1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: My welcome Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, you welcome to 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb 4 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're bringing you a kind 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: of short episode today. But that's because we wanted to 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: cover updates to a couple of things we've talked about 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: this year. That's right. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: primarily a show about science, of course, but we also 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: discuss history, philosophy, mythology, various other subjects on the show. 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: But of course we do so with science as the bedrock, 11 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: and science, as we frequently discussed, is perpetually in a 12 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: state of change. It's that slime mold working its way 13 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: through the maze of reality, and so pretty much nothing 14 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 1: that we record is guaranteed to be evergreen. As they 15 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: say in the you know, the publishing world. Well sure, 16 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: it's the kind of funny irony is that science is 17 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: probably it's the best tool we have for understanding reality, 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: but it's very rarely the final word because it's all, 19 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, We're always getting a better idea. That's it's 20 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I cringe when people talk about 21 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: starting the podcast back from the beginning from ten years ago. 22 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: I mean part of it is like when I when 23 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 1: we started out, like we didn't really know what we 24 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: were doing. But then also you know, it's like the 25 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: science changes, like we had there's an older episode on 26 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: the Ender Tols. Uh, and I don't really recommend anyone 27 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: listen to that because there's been so much there's been 28 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: been so many more studies about in the Ender Toll 29 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: since the publication of that episode. I just don't I 30 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: don't trust the science to be uh accurate, to be 31 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: the best version of of our understanding. Well, I hope 32 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: the way we approach things now we we try to 33 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: make episodes at least partially evergreen, baking in the idea 34 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: that you know, results are tentative, that you know, the 35 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: outcome of one study is not the answer forever. You know, 36 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: things in the future could upend it. Oh, absolutely, And 37 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: I do think we we do that. But uh, but yeah, 38 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: today's episode is going to be about doing a little 39 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: upkeep on a couple of well, one is a recent 40 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: episode or a pair of episodes from this year. Another 41 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: is an older episode from seventeen that we also recently 42 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: re ran back in October. And of course the main 43 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: thing too is that both of these are exciting topics 44 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: where new findings UH can kind of change the way 45 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:18,839 Speaker 1: we understand the cosmos or understand the history of humanity. Yeah, 46 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: and I guess also both of these UH findings have 47 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: to do with primacy, right, So so yeah, let's go 48 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: straight into the first one. And this concerns the episode 49 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: that we recorded I guess it was a couple of 50 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: years ago, and then re ran about the idea of 51 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: the first Monster. Yeah, back in ten we recorded an 52 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: episode of Stuff to Play your Mind titled the First Monster. Again, 53 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: we reran it and in this most recent October. But 54 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: in the episode we discussed UH the Lionman or the 55 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: Loan Ninch, which was this this figure that resembled UH 56 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: was a human with a lion's head, a hybrid, a 57 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: hybrid being combining animal and human likeness into a single like. Now, 58 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: this was this particular artifact. The Lowan Mench was discovered 59 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty nine at a stone age cave site 60 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: known as Stottlehole or Stable Cave at Hollenstein near Vogelherd 61 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: in Germany. But it would be another thirty years before 62 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: anyone got a chance to examine these broken pieces of 63 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:25,839 Speaker 1: ivory due to the World Wars. But eventually, thirty years later, 64 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: that's when German archaeologist Yoheim Hahn discovered that these two 65 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: hundred fragments came together to form a thirty one centimeter 66 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: or just over a foot long figure carbon fourteen dated 67 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: to put two between thirty five and forty thousand years old. 68 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: It had the body of a man in the head 69 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: of a lion. In two thousand three, another lionman was 70 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: discovered in southwestern Germany. This one was carbon dated to 71 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: around the same time period and by by some estimates. 72 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: You know, first of all, these are amazing just for 73 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: no other reason. They're just they're just fascinating figures that 74 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: they give us some insight in to what ancient people 75 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: were doing, what they were making. But they also seemed 76 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: to be the oldest examples of figurative art. You know, 77 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: we've seen the Venus of Whole Fells take the title before. 78 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: I think it's from thirty five thousand to forty thousand 79 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: years ago, discovered in two thousand eight and two thousand sixteen. 