1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: On this episode of the New World, I'm talking with 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: retired Secret Service agents Bill living Goood and Jerry Beckdel 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: and I wanted to get their expertise to discuss what 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: happened on Saturday, July thirteenth in Butler, Pennsylvania with former 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: President Donald Trump's assassination attempt. I should say in advance 6 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: that for me, this is a great opportunity to talk 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: with an old friend, Bill living Good, who we brought 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: in when I was Speaker from the Secret Service, made 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: him the Sergeant Arms for the House, and he modernized 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: the Capitol police force in a way which was just 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: astounding when I would say, probably the most successful person 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: of anybody that I appointed as Speaker. So it's great 13 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: for me to be back with Bill and with Jerry. 14 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,559 Speaker 1: Let me start and ask each of you just to 15 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: give our audience an understanding of the depth of experience 16 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: that we're bringing to this conversation. If each of you 17 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: could discuss your careers. Bill, could you sort of give 18 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: us a background with the Secret Service? And then the 19 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: sergeant at arms. 20 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: Yes, sir, I was a Secret Service agent after I 21 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: graduated from college at Michigan State and Criminal Justice Program, 22 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: where I'd also been a police officer in a town 23 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: called Saugatuck, Michigan. And I came into the Secret Service 24 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 2: and I spent thirty four years there and really loved 25 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: every second. I really enjoyed the Secret Service because they 26 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: were a very straight agency. They want you to do 27 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: the best. They gave the opportunity to do the best, 28 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: and they trusted you, and I trusted them. And at 29 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 2: the Secret Service, you got the best out of every 30 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: man and woman that I worked with, and it was 31 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: really fantastic. I had a lot of trust in them, 32 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: a lot of faith I still do. And I spent 33 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: thirty four years in the Secret Service, and then I 34 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 2: retired and I went to the US Capital and was 35 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: hired by Speaker Newt Gingridge. And what a time did 36 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: I have. I spent seventeen years at the Capitol. I 37 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: thought i'd only stayed maybe a year or two. I 38 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: ended up a lot more than that. I really enjoyed 39 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: that and I learned a lot. I got a lot 40 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 2: of good cooperation from the members. As sergeant at arms, 41 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 2: and it was really really a great position. I had 42 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 2: the Capitol police, I had some of the investigations, and 43 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 2: I had the overall security obviously of the House side 44 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: of the Capitol, and worked with the Senate. Started in 45 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: our arms. It was a good friend of mine, and 46 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 2: we really accomplished a lot. And I'm going to have 47 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 2: to say this, it's the reason I think I enjoyed 48 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 2: it so much. I got the cooperation because of Speaker Gingridge, 49 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 2: and I got the cooperation of all the members, Republican 50 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: and Democrat. It didn't matter, it did not matter. We 51 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 2: were non political, and we did things for the right 52 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 2: reason and to make the capital better. And that was 53 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: quite an honor. And that's why I really enjoyed the 54 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: US Capitol. And actually, I believe it or not, I 55 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: miss it. 56 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: I can personally testify that both the degree to which 57 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: you professionalized what had really not been a very professional 58 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: group in the Capitol. Honest guys, well meaning guys, but 59 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: they had nothing like the discipline and the doctrine that 60 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: you brought in. And then the fact that while we 61 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: were together we had really significant problems. We had September eleventh, 62 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: right after I left, we had the anthrax scares, and 63 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: we had the nineteen ninety eight shootings of two US 64 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: Capitol police officers. I mean, you were there for some 65 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: significant activities. You made a huge difference qualitatively which has 66 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: continued to this day in creating a professional police force. Jerry, 67 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: what was your background with the Secret Service? 68 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 3: Well, Irishman. I graduated the University of Maryland in nineteen 69 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 3: sixty After a short term in the Army, I was 70 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 3: hired in nineteen sixty two as a special agent. Worked 71 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 3: my way up through the ranks and I think worked 72 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 3: through the President Kennedy assassination. I was on the job 73 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 3: two assassination attempts of Vice President Ford and one assassination 74 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 3: attempt on President Reagan. My headquarters, I had more experience there. 75 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 3: I was the Deputy Assistant Director for Protective Operations, which 76 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 3: oversaw all protective details presidents, vice president, etc. Then I 77 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 3: went into the Office of Inspection, where we'd look at 78 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 3: the internal affairs, what the agents are doing, what an 79 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 3: organization detail is doing. We inspected them at least every 80 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 3: three years and make sure procedures were being followed. And 81 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 3: retired in nineteen eighty six as the deputy director. So 82 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 3: what I can add to the conversation and what I'd 83 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 3: like to say, I've made no contact whatsoever with any 84 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 3: member of the present Service. I had a son that retired. 