Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: Somebody in the organization made a call and I respect that.
Speaker 2: I mean, are we going to get these calls right?
Speaker 2: Every day there's one hundred calls we've made to exit
Speaker 2: stuff that actually didn't end up being successful. Do you
Speaker 2: regret it or do you deal with what you can control,
Speaker 2: which is what do we have ahead of us? And
Speaker 2: I am much more of a philosophy. Focus on what
Speaker 2: you can control makes life much easier because then you
Speaker 2: can actually look forward rather than keep looking back.
Speaker 3: I'm Francis Laqua and this is Leaders, the podcast that
Speaker 3: really explores what drives the world's most influential people. This
Speaker 3: week's episode is well so on the chief executive of Shell,
Speaker 3: Europe's largest oil company. We spoke at the end of
Speaker 3: last year, because when you have an opportunity to speak
Speaker 3: to the chief executive of Europe's largest oil company, you
Speaker 3: take it. So the conversation was before the US attack
Speaker 3: on Venezuela and its capture of President Maduro, and it
Speaker 3: was also before the US Israel war with Iran. And
Speaker 3: while recent events have really upended the global energy industry.
Speaker 3: So once time at Shell has drawn praise, especially for
Speaker 3: his focus on controlling costs. Since taking over in early
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, Shell has outperformed its big oil rifles
Speaker 3: as a leader in a challenging and increasingly volatile landscape.
Speaker 3: I was keen to hear about the moment so one
Speaker 3: knew he was being considered for Shell's top job. Also
Speaker 3: his controversial choice to pivot away from renewables and his
Speaker 3: advice on how to be decisive about investment. Well, thank
Speaker 3: you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Rassie, and great to be here.
Speaker 3: What kind of leader are you?
Speaker 2: Look, I've learned I think through first of my father
Speaker 2: to start people here. I remember when he retired, he
Speaker 2: worked for three AM. He sort of said at the
Speaker 2: time business results are important, but when you leave, the
Speaker 2: number of Christmas hampers you get after you have retired
Speaker 2: from people whose lives you've influenced will be what actually counts.
Speaker 2: And so I've always believed you have to start with people.
Speaker 3: You're an oil executive, and I can figure out whether
Speaker 3: you're even maybe you know you get more heat than bankers.
Speaker 3: Does that bother you?
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't, because I think the issues we're trying
Speaker 2: to sort of work around are really tough issues and
Speaker 2: positions of leadership demands a burden of responsibility. I don't
Speaker 2: think that should be unexpected. What I need to be
Speaker 2: able to do is to make sure that my compass
Speaker 2: is clear, and so I spend quite a bit of
Speaker 2: time in introspection and reflection, and then it's how to
Speaker 2: mobilize our organization to deliver.
Speaker 3: Well, what's the introspection look like?
Speaker 2: It starts with actually recognizing that the world around us
Speaker 2: is moving at an incredibly fast pace, whether it's you
Speaker 2: political changes that we see at the moment, technological changes
Speaker 2: with AI climate, and therefore the world that we have
Speaker 2: come from, in particular a company like ours very strong
Speaker 2: engineering culture. In general, we need to move from an
Speaker 2: all knowing culture to an all learning culture because the
Speaker 2: world is just unpredictable, it's uncertain, it's not linear.
Speaker 3: As an engineer, does it mean you can take emotion
Speaker 3: out of it when you problem solve?
Speaker 2: I think you can, but I don't think that's healthy.
Speaker 2: I think at the heart of it, and it's one
Speaker 2: of my own developments when I get too strategic about things.
Speaker 2: Good counsel from colleagues around me has been great. You're
Speaker 2: in head mode, make sure that you also touch into heart. Note,
Speaker 2: because I don't think you want a divorce head and
Speaker 2: heart even when you're making some of these tough decisions.
Speaker 3: Well, when did you first start being like that? You
Speaker 3: remember the first memory as a child that you already
Speaker 3: wanted to think with mind and heart.
