Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of
Speaker 1: where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: Live from New York. Come Caroline Hyde and.
Speaker 3: I'm Jackie Devalas in San Francisco.
Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up.
Speaker 5: Apple's iPhones will use Ali Baba's AI technology or the
Speaker 5: partnership help Apple revive iPhone sales in China. Plus Reddit
Speaker 5: shares fool as user growth underwhelms. We talk with the
Speaker 5: COO about Google's algorithm.
Speaker 2: And its in house AI and.
Speaker 5: The feud between Elon Musk and Open Ai.
Speaker 2: It continues with Musk saying he.
Speaker 5: Would drop his bid for the startup if it halts
Speaker 5: its for profit restructuring. Drip feed News This coming as
Speaker 5: reports that yes, Ali Baba is going to be lending
Speaker 5: it's AI general to AI technology for Apple.
Speaker 2: Intelligence in China, crucial in terms.
Speaker 5: Of market share for this all important geography.
Speaker 2: But will it remain exclusive?
Speaker 5: There is so much to talk with Bloomberg's round Vastelica
Speaker 5: about it, about the importance of China. But this is
Speaker 5: Josi for was the chairman of Ali Baba, confirming previous
Speaker 5: reporting out there that Apple is getting its first general
Speaker 5: to AI partnership in China.
Speaker 6: Hey, thanks for having me, So this is a big development.
Speaker 6: China is obviously a major market for Apple. I think
Speaker 6: they got about seventeen percent of their revenue from the
Speaker 6: Greater China region in their most recent fiscal year. They
Speaker 6: have been seeing a little bit of struggle there in
Speaker 6: terms of sales. They're seeing increased competition from companies like Huawei.
Speaker 6: So the idea that they can get sort of really
Speaker 6: strong AI features onto devices there in China, that has
Speaker 6: seen as a real opportunity for them to kind of
Speaker 6: prove their fortunes there and that would help with overall growth,
Speaker 6: which is something that investors have been looking for for
Speaker 6: quite a while.
Speaker 3: Talk to us about some of the mechanics behind the manufacturing.
Speaker 3: I'm talking about the tariff risk. How are investors thinking
Speaker 3: about this potential risk as it relates to Apple.
Speaker 6: So Apple's really in sort of the crosshairs here because
Speaker 6: it does have such a major manufacturing hub out of
Speaker 6: China that we have seen tariff levy I think was
Speaker 6: tim percent tariffs China retaliated. It also has some kind
Speaker 6: of probe looking at Apple app store policy. So there's
Speaker 6: certainly a lot of questions here. We don't know how
Speaker 6: long tariffs might be in place for. We don't know
Speaker 6: if there's going to be an escalation. We don't know
Speaker 6: if Apple might get some kind of exemption the way
Speaker 6: it did during the first Trump term. So far, it
Speaker 6: seems like people aren't seen too significant an impact to
Speaker 6: earnings from this. But this is something that could clearly
Speaker 6: escalate and become a much bigger issue very quickly.
Speaker 5: And certainly we've seen the ramifications on the stock price
Speaker 5: from investigations coming from China from a regulatory perspective, and
Speaker 5: certainly Germany also looking into it.
Speaker 2: On the day as well. Ryan point us forward.
Speaker 5: From how this baks into evaluation and Apple, as we say,
Speaker 5: over the last five days, we're up two point seven percent.
Speaker 6: Yeah, recent performance has been pretty good.
Speaker 7: Overall.
Speaker 6: It has been an underperformer this year because of the
Speaker 6: early concerns about how strong iPhone sixteen demand was, and
Speaker 6: you know, the overall kind of geopolitical environments. You know,
Speaker 6: the stock does have a pretty high multiple given the
Speaker 6: fact that the growth is not what you're seeing in
Speaker 6: some of the other mag seven names. But people do
Speaker 6: consider it a pretty defensive and sort of safe haven
Speaker 6: kind of company, just because it's cash flow is enormous.
Speaker 6: It spends billions of dollars on buybacks. It hasn't been
Speaker 6: planning a ton of capbex into AI, which has become
Speaker 6: a concern for some of the other stocks. So there's
Speaker 6: certainly still reasons to recommend it, you know, services growth.
Speaker 6: You can kind of go down a list of issues
Speaker 6: like that, but do you think overall, I mean, people
Speaker 6: have been looking for a more pronounced growth inflection from
Speaker 6: the company, and when you have all these concerns about
Speaker 6: tariffs and China and so forth like that, that does
Speaker 6: make that a little bit harder in the near term.
Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Ryan West delica, thanks for joining us. Meanwhile, shares
Speaker 3: of Intel are rising and on track for its biggest
Speaker 3: one week jump in twenty five years.
Speaker 4: This as a report from Baar says.
Speaker 3: That the company could be in talks to work with
Speaker 3: a TSMC on a potential project for more. Bloomberg's Ian
Speaker 3: King joins us now Ian Intel has had a turbulent
Speaker 3: couple months. It's CEO being ousted. How much does Intel
Speaker 3: need a project like this.
Speaker 8: I think in general, we've seen the stock go up
Speaker 8: over the last few days. There's been a lot of speculation.
Speaker 8: What investors want is something to happen from the outside
Speaker 8: that could help Intel, because they've seen over the last
Speaker 8: couple of years that it really hasn't been able to
Speaker 8: change the direction of its fortunes. So, whether it's JD.
Speaker 8: Van's talking in Europe about hey, we need to do
Speaker 8: a made in America, whether it's speculation in Asia about
Speaker 8: it potentially getting help from partner, from partners who are
Speaker 8: currently competitors and less as are just looking for something,
Speaker 8: you know, give me a sign, give me a spark.
Speaker 5: Talking of spark and signs coming at the moment from Apple,
Speaker 5: I just want to return to some breaking news to
Speaker 5: Tim Cook is indeed posting about the next member of
Speaker 5: the Apple family coming on February the nineteenth. Throughout one
Speaker 5: point two percent. Much has been reported about the latest
Speaker 5: cheaper se revamp coming from our own Mark German previously,
Speaker 5: but at the moment, all the statement coming from Tim
Speaker 5: Cook is we are awaiting the newest member of the
Speaker 5: family of Apple. And you go to the ex post
Speaker 5: from Tim Cook, the CEO of that business.
Speaker 2: In sticking more with.
