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Speaker 1: This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, and we're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It's Sunday, July sixth, and

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Speaker 2: we hope you had an amazing holiday weekend. We have

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Speaker 2: a stack night of headlines.

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Speaker 1: Believe it or not.

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Speaker 2: The Tape Brothers they are fighting international charges in multiple countries.

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Speaker 2: If you're not sure who the Tape Brothers are, buckle up.

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Speaker 2: And also the rising ideology that's coming out of this

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Speaker 2: Brian Coburger new verdict or actually his change of plea,

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Speaker 2: I should say Brian Coburger is the person who's now

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Speaker 2: taken full responsibility for all four counts in the Idaho

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Speaker 2: college murders. And we're going to be kind of doing

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Speaker 2: a deep dive into something called in cells and if

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Speaker 2: you're not familiar, we're talking dark web and really important stuff,

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Speaker 2: so please stay with us. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I

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Speaker 2: head of Katie Studios, where we make true crime podcasts

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Speaker 2: like The Idaho Massacre, Murder one oh one and The

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Speaker 2: Piked and Massacre, as well as documentaries. And I get

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Speaker 2: to do that with Courtney Armstrong, who is the voice

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Speaker 2: of many of these podcasts. And also crime analyst Body

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Speaker 2: move in. You'll remember her from Donuf with Kats, the

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Speaker 2: Emmy Award winning Netflix documentary. And before we go too

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Speaker 2: too much further, I just want to say that our

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Speaker 2: hearts are so with Texas tonight, so much chaos and

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Speaker 2: confusion and loss. I just want everyone to know that

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Speaker 2: we are all rallying in spirit and sending our prayers

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Speaker 2: for anyone who was still missing loved ones. And also

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Speaker 2: on behalf of Kat's studios, thank you for watching our

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Speaker 2: documentary The Idaho Student Murders, which is airing now on Peacock.

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Speaker 1: It's number one in the country.

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Speaker 2: I say that not to talk about ratings, but really

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Speaker 2: just to say for the families of the victims, the

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Speaker 2: Mogan family, the Gonzalvez family, the Kernodle family, and the

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Speaker 2: Shape and family. I hope that is an example of

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Speaker 2: how much we all care. The whole country is really

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Speaker 2: rallying for you and sending you our prayers. On a

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Speaker 2: lighter note, true Crime tonight, this show. We're so grateful

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Speaker 2: for you to be listening. It's been four weeks since

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Speaker 2: our launch and it's been number one in true crime

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Speaker 2: since day one, So we are entering week five. Our

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Speaker 2: twenty sixth episode is tonight. That means like fifty plus

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Speaker 2: hours of live content and none of that would make

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Speaker 2: any sense if you guys were a not listening and

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Speaker 2: also calling in. So remember eight eight eight three one crime.

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Speaker 2: We really want to hear your opinions. They do not

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Speaker 2: have to be like ours, Like jump in, join the conversation,

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Speaker 2: and if you want to leave a talk back, which

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Speaker 2: is kind of like a voice memo, just download the

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Speaker 2: iHeart app and in the top right hand corner you

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Speaker 2: can press this button and leave us a message and

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Speaker 2: that will be on the show and kind of a

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Speaker 2: jumping off point for us to have a conversation.

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Speaker 1: We want to hear your opinion.

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Speaker 2: You can always hit us up on our socials too,

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Speaker 2: at True Crime Tonight show on TikTok and Instagram, and

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Speaker 2: at True Crime Tonight on Facebook. So putting all of

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Speaker 2: that aside, if you've been on vacation or frankly under

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Speaker 2: a rock, there's been some big developments last week in

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Speaker 2: the p Didty case and also the Idaho college murders.

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Speaker 2: So Courtney, do you want to bring us up to

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Speaker 2: speed on just the headlines that we've been tracking all week?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely Brian Coberger, thirty year old former criminal justice PhD student.

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Speaker 3: After a year and a half of proclaiming his innocence,

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Speaker 3: he pled guilty. This happened on July second, and this

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Speaker 3: was for the November thirteenth, twenty twenty two murders of

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Speaker 3: four innocent and beautiful University of Idaho students, kille Gonsalvez,

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Speaker 3: Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Shapin, in exchange for

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Speaker 3: avoiding the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: That's what basically, that's what the guilty plea was for.

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Speaker 3: So he will not face the death penalty, there will

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Speaker 3: not be a trial, and he also gave up the

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Speaker 3: right to any and all appeals.

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Speaker 1: So that is what happened. It was a big and

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Speaker 1: surprising change. Yeah. Time change seemingly came out of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: Just a week prior, the judge ruled, you know, that

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Speaker 1: they couldn't introduce new suspects that they thought were suspects,

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Speaker 1: and the judge denied, you know, delaying the trial. So

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Speaker 1: it was a very big surprise that, you know, a

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Speaker 1: few days after, the judge said, well, you can't blame

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Speaker 1: any more people now that they're playing you know, so

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Speaker 1: you know, there's some criticism and rightfully so that how

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Speaker 1: dare you know they try to blame other people when

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Speaker 1: he's guilty the whole time.

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Speaker 3: There's been a lot of criticism of that and for

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Speaker 3: other people, for other people. Correct were who they wanted to.

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Speaker 2: Write, which physical names were in print and at public disposal,

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Speaker 2: so you know, just you know, as a reminder, it

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Speaker 2: has been two and a half years since the murders

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Speaker 2: and Brian Coberger claiming his innocence also putting names out

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Speaker 2: there where you know, that puts a lot of people

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Speaker 2: in jeopardy.

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Speaker 1: You can figure out even though it's you're adapted, you

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Speaker 1: can figure out who they're talking about absolutely if you

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Speaker 1: know the case, you know who they're talking about.

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Speaker 2: You knew within thirteen seconds who they were talking to

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Speaker 2: and that even the adacted information went out, so you know, yes,

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Speaker 2: there's best case scenarios is things are getting redacted, meaning

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Speaker 2: like almost like sharp eed out, so you know, some

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Speaker 2: key names and details are always removed for some of

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Speaker 2: this public documentation, but it's not super hard to figure out.

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Speaker 2: So you know, Brian Coberger, even in the eleventh hour,

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Speaker 2: was really pointing the finger elsewhere and causing more chaos

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Speaker 2: and confusion, and for for everyone us included, you know,

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Speaker 2: as audience members who have been following it closely. I

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Speaker 2: think we were all just got punched.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and we will continue following even later

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Speaker 3: in the week. We're going to do a real deep

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Speaker 3: dive into the evidence that we know about, which is

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Speaker 3: a lot. So we will continue following this In p

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Speaker 3: Diddy News, his federal case updates. So this was the

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Speaker 3: trial that really everyone was watching. He was charged Manhattan

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Speaker 3: Federal Court with five counts a racketeering conspiracy, two counts

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Speaker 3: of sex trafficking by force, fraud, or coercion, two counts

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Speaker 3: of transportation for prostitution that was under the Man Act.

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Speaker 3: And he was found guilty only of the two lesser

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Speaker 3: charges of the five, and that was for transportation of prostitution.

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Speaker 3: Each count carries up to ten years in prison. We'll

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Speaker 3: see what happens. We do not yet have a date

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Speaker 3: for when the sentencing will happen. I believe the judge

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Speaker 3: said October is what he was pushing for. The defense

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Speaker 3: wanted it much quicker, so we will.

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Speaker 1: All October seems outrageous, it does. It's months away, I know.

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Speaker 2: But that's the standard, right so or standard because this

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Speaker 2: is a very divisive topic. Just to kind of lay

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Speaker 2: out both sides. On the one hand, the prosecution and

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Speaker 2: the victims and those that are Antiddy, dare I say,

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Speaker 2: you know, they think the longer the better, and that

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Speaker 2: this was a sham verdict and that the prosecution did

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Speaker 2: appropriately prove some key things, but maybe the presentation didn't

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Speaker 2: quite land. Obviously it didn't with the jurors, but you know,

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Speaker 2: they feel like he got a he got a free walk.

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Speaker 2: On the other side of that is, look, he was

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Speaker 2: brought up on two charges that does in fact have time.

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Speaker 2: Did he has been you know, serving prison time or

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Speaker 2: jail time and not great conditions for close to a year.

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Speaker 1: Now is that enough?

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Speaker 2: If maybe it wasn't Diddy and was some stranger off

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Speaker 2: the street, that person probably would have been released in

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Speaker 2: home on bail. Here's the next third thought, which is

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Speaker 2: they did prove he was very violent, and you know,

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Speaker 2: this is something that could kind of spawn a revenge

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Speaker 2: tour from you know, pro Diddy people, for people who

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Speaker 2: testified against him. So I don't know where I sit

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Speaker 2: in it. The whole thing kind of has exhausted me.

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Speaker 2: Emotionally behind words that I'm actually excited to talk about

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Speaker 2: new things.

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Speaker 1: So one thing I.

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Speaker 3: Will say is, Stephanie, you said, oh, you know, if

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Speaker 3: he was any other Joe, he'd be he'd be home. Well,

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Speaker 3: keep in mind he has not on limited resources but

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Speaker 3: close to it seems, so, you know, gigantically a flight risk.

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Speaker 3: And also he is dangerous. He even after the indictment,

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Speaker 3: he then was still abusing people. Correct, So anyway, he's

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Speaker 3: not a Joe on the street. He's got a lot

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Speaker 3: of resources. So I think that was the absolute correct call.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Body

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Speaker 1: Moven and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Blaudecker.

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Speaker 1: And right now we're right in the middle of talking

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Speaker 1: about Diddy. We want to know your thoughts. Do you

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Speaker 1: think the sentence was appropriate? Do you think sentencing in

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Speaker 1: October is outlandish? Give us a call one eight eight

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Speaker 1: eight thirty one crime or leave us a talkback on

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app and we have a talkback. Can we

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Speaker 1: hear that Diddy talkback?

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Speaker 4: A Hi, my name is Sarah. And in terms of

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Speaker 4: the Diddy case, do you think that part of them.

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Speaker 4: Having a hard time structuring the hierarchy of the enterprise

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Speaker 4: came a little bit from the fact that his right

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Speaker 4: hand man was a woman, this KK, that you know,

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Speaker 4: we didn't hear very much about, and you guys have

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Speaker 4: talked about maybe they're going to prosecute her. But either way,

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Speaker 4: do you think that had difficulty through a wrench in it?

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Speaker 1: What's a great question. I did not even think about that.

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Speaker 1: It's an interesting question.

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Speaker 3: I my gut, my knee jerk reaction is no, particularly

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Speaker 3: since she wasn't actually in court.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, nobody was in court though there was not

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Speaker 2: a single person in court for the defense, not a

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Speaker 2: single person. By the way, Kanye West, who has collaborated

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Speaker 2: apparently with one of Ditty's sons on a recent release

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Speaker 2: of a song, he was there for ten minutes.

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Speaker 1: So other than.

