

0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:19.400
<v Speaker 1>something about Italy now. And no, you know how much

0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:19.840
<v Speaker 1>I love it.

0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:20.840
<v Speaker 2>I know you love it.

0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:22.520
<v Speaker 1>It's like every time I go to Italy, I think,

0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:24.199
<v Speaker 1>why don't I love you? It's crazy?

0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:27.560
<v Speaker 2>Why don't we get side by side houses in the

0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:29.359
<v Speaker 2>Alps That's where I'm looking at.

0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:33.239
<v Speaker 1>Don't I don't have best seller money? I'm not like,

0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Then you have?

0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:37.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, we can buy a house there for three

0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:38.960
<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars. Why wouldn't we do it?

0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:41.680
<v Speaker 1>If we can buy it? I saw.

0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:47.520
<v Speaker 2>I saw your skills at the Castle in Scotland. You

0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:51.399
<v Speaker 2>can dig. That's Megan's I'm talking about who goes out

0:24:51.440 --> 0:24:53.520
<v Speaker 2>and digs the trenches and plants the treats. I need

0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:57.800
<v Speaker 2>you for that stonework that with your little wagon, by yourself,

0:24:58.200 --> 0:24:59.760
<v Speaker 2>with your bitterness, just.

0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Rage in despair, just digging away. Ryah. Fuck, let's fucking assholes,

0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:08.400
<v Speaker 1>no fucking in Gianna, fucking get me to do that,

0:25:08.480 --> 0:25:09.880
<v Speaker 1>stupid fucking fella.

0:25:10.200 --> 0:25:12.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but wouldn't this be fun? I mean, our family,

0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:15.800
<v Speaker 2>we love each other. We could go up there, but

0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:20.000
<v Speaker 2>you would be like this day too. I hate, I hate,

0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.640
<v Speaker 2>I hate. I've been peeping in on you. Hey, let's go.

0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.159
<v Speaker 1>All right anyway, so we're back. You know, you're in

0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:30.160
<v Speaker 1>this Catholic school.

0:25:30.200 --> 0:25:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So I mean, yeah, but it's but it's it's

0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:35.120
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen eighties. So let's not get crazy. It's it's

0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:38.240
<v Speaker 2>like everything changed. And I believe in the nineteen eighties.

0:25:38.280 --> 0:25:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I think there's one hundred years between nineteen seventy nine

0:25:41.560 --> 0:25:43.240
<v Speaker 2>and nineteen eighty nine. Do you agree with that?

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:46.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm not against it, but I need you to elaborate

0:25:46.760 --> 0:25:47.159
<v Speaker 1>a little bit.

0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:54.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's been these studies that are, you know, sociological studies,

0:25:56.000 --> 0:25:58.960
<v Speaker 2>and I would refer everyone to Kurt Anderson's book on

0:25:59.000 --> 0:26:01.679
<v Speaker 2>this topic. The title escapes me, but we'll put it

0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:07.520
<v Speaker 2>in the prompt. He wrote this book about it really

0:26:07.560 --> 0:26:10.440
<v Speaker 2>intrigued me, and it's gotten us to twenty twenty five

0:26:10.480 --> 0:26:15.720
<v Speaker 2>in a certain way. When we were kids, right, the

0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:19.639
<v Speaker 2>decade was defined by the cars, the haircuts, the people.

0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:24.399
<v Speaker 2>It changed through time. Okay, my mother might have been

0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:27.560
<v Speaker 2>wearing a pillbox hat in nineteen sixty, but by nineteen

0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:30.000
<v Speaker 2>seventy she was in a caftan with share bracelets up

0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:36.239
<v Speaker 2>her arm. Okay, okay, I'm follow this. Haircuts, there were

0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:38.960
<v Speaker 2>haircuts right in the fifties. There was a thing called

0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 2>the Italian cut. The Italians who were persona on Grada

0:26:43.040 --> 0:26:47.040
<v Speaker 2>in the United States after World War Two assumed a

0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:53.320
<v Speaker 2>position of artistic and cultural excellence. Cars haircuts, movie stars.

0:26:55.119 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Haircuts. So in the nineteen seventies, you know Stuart's haircut, Yeah, right,

0:27:01.800 --> 0:27:04.560
<v Speaker 1>we got a typical Roads Stuart haircut. Right was the

0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:08.240
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventies Roads Sture haircut. And my mother used to say, oh,

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:11.080
<v Speaker 1>that Rod stupid. He thinks he's fancy with his.

0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Bloo job haircut.

0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:15.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, Mom, that's no, I don't think they're called

0:27:15.200 --> 0:27:17.639
<v Speaker 1>that said, Oh, yes, they go to the salons and

0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:21.000
<v Speaker 1>they get those blood job haircuts. I'm like, I'm pretty sure,

0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:23.760
<v Speaker 1>let us know what they call them. But she was convinced.

0:27:23.760 --> 0:27:30.680
<v Speaker 2>That so funny because you know, there's everything's everything. That's

0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:34.119
<v Speaker 2>what I love about show business. Everything forms these circles.

0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:37.440
<v Speaker 2>And I just talked to Peter Wolfe on my podcast

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 2>about his memoir, and you should talk to him because

0:27:40.520 --> 0:27:45.600
<v Speaker 2>that man. Every page is like Thomas loaded loaded stories.

0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:48.480
<v Speaker 2>But he he the first time in history I saw

0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:50.639
<v Speaker 2>a negative thing about Rod Stewart, and I asked him.

0:27:50.640 --> 0:27:52.240
<v Speaker 2>I said, I don't know Rod Stewart and never met

0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:55.240
<v Speaker 2>Rod Stewart, but I find Rod Stewart a ray of light.

0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:58.119
<v Speaker 1>I think he's negativity about Rod Stewart.

0:27:58.240 --> 0:28:01.919
<v Speaker 2>He was a little snutty. He walked by the he

0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:04.359
<v Speaker 2>walked by the Jay Giles band and didn't give them

0:28:04.359 --> 0:28:07.440
<v Speaker 2>their proper snaps. Fuck though you don't think so, you.

0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:09.600
<v Speaker 1>Asked, I can't believe that to be true. Let me

0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:10.640
<v Speaker 1>tell the other I just.

0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:15.680
<v Speaker 4>Tell that his taste someone who wears Lepard, but.

0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:17.280
<v Speaker 2>He would he wears anything you want.

0:28:17.320 --> 0:28:18.879
<v Speaker 1>But I'm going to tell you this about roads. This

0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:22.240
<v Speaker 1>is a true story. I was in Heathrow airport, wait

0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:24.040
<v Speaker 1>for a plane. That's why I go there. I don't

0:28:24.080 --> 0:28:25.639
<v Speaker 1>go for any other reason. I was in there and

0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:27.960
<v Speaker 1>I was went for a plane, and Rood Stewart walks

0:28:28.000 --> 0:28:31.680
<v Speaker 1>through the airport was and he every time people were going,

0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:33.959
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, Rod Sture, and he would look at

0:28:34.000 --> 0:28:38.280
<v Speaker 1>people and say Rod Stewart, he say his name. I

0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:40.440
<v Speaker 1>was like, that's how I'm that's I love that. You

0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:42.360
<v Speaker 1>just go through, Craig, I go No, I go through,

0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:49.280
<v Speaker 1>and people are like that was that Hope Man haircut? Anyway, Look,

0:28:49.720 --> 0:28:51.720
<v Speaker 1>so we get where we're back. We have to get

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:55.000
<v Speaker 1>you back to the where how do you get right

0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 1>in Catholic plays to New York City because that.

0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Call they're not Catholic play there. I wrote a play

0:29:01.920 --> 0:29:05.520
<v Speaker 2>called Notes from the Nile, which I really I would

0:29:05.560 --> 0:29:09.560
<v Speaker 2>love to do again. I rewrote. I wrote the story

0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:11.560
<v Speaker 2>you would be greatest Julius Caesar, because I'm bring him

0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:13.920
<v Speaker 2>back from the dead, and there's a there's a there's

0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:20.440
<v Speaker 2>a three way conflict between Cleopatra her former lover Julius Caesar,

0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:25.360
<v Speaker 2>which you would play in Antony between exactly.

0:29:24.960 --> 0:29:28.120
<v Speaker 1>I know, but I would play Julius Caesar Scottish.

0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you could do whatever you want.

0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:31.840
<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody, by the.

0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:33.680
<v Speaker 2>Way, ladies and gentlemen, I'm just going to say this

0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:35.960
<v Speaker 2>directly to the audience. He says he's going to play

0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:38.920
<v Speaker 2>it Scottish. He would only play it Scottish because he

0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:42.040
<v Speaker 2>makes the decision and drives the bus as an actor. Okay,

0:29:42.640 --> 0:29:45.280
<v Speaker 2>but quite accidentally, So do whatever you want. I'm not

0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:46.360
<v Speaker 2>going to argue with you.

0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:48.120
<v Speaker 1>But also I think I think that would be good

0:29:48.320 --> 0:29:48.640
<v Speaker 1>to play.

0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Besides, everybody in America thinks you have a British accent.

0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 1>They don't know the difference Ancient Rome. People think that

0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:57.719
<v Speaker 1>because of the movie, because of the movies, like all

0:29:57.880 --> 0:30:03.240
<v Speaker 1>Ancient Room and Caesar quickly come here and how about them?

0:30:03.680 --> 0:30:06.960
<v Speaker 1>It's that time for something nice to eat?

0:30:07.040 --> 0:30:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh God love the Italian.

0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, Look, how do we get you from colleague to

0:30:11.080 --> 0:30:12.640
<v Speaker 1>New York City? That's what I want to do. We're

0:30:12.640 --> 0:30:13.640
<v Speaker 1>telling your story today.

0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay. So, so I knew I had to come here.

0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:20.280
<v Speaker 2>This was my highest dream, right.

0:30:20.840 --> 0:30:22.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, because you want to come here and you want

0:30:22.320 --> 0:30:23.920
<v Speaker 1>to ride, that's right.

0:30:23.920 --> 0:30:26.440
<v Speaker 2>And I have no place else to go. I can't

0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:29.480
<v Speaker 2>go home. My parents still have kids at home. I

0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:34.959
<v Speaker 2>would say that you know they were done, okay, But besides,

0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:38.000
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't go home. I needed I had this burning

0:30:38.200 --> 0:30:42.200
<v Speaker 2>like crazy, as you know, to get into show business.

0:30:42.200 --> 0:30:44.880
<v Speaker 2>So I came up north to my grandmother's and I

0:30:44.920 --> 0:30:48.600
<v Speaker 2>have my stuff in paper bags basically. And my grandmother

0:30:48.680 --> 0:30:51.760
<v Speaker 2>called this kind of nutty friend to hers and Garrison,

0:30:51.800 --> 0:30:53.760
<v Speaker 2>New York, and said, my granddaughter needs a place to

0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:55.800
<v Speaker 2>live in New York City. She said, tell every go

0:30:55.920 --> 0:31:00.200
<v Speaker 2>to the long Acre Hotel for Women. Cheap clean day

0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:02.280
<v Speaker 2>there whenever I go into New York. Now, meanwhile, this

0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:04.640
<v Speaker 2>lady lived in like a Frank Lloyd Wright house in Garrison.