85 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 3: He wouldn't tell me if my pants were on fire. 86 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 3: So I think the Service is very quiet about what 87 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 3: they do because of the nature of what they do, 88 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 3: and in regards to the director, And I don't know 89 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 3: whether you want me to say it, but I'm going 90 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 3: to say it. I believe she would have retired, sir, 91 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 3: but I think she was holding on to get all 92 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,799 Speaker 3: the facts known about everything that took place there in Butler, PA. 93 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 3: And if we were wrong, I think she would have 94 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 3: admitted it and then retired. But I think she just 95 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 3: held out as long as she could to make sure 96 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 3: that the investigation was complete and all the facts are known. 97 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 3: That's just me making new statements. 98 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: There sometimes because you mentioned your son. Also an end 99 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: of the service. What kind of training does a Secret 100 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: Service agent go through? 101 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 3: Bill? 102 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 2: If you want to address that, they do an awful 103 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 2: lot of training, bookwork. They go to Beltsville, Maryland. And 104 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: I happen to have been the assistant director of training 105 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: for some time. We bring people in to help train them, 106 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: and then we use our own people, and I think 107 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 2: the level of training is extremely high, high level. And 108 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: you see the difference when these young men and women 109 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 2: finish their training. It's not only academically, well, it's everything 110 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 2: the Secret Service does. And then it's a lot of 111 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: physical and practice. For instance, you saw how the agents 112 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 2: moved the president during the assassination attempt to a vehicle. 113 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: Let's take him to the hospital. We practiced that time 114 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: after time after time, and all type of movements we 115 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: practice and it's an honor having been there. And then 116 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: there's a lot of physical training and firearms. It's an experience. 117 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 3: Well, if I could just interject to prior to the 118 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 3: Secret Service training, the new agents are sent down to Glencoe, Georgia, 119 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 3: where they're given basically the function of Homeland Security. They're 120 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 3: therewith agents of Homeland Security, Customs, Border Patrol, you name it. 121 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 3: Anyone that's entitled for basic training in Glencoe. And then 122 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: every individual agent, no matter who they're with, goes back 123 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 3: to their own agency. And that's where Bill interjected our 124 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 3: Beltsville training, that's strictly Secret Service training. The ladies and 125 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 3: gentlemen go all type of operations. And to jump ahead, 126 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: if you're on a detail, by that I mean the 127 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 3: President's detail or the vice President's detail, we call a 128 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 3: fourth ship. What that is you have the midnight to 129 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: eight shift, you have the four to twelve shift, and 130 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 3: the eight to four shift. They operate every two weeks, 131 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 3: and then there's a fourth shift that is involved, and 132 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 3: that is nothing but training. You'll go through weapons training, 133 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 3: You'll go through first aid training. It's a individual two 134 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 3: week training that every agent on the detail goes through. 135 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: Somehow, out of all that you create in a spree 136 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: decorps and a sense of having to meet the standard 137 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: and having to be focused in the tents, that is 138 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: really quite remarkable, and I think the Secret Services generally 139 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: one of the most admired organizations. I have to ask 140 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: a question which I shouldn't know the answer, and I don't. 141 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: Wasn't the Secret Service originally in the Treasury? 142 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: Yes, sir, that's correct, and believe it or not. I 143 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 3: just commented to Bill when Director Ray was giving his testimony, 144 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 3: and he commented on the anniversary of the FBI one 145 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 3: hundred and ten years or whatever, and it's interesting to 146 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 3: note that five Secret Service agents started the FBI. It 147 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 3: was then known as the Bureau of Investigation. Five agents 148 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 3: were transferred from the Treasury to Justice and they formed 149 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 3: then the Bureau of Investigation. And then mister Hoover came 150 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: along and he then made it the Federal Bureau of Investigation. 151 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 3: But interestingly enough, five agents started the FBI. 152 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: From that standpoint, I Americ correctly was founded during the 153 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: Civil War largely to go after counterfeiting. 154 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, Congress thought we were getting too big for riches. 155 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 3: They took us away. I think it was the teapot 156 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 3: dome scandal and they said, wait a minute, the service 157 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 3: is getting too big. Let's break away some of this stuff. 158 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 3: And that was the formation of the FBI. 159 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: Yep okay. And so do you still have counterfeiting as 160 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: part of your assignment or is that now back in treasure. 