1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Hi. This is due to the virus. I'm recording from home, 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: so you may notice a difference in audio quality on 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: this episode of News World. The Democratic effort to remove 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: President Trump from office was a calculated hit shot which 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: started when Bob Muller was hired to lead the Special 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: Counsel investigation to the ultimate showdown with the sentence in 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: peachment Trump. This dramatic attempted coup, which every American witnessed, 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: is the subject of Byron York's new book, Obsession Inside 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: the Washington Establishments, Never Ending War on Trump. I've known 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: Barron for many years. He is a remarkable a reporter 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: and a great analyst. He's the chief political correspondent for 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: the Washington Examiner and a Fox News contributor. Discovered the Bush, 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: Obama and Trump administrations, as well as Congress and every 14 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: presidential campaign since two thouves. He was previously the White 15 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: House correspondent for National Review. I'm fascinated because I do 16 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: have such great respect for you, to say, an analyst 17 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: and a very very thoughtful student of politics and government, 18 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: why did you decide to write Obsession Inside the Washington Establishments, 19 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: Never Ending War on Trump. Thank you very much for 20 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: having me. I appreciate those kind words. First of all, 21 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: nobody had. There had been some excellent books on the 22 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: Russia affair by Andy McCarthy and others, but they were 23 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: a year or two ago, and nobody caught the whole 24 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: span of time, from the beginning of the Muller investigation, 25 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: the roots of the Muller investigation, all the way through 26 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: the impeachment. And I really wanted to treat it as 27 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: one thing, and actually Speaker Nancy Pelosi helped me frame this. 28 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: Go back to December twenty nineteen, which is less than 29 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: a year ago. Democrats in the House were rushing to 30 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: impeach the president by Christmas, and a reporter asked Pelosi, 31 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: what's the hurry here, Why the rush, and she said, 32 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: there is no rush. This has been going on two 33 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: and a half years since Muller, and a lot of 34 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: Republicans really took note and they thought, wow, she has 35 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,119 Speaker 1: finally spoken the truth out loud. Here this impeachment we're 36 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: talking about, it's not really about Ukraine, it's not really 37 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: about a phone call. It is a continuation of a 38 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: long effort to impeach the president and remove him from 39 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 1: office that started with the roots of the Mueller investigation 40 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: as early as April seventeenth, twenty sixteen, before he's even elected. 41 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: In fact, at that point, before he's even nominated, political 42 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: published a piece and called could Trump be impeached? Shortly 43 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: after he takes office, and November eleventh, the Nark Times 44 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: David Brooks devoted an entire column to the possibility of 45 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: moving Trump from office. Why do you think the left 46 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: went so crazy? That is a good question, I think 47 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: as far as the left is concerned, you have to 48 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: remember when Barack Obama is elected president in two thousand 49 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: and eight, there's a lot of celebration because they believe 50 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: Democrats have kind of cracked the code of winning the 51 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: presidency from now on. There's a new coalition of minorities, 52 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: young people, and women that elected President Obama and reelected 53 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: him in twenty twelve, and they believe would grow with 54 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: the steady increase of the Hispanic population in the United States, 55 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: and those two things, this new Obama coalition and demographic change, 56 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: they believed would mean that Democrats would be elected president 57 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: from now on. And as it turned out, Hillary Clinton 58 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: was not able to reassemble the Obama coalition in the 59 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: numbers that she needed to get elected. So this dream 60 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: kind of had a rude ending with the election of Trump, 61 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: and they were extraordinarily angry. And I tell a story 62 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: that Republicans in the House don't really understand how angry 63 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: their Democratic colleagues were. So January sixth, twenty seventeen, so 64 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: Trump has been elected. He has not been sworn in yet, 65 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: but the Congress meets to certify the results of the 66 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: Electoral College. Now this is a total done deal at 67 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: this point. It's a ceremonial event, and each state stands 68 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: and their electoral votes are certified, and Republicans are stunned 69 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: when a number of Democrats try to stop the proceedings. 70 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,799 Speaker 1: They protest the certification of electoral votes from several states 71 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: on the basis that Russia got Trump elected. And it 72 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: didn't work, obviously, but Republicans were really kind of amazed. 