WEBVTT - Sleep 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:09.480 That is the sound of a fake fireplace. But I 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.600 sometimes play on my real iPhone when I really can't sleep. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:17.200 As a slumberer, I would give my performance a sea. 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.520 I sometimes have trouble falling asleep, and I almost always 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.280 have trouble staying down in my apartment. I've hung blackout drapes, 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:28.080 stocked the pantry with melatonin, and have tried every variety 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:32.959 of self hypnosis trying to force quit consciousness. When I'm 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:35.800 on tour, I'll collect all of the hotel pillows and 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.400 build a pyramid of them on my face, trying to 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.480 block out whatever it is it is keeping me awake 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:46.800 at five am. This is deeply human. I'm Dessa, and 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:48.720 if you can hear the sound of my voice, then 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.839 you are awake. And I hope that's on purpose, that 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:56.000 you're not just whiling away some exasperated minutes in the darkness, 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.920 the dreaded morning bird song wooming every nearer, trying to 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.200 coax your rescue dog of a brain to do the 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.800 reasonable thing and come light down for a while. The 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.440 question of those angst written hours, and of this program 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:14.200 is why can't I sleep? We often hear that screens 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:16.679 and stress are to blame. But how much of our 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.080 insomnia is really a product of the modern lifestyle. How 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.119 much and how well to humans sleep? And why does 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.520 so many of us struggle with sleeplessness. Let's begin with 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:31.679 a little science. Let's talk body clocks. I work very 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:36.160 closely with blind veterans UK and these extraordinary individuals who 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:38.800 have lost their eyes as a result of combat or disease. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.600 They're essentially time blind. Not only have they lost their 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.000 sense of sight, but they've also lost their sense of 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.320 time because the eye isn't able to detect the light 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.880 dark cycle and set the internal master clock within the brain. 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.600 That is Russell Foster, director of the Sleep and Circadian 0:01:55.680 --> 0:02:01.040 Neuroscience Institute at the University of Oxford, and that term circadian. 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.880 It's the external light dark cycle, particularly at dawn and dusk, 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:10.520 that is detected by specialized receptors within the eye, which 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.640 then set the master clock within the brain, and that 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.960 allows us to be beautifully attuned and aligned to the 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.720 external world. Does our body know already that the day 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:21.640 is twenty four hours long or does it learn that 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:23.959 when we arrive on the planet. This is what's I 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.760 think so extraordinary, because the internal clock is a subcellular 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:32.040 molecular clock. So we could take almost any cell in 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.360 the body, put it in a dish and monitor its activity, 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.680 and it would show a near not exactly, but a 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:43.760 near twenty four oscillation. Russell is something of a sleep evangelist, 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:47.960 very pro sleep, and he's enthusiastic in describing the manifold 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.000 functions and benefits of getting a full night of it. 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:55.399 It's memory, consolidation, the processing of information. Some really important 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.560 data that's emerged recently has been the clearance of toxins 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:03.320 and particularly some misfolded proteins the plaques which have been 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:07.160 associated with the development of Alzheimer's. Sleep also plays a 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.560 role in keeping the immune system healthy. Studies have emerged 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.119 in the last few years showing that if you are 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:18.600 tired or sleep deprived prior to or immediately following an 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:23.120 inoculation for a vaccine, then your antibody response is actually 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.160 reduced if you're chronically tired. Russell thinks that sleep is 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:31.520 well slept on. Modern society doesn't value or prioritize it 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:35.960 as it should. We have become industrial creatures in the 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.880 past what two hundred years, and most rapidly since the 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:42.880 nineteen fifties, with a massive commercialization of cheap light at 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.040 night for electric light, we've invaded the night, and in 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:51.400 the process we've abandoned sleep. So we're fighting against millions 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:54.640 and certainly hundreds of thousands of years of evolutionary biology, 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.560 which is embraced sleep. And it's really interesting to think 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:06.000 how sleep was considered in the medieval parade. Historical records 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.960 suggest that in many parts of the medieval world, a 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.800 segmented pattern of sleep was the norm. People essentially slept 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.400 in two shifts. The first would last for a couple 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.240 of hours, and then you'd get up and maybe do 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.080 some work, or eat, or drink or pray, have sex, 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.840 visit with the neighbors or whatever. And in English, this 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:27.440 period of the night was sometimes called the watch. Then 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.159 you'd go back to bed for a second longer sleep 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:35.279 till morning. Historically, sleep has been prized, says Russell. In 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.680 the Elizabethan era, people were practically writing love poems about it. 