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Speaker 1: Welcome to out of money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt's and

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Speaker 1: today we're talking creating a post layoff action plan with

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Speaker 1: Marlowe Lyons.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So gone are the years of constantly job hopping

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Speaker 2: in order to rapidly boost your salary. Like it seemed

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Speaker 2: like for a minute their Joel, like everyone was looking

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Speaker 2: at job postings as regularly as they were looking at

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Speaker 2: houses on Zillo. True story, or maybe that was just me.

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Speaker 2: But with the uncertainty though that we've experienced in the

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Speaker 2: overall market, it's not just the new hires who are

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Speaker 2: a bit nervous about hanging onto their jobs, even the

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Speaker 2: government workers out there, or maybe I should even say

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Speaker 2: especially the government workers. I don't know, but you know,

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Speaker 2: they thought they had fairly secure positions. They might be

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Speaker 2: on the chopping block. They might be sweat a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Which is why I'm glad that we get to talk

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Speaker 2: with career coach Marlowe Lions, because not only does she

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Speaker 2: have over twenty years of experience in this field, she

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Speaker 2: herself has actually been fired multiple times. Marlin oh Catha

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Speaker 2: was multiple time. Sorry I don't bring that up, you know,

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Speaker 2: in order to knock you, like I think This is

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Speaker 2: a strength because I think this gives you a unique

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Speaker 2: perspective into this position that many folks are finding themselves in. Uh.

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Speaker 2: Marlowe is the author of Wanted a New Career, where

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Speaker 2: she goes in depth on pivoting to a new career.

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Speaker 2: She's got a new book about landing that first job.

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Speaker 2: She's host of the Work Unscripted podcast, and we're actually

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Speaker 2: very pumped to hear the advice that she's going to

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Speaker 2: be able to share with our listeners today during our conversation.

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Speaker 2: So marlow lyons, thank you so much for joining.

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Speaker 3: Us, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Glad to have you, marlow first question out of the gate,

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Speaker 1: we got to ask you, what do you like to

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Speaker 1: support John Matt for Matt Night's. It's been craft beer

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Speaker 1: for a long time. You know we have other things too,

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Speaker 1: But what is that for you? What do you like

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Speaker 1: to sporge on while you're still doing smart stuff with

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Speaker 1: your money for your future?

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Speaker 3: Okay, I gotta tell you I don't spoage on things.

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Speaker 3: I spores on experiences. So last summer, my family and

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Speaker 3: I went to Europe for six.

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Speaker 4: Weeks, six weeks, six weeks.

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Speaker 3: And toward Europe and look I mean, I did stay

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Speaker 3: on points at certain places and we used points for

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Speaker 3: airfare between countries and things like that, but but also

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Speaker 3: stayed in a castle one night, stayed in a cave

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Speaker 3: one night.

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Speaker 4: Like it was.

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Speaker 3: We did some really cool experiences. We did truffle hunting,

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Speaker 3: cooked with our truffles afterwards.

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Speaker 4: At oh, of course it was yeah outside caves.

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Speaker 1: You said you slept in a cave. That right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like a cave.

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Speaker 3: It's a cave hotel in Madera. It was the list

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Speaker 3: experience ever. We had a pool and not not a

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Speaker 3: hot tub, a pool in our room, like a pool

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Speaker 3: that you could swim in the pool like in our bedroom.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 4: It was the coolest thing.

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Speaker 2: I literally wrote down cave hotel.

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Speaker 4: It was.

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Speaker 3: We had the best time, I mean, And what was

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Speaker 3: so nice is like I really got to know my

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Speaker 3: kids really closely, and we had like great conversations and

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Speaker 3: by the end they were getting us to the next train,

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Speaker 3: they were telling us where we needed to go, you know,

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Speaker 3: we're running all over Europe.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 3: It was awesome. So I'm big on experiences. So my

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Speaker 3: next experience, well it's not mine, it's actually my daughter's,

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Speaker 3: but we got her tickets to the Straight Kids concert

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Speaker 3: in LA. She got Straight Kids, which is a K

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Speaker 3: pop band. So okay, so that's her next experience.

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Speaker 4: Good to know, that's what I was.

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Speaker 2: All right, Marlo, let's talk about work, because I will

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Speaker 2: correct myself. You haven't been fired multiple times. I guess

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Speaker 2: I just read different different accounts of the same firing.

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Speaker 2: It was just firing, maybe just one time, but it

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Speaker 2: seemed like it was from an early job, and it

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Speaker 2: sounded like that had a pretty big impact on you.

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Speaker 2: Can you maybe explain how that's firing at that point

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Speaker 2: in time, how that helped you to pivot? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was twenty six and I was I would say,

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Speaker 3: you know, a young kind of immature, almost call myself

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Speaker 3: a teenager. Still even though it was my third job, right,

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Speaker 3: I was a TV news reporter and it was my

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Speaker 3: third job, I still felt like, you know, I was

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Speaker 3: empowered to say anything I ever wanted to say when

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Speaker 3: I wanted to say it. And so, unfortunately I didn't

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Speaker 3: work for a boss who you know, was trained in

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Speaker 3: EQ and back then there was no EQ, right, there

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Speaker 3: was no like training in these things. And so instead

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Speaker 3: of like talking to me about it and wondering what

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Speaker 3: was going on. And I can tell you what was

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Speaker 3: going on. I got fired, and what was going on

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Speaker 3: was I had been engaged and then unengaged about six

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Speaker 3: months earlier. So I was pretty angry and I was

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Speaker 3: pretty sad, and I was pretty like, you know, trying

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Speaker 3: to figure it out. And it was showing up at

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Speaker 3: work unfortunately, and there was no question about it. Just

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Speaker 3: got fired. And look, I don't blame that boss at all.

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Speaker 3: I thank that boss to this day. If he's ever

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Speaker 3: listening to this, I literally would thank him in person,

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Speaker 3: you know, not because you know that I feel like

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Speaker 3: he changed my life in that moment. And what he

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Speaker 3: did was he maybe kind of reflects on who I

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Speaker 3: was and who I wanted to be and how I

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Speaker 3: wanted to be. And it allowed me to really take

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Speaker 3: control of my emotions and take control of my trajectory.

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Speaker 3: And what was so interesting is that this was like

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Speaker 3: when the Internet was just getting going. So yes, I'm old,

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but I'm not too old. I feel like

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Speaker 3: i'm thirty, so let's just go with that. But the

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Speaker 3: Internet was just getting going and I was a TV

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Speaker 3: news reporter and I could see once I was fired.

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Speaker 3: Once I could pause for a minute. I could see, Wow, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we're not going to eat TV news much longer because

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Speaker 3: the Internet, right, We're going to have news on the Internet.

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Speaker 3: And so it gave me a second to go, all right,

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Speaker 3: what do I want to do? Do I want to

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Speaker 3: do TV news forever? What am I going to do

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Speaker 3: with this? And so I got back in to get

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Speaker 3: out basically, and that's when I went to law school

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Speaker 3: at night, and then I worked as an entertainment at

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Speaker 3: Turn and then again made a pivot after that because

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Speaker 3: after twelve years of that, I had had enough and

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Speaker 3: moved into HR and that's when I got certified for

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Speaker 3: in coaching and I loved it.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about your the first job that you

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Speaker 1: went after. The gumption that you displayed getting that first

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Speaker 1: job was incredible, I think, And can you talk to

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Speaker 1: us about that process, because it feels like the way

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Speaker 1: most people apply for jobs these days. It's kind of like,

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Speaker 1: let me just send in the resume, see what happens.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: You didn't take that approach, No, I know what.

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Speaker 4: You're referring to.