73 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: They thought, wow, I mean, we knew you guys were 74 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: unhappy that Hillary Clinton lost, but we didn't know you 75 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: were this mad. And the next two years was a 76 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: continuation of revelations like this. Two Republicans as they realize 77 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: the intensity of feeling on the Democratic side, since that 78 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: was a period when there was a Republican majority in 79 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: the House. Can you imagine that same level of anger 80 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: if Trump once again wins in the electoral college and 81 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: now you're ever a Democratic majority that doesn't want to 82 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: seek people. I think one of the things I felt 83 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: by the time I got to the end of the book, 84 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: which ends with the president's acquittal in the impeachment trial, 85 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: I thought, if he is reelected, the intensity of the 86 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: feeling against him will only be higher. Accept Democrats will 87 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: have used the constitutional and legal remedies they have to 88 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: try to remove a president from office. They've already impeached him, 89 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: and I suppose they could impeach him again. We have 90 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: seen talk about Democrats trying not to recognize the if 91 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: Trump indeed does win a victory, and I think if 92 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: he wins a victory, it'll have to involve victory in 93 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: the electoral college, and may just involve victory in the 94 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: electro college and not in the popular vote. So I 95 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: really think we could be an uncharted territory if Trump 96 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: does win reelection. So you record in your book the 97 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: steady growing momentum. I think the early speeches for impeachment 98 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: were not particularly strongly supported, and the first vote an 99 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: impeachment really only got a very small minority of the 100 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: House Democrats. I think they have fifty eight votes for 101 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: impeachment in December of twenty seventeen, but the drumbeat just continues. Well, 102 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: the view was that fifty eight was actually pretty big 103 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: because what had happened is Representative Al Green, Democrat from Texas, 104 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: was the most persistent an energetic proponent of impeachment of 105 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: President Trump. People don't remember this, but Robert Muller was 106 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: appointed on May seventeenth, twenty seventeen. Obviously, it dominated the 107 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: news that day so much so that people don't remember. 108 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: On that day, May seventeenth came the first formal call 109 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: on the floor of the House of Representatives to impeach 110 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: the president, and Representative Aal Green made that call, and 111 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: basically he just bugged the Republican leadership for the next 112 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: several months, and Republicans believed that he would be able 113 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: to force a vote at some point on his article's impeachment, 114 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: which by the way, would have removed the president for 115 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: disrespecting Kaepernick and the NFL. So this was not a 116 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: Russia based impeachment. The leadership Speaker Paul Ryan and Steve Scalise. 117 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: The whip allowed this vote, and fifty eight Democrats voted 118 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: to impeach the president in December of twenty seventeen, and 119 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: the Republicans thought it would be literally a handful, and 120 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: it wasn't. And that number did grow and throughout twenty eighteen, 121 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: which was the midterm election year, the Democratic strategy was 122 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: to not talk about impeachment publicly on the campaign trail, 123 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: but to plan for it privately, and the support for 124 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: impeachment grew throughout twenty eighteen, even though Democrats didn't talk 125 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: a lot about it and the press didn't talk a 126 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: lot about it. Their goal was to win the majority, 127 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: but they then clearly had a sense that they were 128 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: going to try to impeach. Why did Pelosi switch was 129 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: she spent a long period of time trying to avoid it. Right, 130 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: Pelosi had always said that she of course was in 131 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: the House in the minority during the Clinton impeachment, and 132 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: she believed that Republicans paid a terrible price for this. 133 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: Now I know who I'm talking to. You were involved 134 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: in all this. But her argument to Democrats was, look, 135 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: it didn't work for Republicans in nineteen ninety eight, ninety 136 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: nine and it won't work for us, But that number 137 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: of Democrats who wanted to impeach the president kept growing. 