WEBVTT - “On the Gulf”” 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.120 Camp Hell. Anawaki is a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.560 The views and opinions expressing this podcast are solely those 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:10.760 of the author and participants and do not necessarily represent 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.800 those of I Heart Media or its employees. Due to 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:18.680 discussion of traumatic, sexual and violent content, listeners, discussion is advised. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:26.000 Out of the blue getting the call that this program 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:29.680 was being made, there was a little bit of dread, 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.640 maybe a little bit of relief. It's not something that 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:38.120 ever really goes away from me. It's also not a 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:42.640 part of my everyday life as far as my interactions 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:46.839 with other people and things that I do. Stays in 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:52.080 my thoughts less and less over time. My name is 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:57.760 Carl Moore. I was m five sixty two. I went 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:03.080 to an Awake and nineteen seven any six and left 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:09.400 there in uh Carl served as a counselor for Anawaki 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.320 and was the closest of anyone I spoke with to 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:16.320 Lewis Petter and his inner circle. By the time of 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:21.040 Carl's entry to Antawaki in, Petter had still managed to 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.200 keep contact with the boys on campus, even though he 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:28.399 was not permitted to enter their campsites. Carl remembers his 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.639 initial introduction to the program while visiting a close friend 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.720 during one of Anawaki's fellowships, an annual fundraiser for the 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.840 foundation which would show off the improvement of its patients 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:43.920 to their families. That's the fellowship. We would have the 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.000 entire campus and all the families together in the Amphitheater area. 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.520 We go through a program and awards would be given out, testimonials, 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:58.320 kids would do skits. Yeah, everybody put on a good show, 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.040 and then after the main ceremony, each group would go 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:07.640 off to its own area and have lunch. It was 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:13.280 pretty impressive, and for me, I just saw these people. 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.000 I said, that's what I want. I want to I 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.320 want to be confident and strong and sure what I'm doing. 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:22.000 Like all these people looked like they were I knew 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.600 someone who was there, and I thought I'd never see again, 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.359 and I thought they were just not gonna make it. 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:31.120 Then I went out there and saw them at one 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.880 of the fellowships, and I couldn't believe. You know, it's 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.920 like they changed so much and it seems so positive. 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:42.320 And my life was in disarray. I mean, I was depressed, 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.200 anxious at the end of my rope. I felt like 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.000 then I saw this place where they had all these 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.760 healthy people, and I thought, well, maybe that's something I 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:56.600 should try. Carl remembers his first impression of Lewis Petter 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:02.239 following this fellowship. He was not really a big person 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.400 but physically but had a big presence. When he came 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:07.840 into a room, he knew he was there. If he 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:09.960 looked at you, you knew who was interested in you. 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:14.359 He paid attention to people. Petter was God and antawaiki. 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.919 When I came to view it as being his, there 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:23.480 was really no distinguishing in my mind him from the program. 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.000 Carl says this first introduction to anna Waki came at 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.840 one of the darkest times in his life, a time 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:34.720 when he was desperate for some guidance and direction. I 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:39.400 had gotten a girl pregnant and we had decided to 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:44.680 get an abortion. I had had a lot of self hatred, 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:49.000 I guess Carl decided that an awaki might be the 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.320 answer to his problems. He set up an entry interview 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.480 with Louis Petter. It is here that he would meet 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.360 him for the first time. I went for an interview 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.560 and into his office and I told him about that, 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:08.840 and I was pretty confused. He had a pitch that 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:13.400 he would give two people about letting go of your 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:18.240 feelings and ideas, and he actually kind of helped me 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.400 to let go of some of that anger and hurt 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:26.000 that I was feeling. Then he came over and had 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.359 me close my eyes and hold my hand up. I 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.159 didn't know what it was about. And then he came 