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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt.

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Speaker 1: Yes he is. And this episode today, all we're talking

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Speaker 1: about is Matt. We're covering Matt's money origin story. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So my desire to do this episode or not, is

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Speaker 1: that a reflection of my own vanity, whether I'm willing

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Speaker 1: to talk about myself for anywhere between thirty and forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes. Yeah, we'll see, We'll see how long this goes.

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Speaker 1: But now I am looking forward to this though, because

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Speaker 1: like I'm in the hot seat a little bit. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I started to perspire a little bit. I feel like

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Speaker 1: you've turned the tables, You've turned the microphone on me.

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Speaker 1: Even though I do talk into the microphone every week,

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Speaker 1: it does feel a little bit different here Spotlight specifically. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's gonna be fun. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna dive into my money origin story next week,

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Speaker 1: and so the tables will be turned. I will feel

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Speaker 1: the heat then, But but I think this is this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be good at It's, you know, still the

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Speaker 1: beginning of a new year, and there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of How the Money listeners who know quite a lot

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Speaker 1: about you and I at this point, we divulge a

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Speaker 1: fair amount of information about how we live our own

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Speaker 1: lives and how we handle our personal finances on the show,

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Speaker 1: but we've never really done a deep dive into either

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Speaker 1: of our money origin stories. And anybody's been listening, some

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Speaker 1: people from back in the day episode, you know, the

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Speaker 1: single digit episodes, they they will find some of these

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Speaker 1: things familiar, but they will also unearthed new territory about

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Speaker 1: the man, the myth, the legend, how the money. Matt. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna weave it all together because I do think that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you've been listening for years now, you probably have

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Speaker 1: maybe a loose understanding of my past of your past

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Speaker 1: as well, because we you know, we sprinkle in a

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Speaker 1: little bits of our history into every single episode. We

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Speaker 1: try to find ways where it relates to our listeners.

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Speaker 1: But this will be fun to kind of play it

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Speaker 1: all together and for folks to have a clear understating.

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Speaker 1: Will be a kind of a more conversational episode as

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Speaker 1: opposed to one world word diving into specific topics are

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Speaker 1: teaching something, Yeah, this is maybe truly what it's actually

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Speaker 1: like if you're having a beer with us and kicked back,

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Speaker 1: but dude. Okay, before we launched into this, though, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to share with you Kate got me an amazing

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Speaker 1: Christmas gift to spend a couple of weeks now since Christmas,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you might remember back we had Marshall Allen on.

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Speaker 1: We talked about healthcare, crazy high costs of still one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite interview episodes that we've done. Fantastic episode,

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Speaker 1: and his splurge was coffee, specifically, he roasts his own coffee. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I kind of nerded out. I started to ask

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Speaker 1: him a bunch of questions, realized that we couldn't include

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Speaker 1: all that in the episode, dialed it back. Um, but

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Speaker 1: I was really interested in his ability to roast his

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Speaker 1: own coffee really nice, like world class, high end coffee

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Speaker 1: for a fraction of the price, and to get it,

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Speaker 1: you know, for super cheap, super fresh at home. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing. Is like the best of both worlds, right,

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Speaker 1: it costs less money and it's better the best stuff exactly.

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Speaker 1: So I meant, you know, after that interview I mentioned

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Speaker 1: that the Kate didn't think much of it. Well, sure enough,

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Speaker 1: Kate got me basically a coffee roasting kit for Christmas,

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Speaker 1: and uh, the best part is one of the easiest

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Speaker 1: and cheapest methods of like an easy bake oven for adults. Yes, seriously,

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Speaker 1: the one of the easiest and cheapest ways to actually

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Speaker 1: roast the coffee are is to use a popcorn air popper.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's it's like this little appliance and you

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Speaker 1: kind of got the spoon of corns, kernels or whatever.

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Speaker 1: You you drop down in there. You flip the thing

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Speaker 1: on it and it starts popping popcorn. Well, you do

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Speaker 1: basically you do that exact same thing with the coffee beans.

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Speaker 1: You do it outside because it creates a big mess

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Speaker 1: in the you know, and it's still there's a decent

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Speaker 1: amount of smoke um. But you do that, you keep

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Speaker 1: an eye on it. You get it to the color

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Speaker 1: the roast you know that you want, whether you're looking

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Speaker 1: for like a lighter medium, darker medium, or darker roast.

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Speaker 1: And dude, it was phenomenal. I was surprised at how

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Speaker 1: easy it was to make really good coffee at home.

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Speaker 1: I've got to get you some. Yes, I would love

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Speaker 1: to try it. It's just like, like like we said, the

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Speaker 1: ability to buy a pound of raw coffee. I guess

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Speaker 1: that's what you call it raw. I'm still working on

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Speaker 1: the kit beans that Kate Kake got me, four different samples. Basically,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of cycling through them right now. But it

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Speaker 1: is definitely more affordable than buying the really nice stuff

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Speaker 1: at the store. How much more affordable, I'm not totally sure.

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Speaker 1: I will report back as I kind of dial in

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Speaker 1: my coffee roasting escapades there we go. But but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll definitely rist them up for you. I look forward

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Speaker 1: to trying it, and yeah, I think it's cool. I

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Speaker 1: was kind of fascinated by the fact that Marshall Allen

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Speaker 1: revealed that he roasted his own beans. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: that was a thing. As soon as he said that,

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, this is gonna be a problem

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Speaker 1: for me. All Right, we gotta reach back out to him. Dude,

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Speaker 1: we're doing it. You're doing it. But anyway, maybe i'll

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Speaker 1: link to the air popper. It's just a standard like

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Speaker 1: popcorn air popper that kid got me. But that plus

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Speaker 1: this book she got me in, plus some sample coffees,

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Speaker 1: that's all you need. But yeah, I'll keep you posted.

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Speaker 1: Sounds good. Looking forward to hearing more about your coffee roasting.

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Speaker 1: It's so good actually once I'm right now, even though

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Speaker 1: we're drinking beer, we should like instagram live you roasting

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Speaker 1: your own coffee beans. It's it's really boring, but in

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Speaker 1: there turn it on and watch it turned around. We

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Speaker 1: could like turn the camera around and you're smiling like

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Speaker 1: a giddy schoolboy. It's that great. Well, let's move on. Matt.

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Speaker 1: Let's mentioned quickly the beer that we're having on this episode.

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Speaker 1: This is Athena Paradiso with BlackBerry, black current and ambrosia.

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Speaker 1: This is my Creature Comforts, which is just an awesome

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Speaker 1: brewery out of Athens, Georgia. Will give our thoughts on

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Speaker 1: this beer at the end of this episode, but uh,

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Speaker 1: for now, Matt, let's get onto the subject matter at hand.