161 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 3: Yes, sir, And roughly the latest figures that I think 162 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 3: probably sixty seventy percent of the counter fitting taking place 163 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 3: is done overseas. I would think an agent today here 164 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 3: the secret serves wouldn't know a Japanese yen, just like 165 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 3: the foreigners over there wouldn't know account for a twenty 166 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 3: dollars bill. So most of it is taking place over 167 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 3: in Europe now, but it's still an ongoing investigation along 168 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 3: with major credit card fraud, bank fraud, you name it. 169 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: There's a working agreement between the FBI and the Secret 170 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 3: serves as to who gets called first. 171 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: But you guys grew up in essence and operated in 172 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 1: an institution that really had two different hats. One is 173 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: a protection hat and the other is a crime hat. 174 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: With I think all the public focus being on your protective. 175 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 2: Role, that is correct. I think you're right, And of. 176 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: Course the most famous part of that is protecting the president. 177 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: I mean the movies that have been made, if Clint 178 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: Eastwood did one, there've been a whole bunch of movies 179 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: that focus around the Secret Service and its protective role. 180 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: Both of you know from your own experience, how tans 181 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: and how focused when you saw what happened in Butler, 182 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: were you surprised or was there anything that initially stopped you? 183 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 3: The thing that shocked me the most is the after effect. 184 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 3: How did the gentlemen get on the roof without certain response? 185 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 3: And I think those are the questions that the committees 186 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 3: are asking up on the hill. And I just would 187 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:32,119 Speaker 3: like to say I would hope that someday a commission 188 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 3: is formed made up of experts. I'm not knocking down 189 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 3: the senators or the congressman, sir, It's just that professionals 190 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 3: should be the ones that are doing this review. They 191 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 3: know the questions to ask Bill and I as investigators. 192 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 3: That's what we were trained to do, investigate. And you 193 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 3: know you have people that say, well, this is what 194 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 3: we did. Well. I think we have the knowledge and 195 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 3: wherewithal to say, Okay, what did you see beforehand? What 196 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 3: did you see after? Who did you port? Two, etc. 197 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 3: These are the things that I would like to know 198 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 3: right now. And I know Director Cheatle has said the 199 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: FBI has an ongoing investigation, and I heard Director Ray 200 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 3: say there's an ongoing investigation, and I agree with both 201 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 3: of them. Let's get the facts out. I'm a reminder 202 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 3: of the old Joe Friday Dragnet show. Just the facts, man, 203 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 3: That's all I want, just the facts. 204 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: We can take this incident and break into kind of 205 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: three parts. One is before the shots are fired, what happened? 206 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: How did the guy get up on the roof? The 207 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: second is the turmoil right around the shots, and then 208 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: the third is the reaction to the shots and the 209 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: elimination of the would be assassin. Let me start with 210 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: this whole question of how did they end up with 211 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: a roof that was uncovered? I mean, did that surprise 212 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: you that they would not have had somebody up there 213 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: or somebody in another roof watching it. 214 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 2: That's one of the questions we had. That's it here, 215 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: Jerry and I. What happened or how did they get 216 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 2: on that roof and what transpired? Who was in the 217 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 2: building and how did they get up onto the roof? 218 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 3: Which way? 219 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 1: It struck me as very odd. I think there were 220 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: two people in the building. 221 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 3: That's the part that's correct. That's the part that were 222 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 3: they ordered there by the service? Meaning this is your 223 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 3: area of responsibility that building? Because what we saw, we 224 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 3: saw a picture overlooking that roof, and if that was 225 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 3: their responsibility to guard or look over that roof, okay, 226 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 3: But then when the report came of a suspicious person, 227 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,719 Speaker 3: I think they're two of those officers left that. Now 228 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 3: the big thing is were they supposed to stay there 229 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 3: and watch the roof? That's an unanswered question, but that's 230 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 3: one that I would ask. Why were they into building 231 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 3: and what was their responsibility? And who ordered it? Were 232 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 3: they ordered by the service to stay there or who knows? 233 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 3: It could have been, Hey, we're inside because it's one 234 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 3: hundred degrees outside and wanted to cool off a little bit. 235 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 3: But from their viewpoint, they had a perfect view of 236 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 3: that roof. And if they had stayed there, I'm not 237 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: blaming them, but it's obvious if they had stayed there, 238 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 3: they probably would have seen the assassin. But unfortunately someone 239 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 3: said there's a suspicious person outside. I think they went 240 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 3: out to look for that suspicious person and they lost them, 241 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 3: and that person then got on the roof, and then 242 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 3: probably someone pointed out there's a man on the roof, 243 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 3: and that's how the one fellow got up there, look 244 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 3: had the weapon pointed at him. You have to talk 245 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 3: to them to find out was their responsibility inside that 246 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 3: building and what happened when they saw him on the roof. 247 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 3: What happened? 