Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done, Yay.
Speaker 2: Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Lisa and I'm Kara, and you guys hopefully know
Speaker 1: what we do. We talk about an episode of Law
Speaker 1: and Order SVU, we talk about the true crime it
Speaker 1: was based on, and then we interview a cool Cat
Speaker 1: from the episode I'm into jazz now, I say cool.
Speaker 4: Cat, my cool cat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know my friend from my friend from high
Speaker 1: school who's like very cool. He started a sparkling wine
Speaker 1: spritzer called cool Cat. This is not a paid advertisement.
Speaker 1: Oh he sent me some and it's delicious.
Speaker 2: I do remember that, but I like that as a
Speaker 2: term for our guests too. Yeah, having at school.
Speaker 1: But speaking of cool, I really want to know what
Speaker 1: Europe to. I know that you're at your You're in
Speaker 1: Chicago because you went to your niece's graduation. I just
Speaker 1: saw on your Instagram that she made a speech.
Speaker 4: I had no idea, so she was trying to surprise us.
Speaker 2: And then of course, one of her brothers filled the
Speaker 2: beans like like a day.
Speaker 4: Before, you know.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so a few people gave speeches. It's not classic.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a small Jewish school, so there's only
Speaker 2: forty kids graduating, maybe forty really Yeah.
Speaker 4: So Avoctor Troit.
Speaker 2: There was like a couple welcome speeches, one in English,
Speaker 2: one in Hebrew, some other guy I don't know, and
Speaker 2: then she did the She was the last one to speak,
Speaker 2: so they all got diplomas and then she was the
Speaker 2: closing speech. Whoa the closer, the closer, and she truly
Speaker 2: killed it.
Speaker 4: Ben She was like, I was tearing up.
Speaker 2: I was like I was teering, like it was such
Speaker 2: a good speech and it wasn't basic.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't want to judge the other kids.
Speaker 2: I some of her classmates do listen to the podcast,
Speaker 2: so I think I have to watch it when I say,
Speaker 2: but listen, her speech was incredible. Everyone else was generic.
Speaker 2: Like one girl was like, you know, I was at
Speaker 2: it was Israel and it was Golden Hour and I
Speaker 2: didn't have my phone and that's when I realized I
Speaker 2: have to be present.
Speaker 4: And it's like, okay, bitch, that's like.
Speaker 2: Not that's what you decided to go with, Like it
Speaker 2: was like so basic, like we're such a community.
Speaker 4: And then my niece just like nailed it.
Speaker 2: She was like, don't be conformist, so you can all
Speaker 2: reach your full potential and all about individual.
Speaker 4: But then she did mention the Holocaust.
Speaker 2: And I started laughing because I don't know if we
Speaker 2: have to talk about the Holocaust, but it was really funny.
Speaker 2: And then when I told her I laughed. She was like,
Speaker 2: what what do you mean. I was like, it's just
Speaker 2: fun that you said. You mentioned the Holocaust to me,
Speaker 2: But it made sense because you know, she just mentioned
Speaker 2: that were under attack. My mom just read an article
Speaker 2: in the AARP about anti Semitism. Because she didn't believe me.
Speaker 2: I was telling her Florida's whack and she was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know. And then AARP came and she.
Speaker 1: Was like, wait, okay, I'll take it from AARP. I'll
Speaker 1: take it from them.
Speaker 2: She's like, do people hate the juice?
Speaker 4: But it was like lovely. I mean, the rest of
Speaker 4: it was so boring.
Speaker 2: It was really hard to stay alive, like I you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know how because my other niece, she graduated
Speaker 2: from a big public school my sister and niece went
Speaker 2: to her graduation, a thousand graduating care Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, at least you only had to
Speaker 1: hear forty names. I mean, I went to what I
Speaker 1: consider a pretty small and it was two hundred of
Speaker 1: us per class.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh the kid the two kids from the class that
Speaker 2: were reading the people's names, they deserve a movie, like
Speaker 2: they should have a ghost World style movie. They were
Speaker 2: so funny to me, I mean, and then I had
Speaker 2: to really pee, you know, I pe a lot. And
Speaker 2: so there was a cameraman and he walked away for
Speaker 2: a second. So I was like, oh, this is my
Speaker 2: shot to like walk quickly, and I accidentally blocked the
Speaker 2: grandmother taping her granddaughter's speech.
Speaker 1: Well, she was like, you know, a little video of
Speaker 1: internet sensation Lisa Traeger now to show everybody.
Speaker 4: He was like, I got to be.
Speaker 2: And then my sister said she slapped my ass on
Speaker 2: the way back into the aisle, but I didn't feel it.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, but as your your sister slapped
Speaker 1: your ass or the old lady did the old lady
Speaker 1: did oo.
Speaker 4: But I didn't feel it.
Speaker 2: But then we went to a brewery in Skokie, called sketchbook,
Speaker 2: and we sat outside and ordered Vietnamese food like takeaway.
Speaker 4: And had a nice little special day. It was cute.
Speaker 2: She I'm proud of her nice and guess what, shout
Speaker 2: out to her father. So she got some money from
Speaker 2: her university, but Elan wanted more and wrote like a
Speaker 2: really nice email and they gave her more money.
Speaker 4: My college.
Speaker 2: Yes, He's like, listen, she wants to go there. We
Speaker 2: have other kids going to college this and that, and
Speaker 2: they're like, here's wow.
Speaker 4: And I was, but this is him.
Speaker 2: This is totally him because my dad goes can't everyone
Speaker 2: do that? And it's like, yeah, but not everyone is him?
Speaker 1: Yeah you ask, Yeah, you got to ask because when
Speaker 1: we were what you want, because when we were young,
Speaker 1: the way we got Oprah tickets was he wrote a
Speaker 1: letter saying we loved Susan Sarandon and Richard Geartt and
Speaker 1: that's how we got the tickets. I guess he's always
Speaker 1: writing these letters. I had no idea he's a letter.
Speaker 1: He's a campaign letter letter man.
Speaker 4: I love that. Yeah, I don't know. It was cute.
Speaker 2: And then today she was supposed to join my parents
Speaker 2: and I for lunch, but she stayed out till three
Speaker 2: in the morning.
Speaker 4: Oh excuse me, party girl.
Speaker 1: Maybe she is ready for Trinity after all, but she's
Speaker 1: a sober Sally. I know, that's what That's the only
Speaker 1: reason I'm saying. Because Trinity was such a drunk fest
Speaker 1: for me that I'm like, maybe Tali is not gonna
Speaker 1: like the drinking part of it.
Speaker 4: But she's out till three. She can hang.
Speaker 1: Maybe she'll figure it out. Does she ever do a
Speaker 1: gummy or anything. No, she's very liking into it. It's
Speaker 1: just sweet. It was wholesome. I keep using that word wholesome.
Speaker 2: And in New York I went to Coney Island whole
Speaker 2: sum Memorial Day weekend, families enjoying themselves. It was like,
Speaker 2: it's what I want to be in America for everyone
Speaker 2: of different like everyone looks different, all different families having
Speaker 2: a good time at the beach and the like on
Speaker 2: Coney Island. And I've just had like a really wholesome
Speaker 2: week I guess, Oh, nice.
Speaker 4: I'm so happy to hear it. You'll be happy. Oh.
Speaker 2: I saw a woman with a bearded dragon and a leash,
Speaker 2: and you know I love that. Well, on my way
Speaker 2: to the bathroom, so I get back to the boardwalk
Speaker 2: bar where me and our friends were at, you know,
Speaker 2: on Coney and I go up to them and I go,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I saw a bearded dragon and next
Speaker 2: to me was a little child getting water.
Speaker 4: And he turned to me, he goes, that's my bearded dragon.
Speaker 2: So cute, and so he like made his mom come
Speaker 2: over and then we all got to pet the beard
Speaker 2: a dragon.
Speaker 4: He was like, so cute. Oh that's so sweet. Youah,
Speaker 4: just wholesome. Waiting in line for Rye.
Speaker 2: I mean I was blacked out drunk by that point,
Speaker 2: but uh it's fun.
Speaker 1: Well I'll tell you who I need your brother in
Speaker 1: law to write a campaign letter to because I'm an
Speaker 1: a sorry let me guess non story fucking six Flags
Speaker 1: Great Adventure, six Flags Magic Mountain. If you've been following
Speaker 1: my thaga of how my phone fell out of my
Speaker 1: pocket on a roller coaster, my fault, I forgot to
Speaker 1: zip the pocket, but still I didn't think it would
Speaker 1: be vortext out by the X two roller coaster. I
Speaker 1: called multiple times, it was never found. They finally I
Speaker 1: tweeted they got back to me with this VIP. So
Speaker 1: a person has been writing me back. The same person
Speaker 1: am saying, okay, what's your Imei number. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: maybe they're getting somewhere. After I send all this stuff,
Speaker 1: he goes, unfortunately, we've been unable to locate it.
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: Four days later, this past weekend Saturday, I wake up
Speaker 1: my phone has cause I got a notification from find
Speaker 1: my iPhone my phone has been turned on. It is
Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, and I immediately Google my phone is
Speaker 1: in Hong Kong. The first thing I get is this
Speaker 1: guy in Reddit being like, my phone was stolen last
Speaker 1: month in London, and now I'm seeing it's a X
Speaker 1: address in Hong Kong. My phone was at the same address,
Speaker 1: so this is clearly like some kind of warehouse of
Speaker 1: reselling iPhones that's in Hong Kong. It has since moved
Speaker 1: to another address. I can still see where it is.
Speaker 1: I've erased it. But they're gonna just like jail break
Speaker 1: it and like sell it to the Philippines, according to
Speaker 1: everybody on Reddit who knows.
Speaker 4: But I'm just so annoyed because did a six fly.
Speaker 3: You do this?
Speaker 4: Did six flags? Is this like a like an f
Speaker 4: like a I don't.
Speaker 1: Think it was like a conspiracy it definitely happens, because
Speaker 1: a lot of people were writing about it online and
Speaker 1: saying that this has happened, but.
Speaker 4: Is it always in six Flags?
Speaker 1: Well, a lot of people were saying Magic Mountain specifically,
Speaker 1: and a bunch of people were saying other six Flags
Speaker 1: and stuff too. It was kind of hard to find
Speaker 1: because you have to look up like lost phone, six
Speaker 1: Flags scam or whatever, because otherwise you just get like
Speaker 1: a bunch of people saying, I lost my PHONEX, but
Speaker 1: I think it's employees. I was like, I think you
Speaker 1: guys need to pay your teens more like I think
Speaker 1: that the teen's like, I know, my phone was on
Speaker 1: for thirty six hours, so it did not break in
Speaker 1: the fall. So whenever they found it, they were like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a twelve and it's on. Let's wait until
Speaker 1: the battery dies and I'll ship it to China and
Speaker 1: get some money. I'm fucking pissed. I want them to
Speaker 1: pay for it. They won't, but I've been I wrote
Speaker 1: it on my stories and a bunch.
Speaker 4: Of people are like, go to small claims court against
Speaker 4: six Flags, and I'm like, I don't know if I
Speaker 4: can afford all that.
Speaker 2: I just wonder if it's like you think it's the teens,
Speaker 2: not a huge conspiracy.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a huge conspiracy because a bunch
Speaker 1: of people in the reddit were like, I have gotten
Speaker 1: my phone back from six Flags before.
Speaker 4: Maybe shittier phones. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say I had the nicest phone on
Speaker 1: the planet, but it was a twelve. I had just
Speaker 1: gotten it a few months earlier, so that sucks.
Speaker 2: But also, finally you'll get a new one, Jesus, this
Speaker 2: one you've been using is finally.
Speaker 1: It's a piece of shit. It's my friend's old phone,
Speaker 1: and it's like it holds a charge for about five minutes.
Speaker 1: But I also had a wholesome birthday party for Oscar.
Speaker 1: He got his little Mawana cake, he got his little
Speaker 1: Mauana balloons. He was over the moon. He was so happy.
Speaker 1: He got his bounce house. At one point at the
Speaker 1: end of the party, he was just going around eating
Speaker 1: pizza and cake wherever he found it, like whoever's piece
Speaker 1: was just on the ground. He was just hoovering up
Speaker 1: everything and I think he was having a blast. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a fun time. And did I do anything else?
Speaker 1: Not really, Since I've seen you any other highlights of
Speaker 1: the party. No, it was like just a bunch of
Speaker 1: funny kids running around and like it was a very
Speaker 1: low key. I liked it because it was like half
Speaker 1: the size of rosies. Like it wasn't as many people
Speaker 1: at all, and it was just like nice, I ordered
Speaker 1: too much pizza, but you know, Jared's making his way
Speaker 1: through a bag of cold pizza right now, and uh
Speaker 1: that's all.
Speaker 4: But yeah, not real highlights, folks wrote I.
Speaker 2: Did like so's the Summerhouse Reunion aired and one of
Speaker 2: the people on it said, well, I'd rather be nuts
Speaker 2: than boring to one of the other people.
Speaker 4: Lindsay said this to Page.
Speaker 2: So I storied it and guess who responded, Lindsey age
Speaker 2: So Lindsay would Page. I didn't tag her, ID tag Lindsay.
Speaker 2: She just wrote lol. So that was a huge moment
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 4: I love that. I'm team Lindsay.
Speaker 2: Well, it's so funny because one of the main accounts
Speaker 2: I should shout her out, honestly, CC right, I mean,
Speaker 2: she's given us so much.
Speaker 4: All right, I'm gonna look her up. I like that.
Speaker 2: I don't even have to scroll. It's the first thing
Speaker 2: that pops up on my life, so c C I
Speaker 2: so CC dot loves Dot You is my favorite Bravo
Speaker 2: account that I've been following.
Speaker 4: What flag is? This? Is she in France or Russia? Like,
Speaker 4: what flag is? I don't know what flag it is.
Speaker 1: I know she's from another country because I've heard her
Speaker 1: talk and she has an accent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so CC is amazing, But she's just mostly been
Speaker 2: posting vander Palm and it unites people and now you know,
Speaker 2: the Summerhouse and Jersey reunions and she's like, oh no,
Speaker 2: she's like vander Pump.
Speaker 4: We're all united.
Speaker 2: But I've just like I can't handle the the discourse
Speaker 2: of the Jersey Summerhouse because everyone it's just so volatile
Speaker 2: and so clearly two teams, you know, yes, because anyone
Speaker 2: that seems Sandoval is like damaged, you know, unfortunately they had.
Speaker 4: A horrible life. It's very clear we're all.
Speaker 1: She talked about that because Lisa has of course gotten
Speaker 1: me to follow this woman Ceci, so I do follow
Speaker 1: her now as well. And she's like, it's interesting because
Speaker 1: the scandival, it's like we're all basically on the same team.
Speaker 1: There's a couple unhinged wackos, but then with Summerhouse, which
Speaker 1: I don't even watch, but I know what's going on
Speaker 1: through pure osmosis and through Bravo mem accounts, is fully
Speaker 1: like it's divided. I feel like some people hate Lindsay
Speaker 1: and Carl, some people love them, some people like Page.
Speaker 4: Well, the Bravo universe has no like Nuance ever.
Speaker 2: But it's just like just because one person is work
Speaker 2: doesn't mean the other person is innocent of everything. Cause
Speaker 2: I got into it in the The Girls, like did
Speaker 2: you not watch Season one? Like no, No, one's saying
Speaker 2: she's not nuts, but she's right this season. She is correct.
Speaker 2: Whether you like her or not, what is happening is wrong.
Speaker 2: So I just think sometimes with Bravo, they're not like
Speaker 2: Bravo fans are just the stands.
Speaker 4: It's like the beehive of it all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people are coming for Page because she said the
Speaker 1: whole thing about how they got their wedding thing in
Speaker 1: People magazine and that it must have been premeditated. And
Speaker 1: then the People Magazine article writer was like, I actually
Speaker 1: just wrote really fast when I saw that they got engaged.
Speaker 2: Like it's just like I love that, like for People
Speaker 2: Magazine to be like, no, you're wrong, because Page kept
Speaker 2: also saying like I know how People magazine works, and
Speaker 2: I love that. The writer got to be like, if
Speaker 2: you'd like us to explain, Yeah.
Speaker 1: He's like, I guess Page doesn't really know how People
Speaker 1: magazine works. Yeah, my old friend, Page, my old almost cousin, paget.
Speaker 4: I forgot someone dated Page, my cousin.
Speaker 1: I've met her a couple of times, but a way
Speaker 1: pre her being on a reality show, for sure. It's
Speaker 1: just you know, we're all we all watch reality television
Speaker 1: for entertainment, and Paige and a few of other girls
Speaker 1: on the season are very boring. They don't do anything,
Speaker 1: they don't fight, and then they come alive at the reunion.
Speaker 4: It's like where was this energy? Where was it?
Speaker 1: I don't watch, but like what I see a lot
Speaker 1: is like Page in bed with like a bunch of
Speaker 1: other girls, like and they're always just like lying in
Speaker 1: bed chatting, and the fact.
Speaker 2: Of the matter is like, let's say Lindsay's a bad
Speaker 2: person or drunk or whatever. Kyle also Trinity University grad,
Speaker 2: Trinity College. He's the worst of them all and no
Speaker 2: one cares. It's like, I don't know whatever, I'm not
Speaker 2: getting into this. This is not Bravo. Let's get it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we're starting the pod. We're starting wait, wait.
Speaker 4: Really quickly before we keep get going on the pod. Guys,
Speaker 4: it's uh.
Speaker 1: This episode's coming out six thirteen. That means that in
Speaker 1: two days you can see us in Tempe, Arizona. Baby,
Speaker 1: you still have time to get tick. We love going there.
Speaker 1: We had a great time last time. If you came
Speaker 1: last time, don't be scared to come again. We're doing
Speaker 1: a different episode. We're gonna have different games. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be a different show, and I think we have different
Speaker 1: merch than when we came last time as well. Also
Speaker 1: on the twenty fifth, we will be in Denver, baby,
Speaker 1: at the Comedy Works, which is another amazing club. We
Speaker 1: love you Denver gals and guys. And the old lady
Speaker 1: who came to the last show and said, who are
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler on her way out, Please, if you're listening,
Speaker 1: come back. I hope you figured it out and that
Speaker 1: you come back to the show. And then finally on
Speaker 1: the twenty ninth, we'll be in La. I'm running into
Speaker 1: you guys on the street in La and I'm going
Speaker 1: see you at the live show. I better see you guys,
Speaker 1: your little butts. I know it's cool to stay in
Speaker 1: in La and do self care. This is self care.