Speaker 2: I was the captain of our high school SoC team,
Speaker 2: and I remember the burden of responsibility at that time
Speaker 2: we lost the tournament that we were competing for, and
Speaker 2: the challenge of lifting up a group of around fifteen
Speaker 2: sixteen people at the time while figuring out how I
Speaker 2: lift my own self up. I think was one of
Speaker 2: my first experiences with leadership. But it was addictive, It
Speaker 2: was great, and it was depressing, and it was disappointing,
Speaker 2: but it was all all these emotions at the same time,
Speaker 2: and it was a great opportunity. Then as I grew
Speaker 2: in my life career, I had more and more opportunities
Speaker 2: to test that. I remember once being given my first
Speaker 2: leadership opportunity at CHEL and this poor individual who was
Speaker 2: reporting into me. I tried to apply all of the
Speaker 2: potential leadership learnings on this one guy that you learned
Speaker 2: during your MBA that I learned during my MBA that
Speaker 2: I'd read a lot about, and this poor individual had
Speaker 2: to sort of succumb to all of the leadership one
Speaker 2: oh one.
Speaker 3: What does that look like?
Speaker 2: How do I make sure that I am providing him
Speaker 2: as development plan? How do I intervene to support him
Speaker 2: on a daily basis? How do I coach?
Speaker 3: Did he say, well, I'm O gay or super gentle?
Speaker 2: And he never pushed back. But as I reflected, as
Speaker 2: I sort of grew in my role, I'm like, poor
Speaker 2: individual must have just been cursing the moment that he
Speaker 2: got me as a leader.
Speaker 3: What did you learn about yourself actually in that first
Speaker 3: leadership role?
Speaker 2: I think I learned that I have natural biases, right,
Speaker 2: so I love to be out with people. I'm an
Speaker 2: extrovert by nature. But put me into a room on
Speaker 2: strategic issues and I can focus a lot more on
Speaker 2: that head than the heart. I also learned around just
Speaker 2: the way I drive performance in an organization, finding the
Speaker 2: right balance of when do I reach in and push
Speaker 2: hard or when do I step back and create space?
Speaker 2: When am I more the advocate the supporter, and when
Speaker 2: am I more the individual who is actually catalyzing a change?
Speaker 3: But well, I Mischelle is one of the biggest energy
Speaker 3: companies in the world. So when do you ever step
Speaker 3: back and give space.
Speaker 2: What I've seen in my last three years in the
Speaker 2: job is I've gone through phases. The early phase was
Speaker 2: all about really step in and stabilize the company, really
Speaker 2: get it into the performance discipline that I was hoping
Speaker 2: we can get to a leaner, fitter, much more competitive company.
Speaker 2: We're very clear on the strategy we want to implement.
Speaker 2: I can now step back more and more and actually
Speaker 2: do have time to reflect what are the moves we
Speaker 2: want to make, Go out, connect with people, be inspired
Speaker 2: by different ideas from the ones we have Internally. I'm
Speaker 2: finding more and more of that space, but that's partly
Speaker 2: because we have done a lot of the heavy lifting
Speaker 2: to be able to get clear on where we want
Speaker 2: to go. And we've put some terrific people in place
Speaker 2: to be able to lead their respective businesses and functions.
Speaker 3: So is a secret to a good manager or being
Speaker 3: good leader being able to adapt to the situation. So
Speaker 3: no when to push and no when to reflect.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I saw that early in my career. I had
Speaker 2: just successfully concluded a leadership rule in Ata at the time,
Speaker 2: and I assumed that that leadership posture style was going
Speaker 2: to serve me in a different role when I was
Speaker 2: going to New Orleans, and I was absolutely wrong. I
Speaker 2: needed to very quickly understand and diagnose what the challenges were,
Speaker 2: what the opportunities were, what the strength of this team was,
Speaker 2: and to be able to adapt my style to be
Speaker 2: able to help them unlock their full potential.