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Speaker 1: And the subject matter is is you, Like we're talking

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Speaker 1: about your money orgin story. It is all about you today,

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, I've kind of um come up with

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Speaker 1: some questions like kind of the things I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you about your money history so that our listeners

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Speaker 1: can learn more about you, but then also just learn

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Speaker 1: more about kind of how you've grown with money, how

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Speaker 1: you've handled it. Hopefully there are not not just human

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Speaker 1: interests here, but also actual money tips and takes takeaways totally,

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Speaker 1: but like we said, it is I think helpful for

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Speaker 1: you to get to know us better as people early

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Speaker 1: on in the new year year And and Matt, January

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Speaker 1: tends to be a month where how the Money gets

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Speaker 1: more downloads than usual because people are like, I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of new Year's resolution, I want to do better with

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Speaker 1: my money, and so they're seeking out a podcast, uh,

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Speaker 1: some similar to ours or ours in particular, and they're

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Speaker 1: hoping that it will help and hopefully hearing Matt's story

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Speaker 1: will provide some inspiration along with yeah, some of those tactical,

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Speaker 1: practical takeaways. But yeah, let's let's get to it. Matt,

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Speaker 1: I want to kind of like start start young, and

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Speaker 1: not like baby young, like when you came home from

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Speaker 1: the hospital or anything like that. But I do want

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Speaker 1: to hear about my first dollar. Is it your parents

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Speaker 1: started that allowance really early? But yeah, let's talk about maybe, um,

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Speaker 1: when you the first conversations you remember about money in

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Speaker 1: your household, And what always sticks out to me is

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Speaker 1: and we'll get into this next week, but coming from

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Speaker 1: a house where money either just wasn't talked about, or

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Speaker 1: when it was, it was always in like a frustrated

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Speaker 1: way or uh, there just wasn't a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: like practical helpful talk when it came to the subject

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Speaker 1: of money. You come from a household that has a

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Speaker 1: pretty healthy relationship with it, it seems like totally man. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I so I credit a lot of that to

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Speaker 1: my dad. He grew up in the Midwest, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like he brought over, you know, from the Midwest

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Speaker 1: to the South, like a lot of that Midwestern like

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Speaker 1: work ethic, and I think he sort of translated a

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Speaker 1: lot of that towards handling your money. Uh well. Also,

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Speaker 1: but as early as I remember, always had an allowance.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like some of my earliest memories regarding money

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Speaker 1: were receiving a bunch of dimes and then being taught

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Speaker 1: how to save a portion of it, how to give

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Speaker 1: a portion of it away, how to you know, have it,

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Speaker 1: you know, the rest of it for spending. But that

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Speaker 1: plus like a piggy bank made out of like a

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Speaker 1: two leader coke modle. That also, I will say, my

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Speaker 1: dad like he taped over it so you couldn't see

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Speaker 1: the money, which always like even now looking back, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: isn't the ability to see it kind of like yeah,

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Speaker 1: like kind of getting you excited about but he was

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Speaker 1: just like no, no, no, like you We're gonna not

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Speaker 1: We're gonna pretend that doesn't exist. Uh. And So I

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Speaker 1: don't know, maybe there's a lesson there that he was

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Speaker 1: trying to teach me, But a lot of my early

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Speaker 1: memories around money had to do with just not only

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Speaker 1: the responsibility of handling my money well, but also doing

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Speaker 1: the chores I needed to do around the house, because

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just an allowance that I received, no matter

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Speaker 1: what it was, because there were certain jobs that I

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Speaker 1: had that I had to perform in order to receive

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Speaker 1: that money. Uh. And so in that way, it was

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Speaker 1: less I guess, like an allowance that I was entitled

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Speaker 1: to and more like something that I did have to earn.

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Speaker 1: And you've really taken that sort of idea about money

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Speaker 1: into how you teach your kids about it. We'll get

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Speaker 1: to that later, but you really do you value you think?

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Speaker 1: And and this is just true in the real world,

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Speaker 1: right that when we work, we get money, and those

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Speaker 1: two things are just highly correlated exactly. I think that's

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Speaker 1: my biggest problem with calling it an allowance, because it

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Speaker 1: just feels like it's something that you get no matter what.

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Speaker 1: It's like a stipend or something. As as as long as

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Speaker 1: you're breathing, you get some money. It's like, well, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I really do like the idea that you

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Speaker 1: receive money when you perform a job or do a job,

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Speaker 1: or you know, perform a task. I do think like

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks will argue that, well, no, there

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Speaker 1: should be certain chores that your kids do no matter what.

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Speaker 1: And I agree, like, there are certain things that my

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Speaker 1: kids will never get paid for because you're not gonna

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Speaker 1: get paid for being you know, listening to mom and

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Speaker 1: I are making your bed, Like yeah, like these are

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Speaker 1: things that you you should be doing no matter what.

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Speaker 1: But for me, you know, the allowance that was huge

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Speaker 1: another sort of lesson. And this is I guess as

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Speaker 1: I got a little bit older, but I remember getting

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Speaker 1: my first credit card, Like I remember showing up in

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Speaker 1: the mail. I was still living at home, and this

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Speaker 1: is you know, this is years ago, and I swear

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Speaker 1: I was like I was either eighteen or even younger,

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Speaker 1: and I may have been sixteen years old. And it

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Speaker 1: was a card and it, I mean, it's a prequalified letter.

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Speaker 1: I had my name on it, and I remember showing

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Speaker 1: it to dad and be like, hey, this is my

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Speaker 1: credit card now, right, and he's like, yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, wait, what it's like, Well, as long

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Speaker 1: as you whatever you use it for, as long as

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Speaker 1: you pay it off every month, there's no reason that

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Speaker 1: you can't use this credit card. Uh. And and so

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Speaker 1: I think that stands up in my mind as well,

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Speaker 1: and that might be part of my affinity towards credit

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Speaker 1: cards even today, because I mean he was taking advantage

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Speaker 1: of cash back bonuses and different things like that starting

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Speaker 1: back in the eighties. But I think that that that

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Speaker 1: also had a pretty large impact on my ability to

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Speaker 1: think about finances, maybe in a different way than other

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Speaker 1: kids were. Yeah, well it sounds like to what your

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Speaker 1: dad was instilling was a sense of tomomy right where

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Speaker 1: we're like your sixteen and your dad's like, sure, it's

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Speaker 1: your credit card. Uh. And we've talked about how how

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Speaker 1: helping your kids, allowing your kids some of that leash

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Speaker 1: to make mistakes while they're still under your roof is

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Speaker 1: actually the best time for them to make mistakes and

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Speaker 1: to learn while you're there to protect him while the

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Speaker 1: mistakes can be minor, and it seems like your dad

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Speaker 1: was kind of setting you up for that that ability

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Speaker 1: to Yeah, absolutely, they were all about allowing me to

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Speaker 1: make the mistakes with like tens and hundreds of dollars

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Speaker 1: as opposed to like thousands and ten thousands of dollars

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Speaker 1: that oftentimes those are the lessons we learned further down

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Speaker 1: the road, right. But also I do want to mention

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Speaker 1: my mom because even though like more the day to

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Speaker 1: day you know, nuts and bolts of handling money, well

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Speaker 1: came down to dad and what he taught me. But

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Speaker 1: I think my one of the things my mom instilled

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Speaker 1: in me. I mean, of course, like she's Asian and

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Speaker 1: so like all Asian parents, she wanted me to be

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Speaker 1: a doctor or a lawyer. But one of the things

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Speaker 1: that always stood out to me because I knew what

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Speaker 1: a doctor was and I knew what a lawyer was.