0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:08.200
<v Speaker 2>She was very wealthy, but nobody knew it. Right, But

0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:10.440
<v Speaker 2>she's an old friend of my grandma's from the factory days.

0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Do they still have that wild tell.

0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:15.160
<v Speaker 2>The well, now that's the thing that's changed. The nineties

0:31:15.240 --> 0:31:18.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of everything collapsed. Like there was that I got

0:31:18.560 --> 0:31:20.320
<v Speaker 2>from the long Acre Hotel for Women?

0:31:20.520 --> 0:31:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Where was that was that in Manhette?

0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, on forty fifth between eighth and ninth.

0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:26.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's like it's agerous place for you to be.

0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:28.000
<v Speaker 1>What year are we talking about?

0:31:28.000 --> 0:31:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's not that bad, eighty five, not that bad,

0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:34.040
<v Speaker 2>not terrible, but anyway, it's not cleaned up. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:31:34.320 --> 0:31:38.560
<v Speaker 2>Well I immediately form a comedy troupe like I had

0:31:38.600 --> 0:31:41.640
<v Speaker 2>at Saint Mary's. Got New Girls, right, and one of

0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:44.840
<v Speaker 2>the girls in it was a crafty girl from Virginia

0:31:44.840 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 2>and South Carolina named Eleanor Jones, Right, Okay, who became

0:31:49.720 --> 0:31:52.080
<v Speaker 2>became who came into the group And I said, look,

0:31:52.800 --> 0:31:55.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm running out of dough and she said, I said,

0:31:55.960 --> 0:31:57.920
<v Speaker 2>I got I got a tip on a sublet and

0:31:57.960 --> 0:31:59.760
<v Speaker 2>she said, I wouldn't do that, but if you want.

0:32:00.040 --> 0:32:03.120
<v Speaker 2>But I took it within two weeks. Knock on the door.

0:32:03.240 --> 0:32:05.600
<v Speaker 2>The guy that I gave the money, not Eleanor. Eleanor

0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:07.560
<v Speaker 2>was was at the mill Bank House.

0:32:07.840 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:12.000
<v Speaker 2>The mill Bank House was a was a boarding house

0:32:12.000 --> 0:32:14.520
<v Speaker 2>for women in the arts, which had to be between

0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:16.920
<v Speaker 2>nineteen and twenty five. And then they kicked you out.

0:32:17.200 --> 0:32:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Although there was a woman in there named Lamya. She

0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:20.960
<v Speaker 2>was forty two if she was a day, and she

0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:24.040
<v Speaker 2>never left, so you had to let kich you get

0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:26.600
<v Speaker 2>out of there. Now, Lamia wore wigs. Nobody could figure

0:32:26.640 --> 0:32:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Lamia out. She was a beauty.

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:30.600
<v Speaker 1>But let's look at call open Lamia. Let's get back

0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:32.600
<v Speaker 1>to you though, let's look at calling open Lamiah. That's

0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:34.880
<v Speaker 1>how she gets you. That's how she gets you.

0:32:35.000 --> 0:32:36.560
<v Speaker 2>That's how I get you off trying to We've done

0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:40.600
<v Speaker 2>this enough, now, you know. Okay. So I get into

0:32:40.640 --> 0:32:43.960
<v Speaker 2>the Millbank House and when that happens, now I'm golden.

0:32:45.120 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 2>I lost all my money because I gave it to

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:51.160
<v Speaker 2>the sublet guy. And it was just it was a thief.

0:32:51.240 --> 0:32:53.680
<v Speaker 2>It was a guy who had sublet in between and

0:32:53.720 --> 0:32:55.280
<v Speaker 2>two dancers showed up in the middle of the night

0:32:55.280 --> 0:32:56.719
<v Speaker 2>and get out of our apartment. And I said, no,

0:32:56.760 --> 0:32:58.920
<v Speaker 2>I gave so and so the money, and he said, no,

0:32:59.120 --> 0:33:03.280
<v Speaker 2>that guy sublet from us. He took your money. So

0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:06.280
<v Speaker 2>I went, okay, well, listen, you lose money along the way,

0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:08.480
<v Speaker 2>you never lose it again in that fashion. I know that.

0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I know that just caused like fifty needles just went

0:33:10.920 --> 0:33:13.120
<v Speaker 2>into your neck when I said I lost money, but

0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:14.040
<v Speaker 2>I did, I.

0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:16.280
<v Speaker 1>Was a little bit along the way.

0:33:16.440 --> 0:33:17.120
<v Speaker 2>I know you haven't.

0:33:17.440 --> 0:33:17.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:33:17.840 --> 0:33:21.440
<v Speaker 2>So so Eleanor says, I'm going to get you in

0:33:21.480 --> 0:33:23.240
<v Speaker 2>here at the Milbank House. I'm going to get you in.

0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:25.400
<v Speaker 2>I said, please, please get me in. It was starting

0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:29.200
<v Speaker 2>to snow. No, no, no, I'm not the little match. But

0:33:29.280 --> 0:33:31.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm still at the long Acre Hotel and I'm okay.

0:33:32.640 --> 0:33:35.160
<v Speaker 2>I show up with my bags and the lady that

0:33:35.280 --> 0:33:39.560
<v Speaker 2>answers the door changed my life. Jimne Lawton. She's running

0:33:39.600 --> 0:33:43.560
<v Speaker 2>the house. And I said I need a room, and

0:33:43.640 --> 0:33:45.720
<v Speaker 2>once so she said, I have a guest room. Now,

0:33:45.760 --> 0:33:49.240
<v Speaker 2>I was temping on Wall Street, so I had, I was,

0:33:49.400 --> 0:33:51.680
<v Speaker 2>I was, you couldn't save money in New York. I don't,

0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:53.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't care, but I knew I could pull it off.

0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 2>So it was one hundred dollars a week, two meals

0:33:57.160 --> 0:34:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Monday through Friday, and breakfast on Saturday and Sunday. Hey

0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:05.080
<v Speaker 2>that's enough food, right, sure, get your own room? Yeah,

0:34:05.840 --> 0:34:09.840
<v Speaker 2>and shared baths. Did here like a dorm? Really nice, clean,

0:34:10.160 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 2>beautiful And she brought me in, So.

0:34:14.080 --> 0:34:16.600
<v Speaker 1>I and did she take you into show business? How

0:34:16.600 --> 0:34:17.040
<v Speaker 1>did you get?

0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:20.239
<v Speaker 2>That's where it gets good, okay? Because nobody would talk

0:34:20.280 --> 0:34:23.240
<v Speaker 2>to that lady, and she was very beautiful. Why wouldn't

0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:26.640
<v Speaker 2>they talk right here? Because she's the nobody likes the boss,

0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:28.600
<v Speaker 2>you know that nobody, And she was she was the

0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:31.000
<v Speaker 2>house mother, and she was always telling people to get

0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:32.600
<v Speaker 2>your feet off of things, and you can't have a

0:34:32.600 --> 0:34:35.480
<v Speaker 2>boy inside the house and the girls were propping the

0:34:35.480 --> 0:34:37.200
<v Speaker 2>door open with a shoe. They had a lady that

0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:38.960
<v Speaker 2>answered the door. I mean it was like a whole thing.

0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:45.120
<v Speaker 2>It was like it was like nineteen forty in nineteen

0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:48.200
<v Speaker 2>eighty five. That's how I will describe the bank hoss. Okay,

0:34:49.000 --> 0:34:52.000
<v Speaker 2>but the food was good, had wash her dryer, and

0:34:52.040 --> 0:34:53.280
<v Speaker 2>a phone on each floor.

0:34:54.320 --> 0:34:56.319
<v Speaker 1>Let's don't get stuck in the hotel here. How did

0:34:56.320 --> 0:34:58.480
<v Speaker 1>we get you in the show business because you're really

0:34:58.520 --> 0:35:01.040
<v Speaker 1>selling the hotel to me, like holding doors, opened the shoes,

0:35:01.080 --> 0:35:03.600
<v Speaker 1>it's a phone and every floor there's a meal on Sundays.

0:35:03.640 --> 0:35:06.920
<v Speaker 2>Because how can I describe how you get your dream

0:35:07.120 --> 0:35:09.359
<v Speaker 2>if I don't tell you where you stay and how

0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:11.480
<v Speaker 2>you kind of make it Happenez.

0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:13.120
<v Speaker 1>You're a novelist, that's why you're doing that. But this

0:35:13.160 --> 0:35:26.600
<v Speaker 1>is not a novelist. I'm editing you. So now how

0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:29.200
<v Speaker 1>do we get you? How do we get you into

0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:30.680
<v Speaker 1>the show business world?

0:35:31.000 --> 0:35:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, first thing I do is I I found a

0:35:35.000 --> 0:35:37.759
<v Speaker 2>comedy troupe, and I call my dad and he knows

0:35:37.800 --> 0:35:40.440
<v Speaker 2>a guy in the garment district, and I hold auditions

0:35:41.000 --> 0:35:43.479
<v Speaker 2>and those girls became the core group and I kept

0:35:43.480 --> 0:35:46.600
<v Speaker 2>that going for seven years with different girls. Where did

0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:52.080
<v Speaker 2>you perform upstairs at the Vesuvia was our first run.

0:35:51.360 --> 0:35:54.719
<v Speaker 2>We were okay, yes it is. It's kind of a

0:35:54.760 --> 0:35:56.440
<v Speaker 2>mob joint if you have to know the truth.

0:35:56.520 --> 0:36:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you know you got these girls down downstairs.

0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:04.360
<v Speaker 3>It's about really funny, really funny.

0:36:04.360 --> 0:36:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Did that? Then then we did the cabaret circuit, so

0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:12.840
<v Speaker 2>the Duplex, we did the comedy clubs we did like

0:36:12.880 --> 0:36:15.879
<v Speaker 2>we were openers, like Silver Friedman has had us open

0:36:15.960 --> 0:36:17.640
<v Speaker 2>for people because we did music too.

0:36:18.440 --> 0:36:23.080
<v Speaker 1>And then uh Corner Planermance.

0:36:24.080 --> 0:36:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, nobody wanted to see us coming with you know,

0:36:28.120 --> 0:36:30.719
<v Speaker 2>a giant subway token spray painted gold that we did

0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:32.440
<v Speaker 2>on the roof of the Millbank. Nobody cared about that

0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:33.399
<v Speaker 2>after a certain point.

0:36:33.480 --> 0:36:34.080
<v Speaker 1>I want to see that.

0:36:34.160 --> 0:36:38.279
<v Speaker 2>And you know, we also did Kelly's Village West, which

0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:41.240
<v Speaker 2>we weren't sure what it was. I I was the booker,

0:36:42.239 --> 0:36:44.160
<v Speaker 2>and my boss on Wall Street will tell you. I

0:36:44.200 --> 0:36:47.399
<v Speaker 2>took his his his rollover line as my business line

0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:49.640
<v Speaker 2>and I answered it like this three one, six nine,

0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:52.360
<v Speaker 2>and they go, is this Adria Andre Johnny are you

0:36:52.400 --> 0:36:54.200
<v Speaker 2>booking the act and the thing? And I go, yeah,

0:36:54.719 --> 0:36:58.400
<v Speaker 2>So one day he called the second line because I

0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:01.160
<v Speaker 2>was rated out and I went three one sixty nine

0:37:01.800 --> 0:37:04.120
<v Speaker 2>and he said, this is your boss. I need to

0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:09.560
<v Speaker 2>talk to you. And I went, oh, don't worry this guy.