Speaker 5: What's occurring on the manufacturing side of things and what's happening.
Speaker 2: With Intel, we know that maybe they'll look at.
Speaker 5: Outsourcing manufacturing doing deals with TSMC, But more broadly, how
Speaker 5: in line with this is what pat originally wanted or
Speaker 5: how much of is a distinction from previous leadership.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think it's we have to be careful here
Speaker 8: to point to there being a lot of speculation. We
Speaker 8: don't actually know the much is happening right now. What
Speaker 8: we really need is big customers. If they get the
Speaker 8: big customers with huge orders that give them a lot
Speaker 8: of volume to fill those factories, then the plan is on.
Speaker 8: Then what Gelsinger tried to put in place is actually
Speaker 8: paying off. Until we see, you know, Apple or Nvidia
Speaker 8: or somebody else like that putting lots and lots of
Speaker 8: chips into Intel's factories, the plan is not really going anywhere.
Speaker 5: In King and all things Intel, which might say, has
Speaker 5: been on quite the crescendo in the last three weeks
Speaker 5: in terms of its share price. Let's give to Nooon
Speaker 5: breaking News SpaceX. We understand in South Africa the talks
Speaker 5: are stalling over tensions with Elon Musk and with President Trump,
Speaker 5: SpaceX and South Africa. The negotiators intend to restart talks later.
Speaker 5: This all about space X's adoption and its satellite use
Speaker 5: in South Africa.
Speaker 2: Will have more on that as and when we get it.
Speaker 5: But coming up, we'll be joined by Reddit COO Gen
Speaker 5: Wong to break down the company's earnings. That's coming next.
Speaker 5: This is bloom meg Technology. Just look at Reddit right
Speaker 5: now shares our dam that's after fourth quarter user growth
Speaker 5: missed Wall Streets expectations that we're having in the worst days.
Speaker 5: It's November, the twenty second Reddit itself saying user growth
Speaker 5: was indeed impacted last quarter after Google made a change
Speaker 5: to its algorithm that impacted search traffic. Let's begin. Reddit
Speaker 5: COEO Gen Wong joins us now and just talk to
Speaker 5: us about how this quarter is currently looking in terms
Speaker 5: of the reaction to Google's overall algorithm change and how
Speaker 5: you drive your own fortunes when it comes to the
Speaker 5: use and adoption.
Speaker 2: Is staying with Reddit.
Speaker 9: Thanks for having me, Good morning. Q four was a
Speaker 9: really strong quarter for us.
Speaker 10: We saw daily active users growth thirty nine percent ear year,
Speaker 10: the revenue grow seventy one percent year. Every year so
Speaker 10: I think in terms of growth, we're probably top of
Speaker 10: the market in terms of both of those. Start to
Speaker 10: find a company that's growing as fast for the things
Speaker 10: that we control. In terms of making the product better,
Speaker 10: making it easier, helping people find communities faster.
Speaker 9: We're really happy with our work.
Speaker 10: Our work is working, and that's been consistent over the
Speaker 10: last four quarters, and there's a lot more there. We're
Speaker 10: still early in that process. In late Q four we
Speaker 10: did see that there were some changes in Google that
Speaker 10: sort of came and went. We've seen recovery since then
Speaker 10: and we're off to a really good start and the
Speaker 10: work that we're doing again continues to bear fruit and
Speaker 10: making Reddit more extensible. Reddit is an opportunity, as an
Speaker 10: opportunity to address everybody. The whole world needs community and
Speaker 10: has passions and interests and can be on Reddit. So
Speaker 10: we make redit easier, more accessible, help people find their
Speaker 10: communities faster. That's when it becomes extend incible to everybody
Speaker 10: in the world. So our tam is really everybody. We're
Speaker 10: just early in that journey, so we feel very good
Speaker 10: about our roadmap and our opportunity.
Speaker 3: Jen Reddit has a licensing agreement with Google and in
Speaker 3: the earnings call yesterday, the company called that relationship symbiotics.
Speaker 3: So the faster that users can find Reddit on a
Speaker 3: Google search, the more engaged they can be on your website,
Speaker 3: and then in turn, the better data that Google is
Speaker 3: able to glean. Have you had conversations with Google about
Speaker 3: maybe cutting you some slack or at least giving you,
Speaker 3: guys a heads up next time there's an algorithm.
Speaker 10: Change the way that Google work, you know, Google Google
Speaker 10: the way the algorithm work is there proprietary work. The
Speaker 10: conversations we've had are around obviously the Reddit data and
Speaker 10: how that can be used for training and for in
Speaker 10: their you know, search generative products. There's no question that
Speaker 10: it's a symbiotic relationship in that. What happened when next year,
Speaker 10: I think in searches demonstrates this. So Reddit has become
Speaker 10: the sixth most search term in US in Google.
Speaker 9: I mean, that's incredible.
Speaker 10: That means people are intentionally searching for Reddit. They're typing
Speaker 10: in a query what's the best backpack Reddit? Because they
Speaker 10: are trying to navigate to the recommendations and the trove
Speaker 10: of human intelligence on Reddit, and because Reddit has the
Speaker 10: best answers on the internet, and Google is a place
Speaker 10: where people go for broad based questions. It's a really
Speaker 10: symbiotic relationship, and that helps reveal the corpus of information
Speaker 10: that Reddit has to users who are searching the broad
Speaker 10: based Internet. So in that sense, you know, it's been
Speaker 10: a very fruitful partnership.
Speaker 4: But if it's getting harder for users.
Speaker 3: To find a Reddit link via Google Search, do you
Speaker 3: see this kind of algorithm change or similar ones in
Speaker 3: the future straining that relationship.
Speaker 10: We've been beneficiaries of the open Internet, and again, when
Speaker 10: people are intentionally navigating to Reddit, that tells us that
Speaker 10: they are trying to access that information on red the recommendations,
Speaker 10: the advice. So I think we're really important because we're
Speaker 10: actually what users are seeking, right, they're actively searching for us.
Speaker 9: The way we think about it is this whole process of.
Speaker 10: Data licensing is really I think revealed how important reddits
Speaker 10: content is, and we also have an opportunity to build
Speaker 10: our own products around our corpus of information. You see
Speaker 10: this with us testing something called Reddit Answers, which is
Speaker 10: a chat based search that reveals recommendations on Reddit.
Speaker 9: Again what's the best backpack.