248 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,359 Speaker 2: One thing I forgot to say, I think which affected 249 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 2: me personally. As Jerry said he protected for presidents, I 250 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: protected also for presidents and headed up President Bush, the father. 251 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 2: I was in charge of his detail for the entire time. 252 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 2: And did I learn a lot? I mean, just because 253 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 2: of all the movements we add And I think that 254 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 2: meant a lot to me in my life and in 255 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 2: my career in the Secret Service. 256 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 3: And your question, mister speaker, leads to another one, and 257 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 3: I don't mean to take you off of your schedule there, 258 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: but we do have a counter sniper team there. I 259 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 3: say team because I don't know whether they had two 260 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: or three teams. Part of their responsibility and that's the 261 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 3: uniform division. They will go out and they will do 262 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 3: a survey of the various buildings at that site. They 263 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 3: will speak to the manager of that building, tell them 264 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 3: to secure the building, make sure windows close, any activity 265 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 3: that is suspicious to him, they will let him know, 266 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 3: please call us. So that's where it comes in. The 267 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 3: sniper may have surveyed that building and he may have 268 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 3: determined that that is the building I'm primarily interested in. 269 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 3: You hear a lot about the water tower. Well, maybe 270 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 3: as far as the counter sniper supervisor may have said, 271 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 3: wait a minute, that's why it opened. We could very 272 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 3: easily see the water tower. We don't have a problem there. 273 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 3: Maybe the one we should focus in on is the 274 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 3: building where the assassin was. I don't know, but that's 275 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 3: an answer that I would have towards the counter sniper team. 276 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 3: Did they have that in view? And I think at 277 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 3: some point in time they must have had it in 278 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 3: view when it was reported a suspicious person, and particularly 279 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 3: when it was reported someone's on the roof. The big 280 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 3: thing I would have to ask the question again is 281 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 3: who told who about a man on the roof? Did 282 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 3: they report it back to the service? How was it reported? 283 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 3: Who did it? Let's get some factual information. 284 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: Which sort of makes your point that we need a 285 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: professional commission of the kind of people who know how 286 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: to ask those kind of questions. 287 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 3: I'm glad you said that, mister speaker, because it's going 288 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 3: to take someone like yourself. I think that it's just 289 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 3: going to make it known you need a professional, professional group. 290 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 3: And I'm not knocking the senators or the congressman asking 291 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 3: these questions, but a professional knows how to get the 292 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 3: truth from a suspect and or defendant. And I'm not 293 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 3: saying any of the witnesses, the police officer, the counter staper, 294 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 3: members of the detail, they're not suspect. You just want 295 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 3: the answers from them, and I hope they give them. 296 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 2: Yes, and they will. 297 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: You're just trying to put together a step by step 298 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: understanding without rendering judgment. I mean, you first have to 299 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: figure out what actually was happening and why it's interesting 300 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: given the background you two have. I remember when President 301 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: Reagan was shot, which was a different environment and a 302 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: different kind of gun. The reaction of the Service is 303 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: surrounding him and literally I think piling on top of 304 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: him in the car to make sure nobody else could 305 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: shoot him, was in a sense parallel to what we 306 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: saw happen with President Trump, where the people of his 307 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: immediate group all came together around him to protect him, 308 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: risking literally their lives if there'd been a multiple sniper event. 309 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: Is that standard training, and you train yourselves that your 310 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: job is to come in training it. 311 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 2: I watched that closely that day, and that is exactly 312 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 2: what they had been taught, and they did an outstanding job. 313 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 3: I thought, I'll give you an example, mister speaker, from 314 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 3: the training perspective. You're out in Beltsville and there's all 315 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 3: kinds of scenarios the instructors give to you out there, 316 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 3: and one scenario is that the would be actor he 317 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 3: shot and an agent responds to him, and it would 318 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 3: be President says, get to that lady over there, she 319 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 3: was shot. Also, you know, make sure she getting first 320 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 3: aid and your train I hate to say it, the 321 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 3: heck with that lady. Your job is the president. That 322 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 3: lady may die and it's unfortunate. But your job is 323 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 3: protect the president, and you are verbally you're criticized if 324 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 3: you made any move towards that lady. Your job is 325 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 3: the president and that is it. You will stay with 326 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 3: the president, and that's what his detail is meant to do. 327 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 3: I'm not going to say how many men are there, 328 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 3: but you can picture the follow up car. They contain agents. 