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Speaker 2: That, there has been nobody standing with Diddy by Diddy

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Speaker 2: from Diddy like nobody. So the fact that KK wasn't there,

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Speaker 2: and KK is not Kim Kardashian, KK is Christina Korum,

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Speaker 2: who was his chief of staff and a former executive

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Speaker 2: of Bad Boys, maybe it's not not a clean slate

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Speaker 2: because we do know that there's fifty plus civil lawsuits

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Speaker 2: that are now popping up against Ditty from various victims,

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Speaker 2: none of which were part of this trial, and she's

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Speaker 2: cited in many of those. So maybe what doesn't work

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Speaker 2: in the courtroom criminally works in the wallet.

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Speaker 1: So is the idea that because the chief of staff,

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Speaker 1: who is you know, charged with kind of organizing some

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Speaker 1: of these things for Ditty? Is the idea that she's

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Speaker 1: because she's a woman, she wouldn't necessarily be like a

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Speaker 1: predator of some kind and therefore the jury didn't find

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Speaker 1: the organization in like a criminal enterprise? Is that the

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Speaker 1: idea it's.

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Speaker 2: Like sexism in a criminal way, in some upside down parallel.

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Speaker 1: I never thought about that until she said that. What

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Speaker 1: a good question.

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Speaker 2: Insightful, But keep in mind, I guess I don't know

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Speaker 2: only that, Yeah, like there is.

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Speaker 1: One parallel worth mentioning.

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Speaker 3: Though.

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Speaker 2: You know, Ditty's case often gets kind of referred to

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Speaker 2: as similar to the Epstein case in terms of racketeering,

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Speaker 2: sex trafficking, etc. And you know Epstein infamously had Gelaane Maxwell,

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Speaker 2: who was his right arm, and she is serving time

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Speaker 2: in prison and was brought up on charges. So in

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Speaker 2: that case, that theory didn't apply, but I don't know did.

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Speaker 2: He's like been a shake up for all of us.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a really interesting point. I don't even

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Speaker 2: know what to respond.

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Speaker 3: I know, yeah, it's interesting, but I also think many

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Speaker 3: women do many of the horrible things. Listen, KK was

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Speaker 3: not on trial, so you know, who's to say.

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Speaker 1: But so I wonder if a man was running the

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Speaker 1: show that she has a chief of staff, would Diddy

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Speaker 1: have made that man more involved? Because there, you know,

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Speaker 1: there were techs that said, you know, I don't want

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Speaker 1: KK to know or I don't want KK involved. I

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Speaker 1: wonder if it was a man, would that man have

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Speaker 1: been more involved in these you know, setups? And this

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Speaker 1: the enterprise maybe laid out in a more cleanly way.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, and perhaps we hear from some capacity now that

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Speaker 2: this trial is over, you know, even if it's just

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Speaker 2: to share her perspective in a judgment for you place,

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Speaker 2: I would have to assume she's being a low profile.

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Speaker 2: But I too was surprised that she was a no

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Speaker 2: show at the trial period.

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Speaker 1: No me, I was too. And maybe we will, maybe

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Speaker 1: we won't. We're at the stay tuned. Coming up next,

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Speaker 1: the mother of an infamous mass shooter is helping identify

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Speaker 1: warning signs, what should we be looking for, and the

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Speaker 1: story of how two brothers went from selling real estate

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Speaker 1: to Kim Kardashian to being charged for sex trafficking. Keep

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Speaker 1: it right here, True Crime Tonight or We're talking true

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Speaker 1: crime all the time.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Look, we are switching gears

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Speaker 2: into new topics. Let's leave ditty behind for the evening.

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Speaker 2: Let's leave coburger behind for the evening. Let's talk about

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Speaker 2: the Tape Brothers and their influence and what it means

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Speaker 2: to be in this misogynistic culture. I'm learning about this

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Speaker 2: real time, and also the shocking allegations against the real

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Speaker 2: estate mogul, the Alexander brothers, lots of brothers in the

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Speaker 2: headlines right now. The Tape Brothers, as mentioned earlier, are

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Speaker 2: being brought up on charges in multiple countries. They are

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Speaker 2: fighting that, and we're going to unpack body. I know

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Speaker 2: you've been following this very very closely. In Cells is

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Speaker 2: a word that we're using a lot internally and will

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Speaker 2: continue to do so and teach about or learn about together.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, this is something very close to your heart.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm really interested in what things that

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Speaker 1: happen on the internet. You've probably heard this term in

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Speaker 1: cell tossed around online, but what does it actually mean.

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Speaker 1: It stands for in voluntarily celibate, and it describes people,

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Speaker 1: usually men. There are female in cells are called fem cells.

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Speaker 1: But for the purposes of this discussion, we're just going

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Speaker 1: to be talking about the men, because we're talking about

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Speaker 1: in cell specifically, and these men and they're usually young,

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Speaker 1: I would say, in their twenties, and they start this

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Speaker 1: ideology in their teens. But it's usually men who feel

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Speaker 1: like they can't get into romantic or sexual relationships no

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Speaker 1: matter how hard they try. As I'm sure will become

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Speaker 1: really clear, all the cases that we're covering tonight have

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Speaker 1: one thing in common. They all the alleged perpetrators and

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Speaker 1: all these cases are all associated with this misogynistic rhetoric

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Speaker 1: that has been linked to an increase in violence against women.

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Speaker 1: So it's a very serious topic. And a new study

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Speaker 1: published in the Journal of Gender and Education out of

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Speaker 1: Canada is finding that boys are adopting Andrew Tate's misogynistic

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Speaker 1: views and bringing them into class, which is quite alarming.

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Speaker 1: Teachers worry that the rise in Tate inspired misogynistic rhetoric

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Speaker 1: will lead to tangible safety threats like gender based violence

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Speaker 1: in schools. Researchers wrote in this article, So, who are

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Speaker 1: the Tate brothers. You've never heard of him, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's where we're going to go. So Andrew Tate he

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Speaker 1: is a former four time kickboxing world champion, and he

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Speaker 1: was on Big Brother UK, which, of course I love

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Speaker 1: the Big Brother. Everybody who knows me knows body loves

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Speaker 1: Big Brother. I'm obsessed with Big Brother. Well, he was

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Speaker 1: on Big Brother in twenty sixteen and he was kicked

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Speaker 1: off because as he was like on the show, charges

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Speaker 1: were being filed against him in the UK for rape.

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Speaker 1: Andrew Tait was charged with rape in the UK and

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Speaker 1: they removed him from Big Brother. The UK authorities have

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Speaker 1: cited his influence as terrifying, particularly in the content of

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Speaker 1: the context of radicalizing boys online, and that's exactly what's

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Speaker 1: happening young boys too, middle schoolers in theory, right, I

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Speaker 1: would say probably starts around seventh or eighth grade around

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Speaker 1: that time. Yeah, that's right, around that time. He moved

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Speaker 1: to Romania in twenty seventeen, saying in a now deleted

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Speaker 1: YouTube post that forty percent of the reason he chose

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Speaker 1: Eastern Europe was because he believed that sexual assault cases

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Speaker 1: were less likely to be investigated there. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: guy is misogyny, and he openly declares himself a misogynist

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Speaker 1: dating an interview. I'm absolutely a misogynist. There's no way

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Speaker 1: you can be rooted in reality and not be sexist.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say.

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Speaker 3: Plenty of people have responded, so yes, millions of millions listen.

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Speaker 3: But also he had a podcast on Spotify. It was

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Speaker 3: taken down after complaints from users. There was an online

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Speaker 3: petition signed by more than ninety two thousand people, and

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Speaker 3: it was the degree course and something was titled pimping

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Speaker 3: Hose and that was deemed to be in breach of

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Speaker 3: a company's rules.

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Speaker 1: But well, he's got hot water. He's gotten banned from

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Speaker 1: almost every single platform, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok. He continues

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Speaker 1: on X because X is kind of like the wild

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Speaker 1: wild West, right, everybody can be on X, but it's

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Speaker 1: due to this promotion of this misogyny. Due to this

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Speaker 1: promotion and statements such as women should bear responsibility for

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Speaker 1: being sexually assaulted. Yeah, so he's not a good guy.

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Speaker 1: He runs a webcam company and he would show other

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Speaker 1: men or talk to other men about how to be

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Speaker 1: a sex trafficker and how to scam money out of

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Speaker 1: girls in how women are your property and yes, you

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Speaker 1: absolutely should be making money and stealing from them. It's

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Speaker 1: pretty bad. So he's not a good guy. The Romanian courts.

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Speaker 1: He moved to Romania on twenty seventeen, right, I told

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Speaker 1: you all that already. And he was arrested in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two for sex trafficking seven women and money laundering

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Speaker 1: and rape. The Romanian courts abruptly reversed the charges and

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Speaker 1: allowed Tate to leave the country after several high level

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Speaker 1: Trump administrators took an official interest in this case. Andrew

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Speaker 1: Tate is a US citizen. He's got dual citizenship with

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Speaker 1: the United States in Britain. So can I ask one

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Speaker 1: just layman's questions.

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Speaker 2: You said he was on Big Brother, the reality show,

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Speaker 2: but the K version, So I have not seen that.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I don't recall him at all. You

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Speaker 1: haven't seen that K version? Essay? Do I have to

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Speaker 1: start that tonight? Yes, you have to start that it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: It's incredible that and below deck, I have a lot

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Speaker 2: of TV to watch tonight.

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Speaker 1: I really where to start. Well, for now, you have

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Speaker 1: to stay right here because this is true crime tonight

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio. I'm Body Move and I'm here with Courtney

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Speaker 1: Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker and we're talking about the Tate Brothers.

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Speaker 1: Give us a call eight at eight thirty one crime

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Speaker 1: or tell us your thoughts on the iHeart ap and

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Speaker 1: we have a talk back.

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Speaker 5: This is Matthew from Boston and I just wanted to

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Speaker 5: talk about the Tape Brothers and their content. I'm a

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Speaker 5: big fan of what they put out on most social

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Speaker 5: media platforms. I think they tell it like it is.

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Speaker 5: I think women kind of overreact. I think they tell

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Speaker 5: the younger generation and stuff how to like be men,

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Speaker 5: and yeah, we kind of need that these days.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, first of all, can I just jump in.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy that Matthew is leaving us a talk back,

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Speaker 2: like to keep the conversation. We don't all have to

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Speaker 2: agree to have the conversation. So Matthew, we're very grateful

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Speaker 2: for your opinion, so thank you for sharing it.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, we want everybody to share those

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Speaker 1: I got to kind.

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Speaker 2: Of think on that, Matthew for a hot second, because

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Speaker 2: you know, is that really what we need right now?

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Speaker 2: I'm not totally landing with that, but I wish you

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Speaker 2: called us so maybe you could.