Speaker 10: But it gives you a search result that is specific
Speaker 10: to Reddit that shows answers and opinions across every subreddit
Speaker 10: a really different experience from broad based internet search, and
Speaker 10: I think we have an opportunity to continue to build
Speaker 10: our own products around our corpus of information in addition
Speaker 10: to being in sort of broad based search on the Internet.
Speaker 5: So speak to those analysts or investors with some anxiety
Speaker 5: about the dependence on Google. How much is Reddit ass
Speaker 5: boosting the engagement that you control.
Speaker 10: Reddit answers is early right now, it's it's in a
Speaker 10: beta test, But we like what we're seeing there.
Speaker 9: I think the thesis of people wanting.
Speaker 10: To come and be able to search Reddit and see
Speaker 10: what is happening across opinions across all communities, that thesis,
Speaker 10: I think.
Speaker 9: Is born out, and so we're excited about what we
Speaker 9: see there.
Speaker 10: We are investing in search search of Reddit, and there's
Speaker 10: an opportunity for us that will continue to be building out.
Speaker 10: When I think about the opportunity here, it's it's it's enormous, right,
Speaker 10: I mean recommendations and advice. We have twenty years of
Speaker 10: conversations on every topic on the planet, and so it's
Speaker 10: core to our mission to empower communities and make their
Speaker 10: knowledge accessible both to all.
Speaker 3: That's red at COO. Jen Wong, thanks so much for
Speaker 3: joining us. We also caught up with the CEO of
Speaker 3: Lyft yesterday on the heels of the company's earnings. We
Speaker 3: discussed his outlook on autonomous vehicles and competition with the
Speaker 3: likes of Weaimo, and he says Lift's market share in
Speaker 3: San Francisco has not.
Speaker 4: Moved to a listen.
Speaker 11: In San Francisco, it's flat.
Speaker 12: Interesting is even as they increase in San Francisco, our
Speaker 12: share has been flat now, So that suggests that the
Speaker 12: market is expanding, maybe suggests that they're taking some share from.
Speaker 11: The other guys. I don't know.
Speaker 12: In Phoenix, we're actually growing faster than ever, so we
Speaker 12: grow about fifteen percent nationwide in Phoenix. It's a little
Speaker 12: north of that. So that also even and Wyn was
Speaker 12: quite active there. So it's a great profit. It's great technology,
Speaker 12: but I think a lot of people come and they
Speaker 12: use it, and they like it, and then they come
Speaker 12: back to traditional ride share and.
Speaker 11: Use this both.
Speaker 3: Your competitor, Uber said it would quote hopefully partner with
Speaker 3: Tesla's on autonomous vehicles. They said that last year has
Speaker 3: lived had any conversations with Elon Musk or Tesla about
Speaker 3: a potential partnership.
Speaker 12: You know, I don't talk about individual things like that.
Speaker 12: I think, you know, there's this sort of danger of
Speaker 12: kind of trying to win the press release and announcement war,
Speaker 12: and we try to win the service war. That's kind
Speaker 12: of our thing. So I want to say not. I
Speaker 12: think it's I think that'll be all kinds of partnerships,
Speaker 12: I really do, and the ones that happen, we'll kind of.
Speaker 11: Have to see.
Speaker 3: The incoming Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy has proposed that a
Speaker 3: federal level law should kind of supersede this patchwork of
Speaker 3: state by state rules for autonomous vehicles. Do you think
Speaker 3: this new administration would help lift's ambitions in autonomous vehicles?
Speaker 11: I do, I do.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 11: The safe by state thing is really hard.
Speaker 12: I mean, it's you understand, you want to do some
Speaker 12: local experimentation in different states are different, they have different cultures,
Speaker 12: they have different geographies, different weather and.
Speaker 11: So on and so forth.
Speaker 12: But an overall sort of safety, you know, kind of
Speaker 12: framework and general autonomous vehicle framework I think would be
Speaker 12: very helpful in helping this industry move a little bit
Speaker 12: faster and frankly, keep up with the way the rest.
Speaker 11: Of the world is going.
Speaker 3: That was Lift CEO David Risher. We're also watching shares
Speaker 3: of Coinbase. Shares are up over six percent because it's
Speaker 3: a key beneficiary of President Trump's promise to usher in
Speaker 3: a new era for the cryptospace.
Speaker 4: The exchange is.
Speaker 3: Reporting fourth quarter results after the belt today, and Wall
Speaker 3: Street is expecting to see a boost in trading volumes
Speaker 3: on the back of bitcoins gains.
Speaker 5: Blue Origin, Jeff Bezos' rocket company, is cutting ten percent
Speaker 5: of its workforce to cut costs, to trim manager ranks,
Speaker 5: and to focus on ramping.
Speaker 2: Up rocket launches.
Speaker 5: That the surprise round of layoffs comes about a month
Speaker 5: after Blue Origin debuted its flagship New Glen Rocket Swing
Speaker 5: years of delays and development setbacks.
Speaker 3: Jackie startup K two Space has raised one hundred and
Speaker 3: ten million dollars in a series speed funding ground led
Speaker 3: by light Speed Ventures and Ultimeter Capital. The company, created
Speaker 3: by former SpaceX engineers, is developing.
Speaker 4: A platform to launch multiple.
Speaker 3: Satellites into orbit at higher speed and lower costs than
Speaker 3: currently available. Joining us now is K two Space CEO
Speaker 3: Karen Kundred. Thank you so much for joining us. Walk
Speaker 3: us through about what your platform actually does. It's essentially
Speaker 3: almost like a bus for satellites. How are you able
Speaker 3: to do this at a cheaper price?
Speaker 13: So we're building a platform that is ten times more
Speaker 13: powerful than existing platforms.
Speaker 11: Today.
Speaker 13: When it comes to applications in space, almost every application
Speaker 13: ties back to power. So my brother and I kind
Speaker 13: of started the company on the contrarian bet.
Speaker 11: We decided to go the opposite direction.
Speaker 13: Of the market that was going smaller and lower power
Speaker 13: with their satellites and redesign the satellite. From the reaction,
Speaker 13: weill up to build a platform that is higher power,
Speaker 13: higher capability, while still being able to multi manifest into
Speaker 13: launch vehicles to do constellations.