80 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: But you know, while the venus is the depiction of 81 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: the feminine form of the loan Minch is a human 82 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: fused with the beast. Yeah, and this is what we 83 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: were drawing attention to in the episode, the idea that 84 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: this is the earliest example that we knew about of 85 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: fantasy art. It is an imagined being. Yeah, as stated 86 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: by Clive Gamble, an archaeologist at the University of Southampton, UK, 87 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: as quoted in Nature quote, they depict an animal world 88 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: in a semi realistic way. It shows early man moving 89 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: from his immediate world to an imaginative world. So that's 90 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: just a brief breakdown of the Loan minch. Uh. Certainly 91 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: go back and listen to that episode that we did 92 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: if you want more on that topic. But here's the 93 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: cool thing. And imagine a number of you have have 94 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: caught this news already because it was covered a number 95 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: of places that I even saw it featured on Stephen 96 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: Colbert's show. But in December of twenty nineteen, a new 97 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: discovery was made and it might just blow the Lionman 98 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: and the Venus out of the water. This is so cool. Yeah. 99 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: So this story takes us to a different corner of 100 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 1: the world. It takes us to Sulawesi, Indonesia one of 101 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: the four Greater Sunda Islands, and it's actually the world's 102 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: eleventh largest island. I read so we've known about applies 103 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: to scene settlements in the area for quite some time, 104 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: and early Homo sapiens are known to have reached UH 105 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: this area between sixty thousand and forty five thousand years ago. 106 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: Previous studies from some of the same archaeologists involved in 107 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: in this particular find, which is the the arch team 108 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: out of Australia UH, they've revealed prehistoric art and ornaments 109 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: dating back thirty thousand to twenty two thousand years ago 110 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: in this area and Homo sapiens apparently made it here 111 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: again some time prior to fifty thousand years ago. So 112 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: here's how this new finding came about. In a spelunker 113 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: named Hamrula climbed into a previously uncharted chamber in a 114 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: Suluesti cave system known as Marrow's pun Cap. It's a 115 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: limestone cave system. And while he was there, performing a 116 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: government survey of the case. And if you're wondering, was 117 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: Hamrula his first name or his last name? Apparently a 118 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: lot of people in Indonesia just go by one name, 119 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: just just just the one name. Anyway, he gets he 120 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: crawls through a narrow space into this new chamber and 121 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: he discovers cave paintings. And the cave paintings were subsequently 122 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: examined and written about by Aubert at All in Earliest 123 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: Hunting Scene in Prehistoric Art, published December twenty nineteen in Nature. 124 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: And again I believe this is the same arch team 125 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: out of Australia that was involved in some previous studies 126 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: in the area. So as the title implies, uh, they 127 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: used some dating technology uranium series dating on cave popcorn 128 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: or mineral deposits that they're hanging over some of the 129 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: motifs in the scene, and they were able to date 130 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: this hunting scene back to at least forty three thousand, 131 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: nine hundred years ago, So that is twenty thousand years 132 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: older than the hunting scene on the walls of Francis 133 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: Lasco Caves, and coming back to the Low and Minch, 134 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: that's also four thousand years before the lion Man. And 135 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: I realized we're talking about such it's it's kind of 136 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: ironic that we're talking about such big periods of time, 137 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: such large portions of human history. That you can also 138 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: make four thousand years not seem like a lot, which 139 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: is which is bizarre. But obviously four thousand years is 140 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: a lot of time and to to set the record 141 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: back four thousand years is amazing. So uh, here's an 142 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: important caveat though there's more work to do. Is they 143 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: need to date not just the work overall, you know, 144 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: looking at the cave popcorn, but each figure individually before 145 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: we can be certain in all of this, because there's 146 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: ultimately the possibility that different portions of it have been 147 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: added at different times. Yes, and now the main archaeologists 148 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: were quoted saying they don't think that's the case, but yeah, 149 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: we certainly should date the different parts. I think the 150 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: parts that had been that have been dated so far 151 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: are just the regular animals, but the more interesting parts 152 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,239 Speaker 1: let's get into that. So, yes, the overall it depicts 153 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: what seemed to be individuals using spears against prey animals 154 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: in a hunt. And this would be on its own, 155 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: would be an amazing find, right it would, as it 156 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: would predate any hunting scene we've seen before. But on 157 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: top of this, some of the hunters appear to be 158 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: um what the the researchers referred to as theory in 159 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: thropes or animal human hybrids, much like the Loan niche 160 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: as some of the humans appear to have tails or snouts, right, 161 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: So if this is correct, if the uh now now 162 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: again the parts that have been dated already were overlapping, 163 