138 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: And one of the things I discuss here is that 139 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: there's a symbiotic relationship between the Special Counsel's Office and 140 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: the House of Representatives. The Special Counsel had all the 141 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: powers of US law enforcement subpoena powers, evidence powers, all 142 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: sorts of powers authorities of US law enforcement, but it 143 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: could not indict the president, could not charge him with 144 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: the crime, get him convicted and removing from office. On 145 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: the other hand, the House did not have those law 146 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: enforcement powers, but it had the constitutional authority to impeach 147 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: the president if a majority supported that. If you listen 148 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: to Democrats throughout twenty eighteen, that was three word impeachment strategy, 149 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: which is wait for Muller, and they believe that Mueller 150 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: would deliver them because they absolutely believed in collusion. They 151 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: thought it was a real thing. They watched Rachel Maddow 152 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: who told him it was a real thing, and they 153 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: watched CNN told him it was a real thing, and 154 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: they believed it. So their strategy was to wait for Muller, 155 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: win the majority, and at that point Muller would give 156 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: them a roadmap and they would impeach Trump. But it 157 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: doesn't work because Mueller doesn't give them a moment. What's 158 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: interesting here is when Muller is first appointed on May seventeen, 159 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, he immediately begins to look for collusion, and 160 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: he looks in all the places that you knew about 161 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: if you read the newspapers at the time. He looked 162 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: into the Carter Page case because Page had taken a 163 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: trip to give a speech in Moscow in July twenty sixteen. 164 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: Looked into that. He looked into George Papadopoulos. He looked 165 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: into that ridiculous episode at the Republican Convention in twenty 166 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: sixteen in which Democrats claimed completely falsely that the Trump 167 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 1: campaign had gutted the Republican platform position on Ukraine as 168 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: a way to please Vladimir Putin. I mean, there's literally 169 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: nothing to that. Then he looked into the Trump Tower meetings. 170 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: He was looking for collusion in all the places that 171 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: you would expect, and he wasn't finding it. And by 172 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: December of twenty seventeen, there's a meeting on December twenty 173 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: first with the Trump defense team in Muller and the 174 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: Trump people are saying, look, you've had six months, you've 175 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 1: been looking for collusion. You haven't found it, And they 176 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: never did so for all of twenty eighteen, when we 177 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: would have these discussions on cable TV about collusion as 178 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: a real thing and Mueller is closing in and the 179 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: walls are closing in on President Trump, for all of 180 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: that time, impeachment was already kind of over inside the investigation, 181 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: and Muller had turned his attention to allegations of obstruction 182 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: of justice and the painful fact that Mullard could not 183 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: establish collusion or in legal terms, conspiracy or coordination. The 184 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: painful fact that he could not establish that didn't really 185 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: hit Democrats until April of twenty nineteen, when the report 186 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: is released and they can't avoid it any longer. There 187 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: just wasn't any collusion. Hi, this is new. I want 188 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: to invalue to sign up for a yearly subscription to 189 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: my Inner Circle membership club. Were in a critical time 190 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: in our history, for the outcome of the next election 191 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: will set us in a course of two very different 192 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: American features. 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And as an Inner Circle member, 201 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: you'll receive an invitation to attend my members only event 202 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: Live with newt a discussion on the next presidential debate, 203 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: and there are many other benefits of membership. Sign up 204 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: for a one or two year membership today and newts 205 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: Inner Circle dot com. That's newts Inner Circle dot com. 206 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: Back at the beginning of all this, Trump deciding not 207 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: to fire James Coomei during the transition really shaped his 208 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: presidency in many ways. Do you think that Trump had 209 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: fired Comy during the transition that things would have turned 210 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: out differently? I think it's entirely possible. I mean, you 211 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: could maybe argue that Trump's two biggest mistakes in his 212 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: first year were not firing Coomy in January of twenty 213 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: seventeen and then firing Comy in May of twenty seventeen. 214 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: During the transition, a number of people who were close 215 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: to Trump advised him to fire Comy right away. Rudy 216 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: Giuliani told me that he said to Trump, look, this 217 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: guy is going to turn on you. There's something wrong 218 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: with him. Chris Christie said, he is a loose cannon, 219 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: and if you keep him after you become president, he 220 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: will become your loose cannon. And a lot of their 221 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: reasoning for this was the way that Comey had handled 222 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: the Clinton email case. Now, they were in no way 223 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: sympathetic to Hillary Clinton. They were not offended on her behalf. 