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.320 over and he put his hand on my face and 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:41.360 put his thumb against my lips and I opened my 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:47.479 mouth and he put his thumb in my mouth. Now 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:52.640 let him do it? Even how you say, how could 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.240 I let him do that? And I was like, this 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:01.600 guy's God. He's helped all these people, He's done these 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:08.680 amazing things, and he must think I'm pretty special. From 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.320 going to want to kill yourself to be in uh, 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:17.320 one of God's chosen was big step. I think at 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.360 that point he said, well, you can come back and 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:28.880 go into program. We'll see how it goes. Over the 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.880 past several weeks, we have received number of very serious 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.760 allegations concerning both the facility out there in a number 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:39.239 of individuals involved with him. It was just a form 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.560 of their therapy. They were told to do it. And 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:43.840 at the time he was fourteen and a half fifteen 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.359 years old. They didn't know any better. I asked him, 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.839 why are you letting this happen? Why are you covering 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.320 up for Louis Packer. He had no answer to that question. 0:05:53.160 --> 0:06:07.159 Involved having the institution paid little place and absolutely of 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.920 what they should have done. I'm disturbed the fact of 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:15.080 something that can still going on any wicked. I'm Josh 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:21.640 Stain and this is Camp hell An Awake. By the 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.200 mid nineteen seventies and Away he had established itself as 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.320 a successful program for troubled youth in Georgia. The center 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.520 had secured its medical license, which allowed the collection of 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.280 third party payments from insurance companies, and was now having 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.760 patients referred there from the court system as well as 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:45.040 other learning centers. Louis Petter, supposedly restricted from making contact 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.920 with any patients, was still keeping his office on campus grounds. 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.760 Any oversight at the time had slipped through the cracks 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:56.280 of state government, and the enrollment of patients at Antawaki 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:01.360 was growing exponentially. Carl moore Or was one of these patients. 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.640 He was admitted in nineteen seventy seven after seeing the 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:08.279 result of his brother's reform there. Carl's family had a 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.240 particular connection to Antawaki. His mother was involved in a 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.560 number of schools in Atlanta that would often refer children 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:20.360 to the program In Douglasville, Annawak's reputation had put the 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.200 program at the top of the list for educators to 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.840 send children who were beyond the scope of their help. 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.280 Here's Chris McKnight, a former patient who was referred to 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.800 Antawaki from the New School, a program headed by Carl's 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:39.000 mother tweeting More. And my father pulled me out of 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.600 the school. I was going to edit me into tweeting 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.680 More school the new school. I was there for a 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:49.360 couple of months, and at the new school, I met 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.920 a couple of people that I was at Annawaki with 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:56.320 who were at her school post and awake. So it 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.680 turns out tweeting More recommended Antawaki. It's not just me, 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.520 but a lot of other kids. My feelings with Tweetie 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.160 is I don't think she knew about the abuse of Annawaki. 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:10.800 I've known Tweetie since I was a little kid. I mean, 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:14.600 she's she's pasted an hour rest her soul. A number 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.560 of former patients I've interviewed said they were referred to 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.520 an Awake from other schools in similar ways. Word had 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.240 spread throughout learning centers in Georgia and neighboring states that 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.520 Antawaki was a solution for troubled kids who didn't have 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:33.080 a place elsewhere. Now that Anawaki was an officially licensed 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:37.200 medical hospital, it was also receiving patients who were wards 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.960 of the state of Georgia and other neighboring states like Alabama. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.880 This all amounted to a large increase in the number 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:51.559 of patients enrolling, and Antawaki was running out of room. 