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Speaker 1: Set a straight, yeah conversation. I'd love to have a

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Speaker 1: conversation about why, like what specifically about the Andrew Tate

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Speaker 1: theology is helping young men become men, because right now

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Speaker 1: I don't think it really. I don't think it is.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's helping at all. And I think

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Speaker 1: that if fathers were more involved in their children's life,

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't need Andrew Tate to help them become men.

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Speaker 3: I gotta be honest, I really understand where Matthew is

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Speaker 3: coming from. He on his face Andrew Tate. He is athletic,

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Speaker 3: he is powerful, he is confident, he has money. And also, societally,

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Speaker 3: we are all so much on our devices. Listen, no

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Speaker 3: one more than me, but listen. If you are sitting

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Speaker 3: there in your room and you're trying to figure out

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Speaker 3: your hormones because you're in middle school, and here is

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Speaker 3: a guy who is all those things I just listed,

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Speaker 3: I understand one follow It's appealing, be powerful, be a man,

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Speaker 3: So I really understand it. It terrifies me to my core,

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Speaker 3: but I get it.

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Speaker 1: But isn't that so scary too?

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Speaker 2: As we're coming off the Diddy trial where we physically

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Speaker 2: saw puff Daddy, did he beating a woman on camera, which,

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Speaker 2: by his own admission is part of his jam, not

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Speaker 2: his favorite quality about himself, but by his own admission,

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Speaker 2: did he says? Yeah, you know, this was I'm violent,

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Speaker 2: domestically violent, and that should be okay, and jurors said

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Speaker 2: that it was. We're following Brian Coberger, who was you know,

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Speaker 2: basically said yeah, sure, I did it. I killed four people,

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Speaker 2: three of which were women. Just because we don't know

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Speaker 2: why yet, We're going to be following that very closely.

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Speaker 2: But obviously there's something low key happening there to want

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Speaker 2: to take lives so callously.

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Speaker 1: That's a scary thing.

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Speaker 2: And is Andrew Tate messaging something that is equal to saying, hey, look, yeah,

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Speaker 2: sexually assault people.

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Speaker 1: Ain't no thing.

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Speaker 2: It's that's the scary part, because even confident, well spoken, rich,

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Speaker 2: affluent people can still be extremely degrading and violent. And

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Speaker 2: I think it's a scary thing for people who are

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Speaker 2: victims that are going up against this. It's in the

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Speaker 2: bones Ideologically, how do we keep this conversation going without

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Speaker 2: shutting it down and being myopic about it? And not

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Speaker 2: only that'll talk about stuff we won't really like find

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Speaker 2: the solve.

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Speaker 1: And how do we have this conversation with pushing people

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Speaker 1: like Matthew who called and left us that talk back

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Speaker 1: disagreeing with us. Basically, how do we have this conversation

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Speaker 1: without pushing those people away? Right?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 1: We want to keep we want to keep everybody included

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Speaker 1: and not exclude right because we want to change hearts

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Speaker 1: and minds and have conversations that openly discuss these topics.

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Speaker 3: I think it's also what is the better And I

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Speaker 3: don't know the answer to this, What is the better

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Speaker 3: alternative to young boys, young men than listening to Andrew

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Speaker 3: Tate his eleven million followers on us?

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Speaker 1: You know? They and his brother by the way, Trisian, Oh,

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Speaker 1: the brother, Yeah, we can't forget him. He runs the

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Speaker 1: business with Andrew Tate. They have a webcam studio where

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Speaker 1: they employ as many as seventy five models. And what

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Speaker 1: they do is they just scam in out of their money.

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Speaker 1: An online membership to the platform which taught with teaches

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Speaker 1: men how to get rich quick. It's called Hustlers University,

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Speaker 1: and the other one is called The Real World that

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Speaker 1: serves like a really similar purpose. And he self describes

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Speaker 1: himself Christian Tate, as a pimp. I mean, they're not

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Speaker 1: hiding it. These guys are not hiding that they're pimps.

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Speaker 1: But I want to quickly let everybody know he is not.

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Speaker 1: The Tate brothers are not in cells, but what is

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Speaker 1: important to know is that they share like really similar ideology.

434
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 1: They're all kind of misogynistic, and you know, some in

435
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: cells admire Tate, seeing him as somebody who's escaped this

436
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: powerless male role that they feel trapped in. So Andrew

437
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: Tate and the Tate brothers are not in cells, but

438
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: again they're in the then diagram of in cells and Tate.

439
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 1: The circle where they intersect is rather large.

440
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: And that's what's the answer for young people, as young

441
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 2: boys are coming up, like, what is the alternative?

442
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: Is such a great question.

443
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,679
Speaker 2: I certainly don't have the answer, but I think they

444
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 2: should be an ongoing convo that we try to at

445
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 2: least exposure to the answers.

446
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm learning too. I would love to

447
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 1: have conversations with people that know a lot more than

448
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: I do, because I you know, I'm trying to understand

449
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: it too. I'm yeah, And I think.

450
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 3: We will be talking about them for sure, both Andrew

451
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 3: and Tristan Tate. They're currently facing multiple charges in Romania

452
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 3: and the UK, and now a Florida Attorney General has

453
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 3: opened a preliminary criminal investigation into them.

454
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: And yes, I did not know that.

455
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 3: Yes, so this is going to be big. We will

456
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 3: be following it. And also there's there's gonna be a

457
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 3: lot of courtroom time for these guys.

458
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 2: Right, and like is Matthew saying he loves sexual assault?

459
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 2: Where Matthew was saying he loves what is it that

460
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 2: he loves about the tape?

461
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: Brothers?

462
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 2: Like, if you have an opinion on this, please jump

463
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 2: in eighty eighty three to one crime. We are a

464
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 2: safe audience to talk, but you have to call us

465
00:23:50,520 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 2: to participate. Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. Oh,

466
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: we're talking true crime all the time.

467
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: Listen.

468
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 2: There's been a ton of news this week, but we

469
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 2: are moving on to some new topics. We're going to

470
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,360
Speaker 2: be talking about how mass murderer Elliott Rogers. You might

471
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 2: not remember him, but he was back in the Santa

472
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 2: Barbara days. He was quote unquote an inceell And that's

473
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: going to be sort of our unpack of the evening

474
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: and much more on that to come and even nights

475
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 2: later because it's a very heavy, big topic and it's meaningful.

476
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: And also, you know, there's been this very high profile

477
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: case in the news with these Miami brothers who have

478
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: been charged with sex trafficking. We covered it, you know,

479
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: several weeks ago. There were all these videos that were

480
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 2: leaking and it was very unexpected about this mayhem in Miami,

481
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 2: and Courtney.

482
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: You've been doing a deep dive into this.

483
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, a friend of the Alexander brothers was accused of

484
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 3: joining in a gang rape and that is set for

485
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 3: trial next week. In fact, so this friend of the

486
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 3: Alexander b others, Ohad Fisherman, was charged along with Alan

487
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 3: and Orin Alexander. This was in December, and this was

488
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 3: for allegedly pinning down a twenty five year old woman

489
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 3: in a Miami Beach apartment. It's happened back in twenty

490
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 3: sixteen on New Year's Eve. So the Alexander brothers for

491
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 3: anyone who is not conversant orin in tal they are

492
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 3: celebrity real estate brokers. They have brokeered record breaking deals,

493
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 3: including a two hundred and forty million dollar penthouse in Manhattan.

494
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 3: It was the most residential the highest residential stale in

495
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 3: US history at the time. Client tell lots of famous

496
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 3: people given the money, Kanye West, Kim Kardashian, who somehow

497
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 3: we've now said her name three times in the show.

498
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 1: She is not accused of anything.

499
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 3: And both of these brothers were featured in the Forbes

500
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 3: thirty under thirty for real estate back in twenty nineteen.

501
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: So they are big deal professionals. Yeah, they're I mean,

502
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: that's high real estate, right, that's a lot of money.

503
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: Can't they do better things with their time? Though?

504
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 2: Like all that money, all that influence, all that power.

505
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 2: These are like young, successful, affluent you know air quotes

506
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: handsome men with a lot of ability to do extraordinary things.

507
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 3: What a bummer in there, And they've been doing some,

508
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 3: you know, according to the allegations, doing some real terrible things.

509
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 3: So the trial that I mentioned before with Ohad Fishermen,

510
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 3: it's going to begin in Miami Tuesday of this week.

511
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: Actually, oh, it's starting Tuesday. Yeah, it is.

512
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 3: And he is expected to go to trial alone because

513
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 3: the Alexander brothers they're busy facing their in federal custody

514
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 3: for their sex trafficking cases. Oh wow, yeah, so interesting.

515
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 3: It's a superseding federal indictment that was filed back in May,

516
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 3: and it had new sex trafficking charges, including trafficking a minor,

517
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 3: and it named six alleged victims. And Alan and Oran's

518
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 3: trial is scheduled for January twenty twenty six.

519
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 2: You think they're all watching the Diddy trial and excited

520
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: by the outcome of the Didy trial, Like this just

521
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 2: reinforces that it's fine. By the way, I love Miami,

522
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 2: shout out to South Beach and the greatness that is there.

523
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 2: So this is a real blemish on an incredible city

524
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: in my opinion. But yeah, do you think they're like

525
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 2: behind bars thinking we're going to totally walk like nobody

526
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 2: cares about women and trafficking and so.

527
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: What, especially in federal court.

528
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not at all, which is interesting because federal

529
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: car court, which I've learned from you guys, has such

530
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: a high what's it called when you get a guilty

531
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: verdict high.

532
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 3: It's like a ninety eight percent, yeah, winning rate on

533
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 3: the words escaping me as wow, I'm.

534
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 2: Able to speak about this, but like I do, they

535
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: usually win. The Feds don't play right, that's the shtick.

536
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: If the Feds are bringing you on charges, they have

537
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 2: a ninety eight percent success rate when they go to trial.

538
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: And Diddy was, you know, far from that, far far

539
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: far from that. I mean, I'm sure they're watching that going,

540
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: you know even. I mean, this was such a high

541
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: publicity case too, so there's additional pressure from the masses

542
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: right to get in this guilty verdict and it fell

543
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: flat on his face.

544
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 3: Well, the brothers are actually being held, Stephanie, you are

545
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 3: going to perk up at this. They are being held

546
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 3: with Ditty at the Metropolitan Detention Center in the Ditty's there,

547
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: and they're the legend murderer of United Healthcare CEO Luigi

548
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 3: man Gione is also there.

549
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: What ate this show? Okay?

550
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: So we have to just like stop right there for

551
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: one quick second, quick beat, quick beat, quick, let me

552
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: take this in. So Didty allegedly going to be there

553
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 2: until October till sentencing, and chances are he'll have time

554
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: served and like Beauty, he's buds and roommates with Sam Bankman,

555
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: the you know, infamous white collar fraud who's also serving time.

556
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: They're actual roommates. We know Luigi is there and now

557
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: these brothers are also there. What the heck is happening

558
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: in this Brooklyn location?