Speaker 1: Come to the fucking Bourbon Room and come see our shows.
Speaker 1: All of our ticket links are at thats messed up
Speaker 1: live dot com.
Speaker 4: And here's news for me.
Speaker 2: I'll be doing stand up in Arizona June seventeenth and
Speaker 2: eighteenth with Anisha from Family Karma. Yes huge, so she'll
Speaker 2: be opening those shows. So that'll be thrilling. Hopefully we
Speaker 2: get on and I get some good gossip for all
Speaker 2: of you. And then June twenty sixth, they'll be doing
Speaker 2: stand up in Denver. So yeah, so come make it
Speaker 2: a bang bang.
Speaker 1: Come see the pod, come see Liza, and uh yeah,
Speaker 1: let's get going.
Speaker 4: We've got to friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, bring friends, bring drag alongs. You guys know, people
Speaker 1: love it when they come to our show. Uh, even
Speaker 1: if they've never listened to the pod. We we convert
Speaker 1: people one by one at the live shows.
Speaker 4: Oh and guess what I used while I packed this trip.
Speaker 2: My new keem Chichi Kimchi uh makeup bag that I
Speaker 2: got at Dragon and it.
Speaker 4: Is fighting so good. I'm ex well. I can't wait
Speaker 4: to see it when we're traveling. It's so much.
Speaker 2: It's pink, it's cute, it's perfect. I love everything. Okay,
Speaker 2: we're starting, all right, guys, we're starting. Don't go anywhere,
Speaker 2: all right.
Speaker 1: We are tackling Alien today, Season seven, episode even.
Speaker 4: This is an episode from two thousand and five.
Speaker 1: We open on what looks like a gold Ford tourist
Speaker 1: hauling ass on the streets of New York City, cutting
Speaker 1: people off, almost hitting people, turning into an emergency room
Speaker 1: drop off, pushing a body out of the passenger.
Speaker 4: Seat, and then taking off.
Speaker 1: And the victim who's lying on the ground is an
Speaker 1: unconscious young boy with a lot of blood on his
Speaker 1: white button down. Doctors come running, so now in the
Speaker 1: hospital later, Munch is briefing Benson and Stabler. The kid's
Speaker 1: name is Sean Hamill and he's a fifth grader at
Speaker 1: Saint Victor's, so damn he'd be like eleven years old,
Speaker 1: which is that's wild.
Speaker 4: He's got a.
Speaker 1: Single stab wound to the back. The er noticed bruising
Speaker 1: on his chest and buttocks, so they called SVU. The
Speaker 1: doctor comes up to tell them that Sean is out
Speaker 1: of surgery and it is surf for dude.
Speaker 4: Doctor who we've talked about before.
Speaker 1: He's doctor Kyle Beresford, played by Stephen Gregory, who unfortunately
Speaker 1: has left the business as of his last episode of SVU,
Speaker 1: which was in twenty eleven. I didn't realize this guy
Speaker 1: was in eighteen episodes, like he's been in five or
Speaker 1: six episodes that we've covered.
Speaker 4: But he is the surfer guy that we talk about
Speaker 4: that it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: He works in a New York City hospital and they're
Speaker 1: in the hospital room now with Sean and his parents.
Speaker 4: Sean has a big bandage on his head. It's a
Speaker 4: nod and all the.
Speaker 1: Way around kind though, it's just a large rectangular bandage.
Speaker 1: So he doesn't get to be in the special club
Speaker 1: with Amber Stevens West and Abigail Breslin. So the hospital
Speaker 1: has obviously not paid their electrical bill because the room
Speaker 1: is pitch. It's dark, like there's not a light to
Speaker 1: be seen. I think of hospital rooms as bright fluorescent lights.
Speaker 1: This child is lying in the shadows. He remembers putting
Speaker 1: books in his locker and then playing stickball like it's
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty and then the mom says a bully's been
Speaker 1: picking on him.
Speaker 4: Last week.
Speaker 1: He came home covered in bruises, and Sean says, no,
Speaker 1: I was climbing a tree and I fell, and the
Speaker 1: mom goes, no way, it's a bully, and he's scared
Speaker 1: to say who. And the kid is like, can I
Speaker 1: talk later, Let's just let me out of here. I
Speaker 1: just want to go home, and that's when he realizes
Speaker 1: he can't move his legs. He starts crying his parents,
Speaker 1: why can I move my legs? The parents look devastated,
Speaker 1: and we're at the credits off of a paralyzed fifth
Speaker 1: grader top of Act one. The detectives are at Saint
Speaker 1: Victor's and a priest is telling them that the principle
Speaker 1: has a zero tolerance policy for fighting and it's one fight.
Speaker 4: And you're expelled.
Speaker 1: Seems very harsh, and the principal heard the tree climbing story,
Speaker 1: so she's like, I don't even know anything about Sean
Speaker 1: getting bullied.
Speaker 4: He's a dumb ass for climbing a tree.
Speaker 1: And then Stabler drops the bomb that Sean was stabbed
Speaker 1: and is now paralyzed and they need to talk to
Speaker 1: anyone who had contact with Sean that day, starting with you, father, Justin,
Speaker 1: and he goes, I didn't see Sean and Live is like, well,
Speaker 1: that's weird because he was dumped at the er out
Speaker 1: of your car. Done done, and he's like, that's impossible.
Speaker 1: My car was in the parking lot all day and
Speaker 1: father and the Principle's like, no, Father, Justin was in
Speaker 1: the library correcting papers all afternoon. But he admits, I
Speaker 1: leave my keys on the visor so parishioners can borrow it.
Speaker 1: Very generous, very priestly. We cut to the cutest SVU
Speaker 1: interview ever. Finn is like bent down talking to this
Speaker 1: cute little girl who's like one time a big boy
Speaker 1: push Sean down and it's like it's just really cute.
Speaker 1: She's like I don't remember his name, but he's bad.
Speaker 1: I saw him smoking, so cute. So now Stabler's talking
Speaker 1: to a teen who's like, if I spill tea, t
Speaker 1: is gonna get spilt on me, Like I'm not doing this.
Speaker 1: And then now Benson is talking to this dorky kid
Speaker 1: and he goes, just because I'm a recess monitor doesn't
Speaker 1: mean I'm a nark, and it's like that actually does
Speaker 1: it actually is exactly what you are as a recess monitor.
Speaker 4: You are an ARC.
Speaker 1: And Benson explains Sean is too scared to reveal who
Speaker 1: his bully is, and I can see that you're scared too,
Speaker 1: and he's like, I'm not a wuss, and then he's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: never mind.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you everything.
Speaker 1: There's a fat kid who pushes everyone around and he
Speaker 1: beat the crap out of Sean last week.
Speaker 4: His name is Charlie Monahan. Thanks Nark.
Speaker 1: So now we're talking to Charlie and his dad, and
Speaker 1: his dad is very familiar. His name is Adam Lefev.
Speaker 1: He's been in four episodes of SVU. This is his
Speaker 1: fourth one. This guy has like one hundred credits on IMDb.
Speaker 1: He's just in like one episode of every show you've
Speaker 1: ever seen, kind of and Charlie says Sean was making
Speaker 1: fun of me. Sean basically said, your girlfriend won't have
Speaker 1: sex with you because she's afraid you'll squash her. And
Speaker 1: he says he hasn't seen Sean since last week, and
Speaker 1: he goes, Emma can tell you I walked her home
Speaker 1: after a school yesterday and we stopped for ice cream.
Speaker 4: Emma is his half sister. It's his they have the
Speaker 4: same mom.
Speaker 1: But the dad is like, oh, it's my ex wife's daughter,
Speaker 1: So she's been staying with her grandparents since her mom
Speaker 1: got sick. So now we're at the grandparents' house and
Speaker 1: they are two very extremely white up at east stuffy
Speaker 1: looking grandparents, and we find out that Emma's been staying
Speaker 1: there a couple of days since her mom, Kate had
Speaker 1: to go back to the hospital because she has lupus.
Speaker 1: Emma's very cute. She's played by a girl named Raquel Castro,
Speaker 1: who also played Ben Affleck's daughter in Jersey Girl, which
Speaker 1: I've never seen.
Speaker 4: Have you seen that? I think I saw Jeelie, but
Speaker 4: not Jersey Yeah, but I feel like I saw both.
Speaker 4: I confuse those Jersey Girl.
Speaker 1: I can like see the cover of it, and I
Speaker 1: can see like a scene from it, but I don't
Speaker 1: think I've ever seen it. This girl also was a
Speaker 1: contestant on the Voice She was I believe chosen by
Speaker 1: Christina Aguilera or something, but she didn't make it very far.
Speaker 1: But she's very cute and she has a big Instagram following.
Speaker 1: I hope her music goes well. She's also wearing a
Speaker 1: very bad wig for most of this episode, which cannot
Speaker 1: be ignored. She backs up Charlie's story story kind of
Speaker 1: like Verbatim to Olivia the ice cream, the walk home,
Speaker 1: et cetera. And Stabler is immediately suspicious, like, why did
Speaker 1: you only tell us about after school? And the grandma'swhoops
Speaker 1: in and is like, the high school in the elementary
Speaker 1: school are separate, so that's the only time she would
Speaker 1: have seen her brother.
Speaker 4: Charlie.
Speaker 1: Then Live cuts to the chase and is like, did
Speaker 1: your brother ask you to lie? And she goes, no,
Speaker 1: lying is a sin. It's a vanilla sin, not the
Speaker 1: mortal kind. But all sins are bad and you have
Speaker 1: to never.
Speaker 4: Do them no matter what.
Speaker 1: Back at the sixteenth Precinct, they're filling in Kragan. They
Speaker 1: think little cutie Emma is lying her little wig off
Speaker 1: and they think that Charlie stabbed this kid, dumped him
Speaker 1: and had his sister Alibi in. Munch pops in with
Speaker 1: the rimes scene report. The lab got prints off of
Speaker 1: father Justin's car. They were all over the car, everywhere
Speaker 1: except the driver's side. So, however, this kid is they're
Speaker 1: pretty smart to be wiping prints off of a vehicle,
Speaker 1: is what Stabler says, and then Munch says they found
Speaker 1: something wedged under the passenger side it's a little piece
Speaker 1: of string or rope. Csu says, it's painter's canvas, which
Speaker 1: is what kids use at Saint Victor's for art. So
Speaker 1: in the art room they've got giant, big ass rolls
Speaker 1: of this canvas. So Munch and Finn think the purp
Speaker 1: wrapped shown up in the canvas to keep his blood
Speaker 1: out of the car. Then took him to the parking lot,
Speaker 1: which is only twenty yards from the art room. They
Speaker 1: think he dumped the canvas after returning the car, so
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to check the trash. Then Munch goes, hmm, interesting,
Speaker 1: do kids have access to these? And he's just like
Speaker 1: holding up scissors. It's like, yes, kids use scissors in
Speaker 1: art class, but like wild a mind just went immediately
Speaker 1: to scissors. And he says, crime scene needs to go
Speaker 1: through this room too, And then out of nowhere, CSU
Speaker 1: technician Millie visit Gorondo aka friend of the Pod Paula Garcis.
Speaker 1: She appears out of nowhere like truly appears out of
Speaker 1: thin air and goes, I'll bring in a team. But
Speaker 1: then she goes, but first I got something. I checked
Speaker 1: out this security footage at Marty's deli across from the school.
Speaker 1: Finn goes, what were you doing at Marty's? She goes,
Speaker 1: they got pixie sticks. I don't know why this exchange
Speaker 1: is happening. She could just be at a deli. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons to go to a deli. She
Speaker 1: found video of Charlie without Emma, buying a candy bar
Speaker 1: at the deli at four to two, but he said
Speaker 1: he walked dowmm A home at three o'clock.
Speaker 4: So what's going on now?
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler have Charlie and his dad in interrogation,
Speaker 1: threatening him with jail and if he gets tried as
Speaker 1: an adult, he'll get twenty years. Security Footage has you
Speaker 1: at the deli across from the school twenty minutes before
Speaker 1: Sean was dumped, and Charlie sticking to his story. Benson's like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: a Dreury is never gonna believe you, and then knock knock.
Speaker 1: Finn's got something. He did find another pair of scissors
Speaker 1: in the school dumpster with traces of blood in the blades.
Speaker 1: There are two prints on the scissors, but none of
Speaker 1: them are Charlie's. They can tell because they're small. They're
Speaker 1: the size of a seven or eight year old, and
Speaker 1: an eight year old doesn't know how to wipe prince
Speaker 1: or drive a car, so it looks like maybe Emma
Speaker 1: stabbed Charlie cleaned up, and he's lying to protect her,
Speaker 1: not the other way around.
Speaker 4: Done. Done. Top of AC two.
Speaker 1: We're back at the school and the principal is filling
Speaker 1: in Benson and Stabler that Emma's not at school that
Speaker 1: day because she's at the hospital with her mom, and
Speaker 1: she's like, just as well, and they're like, why is
Speaker 1: it just as well that she's missing school? And they're like,
Speaker 1: her situation's complicated. When her mother first enrolled her at
Speaker 1: Saint Victor, she told them she was a single parent,
Speaker 1: and she hid the fact that Emma actually has another
Speaker 1: mom and that Kate is gay.
Speaker 4: The mom is gay, and live is like, what's the
Speaker 4: big deal?
Speaker 1: Gay couples raise kids all the time, And the Principal's like, sure,
Speaker 1: but they don't lie about being gay and enroll their
Speaker 1: kids in a conservative Catholic school. And they didn't find
Speaker 1: out until Kate got sick and then the mom's partner
Speaker 1: started coming to school functions and the other parents freaked
Speaker 1: out and they didn't want their kids in the same
Speaker 1: class with the kid of a lesbian.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Like, what fucking year is it? That's
Speaker 4: so wild.
Speaker 1: So it is Catholic school though, So I don't know
Speaker 1: why any of this is shocking. Oh, let's see, it's
Speaker 1: like happening in public schools.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a teacher right now is in trouble because she
Speaker 2: showed a Disney movie with a gay character in it
Speaker 2: and the teachers are flipping out. So yeah, I think
Speaker 2: we've gone actually more backwards from this episode.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so fucking crazy.
Speaker 1: Well, so they basically at this school, they wanted to
Speaker 1: expel Emma after they found out, but the parent, because
Speaker 1: the parents were pulling the kids out of the school,
Speaker 1: donors were withdrawing support and live was like, how about
Speaker 1: ignoring them? And principal is like, yeah, but how do
Speaker 1: you teach Catechism with Emma in the classroom? Like homosexuality
Speaker 1: is the sin kids, But that's okay, Emma, your moms
Speaker 1: are good people otherwise, So that's a quote from the principal.
Speaker 1: The only reason they didn't expel Emma was because her
Speaker 1: parents sued the school, So she came back to Saint
Speaker 1: Victor's with a target on her back, and the Principal's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: so the less she's here the better. At the hot hospital,
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler see Emma sitting at her mom's bedside.
Speaker 1: They're stopped by Zoe, Emma's other mom played by Amy Pets,
Speaker 1: who I recognize from Caroline in the City, and she's like,
Speaker 1: Emma had nothing to do with what happened to Sean Hammill.
Speaker 4: I don't know if I've ever met an adult Zoey.
Speaker 1: Isn't that funny? My niece is named Zoe's. Well, we
Speaker 1: had Zoe Lister Jones on our podcast.
Speaker 4: Oh that's an adult Zoe. One adult Zoe. I just
Speaker 4: heard her on another podcast today and she was so funny.
Speaker 1: She's into housewives and vander Pump and everything, and she
Speaker 1: was being really, really funny about it.
Speaker 2: No, I say this all the time. I mean, Bravo
Speaker 2: connects people from coast to coast. It really is a
Speaker 2: buying a walk all walks of life, but mostly women
Speaker 2: and gay men.
Speaker 1: So she goes Emma had nothing to do with what
Speaker 1: happened to Sean Hammill, and Benson is like, the kids
Speaker 1: are covering for each other, Babe, we need to talk
Speaker 1: to Emma.
Speaker 4: And they're like, She's like, well, her mom is dying.
Speaker 4: Can this wait? And they're like it'll be quick.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Emma's talking to the detectives saying she didn't do anything.
Speaker 1: They're like, even if it's an accident, we got to
Speaker 1: know the truth. Did Sean say something mean to you?
Speaker 1: She goes he said I was a freak and I
Speaker 1: was going to go to hell because I have two moms.
Speaker 1: And Zoe is like, what did we talk about? Six
Speaker 1: and sticks and stones? And it's like, I think six
Speaker 1: and stones is kind of outdated now right, we've figured
Speaker 1: out that like language hurts people very deeply and that
Speaker 1: we have to deal with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a boomer saying, which is like ignoring
Speaker 2: how you feel and keep it moving. Yeah, yeah you
Speaker 2: actually matter, but adnoring. Yeah, it's ignoring feelings. It's not
Speaker 2: that words can't hurt me.
Speaker 4: They do her.
Speaker 1: We're pretending they don't to keep it moving. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: not the same as like a bruise from bumping into
Speaker 1: a wall. But when someone calls you a full freak
Speaker 1: and that you're going to go to hell, that shouldn't
Speaker 1: hurt you know. We know that Charlie drove Sean to
Speaker 1: the hospital. If you don't tell us what happened, he's
Speaker 1: going to get in a ton of trouble. And so
Speaker 1: then Stabler asks, like the mom Zoe, like, if kids
Speaker 1: are so mean, why did you send her there? And
Speaker 1: Zoe goes, our faith is important to us. We want
Speaker 1: her to have a Catholic education. I bump on that
Speaker 1: a little bit. I don't understand why you would want
Speaker 1: to have someone educated in a church that tells them
Speaker 1: that you're sinning.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and if you want it for whatever cultural reasons,
Speaker 2: there's Sunday's school.
Speaker 4: Yeah, church, there's tutors.
Speaker 2: Like to put her in an environment where it's hell,
Speaker 2: makes no fucking sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it also I guess it's because for a
Speaker 1: while it was it was all fine because she was
Speaker 1: a secret and it's only become hell in the last
Speaker 1: six months.