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:46.360 I just think of Shakespeare the honey heavy dew of slumber, Sleep, sleep, 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.719 nature's softness, Have thy forsaken thee We intuitively seemed to 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.200 embrace sleep. But wait a minute, Wait a minute, because 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.280 I mean Shakespeare, hold On, Macbeth is an insomniac, right, 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:00.159 his life is a sleepwalker. Falstaff has sleep apnea. The 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.480 guy with the best take on on sleep as Hamlet, 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:07.960 as he's comtemplating suicide like everybody wants it and nobody's 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.320 getting it. It seems like that was true even in 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.960 Shakespeare's time. Absolutely, but they realized that if they weren't 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.680 getting it, they were in trouble. And now we actively 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:25.120 fight against it. At least in Shakespeare's time, the insomniacs 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:27.960 had the sense to lament what they were missing, whereas 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.680 now we might wear a sleepless night is a badge 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.799 of honor, proof positive that we stay grinding, and everybody 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:36.280 from Martha Stewart to Loewayne brags about how a few 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:41.479 hours they spend asleep. Okay, but let's pause on the 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.520 historical and cultural analysis for a second. Let's turn to Moody, 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:56.279 our sheet, a real life insomniac. If I were to say, hey, Moody, 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.240 what's your sleep life? Like? What are you say to me? 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:05.000 I'd really just like burst into tears. I have a toddler, 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:09.000 I have anxiety, and we've just moved, and my sleep 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:13.440 pattern is a feeling afraid in my bed is definitely 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.560 something that is familiar to me these days. Is it 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.279 like essentially a thresholding thing that It's like all of 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:24.160 the ghosts of my errors, concerns, and fears haunt me 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.640 around the clock, but I'm distracted from them in the 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.599 daytime hours, whereas they have top billing. At night, when 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:33.359 everything is dark and quiet, there are no other stimuli. 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.719 There are no distractions, or no people to keep alive, 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.120 or dogs to feed or phone calls. You're really alone 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.680 with your thoughts, and for me, that kind of amplifies 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.560 anything that's going on in my head. I'd say at 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.440 night anxiety is worse, which exacerbates sleep issues for sure. 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.719 But Moody's perspective on insomnia is informed by a lot 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.120 more than just personal experience. I'm a historian of the 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.320 ancient Middle East, ancient Assyria and Babylonia and the other 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:06.359 civilizations that occupied what we call ancient Mesopotamia, the land 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:10.440 between the rivers Tigris and Euphrates, which is now where 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.800 Iraq and Syria are. Did people suffer sleeplessness in the 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:15.960 same way, as near as you can tell, I think 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.920 it's hard to say for sure, but I do think 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.240 there are lots of common denominators in the kind of 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:26.880 contexts for sleeplessness, like feeling anxious or feeling depressed, or 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:31.760 experiencing other elements of mental distress. That link between anxiety 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:35.200 and sleep problems is worth underlining. The sleep Foundation in 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.640 the US notes the possibility of a vicious cycle. It's 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.560 hard to fall asleep if you're anxious, and then being 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:46.120 tired just increases the next day's anxiety. But how exactly 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.120 does Moody know about the complaints of people who did 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.560 their sleeping thousands of years ago? As it turns out, 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:56.600 she's got firsthand accounts ancient medical texts written in terra 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:01.440 cotta colored clay in a language called Acadian. Day to day, 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.320 I'm looking at someone's drawing of one of these objects. 