559
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: I wonder if you know what'll be interesting to see

560
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: is if these Alexander brothers don't put on a defense, right,

561
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be like, let's watch for that. Yeah,

562
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: let's put that on a radar to see if they

563
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: put on a defense. Are they taking cues from what

564
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: did he did?

565
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 4: Like?

566
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: This is so ridiculous, We're not even putting a defense on.

567
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: These charges are utterly preposterous, right, not worth father putting

568
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: a defense on, that's right.

569
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 3: See, And they're charged with really some absolutely hideous and

570
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 3: violent things. Their legal troubles began back when a real

571
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 3: estate publication it was called The Real Deal, published an

572
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 3: article about how two women filed lawsuits against the brothers.

573
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 3: This is back in June of twenty twenty four. Since then,

574
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: allegations absolutely have snowballed. One common refrain in the women's

575
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: complaints is that the brothers it is hard to say.

576
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 3: Often took turns assaulting them while others watched or pinned

577
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 3: them down. And these allegations go back to as far

578
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 3: as when the brothers were in high school. What take

579
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 3: that in?

580
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: Pardon me take it in? How? Yeah?

581
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: How triggering is this for anybody who's been a victim

582
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 2: of sexual assault. I'm sorry that you're even hearing this,

583
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: because again, it just like makes it like the the

584
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 2: cards are stacked. It's kind of stacked against victims, is

585
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,479
Speaker 2: what it sounds like. I wish my brother was working

586
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: for the prosecution. Still, my brother, Richard Lidecker, he would

587
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: not have it. And you know, as a mate lawyer

588
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: and ask him questions about this, Yeah, he would not

589
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: be okay, and he would make them serve time.

590
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: Oh I love your brother. Well, this is true crime

591
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: Tonight on iHeartRadio, I'm Body Moven and I'm here with

592
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Lydecker and right now we're right

593
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: in the middle of talking about these Alexander brothers and

594
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: these federal charges that they are facing. So their try

595
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: whose trial starts this week again A friend, Oh had fisherman,

596
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: Oh hot fisherman. And that's the cutains, that's the friend

597
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: of theirs. It's the friend theirs. And so they're being held.

598
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: The Anders Alexander brothers are being held in federal prison

599
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: right now. When is their trial expected to start? January

600
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: fifth of twenty twenty six. We are about six months away,

601
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: six months away from there. And body you had asked

602
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: how old they are, they're in their mid to late thirties.

603
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: Oh my Christmas. Young. What a waste? What a waste?

604
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 4: You know.

605
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: What one thing I will say about the Diddy trial,

606
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: it is a little bit of a handbook about, you know,

607
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,719
Speaker 2: how to do bad things and get away with it,

608
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: you know. And I'm glad we have the opportunity to

609
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: talk about it and kind of unpack it because it's

610
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 2: controversial and it's not everybody you know, agrees with me personally,

611
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: and that's completely fine. Obviously jurors don't as well. But

612
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: I'm glad we get to look at it and understand

613
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: it a bit better, because again, we don't want to

614
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: give a green light to other people to behave badly

615
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: and mistreat women or men.

616
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's just not okay, or you.

617
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: Know, if you're crazy for Diddy, these guys, you know,

618
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: will probably get a free ride too well.

619
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 3: And a lot or several of the counts against them

620
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 3: are identical to Diddy. So there are three brothers and

621
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 3: all three face charges of conspiracy to commit sex trap picking,

622
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 3: three accounts of sex trafficking by force, fraud or coercion,

623
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 3: which you remember from Ditty, and account of inducement to

624
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 3: travel to engage in unlawful sexual activity.

625
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: That sounds like the transportation. It's very similar to the

626
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: Tape brothers. They're you know, in Romania. They were facing

627
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: thirty five charges of trafficking.

628
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: Wow, so trafficking the way, you know, because I think

629
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: that was a tricky thing. Even in the Ditty tribe.

630
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: We think of trafficking, we think of a young girl

631
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: who's like taken against the will out of a public

632
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: bathroom and like you know, shipped off to a different like.

633
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 1: A shipping container and like correct in Long Beach charbor,

634
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: you know, and then she's off to Singapore exactly. And

635
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: that's what misuble everything trafficking is, right, It's almost like

636
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: we need a different name for what's happening, even though

637
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: that's literally what this is is sex trafficking. But it's

638
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: almost like we need a different name for it, because

639
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: that's what I think of too. I'm guilty of it.

640
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, but I think it's broadening the definition

641
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 3: or having people comprehend that what has occurred or you know,

642
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,719
Speaker 3: what I believe occurred with Ditty was trafficking.

643
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: My sexual escorts that were put across state lines, whether

644
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: that's from Las Vegas to California or to Paris, because

645
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: x Cassie Ventura in the Ditty case, claimed that she

646
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 2: had to have sex with escorts to please Ditty and

647
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: that oftentimes they would travel with this gaggle of escorts

648
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: across state lines or even to different countries. Is that

649
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 2: trafficking or is that I am agreeing to have sex

650
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: with somebody under my own will and I happened to

651
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: be in across country flight.

652
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: Right, And that's what I think. That's what's confusing. And

653
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: there's no clear line, right, Like if if we want

654
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: to be empowering women, if some women want to be

655
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: you know, selling themselves for money, that's their right. Like

656
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: at what point is it trafficking versus willing?

657
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 3: When it's coercion and force and listen, it doesn't matter

658
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 3: if it's a cargo ship or a private plane.

659
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: Well, said Courtney Armstrong very well said, I would love

660
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: to have the Punisher on. He's the escort that's doing

661
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: a lot of press right now, who is an escort

662
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 2: in the Ditty Cassie Ventura triangle. And he's an interesting speaker.

663
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 2: He's so sophisticated he is. I think he's kind of

664
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: I find him interesting beyond him, has a very unique perspective,

665
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: and I feel like he's walked a very tight line

666
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: in a very interesting way about his participation, his interpretation

667
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: of things.

668
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 1: It feels polished a little bit though, like he's got

669
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: to have pr because he is just so well spoken,

670
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 1: so eloquent. He hasn't really like said Diddy's a bad guy.

671
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: I mean, he's really walked that line right. He's done

672
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: a really good job of that.

673
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind having him on. I hope if he's

674
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: listening that he'll join us because I have a few questions,

675
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,959
Speaker 2: a few, I bet or one hundred thousand questions.

676
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 3: But this is a case we will be following as

677
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 3: it expands. The Alexander twins are also charged with aggravated

678
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 3: sex abuse by and there are many victims coming forward

679
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: in many different lawsuits.

680
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: Wow so and it's all, are they all in Florida,

681
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: all these victims? Do you know? We we can dig

682
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: into it, but I try of wonder if they are.

683
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 2: And also, you know, we want to talk about in Cells,

684
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 2: which is you know, being connected to Brian Coburger. He's

685
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: the man who has now taken full of responsibility air

686
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 2: quotes to the Idaho college murders. And it's been a

687
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 2: shocking week. But we want to now go deeper, not

688
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 2: just report on the crime, but sort of the why

689
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: not the who, the why, And you know that's a

690
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 2: big topics to be but I think all week and

691
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 2: certainly tonight as well, we're going to start digging into

692
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 2: in cells, which is close to our hearts, and Body

693
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 2: is going to sort of teach us about the dark web,

694
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: which is the scariest place ever.

695
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so my friend Michelle shout out Michelle, Michelle, she

696
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: just texted me. I told her to leave a talk back,

697
00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: but I don't think she can at the moment. But

698
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: she said this exactly Body. All of us teachers of

699
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 1: all boys are working hard to counter that tape culture.

700
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: Now it's important to know Michelle is a teacher in

701
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: Florida and she teaches at an all boys school and

702
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: she it's middle school. By the way, she's a saint. Idea, Michelle,

703
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: you have no idea. It breaks my heart. She has

704
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: to make Amazon wish lists of things that she needs

705
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: to teach, you know, our future generations. It's she's she's incredible.

706
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: She's a science teacher. I love it. I love it.

707
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,439
Speaker 1: But so it's good to know though, that teachers are

708
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: you know, educated on this already, right, that she already

709
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: knows about, she already knows about in cells. She already is,

710
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: you know, recognizing what a problem it is, and that

711
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 1: it's affecting her students. That's interesting.

712
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's so pervasive. And even a friend of mine

713
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 3: was talking and their child goes to what you would

714
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 3: call a really nice school and it's also middle school.

715
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 3: And what a lot of the boys were saying and repeating,

716
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 3: is your body my choice? Woo so and yes, these

717
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 3: are twelve and thirteen and fourteen times.

718
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: And by the way, look when you're twelve and thirteen.

719
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: I'm not a therapist, but I would have to assume,

720
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 2: you know, people are repeating what they're hearing. Nobody really

721
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: has the layered, you know, real sense of what that means,

722
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: you know, their brains aren't there yet or we know

723
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 2: on people, Yeah, you just sort of like repeat a

724
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 2: curse word without actually meaning the understanding, the intention.

725
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: So I'm not minimizing it.

726
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, thank goodness for Saint Michelle's who are

727
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 2: you know, digging in and doing God's work for us. Also,

728
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 2: if you haven't seen the Netflix series, I think it's

729
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 2: Netflix the it's called Adolescence.

730
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: It's a tough watch, tough watch, important stuff.

731
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 2: Though really well executed, incredibly acting. I mean, it's a

732
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 2: scripted series. It's not a documentary based on true events.

733
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 2: It's like a scripted look and frankly it's a look

734
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: into inceels, right so, and it's young and it's heart wrenching,

735
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 2: and the spirit is everybody should be watching Adolescens despite

736
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: its dark content.

737
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: You know with their young men that they're real and

738
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: it's in you know, we're going to get into it

739
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: in a little a little bit later, but you know

740
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: in cells are it's a very sad situation, right You

741
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 1: want to you don't want your kid to be sad.

742
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: You don't want your kid to be your child to

743
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: be you know this mentally entrenched in this subculture that

744
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: basically says, you know that they're they're not good enough

745
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: or they're not you know, whatever enough. So you you

746
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: do want to recognize it, not only so they don't come,

747
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: you know, violent against women, but you don't want, you

748
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: don't your kid to end up this way, you know.

749
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: So it's important that we get into the stuff so

750
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: that even mothers can start recognizing these things, thankfully.

751
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 2: Especially Oh well, listen, we're going to talk about in

752
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 2: cells in the deepest way. I know, we say that

753
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: word a lot, but we're actually going to describe to

754
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: you what that is.

755
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: So stay with us.

756
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: Next segment, we're talking to Tate Brothers, the Alexander Brothers.

757
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 2: This is true Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime all

758
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 2: the time. Welcome back to true crime Tonight on iHeartRadio.

759
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: We are talking true crime all the time. By the way,

760
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 2: thank you for watching our documentary The Idaho Student Murders,

761
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 2: dropped this weekend on Peacock number one in the country,

762
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 2: so we hope you'll check it out. Such an important

763
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 2: unpack of this hideous case. You know, Brian Coberger, if

764
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: you haven't heard pled guilty this week after two and

765
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 2: a half years of saying he didn't do it, and

766
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 2: we were all real caught off guard. So it was

767
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 2: a race to the finish line. And we're very grateful

768
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 2: that the documentary is out there. I had to say,

769
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful to watch.