Speaker 5: The market has come to your contrariant bet because SpaceX
Speaker 5: is starship just the innovation in terms of bigger and
Speaker 5: bigger rockets being able to pay take these bigger and
Speaker 5: bigger payloads. I'm interested in ultimately what the manufacturing therefore
Speaker 5: is needed in the United States because you're vertically integrated exactly.
Speaker 13: Yeah, all launch players like SpaceX and Blue Origin are
Speaker 13: moving the market larger. We kind of equate it to
Speaker 13: we're moving from an era of launch constraint in space
Speaker 13: to launch abundance. It's almost as if we're operating in
Speaker 13: the age of dial up internet and moving to broadband,
Speaker 13: and our company was started under this premise of like
Speaker 13: what happens at this new age of broadband where we
Speaker 13: can do things differently. For us, it's vertical integration, it's
Speaker 13: rebuilding the satellite. We're building about seventy five percent of
Speaker 13: the satellite in the house, and that allows us to
Speaker 13: do a lot of unique things to optimize the platform
Speaker 13: for the launch future that we see coming, not necessarily
Speaker 13: the launch vehicles of the past.
Speaker 3: You've already brought in millions of dollars worth of contracts,
Speaker 3: both coming from the public sector but also commercial contracts.
Speaker 3: We've heard a lot about the DoD getting inside Silicon
Speaker 3: Valley trying to scoop up some of those startup ideas.
Speaker 4: But talk to us about your commercial.
Speaker 3: Partnerships, because there's a lot of space companies out there
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 13: The interesting thing about going higher power, when you tex
Speaker 13: the amount of power, you also dramatically increase the throughput
Speaker 13: per satellite. So our commercial customers are mainly commercial operators
Speaker 13: that are beaming data down from space that see the
Speaker 13: potential when you have ten times the amount of power
Speaker 13: to fundamentally change the unit economics of their business. Higher
Speaker 13: power means more throughput while maintaining the low cost means
Speaker 13: that they're actually able to deploy even more satellites with
Speaker 13: even more capacity on orbit in a way they never
Speaker 13: could before.
Speaker 3: So are these like SpaceX, Blue Origin those kind of players.
Speaker 13: SpaceX and Blue Origin are two of the players, but
Speaker 13: there's a bunch of others out there as well that
Speaker 13: are also thinking about how to better operate their constellations
Speaker 13: on orbit.
Speaker 5: What's so interesting is the government side of things as well, Karen,
Speaker 5: And you've got John Plum, of course, who used to
Speaker 5: be in government, former Assistance Sectuary of Defense for Space
Speaker 5: policy in house now. But how is it liaising with
Speaker 5: the current administration that we've just had breaking news that
Speaker 5: a deal with Starling over in South Africa is in
Speaker 5: jeopardy because of relationships between Elon Musk and President Trump.
Speaker 2: How are you finding relationships?
Speaker 13: Yeah, we were pretty excited to bring John on the team.
Speaker 13: He's the former Assistant Secretary of Defense for space policy.
Speaker 13: When we first briefed him, he kind of saw what
Speaker 13: was possible with this completely new platform at the end
Speaker 13: of the day, we believe that if we build a
Speaker 13: platform that is as differentiated as what we claim it
Speaker 13: to be, our work with the national security and commercial
Speaker 13: customers will come regardless of the political environment. What I
Speaker 13: will say is that the existing administration has clearly shown
Speaker 13: that they believe space is the next frontier, an important
Speaker 13: place to have investment, and we're pretty excited to continue
Speaker 13: to service our national security customers.
Speaker 3: You know news today that Blue Origin is cutting ten
Speaker 3: percent of its workforce. Are you worried at all that
Speaker 3: that signals a broader slow down in the space in
Speaker 3: any way?
Speaker 13: Yeah, it's you know, we have a lot of friends
Speaker 13: that work over there. We're pretty sad to see hear
Speaker 13: about that, and you know, we'll be trying to hire
Speaker 13: ourselves people that may be leading from that company. I
Speaker 13: think layoffs and investment are always a part of the
Speaker 13: national natural capital cycle when it comes to any business.
Speaker 13: You don't like to see it, but sometimes that happens,
Speaker 13: and so I don't think it's a nicative of a
Speaker 13: broader trend. I mean, we raised we were preempted on
Speaker 13: our Series A thirteen months ago. We were preempted again
Speaker 13: on our Series B two months ago, we've raised about
Speaker 13: one hundred and eighty million dollars in venture capital.
Speaker 11: Today we're not seeing that.
Speaker 13: What we see is if we're truly building something that's different,
Speaker 13: with the differentiated team that's going after it, the capital
Speaker 13: is there to fund our vision.
Speaker 5: Okay, so potentially hiring up some of that talent that
Speaker 5: has to be pushed out.
Speaker 2: Talk about next steps?
Speaker 5: Where next do we see K two space? You've just
Speaker 5: this month, well I think it was in January in fact,
Speaker 5: flying several technology demonstrations using SpaceX.
Speaker 2: What's the next key marker?
Speaker 13: Yeah, so we just finished up our first successful in
Speaker 13: space mission, so, as we like to say, we're now
Speaker 13: a real space company.
Speaker 11: And yeah, we were pretty excited to.
Speaker 13: Have that because, as I said, we're kind of resetting
Speaker 13: the entire supply chain, so we had to fly a
Speaker 13: bunch of the components that we built from scratch to
Speaker 13: start buying down risk on the full platform.
Speaker 11: We're now shifting gears.
Speaker 13: We're moving towards the full satellite platform mission that's called Gravitas,
Speaker 13: that's launching fund of twenty twenty six. We want a
Speaker 13: thirty million dollars contract back in December from the Department
Speaker 13: of Defense to fly a number of national security payloads,
Speaker 13: and our goals is to basically showcase this differentiated platform
Speaker 13: and buy down the entire risk of the platform. We're
Speaker 13: going to fly to the harshest environments. We're going to
Speaker 13: test the platform. We're going to show what happens when
Speaker 13: you have twenty kilo lots of power, and we're really
Speaker 13: going to prove out this completely new capability to our customer.
Speaker 5: Set Leo moo Leeos Karen Kunjam, We thank you so much,
Speaker 5: Ceo KTI Space, It's great having time with you. Welcome
Speaker 5: back to LUMAT Technology and Caroline Hyder.
Speaker 3: New York, and I'm Jackie Devalas in San Francisco.
