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Speaker 1: I had a friend come visit me, who I will

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Speaker 1: just say worked for one of the alphabet agencies. And

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Speaker 1: he came to our house and when my wife was

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Speaker 1: out of the room, he took me aside and he said, hey,

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Speaker 1: by the way, do you know that your phone is tapped?

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Speaker 1: And I thought, what do you mean? He said, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: there's five or six different wiretaps on this I can tell.

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Speaker 1: This is what I do.

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Speaker 2: Think about that somebody's telling you your phone is tapped.

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Speaker 2: We haven't even shot anything. We're not on the air.

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Speaker 2: It's curious about the selection of those four words we

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Speaker 2: are watching you. It's not like I'm watching you. It's we,

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Speaker 2: which raises a lot of questions. Who is this we?

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Speaker 2: Who would that be? I'm Brice Sable. Have you ever

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Speaker 2: wondered if there's a secret connection between Hollywood and UFOs?

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Speaker 1: And I'm Brent Friedman. You are listening to Sound, Light

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Speaker 1: and Frequency.

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Speaker 2: While preparing for this podcast. I've been going through all

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Speaker 2: my old files and I've found something.

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Speaker 1: And what we have learned is that paranoia strikes deep

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Speaker 1: for a very good reason.

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Speaker 2: The thing about doing this podcast Sound Light and Frequency

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Speaker 2: is that we've relied a lot on using our old

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Speaker 2: files and so forth to try to tell the story

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Speaker 2: of what happened during Dark Skies from ninety five to

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Speaker 2: ninety seven. Anybody who's worked a long time in Hollywood

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Speaker 2: certainly knows that you collect stuff. You collect scripts, you collect, transcripts,

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Speaker 2: show cuts, edits, everything, fan mail, photos, you name it,

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Speaker 2: You've got it. I've got boxes and boxes of it,

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Speaker 2: and I'm going through it, and have been going through

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Speaker 2: it since we started. I cannot compete with you, Bryce.

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Speaker 1: You probably have exponentially more stuff than I have in

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Speaker 1: terms of what you've collected. I started practicing letting go

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Speaker 1: about five years ago, which.

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Speaker 2: Has been very liberating.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, like I said, I probably have much less than

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Speaker 1: you with regards to even Dark Sky's memorabilia.

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Speaker 2: I wish you hadn't let go of so many things,

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Speaker 2: because there's gold in them there file boxes, Brent, and

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you something. One of them was, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you let go of it. I cannot imagine

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Speaker 2: you would have let go of your magic badge. Now

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Speaker 2: you said you did, did you like go of?

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Speaker 1: That was not a letting go, That was just a losing.

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Speaker 1: That was just a plain old incompetence I had that

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Speaker 1: for a long time. It used to be like hung

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Speaker 1: up on something in my office as just a reminder

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Speaker 1: of how fun those days were. And then it went missing,

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Speaker 1: like a number of things in my life, and I've

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Speaker 1: never found it. I should probably pay my daughter five

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars to go look for it, but honestly, I

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Speaker 1: cannot find it anywhere. And it's very upsetting because that

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Speaker 1: was the one memento from that party that I would

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Speaker 1: love to wear proudly.

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Speaker 2: And by magic badge, we mean m ajic is in Majestic,

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Speaker 2: MJ Magic twelve, that kind of thing, not magic, m

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Speaker 2: a g ic. We gave a badge, as we've said before,

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Speaker 2: to everybody at our Dark Sky's premiere party back in

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Speaker 2: ninety six, and the only guy that didn't have one

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Speaker 2: was JC except I also found out that I had

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Speaker 2: misplaced mine. It was driving me nuts, so I started

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Speaker 2: going through more boxes and Brent, I have an announcement

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Speaker 2: to make Oh no, now I feel I have my

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Speaker 2: magic badge. Yep now, and those of you, yeah, you

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Speaker 2: describe it For those of people who are listening to

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Speaker 2: us instead of watching this, I think let's start with

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Speaker 2: the headline, which is mullet and yeah, that is the

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Speaker 2: headline I had an Unfortunately, my kids have never stopped

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Speaker 2: teasing me about that, but go ahead.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, you look like an operative. You look like

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Speaker 1: you could have worked for Majestic in the day in

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Speaker 1: that photo.

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Speaker 2: No, but it's super cool.

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Speaker 1: Actually looks like it could have been authentic, which I

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Speaker 1: think is the highest compliment.

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Speaker 2: I wish we could remember who exactly designed it, because

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Speaker 2: it's cool. Somebody in the art department, I'm sure, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and they did a great little job. And here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: On the back side. It's literally got a thumb print,

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Speaker 2: which would have been the way up to id yourself

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Speaker 2: back in the sixties when we were saying our series

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Speaker 2: took place. Although that is not my thumb print, it's

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Speaker 2: just a generic I'm sure it's on everybody's magic badge,

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Speaker 2: including yours. Anyway, these things were cool. I'm glad to

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Speaker 2: have it back. I actually have a digital copy of yours.

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Speaker 2: So our show today will actually have you and me

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Speaker 2: side by side brought together again. Butch and Sundi ence

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Speaker 2: at the Magic Corral, so that would be good. The

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Speaker 2: thing is, we have found something else. It's some physical evidence,

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Speaker 2: if you will or at least suggestive of evidence while

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Speaker 2: getting ready to do this podcast, and we want to

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Speaker 2: bring it to everyone's attention. The thing is, we want

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Speaker 2: to do a short amount of setting the timeframe for everybody,

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Speaker 2: because when we show you what we have found, it's

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Speaker 2: important to know when it came out and what it

96
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Speaker 2: was surrounded by, just to get that party started. Everyone

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Speaker 2: by now Brent knows about the Dark Sky's Party, but

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Speaker 2: that was September of nineteen ninety six, Okay, but we

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Speaker 2: need to roll back to ninety four is when you

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Speaker 2: and I met and started talking about Dark Skies. But

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Speaker 2: the first real year that we need to say belonged

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Speaker 2: to that show is nineteen ninety five, and it started

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Speaker 2: in January, on literally January, tewod with the Loan Guard Letter,

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Speaker 2: which we talked about in a previous episode, and things

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Speaker 2: picked up in intensity. I'm sure you remember all of that.

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Speaker 2: But after the Loan Guard Letter, we started doing those

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Speaker 2: notebooks for real, and the Loan Guard Letter was in it,

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Speaker 2: so was all that other stuff. We started building notebooks,

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Speaker 2: and as you said, we went to Kinko's all the time.

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Speaker 2: That was fun. The script we had included in that

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Speaker 2: notebook an outline of a two hour pilot, but we

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Speaker 2: had not written it. We were in March talking about

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Speaker 2: picking up Dark Skies to various production companies, and the

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Speaker 2: one we settled on was Columbia TV in March, and

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Speaker 2: we instantly had them order a script from us. So

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Speaker 2: we were working in March in May on the Dark

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Speaker 2: Sky's two hour pilot. I bet you remember those days.