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:56.640 It just seemed that things grew very rapidly while I 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:02.920 was there. I'm Stephen mckinn and I was a patient 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:10.880 and aniwag from July of nineteen seventy six through August 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:18.559 of nineteen eighty. My number was M five three and 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:25.280 Awaki had been established for sixteen years, but by nineteen 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:32.560 eighty the numbers were up above six hundred, so the 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:39.800 population at least by laundry number, increased threefold in the 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:45.320 time that I was there. Apparently, the Douglasville campus was 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:49.000 not big enough for the amount of people that were 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:53.520 coming in in a wiki would soon need to expand 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.480 their program outside of Douglasville. This would take form and 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:01.440 what would later be known as the South Campus in Carrabelle, Florida, 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.520 a small fishing town near Tallahassee on the Gulf of Mexico. 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.839 Anawiki had taken biking and canoeing trips to this town 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.040 dating back to some of its earliest years. In seventy one, 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.800 article from the Tallahassee Democrat pictures a group of boys 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.800 and two older men riding bikes single file down the highway. 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:26.880 The caption states Douglasville, Georgia utes and their leader on 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.080 their annual bike excursion to Florida on their way to 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:35.719 Daytona Beach via St. Augustine from Carabelle. Stephen says he 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:37.960 was one of the first groups sent there to build 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:44.080 what would become the South Campus. They looked among the 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:48.760 people that they had in Douglasville that we're in vocational 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:54.800 groups and chose a certain number of young men that 0:10:54.960 --> 0:11:02.280 were physically strong and he evil to go down and 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:09.079 produce work without a lot of guide us. We were told, 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.280 y'all are going down here to build the campus, and 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.920 for the most part, that's what we did. I was 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:21.600 part of the first votational group that went down there. 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.880 All we did was work for six days a week 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:31.920 and went to church on Sunday and tried to go 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:39.640 swimming or something like that on Sunday afternoons. It was hot, 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.400 It was a lot of bugs, a lot of mosquitoes. 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:51.600 It was completely undeveloped, and when we first went down 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:57.240 all there was was that power poll a well with 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:04.280 water doct edders can ever in a Weekie's second campus 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:08.640 in Carabelle consisted of two locations approximately five miles apart, 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.840 often referred to as the bay Side and the land Side. 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.559 The bayside house to former motel taken over and renovated 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:23.040 by Inawaki patients. Five miles inward was Landside, once part 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.959 of World War two training camp Gordon Johnston. All that 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.400 was left was four cement blocks from a former military 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:35.000 radar station and untouched Gulf wilderness. This is where Stephen 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.000 and his first group would begin building a second campus 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.480 for word groups in Florida. We went down there and 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:46.040 began building a lodge, a place for us to eat 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:52.600 and meet. We slept on the old radar installations slab 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:59.040 and also worked building the first camp site down there, 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:06.600 which was called Shimidi. Landside was a few miles away 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.880 from Bayside. It was not on the coast. It was 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:17.280 four or five miles inland. There was not any mixing 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:23.640 of the academic groups and the vocational groups. We only 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:30.359 came to Bayside to eat our meals and I finished 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:37.080 my part of Carabelle. There were two groups at Bayside 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:44.439 and three groups at Landside, so at that point it 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:51.000 was rapidly approaching the size of the Douglas Bell campus. 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.840 Stephen says the chosen location of Carabelle tied into the 0:13:55.960 --> 0:14:01.160 educational aspect of an Awaki. For are to the building 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.400 of the second campus, and Awake he could only offer 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.880 a g D or prepare people for a g D. 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:17.199 They were not an accredited at school. So they entered 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:22.920 into some agreement with Carabell Public Schools and they had 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:30.840 three academic groups in Caribell, where the members of those 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:35.320 groups went to public school during the day and then 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:40.000 came back to what we called Bayside or the old 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:45.600 hotel at night. This practice of utilizing the Florida public 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.800 school system did not go unnoticed by the local government 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:53.320 in Caribell. In a newspaper article from four the new 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.800 superintendent of Franklin County mentions asking the inn a WEEKI 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.040 Foundation to pay tuition for its students attending