224 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: They didn't oh, you were so mean to Hillary. But 225 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: they thought it revealed Komy as being so erratic and 226 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: so headstrong and so self righteous that he would be 227 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: a problem if he stuck around. They didn't know that 228 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: the FBI was actually investigating them at the time. That 229 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: would have, I think sealed the deal for them. But 230 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: they knew that Komi would be a problem. So then 231 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: the question is why didn't Trump follow their advice. Obviously 232 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: he did not fire Komy when he became president, and 233 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: the reason was really pretty simple is he thought he 234 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: could bring him around. I mean, the president came to 235 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: office with the habits and approaches that he had used 236 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: in business for many decades, and he believed that through 237 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: the sheer force of his personality he could win people over, 238 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: he could bring them around to his point of view, 239 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: he could make call me a loyal member of the team. 240 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: So he didn't fire him, and I think we can 241 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: all agree that that really really did not work. Those 242 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: pounded then when the brand new Attorney General Sessions is 243 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: part of becoming attorney general, who accuses himself so that 244 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: the person who should have been defending Trump and monitoring 245 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: Comey basically can't do anything. Sessions decision to recuse himself 246 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: earned Trump's hostility until the end of time. I think 247 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: Trump will basically say, you know, the ten biggest mistakes 248 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: I made. Number one was hiring Jeff Sessions, and number 249 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: two through ten were hiring Jeff Sessions. I mean, he's 250 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: really really angry about that to this day. And you're right. 251 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: Sessions was in a difficult spot because he was part 252 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: of the campaign. There were a couple of completely bs 253 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: allegations about his own contact with Russians, and he was 254 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: interviewed by the Special Counsel's Office had no substantive role 255 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: in any of this. But he was part of the 256 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: investigation in the campaign was under investigation, and he certainly 257 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: was part of that. And he didn't hire as a 258 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: deputy someone that he had known a long time and 259 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: felt comfortable with and there was a kind of a 260 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: mutual loyalty. He didn't hire somebody like that. He hired 261 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: Rod Rosenstein, who had been a Justice Department official in Maryland. 262 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:24,479 Speaker 1: And it's Rosenstein who appoints Muller the special counsel in 263 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: May of twenty seventeen. And Trump is totally stunned. He's 264 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: blindsided by what Rosenstein has done. So if Sessions had 265 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: stayed in the job, would that have been possible? I 266 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: don't know. Democrats on the Hill can make an awful 267 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: lot of noise, but if he had, it's possible this 268 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: could have turned out differently. When you look at all this, 269 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: you have Hillary deleting thirty one thousand emails, You have 270 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: a member of her staff taking a hammer to destroy 271 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 1: the hard drives, and somehow that's not obstruction. Meanwhile, you 272 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: have this entire effort to frame the president. And the 273 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: more we've learned about the Steel dossier, the more we 274 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: learned about the way in which they were colluding all 275 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: through the fall of sixteen in the beginning of seventeen. 276 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: This makes Watergate look like a minor kindergarten tour. These 277 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: guys were literally using the power of the American system 278 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: to try to destroy the president. Nited states. The thing 279 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: about the Mueller investigation is Mueller showed no real curiosity 280 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: about how the investigation began and whether it began properly 281 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: or not. Our revelations about the dossier came via Devinunez 282 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: in the House Intelligence Committee when Republicans had the majority. 283 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: We learned a lot later from the Justice Department Inspector 284 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: General Michael Horowitz, who told us a lot about how 285 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: the Justice Department had abused the FISA laws to get 286 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: a wire tap carter page. So you're right about the 287 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: obstruction stuff and Hillary Clinton and all of the destruction 288 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: of potential evidence that she did. On the other hand, 289 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: I think in a big picture, we had a situation 290 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen where both major candidates, the Republican and 291 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: the Democrat, were under FBI investigation. And you can say, well, 292 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: maybe they were both really squirrely candidates. But on the 293 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: other hand, maybe the FBI was out of control, investigating 294 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: priminently both major candidates was a bad situation, and we're 295 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: only now learning most of the story about what was happening. 