770
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 1: I have to say something. I have nothing. I have

771
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the documentary, all right, I have

772
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. But I want to tell you,

773
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: as somebody who knows the case really well inside and out,

774
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: every every minute that happened, I am happy to recommend

775
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: your documentary to all my friends who are asking me

776
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: what is this Idaho case? I want to know more

777
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: about it, who have never known anything about the case,

778
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: they can watch this documentary. It is so victim forward,

779
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: right it has to be, and it goes into detail

780
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: about maybe what happened that night in a really respectful

781
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: I mean as respectful as possible. And I'm very proud

782
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: to know you and I think you guys did a

783
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: great job.

784
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 2: First of all, I'm so grateful because I was secretly

785
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 2: worried about you know, you seeing it, both of you

786
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 2: for that matter. It's great in terms of you know,

787
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: we're all very close to this case. You know, Courtney

788
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: is the voice of the Idaho Massacre, the podcast which

789
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: the documentary is inspired by. So you know, we've been

790
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 2: all in it for a really long time, and everybody

791
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 2: at kat Gabe, who is with us here tonight, also

792
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: working behind the scenes. It was a little bit of

793
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 2: a race to the finish line because truthfully it wasn't

794
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 2: really supposed to air until the trial, and we were

795
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 2: sweating that too, because we didn't want it to influence

796
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 2: the trial in any way. We weren't looking to convict

797
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 2: Brian Coberger, the accused, which I feared was maybe happening

798
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: in the press. You know, it's you know, it was

799
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: a very frenzied case and we wanted to of course

800
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 2: always be very victim forward.

801
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: That's sort of the spirit of all of us here.

802
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 2: And once that broke and he confessed, it was a

803
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 2: really long week getting it to the drop.

804
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: So the drop, I say that like, I'm you know,

805
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 1: so cool. So that's a streamers call. It was just drop.

806
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 2: So I say that with like kind of cringe, but

807
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: I don't know how else to say it. But you know,

808
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 2: work with me here, bear with me, and I hope

809
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 2: you'll check it out. It's on Peacock and also, you know,

810
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 2: I have a listen to the podcasts. There's two seasons,

811
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: and we'll also be doing a podcast with iHeart. Of course,

812
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 2: it's called the Idaho Massacre, and you know, sort of

813
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: following the aftermath of this since sort of unpacking sort

814
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: of not the who done it, but really the why

815
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 2: done it? And I know that's a really unknowable thing today,

816
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 2: but you know, as of now, we are digging in

817
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 2: in a very meaningful way and.

818
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 1: New information's coming out.

819
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 2: Right, So you know, Boddy, you just said that Brian Coburger,

820
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 2: who's now you know, likely never going to walk out

821
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 2: of prison again, that his family, who is you know,

822
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: by all accounts, very loving, and his sister's speaking out,

823
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 2: and again it's a tough spot. These are tough spots

824
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 2: to be in as human beings, and I hope everybody

825
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 2: is giving grace to the family on all sides, even

826
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 2: Brian Coburger. Like listen, they were very loving, well.

827
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: And really quick. I don't think we've heard from the sister.

828
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: It's just there's a lot of online chatter and I

829
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: just want to make clear this is not substantiated in

830
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: any way. There's just a lot you know, I've been

831
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,439
Speaker 1: talking about the sister for a hot minute about how

832
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: it's possible maybe she alerted the FBI, because you know,

833
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: the bowl went out, he bought the knife, he was

834
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: looking for sheets and knife again after the murders on

835
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: the family account. You know, there's all these things that

836
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: might have set off alarm bells with somebody in the family,

837
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: and that's why he flew out to Seattle and so.

838
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 3: But again, just for people who are joined, Just for

839
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 3: people who are just joining us. The family bodies referring

840
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 3: to as the family of Brian Kolberger, who has now

841
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 3: pled guilty. He changed his plea after a year and

842
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 3: a half. He pled guilty to murdering for University of

843
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 3: Idaho's students Kelly Gonsalvez, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Shapin.

844
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 1: I think two and a half years. Even it's even

845
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: longer than that.

846
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: Right, it's been a while, right, he's been And listen,

847
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 2: we were really nervous about what if he was innocent. Yes,

848
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: there was a lot of mounting information against him, and

849
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: the evidence was not looking good. You know, I'm a

850
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: little bit always worried about the media pouncing and you know,

851
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: convicting people prior to the trial. So we were really,

852
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 2: really really sweating that and making sure we were doing

853
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 2: justice for the victims and their families, but also to

854
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: his family because they were standing by him and he

855
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: claimed as innocent, and that is not an easy spot

856
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 2: to be in if you're a sibling. Again, I'm not

857
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: saying that this is exactly what happens. I do not

858
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 2: know this in the Coburger family, but just going there

859
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: for the imagination tour of it. If you're an older

860
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 2: sister of somebody who's been accused of something extremely horrible

861
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: who says he didn't do it, do you get an inkling?

862
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 2: Do you have a sixth sense? Do you have a

863
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 2: spidy sense? But maybe harder?

864
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: Do you act on that?

865
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: Do you ship off authorities? And like where do you

866
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: put that in your heart? Like, my heart really is

867
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: broken for the sisters and his mother and his father.

868
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 2: Those are not easy spots. We don't have all that information.

869
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 2: So this is an assertion. This is me you know

870
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 2: in heads that I'm not positive about, but it is

871
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 2: something that I have a lot of compassion for because

872
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 2: you know, that is a spot that nobody wants to

873
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 2: be in either Let alone the victims' families, Let alone

874
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: to know that there are victims families that are devastated

875
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 2: because of something that a family member of yours committed,

876
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: and you know, like Sophie's choice, we never want to

877
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: have the.

878
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 1: Ripple effects of this will.

879
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 3: I mean, they go so far beyond the four victims,

880
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: their classmates, their friends, their families, as you mentioned, the

881
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 3: Coburgers family, their livelihoods, right, college culture. I mean people,

882
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 3: people change, people change schools because they could not be

883
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 3: there any longer. The lives of students who knew or

884
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 3: didn't know the victims were so impacted they had to

885
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 3: physically remove themselves and change the university.

886
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: That's right.

887
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so true. You don't think about it, but

888
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: you know, we've covered this really extensively. Check out the

889
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: podcast too, please. Courtney Armstrong is the voice of it

890
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 2: and does an extraordinary job. And we get to make

891
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 2: that together and body is on it all the time.

892
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 2: It's like it's a deep dive. And you know, that

893
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: is something that we shouldn't take for granted that the

894
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 2: Idaho University campus, this this horrible night occurred off campus,

895
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: at off campus housing. But you know, imagine people are

896
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 2: murdered at the school you're in and you're a parent

897
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: sending your kids there to have this extraordinary, fun, lighthearted,

898
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 2: smart experience, you know, on the eve of the real world,

899
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 2: right like life hasn't totally started yet. And then you're

900
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 2: a student and a massacre occurs. How scary and mostly

901
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 2: because this you know PhD criminology student decided to take

902
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 2: matters into his own hand. The ripples. To your point, Courtney,

903
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 2: is it's hard to imagine.

904
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're listening to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'mbody

905
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: move in here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker and

906
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: we are just unpacking the headlines with Brian Coberger and

907
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: we're about to get into p Diddy. If you have

908
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: a question or an opinion, give us a call at

909
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: eight eight eight thirty one Crime or use the talkbacks

910
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio. So we know that Brian Coberger to

911
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: wrap that up, Brian Coberg Plood guilty last week, Courtney,

912
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: Is that right? Correct? Plood guilty? And what's the update

913
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: for Diddy?

914
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 3: So Diddy, who Didty's case also is done aside from sentencing,

915
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 3: So catch anyone up did. He was charge in Manhattan

916
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 3: Federal Court with five counts of racketeering, two counts of

917
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 3: sex trafficking by force and fraud and coercion, and two

918
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 3: counts of transportation and that is for prostitution under the

919
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 3: Man Act. He has after seven weeks of a trial

920
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 3: and no one put up by the defense, literally not

921
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 3: a single person. He was found guilty of two of

922
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 3: the lesser charges. So each charge carries up to ten

923
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 3: years in prison. And now we're waiting not just for sentencing,

924
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 3: but to hear when the sentencing will happen.

925
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: I think they're going to go soft on him.

926
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 2: I really do you think soft means walk Now? There's

927
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 2: two sides to that, right, let's just unpack that. The

928
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: one side is were they soft on him when they

929
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: threw him in the Sprooklin Detention Center to await trial

930
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 2: for close to a year for what is now a

931
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 2: walk away by at least the big charge, which was

932
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 2: the racketeering charge that was going to potentially give him

933
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 2: life without parole. That's pretty intense. Now the charges that

934
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 2: he has been found guilty on have a potential sentencing

935
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 2: of what twenty It's never going to happen ten years each.

936
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 2: If you stack those back to back in the worst

937
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: case scenario, all things Diddy, that's a twenty year sentence.

938
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 2: Our inside sourcing, which nobody's a psychic, so take this

939
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 2: with the spirit it's intended. Inside sourcing would suggest he's

940
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,479
Speaker 2: probably going to look at ten to fourteen months. There's

941
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 2: also probably some time served. If you're Diddy, it's a win,

942
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 2: it's a big win. Actually, you didn't get to go

943
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: home on bail because you know, you do have a

944
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 2: history violence, and you're very well connected and have the money.

945
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 2: To Courtney's point earlier in the show, to you know

946
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,399
Speaker 2: you have the money to do all kinds of things.

947
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 2: I guess that's the takeaway. Void is money talk. Oh man,

948
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 2: If you're accused and you can't afford a good lawyer,

949
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 2: you're screwed.

950
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 3: Or ten in a thousand lawyers, ten at a cost

951
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 3: of over one hundred thousand dollars. Again, it's his money,

952
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 3: but a day over. That was the estimate. But think

953
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 3: how big this case was. It was back in March

954
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four, Homeland Security rated his homes in

955
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 3: Los Angeles, Miami, and New York. He was arrested in Manhattan,

956
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 3: and I mean, this was a huge undertaking by the

957
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 3: federal government. And I think you're probably right, Stephanie about

958
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 3: the sentencing, but I hold out hope that the judge

959
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 3: will go long on the sentencing. I mean, he a

960
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 3: didn't seem to be in a hurry to give the

961
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 3: defense what they wanted, which was sentencing hearing tomorrow. He

962
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 3: b used the defense's own verse gage against them, saying, listen,

963
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 3: you acknowledged he's a violent guy. Well we're gonna go

964
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 3: ahead and keep him where he is for now and

965
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 3: not let him go home.

966
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 1: Good point. I don't know that's a good point. That's

967
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: a very good point.