floor to 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:06.360 public schools. In another article dated from and Awake is 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:10.680 described as a quote college prep school where students could 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:15.400 earn college credit by attending the Florida public schools. Eventually, 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.280 and Awake would be required to pay a tuition fee 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.840 of fifty dollars a student, but plans were already under 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:42.200 way to build their own school. Following the nine seventy hearing, 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.160 some restrictions have been put into place regarding Lewis Petter's 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:50.840 interaction with the boys at in Awake. The original stipulation 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.520 the Petter have no contact with any of the boys 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.880 had since been deluded to him not setting foot in 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:01.640 the sleeping quarters. By many accounts, this still meant Petter 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:05.240 would often see the boys, even still having visitors in 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:10.200 his house and maintaining his inner circle. Carl Moore, when 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.680 we first heard at the top of the episode, would 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.000 be next in line in a string of young men 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:19.720 which Petter would manipulate and abuse. Carl says this first 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.640 began in Carabelle. Everything about the way I went through 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.640 the program was different. I mean, looking back to me, 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.360 it was clear that I was selected to be something special. 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:36.280 I was assigned to group in Caravelle, Florida, which was 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.960 the first group down there. Most of what I remember 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.160 about that was was pretty positive. We had a couple 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.320 of group leaders that were I think they're really good guys. 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.200 They were the kind of people that's like, jeez, I 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.320 want to grow up and be like that guy. I 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.520 ended up in Carabelle, and then I think some of 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:56.560 the guys down there thought it was funny. You know, 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.400 I hadn't been through the you know, at some point 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.560 I ended up driving back and forth bringing supplies down 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.720 from Douglasville. Kind of immediately set me apart from everyone 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.679 else who couldn't go anywhere. I would say, yeah, Carl 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:11.760 doesn't have his knife frillages, but he can drive the 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.960 trucks back and forth. You know, there are already people 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.960 there that he had relationships with. He had a trailer 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:24.000 on the South campus. It was quite a privilege to 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.439 get invited to go to the trailer. He had another 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.840 guy who was who was living at his house then 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:36.120 who brought down there with him former patient. A couple 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.879 other guys who were I don't know if there are 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.080 patients or not at the time, but they all were. 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.640 It had been, you know, so that was the kind 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:47.600 of a special thing to get invited to come to 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.399 dinner in there that it was a good cook. By 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:54.120 the way, that was where I had really my my 0:17:54.240 --> 0:18:00.760 first sexual experience with him. He was big on uh, 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:05.800 trust and loyalty. The standard speech was something like, I'm 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:09.000 gonna be your old elephant. He would say, I'm going 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.840 to teach you the way, and you can only have 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:18.119 one old elephant. Of course, everybody confided in him, and 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.560 he expected that, and it was clear that, you know, 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.440 he would expect that. I think he probably even addressed 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.320 it directly and saying, you know, something like you can 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:31.119 tell me everything or anything, but you can't do that 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:36.720 with everybody, and we did. Carl says that this type 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.959 of abuse was something that was felt out that not 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.919 all of the boys were subjected to, but only the 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.480 ones that were susceptible to it. So here's the slide 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.399 of hand that kind of happens with that. You're gonna 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:54.040 be open with me, You're gonna trust me absolutely, and 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.600 you're gonna do away with all the taboos and all 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.640 this crap that you've been taught that makes you feel 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.160 so bad, and then I've put my hands on you 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:05.200 and say how does that feel? Say, well, you don't 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:10.919 say it feels weird. Yeah, I mean some some guys 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.960 would punch him out. He would know who those guys were. 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:20.040 It's just like what we learned on the Serengetti in Africa. 