0:37:09.719 --> 0:37:12.320
<v Speaker 2>He just liked the fact that I was funny. And

0:37:12.480 --> 0:37:13.520
<v Speaker 2>he's still my dear.

0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:16.200
<v Speaker 1>I like an eccentric guy in walls.

0:37:16.360 --> 0:37:18.680
<v Speaker 2>No, he's not eccentric at all. He's like young and

0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:21.640
<v Speaker 2>go get her and tops and pops. But he was.

0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:25.239
<v Speaker 2>He was Italian, and it just means he's like he's

0:37:25.280 --> 0:37:28.000
<v Speaker 2>like climbing the ladder at Merrill Lynch, Piers, Fenner and Smith.

0:37:28.000 --> 0:37:29.719
<v Speaker 2>And I don't think it. I don't even think it

0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:30.920
<v Speaker 2>even exists anymore.

0:37:31.000 --> 0:37:32.600
<v Speaker 1>See when people say to me, how are you feeling,

0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:34.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to say, tops and bops?

0:37:34.680 --> 0:37:35.520
<v Speaker 2>You never heard that.

0:37:37.760 --> 0:37:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Ask me how I feel.

0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:41.279
<v Speaker 2>You'll lage out of it. My grandmother used to say it,

0:37:41.320 --> 0:37:44.560
<v Speaker 2>Come on, come on, ask me how you feeling, Craig,

0:37:44.680 --> 0:37:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Tops and Bop. Do you think anybody's gonna like this podcast?

0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:51.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't give it. What are we doing?

0:37:52.040 --> 0:37:52.960
<v Speaker 1>I love it?

0:37:53.000 --> 0:37:55.160
<v Speaker 4>Okay, okay, that's why your success in show business.

0:37:55.160 --> 0:37:57.240
<v Speaker 2>You to have that. I don't care, Jean, Okay, go ahead,

0:37:57.400 --> 0:38:00.000
<v Speaker 2>So you get of you get Saint Mary's.

0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:02.279
<v Speaker 1>He goes, no, no, no, no, you're now you're in

0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:05.000
<v Speaker 1>chill business, and now I'm in You're in the comedy troops.

0:38:05.040 --> 0:38:07.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm in the comedy troop and everybody's conspiring to help

0:38:07.680 --> 0:38:08.640
<v Speaker 2>me make my dream come true.

0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Right, I know. But you're still writing. Now you're going

0:38:10.520 --> 0:38:13.400
<v Speaker 1>to write the When do you start writing the TV comedies?

0:38:13.400 --> 0:38:14.480
<v Speaker 1>What's the first TV comedies?

0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:18.279
<v Speaker 2>The first TV comedy was Okay, there's one thing before that,

0:38:18.360 --> 0:38:21.640
<v Speaker 2>which was off Broadway at the Manhattan Theater Club. Noticed

0:38:21.680 --> 0:38:24.040
<v Speaker 2>I've never worked there since. It was called Secrets of

0:38:24.040 --> 0:38:26.520
<v Speaker 2>the Lava Lamp for Camille Saviola, who was starring in

0:38:26.640 --> 0:38:29.200
<v Speaker 2>nine the Music Hall. She was a little tug boat

0:38:29.239 --> 0:38:30.360
<v Speaker 2>of a woman. She's in heaven.

0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:33.279
<v Speaker 1>Now I guess, right, And you say, I guess like,

0:38:33.320 --> 0:38:33.960
<v Speaker 1>maybe she's not.

0:38:34.120 --> 0:38:36.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't know. She believes she'd go there,

0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:40.560
<v Speaker 2>but anyway, that's solid what you believe. So she she

0:38:40.760 --> 0:38:44.960
<v Speaker 2>found me. I was doing staged readings all over the city, directors,

0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:48.200
<v Speaker 2>doing stage readings with really great actors. Okay, I mean

0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:51.719
<v Speaker 2>really good because and I said to myself, I said,

0:38:51.760 --> 0:38:54.440
<v Speaker 2>take your twenties to learn how to do this right,

0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:57.000
<v Speaker 2>work with other actors and see what you could do,

0:38:57.040 --> 0:39:00.680
<v Speaker 2>and direct them and see what you know. Anyway, So

0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:05.880
<v Speaker 2>so that led to she hired me Camille Saviola, and

0:39:05.920 --> 0:39:07.920
<v Speaker 2>I got trashed by Mail gus All in the New

0:39:08.000 --> 0:39:11.239
<v Speaker 2>York Times.

0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:13.000
<v Speaker 1>New York Times that I didn't really care.

0:39:13.040 --> 0:39:14.560
<v Speaker 2>But the people I was tempting for they were a

0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:17.080
<v Speaker 2>little embarrassed because they all came to the show and

0:39:17.120 --> 0:39:18.120
<v Speaker 2>they were like, how'd you get.

0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:20.839
<v Speaker 1>Your I don't like people I know coming to the show.

0:39:21.040 --> 0:39:22.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't like to see anybody either.

0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes I haven't seen you seck no, but recently yeah.

0:39:28.880 --> 0:39:33.759
<v Speaker 2>However, so this turned into for me was another trajectory

0:39:33.960 --> 0:39:37.440
<v Speaker 2>of show business. How did I get TV? Was my girlfriends.

0:39:37.480 --> 0:39:39.799
<v Speaker 2>Two of them were working in the mail room at

0:39:39.800 --> 0:39:44.200
<v Speaker 2>William Morris, Suzanne Gluck, who become a huge agent, and

0:39:44.360 --> 0:39:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Ruth Pomerance, who was at the time was a producer.

0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:49.800
<v Speaker 2>She was like a baby producer and she discovered Grisham

0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:53.400
<v Speaker 2>for I mean a baby producer, like she was a newbie.

0:39:53.440 --> 0:39:56.799
<v Speaker 2>She was young. She's so smart. Ruth is still one

0:39:56.800 --> 0:39:58.759
<v Speaker 2>of the most brilliant people I know. And they kind

0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:01.600
<v Speaker 2>of sat me down, they said, you need you're terrible.

0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:07.600
<v Speaker 2>You are blowing past your yes anyway, so you're bullshit. Anyway,

0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:09.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to tell the story. You get, you get

0:40:09.480 --> 0:40:12.520
<v Speaker 2>me off track, and then you're blaming me, you know.

0:40:13.320 --> 0:40:16.719
<v Speaker 2>So okay, So so Ruth and Suzanne said, hey, I

0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:19.640
<v Speaker 2>was really broke. Said I need to make money. They said,

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:21.520
<v Speaker 2>you need an agent. I said, what do they do?

0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:24.120
<v Speaker 2>They get your jobs? I said, really, this is what

0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:29.200
<v Speaker 2>a hay seed. I had the dream, but none of

0:40:29.200 --> 0:40:33.840
<v Speaker 2>the logic I didn't understand. I just thought they'd find

0:40:33.840 --> 0:40:37.760
<v Speaker 2>my work. You know, well, this is when it gets magical.

0:40:38.200 --> 0:40:40.600
<v Speaker 2>They said, you need to write TV. Now, keep in

0:40:40.640 --> 0:40:43.040
<v Speaker 2>mind I grew up in a place where you barely

0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:46.600
<v Speaker 2>got reception. The first show I remember, really remember loving

0:40:47.360 --> 0:40:51.080
<v Speaker 2>was the Waltons. Oh I love about about a poor

0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:55.719
<v Speaker 2>family and applegic. That was our family. Well, well that's

0:40:55.719 --> 0:40:57.880
<v Speaker 2>what I call this, except we were like the nineteen seventies.

0:40:58.680 --> 0:41:04.359
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, so so I knew, I knew I had

0:41:04.360 --> 0:41:09.480
<v Speaker 2>to figure out a way with uh with with my

0:41:09.719 --> 0:41:13.880
<v Speaker 2>past and my lineage which was non existent. Had to

0:41:13.920 --> 0:41:18.160
<v Speaker 2>break into the business whatever way I could. And so

0:41:18.239 --> 0:41:20.319
<v Speaker 2>when they they made me a list to agents, and

0:41:20.360 --> 0:41:22.920
<v Speaker 2>they said you're going to meet all these people. And

0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:25.120
<v Speaker 2>there was a list and I went to the first

0:41:25.120 --> 0:41:26.680
<v Speaker 2>guy and I liked him, and I said, I'm gonna

0:41:26.719 --> 0:41:28.160
<v Speaker 2>I called him up. I said, I'm gonna go with him,

0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:30.319
<v Speaker 2>but you need to meet everybody. I said, no, for what?

0:41:30.880 --> 0:41:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Right?

0:41:31.120 --> 0:41:33.120
<v Speaker 2>I like this guy, Wiley howshm at ic?

0:41:33.360 --> 0:41:34.000
<v Speaker 1>M right?

0:41:35.400 --> 0:41:38.520
<v Speaker 2>So Wiley, howshim? He has a great name.

0:41:38.640 --> 0:41:41.719
<v Speaker 1>Wiley is a great name. We should do an animated

0:41:41.800 --> 0:41:45.520
<v Speaker 1>version of your life, and Wiley should be played by Coyote.

0:41:45.640 --> 0:41:48.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, okay now it's a different kind of Wiley.

0:41:48.360 --> 0:41:52.080
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, So after he I signed, I looked at

0:41:52.120 --> 0:41:56.399
<v Speaker 2>him and said, I don't have any money. I'm broke, right,

0:41:56.800 --> 0:42:00.640
<v Speaker 2>I need next month's rent two weeks away. And he's, well, Adria,

0:42:00.680 --> 0:42:02.800
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't work like that, like we have to submit

0:42:02.880 --> 0:42:03.279
<v Speaker 2>you and everything.

0:42:03.360 --> 0:42:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it takes time.

0:42:04.160 --> 0:42:06.200
<v Speaker 2>Listen. I said, I signed with you because you can

0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:09.040
<v Speaker 2>make things happen. He said, okay, he said, I'm going

0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:12.960
<v Speaker 2>to give you tape and you're going to go watch

0:42:13.000 --> 0:42:15.080
<v Speaker 2>this show and you're going to write a specscript. He said,

0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:17.400
<v Speaker 2>take a few months. I said, I got two weeks

0:42:17.400 --> 0:42:19.600
<v Speaker 2>till the first month, I said, I can't give it

0:42:19.600 --> 0:42:21.960
<v Speaker 2>to me. I did not have a television set and

0:42:22.000 --> 0:42:23.680
<v Speaker 2>he didn't have a VCR. So I had to call

0:42:23.719 --> 0:42:26.879
<v Speaker 2>a friend who's super let me in to watch this thing.

0:42:27.080 --> 0:42:28.560
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't get the picture to come up, but I

0:42:28.560 --> 0:42:30.759
<v Speaker 2>could hear it. What was the show?

0:42:31.360 --> 0:42:31.560
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

0:42:31.640 --> 0:42:32.560
<v Speaker 1>Are you making me wait?