Speaker 4: But still like not great.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I know the Catholic schools aren' less expensive
Speaker 1: than private schools, but so that could be a reason.
Speaker 1: But Stabler goes, it's not much of an education when
Speaker 1: the kids are bothering her, And Zoe goes, she can
Speaker 1: handle it.
Speaker 4: She goes to therapy.
Speaker 1: She can talk to me, if she has problems, and
Speaker 1: then they ask Zoe, well, where were you then, like
Speaker 1: the night that the afternoon that this kid got stabbed,
Speaker 1: and she was like, I was at the hospital with Kate.
Speaker 4: You think I did it?
Speaker 1: So now at the precinct, Craigan's like, why can't you
Speaker 1: get the truth out of this traumatized eight year old?
Speaker 1: He's very upset, and they're like, Daddy Craig and her
Speaker 1: mom is dying in the next room. It's not easy
Speaker 1: to break an eighty year old who's going through all
Speaker 1: this stuff. And they're like, and she's been through a
Speaker 1: ton in the last six months since her moms took
Speaker 1: her school to court. The family's been harassed, they've changed
Speaker 1: their number twice, they've had broken windows, graffiti on their doors.
Speaker 1: Zoe has filed six reports. No one has been charged.
Speaker 1: And then Munch goes, since when did New York become
Speaker 1: a red state? And Olivia is like, it's not just here,
Speaker 1: and she references a case in California. There was, in
Speaker 1: fact a case just like this in January of two
Speaker 1: thousand and five, so the same year that this episode
Speaker 1: came out, where a young gay couple enrolled their kindergarten
Speaker 1: twins in Catholic school in clost To Mesa, which is
Speaker 1: in the OC Orange County, California, and the parents all
Speaker 1: at the school all went nuts, but the school rejected
Speaker 1: their demands and said, because if you reject children based
Speaker 1: on parents, will we also have to ban students with
Speaker 1: divorced parents, or parents who used birth control, or parents
Speaker 1: who mixed fabrics or whatever other crazy shit there is
Speaker 1: in the Bible. I mean, there's all kinds of archaic
Speaker 1: stuff in the Bible. And then also a lesbian couple
Speaker 1: in Oregon in the year before in July of two
Speaker 1: thousand and four suit a Catholic school claiming that their
Speaker 1: daughter was rejected from the school because of quote their lifestyle,
Speaker 1: which I mean, no one even says that anymore. The
Speaker 1: school argued the child wasn't quote behaviorally suitable for the school,
Speaker 1: which is bullshit. I can't actually find out what happened
Speaker 1: with this lawsuit, so if anyone knows, there was no
Speaker 1: current updated information anyway.
Speaker 4: Back to this case.
Speaker 2: I just can't get sending your kid to a place
Speaker 2: where they are not wanted. Yeah, yeah, the school doesn't
Speaker 2: want your kid.
Speaker 4: What are you? Who can right? Why are you forcing
Speaker 4: it right?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't send my kid who can't sing or act
Speaker 1: or has no interest in the arts into a performing
Speaker 1: arts high school, you know what I mean. It's like,
Speaker 1: it just seems like that's even like a like a
Speaker 1: lazier example, because it's not like the school is teaching
Speaker 1: them that because you can't sing or dance, you're less
Speaker 1: of a person or you deserve to go to hell.
Speaker 1: But Stabler argues that Emma would have been better off
Speaker 1: pretending she just had one mom and going on with
Speaker 1: a lie. And Benson's like, so Zoe has to stay
Speaker 1: in the closet to make homophobes happy.
Speaker 4: And then he goes, you don't send your kid to.
Speaker 1: Military school if you're a pacifist, not without expecting some friction.
Speaker 4: I'm team Stabler. I guess I get his point here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like he's he's Catholic. He's like, yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1: But he also, you know later, he's got some good
Speaker 1: Catholic facts. So Olivia goes, so you agree with the school,
Speaker 1: and Stablers like, it's complicated. Being Catholic means believing certain things,
Speaker 1: and Zoe knows that. And then somebody goes, but she
Speaker 1: wanted to make a point and win one for the cause,
Speaker 1: and Munch goes, somebody's got to fight the fight, and
Speaker 1: Finn goes, but it shouldn't be an eight year old,
Speaker 1: and I agree with that. He points out Emma is
Speaker 1: so messed up she goes to therapy twice a week.
Speaker 1: And Craigan points out that Zoe's luds show multiple calls
Speaker 1: to one number, Father Justin, So is it possible she
Speaker 1: borrowed his car?
Speaker 4: Let's go find out.
Speaker 1: So now they're talking to Father Justin and he's like,
Speaker 1: Zoe's never called me ever once and he goes, I
Speaker 1: gave the number to Emma when she first started having problems.
Speaker 1: He says she mentioned Sean Hammill all the time. He
Speaker 1: picked on her every chance he got. The priest talked
Speaker 1: to Sean, leaded with him, begged him to stop teasing her.
Speaker 1: Nothing worked. He even called his parents and got censured
Speaker 1: for it. I don't understand why. He says he likes
Speaker 1: being a priest, but he's very close to having his
Speaker 1: faculties removed by the church, which I guess is getting
Speaker 1: like priest fired. And he said he didn't want the
Speaker 1: school to get bad pressed. So he says, like He
Speaker 1: kind of wishes there was more he could have done,
Speaker 1: but he was hoping that Charlie's beating would get Sean
Speaker 1: to back off of Emma, and it did for one week,
Speaker 1: but he was just planning the next horrible thing he
Speaker 1: was going to do to Emma. Father Justin pulls out
Speaker 1: an envelope and inside he says, after you guys talk
Speaker 1: to me. I went to the art room and this
Speaker 1: is what I found, and he pulls out Emma's freaking ponytail.
Speaker 1: It's like a long, like seven inches of hair with
Speaker 1: a butterfly clip still attached to it, which Sean probably
Speaker 1: cut off to torture this little girl. Back at the
Speaker 1: extremely dim hospital room, detectives are talking to Sean again
Speaker 1: and they're like, do you remember seeing Emma that afternoon?
Speaker 1: And he goes, yeah, I think she was there, but
Speaker 1: I didn't really talk to her. Sabler goes, did your
Speaker 1: or pick on her? And he goes, I only bother
Speaker 1: her because she's so weird. Her mom's a lesbian.
Speaker 4: It's wrong. Homosexuality is the sin.
Speaker 1: He like, can't even say it right, and then Stablers like,
Speaker 1: I don't remember seeing that in the Bible, but.
Speaker 4: That's what's crazy about these people.
Speaker 2: It's like they're like, oh, groomy, oh, we got to
Speaker 2: protect her kids from sexuality and gay shit, and yet
Speaker 2: why does a little kid even know to hate a homosexual?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's like, you can't teach kids the existence of gay people,
Speaker 2: but you can teach them to hate gay people. That
Speaker 2: makes no sense, right, yeah, fucking crazy, Like gay people exist,
Speaker 2: and you could there's two options, be chill or not chill,
Speaker 2: and you're people be choosing not chill all the time,
Speaker 2: all the time.
Speaker 4: I this just occurs to me.
Speaker 2: It's like you're letting you think hating gay people is
Speaker 2: more appropriate for a child than just knowing gay people exist.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's what this kid thinks.
Speaker 1: And that's why he thinks this girl is weird because
Speaker 1: she's just related to two lesbians and that must make
Speaker 1: her a lesbian. It's like, my mom's a doctor. I'm
Speaker 1: not you know what I mean, Like, you don't, you're
Speaker 1: not everything that your parents are anyway. But she's getting,
Speaker 1: you know, relentlessly tortured by this kid Stabler. But I
Speaker 1: love when Stabler is like, actually I know the Bible
Speaker 1: very well, and he's like I don't remember seeing that
Speaker 1: in the Bible, and he goes, Corinthian says gay people
Speaker 1: are going to hell, and Old Testament is worse. It
Speaker 1: says gay people should be put to death. And then
Speaker 1: Stabler goes, okay, so that makes it okay for you
Speaker 1: to cut off all Emma's hair, and he pulls out
Speaker 1: the ponytail and he starts like whining, it didn't hurt her,
Speaker 1: it was just a joke. And Stabler's like, you went
Speaker 1: after a little girl with a pair of scissors. And
Speaker 1: he's like, all I did was cut her hair. She
Speaker 1: stabbed me in the back, and now I can't walk.
Speaker 4: It's not fair.
Speaker 1: It's like, I guess if you had done nothing, you'd
Speaker 1: still be running around playing stickball, you little shit. But
Speaker 1: now Benson and Stabler go talk to Sean's parents outside
Speaker 1: and there.
Speaker 2: It does suck at such a permanent like punishment or
Speaker 2: like consequence more so, But that's the risk you take, bitch, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: if she had stabbed him somewhere else in the back,
Speaker 2: he might still be fine, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Like, right, I don't think she meant to paralyze him.
Speaker 2: She just went for the back, you know, Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I don't feel bad for this kid, and then we
Speaker 2: see the parents suck. It's not like this kid would
Speaker 2: have been like a great person walking like whatever.
Speaker 1: Well, he's probably gonna become a fucking left right wing podcaster.
Speaker 1: But Benson and Stabler go to talk to Shawn's parents
Speaker 1: outside the hospital room and they're like, did he remember anything?
Speaker 1: And Stabler's like, yeah, that he bullied a girl in school,
Speaker 1: and the moms goes, Emma should have never been accepted
Speaker 1: at Saint Victor's and the dad says, we pay a
Speaker 1: lot of money to give Sean a private education, we
Speaker 1: should have some say in what he's exposed to exposed to, Like, how.
Speaker 4: Is it exposing you to anything?
Speaker 1: To just be in a classroom which you're you shouldn't be,
Speaker 1: by the way, she's clearly in like second grade and
Speaker 1: you're in fifth. So for you to pass the daughter
Speaker 1: of two lesbians in the hallway, how is that affecting
Speaker 1: your life in any way? So Stabler goes, so you
Speaker 1: told your son it was cool to pick on an
Speaker 1: eight year old girl, And they're like, we told him he.
Speaker 4: Should feel sorry for Emma's moms and pray for them.
Speaker 1: Well, he didn't get that message, and the dad goes,
Speaker 1: so did Emma stab Sean and Stabler confirms, and then
Speaker 1: he goes, then I don't care if he called her
Speaker 1: an F word, slur, D word, slur, hoor, bitch from hell,
Speaker 1: arrest her. I didn't want to say those words, but
Speaker 1: you guys know what I'm saying. And it's wild that
Speaker 1: this is set on television, but it is two thousand
Speaker 1: and five. So these guys are like, get that eight
Speaker 1: year old girl behind fucking bars. They want nothing but
Speaker 1: revenge from this child of lesbians. So now Benson is
Speaker 1: at Emma's house talking to her, like, we know what happened.
Speaker 1: Sean told us. Zoe's still saying that Emma's innocent and
Speaker 1: that the reason Emma's hair was short was because of gum,
Speaker 1: and they're like, Emma, spillt And she admits that she's
Speaker 1: been lying to Mommy Zoe and she didn't mean to
Speaker 1: hurt Sean. And she says, Sean, she has like a
Speaker 1: really kind of cute, little New York accent. She really
Speaker 1: didn't mean to hurt Seuan. He just kept yelling slurs
Speaker 1: at her and calling her the D words slang for lesbians.
Speaker 1: Were like, I mean, lesbians use the word, but I
Speaker 1: don't think they want anyone else to call them that.
Speaker 1: And she says I told him I'm not a lesbian,
Speaker 1: but he said prove it, and he tried to kiss her,
Speaker 1: so she pushed him away. He grabbed her, cut her
Speaker 1: hair and said you're a D word slur and now
Speaker 1: you look like one, and she goes, I was so mad,
Speaker 1: I was so ugly, so I grabbed the scissors and
Speaker 1: I heard him in the back with them.
Speaker 4: He fell down and hit his head.
Speaker 1: Then she explains how Charlie brought Sean to the hospital
Speaker 1: and father Justin's car.
Speaker 4: She says, sorry, she.
Speaker 1: Didn't mean to tell all those lies, and Benson says,
Speaker 1: we still have to arrest her, and Zoe's like, it's late.
Speaker 1: Can this wait till she sees Kate in the hospital
Speaker 1: in the morning. So Benson, in a moment of compassion, says,
Speaker 1: get an attorney and bring her in by nine am.
Speaker 1: So now they're at the precinct that evening and they're like.
Speaker 1: Olivia's like, this kid must have really scared Emma. She's
Speaker 1: a good kid. She's never had a day of trouble
Speaker 1: up until now, and our girl, Casey Novac is there going.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The guy that's going to try her in family court
Speaker 1: is named Garrett Gillespie, and he is supposed to be
Speaker 1: a hard ass. So suddenly Zoe shows up with defense
Speaker 1: attorney Roger Kressler aka the late Great Ned Eisenberg, with
Speaker 1: a motion to suppress the confession, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: he's a shark, so he's the guy to get if
Speaker 1: you really need to get someone off. The confession they
Speaker 1: want suppressed on the grounds that they interrogated Emma without
Speaker 1: her parent present, because even though they've been together for
Speaker 1: ten years, the law does not recognize. Zoe asked Kate's
Speaker 1: wife or as Emma's mom, because she never adopted her again,
Speaker 1: much like in Chasing THEO why not you've been together
Speaker 1: for ten years? You had this girl together because she's
Speaker 1: eight or seven?
Speaker 4: So why have you not?
Speaker 1: Why were you not adopting her from the get I
Speaker 1: don't understand. She's still paperwork is hard. Paperwork is hard,
Speaker 1: but it just seems like yours, Aaron's.
Speaker 4: It's you know, appointments, it's tough, getting passports. I know,
Speaker 4: it's a lot.
Speaker 1: She's still her legal guardian though, while her mom's in
Speaker 1: the hoste, but old Sabler argues and Kressler's too good.
Speaker 1: He's like, she's a de facto guardian, but the state
Speaker 1: doesn't give her the right to make decisions for Emma.
Speaker 1: She's basically a babysitter. Benson looks like she got punched
Speaker 1: in the gut. She's like, bitch, you raise this child.
Speaker 1: You're gonna let them call you a babysitter. Zoe's like,
Speaker 1: I should have legal rights over Emma, but I don't,
Speaker 1: so why should I claim them now when it can
Speaker 1: only hurt her? So the confession is out. You want
Speaker 1: to talk to em again, you talk to me, says Kressler.
Speaker 1: So now top of AAC three, Novak meets Garrett Gillespie.
Speaker 1: He's kind of cute, and he says, Sean's parents called
Speaker 1: and want to know why this eight year old hasn't
Speaker 1: been locked up yet.
Speaker 4: And she tells him about how.
Speaker 1: Like these parents are just horny for a little girl
Speaker 1: behind bars in a wig, and she tells him about
Speaker 1: how Kresler got the confession tossed, and he goes, I
Speaker 1: don't need a confession to convict her, and Casey's like,
Speaker 1: you really want to send an eight year old to
Speaker 1: jail for ten years. And she He's like, she jammed
Speaker 1: the scissors so far into Sean's back, she severed his
Speaker 1: spinal cord. Sean tormented her and drove her to the edge.
Speaker 1: Casey argues, belungs in counseling, not Juvie.
Speaker 2: Gillespie goes back, it's not like the kid was like
Speaker 2: I'm gonna fucking paralyze.
Speaker 4: Him, you know, yeah, like fu me alone. You just
Speaker 4: cut my fucking hair off.
Speaker 2: Well, because Harriet the spy had a ponytail cutting moment
Speaker 2: and she got revenge in different ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And Gillespie's like, that's your opinion, but it's
Speaker 1: my case, tell Sbu to arrest Emma. So now Benson
Speaker 1: and Stablers show up at the hospital to get Emma.
Speaker 1: Her grandmother's there saying Emma's off getting juice in the
Speaker 1: hospital room. Zoe and Charlie are at Kate's bedside and
Speaker 1: she looks like she's at death store, Like this woman
Speaker 1: does not look good. They explain that they're there to
Speaker 1: arrest Emma. They all beg them not to. Stablers like
Speaker 1: we have to, Zoe, you promise to bring her in
Speaker 1: and then Kate's mother starts in on Zoe like what
Speaker 1: did you do?
Speaker 4: She's my granddaughter? What's happening? And Kate's like, can you
Speaker 4: back off? Mom? I'm like dying and you're being very
Speaker 4: shrill right now.
Speaker 1: Emma shows up and is like, Olivia says, I have
Speaker 1: to go with her, and Live goes, someone should go
Speaker 1: with us, So Grandma Dearest volunteers to go, and then
Speaker 1: Zoe's goes, no, I'll go, and Keith goes, both of.
Speaker 4: You should go?
Speaker 2: So Lan this actress that plays the grandma, she has
Speaker 2: a face for evil, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yes, she has wicked stepmother energy for sure, and the
Speaker 1: yeah she is type cast.
Speaker 4: Yes. So now later Casey approaches Live and is like,
Speaker 4: how did it go?
Speaker 2: Do you know her big her big thing where she
Speaker 2: had one hundred and twenty eight episodes on a show.
Speaker 4: This woman? Yeah, oh no, I didn't look her up.
Speaker 4: Tell me Dawson's Creek. Oh who did she play?
Speaker 2: Says Graham's Evelyn Graham's Ryan. So someone's grandma probably.
Speaker 1: Isn't that Michelle Williams grandmother Graham's. It's interesting because somebody
Speaker 1: when rams like grandma, Yeah, yeah, I thought I didn't
Speaker 1: watch the show, but I always remember Michelle Williams having
Speaker 1: like a Graham's, you know, like she didn't have parents.
Speaker 4: I don't think, Yeah, John.
Speaker 2: Lindley is Michelle Williams Jen Lynley and Dawson's.
Speaker 4: I think she is Jen.
Speaker 1: I think all the people that listen to Dawson's Creek
Speaker 1: are probably right now screaming at.
Speaker 4: Their I used to watch it.
Speaker 2: This was so long ago, Like I haven't because I
Speaker 2: had a bucket hat, a Dawson's Creek bucket hat, I
Speaker 2: had a Dawson's Creek calendar. Wow, I was into it.
