WEBVTT - Creating a Post-Layoff Action Plan w/ Marlo Lyons #980 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.720 Welcome to out of money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt's and 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:06.080 today we're talking creating a post layoff action plan with 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:07.160 Marlowe Lyons. 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:29.000 Yeah. So gone are the years of constantly job hopping 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:32.400 in order to rapidly boost your salary. Like it seemed 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.080 like for a minute their Joel, like everyone was looking 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:36.919 at job postings as regularly as they were looking at 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.519 houses on Zillo. True story, or maybe that was just me. 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.479 But with the uncertainty though that we've experienced in the 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.760 overall market, it's not just the new hires who are 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.000 a bit nervous about hanging onto their jobs, even the 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.400 government workers out there, or maybe I should even say 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.000 especially the government workers. I don't know, but you know, 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.400 they thought they had fairly secure positions. They might be 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.680 on the chopping block. They might be sweat a little bit. 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.080 Which is why I'm glad that we get to talk 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.600 with career coach Marlowe Lions, because not only does she 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.080 have over twenty years of experience in this field, she 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:16.120 herself has actually been fired multiple times. Marlin oh Catha 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.680 was multiple time. Sorry I don't bring that up, you know, 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:21.399 in order to knock you, like I think This is 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:23.880 a strength because I think this gives you a unique 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:28.360 perspective into this position that many folks are finding themselves in. Uh. 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.760 Marlowe is the author of Wanted a New Career, where 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:33.759 she goes in depth on pivoting to a new career. 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:38.160 She's got a new book about landing that first job. 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.520 She's host of the Work Unscripted podcast, and we're actually 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:43.800 very pumped to hear the advice that she's going to 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.600 be able to share with our listeners today during our conversation. 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:49.080 So marlow lyons, thank you so much for joining. 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:50.320 Us, Thank you for having me. 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.040 Glad to have you, marlow first question out of the gate, 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:54.640 we got to ask you, what do you like to 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.280 support John Matt for Matt Night's. It's been craft beer 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.400 for a long time. You know we have other things too, 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:00.920 But what is that for you? What do you like 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:02.880 to sporge on while you're still doing smart stuff with 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:03.800 your money for your future? 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.160 Okay, I gotta tell you I don't spoage on things. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.080 I spores on experiences. So last summer, my family and 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:11.679 I went to Europe for six. 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:15.240 Weeks, six weeks, six weeks. 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.760 And toward Europe and look I mean, I did stay 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.360 on points at certain places and we used points for 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:24.600 airfare between countries and things like that, but but also 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.239 stayed in a castle one night, stayed in a cave 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:27.839 one night. 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:28.360 Like it was. 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.160 We did some really cool experiences. We did truffle hunting, 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:35.200 cooked with our truffles afterwards. 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:40.080 At oh, of course it was yeah outside caves. 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:42.079 You said you slept in a cave. That right, Yeah, 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:42.720 it's like a cave. 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.200 It's a cave hotel in Madera. It was the list 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.080 experience ever. We had a pool and not not a 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.359 hot tub, a pool in our room, like a pool 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:54.720 that you could swim in the pool like in our bedroom. 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:55.200 All right. 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:56.120 It was the coolest thing. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.079 I literally wrote down cave hotel. 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:00.240 It was. 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.800 We had the best time, I mean, And what was 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.200 so nice is like I really got to know my 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.400 kids really closely, and we had like great conversations and 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.000 by the end they were getting us to the next train, 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.280 they were telling us where we needed to go, you know, 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:16.360 we're running all over Europe. 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:16.680 It was. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.440 It was awesome. So I'm big on experiences. So my 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.240 next experience, well it's not mine, it's actually my daughter's, 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.360 but we got her tickets to the Straight Kids concert 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.680 in LA. She got Straight Kids, which is a K 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.560 pop band. So okay, so that's her next experience. 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:30.919 Good to know, that's what I was. 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.360 All right, Marlo, let's talk about work, because I will 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.320 correct myself. You haven't been fired multiple times. I guess 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.600 I just read different different accounts of the same firing. 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.560 It was just firing, maybe just one time, but it 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:49.680 seemed like it was from an early job, and it 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:51.840 sounded like that had a pretty big impact on you. 