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Speaker 3: I convinced my parents back in the day before cell phones, right,

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Speaker 3: so they couldn't reach me at any time those types

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Speaker 3: of things before computers, very few people had computers that

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Speaker 3: are very expensive. I convinced my parents to allow me

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Speaker 3: to drive from DC to Texas and back, and I

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Speaker 3: interviewed it every TV station along the way, and back

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Speaker 3: in the day there was ABCNBC, CBS, and maybe a

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Speaker 3: few Foxes here and there. And I drove from DC

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Speaker 3: to Alpaso, Texas and back, multiple stories in that, of course,

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Speaker 3: but without a cell phone, without a computer. I had

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Speaker 3: a little brotherword processor writing thank you notes as I

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Speaker 3: was traveling and making phone calls trying to get meetings

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Speaker 3: the day before every time I would move locations, and

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Speaker 3: I came home with no job and so, but I

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Speaker 3: also came home to an answering machine message from a

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Speaker 3: news director that I had sent a tape to and

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Speaker 3: he was in Medford, Oregon, and he said he'd like

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Speaker 3: to talk to me about an associate producer job. And

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Speaker 3: so I moved then from DC to Oregon for my

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Speaker 3: first job. But you know the thing about that is

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Speaker 3: you can't do that today, Like nobody's gonna let you

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Speaker 3: in the door right at these companies. If you went

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Speaker 3: and drove around and started dropping off resumes. Nobody wants

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Speaker 3: to see a paper resume. They want you to apply

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Speaker 3: through the applicant tracking system. But the concept of networking

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Speaker 3: still exists today. The concept of meeting people, the concept

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Speaker 3: of getting out of your house right, the concept the

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Speaker 3: concept of reaching out to people and trying to get

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Speaker 3: meet and greets and not asking for a job, but

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Speaker 3: getting them to know you and asking where you can

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Speaker 3: fill a gap? Right or is there anything you can

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Speaker 3: do for them? Like that still exists. It's different today,

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Speaker 3: but but it does exist. And I think you need

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Speaker 3: to have that tenacity, and you need to have that curiosity,

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Speaker 3: and you need to have that gumption, like you said,

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Speaker 3: to figure out what is the strategy that's not working

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Speaker 3: and how to find the strategy that will.

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Speaker 2: You had a job as a producer, I think you said,

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Speaker 2: an entertainment attorney, like from what I understand, like you

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Speaker 2: were interviewing applicants to like the real world like shows

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Speaker 2: on the TV or chopped things like that. Talk about

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Speaker 2: this variety of careers that you had. I think there's

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Speaker 2: a part of me that's encouraged because I feel like

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Speaker 2: the all the jobs I've had, they've been go through

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Speaker 2: line like related to each other. It's been quite the range,

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Speaker 2: but I'm curious to hear you speak to that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there is a through line, like when you think

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Speaker 3: about it. First of all, there's no job you'll ever

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Speaker 3: have in your life that you don't gain skills from.

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Speaker 3: You will always gain skills. I don't care if you're

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Speaker 3: flipping burgers, you will gain skills. And so for me,

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Speaker 3: I started as a TV news reporter. I started as

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Speaker 3: an associate producer. I was producing medical reports that a

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Speaker 3: local doctor would voice. Then I became a reporter, which

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Speaker 3: is what I wanted to do, and then I decided,

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Speaker 3: you know, you heard what happened. I got fired, and

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Speaker 3: so I was like, all right, I want to get

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Speaker 3: out of this, Like, I don't want to do this,

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Speaker 3: and I definitely don't want to be in a situation

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Speaker 3: again where I'm on my own trying to figure out

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Speaker 3: what to do when I get fired. So I decided

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Speaker 3: I was going to go to law school at night.

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Speaker 3: I always had an interest in it, and so I

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Speaker 3: worked at a TV news station in Oklahoma City, and

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Speaker 3: I basically worked from eight to five. I was on

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Speaker 3: the four and five o'clock news doing a consumer report

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Speaker 3: and then I would go to law school from six

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Speaker 3: to nine at night, and then I would meet the

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Speaker 3: live truck at ten o'clock for a live shot on

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Speaker 3: an investigative report. And I did this for three and

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Speaker 3: a half years and graduated, and then I moved to

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Speaker 3: la to be a screenwriter. You can see how that

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Speaker 3: turned out, although right now I do have a little

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Speaker 3: script floating around Hollywood still. But that didn't so work out,

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Speaker 3: but sometimes things happened. Twenty years later and then I

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Speaker 3: got a job working in what's called reality diligence, So

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Speaker 3: you're doing background check, psych and medical on all the

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Speaker 3: reality show participants. And I worked on I worked on

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Speaker 3: all of the shows that you can imagine, so NBC

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Speaker 3: and then viacom So at NBC, I worked on The Apprentice,

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Speaker 3: and I worked on Real Housewives when it was just

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Speaker 3: starting with Teresa Goodize and all these people. And then

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Speaker 3: from there, you know, I did that for twelve years,

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Speaker 3: and it's amazing to talk about at cocktail parties. But

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Speaker 3: after twelve years, I had had enough. I was exhausted,

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Speaker 3: right so, cause remember you're dealing with people that are

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Speaker 3: that are sane but barely in some in some cases,

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Speaker 3: in some cases right, very colorful backgrounds, and so so

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Speaker 3: then I decided I had no idea what I wanted

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Speaker 3: to do. I was completely lost, and so I started

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Speaker 3: trying to figure out what I could do with my skills,

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Speaker 3: and that was the wrong approach. And what I was

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Speaker 3: looking for was how do I just get fulfilled?

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Speaker 4: Like, how do I just be happy?

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Speaker 3: How do I find the thing? And the wrong approach

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Speaker 3: is what can I do with what I've done. That's

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Speaker 3: the wrong approach because then you're only looking at things

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Speaker 3: that you have skills for, and I wasn't looking at

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Speaker 3: things that would actually fulfill me. And I worked with

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Speaker 3: a career coach, interestingly enough briefly, and he said, you

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Speaker 3: know what lights you on fire, what gets you excited,

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Speaker 3: what gets you out of bed in the morning. And

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Speaker 3: I came up with a list of things, and from

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Speaker 3: there I was able to figure out that I wanted

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Speaker 3: to be in HR now, and that comes from wanting

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Speaker 3: to help people and wanting to, you know, explain why

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Speaker 3: this was the wrong move. But it's about, you know,

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Speaker 3: I wanted to help people and I wanted to, you know,

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Speaker 3: help people succeed in their lives and things like that,

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Speaker 3: and I realized I went to get certified and coaching

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Speaker 3: because every job description that I saw that resonated with

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Speaker 3: me had the word coaching it a thousand times. I

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Speaker 3: loved the coaching courses, loved it. It took a year,

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Speaker 3: year and a half to get certified, and I absolutely

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Speaker 3: loved it. And then I moved to Roku, which was

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Speaker 3: my first HR job. But HR was it was a startup,

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Speaker 3: like it was four hundred people. So HR was all

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Speaker 3: about coaching the C suite. So I coached the head

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Speaker 3: of players, the head of advertise advertising, the CFO, CMO,

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Speaker 3: and general counsel. And that's all I did all day

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Speaker 3: is I just coached them and their teams all day long.

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Speaker 3: I loved it. I loved the job. I loved everything

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Speaker 3: about it. I did ORG design and change management and

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Speaker 3: I loved it. Well. Then I decided, well, you know,

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Speaker 3: they don't really have an HR department, so they don't

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Speaker 3: really do the other HR things like performance management or

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Speaker 3: learning and development or all those things. I said, God,

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Speaker 3: I really need to think about, like how am I

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Speaker 3: going to get the rest of the HR experience. So

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Speaker 3: I moved to Intuitive Surgical, which is a medical technology company,

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Speaker 3: A phenomenal company. But I realized one thing very quickly.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't coaching as much. I was still coaching at

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Speaker 3: the c suite level and whatnot, but I was doing

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Speaker 3: all these other things in HR.

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Speaker 4: And I don't love that stuff. And you know, HR

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Speaker 4: is not really.

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Speaker 3: About helping people. It's about aligning people's skills and capabilities

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Speaker 3: to the company goals. That's what the job is. I

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Speaker 3: get that, but I was always I always like to

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Speaker 3: help people. And when you're coaching somebody, whether it's how

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Speaker 3: to give hard feedback or you know, how to do

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Speaker 3: an org design or things like that, you're actually coaching.

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Speaker 3: You are helping it away, you are helping the company.