968
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 2: And also there was a victim statement that in the

969
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 2: eleventh hour, when we were waiting to find out if

970
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 2: Diddy was in fact going to be released on bail

971
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 2: that night, yep, he would have been home in bed

972
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 2: before the weekend. Cassie Ventura and one of the other

973
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 2: victims also wrote a very I guess, impactful letter to

974
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 2: the judge basically saying, I am now at risk, and

975
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 2: by the way, aren't they ever anybody who came up?

976
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: And I think they're still at risk even with him

977
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: of course, yes he is. And now there's all this nonsense.

978
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,280
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say nonsense because it's just in my opinion,

979
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 2: and I know I'm not alone in the world. But

980
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 2: I see a lot of women clapping back of like

981
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: these girls had to come in, and I'm like, what

982
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 2: plan we on or anybody deserves to get beaten up

983
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: like that.

984
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: I don't understand it. I know that's how it was convicted. Yeah,

985
00:50:59,440 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: I know.

986
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 2: It's because there's loop that I can't get out of.

987
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 2: I feel like that judge is going but now I'm

988
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 2: back in it.

989
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: It just makes me crazy. This is not okay. You

990
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 1: detox for the whole weekend on all this, and now

991
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,399
Speaker 1: you're raged up again.

992
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 2: Right, I feel enraged again. I'm back in to tell

993
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: me and coaches, I'm back in, Diddy.

994
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: What's your thought on the judge? Body? I just listen.

995
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: The judge is going to do whatever the law provides.

996
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: But I just can't escape the feeling that it's like

997
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: without the Rico charge, all this is just like trumped

998
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,879
Speaker 1: up charges, like it's just low no, even though judge

999
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 1: found him guilty, I just feel that I don't know.

1000
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: I'm very jaded right now. Okay, about about how you

1001
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 1: know justice is moving? Okay, we got a plea deal

1002
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: in Coburger and now this Diddy no charge charge. We're

1003
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: talking all things in cells. What a scary word. So

1004
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: in cells.

1005
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 2: Elliott Rogers, a famous in cell in Santa Barbara, Brian Coburger,

1006
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 2: although not a proclaimed in cell member, there's certainly some

1007
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 2: crossover that's been incredibly debated and investigated, which we intend

1008
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 2: on doing more of body. This is something very close

1009
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 2: to your heart, all of ours. Frankly, can you, in

1010
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: its most basic way, describe for us what an in

1011
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 2: cell actually is.

1012
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 1: It's such a complicated it's such a complicated subculture and

1013
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,479
Speaker 1: it is hard to like kind of condense it down

1014
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: to like this little, short, cute little paragraph. But I'm

1015
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: gonna do literally the best I can. You've probably heard

1016
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: this term in cell tossed around online, but what does

1017
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: it actually mean. It stands for in voluntarily celibate, and

1018
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: it describes people, usually men. There are female in cells

1019
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: are called fem cells, But for the purposes of this discussion,

1020
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: we're just going to be talking about the men, because

1021
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: we're talking about in cell specifically, and these men and

1022
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: they're usually young I would say, in their twenties, and

1023
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,720
Speaker 1: they start this ideology in their teens. But it's usually

1024
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: men who feel like they can't get into romantic or

1025
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 1: sexual relationships no matter how hard they try. The term

1026
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: actually started out in the nineteen nineties as kind of

1027
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: like a poor group created by a woman of all things,

1028
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: try and help others who felt lonely and isolated. Like

1029
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,720
Speaker 1: it started out really kind of like uh wholesome, yeah,

1030
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: you know, but over time, especially because of the Internet,

1031
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,879
Speaker 1: you know, the meaning shifted. Well. Today, when people talk

1032
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: about in cells, they're usually referring to a specific online

1033
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: community that's taken on a much darker tone. Now, these

1034
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,839
Speaker 1: modern in cell groups often gather on like forums, like reddits,

1035
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: four chan and like private you know, abultant.

1036
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: Words kind of not why do I find the dark

1037
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 2: web that I don't know two words in the language

1038
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 2: right now? I'm like, I sound archaic as I say

1039
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 2: that I recognize, but like, ooh, the dark web, Like

1040
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 2: what's that?

1041
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: You know, what's crazy stuff is that these you know,

1042
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: these conversations are totally outlandish, and but they're they're emboldened

1043
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: enough that they don't have to use dark web. Bit

1044
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: dark web, you know technology to have these discussions. They're

1045
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: having these discussions on the open Internet.

1046
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 2: Right, and they're a little nameless and faceless, so they

1047
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 2: can let a rip without any they can cut a refect.

1048
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. So a lot of the conversations in these forums

1049
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: are filled with like rage and anger, especially towards women

1050
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 1: that they see attractive, socially successful, you know that even men.

1051
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: So the men are referred to as chads and the

1052
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: women are referred to as stacy's. And these are the

1053
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: men and women that are successful in life. They're dating,

1054
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: they're having sexual intercourse with people like picture Barbie and Ken. Yes,

1055
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: that's that's the prototype in some ways, right of the

1056
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: chads and the staceis yes. And they consider themselves like

1057
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: the nice guy, you know, like when you think of

1058
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: an insult, think of somebody that thinks of themselves as

1059
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: nice and like but almost entitled to women, right and.

1060
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 2: Mom boy air quotes, air quotes, air quotes, but like

1061
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 2: maybe the momage boy in the basement on the online

1062
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 2: chat group while Mom's making muffins and is like, I

1063
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 2: don't know why he won't get a job.

1064
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: Right, So the confident guys who get you know, the

1065
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: Stacey's are the chads. And in many of these communities,

1066
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: they believe that they're destined to be alone forever because

1067
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 1: of how they look, and they often blame society, women

1068
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,280
Speaker 1: or genetics. And it's a really bleak, you know, self

1069
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: enforcing worldview because they just you know, they're self sustaining,

1070
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: because they're just talking amongst each other and building themselves up.

1071
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: And it's important to know that not every inseel is

1072
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: going to turn out to be violent, all right. Not

1073
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: everyone is going to take out this rage on women

1074
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: from not loving them on other on women. Not everyone's

1075
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 1: going to do this. But there are some interesting studies

1076
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: coming out about who in cels are. The average age

1077
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: is the mid twenties, around twenty six years old. They

1078
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,919
Speaker 1: usually live with their parents or their grandparents. Twenty five

1079
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,240
Speaker 1: percent do live alone. Only four percent of them are

1080
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 1: are employed full time.

1081
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, that's four no job, Seventy five percent living

1082
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 2: with mom and dad or grandparents. And by the way,

1083
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 2: post COVID again, I'm saying to be judging to learn

1084
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 2: post COVID, everybody was like locked in their basements. If

1085
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 2: you were already experiencing some level of loneliness or you

1086
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: were feeling disenfranchised. Now add you know, a year and

1087
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 2: a half, two years of isolation to the you know equation,

1088
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 2: there's an uptick.

1089
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,800
Speaker 1: And I think it's obvious why. Yeah, when when COVID happened,

1090
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: it was like kind of like the pressure cooker. It

1091
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 1: really kind of like expanded this movement. And it's interesting,

1092
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: contrary to like a lot of stereotypes too, most lean

1093
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 1: slightly left. This isn't like a right wing ideology of

1094
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: any kind. It's it leans a little left. Fifty eight

1095
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: percent of them are white, forty two percent of people

1096
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:34,880
Speaker 1: of color. Seventy three percent report moderate to severe depression, which.

1097
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: Like that's the whole country to that, you know again

1098
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 2: post COVID, especially you know, mental health, big ticket item.

1099
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very Yeah that so that stat is not

1100
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 3: surprising you because really it is. I mean that the

1101
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 3: deepest loneliness I'd have to imagine and having that mirrored back.

1102
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: And they blame it on women, Yes, for women not

1103
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: wanting them. You know, they're not socially attractive, or they're

1104
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: awkward in some way, or you know, or there's excuse

1105
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: after excuse after excuse, and so they feel, you know,

1106
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: that women are responsible for their depression and their loneliness,

1107
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: and that turns that can turn into rage, which can

1108
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: turn violent. And we're gonna get right into you know,

1109
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: one more thing too. Forty eight percent scored at the

1110
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: highest level on loneliness scales at arica alert dot org,

1111
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 1: which is interesting, Wow, my intent loneliness scale.

1112
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 2: I think the Brian Coburger case, the Idaho student murders,

1113
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 2: you know, please watch on Peacock. I think it's a

1114
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 2: real look at loneliness and it's real case scenario. You know,

1115
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 2: you know that he was an odd guy with very

1116
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 2: little social interaction and friends. Not that that justifies it, obviously,

1117
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 2: but if we're trying to unpack how to prevent these

1118
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 2: types of isolated killers on the on the loose or

1119
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 2: in the making, it's important stuff that we talk about.

1120
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 3: It's vitally important. This is Truecram's Night on iHeartRadio. I'm

1121
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 3: Courtney Armstrong here as always with Body Moven and Stephanie Leidecker.

1122
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 3: We're talking about in cells and we want to know

1123
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 3: your thoughts. So please give us a call. We're at

1124
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 3: eighty eight three one Crime or you can hit us

1125
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 3: on the talkbacks. It's on the iHeartRadio app. You just

1126
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 3: go there, You click on the red microphone in the

1127
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 3: upper right hand corner, leave a message, and you're.

1128
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: On the show.

1129
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 3: So body earlier you mentioned and it is true, not remotely.

1130
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 3: Every in cell or a person who subscribes to those

1131
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 3: beliefs is violent. But I know we're going to get

1132
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 3: to Elliott Rodgers in one second. Who does is the

1133
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 3: epitome of the worst that someone could do in this situation.

1134
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 3: But this was many years ago, and Stephanie and I

1135
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 3: we were doing a ton of research on in cells.

1136
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 1: And it really down a rabbit hole.

1137
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 2: We were trying to make a TV show about it

1138
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 2: at the time time and frankly, the feedback was it

1139
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 2: was too dark.

1140
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh really yeah. At the time we were a

1141
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: little ahead of this.

1142
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 2: We learned in real time and we were actually.

1143
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: Really down the path.

1144
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 3: Yes, but there was an I will try and circle

1145
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 3: back and remember this for later this week. But people

1146
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 3: were learned. People were saying, literally, this is the hate

1147
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 3: group to watch next, the potentially most dangerous pre COVID.

1148
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: This was pre COVID.

1149
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 2: This was like my memories, a little muddy COVID my memories,

1150
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 2: Why don't know?

1151
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: It was actually early stages of COVID. Yeah, we will.

1152
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, in any case, absolutely a group to watch for

1153
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 3: potential violence.

1154
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely.

1155
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 3: And body, if you want to tell us about Elliott Rogers, Yeah.