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Speaker 1: But she would also always mentioned entrepreneurship, like in your

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Speaker 1: own business, and that really does as I think back,

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Speaker 1: that stands out to me because at the time you

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Speaker 1: didn't really know what that meant, right, Like all you

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Speaker 1: knew was at there are stores and then I guess

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Speaker 1: there's a business owner and so. And specifically mom had

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Speaker 1: and she still does have a lot of friends who

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Speaker 1: own their own businesses, but a lot of them were

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Speaker 1: like brick and mortar shops and so. But even then,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't necessarily want to be like the

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Speaker 1: owner of a Korean food store, like, but the idea time, buddy,

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Speaker 1: if you want, hey, I could man uh or your

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Speaker 1: own coffee roasting company maybe so uh. But the idea

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Speaker 1: of being able to do whatever it is that I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do with my time, for me to be

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Speaker 1: able to set my own rules, I think, even at

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Speaker 1: a very young age, that that kind of turned something

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Speaker 1: onto my head, right, like it flipped the switch. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't have to go work for somebody else, I

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Speaker 1: can create my own product. Yeah. And I think that

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Speaker 1: had a lot to do with too. Just how I mean,

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Speaker 1: I literally only lasted like a year and a half,

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Speaker 1: two years in the corporate world right after college before

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Speaker 1: I started my own business, before doing other things is

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Speaker 1: that were a little less traditional. And and as I

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Speaker 1: think back, I mean, there weren't many influences in my

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Speaker 1: life to owning your own business except for some of

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Speaker 1: those early conversations we had and thinking that I might

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Speaker 1: own a food store. Yeah, alright, So, uh so, I

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Speaker 1: feel like, you know, we talked about how your your

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Speaker 1: dad in particular, was such a great influence your mom

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Speaker 1: in regards to pushing you towards entrepreneurship at least opening

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Speaker 1: your eyes to the reality that that is a legitimate

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Speaker 1: way to move forward in this world, to start your

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Speaker 1: own business. But what about like maybe the biggest money

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Speaker 1: fail or something like that, like our biggest money struggle

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Speaker 1: early on, because you know, even today, it's not like

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Speaker 1: you're rolling in the dough. But but where where I'm sitting,

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Speaker 1: from where I'm sitting, you've been just so incredibly intentional

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Speaker 1: for a lot of years with your money and and

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Speaker 1: that's paid off, like you we mentioned in this on

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Speaker 1: the show, but you have your budget down to the penny,

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Speaker 1: like what you've spent dating back fifteen years. Like so,

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Speaker 1: so it's not without like a lot of effort and

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Speaker 1: intentionality that you've gotten here. But I'd love to hear

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Speaker 1: what my robotic friend Matt like that you're a real

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Speaker 1: human being who potentially occasionally also screws up so totally.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't make the always make the wisest decisions,

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Speaker 1: and I will say I mean I've become more methodical

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Speaker 1: and responsible as I've gotten older, but especially dude, I

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Speaker 1: mean in high school and college. You know, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say that these were struggles at the time. Like at

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Speaker 1: the time, I thought I was just living my life

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Speaker 1: and making great decisions. But the amount of money that

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Speaker 1: I spent on cars specifically, and we've kind of hinted

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Speaker 1: at this before, but early on I had this old Jeep,

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Speaker 1: this old Jeep Cherokee that actually was pretty great. It

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Speaker 1: was a pretty great car, was well maintained. We bought

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Speaker 1: it from some folks we knew. But then I saved

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Speaker 1: up some more money, sold that Jeep. Took that money

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Speaker 1: that I, you know, earned from that sale, and plus

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Speaker 1: the additional money, and I bought a nicer Jeep, like

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Speaker 1: a newer Grand not just regular Cherokee, a Grand Cherokee,

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Speaker 1: did the upgrade and fancy and uh. And then in

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Speaker 1: college I actually sold sold that, sold that one and

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Speaker 1: got an older Range Rover, which was also a very sweet,

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Speaker 1: sweet ride that was very expensive to maintain, terrible gas mileage.

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Speaker 1: Obviously didn't check the Consumer Reports reliability ratings before you

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Speaker 1: bought that, But I mean I did this multiple times

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Speaker 1: over the course of a number of years, and just

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Speaker 1: every time you do that, there's just transaction costs involved,

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Speaker 1: not to mention just getting it to a level of running,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a level of dependability. Plus I would

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Speaker 1: also put a decent stereo, and I wasn't like going

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Speaker 1: around blast and music, but I liked having a you know,

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Speaker 1: some base. I liked having a sub back there. But

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Speaker 1: I would do that every single time. And so it

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Speaker 1: was just this money that was just essentially hemorrhaging towards

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Speaker 1: transportation that just wasn't all that necessary in my life.

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Speaker 1: Like I look back now in retrospect and I kind

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Speaker 1: of cringe at what I could have done with that

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Speaker 1: money had I invested it. Say, you know, like we

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Speaker 1: give these examples all the time, how if a teenager

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Speaker 1: when they are sixteen or eighteen years old, if they

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Speaker 1: started investing that money early on, what that money could

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Speaker 1: turn into. And I couldn't imagine, uh, the fortune, the

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Speaker 1: amount of wealth that I would have had I done that.

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Speaker 1: But those are lessons though, that I learned along the way.

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Speaker 1: Because after that period of time I was able to

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Speaker 1: look back, I can think, oh man, that was kind

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Speaker 1: of dumb, Like it was fun but it was it

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Speaker 1: was very expensive fun, you know. And and again these

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Speaker 1: weren't really nice, brand new, fancy sports cars or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. These were old, old cars relatively not an

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Speaker 1: expensive car relatively speaking. But for you, it's still just

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Speaker 1: like a misplacement of fund. Absolutely for me, it was

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Speaker 1: just the most definitely was the most amount of money

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Speaker 1: that was spending on anything. And so yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: On one hand, I see that as a massive mistake,

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, I see that as just

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Speaker 1: a learning opportunity. And it's something that I've kind of

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Speaker 1: carried into today. As to you know who I am now? Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, well who you are now? We're going to

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Speaker 1: get to that in just a second. But I've got

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Speaker 1: some some more questions about as like you enter early adulthood,

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Speaker 1: and in particular, I want to ask you about a

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Speaker 1: moment that you point to at your light bulb moment,

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Speaker 1: and it it's about the show down to an abbey.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna get some more questions about your origin

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Speaker 1: story and what makes you who you are and how

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Speaker 1: you are with money. We'll get to some more of

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Speaker 1: those right after this. All right, we're back from the

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Speaker 1: break and now slow down. This is my I can

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Speaker 1: take it the lead here, I get to bring it back.

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Speaker 1: I got the reins. You just sit back and handle

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Speaker 1: the questions. I'm just gonna kick back and you rob

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Speaker 1: my feet. No, we're not doing that. But let's let's

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Speaker 1: get to you all. Let's get dive more further into

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Speaker 1: your origin story, mat because yeah, there's um does it

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Speaker 1: feel like that the guests just welcomed the show back

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Speaker 1: from the best because you're kind of interviewing me. It

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Speaker 1: felt wrong, But uh, I want to know too, Like,

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Speaker 1: as you're okay, so you're in college, you're spending money

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Speaker 1: on cars that you should really shouldn't be because you

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Speaker 1: could be saying, you could even start to get into investing,

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Speaker 1: and because your dad had taught you some important principles

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Speaker 1: about how to handle money, giving you actual money as

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Speaker 1: a kid to save and invest and so yeah, like

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Speaker 1: as you left the nest, like, as you're out on

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Speaker 1: your own basically at college, where did you turn for

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Speaker 1: help figuring out the bigger money issues that you started

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Speaker 1: to face because your your dad had been such help.

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Speaker 1: Would you just call him when you have questions or

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Speaker 1: or yeah, what direction did you start to go in

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Speaker 1: um with yeah, your your money beliefs. Yeah, I should

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Speaker 1: have called my dad. So I mean my personality, I'm

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Speaker 1: just prone to do things on my own and to

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Speaker 1: learn on my own and make my own mistakes. And

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Speaker 1: so I'm sure I could have called dad uh and

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Speaker 1: ask him some very specific and I'm sure I did. Actually.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you talk to your parents all

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Speaker 1: the time, like when you're when you're younger, and I

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Speaker 1: can't necessarily remember, like, you know, some important phone call.

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Speaker 1: But I also know my personality though, and I do

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Speaker 1: tend to not ask for help. I tend to try

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Speaker 1: to figure things out on my own. I make my

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Speaker 1: own mistakes, which can be a good thing because once

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Speaker 1: you learn a lesson, I think you learn it really

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Speaker 1: well when when you've learned it the hard way, as

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Speaker 1: opposed it being something that somebody else has told you.