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:24.120 When the tigers or the lions are approaching a herd 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.359 of animals, they look for the weak ones that are 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.280 at the edge of the herd and they try to 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:32.359 pick them off. My name is Chris Newland, and I 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.200 am the executive director at the National Children's Advocacy Center. 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.080 We were actually the first child advocacy center in the world. 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.199 At Children's Advocacy Centers, what we do is coordinate the 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:49.200 multidisciplinary response to child abuse in our communities, and this 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:54.280 model includes partnerships and collaborations with law enforcement, child protective services, 0:19:54.760 --> 0:20:00.280 medical providers, mental health professionals, prosecutors, victim advocates, so all 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:04.560 of us working in a coordinated manner. What's really insidious 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:09.280 in this is the fact that in child sexual abuse, 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.240 in many situations, the child ends up being sexually abused 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:20.680 by someone who they consider their friend, someone who they like. Oftentimes, 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.639 the term grooming is used to describe the actions that 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:27.440 happen leading up to sexual abuse with children by their abuser. 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.320 Chris says that this is an inaccurate term to use. 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:36.320 Why do we use a word grooming to describe what 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:39.359 an individual may do to sexual abuse a child? Why 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.040 do we use a word that is in every other 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:47.800 context pro social. What they're doing is manipulating. They're taking 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:51.520 advantage of someone whom they can they can deceive for 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.879 their own personal advantage and gain without any concern for 0:20:54.920 --> 0:21:00.479 that individual. There's multiple levels of manipulation that occur. First, 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:05.640 an individual manipulate the broader environment by having a good 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:10.720 reputation and you know, being well respected in their community, like, oh, 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.280 Chris could never do something like that. I've known Chris 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.119 for twenty six years and I've only known him to 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:20.440 be x. Those are about creating this environment where I'm 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.280 manipulating everybody to think I'm a really good guy, to 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:27.440 hide the things that maybe I'm doing secretly. Another level 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:32.480 of manipulation that happens is the manipulation of caregivers or 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:37.399 trusted others. So let's say the individual wants to have 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.159 sexual contact with the child. Their first step really is 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:44.359 to win over the parents or caregivers of that child, 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.320 because they until they can have that individual access with 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:50.520 the child, they're not gonna have the opportunity to sexually 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:54.399 abuse them. It was part of the show, you know, 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:57.600 they had a program that did change live. Being in 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:01.439 the inside, I was kind of isolated. Really. Anybody that 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:05.119 was close to Petter was It's like two different worlds, 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:09.440 you know, there was a Aniwoki outside and the Petter inside. 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.359 He would definitely pick and choose whoever he was going 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:16.440 to be close to or spend time with. I think 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:20.560 that any group leader that had come through the program 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:23.399 was certainly going to be on that list of people 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:28.080 that would likely have had a relationship with better. It's 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:32.040 not an accusations, just just the way it is. The 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.080 last is the child, and it's not just a random 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:38.159 approach where I'm just gonna try to hit on every child. Necessarily, 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:41.760 that's not the case. Individuals may have particular interests and 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.239 who they're interested in or who they may have a 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:48.120 desire to be in contact with. They may also will 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:51.840 almost always look at is this a child who I 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:55.159 think I can manipulate or not. If you have a 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:58.920 child who always tells on everybody for every transgression, that's 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:01.800 not who you're going after, right because that that individual 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:06.159 is gonna, you know, tell. Shortly after Karl's stay at 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:09.840 the Carabell campus, he was promoted to group counselor and 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:13.160 put on an aweki's payroll, which brought him even closer 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:18.280 to Petter and his home. So I left the group 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:21.840 in Florida after pretty much after the ninety days, and 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:24.120 I got my crest. We were starting down that road. 0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:26.720 And you know, some time after that, I went to 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:29.960 work with a group and it just kind of evolved 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:32.240 into a group leader. It wasn't like there was any 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:36.480 kind of formal process to it. I was just put 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:40.480 with a group. It's like, try this out. And at 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:43.080 some point I started getting a check for it, paycheck. 