1156
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: So Elliott Rogers he was a British American mass murderer

1157
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: who is known for killing six people and injuring fourteen

1158
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: others during the twenty fourteen Iila Vista killings. The murders

1159
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: he committed his suicide and his manifesto, of course, manifesto,

1160
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: of course, I'm immediately interested have been cited as an

1161
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: early influence into the inceell In manuscript, you know, culture subculture,

1162
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: and you know, his his manifesto was like one hundred

1163
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 1: and thirty seven pages. It was titled My Twisted World,

1164
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: The Story of Elliott Rogers. And I wrote like this

1165
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: big long document that it gave to the researchers this

1166
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: morning when we were talking about doing this, and I

1167
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: was reading through it again because I had, you know,

1168
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: written it so long ago, and I was just remembering

1169
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: everything that he did. And you know, we only have

1170
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: a few minutes left, but this guy did so much,

1171
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: and I don't know that we're going to be able

1172
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: to unpack all of it. So it's something that I'd

1173
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: like to continue if we could.

1174
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, we have, Like I think this should be

1175
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 2: our next big deep dive.

1176
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it might be so. In the weeks leading up

1177
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: to this happened back in twenty fourteen, he wrote a

1178
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: manifesto after he you know, gunned down these women outside

1179
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: of a sorority house. He had planned on breaking in,

1180
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: and you know, he didn't, and he killed his two roommates,

1181
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: which by the way, is a whole nother story. But

1182
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: he killed his two roommates, then drove over to the

1183
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 1: sorority house and he was going to take his revenge

1184
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: out on these beautiful sorority girls, which again, you know

1185
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 1: Cooke Ryan Coberger also did, right. So that's just kind

1186
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: of a paralone admission by his own admission. Yes, important

1187
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: to note Elliott believed that he was going to purify

1188
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: the world and it's necessary to remove love and sex

1189
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 1: from the human existence. In fact, prior to him doing this,

1190
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: he would often attack couples that were, you know, maybe

1191
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: on the beach holding hands or in their car, maybe

1192
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 1: making out very very sketchy stuff, and he would like

1193
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: throw coffee at them. He would just if you were

1194
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 1: a woman and a man in love and showing it publicly,

1195
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 1: he would it would just anger him to the point

1196
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: where he would need to toss things at you enrage in

1197
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 1: race and like absolutely enraged. He stated women should not

1198
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: be given any rights and that their wickedness needed to

1199
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: be contained to avoid the risk of humanity falling into degeneracy.

1200
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: Elliott said women's refusal to accept him was a declaration

1201
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: of war, and he hoped his attacks would reshape humanity

1202
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: like it's but here's the thing, it kind of did

1203
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 1: because in cells now there was a guy in Canada

1204
01:01:59,000 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 1: and his name escapes me.

1205
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what is his name? I know who you're

1206
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 2: referring to too. We'll come back to it, but I'm

1207
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 2: back to know what you mean.

1208
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: But he cited Saint Elliott Rogers as his as his

1209
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: motivation for carrying out the attacks and killed I think

1210
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: he killed half a dozen or more people in Canada

1211
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 1: in an in cell attack.

1212
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 3: You know.

1213
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 1: So Elliott is really kind of the grounding point for

1214
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: in cells. They refer to him as as Saint Elliott

1215
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: Roger and when they say they're going to attack women,

1216
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: they say they're going to er her.

1217
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 3: He is absolutely revered you're exactly right, body, I mean,

1218
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 3: he is on candles, he is on right. It's insane.

1219
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 3: And I think the Toronto it was a van attack

1220
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen. Ye is that what you're referring to?

1221
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 2: Exactly Courtney, And yes, my goodness, this is a crazy topic.

1222
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 3: But coming up next, there's a little bit of good news.

1223
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 3: Texas changed a law that prevents that was preventing victims

1224
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 3: of sexual violence from getting justice. So that has now

1225
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 3: been changed. We're going to get back into Brian Coberger

1226
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 3: and Elliott Rodgers parallels. Keep it here True Crime Tonight.

1227
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1228
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 2: true crime all the time, and we're doing a very

1229
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 2: deep unpack about in cells. If you haven't heard this

1230
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 2: word before, it's spelt I n C E l S

1231
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 2: and it's it's kind of a scary catchphrase. And you'll

1232
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 2: start to hear more about it. Because, first of all,

1233
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 2: there is that scripted series it's on Netflix right it

1234
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 2: is called Adolescence, And we just put out The Idaho

1235
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 2: Student Murders, which is based on these recent developments of

1236
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 2: the tragedy in Idaho and for college students who were

1237
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 2: slaughtered by Brian Coberg. We can say that officially since

1238
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 2: he has changed his plea to guilty after two and

1239
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 2: a half years of saying he was not. And there's

1240
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 2: always been this like low key chatter since we started

1241
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 2: in this case. We also make the podcast The Idaho

1242
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 2: Massacre that he was an in cell, and frankly, we

1243
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 2: were really down this path and we were never able

1244
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 2: to substantiate it despite the very obvious underpinnings of what

1245
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 2: an inceel is. And to this day Brian Coberger hasn't

1246
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 2: come out and said he was an in cell, but

1247
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,479
Speaker 2: because of his recent admission of guilt, we all really

1248
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 2: think it's important that we start unpacking this so body.

1249
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 1: What is the basics of an inceul So an inceell

1250
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 1: stands for our involuntary celibate, and they basically have never

1251
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: had relations with the opposite sex, the sex that they're

1252
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: attracted to, and they blame women for that. They blame

1253
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 1: the Staceys of the world, which they call these unattainable women,

1254
01:04:57,120 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 1: for not showing them the attention. They're kind, they're generous,

1255
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 1: they're special, just like these chads, who by the way,

1256
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 1: are successful, attractive men that the women are attracted to there.

1257
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 1: They blame their loneliness on women, and some are taking

1258
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: this rage out in extreme and violent ways. And it's

1259
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 1: possible that Brian Coberger might may have been an insuel.

1260
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: And you know, we've been talking about this for a while, right,

1261
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 1: but you know we didn't. We've always been like, you knows,

1262
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: he's not being tried for being an inceel. He's being

1263
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 1: tried for murderer. But now that he's you know, admitted

1264
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:35,439
Speaker 1: to this, I think it's safe to say that he's

1265
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 1: not going to really care so much if he's being

1266
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 1: called an insuel. He's being called a murderer, you know,

1267
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 1: like that's you know, he is a murderer. He is

1268
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: a murderer. Right, So you know, Brian Coberger has never

1269
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: said he's an in cell, but people around him have

1270
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 1: alluded to. You know, I here's one thing I want

1271
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 1: to say real quick. I kind of wish Bill Thompson

1272
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: was a young, attractive women. And the reason I say

1273
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 1: that is if Bill Thompson while he was up there

1274
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 1: reading the plea, you know, like what Brian Coberger did

1275
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 1: that day, he did as Bill Thompson is a prosecutor,

1276
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: and he kind of looks like a tall thinner Santa Claus. Right,

1277
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 1: But if he was a young, beautiful prosecutor, I can't

1278
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: help but think that Brian Coberger, if Bill Thompson had

1279
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 1: gotten something wrong in the recount of what happened that night,

1280
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: Brian Cogberger would have made facial expressions like rolling his

1281
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: eyes at her. There would have been some indication. Because

1282
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: the hostility that these in cels have against beautiful women,

1283
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 1: especially successful ones, I think it would seepot of his pores.

1284
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 2: It's so interesting that you say that about Brian Coburger

1285
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 2: because frankly, he was raised by older sisters and a

1286
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 2: lovely mother by all accounts, and he had a sister

1287
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 2: who was a therapist and another sister who was used

1288
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 2: to be an actress who were fired from their jobs.

1289
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 2: So like, this is a guy who was raised in

1290
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 2: many ways by women. On its nose, right, we're not

1291
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 2: making any assertions here, you would think he would have

1292
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 2: more respect for women.

1293
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: So many stories of even in your documentary, the young

1294
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: woman student who didn't want to shore face, you know,

1295
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 1: she was saying that he had an aura about him.

1296
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 1: I'm sus saying I'm being you know, I'm paraphrasing. No,

1297
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: it's but he had an aura about him, and you know,

1298
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:24,840
Speaker 1: the W s U disciplinary was coming down on him

1299
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 1: for these things. I mean, this is a document women.

1300
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 1: He did not like women. He was that guy.

1301
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 2: He didn't like popular women also, so I guess that's

1302
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 2: the in cel DNA, right, It's right, it's Barbie, it's

1303
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 2: the girls. And again we're not making this assertion, but

1304
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 2: if you look at the Idaho victim, all gorgeous, you're

1305
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 2: the most beautiful, happy in love even you know Zanna

1306
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 2: and Ethan. Ethan was the most handsome man and beloved,

1307
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 2: and you know, they were all successful. And you know,

1308
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 2: if you're if your aunt I that and you're you know,

1309
01:07:56,920 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 2: a nerdy guy living in your mama's basement who is

1310
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 2: not feeling confident in their own skin, this becomes potentially

1311
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 2: a little bit of a rage quest. I think we

1312
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 2: actually have a call a talkback right now, let's jump

1313
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 2: to that.

1314
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 6: I think that one of the appeals of in cell

1315
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 6: culture and red pilling in general for people is that

1316
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 6: right now, with the Internet, there's such a focus on

1317
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 6: terminology and checking boxes to be a good person, and

1318
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 6: a lot of people feel really exhausted by that.

1319
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:23,679
Speaker 4: So when someone gives them an.

1320
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:25,640
Speaker 6: Option for here's how to be the best person you

1321
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 6: can be and it doesn't feel like so much work,

1322
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 6: they're really drawn to that because they can tell that

1323
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 6: something's wrong in their life, that things aren't flicking, that

1324
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 6: their mental health is bad, and in cell culture tells

1325
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 6: them they can just relax.

1326
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 2: I'm so happy to hear this conversation, and thank you

1327
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 2: for sending that talk back, because it's a really interesting perspective,

1328
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 2: and perspective is very powerful. I think the word fatigue

1329
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 2: and tired of not knowing where you fit in in

1330
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,640
Speaker 2: this world is sort of at its core. What are

1331
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 2: the DNA issues of in cells?

1332
01:08:57,080 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 1: Right?

1333
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: Like, you're feeling unsupported, You're feeling unlike by women of

1334
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 2: the opposite sex if you're a guy, and rather than

1335
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,639
Speaker 2: getting out and meeting people, you're locked in a basement

1336
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 2: on the web and surrounding yourself in conversations with other

1337
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 2: like minded unpopular and I say this in air quotes

1338
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:17,719
Speaker 2: unpopular people.