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Speaker 1: And plus at that time, I think Dad was investing

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Speaker 1: a lot in single stocks, and so you may have

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Speaker 1: pointed me in the wrong direction. It's still a debate

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Speaker 1: that him and I have often where it's just like,

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Speaker 1: so tell me about your portfolio. How much better is

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Speaker 1: it doing than the SMP which turned last year? But

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Speaker 1: it wasn't until actually I graduated college and I got

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Speaker 1: my first It was a post college job, but it

403
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Speaker 1: wasn't a job with my profession. I was just living

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Speaker 1: up in North Carolina with a friend and I first

405
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Speaker 1: learned about the roth ira A. I was a friend

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Speaker 1: of mine who was a few years older, and he

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Speaker 1: was telling me all about the magic of compound returns

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Speaker 1: and how I needed to get investing, uh specifically within

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Speaker 1: a roth ira as soon as possible, and I said, cool, done,

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Speaker 1: I'll do that, and I totally like, literally, I think

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Speaker 1: I can. Also, I need you to jump off a bridge,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, cool about that, Dan, But I invested

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Speaker 1: my money. I opened a roth ira A. But the

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Speaker 1: thing is, I have things out of order, right, and

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Speaker 1: so even though you do want to get investing, you

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Speaker 1: do want to make sure you've got some money in

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Speaker 1: the bank, And unfortunately I didn't. Really, I wasn't well versed,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't well rounded. I just didn't have that fund started. No,

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Speaker 1: I didn't. And that was the problem. That was money

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Speaker 1: that I actually had to take out of that accounts

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Speaker 1: um a number of months later because I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't have any margin in my life, and I was

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Speaker 1: looking for some money to help me with my move

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Speaker 1: to at once I got my first what I called

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Speaker 1: my first big boy job. But nor was I actually

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Speaker 1: invested in a low cost index fund either. I was

427
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Speaker 1: invested in a fund that he had recommended and he

428
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 1: had seen good results over the you know, a few

429
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,200
Speaker 1: years that he was invested, But it was a really

430
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,360
Speaker 1: expensive mutual fund that was managed by like this rock

431
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 1: star fund manager. And so what that meant was that

432
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,720
Speaker 1: as soon as I started investing in it, it didn't

433
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 1: do so great. Uh. And then on top of that,

434
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 1: any returns that I was receiving was getting eaten away

435
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 1: my fees. And so that's why not because of that

436
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 1: one lesson, but since that was my first lesson, the

437
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,240
Speaker 1: first time I learned that low cost in next funds

438
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 1: were the way to go. But we have just seen

439
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 1: over years and decades that widely diversified funds that cost

440
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,879
Speaker 1: virtually nothing is what you and I are currently invested in.

441
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 1: It's what we recommend for everybody who's in the wealth

442
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 1: building stage of their life. But that was that was

443
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 1: a lesson I learned. Yeah, maybe the hard way. Well

444
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 1: that's a that's a couple of lessons which funds you

445
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 1: are are are smart to invest in you. You also

446
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,880
Speaker 1: learned about timing of things. Order of operations is important,

447
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 1: and we talk about that in our seven money Gears

448
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 1: and how there is there is a weight route in

449
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,360
Speaker 1: which you should go and investing before you have any

450
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 1: savings on hand is a bad idea because yeah, you

451
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: might need to pull that money out and that is

452
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,679
Speaker 1: not an ideal situation. You gotta have that margin. Uh.

453
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 1: Something else I mentioned too, that same friend who had

454
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 1: told me about opening my first you know, opening my

455
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 1: wrath Ira. Interestingly, he had purchased a home that my

456
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 1: friend and I were renting from, and so this was

457
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 1: my first introduction to investment properties. Uh. And he made

458
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,640
Speaker 1: it look so fun and so great because he owned

459
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,479
Speaker 1: the place that we're friends with them anyway, right, and

460
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 1: so he would come by and hang out. This is

461
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 1: up in North Carolina. It's kind of cold up there,

462
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: so we'd have like like guys chili nights, and uh,

463
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 1: we'd have some friends over. That's actually coincidentally, that's when

464
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 1: I first started drinking nicer craft beer. So that was

465
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: a very formational period of my life when I learned

466
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 1: a lot. But looking back, I I realized that was

467
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: my first introduction into understanding the fact that oh, you

468
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 1: could invest in real estate. You can you can buy

469
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,640
Speaker 1: a property, uh that can generate income for you, and

470
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 1: you can do that like with a good conscience. It's

471
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: not like this evil landlord who is trying to extract

472
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 1: as much value out of the tenant as possible. It's

473
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 1: not like this massive imbalance of power. You can do

474
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 1: it in a way that provides good for a lot

475
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 1: of people. And I think that was really important when

476
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 1: it came to sort of planning those initial seeds of

477
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 1: real estate investing. So it's interesting, Uh, my eight year

478
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 1: old Selma, she got Monopoly Junior for Christmas, and so

479
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: we've been playing the one with the with the with

480
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: the cards or is it actually the game board? Is

481
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: actually the game board? And it is. It's a lot

482
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 1: of fun. And she's getting understanding real estate investing more

483
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 1: where she's like, I buy this thing and then when

484
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 1: people land on it, they have to pay me money.

485
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 1: And it's like she's like this is this sounds like

486
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: a lot of the way. Yeah, And so yeah, trying

487
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: to expound on the nuance behind a brental property or

488
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 1: even just starting a business with her. And it's interesting

489
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 1: how something as small as Monopoly Junior has been kind

490
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 1: of a way to do that. And yeah, I real

491
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 1: estate investing, you know. You know, I've talked about it

492
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,439
Speaker 1: a bunch on the show. It's been great for you

493
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 1: and I overall. And and yeah, I think do think

494
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: of it as a service in a capitalistic economy, where

495
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: you can offer something good to somebody that they need,

496
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 1: uh and at the same time make money. But talk

497
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: to me about your Downtown Abbey epiphany, because this is

498
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: one of those things. Actually on the about us page

499
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 1: on how the Money dot com, you and I both

500
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: have written just a little bit about our personal lives,

501
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: and this is one of the things that you mentioned

502
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 1: in there. It's this conversation with your wife Kate back

503
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 1: in the day. Have we ever talked about it on

504
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 1: the show? I don't think so. Okay, so I know

505
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: I've talked about it on other shows. I guess, Yeah,

506
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 1: this is a great time, I guess to share it

507
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: now when you're on the Today Show or uh r,

508
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: so before I mean, that was a great moment because

509
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 1: it was a time when Kate and I were getting

510
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 1: on the same page, uh, specifically about like a higher

511
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 1: level goal. But that wasn't always the case. And even

512
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: before before the Downtown story. I want to I'll mention

513
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: Dave Ramsey because Kate and I like when we were dating,

514
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 1: uh and and even when we were engaged that entire

515
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 1: period of time, Kate was still in school, was in college.

516
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: She was a full time student, taking a full load.

517
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: She was graduating early, so she was taking so many hours.

518
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: She was ready to, you know, to move to Atlanta

519
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: live with me. But I was a little bit concerned

520
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: because we had never essentially earned money. We hadn't lived

521
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: lives together while we had careers while we had earned

522
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: money where we're spending real amounts of money, and there's

523
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: no sort of set path on how to talk about that.