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.600 But when I get to actually go to a museum 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:11.600 and look at one of these texts, it's a clay manuscript, 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.120 so it's a clay tablet. Some of them are sort 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.440 of the size of an iPhone, but the medical texts 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.120 are usually a little bit bigger, like a very geometric 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:23.080 looking writing system. Acadian is kind of like the great 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:28.480 great grand dad sort of grand aunt of Arabic, Hebrew, 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:34.120 Modern Assyrian, Aramaic, other Semitic language family groups. Can you 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.160 read Acadian? I can, and I love it. It's such 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:41.320 a beautiful language. An enormous number of these primary texts 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.560 have survived for thousands of years, so you've got a 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.319 real portal into the daily lives of people whose stories 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:53.160 otherwise might have been lost to history. The quite famous 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:58.120 library of Ashurbanipal in Nineveh was set on fire in 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.200 the ancient world as part of a sacking of the city, 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:07.720 and that bizarrely perhaps preserved all the tablets perfectly. An 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:12.160 ancient Mesopotamia as now, people might suffer insomnia for a 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.920 variety of reasons. Somebody might complain of a bodily ailment 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.120 that's keeping them awaken night. Yeah, so there's a description 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.319 of the person. My spleen hurts and I can't sleep. Um, 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.400 where is my spleen? I don't know where. I don't 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:29.800 know what where not a clue, or there might be stressed, 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.240 a condition which seems to have an etymological connection to 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:37.319 insomnia in the Akkadian language, so delipped too. It's a 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.960 noun that means sleeplessness or can sometimes mean just being 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.400 troubled in some way. What are the odds that we 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.640 can get delipped to trending on Twitter? I would say 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:51.400 pretty high considering stuff going on in the world, or 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.240 trouble sleeping might have been a symptom of a larger issue, 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:58.160 a cluster of complaints associated with a serious ailment. The 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.760 Assyrians didn't have a sense of journey is pathogenic vectors 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:05.479 for them. Sickness was often understood as the product of witchcraft. 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.320 You got sick because somebody put a spell on you. 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:13.720 What we call anti witchcraft texts basically descriptions of medical 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:18.240 experiences caused by witchcraft, and then the corresponding rituals or 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:23.960 incantations and medical prescriptions to deal with those issues. There's 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:28.000 a particular text that Moody thinks links insomnia with heartbreak, 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.800 which is an association that will probably be familiar to 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.400 anybody who has stayed up late at night scrolling the 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.800 social media account of your ex guys new girl. The 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:43.560 treatment involves the patient reciting like a prayer incantation addressed 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.959 to Ishtar, the goddess of love and war and ancient Mesopotamiam, 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.080 and in that he says and it is a heat. 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.640 I am tired, I am exhausted, I am ill, I 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:57.360 am vexed, I am sleepless, I am scared. That sounds 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.920 like a I don't know, it sounds like a mash 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.640 about a new Phoebe Bridgers record. Like that sounds like 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:26.040 the hook you know, super relatable. Ah aheah, I am 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:38.720 I am, I am see science. Okay, big shout out 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.000 here to Andy Thompson, musical genius for that bit of 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:49.320 bittersweet guitar on short notice. Oh. Now, as you may 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.280 already know, the consequences of not getting enough sleep can 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.800 be pretty ugly. Let's go back to Professor Russell. There's 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.800 now a very important link between chronic sleep deprivation and cancer. 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.400 It's a global impact on health. Lack of sleep in 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:05.800 the long term can result in a big list of 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:09.839 garbage outcomes for both mind and body. Fluctuation in moods, 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:13.880 increased irritability, anxiety, loss of empathy. We failed to pick 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:17.480 up those social signals from friends and colleagues. One very 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:24.439 important factor, of course, is risk taking an impulsivity. Cognitive 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.520 impairment due to sleep deprivation has made history and some 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:31.400 of our most memorable disasters. Think of the famous images 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:35.960 from January when the US launched the Challenger Space Shuttle. 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.760 We have a report from Leaply Dynamic confter that the 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:43.640 vehicle has exploded. By Director confirmed that we are looking 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.240 at checking with the recovery forces to see what can 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:52.320 be done. At this point, the Challenger Space Shuttle disaster 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.680 was a failure to appreciate consequences, and that's really very 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.480 clear as a result of relatively short amounts of sleep disruption. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.080 An investigation was launched to try to understand the cause 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.160 of the explosion, and a report from the Human Factors 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:13.040 Subcommittee listed severe sleep deprivation of NASA managers as a 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:18.360 contributing factor. And in your own life, you've probably noticed 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.520 that being super tired makes you less effective at whatever 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:25.680 it is you're trying to do. I suck when I'm tired. 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.600 I really suck. I'm very sensitive. But would you get 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.920 in the color and drive? I know, I'm a touring musician, right, 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.440 that's my my night job, I guess. And in the 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.600 beginning of my career, the way that we used to 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:43.720 treat night drives was super cavalier. Super cavalier, right. Everyone 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:45.400 was worried about had you had too much to drink, 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.840 but nobody was worried about how exhausted are you? And 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.280 then I think collectively a lot of people, at least 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.560 in my community learned because we were terrified of the 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:59.400 Stories of flipped van's night drives really scare me. I've 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.200 definitely been in a vehicle where somebody has drifted off 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.559 and the car has drifted onto the rumble strip. Because 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.360 the thing is, when you really need sleep, you can't 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.160 resist it through sheer force of will, Like physically, you 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.360 cannot stop yourself from nodding off. Yes, a micro sleep 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.400 is this sort of uncontrollable falling asleep so you can 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.920 actually be driving. There are these overwhelming, uncontrollable falling asleep 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.520 episodes because you're chronically tired, and a lot of people 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:29.600 have experienced these micro sleeps. Figures shared by the CDC 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.360 report that one adults drivers in the US say that 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.360 they've fallen asleep while driving in the past thirty days, 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.960 and drowsy driving contributes to over a hundred thousand accidents 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:44.479 annually in the US. Being chronically tired can be particularly 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.440 hasitous for people who work long hours or late into 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.160 the night. Think of the insane schedules of medical professionals. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.640 Well tired nurses and doctors do not perform the same 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.840 way that well rested nurses and doctors do. The amount 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:00.800 of time on the night shift can have a big 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:06.480 effect upon accident rates and harm to patients. If sleep 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.440 is so important, then why aren't we valuing it? Why 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.520 is low Wayne writing a song called no Sleep? Also 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:17.080 incidentally the titles of songs by a bunch of other rappers. 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.120 And Martha Stewart is bragging about running on four hours 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.280 a night. I think he goes back to a rather 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.920 puritan time when work was was virtuous, and therefore, because 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.960 when you're sleep, you can't work, sleep must be bad. 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.800 In her book Insomnia, a Luned Summers, Bremner notes that 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:45.400 Dutch Calvinists demanded that sleep be indulged in only in moderation, 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.680 and I quote English preachers of the seventeenth century made 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:54.840 sleep into the equivalent of moral disorder, which is heavy. 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.560 So let's go someplace untouched by Puritanism to see how 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:05.240 humans sleep there. I've actually spent extended field work in 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:09.560 multiple sites, probably close to a year in Bolivia with 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.720 the chimane, maybe about three or four months with the 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.640 san people in in the Kalahari also sometimes called the bushman, 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.800 and more recently, I've spent maybe about three or four 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:24.480 months with the Hadza in Tanzania, who are also hunter gatherers. 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.280 That is. Gandhi as an anthropologist who studies the sleep 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.120 habits of people who are not concerned with calvinism or 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:35.880 screen time or corporate burnout. Gandhi conducts his research by 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.680 asking a lot of questions, how tired were you when 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:40.520 you went to bed, do you have any dreams? Did 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.280 you wake up during the night? And he asks study 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.960 participants to wear an accelerometer, a device kind of like 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.440 a fitbit that records their patterns of physical activity. These 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.040 are populations where people don't have money, they don't have 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.680 indoor plumbing. Most of them today live in relative isolation, 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.360 and they certainly don't have a nine to five work schedule, 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:01.960 which is what makes them useful for your studying sleep. 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:06.160 You are living with people who are in smaller communities, 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.320 aren't connected to the grid in the same way that 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.719 we are. Are They sleeping like, you know, ten hours 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:17.680 a night and uninterruptedly and waking fresh faced every day? 