329 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 3: Those are the agents that you'll always see around him, 330 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 3: physically around him. Then you have the posts standers. They're 331 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 3: the guys and young ladies that are out there in 332 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 3: the crowd doing whatever their responsibilities are. 333 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: I thought it'd be useful, guys to just hear the audio. 334 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: You see the agent's moving, working as a team, talking 335 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: to each other. 336 00:19:50,000 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 4: Let's go in and play it there. 337 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 2: Hold already on you ready, woody? Are you ready? Good? 338 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: Shooters down, I'll be good to move. 339 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 4: We're care. 340 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 3: Come. Let me get my speed, I got you, Let 341 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 3: me get my shoes. Hold on your head, bloody, so 342 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 3: we gotta go to the bus. 343 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 4: Let me get. 344 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 3: So. 345 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 4: Let's tell me. 346 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 1: What impresses me is there has to be kind of 347 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: an emotional level of chaos. You those opening ninety seconds, 348 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: I mean people have to really have been well trained 349 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: to automatically do what they're supposed to do. 350 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 3: I would say, on all the assassination attempts, the agent's 351 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 3: reaction just unbelievable. I was amazed, and I would equate 352 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 3: it to mister Hill jumping on the back of the 353 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 3: limousine with President Kennedy's assassination, pushing Missus Kennedy back in 354 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 3: the car. How he got to that back of the car, 355 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 3: I couldn't tell you. And in Butler, that agent responding, 356 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 3: if you're looking at it, the president in front of you, 357 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 3: that agent that runs from offstage, that is amazing. He 358 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 3: had to have heard a shot and reacted, and he 359 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 3: got there before any other agent responded. How he did that, 360 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 3: it is amazing. He had the reflexes of an old 361 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 3: basketball player, which I am myself, but his reflexes just unbelievable, unbelievable. 362 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 2: I was very proud of them on that movement. 363 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: I think the whole country agrees that the people right 364 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: around the president were astonishing. 365 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 3: Frankly, but that doesn't excuse, sir, that a mistake was 366 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 3: made somewhere. Let's find out that mistake about what took 367 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 3: place when that shooter was confronted and the information passed, 368 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 3: How was it passed and was it given to the 369 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 3: agent in charge? Those questions need to be asked. 370 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 2: That is a huge crowd that was there, and everybody 371 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 2: was yelling and screaming. But the Secret Service agency that 372 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 2: I observed, and I did it purposely because I wanted 373 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 2: to report back what they did or didn't do. I 374 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 2: was very impressed with. 375 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 3: And everyone or certain people may have a question why 376 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 3: it took so long to get them off the stage. 377 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 3: I would say, you have to have what's going on 378 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 3: at that point in time. They're evaluating that wound. You 379 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 3: get a ten minute medicine course in training how to 380 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 3: keep them alive for ten minutes. Well, thankfully this was 381 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 3: I won't want to say a minor, but it was 382 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 3: a minor injury. He was down laying below. They're going 383 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 3: over him, making sure that he's not injured any place 384 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 3: else and trying to treat that wound. So that was 385 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 3: why maybe they were laying there for a good little 386 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 3: pit before they removed him. They were going over his wound, 387 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 3: the same as Jerry Parr did with President Reagan, going 388 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 3: over his body to make sure where you hit where 389 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 3: you hit what's going on? Fortunately, Jerry saw the octygenated blood, 390 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 3: so he knew there was a lung wound somewhere. Now 391 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 3: with President Trump, I'm sure they were doing the same 392 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 3: thing where you hurt. Is it other than the ear? 393 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 3: So that was why that paused. Why they're laying down there. 394 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 2: And they were making arrangements to get into a. 395 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: You know, and the air produces a lot of blood, 396 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: so there has to be a brief moment there where 397 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: the agents immediately engaged are looking at former president whose 398 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: face is getting pretty bloody. I mean that has to 399 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 1: be a pretty sobering moment. 400 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 2: Oh definitely. 401 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 3: And believe me, sir, you'll see that if it ever 402 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 3: comes out, Like on a training exercise at Beltsville, you'll 403 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 3: have people wearing little body packs with the ketchup so 404 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 3: to speak. You know, when the round is fired and bingo, 405 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 3: that individual acting is he presses that and that ketchup's 406 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 3: flying all over and it looks like he's bleeding, and 407 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 3: you know he's saying to you, go check that, lady, 408 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 3: Go check that lady. No, Sarah, I'm here to check you. 409 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 3: And that's what you're trained to do. Period. 