524
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: And so before we we got married, actually I wanted

525
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: us to have more conversations around that. And actually, so

526
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: I got his tickets to Dave Ramsey. He had one

527
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: by I guess he still doesn't. I don't I've heard

528
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, yeah, you've heard of this guy, this

529
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: this hill billy from from Tennessee. But he had these

530
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: live events and it's where he you know, he covers

531
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: the basics of personal finance basically, and he kind of

532
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: takes you through his brand of personal finance, a lot

533
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: of which we disagree with here on how the money

534
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: we've talked a good start for a lot of great start,

535
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: especially if you have a lot of debts. Uh, And

536
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: so I mean anybody who is looking for some motivation

537
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: to get out of debt, I think that's a great

538
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: place to start. Sometimes it's not even the principles that

539
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: we didn't disagree with that it's the approach, although some

540
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: of the some of the principles we definitely disagree with,

541
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: but yeah, and just his attitude, his approach. But regardless,

542
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: that was I didn't know if anybody else, anybody else

543
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: to turn to any other sort of way for us

544
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: to get on the same page. And so we went

545
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: to this thing and it was great because it allowed

546
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: Kate and I to have a shared vocabulary. It allowed

547
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: us to talk about our money in a way that

548
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: was constructive as opposed to only talking about it when

549
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: when when we had arguments. He's like, he's like the

550
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: unbiased third party that entered into your relationship to give

551
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 1: you some advice that you sorely needed and to give

552
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 1: me the ability to then talk about it while exactly yeah,

553
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: And so I wanted to mention that because that was

554
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: helpful for us early on. It was good for us

555
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: as we started to basically build our life together, and

556
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: so that was sort of like the initial sort of

557
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: building block. And then you mentioned the Downton Abbey story,

558
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 1: and that was another sort of moment where it felt

559
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: like that we were becoming even more aligned with our goals.

560
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: And we'd been kind of watching it Downton Abbey earlier

561
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: that week We're driving to usn't at that point in time,

562
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: it was a hot show. It he was like the

563
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: squid Game of its time, especially, Like I mean, they

564
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: were just living this life of leisure and they're just

565
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: in this you know this gi and English countryside castle

566
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: and Kate ash She's like, well, how how do they

567
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: do that? Like was that actually real life? And we

568
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: got to talking about wealth and the ability for your

569
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: money to you know, do the heavy lifting for you,

570
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: Like when you have enough wealth, uh, that money is

571
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: when you put it to use uh in certain ways,

572
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: when you invested that that money is able to then

573
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: grow uh and then you have options. And that was

574
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: essentially our first conversation about financial independence, which is something

575
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: that was in the back of my mind. Like I

576
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: remember my dad literally telling me that story. He's like,

577
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: there's this it's like picture that's sort of like a

578
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: roller coaster and like once you kind of reach that

579
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: peak and your money starts making more money than you do, well,

580
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: then if you want to, you can just kick back

581
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: and you'll be cruising. Then then then you two can

582
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: be become a member of the British Aristotle exactly. Uh,

583
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: just avoid cruises on brain new ships. Uh that might

584
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: sink in the freezing ocean. But anyway, that like that's

585
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: what got us talking about financial independence. And for us

586
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 1: that was really cool because it helped us to realize

587
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: that there might be these high, these sort of longer

588
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,959
Speaker 1: term goals that we're working towards as opposed to us

589
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: continuing to trade our time for money, uh, instead putting

590
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: our money to use in ways that would allow our

591
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: money to grow. And and that is I think as

592
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: people start to kind of wrestle with different personal finance topics,

593
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: as you start to learn more, when you find out

594
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: what compounding returns do, how they work, and how much

595
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: how much your money can work for you over over

596
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: the long haul, over decades. It's kind of one of

597
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,959
Speaker 1: those like epiphany moments, and then you realize the concept

598
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: of financial independence and that it can be broken down

599
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: even into a simple math problem, but the reality that

600
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: you can all they are all these steps along the

601
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: way that provide different amounts of financial independence in your life.

602
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: And then that ultimate reality where you have enough money

603
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: in the bank account that you don't have to work

604
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: if you don't want to, is is pretty incredible. But

605
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: they are all these little mind blowing things along the way,

606
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: these dominoes at fall I think in your personal finance education,

607
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: but that is one of them, right, and and that

608
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: is one of the biggest ones. I remember I was

609
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: already like investing, well, I knew a lot of the

610
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 1: basics of personal finance. But then when I kind of

611
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: start to get into and read some of the smarter

612
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: folks in the financial independence movement, and I was like, oh,

613
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: I didn't know money could do that, and like that

614
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: is that is mind blowing? Right? It's it's pretty life changing. Yeah, yeah, no,

615
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: it truly is. Another funny note too, is that we

616
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: had that conversation while we were in this crazy, old,

617
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: crusty Honda. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that,

618
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: had you at that point like you said, yeah, you're

619
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: right about your your in this like nasty car at

620
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: this point prioritize vehicles before, because I mean, honest, I

621
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: think did I think you did? So? So is is this?

622
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: Is this? This look back at that car with so

623
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 1: much respect, like I almost wish we still got it

624
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: was amazing. It was an amazing car. And so we

625
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: didn't have to do that. And what's interesting is like

626
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: that was one of the first more quote unquote extreme

627
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: steps that we had taken in order to save money faster,

628
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: in order to to minimize our expenses. At that point

629
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: in time, we weren't driving a ton. We were working

630
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: from home because we had we'd started our business, and

631
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: so we realized at that point in time we could

632
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: why not just try just having one car? And so

633
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: for us that was like four years ago fi years

634
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 1: ago where we have only had one vehicle in our family.

635
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: But the reason we were doing that, though, is because

636
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: we had the goal to be able to put down

637
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: on the first house that we're saving up for. We're

638
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: saving up our first down payment. And the thing is too,

639
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: like I had a nicer, newer grand Cherokee, and we

640
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: sold that vehicle because we were being smart. You downgraded

641
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: the purpose we did because we knew we could get

642
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: more for that vehicle. Let's get that off to somebody else,

643
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: and we're going to continue to drive the car that

644
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: gave us the best gas mileage, that old Honda Accord.

645
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: It was a fantastic car. When you you and I

646
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: we still share that same philosophy about cars. You have

647
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: one car minivan. I have one car minivan, and they're

648
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: both pretty inexpensive. Mind was literally five thousand dollars. That

649
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: is the only car that our family owns. And it's

650
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: not because we can't afford to buy a nicer car.

651
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: It is a purposeful choice. And I think like once

652
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: that epiphany hits you, uh, you become willing almost to

653
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: make more oddball choices that most people aren't willing to make,

654
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: because it's propelling you more in that direction that you

655
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: want to go, Like you realize what financial independence can

656
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: do for you, that you can kind of get to

657
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: the top of that roller coaster through by making a

658
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: few smaller choices that to most people they're unwilling to make.

659
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: But in in your new reality, it's not that big

660
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: of a deal because it allows you to get where

661
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: you want to go a whole lot quicker. Absolutely, Yeah,

662
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: And a lot of folks will say, well, this car,

663
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: it's paid off. It's like, well, first of all, you

664
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: shouldn't have had a payment on that car anyway. But

665
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: then secondly they're like insurance, it's not all that much money.

666
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, sure, maybe for you know, one year, it's

667
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: not that big of a deal, but over multiple years,

668
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: after ten, fifteen years, like that money really does add

669
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: up and it can have a big impact appreciation. You

670
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: got that general car, think about how much it is

671
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: going to appreciate in the next three to five years.

672
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: And absolutely we're not telling everyone they have to live

673
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: the way we live, but it is it's interesting when

674
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: we go back to some similar patterns. Yeah, yeah, but

675
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we'll get to your story next week.