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: just the animals that were being hunted, which were these 164 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: like buffalo type creatures and HIGs, yeah, wild pigs, and 165 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: then a type of buffalo called an a noah which 166 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: is also known as a midget buffalo, so like a 167 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: water buffalo except smaller. Okay, But and so I think 168 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: they haven't dated the other figures like the theory and 169 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: thropes or the human animal hybrids yet, but it looks 170 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: like they're probably from the same period. We're just not 171 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: certain about that. But if so, this would this would 172 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: probably predate the Loan mention, making this the earliest evidence 173 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: we have of fantastical thinking, of like magic thinking among humans, 174 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: showing human animal hybrids like a human hunting a buffalo 175 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: with a bird's beak. Very cool. Yeah, and it's it's 176 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: when we get into it in that that episode about 177 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: the first Monster, about what this means, right, like, what 178 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: what ultimately does it mean to have in your mind, 179 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: a human with a beast's head. You know, on one hand, 180 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: it is imagining something that does not exist in the 181 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: real world, and but then on a on a deeper level, 182 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: it is taking what this means? What does a bird mean? 183 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: What are the ideas that that just the mere symbol 184 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: of a bird summons, and then our idea too, of 185 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: a human being. What happens when these, uh, this mix 186 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: of symbols and meanings collide. What new ideas are born 187 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: out of that collision? Absolutely so, it basically shows that 188 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: that people from this time period of you know, four 189 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: thousand years earlier than we thought, may have been dealing 190 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 1: with this kind of complex thinking, mashing up of symbols, 191 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: ideas and concepts, concepts even taking on a humanoid form. 192 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: Becky Ferreira wrote an excellent piece on this for The 193 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: New York Times, and you know she she points out 194 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: in this that the researchers believed too, that these may 195 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: have been animal spirit helpers, something that you would commonly 196 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: find a shamanistic beliefs. Uh So, yeah, there's a possibility 197 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: that we're dealing with, you know, animism and shamanism here, right. 198 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: It looks like it could be again This is just interpretation, 199 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: but it looks like it could be a scene depicting 200 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: maybe a game beam drive, where so hunters are shown 201 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: driving prey animals into an ambush by other hunters, but 202 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: that some of the hunters appear to be human others 203 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: appear to be human animal hybrids, So that means they 204 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: could be depicting yeah, like these these otherworldly spirit helpers 205 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: that come into aid the humans in the hunt, right Like. Well, 206 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: even if they are depictions of humans dressed up as 207 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: animals or partial animals, they would have engaged in an 208 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: actual like literal right like, even that would reveal the idea. 209 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: This is kind of complex thinking as possible totally now. 210 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: The researchers also note that these paintings are are quite 211 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: fragile and the art is fading quote at an alarming 212 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: rate and for unknown reasons. So it's gonna be interesting 213 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: to see how this develops uh further, because it does 214 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: seem like there's a you know, there's there's a half 215 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: life in play here and uh and it's kind of 216 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 1: a question how much can we figure out about them 217 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 1: before the work is decreated? Yeah, And it also makes 218 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: you wonder about how much other wonderful art from the 219 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: prehistoric world is just already lost and we'll never see it. Tragic. 220 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: But on the optimistic side, how many how many more 221 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: caverns like this are there out in the world that 222 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: just haven't haven't been breached or haven't been breached in 223 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: a terribly long time. Yeah, that's really exciting. All right, 224 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: I think we should take a quick break, but we'll 225 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: be right back with another update. Thank thank Alright, we're back. Uh. 226 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: So this update follows up on our previous podcasts about 227 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: the first interstellar visitor, the first object from another star 228 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: outside our Solar System, which is known as Umuamua uh 229 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: and so a brief refresher on Umuma before we get 230 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: into the updates on it. So, on October nineteen, the 231 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: Pan Stars one telescope in Hawaii first registered a small, 232 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: previously uncataloged object zooming through the Solar System. They got 233 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: other observatories to to confirm it, and due to the 234 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: trajectory of the object, it was clear that this thing 235 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: was not orbiting the Sun like everything else we see 236 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: in the Solar System is. Instead, it was sling shotting 237 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: around the Sun, coming in from outside the Sun's gravitational influence, 238 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: and it seemed like it was probably a rocky object 239 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: that somehow got ejected from another star system in the galaxy. 