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Speaker 1: I do, And I want to give a nod to

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Speaker 1: our patron saint at Sony, Jeff Sagansky, who I remember

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Speaker 1: he apparently bought the show as he stepped off the

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Speaker 1: concorde in Paris, he having just read the entire briefing

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Speaker 1: book on the flight across the Atlantic. If it weren't

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Speaker 1: for him, we wouldn't be telling these stories. And so

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Speaker 1: again a nod to Jeff Sagansky, who's been what was

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Speaker 1: central to getting this thing off the ground.

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Speaker 2: I love hearing that story, and I actually found some

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Speaker 2: notes recently about that time, and it talks about how

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Speaker 2: Jeff was very impressed by the notebook. I think he

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Speaker 2: loved a lot about it, but the notebook he just thought,

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Speaker 2: I think because Jeff is a pretty good marketer, and

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Speaker 2: I think he saw the same potential in it that

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Speaker 2: we saw, so anyway may happens. The script gets written,

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Speaker 2: that's where things get interesting. The script actually got turned

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Speaker 2: into Columbia TV on my birthday, which is May seventeenth,

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Speaker 2: and that's why I remember it so well, which allowed

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Speaker 2: me to turn it in and go away for the weekend,

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Speaker 2: which is a lovely thing to do, to have nothing

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Speaker 2: on your plate for an entire week, and that was great.

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Speaker 2: Then things got interesting because we started doing notes on it.

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Speaker 2: Jeff ordered more notebooks because we were going to get

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Speaker 2: ready to go pitch this. So at first we'd only

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Speaker 2: made a certain small smattering of notebooks, these classified briefing notebooks,

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Speaker 2: and then we got serious. We were doing notebooks by

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Speaker 2: the dozen, and we were oh man, those were the days. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, it was a full production that we went into

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Speaker 1: in terms of producing those notebooks, and I don't remember.

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Speaker 1: I think we made ten or twelve of them, or

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Speaker 1: maybe even twenty. But it was a huge undertaking, a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun to produce all of those. But I

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Speaker 1: think the main thing that I take away is that

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Speaker 1: we were so steeped in dark skies at that time.

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Speaker 1: Everything was dark skies, like twenty four to seven except

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Speaker 1: for that one weekend you took off. Because we were

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Speaker 1: getting the show off the ground. This was a dream

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Speaker 1: come true. And as we talked about before with the

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Speaker 1: Low and Guard letter, we were selling this show. And

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Speaker 1: you said Jeff Sigansky was a showman. We had some

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Speaker 1: showmanship in terms of all of the marketing, the collateral

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Speaker 1: marketing that we put together to get the show off

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Speaker 1: the ground, which is interesting in terms of where it

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Speaker 1: all leads with your story you're about to tell.

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Speaker 2: My favorite memory of putting all those notebooks together for

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Speaker 2: Columbia TV was that they were paying for them for

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Speaker 2: a change. The first one we had to go shell

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Speaker 2: out of our own pocket, and everyone had a certain

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Speaker 2: cost to it. I don't remember what the unit cost was,

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Speaker 2: but it wasn't small, and so it was nice that

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Speaker 2: they did it. Anyway, those notebooks got made in June,

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Speaker 2: because the first week of July of ninety five is

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Speaker 2: when we went out and pitched this to three different

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Speaker 2: networks in the same day, got offers from CBS and

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Speaker 2: NBC and decided to go with NBC. So sometime in July,

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Speaker 2: NBC is getting involved in our life. And here's where

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Speaker 2: the rubber meets the road on this story, NBC picks

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Speaker 2: it up and says, listen, we need to see this pilot.

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Speaker 2: We're putting your pilot into production. So suddenly you and

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Speaker 2: I are in pre production for this two hour pilot

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Speaker 2: that although it wasn't written on spec, it wasn't written

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Speaker 2: for the network. It was written for Sagansky and his

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Speaker 2: executive team at Columbia TV. And I'm sure there were

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Speaker 2: some bruised feelings at some network level by people that said,

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Speaker 2: wait a minute, we don't even get to develop this thing.

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Speaker 2: You just bought it. But that's what happened. So this

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Speaker 2: thing goes into pre production at the same time that

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Speaker 2: it's going into pre production, though NBC had ordered six

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Speaker 2: backup scripts, and to explain what that means is just

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Speaker 2: NBC wanted to make sure that if they shot this pilot,

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Speaker 2: we had a plan for where we were going. But

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Speaker 2: more than that, they didn't want to look at just

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Speaker 2: some little document you and I put together that said

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Speaker 2: this is our plan for the series. They wanted to

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Speaker 2: read scripts. So we had two things going on at

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Speaker 2: the same time in July, which was prepare for pre

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Speaker 2: production which would start soon, and also get these scripts

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Speaker 2: done and the reason we were preparing for pre production is,

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Speaker 2: as it turns out, we started shooting the Dark Skies

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Speaker 2: to hour pilot on November eighth of nineteen ninety five,

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Speaker 2: so that was looming as a deadline. Okay, what I'm

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Speaker 2: about to show you, folks, is something that it's not

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Speaker 2: like Brent and I forgot about it, but we saw

201
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Speaker 2: this when it happened, had definite feelings about it, and

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Speaker 2: then got involved in producing Dark Skies and to complete

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Speaker 2: that metaphor. What then ended up happening is that it

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Speaker 2: got put in one of my boxes and filed away

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Speaker 2: with everything else, and then life went on right. I

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Speaker 2: had three kids, and I had other shows that I

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Speaker 2: was working on afterwards, as did you, and Memory being

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Speaker 2: what it was, these things fell out of my mind

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Speaker 2: and then they fell back in recently, quite recently, while

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Speaker 2: working on Sound lad and Frequency. Here's what happened. It's

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Speaker 2: August and we're in the middle of all of this,

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Speaker 2: and I'll go to my mailbox one day and people

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Speaker 2: actually got mail back then. I don't know how many

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Speaker 2: people are actually getting mail. If you get mail anymore,

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Speaker 2: I get junk mail, I get junk mail, I get bills,

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Speaker 2: but back then sometimes you could get something that was

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Speaker 2: worth reading. Sometimes somebody would send you a letter or something,

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Speaker 2: so it's still worth going to the mailbox. I went

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Speaker 2: to the mailbox that day and I got a postcard.

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Speaker 2: This is the postcard, all right. As you look at

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Speaker 2: this thing, you see it's got a book cover on it.

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Speaker 2: The book is actually called The Flying Eyes. It was

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Speaker 2: published in nineteen six two by the author J. Hunter Holly,

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Speaker 2: and it basically is a I don't know, it's flying eyes. Okay,

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Speaker 2: it's flying eyes. It's strange. It caught my attention.