676
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: But I mean there's some there's definitely some over like

677
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: we're very different in a lot of ways, but there's

678
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: a lot of core fundamentals that are the same. Because

679
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: to a certain extent, there's a certain formula that you

680
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: can easily follow that's going to allow you to achieve

681
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: financial freedom and financial independence. A lot faster. I wanted

682
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: to mention the car thing too, because you're asking about

683
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: like my money struggles and how that's sort of essentially

684
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: my my biggest mistake that I think of when I

685
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: look back, and I wonder if if I've essentially overcompensated

686
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,239
Speaker 1: for those past errors. But you know, like I've got

687
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: all these SUVs, these expensive to maintain, terrible gas mileage

688
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: suv is haunting me from my past, and so I'm

689
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: only driving very fuel efficient Honda's economical choice aside from

690
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: like Toyota and Lexus or whatever. I get it, I

691
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: get it. All right, Well, we got we got. I

692
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: got a few more questions to get to me. I

693
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: want to talk about your formation of your first small business.

694
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: We can talk even about the podcast a little bit

695
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: and how we got started here, but uh yeah, let's

696
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: get to some more of your story right after this.

697
00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: All right, we're back and special guest on Today's my host,

698
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: my best friend, and we started Matt we can you

699
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: believe we started How the Money four years ago and

700
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: it's been a whole lot of fun there. We've developed

701
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: this incredible community of people who listen, who care about

702
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: the show, who have learned a lot and made a

703
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: lot of changes in their lives. And so this is

704
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: but this is not the first small business you started.

705
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the first one that you began,

706
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: and it was not too long after you graduated from college.

707
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: You mentioned kind of being like a beauty school dropout. Basically,

708
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: you were in the corporate world for a hot minute,

709
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: and then you were gone and you decided to start

710
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: start your own photography business. What what made you feel

711
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: like you could you could jump ship and start frown business?

712
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: Was it? Was? It really mostly the inspiration from your

713
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: mom and kind of like what you learned growing up

714
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: about entrepreneurship, because it always felt like unapproachable to me

715
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: for a long time, right, I mean literally, it just

716
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: came down to crunch in the numbers. I mean, and

717
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: so I've always found I mean, this is why I

718
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: have Excel spreadsheets going back to like, yeah, two thousands

719
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: and six. But when I sat down and crunched the numbers,

720
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: uh and mapped out the ability for me to make

721
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: a living with something else other than my standard job.

722
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: Granted I wasn't making a ton back then, and so

723
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: it was it's easier to make anything. Looking once you

724
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: crude the numbers, but that gave me the confidence to

725
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: know that, wow, okay, this is something that not only

726
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: can I do and find enjoyment and satisfaction by doing,

727
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: but this is something that can provide for for Kate

728
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: and I in a serious way. And so let me

729
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: that coupled with the fact that neither Kate nor I

730
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: had any debt, and by any, I mean like zero,

731
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: Like we didn't a lucky way to start off in

732
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, absolute especially these days, like that

733
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: is not the case and that is hard to come by.

734
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: Any student loans. We both had scholarships like unicorns in

735
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: today's yeah, and as as well as small enought some

736
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: money that our our parents had dedicated for our college

737
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: as well. But we both also had enough basic financial

738
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: knowledge to know that we weren't going to go into

739
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: consumer debt. We you know, I mentioned knowing to pay

740
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: off my credit cards literally at the age of like

741
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: sixteen or eighteen years old, I knew that that's how

742
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: you approach credit cards, at least in the same thing

743
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: with Kate. And so that allowed us to take what

744
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: seemed like more of a risk, to step away from

745
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: jobs that were solid that we're dependable that we're paying us,

746
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: you know, the paycheck every two weeks. If you had

747
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: had large amounts of debt weighing you down, whether it

748
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: was school debt, credit card debt, anything, you would have

749
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: probably found it a lot more difficult. It would be

750
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: a bigger risk. Yeah, absolutely, And we didn't I mean,

751
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: and we didn't even have a mortgage at that point.

752
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: We were just renting a place. But and you're like,

753
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: we can always skip down if we can't afford. But

754
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: like I wanted to mention to just again, I want

755
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: to reiterate crunching the numbers and having that knowledge and

756
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: the comfort that brought, because what I realized too is

757
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: that by going through that process, uh and crunching the numbers,

758
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: even just on the cost of healthcare, I learned that

759
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: even if I was going to stay with the company

760
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: I was with, it didn't make sense for me to

761
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: be a part of the company healthcare plan because it

762
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: was so expensive. And so I see that almost as

763
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: like this turning point from thinking that the world's gonna

764
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: take care of you, or your employer is gonna take

765
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: care of you, as you know, to like, Okay, no,

766
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: now I'm in the driver's seats, and you got a

767
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: question more to make these decisions because nobody else. Here's

768
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: the thing, it doesn't matter what in its w you're in,

769
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: what company you're with, Nobody's gonna care about you in

770
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: your livelihood and your future as much as you are.

771
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: And so I think oftentimes we can get lulled into thinking, oh,

772
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: I've got this nice, dependable wage, Oh I've got these benefits,

773
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: but in the end, it comes down to us to

774
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: be able to determine what's going to be best for

775
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: for us and for our future. Okay. One one of

776
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: the most interesting things about you starting your own photography business.

777
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: I remember when I met you, like you guys were

778
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: already photographers, Like we we've known each other for I

779
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: don't know, like twelve years now, been good friends. Yeah,

780
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: and so you you remember you telling me early on

781
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: that you've turned down a lot of people that reach

782
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: out to and when did you shoot their wedding? Like

783
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: you were consistently turning down business, and I was like

784
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: that that would frighten me as a small business owner.

785
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: I would be trying to get as much business in

786
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: as I could. And so, yeah, what was your make

787
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: hay While the sunshine right, Yeah, yeah, oftentimes that is

788
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: the mentality what was your ethos behind like turning down gigs?

789
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: So it took so we you know, we started the

790
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: photography company, and we started out with it as a

791
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: side hustle and it slowly ramped up and then it

792
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: eventually took over and was able to provide all of

793
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: our It was the sole source of our income. But

794
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: when I say like it took over, like it literally

795
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: took over our lives. And what we learned, especially being

796
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: newly married, was that it was really destructive. It was

797
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: really difficult for our marriage, and it took a couple

798
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: of years of us living through that for us to

799
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,919
Speaker 1: kind of go through that storm to you know, luckily,

800
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: we made it out of that and we were able

801
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: to look back and we realized that, man, that sucked.

802
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: That was really difficult, and we need to make sure

803
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: that we're not continuing to do that because our relationship

804
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: isn't it's not going you know, in a great direction.

805
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: You're valuing or putting too much, too much emphasis on

806
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: the business and not enough on your relations And we

807
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: I mean we enjoyed it, you know, like it was

808
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: literally all we ever talked about. It's all we ever

809
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: thought about. It's all I mean a lot of what

810
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: we did, especially this first couple of years after that,

811
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, we were able to, like you said, we

812
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: we said no more often in turn down work. But

813
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: as a small business owner, I mean, that was I

814
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: think I think that's probably the hardest lesson for any

815
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: small business owner to learn, which is that there are

816
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: their things in our lives that we need to prioritize

817
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: and need a value, and if you don't, the business

818
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: is going to take over, right like if not. There's

819
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: this sort of default way that the world again just

820
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: by default, it encourages us to go a certain direction,

821
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 1: and if there are other things that you value more,

822
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: you have to fight for those things. And so that's

823
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: when it came down to us literally saying no. And

824
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: we you know, we could have. We talked about going

825
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: in different directions as well, bringing on additional shooters, and

826
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: you know we did, you know, more of that later

827
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: on in the business. But you know, at that point

828
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: in our lives, we were we had enough. We had

829
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: always had enough. There are you know, there were some