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.000 Can you maybe explain how that's firing at that point 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:56.760 in time, how that helped you to pivot? Yeah? 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:02.160 Yeah, I was twenty six and I was I would say, 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:08.000 you know, a young kind of immature, almost call myself 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:12.720 a teenager. Still even though it was my third job, right, 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:14.720 I was a TV news reporter and it was my 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.040 third job, I still felt like, you know, I was 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.400 empowered to say anything I ever wanted to say when 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:23.960 I wanted to say it. And so, unfortunately I didn't 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.120 work for a boss who you know, was trained in 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.840 EQ and back then there was no EQ, right, there 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.280 was no like training in these things. And so instead 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.080 of like talking to me about it and wondering what 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:35.599 was going on. And I can tell you what was 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.160 going on. I got fired, and what was going on 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.840 was I had been engaged and then unengaged about six 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.000 months earlier. So I was pretty angry and I was 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.719 pretty sad, and I was pretty like, you know, trying 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:48.280 to figure it out. And it was showing up at 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.200 work unfortunately, and there was no question about it. Just 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.680 got fired. And look, I don't blame that boss at all. 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.320 I thank that boss to this day. If he's ever 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.520 listening to this, I literally would thank him in person, 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:05.000 you know, not because you know that I feel like 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.560 he changed my life in that moment. And what he 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.680 did was he maybe kind of reflects on who I 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:13.520 was and who I wanted to be and how I 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:17.040 wanted to be. And it allowed me to really take 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:21.720 control of my emotions and take control of my trajectory. 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.839 And what was so interesting is that this was like 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.640 when the Internet was just getting going. So yes, I'm old, 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.919 I'm sorry, but I'm not too old. I feel like 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.360 i'm thirty, so let's just go with that. But the 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:34.880 Internet was just getting going and I was a TV 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.239 news reporter and I could see once I was fired. 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.279 Once I could pause for a minute. I could see, Wow, Okay, 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.280 we're not going to eat TV news much longer because 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.440 the Internet, right, We're going to have news on the Internet. 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.280 And so it gave me a second to go, all right, 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.560 what do I want to do? Do I want to 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.880 do TV news forever? What am I going to do 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:55.840 with this? And so I got back in to get 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.040 out basically, and that's when I went to law school 0:05:58.080 --> 0:05:59.800 at night, and then I worked as an entertainment at 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.240 Turn and then again made a pivot after that because 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.280 after twelve years of that, I had had enough and 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.520 moved into HR and that's when I got certified for 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:10.640 in coaching and I loved it. 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.080 Talk to me about your the first job that you 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:16.680 went after. The gumption that you displayed getting that first 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.320 job was incredible, I think, And can you talk to 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.400 us about that process, because it feels like the way 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.520 most people apply for jobs these days. It's kind of like, 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.280 let me just send in the resume, see what happens. 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:28.560 Yeah, and it doesn't work. 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.080 You didn't take that approach, No, I know what. 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:31.800 You're referring to. 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:36.960 I convinced my parents back in the day before cell phones, right, 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:38.960 so they couldn't reach me at any time those types 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.040 of things before computers, very few people had computers that 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.760 are very expensive. I convinced my parents to allow me 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.200 to drive from DC to Texas and back, and I 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.520 interviewed it every TV station along the way, and back 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.640 in the day there was ABCNBC, CBS, and maybe a 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.960 few Foxes here and there. And I drove from DC 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:02.080 to Alpaso, Texas and back, multiple stories in that, of course, 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:04.480 but without a cell phone, without a computer. I had 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.360 a little brotherword processor writing thank you notes as I 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.880 was traveling and making phone calls trying to get meetings 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.360 the day before every time I would move locations, and 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:17.440 I came home with no job and so, but I 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.360 also came home to an answering machine message from a 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.280 news director that I had sent a tape to and 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:27.800 he was in Medford, Oregon, and he said he'd like 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.200 to talk to me about an associate producer job. And 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.880 so I moved then from DC to Oregon for my 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.520 first job. But you know the thing about that is 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:37.520 you can't do that today, Like nobody's gonna let you 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.360 in the door right at these companies. If you went 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.800 and drove around and started dropping off resumes. Nobody wants 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:43.400 to see a paper resume. They want you to apply 