0:42:33.120 --> 0:42:36.320
<v Speaker 2>Making you wait? It's what you called dramatic? Din clearly

0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:37.200
<v Speaker 2>not a master.

0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:45.040
<v Speaker 1>As well, you know, all right, okay, all right, all right.

0:42:44.920 --> 0:42:49.000
<v Speaker 2>So anyway, so so I can't see it, but I

0:42:49.040 --> 0:42:51.239
<v Speaker 2>can hear it like it's like a radio play. And

0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:53.480
<v Speaker 2>I got all the characters and it was right. Feverishly

0:42:53.480 --> 0:42:55.160
<v Speaker 2>read and listen to it like three times. I wrote

0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:57.080
<v Speaker 2>everything down and I got it. Oh, it's a blue

0:42:57.080 --> 0:43:01.440
<v Speaker 2>collar family. The mother's bid or the father's kind of

0:43:01.480 --> 0:43:04.839
<v Speaker 2>put upon two and the kids are pretty hysterical. And

0:43:04.920 --> 0:43:07.080
<v Speaker 2>I thought one of the kids. That's the only thing

0:43:07.160 --> 0:43:10.359
<v Speaker 2>I got wrong. I got her name because the mother

0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:15.120
<v Speaker 2>kept going betty and it was Becky. She was saying

0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:19.200
<v Speaker 2>Becky big, but I heard Betty, Betty, Betty, Betty.

0:43:19.360 --> 0:43:19.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:22.719
<v Speaker 2>I left it in there. So I went home. In

0:43:22.719 --> 0:43:24.080
<v Speaker 2>two days I wrote this script.

0:43:24.320 --> 0:43:26.680
<v Speaker 1>I still didn't know what the show is, Roseanne.

0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:30.280
<v Speaker 2>It was the Roe pilot Roseanne. It was a Roseanne pilot,

0:43:30.400 --> 0:43:32.960
<v Speaker 2>which is how I got to Carcy Horner. So I'm

0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:35.239
<v Speaker 2>doing this and I thought, I know exactly what to

0:43:35.239 --> 0:43:38.839
<v Speaker 2>do with these people. She wants to she's fed up.

0:43:38.880 --> 0:43:40.520
<v Speaker 2>She sends them out to go tu being in a

0:43:40.560 --> 0:43:43.160
<v Speaker 2>blizzard the family because that's what you do in Midwest.

0:43:43.239 --> 0:43:47.080
<v Speaker 2>You too, and you get dragged by farm equipment on

0:43:47.120 --> 0:43:48.520
<v Speaker 2>a tube. It it's a lot of fun.

0:43:48.600 --> 0:43:49.080
<v Speaker 1>I've done it.

0:43:49.160 --> 0:43:52.800
<v Speaker 2>I've done it too. So I get everybody out of

0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:55.280
<v Speaker 2>the house dinged on the doorbell rings and it's a bride.

0:43:55.360 --> 0:43:57.279
<v Speaker 2>It's in the she's in the snow, and she goes,

0:43:57.320 --> 0:43:58.799
<v Speaker 2>I can't do it. They can't do it. They can't

0:43:58.800 --> 0:44:01.759
<v Speaker 2>get married. And the fact is Roseanne in my episode

0:44:02.680 --> 0:44:04.680
<v Speaker 2>was thinking of leaving because she couldn't take it anymore.

0:44:04.680 --> 0:44:07.840
<v Speaker 2>She's about to snap. But then she has to convince

0:44:07.840 --> 0:44:10.480
<v Speaker 2>the bride to go back to the church, and she

0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:14.240
<v Speaker 2>has to then convince herself to stay married and continue

0:44:14.280 --> 0:44:15.080
<v Speaker 2>to be a mother's leader.

0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:18.279
<v Speaker 1>That's a different episode. Did they make this appt me?

0:44:18.600 --> 0:44:22.640
<v Speaker 2>They never made it. But I have a lifelong friend

0:44:22.640 --> 0:44:24.880
<v Speaker 2>in Matt Williams, who created the show. He read it,

0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:27.719
<v Speaker 2>and he said, I can't steal you. They already got

0:44:27.800 --> 0:44:29.759
<v Speaker 2>you over in a different world. And a different world

0:44:29.840 --> 0:44:31.600
<v Speaker 2>was Debbie Allen, who, by the way, signed me in

0:44:31.640 --> 0:44:35.719
<v Speaker 2>the director's guilt, Susan fails Hill, Margie, who come.

0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:37.239
<v Speaker 1>You're working on a different world. How did you get

0:44:37.239 --> 0:44:37.600
<v Speaker 1>that job?

0:44:37.760 --> 0:44:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Because I got it before I got this one. So

0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:42.919
<v Speaker 2>they all read the same script in Hollywood, I'm telling you.

0:44:43.440 --> 0:44:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Within two weeks I had a pilot deal and I

0:44:47.400 --> 0:44:50.200
<v Speaker 2>was hired. They sent Susan files Hill, we want you

0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:52.719
<v Speaker 2>on this show, and I really wasn't sure what staffing was.

0:44:53.440 --> 0:44:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Could I do?

0:44:54.880 --> 0:44:56.440
<v Speaker 1>It's going to be replaced by AI though.

0:44:56.480 --> 0:45:00.200
<v Speaker 2>All that well for five minutes till it doesn't work,

0:45:00.239 --> 0:45:02.399
<v Speaker 2>and then they lead people. You watch what happens. You're

0:45:02.400 --> 0:45:05.600
<v Speaker 2>still going to need you anyway. So and they're still

0:45:05.600 --> 0:45:07.279
<v Speaker 2>going to need me because we have you.

0:45:09.040 --> 0:45:10.279
<v Speaker 1>I don't even I don't think they need me.

0:45:10.480 --> 0:45:11.279
<v Speaker 2>I think they need you.

0:45:11.920 --> 0:45:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Again.

0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:14.799
<v Speaker 2>Look at how hilarious you are, and you've maintained your

0:45:14.800 --> 0:45:15.680
<v Speaker 2>girlish figure, and.

0:45:15.719 --> 0:45:19.640
<v Speaker 3>Looks I walk, I walk everywhere because you walk six

0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:20.239
<v Speaker 3>and a half miles.

0:45:20.239 --> 0:45:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's like obsessive craziness, but it's very good for you.

0:45:23.719 --> 0:45:25.920
<v Speaker 2>My brother does it. He lives in Brooklyn, New York, Manhattan.

0:45:25.880 --> 0:45:29.400
<v Speaker 1>I walked from the Upper East Side to Williamsburg.

0:45:29.640 --> 0:45:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Unbelievable. And you came across the bridge.

0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, walked across the bridge.

0:45:33.600 --> 0:45:37.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. Okay, that's that's die hard. Okay. So

0:45:37.600 --> 0:45:38.200
<v Speaker 2>where were we?

0:45:39.440 --> 0:45:41.640
<v Speaker 1>You're a different world and you and.

0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Then my career takes off in television.

0:45:43.520 --> 0:45:44.839
<v Speaker 1>So who do you end up writing for?

0:45:45.600 --> 0:45:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Farah Fawcett and Ryan O'Neil and Alan's who I bell

0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:52.520
<v Speaker 2>on good Sports, Bill Persky on working it Out. I

0:45:52.600 --> 0:45:54.800
<v Speaker 2>became the show run of a show called City Kids,

0:45:55.360 --> 0:45:56.480
<v Speaker 2>which was phenomenal.

0:45:56.600 --> 0:45:58.920
<v Speaker 1>So know, you're really coin. I mean, you're making a

0:45:58.960 --> 0:45:59.479
<v Speaker 1>lot of money.

0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Now you care about some money?

0:46:01.280 --> 0:46:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely.

0:46:01.960 --> 0:46:04.880
<v Speaker 2>I made more money I made. You know what I

0:46:04.920 --> 0:46:08.000
<v Speaker 2>cared about because I'm working class. I wanted that. Seven

0:46:08.080 --> 0:46:11.040
<v Speaker 2>years in the w GA, so I got a pension someday. Yeah.

0:46:11.160 --> 0:46:14.359
<v Speaker 2>So I thought this could head south, this could all

0:46:14.600 --> 0:46:15.560
<v Speaker 2>go belly up.

0:46:15.680 --> 0:46:16.400
<v Speaker 1>I understand that.

0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:19.360
<v Speaker 2>And by the way, and you also, my belief is

0:46:19.400 --> 0:46:21.520
<v Speaker 2>every seven to ten years, you got to blow everything

0:46:21.600 --> 0:46:22.759
<v Speaker 2>up and reform.

0:46:22.800 --> 0:46:24.239
<v Speaker 1>Fire everybody. Yeah that's what I think.

0:46:24.320 --> 0:46:28.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, fire, but also fire yourself and start over and say,

0:46:28.280 --> 0:46:30.479
<v Speaker 2>what do I really want to be doing? Because because

0:46:30.520 --> 0:46:32.520
<v Speaker 2>what show business will do will take you into that.

0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:40.040
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's like well on a tractor and making hay.

0:46:40.160 --> 0:46:42.600
<v Speaker 2>They'll keep you there if you don't go. I don't

0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:44.279
<v Speaker 2>want to do that anymore. I don't need to move.

0:46:44.520 --> 0:46:46.960
<v Speaker 2>That's how I became a novel to tell you I

0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:49.239
<v Speaker 2>don't want you anymore. Yeah, unless you Carson.

0:46:49.280 --> 0:46:52.400
<v Speaker 1>The audiences do that thing where you know you have

0:46:52.480 --> 0:46:54.360
<v Speaker 1>to when you change it, they go, no, don't change it.

0:46:54.400 --> 0:46:55.759
<v Speaker 1>We like it. That's why you go. Yeah, but I

0:46:56.239 --> 0:46:59.839
<v Speaker 1>can't keep doing like I'm thinking specifically about Late Night

0:46:59.880 --> 0:47:02.040
<v Speaker 1>for me, when I was like now, I got to

0:47:02.040 --> 0:47:03.480
<v Speaker 1>stop and trying to persuade.

0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:05.560
<v Speaker 2>But you know what I love about your Late Night stories.

0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:08.759
<v Speaker 2>There's a moral center to it. You you began to

0:47:08.760 --> 0:47:13.640
<v Speaker 2>not be able to cope with the fact that you

0:47:13.719 --> 0:47:17.839
<v Speaker 2>were employing so many people. It became an albatross to you.

0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:20.440
<v Speaker 1>I hated it. I'm not this I love to do

0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:23.240
<v Speaker 1>in the show, but the business of being in business,

0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:25.960
<v Speaker 1>I've oh, I hate that. I mean, you stick me

0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:27.959
<v Speaker 1>in a tent in Brooklyn. I'm fine, but you put

0:47:28.000 --> 0:47:29.360
<v Speaker 1>me in a uh.

0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:31.279
<v Speaker 2>I know you can't be. That's what makes your life

0:47:31.280 --> 0:47:33.439
<v Speaker 2>so interesting is that you you know how to blow

0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:38.400
<v Speaker 2>it up without you know, having with drugs and alcohol,

0:47:38.600 --> 0:47:41.880
<v Speaker 2>without drinking, without drug taking. I don't even know if

0:47:41.920 --> 0:47:45.480
<v Speaker 2>you take advillain anymore. I don't know what take with them.