830
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 1: years that were leaner than others, there are some years

831
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: that were really fat, but even still we were lucky

832
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: enough to be in a position where we were never wanting,

833
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: and so for us, that was an important distinction to

834
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: make to to draw that line, to say no to income. Yeah,

835
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: I think that's a powerful thing, to say no to

836
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: income and to say like, I have enough. And you

837
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: know what, drawing some lines because you and I, like,

838
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: there's no limit to the amount of things we could

839
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: create or produce, or the amount the level to which

840
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: we could grow the small business that you and I

841
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: have started together. But to have normal functioning family lives, like,

842
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: there has to be a limit, you know, we have

843
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 1: to create an artificial limit. Because we could keep pounding away,

844
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: we could write books, and we could be on Instagram

845
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: live like three times a day, Like, there's a million

846
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: things we could do to reach more people to grow

847
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: the business. But we have consciously decided to say no

848
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 1: to doing more because it's not healthy and there has

849
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: to be a limit, and you have to be able

850
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,439
Speaker 1: to it's it's a wise thing for your own mental health,

851
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: for your own relational health. In order to to see

852
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: that and to say it, yeah, and again it's you know,

853
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: Kate and I we were fortunate enough back then with

854
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: photography to be able to make that decision right like,

855
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: we were in a solid position, and the same thing

856
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: is true with you and I right now. We are lucky.

857
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: We are fortunate to be in a position where we

858
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: can say that, oh, well, I don't really want to

859
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: do this aspect that you know of spreading, spreading the

860
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,919
Speaker 1: reach of how to money. A lot of other people

861
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: who are doing this thing. Do you want to do this?

862
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: It's like, well maybe, maybe, maybe not. But we're in

863
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: the position to where we don't have to say, oh gosh,

864
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: we have to do this thing, and that might change,

865
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: you know, like like later this year, we might be

866
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: in a position to where it's just like, oh gosh,

867
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 1: we we really need to do this thing now. We're

868
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: not really excited about it, but when it comes. I mean,

869
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: this is how businesses work. If there's things that you

870
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: aren't excited to do, you get other people to do

871
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: these things and hopefully it can scale in a way

872
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: that makes sense. But again, you and I are fortunate

873
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: to be in a position to where we can say that,

874
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: and we understand that not everybody is in that position

875
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: totally so, and I completely agree. I will say part

876
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: of it is you put yourself in that position, right

877
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: and you you you know, driving a krusty car and

878
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 1: uh and and and having one car and avoiding debt

879
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: uh and and you know a lot of credit goes

880
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: to being raised well, having good parents too, and and

881
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: and then another thing that helps too is having income

882
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: coming from somewhere else, not just from an employer or

883
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: from a business that you've started, but in particular for

884
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: for us and and for you is rental real estate.

885
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: And so yeah, you you mentioned earlier your your story

886
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: of kind of realizing by that a friend had a

887
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: rental property and you're like, oh, that seems like it's

888
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: pretty cool. We're paying him money every single month and

889
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: he's taking that money and scooping some off the top.

890
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: The rest goes to the bank. He's a cool dude.

891
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know. Was that kind of what

892
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: gave me the inspiration to to get into that. Yeah, yeah,

893
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: so that was my first foray. Another friend of ours

894
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: up there in North Carolina's as well, Clark. He around

895
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: the same time, he had purchased his first home and

896
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: it was a triplex. So he was the original house hacker.

897
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,760
Speaker 1: He was the first house hacker that I knew because

898
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: he moved in the main level and he had uh

899
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: it was a lot where it dropped away and he

900
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: had two levels underneath the main floor. Pretty crazy lot,

901
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: but he had to he inherited two tenants, and so

902
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 1: I forget, you know, I can't can't remember the numbers today,

903
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: but they were covering a substantial, if not all, of

904
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: his mortgage. And I was like, holy crap, like like,

905
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: so you're living for free, that's possible. And and so

906
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: that was another one of those Yeah, and so just

907
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: you know, rental real estate as an idea was introduced,

908
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: and then immediately right after that was the idea of

909
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: house packing. Both of those seeds were planted. But I

910
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: didn't have any money back then. Remember, like I told

911
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: you how I had to take money out of my

912
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: roth Ira in order to move move back down to

913
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 1: Atlanta and to cover a deposit. That kind of stuff.

914
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: That's where I was at that point. So those bigger investments,

915
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: we're not on your radar. It was not a possibility

916
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: at all. I mean, I was like the guy. I

917
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: was like, I helped Clark. I was something my friend

918
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: move into his house, and I was just like the

919
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: muscle because he was gonna pay for pizza and beers.

920
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: For me, it was a free meal. That's good enough.

921
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 1: That's where I was, uh, in my life at that point.

922
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: And so I mean it wasn't for another like I

923
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: think five or six years before rental real estate was

924
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: a possibility, you know. So within that time Kate and

925
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: I got married, we saved up money for a down

926
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: payment for our first personal home, got a little to one.

927
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: But then after that we started saving up some money

928
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: to invest as well, and you know, those seeds that

929
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: had been planted started to germinate a little bit. And

930
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: that's actually when you and I met, uh, and you

931
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: had purchased your first, you know, your own primary residence,

932
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: and we got to talk and found out that you

933
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: were trying to be wise with your money as I was,

934
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: and I think you had shared that you were thinking

935
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: about buying our rental, like because you just had your

936
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: own property at that point. I think right right when

937
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: we met, I think I literally was on the verge

938
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: of pouncing on property number two and running out the

939
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: first one. Yeah, exactly. And so we're like, oh, well,

940
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,479
Speaker 1: I don't want to move, but we've got this money

941
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: saved up and we should put that towards our property.

942
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: So I mean our interactions us talking about it. I

943
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: think certainly gave was very encouraging because it would have

944
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: been a lot tougher for me because I didn't know

945
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: anybody in Atlanta who was doing that at that point

946
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: in time. Right, Like in my mind, I'm like, oh,

947
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: maybe only people in North Carolina do this. I don't know.

948
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: And so to have somebody else who was my age

949
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: who was thinking that, like, oh yeah, houses right now

950
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: are really affordable. This is a really smart move that

951
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: was like the final straw that allowed me to to think, yeah,

952
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: like I am going to do this and yeah, I

953
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: mean I think we both got our both of us

954
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: got our second properties around the same time. Uh, And

955
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: it's like a confidence boost. I think when a friend

956
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: is doing something absolutely and if you can like this

957
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: learned from them as a guinea pig, I think sometimes

958
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: stuff it feels less foreign, you know, just even talking

959
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: about it with somebody else us. Uh, you listen to

960
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: a podcast and hear people talk about it, but when

961
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: you're talking to someone in person who you're close with

962
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: or even just like That's why we encourage people to

963
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: to join like an investor meetup group or something like that,

964
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: like learn from the people that are doing it, and

965
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: they will like they will help demystify some of those

966
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: things that in your mind you have built up to

967
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: be these hurdles that you can't surmount, and it is possible,

968
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,959
Speaker 1: but uh and and you know, we can talk about

969
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: it until we run out of air in our lungs

970
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: and hopefully that will be helpful advice to you. But

971
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: at the same time, meeting individuals where you live who

972
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: are doing it already is like, I think the best

973
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: way to go absolutely And plus I mean ten years ago,

974
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: like there weren't I mean, there weren't real estate real

975
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: estate podcast. Like the only podcast I've ever heard of

976
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: was like this Harry Potter podcast that I gave across.