Speaker 5: Quick check on these markets and in fact single names, Jackie,
Speaker 5: there are still earnings coming thick and fast, the good,
Speaker 5: the bad, the ugly.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at.
Speaker 5: App Lovin up twenty eight percent, not forty percent growth
Speaker 5: in terms of their previous year revenue, but they're also
Speaker 5: selling off their game development unit for nine hundred million
Speaker 5: dollars to private company.
Speaker 2: The investors love it.
Speaker 5: We're up twenty eight percent, trade desk down thirty one percent,
Speaker 5: a rare miss for the advertising focused business. And this is,
Speaker 5: as Fundamental said, they disappointed themselves in terms of their
Speaker 5: own growth in.
Speaker 2: The previous years.
Speaker 5: So investors really trying to take on board what this
Speaker 5: means in terms of sentiment for advertising and trade desk.
Speaker 2: More broadly, Data Dog also under.
Speaker 5: Pressure up eight percent, down eight percent. This is they too,
Speaker 5: see an underwhelming forecast in particular, and really trying to
Speaker 5: see from an analyst and investment perspective, this is just
Speaker 5: conservative if actually the cloud trend is going to be
Speaker 5: good for them in the long term, and indeed some
Speaker 5: of the generative AI adoption for the software company move
Speaker 5: on to generative AI story of the day, Apple because finally.
Speaker 2: We'll get some Apple intelligence into China.
Speaker 5: Because it seems though Joe Sai over of course, that
Speaker 5: Ali Barber is confirming that, yes, the reports are true.
Speaker 2: We are going to be teaming up with Apple.
Speaker 5: We're going to be giving them access to our generative
Speaker 5: AI models, and you're going to get Apple intelligence in China.
Speaker 5: The first of these deals when it remained exclusive for long, Jackie,
Speaker 5: what you.
Speaker 3: Got Elon Musk's bid to buy open Ai is being
Speaker 3: used against the tech billionaire. Lawyers for Lawyers for Sam
Speaker 3: Altman argue that the offer ultimately contradicts Musk's arguments that
Speaker 3: open Ai cannot be transferred away for private gain. In
Speaker 3: response to open eyes filing, Tesla CEO told the court
Speaker 3: he'd drop his bid for open Ai if the company
Speaker 3: halts it's restructuring for more. Bloomberg's Rachel Metz joins us. Now, Rachel,
Speaker 3: does this feud risk slowing down Open Eye's progress?
Speaker 14: That is the possibility, at least as far as the
Speaker 14: progress toward the restructuring. It certainly puts more attention on
Speaker 14: what's happening there, and they're in the middle of what
Speaker 14: is no matter what going to be a submen lengthy process.
Speaker 14: And it certainly, you know, with the court battle of
Speaker 14: that open Ai an Eland must have, this puts.
Speaker 9: Like one more It's like one more way to come
Speaker 9: up the works.
Speaker 5: And I think we've got to remember the context, the
Speaker 5: complex context to all of this. Fifteen Elong Sam other
Speaker 5: founders make a not for profit twenty nineteen. It becomes
Speaker 5: in part a for profit with a cap for profit
Speaker 5: that the nonprofit controls. And now well that might reverse
Speaker 5: as to who controls whom.
Speaker 14: It's very complicated, and you can see how that structure
Speaker 14: itself also makes it hard to even understand if you
Speaker 14: are putting in a bid for this for the startup
Speaker 14: portion of the company, and that's in its assets, like
Speaker 14: what exactly are you buying?
Speaker 9: How much should it be valued at?
Speaker 14: So, yeah, it is overall just a very complicated situation.
Speaker 14: And then if you put in a feud there, yeah,
Speaker 14: you're making You're making things ultra complicated.
Speaker 5: Wow, the media and spectators are here for it, Rachel Metz.
Speaker 5: We appreciate your time and giving us the context. Meanwhile,
Speaker 5: Adobe sticking with generator of AI is a mean to
Speaker 5: convince skeptical investors that it can compete with AI startups
Speaker 5: such as open Ai. The company introduced a new product
Speaker 5: that charges around fifty cents per AI generated video now.
Speaker 5: It also launched new subscriptions for its fly ai models.
Speaker 2: For more.
Speaker 5: We joined by Blue Merg's Brodie Ford. Interesting that we
Speaker 5: get the price point here.
Speaker 15: Absolutely so Adobe, it's really existential for them in the
Speaker 15: pre AI era, if you needed to edit some photos
Speaker 15: and videos, you needed Adobe. The big question for the
Speaker 15: last two years has been once generative AI becomes more commonplace,
Speaker 15: do you still need Adobe? And it seems investors change
Speaker 15: their mind every six months, and so today what is
Speaker 15: so interesting is that we are getting you know, it's
Speaker 15: going to be about fifty cents a pop to make
Speaker 15: AI videos. That's pretty competitive with some of the startup rivals,
Speaker 15: which is meaningful because the startup rivals don't have to
Speaker 15: report every quarter, they can eat some costs a little longer.
Speaker 15: So it's interesting to see them price what I would
Speaker 15: think as somewhat aggressively.
Speaker 3: Here, Bertie, let's talk about the product itself. How does
Speaker 3: it compare with what's already on the market, because open
Speaker 3: Ai and even Runway also have competing products.
Speaker 15: I thought it was pretty cool, right, and I tried
Speaker 15: it out yesterday and I found it to be a
Speaker 15: pretty effective product that worked well. I mean, and what
Speaker 15: Adobe has always said is not that we are going
Speaker 15: to have the number one best model visually, but that
Speaker 15: we're going to have really great controls. You're going to
Speaker 15: be able to integrate it with the software you already use,
Speaker 15: You're going to keep it in the ecosystem in general,
Speaker 15: especially for enterprises, they don't want to have a bunch
Speaker 15: of bespoke models coming in with potential security risks, and
Speaker 15: so ADOBEA has really tried to make sure that it
Speaker 15: integrates well into existing environments. And you know, I was
Speaker 15: impressed with some of those manual tools and trying get out.
Speaker 5: Yesterday, Body Ford across the Adobe News.
Speaker 11: We appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Let's bring you some macro news. Government news here. Robert F.
Speaker 5: Kennedy Junior has indeed been confirmed as a new head
Speaker 5: of the US Department of Health and Human Services. Is
Speaker 5: approved with a fifty two to forty eight vote after
Speaker 5: pretty tense confirmation hearings. And we'll now of course have
Speaker 5: influence of the FDA, the CDC, and the federal insurance programs.