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Speaker 3: You're still doing the goal of HR, which is aligning

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Speaker 3: those capabilities. But when you're doing other things in HR,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't feel like you're really helping as much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, nice. Yeah, So it all came back to

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Speaker 2: helping folks on an individual level. But can we like,

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Speaker 2: I guess to zoom out for a quick second, because

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Speaker 2: we've and I kind of mentioned this in the intro,

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Speaker 2: but we've had an incredible run of really low unemployment

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Speaker 2: in the country. Yeah, but that era, it looks like

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Speaker 2: it might be coming to an ad over. Yeah, as

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Speaker 2: a career coach, like I would love to hear your

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Speaker 2: take your current assessment of the overall labor market.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, when I left Intuitive, it is because

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Speaker 3: they were calling people back to the office and we

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Speaker 3: had moved states, and so I was petrified right afterwards

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Speaker 3: to answer your question, like I thought, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: I got to find another job, but this market is horrible.

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Speaker 3: How am I going to find another job? And I realized,

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Speaker 3: you know, I had a side coaching business for ten years,

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Speaker 3: so I just went out on my own and it's

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Speaker 3: been great. But this market is the probably the worst

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Speaker 3: market I've seen in a very long time, probably since

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Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, but it has lasted longer. This

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Speaker 3: has actually been going on for well over a year.

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Speaker 3: This didn't just start in January.

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Speaker 1: Which is a big whiplash, a big change from what

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Speaker 1: we were experiencing just a few short years ago.

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Speaker 3: It is absolutely and I saw this in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and eight, you know, I was coaching back then as

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Speaker 3: well and again now.

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Speaker 4: But this is worse.

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Speaker 3: It is actually a lot worse because I think in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, you know, we saw all the

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Speaker 3: layoffs happen, you know, with the market crash, and it

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Speaker 3: lasted until about twenty ten. This has already been going

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Speaker 3: on for over two years easily, and so and we've

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Speaker 3: got at least another year or so of this, if

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Speaker 3: not longer, depending upon you know, how the government sways, shall.

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Speaker 4: We say, But it's rough, it's very rough.

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Speaker 3: And I and I tell my clients that I'm like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I can help you get prepared to get

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Speaker 3: a job. I can do everything in my power to

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Speaker 3: make sure you are capable of getting a job. I

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Speaker 3: can't get you a job. And I've said that, you

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Speaker 3: know for the last over a decade or twenty years

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Speaker 3: that I've been doing this, And I never promise getting

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Speaker 3: them job because I'm not in the interviews right I

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Speaker 3: can't whisper in their ear as they're answering the question.

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Speaker 3: But they will be one hundred percent prepared to answer

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Speaker 3: the questions. And so and right now, you know, people

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Speaker 3: need to they need to take a breath, you know,

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Speaker 3: they need to take a breath, and they need to

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Speaker 3: just understand that it's going to take longer if they're

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Speaker 3: looking for a new job, it's going to take longer.

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Speaker 3: But they are capable of getting one. There are jobs

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Speaker 3: out there. It's not like there are no jobs out

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Speaker 3: there at all.

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Speaker 1: You're making me think of the real estate market for

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Speaker 1: some reason, and how like a real turk can help

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Speaker 1: you price it and they can help you talk about

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Speaker 1: curb appeal and get the house ready, but they don't

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Speaker 1: have control over what's happening in the overall market.

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Speaker 2: Is it a buyer's market? Is a seller's market?

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Speaker 1: Like? How long our listings hang out typically? And we

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Speaker 1: can make sure you're on the shorter end of that

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Speaker 1: if we do this, this, this, and this, but there's

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Speaker 1: still no guarantee.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you're not a personal finance expert, but

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Speaker 1: you are a career coach. What are the common money

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Speaker 1: concerns that you hear from clients? You talk to people,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure often yeah, post layoff, what.

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Speaker 2: Are they feeling?

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Speaker 1: Are they like, got to get that new job stat

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Speaker 1: because I don't have any cash on hand?

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Speaker 2: Are what's going through people's minds?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, people are, of course super concerned. Some people get

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Speaker 3: exit packages, some people don't, right, some people just get

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Speaker 3: laid off and they get one week severance if nothing.

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Speaker 3: There is no law in this country that says you

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Speaker 3: deserve a severance or you will receive a severance.

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Speaker 4: So know that if you.

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Speaker 3: Are employed right now and you're happy in your job,

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Speaker 3: just know that there is no law that says you're

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Speaker 3: going to get anything now. There might be company policies,

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Speaker 3: but those can change on a whim. So you got

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Speaker 3: to keep that in mind because I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of people are concerned of how long it's going to take.

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Speaker 3: They're concerned will their money last. And unemployment in the

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Speaker 3: United States, as you know, does not pay much of anything.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it'll pay for your gas that week, or maybe

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Speaker 3: they won't afford eggs these days, so but it won't

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Speaker 3: pay for much. And so I think they're just kind

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Speaker 3: of wondering, do I have to sell my four O

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Speaker 3: one K? Do I have to you know, sell other things?

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Speaker 3: Do I have to sell my house? I've heard that.

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Speaker 3: And then one of the biggest concerns is can I

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Speaker 3: get the same amount of money I got before? Because

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Speaker 3: That's what I've been living at. And I will tell

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Speaker 3: you that the prices are coming down, like the salaries

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Speaker 3: are coming down a lot, so like twenty thirty forty thousand.

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Speaker 4: Dollars, So what you were paid before, you.

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Speaker 3: May not be paid for the same job now. And

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Speaker 3: also you have to consider like level, like a director

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Speaker 3: in tech might make the same thing that a VP

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Speaker 3: makes an entertainment right, you have to consider both the

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Speaker 3: industry and also the level that you're going in at,

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Speaker 3: and whether it's a startup or it's an established company.

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Speaker 3: So all of those things matter. And I think they're

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Speaker 3: just really concerned will I make the same amount? And

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Speaker 3: the chances are you might not. So if that's your

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Speaker 3: only itteria, you're going to have to open your mind

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Speaker 3: a little bit more to other things and not look

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Speaker 3: at it as a step back, but as a market shift.

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Speaker 2: You said a yeah, you got to open your mind. Earlier,

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Speaker 2: you said that you want folks to breathe or to

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Speaker 2: take a breath. Yeah, are you a fan of folks

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Speaker 2: taking us a sabbatical. We've We've talked with someone not

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Speaker 2: too long ago about using a layoff as a potential

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Speaker 2: time to reflect. And this is what I mean. It

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Speaker 2: seems like this is the core of what you're saying,

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Speaker 2: to figure out what is going to get you up

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Speaker 2: in the morning to find that fulfilling work. But do

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Speaker 2: you think sometimes that leads to a longer maybe even

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Speaker 2: an intentional longer period of time where they're not working.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it leads to a I mean it

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Speaker 3: depends how long your sabbatical is, right, whether it's going

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Speaker 3: to lead to a longer time not working. I think

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Speaker 3: that a sabbatical is a great idea. And here's why.

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Speaker 3: You need to process.

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Speaker 4: Your emotions right.

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Speaker 3: You have to sit in it, and whether you're mad

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Speaker 3: or you're relieved, or whatever comes to you, you have

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Speaker 3: to process it. And you have to allow yourself that

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Speaker 3: time to reconfigure your mindset.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is you have to

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Speaker 3: understand that you have capabilities, You are smart, You can

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Speaker 3: change jobs, you can change careers. Being laid off is

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Speaker 3: not a reflection of your skill set.

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Speaker 4: It's not.

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Speaker 3: It is a reflection of the former company's lack of

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Speaker 3: proper planning during this turbulent economy, and so or it

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Speaker 3: could also be a change in business strategy. The point

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Speaker 3: is like, if you take a sabbatical and you just

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Speaker 3: pause and stop and be off that treadmill for a minute,

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Speaker 3: you might actually be able to figure out what you

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Speaker 3: want to do versus what you can do. And that's

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Speaker 3: what I do with my clients, as I always ask

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Speaker 3: them in my very first meeting with them, I'll say,

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Speaker 3: what do you want to do? And every single one

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Speaker 3: of them either looks at me with a like a

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Speaker 3: deer in headlights or they say, gosh, nobody's ever asked

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Speaker 3: me that before. Can you imagine everybody's trying to figure

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Speaker 3: out what they can do. You got to figure out

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Speaker 3: what you want to do. The want is where you

437
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,160
Speaker 3: find fulfillment. It's not the can. Because I can't tell

438
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 3: you how many executives I work with that are in

439
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 3: their thirties, forties, and fifties and they've been tapped on

440
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 3: the shoulder their entire career saying, hey, you'd be great

441
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,639
Speaker 3: for this job. Here's more money, and here's a higher title.