Speaker 3: After the break, we discuss how while Sawan prepared for
Speaker 3: the biggest job of his career, it's normal to have
Speaker 3: an inkling you are being considered for a new job,
Speaker 3: but it's always hard to be sure. He was in Qatar,
Speaker 3: when he held significant leadership roles that Sawan realized he
Speaker 3: might be in the running for the top job at SHELL.
Speaker 3: I really wanted to hear about this moment and how
Speaker 3: he transitioned from the candidate to chief executive. When you
Speaker 3: look at your career, how much of a I guess
Speaker 3: game changer was that big Catter job.
Speaker 2: It was a huge game changer, a huge game changer.
Speaker 3: Did you understand at the time that there were maybe
Speaker 3: testing you to then become chief executive?
Speaker 2: Of course, it was the sort of job that you
Speaker 2: figured you were on a good track. And Shell. I'll
Speaker 2: be honest with you, it took me a while to
Speaker 2: recognize and to convince myself that I was in line
Speaker 2: one day to become the CEO, because you know, you're
Speaker 2: trying to do the best that you can in the
Speaker 2: jobs that you have. But I can tell you almost
Speaker 2: every single job that I had been given in Shell,
Speaker 2: I thought there were others who were more qualified than
Speaker 2: I was. And so it created that not in my
Speaker 2: stomach going into the job, I need to work harder,
Speaker 2: I need to do better. And so Cutter was one
Speaker 2: of those moments for me. It was a difficult rule
Speaker 2: because the two three weeks after I stepped into a rule,
Speaker 2: we had the safety incident where we lost two of
Speaker 2: our colleagues. I struggled as a leader because it was
Speaker 2: under my watch that we had lost those two people,
Speaker 2: two colleagues whose families I knew, and it catalyzed us
Speaker 2: into a different place. It catalyzed us into space whereas
Speaker 2: a group we had to figure out how do we
Speaker 2: heal and then how do we reach to the stars.
Speaker 3: So when you have a new job, be it a
Speaker 3: catter or then CEO, how do you problem solve? How
Speaker 3: do you first of all spend a bit of time
Speaker 3: understanding what you need to fix and then go about
Speaker 3: fixing it.
Speaker 2: I spend a lot of time once I know I'm
Speaker 2: in a new job, just meeting with folks both internally
Speaker 2: and externally, to be able to just listen to perspectives.
Speaker 2: Where are the value polls, how a shell doing? What
Speaker 2: can we do better? What are the benchmarks telling us?
Speaker 2: I then like to move into a space of actually
Speaker 2: creating clarity of direction, because I find an organization is
Speaker 2: not at its best without that clarity. And so after that,
Speaker 2: for me is the next step, which is really setting
Speaker 2: that direction. We've done that in my role as CEO,
Speaker 2: but more and more we linked it to the purpose
Speaker 2: of what we want to do to become that leading
Speaker 2: integrated energy company.
Speaker 3: Oil companies for a lot of moment we're also kind
Speaker 3: of integral to the energy transition. Right A lot was
Speaker 3: put on oil companies to make sure that you did
Speaker 3: your part to become cleaner and greener. Is that fair?
Speaker 2: I think it's absolutely fair that we, along with the
Speaker 2: multiple other stakeholders, have a role to play in the
Speaker 2: energy transition. So customers have a big role to play,
Speaker 2: governments have a big role to play. Energy producers like
Speaker 2: ourselves have a big role to play, and what we
Speaker 2: have found as a company is we have to play
Speaker 2: to our competitive strengths. So yes, we're very strong in oil,
Speaker 2: we're very strong in gas, We're very strong in trading,
Speaker 2: very strong in marketing. So how do we take that
Speaker 2: nexcess of strengths that we have and actually contribute to
Speaker 2: an energy transition that we know is not going to
Speaker 2: be linear, that we know is going to be complex,
Speaker 2: And how do we become a stabilizing factor for our
Speaker 2: customers as they try to navigate it.
Speaker 3: You were speaking very plainly three years ago, right when
Speaker 3: you became chief executive, when some of your rivals or
Speaker 3: competitors were trying to say, like, look, we're going to
Speaker 3: be quite good, Actually we're almost renewables company. Were you
Speaker 3: just more honest than some of your competitors?