Speaker 5: Morgan Stanley boosting the latest debt offering of.
Speaker 2: Elon musk X. Now the bank will.
Speaker 5: Upsize it's offering from the market to three billion dollars
Speaker 5: to four point seven billion dollars or due to strong
Speaker 5: investor demand.
Speaker 2: Jackie.
Speaker 3: Here's what some of Bloomberg's TV guests had to say
Speaker 3: about Deep Seek at the Paris AI summit taking place
Speaker 3: earlier this week.
Speaker 6: I feel so confident about our research shroadmap and also
Speaker 6: our product droadmap.
Speaker 11: That you know, Deep Seak will do whatever Deep Seak's
Speaker 11: going to do.
Speaker 16: Other people do whatever they're going to do and we're
Speaker 16: just going to try to like build.
Speaker 11: The best technology we can and get into people's hands.
Speaker 7: It's a very impressive model, or very impressive piece of work.
Speaker 7: I think the team is probably the best team that
Speaker 7: I've seen come out of China. So that said, I
Speaker 7: think a lot of the claims are exaggerated and a
Speaker 7: little bit misleading.
Speaker 3: A lot of the key things from deep Seak are
Speaker 3: reducing the cost of innovation, but also raising this question
Speaker 3: of data control.
Speaker 17: If you have potentially mutal strained resources, you can make
Speaker 17: a better job then if you have your men's resources
Speaker 17: and stop thinking about what to do efficiently.
Speaker 3: I think there's been a lot of excitement, but we'll
Speaker 3: have to see if it material. Let's get to the
Speaker 3: infrastructure question in the age of deep Seek with today's
Speaker 3: VC Spotlight with Angene mitta general partner at Andresen Horowitz
Speaker 3: on Jenay. Where does this leave the conversation around how
Speaker 3: much infrastructure we actually need? What were you hearing on
Speaker 3: the sidelines of the Pear Summit.
Speaker 18: I heard that we are in the era of infrastructure independence. Basically,
Speaker 18: I think most large nation state leaders have realized that
Speaker 18: modern AI models have risen to the level of general
Speaker 18: purpose technologies.
Speaker 11: The history of.
Speaker 18: Humanity, We've had maybe twenty twenty two of these, electricity,
Speaker 18: the printing press, and when that happens, leaders start realizing
Speaker 18: that that technology becomes critical.
Speaker 11: To national progress.
Speaker 18: And so that's what I heard from President Macron and
Speaker 18: Prime Minister Modi. The summit was co hosted by France
Speaker 18: and India, and I also heard from JD. Vance at
Speaker 18: the summit that the United States believes that now staying
Speaker 18: at the frontier of AI infrastructure and making sure that
Speaker 18: open source is competitive. American open source is competitive, Allied
Speaker 18: open sources competitive with the best models coming out of
Speaker 18: any country, including China.
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of China, when we have the biggest players,
Speaker 3: China and the US with kind of different values competing
Speaker 3: against each other. You've talked about what you call joint
Speaker 3: ventures between nations that perhaps don't have the resources on
Speaker 3: their own to compete in AI.
Speaker 4: Talk to us about that.
Speaker 18: Yeah, So one of the atomic units of AI is
Speaker 18: the data center, right, because if you sort of look
Speaker 18: at the history or the ingredients of how we got
Speaker 18: the current deep learning wave, there's really three or four
Speaker 18: of them. There's compute, there's data, there's algorithms, and there's regulation,
Speaker 18: and so when it comes to compute, the idea is
Speaker 18: that there are only some regions that have enough compute
Speaker 18: and access to the power that's cost competitive to stay
Speaker 18: at the frontier. I call these hypercenters. We clearly have
Speaker 18: at least two hyper centers now in the world today.
Speaker 18: We've got America and we've got China, and I think
Speaker 18: every other major nation is now hitting a reckoning point
Speaker 18: where they're trying to figure out do they build, do
Speaker 18: they buy, or do they partner? And so I think
Speaker 18: I'm quite bullish on the US and her allies teaming
Speaker 18: up across what we call the infrastructure stack. Right, so
Speaker 18: when you at the lowest level, you've got chips, and
Speaker 18: then you get into models, and then you've got applications,
Speaker 18: And I think it's going to be much more likely
Speaker 18: that countries that aren't hyper centers today pick which hyper
Speaker 18: center they matches their value system the most, and then
Speaker 18: they work on joint mentors across the stack, because I
Speaker 18: think it's it's quite unlikely that people reinvent the chip
Speaker 18: stack for them. They're much more likely to partner with
Speaker 18: a country that does match their value system and I
Speaker 18: think clearly in France, America, France and India we're teaming up.
Speaker 2: You're on mis Trile's board.
Speaker 5: We were hearing from after a little bit ago CEO
Speaker 5: of Miss Trial and so as France got it right now,
Speaker 5: is that going to become a center in some way
Speaker 5: they're committing to their own infrastructure build out or they
Speaker 5: ultimately have to depend on the US at least CHIPS
Speaker 5: for example.
Speaker 18: So the zeitgeist has definitely changed. I think from the
Speaker 18: last two summits, you know, the first that was in
Speaker 18: Seoul and the last one which was in Bletchley Park
Speaker 18: in the UK, the overarching theme was one of pessimism.
Speaker 18: You know, AI is really risky, We've got to think
Speaker 18: about the downside. And instead, what I heard this time
Speaker 18: from leaders across the EU, by the way, not just France,
Speaker 18: was the idea of optimism that AI actually can unlock
Speaker 18: massive growth for Europe and for America. And I think
Speaker 18: that France is in the middle of figuring out how
Speaker 18: to accelerate its infrastructure. I think they have a huge
Speaker 18: headstart when it comes to nucleared option, but when it
Speaker 18: comes to data center construction, they're clearly behind the United States,
Speaker 18: and they're happy to accelerate permitting and construction, and at
Speaker 18: the same time they're happy to work with American chip
Speaker 18: companies like Nvidia to actually rack and stack frontier chips
Speaker 18: in these data centers. So I think you're going to
Speaker 18: see over the long term Europe start to accelerate. But
Speaker 18: in the short term, I think they're going to partner
Speaker 18: with folks like America.