Speaker 2: I watched it, probably only for a few seasons. I mean,
Speaker 2: I was in sixth grade. It's hard to make a
Speaker 2: full on commitment for six seasons. I'm like a you know,
Speaker 2: a Jeh hide to high school. Things change. But I
Speaker 2: was very into Dawson's Creek when it came out. But
Speaker 2: I haven't done a rewatch.
Speaker 1: Well, this woman's name is Marybeth Peel, and she's an
Speaker 1: American actress and an opera singer. She started as an
Speaker 1: opera singer, a soprano, and you know, she's got a
Speaker 1: fuck ton of opera stuff in here.
Speaker 4: But then yeah, Dawson's Creek. But I was striking the
Speaker 4: other day. She's in Jersey Girl too. Oh but nineteen
Speaker 4: ninety two, jetting the Girl that would be Wild.
Speaker 1: I was striking and Michael McKean was at my stanking thing.
Speaker 1: He's from Better Call Saul and his wife is a
Speaker 1: net O'Toole, and everybody was saying that she also was
Speaker 1: on that show as a grandma. So I wonder if
Speaker 1: that's real. Anyway back to reality? Oop, there goes gravity.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: So later Casey approaches Olivia in the Precincton's like, how'd
Speaker 1: it go? And she goes, great, I love putting eight
Speaker 1: year olds in lock up overnight. So Casey goes she
Speaker 1: can stay home till the trial. After the family court
Speaker 1: judge lets her out, and we hear home with her grandparents,
Speaker 1: I hope, And we hear some man who looks like
Speaker 1: a full men's rights activist say from behind them, and
Speaker 1: he is James Decker, and he's a lawyer who represents
Speaker 1: the grandparents, and the grandma wants to see Emma, but
Speaker 1: that's not possible.
Speaker 4: She's detained until tomorrow, and she.
Speaker 1: Goes, you're putting my granddaughter in jail and Casey's like, ma'am,
Speaker 1: she did stab a child and paralyze him. And then
Speaker 1: the lawyer pipes in that none of this would have
Speaker 1: happened if Zoe hadn't forced her lifestyle on Emma and
Speaker 1: Kate Kate the mom lifestyle. Benson gets worked up. Your
Speaker 1: daughter didn't choose her sexual orientation. She was like, my
Speaker 1: daughter was happy being a wife and a mother until
Speaker 1: Zoe came along. It's like, okay, lady, did you ever
Speaker 1: talk to her about her marriage because sounds like she
Speaker 1: went running. So it's Zoe's fault that your daughter is gay.
Speaker 1: And the lawyer says, well, it's not Emma's and someone
Speaker 1: has to look out for her. And Casey says, the
Speaker 1: court has appointed Emma a lawyer, and he goes, well,
Speaker 1: we'll see about that. So now we're in family court
Speaker 1: where this Gillespie dude is asking Emma be remanded to
Speaker 1: a juvenile facility because she's a violent child. She truly
Speaker 1: has no background of violence, and Crestler is like, your honor,
Speaker 1: this child has zero history of violence and she poses
Speaker 1: no danger to anyone.
Speaker 4: She should be released to her parents.
Speaker 1: The judge agrees, but says she has to wear an
Speaker 1: ankle monitor and stay at her mother's house, and Gillespie says, well,
Speaker 1: that's a problem because her mother's in the hospital. She
Speaker 1: has no father or legal guardian. Zoe stands up and
Speaker 1: addresses the judge, explaining that she has as much her
Speaker 1: parent as her mother is, and the judge goes, why
Speaker 1: haven't you adopted her? And she goes, I don't need
Speaker 1: a piece of paper to define my relationship with my daughter,
Speaker 1: and he goes, well, in this court, you do so,
Speaker 1: burn so then James Decker pipes up with a solution.
Speaker 1: The grandparents are happy to take Emma until this matter
Speaker 1: is resolved. Zoe argues that Emma belongs at home, and
Speaker 1: Kresler argues that there is precedence for a non family
Speaker 1: member to take the child, but Decker's like, only in California,
Speaker 1: and not when blood family members are willing and able,
Speaker 1: And Emma's like, I want to go home with mommy Zoe,
Speaker 1: and the judge says, sorry, Emma can't do it, and
Speaker 1: he scold Zoe for first saying that she had no
Speaker 1: parental rights and then asking for them. You can't have
Speaker 1: it both ways, so he releases Emma to her grandparents.
Speaker 1: She is so sad, but Zoe tells her it's just
Speaker 1: for a couple of days.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Father Justin shows up to court to talk to Benson
Speaker 1: and ask about Emma's trial, and Benson's like, it is
Speaker 1: not going great, Father Jay, And worst case is if
Speaker 1: the judge thinks she's a danger, she'll go to Juvie
Speaker 1: till she's eighteen. And he's like, I got to help,
Speaker 1: like you, I'll testify that Sean tormented her. But Live
Speaker 1: is like, that's hearsay. You weren't you only heard her
Speaker 1: say that he tormented her. We need proof, and like,
Speaker 1: what about the damn ponytail? Is that not enough proof
Speaker 1: about torment? But I guess they need, you know, notes
Speaker 1: emails like whatever witnesses to the torment. He asked, have
Speaker 1: you checked the im logs at the school, and Benson goes,
Speaker 1: computers don't save those, which is not true. I've looked
Speaker 1: at many of my old im conversations in retrospect, but
Speaker 1: he says the ones that Saint Victor's do.
Speaker 4: The principal installed software to monitor kids combos.
Speaker 1: Maybe my mom did too, But I remember reading my
Speaker 1: backlogs back in family Court and Sean is up on
Speaker 1: the stand recalling something your mom would do. No, my
Speaker 1: mom's and moron with technology. No, and she's too busy
Speaker 1: to spy. She could never spy.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 4: I could see my dad getting a little bit into that,
Speaker 4: but not my mom. Nope. And your parent's probably not right.
Speaker 4: Are they spies?
Speaker 2: I don't think there are spies, but they definitely found
Speaker 2: my pipe immediately the first day I smoked.
Speaker 4: Weed cleaning probably right, yeah.
Speaker 2: And then I so then they're like and but I
Speaker 2: didn't want them to get the satisfaction of knowing they
Speaker 2: caught me on the first time. So I was like,
Speaker 2: I've been smoking for months, Jesse, you know I'm good
Speaker 2: at this. Yeah, that's so cute.
Speaker 4: How old were you? High school? High school? They like
Speaker 4: caught me.
Speaker 2: There was just like a big day where because then
Speaker 2: my dad showed up to play practice to make sure
Speaker 2: I was there, and I was like what And he
Speaker 2: was shocked that I was there.
Speaker 1: But I was, You're like, I'm not a commercial for
Speaker 1: weed smoking. I actually go to the thing. I go
Speaker 1: to swim, I go to a theater. So back in
Speaker 1: Family Court, Shawn's up on the stand recalling the moment
Speaker 1: he found out he was paralyzed. And then Benson shows
Speaker 1: up to court and hands Gillespie a bunch of print
Speaker 1: doubts of how horrible I ams that Sean has sent
Speaker 1: to Emma, basically rape threats like and she goes, that's
Speaker 1: not the worst of them, and he's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I got to share these with the defense, And the
Speaker 1: moment I do, Shawn's cred goes out the window and
Speaker 1: so does yours, and he looks busted and he's like, uh,
Speaker 1: you're on her. I need a thirty minute recess. So
Speaker 1: back at the sixteenth Precinct, Benson's telling us how it
Speaker 1: all got wrapped up, telling Craigan that it took g
Speaker 1: Leslie about ten minutes to agree on a deal, counseling,
Speaker 1: anger management, monthly court evaluations, and Emma is back home
Speaker 1: with Zoe. So horay, Emma does not have to have
Speaker 1: her life ruined over paralyzing this child. In walks Blake,
Speaker 1: the lawyer, telling them they need to remove Emma from
Speaker 1: Zoe's custody immediately, and Craigan's like, we can't help you,
Speaker 1: pal unless there's been a crime. Then he drops a
Speaker 1: bomb that Zoe has been sexually abusing Emma ever since
Speaker 1: Kate got sick.
Speaker 4: And they're like, we need to hear this from Emma.
Speaker 4: We haven't heard any of these allegations before.
Speaker 1: We've been spending a lot of time with this child,
Speaker 1: and that's a pretty big coincidence that this is all
Speaker 1: coming out right after Zoe gets custody. So then he
Speaker 1: whips out a photo and says, Emma showed them to
Speaker 1: her grandparents, these photos, and why does a grown woman
Speaker 1: have pictures of herself in bed with a naked eight
Speaker 1: year old? And he says, search the apartment and you'll
Speaker 1: find dozens more like this. So now they're at the apartment.
Speaker 1: Millie Viskroondo is there too. She's just coming down from
Speaker 1: her pixie stick high and she's not finding anything unusual
Speaker 1: on the computer.
Speaker 4: She's like, this is just email and shit.
Speaker 1: The detectives are finding tuition bills, hospital bills, but also
Speaker 1: like pictures of them having family fun, Coney Island Statue
Speaker 1: of Liberty, the met And then Benson finds pictures of
Speaker 1: nude sunbathing and another one of Emma in the tub
Speaker 1: with Zoe, which I don't find weird.
Speaker 4: A lot of people take baths with their kids.
Speaker 1: But then Zoe and Emma come home and Zoe asks
Speaker 1: what's going on, and Emma runs right to the couch,
Speaker 1: ball and crying, and they tell Zoe that they need
Speaker 1: to ask her some questions about a complaint, but she says,
Speaker 1: this is a really bad time, and then Benson goes
Speaker 1: to talk to Emma and we find out that sadly
Speaker 1: Kate has died.
Speaker 4: Fuck.
Speaker 1: Very bad timing on the cops part. So top of
Speaker 1: back four at the precinct, Stabler has Zoe in interrogation.
Speaker 1: Emma's gone home with the grandparents and he shows for
Speaker 1: these pictures and she goes, what do you think these.
Speaker 4: Are like porn?
Speaker 1: And he go you got an eight year old lying
Speaker 1: naked in a bed, And Zoe goes, Emma has always
Speaker 1: been shy, so Kate and I wanted her to have
Speaker 1: a positive body image, so we took some pictures of
Speaker 1: her to show her how beautiful she is. Stabler's like,
Speaker 1: self esteem is one thing, but you got her vamping
Speaker 1: for the camera like a playboy model. And it's like,
Speaker 1: what did these picture? What are these pictures? If you
Speaker 1: think they're sexy, you're the one with the problem, is
Speaker 1: what Zoe says. She looks like an angel, and she's like,
Speaker 1: what about you and Emma lying naked in bed, and
Speaker 1: Zoe's like, Emma's therapist recommended massage to relieve her stress.
Speaker 1: Kate took these photos on the last day of my
Speaker 1: massage classes. You think I'm because I'm gay, I'm molesting
Speaker 1: my daughter. And Stabler's like, this is not about who
Speaker 1: you are. This is about what Emma said you did
Speaker 1: to her. And she's like, Emma would never say that,
Speaker 1: and Sabler makes a face like hmm, she did though,
Speaker 1: and Zoe looks stunned. So now we're talking to Emma
Speaker 1: about how mommy Zoe made her take her clothes off
Speaker 1: and get in bed and then she touched me. Where
Speaker 1: did she touch you? Emma looks to her grandmother, who's like,
Speaker 1: go ahead tell them. She hesitates. Hwang is there too.
Speaker 1: He and Benson share a look. Olivia's asks the grandmother
Speaker 1: to step out, like so that there can't be any
Speaker 1: coaching or anything. Benson asks again, where did she touch you?
Speaker 1: And she goes everywhere down there. She says she didn't
Speaker 1: want it, but Zoe said it would make her feel good.
Speaker 1: How did it make you feel? And she said it
Speaker 1: made me feel bad, like when you tell a lie
Speaker 1: or you eat a burger on Good Friday. And Huang
Speaker 1: jumps in like, oh, you felt guilty, like you were
Speaker 1: doing something you shouldn't be doing. And she goes, I
Speaker 1: knew it was a sin. And he goes, why and
Speaker 1: she goes, because girls aren't supposed to naked touch other girls.
Speaker 1: And he said, do you think it's wrong? Your mommy
Speaker 1: sleep in the same bed, And she says, God says
Speaker 1: it's against nature. Women are supposed to be with men
Speaker 1: or they go to hell, and then they go is
Speaker 1: that what you learned in school? She goes, my grandmom
Speaker 1: told me. She said, mommy, Zoe is going to go
Speaker 1: to hell for what she did. So this is all
Speaker 1: kinds of fday. I mean, we're not supposed to blame
Speaker 1: the victim, but I blame the parents. You sent her
Speaker 1: to get a Catholic education. What did you think that entailed? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't joy happiness. What are you talking about?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 4: And Catholicism is your a sin?
Speaker 2: Everyone's a sin, The baby's a sin, everyone's a sin.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But also I think that the grandparents are exacerbating what
Speaker 1: she's like hearing and learning at school Foreshore. So yes,
Speaker 1: the parents are a bit to blame here, but we
Speaker 1: can't speak ill of the dead. Kate is dead, but
Speaker 1: Zoe is still alive. So cut to the debrief, Huang
Speaker 1: says he doubts Zoe molested Emma. Stabler's like, but she
Speaker 1: just said that she did. And He's like, Emma's description
Speaker 1: of the abuse is intellectual, not emotional. Kids say abuse hurts.
Speaker 1: Emma called it a sin, and they're like, what about
Speaker 1: the picks? Stabler wants to know, and Howang's like, I
Speaker 1: would have also prescribed massage for Emma if she were
Speaker 1: my patient. So like he's like, the picks seem fine,
Speaker 1: and then he goes, well, how do you explain these
Speaker 1: allegations that she's making? And Huang says, parental alienation syndrome,
Speaker 1: and that is partially the title, So do take a
Speaker 1: drink or eat a jellybean. According to Social Work Today,
Speaker 1: which is something I looked up, parental alienation is a
Speaker 1: set of strategies a set of strategies that a parent
Speaker 1: uses to foster a child's rejection of the other parent.
Speaker 1: Parental alienation syndrome develops in children who come to hate, fear,
Speaker 1: and reject the targeted parent as someone unworthy of having
Speaker 1: a relationship with them. And I feel like we hear
Speaker 1: about this all the time, we see this on like
Speaker 1: in real life. But Stabler's like, I thought that was
Speaker 1: just when couples split up and the mom brainwashes the
Speaker 1: kids into thinking the dad's a bastard. And it's like, okay, Stabler,
Speaker 1: like a man's never done this Parendal alienation, Give me
Speaker 1: a break. You've been working in SVU at this point
Speaker 1: for at least seven or eight years. Huang says, the
Speaker 1: same thing is happening here, only the grandmother is turning
Speaker 1: the child against Zoe. It's like, just doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be between a heterosexual couple. Why would Emma go along
Speaker 1: with it? And Huang says her grandmother is manipulating her
Speaker 1: into believing it. Benson is talking to Casey, who says,
Speaker 1: at the very least, it's custodial interference. At the most,
Speaker 1: it's reckless endangerment. But Benson says, they'll only get a
Speaker 1: slap on the wrist. Casey goes, unless we can prove
Speaker 1: unlawful imprisonment. They kept a little all away from her
Speaker 1: lawful home by making her lie about abuse, which they
Speaker 1: only did because Zoe is gay, which makes it a
Speaker 1: hate crime, a de felony. They could get seven years boom.
Speaker 1: I love when Novak works for a little law magic
Speaker 1: like that. So Novak goes arrest them, Benson is Stabler
Speaker 1: go arrest the oldies for unlawful imprisonment. They're like, you
Speaker 1: filled the Emma's head with lies to keep her away
Speaker 1: from her mother, and Grandma's.
Speaker 4: Like Zoe's ruining her life. It's our moral duty to
Speaker 4: protect Emma.
Speaker 1: And then Stabler goes, how about thou shalt not bear
Speaker 1: false witness my guys, and I love it when he
Speaker 1: has Catholic comebacks. It really helps me because I feel
Speaker 1: like he understands the nuances of Catholicism where there are
Speaker 1: some In court, the parents are on trial and Zoe
Speaker 1: is on the stand. Zoe is testifying that Emma's grandparents
Speaker 1: tricked Emma into saying she'd been molested, but Zoe knows
Speaker 1: it's not Emma's fault. She Emma now understands that Zoe
Speaker 1: did not hurt her in any way.
Speaker 4: She goes, she's just sad all the time. Now, it's
Speaker 4: really sad when she says that, yeah, because it's also
Speaker 4: like her mom just died. Her mom just died.
Speaker 1: She just had this traumatic thing happened where she hurt
Speaker 1: this kid, She had her fucking ponytail cut off and
Speaker 1: was tormented for months. It's like this is all like
Speaker 1: probably the worst period of her little life. And so
Speaker 1: she says it's not just because her biological mother just died.
Speaker 1: She woke up the other day crying and that she
Speaker 1: dreamed that her mom died and the police took Zoe
Speaker 1: to jail and that she cried out and no one
Speaker 1: could hear her.
Speaker 4: So that sort of like is what's happening.
Speaker 1: So here come the grandparents lawyer and his punchable face
Speaker 1: going how long has Emma been in therapy to Zoe,
Speaker 1: and Zoe goes, six months since this kid's at school
Speaker 1: started teasing her for having two moms, And I was like, also,
Speaker 1: her mom dying is a great reason for her to
Speaker 1: be in therapy, Like her mom being sick is a
Speaker 1: great reason for her to be in therapy. So in
Speaker 1: three years at Saint Victor's, the teasing only started recently
Speaker 1: because you insisted on making your presence known at school.
Speaker 1: This little asshole says, Zoe goes, Emma needed a parent
Speaker 1: for school functions, and he goes, and you needed to
Speaker 1: make a point that you were gay, and the school
Speaker 1: better not discriminate against you. When they got angry at
Speaker 1: your lie, you took them to court. She goes, it
Speaker 1: was important to take a stand, and he goes, more
Speaker 1: important than Emma's happiness. Why not enroll her in another school?