0:47:45.680 --> 0:47:47.320
<v Speaker 1>What can I do? You got to take an adage.

0:47:47.800 --> 0:47:50.960
<v Speaker 2>I've become obsessed with recovery.

0:47:52.200 --> 0:47:53.440
<v Speaker 1>You mean twelve step recovery.

0:47:53.760 --> 0:47:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I'm very interested.

0:47:55.239 --> 0:47:56.719
<v Speaker 1>I can help you there. What do you want to know?

0:47:56.800 --> 0:48:03.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, I I just find it. I'm talking to people lately,

0:48:03.160 --> 0:48:06.280
<v Speaker 2>like Molly Jong Fast and stuff, and I reading her book,

0:48:06.320 --> 0:48:10.200
<v Speaker 2>and you know, she she went into recovery and her

0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:12.680
<v Speaker 2>mom said, you don't have a problem. She kept saying

0:48:12.719 --> 0:48:14.879
<v Speaker 2>to her daughter, you don't have a problem. And Molly said,

0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:16.799
<v Speaker 2>but my mom had a problem, and now she's dealing

0:48:16.800 --> 0:48:19.400
<v Speaker 2>with her mom that has dementia. But I'm telling you

0:48:19.440 --> 0:48:23.400
<v Speaker 2>this because I find it fascinating to be able to

0:48:23.400 --> 0:48:26.160
<v Speaker 2>stick with it. You know, you when we were first friends,

0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:28.279
<v Speaker 2>you ate at my house and there's alcohol in my house,

0:48:28.280 --> 0:48:31.239
<v Speaker 2>which made me extremely nervous. And then I started to like,

0:48:31.239 --> 0:48:34.719
<v Speaker 2>look at the balsamic vinegar. Is that bad? I didn't know, like.

0:48:34.840 --> 0:48:37.640
<v Speaker 1>What that's because you're a nice person in your kind then,

0:48:37.719 --> 0:48:38.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, and you.

0:48:38.320 --> 0:48:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Were not really and that's when you were a vegetarian.

0:48:40.880 --> 0:48:43.840
<v Speaker 2>Now that means that made you mad. That made me

0:48:43.920 --> 0:48:47.480
<v Speaker 2>mad because you have to just invent things with vegetables.

0:48:47.480 --> 0:48:52.160
<v Speaker 1>That also, you're you're an Italian mom.

0:48:50.719 --> 0:48:53.640
<v Speaker 3>It's like the fact that you didn't need a pork

0:48:53.719 --> 0:48:56.080
<v Speaker 3>chopp or eat meat. I was like, yeah, well, I'm

0:48:56.120 --> 0:48:58.239
<v Speaker 3>over all that, you know that, right, that's all I know.

0:48:58.280 --> 0:48:58.520
<v Speaker 1>You do?

0:48:58.800 --> 0:49:01.279
<v Speaker 3>You eat meat now, I'm relieved your back on much.

0:49:01.360 --> 0:49:03.040
<v Speaker 3>But I'll eat it, you know, you know, but I.

0:49:03.000 --> 0:49:05.799
<v Speaker 2>Try to make things that tasted like meat, you know,

0:49:06.080 --> 0:49:08.439
<v Speaker 2>like artichokes. We're getting side tricked here, Okay, we're side

0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:10.280
<v Speaker 2>trick all right. Now we're going to side trick.

0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:13.759
<v Speaker 1>Which is yeah, yeah, now you're writing for TV.

0:49:13.840 --> 0:49:13.920
<v Speaker 4>Now.

0:49:13.920 --> 0:49:16.920
<v Speaker 1>I want to get you onto the novels because I

0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:19.800
<v Speaker 1>know that it seems to be a fairly easy transition

0:49:19.840 --> 0:49:22.879
<v Speaker 1>from writing for TV to making films and stuff like that.

0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:24.520
<v Speaker 1>That's all part of the same thing. But you start

0:49:24.520 --> 0:49:27.480
<v Speaker 1>writing novels, yes, and you start writing novels, which I

0:49:27.480 --> 0:49:30.319
<v Speaker 1>think is interesting because I've only written one and I

0:49:30.400 --> 0:49:34.520
<v Speaker 1>wrote one because that was good. I was infuriated with that.

0:49:34.719 --> 0:49:38.760
<v Speaker 1>It was such rage and despair about the film business.

0:49:39.040 --> 0:49:41.640
<v Speaker 1>Though I can't work with anyone else, I can't work

0:49:41.680 --> 0:49:44.440
<v Speaker 1>with anyone. I can't work with one more fucking asshole.

0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:45.719
<v Speaker 1>Say to me, you know what would be great if

0:49:45.719 --> 0:49:48.799
<v Speaker 1>if he had a girlfriend, and like I saw a

0:49:48.840 --> 0:49:53.359
<v Speaker 1>script that I put together, get chipped away, chipped away.

0:49:53.760 --> 0:49:58.640
<v Speaker 1>It drives me fucking So that's why I wrote a novel.

0:49:58.680 --> 0:50:00.719
<v Speaker 1>And I want to know why you because you still

0:50:00.719 --> 0:50:01.360
<v Speaker 1>write novels.

0:50:01.440 --> 0:50:04.960
<v Speaker 2>That's right, and I probably will die writing them. I

0:50:05.000 --> 0:50:07.279
<v Speaker 2>do want to direct and write more films than I'm

0:50:07.280 --> 0:50:10.280
<v Speaker 2>working on that, But why would I be a novelist

0:50:10.360 --> 0:50:13.480
<v Speaker 2>till the day I die? Now you're getting to the pith,

0:50:14.000 --> 0:50:18.840
<v Speaker 2>which is what makes this podcast so fabulous. Working for

0:50:18.920 --> 0:50:22.080
<v Speaker 2>other people, I'm writing their stories. When you're in a

0:50:22.200 --> 0:50:24.800
<v Speaker 2>comedy room, you're writing, You're delivering characters that have already

0:50:24.800 --> 0:50:27.440
<v Speaker 2>been created by somebody else. If you're lucky enough to

0:50:27.440 --> 0:50:29.360
<v Speaker 2>get a pilot, you're creating it. But to get that

0:50:29.480 --> 0:50:31.840
<v Speaker 2>on the air, I think I can safely tell you

0:50:31.920 --> 0:50:33.680
<v Speaker 2>I wrote seventeen of them, and I didn't get them

0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:35.400
<v Speaker 2>on the air. And I came to squeaky close with

0:50:35.440 --> 0:50:38.920
<v Speaker 2>two of them, but because I'm from Appalachi, I just

0:50:38.960 --> 0:50:40.880
<v Speaker 2>banked the money and just went and moved on to

0:50:40.920 --> 0:50:44.719
<v Speaker 2>the next pilot. Okay, but what turned me to novels

0:50:45.640 --> 0:50:52.440
<v Speaker 2>was that I had never written the people I wanted

0:50:52.440 --> 0:50:56.760
<v Speaker 2>to write all that time in television. I would pretend

0:50:56.800 --> 0:51:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Bill Cosby was my father. I would pretend and that

0:51:01.000 --> 0:51:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Farah Fawcett was a woman I tempt with at Merrill Lynch.

0:51:04.680 --> 0:51:08.560
<v Speaker 2>I would pretend that Ryan O'Neil was a lawyer I

0:51:08.600 --> 0:51:10.799
<v Speaker 2>tempt for who was bombastic and irish. I mean, I

0:51:10.800 --> 0:51:12.920
<v Speaker 2>did the whole thing, but I'd have to like place

0:51:13.000 --> 0:51:19.160
<v Speaker 2>these people in a context of truth for me, so

0:51:20.440 --> 0:51:24.840
<v Speaker 2>and I would sneak things in of course that seemed

0:51:24.840 --> 0:51:27.359
<v Speaker 2>to be about my heritage or seemed, but it never

0:51:27.400 --> 0:51:30.960
<v Speaker 2>really added up. Now I was free, I could create

0:51:31.000 --> 0:51:33.920
<v Speaker 2>worlds now. Incumbent upon that, I would have to sell it.

0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:39.960
<v Speaker 2>And that was not the hard part, but the obstacle

0:51:39.960 --> 0:51:43.799
<v Speaker 2>in my own mental head to get over. So if

0:51:43.840 --> 0:51:47.680
<v Speaker 2>anybody's listening to this, who can see it on the

0:51:47.719 --> 0:51:50.000
<v Speaker 2>other side of that hurdle but can't get over it,

0:51:51.440 --> 0:51:54.480
<v Speaker 2>you simply have to remove it. And say no, I'm

0:51:54.480 --> 0:51:57.879
<v Speaker 2>already there. I'm going to write that this way, and

0:51:58.040 --> 0:51:59.160
<v Speaker 2>that worked.

0:52:00.239 --> 0:52:04.759
<v Speaker 1>I think that's right. I think that the and I

0:52:04.760 --> 0:52:06.400
<v Speaker 1>think it's one of the reasons why you and I

0:52:06.520 --> 0:52:10.359
<v Speaker 1>are such good pals is because at the core of it,

0:52:10.760 --> 0:52:16.319
<v Speaker 1>at the core of everything is is fuck them if you.

0:52:16.360 --> 0:52:16.879
<v Speaker 2>Don't like it.

0:52:17.640 --> 0:52:19.279
<v Speaker 1>You know, this is why I gotta do it. I

0:52:19.360 --> 0:52:22.400
<v Speaker 1>gotta do this. I cannot do it. And this is

0:52:22.440 --> 0:52:25.759
<v Speaker 1>why I don't understand show business as it is now,

0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:27.320
<v Speaker 1>because everybody is in show business.

0:52:27.320 --> 0:52:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Here's your problem. Now we don't have it'll change. But

0:52:34.160 --> 0:52:37.040
<v Speaker 2>when a hedge fund owns you and they've never made

0:52:37.040 --> 0:52:41.440
<v Speaker 2>a show, that's a problem. When we would go to

0:52:41.480 --> 0:52:46.640
<v Speaker 2>the networks five, ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, when you

0:52:46.680 --> 0:52:49.960
<v Speaker 2>walked in there, those people were trained by somebody to

0:52:50.040 --> 0:52:52.560
<v Speaker 2>be able to do something, and of course then we

0:52:52.640 --> 0:52:54.880
<v Speaker 2>leave the room and make fun of them. You know,

0:52:55.080 --> 0:52:57.959
<v Speaker 2>when a very prominent producers put a dog in the show,

0:52:58.000 --> 0:53:00.680
<v Speaker 2>and I thought that what does that solve? Move or

0:53:00.719 --> 0:53:02.840
<v Speaker 2>do okay whatever, put the dog in the show. What

0:53:02.840 --> 0:53:07.720
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna do that when you don't have that system

0:53:07.760 --> 0:53:10.319
<v Speaker 2>that trains them, which was the studio system, you know,

0:53:10.760 --> 0:53:13.800
<v Speaker 2>studio system is very interesting. There must be something rotten

0:53:13.840 --> 0:53:16.960
<v Speaker 2>and corrupting there somewhere because it keeps getting bashed.

0:53:17.000 --> 0:53:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Surely no, but it keeps.