Speaker 5: And the administration is cool with that because you have
Speaker 5: close proximity to the administration with A sixteen and Z
Speaker 5: and at the same time doesn't see relations are at
Speaker 5: their highest moment right now.
Speaker 18: Well, look, the best thing about this administration is they
Speaker 18: share everything very publicly. I think JD was very clear
Speaker 18: in his speech at in Europe that we're putting America
Speaker 18: first and we will partner and help our allies too.
Speaker 18: And you know, NATO is a huge priority for America,
Speaker 18: and so I think we'll just continue seeing more investments
Speaker 18: in NATO alliances.
Speaker 3: And Jason Horowitz was an early investor in on open AI,
Speaker 3: and you're also on the board of Mistral. I'm just
Speaker 3: curious what do you make of this feud between elon
Speaker 3: Musk and open AI. Does it have broader implications for
Speaker 3: the progress for other players in the space.
Speaker 18: Definitely, you know, ultimately where the frontier goes has implications
Speaker 18: for all of us. But I think the important thing
Speaker 18: to focus on is that, you know, just a year ago,
Speaker 18: there were lots of folks who are confidently testifying in
Speaker 18: front of Congress that America was so far ahead of
Speaker 18: China that China could never catch up. And I think
Speaker 18: what we're seeing is one the gap between.
Speaker 11: Open source and closed source has narrowed.
Speaker 18: That's something those of us in the open source community
Speaker 18: have been paying attention have known for a while, but
Speaker 18: more importantly that the gap between America and China has
Speaker 18: narrowed as well. It's incredibly fast. You know, one, which
Speaker 18: is one of the most cutting edge models from open Ei,
Speaker 18: came out on December fifth, and barely a month and
Speaker 18: a half later is when deep Scar one came out
Speaker 18: January twenty fifth, and it's comparable. And so I think
Speaker 18: the more important dynamic to pay attention to is that
Speaker 18: that gap has closed, especially between America and any adversarial
Speaker 18: nations that aren't in our alliances like NATO.
Speaker 3: What about Elon Musk's influence in Washington, do you think
Speaker 3: that could have broader implications for other AI players in
Speaker 3: the space.
Speaker 18: Oh absolutely, you know, I think Elon is an important voice.
Speaker 18: But I think the reality is that we are reaching
Speaker 18: a state of disequilibrium in AI infrastructure where a lot
Speaker 18: of basic assumptions that people had taken for granted are
Speaker 18: being revisited, like the gap narrowing bit in open and
Speaker 18: closed between America and other countries. And so I think
Speaker 18: there are a number of voices, especially in the open
Speaker 18: source community obviously, you know, you just played a great
Speaker 18: clip from Arthur Mensh, who was.
Speaker 11: The CEO of Mistral. I think there are other.
Speaker 18: Important voices like Jon Stoyka, who's a professor at UC
Speaker 18: Berkeley who has been leading an effort called ELMSIS that
Speaker 18: works on AI model evaluations. And I think those kinds
Speaker 18: of voices are also becoming much more important to nation
Speaker 18: state leaders. So I'm just really glad that at the
Speaker 18: highest levels frontier AI and especially open source HEREA is
Speaker 18: getting a lot of attention, Tony.
Speaker 5: It's getting a lot of politicization as well.
Speaker 2: And how comfortable and uncomfortable does that make you know?
Speaker 5: I've sat down with David Ulovitch a couple of weeks
Speaker 5: ago we were talking about American dynamism within this new administration. Then,
Speaker 5: of course there's a relatively politicized hire rightly along wrongly
Speaker 5: whether it was politicized of course, mister Penny becoming a
Speaker 5: deal partner. Of course, mister Penny, twenty six year old
Speaker 5: was well known for having had an incident on the
Speaker 5: subway here in New York and ultimately led to the
Speaker 5: death as someone who's homeless.
Speaker 2: And there was a read on that higher. How are
Speaker 2: you feeling.
Speaker 5: About the cultural impact and the perspective of the culture
Speaker 5: at a sixteen Z this has.
Speaker 11: Yeah, look taking a step back.
Speaker 18: I think one of the things that's always said a
Speaker 18: sixteen z apart is just how strongly the firm believes
Speaker 18: in its values, right, and so in the case of
Speaker 18: open source AI, for example, I think the firm is
Speaker 18: taken a very clear position that.
Speaker 11: We believe open source.
Speaker 18: The history of computing infrastructure is shown that open source
Speaker 18: is critical to unlocking massive amounts of productivity for humanity
Speaker 18: and for society. You know, when you look at storage, networking, compute,
Speaker 18: and so on. I think a lot of the productivity
Speaker 18: we've seen from software comes from a value system and
Speaker 18: a philosophy and a belief that democratizing access to the
Speaker 18: best technology, put in control of that technology in the
Speaker 18: hands of the biggest companies and organizations is what pushes
Speaker 18: technology forward.
Speaker 11: And so you know, while I'm not.
Speaker 18: An expert on American dynamism, and I'm sure you can
Speaker 18: get better opinions from my partner David on that, I
Speaker 18: think the more important thing to notice is that the
Speaker 18: firm just stands by its values and its philosophy is
Speaker 18: very aggressively.
Speaker 5: Thanks for articulating that. As NITA, it's great to have
Speaker 5: some time with you on the future of AI and
Speaker 5: regulation and throughout General partner Andrewsen and Horowitz Jackie.
Speaker 3: Coming up by Now pay Later firm Klarna has added
Speaker 3: to JP Morgan's payment platform. Clarna CEO joined us to
Speaker 3: discuss what it means for the startups future.
Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 5: Robin Hood reported revenue that more than doubled as the
Speaker 5: online trading firm was buoyed by crypto market transactions around
Speaker 5: the US presidential election. Here's what CEO just had to
Speaker 5: say on Bloomberg's open interest.
Speaker 17: They can listen a lot of people focus on crypto
Speaker 17: and we're certainly going to be in a more innovation
Speaker 17: friendly environment in crypto. I think that's going to be
Speaker 17: a tailwind for our business as one of the few
Speaker 17: scaled players in both crypto and traditional financial assets.