Speaker 2: I think for quite some time, what we had been
Speaker 2: trying to do is maybe speak to multiple stakeholders, and
Speaker 2: unfortunately that can come across as almost being all things
Speaker 2: to all people. I felt it was really important to
Speaker 2: one build our own beliefs around the energy system, really
Speaker 2: get clear what our role was going to be, and
Speaker 2: then just say it for what it was recognizing that
Speaker 2: not everyone was going to agree with it, that we're
Speaker 2: always going to have also a small group of avid supporters,
Speaker 2: and that what was important was for those eighty percent
Speaker 2: seventy percent in the middle to hear our convictions and
Speaker 2: then most importantly, to see us follow through on those convictions.
Speaker 2: And so what we wanted to do was to position
Speaker 2: ourselves as a player that is supporting the energy of
Speaker 2: today while looking forward. And it wasn't about choosing sides.
Speaker 2: It was about finding the role that we can uniquely
Speaker 2: play to be able to address energy security, energy affordability,
Speaker 2: and energy sustainability. And people, I think some would prefer
Speaker 2: it's either this or that you felt. No, we are
Speaker 2: building a company that we want to be the best performing,
Speaker 2: best returning company, not just today but for decades to come,
Speaker 2: and therefore it's incumbent upon us to be able to
Speaker 2: look at not just the energy system of today, but
Speaker 2: to help shape the energy system of the future as well.
Speaker 3: When we come back, I speak to well so one
Speaker 3: about making decisions and managing regrets. Big decisions have shaped
Speaker 3: Swan's time at Shell. Some before he became chief executive,
Speaker 3: Others on his watch, there's a sale of its Permian
Speaker 3: base and assets for nine point five billion dollars during COVID,
Speaker 3: which was seen as a coup for the buyer, Conico Phillips,
Speaker 3: and the earlier exit from Guyana before it became one
Speaker 3: of the world's hottest frontier oil plays. Different moments, different leadership,
Speaker 3: but both raised big questions about long term value. In
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, Shell decides to sell the eure basically Permian assets.
Speaker 2: Was that a mistake, No, it wasn't the mistake At
Speaker 2: the time what we were trying to do it was
Speaker 2: a very different context. We had a significant amount of debt.
Speaker 2: We needed to be able to actually pay down some
Speaker 2: of that debt to become a much healthier company. We
Speaker 2: had tried, actually before the sale of the Permian to
Speaker 2: look at buying and growing our permium position. We competed
Speaker 2: in a couple of different processes and were not successful.
Speaker 2: So we were getting to the point where our position
Speaker 2: was just not large enough, not material enough to be
Speaker 2: able to win. And so what we ended up doing
Speaker 2: is we sold indeed the Permian and we use some
Speaker 2: of those funds to be able to pay down debt
Speaker 2: and continue to strengthen the balance sheet. Today we enjoy
Speaker 2: one of the strongest balance sheets in the sector as
Speaker 2: a result of many of the choices that we have
Speaker 2: been making over the recent years.
Speaker 3: It could have been a great asset. So is your
Speaker 3: philosophy or regrets? Do you sometimes think about what could
Speaker 3: have been?
Speaker 2: We always look back. I mean every single year I
Speaker 2: take to my board what we call a post investment review.
Speaker 2: It's all the good, the bad, and the ugly of
Speaker 2: where we have invested, the choices we have made. Because
Speaker 2: it's humbling to be able to sort of look back
Speaker 2: with the benefit of hindsight and say what went wrong?
Speaker 2: What went right? Sometimes it's execution. Sometimes it's our view
Speaker 2: of the strategic lens that we looked at the world through.
Speaker 2: But it's important to continue to look at that, not
Speaker 2: to regret it, but much more to learn from it
Speaker 2: as we look to then build the muscle for the future.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it told me about Guiana. It could have been
Speaker 3: one of the most important assets. Right for shell regrets there?