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Speaker 1: But it's an alien invasion with flying eyes essentially, right.

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Speaker 2: Which as I understand it, I have not read it.

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Speaker 2: But these levitating eyes could hypnotize people on moss and

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Speaker 2: they were bizarrely resilient. You could shoot them, as I

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Speaker 2: understand it, and they would reconstitute themselves. But basically it's

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Speaker 2: the surveillance thing. These eyes basically are looking down on

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Speaker 2: people from the sky. Now, if that sounds familiar to

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Speaker 2: the UFO issue, congratulations, we'll send you a prize. What happened, though,

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Speaker 2: is I read the back of it and I was

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Speaker 2: shocked because there were four words and they are not

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Speaker 2: written across like a normal sentence. They are stacked. They

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Speaker 2: are stacked one word another word, and they're all typed

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Speaker 2: in curier front. They're all capitalized, and it's obvious clear

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Speaker 2: that a very full ribbon has been used. And they

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Speaker 2: shocked me, they freaked me out. And this is what

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Speaker 2: they said, we are watching you bring back some memories.

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Speaker 2: It does not good memories either. Although I will say

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Speaker 2: that there was the initial this is just a joke, right,

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Speaker 2: And I think you assumed I did it. I don't

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Speaker 2: think I actually thought you had done it to yourself.

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Speaker 2: That's a double backslip of reality even I can't pull

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Speaker 2: right off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think once we got past the did

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Speaker 1: you do it?

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Speaker 2: Did you do it? Did you do it?

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Speaker 1: And it was clear that neither one of us did

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Speaker 1: it to each other, then the creepiness started settling in. Because,

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Speaker 1: of course, let's not forget you gave a great set

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Speaker 1: the table of context of what was going on at

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Speaker 1: the time. But even go back a little bit further.

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Speaker 1: We were doing a show in which I had taken

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Speaker 1: information given to me by John Harrington, the man in

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Speaker 1: the Reagan administration who disclosed to me, and we had

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Speaker 1: woven some of those ideas into our show, and so

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Speaker 1: for someone to be watching us sent a shiver down

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Speaker 1: my spine. And this was even before JC.

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Speaker 2: My spine didn't get completely shivered until we talked. I

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Speaker 2: got this, and I thought this is quite odd. And

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Speaker 2: I thought it was odd enough that my wife reminds

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Speaker 2: me she didn't learn about these things till much later. Right.

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Speaker 2: I must have been somewhat freaked out a little bit

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Speaker 2: by the postcard that I didn't show it to her.

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Speaker 2: I did take it to the office right away. And

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Speaker 2: this postcard, by the way, is August nineteenth, nineteen ninety five.

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Speaker 2: I took it to the office and showed it to you,

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Speaker 2: and you're correct. My first take that I wanted to

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Speaker 2: rule out was that somehow, because of our notebooks and

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Speaker 2: the whole idea of surveillance and us being in the

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Speaker 2: middle of it, that you had just found this postcard

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Speaker 2: and thought this will be a fun thing. I'll pull

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Speaker 2: one over on Bryce. So I showed it to you,

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Speaker 2: and it was very clear that you had not done that.

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Speaker 2: Not only did you say you hadn't done it, but

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Speaker 2: you were clearly surprised enough by it that you were thinking,

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Speaker 2: this is not good. This is very strange, and I

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Speaker 2: want to just remind the audience. This is August of

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Speaker 2: ninety five, which is thirteen entire months before that Dark

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Speaker 2: Sky's premiere party, when the actual show would air on

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Speaker 2: NBC and JC would come to my house and offer

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Speaker 2: a cooperation deal with the Office of Naval Intelligence. So

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Speaker 2: this was something that was troubling. I thought it was

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Speaker 2: very troubling because first of all, somebody had gone to

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Speaker 2: the trouble to find a postcard that is literally eyes

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Speaker 2: in the sky watching you, and then they'd boiled it

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Speaker 2: down to the basic surveillance motif we are watching you.

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Speaker 2: It's troubling, yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: Once we got past the obvious, it raised the question

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Speaker 1: of who could have sent this, and that's a whole

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Speaker 1: rabbit hole we can go down, and we will, but

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Speaker 1: I want to just rewind because I was already on edge,

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Speaker 1: as I said, by doing Dark Skuys in the first place,

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Speaker 1: so when this happened, it took all of my paranoia

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Speaker 1: up a notch and adding more fuel to that flame.

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Speaker 1: Right around this same time, I remember that I had

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Speaker 1: a friend come visit me, who I will just say

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Speaker 1: worked for one of the Alphabet agencies. And he came

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Speaker 1: to our house, and when my wife was out of

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Speaker 1: the room, he took me aside and he said, hey,

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Speaker 1: by the way, do you know that your phone is tapped?

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Speaker 1: And I thought, what do you mean? He said, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: there's five or six different wiretaps on this. I can

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Speaker 1: tell this is what I do. And I thought, I

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Speaker 1: don't understand. Why would my phone be tapped. He goes,

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Speaker 1: when you put a show like Dark Sky's on the air,

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Speaker 1: there's probably people want to know what you're talking about

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, can you get rid of it?

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Speaker 1: And he goes, that's is way above my pay grade.

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Speaker 1: So I had this whole other layer now where you're

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Speaker 1: getting postcards talking to both of us that were being

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Speaker 1: surveilled or watched with a flying Eyes message on there.

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Speaker 1: That's not too subtle. And meanwhile I'm finding out that

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Speaker 1: my phone is tapped at home. And I think the

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Speaker 1: title we used, or we were going to use for

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Speaker 1: one of our scripts was Paranoia Strikes Deep, and that

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Speaker 1: was from the exit music for our pilot, the Buffalo

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Speaker 1: Springfield song for what It's Worth. That was one of

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Speaker 1: the lines. And I got to tell you at this

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Speaker 1: time paranoia had struck deep in me, and I was

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Speaker 1: really worried. And like you said, we hadn't even shot

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Speaker 1: the pilot yet, and I was already on edge.

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Speaker 2: Think about that, somebody's telling you your phone is tapped.

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Speaker 2: We haven't even shot anything. We're not on the air.

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Speaker 2: It's curious about the selection of those four words. We

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Speaker 2: are watching you. It's not like I'm watching you, it's we,

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Speaker 2: which raises a lot of questions. Who is this we?