442
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 3: Cool yay, And they are miserable. Yeah, because yes, their

443
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,680
Speaker 3: skills and capabilities aligned with the goals of the company,

444
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 3: but they never aligned that with what they want, and

445
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 3: without that, they're not happy.

446
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: I mean that totally makes sense, and I think, yeah,

447
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: we see a lot of people in corporate America finding

448
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 1: themselves in that position, and sometimes the layoff is it

449
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like it in that moment, Just like when

450
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 1: you got fired from your job. It didn't feel like

451
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,199
Speaker 1: in the moment, hey, this is probably the best thing

452
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 1: for me. But ultimately, and from what I've seen with

453
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people around me, when they've gotten laid off,

454
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 1: it has led to maybe a reset that has allowed

455
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,399
Speaker 1: them to pursue something that does light them up a

456
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 1: bit more. One of the let's talk strategies in particular,

457
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 1: one of the things you tell people is you want

458
00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 1: them to start writing down their accomplishment post layoff before

459
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 1: for too much time passes.

460
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 2: Why is that? What's that about?

461
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, they should write it in free form, right, just

462
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 3: write it down what they accomplished, what they were successful at,

463
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 3: what they feel they did great. And they should do

464
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 3: it in the star method, or at least do free

465
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,639
Speaker 3: form first and then put it in the Start method.

466
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 3: I call it the start method with the t that

467
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 3: situation task achould result take away because the takeaways are

468
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 3: what you learned from that experience, right, and how it

469
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 3: connects when you're looking for other jobs, how it connects

470
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,199
Speaker 3: to those jobs. And you want to include hard and

471
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 3: soft skills. And the reason you do that is it

472
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 3: helps you not only reflect on how great you are,

473
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,400
Speaker 3: right and what goods you did and what you can

474
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 3: do like capable. Yeah, it's an emotional booth. You're capable,

475
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 3: you're successful, like you can bring value to a company.

476
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 3: You're also going to need that, and you're going to

477
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,479
Speaker 3: need it when you are revamping your resume and you know,

478
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 3: considering what you want to do, and when you're writing

479
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 3: down your accomplishments. By the way, maybe put a little

480
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 3: extra star next to the ones that really lit you

481
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 3: on fire, because you might have an accomplishment that ugh,

482
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 3: yeah I got through that, thank god, and it was

483
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 3: a big deal for the company.

484
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 4: Oh but yuck.

485
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 3: You know, that's not something you necessarily want to pursue.

486
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 3: But if there's something that let you on fire and

487
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 3: you love something about it, then maybe put a little

488
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 3: asterisk next to it, because that'll help you focus on

489
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 3: what you want.

490
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 2: Very cool, and yeah, maybe you should be focusing more

491
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 2: on those projects that even your former employer may not

492
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 2: have valued all that much. But if it gets you excited,

493
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 2: I could see how that could lead to additional opportunities

494
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 2: that you're pretty pumped to pursue. But yeah, you're talking

495
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 2: about documenting these accomplishments, you're essentially taking stock of what

496
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 2: you've done. Beyond that, though, is job hunting, and marlow

497
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 2: We've got a lot more questions to get to about

498
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 2: job hunting. We'll get to that right after this.

499
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 1: Our we're back from the break where so we'll talking

500
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,479
Speaker 1: with Marlowe Lyons talking about what to do after getting

501
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 1: laid off and Marlo, Yeah, you talked about we talked

502
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: about some of the financial difficulties that people face and

503
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: hopefully you have some sort of financial runway, whether it's

504
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: from your former employer or whether it's from money you've

505
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: saved up and ideally for our listeners who want them

506
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: to have both. Right, but let's talk about job hunting afterwards,

507
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 1: and taking a minute to breathe, taking some of that

508
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: emotional stock makes sense. But then when it comes down

509
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: to it and when you're ready to start looking for work,

510
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: is is this something that you take forty hours a

511
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: week to do like you did at your old job

512
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: or or even more, I mean, are we like full

513
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: time going after it, foaming at the mouth job hunting

514
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: or are you taking a more lax approach?

515
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely not, absolutely not. This is not a forty hour

516
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 3: week job. You are not chained to your desk. You

517
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 3: are not chained to your computer. And I think that's

518
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 3: super important. I'm glad you brought that up because a

519
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 3: lot of people feel like I'm if I don't put

520
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 3: in all the effort, if I don't work hard, I'm

521
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 3: not going to get a job that has nothing to

522
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 3: do with it. So no, not forty hours a week.

523
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 3: What you should do is you should number one, know

524
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 3: what you want to do. You cannot create a LinkedIn

525
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 3: profile or a resume if you don't know what you

526
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 3: want to do, because then your resume is too generic

527
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 3: and nobody's going to understand how to connect the dots

528
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 3: to what you want to do. So you have to

529
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 3: know what you want to do. Then I would sit down,

530
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 3: I would define your target roles and your companies that

531
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 3: you're interested in. Of course, look at other companies as well.

532
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 3: Never just limited to that. I would set yourself some

533
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 3: daily and weekly goals. And what that does for you

534
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 3: is that prevents procrastination. Right, Like, we could all sit

535
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 3: here and scroll for hours, especially if we're not feeling

536
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 3: good today, or if we're you know, kind of depressed

537
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 3: or sad, or we're stressed or scared. But this will

538
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 3: prevent your procrastination. I'll help you feel accomplished at the

539
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 3: end of the week if you set a weekly goal

540
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 3: and a daily goal of what you want to do,

541
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 3: and those need to be goals that you can control.

542
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 3: This is critical. You cannot control if you're going to

543
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 3: get a job. You can control if somebody looks at

544
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 3: your You can control if you apply to jobs right.

545
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 3: You can't control if somebody's going to hire you, or

546
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 3: if you're the finalist. If you're a finalist and three

547
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 3: other people are finalists, you don't control that. You don't

548
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 3: control who's going to get the offer.

549
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 4: You can only.

550
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: Control what you control. So you should set goals about

551
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 3: I'm going to apply to ten jobs. If there are

552
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: ten jobs to apply for, I'm going to reach out

553
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 3: to two or three people a week and try to

554
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 3: get meet and greets at companies that I want to

555
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 3: work for. Here's another one that I think people forget.

556
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 3: You need, and I mean need to be posting on LinkedIn.

557
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 3: And what do I mean by that? I mean you

558
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 3: absolutely must be posting either thought leadership if you're an

559
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 3: executive in your field of which you want to work,

560
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 3: or commenting on other people's posts. You can also forward

561
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 3: their posts and comment. You can also write articles, you

562
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 3: can write newsletters, You can do all sorts of things.

563
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 3: But you must be posting on LinkedIn. And here is

564
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 3: why the algorithm on LinkedIn. The more you post, the

565
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 3: more visible you're going to be. You need people to

566
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: see you as a thought leader and as somebody that

567
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 3: they're like, oh, I want to work with that guy

568
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 3: or I want to work with that girl. And the

569
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: more that you post, the more that somebody out there

570
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 3: will see it.

571
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 4: Now, do not.

572
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: Post that you hate AI and it's taking your job

573
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 3: and you know and that how can people not want

574
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 3: to work with real people?

575
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 4: And you know I got laid off?

576
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 2: Can right?

577
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 4: Can somebody help me? And the reason?

578
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 3: And again you can say I need help, right, Hey, network,

579
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 3: I need help, right, But you got to tell people

580
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: what you want. I want a job in this state.

581
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 3: I'm willing to work remotely, I am willing to go

582
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 3: into the office. I am looking for these titles. I

583
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 3: am open to any industry. You've got to say what

584
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 3: you want. You can't just ask for help because people

585
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 3: don't know how to help you.