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.640 Like what is their sleep experience? Compared to ours. Actual 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:25.760 sleep duration would be somewhere around six to seven hours 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.040 per night, which is actually pretty much the same pattern 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.200 we have in the US. If that surprises you, me too. 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.800 A lot of us somewhere along the way picked up 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.240 the number eight. You're supposed to get eight hours of 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:42.960 shut I every night, but recommendations from the National Sleep 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.200 Foundation highlight how that changes over the course of development. 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.000 Newborns are supposed to get fourteen to seventeen hours a day, 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:54.080 which makes them horrible Dutch Calvinists. For adults, the recommendation 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.600 is seven to nine hours, but the need varies from 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.679 person to person and night tonight. The right amount of 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.240 sleep for you is the amount that enables you to 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:08.880 wake up well rested and ready for the day. Gandhi 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.800 has recorded a notable difference, though, in the time that's 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.000 earmarked for sleep in the communities he studied if they 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.440 spend more time in bed. Time in bed is your 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:23.200 conscious decision, and sleep duration is not a conscious decision. 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.840 That means they don't have to optimize their horizontal hours 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.760 to ring every minute of rest out of them like 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.520 there's a comfortable margin of air. Do you have a 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.960 confident answer to the question what is normal human sleep? 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:40.800 Normal human sleep fits into your day, like you don't 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.680 shape your day around your sleep, you shape your sleep 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.399 around your day. When people ask me from the other side, 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.760 like why study sleep, my new elevator pitch is that 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.520 the only things that are important in your life will 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.080 affect your sleep. So if something really great happens, you're 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.120 staying up late, that affects your sleep. If you're really 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.080 troubled by some thing and you're feeling anxiety, that affects 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.920 your sleep. If you've ever read a magazine about getting 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.800 better sleep, you've probably been told how important it is 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.879 to have a routine to keep your bedroom a sanctum 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:15.800 for rest. However, I've found that consistency from night tonight 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:20.440 is totally a Western recommendation thing. When you have the 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.960 ability to control your environment, you can try to do 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.320 things like that and sleep at the same time every 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.600 night and have these routines and rituals to kind of 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.000 get yourself into the mood to sleep. But in the 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:34.880 environments I've been working in, people don't have that level 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.840 of control. It's the environment that tells them when to sleep, 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.040 not their own ritual. Are the populations that you've spent 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:46.040 time with. Are they as frequently tired as people who 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.720 are living in industrial societies? Definitely not. They are more 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:54.479 rested and less tired. Why I think that your sleep 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:58.679 and your awake have to kind of reach this dynamic equilibrium. 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.720 I think it's kind of where in our populations in 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.560 the West, where time is money, you really push yourself 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:10.000 and you really take this flexible phenotype of sleep that 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.720 we we have the biological capacity to limit it to 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:17.120 pursue waking activities, and we really stretch it as far 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:19.159 as it can possibly go to the point where we 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:27.760 start suffering consequences. Humans are made of flexible stuff. We 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.960 adapt our schedules and lifestyles to our particular circumstances, and 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.360 modern schedules have stretched the elastic about as far as 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:39.800 it will go without starting to fray. I think that 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.919 it's almost like diabetes, because we achieved something as a 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.840 society where food is so plentiful and sugar is so 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.920 abundant that we now get sick from it. That we're 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:53.679 so good at staying up late after dark and making 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:56.199 good use of that time, that now that we're all 0:20:56.280 --> 0:21:00.840 chronically sleep deprived, we just push and push push ourselves 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:06.119 really freaking hard. The brain can become so tired it 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.600 can't detect how tired it is, and we fool ourselves 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:13.800 spectacularly into thinking you're perfectly okay, but actually your cognitive 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.920 abilities are really really on the floor. That, of course 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:20.359 is our guy rustling in. So what steps can we 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.720 actually take to improve our sleep lives? Get as much 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.760 natural light as possible, particularly in the morning. It sets 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:29.480 the body clock, which sets the sleep wake cycle, and 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:33.840 morning light is really good for stabilizing Most people skip 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:37.680 the sleeping pills. All of the currently available sleeping tablets 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:41.840 have the problem that they sedate you. They don't provide 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:44.960 a biological mimic for sleep, and don't get too caught 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:48.000 up in the sleep apps and all their color coded analytics. 