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Speaker 2: Who would that be? Just a couple of things to

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Speaker 2: unpack from what you just said the phone tap kind

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Speaker 2: of idea. No one ever told me my phone was

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Speaker 2: tapped that I remember you telling me that story, and

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Speaker 2: all I remember was this. I had for a couple

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Speaker 2: of months of feeling, Well, here's the thing. When I

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Speaker 2: was a kid growing up in the six people had

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Speaker 2: party lines, which meant that you shared a line with

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Speaker 2: somebody else. I've heard like you'd be having a call

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Speaker 2: with somebody and you'd hear this technical click kind of thing,

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Speaker 2: and you'd know that somebody on the other party line

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Speaker 2: was listening to your phone call. And so people would

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Speaker 2: have conversations like, hey, I'm on the phone here, and

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Speaker 2: the party line person would say, yeah, but I got

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Speaker 2: to make a phone call. It's important. I have to

347
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Speaker 2: call my doctor, and you'd say, I'm wrapping up, give

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Speaker 2: me a five minutes. You'd have conversations with people you

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Speaker 2: did not know. Right, it's so strange to say to

350
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Speaker 2: that to anybody today, But party lines were a thing anyway.

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Speaker 2: You did hear clicks and things because of that, and

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Speaker 2: then for many years I never heard anything like that.

353
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Speaker 2: But when we started doing dark skies, I did hear

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Speaker 2: these sort of technical things, and I haven't thought too

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Speaker 2: much of it. I thought we got a shitty phone line,

356
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Speaker 2: to be honest, it was my first thing. I thought,

357
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Speaker 2: because that happened, you'd have marginal phone service. That would happen.

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Speaker 2: But when you told me that, I thought, that's interesting

359
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 2: because I've heard two or three different sounds. They weren't

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Speaker 2: always the same sound.

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Speaker 1: No, it sounded like, ironically like some of the clicking

362
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Speaker 1: sounds that you hear in the Disclosure Day trailer. It

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00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,879
Speaker 1: was like little popping and clicking, and I guess that

364
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Speaker 1: was people tapping in and out of the line.

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Speaker 2: What I want to say further to everyone is to

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Speaker 2: stay with us. Because there was a second postcard and

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Speaker 2: it came four days later. But I don't want to

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Speaker 2: talk about that postcard just yet because in preparing for

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Speaker 2: this show, we've done a little background research and one

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Speaker 2: of the things that we realized and I'm holding up

371
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Speaker 2: a book right now for those of you listening. It's

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Speaker 2: from Stanton Friedman as the author, and it's called Top

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Speaker 2: Secret Magic again m Ajiic. And this book came out

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Speaker 2: in I believe ninety seven, and actually I optioned it.

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Speaker 2: This was after Dark Shyes, I optioned it because I

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Speaker 2: thought maybe I can turn this into a movie or something.

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00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,959
Speaker 2: In reading through it, though, Stanton tells a story in

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Speaker 2: this book. And again this came out after our postcards. Well,

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Speaker 2: even though it has been.

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Speaker 1: I just want to interrupt for a second, because, first

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Speaker 1: of all, you were friends with Stanton Friedman. But for

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Speaker 1: those who don't know who Stanton Friedman is, he was

383
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Speaker 1: someone pretty important in neufology.

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Speaker 2: Stanton Friedman was the wizard of euthology. He was a

385
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Speaker 2: nuclear physicist who basically quit his job in the I

386
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Speaker 2: think the late fifties and then became the voice of

387
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Speaker 2: UFO research in the sixties. Fascinating guy really walked the walk.

388
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Speaker 2: The guy was a tremendous researcher and gave his life

389
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Speaker 2: and abilities to it. But one of the things that

390
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Speaker 2: I realized in there, and by the way, if any

391
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Speaker 2: of you owned this book, it's on page eighty nine

392
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Speaker 2: in both the hardcover and the soft cover, which I

393
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 2: don't know how that happened, but that's the truth. Stanton

394
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 2: had been working with two other UFO researchers in the

395
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Speaker 2: late eighties, and they were Heimi Shandera and Bill Moore,

396
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 2: and Sandra had received a role of undeveloped film in

397
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,959
Speaker 2: the mail and they had developed the film, and the

398
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 2: film was a document. And that document been formed not

399
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 2: only ufology for a while and became incredibly controversial, but

400
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 2: it was something you and I embraced for dark skies,

401
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: and it was basically what we now have come to

402
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 2: know the Eisenhower Briefing document, and that is a document

403
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 2: that was supposedly created on November eighteenth, nineteen fifty two,

404
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 2: for Dwight Eisenhower, who had just been elected president, who

405
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: was getting briefed before he would take office the next

406
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,919
Speaker 2: early the next year, and it basically said braswell was

407
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,919
Speaker 2: real that we had bodies there rather crashes. It's a

408
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 2: profound document, and one of the things in it is

409
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Speaker 2: that it also said that there was a memo called

410
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 2: the Cutler Twining Memo that said MJ twelve is real

411
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 2: because it basically is a memo from Ike's chief of

412
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 2: staff asking for a meeting for some thing called m

413
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: J twelve. After they developed this film and saw the

414
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 2: Majestic twelve documents, it's pretty fascinating, Brent, and it's laid

415
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 2: out in Stan's book. They claimed they had received some

416
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 2: postcards in the mail and that these postcards had some

417
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 2: specific information on them. One of the things that they

418
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 2: did is they talked about Suitland, they talked about Reese's Pieces,

419
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 2: and they talked about Box one eighty nine, and they

420
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 2: were mailed from Believe, Ethiopia. That's where they said they

421
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 2: were from. Here's the thing. Reese's Pieces refers to a

422
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 2: guy named Ed Reese who ran the National Archives, and

423
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Speaker 2: Suitland refers to Suitland, Maryland, which is where the archives

424
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: were located. And when Shandera and Moore went to those

425
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 2: archives and spent days going through stuff, they literally ended

426
00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,239
Speaker 2: up in Box one eighty nine where they found that

427
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 2: Cutler Twining memo from nineteen fifty four from Ike and

428
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 2: it was just in the middle of the files. So

429
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Speaker 2: I guess what I'm saying is there is precedent for

430
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Speaker 2: what you and I went through that somebody was using postcards.

431
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 2: Now it might have been disinformation, it might have been

432
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 2: just somebody trying to have fun with UFO researchers. That's possible,

433
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 2: and we can get into more of that later, but

434
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 2: it was pretty real to them at the time.

435
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: I have two thoughts on this. The first is I'm jealous.

436
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: They get a postcard that sounds or postcards. It sounds

437
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: like it's an alternate reality game or an escape room.

438
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 1: They get to go on a treasure hunt and find

439
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: something cool. We just get a threat. If I could

440
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: do it all over again, I'd prefer the fun game

441
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: that we can go on our treasure hunt. Secondarily, if

442
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, William Moore had quite an interesting presence

443
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: in ufology, and so I'm curious on your.

444
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: Opinion of that.

445
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: Maybe you can give us a little background on him,

446
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 1: but also does that undercut or undermine the credibility of

447
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: this twining memo?