Speaker 1: She says, I didn't want her to be ashamed that
Speaker 1: her moms are lesbians. So you had an eight year
Speaker 1: old fight your battles. She said, no, never. If you
Speaker 1: love her so much, why did you make her stay
Speaker 1: at Saint Victor's even though she hated it? So Zoe
Speaker 1: like kind of breaks down and goes, if I had
Speaker 1: to do it all over again, I would do it differently.
Speaker 1: And the lawyer says, but you didn't know, and now
Speaker 1: Sean hammil will never walk again, and Casey objects because
Speaker 1: I don't think that's relevant in this case. And the
Speaker 1: judge is Georgie from Sisters Patricia Callimber. She doesn't even
Speaker 1: get to rule because Zoe immediately interrupts and says, if
Speaker 1: I could change it, I would. I made a mistake
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, She's like kind of falling on her
Speaker 1: sword immediately about this. And now the grandma is on
Speaker 1: the stand saying how Emma was happy until eight months ago.
Speaker 1: When she was she became scared and lonely, and Zoe
Speaker 1: was either at work or at the hospital all the time.
Speaker 1: They asked if Emma could stay with them after school,
Speaker 1: but Zoe didn't like that.
Speaker 4: I wonder why.
Speaker 1: And that's when she made Kate write her will. Kate
Speaker 1: was getting sicker and sicker and barely recognized her own parents,
Speaker 1: but Zoe wanted full custody. So the Grandma's trying to
Speaker 1: make it seem like Zoe wit, like, played a long game,
Speaker 1: dated a woman for ten fucking years, had a kid
Speaker 1: with her, and then waited until she got six so
Speaker 1: she could have her write her into the will and
Speaker 1: get the kid, Like, what are you even talking about?
Speaker 1: The grandmother denies asking Emma to make false allegations against Zoe.
Speaker 1: She says she simply asked an unhappy girl why she
Speaker 1: was unhappy. Now, Casey gets her turn in the ring
Speaker 1: and she shows Grandma the will and goes, look, it's
Speaker 1: been co signed by her ex, Ray Monahan, Charlie's dad,
Speaker 1: he thought she was loocid enough to sign the will,
Speaker 1: And the grandmother is like, Kate wasn't thinking clearly, She
Speaker 1: just didn't want to hurt Zoe. She wasn't thinking about
Speaker 1: the best home for Zoe, and like, wouldn't you be
Speaker 1: thinking of nothing else on your deathbed? Like if you
Speaker 1: were dying, You're like, what's going to happen to my kids?
Speaker 1: You'd be obviously thinking of what's the best home for
Speaker 1: my child? And Casey's like, oh, the best home, so
Speaker 1: like the best heterosexual home. And then she goes, do
Speaker 1: you think gay people should be allowed to raise children?
Speaker 1: And the grandma says, ideally, know, I think children should
Speaker 1: be raised by their father and their mother. So Casey goes,
Speaker 1: you made these allegations up against Zoe because your faith
Speaker 1: rejects the idea of a gay woman raising your granddaughter.
Speaker 1: And the grandmother goes, it's not just faith. I've read
Speaker 1: about what happens. What will happen to Emma if Zoe
Speaker 1: raises her, she'll grow up sexually confused, promiscuous, and experimenting
Speaker 1: with homosexual relationships. And Novak's like, where are you getting
Speaker 1: all of this? And the Grandma's like, studies, and she
Speaker 1: goes like, there's a study I read that said kids
Speaker 1: raised by gay couples are forty eight times more likely
Speaker 1: to be molested by their parents, which is such an
Speaker 1: insanely fake statistic, Like forty eight times is so over
Speaker 1: the top crazy, and she goes, where did you get
Speaker 1: these studies? I love Casey when she's like, tell me more,
Speaker 1: where did these fucking studies come from? And the grandma goes,
Speaker 1: my attorney showed them to me, And then the camera
Speaker 1: cuts right to the lawyer's face, Decker, and he looks busted,
Speaker 1: like he looks a little sick, and then they go
Speaker 1: She goes, when did he show them to you? And
Speaker 1: he objects, but Judge Georgie overrules and she says, during
Speaker 1: Emma's trial and family court, oh, so just before you
Speaker 1: accused Zoe of abuse. Yes, what I read made me
Speaker 1: start looking for clues, and when we found the photos,
Speaker 1: we knew we had to ask Emma what was going on.
Speaker 1: And Casey goes, oh, and did your lawyer tell you
Speaker 1: what to ask? And he objects that this is a
Speaker 1: violation of attorney client privilege and Casey goes up, privilege
Speaker 1: protects the client, not the attorney, your honor, Judge Georgie
Speaker 1: allows it. Decker said, to be forceful. Sometimes molested children
Speaker 1: need to be led to the truth. The grandma says so.
Speaker 1: Then Casey says, your honor, Decker coached his clients into
Speaker 1: manipulating an abuse allegation out of a child. And he goes,
Speaker 1: I only offer advice, and Casey goes, they never would
Speaker 1: have accused Zoe of molestation had it not been for
Speaker 1: mister Decker. The judges like approach the bench. Decker goes,
Speaker 1: she has no basis, and Casey goes, watch this, bitch.
Speaker 1: You have a history of representing straight clients fighting custody
Speaker 1: battles with their gay exes. You fed your clients anti
Speaker 1: gay material before custody was even an issue, because you
Speaker 1: were gearing up for a fight. You conspired to keep
Speaker 1: Zoe from Emma, which means you have committed a hate crime.
Speaker 1: He says, that's ridiculous and you can't prove any of it.
Speaker 1: Judge Georgie goes, well, at the very least, this is
Speaker 1: a serious breach of ethical conduct. I have to remove
Speaker 1: you as counsel and declare a mistrial. Now we cut
Speaker 1: to Novak offering the grandparents a plea arrangement in exchange
Speaker 1: for their testimony against Decker, And they're like, why would
Speaker 1: we testify against him? And she goes, he manipulated you,
Speaker 1: guys with faulty research. Gay parents are not forty eight
Speaker 1: times more likely to molest to molest their children. The
Speaker 1: article I read says differently, which is literally the problem
Speaker 1: with America. Like the article I read says differently is
Speaker 1: the problem with the United States of America right now,
Speaker 1: because you can find any crazy shit anywhere that supports
Speaker 1: what you believe. The article you read has been debunked, honey.
Speaker 1: The guy who wrote it has been expelled from the
Speaker 1: entire profession for misrepresenting stats. The American Academy of Pediatrics,
Speaker 1: the National Associates of Social Workers always all say that
Speaker 1: kids raised in gay homes are just as happy as
Speaker 1: kids raising straight homes. He lied to you to further
Speaker 1: his agenda and you and to make an example of
Speaker 1: the damage homosexual is doing to society. And they're like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: we just wanted to protect Emma enters Zoe, who wants
Speaker 1: to come in and speak to the grandparents. They start
Speaker 1: apologizing profusely. They're like, we just want we're trying to
Speaker 1: do what was best for Emma. Casey stands up for
Speaker 1: them a little bit and is like, listen, James Decker
Speaker 1: was taking advantage of them, and I know it could
Speaker 1: be hard to forgive them. And Zoe's like, it's not
Speaker 1: going to happen. And the grandmother's like, please Zoe, and
Speaker 1: she goes, you turn my baby against me. You convinced
Speaker 1: her I'm a child molester. How could I ever trust
Speaker 1: you again? Zoe walks out, grabs Emma, and they leave,
Speaker 1: and then as they're walking out, Emma briefly looks back
Speaker 1: and shares a look.
Speaker 4: With Olivia and that baby is dick Wolf.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I kind of forgot this episode until we rewatched it.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: I also thought that being a parent makes you less selfish,
Speaker 2: and it seems like everyone's very selfish in this episode.
Speaker 2: No one is thinking of baby Emma. Nobody, oh yes,
Speaker 2: except wildly the priest. This is the one episode where
Speaker 2: a priest is a good past He was doing good.
Speaker 2: We stand Father Justin.
Speaker 4: We love Father Justin. He's checking im.
Speaker 1: Logs, he's counseling children, he lets you use his car
Speaker 1: whenever you fucking want.
Speaker 4: I love Father Justin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a nice twist of an episode. Father Justin
Speaker 2: is correct. It's almost kind one of all. Well, good
Speaker 2: luck to Emma and listen to these ads. Yeah she
Speaker 2: you know, she turned gothic in high school though totally.
Speaker 4: She had a lot going on. And she's wearing blacklist
Speaker 4: stick and.
Speaker 1: A dog collar, probably borrowing one of mommy Zoe's like
Speaker 1: cool belts, like studded belts, like she had kind of
Speaker 1: rock star wardrobe going on.
Speaker 4: All right, I can't wait for.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: Also thinking of poor Charlie. He's just crying at home alone.
Speaker 2: No one's paying attention. His mom's dead, everyone's in court.
Speaker 2: He's got the body like his dad's like you okay, kid,
Speaker 2: I gotta go to work, all right, all.
Speaker 4: Right, well i'll be back. We'll be back, Okay.
Speaker 2: So this I'm gonna go over a case and then
Speaker 2: a concept. So we have a couple things going on
Speaker 2: with this episode.
Speaker 4: Alien.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize it was for Alienation, and the whole
Speaker 2: time I was like, why is it called alien?
Speaker 4: But now I get it.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: At first when I heard of this, when we were
Speaker 1: gonna do this episode, I was like, oh, is this
Speaker 1: one of the ones where like people are like immigrants
Speaker 1: or something, and because you know, like illegal aliens or whatever,
Speaker 1: is like I feel like what they used to call people.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, I bet this is like
Speaker 1: an old immigration one. My old green card says alien
Speaker 1: on time. Yeah, yeah, it was an official term. I
Speaker 1: thought it was an immigration one, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I don't think they say it anymore, though, do they,
Speaker 1: because it just sounds so like rude.
Speaker 4: Well I was three, So mine's alien. Let's see what
Speaker 4: the green card says.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just wondering if they got rid of that, Like,
Speaker 4: I don't think there is. I don't think they did. Oh,
Speaker 4: you're right.
Speaker 2: It says the United States of America Permanent resident. Okay, okay,
Speaker 2: so yeah, no green cards. I think that term has
Speaker 2: been phased out, is all I'm saying. So I have
Speaker 2: a vintage green card. Yes, baby, cool, let's frame it.
Speaker 2: I do look so sad and cute. Okay, I'm glad
Speaker 2: they're not calling alien like you come here and then
Speaker 2: it says alien.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're back to reality. This is the case of.
Speaker 2: Sharon Bottom's matts, and so Sharon was a central figure
Speaker 2: in a super long court battle in the nineties, and
Speaker 2: she ended up losing custody of her son to her
Speaker 2: mother after Virginia courts ruled that she was an unfit
Speaker 2: parent because she was in a same sex relationship.
Speaker 4: So fucked up.
Speaker 2: This whole case is really fucked up, and it did
Speaker 2: change a lot of legislation. I think post this case
Speaker 2: there were a lot of protections made and then like
Speaker 2: obviously gay marriage became legal. But this was a big
Speaker 2: Bottoms versus Bottoms.
Speaker 4: Wow. So this did influence a lot of things and
Speaker 4: was a big case.
Speaker 2: So in nineteen ninety one, Sharon Bottoms gave birth to
Speaker 2: her son, Tyler Destau. I don't know how to say
Speaker 2: his last name, but his name is Tyler. And she
Speaker 2: was already divorced from the boy's father and he was
Speaker 2: not involved in raising the.
Speaker 4: Child at all.
Speaker 2: About a year later, Sharon formed a household with April
Speaker 2: Wade and Tyler, and this was right outside Richmond, Virginia.
Speaker 4: So she met April, they fell in love, they're together and.
Speaker 2: They're raising Tyler, and her mom, Kay Bottoms, was like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you fucking lesbians, I'm gaining custody of Tyler.
Speaker 4: She's a homophobic bitch. There's no real way around it.
Speaker 2: In quotes, the boy is a bundle of joy and
Speaker 2: shouldn't be raised by lesbians and calling another woman dada.
Speaker 2: I don't care how my daughter lives her life, but
Speaker 2: Tyler isn't going to be mentally and physically harmed because
Speaker 2: of their relationship. It's unfit. So that's a quote from
Speaker 2: Grandma Bottoms. The court case lasted for three years and
Speaker 2: the Virginia branch of the American Civil Liberties Union handled
Speaker 2: most of Sharon's legal defense. Like I said, it became
Speaker 2: like a big star and a lot of stuff, and
Speaker 2: it scared the shit out of gay people all across
Speaker 2: the nation.
Speaker 4: So her lawyer was Donald K.
Speaker 2: Butler, and he said the intense news media interests took
Speaker 2: everyone by surprise, and that like he was just being
Speaker 2: reached out to for so many interviews about the case,
Speaker 2: and like you know, there was a frenzy. Her former husband, Dennis,
Speaker 2: testified in support of Sharon and believed that she should
Speaker 2: have custody. So the dad was like, let Sharon raise
Speaker 2: our childs And it was just like a fucked up case,
Speaker 2: like in the courtroom, because a lot of intimate and
Speaker 2: personal details had to come out. So Sharon had to admit, like, yes,
Speaker 2: I've kissed Wade in front of Tyler again, who cares?
Speaker 2: They so forced her to admit that in private she
Speaker 2: engaged in oral sex, which in Virginia counted as sodomy
Speaker 2: and was considered a felony and not decriminalized until twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, So that's what they used to like
Speaker 2: take her son away?
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The judge Boufford and Parsons found that bottom mats and
Speaker 2: quotes conduct if illegal and immoral and renders her an
Speaker 2: unfit parent. So because she had oral sex with her
Speaker 2: partner in private, they said she's immoral and an unfit parent.
Speaker 1: But our heterosexual couples allowed to be going down on
Speaker 1: each other in the great state of Virginia at this time.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you wanted to take someone to courtny thing,
Speaker 2: you could, but I don't. I don't know how I
Speaker 2: didn't look for like other examples. Wow, well, of course,
Speaker 2: because it probably would never happen.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, And so because of that, Sharon was only allowed
Speaker 2: to see her two year old son from Monday morning
Speaker 2: to Tuesday night, but she couldn't take him to the
Speaker 2: home she shared with Wade because Wade had no visitation
Speaker 2: rights and in the deal or whatever in the sentence,
Speaker 2: Wade was not allowed to see this child at all.
Speaker 2: And it sucked because she had a bond with the kid,
Speaker 2: and she has to meet her son because of all this,
Speaker 2: and like she couldn't bring her home and she couldn't
Speaker 2: really afford hotel rooms all the time, so she had
Speaker 2: to meet her son at friend's houses or parks. And
Speaker 2: I love that the court and her mother thought a
Speaker 2: two year old was better without a loving parent, for
Speaker 2: you know, than a kid, Like a two year old
Speaker 2: doesn't understand, Like a two year old's not like why
Speaker 2: are they gay?
Speaker 4: Like they don't know what gay is.
Speaker 2: Like two year olds would rather be with their mother,
Speaker 2: Like yes, you're not thinking about the like about the
Speaker 2: child at fucking all this it's always about reunification. It's
Speaker 2: always about being with like your parent if there's no
Speaker 2: a happening. So it's like so fucked up that Virginia,
Speaker 2: the courts, this grandmother all thought a two year old
Speaker 2: would be in more danger with two just women. Like
Speaker 2: it really is so fucked up. I didn't know about
Speaker 2: this case.
Speaker 4: It was like so fucked up.
Speaker 2: So both Sharon and her mom did interviews with magazines
Speaker 2: and TV shows, but her so her mom lived in
Speaker 2: a mobile home in Spotsylvania County.
Speaker 4: I just Spotsylvania. What do Dalmatians come from?
Speaker 5: There?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 4: I just I wrote that in all caps. I was
Speaker 4: just really taken by the county's name. So the mom.
Speaker 2: One of the press things she did, she went on
Speaker 2: Sally Jesse Rafael's show and said her daughter was in quotes,
Speaker 2: doing drugs, She partied, she wanted to have a good time.
Speaker 4: I've threatened her many times. I was going to take him.
Speaker 2: But in my head, I'm like, well, if she was straight,
Speaker 2: would that have been an issue her partying? Like you
Speaker 2: didn't go to court and say my daughter is partying
Speaker 2: too much? You said she's a lesbian. Yeah, so like,
Speaker 2: stop pretending that these are the things that made you
Speaker 2: upset when you went to court for something different. And
Speaker 2: I know for a fact if this woman was straight,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have cared. If she was still a dentist partying,
Speaker 2: they would not have gone to court. Right right, fuck you, Sharon,
Speaker 2: She's still alive. We should go find her. So then
Speaker 2: Sharon was like my mom's living boyfriend repeatedly sexually assaulted me.
Speaker 4: And the mom was like, that's a lie.
Speaker 2: But Sharon said that she had been bolested by her
Speaker 2: mother's boyfriend since she was twelve years old.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, and no one cared.
Speaker 2: They would rather send her to a grandmother with a
Speaker 2: man who could have been sexually abusing Sharon for decades
Speaker 2: over a loving home.
Speaker 4: And could sexually abuse Tyler. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Then, in nineteen ninety four, a Virginia Court of Appeals
Speaker 2: panel ruled unanimously that Miss Matt's aka Sharon, should have
Speaker 2: primary cust of her son. The state Supreme Court said
Speaker 2: that homosexuality alone could not be grounds for denying custody. Duh,
Speaker 2: but you know, no excitement here. Her legal victory was
Speaker 2: very short lived. The lawyer for the mother filed an
Speaker 2: appeal immediately, and also during this time, the custody arrangement
Speaker 2: never changed, so she still was only able to see
Speaker 2: her like sn Mondays and Tuesdays. So the later court hearing,
Speaker 2: they like kept going to court, Like I said, this
Speaker 2: lasted forever, so ohed the whatever this.
Speaker 4: Judge William G.
Speaker 2: Boyce was not happy that Sharon and Wade cooperated with
Speaker 2: producers of a TV movie. There was a TV movie
Speaker 2: made about two mother It was called Two Mothers for Zachary.
Speaker 2: It aired in nineteen ninety six, but Sharon was not
Speaker 2: paid for the film, so who cares. But also the
Speaker 2: grandmother was on Sally's Just Raphael, So right, how are
Speaker 2: you punishing one person for doing Hollywood stuff and not another.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's all homophobia, Like that's what's all of
Speaker 2: these semantic games. Whatever they're trying to convince themselves of,
Speaker 2: is like such all bullshit. But this movie starred Valerie
Speaker 2: Burtnelli and Vanessa Redgrave in September nineteen ninety six, and
Speaker 2: so the movie became part of a case if anyone
Speaker 2: wants to watch it.