410 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: That part they did very well, and during that part, 411 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: the counter sniper team was taking care of the attacker. 412 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: Tell me just for a minute, what's the difference between 413 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: the protective team and the tactical team. 414 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 3: The tactical team, Sarah, will consist of basically your counter sniper. 415 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 3: It will consist of I hate to get into this 416 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 3: side of it, but we do have a drone program 417 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 3: and an anti drone program. There's a way that they 418 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 3: can neutralize the drones, so that'll be part of the 419 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 3: tactical You have the communication side of it, which sets 420 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 3: up the communications at the site. There'll be a whole 421 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 3: radio set up, telephone communications. That'll be part of the 422 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 3: tactical side. The command post, right, don't confuse it. I 423 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 3: would say the easiest way to separate it is the 424 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 3: protective detail. That is the President's detail. They are assigned 425 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 3: there for a period of maybe three or four years. 426 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 3: They'll work those shifts every two weeks. They'll stand post 427 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 3: at the White House, they'll travel with the president wherever 428 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 3: he goes all three shifts. If it's an overnight, they 429 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 3: will do the actual physical protection of the president. The 430 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 3: other side of it is the post Sanders, the ones 431 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 3: that you'll call in for assistant like maybe in Butler, 432 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 3: they may have called in agents from Cleveland, from Charleston, 433 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: West Virginia, from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. If they said they needed 434 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 3: more help. That's where headquarters would say, we're sending them. 435 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 3: Here's where they're coming. When do you want them there? Okay, 436 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 3: and then they'll be part of the overall briefing. 437 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: One of the quest things, which is you have a 438 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: counter sniper team who I thought pretty non effective that day. 439 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: Is that a standard part of the package. 440 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 2: Yes, sir, it is for movements like that when they're 441 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 2: at rallies, large functions. 442 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 3: And it's his or her responsibility to survey that site 443 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 3: and determine maybe there's no need for the counter sniper team, 444 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 3: maybe there are no big buildings, but the sniper team 445 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 3: may stay there and survey the crowd through their telescopic 446 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 3: whatever have you. And part of that team, sir, is 447 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 3: they'll have a response team. If they see something that 448 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 3: is out of the ordinary on a building, they will 449 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 3: call the response team and say go check that out, 450 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,239 Speaker 3: and the response team will get back to them and say, oh, 451 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 3: it's nothing. He was an air conditioning guy working on 452 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 3: the air conditioning unit. But unfortunately things happened so quick 453 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 3: by the time this guy was identified with the rifle. Now, 454 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 3: what does the counter sniper team do. Boy, he's got 455 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 3: a matter of seconds. I don't know how many, but 456 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 3: he may have picked him up and said, Okay, do 457 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 3: I fire? And you know as well as I do. God, 458 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,479 Speaker 3: we never hear the end of it if he shoots 459 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 3: an inocient person, an air conditioning repairman on top of 460 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 3: a building. But he's made a decision that I got 461 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 3: to do something, and God forbid, he'll pay for it. 462 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they'll do it. 463 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: I thought the reaction time was pretty amazing in this 464 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: particular case. The director Cheadle said that it would take 465 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: sixty days to get a report. Is that pretty standard? 466 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: I mean, when you're dealing with something like this, and 467 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: I think the three of us are in agreement. We 468 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: need an investigation by professionals, not by politicians. How long 469 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: should that kind of investigation take? 470 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: In your judgment, sixty days is too long, sir, And 471 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 2: I think I'm just guessing now thirty days. 472 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 3: I would agree with Bill on that. And if I 473 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 3: was heading up in my old position that I was in, 474 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 3: the assistant director for our internal affairs. In all probability, 475 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 3: they're conducting an investigation right now, but I just fear 476 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 3: the stumbling blocks that are in the way by that. 477 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 3: I could picture somebody that is a key to this 478 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 3: thing and the investigation saying I'm not talking to nobody, 479 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 3: I want a lawyer because they're fearful that maybe they're 480 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 3: going to get sued by somebody. I could picture the 481 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 3: FBI doing what they're doing. We have an ongoing investigation, 482 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 3: and do they want to release anything too prematurely for 483 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,479 Speaker 3: fear that it's wrong. So you have all those stumbling blocks. 484 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 3: But I just wish, sir, that we had someone that 485 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 3: would just stand up and say, you know, enough is enough? 