586
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 4: So and try to keep the.

587
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 3: Negativity to a minimum because that is a reflection on

588
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: you and when things change, as they chase the office

589
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 3: all the time, are you going to be the resistor

590
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 3: to that change. That's how it seems. So you need

591
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 3: to do that. And then two more things, and this

592
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 3: is really important. It goes back to that forty hours

593
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 3: a week thing. You must leave your home. You must

594
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 3: go out, Go have a coffee, go for a walk,

595
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 3: take your computer with you. You will beat people if

596
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 3: you go to a Starbucks. And I know you can

597
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 3: only sit there for so long these days, but go

598
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,719
Speaker 3: to a Starbucks. Somebody else will be there with a computer.

599
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 3: Ask them who they are. Get curious about them. They

600
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: may be working, or maybe they're maybe they're visiting from

601
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 3: out of town, whatever the case may be. They may

602
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 3: know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who can

603
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 3: help you. So you have to get out of your house.

604
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: Go to every possible networking event, every possible thing that

605
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 3: is not a networking event, meaning your friend is having

606
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 3: people over. Don't say you don't feel like going. You

607
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: never know who you're going to meet there.

608
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: To get off the couch, gott your couch.

609
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 4: Get yeah.

610
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 3: It's just like it's kind of like dating, right, Like

611
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 3: you're not nobody's gonna come knocking on your door, are right.

612
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 3: You got to get out there and so and then finally,

613
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 3: I always tell my clients you have to take care

614
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 3: of yourself. If you like to exercise, go exercise. You

615
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 3: need to do what gives you energy and makes you

616
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 3: feel good, because this is going to be This could

617
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 3: take a while, you know, depending upon your network and

618
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 3: depending upon what jobs are out there. The higher you go,

619
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 3: the less jobs there are. Right, there's only one CFO,

620
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 3: there's only one CMO, right. Even vps there aren't as

621
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 3: many vps as there are directors in lower So you

622
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 3: have to get out there and just take care of

623
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 3: yourself and do the thing that gives you energy and

624
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 3: makes you feel good. It doesn't have to cost money, right,

625
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 3: it could be a walk. It's beautiful out right now

626
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 3: in most of the country.

627
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: So it is is fascinating. I mean, going back to

628
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 2: one of the things you're saying is to know what

629
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 2: it is that you want. But I think there could

630
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 2: be a lot of folks out there who have no

631
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: idea what it is that they're looking for. And to

632
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: that point, I've heard you mention that you are all

633
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: about folks looking for interesting jobs, but not actually applying yet.

634
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: It's almost like this stage of exploration where you're almost

635
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: trying to like see what it is that exists that

636
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: you didn't even know exists, that's out there, and so

637
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: what is what does that even look like? Aside from

638
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: getting off the couch, leaving your home, taking care of yourself,

639
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: like going back to the like the digital world. Yes,

640
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: there is real life networking that can take place by

641
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: leaving home. But does this mean like perusing the job

642
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: boards online just to see kind of what what strikes

643
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: your fancy?

644
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 3: No, not really, because I think you'd get lost in that.

645
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 3: Then you can you find you wind up falling back

646
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: into that. Oh I can do that. Oh I can

647
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 3: do that. Oh I can do that. Remember you hear

648
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 3: the word can all? I can all the cans?

649
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 4: Right?

650
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 3: So, actually I tell people, don't look at the job

651
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 3: boards and actually go back to what's what excites you,

652
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 3: what gives you energy? What to pleate you, what to

653
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 3: what to plete your energy? And those are your values,

654
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 3: right is? Identify those things and then translate them into values, right,

655
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: and what do those values meet? So let me give

656
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 3: you give me an example here, tell me what, tell

657
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 3: me something that excites you in your life.

658
00:29:54,880 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: Matt is physical fitness buff Okay, personal finance. I mean literally,

659
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: So we're not looking for jobs because we love what

660
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: it is that we do. Yeah, I'm going to give

661
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: you the nerdy response.

662
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 3: Okay, so finance, so you love Okay, so you love finance.

663
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 3: What about finance do you like?

664
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: We like talking about it, we like having a take,

665
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: we like helping people, and so that service helping people.

666
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 2: Our audience stands out. Yeah, right, like anytime you're you know,

667
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you see this too, being a coach,

668
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: being able to connect with folks and seeing their life improved.

669
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 2: It's what I said.

670
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 3: You love finance, you love to talk about it, you

671
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 3: love helping people, you love service service, you know, helping

672
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 3: other people, and you like connecting with people.

673
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 4: Those are all values, right.

674
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: So then I would dig inteach one of those and

675
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 3: I'd say, well, you like to talk, you like to

676
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 3: help people. What does that mean for you?

677
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: Right?

678
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 3: And we dig in deep on that and I'd say, okay,

679
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 3: you like to service people, what does that mean for

680
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,239
Speaker 3: you? You like to connect with other people? What does that

681
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 3: mean for you? And you dig into that, you did

682
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: deeper and deeper and deeper, and you come up with

683
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 3: what it means, what does finance truly mean to you?

684
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,959
Speaker 3: And then from there you can look for jobs at

685
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: align with that value of finance, because some people like,

686
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: for me, I don't love finance. I do the bills

687
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: and our family, and I can tell you there's nothing

688
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 3: I hate more when the bills come in and I

689
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 3: have to pay them and then log them, right, so

690
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: and finance stresses me out quite frankly, And so I

691
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 3: don't love finance. So you know, for me, if I'm

692
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: a person who I say, oh, well, you know, I

693
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 3: love finance because I like having money. I like having money,

694
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 3: and I like going on vacation, that's a very different value.

695
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 3: Then I like servicing people and helping people and connecting

696
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: with folks to improve their lives. Right, So it's the

697
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: same it's the same word, but it's a different value.

698
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: So you have to understand. And neither of them are wrong.

699
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 3: There's no wrong here or right. So you have to

700
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 3: decide what does that value mean to me, and then

701
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 3: you look for jobs that align with that value with

702
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 3: the values that you have. Now AI is great for

703
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 3: this for those who can't afford personal coaching, they can

704
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 3: use AI and just say okay, I love finance because

705
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 3: it means helping people and connecting with other people to

706
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 3: help them improve their lives. What value aligns with that?

707
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,239
Speaker 3: And if you type that into AI, you will get

708
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 3: a list of values. Then you look at the one

709
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 3: that resonates the most, and that's what the value is.

710
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: What we talked about all those CAN jobs, You're like, ah,

711
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: maybe I should apply for it because I can do that. Well,

712
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: what are the common excuses that you hear from people

713
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: you're coaching?

714
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: You know?

715
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: And then what do you say to them when they say, well,

716
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: I can't get that job? Almost the opposite of the

717
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: CAN jobs. It's like, well that sounds so awesome, but

718
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: I don't have the resume to get that thing that

719
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: I want. What's your responsor?

720
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 4: Yeah?

721
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 3: So, too often people build resumes based on what they've done.

722
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 3: In fact, ninety probably ninety five percent of people build

723
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 3: their resume based on what they've.

724
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: Done, which sounds intuitive.

725
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 3: It does sound intuitive, and it's obvious, right, like, Hey,

726
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 3: I worked at this company and here's what I did,

727
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 3: and here are the accomplishments I did. Here's the problem.

728
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 3: It's not a forward looking resume, meaning it doesn't align

729
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 3: with the job that you want. It is everything you've

730
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 3: ever done. And if you've worked in multiple different types

731
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 3: of jobs, then there's no through line, which we talked

732
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 3: about earlier. You need the through line, right, So, if

733
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 3: I decide that I want to work in a specific field,

734
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 3: everything under each job has to relate to that specific

735
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 3: field or that specific job. And if I just have

736
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 3: a list of things that I've done, not everything under

737
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 3: there is going to relate. So here's an example. When

738
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: I worked at Viacom, I was so proud.

739
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 4: Of the fact that I got.