448
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: Ah fascinating. First of all, Twining is invoked twice in ufology,

449
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty seven, Nathan Twining, who was Lieutenant General

450
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: Nathan Twining of the Army Air Forces, had written a

451
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 2: memo that he was told to write. This is a

452
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 2: real memo. It was released under Freedom of Information Act.

453
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 2: It's the real thing. The government admits it's real. It's

454
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 2: a memo from Nathan Twining where he stated that the

455
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: objects seen by military personnel were not whether astronomical or

456
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: other phenomenon, but rather objects that warranted further investigation. And

457
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: this is the memo people might have heard about. In

458
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: that memo, it says, quote, the phenomenon reported is something

459
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 2: real and not visionary or fictitious. That's about as clean

460
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 2: a statement the US government has ever made, ever, ever amazing.

461
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 2: And again, that is the Twining memo. Now, the Cutler

462
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: Twining memo is the one that showed up in the

463
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: Majestic twelve documents, and that was the one that was

464
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: used to say MJ twelve is real because here's a

465
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 2: memo from Ike and all that. But of course, if

466
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: you don't believe the Majestic twelve documents are real, then

467
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: you might not believe that document is real. And I

468
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 2: know this sounds arcane, but the date of the Twining

469
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 2: Memo where he said the phenomenon is real is September

470
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: twenty three, nineteen forty seven. But what's pretty interesting is

471
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 2: that the Eisenhower briefing document, the memo it has the

472
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 2: Truman Forestall Memo inside. That briefing document is dated September

473
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 2: twenty fourth, nineteen forty seven, the day after the so

474
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 2: called Twining Memo, and in that one it says, quote,

475
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: as per our recent conversation on the matter, you are

476
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: hereby authorized, and by the way, this is from Harry Truman.

477
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: You are hereby authorized. Proceed with all due speed and

478
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: caution upon your undertaking hereafter this matter shall be referred

479
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 2: to only as Operation Majestic twelve. So let me put

480
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: it this way. If that memo is fake, as many

481
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 2: people try to allege, then at least whoever wrote it

482
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 2: and put it inside the Eyesenow rebriefing Memo knew about

483
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: the Twining Memo and managed to put these dates together.

484
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 2: So the whole thing is this arcane but fascinating thing,

485
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: and somehow we're in the middle of that thing. That

486
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: freaks me out too.

487
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm fascinated by this concept that this was a

488
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: form of communication between the people in the shadows and

489
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: people like you and I out trying to make a

490
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: TV show or investigate something. You're getting postcards in the

491
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: mail from somewhere out in the world, in this case Ethiopia.

492
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: Even looking back on ours, we got ours from Santa Clarita,

493
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 1: which was way outside of La but it was very

494
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: close to the area we ended up shooting later, our

495
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: crop circle sequence. We didn't know anyone that lived out

496
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: in Santa Clarita, and I'm sure these two gentlemen didn't

497
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: know anyone in Ethiopia. You get something in the mail

498
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: from an unknown source, and in their case it led

499
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: to supposedly a document that became foundational in ufology. And

500
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: for us, again it was a threat. It was, or

501
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: at least a vague threat. And I have to believe

502
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: that in both cases these were done intentionally. The question

503
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 1: as comes up a lot, was it done to help

504
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 1: us to lead us down a path, to send us

505
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: a signal, or was it done to disinform us to

506
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: throw us off the scent. That's the most frustrating thing

507
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: is that we can't discern the intention here.

508
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 2: I want to talk more about that, but let's take

509
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: a little sidebar, because one of the things you mentioned,

510
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: Brent was that Paranoia Strikes Deep, which is a line

511
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 2: from the song for what It's Worth, written by Buffalo's

512
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: Springfield and performed by Buffalo Springfield, and that's the one

513
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: where it says there's a man with a gun over

514
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 2: there telling me, I gotta beware. Paranoia strikes deep into

515
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 2: your heart. It will creep. And we love that song.

516
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 2: We did, in fact use it in our Dark Sky's pilot,

517
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 2: and in fact, one of those backup scripts that you

518
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: and I were writing was called Paranoia Strikes Deep, and

519
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 2: we did in fact write that script and it never

520
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 2: got shot. It's the lost episode of Dark Skies, along

521
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 2: with some of those others that other writers have done

522
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 2: as well. But Paranoia Strikes Deep reminds me of a

523
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: movie that I have seen recently and you just saw recently.

524
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: I think we should take a little detour.

525
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, let's do that, because I think this movie

526
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: is a great example of how you can tell a

527
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: really compelling UAP alien story without a big budget and

528
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: big special effects. And it captured that sense of kind

529
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: of escalating paranoia incredibly well, which makes it very relevant

530
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: to discussion we're having listen.

531
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: The movie we're talking about, of course, is The vast

532
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: of Night. Okay, it was released in twenty nineteen. I

533
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 2: think it came out and was winning awards. Yeah, it

534
00:28:58,680 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: was produced in twenty nineteen.

535
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,239
Speaker 1: I think it was in a few film festivals. But

536
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: then it premiered on Amazon in twenty twenty, and.

537
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: I remember seeing it. That was during the lockdown, the

538
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: COVID lockdown, and at the time, my daughter and her

539
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: best friend were living at my house, and so we

540
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: all watched it together, and my daughter's friend said, that's

541
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: the best film I've ever seen. But I'll tell you

542
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: what's interesting about it. We always try to do the

543
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: log line. The log line for Vastia Night is I'm

544
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: just to complete what it is. It's a micro budget

545
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: it's a kind of an inventive UFO mystery, and it

546
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: takes place in one night in nineteen fifties New Mexico

547
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 2: in a small town, and it's really two main characters,

548
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: a switchboard operator and a radio DJ, who are chasing

549
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: down a mysterious audio frequency that's happening when strange lights

550
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: are in town and if anybody has missed that that

551
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: would be sound an audio recording that has shown up

552
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: and light str range, dancing lights on the edge of town,

553
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: and frequency because it's coming out over a radio transmission.

554
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe that's why I liked it so much.

555
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: Maybe I knew we were going to do this podcast

556
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: a good six years ago, Brent, and now I'm finally

557
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: catching up to that. Maybe we're influence.

558
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: We have so far focused on some of the big

559
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: formative movies in science fiction with regards to UAP and aliens.

560
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: We've done a lot of big movies, but I think

561
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: this is one of the things we also wanted to do.

562
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: Was there's going to be certain movies that are out

563
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: there like this one, which I highly recommend, that just

564
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: evaded everyone's radar. I had never heard of it before

565
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: until Bryce brought it up for me. And this is

566
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that we'd also like the show

567
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: to do, is encourage you to go back and watch this.

568
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: We've talked about some movies on the show that I

569
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't encourage that this one I would. The thing I

570
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: found fascinating when I dug into it a little bit

571
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: is that it's loosely based on two actual events from history.