Speaker 2: Look again, I mean we empower people in the organization
Speaker 2: to be able to meet budgetary requirements. We just had
Speaker 2: a couple of wells that hadn't succeeded. Somebody in the
Speaker 2: organization made a call, and I respect that. I mean,
Speaker 2: are we going to get these calls right? Every day
Speaker 2: there's one hundred calls we've made to exit stuff that
Speaker 2: actually didn't end up being successful. Again, do you regret it?
Speaker 2: Or do you deal with what you can control, which
Speaker 2: is what do we have ahead of us? And I
Speaker 2: am much more of a philosophy. Focus on what you
Speaker 2: can control makes life much easier because then you can
Speaker 2: actually look forward rather than keep looking back.
Speaker 3: Okay, so what can you control now?
Speaker 2: What you can control is becoming that leaner, fitter, most
Speaker 2: competitive company. Make sure that you continue to build resilience,
Speaker 2: get that balance sheet in a very strong position, get
Speaker 2: your businesses delivering cash, and making sure that you are ready.
Speaker 2: Because the world around us is uncertain. We need to
Speaker 2: be able to actually have the strength to go through
Speaker 2: the cycles and to generate value and grow through those cycles.
Speaker 2: That's what we can control.
Speaker 3: Well, it's bigger better. I know again that rumors of
Speaker 3: a combination between SHELL and BP keep on swirling around,
Speaker 3: and they've been doing so for years. Conceptually, with something
Speaker 3: as big as that makes sense.
Speaker 2: I don't start from a position that Bigger is better.
Speaker 2: Undoubtedly there are parts of our business where scale matters, right,
Speaker 2: because scale allows you to be able to be competitive.
Speaker 2: You can spread your resources in some of the areas
Speaker 2: where you can unlock a bit more value. But scale
Speaker 2: for the sake of scale is mistaken. Some of the
Speaker 2: largest MNA deals are the least successful MNA deals because
Speaker 2: they are massively complex. So I start more from a
Speaker 2: place of focus on what your strength are. If you're
Speaker 2: ever going to do m and A, first set a
Speaker 2: very high bar, make sure that you can create value
Speaker 2: from it, and then if you transact, put all of
Speaker 2: your efforts into making sure that it delivers value. But
Speaker 2: do it for the right reasons. Don't do it because
Speaker 2: of FOMO, don't do it because you want to be bigger.
Speaker 2: Do it because it creates value for your shareholders.
Speaker 3: Longer term, we've seen loads of m and A and
Speaker 3: banking actually fail because the DNA of the culture was different,
Speaker 3: because the team didn't work together, be at risk, take
Speaker 3: or something like that. Is it the same for oil companies?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I think DNA does matter. Culture does matter, and
Speaker 2: again it depends on the scale of the aggregation of
Speaker 2: the companies. But if it's two big companies coming together.
Speaker 2: I would say culture is one of the biggest things
Speaker 2: you need to be able to look at.
Speaker 3: What do you say the culture of Shell is like.
Speaker 2: So I think our strength has always been the nature
Speaker 2: of the company is high values. That's one of the
Speaker 2: reasons I joined Shell. It's a company that focuses on respect,
Speaker 2: on integrity. But we're trying to evolve the culture further.
Speaker 2: We want to have more edge in our performance focus.
Speaker 2: We want to look at leveraging more the different parts
Speaker 2: of Shelter unlock value. We call it one Shell how
Speaker 2: we are able to truly come together as an organization.
Speaker 2: So there are elements that play into that. I'd say
Speaker 2: at the heart of the cultural shift that we're trying
Speaker 2: to make is the point I made earlier around going
Speaker 2: from an all knowwer and all learner. Because of our
Speaker 2: engineering culture, we like to solve for discrete outcomes and
Speaker 2: that's what we built and it's been successful for us
Speaker 2: for decades, over a century. And as we go into
Speaker 2: the energy transition, as we go into the world that
Speaker 2: we're going into also with the advent of AI and
Speaker 2: how you leverage AI and what we do with some
Speaker 2: of the challenges we see on the geopolitical level, we
Speaker 2: have an opportunity to be able to have the humility
Speaker 2: to actually step back and reflect. How do we change,
Speaker 2: how do we challenge the paradigms we have had in
Speaker 2: the past, and how do we come up with new
Speaker 2: ways of being able to steward the company.