0:53:18.480 --> 0:53:22.239
<v Speaker 2>Getting bashed and reinvented. Have you in our lifetime we're

0:53:22.239 --> 0:53:24.560
<v Speaker 2>going through what Clark Gable went through. What is this?

0:53:25.200 --> 0:53:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Well? No, see, this is what I think it is.

0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:30.040
<v Speaker 1>I think everybody's in show business, and they're kind of

0:53:30.080 --> 0:53:32.520
<v Speaker 1>right in the sense that, you know, everybody has their

0:53:32.560 --> 0:53:34.959
<v Speaker 1>own little channel, everybody has their own thing. I'm gonna

0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:37.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, everyone can tell their truth, everyone gets their

0:53:37.800 --> 0:53:41.520
<v Speaker 1>theirs thing to say, everyone gets their moment to which

0:53:41.760 --> 0:53:44.120
<v Speaker 1>in one hand is good. But that's the fucking show business.

0:53:44.120 --> 0:53:47.000
<v Speaker 1>That's just people talking like this. This is just people talking.

0:53:47.000 --> 0:53:48.799
<v Speaker 1>This is not doing what we do. This is just

0:53:48.880 --> 0:53:53.680
<v Speaker 1>us talking. And I think this idea that the every

0:53:53.719 --> 0:54:00.439
<v Speaker 1>conversation is a performance. You know, I don't I don't

0:54:00.480 --> 0:54:02.440
<v Speaker 1>subscribe to it, which is paradoxical because this is what

0:54:02.440 --> 0:54:06.960
<v Speaker 1>we're doing right now. But the idea of everyone is

0:54:07.120 --> 0:54:09.560
<v Speaker 1>if everyone is in show business, there is no show business.

0:54:09.680 --> 0:54:12.439
<v Speaker 1>If everyone's telling us to it, if everyone's special, then

0:54:12.560 --> 0:54:13.360
<v Speaker 1>no one's special.

0:54:14.040 --> 0:54:18.000
<v Speaker 2>That's your philosophical brain. That's so interesting to me. But

0:54:18.120 --> 0:54:21.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't think like that. If everybody's in show business,

0:54:21.480 --> 0:54:24.920
<v Speaker 2>then there's no show business. I think part of the

0:54:25.000 --> 0:54:29.120
<v Speaker 2>problem on the planet is that people are not in

0:54:29.160 --> 0:54:33.040
<v Speaker 2>touch with their creative selves. Their creativity. That doesn't mean

0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:36.960
<v Speaker 2>show business. Okay, it doesn't mean a creative acc.

0:54:36.880 --> 0:54:38.719
<v Speaker 1>You're sounding like a nicer person than me, that you're

0:54:38.760 --> 0:54:39.800
<v Speaker 1>making me feel uncomfortable.

0:54:39.800 --> 0:54:42.760
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm no way a nicer person.

0:54:43.239 --> 0:54:44.040
<v Speaker 1>You certainly are.

0:54:44.880 --> 0:54:49.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to dispute that. Okay, yeah, you're a You're

0:54:49.600 --> 0:54:56.520
<v Speaker 2>a mean softy. Here's my girl to say a piece

0:54:56.520 --> 0:54:58.400
<v Speaker 2>of bread. You're like a piece of bread, you know.

0:55:00.480 --> 0:55:05.239
<v Speaker 2>But think about you, is you really are who you

0:55:05.520 --> 0:55:08.920
<v Speaker 2>present yourself as a lot of people aren't. But you

0:55:08.960 --> 0:55:11.680
<v Speaker 2>have not wavered or changed once since the moment I

0:55:11.719 --> 0:55:14.759
<v Speaker 2>met you. You're the same guy, which I find fascinating,

0:55:14.760 --> 0:55:17.960
<v Speaker 2>which must unnerve your wife. But she has my phone numbers.

0:55:20.280 --> 0:55:25.160
<v Speaker 2>She's tough. But the point I'm making is that things

0:55:25.239 --> 0:55:27.799
<v Speaker 2>in life change and you must move with it like

0:55:27.840 --> 0:55:31.960
<v Speaker 2>a river. You know. Part of our role as parents

0:55:32.040 --> 0:55:34.319
<v Speaker 2>is to give it up, get out of the way,

0:55:35.000 --> 0:55:36.879
<v Speaker 2>and we have to do that in our careers too.

0:55:36.920 --> 0:55:39.680
<v Speaker 2>We have to go, oh, this is what's happening now.

0:55:39.719 --> 0:55:42.160
<v Speaker 2>I have to go pitch to that guy. Who is he? Well,

0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:44.320
<v Speaker 2>he's a very rich man from the Silicon Valley and

0:55:44.360 --> 0:55:47.160
<v Speaker 2>he owns the studio now and you go, but does

0:55:47.200 --> 0:55:50.799
<v Speaker 2>he know? And those people are interesting because they have

0:55:50.840 --> 0:55:53.239
<v Speaker 2>one or two movies that are their favorite movies and

0:55:53.320 --> 0:55:55.680
<v Speaker 2>they want to recreate the joy they had when they

0:55:55.680 --> 0:55:59.920
<v Speaker 2>watch that movie. This is really interesting. It's an interesting

0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:06.920
<v Speaker 2>time to be doing this. When I'm talking about people's creativity.

0:56:07.000 --> 0:56:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I wish that there was a mission, that some country

0:56:10.480 --> 0:56:12.480
<v Speaker 2>had a mission for everybody to write their life story

0:56:12.480 --> 0:56:14.960
<v Speaker 2>before they die, even the people in prisons. Everybody, everybody

0:56:15.600 --> 0:56:17.239
<v Speaker 2>has to give me a couple of pages. Who are you?

0:56:17.520 --> 0:56:19.239
<v Speaker 2>What did you do here? And what was your goal?

0:56:19.239 --> 0:56:22.360
<v Speaker 2>And what didn't happen? When happened? Now? Isn't that interesting

0:56:22.680 --> 0:56:27.360
<v Speaker 2>if you could tap that creativity? Obviously it's being tapped.

0:56:27.400 --> 0:56:29.799
<v Speaker 2>Three point eight million books were self published last year.

0:56:30.880 --> 0:56:31.760
<v Speaker 2>It's being tapped.

0:56:32.120 --> 0:56:33.320
<v Speaker 1>Who's reading these books?

0:56:33.880 --> 0:56:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, they tried. This is where you and I step

0:56:38.280 --> 0:56:42.839
<v Speaker 2>in because we're salesmen. We could sell if we were

0:56:43.200 --> 0:56:46.360
<v Speaker 2>if everything was gone tomorrow, we would sit down and

0:56:46.440 --> 0:56:50.560
<v Speaker 2>go okay, I could go door to door and sell seeds.

0:56:51.120 --> 0:56:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I could do I did it in third grade. I

0:56:52.520 --> 0:56:54.680
<v Speaker 2>was number one. I could do it again. I could

0:56:54.719 --> 0:56:57.880
<v Speaker 2>sell seats, like to plant gardens, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:56:58.000 --> 0:57:00.400
<v Speaker 2>or whatever. It was Rex Cleaner. I old in the

0:57:00.400 --> 0:57:02.400
<v Speaker 2>seventh grade and I wanted to win a bicycle.

0:57:02.560 --> 0:57:04.480
<v Speaker 1>And it's a name that I would like to have,

0:57:04.600 --> 0:57:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Rex Cleaner, Rex Cleaner and fight from now on. From

0:57:08.160 --> 0:57:09.880
<v Speaker 1>now on, I want you guys to call me Rex

0:57:09.920 --> 0:57:12.440
<v Speaker 1>Cleaner and ask me how. I asked me how how

0:57:12.440 --> 0:57:18.320
<v Speaker 1>are you doing? Rex? How you doing rights tops and pops?

0:57:18.320 --> 0:57:20.680
<v Speaker 1>Rex Cleaner? That's who I am, my god.

0:57:21.000 --> 0:57:24.560
<v Speaker 2>So anyway, creativity, if we start looking at it, like

0:57:25.000 --> 0:57:27.880
<v Speaker 2>if we start looking at it with a wider lens

0:57:28.080 --> 0:57:33.000
<v Speaker 2>and say, everybody's included. Look what happened. Everybody's got a

0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:37.439
<v Speaker 2>phone and they're constantly filming themselves from flattering angles, from

0:57:37.440 --> 0:57:40.560
<v Speaker 2>flattering ink. Well, why do it on flattering A Yeah?

0:57:40.560 --> 0:57:41.000
<v Speaker 1>I agree.

0:57:41.560 --> 0:57:44.120
<v Speaker 2>You just put that camera on the moon shoot it,

0:57:44.160 --> 0:57:44.440
<v Speaker 2>you know what?

0:57:44.640 --> 0:57:46.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I used to do that on late night

0:57:46.920 --> 0:57:49.040
<v Speaker 1>know what it really knew picked up on that for ages?

0:57:49.160 --> 0:57:49.720
<v Speaker 2>What did you do?

0:57:49.920 --> 0:57:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Well? I had the camera set it like that the

0:57:52.320 --> 0:57:54.160
<v Speaker 1>whole time, because when I walked out to do the

0:57:54.160 --> 0:57:56.240
<v Speaker 1>first show in late night. I was looking at the monor.

0:57:56.320 --> 0:57:58.240
<v Speaker 1>I went, oh my god, look at my double tin.

0:57:58.360 --> 0:57:59.880
<v Speaker 1>I hate that. So I can't see if the car

0:58:00.360 --> 0:58:03.000
<v Speaker 1>up and he goes, this is weird, like up and

0:58:03.040 --> 0:58:04.240
<v Speaker 1>then and we got it to the point where it

0:58:04.240 --> 0:58:05.040
<v Speaker 1>didn't look like that.

0:58:05.080 --> 0:58:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Look good. No, I remember your body was yeah in alignment,

0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:11.720
<v Speaker 2>and it was like, well, I do that naturally. Like

0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:13.520
<v Speaker 2>the first thing I did is I check where that was.

0:58:13.520 --> 0:58:15.760
<v Speaker 2>I should be up about two more feet. But it's okay,

0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:17.240
<v Speaker 2>But that's straight on.

0:58:17.840 --> 0:58:18.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't do that.

0:58:18.560 --> 0:58:19.160
<v Speaker 2>It's not good.

0:58:19.320 --> 0:58:22.400
<v Speaker 1>Do I love you talk to people my older friends.

0:58:22.440 --> 0:58:25.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna say they are I know who they are.

0:58:25.760 --> 0:58:28.600
<v Speaker 1>But when you get FaceTime and they just like hold it,

0:58:29.560 --> 0:58:32.920
<v Speaker 1>what are they doing? Just see like teeth, what are

0:58:32.920 --> 0:58:34.240
<v Speaker 1>they doing?

0:58:34.360 --> 0:58:37.200
<v Speaker 2>And also looks like they're I don't know about.

0:58:36.920 --> 0:58:39.280
<v Speaker 1>To hold it to their ear and yeah, they don't know.

0:58:39.240 --> 0:58:52.080
<v Speaker 2>What they're doing. I have to say this because this

0:58:52.160 --> 0:58:54.840
<v Speaker 2>is what I learned when I was very young. I

0:58:54.880 --> 0:58:58.240
<v Speaker 2>went to a talk Arthur Miller did at the Dramata Skuild.