486 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 3: What have you found so far? And we'll straighten out 487 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 3: the errors later on. You say there were eight shells 488 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 3: up there, now we found there's dying. Well, we'll straighten 489 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 3: that out later on. Right now, let's investigate what we 490 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 3: need to investigate. How did the assassination attempt happen? And 491 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 3: I don't think it should take that long if everyone 492 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 3: was open. One thing I'd like to do, mister speaker, 493 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 3: if I could, I watched the hearings yesterday. I want 494 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 3: to compliment the commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police, Commissioner 495 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 3: of Paris. He was so forthcoming with information that no 496 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 3: one heard, and he had no reservations because he spoke 497 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 3: his part of what took place. Would I criticize the Bureau, 498 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 3: Would I criticize the Service? I think yes, but I 499 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 3: think they're being very careful what they can and what 500 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 3: they can't say. But this gentleman, the Commissioner of State Police, 501 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 3: I think was unbelievable, and I give him a lot 502 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 3: of credit. 503 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 2: I would agree with that he was excellent. But I 504 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 2: do think it can be cut short. I mean compared 505 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 2: to what sixty days, and I think it needs to 506 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 2: be because they're still out there. 507 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 3: And you know, Sir, better than either of us. The 508 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: committees that are held up on the hill, every organization, 509 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 3: Bureau of US, the Pennsylvania State Police, they kind of 510 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 3: have an idea of the questions and they say they 511 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 3: need more time. But unfortunately, I guess the committees have 512 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 3: a time schedule too. They want to get to it 513 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 3: right away, and maybe the organizations don't have the information 514 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 3: right away. And unfortunately the Bureau, the Secret Service, Pennsylvania 515 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 3: State but may be embarrassed, but they don't have the 516 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 3: answers at this time. I would agree much shorter. How 517 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 3: much time I don't know, but I would think thirty days. 518 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 3: And maybe the director was on the spot and had 519 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 3: to make an answer, so she throws out sixty days. 520 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 3: I think it was just something that she threw out. 521 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: One of the things. I was struck by her testimony 522 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: because she had been a professional. She's not just a 523 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,239 Speaker 1: political appointee, but she's somebody who actually had grown up 524 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: in the agency. She said that they currently have about 525 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: eight thousand agents nationally, but they really need ninety five hundred. 526 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: Do you get a sense when you talk to friends 527 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: who are so active that they are in fact stretched 528 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: pretty thin and the service just isn't big enough to 529 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: cover everything has been asked to do. 530 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 3: Let's look at the Uniform Division. That's an organization within 531 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 3: the Secret Service roughly now, and I'm only guessing the 532 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 3: latest figure that I knew, maybe twelve hundred and fifty. 533 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 3: And to say it, a part of that most of 534 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 3: them are college graduates. They're going to move on, They're 535 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 3: looking for better jobs. They don't want to stand post 536 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 3: at the White House or at an embassy eight hours 537 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 3: a day, and it isn't eight hours a day. I 538 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 3: can tell you that much. Right now, they're almost on 539 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 3: twelve hour shifts. So they're overworked. That's the uniform division 540 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 3: why because the people are leaving. They're leaving to go 541 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 3: get better jobs at the FBI, at State Department, at DEEA, 542 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 3: so they can be home at night maybe and only 543 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 3: work eight hours a day. Now. The same is true 544 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 3: for the agents. I can't tell you. Let's say if 545 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 3: I was in Butler, would if I have asked for 546 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 3: twenty five agents? Would I've asked for thirty five agents? 547 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 3: Would I ask for forty five? Because you give me 548 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 3: the agents and I'll protect it all the way to Pittsburgh. 549 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 3: But if I don't have the agents, I'm going to 550 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 3: do the best I can with what you've given me 551 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 3: and what I've asked for. And being in headquarters, that'll 552 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 3: come to the assistant director of Protective Operation. He's a 553 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 3: fellow that I would want to talk to because I'd say, 554 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 3: did you get a request for more agents? And did 555 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 3: you respond by getting the more agents? But the first 556 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 3: thing I would ask, being in protective operation, why do 557 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 3: you need them? Have you identified someplace that you think 558 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 3: you need them and you don't have the manpower. That's 559 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 3: the first thing, because you know as well as I do, 560 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 3: Congress is going to ask what are we doing with 561 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 3: all these agents? And unless we can tell them what 562 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 3: we're doing, why we have them, and the reason why 563 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 3: we have it's going to be a tough one. And 564 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 3: Headquarters does the same thing. But I'd look at the 565 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 3: assistant director and I'd say, where were you involved in 566 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 3: this program? Can you say the director was called at 567 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 3: home about the planning of Butler? I don't think so. 568 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 3: She may have been briefed, but my god, she's trying 569 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 3: to control the budget of three billion dollars, trying to 570 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 3: do the women hiring program, and is she involved in 571 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 3: the planning of Butler? I would say maybe, maybe, But 572 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 3: the assistant director is the one that's going to have 573 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 3: a handle on that. 574 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would agree with that entirely, having been 575 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 2: out there as an agent. 