240 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: And there were a lot of reasons that this thing 241 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: was very interesting. So I'll just run through a few, uh, 242 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: a few of its attributes real quick. Uh. There was 243 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: its speed when it made its nearest approach to the 244 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: Sun around September nine, it was going a hundred and 245 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: ninety six thousand miles per hour, or about eighty seven 246 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: point three kilometers per second. And by the time we 247 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: we had this information, Mumua was already going. It was 248 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: like going, you know, it was already headed back out 249 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: of the Solar System at like seventy thousand miles per hour, 250 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: already past the orbit of Jupiter. In another four years, 251 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: it's going to be past the orbit of Neptune. Is 252 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: just gonna be gone. It's just going off into interstellar space. 253 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: The fly by had been completed and it had already 254 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: passed its nearest point by the time we saw it. 255 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: Um So the trajectory was very weird. It it entered 256 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: the plane of the Solar System, the ecliptic plane, at 257 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: an inclination of like a hundred and twenty three degrees, 258 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: so sort of coming straight down from above or up 259 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: from below, however you want to think about. It passed 260 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: inside the orbit of mercury, slingshot around the Sun and 261 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: went back out. So you know, we are ships passing 262 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: in the night. We are never going to see a 263 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: Mumu again. Now. One of the things that really captured 264 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: people's attention about it was its strange shape. Mum is 265 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: so small and so far away that it appears as 266 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: a point like object on our telescopes, and that means 267 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: we can't directly see any details about the surface or 268 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: the shape of the object. But of course there are 269 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: ways of analyzing it to draw some conclusions about its 270 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: shape and surface features. Like we can study the variations 271 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: and the flickering brightness of the object to create what's 272 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: known as a light curve analysis. Basically, this analyzes pas 273 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: turns of light intensity from this point like object in 274 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: order to draw conclusions about its shape and its spin 275 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: and stuff. And when we did that, what what scientists 276 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: found is that it appears to have something like a 277 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: ten to one length to width and depth ratio. So 278 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: you can imagine a cylindrical or tube shaped object like 279 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: ten times longer than it is wide um and according 280 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: to uh Danassa, it could be up to about a 281 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: quarter mile long, maybe like fours and only about forty 282 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: meters wide. Also, its motion is not spinning the way 283 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: you might expect it to be, but it's tumbling, so 284 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: it's not rotating around a principal axis. It's got a 285 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: chaotic tumbling pattern, tumbling once every like seven and a 286 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: half hours or so, so it's like a tumbling cigar. Yeah, 287 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: they often characterized as a scar uh. And it looks 288 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: like it's surface may have a red coloration, which would 289 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: be consistent with objects in our solar system, like asteroids 290 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: that have been bombarded with cosmic rays a lot. So 291 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: that's not all that surprising. But the question is where 292 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: did it come from? We don't know for sure. It 293 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: has this approach trajectory that makes it look like it's 294 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: roughly coming from the star Vega in the constellation of Lira, 295 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: but of course, like Vega was not there when it 296 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: would have been coming from that region, so you'd have 297 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: to sort of play back the movie of of stars 298 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: moving around in the galaxy in order to figure out 299 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: where it actually came from. So we haven't figured that 300 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: out yet, and then we did a follow up episode. 301 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: Our first episode on Omumu was in December of seventeen, 302 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: and we had an episode after that responding mainly to 303 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: a paper by the Harvard physicist Aviy Loeb and a 304 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: co author named schmool by Aali noting this weird speed 305 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: boost gained by the object as it left the solar system. 306 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: It seemed to be speeding up as it was speeding away, 307 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: and uh Loeb and and Bali argued that this boost 308 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: and speed was consistent with the object being a light 309 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: sale or a solar sale, which would imply in artificial origin. 310 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: But I think our conclusion was, well, you know, you 311 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: can't totally rule it out, but there's no really strong 312 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: evidence yet that it's aliens. This is an interesting paper, 313 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: but it did receive some criticism from people who said, 314 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: you know, they're jumping to conclusions, right, and it would 315 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: be an outstanding statement to say its aliens, and we 316 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: really need outstanding evidence for that to be the statement 317 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: we make totally. And if it were like an alien probe, 318 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: for one thing, we'd probably expect it to be emitting 319 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: some kind of radio signal, right, we we had some 320 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: radio observatories try to listen to it and found nothing. 