740
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 3: A I got language in the Gang of Eight immigration

741
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 3: bill on how reality participants could appear on camera in

742
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 3: shows that were not competitions without having to have a

743
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 3: visa because right now they need a visa if they're

744
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 3: not in a competition show. And I was so proud

745
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: of myself. I lobbied and I went to Washington like

746
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 3: it was the coolest thing ever. Right, had nothing to

747
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: do with my day job, but it.

748
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: Was so cool.

749
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 3: It has absolutely nothing to do with HR nothing. So

750
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 3: it's not on my resume anywhere because it has nothing

751
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 3: to do with it, even though it was one of

752
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: my coolest accomplishments ever.

753
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 2: Now a lobbyist, you'd stick.

754
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 3: Out gay absolutely and the build didn't pass or anything.

755
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 3: But you know, that's the point, Like, it's not what

756
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: you've done, it's what you've done that's relevant, and what

757
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 3: you've done that's relevant if you're especially if you're transitioning careers,

758
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 3: may only be one percent of what you've ever done,

759
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: but that's all that's relevant. And that's how my clients

760
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 3: move from one career to another. I'll give you an example,

761
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 3: and I hope he's okay with this. But worked with

762
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 3: a performer on a main stage in ballet and retired,

763
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 3: you know, in their mid to late thirties, and worked

764
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 3: a little bit as a technical director and wanted something more.

765
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 3: Now they work in digital account management or somewhere in

766
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 3: the account management space. And so right, the massive swings,

767
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 3: massive swings, right, or a twelfth grade English teacher that

768
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 3: now works in a major MA, your major household name

769
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 3: tech company in program management, right, because you're pulling out

770
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 3: that one percent, that one percent that they have experience

771
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 3: in that space, and your whole resume is filled with that.

772
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 3: And then on top of that, your interview is not

773
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 3: about all those other things. It is about the one percent.

774
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 3: When you're talking about and giving stories.

775
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 2: I'm writing so much that you're saying down like you

776
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: are giving such great takeaways, Like we're talking about this too,

777
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 2: I guess earlier we're talking about it from someone who's

778
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: getting fired. But what you're speaking to now is even

779
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 2: if you've got somebody I think who doesn't even necessarily

780
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 2: feel fulfilled at the work that they're doing. I think

781
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 2: there's a lot of listeners who might feel stuck, yeah,

782
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 2: in a career because they've made a lot of progress

783
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: up that specific ladder. Their earnings are great. But what

784
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 2: have you found that snaps your clients to the ultimate reality? Like,

785
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 2: is it basically face Is it causing them to face

786
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 2: their mortality? Is it? I mean, like, what is it

787
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 2: that helps folks to have the gumption to have the

788
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: kind of tenacity to say no to the thing that

789
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 2: they feel like that they're sort of handcuffed to.

790
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's courage, man. It takes courage to put away

791
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 3: and say thank you career for the last twenty years,

792
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 3: I'm going to go do something different. And it takes

793
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 3: it's hard work. I tell every client how hard this

794
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 3: work is going to be it's going to be the

795
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 3: hardest work they've ever done, because they're looking inside themselves, right,

796
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 3: and you're evaluating yourself and you're thinking about what do

797
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 3: I want? And that's a really hard question to answer,

798
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 3: but we always get to that answer. And so I

799
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 3: think for people that are stuck in a job, what

800
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 3: I can say to you is that you're never stuck.

801
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 3: You really aren't. What you are is someone who doesn't

802
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 3: have the courage at the moment to take that leap

803
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 3: of digging into yourself and figuring out what you want.

804
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 3: And I think that, you know, people use the word

805
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 3: stuck or they're so busy, or they're you know, and

806
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: I say busy like work, right, or busy in life,

807
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 3: and they stay on this treadmill because guess what, it

808
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 3: keeps them from having to actually do that hard work.

809
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 4: It's it's a cafe.

810
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 2: It's reliable.

811
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 3: It's the devil, you know. You know, you're you're at

812
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 3: the at the office. You already know how bad it is.

813
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 3: It's the devil, you know, And I'll just stay in

814
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 3: this or oh, I'm close to retirement, or oh i'm

815
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 3: you know, I have three kids, or oh my health

816
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 3: isn't great this week or this month, or I'm pregnant. Oh,

817
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: I'm I can't even begin to tell you how many

818
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 3: people reach out and say but you know, they say,

819
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: I'm reaching out to you because I really want to

820
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 3: make a change. Butt, And the butt is never a butt.

821
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 3: It's never a real butt.

822
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 2: They're leaving that back door open just because because they're like, hey,

823
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: I kind of want to talk about this, but really

824
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 2: I don't like, like, yeah, they're choosing not to.

825
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 4: Choosing it's a choice. Yeah, it's a choice.

826
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: On that note, like, I feel like if you get

827
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: laid off, that is when the conversation is inevitable, like, yes,

828
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: you gotta find something else.

829
00:37:58,080 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 4: Push, Yes, it's your push.

830
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: For a lot of people, it is that push. And

831
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: I've seen, like I said, so many people go from

832
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: something that they kind of enjoyed or didn't really like

833
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: to something that they love, largely because they were pushed

834
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: out of the security of the job they had.

835
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 2: But what would you.

836
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: Say to folks, especially like we talked out at the

837
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: beginning of this episode about how the job market it's

838
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: not as great as it was a few years ago.

839
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: What if you're not loving your job these days, Are

840
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: there good reasons to leave even in an economic downturn,

841
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: and how should people think about job hopping.

842
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: I would not leave unless you are independently wealthy or

843
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 3: have a lot of money put away that you can live.

844
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 2: Or you've got the job offer from someone else, you have.

845
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 3: A job offer from somewhere else, exactly. I would not

846
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 3: leave your current job until you have a new job.

847
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 3: I would, and I wouldn't do that because the market

848
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 3: is so tight and you don't know how long that's

849
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 3: going to take, and less, like I said, you have

850
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 3: the means to do that, then great. I also would

851
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 3: not recommend right now that you try to transition careers.

852
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 3: I think that there are you know, multiple people who

853
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 3: are overqualified or qualified for every single job. They don't

854
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 3: need to hire you who wants to transition careers. It's

855
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: not like there's a deficit out there and they need

856
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: to find somebody. So I wouldn't highly recommend trying to

857
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 3: transition careers unless it's really close to what you're doing

858
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 3: but a little bit different. So I wouldn't recommend that necessarily.

859
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 3: But I do have people who are doing it right now,

860
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: you know, and are working with me, and they are

861
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 3: getting interviews and it's you know again, it's all positioning.

862
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 3: So you know, I wouldn't recommend leaving a job. But

863
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 3: at the same time, I also think life is too

864
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 3: short to sit in a job that you absolutely hate.

865
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: And I don't think that you can compartmentalize your work

866
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 3: from your life. I think they both interplay with each other.

867
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 3: And fulfillment is a holistic thing. It is not an

868
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 3: individual thing like og, well, the rest of my life

869
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 3: is great, so I'll just sit over here and be miserable.

870
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 3: It just doesn't work. And so I think you should

871
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 3: start looking and get yourself prepared and figure out what

872
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 3: you want and put your resume together that's forward looking

873
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 3: and start applying for jobs is what you should do.

874
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 3: And quite frankly, network if you're not ready to go

875
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 3: through all of that, start your networking now, And that

876
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 3: means you don't need anything right now. You're just meeting

877
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 3: people and you're getting to know them, and they're getting

878
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 3: to know you, and you're learning about their work and

879
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 3: their needs and their gaps of what they have and

880
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 3: what they're looking for, and you are thinking about it

881
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 3: from the perspective of your experience, and that's you can

882
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 3: never ever underestimate your network and the people that you've

883
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 3: built relationships with because most jobs, that's how you're getting

884
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 3: jobs these days is who you know.

885
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, the network is your backbone when it comes to

886
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: finding the next job. Or We've got a few more

887
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: questions we want to get to with you, marlow including AI.

888
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: How does that impact job hunting, both on the positive

889
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: and negative fronts. We'll get to that and more right

890
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: after this.

891
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 2: We are back from the break again speaking with marlow

892
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 2: lyons and Joela's referencing AI's The first rule of AI

893
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 2: is to not complain about it because other people it's

894
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 2: when you're posting on LinkedIn, but then eventually AI catches

895
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: on and before you know it, you get wipe from

896
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: databases left right. Who knows. I don't know how it works, Marlowe.