977
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: It was very much in its infancy, and it was

978
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: just books, you know, like I remember reading The Millionaire

979
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 1: Real Estate Investor by like one of the Kellor Williams

980
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: guys or whatever. But it's there's a big gap between

981
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: reading this massive text book basically to actually pulling the

982
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: trigger and doing that in your local town. And like

983
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: you said, having somebody there locally who you know is

984
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: also doing it. Uh, it kind of gives you the

985
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 1: confidence it allows you to poke holes in each other's

986
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: sort of plans and be like, oh what about this?

987
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: Or or hey, how how are you planning to tackle this?

988
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: That definitely makes it just so much more approachable. Yeah,

989
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: all right, Well, so there's no real resolution to this

990
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: podcast because your story is not complete, Like there's still

991
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of money moves that we're still

992
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: we're still doing it. Yeah, an't we that you're making

993
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: And that's part of the fun of creating this podcast

994
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: is along the way we get to share the things

995
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: that we are doing. You know, we're not We're not

996
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: seventy year old who have like reach the end. Like

997
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: we're in the middle of this with our listeners, um

998
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: hopefully with wisdom to share. But yeah, is there anything

999
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: else that you want to kind of relate to everybody

1000
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: about your story that you think is important? Matt, Before

1001
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: we before we kind of end this one out, I

1002
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: think one of the other things that comes to mind.

1003
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about real estate. I think for

1004
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: anybody out there who is thinking about going in that

1005
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: direction is just to know that this isn't a completely

1006
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 1: passive form of income because the rewards can be quite large,

1007
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: but it does require time. Uh, And so I think

1008
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: anybody who's thinking about doing this, they need to start

1009
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: thinking about it more as like a small part time job,

1010
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: as a side hustle, something that can potentially ramp up

1011
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: and consume a lot of your time, potentially the most

1012
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: lucrative part time job. Absolutely, yeah, especially it is You're right,

1013
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: it is working. We talked about that when the episode

1014
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: we talked about the mists of passive income and how

1015
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: exactly it's not a complete farce, but there is a

1016
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: reality to which if you want passive income, you gotta

1017
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: work for it in in any regard, like it doesn't

1018
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,720
Speaker 1: just kind of you don't like, uh, snap your fingers

1019
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 1: in the passive income fairy comes along and starts stuffing

1020
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: money in your account every month. Yeah, exactly. And so

1021
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: just to think about it that way. I mean, I

1022
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: was talking with a friend over Christmas break. He had

1023
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: had a good year. He was thinking about what to

1024
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: do with some additional money that he had, and he

1025
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: had renovated his own home, and so he's like, you know,

1026
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: I've got these like renovation skills. I know how to

1027
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,720
Speaker 1: make a house look good. He was thinking about buying

1028
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: another property in his neighborhood, working on it, renting it out,

1029
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 1: and and this is the conversation I had with him.

1030
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: I was like, Hey, that's awesome, you know, like the

1031
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: fact that you like, everybody has their own superhero like power,

1032
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: you know, like, and so for him, his sort of

1033
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: superhero strength is the ability to make a property beautiful himself,

1034
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: like without having to hire anybody else. It's just the

1035
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: cost of his tools, the supplies, and his time. But

1036
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: what I wanted him to think through was what his

1037
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: life would look like were he to do that. And

1038
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: he has a full time job. I mean, he owns

1039
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: his own business and it's actually growing and expanding and

1040
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,879
Speaker 1: it's going to look potentially very different this coming year.

1041
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,479
Speaker 1: And so I was like, Okay, imagine you know, doing

1042
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: that from eight to six or whatever it is that

1043
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: you get off work, Like, are you going to have

1044
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: it in you to come home and then clock in

1045
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: another three or four hours hanging drywall at this new

1046
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: property that you found that you want to flip. And

1047
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: that's what we want folks to think through with, you know,

1048
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,479
Speaker 1: with any decision, with any new responsibility, with any way

1049
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 1: that you're thinking about making additional income, right if it's

1050
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: a side hustle, think through what you want your life

1051
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: to look like. Yes, there are oftentimes sacrifices we need

1052
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: to make in the short term to achieve a goal,

1053
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: but do make sure that you are aware of what

1054
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: that's going to look like, because you want to make

1055
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: those decisions with your eyes open. You want to make

1056
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: sure that you're making those decisions informed. Yeah, yeah, you

1057
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: wanted to be a calculated sacrifice because if you can't

1058
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: actually pay the cost you're gonna you might actually lose

1059
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 1: money in their proposition, because yeah, you've got to be

1060
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: willing to follow through for sure. Well, dude, this is

1061
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I'm glad we got to dive

1062
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: into your money story. Hopefully it's just interesting and helpeful

1063
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: for listeners. Quickly, Matt, let's folks know Matt a little

1064
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: bit exactly the like I said, the man the myth legend.

1065
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: More on deck for next week by the most, buddy,

1066
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: I'll be ready. But but we had a beer on

1067
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 1: this episode. This one was athena parody so BlackBerry, Black

1068
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: Current and Ambrosia by of course, Creature Comforts out of Athens, Georgia,

1069
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: where you went to uh to college Alma monitor. That's right, So, yeah,

1070
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: what we thought. Unfortunately that was not a brewer that

1071
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: was there while I was in school, I know, sadly right.

1072
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: If so, though, like what I've even been able to

1073
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: appreciate it, probably probably not. It took me actually growing

1074
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 1: up and being out in the real world and talking

1075
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: about real estate with my friend enjoying my first uh

1076
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: milk stout. I think that was one of my first

1077
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: craft beers where I was like, oh, this is different

1078
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: and all those other beers, but yeah, this is a

1079
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: Berlin of ice. It's a tart German wheat. It poured

1080
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: a dark crimson red, like a very luxurious color. It's

1081
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 1: just like a purplish hue too. It Yeah, it's really

1082
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: beautiful and I really enjoyed this one. Like the other

1083
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: variations of Athena, it's got that nice wheaty backbone. But

1084
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 1: obviously with this one with the added fruit just as

1085
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: that they call it paradiso because it's like you're in paradise.

1086
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: It's like you're surrounded by just all this luxurious fruit.

1087
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: In this case ambrosia as as well is the ambrosia

1088
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: of fruit, Like I know, Ambrosia salad is like uh,

1089
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: you know that's where they add marshmallows to various questions.

1090
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what what's an ambrosia?

1091
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: What's an ambrosia? Like I have to look that up

1092
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 1: after the episode. But I really enjoyed it. What your thoughts. Yeah,

1093
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: I thought it was like rich in velvety and had

1094
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: like this medium tartness level going on. It's the first

1095
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: time I've had this version. Like you said, they make variants,

1096
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: and I think, don't don't say variant, Joel, variation, Well,

1097
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 1: I think one of my it's a good point. I think,

1098
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: uh probably my favorite variation is still the one that

1099
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: we do with with Tart Cherry's It's delicious. But this

1100
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: one was really good, better than this was expected. And

1101
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 1: so yeah, again another winner from Creature Comforts because they

1102
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: don't lose, man, they always make good to do a

1103
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: very good job. Be sure to swing by Creature Comforts

1104
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 1: if you're ever in Athens, Georgia. But Joel, I feel

1105
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: like I did a lot of talking, but I didn't

1106
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: like direct the show quite as much. But you did

1107
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: a fantastic job. Thank you, my friend. It was fun.

1108
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: It was it was fun. Yeah, and uh yeah, Unfortunately,

1109
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: we can only do these, like, I don't know, like

1110
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: once every few years. I guess we interview each other.

1111
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: It has to be like a different twist on it

1112
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: next time we do it, that's right. But yeah, all right,

1113
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: well yeah, well, if you are curious about hearing my

1114
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 1: money story, you'll get to hear that on next Wednesday's episode,

1115
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: But Matt, until next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,