321 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: There no pattern radio signals at all. So there's no 322 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: indication that it was aliens really, except for this interesting 323 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: thing about its speeding up as it moved away, um, 324 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: which could have also been due to radiation pressure if 325 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: it had certain other attributes. But they were saying it 326 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: didn't have the attributes that would make it you know 327 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: the kind of objects that would have been powered away 328 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: by the solar radiation. Now, I remember us talking about 329 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: the post ability that it was an out of control 330 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: dead ship, that that if there was any kind of 331 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: life force around on boarded or even though like a 332 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: will or a purpose, that it had all been um, 333 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: you know, eradicated a long time ago. Essentially the you know, 334 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: the ship from alien tumbling through the through the galaxy. Yeah, 335 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: which should be great. But even the ship an alien 336 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: was emitting a distress which we would have detected. But yeah, 337 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: you know, who knows. I I like to stay in 338 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: the in the realm of can't totally rule it out, 339 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: but won't go there right and again we'll also never 340 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: know because it's gone. Alright. On that note, we're going 341 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: to take a quick break, but we'll be right back 342 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:45,719 Speaker 1: with the update. Than all right, we're back. So one 343 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: of the weirdest things about Mumua was its apparent shape. 344 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: This it was this extremely elongated cigar shape that was 345 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: inferred from this light curve analysis. Obviously that figured into 346 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the speculation about alien probes and so forth. Right. 347 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: You know, you see a cigar shaped object in space. 348 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: That's not normal. Most objects are not shaped that way. 349 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: So people wanted to say, oh, yeah, that's got to 350 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: be some kind of probe. But are we sure that 351 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: that's what we're looking at? Are we sure that it 352 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 1: is this cigar shaped rocky object like we've been assuming. 353 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 1: I came across some interesting reports about a paper that 354 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: offered a different way of interpreting the data about the geometry, 355 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: and so this is a more recent development that's from 356 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: a scientist. I'm sorry, I'm going to do my best 357 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: to pronounce. His name is Dr Zdnnick Secondina, and Secondina 358 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: is a check American astronomer who has worked with NASA 359 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: JPL for decades. A lot of his research has focused 360 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: on space dust, meteors, and comments. He's actually done research 361 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: on the Tunguska event, as well as Haley's comment and 362 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 1: uh and uh the giant impact that happened on Jupiter 363 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties the shoemaker Levy comment. So what 364 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: was his take? Well, remember, humans never saw Umuma when 365 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: it was on its approach right and was coming into 366 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: its parahelion with the Sun. Our telescopes never picked it 367 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: up until it had already slingshotted around the Sun and 368 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: was on its exit trajectory to leave the Solar System. Now, 369 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: of course, astrophysicists can still infer its total trajectory based 370 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: on the small sliver of it that we see. You know, 371 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: you can roughly tell where it came from. But uh. 372 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: Second Eina offers an interesting argument about Muamua's shape and nature. 373 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: He argues that the Muamua we registered with our telescopes 374 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: is not the original object, but rather it is a 375 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: remnant a material cosmic race that was left behind after 376 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: an interstellar commet passed its parahelion and disintegrated in the process. 377 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: So second in This paper was published on the Archive 378 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: preprint server in January of twenty nineteen. As always, you know, 379 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: a lot of physics and astrophysics papers show up on 380 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: on archive these days. But just to remind you again, 381 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: that's not a peer reviewed journal. That's just like a 382 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: lot of stuff in in this realm happens in those 383 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: kind of places these days, and it it just gets hashed 384 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: out on the internet. Um So, that's a preprint server, 385 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: not pure viewed. But his analysis does seem to be 386 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: uh interesting and from what I can tell, pretty sound 387 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: like to read his words, he believes the evidence indicates 388 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: quote that also surviving could be a sizeable fragment resembling 389 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: a devolatilized aggregate of loosely bound dust screens that may 390 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 1: have exotic shape, peculiar rotational properties, and extremely high porosity. 