1339
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she mentioned a term red pilling, and that's

1340
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 1: a red pilling means so that's a really yes in fact,

1341
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,120
Speaker 1: so it's an important term to know if you're talking

1342
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 1: about in cells. It's a metaphor and it's borrowed from

1343
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 1: the matrix, and it represents accepting the uncomfortable truth. You

1344
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,599
Speaker 1: take the red pill for the truth or the blue pill,

1345
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:40,599
Speaker 1: and you stay in a state of ignorance. All right,

1346
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 1: If you take the red pill, it's basically your awakening

1347
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 1: to the truth. The you're awakening to the truth about

1348
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:51,920
Speaker 1: social dynamics, particularly regarding sex and relationships. So when in

1349
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: Cells say red pilling, they're talking about how they awoke

1350
01:09:56,439 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 1: to the uncomfortable truth that they are not desirable and

1351
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 1: they are angry about it.

1352
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:03,759
Speaker 2: And by the way, I guess this kind of speaks

1353
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 2: to the idea of, hey, the nice guys don't win

1354
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 2: in the end. It's like, you know, women like bad

1355
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:12,679
Speaker 2: boys and muscleheads, and like you can be a sweet, nice,

1356
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 2: loving guy who has you know, the best of intentions,

1357
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 2: but because they're not manly enough or the girls overlook

1358
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:22,639
Speaker 2: them because they're just too nice.

1359
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:24,679
Speaker 1: And I think that's a valid feeling there.

1360
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say nice guys should finish last,

1361
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 2: and I hope that or shouldn't. Well, I guess if

1362
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 2: you're an insult and a nice guy if they don't

1363
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 2: really go hand in hand. That's sort of contradictory, right,

1364
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:36,440
Speaker 2: But I see the point, the red pilling.

1365
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 1: Of it all. Nice guys. This world could use some

1366
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 1: nice men, It really could. That's a fact. You're listening

1367
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 1: to Crime tonight.

1368
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 3: I'm Courtney Armstrong here with Stephanie Leideker and Body Moven

1369
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 3: and we are talking about in cels. We want to

1370
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 3: hear your thoughts. We're at eighty eight three one Crime

1371
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:55,680
Speaker 3: or Always. You can hit us on the talkbacks on

1372
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio app. So we're talking about, you know, these

1373
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 3: feelings that are evoked by going on the internet and

1374
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:05,759
Speaker 3: kind of in being comfortable I think was the word

1375
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 3: that the woman used, are easier and watching earlier today

1376
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 3: Elliott Rogers.

1377
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 1: Video Ellie Rod Yeah, yeah, Elliott Rogers. Jow remindable, remind

1378
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: people what the video is.

1379
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 3: So Elliott Rogers is self proclaimed in cell and this

1380
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:28,480
Speaker 3: happened in twenty fourteen. He went on a murderous rampage

1381
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:32,840
Speaker 3: and ended up killing himself and he targeted a sorority

1382
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 3: and the absolute rage. And he had done a video.

1383
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 3: He's sitting in his car and he it's about seven

1384
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:44,640
Speaker 3: minutes long and He talks about the fact that basically

1385
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 3: life is so unfair to him. He says, I forget

1386
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 3: if he was twenty one or twenty two, and he says,

1387
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 3: I have never had sex. It's completely unfair. People are

1388
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:59,479
Speaker 3: out there having a good time. Nobody wants to include me.

1389
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:03,680
Speaker 3: They are wrong and they will suffer. And throughout this

1390
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 3: he also is laughing. It really struck me at certain points,

1391
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 3: he laughs maniacally. I mean it's like an actual villain,

1392
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:14,799
Speaker 3: like a cartoon of a villain.

1393
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: Almost. It's very forced though, right, like almost fake, like

1394
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 1: practiced once or twice repost it, you know, he re recorded,

1395
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 1: you know how we you know, people are like, I

1396
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 1: didn't get that quite right.

1397
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like that was like we should post

1398
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 2: that on our website, by the way, just in case

1399
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 2: you want to play along, or you could very easily

1400
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 2: find it online.

1401
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's on YouTube. It's all the right place, you know.

1402
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 3: Back to the talk back, you know, I could see

1403
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:43,400
Speaker 3: a quote a comfort of knowing, Okay, I'm at least

1404
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:47,960
Speaker 3: not alone. I feel alone, but hey, there's like minded people,

1405
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 3: so maybe I'm not entirely alone, even if women won't

1406
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 3: pay attention to me, right you know, it's so complicated.

1407
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 1: So going back to Coburger quickly. You know, when he

1408
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: was teaching in the in the classes he taught, there

1409
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 1: were a lot of problems we were talking about, like

1410
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: he was under he got fired right for his behavior,

1411
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 1: and his behavior was directed at women. Yeah, walls were

1412
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 1: crazy closing in right. So one time, according to the

1413
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 1: New York Post, one time he followed a female student

1414
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 1: out to the door to her car, and other women

1415
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 1: complained he was discriminating against them, grading them worse than

1416
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:25,559
Speaker 1: the men, and so much so that WSU administration noticed

1417
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,800
Speaker 1: and the school began to issue him warnings about his

1418
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:31,800
Speaker 1: teaching position, which was funding his graduate program. That's right.

1419
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 1: So that's when it all be you know, kind of

1420
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 1: started crumpling for him. And then one of his classmates,

1421
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 1: Ben Roberts. Now Ben Roberts has been on I think

1422
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: like either a twenty twenty or a dateline, because I

1423
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 1: remember watching him say this one evening, Ben Roberts, he

1424
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 1: was a classmate, reluctantly accepted a ride from Coburger. Okay,

1425
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 1: now I'm reading directly from the post. He told Roberts

1426
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 1: in a conversation that he that went on for hours

1427
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 1: that women belonged in the kitchen and not the bedroom

1428
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 1: and certainly not the classroom. Then he roberts they were easy.

1429
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 1: He could walk into any social gathering and have any

1430
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,639
Speaker 1: of them he wanted sexually, which is interesting if he's

1431
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 1: an insul, because usually in Cells don't think they could.

1432
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 1: Which this is why it gives me pause to call

1433
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 1: him an insult directly, because he has these you know

1434
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 1: moments where he's like, oh, I could have anyone that

1435
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 1: I wanted, but.

1436
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:22,840
Speaker 2: He was talking to another man. That's true, you know,

1437
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 2: man being Machi Smo. Maybe he was sort of asserting

1438
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 2: his manliness and this was his stick, whether he really

1439
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:30,720
Speaker 2: believed it or not.

1440
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 3: And it goes back to body when you mentioned at

1441
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 3: the top of the show the ven diagram of Andrew

1442
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 3: Tate and in Cells.

1443
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 1: That's true. It could be something like that where he

1444
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:43,559
Speaker 1: shares a lot of the ideology like Andrew Tate, but

1445
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:47,839
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily an insul himself. That's that's incredibly so true.

1446
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,639
Speaker 2: We're going to continue talking about in Cells throughout the week,

1447
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 2: and it's going to be like the start of an

1448
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 2: ongoing conversation and an unpack. Also, I've been advised that

1449
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 2: I have to watch The Matrix before tomorrow, the movie

1450
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:03,080
Speaker 2: with Keanu Reeves. If you haven't watched it, apparently we

1451
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 2: are like.

1452
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:06,759
Speaker 1: It is not okay. So I'm for one. I'm gonna

1453
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 1: dip in.

1454
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 2: I know I have had to have watched this, and

1455
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 2: I love Cana Reeves, so it's on my watch list.

1456
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 2: Courtney's below Deck will take aside to below Deck too.

1457
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 1: Come on, I listen.

1458
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 2: It's it's already very late and we all have jobs

1459
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 2: in the days, so but it's on the list. So

1460
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:26,760
Speaker 2: the Matrix will got much watch. I think everybody we

1461
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 2: should all watch it so we can understand better.

1462
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 3: Red Pilling, I can't believe I haven't watched it either.

1463
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 3: It's like saying out loud, I've never seen Jaws?

1464
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:36,639
Speaker 1: How have you not seen Jows? How are we friends?

1465
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 1: I know added to the list.

1466
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 2: I feel like I secretly understand The Matrix and I've

1467
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:42,760
Speaker 2: seen enough.

1468
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 1: I thank you to kind of give you the stick.

1469
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 2: But I haven't really watched it in its entirety, so

1470
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 2: that won't happen past tomorrow.

1471
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 1: And you know what else.

1472
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:53,679
Speaker 2: The next week, we go Forensics with Joseph Scott Morgan

1473
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 2: unpacking the forensics and the Idaho massacre and the Idaho

1474
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:58,240
Speaker 2: student murders.

1475
01:15:58,280 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 1: Thank you for watching on.

1476
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 2: Peacock and we're going to be deep doing a deeper

1477
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 2: dive into Elliott Rodgers. Yeah, the infamous face man or

1478
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 2: frontman of in Cells.

1479
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:09,720
Speaker 1: I was going to.

1480
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:13,719
Speaker 3: Say one bit that we mentioned earlier, a tiny glimmer

1481
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 3: of hope exists, and Texas has officially closed a loophole

1482
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:23,800
Speaker 3: this year that made it very hard to impossible for

1483
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 3: victims of sexual assault to actually prosecute people. But that

1484
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 3: loophole has been closed. It's called the Summer Willis Act,

1485
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:39,599
Speaker 3: which is an unbelievably brave and powerful woman who without

1486
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 3: exaggeration crawled miles to go to the Federal building and

1487
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:48,040
Speaker 3: say this should be listened to and attention needs to

1488
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:51,720
Speaker 3: be paid to this issue. And so consent has now

1489
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 3: been redefined and ensures that a person who is incapacitated

1490
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 3: by alcohol or any substance, they cannot legally consent even

1491
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 3: if they volunt taroly consumed it or we're drugged unknowingly.

1492
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:06,440
Speaker 3: So previously there was a gap that if someone willingly

1493
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:10,479
Speaker 3: grabbed themselves a beer, it would go unpunished. So that's

1494
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:14,240
Speaker 3: a big loophole. I'm glad it's closed. Big ups to summer,

1495
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:16,680
Speaker 3: Willis for drawing attention to this.

1496
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, high five to summer. Good for Texas. And speaking

1497
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 1: of Texas, there's this flood. Our hearts are broken. Eighty

1498
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:26,559
Speaker 1: two eight. The death toll has just risen to eighty two.

1499
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 1: I just looked it up a second ago to make

1500
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,479
Speaker 1: sure I had the right amount. You know that that

1501
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:33,559
Speaker 1: camp mystic and all those children, and these are little babies,

1502
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 1: these are children.

1503
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 2: Little girl, Yeah nuggets, And for anyone who's still searching

1504
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:41,560
Speaker 2: for their loved ones, we're wishing a happier day tomorrow.

1505
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 2: And I think anybody listening right now if we could

1506
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 2: all just quickly close our eyes and send hearts and

1507
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:50,840
Speaker 2: prayers and love they need it. Yeah to crime tonight.

1508
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to end it on a sad note, but

1509
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:56,759
Speaker 2: it's important stuff. And we will be back tomorrow and

1510
01:17:57,120 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 2: the start of a new week, So God willing easier

1511
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:02,960
Speaker 2: days ahead. This is true crime tonight, true crime all

1512
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 2: the time. Please stay safe and we will see you tomorrow.