897
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: But but before we get to that, I want to

898
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 2: talk about landing that first job, because for younger listeners

899
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 2: or even parents of teenagers out there, you see that

900
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 2: internships are crucial and that high schoolers and college freshmen

901
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: should be partaking. Uh to not wait until you know,

902
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 2: like your junior year of college. Can you kind of

903
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: explain the current landscape of internships these days.

904
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 3: Yes, So internships are critical. That's where you gain experience,

905
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 3: but you also learn what you want and what you

906
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 3: don't want, and they are critical for trying different things.

907
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 3: That's why you're in college is to try different things

908
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 3: and figure yourself out and learn about yourself and learn

909
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 3: about what lights you on fire and what makes you excited.

910
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 3: So you want to start taking internships your freshman year.

911
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 3: I never understood this and all the power to these

912
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 3: kids out there that want to either be camp counselors

913
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 3: or want to be c i ts or whatever they

914
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 3: want to do, because they went to sleep away camp

915
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 3: their whole you know, under you know, when they were

916
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 3: in high school or uptill through high school, and now

917
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 3: they come back from college and they want to go

918
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 3: back and do that again. Unless that's what you want

919
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 3: to do for your career, you're wasting time. Quite frankly,

920
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 3: I don't mean to be rude. I think look, summer

921
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 3: is for having fun, absolutely, but you can also have

922
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 3: fun and do an internship, but you need you need

923
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 3: to get that experience on your resume because when you

924
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 3: don't have that first internship and you're a junior, you're

925
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 3: not going to get the first internship.

926
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 4: That's the problem.

927
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 3: You have nothing on your resume, and being a c

928
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 3: I T or a counselor isn't going to help you

929
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 3: if you want to work in biopharma.

930
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 2: It's just not so oh, I got yeah, you know.

931
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 2: It's so funny is that you you are describing my,

932
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 2: uh my summers as a college undergrad Marlowe, do you

933
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 2: and I don't. I'm not at all upset at you

934
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 2: for calling that because I personally agree with you. I

935
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,479
Speaker 2: think that the landscape has changed significantly from like twenty

936
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 2: years ago to graduates today and the kind of effort

937
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 2: that needs to be put forward. If you are serious

938
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 2: about a particular career, you have.

939
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 3: To put in the effort and know you have friends, right,

940
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 3: your friends have parents, your parents have friends. And then

941
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 3: there's the random application online. Okay, you need to leverage

942
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 3: all of it, all of it to get that first internship.

943
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 3: And it doesn't have to be full time if they don't,

944
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 3: or it doesn't even have to be paid. It doesn't

945
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 3: matter whether it's paid. Nobody asks you whether it was

946
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 3: paid on your resume. It's about gaining skills and experience

947
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 3: and capabilities that maybe you didn't have before, so you

948
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 3: have to do it. I mean, I just worked with

949
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 3: somebody who is in college and was looking for her

950
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 3: first internship, and it's a friend of a friend of

951
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 3: mine's daughter, and so we were working on, you know,

952
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 3: her resume, which was forward looking, right, tried to make

953
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 3: it forward looking and cleaned it up a little bit.

954
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 3: And then on top of that, and she's had great experience,

955
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 3: by the way, she had all these like things that

956
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 3: she did in high school and that kind of thing.

957
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 3: But here we are as a junior trying to get

958
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 3: this this in first, this first big internship with a corporation, right,

959
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 3: the big one that she wanted. And she had interviewed

960
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 3: an over one hundred like or applied to over one

961
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 3: hundred places and wasn't getting anywhere. And so we worked

962
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 3: on and she'd interviewed here and there, but she wasn't

963
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 3: landing the internship. So we worked on her interview skills

964
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 3: to make sure it aligned, you know, with her resume

965
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 3: and the things she needed to be talking about, and

966
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 3: just landed her very first internship in the right job,

967
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 3: like the one, the thing that she wanted, and she's,

968
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 3: you know, out of her mind excited.

969
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 4: It's about It's about.

970
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 3: Again, understanding what your narrative is, understanding the value you

971
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 3: can bring. You got to flip it. It's not about

972
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 3: what you want. It's not about I want an internship,

973
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 3: you know, or I want to come and work at

974
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 3: your company so I can put it on my resume.

975
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 3: Its about the value you can bring to that company

976
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 3: during that internship. Can you solve problems? Can you communicate effectively?

977
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 3: Can you help with you know, people who are overworked

978
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 3: and exhausted, right, take some of the work off their

979
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 3: plate and not be more of a burden while also learning.

980
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's I think that's particularly true when we're

981
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: talking about interns, because interns like they need their hands

982
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: to be helped, at least I did when I was

983
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: an intern, And so how can I be learn while

984
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 1: I was there while also you know, being of aid

985
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: to the company as well. Let's talk about AI Marlowe

986
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: because you in a recent article about getting hired in

987
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: the age of artificial intelligence. I'm curious from your perspective,

988
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: how has like the the burgeoning sector of artificial intelligence

989
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: changed the approach that job seekers need to take when

990
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: it comes to trying to find a job. Is I'm sure,

991
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: there are helpful elements and harmful ones.

992
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 3: There are lots of people are using AI to draft

993
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 3: their resume. I don't recommend that it's too generic. They're

994
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 3: popping in, you know, the job description and they're popping

995
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 3: in their resume and saying, you know, update my resume

996
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 3: and it's too generic, and it's too It's just it's

997
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 3: not crystal clear is the value you can bring to

998
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 3: the company. And honestly, there's a lot of companies now

999
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 3: that have screeners that can screen out AI generated resumes.

1000
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:29,720
Speaker 3: So I would not recommend using AI to write your resume. Now,

1001
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 3: if you're working on a bullet point on your resume

1002
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 3: and you just you know, it can be cleaner, crisper,

1003
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 3: it doesn't sound quite like what you're you know, how

1004
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 3: you want it to sound, and you pop it into

1005
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 3: you know, Chat, GBT or whatever AI program you're using,

1006
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 3: and you say, can you help me make this sound

1007
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 3: more dynamic or sound you know more uh succinct. Great,

1008
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,879
Speaker 3: go for it. Do that for the bullet point here

1009
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 3: and there that you need help with. But I wouldn't

1010
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 3: recommend it now. I would use AI though, to do

1011
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 3: two things. One, I would take the job to descriptions

1012
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 3: that you're interested in, and I would pop them into

1013
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 3: AI and say, pull out all of the keywords and

1014
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 3: all of the skills and capabilities that are needed for

1015
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 3: these jobs. That's number one I would do. The second

1016
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 3: thing I would do is say you want to be

1017
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 3: an HR. I would say, hey, AI, give me all

1018
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 3: of the keywords that are needed to be an HR

1019
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 3: business partner. Right, most of them are probably in the

1020
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 3: job descriptions anyway, but just in case you miss something,

1021
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 3: and I would make sure that all of those are

1022
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 3: in your resume somewhere.

1023
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 4: So that's how I would.

1024
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: Use Is that partly because is the keywords thing? Partly

1025
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: because when you submit a resume to a company, they're

1026
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: filtering your resume through AI in order to and so

1027
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 1: they wanted those. If those keywords are present, you're more

1028
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: likely to get that interview.

1029
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 3: Right, they are filtering your resume through an AI program

1030
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 3: that is looking for the best match.

1031
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 4: Not everybody has.

1032
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 3: The time to look through two thousand resumes, and so

1033
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 3: if you don't have the bare minimum match, it won't

1034
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 3: even be surfaced. And then also that goes years of

1035
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 3: experience as well, Like if you see something that says

1036
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 3: require seven years experience and you have six, don't apply

1037
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 3: because if it's a federal contractor, they can't even look

1038
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 3: at your resume because it doesn't meet the minimum requirements.

1039
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 3: So you have to at least have the minimum requirements

1040
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 3: before they'll even look at it. And really, what recruiters

1041
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 3: do is they look at the first batch of fifty

1042
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,240
Speaker 3: that came in, then they look at the next batch

1043
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 3: of fifty and the next.