391 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: So uh so weird shape tumbling being very porous and 392 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 1: not very dense. De volatilized of course, because as it 393 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: passed close to the sun, it lost all of its 394 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: volatile molecules like water and stuff, and all that stuff 395 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: would get turned to gas or vaporized, gased out and released, 396 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 1: and then what you'd have behind is this this object, 397 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: this collection of dust grains. Um So, to continue with 398 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 1: his words, so that was all acquired quote in the 399 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: course of the disintegration event, given that the brightness of 400 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: Mumu's parent could not possibly equal or exceed the Bordal 401 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: survival limit. I'll get back to that with with Mr Bordle, 402 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: there are reasons to believe that it suffered from the 403 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,959 Speaker 1: same fate as do the frail comments. The post parahelion observations, then, 404 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: do not refer to the object that was entering the 405 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: inner Solar System in early seventeen, as is tacitly assumed, 406 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: but to its debris. So here when he when he 407 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: mentions Bordle the border limit, he's referring to existing research 408 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 1: by the American amateur astronomer Johnny Bordle showing that faint 409 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: comments with very elongated orbits that pass within one earth 410 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: distance from the Sun will usually tend to shatter right 411 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: before the closest part of their orbit with the Sun. 412 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: UH quote the object is a desiccated comment that lost 413 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: most of its water and gases when it swooped close 414 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: to the Sun. It's like a skeleton of the original 415 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: body with all the ice out. A Secondina also writes 416 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: that consistent with what we've seen in a couple of 417 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: other frail comments that shattered like this when they passed 418 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: close to the Sun. UH quote as a monstrous fluffy 419 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: dust aggregate and released in the recent explosive event. Umu 420 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: mua should be of strongly irregular shape, tumbling, not out gassing, 421 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: and subjected to the effects of solar radiation pressure, consistent 422 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 1: with observation. So he's basically saying, like an object like 423 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: this that came close to the Sun sort of blew 424 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 1: apart because it was getting heated up by the Sun 425 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: as it was passing around UH, suffered this disintegration event, 426 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: and then continued to fly on as this remnant piece. 427 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: It would match all of the stuff we've seen so far, 428 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: including the stuff that that that Avy Loeb was talking about, 429 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: with it being subjected to the effects of solar radiation 430 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: pressure which would help its speed up as it made 431 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: its way out of the Solar system. Now there's one. 432 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: So if Seconding is correct, one implication is that if 433 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: such a shattering occurred, and if we don't know exactly 434 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: when it occurred, this complicates our attempts to locate the 435 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: origin of the object. Right as best I can tell, like, 436 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: it still looks like it probably came from outside the 437 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: Solar system, but it makes it harder to pinpoint like 438 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: which other star it could have come from if at 439 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: some point it like shattered and exploded and started tumbling 440 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: and now we the part of its path that we 441 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: can see is only after that happened. Does it complicate 442 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: the idea that it could have been a spaceship? Does it? 443 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: Does it make does it help people out if they 444 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: really wanted to be a spaceship or is this? Uh? 445 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: If Seconding is correct, I think it is definitely not 446 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: a spaceship. This would pretty much completely rule that out 447 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: unless it was a spaceship that was made of the 448 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: stuff that comments are usually made of. So you're saying 449 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: there's a chance, and so is Seconding a We're not 450 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 1: sure yet. I love the idea of this. Objects like 451 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: this tumbling spindle of dust grains held together by gravity 452 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: left over after a comet kind of exploded or disintegrated 453 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: from passing close to the Sun. Uh. There's actually one 454 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: more development in mummuah news that I also thought was interesting. 455 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: So in the wake of the discovery of Umu Mua, 456 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: some astronomers postulated that maybe it's just that interstellar objects 457 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: are traveling through our Solar System all the time. They're 458 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: much more common than we thought. You know, maybe that's 459 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: why we're seeing this, the idea being that we were 460 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: just reaching the point where we have the capabilities to 461 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: observe these things. And if that's the case, this is 462 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: not going to be the just the singular uh interstellar traveler. 463 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: We will start seeing more of them, not because they're 464 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: suddenly occurring. They've the ideas, they've been occurring all along, 465 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: but we are suddenly at a point where we can 466 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: observe them, right, So it's not that it's super rare, 467 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: it's just it just happened to be the first one 468 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: we caught with our telescopes. Well, and now it appears 469 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: that Mumua is not alone and being confirmed as an 470 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: interstellar object. I was just reading a Good Nazi article 471 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: by Michael Greshko from October nineteen about the discovery of 472 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: another confirmed interstellar object called Borisov. This was discovered on 473 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: August nineteen by a Crimean amateur astronomer named Gennedy Borisov, and, 474 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: unlike Omama, Borisov was caught before its parahelion, so there 475 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: is a chance that it could answer some questions that 476 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: Omuamua left open. So far, it appears to be pretty 477 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: similar to comments from within our solar system, which is interesting, 478 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: so maybe a comment from another star actually looks a 479 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: lot like comets from our own solar system. Early analysis 480 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: revealed it was spitting out a lot of cyanide as 481 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: it traveled, but apparently local comments do that as well. 482 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,719 Speaker 1: It appears to have a pretty normal commentary core uh 483 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: solid nucleus within a cloud of gas and dust, and 484 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: the earlier estimates put the core somewhere between like half 485 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: a mile and two miles wide, so like zero point 486 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: eight to three point two kilometers. That was in October. 