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:47.639 I was just following the program. Really, I wasn't the 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:50.639 first one to go through this. I needed a place 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.200 to go when I was off. Petter had a couple 0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:55.200 of beds in the basement of his house and there 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:58.359 was another guy living there who had been through the program. 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:03.679 And to then we were part of the family. The 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:07.720 offender in this scenario is making the kids like them 0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:11.080 where they are an important part of their life, because 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:13.480 it makes it harder for you to tell on someone 0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:15.560 you really like. It's easy for any of us to 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:18.119 tell on someone we hate when they've done something wrong, 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:20.280 right like, oh hey, this person, I hate them, they 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:23.440 did this, But when it's someone we like, we're less 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:27.960 likely to the manipulation of You get to do something 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:30.159 that other people don't get to do, You get to 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:32.960 have access to something that other people don't get to 0:24:33.000 --> 0:24:36.560 have access to, makes it where they You know, this 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:40.359 confusing notion of okay, but I'm special now that some 0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:42.440 of this stuff feels weird, but I get all these 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:47.480 extra privileges or opportunities that other people don't get. I'm special. 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:50.000 And especially for someone who may be at a wilderness camp, 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:53.240 who hasn't maybe oftentimes felt special in their life or 0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:57.919 been important to someone else, that can be very powerful 0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:00.920 for them, not in a sexual away, but just to 0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:05.440 feel respected, to feel wanted, to feel a part of something. 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:09.600 I don't think you could be in Petter's inner circle 0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:13.159 without a great deal of denial. I mean I was 0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:16.359 living with his family, and I would say, you know, 0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:19.760 it's clear to me that at some level they knew 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:23.199 the drill. I think that, like a lot of people 0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:27.439 in my position, they were essentially making sacrifices for the 0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:31.080 greater good kind of thing. You know that Anna Waki 0:25:31.200 --> 0:25:33.400 was so important and so good, you know we had 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:38.439 to keep it going. It's hard to describe what happens 0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:41.880 something like that. You don't think about it, You think 0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:46.560 about other things. Once you kind of compartmentalize that one 0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:50.040 little objectionable thing, then you try to do things to 0:25:50.119 --> 0:25:53.399 make your life worth while. I think everybody who is 0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:59.080 near Petter did that in some way or another. Chris 0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:02.800 says the not always, but sometimes this type of abuse 0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:09.320 can continue downward from the abused to others. Now, in 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:14.680 the situation with Anna Waki, these behaviors were nurtured by 0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:18.240 people in positions of influence, and we see this from 0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:23.479 time to time. Individuals who were abused become involved in 0:26:23.520 --> 0:26:28.320 that and they have developing some level of enjoyment, and 0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:31.760 they are they're encouraged to engage in this behavior with 0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:35.520 other individuals. The other thing it does is it empowers 0:26:35.560 --> 0:26:40.040 the offender. Like if let's say so, I I'm sexually 0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:43.160 abusing this child and now I'm encouraging this childhood gates 0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:45.480 in sexual contact. I can then go to that child 0:26:45.480 --> 0:26:47.280 and say, if you ever talked about what happened, they're 0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:49.199 going to find about about what you've done. You'll be 0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:53.360 in trouble too. Now I've made my victim even more 0:26:53.520 --> 0:26:57.320 vulnerable to me and more able to be manipulated because 0:26:57.400 --> 0:26:59.520 you have these other people that are kind of this 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:06.080 pond the scheme of sexual abuse. People would confide in him, 0:27:06.200 --> 0:27:09.919 and uh, he kind of kept an inventory of people. 0:27:10.840 --> 0:27:13.960 He would have something to say about everybody, and he 0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:18.080 kind of manipulated people with that information in a really 0:27:18.160 --> 0:27:22.560 kind of clever, discreet way. Sometimes he would have confrontations 0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:24.800 with people and they would they would not come out 0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:27.000 ahead on it, and I think that's why. I think 0:27:27.040 --> 0:27:30.840 people were afraid to confront him for that reason. I 0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:32.840 think he was one of these people who had the 0:27:32.880 --> 0:27:36.800 ability to turn people's own situations against them pretty easily. 0:27:38.520 --> 0:27:40.960 He had told me once that he he had been 0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:45.200