1044
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 4: Batch of fifty.

1045
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 3: And if they have five, six, seven great candidates and

1046
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 3: they screen them and they all sound great, they're kind

1047
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 3: of done. They're not looking at the last thousand resumes

1048
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 3: or the last, you know, eighteen hundred resumes. They're looking

1049
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 3: at the first ones that come in. So you have

1050
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 3: to apply early. You have to have all the keywords.

1051
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 3: You have to ensure that your resume resonates with and

1052
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 3: it aligns with and is forward looking to the jobs

1053
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 3: that you're applying for. And if you know what you want,

1054
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: your resume should not need to be revised with every

1055
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 3: job you apply for. Because if you want to work

1056
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,240
Speaker 3: as an HR business partner, the job is the same everywhere.

1057
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 3: You might bring value you a little bit differently at

1058
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 3: different places, but the job is the same. So if

1059
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 3: you did it right the first time, you should not

1060
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 3: need to update it. It's when you don't know what

1061
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 3: you want that's the problem, and then your resume gets

1062
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 3: all convoluted and messy because you're updating it every week.

1063
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 4: You shouldn't have to. If you know what you want.

1064
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 2: Then it just looks like this, yeah, Frankenstein Like, yeah,

1065
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 2: as a hack housard and a quilt version of what

1066
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: your resume actually could be. But I like what you're saying.

1067
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 2: What I'm hearing you say is to not overly rely

1068
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: on AI, like, don't see it as a substitute, but

1069
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: certainly use it as a tool to help you to

1070
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 2: craft what it is that you're looking to put together

1071
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 2: for companies out there.

1072
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: Marlow, thank you so much for taking the time to

1073
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: join us today on the show. Where can our listeners

1074
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: find out more about you and what you're up to?

1075
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 3: Sure, you can find me on my website which is

1076
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 3: Marlow Lyonscoaching dot com. You can listen to my podcast

1077
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 3: Work Unscripted. I am on all the socials. You can

1078
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 3: find me on LinkedIn, on Instagram, Facebook, I sometimes I

1079
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 3: do a little bit of TikTok here and there. I'm

1080
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 3: not great on TikTok to be honest with you, so

1081
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 3: you can find me in all those different places, and

1082
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 3: you know, feel free to reach out if anybody needs

1083
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 3: any help with their career.

1084
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for taking the time to talk

1085
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 2: with us, duday Ay Marlow.

1086
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 4: You are welcome. It was great chatting with you guys.

1087
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, Let's hope everyone out there listening gets

1088
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,439
Speaker 1: to keep the job they have if.

1089
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 2: They love it. Let's hope for the best, and let's

1090
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 2: also hope that if they have a plan for the worst. Yeah.

1091
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: Maybe, yeah, maybe this is like the kick in the

1092
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: pants that that some of our listeners need to start

1093
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 1: hunting for something that they're going to be more happy

1094
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 1: to go to listen.

1095
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 2: To you adopting the kick in the pants and your

1096
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 2: language of yeah, I want to let you go first.

1097
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 2: As far as the big take away, because I wrote

1098
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 2: down so much, like there's so many notes that I

1099
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 2: took and nice not one liners, but just great pieces

1100
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 2: of wisdom when it comes to looking at your new

1101
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: potential career out there. But I think one of the

1102
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 2: most game changing things that she said in this conversation

1103
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 2: was think about what you want to do versus what

1104
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 2: you can do.

1105
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: And if I were versus the can Yeah, if I

1106
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:05,399
Speaker 1: look at some of my early work experience, well, hey

1107
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: I can work in fast food. I can do some

1108
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: pressure washing here and there. I mean there are just

1109
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: some jobs that I worked for a printer printing shop

1110
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: for a while, Like, those are things that I could do.

1111
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: There weren't things I wanted to do long term. They

1112
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: worked for the time, right, but I had my sights

1113
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: set on other things, like things that really did light

1114
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: me up. And so I think the further you get

1115
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: in your career, the harder it can be to think

1116
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: about your resume and to think about your next job

1117
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: prospect in that way. But I think it is really

1118
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 1: important because work is something we do spend a fair

1119
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 1: amount of our time in our lives doing, and it's

1120
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 1: I don't think it's that we should look for this

1121
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: and all be all job that helps us feel fulfilled

1122
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: in every single way. I mean there are other elements

1123
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: of our lives too that matter, family, friends, right, stuff

1124
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 1: like that.

1125
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 2: Community. But I think it's okay to say, what is

1126
00:51:58,360 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 2: it that I.

1127
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 1: Actually want to do with my life and with my

1128
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 1: forty hours or whatever that I'm giving to work each

1129
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: and every week and let that at least start to

1130
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: make your mind run wild in a good way about

1131
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:11,280
Speaker 1: what's possible.

1132
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah. In a similar note, when she was talking

1133
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 2: about getting your resume together, she is talking about how

1134
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 2: it's not about what you've done, but it's about what

1135
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 2: you've done that's relevant to what you want to do.

1136
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 2: And I love that. Like everything that she said today

1137
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 2: had a similar melody to it, where it's very much

1138
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 2: forward looking as opposed to backwards looking. And that's essentially

1139
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 2: what you're pointing to here as well. It's not about

1140
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 2: what you've done in the past, it's about what you

1141
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 2: want to do in the future. And my big takeaway

1142
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 2: is going to be about for folks out there who

1143
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 2: have been fired. She said three things you got to

1144
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 2: post on LinkedIn, so you need to be proactive, and

1145
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 2: she talked about the algorithm and why that plays your favor.

1146
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 2: You got to leave the house, so whether it's networking

1147
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,439
Speaker 2: or going out for coffee, like literally being out there

1148
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: irl brushing shoulders with people. That's going to pay dividends.

1149
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 2: But then aside from that, you got to take care

1150
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 2: of yourself as well. Figure out the things. They're going

1151
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 2: to keep your energy levels up so that you don't

1152
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 2: enter into some sort of like depressive spiral where you know,

1153
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 2: in a few months, a few months down the road,

1154
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 2: you don't even find yourself having a desire to do anything. Yeah.

1155
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 2: I felt like there was three awesome takeaways for folks

1156
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 2: who might find themselves in this position already.

1157
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. All right, let's get back to the beer

1158
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: real quick. This is called art Car I PA by

1159
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: Saint Arnold Brewing out of Texas. Or your thoughts on

1160
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: this IPA, brother.

1161
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: It's just funny you called me brother, and it's got

1162
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 2: like a stained glass looking I don't know, a minister, Yeah,

1163
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 2: a minister what do you call it? What do you

1164
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: call that kind of work, like like a priest, bishop

1165
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 2: or something. Yeah, which is funny because this is a

1166
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: beer out of Texas and you don't typically associate the

1167
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 2: Catholic Church with beer cans, but this brewery is called

1168
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 2: Saint Arnold, that is called I'd be curious to st Arnold. Yeah. Uh,

1169
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: this was like a classic American I PA. It wasn't

1170
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 2: overly bitter, It drinked really clean, It didn't have like

1171
00:53:55,680 --> 00:54:00,439
Speaker 2: that huge vegetable hot freshness going on. This feels like, oh,

1172
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 2: classic American IPA be really good.

1173
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: This reminds me of another i PA we had from

1174
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 1: Texas recently that just had that It wasn't like the hazy,

1175
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: juicy variety, but it also wasn't the super bitter, overwewhelmingly

1176
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 1: West Coast vibes that the rose smash. Yeah, and I'm like, oh,

1177
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 1: this is this is like that. This might be a

1178
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: little further in the West Coast direction from that one,

1179
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: but it maybe Texas. Man, they're doing i pas differently

1180
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: and good stuff. I can respect it.

1181
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 2: Totally agree. All Right, that's gonna be it for this episode,

1182
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 2: and find our show notes up on the website, and

1183
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 2: we'll link to Marlow's recent books and where you can

1184
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 2: check those out. Of course, our website is howtomoney dot com.

1185
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 2: The Buddy. That's gonna be it. So until next time,

1186
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 2: best Friends Out, best Friends Out.