Speaker 4: So in nineteen ninety five, the case of Bottom's v.
Speaker 2: Bottoms reached the Virginia Supreme Court, and in a four
Speaker 2: to three decision, the court determined that the moral climate
Speaker 2: in miss Matt's home made her under made her an
Speaker 2: unfit custodian.
Speaker 4: At this time, I'm like about to throw my computer
Speaker 4: across the room.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So the grandma got permanent custody of Tyler,
Speaker 2: and like bullshit, that never happens, Like Virginia like fuck everyone.
Speaker 2: A justice named A Christian Compton said that the condition
Speaker 2: stemming from active lesbianism practiced in the home may impose
Speaker 2: a burden upon a child because of the social condemnation
Speaker 2: attached to such an arrangement. In quotes by the Washington Post,
Speaker 2: but the social condemnation is coming from you. Yeah, if
Speaker 2: you guys weren't socially condemning, she would be chill. The
Speaker 2: tyler wouldn't know anything. It's like punishing a mother for
Speaker 2: how other is in the town bully without it's the bullies.
Speaker 4: Because that's how I always.
Speaker 2: Feel when people talk about gay children of like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's higher rates of you know, death by suicide and
Speaker 2: all this stuff. And it's like, yeah, but if you
Speaker 2: were nicer to them, they wouldn't be so upset. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have to run away from home and do
Speaker 2: whatever they need to do to survive, right, And then
Speaker 2: of course they're sad their parents kick them out right.
Speaker 2: I to me, it's like, how is no one seeing
Speaker 2: this that's living there. The social condemnation comes from the
Speaker 2: people punishing time. The social condemnation is coming from inside
Speaker 2: the house, Like yeah, fucking crazy we're gonna take you
Speaker 2: out of the home because you're gay and we hate you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we would not want your kid to find
Speaker 1: out and have to deal with your gayness.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 2: So finally, in nineteen ninety six, she abandoned her legal
Speaker 2: fight and never gave an interview again.
Speaker 4: For the rest of her life.
Speaker 2: Sadly, Matt's died January twenty first, twenty nineteen and Richland's,
Speaker 2: North Carolina, at forty years old, due to cancer. Little
Speaker 2: is known about her early years or what happened after
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six. According to Facebook, she married Bill Matts
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve and was the co owner of a
Speaker 2: kennel in North Carolina. Her son, I think is now
Speaker 2: twenty seven. I think this is up today. But he's
Speaker 2: in his twenties, late twenties, and he's served in the military,
Speaker 2: And I am thinking, like how different his life would
Speaker 2: have been if he was just with his mom versus
Speaker 2: like obviously a hateful grandmother.
Speaker 4: So it's like, I just don't understand why.
Speaker 2: Hate, Like why teaching your kid to hate gay people
Speaker 2: is better than just being gay? Yeah, But Okay, So
Speaker 2: he served in the military, he lives in Virginia, and
Speaker 2: he did do a post tribute to his mother on
Speaker 2: Facebook and said she was my very first best friend.
Speaker 2: One of her last public quotes was to the New
Speaker 2: York Times in nineteen ninety five, and it was quoted
Speaker 2: in the post in the Washington Post, she wrote, I
Speaker 2: deserve my baby.
Speaker 4: I gave birth to him. I want him.
Speaker 2: Like, isn't that all we really want parents to do,
Speaker 2: like want and love and want their kid. So the
Speaker 2: grandmother is a nasty woman, and I think we should
Speaker 2: do a special episode where we go to Virginia and
Speaker 2: find this dumb bitch and I.
Speaker 1: Hope and hit her miler home over. I hope Tyler
Speaker 1: doesn't talk to his fucking grandmother. What an asshole. I
Speaker 1: can't believe this is such a sad story. I really
Speaker 1: thought there was going to be like because like at
Speaker 1: one point they ruled in her favor.
Speaker 2: I was like, it'll go back to her, you know,
Speaker 2: Like no, she fucking lost the rights to her child
Speaker 2: because of true homophobia.
Speaker 4: Like nothing else. So gross. So now this is pretty interesting.
Speaker 2: So in the episode, they mentioned parental alienation syndrome known
Speaker 2: as PAS. And what is so funny about this is
Speaker 2: I started doing research, and I'm writing this stuff and.
Speaker 4: I'm reading it, and I'm like, hmm, seems a little off.
Speaker 2: And then I noticed that most of the information describing
Speaker 2: PAS is lawyer's websites, and all the lawyers are white
Speaker 2: man faces, and so all of a sudden, something ring
Speaker 2: and ring the alarms to me, and I was like,
Speaker 2: let me just see if PAS is credible.
Speaker 4: It is rejected by.
Speaker 2: The American psychiahiatary psychology.
Speaker 5: It is not.
Speaker 4: A respected thing at all.
Speaker 2: It is used by mostly abusive men trying to diminish
Speaker 2: mothers who want to stay with their child. And so
Speaker 2: it's really a controversial thing that has been discredited and
Speaker 2: not like respected. But because we live in a patriarchy,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's kind of like Jenny McCarthy with the vaccinations,
Speaker 2: where this dumb bitch quotes an uncredited person and then
Speaker 2: everyone is like anti vacs.
Speaker 4: And that's what happened with the guy who created this.
Speaker 4: His name is Gardner or something.
Speaker 2: I'll obviously get into all of this, Richard Gardner, and
Speaker 2: he came up with this in the eighties and then
Speaker 2: it was debunked.
Speaker 4: But lawyers use it all the time in courts and
Speaker 4: it's really fucked up.
Speaker 2: So it also taught me how like if I didn't,
Speaker 2: if I, if I wasn't someone that does so much research,
Speaker 2: I could have just probably like wrote PAS and lived
Speaker 2: my life and just told everyone about it.
Speaker 4: Thank God, is the respect of.
Speaker 6: Mighty senses were like tingling, well yeah, because then it
Speaker 6: was something of like, well I think I I do
Speaker 6: believe you should believe a kid if they say they're
Speaker 6: being a beaute, Like I wonder what's going and then
Speaker 6: all I'm telling you I went it was like four
Speaker 6: law offices.
Speaker 4: All men.
Speaker 1: But what about like I mean, definitely parents do use
Speaker 1: their children as pawns and will try to corrupt their children.
Speaker 4: So are do you are you going to get into that?
Speaker 4: Like that is something even if it's a PAS. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so fal sack.
Speaker 2: So one of the stats is like his whole thing
Speaker 2: was ninety eight percent of women lie about being abused.
Speaker 2: That was his sticking and then the Department of Justice
Speaker 2: said the real rate is actually two percent. So you know,
Speaker 2: do parents like the grandma that's the me in the
Speaker 2: episode there was PAS like the grandma tried, you know,
Speaker 2: try to try Emma against Zoe, and am I saying
Speaker 2: there's never cases where parents are like your dad sucks,
Speaker 2: he's a piece of shit, like all of that, of
Speaker 2: course not, but I'll get into the numbers of like
Speaker 2: how many children die after being forced into an abusive
Speaker 2: person's home because of PAS defense. Okay, so PAS, we're
Speaker 2: gonna pretend it's I mean, I don't think it's completely
Speaker 2: void of reality that if that parents hate each other
Speaker 2: and are in a custody war would say means shit
Speaker 2: about each other.
Speaker 4: So they're kids, Like, I don't think that's it doesn't happen, right, And.
Speaker 1: Also in like a world where Munchausen exists, like there
Speaker 1: are also parents that are like I want you to
Speaker 1: love me and not your other parent, you know.
Speaker 2: Like So PAS is a strategy where one's parents intentionally
Speaker 2: display unjustified negativity towards another parent to the child. It
Speaker 2: is a term coined by a forensic psychiatrist who is
Speaker 2: dead but his name is Richard Gardner, and he said
Speaker 2: it was a phenomenon he witnessed where children were being
Speaker 2: turned against one parent, and it usually came up during
Speaker 2: divorce or bitter custody battles, Like duh, when else would
Speaker 2: it come up? So it is not accepted as a
Speaker 2: scientifically valid at all, and it is not a diagnosable
Speaker 2: mental condition.
Speaker 3: Got it.
Speaker 2: Most of his work was self published and non peer reviewed,
Speaker 2: and his evidence was all anecdotal. There was no scientific
Speaker 2: evidence for this, and his positions have caused a lot
Speaker 2: of controversy among those who are involved in the detection
Speaker 2: and treatment of child's abuse. So a site called Stop
Speaker 2: Abuse Campaign dot org says that PAS is not based
Speaker 2: on any research, but rather the personal beliefs and experience
Speaker 2: and bias of doctor Gardner, a guy who assumed that
Speaker 2: virtually all reports of domestic violence or child abuse must
Speaker 2: be false. They claim that in the nineteen eighties he
Speaker 2: would help wealthy abusers gain custody.
Speaker 4: And so they have a YouTube video.
Speaker 2: It's posted in the sources and so here I may
Speaker 2: main takeaways from the Stop Abuse Campaign's YouTube.
Speaker 4: Video about PAS.
Speaker 2: And so this video is made in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: and they say from twenty ten to twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: seven hundred and seventy three children have died as a
Speaker 2: result of joint custody and soul custody to a parent
Speaker 2: that is abusive. They say about fifty eight thousand kids
Speaker 2: are sent back to to abusive homes by the courts.
Speaker 2: And like I sow, yeah, it's a debunked theory to
Speaker 2: say most accusations are false, but there's no basins in
Speaker 2: science or research. But it has become a routinely accepted
Speaker 2: theory in family law courts. Like I said, that was
Speaker 2: the only place I found descriptions of PAS.
Speaker 4: Were male lawyers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's become a profitable industry on building a
Speaker 2: cur Like so people have built full careers on this
Speaker 2: theory and now it's become a huge obstacle for families
Speaker 2: trying to live an abuse free life. And PAS is
Speaker 2: very gender bias. You know, mothers are carrying the brunt
Speaker 2: of this dude's theory because they're turning their children against
Speaker 2: their husbands.
Speaker 4: Correct.
Speaker 1: So basically a kid is like, my dad hits me,
Speaker 1: my dad hits my mom. My dad is bad, And
Speaker 1: they go, oh, you're a victim of PAS. Your mother
Speaker 1: has turned you against And in this situation, it's like
Speaker 1: in this situation of the episode, I feel like it
Speaker 1: worked because there was no evidence and she had never
Speaker 1: brought this up before, so it worked like as a
Speaker 1: legit thing. When Huang said it You're like, Okay, that
Speaker 1: makes sense because the evidence is all there, but like
Speaker 1: because it wasn't something the kid had been saying from
Speaker 1: the get and there wasn't evidence, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, and the grandma is guilty in this episode.
Speaker 2: And that's my ass to view. Is such a good show.
Speaker 2: So more about this Gardener guy. It's it's just like
Speaker 2: one loud man with a wrong idea and boom. Abuse
Speaker 2: cases for decades are affected. Like I said, he testified
Speaker 2: in over four hundred child custody cases and fought for
Speaker 2: kids to be taken out of the home of the
Speaker 2: alienating pas parent and give custody to the parents accused
Speaker 2: of abuse. He worked with Woody Allen on that case
Speaker 2: other big cases. I don't know if I wanted to talk. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I didn't add it. I didn't add it in the search.
Speaker 2: But you can find all this out. He advertised himself
Speaker 2: as advocating for the defense in child abuse cases.
Speaker 4: So take what that which you will.
Speaker 2: But nonetheless, like I said, he was a professor of
Speaker 2: child psychiatry in the College of Physicians and Surgeons at
Speaker 2: Columbia University from nineteen sixty three until his death. You know,
Speaker 2: that my brother went there and they call it p
Speaker 2: ands and it just sounds like kenis like they just
Speaker 2: say pns all the time.
Speaker 4: We got to ask Colin if he knows about this guy. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I will.
Speaker 2: He has a quote where he wrote, there is good
Speaker 2: reason to believe that most, if not all, children have
Speaker 2: the capacity to reach orgasm at the time that they
Speaker 2: are born.
Speaker 4: What which is not true?
Speaker 1: And why is the what's your good reason to believe that?
Speaker 1: Oh he's a man a pedophile.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he believes that pedophilia is like homosexuality or bestiality
Speaker 2: or whatever, which those two aren't similar. But he thinks
Speaker 2: being a pedophile is just an orientation. And then once
Speaker 2: he was accused of being a pedophile, he did an
Speaker 2: interview where he's like, no, you could you know being
Speaker 2: a murderer is also a thing in your brain. I
Speaker 2: can that you can or no, He's like, I can
Speaker 2: think those things are ingrained in you while not supporting them.
Speaker 2: But he believes that teens come on to people and
Speaker 2: what if the child seduces a man? So he had
Speaker 2: a lot like I just wrote one, but he has
Speaker 2: like tons of in quotes from on the stand interviews
Speaker 2: in his books, writings about how kids flirt, they come
Speaker 2: on to you, what if you were seduced, and that
Speaker 2: it's a normal sexuality and it doesn't have that much damage.
Speaker 4: And I guess he thinks that children can orgasm and
Speaker 4: he loves.
Speaker 2: What he Allen says, Christ Yeah, I bet he's been
Speaker 2: to Epstein Island. He did die by suicide, which kind
Speaker 2: of cool, I guess, by stabbing himself at his home
Speaker 2: on May twenty fifth, two thousand and three, at age
Speaker 2: seventy two. His son said that he had been distraught
Speaker 2: over the advancing symptoms of reflex sympathetic dystrophy, which was a.
Speaker 4: Painful neurological syndrome that he got.
Speaker 1: And so, but like, aren't there pet pills you could
Speaker 1: take or something that doesn't like involve bleeding out for
Speaker 1: like your family to find you.
Speaker 4: Jesus, Sorry, that's really a lot. We are shocked by
Speaker 4: cases often, we're always shocked, actually on this show.
Speaker 1: But I am this is really shocking. I'm really glad
Speaker 1: that you followed your intuition, which is very you. You
Speaker 1: you never don't follow your intuition. But like, I'm just shocked,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm just shocked. Everybody just try to pick
Speaker 1: your jaw up off the floor and hang on for
Speaker 1: our interview, because we've got a great interview coming up
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is an actor who is frequently typecast
Speaker 1: as an evil bitch, but is in reality very fun
Speaker 1: and lovely person. You might know her from her sitcom
Speaker 1: work as a regular on Caroline in the City, The Office,
Speaker 1: and Modern Family. You can currently see her on the
Speaker 1: new supernatural drama wolf Pack, but you know her today
Speaker 1: as rock and roll lesbian mom Zoe Dunlop. Please enjoy
Speaker 1: our convo with the delightful Amy Pete's.
Speaker 4: We're so Happier here, an iconic episode of sv You.
Speaker 3: It feels that way. It's a real boosy it.
Speaker 2: Well it is, I mean one of our favorite things
Speaker 2: about this show, and very few people are able to achieve.
Speaker 4: This is one singular tier. Drop it.
Speaker 3: And you you did that, nailed it?
Speaker 4: Do you plan for one singular tier or it just happens? Like,
Speaker 4: how does that?
Speaker 5: You kind of stuck on this singular tier thing? I've
Speaker 5: heard you ask this of other people.
Speaker 4: How does she's obsessed?
Speaker 3: No? No, no, it's a possible to put.
Speaker 5: That's like saying I'm going to have an orgasm, but
Speaker 5: it's only gonna last a certain amount of time and
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna you.
Speaker 4: Know what, But do you feel good that good when
Speaker 4: you nail it?
Speaker 5: Do when they like, yeah, it does feel as good
Speaker 5: as an orgasm when you nail that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got in it. Yeah, you're kind of like, ooh.
Speaker 5: I'm really premenstrual and I'm very emotional and if I
Speaker 5: can just imagine having one cocktail, I'll be open enough
Speaker 5: to cry.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Love that, love it.
Speaker 3: What is like?
Speaker 4: So, how was the what was the process of getting
Speaker 4: this part?
Speaker 1: Like they just sentenced you and they were like, hey,
Speaker 1: we think you'd make a great lesbian mom or like what.
Speaker 5: I cannot remember if I auditioned or if I was
Speaker 5: offered this because I was kind of like hot for
Speaker 5: like ten seconds in my career. I wish it would
Speaker 5: have lasted at least sixty but it was really only
Speaker 5: time seconds, so I don't remember.
Speaker 3: I don't remember auditioning for this, so it may have
Speaker 3: been an offer.
Speaker 5: And I was thrilled to go to New Jersey and
Speaker 5: work there with Chris Maloney and Marushka Hargate, and I
Speaker 5: thought it was going to be pretty great.
Speaker 3: And it was. It was, It was really great.
Speaker 5: Maloney and Marishka were very intense, very quiet, very professional,
Speaker 5: and I just felt like goofing off all the time,
Speaker 5: and I had to, like, I had to be really
Speaker 5: serious all the time.
Speaker 3: I had to squelch my natural instinct to goo around.
Speaker 4: Interesting.
Speaker 1: Interesting was we hear that about Maloney, but we hear
Speaker 1: Marishka can kind of loosen up and be funny sometimes.
Speaker 3: But she was warm. She was definitely warm to me
Speaker 3: and lovely, you know.
Speaker 5: But if I had to do a procedural, I would
Speaker 5: have to change my entire personality.
Speaker 3: There's the way I could survive that for as many
Speaker 3: years as they did. Well.
Speaker 1: This was also like this season was like I would say,
Speaker 1: almost like the height of the whole series, Like seven
Speaker 1: is like it's I think it's the season, Marushka one
Speaker 1: me like it's really like they were turning it on
Speaker 1: at this point, like really banging out. Some of the
Speaker 1: most classic apps are in this season. So you should
Speaker 1: be proud to be part of such an iconic season.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm so proud. In this episode, I watched it.
Speaker 5: Again because I hadn't seen it in it forever and.
Speaker 4: I laughed a lot.
Speaker 2: The lines, Oh my.
Speaker 3: God, the writing was hilarious in this episode.
Speaker 4: Yes, what were your highlights?