576 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: Let me ask you one last question, given both your 577 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: own experiences and of course Dury in your case, i'lso 578 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: your son's experience. If some young person came to you 579 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: today and said they were thinking about it, would you 580 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: encourage them to join the Secret Service. 581 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 2: Yes, sir, I would very definitely. 582 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 3: And Sir, I've tried myself with six grandchildren, and you 583 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 3: know the thing that comes up. I'd say, well this 584 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 3: and they say it's law enforcement. Oh my god, they're 585 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 3: liable to get shot while they're in the field office 586 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 3: or while they're on protective assignment. And then I respond 587 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 3: by saying, well, maybe they want to mature a little 588 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 3: bit and maybe join the military. And the first thing 589 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 3: I hear is, well, you know the military, My god, 590 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 3: that's war. So we don't want them to join the 591 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 3: military either, So I encourage them. I had a son, 592 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 3: did it. But by six grandkids, I don't think their 593 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 3: parents are interested in having, you know, their father being 594 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 3: away or their husband being away. I can remember with LBJ. Well, 595 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,280 Speaker 3: I'll use an example. I was assigned to George Wallace. 596 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 3: I didn't get home for six months. But that's no worse, sir, 597 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 3: than being in the military and being away from your 598 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 3: wife and family. God bless our military. God bless every 599 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 3: police officer who walks down that dark alley every day, 600 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 3: or you know, stop somebody in the car. They don't 601 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 3: know what they're in for. And I say, God bless them, 602 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 3: and thank goodness, we have the people, young ladies and 603 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 3: young men doing the job right now, and they're only 604 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 3: doing the best they can. 605 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 2: That's right. And I would really encourage people that are 606 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 2: retiring from the military or leaving to look at the 607 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 2: Secret Service and interview them because they make really good 608 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: agents because of their experience in the military and what 609 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 2: they learn. 610 00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: I think that's very very good advice. Bill, Andre thank 611 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: you for joining me. I think this has been a 612 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: very informative conversation about how the Secret Service operates, and 613 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: frankly hearing from two patriots who have themselves risk their lives, 614 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: dedicated their lives to protecting presidents, into protecting us. It's 615 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: an honor to have both of you spend time. 616 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 3: With me and speaker if I could just to finish up, 617 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 3: and I know Bill and I will probably get criticized 618 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 3: because we appeared on your show or any other show. 619 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 3: They only like to have one spokesperson, and I can't 620 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 3: blame them for that, but I just wish that you 621 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 3: and the Congress asked the right questions, and I think 622 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 3: that's what Bill and I were proud of. We were 623 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 3: given the opportunity to throw questions at you that you 624 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 3: might be in a position to ask those individuals. We 625 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 3: won't have the opportunity. I would never call the director 626 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 3: and say why this and why that? But you have it. 627 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 3: I think we have an obligation to provide you with 628 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 3: the questions to ask. So do I. 629 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 2: And if I may say something, mister speaker, you've heard 630 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 2: it from me. But I have never worked with a 631 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 2: person more intelligent and more caring about this country than you. 632 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 2: And that's why I stayed. And I will never forget 633 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 2: that every time I needed something, you were always available 634 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 2: and your words of wisdom are still around with everyone 635 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 2: that heard you. And thank you for your dedication as country. 636 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 4: Well. 637 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: You're very kind, Goman, You're a great friend, and I 638 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 1: can't speak too highly of the experiences we had together, 639 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: so thank you. I appreciate both of you taking the 640 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: time to be with us. 641 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you, sir. 642 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Bill living Good and Jerry Bechdel. 643 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: You can learn more about The Secret Service on our 644 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: show page at newtworld dot com. Newtworld is produced by Gettwid, 645 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: Sween sixty and iHeartMedia, Actuity producers Guernsey Sloan, Our researcher 646 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created 647 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,760 Speaker 1: by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at Gingrich 648 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: three sixty. If you've been enjoying news World, I hope 649 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with 650 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can 651 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of New 652 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: World can sign up for my three free weekly columns 653 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: at gingrichthree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. 654 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: This is Newsworld.