296 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: This was a period where we really could have gone 297 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: down a very dark road that might have shattered our 298 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: entire process of elected self government. As you learned more 299 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,239 Speaker 1: and more what she just kind of amazed. Well. I 300 00:19:55,320 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: was stunned continually by the s intensity of the drive 301 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: to remove the present from office. And there is this 302 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: moment in the book when Muller finishes his report in 303 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: March or twenty nineteen, and he tells the Justice Department, Okay, 304 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: I'm finished, and remember Bill Barr releases a summary of 305 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: the main conclusions, and a lot of controversy about that, 306 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 1: but it was entirely accurate. Then in April outcomes the 307 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: report and it fails to show collusion and the whole 308 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: issue of obstruction. It doesn't reach a conclusion on although 309 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: Muller is clearly accusing Trump of obstruction, but doesn't reach 310 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: a conclusion, and then a lot of error is out 311 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: of the balloon at that point. Republicans think that, but 312 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: Democrats are still holding out hope for impeaching Trump over 313 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: Russia and they decide that they need a Watergate moment 314 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: on national television, have a have Muller come in and 315 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: deliver a searing indictment of the president, and then everything 316 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: will be great and all Americans will support removing Trump 317 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: from office. They think that's what's going to happen. And 318 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,479 Speaker 1: then it's a disaster and Republicans say, finally, this long 319 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: Russia ordeal is over. And they don't know it at 320 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: the time, but at that very moment, Adam Schiff and 321 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: a few others are working on a new accusation against 322 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 1: the president based on Ukraine. Comes out of nowhere, a 323 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: complete judgment call, and it ends up leading toward impeachment 324 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: within the next few months. It's almost like a horror 325 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: story where you think the threat is over and then 326 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: you relax and then boom, it comes back at you. 327 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: I was surprised by the sustained intensity of this effort. 328 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: It's sort of the zombie impeachment. You shoot it, it 329 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: gets back up. Having looked at all this, how do 330 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: you rate shifts will in all of this, Well, it's 331 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: usually important because, as I said earlier, the Democratic plan 332 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen was not to talk about impeachment in 333 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: public and plan for it in private. Now, obviously, in 334 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: an impeachment, an impeachment begins in the House of Representatives 335 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee, and the Judiciary chairman was Jerry Nadler, and 336 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: the Intelligence Committee chairman was Adam Schiff. Now, the idea 337 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: that an impeachment would originate and be handled by the 338 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee was completely new, completely precedent breaking, And the 339 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: whole idea that the impeachment was a matter of intelligence 340 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: was nuts. You have to remember, the concept of filing 341 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: a whistleblower complaint against the president of the United States 342 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: is crazy. There's no inspector general for the White House. 343 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: That it doesn't work that way. There's a constitutional remedy 344 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: if you want to get rid of the president, but 345 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: there's no inspector general for the White House, and the 346 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act makes clear that whistleblower complaints 347 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: filed under that law have to deal with something under 348 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 1: the authority of the Director of National Intelligence. Now, the 349 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: President of the United States is not under the authority 350 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 1: of the Director of National Intelligence. It's actually the other 351 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 1: way around. So it made no sense legally to be 352 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: able to do this, And the Justice Department told Democrats 353 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 1: several times, but they did it because they could. And 354 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: the driving force in that was Adam Schiff, and he 355 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: completely got the upper hand with Jerry Nadler because House 356 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: Democrats had some doubts about Nadler's effectiveness to begin with. 357 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: And then a couple of things happened in the summer 358 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen after the Mueller testimony, when Republicans thought 359 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,719 Speaker 1: the Russia thing was dead, Democrats did not agree. Nadler 360 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: still wanted to start an impeachment based on the Muller report. 361 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: He could not get witnesses to come to testify before 362 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: his committee. He was reduced to calling John Dean to 363 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: testify of Watergate fame and infamy. Who comes in and says, 364 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: you know, the last time I was in front of 365 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: this committee was in nineteen seventy four, and you know 366 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: that was a long time ago. And the hearing accomplished nothing. 