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.680 through the applicant tracking system. But the concept of networking 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:50.880 still exists today. The concept of meeting people, the concept 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.840 of getting out of your house right, the concept the 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.960 concept of reaching out to people and trying to get 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.200 meet and greets and not asking for a job, but 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:01.920 getting them to know you and asking where you can 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.240 fill a gap? Right or is there anything you can 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.560 do for them? Like that still exists. It's different today, 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.040 but but it does exist. And I think you need 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.640 to have that tenacity, and you need to have that curiosity, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.520 and you need to have that gumption, like you said, 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.280 to figure out what is the strategy that's not working 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:21.160 and how to find the strategy that will. 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:23.960 You had a job as a producer, I think you said, 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.360 an entertainment attorney, like from what I understand, like you 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.720 were interviewing applicants to like the real world like shows 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.560 on the TV or chopped things like that. Talk about 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.559 this variety of careers that you had. I think there's 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.360 a part of me that's encouraged because I feel like 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.400 the all the jobs I've had, they've been go through 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.520 line like related to each other. It's been quite the range, 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:48.160 but I'm curious to hear you speak to that. 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:50.480 Yeah, there is a through line, like when you think 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:52.440 about it. First of all, there's no job you'll ever 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.400 have in your life that you don't gain skills from. 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:57.160 You will always gain skills. I don't care if you're 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.800 flipping burgers, you will gain skills. And so for me, 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:02.840 I started as a TV news reporter. I started as 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.440 an associate producer. I was producing medical reports that a 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.440 local doctor would voice. Then I became a reporter, which 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:12.120 is what I wanted to do, and then I decided, 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.160 you know, you heard what happened. I got fired, and 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:15.600 so I was like, all right, I want to get 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:16.840 out of this, Like, I don't want to do this, 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:18.319 and I definitely don't want to be in a situation 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.520 again where I'm on my own trying to figure out 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:22.720 what to do when I get fired. So I decided 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:24.040 I was going to go to law school at night. 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:26.640 I always had an interest in it, and so I 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:30.280 worked at a TV news station in Oklahoma City, and 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.480 I basically worked from eight to five. I was on 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:34.760 the four and five o'clock news doing a consumer report 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:36.520 and then I would go to law school from six 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:37.880 to nine at night, and then I would meet the 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:39.840 live truck at ten o'clock for a live shot on 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.480 an investigative report. And I did this for three and 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.240 a half years and graduated, and then I moved to 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.400 la to be a screenwriter. You can see how that 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:52.600 turned out, although right now I do have a little 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.520 script floating around Hollywood still. But that didn't so work out, 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.800 but sometimes things happened. Twenty years later and then I 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:06.880 got a job working in what's called reality diligence, So 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.800 you're doing background check, psych and medical on all the 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.440 reality show participants. And I worked on I worked on 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:15.600 all of the shows that you can imagine, so NBC 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.120 and then viacom So at NBC, I worked on The Apprentice, 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.720 and I worked on Real Housewives when it was just 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.600 starting with Teresa Goodize and all these people. And then 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.079 from there, you know, I did that for twelve years, 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.240 and it's amazing to talk about at cocktail parties. But 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.600 after twelve years, I had had enough. I was exhausted, 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:36.439 right so, cause remember you're dealing with people that are 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:42.040 that are sane but barely in some in some cases, 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:46.720 in some cases right, very colorful backgrounds, and so so 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.360 then I decided I had no idea what I wanted 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.560 to do. I was completely lost, and so I started 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.320 trying to figure out what I could do with my skills, 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.360 and that was the wrong approach. And what I was 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.560 looking for was how do I just get fulfilled? 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:00.840 Like, how do I just be happy? 