Speaker 5: It's really in the beginning. The first act I think
Speaker 5: has the funniest shit in it. Not only were there
Speaker 5: lines like what were you doing down.
Speaker 3: At the store?
Speaker 5: They got pixie sticks to like two cops one of
Speaker 5: them it has a thing for pixie sticks just because
Speaker 5: she's cute.
Speaker 4: And the friend of the pod, Oh yeah, she's been
Speaker 4: on the podcast.
Speaker 3: That was the hilarious line.
Speaker 5: There were many hilarious sense when when Belzer help holds
Speaker 5: up scissors, is like our kids able to touch these?
Speaker 5: Like like kids aren't allowed to touch it's like an
Speaker 5: AR fifty seven.
Speaker 3: No, it's a scissors. Yes, kids are gonna touch scissors.
Speaker 5: All their investigative stuff and act when it was hilarious
Speaker 5: and the camera angles were even really good.
Speaker 4: I just I loved it.
Speaker 2: Well, I do another thing that's I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's funny or not. The kid was wearing a wig, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah okay.
Speaker 3: And have you have you googled her? Because I was
Speaker 3: really curious about this girl and she's like a singer,
Speaker 3: like a like a hot sya Toatzy singer.
Speaker 2: Now, oh, I did google her, but her IMDb looks
Speaker 2: like it was done, so I didn't look further.
Speaker 4: But I guess she's.
Speaker 1: Singing yeah yeah, and her ig she's got a bunch
Speaker 1: of followers and she's the singing.
Speaker 3: She's so cute.
Speaker 4: She's all grown up.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 5: I love that girl's face, and she was really sweet
Speaker 5: and her accent was so thick.
Speaker 4: She's like, mommy, what do we do when women knew you?
Speaker 3: Look?
Speaker 4: Did you do you have any stories or bonding moments with.
Speaker 2: The child's with I mean, this was twenty three years ago. Well,
Speaker 2: I also have another wild question that's considering how long ago.
Speaker 4: I feel like it might be crazy to ask, but.
Speaker 5: Let's ask those crazy questions because my long term memory
Speaker 5: is completely shot.
Speaker 4: Maloney's like showing you the pedophile photos. Oh my god,
Speaker 4: look do you remember, like what was it?
Speaker 3: Just?
Speaker 4: Was it anything?
Speaker 3: Okay? Well, what do you mean was it anything anything? Like?
Speaker 4: Was he show the piece of paper?
Speaker 2: What was it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: No, there there were pictures of like a little girl
Speaker 5: on her side. She wasn't naked or anything, but like
Speaker 5: they were the real pictures.
Speaker 3: But what cracked me up the most about that was
Speaker 3: I used.
Speaker 5: That theme for my real and one of the things
Speaker 5: I couldn't get past and I almost didn't use it,
Speaker 5: was because when I'm crying and he's showing me the pictures,
Speaker 5: I say.
Speaker 3: Something like, what do you think this is porn? But
Speaker 3: because my nose was stuffy, it sounded like I said,
Speaker 3: what do you think this is corn?
Speaker 5: But you you obviously didn't pick up on that, so
Speaker 5: maybe I porn.
Speaker 4: I didn't hear corn. I thought you said porn, but okay,
Speaker 4: that's good.
Speaker 3: Didn't do adr, so it.
Speaker 2: Must have just been me, I guess the first What
Speaker 2: else was funny to me that the grandma at the
Speaker 2: end thought that you guys were going to be friends again.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like you falsely accused me of molesting my daughter.
Speaker 4: You were not going to be tight lady. You brainwashed her? Doesn't.
Speaker 5: Yeah, not only was that weird, but the little boy
Speaker 5: that torments her like basically attempted rape and some kind
Speaker 5: of sexual assault because he kissed her. You know, he's like,
Speaker 5: I'll turn you. You're not gay, I'll turn you straight.
Speaker 5: And nobody deals with that, do they?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: No, No, everyone's just this poor boy.
Speaker 1: I will never walk this poor homophobic boy will never
Speaker 1: walk again owner.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I was going to say Stephen Bogartist who
Speaker 5: plays the attorney of the grand parents. He and I
Speaker 5: later did a musical together. He is a lovely individual,
Speaker 5: and I was just trying to think of other people
Speaker 5: I knew in the episode by.
Speaker 4: What musical were you in?
Speaker 5: We did a musical called Falsettos, which he did on
Speaker 5: Broadway and then the LA reprise version of it. I
Speaker 5: played another lesbian, so that I was kind of typecast
Speaker 5: as a lesbian. In the nineties, it was either slut
Speaker 5: or lesbian, and the two were very very close together.
Speaker 5: According to society and casting at that time, they just thought, well,
Speaker 5: lesbians must be slutty. Yes, we can cast Amy as
Speaker 5: both a heterosexual quote unquote slut and a lesbian, and
Speaker 5: that so VERSI. Yeah, wide ranging arts played there, But
Speaker 5: now I just play really nasty, narcissistic bitches.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah?
Speaker 4: Is that fun?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 5: You know, no, got to say no, it's it's I've
Speaker 5: played so many of them now that and people treat
Speaker 5: you differently on set, you know, that whole thing of
Speaker 5: like they kind of assume you are the character.
Speaker 3: Even the crew and other actors.
Speaker 5: Just assume you're going to be a narcissistic bitch if
Speaker 5: you're playing one. It's it's weird as you age and
Speaker 5: you know, you look sort of like an entitled Karen,
Speaker 5: and then they just think you are right interesting.
Speaker 4: I can't believe that happens.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I mean it happens to me at airports
Speaker 5: with like airport security. People just assume I'm going to
Speaker 5: cause some kind of major castle and call the manager
Speaker 5: and make a scene just because of how I look.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow, I mean we're all profiled, aren't we.
Speaker 2: People don't think I belong in pre checks sometimes and
Speaker 2: I have to be like I am I'm oh really yeah,
Speaker 2: or like I am diamond actually, so I'm I'm going here.
Speaker 5: They don't believe that you have racked up that many miles,
Speaker 5: I mean that much of an expert traveler.
Speaker 4: Huh Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like recently the guy was like, you're going in this line.
Speaker 2: I go, I'm actually not, sir, But but I do
Speaker 2: dress extra insane at the airport. I wear my iced
Speaker 2: tea sweatshirt at the airport, So I think that might
Speaker 2: give off a vibe that I'm not aware of that
Speaker 2: might be a little you're.
Speaker 3: Not a serious person. Only people get pre checked.
Speaker 4: I'm serious. Yes, I think that is the vibe it gives.
Speaker 3: I would give anything for that ice two sweatshirt. I
Speaker 3: love that.
Speaker 2: But I'm more shocked that the crew, since you would
Speaker 2: think they know that it's acting, that they would separate
Speaker 2: you from your narcissist character.
Speaker 3: I have to overcompensate.
Speaker 5: I have to be like extra warm and like bake
Speaker 5: them a bunkcake, you know, and like bring it to
Speaker 5: set and do foot massages or.
Speaker 3: Something, which I used to do premi too.
Speaker 5: No I'm kidding, I never did, But like I really
Speaker 5: have to like smile a lot, be all midwestern so
Speaker 5: that people know I'm not really that that nasty bitch
Speaker 5: they think I am.
Speaker 2: You were on like everyone kind of now fantasizes and
Speaker 2: reminisces that that was like the best time on television
Speaker 2: and that everyone was just like rich, popular and living
Speaker 2: the life completely.
Speaker 5: I mean that it was the easiest job ever because
Speaker 5: you work about thirty six to forty hours a week.
Speaker 3: You know, you roll in at ten.
Speaker 5: Am, You get fed lunch and breakfast and all the
Speaker 5: snacks you want.
Speaker 3: There was a gym under the stage, so if I
Speaker 3: was in myhors thing. I'd go down and like stretch
Speaker 3: and lift a few ways. Then I'd go to my
Speaker 3: dressing them and do.
Speaker 5: My nails, and then I go back to the stage
Speaker 5: and just like goof and be funny.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it was the best. It was the best.
Speaker 3: Like there wasn't I.
Speaker 5: Don't know, six thousand channels and so people really were
Speaker 5: watching your show, you know, like tens of millions of people,
Speaker 5: and they paid great, which they don't do anymore, and
Speaker 5: it was a great easy life.
Speaker 3: Yeah I could go back, I would well.
Speaker 1: And I mean and like to get even more base.
Speaker 1: Just networks bought sitcoms. I mean, it's not a Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're not even really like sitcoms like that anymore.
Speaker 3: I know, I don't think they go because I think
Speaker 3: they started sucking.
Speaker 5: I think they started making them really poorly, and they
Speaker 5: thought that a sitcom was just joke after joke with
Speaker 5: really mediocre actors. And it's supposed to be based in
Speaker 5: the theater. I supposed to have like it's supposed to
Speaker 5: be the trickiest twenty two minutes, the most clever twenty
Speaker 5: two minutes. It's supposed to it's supposed to be a
Speaker 5: really challenging art form, and they took it for granted.
Speaker 3: I think because they they didn't, they didn't know that shit.
Speaker 4: That's interesting.
Speaker 1: I never thought about it that way because, yeah, Live
Speaker 1: Audience like kind of the way it's set up, it
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense a lot of those sitcoms were well.
Speaker 3: Don't you think the older ones are phenomenal? You know?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Seinfeldt like so many all these shows
Speaker 1: like still hold up. Yeah, Leah Thompson has been in SVU.
Speaker 2: She has.
Speaker 3: I'm sure we all have, haven't we all been in SVU.
Speaker 4: Well, we've talked to.
Speaker 2: You've worked with Stephen Weber a lot. He's an SVO
Speaker 2: Alive friend of the pod.
Speaker 3: He's a hilarious, charming, wonderful, very charming.
Speaker 4: Oh, we had the best sign with I felt for him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were, I know, he's a charmer. Had a
Speaker 3: crush on Stephen Webber for.
Speaker 1: We were in Chicago and we sent him an email.
Speaker 1: We were like, come meet us out after our show.
Speaker 3: I hope he did. He probably didn't because he knew.
Speaker 1: Said he had an ear. He had a super early
Speaker 1: call time. Like okay, you can't like look bad on
Speaker 1: Chicago med or whatever.
Speaker 3: It is you know, Oh, come on, how old is he?
Speaker 3: He can look bad for a day. It's not going
Speaker 3: to make that much of a difference. It's the same
Speaker 3: with me now, I don't care. I'm like, yeah, puppy eyes,
Speaker 3: that's just a part of it, the whole puppy saggy thing.
Speaker 3: What difference is it going to make?
Speaker 4: Love it? You're fun, You're fun.
Speaker 5: I can't believe you guys are doing this podcast.
Speaker 4: It's really crazy, isn't it It is? It's crazy exists and.
Speaker 5: To explain the whole damn plot, can I ask you
Speaker 5: is this already written or do you guys have to like.
Speaker 4: Look, we write it in our own voices.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well yeah after this, I'm not for this,
Speaker 2: but I'm researching the crime.
Speaker 4: I'm for a different episode, and I.
Speaker 1: Have to go watch an episode and like type out
Speaker 1: exactly what happens or whatever. So yeah, we I mean
Speaker 1: there are some episodes there exists, synopsis is online, but
Speaker 1: I can't imagine if like we just got on and
Speaker 1: just read those.
Speaker 2: You know, we research and we researched the crime. Tomorrow's
Speaker 2: crime is good. But we were at a comedy festival
Speaker 2: all weekend and so we did not do our work
Speaker 2: ahead of time.
Speaker 5: Okay, gotcha, I understand your business social We were networking
Speaker 5: pretty hard into the early morning hours every night's work.
Speaker 4: I did twice.
Speaker 3: That's aw.
Speaker 2: You're in another one of our favorite shows. You were
Speaker 2: in the series finale, Dexter.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes you could. You could feel the tension between
Speaker 3: the two leads. I think they had just divorced.
Speaker 4: Yes, riding in the van, that was a little tense.
Speaker 4: Give us the tea, Give us that dex tea.
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean I just tried to keep my mouth shut.
Speaker 5: That's one where you keep your head down when you
Speaker 5: know that they're in the tabloids for having just divorce,
Speaker 5: and you just don't I just didn't want to talk
Speaker 5: to anybody because I thought, knowing me, I'm going to
Speaker 5: be like, so, how's it like me, what's it like work? Yeah,
Speaker 5: And that would have really sucked for both me and them.
Speaker 5: So I had the sensibility to keep my mouth shut.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I did a lot of little
Speaker 5: guess pop star things here or there. It's much more
Speaker 5: fun to do the regular jobs where you can include
Speaker 5: people as your family and you get to stick with them.
Speaker 5: For a long time, and they get to see you
Speaker 5: at your best and your worst and you can goof around.
Speaker 5: That's way more fun than just popping in for a
Speaker 5: day and try to keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 4: Yeah, trying to keep your mouth shut. And it was
Speaker 4: a wild one because it was like the end of
Speaker 4: the it was the last episod.
Speaker 3: The whole finale of the series.
Speaker 2: Yeah, are you there?
Speaker 4: When everyone was like crying during their wraps and stuff.
Speaker 5: Again, I think it was more of a tension, and
Speaker 5: I'm sure they were all distracted and like onto their
Speaker 5: other projects and mixed had mixed emotions.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 5: You know, people get it can be a grind the
Speaker 5: one hour drama. Being a regular and a one hour
Speaker 5: drama can be a real grind for them, especially when
Speaker 5: you don't get to laugh as much as I get
Speaker 5: to laugh when I'm a series regular on other genres
Speaker 5: of shows. And so, you know, you see a lot
Speaker 5: of tired actors, you know, at five am in the
Speaker 5: makeup trailer, and then they're tired in the middle of
Speaker 5: the day and everybody has like six coffees to stay awake.
Speaker 3: And then at the end of the day they just
Speaker 3: cannot wait to get out of there. So, yeah, it's
Speaker 3: way more fun to be on a sitcom.
Speaker 4: You prefer sitcoms? Okay? Cool? Interesting? Do you like the
Speaker 4: audience of it or are just in terms of comedy
Speaker 4: you like the live audience.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I do a lot of theater as well. But if
Speaker 5: I don't have a live audience and I'm on a
Speaker 5: single camera comedy which really means five cameras instead of
Speaker 5: the four in a sitcomb, then the crew is my audience.
Speaker 5: And so if I can get the crew to crack up,
Speaker 5: then then I feel just fine. I feel like all
Speaker 5: is right with the world.
Speaker 3: And yeah I can I can breathe, And that's what
Speaker 3: you want.
Speaker 5: You want, you know, you want to see the camera
Speaker 5: shake a little bit or people covering their mouths, stuff
Speaker 5: like that.
Speaker 3: It's fun.
Speaker 4: Are you so? Are you based in La?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So?
Speaker 4: Are you do do theater here then? Or do you
Speaker 4: like go out on the road and do like like
Speaker 4: other cities?
Speaker 3: I do both. Did you know what I just read?
Speaker 5: Los Angeles has does more productions of theater than New York?
Speaker 4: Really?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Is that crazy? Doesn't mean they're all good?
Speaker 5: But help, I've seen crap in New York too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I do.
Speaker 5: I do theater and I do a play every couple
Speaker 5: of years. The last one I did in La was
Speaker 5: at the Market Taper.
Speaker 3: It was Sweat.
Speaker 5: Then I just did a new play workshop up in Ashland,
Speaker 5: Oregon for a new Lisa Lumer play.
Speaker 3: I did a I did Designing Women for the stage.
Speaker 4: Which one were you?
Speaker 3: I was crazy? I was the Delta Burke role, like
Speaker 3: you believe that. I know, I'm definitely more anti pots,
Speaker 3: but yeah.
Speaker 5: So I played the Susanne sugar Baker role in an
Speaker 5: updated new play written by the same writer as the
Speaker 5: TV series and incredible woman, Linda Bledworth Thompson, and she
Speaker 5: said it when Biden got elected, so and COVID hit
Speaker 5: and it's all the same women, but they're dealing with
Speaker 5: the politics of living in Atlanta and having Trumpers and
Speaker 5: Progressives all together, and it was it was really funny.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 5: They're still doing it in other cities. So they would
Speaker 5: love to take it to Broadway. We'll see, we'll see
Speaker 5: what happens. I don't think I'll be a part of it.
Speaker 5: I think that's what they would intend. It was too long,
Speaker 5: three three hours long.
Speaker 4: That's a lot of designing women.
Speaker 1: That's a lot when we're all used to, we're all
Speaker 1: used to really just an episode at a time.
Speaker 3: What are you, what have you?
Speaker 1: What do you have going on right now? I mean
Speaker 1: your IMDb has stuff on it, but we never know
Speaker 1: if those are correct.
Speaker 5: I yeah, I recur on a show called wolf Pack,
Speaker 5: where I play a narcissistic evil bitch and I'm the
Speaker 5: sort of the Mary Tyler Warren ordinary people mom to
Speaker 5: one of the wolves.
Speaker 3: Poor kid. He yeah, I really did a number on
Speaker 3: him in.
Speaker 5: His childhood and it's so bad that he needs a
Speaker 5: super power to survive me.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and I bet he'll kill me.
Speaker 5: I've been told, but I would think I would think
Speaker 5: I'm not going to be alive.
Speaker 3: I'm really evil on the show.
Speaker 4: Oh wow.
Speaker 5: Yeah. And then, as I mentioned, I am developing my
Speaker 5: own show, a big ensemble.
Speaker 3: How do I say it?
Speaker 5: It's about white Christian nationals trying to destroy our democracy.
Speaker 3: So I got that going on.
Speaker 4: Those are not.
Speaker 3: Melo drama.
Speaker 5: There'll be some there'll be some true life comedy happening there,
Speaker 5: and true life crime.
Speaker 3: And true life desperation.
Speaker 4: Wow wow wow exciting. Well, we'll keep an eye out
Speaker 4: for that. Would you be in it?
Speaker 3: If Marissa Tomay does not get the role.
Speaker 4: I will play it. It's amazing.
Speaker 2: I want to know your perspective. You seem honest and
Speaker 2: in it. What are your like when you show up
Speaker 2: on set? What are your big like red flag pet
Speaker 2: peeves where you're like, oh, this is going to be
Speaker 2: a day.