572
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: One of them was the Kesburg Ufo incident, which happened

573
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania in nineteen sixty five. What happened was a

574
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: bunch of citizens and even some pilots at the time

575
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: reported this huge fireball going across the sky and the

576
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: people saw it. It hit somewhere in the vicinity and

577
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: it apparently it was dropping like a bunch of hot

578
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: metal debris as it went across the sky. And then

579
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: where it hit, that whole area was immediately sealed off

580
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: by army and state police. Now, ultimately the official explanation

581
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: was it was a meteor. That was what everyone the

582
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: news tried to push out there. But then NASA came

583
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: forward later and claimed that it was a Soviet satellite. However, interestingly,

584
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty seven, a few years later, NASA claimed, oh,

585
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: all the evidence for that Soviet satellite that's been lost.

586
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: As the kids like to say, vary sus. That incident,

587
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: interestingly has been nicknamed Pennsylvania's ros Well.

588
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: And that one is unsolved to this day. Correct and

589
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: based on witnesses, it probably was solved. Listen. First of all,

590
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: I like this movie. It may not be for everybody.

591
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: It's interesting that critics love this movie, but people that

592
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: watch it are a little more at sea about it.

593
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: Some of them think it's too slow or whatever. And

594
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 2: the reason they think it's too slow is that the

595
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: director Andrew Patterson, who did a really nice job with it.

596
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: But the director has chosen to go with these extremely

597
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: long scenes, and there's many of them. I think there's

598
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: like half the number of cuts in this film that

599
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: would be in a normal film, as I understand it.

600
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: But what I love about it is that there are

601
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: two scenes where someone just basically talks and it's creepy

602
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: and interesting and I just recommend it. And here's the thing.

603
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: The guy's running a radio broadcast and everyone's at the

604
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: basketball game that night, so he's all alone. He's taken

605
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: calls and people are reporting these dancing lights and things

606
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 2: in the sky, and he's asking for information, and a

607
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 2: guy named Billy calls in, and Billy says he has

608
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 2: served in the military. He was taken to a secret

609
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: desert site where personnel built a large underground structure to

610
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: house a mysterious object, and they were told if they

611
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: talked about it, it would endanger America. Now, this is

612
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: a long scene and it's so great, but the idea

613
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: of the mystery building that sounds like the one that's

614
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: rumored that Coultart first started talking about a couple of

615
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: years ago, which I don't think I'm violating anybody's suspicions

616
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 2: to say that. People talk about it being in South Korea.

617
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: Nobody has confirmed that or anything. That's just what people

618
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: say on the internet. In any case, what I really

619
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 2: found fascinating about this guy and this story is that

620
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: he says a couple of things. He says it was

621
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: bigger than an airplane, but no one was allowed to

622
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: see it, which again fits in with the large thing

623
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 2: that Coultart was talking about. He said they had to

624
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: dig a hole to put this enormous thing in it,

625
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: and it was covered with a tarp, and it's just

626
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 2: so creepy the way he talks about it. And he

627
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 2: said that he was picked to do it because he

628
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: was black and people that were on the crew were

629
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: largely black and Mexican, to make sure that their testimony

630
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 2: wouldn't be taken as seriously, which frankly sounds realistic and

631
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 2: for that era, yeah, for sure. And then there's this

632
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 2: second interview where they that's when they're on the air

633
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 2: the first one. The second one, they go to somebody's house.

634
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: A woman has called in and said, I know all

635
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: about this. Come over. And they come over to this

636
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: woman's house. Her name is Mabel, and she says basically,

637
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: they've come here before, and she calls them the people

638
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 2: in the sky and she says, they took my son,

639
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 2: and no one has ever believed me. So the whole

640
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 2: thing is about mystery, but it doesn't really draw a

641
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: road map. And I guess the reason I'm comparing it

642
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: to this postcard thing is it was something that you

643
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: could relate to. They had a sort of a sound

644
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: we had postcard and instead of answering questions, it raises questions. Yeah,

645
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 2: at least that's how it hit me.

646
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had all the same feels. What I loved

647
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: about it was this idea that it took a little

648
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: bit of contact, which was this idea of the whole

649
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: inciting incident being this mysterious sound that they're hearing, that

650
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 1: people are hearing. And then it combined it with Close

651
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 1: Encounters of the third kind, so two of my favorite

652
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: movies in the space, and the way it brought in

653
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: the Close Encounters thing was this sound was something that people.

654
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: It manipulated them, they became obsessed about it. And part

655
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: of what the theory was is that you were trying

656
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 1: to follow the source of this sound and it led

657
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: people away from the town out into isolation where they

658
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: could be abducted. So that's a really fascinating idea. And

659
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: again it connects back for me and how Richard Dreyfuss

660
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: and the other characters and Close Encounters got this image

661
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: in their head of the Devil's Tower and they became

662
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: obsessed with it, and they followed the trail of that

663
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: all the way to this encounter with a close Encounter

664
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: of the third trind So combining those two elements in

665
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: a really original way with a micro budget. By the way,

666
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: yes it's a micro budget, but it looks good. It's stylish.

667
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: It does not look like a cheap film. It's just

668
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot of long takes to sign.

669
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: Up money, monk takes, and people that like things to

670
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 2: be very well lit will probably be disappointed because a

671
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,919
Speaker 2: lot of it is not that well lit. But that's

672
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: part of its charm and mystery and all that. Anyway,

673
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: it's a good film. But the reason I bring it

674
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 2: up is if you see the vast of night. Then

675
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 2: you will understand what we mean when we say paranoia

676
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: strikes deep, because it gets inside you and you go,

677
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: I'm disturbed by this. That is exactly what you and

678
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: I both felt when we saw the postcards. Or at

679
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 2: least I'm speaking for myself at this point, but I'm

680
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: thinking you must have felt something similar to that.

681
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: I felt the exact same things, and I think it's

682
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: time to now visit the second postcard.

683
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 2: It's funny, I just wrote a note to myself that

684
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: says second postcard. So here we go. All right, we

685
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: told you about postcard number one, the Flying Eyes, where

686
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 2: again it says we are watching you, all right. That

687
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 2: happened on August nineteenth, nineteen ninety five, and you and

688
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: I pretty well thought, okay, somebody has sent us a

689
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: message that's disconcerting. The show must go on. At least

690
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 2: I think that is what we were doing, because we

691
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 2: didn't have time to sit around and think to ourselves.

692
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 2: Should we look into this. Let's hire a private eye.

693
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 2: Let's do you know there's no internet to search on it.

694
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: We couldn't even get the books at that time, right,

695
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,240
Speaker 2: Maybe you would have got the books, but it didn't

696
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 2: really look like they were sending a message with the

697
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: book cover. It just felt like somebody found a target

698
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: of opportunity, bought this postcard, typed in this message. Who

699
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: they were, we don't know. Okay. That was where we

700
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: were until four days later, on August twenty third, nineteen

701
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 2: ninety five, when we received this postcard, which is Operation Interstellar,

702
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: and it is let's see, it's written by George O. Smith. Listen,

703
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,479
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly the whole thing about what it's about.