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.560 How do I find the thing? And the wrong approach 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.040 is what can I do with what I've done. That's 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.400 the wrong approach because then you're only looking at things 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.840 that you have skills for, and I wasn't looking at 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.000 things that would actually fulfill me. And I worked with 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.680 a career coach, interestingly enough briefly, and he said, you 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.800 know what lights you on fire, what gets you excited, 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:20.920 what gets you out of bed in the morning. And 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.280 I came up with a list of things, and from 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.480 there I was able to figure out that I wanted 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:29.640 to be in HR now, and that comes from wanting 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:33.080 to help people and wanting to, you know, explain why 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:35.960 this was the wrong move. But it's about, you know, 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.600 I wanted to help people and I wanted to, you know, 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.160 help people succeed in their lives and things like that, 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:45.040 and I realized I went to get certified and coaching 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.120 because every job description that I saw that resonated with 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.240 me had the word coaching it a thousand times. I 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.200 loved the coaching courses, loved it. It took a year, 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.400 year and a half to get certified, and I absolutely 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.839 loved it. And then I moved to Roku, which was 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:02.680 my first HR job. But HR was it was a startup, 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.120 like it was four hundred people. So HR was all 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.760 about coaching the C suite. So I coached the head 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.400 of players, the head of advertise advertising, the CFO, CMO, 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.920 and general counsel. And that's all I did all day 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.320 is I just coached them and their teams all day long. 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.120 I loved it. I loved the job. I loved everything 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.760 about it. I did ORG design and change management and 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.560 I loved it. Well. Then I decided, well, you know, 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:26.800 they don't really have an HR department, so they don't 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.920 really do the other HR things like performance management or 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.840 learning and development or all those things. I said, God, 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:34.719 I really need to think about, like how am I 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:36.440 going to get the rest of the HR experience. So 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.800 I moved to Intuitive Surgical, which is a medical technology company, 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.679 A phenomenal company. But I realized one thing very quickly. 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:47.880 I wasn't coaching as much. I was still coaching at 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.480 the c suite level and whatnot, but I was doing 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:51.640 all these other things in HR. 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.200 And I don't love that stuff. And you know, HR 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:56.199 is not really. 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.560 About helping people. It's about aligning people's skills and capabilities 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:03.720 to the company goals. That's what the job is. I 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.640 get that, but I was always I always like to 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.160 help people. And when you're coaching somebody, whether it's how 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.840 to give hard feedback or you know, how to do 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.840 an org design or things like that, you're actually coaching. 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:16.880 You are helping it away, you are helping the company. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.360 You're still doing the goal of HR, which is aligning 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:24.240 those capabilities. But when you're doing other things in HR, 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.080 it doesn't feel like you're really helping as much. 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.000 Yeah. Yeah, nice. Yeah, So it all came back to 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.120 helping folks on an individual level. But can we like, 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.160 I guess to zoom out for a quick second, because 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.120 we've and I kind of mentioned this in the intro, 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.119 but we've had an incredible run of really low unemployment 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.200 in the country. Yeah, but that era, it looks like 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.839 it might be coming to an ad over. Yeah, as 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.319 a career coach, like I would love to hear your 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.600 take your current assessment of the overall labor market. 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.760 Yeah. You know, when I left Intuitive, it is because 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:55.400 they were calling people back to the office and we 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.800 had moved states, and so I was petrified right afterwards 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.760 to answer your question, like I thought, oh my god, 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.200 I got to find another job, but this market is horrible. 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.680 How am I going to find another job? And I realized, 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:08.760 you know, I had a side coaching business for ten years, 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.360 so I just went out on my own and it's 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.440 been great. But this market is the probably the worst 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.880 market I've seen in a very long time, probably since 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.400 two thousand and eight, but it has lasted longer. This 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.280 has actually been going on for well over a year. 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.200 This didn't just start in January. 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.080 Which is a big whiplash, a big change from what 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:26.920 we were experiencing just a few short years ago. 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:31.080 It is absolutely and I saw this in two thousand 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:32.720 and eight, you know, I was coaching back then as 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:34.680 well and again now. 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:35.360 But this is worse. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:37.840 It is actually a lot worse because I think in 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:39.640 two thousand and eight, you know, we saw all the 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:43.120 layoffs happen, you know, with the market crash, and it 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.040 lasted until about twenty ten. This has already been going 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.360 on for over two years easily, and so and we've 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.680 got at least another year or so of this, if 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.840 not longer, depending upon you know, how the government sways, shall. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.240 We say, But it's rough, it's very rough. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.280 And I and I tell my clients that I'm like, 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.320 you know, I can help you get prepared to get 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:05.120 a job. I can do everything in my power to 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.640 make sure you are capable of getting a job. I 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:09.680 can't get you a job. And I've said that, you 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.360 know for the last over a decade or twenty years 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.280 that I've been doing this, And I never promise getting 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.320 them job because I'm not in the interviews right I 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.000 can't whisper in their ear as they're answering the question. 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:22.400 But they will be one hundred percent prepared to answer 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.200 the questions. And so and right now, you know, people 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.400 need to they need to take a breath, you know, 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.560 they need to take a breath, and they need to 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.840 just understand that it's going to take longer if they're 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.000 looking for a new job, it's going to take longer. 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.800 But they are capable of getting one. There are jobs 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:40.560 out there. It's not like there are no jobs out 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:41.040 there at all. 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.560 You're making me think of the real estate market for 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.240 some reason, and how like a real turk can help 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.280 you price it and they can help you talk about 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.000 curb appeal and get the house ready, but they don't 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.280 have control over what's happening in the overall market. 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.080 Is it a buyer's market? Is a seller's market? 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.880 Like? How long our listings hang out typically? And we 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:58.440 can make sure you're on the shorter end of that 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.160 if we do this, this, this, and this, but there's 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:02.119 still no guarantee. 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:03.360 I'm curious. 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.440 So you know, you're not a personal finance expert, but 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.400 you are a career coach. What are the common money 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.600 concerns that you hear from clients? You talk to people, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.720 I'm sure often yeah, post layoff, what. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:14.320 Are they feeling? 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.080 Are they like, got to get that new job stat 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.040 because I don't have any cash on hand? 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.080 Are what's going through people's minds? 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:24.640 Yeah, people are, of course super concerned. Some people get 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.240 exit packages, some people don't, right, some people just get 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.600 laid off and they get one week severance if nothing. 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.720 There is no law in this country that says you 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.160 deserve a severance or you will receive a severance. 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:37.840 So know that if you. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:39.720 Are employed right now and you're happy in your job, 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:41.880 just know that there is no law that says you're 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:43.960 going to get anything now. There might be company policies, 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:46.480 but those can change on a whim. So you got 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.000 to keep that in mind because I think a lot 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.320 of people are concerned of how long it's going to take. 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:56.080 They're concerned will their money last. And unemployment in the 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.080 United States, as you know, does not pay much of anything. 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.680 Maybe it'll pay for your gas that week, or maybe 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.320 they won't afford eggs these days, so but it won't 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.360 pay for much. And so I think they're just kind 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:09.879 of wondering, do I have to sell my four O 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.919 one K? Do I have to you know, sell other things? 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.040 Do I have to sell my house? I've heard that. 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:17.919 And then one of the biggest concerns is can I 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.399 get the same amount of money I got before? Because 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.480 That's what I've been living at. And I will tell 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.679 you that the prices are coming down, like the salaries 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:32.800 are coming down a lot, so like twenty thirty forty thousand. 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.560 Dollars, So what you were paid before, you. 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.760 May not be paid for the same job now. And 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.520 also you have to consider like level, like a director 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.160 in tech might make the same thing that a VP 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.919 makes an entertainment right, you have to consider both the 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:47.480 industry and also the level that you're going in at, 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.640 and whether it's a startup or it's an established company. 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.640 So all of those things matter. And I think they're 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.480 just really concerned will I make the same amount? And 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.520 the chances are you might not. So if that's your 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.280 only itteria, you're going to have to open your mind 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.680 a little bit more to other things and not look 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.399 at it as a step back, but as a market shift. 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:10.879 You said a yeah, you got to open your mind. Earlier, 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.600 you said that you want folks to breathe or to 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.280 take a breath. Yeah, are you a fan of folks 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.520 taking us a sabbatical. We've We've talked with someone not 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.880 too long ago about using a layoff as a potential 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.040 time to reflect. And this is what I mean. It 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:26.600