0:58:58.400 --> 0:59:01.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah he could write, okay. Arthur Miller, who wrote Death

0:59:01.800 --> 0:59:06.959
<v Speaker 2>of a salesman, handsome guy, tall, slim, it's also hoty.

0:59:07.120 --> 0:59:10.840
<v Speaker 2>So I'm in the audience, maybe one hundred people there

0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:15.160
<v Speaker 2>because when I was young, I went to everything. So

0:59:15.200 --> 0:59:17.400
<v Speaker 2>he comes out and there's a lady in a funny hat,

0:59:17.400 --> 0:59:19.080
<v Speaker 2>and I went, oh no, because you know, if you

0:59:19.160 --> 0:59:21.480
<v Speaker 2>signed books in Manhattan, all the crazies come out and

0:59:21.480 --> 0:59:24.080
<v Speaker 2>they're just badgering you and screaming at you and throwing

0:59:24.080 --> 0:59:26.280
<v Speaker 2>shit out of you. But this is that the drought

0:59:26.360 --> 0:59:28.320
<v Speaker 2>is going. Lady got up and he gave his talk,

0:59:28.360 --> 0:59:32.640
<v Speaker 2>and she says, wow, mister Miller, it's easy for you

0:59:32.720 --> 0:59:34.320
<v Speaker 2>to say because you're six. I think she was a

0:59:34.320 --> 0:59:40.600
<v Speaker 2>little drunk because it's successful. And he listened and he said, Mama,

0:59:40.640 --> 0:59:44.400
<v Speaker 2>thank you for your question. But here's what you need

0:59:44.440 --> 0:59:48.960
<v Speaker 2>to know. In every generation since the beginning of time,

0:59:50.440 --> 0:59:57.720
<v Speaker 2>very few playwrights are born. But now we have an

0:59:57.720 --> 1:00:02.960
<v Speaker 2>industry that siphon's off the few good ones think about

1:00:02.960 --> 1:00:07.840
<v Speaker 2>this and commands that everybody be a playwright in order

1:00:07.920 --> 1:00:11.080
<v Speaker 2>to produce the amount of material. This is the eighties

1:00:11.120 --> 1:00:14.479
<v Speaker 2>for television to produce the amount of material that needs

1:00:14.800 --> 1:00:18.400
<v Speaker 2>to serve the billions of people that are watching millions

1:00:18.400 --> 1:00:21.680
<v Speaker 2>and billions of people, he said, But that doesn't mean

1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:25.760
<v Speaker 2>that suddenly we have a lot more play rights. We don't.

1:00:26.200 --> 1:00:29.920
<v Speaker 2>So you're gonna have excellence and then you're gonna have

1:00:29.960 --> 1:00:34.800
<v Speaker 2>everybody else falling in someplace. But that has always stuck

1:00:34.840 --> 1:00:37.360
<v Speaker 2>with me. So if I watch a show on television,

1:00:37.360 --> 1:00:40.520
<v Speaker 2>I go play right or not? Playing not? A playwright's

1:00:40.560 --> 1:00:44.160
<v Speaker 2>another thing. Movie play right, not play right, play right.

1:00:45.160 --> 1:00:48.720
<v Speaker 2>So it goes like that, But I think he's right.

1:00:49.200 --> 1:00:55.560
<v Speaker 2>The ability to dramatize is a very unique talent, the

1:00:55.600 --> 1:01:01.360
<v Speaker 2>ability to put a story on its feet through words.

1:01:02.600 --> 1:01:06.040
<v Speaker 2>That's what dramatizing means. Can I get you up there,

1:01:06.360 --> 1:01:09.840
<v Speaker 2>another actor, and you guys do this play that scene?

1:01:11.280 --> 1:01:16.520
<v Speaker 2>That is that takes not only a wide lens, but

1:01:17.000 --> 1:01:21.160
<v Speaker 2>particular lenses to pull off an understanding of every character

1:01:21.240 --> 1:01:24.160
<v Speaker 2>on an equal basis with the other, to wait it properly.

1:01:26.240 --> 1:01:30.240
<v Speaker 2>So what Bill Persky taught me was that Bill Persky

1:01:30.320 --> 1:01:33.240
<v Speaker 2>created that girl, Kate Nally. He's a great he's like

1:01:33.280 --> 1:01:36.680
<v Speaker 2>a mentor of mine. He did working it out, and

1:01:36.760 --> 1:01:39.160
<v Speaker 2>he said, and I'm going to misquote him, but it's

1:01:39.200 --> 1:01:43.320
<v Speaker 2>close television. And keep in mind he started on the

1:01:43.400 --> 1:01:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Dick Van Dyke show. I've heard of it one of

1:01:45.480 --> 1:01:47.600
<v Speaker 2>the greatest shows ever, ever, ever, may to watch it

1:01:47.640 --> 1:01:50.360
<v Speaker 2>ever made. He started out on that show. He was

1:01:50.400 --> 1:01:54.840
<v Speaker 2>trained by Carl Reiner. Okay, so now you know the pedigree.

1:01:55.400 --> 1:01:57.960
<v Speaker 2>So then he became a showrunner a director and had

1:01:58.000 --> 1:02:02.680
<v Speaker 2>great success. But he said this to me, here's the

1:02:02.800 --> 1:02:07.000
<v Speaker 2>problem with TV. The people writing it now watched it

1:02:07.480 --> 1:02:11.720
<v Speaker 2>and they copy it. They copy it. So the plots

1:02:11.760 --> 1:02:17.160
<v Speaker 2>that you see, these plots that are just they's not.

1:02:18.440 --> 1:02:20.960
<v Speaker 2>You try to impose original characters in the old plots

1:02:21.040 --> 1:02:24.400
<v Speaker 2>or whatever the gig is, and the people hiring you

1:02:24.920 --> 1:02:27.640
<v Speaker 2>have an idea of what a show should be, and

1:02:27.720 --> 1:02:31.400
<v Speaker 2>it isn't a new creative idea. It's something that resonated

1:02:31.440 --> 1:02:32.800
<v Speaker 2>with them back in the day.

1:02:33.000 --> 1:02:36.480
<v Speaker 1>See I think that to extrapolate that though, now I

1:02:36.520 --> 1:02:41.120
<v Speaker 1>think people watch TV with their phone in their hand.

1:02:41.600 --> 1:02:46.280
<v Speaker 1>And I've heard executives say the phrase, it doesn't have

1:02:46.880 --> 1:02:50.760
<v Speaker 1>two screen ability. It doesn't have two screen life about

1:02:50.840 --> 1:02:54.720
<v Speaker 1>scripts where we have to have something like who was

1:02:54.760 --> 1:03:03.080
<v Speaker 1>it that really Robert who he hates Emily in Paris

1:03:03.160 --> 1:03:06.800
<v Speaker 1>And he was saying that Emily he fucking hates It's hilarious,

1:03:07.160 --> 1:03:13.480
<v Speaker 1>and he was saying that that that's a two screen show.

1:03:14.200 --> 1:03:17.240
<v Speaker 1>You can see that. That's the show where people can

1:03:17.360 --> 1:03:19.080
<v Speaker 1>play be on Instagram.

1:03:19.400 --> 1:03:22.160
<v Speaker 2>There's always been two screen shows. It's just you didn't

1:03:22.200 --> 1:03:24.520
<v Speaker 2>have a second screen to refer to. You were flipping

1:03:24.520 --> 1:03:25.280
<v Speaker 2>through a magazine.

1:03:25.320 --> 1:03:27.440
<v Speaker 1>You didn't make them, mone Carpus though, I mean, you

1:03:27.880 --> 1:03:29.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't make You didn't make a movie. Think and the

1:03:29.880 --> 1:03:30.840
<v Speaker 1>people were don't think.

1:03:31.080 --> 1:03:33.280
<v Speaker 2>You don't think the people making Emily and Prais think

1:03:33.320 --> 1:03:36.080
<v Speaker 2>they're doing great art. I do.

1:03:36.520 --> 1:03:38.240
<v Speaker 1>Look, I don't. I've never seen Emily and Press.

1:03:38.320 --> 1:03:40.520
<v Speaker 2>I have an either let's not pick on it. But

1:03:40.520 --> 1:03:42.480
<v Speaker 2>but they think they are.

1:03:43.040 --> 1:03:44.960
<v Speaker 1>No, I disagree. I disagree.

1:03:45.000 --> 1:03:46.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't. I don't.

1:03:46.240 --> 1:03:48.760
<v Speaker 1>I think they talk. They use the word content. They

1:03:48.800 --> 1:03:51.440
<v Speaker 1>don't use the word art. They use the word content.

1:03:51.520 --> 1:03:52.680
<v Speaker 1>We have to get more content.

1:03:52.760 --> 1:03:55.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, now you're getting to it. What's the difference between

1:03:55.440 --> 1:03:58.160
<v Speaker 2>content and art? Is a soul? I am not one.

1:03:58.360 --> 1:04:02.320
<v Speaker 1>No, it's not I it is no. I think the different. Well,

1:04:02.320 --> 1:04:04.960
<v Speaker 1>what's the difference the differences between pop music and rock

1:04:05.000 --> 1:04:08.160
<v Speaker 1>and roll? This is a phrase by Robert Fripp right,

1:04:08.400 --> 1:04:11.760
<v Speaker 1>who is the guitar player Robert Fripp who played He

1:04:11.840 --> 1:04:14.080
<v Speaker 1>played for, He played for everybody. He played for Boy,

1:04:14.040 --> 1:04:16.560
<v Speaker 1>he played talking Heads. He was the guy that invented this.

1:04:18.160 --> 1:04:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Robrato guitar.

1:04:24.480 --> 1:04:26.440
<v Speaker 1>Robert Fripp said, I think that different.

1:04:26.560 --> 1:04:29.160
<v Speaker 5>The difference, the difference between rock and round and pop

1:04:29.240 --> 1:04:32.680
<v Speaker 5>music is this. In pop music, someone foes in love.

1:04:33.520 --> 1:04:37.400
<v Speaker 5>In rock and row, someone gets fucked. That's the difference.