Speaker 5: They have been the aforementioned silence in the van from
Speaker 5: the place where you.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't want to use too many sex stories.
Speaker 5: But after you get your hair and makeup on and
Speaker 5: you're getting you're going to set. If there's a bit
Speaker 5: of distance to travel, they put you in a van
Speaker 5: and you all travel together.
Speaker 3: And if it's silent in the van, is going to
Speaker 3: be a longe day?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 4: Interesting?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And then also what's very telling? And then I
Speaker 3: know how to prepare.
Speaker 5: I just stay away from the leads because shit travels downhill, right,
Speaker 5: So somebody up at the top is making everybody unhappy.
Speaker 5: It's either one of the leads or one or one
Speaker 5: of the producers, or somebody out there is an asshole,
Speaker 5: and so you just have to keep your head down,
Speaker 5: keep your mouth shut, show up and do your job
Speaker 5: and go home.
Speaker 4: Okay, stay away from the leads and chat out then.
Speaker 5: If they don't, if they don't say hello, yeah, that's
Speaker 5: a good that's a good sign that you probably just
Speaker 5: not attempt to ever say hello again.
Speaker 4: You should write a book, right do people tell you that?
Speaker 4: A lot?
Speaker 3: They do not about that.
Speaker 5: They tell me to write books about all the other
Speaker 5: horrid affairs and experiences I've had.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I probably would get sued.
Speaker 5: You're right, I I you know, I'm a little honest
Speaker 5: about that stuff, and that's known as libel or defamation.
Speaker 5: I'm sure there'd be some legal reason I would be
Speaker 5: in trouble. So it's a good thing I don't write
Speaker 5: that stuff down.
Speaker 2: No, I can't wait. I hope yours show fucking crushes.
Speaker 2: Would you rather have marisitomey or would you rather be
Speaker 2: in it?
Speaker 3: I would rather be in it for sure, for sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm I'm It's very autobiographical and it's one of
Speaker 5: the most fun roles on it in this series that
Speaker 5: I am writing. And it's kind of the comedic relief
Speaker 5: but very tragic. So it's a good one.
Speaker 3: It's a good one. I would love to play it.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, you two could definitely play like sisters for sure.
Speaker 1: Have you been going up against her like your entire career, No,
Speaker 1: because she.
Speaker 5: Got super famous and then I just stayed in TV
Speaker 5: and then got less famous.
Speaker 3: But I remember, I remember waiting tables.
Speaker 5: In Chicago and I hadn't even gotten on my first
Speaker 5: series yet. I was working at the Goose Island micro
Speaker 5: Brewery and I had the most vivid dream of Marisitome.
Speaker 3: My cousin Vinnie had just come out, and everybody was like,
Speaker 3: you look like cars to me. You look like Mercy
Speaker 3: to me, You act like mar to You're like Mercy
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 5: So I had a dream that the dream opens with
Speaker 5: me the pov of my hand knocking on a trailer door,
Speaker 5: you know, a trailer where actors go and hang out,
Speaker 5: And I'm knocking on the trailer door, and Mercy to
Speaker 5: my opens and I'm and I look down and I've
Speaker 5: got like a headset on my head and a walkie
Speaker 5: talkie and I'm the PA on a movie that she's
Speaker 5: shooting and she's the star of. And I remember thinking
Speaker 5: she's going to surpass me, and I will be upset
Speaker 5: about this for the rest of my life.
Speaker 3: And that's what happened.
Speaker 5: You're a psychic, a psychic, but I haven't been a
Speaker 5: PA yet, so a production.
Speaker 4: Yet, that's not I don't think that's in the cards
Speaker 4: for you. Oh, thank you so much, Amy. This was awesome.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you girls.
Speaker 4: I loved her.
Speaker 2: I want to hang out with her. I want to
Speaker 2: do everything. I want to talk shit and gossip and
Speaker 2: make fun of things and maybe I don't know, have
Speaker 2: a mohido in the backyard.
Speaker 4: She's fun.
Speaker 1: I want to see her get cast as like Marissa
Speaker 1: Tomay's like fucked up sister or something like Marissa Tomey
Speaker 1: is the good girl and then she's like the one
Speaker 1: that can't get her act together or something.
Speaker 4: I want to see that. Maybe I'm gonna write that
Speaker 4: show for them.
Speaker 2: I mean, as much as we love Amy, this episode
Speaker 2: is so infuriating.
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of like why's in this episode,
Speaker 1: Like why are you sending your child to Catholic school
Speaker 1: when they actively hate.
Speaker 4: What you what you stand for.
Speaker 2: But you know, I already talk about the Hillsong documentary
Speaker 2: on this podcast.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I forget when, but we did. Okay, great.
Speaker 2: It's just when people are like, oh, I can't believe
Speaker 2: this church is patriarchal, it's like, yeah, yeah, what do
Speaker 2: you think was gonna happen? I just don't get pushing
Speaker 2: your kids, But I meant the infuriating more of the
Speaker 2: true crime in the naties in the nineties, a grandma
Speaker 2: just snatching her daughter's kid. What because she's like, it
Speaker 2: is it's bonkers that that happened, and it is.
Speaker 4: I don't know everything.
Speaker 1: It's really high baking, Like I really I really hated
Speaker 1: hearing about that.
Speaker 4: But I mean, atting Target, what are we doing?
Speaker 3: You know what?
Speaker 1: It's tough because I read this whole Twitter thread from
Speaker 1: a trans worker at Target who was like, yeah, move
Speaker 1: the display to the back. I don't want to get shot.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's I need to get shot for
Speaker 1: this performative ally ship like who Like Target's been forever
Speaker 1: supporting gay LGBTQ community. They have done it forever, like
Speaker 1: just because the stuff's not right in the front. I
Speaker 1: don't want to get shot. I don't think my life
Speaker 1: is worth getting hurt by these people, which I understand
Speaker 1: their point of view, but I also feel like, let's
Speaker 1: get security and get people out of there. The minute
Speaker 1: you touch a display, you're fucking out of there.
Speaker 4: But you never know.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like they're too fast, these people with guns.
Speaker 1: I also, I also don't live in an open carry state.
Speaker 1: I don't live in a state where you know, I
Speaker 1: feel like guns are just everybody fucking has a million
Speaker 1: of them. So I'm not I'm speaking from a privileged
Speaker 1: place where I go to my Target and I feel
Speaker 1: pretty safe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just the hateful people really have swayed. Dude,
Speaker 2: Like I heard the stocks. It's just it is because
Speaker 2: it's been pride shit at Target for years.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well alcohol rinds go gay every June for years.
Speaker 1: I know, but it, like everything, it's complete miscommunication. With
Speaker 1: Dylan mulvaney, they sent her one bud light can and
Speaker 1: they thought this transperson is gonna be on all my
Speaker 1: bud light cans, and that's when they went crazy.
Speaker 4: It's not true. I don't know why you care, but
Speaker 4: it's also not true.
Speaker 1: They also for the Target thing, they thought that there
Speaker 1: was tucking tucking bathing suits being sold to children.
Speaker 4: They're not.
Speaker 1: They're in adult sizes, they're not four children like, So
Speaker 1: everything's misinformation. They all just get misinformation, and they're all
Speaker 1: like dumb and can't think critically, the.
Speaker 4: Bigots, So it's tough. It's really tough.
Speaker 1: But I understand Target wanting to keep their employees safe.
Speaker 1: But I also understand the idea of not cow tewing,
Speaker 1: like don't negotiate with terrorists. But actually, our former guests
Speaker 1: of this podcast, Rachelle Lefev, was going through it because
Speaker 1: she put up on her Instagram because she has a
Speaker 1: non binary child, and then all these people were coming
Speaker 1: at her in the comments about her non binary.
Speaker 4: Child and it was fucked up.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 4: There's just a lot of gross hate out there, and
Speaker 4: it is and for us too.
Speaker 2: It's like all we do is research how the straits
Speaker 2: are out there killing and molesting, Like, yeah, all of
Speaker 2: our evidence points to it's your dad, it's your uncle,
Speaker 2: and it's your pastor so like you barely.
Speaker 1: Ever had a crime where it was an LGBTQ person,
Speaker 1: Like barely well maybe I know.
Speaker 4: I think Eileen Warnos was into women, but you know,
Speaker 4: she did what she had to do.
Speaker 2: She was covered also abused by straight men, yes, and
Speaker 2: a whole town of straight people.
Speaker 4: It's just like, I don't know, it's so hard.
Speaker 2: I can't believe they ripped this child out of this
Speaker 2: mother loving mother's hands. When people you should be so
Speaker 2: lucky to have great parents, you know, loving parents. It's
Speaker 2: all just so fucked up. I like, you know, one,
Speaker 2: it's hard not to spiral. I'm back in the spiraling.
Speaker 4: Phase of life. Yeah, it feels very spirally. It's not good. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's really it's tough.
Speaker 1: And like, I mean, yeah, like I was starting to
Speaker 1: spiral yesterday reading about how Trump, if he gets elected
Speaker 1: says he wants to get rid of birth like basically
Speaker 1: like the amendment that says if you're born in the US,
Speaker 1: you're a citizen, so that people stop, you know, so
Speaker 1: that immigrants stop coming and having babies here. And I
Speaker 1: was just like, no, and like I was reading all
Speaker 1: these Twitter comments. I mean, Twitter is so horrible. Now
Speaker 1: I gotta get off. I got I really got to
Speaker 1: get off.
Speaker 4: It's fucked up. But this episode we learned a lot.
Speaker 4: I mean we learned that.
Speaker 2: I Mean. The thing is, we bash religion a lot.
Speaker 2: And I know some of you do like church, but
Speaker 2: I'm still I think it's dumb. And that's you know,
Speaker 2: that's you're right.
Speaker 1: Other people can't and other people have said, like, you know,
Speaker 1: there are good parts of church.
Speaker 4: I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are.
Speaker 1: In this specific case of these fictional people. I think
Speaker 1: it's strange.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 4: I also do the grandma. Guess who loves Jesus? The grandma?
Speaker 3: Yea.
Speaker 2: The worst one of all is lying, not a sin.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I thought lying was one of the mortal sins.
Speaker 2: I don't understand it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, bearing, false witness, et cetera. I don't know what
Speaker 1: the different sins are.
Speaker 4: But I know, you know, the Seven Deadly Sins. Yeah,
Speaker 4: only because of the movie seven.
Speaker 1: Oh you're right, no, but that's different than the ten
Speaker 1: command yeah, which yeah, I meant, yeah, well, seven Deadly Sins.
Speaker 1: I literally just go through the movie seven and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's slow, there's lust.
Speaker 2: Or there's the America's Next Top Model episode photo shoot too.
Speaker 2: Oh they did that well, it was actually really really
Speaker 2: fucked up, and I bet production did this on purpose.
Speaker 4: But it was the Seven Deadly Sins.
Speaker 2: But they were posing in caskets that were lowered into
Speaker 2: the ground, so they were literally in like a graveyard
Speaker 2: deep six feet under in a casket, doing seven Deadly
Speaker 2: Sins photo shoot. But one of the girl's friends took
Speaker 2: their own life the day before, and she like found
Speaker 2: out crying hysterically her friend died or overdose or something,
Speaker 2: and then they made her film at the graveyard.
Speaker 4: Like sometimes that show is like fear factor.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I really feel like sometimes they're like, how can we
Speaker 1: get these models to absol have a nervous breakdown like
Speaker 1: doing something with heights or something gross or whatever that
Speaker 1: they don't cutting their hair. I mean, but yeah, in
Speaker 1: this specific case with these fictional people, I don't see
Speaker 1: why you would want to if you have a family
Speaker 1: dynamic that is outside of the church's teachings, why you
Speaker 1: would feel that that is super important to teach your
Speaker 1: kids when there are and this episode's older, but now
Speaker 1: today there are like multi faith or like there's LGBTQ
Speaker 1: friendly churches that like welcome that and like you know,
Speaker 1: probably have schools attached that would not would teach you
Speaker 1: faith based practices of loving your neighbor and this and that,
Speaker 1: but not tell you that it's a sin that your
Speaker 1: moms are together.
Speaker 2: You know, and also the parents of the boy you
Speaker 2: raise a shitty kid. I'm sorry he can't walk again,
Speaker 2: but like he sucked and he's done, and it's really
Speaker 2: got it in there.
Speaker 1: I really got that andet those scissors in there to
Speaker 1: go to sever the spinal cord.
Speaker 4: It's like your seven.
Speaker 2: And we do love the pastor that let everyone use
Speaker 2: his car. Never mind, we do love him.
Speaker 4: We love him. See, there's a good part to every religion.
Speaker 1: There's a good part for every grandma that's brainwashing their
Speaker 1: daughter and their granddaughter to thinking that her mom is
Speaker 1: a child molester. There's a pastor who lets everybody drive
Speaker 1: his car.
Speaker 4: We love that.
Speaker 2: And I think we learned in this episode in terms
Speaker 2: of parental alienation syndrome.
Speaker 4: Make sure you check your sources. Double take.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, this actually leads me perfectly into our what
Speaker 1: would Sister peg do?
Speaker 4: I wasn't even planned, which you.
Speaker 1: Guys know is our weekly segment where we direct you
Speaker 1: towards like an article, an organization, a doc, a blog post,
Speaker 1: something to help you give to give you more info.
Speaker 4: And what we talked about today.
Speaker 1: And after we recorded this episode, like a day ago,
Speaker 1: I was scrolling and I follow Pro Publica, who does
Speaker 1: great work that I believe is like community funded. They
Speaker 1: do really great in depth like articles about injustices happening
Speaker 1: all over the world. So they released an article called
Speaker 1: a court ordered siblings to a reunification camp with their
Speaker 1: estranged father. The children say it was abusive, a long title,
Speaker 1: but we're going to link to it in our stories.
Speaker 1: And basically it investigates a reunification camp called Turning Points
Speaker 1: for Families, which I believe is in Texas, and its
Speaker 1: alleged purpose is to repair the relationships between alienated parents,
Speaker 1: like children who have been alienated from their parents, and
Speaker 1: the camp specializes damage caused by parential alienation.
Speaker 4: They say, so as we know, it's a.
Speaker 1: Dubious psychological theory at best, not accepted in courts. And
Speaker 1: this even though it is like it's not, but it is.
Speaker 1: And this camp's methods are very controversial and mysterious. And
Speaker 1: this is why it's so disturbing that they're requiring a
Speaker 1: strange parents and their children to attend. In this specific article,
Speaker 1: they required the kids to attend after a couple of days.
Speaker 4: They did not want to do it.
Speaker 1: They really hated it. They got brought to the hospital
Speaker 1: during this short time. The mother was not permitted to
Speaker 1: see them during this time, and it just it feels
Speaker 1: really crazy. And I really want you guys to read
Speaker 1: this article because it elaborates a lot on what Lisa discovered,
Speaker 1: which was, oh, people are using this defense, but it's
Speaker 1: not medically accepted or accepted by any psychological institutions.
Speaker 4: So if you'd like to know, Mark, yeah, I am horrified.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's you can go on over to Pro
Speaker 1: Publica or as always, the link is in our show
Speaker 1: notes and in our instagram in the what would Sister
Speaker 1: peg Do highlight that we put up that's always there
Speaker 1: on our Instagram, but really really wild, and I'm really
Speaker 1: glad that Lisa kind of stumbled upon this being not good.
Speaker 2: Well, and this reminds me I haven't watched the Randall
Speaker 2: Emmett Hulu thing yet, but I'm just going off of
Speaker 2: like Laala at the vander Pumprey reunion, but it's this
Speaker 2: thing of like and I've heard bits and pieces at
Speaker 2: the dock where he wasn't at the birth, He like
Speaker 2: left her there and was like whatever, it's not like
Speaker 2: the kid cares till five, like so, and what she
Speaker 2: said where she was like, I could never get him
Speaker 2: to stay home, and then when she hit the fan,
Speaker 2: I couldn't get him to leave. And now he's fighting for,
Speaker 2: you know, custody of a kid he didn't even want
Speaker 2: to be around, and it's all like it's all just
Speaker 2: a game and control and it's not about the kids
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: The custody is about controlling her and making her feel
Speaker 1: like he owns her.
Speaker 4: Like honestly, is that is it? Like Randall does not
Speaker 4: give a shit about being with that kid?
Speaker 2: No, And we just I don't understand why we're supporting it,
Speaker 2: Like as a culture, it's just like, well, what about
Speaker 2: the dads?
Speaker 4: Fuck those dads. I don't know. Well, that's fucking that's patriarch.
Speaker 1: I mean, like just the fact that this is mostly
Speaker 1: used as a defense against dads. Are you saying that
Speaker 1: dads are never talking shit about the moms. Dads are
Speaker 1: never trying to tell their kids that their mom is crazy?
Speaker 2: Like, come on, it's just really dark and twisted, and
Speaker 2: it's like, you guys want moms to raise the kids,
Speaker 2: and then as soon as.
Speaker 4: This then it's not.
Speaker 2: It's like then if they stay behind Yeah, yeah, fuck,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna read this camp thing yeah and get mad.
Speaker 2: You know I'm not mad enough day to day? Okay,
Speaker 2: next week, please join us. We'll be doing that episode Privilege,
Speaker 2: season four, episode seventeen Hulu Peacock, which is my new
Speaker 2: lord and.
Speaker 4: Saviors, Peacock.
Speaker 2: I'm I pray to the altar of Peacock to give
Speaker 2: us uncensored reunions. I want to hear Andy Cohen say
Speaker 2: fuck all day long, like, oh yeah, we thought Peacock
Speaker 2: was gonna be Ciso, and then Peacock is now better
Speaker 2: than anything.
Speaker 4: Peacock is good.
Speaker 1: Wait, somebody talked about how HBO Max they dropped HBO and.
Speaker 4: Now they're just Max.
Speaker 1: And then somebody tweeted your move, Peacock. I thought that
Speaker 1: was so funny. Sorry, I can't credit the tweet. I
Speaker 1: just saw it like off the cuff.
Speaker 4: But thank you guys so much for listening. We love you,
Speaker 4: coy Ye Live. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 2: By That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, to our producer Kac O'Brien, and
Speaker 2: to our.
Speaker 1: Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cootner. And
Speaker 1: to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen
Speaker 1: Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers
Speaker 1: Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at
Speaker 1: Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Dud done