704
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 2: I haven't read it, but it's something about a main

705
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 2: character who believes that real time communication across interstellar distances

706
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 2: is impossible. No, that's the theory that people are saying.

707
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: But the main character is a guy named Paul Grayson

708
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 2: who believes in that technology that can have instant communications

709
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 2: across space time. So it is an interesting little secret,

710
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 2: if true. People talk about that right now. But that's

711
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: not what got weird about this one for us, because

712
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: at that point it was just a book cover, all right.

713
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: The back of it is in the same typeface, so

714
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: it looks like a courier. It's in all caps, and honestly,

715
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: I could send it out to be looked at, but

716
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 2: it's pretty clear to me it's either a matching typewriter

717
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: or the same typewriter, and not with a very dark

718
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: ribbon like the first one. It's a little lighter ribbon,

719
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: which I guess if you were typing a lot four

720
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: days later might sit. So this is August twenty third,

721
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: and here it comes. This one again is stacked, but

722
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: it's more than four words. So it's got phrases that

723
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: are stacked. But it says we admire you and are

724
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: very impressed by your work. We even take pride in

725
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 2: your accomplishments. There it goes. You can see that there.

726
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 2: Now one of these is a threat, but the other

727
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 2: seems to be something entirely different. It's the push pull.

728
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: It's the good cop bad copy. Yeah. I don't have

729
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 2: any good theories on that, other than maybe somebody sent

730
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: we are watching you, and somebody in charge of that

731
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: person said, that's a ridiculous. Don't freak these guys out,

732
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 2: tell them that we like them, or something that could

733
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: have happened. But that second one, four days later, I

734
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 2: should point out before we get into any analysis of it,

735
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 2: is that we never got another one. The best of

736
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 2: my knowledge, I've never seen another one. I never got

737
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 2: another one. You never got another one. But again I

738
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: point out August twenty third, Brent, is exactly one month

739
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 2: and one year until JC shows up at our house.

740
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 2: And I was just wondering, did you ever think in retrospect?

741
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 2: You know, at the time we only had our one reaction, right,

742
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: but now we have a reaction from thirty years later?

743
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: Are you thinking, JC? Yeah?

744
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: So, before I give you my present day theory, my

745
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: thought at the time was that it was a friend.

746
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: That it wasn't you and I didn't do it, then

747
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: it had to be someone in our inner circle who

748
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: was doing it as a prank. As you said, maybe

749
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: their conscience was what changed them. Maybe they were close

750
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: enough to us at the time that they saw that

751
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: we were freaked out by the first postcard, that we

752
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: are watching you, and so they pulled back and they said,

753
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: oh no, we're we admire you, We're proud of your accomplishments.

754
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: So that was part of my thinking at the time.

755
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: But again, as you said, we didn't have JC as

756
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: a suspect at that moment, so I think we just

757
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 1: wrote it off as somebody in our inner circle was

758
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: messing with us. Post JC coming into your backyard and

759
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 1: making us a deal. Any paranoia that we had about

760
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: the postcards was now living and breathing. It wasn't just

761
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: a postcard. It was a person, and it's in my

762
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: mind it's hard to believe that wasn't JC sending those postcards,

763
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: or at least the office that JC said he worked for,

764
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: the Office of Naval Intelligence, because, as we talked about,

765
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: it wasn't I'm watching you, I admire, it's we are

766
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: watching you, we admire. So you start to look at

767
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: all of the circumstantial evidence. The message that JC came

768
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: to us with is we've been watching you. We've read

769
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: everything that you have written, and we like what you've done.

770
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,479
Speaker 1: You got a lot, right, So it felt like those

771
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: postcards were announcing his arrival before he even came. However,

772
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: he said nothing about that when he talked to us.

773
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: There was no hey, did you get my postcards? Or

774
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: there was no kind of wink wink reference to we've

775
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: been watching you. So if he did go to that trouble,

776
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: why didn't he take credit for it? I can't answer

777
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: that question, But to this moment, I still contend my

778
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: number one suspect is JC.

779
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: It's a good theory. That's what we're left with. This

780
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: theory is here, But I have a couple of things

781
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: that we have done to track things down and cast

782
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: a wider net about what these things might have meant.

783
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 2: It's very clear in looking at these two postcards with

784
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 2: our thirty years experience now to look back at them

785
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: in a different way. And one of the things you

786
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 2: could say is the postcards fit the style of that

787
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 2: MJ twelve mystery postcard thing that happened to Shandera and More. Okay, yep,

788
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 2: but I fought Shandera and More. I have never seen

789
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: the postcards they claimed were sent to them. So at

790
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 2: least we're showing these postcards and we're putting them on

791
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: our website which is sound like frequency dot com, and

792
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 2: we're putting him in this video and we're talking about

793
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 2: him openly. I wish they had because then we would

794
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 2: have the ability to say, wow, that's pretty similar to

795
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 2: our postcard. As it is, we just have their word

796
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 2: for it. Our postcards do fit that mystery postcard tradition.

797
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 2: But what they don't do that the more Chandera postcard

798
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 2: or postcards they said there were multiples, they don't behave

799
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 2: like the breadcrumb trail. They're not saying, they're not giving

800
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 2: us little clues. As you pointed out that you go,

801
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: oh great, now let's go investigate this. In fact, one

802
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: of them is just saying we're watching you, and the

803
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: other is saying, basically, we think you're doing a good job.

804
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: But it's like it raises the question, who are you

805
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: to tell us we're doing it? I don't even know

806
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 2: who you guys are. So there's that. The other thing

807
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 2: that we've looked into is that postmark. The postmark is

808
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 2: Santa Clarita. And just so people understand, even back in

809
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, Santa Clarita was already a major high

810
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 2: volume filming zone in the LA area. It's where they

811
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 2: had movie ranches and infrastructure, and there were a lot

812
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 2: of people there. And I did a little bit of investigating,

813
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 2: and it seems at that time of things that might

814
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 2: have been shooting there, Mighty morphin Power Rangers was one

815
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 2: of them. Star Trek Productions was I think doing some

816
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 2: voyager filming out there. I don't know what that proves

817
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 2: or doesn't prove, because if I was somebody trying to

818
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 2: put out disinformation, I might very well mail it to

819
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: our contact who was observing the Hollywood community in Santa

820
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 2: Clarita and have them mail it. I don't really know.

821
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, Santa Clarita. The reason we suspected one

822
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: of our people might have done it is because it

823
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: was a filming community. And if I'm not mistaken, during

824
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 2: the production of The Dark Sky's Pilot, you were out

825
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 2: in that area. I didn't go to the Crop Circle shoot,

826
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 2: but you did. And wasn't that near there.