487 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: Borisov actually passed its Parahelian in early December of twenty nineteen. 488 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: So I was reading some of the recent reports about 489 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: these observations. There was a NASA News feature that had 490 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: images created by the Hubble Space Telescope of the object 491 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: as it was near the Sun. I've got these here 492 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: for you, Robert. It looks suitably haunting. Yes, it's chemical 493 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: composition appears to be again roughly the same as comments 494 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: inside our solar system, and we we've got a better 495 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: idea of exactly what its size was. Hubble came up 496 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: with the accurate figure of about thirty two feet or 497 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: about nine hundred and seventy five across for the nucleus, 498 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: which you know is roughly a kilometer or so. Uh so, 499 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: very cool. Maybe we're gonna start seeing these things all 500 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, it's it's one of the it's it's 501 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: it's kind of like a revelation that is at once 502 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: amazing but also maybe in some ways a little uh 503 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say terrifying. I don't want to say that, 504 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: but but it is like this, this this contemption, I mean, 505 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: is is like space exploration in general, the perpetual understanding 506 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: of a of a larger cosmos. Uh. And the more 507 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: that we understand, the more new questions we have about 508 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: how everything works. Uh so um. Yeah, it's gonna be 509 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: interesting to see how just the next year of observation 510 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: pans out. You know, will we see more interstellar objects? 511 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: And if so, how many? You know? Ultimately, like what 512 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: is going to be the uh you know, a realistic 513 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: rate of interstellar objects passing through our solar system? Yeah? 514 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I can't wait to find out. 515 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: I can't wait to get some really weird ones. I 516 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: guess if there's anything disappointing here, I mean, I love 517 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: this discovery. But if we're seeing okay, so a comment 518 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: from another star looks very much like, at least so 519 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: far like comments from our own neighborhood. When do we 520 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: get a super weird one? When do we get one 521 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: that I don't know, you know, comes from a star 522 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: made out of mice or something, right? Right? I mean 523 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: it takes me back to our recent episode discussing new 524 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: Horizons and Pluto, you know, and how there's always that 525 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: there's always that that risk that that the thing that 526 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: you want to study will be kind of boring. But 527 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, oftentimes the the universe has has has has 528 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: weirdness in store for us. So it'll be interesting to 529 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: see what kind of weirdness we see. I think maybe 530 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: one thing we've learned from doing the show is that 531 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: even if something looks maybe kind of boring at first, 532 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: if you look at it deep enough, it gets weird. 533 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: It does, it definitely gets weird, all right. So there 534 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: you have it again, just a couple of updates on 535 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: some past episodes. We may do more of these in 536 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: the future. We'll see. But well, you know, I think 537 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: we are in that we're recording this before the New year. 538 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: I think this is what the first episode of the 539 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: new year. I'm not sure. Maybe so so if it 540 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: is Happy New Year. If not, um, you know, I guess, 541 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: just Happy Tuesday or Thursday. But in either In either case, 542 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: we are looking forward to bringing you a lot of 543 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: new episodes in we're looking forward you getting into a 544 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: lot of weird topics and uh yeah, we're looking forward 545 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: to the journey and we hope you'll stick with us 546 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: through that journey. In the meantime, if you had own 547 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: over to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com, that'll 548 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: shoot you over to a place where you can find 549 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: episodes of the show. And you can find episodes of 550 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: the show wherever you get podcasts these days. Uh you know, 551 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: whichever one feels like the best fit for you personally, 552 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: I guess. And whatever that website happens to be, make 553 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: sure that you subscribe and rate and review, because that 554 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: helps the show out in the long run. Huge thanks 555 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. 556 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: If you'd like to get in touch with us with 557 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a 558 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: topic for the future, just to say hello, you can 559 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your mind 560 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production 561 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from 562 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: my heart Radio is the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 563 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.