Speaker 3: Buy now, pay later provider Klarna has been added to
Speaker 3: JP Morgan's payment platform. The Swedish spin tech company has
Speaker 3: been expanding partnership deals in recent months, and it's targeting
Speaker 3: a USIPO later this year. The company CEO Sebastian Schimankowski
Speaker 3: joins US. Now, Okay, let's talk about this partnership because
Speaker 3: it's a major US bank, and I want you to
Speaker 3: quantify the upside of this for for US. How much
Speaker 3: of a boost in revenue does this mean for Klarna?
Speaker 16: Well, you know, time will tell, but I mean, obviously
Speaker 16: from our perspective, JP Morgan is one of the you know,
Speaker 16: it is probably the largest payments company in the world.
Speaker 16: They actually do two trillion dollars worth of volume, and
Speaker 16: so for Klona that does one hundred billion dollar on
Speaker 16: an annual basis. You know, even if we if we're
Speaker 16: super successful with them and can get five to ten
Speaker 16: percent of that volume on the time, that's obviously a
Speaker 16: massive opportunity so we'll find out. It's always you know,
Speaker 16: big orkanship like this. You announce them and then it
Speaker 16: takes some times because there are systems, integrations, promotions and
Speaker 16: stuff like that. But we're very, very excited about it
Speaker 16: and super proud of the fact that Tip Morgan decided
Speaker 16: to work with us.
Speaker 5: But they might decide to work with other by now
Speaker 5: high later players.
Speaker 2: Is that an issue the competition?
Speaker 16: No, I mean I think, look, they work with both Visa,
Speaker 16: MasterCard and Amex, and I think like the next generation
Speaker 16: of companies that you see on the screen here, they
Speaker 16: are kind of the next generation. We think of ourselves
Speaker 16: as a third party network, and I think there will
Speaker 16: obviously be others as well, so there will be others,
Speaker 16: but we're very happy to be first to announce this
Speaker 16: partnership with them.
Speaker 5: And let's talk about that third party focus and these partnerships, Sebastian,
Speaker 5: because I know you can't talk too much about an IPO.
Speaker 5: You've got a lot of investors to convince of the
Speaker 5: ultimate valuation of your company. When you're signing up merchants
Speaker 5: but not having a direct relationship, just tell us about
Speaker 5: the value that that has.
Speaker 16: No, for sure, I mean Klana have historically signed up
Speaker 16: merchants directly, and that's brought us to about six hundred
Speaker 16: thousand versions. Then took a closer look at like, I mean,
Speaker 16: maybe the most successful expansion of a third party network
Speaker 16: was Amis in the last two three decades, which went
Speaker 16: from you know, being something you only used at restaurants
Speaker 16: and hotels to being, you know, something you can use everywhere.
Speaker 16: And so it's all about acceptance points. And we realize
Speaker 16: that that's not going to happen by our own machine.
Speaker 16: That can only happen to these amazing partnerships with Stripe
Speaker 16: and the Addings of the world and the world Pace
Speaker 16: and the Jping Mormons of the world and so forth.
Speaker 16: So so we're super happy about this. It gives us,
Speaker 16: you know, access to millions and millions of immersions to
Speaker 16: make Klana acceptable. I mean in the US, still a
Speaker 16: lot of people that associate us primarily with binapulator, but
Speaker 16: like thirty percent, thirty percent of our volume is paying
Speaker 16: fold the full amount.
Speaker 11: We offer all types of payment forms.
Speaker 16: So we think about ourselves as a third party network,
Speaker 16: and Visa Mascot and the others need some competition.
Speaker 3: Let's stay in the US for a minute Sebastian because
Speaker 3: here the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau its features in question.
Speaker 3: Now that it's kind of come within striking distance of
Speaker 3: Elon musk Stoge, is this a good thing for Klarina?
Speaker 16: Well, I mean, look, I think we are based in Europe,
Speaker 16: where there's very tough regulation, much tougher in any ways.
Speaker 16: I mean, it was actually funny the only thing Trump
Speaker 16: said that was for more regulation was to cut credit
Speaker 16: card interest rate fees, which to me kind of make
Speaker 16: sense because you know, a lot of markets we operate
Speaker 16: in Europe, you will see like max interest rate card
Speaker 16: can be like at sixteen percent or eighteen percent, right,
Speaker 16: while in US is very very different. So I think
Speaker 16: you could expect from this administration to go quite some
Speaker 16: tough challenges to the banks. But I think the best
Speaker 16: way is going to be more competition, and to some degree,
Speaker 16: you know, less regulation can help to accelerate more competition
Speaker 16: and to go after those success profits that we've seen
Speaker 16: in the banking industry. So I think that the you know,
Speaker 16: we are have always operated according to regulatory requirements, but
Speaker 16: also in addition to that, we have always said that,
Speaker 16: like the ethical standards are extremely important for us and
Speaker 16: to make sure that we provide services that are priced
Speaker 16: reasonably for consumers, that we don't charge too high interest
Speaker 16: or too high fees and so forth, and that's going
Speaker 16: to continue being an objective for us, either CFPB is
Speaker 16: present or not.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, real quickly, Sebastian, what about crypto You
Speaker 3: called it a decentralized Ponzi scheme in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4: Has that changed? Is Karna planning?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Please?
Speaker 11: I was happy you brought that up.
Speaker 16: Well, I actually this this weekend after thanks to my
Speaker 16: board member Andrew from Sequoia, I met with a few
Speaker 16: very interesting crypto companies and after listening to them and
Speaker 16: what's happening with crypto, stable coins, bitcoins, I did a
Speaker 16: small tweet this weekend that said that like, okay, I
Speaker 16: give up, it's time to explore crypto for Klana. And
Speaker 16: I thought that, like everyone would be just sighing and
Speaker 16: thinking it was the most boring news ever because it
Speaker 16: feels like we're the last large fintech in the world
Speaker 16: to say that. But I had over a million views,
Speaker 16: so people are super engaged. The whole community open up
Speaker 16: and I got like one thousands ideas of what we're
Speaker 16: going to do so, I'm excited about that.
Speaker 11: Now happy you know sometimes you're wrong.
Speaker 2: Come back and talk with AI with us as well.
Speaker 5: Soon we've run out of time, plan to CEO Sebastian
Speaker 5: showing Kowski.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for the time.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 5: That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology, Jackie,
Speaker 5: don't forget your audience can go and check.
Speaker 4: Out our podcast.
Speaker 5: You can find on the terminal as well as online
Speaker 5: on Apple, Spotify.
Speaker 2: And iHeart. This is Bloomberg Technology.