Speaker 3: But if you look at the numbers of how much
Speaker 3: energy we need also to just face the data centers
Speaker 3: and AI usage, I mean, the numbers are so big
Speaker 3: it's almost difficult to get your head round it. Do
Speaker 3: you have to foresee the future or do you need
Speaker 3: to just react in a way that's in your control.
Speaker 2: I think you have to have a clear view of
Speaker 2: the energy system. And I would agree with your frenzy
Speaker 2: and I think at the end of the day, we
Speaker 2: see that primary energy demand is going to continue to
Speaker 2: grow for quite some time by a lot, bio lot,
Speaker 2: and it's been happening. I mean people talk about energy transition.
Speaker 2: Of course, what we have been seeing is energy edition.
Speaker 2: We are at peak oil demand, peak coal demand, peak
Speaker 2: gas demand, peak renewables demand, peak biodemand the world is
Speaker 2: trying to get its hands on all forms of energy.
Speaker 2: For many of the reasons that you talked about. So
Speaker 2: while we cannot predict the future, what we can do
Speaker 2: is sort of really make some very clear deterministic bets
Speaker 2: on the future. One is gas for us, for example,
Speaker 2: we see gas as being a stabilizing force in energy
Speaker 2: systems that continue to transform. That allows us to be
Speaker 2: able to say, okay, we are one of the biggest,
Speaker 2: we are the largest international player in LNG, and make
Speaker 2: sure that you continue to play that with lower and
Speaker 2: lower methane emissions, but really be there to give our
Speaker 2: customers that versatile, reliable feel that day.
Speaker 3: Seek Well, what's your north star? So if you look
Speaker 3: at your day, how much is it meetings you know,
Speaker 3: or things that you need to deal with that you
Speaker 3: could have that you want to preempt, and how much
Speaker 3: of it is actually firefighting.
Speaker 2: The ratio, i would say, has swung more and more
Speaker 2: to actually controlling my own agenda. When you start, you're
Speaker 2: still learning, you're sort of responding to different stimuli, and
Speaker 2: now I've had the opportunity to actually shape that. My
Speaker 2: coach has sort of told me the most important thing
Speaker 2: you should be doing is to be purposeful. By the way,
Speaker 2: some of that day is spent having dinner with the
Speaker 2: kids and my wife be purposeful and be present in
Speaker 2: that moment, and other parts of the day are about
Speaker 2: self exercise, Jim, or of course at work. Really be
Speaker 2: purposeful in this meeting. Are we trying to open up
Speaker 2: people's minds to what's possible in that meeting? Are we
Speaker 2: trying to address a particular challenge that needs a decisiveness
Speaker 2: in the moment? Really just being choiceful and purposeful in
Speaker 2: the way that one conducts themselves. I think if I
Speaker 2: can get to that level of sophistication, then I will
Speaker 2: feel that the day that I'm spending is worth every
Speaker 2: minute that I've spending it.
Speaker 3: Does that have to be in everything you do? So
Speaker 3: as while as the dads and while the CEO.
Speaker 2: I think in positions like this, it is even more
Speaker 2: important to be conscious of that purposefulness because it is
Speaker 2: so easy. You can come back home and your mind's
Speaker 2: still distracted and thinking about work and trying to be
Speaker 2: there having dinner, but really sort of your mind's not there.
Speaker 2: You have to be able to actually create the space
Speaker 2: and the time to be there, to be present, And
Speaker 2: it's one of the things I continue to work on
Speaker 2: as a leader.
Speaker 3: Do your kids talk about climate change? They do back.
Speaker 3: They do.
Speaker 2: Actually, it's more from a position of curiosity. They hear
Speaker 2: different perspectives and they say, I think I trust you.