1:04:37.720 --> 1:04:40.120
<v Speaker 2>And I thought, yeah, I think that that's a very

1:04:40.160 --> 1:04:45.720
<v Speaker 2>good that's a very good analysis. But as the people

1:04:45.760 --> 1:04:48.880
<v Speaker 2>that write that music, like Bob Gaudio from the Four Seasons,

1:04:49.280 --> 1:04:52.600
<v Speaker 2>who wrote short shorts and his family survived on short

1:04:52.600 --> 1:04:55.040
<v Speaker 2>shorts for years. He was the first guy to sell

1:04:55.080 --> 1:04:59.560
<v Speaker 2>the commercials. I told him, I see, because you don't

1:04:59.600 --> 1:05:01.760
<v Speaker 2>have to learn words you wear churches were to write

1:05:01.800 --> 1:05:04.080
<v Speaker 2>church or who wear church arts? Yeah, you learn it

1:05:04.080 --> 1:05:06.840
<v Speaker 2>in two seconds. But he was the first guy to

1:05:06.880 --> 1:05:11.040
<v Speaker 2>sell to the commercials. Now they sell their their catalogs

1:05:11.240 --> 1:05:13.280
<v Speaker 2>and the great songs you're gonna hear born to run

1:05:13.320 --> 1:05:16.120
<v Speaker 2>on a car commercial if you haven't already. All of

1:05:16.120 --> 1:05:19.600
<v Speaker 2>that is immaterial to what I'm saying, what I'm trying

1:05:19.600 --> 1:05:23.880
<v Speaker 2>to get at here in terms of art, here's the difference, right,

1:05:26.120 --> 1:05:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Art is the journey of a soul. AI is the

1:05:32.080 --> 1:05:37.680
<v Speaker 2>journey of a robot and a computer and artificial intelligence,

1:05:38.040 --> 1:05:40.400
<v Speaker 2>and they keep trying to sell it to us. I'm

1:05:40.400 --> 1:05:42.160
<v Speaker 2>telling you, they keep trying to sell it to us,

1:05:42.640 --> 1:05:45.600
<v Speaker 2>but it doesn't have a soul. And I listen, I joined,

1:05:45.680 --> 1:05:48.160
<v Speaker 2>I joined the I want to hear it. What wasn't

1:05:48.160 --> 1:05:49.440
<v Speaker 2>I supposed to do that movie?

1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:53.520
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm doing a movie about AI about like it's

1:05:53.560 --> 1:05:55.800
<v Speaker 1>like a documentary. I'm doing it right now about because

1:05:55.800 --> 1:05:59.800
<v Speaker 1>they've invented an AI comedy program and god, we're putting

1:05:59.800 --> 1:06:01.000
<v Speaker 1>together those AI stunts.

1:06:01.040 --> 1:06:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, I can't wait to see what it is. But

1:06:02.960 --> 1:06:06.160
<v Speaker 2>what's missing from it that you have to provide I'm.

1:06:06.040 --> 1:06:08.360
<v Speaker 1>Not providing in for it. I'm very skeptical about the

1:06:08.360 --> 1:06:10.480
<v Speaker 1>whole thing. I'm like you, I don't feel like it

1:06:10.520 --> 1:06:13.840
<v Speaker 1>can be done. But there's some guys in Silicon Valley

1:06:13.880 --> 1:06:15.640
<v Speaker 1>think it can. And you know, and we're getting into

1:06:15.640 --> 1:06:16.240
<v Speaker 1>it a little.

1:06:16.000 --> 1:06:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Bit because sometimes we make bad movies and bad television

1:06:20.960 --> 1:06:24.439
<v Speaker 2>shows and write lousy books, and so those people who

1:06:24.480 --> 1:06:27.960
<v Speaker 2>have the dough, well, the people that have the dough think, well,

1:06:28.000 --> 1:06:29.800
<v Speaker 2>if they could do that, I could do this. It's

1:06:29.920 --> 1:06:35.360
<v Speaker 2>it looks deceptively easy, but to create a world is

1:06:35.480 --> 1:06:37.040
<v Speaker 2>not easy, and.

1:06:36.920 --> 1:06:38.600
<v Speaker 1>It takes, but it's got to look easy.

1:06:38.680 --> 1:06:41.560
<v Speaker 2>It's the it's got to look easy, that's the trick.

1:06:41.880 --> 1:06:44.520
<v Speaker 2>That's the hat trick of the whole thing. But the

1:06:44.600 --> 1:06:49.400
<v Speaker 2>journey of the soul is what binds us as human beings, not.

1:06:50.200 --> 1:06:55.760
<v Speaker 1>It takes us back to the Catholic plays on the

1:06:55.800 --> 1:06:58.360
<v Speaker 1>bus where we have to you know.

1:07:00.280 --> 1:07:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Know what do we know about? What we do is

1:07:04.520 --> 1:07:10.640
<v Speaker 2>that you Our job is to connect to that person

1:07:11.240 --> 1:07:15.320
<v Speaker 2>whoever we decided it is in our subconscious imagination or whatever,

1:07:15.560 --> 1:07:19.800
<v Speaker 2>or whoever we see out there. That is our job.

1:07:20.840 --> 1:07:23.640
<v Speaker 2>And they have to know within two minutes of sitting

1:07:23.680 --> 1:07:26.640
<v Speaker 2>in that seat why they are there. Now if you

1:07:26.680 --> 1:07:27.720
<v Speaker 2>think AI can, I.

1:07:27.720 --> 1:07:29.440
<v Speaker 1>Don't think you get two minutes. I think you get

1:07:29.480 --> 1:07:30.040
<v Speaker 1>twenty second.

1:07:30.080 --> 1:07:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Well you get twenty seconds now right Ruth gets would

1:07:32.400 --> 1:07:34.040
<v Speaker 2>have mend that, but she's been dead for twenty years.

1:07:34.120 --> 1:07:39.560
<v Speaker 2>But my playwriting mentor, but they have to know. You

1:07:39.760 --> 1:07:43.600
<v Speaker 2>need to dramatize why they're there.

1:07:43.800 --> 1:07:46.440
<v Speaker 1>I feel like, though we have to wrap this up,

1:07:46.480 --> 1:07:47.120
<v Speaker 1>but very quickly.

1:07:48.240 --> 1:07:51.120
<v Speaker 2>I've got hours to go, with miles to go before

1:07:51.120 --> 1:07:58.160
<v Speaker 2>I think has been a sleeper minute. Please wrap this up.

1:07:58.200 --> 1:07:59.720
<v Speaker 2>It's getting very esoteric.

1:08:01.240 --> 1:08:04.440
<v Speaker 1>I feel like because you and I are both fans

1:08:04.480 --> 1:08:08.200
<v Speaker 1>of first lines and books, and that does it. That doesn't.

1:08:08.480 --> 1:08:10.520
<v Speaker 1>My favorite first line of any book is it was

1:08:10.560 --> 1:08:12.680
<v Speaker 1>a bright, cold day in April and the clocks were

1:08:12.680 --> 1:08:18.680
<v Speaker 1>striking thirteen, the first line of nineteen eighty four. And

1:08:18.960 --> 1:08:20.880
<v Speaker 1>I feel like in that first line of Or it

1:08:20.920 --> 1:08:22.479
<v Speaker 1>was the best of times, it was the worst of time.

1:08:22.600 --> 1:08:23.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a good one.

1:08:23.479 --> 1:08:28.200
<v Speaker 1>You know. It's like, right away, you go, shit's happening.

1:08:28.840 --> 1:08:31.519
<v Speaker 1>It's something weird has happened. The clocks are striking thirteen.

1:08:31.560 --> 1:08:33.200
<v Speaker 1>What the fuck is going on with it? You know?

1:08:33.280 --> 1:08:36.599
<v Speaker 1>It's like you kick off, And I feel like that's okay.

1:08:36.680 --> 1:08:40.080
<v Speaker 1>I get that. I don't mind that, but it's nice

1:08:40.080 --> 1:08:43.639
<v Speaker 1>to have something to like. That line on its own

1:08:43.800 --> 1:08:46.400
<v Speaker 1>isn't much good unless you got nineteen eighty four behind it.

1:08:47.320 --> 1:08:51.679
<v Speaker 1>And I feel like, you know what, Also, I'm sixty

1:08:51.680 --> 1:08:53.400
<v Speaker 1>three years old now. I mean, it's part of what

1:08:53.520 --> 1:08:56.639
<v Speaker 1>I have to do is be cranky about New.

1:08:56.560 --> 1:08:59.800
<v Speaker 2>York where you were crazy at twenty two, but sad.

1:09:00.320 --> 1:09:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Don't try to fop that off on your age. That's

1:09:03.600 --> 1:09:05.880
<v Speaker 2>that's your nature that you were born with.

1:09:06.439 --> 1:09:11.799
<v Speaker 4>Now, the crank would be a great baby.

1:09:11.840 --> 1:09:13.320
<v Speaker 1>We were born the crank.

1:09:13.720 --> 1:09:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Poor Bruce Bringsteen, he's going through it right now. But anyway, this, this,

1:09:17.920 --> 1:09:22.400
<v Speaker 2>this makes me think of something if if well, well,

1:09:23.280 --> 1:09:29.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, if this ai thing, you know, I'm now

1:09:29.360 --> 1:09:32.200
<v Speaker 2>on the author's guilt, and all we do is file

1:09:32.280 --> 1:09:38.680
<v Speaker 2>lawsuits against it, which is effective. It's effective. But what

1:09:38.760 --> 1:09:44.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm learning from other writers is that hey, we can't

1:09:44.760 --> 1:09:51.000
<v Speaker 2>be replaced. We can't be, but we can in a

1:09:51.080 --> 1:09:56.519
<v Speaker 2>poor fashion. So it is incumbent upon us to deliver

1:09:56.680 --> 1:10:02.559
<v Speaker 2>storytelling that no machine can do. So what does that mean?

1:10:03.320 --> 1:10:06.320
<v Speaker 1>It means that we're going back to what Arthur Mellis said,

1:10:06.360 --> 1:10:10.000
<v Speaker 1>which is there's only a few playwrights and everybody else's

1:10:10.040 --> 1:10:13.759
<v Speaker 1>which is great. Now we're done, We're done with this this.

1:10:17.680 --> 1:10:20.640
<v Speaker 2>You are just so do you really wrap it up

1:10:20.680 --> 1:10:24.960
<v Speaker 2>so rudely? People watching your like, what an asshole? What

1:10:25.080 --> 1:10:27.799
<v Speaker 2>is wrong with that? I know? Is there a clock ticking?

1:10:27.840 --> 1:10:30.720
<v Speaker 2>I can't tell. There's so many animal heads in here

1:10:31.600 --> 1:10:32.120
<v Speaker 2>for a clock.

1:10:32.240 --> 1:10:34.160
<v Speaker 1>There's the clock right behind you.

1:10:34.680 --> 1:10:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that's behind me. I can't turn because I'm

1:10:37.160 --> 1:10:40.080
<v Speaker 2>on I'm on. Your shoe can turn? Oh, I see it? Yeah,

1:10:40.080 --> 1:10:41.680
<v Speaker 2>that's large, Okay.

1:10:41.479 --> 1:10:43.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and his face.

1:10:44.439 --> 1:10:49.040
<v Speaker 2>See, I didn't mean my Catholic thing. I can't be rude.

1:10:49.040 --> 1:10:51.240
<v Speaker 2>I would never look I would.

1:10:51.040 --> 1:10:51.400
<v Speaker 3>Just like you.

1:10:52.479 --> 1:10:53.920
<v Speaker 1>If you called me an asshole, which.

1:10:55.360 --> 1:10:57.680
<v Speaker 2>I didn't call you, I behaving like one. No, it's

1:10:57.760 --> 1:10:59.000
<v Speaker 2>just different. Did I call you one?

1:11:00.040 --> 1:11:01.479
<v Speaker 1>You have done You might know I've done it in

1:11:01.479 --> 1:11:03.200
<v Speaker 1>this podcast. You've certainly.

1:11:04.400 --> 1:11:05.519
<v Speaker 2>I think you know how much.

1:11:06.040 --> 1:11:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I love you too, and that is a

1:11:07.760 --> 1:11:11.519
<v Speaker 1>good place and stuff. Get out of here. H