827
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: That's right near Santa Clarita. Yes, But for Santa Clarita

828
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: to mean something when someone sent a postcard in ninety five,

829
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: we weren't shooting that crop Circle sequence, I believe, until ninety.

830
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: Six, So how could they have known. I think we

831
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 2: did shoot that in ninety five because it was in

832
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: our pilot.

833
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 1: But we hadn't gotten the postcard yet, had we.

834
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 2: No. We had postcard comes out in August, and we

835
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: shot Dark Skies starting November eighth in Washington, DC for

836
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: four days. Then we came back in November of ninety

837
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: five and shot through December or something like eighteenth, right

838
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,879
Speaker 2: before Christmas, the week before Christmas, So you were out

839
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 2: there in the immediate backwash of that postcard.

840
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, yeah, It's just all these little coincidences

841
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: start to add up and raise the question was this

842
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: just a random joke or a prank, or was someone

843
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: sending us a message or several messages.

844
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 2: Let's talk theories. It's easy for us to say it

845
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,280
Speaker 2: could have been JC, all right, but there are other theories,

846
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 2: and we should at least put them on the board.

847
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 2: Any rational look at these two postcards, you'd have to say, Okay,

848
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 2: it could have been a prank. The fact that it

849
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: wasn't you, and it wasn't somebody on our production doesn't

850
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: mean somebody else didn't pranks. Because, as we've said, we

851
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: made a bunch of these notebooks. They were out on

852
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 2: the town in the same way that when JC came

853
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: to the Dark Sky's party, the actual show itself had

854
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 2: been put on tape and was passing around the town.

855
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: People could have seen it that way. So somebody could

856
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: have seen our notebook and said, I'm going to prank

857
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 2: these guys. It could have been somebody from the UFO

858
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 2: subculture basically, and it was like cosplay or something. Right,

859
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to pretend that I'm this deep intelligence insider.

860
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 2: It could have just been somebody who was adjacent to

861
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 2: the business, But then the other theories would have to

862
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 2: be it could have been what it looked like, somebody

863
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 2: from the intelligence community. Look, this one is the least likely,

864
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 2: but it could have been the phenomenon people keep reporting

865
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 2: is a jokester sometimes, so maybe that was a joke

866
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 2: that the phenomenon thought they'd play on us. Yeah.

867
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: I think anytime we're getting into fans or cosplay or

868
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: anything like that, we have to remember that the show

869
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: hadn't come out yet, and that the script wasn't available publicly.

870
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: So it's hard to imagine that somebody just out in

871
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: the general public knew enough about what we were doing

872
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: that they could have pranked us.

873
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: I will say too, that the saving.

874
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: Grace in all of this for me was that they

875
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: came to your house and not mine, So I had

876
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: the wire taps.

877
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 2: That was my burden. Yew come you have strange postcards

878
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: coming to your place. I'm getting postcards. I got guys

879
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 2: crashing my party. Listen, Here's how I would put it.

880
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: I had my thoughts about this when it happened, and

881
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 2: you and I shared those, and we didn't share them

882
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 2: widely with other people because I think we didn't quite

883
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 2: know what to make of it, and we didn't have

884
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 2: a lot of time. People just need to understand if

885
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 2: you've got six scripts to write at the same time

886
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: that you're supposed to be producing a two hour film,

887
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: you don't have a lot of time to mole things.

888
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: You just have to accept them and move on. But

889
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 2: here are my observations with thirty years. First, we created

890
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 2: a fictional letter from our hero John Lownguard, and then

891
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 2: the mailbox acted like it had read it. That's the

892
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 2: part that's so strange to me. And the first card

893
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 2: really didn't leave room for interpretation. It wasn't Hello, it

894
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: was we see you, So it wasn't you didn't have

895
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 2: to moul what exactly it was getting at We see you.

896
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 2: Don't think we're not aware of what you're up to.

897
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: And the prank thing, Brent, I got to tell you,

898
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 2: if that was a prank, then somebody showing up with

899
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 2: an airhorn at your house at three am in the

900
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 2: morning is just a prankster, because that's how it felt

901
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 2: to me. It just felt like, I'm not happy that

902
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 2: whoever did this did it. And then I guess my

903
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 2: ultimate conclusion is we were making a show about a

904
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,760
Speaker 2: shadow government, and then somebody out there mailed us a shadow.

905
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,720
Speaker 1: Oh Well said, look, I think another thing to consider

906
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: here is we're talking about this some thirty years later,

907
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: and if it was a prank of any kind, no

908
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: one ever came forward, no one ever got the satisfaction

909
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: of saying, Hey, I got you, guys, I tricked you.

910
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: And so I think, as we come to the end

911
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: of the episode, I want to use this moment, this

912
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: platform to say to anyone out there, whether you were

913
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: a friend, whether you were part of the inner circle

914
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: and executive at the network or the studio, or part of.

915
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,919
Speaker 2: The crew, maybe you were just a fan.

916
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: Maybe you were, like Bryce said, a couseplayer, somebody that

917
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: knew a little bit about what was going on in

918
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: inside Hollywood and you wanted to punk us. Please come

919
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 1: forward and claim this prank. Tell us that you sent

920
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: the postcards, and if you can prove it, because we

921
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: would love to close this case. This was just this

922
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 1: is yet another enigma that's hanging over us, and this

923
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 1: is one in which, as Bryce said, we didn't even

924
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: remember that there was any significance to this until we

925
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: decided to do the podcast and now so I'm starting

926
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: to wonder what else are we going to find that's

927
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: going to dredge up all of these other memories and

928
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: create another wave of paranoia connections happen.

929
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 2: I'll just close with this thought. One card is a threat,

930
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 2: two cards is a relationship, Right if they came from

931
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 2: the same person. Somebody was saying we see you and

932
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,720
Speaker 2: you don't see us, and they're also saying we approve

933
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 2: of what you're doing. Which what were we doing. We

934
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 2: were telling a story about the UFO cover up and

935
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 2: that we're proud of you for doing that. I didn't

936
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 2: ask for anybody's pride, so I don't know about that. Listen.

937
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: I'd love to keep chatting some more, but I got

938
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 2: to go out and check my mail, and you know what,

939
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 2: maybe good luck with that. Maybe we should just hold

940
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 2: off on that sound. Light and Frequency is an iHeart

941
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 2: podcast produced by Stellar Productions. It's executive produced by Nick

942
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 2: Johnson and for Stellar Jackie's Abel. Our show's music was

943
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 2: written by Anna Stumf and Hamilton Lighthauser and your hosts

944
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 2: and executive producers are Bryce Sable, That's me and Brent Friedman.

945
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 2: Watch the Skies

946
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 1: MHM,