Speaker 2: I'm to get your perspective on it. So we end
Speaker 2: up talking about it. We talk about politics, we talk
Speaker 2: about life, we talk about leadership. They've gotten to an
Speaker 2: age now where they have a lot more curiosity where
Speaker 2: they're studying about some of these things, and sometimes the
Speaker 2: studies sort of end up giving a singular perspective. Their
Speaker 2: keen to be able to understand the broader perspectives.
Speaker 3: Do you think Shell will be radically different in five
Speaker 3: years or significantly different?
Speaker 2: I think the pace at which the energy system is
Speaker 2: changing means that we will need to continue to evolve.
Speaker 2: I don't think one should expect a wholesale change of
Speaker 2: what we do today. I think hydrocarbons will continue to
Speaker 2: be a big part of what our business is. How
Speaker 2: we prosecute our business I think will change significantly. In particular,
Speaker 2: we see AI just starting to influence every part of
Speaker 2: how we work. We have evolved as a company over
Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty five years, and so it's not
Speaker 2: unexpected to see us evolve in the next five years
Speaker 2: and in the next twenty years and hopefully we'll be
Speaker 2: here for at least another one hundred plus.
Speaker 3: What do you want your legacy to be?
Speaker 2: When I was recruited into this position, in the final
Speaker 2: interview with the board, I said, one of the biggest
Speaker 2: things I hope to be able to leave behind whenever
Speaker 2: I move on is an organization that is better than
Speaker 2: when I inherited. And the biggest thing for me has
Speaker 2: been the people. I do think being able to develop
Speaker 2: the next culture of leaders in Shell is one of
Speaker 2: the things that both excites me the most and I
Speaker 2: feel most urgently I need to be able to achieve.
Speaker 2: And the reason I say that what I love about
Speaker 2: this company is it is an institution. We are all replaceable,
Speaker 2: that the institution and its values outlive you.
Speaker 3: How difficult is it to groom your possible replacement.
Speaker 2: I'm spoiled in a company like Shell given the talent
Speaker 2: pace we have. We have brilliant people, so for us,
Speaker 2: we have very very deep succession planning. We have very
Speaker 2: deep talent programs, so it allows us to know some
Speaker 2: of our emerging talent in year five of their ten
Speaker 2: year even if they're in their early thirties, to be
Speaker 2: able to allow us to see who might one day
Speaker 2: get to the top table, and what are the experiences
Speaker 2: we need to give them to be able to get there,
Speaker 2: and what are the leadership opportunities we need to expose
Speaker 2: them to. The biggest thing you can do for an
Speaker 2: institution like this is make sure that you make it
Speaker 2: stronger when you leave it. If I can do that
Speaker 2: in my tenure, I'll be a very happy man.
Speaker 3: Well, how do you recharge exercise?
Speaker 2: Do Jim? When I get back from work and I
Speaker 2: try to make it.
Speaker 3: Consistent, is it difficult to switch off? Uh?
Speaker 2: Not difficult to switch off. I find myself in the
Speaker 2: right headspace when I need to switch off, and I
Speaker 2: force myself to do so. Good sleep is key.
Speaker 3: If you had to write a book today, what would
Speaker 3: it be on leadership?
Speaker 2: I think it would be on just learnings, failings, challenges
Speaker 2: and what I took away from it.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much for your time today, pleasure.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me FROMCIE.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to this episode of leaders with me
Speaker 3: Francin Lackwell. If you like our show, please rate, review
Speaker 3: and subscribe. Thanks so much to those who've left comments,
Speaker 3: Keep them coming. And keep sharing with friends and if
Speaker 3: you want to watch the show, please find us on YouTube.
Speaker 3: This episode was hosted by me Francis Laqua. It was
Speaker 3: produced by Atalandi Dixon, Sersadi and Moses and dam Amy.
Speaker 3: Keen is the executive producer of Talk Podcasts. Sound designed
Speaker 3: by Blake Maples and Aaron Casper. Special thanks to Elsa
Speaker 3: Juan and the team Matshelle