367 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: Dean said the kind of stuff he was saying on 368 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: MSNBC at the time. And then the real nail in 369 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: the coffin for Nadler was not long after that. He 370 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: had a hearing where he had Corey Lewandowski testify and 371 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: Lewandowski just ran rings around him, He delayed, he asked 372 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: for questions to be repeated, he questioned the questionnaires. He 373 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: just really kind of made a fool of Nadler. And 374 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: at that point a lot of Democrats said to Speaker Pelosi, look, 375 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: Jerry Nadler cannot handled impeachment. And so that really helped 376 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: solidify the authority of Adam Schiff as the guy who 377 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: was going to run impeachment. As you well know, but 378 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: I participated in an impeachment before, and I was really 379 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: struck and something I had learned from O'Neill, and that 380 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,479 Speaker 1: we tried to work on it. We didn't do as 381 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: good a job as we should have, because the Clinton 382 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: people were really good, and in particular James Carville and 383 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: Paul mcgillo were really good at keeping the people lined up. 384 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: But we did get thirty one Democrats to vote with 385 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: us to authorize the impeachment inquiry. Of course, in the 386 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: Nixon case, it was just unbelievable. I mean it was 387 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: four hundred and ten to four. But the Democrats had 388 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: to know first of all that they were never going 389 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: to get it through the Senate. We actually had a 390 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: chance to it. We thought to get it through the 391 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: Senate because the underlying evidence was so bad about Clinton's behavior, 392 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: But the Democrats had to know they would never get 393 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: Trump convicted of the Senate. And of course, so they're 394 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: engaged in a totally partisan effort in a way which 395 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: is I think undermines them. It was almost like they 396 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: were locked up and they couldn't get out of it. 397 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: Does that make any sense, No, it absolutely does. I 398 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 1: went back and looked at the impeachment authorization vote that 399 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: you held in nineteen ninety eight, you're corrector thirty one 400 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: Democrats who joined Republicans in this, and the New York 401 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: Times said that the House had begun an impeachment inquiry 402 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: on a partisan vote thirty one Democrats, which is not 403 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: nothing had crossed over in this case. I talked a 404 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: lot to Kevin McCarthy and Steve Scalise, the Republicans in 405 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: the House, who are a minority at the time, obviously 406 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: for the Trump impeachment, and they felt that when Schiff 407 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: started handling things the way that he did, for example, 408 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: when he began holding impeachment interviews depositions in secret and 409 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 1: Republicans were not allowed to come. You'd have this long 410 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: session interviewing some figure in the impeachment matter, and nobody 411 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: was allowed to come out and say what the witness 412 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: had just said. It all had to be done in secret, 413 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: and Republicans were threatened with discipline, namely Ethics Committee investigations 414 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: if they did. And this created an enormous amount of resentment. 415 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: And then we were just talking about the impeachment authorization 416 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 1: vote that you held to begin the impeachment inquiry. Pelosi 417 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: didn't hold one. All this was being done, and there 418 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: had never been a vote of the full House to 419 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: authorize an impeachment. Now, Democrats, if they stayed together, would 420 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: win that vote, but Pelosi had not held one, and 421 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: so she was just throwing out the rules and the 422 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: president right and left. And this created enormous resentment among Republicans, 423 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: and McCarthy and Scalise realized this. They realized that this 424 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: could create unity among Republicans, even if there were some 425 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: Republicans who were a little squishy on Trump. They all 426 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: felt that this was a fundamentally unfair process, and Scalise 427 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: and McCarthy realized that the strongest way to make this 428 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: point would be to have zero, that is, zero Republicans 429 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: vote when the authorization vote came finally held by Pelosi. 430 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: And then when the impeachment vote came to have zero Republicans. 