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:50.600 Some of the problems that people are getting with commercially 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:54.160 available apps are really sending them into a tail spin. 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:56.680 One person came up to me before COVID and said, 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.240 my app is telling me I don't get any slow 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:02.359 way sleep. And so this chap actually would wake himself 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:04.920 up at three o'clock in the morning to check how 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.280 much slow wave sleep his app was telling him. At first, 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:10.439 of all, these apps are really bad at telling us 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:12.080 about slow wave sleep and all the rest of it, 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.440 and we don't even really understand what slow wave sleep 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:17.840 is for, so roughly, when did you go to sleep, 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:20.280 when do you wake up? How many interrupts in the night. 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.960 That's kind of useful information, but I think more than 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.080 that you can be misleading and in fact, really rather harmful. 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:30.200 It generates more anxiety. So take him with a pinch 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.840 of salt. God, it does have a real cool, like 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.880 fireplace sound that I got super into here, but it's 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:42.240 like so much of technology, it's deeply seductive, all right, James, 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:48.000 James hit me. Oh that's a nice It's just a 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:53.040 nice How could you not like that? Okay, cut it. 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:59.480 I don't want anybody falling asleep before done. Given that 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:04.080 sleep is so fundamental, I mean, why is it that 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:08.159 we suck at getting enough of it? Sleep is just 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.760 another victim of human arrogance that we're above the grubby 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:15.280 world of biology. We're not. We expect to do whatever 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:17.800 we want, whatever time of day, and we now know 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.800 that that's not possible. I think things are changing now. 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.800 We appreciate and the society is appreciating the incredible value 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:29.320 of sleep. I've noticed that shift to friends, colleagues, famous 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.280 people that I follow online all seem to be recognizing 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:36.240 the importance of rest. The NAP Ministry, which frames rest 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.560 as a form of resistance, has almost halfamillion followers on 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:43.399 Instagram alone, which can be called comfort if you're walking 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:46.080 down a mental staircase in your head at three am, 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:49.000 furious that your body seems so reluctant to meet its 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:54.520 own biological imperative. A final thought from Moody are insomniac 0:23:54.760 --> 0:24:00.239 seriologist is an amazing phrase during a hard night can 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.119 bed knowing that you need rest unable to get it? 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:06.680 Have you recited that incantation? I have tried a lot 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:08.920 of things, but I haven't tried that, And you've just 0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:12.159 given me the idea why not tonight? Tonight is the 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:17.399 night a star you'll be hearing from me. We may 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:20.760 struggle to sleep because we're anxious, and then struggle to 0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:24.199 quell our anxieties because we're tired. Hashtag to lip too, 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:27.639 and more generally, we struggle because we've tried to slot 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:30.560 sleep into a neat little window in our schedules. We 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:33.040 expect ourselves to do it on command, at the hour 0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:35.120 that is most convenient for the rest of our more 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:42.119 important lives. But falling into sleep like love is not 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:45.679 entirely self determined. You can only set the mood and 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:48.080 then make way for time and gravity to do their work. 0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:55.119 And that My far Flown Friends is our last program 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:58.240 of Deeply Human second season, which means it's time to 0:24:58.320 --> 0:25:01.359 roll credits. So why don't you just why don't you 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:03.960 just tuck in and we'll do this a s m 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:10.879 R style. Our series producer is Simon Maybin. Producers are 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:16.800 our Len Gregorio's Ellie House, Beth Sagar Fenton, Sandra Kenthal, 0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:20.600 and Craig Templeton Smith with help from Hannah au Guru 0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:26.520 and May Cameron. Our editor is Hugh Levinson. Our production 0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:31.320 coordinator is Janet Staples, and this season was mixed by 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:38.640