431 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: Before this, you simply could not argue that it was 432 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: a totally partisan impeachment if Republicans stayed away. And finally, 433 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: the other thing they felt was if you had complete 434 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: one hundred percent unanimity among House Republicans, they felt that 435 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: would kind of rub off on the Senate. The Senate 436 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,479 Speaker 1: would see Republicans sticking together and be inspired to do 437 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:12,719 Speaker 1: that themselves. And that mostly worked, except for Romney, voted 438 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: for one article but then voted against the other. First 439 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: of all, Romney became there were two articles of impeachment, 440 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: and every other Republican voted no on both articles of impeachment, 441 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: and Romney voted no on one and yes on the other, 442 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: which meant he voted to remove the president from office, 443 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: to convict him and remove him from office. And it 444 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: was the first time, I believe in US history where 445 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: a Senator has voted to remove the president of his 446 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: own party from office. Well, it depends on whether he 447 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: thought of Johnson as a Republican in eighteen sixty seven, 448 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: because remember they come within one vote. I think of 449 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: removing him from office. That is true. It was kind 450 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: of an oddity. It's not your every day impeachment. As 451 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: we moved forward, assuming from a Trump victory, do you 452 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: think that the Democrats would have come right back as 453 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: rapidly and try to figure out how to do it again? Yes, 454 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: I do. I think that the idea that at some 455 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: point they would just reconcile themselves to the fact that 456 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: Trump is president. I think that those days have gone. 457 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: I think they're not going to As a matter of fact, 458 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: I know you've discussed this. This group called the Transition 459 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: Integrity Project, a group of Democrats and anti Trump Republicans 460 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: who had war gamed a few scenarios for a disputed election, 461 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: and one of the scenarios was that Trump wins the 462 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: electroc College clearly, no doubt about it. He wins the 463 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: electroc College, but he loses a popular vote, and which 464 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: is what happened in twenty sixteen, and this time they 465 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: don't accept it. And there's the two sides in the 466 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: war game that Democrats are coming up with all sources 467 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: of crazy ideas. They want to essentially charge a ransom 468 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: for approving Trump's victory. They want Trump Republicans to make 469 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: the district of Columbia and Puerto Rico states, and then 470 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: maybe create five states out of California. They just all 471 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: sorts of crazy stuff. They go to states that Trump 472 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: won with Democratic governors to change the electors, to get 473 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: the electors to change from Trump to Biden. So this 474 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: is a war game. This is not a real thing. 475 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: It's not the Democratic Party saying they're going to do this, 476 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: but it's an indication of the intensity on the Democratic 477 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: side right now. And if in fact Trump wins and 478 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: is inaugurated for a second term January twenty twenty one, 479 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what they're going to try, but certainly 480 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: I would think they would try to impeach him again, 481 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: which makes some pretty argument from Kevin McCarthy's standpoint of 482 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: making sure there's a Republican majority in the House, just 483 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: to cut that off. But it's been wild. Listen as always, 484 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: you are a remarkable reporter. And your new book Obsession 485 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: Inside the Warshington Establishments, Never Ending War on Trump. We 486 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: have a little excerpt from it on our show page 487 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: at Newtsworld dot com, and we recommend very highly to 488 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: people that they can go to Amazon or Arnes and 489 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: Noble or anywhere they like to buy books and get 490 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: a copy of it. And Byron York is one of 491 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: the most thoughtful and one of the best sourced reporters 492 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: in Washington. So Byron, thank you very very much for 493 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: joining us and for being part of this, and thank 494 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: you it was a pleasure to be here. Great to 495 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: talk to your listener. Newts World is produced by Gingwish, 496 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: Sweet sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is DeBie Meyers 497 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: and our producer is Garnsey Slam. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 498 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Pendeley. 499 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Which three sixty. Please 500 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,959 Speaker 1: email me with your questions at Gingwish three sixty dot 501 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: com slash questions. I'll answer a selection of questions in 502 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: future episodes. If you've been enjoying new Tworld, I hope 503 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with 504 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can 505 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. In the next episode of 506 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: nets World, we are one month away from the most 507 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: important election in American history, and I think it's so 508 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: important that people understand the stark contrast between President Trump 509 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: and Vice President Biden in the second episode. In this 510 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: election twenty twenty series, i'll discuss building the greatest economy 511 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: in Trump's America. I'm new Gingwich. This is New Tworld.