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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek with Carol Messer and Tim

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Speaker 2: Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 3: Kevin, you've gotten nothing to lose.

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Speaker 2: Won't to take you on the seacoon?

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Speaker 3: All right, everybody.

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Speaker 4: And some news out of the cruise industry today, Viking

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Speaker 4: Holdings filed confidentially for an initial public offering as the

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Speaker 4: travel industry continues to rebound from its pandemic era slump.

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Speaker 4: Viking's listing could raise five hundred million dollars or more.

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Speaker 4: Bloomberg News reporting that earlier Today, Our.

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Speaker 2: Next guest knows quite a bit about the industry. And

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Speaker 2: she actually didn't go to an Ivy League school, she

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Speaker 2: writes in her new book. In fact, she describes herself

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Speaker 2: in that book as quote floundering her twenties, seemingly without direction.

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Speaker 2: She did, though, go from selling cruises door to door

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Speaker 2: to becoming the CEO of the company. That company we're

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Speaker 2: talking about, his Celebrity Cruises, the subsidiary of Royal Caribbean Group.

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Speaker 2: All this kerrel in a brand new book. It's called

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Speaker 2: Making Waves. A Woman's Rise to the Top Using Smart's

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Speaker 2: heart and courage.

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Speaker 4: Lisa Lutuf Prolo is the author. She's also the vice

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Speaker 4: chair of External Affairs at Royal Caribbean and, as we said,

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Speaker 4: former CEO of Celebrity Cruises. She joins us from Plantation, Florida.

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Speaker 4: Lisa is so nice to have you here with us.

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Speaker 4: We feel like there's a million ways to start with you.

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Speaker 4: I hope you will indulge us a little bit because

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Speaker 4: I have reported on Royal Caribbean, I've reported on some

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Speaker 4: of your I am.

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Speaker 3: A sailor as well.

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Speaker 4: But it's been interesting to watch the cruise industry in

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Speaker 4: general pre pandemic, make it through the pandemic, which was remarkable,

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Speaker 4: and then come out and seemingly be stronger than ever.

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Speaker 4: Talk to us about the cruise industry, the trajectory that

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Speaker 4: we've seen over the last few years here of okay,

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Speaker 4: really tough times and then coming out of those tough

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Speaker 4: times and doing just okay better than okay. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know better than me because you're reporting

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Speaker 1: on us all the time and interviewing many of the

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Speaker 1: executives there, and I think it's pretty well determined and

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Speaker 1: known that, yeah, we're past those dark days and we're

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Speaker 1: full steam ahead.

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Speaker 3: Where the industry is doing great.

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Speaker 1: I heard what you just said about Viking, and that's

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Speaker 1: just another indication that it's a pretty robust industry right now.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think the industry is doing so well

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Speaker 2: right now? What is it about cruising that really continues

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Speaker 2: to attract people year after year.

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Speaker 1: I guess what I would say is that it's the

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Speaker 1: same as all travel. People want to experience the world,

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Speaker 1: they want to get out there. The industry is robust,

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Speaker 1: it's growing, it's exciting a lot of wonderful new ships

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Speaker 1: out there, and you know, the cruise industry is capitalizing

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Speaker 1: on people's desire to experience things and travel, and people

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Speaker 1: spent two years not being able to do that, and

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Speaker 1: now they're coming back in earnest pretty much in all

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Speaker 1: forms of travel.

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Speaker 4: For sure, Lisa. We got to ask because in the

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Speaker 4: beginning of your book, you say you never considered writing

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Speaker 4: a book is the first thing from your mind, never

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Speaker 4: thought you had an interesting enough story to tell. And yet, FYI,

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Speaker 4: any woman who becomes a CEO is a story. And

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Speaker 4: I can't wait for the day where it's not a story.

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Speaker 4: Because my whole trajectory in journalism, and it's several decades

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Speaker 4: like it has been a story, and so kudos to

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Speaker 4: you forgetting there. But what ultimately said, Okay, I'm going

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Speaker 4: to write this book.

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: If I if I could, Carol, I agree with you,

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Speaker 1: it will be wonderful when it's not a story anymore.

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Speaker 1: And what was interesting is that when I was first

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Speaker 1: appointed to the role back in December of twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 1: it was such a big story and I was overwhelmed

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Speaker 1: by it. And what I say in the book is

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Speaker 1: I was actually quite annoyed by by it because I

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Speaker 1: was getting a disproportionate amount of attention because I was

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Speaker 1: a woman, not because I had worked the years and

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Speaker 1: accomplished so much that actually got me into the position.

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Speaker 1: But what I decided, and one of the reasons that

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Speaker 1: I ended up writing the book, was that so.

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Speaker 3: Many people told me it was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: And I decided at a certain point in time, I

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Speaker 1: was going to lean into that and I was going

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Speaker 1: to use this disproportionate voice that I had because I

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Speaker 1: was a woman who made it to the CEO position

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Speaker 1: to tell my story. And it's really a story about

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Speaker 1: a young woman in my twenties who started at the

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Speaker 1: bottom and ended up at the top, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: really if I can do what you can do with story?

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Speaker 4: Well, I love that, right, And we do talk about

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Speaker 4: often you start at the bottom, and in media often

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Speaker 4: a lot of people do. Whether you start as a

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Speaker 4: production assistant, bringing somebody coffee, and you just work your

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Speaker 4: tail off and you work your way up. Having said that, Lisa, right,

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Speaker 4: it was really easy to work your way up.

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Speaker 2: Are you being facetious?

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Speaker 3: Kach? I am?

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Speaker 1: I am?

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Speaker 4: Take us back to the early days and getting into

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Speaker 4: the industry and what it was like to be a

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Speaker 4: woman in the industry forty years ago, any industry, I think,

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Speaker 4: I fail, like even forty years ago was kind of tough.

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Speaker 1: Sure sure, sure, well, you know, my career started in

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Speaker 1: sales and marketing, so for twenty one years I was

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Speaker 1: in a very gender neutral environment.

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Speaker 3: Didn't think a lot of it.

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Speaker 1: Never never thought about being a woman, or the fact

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Speaker 1: that it was maybe something that wasn't working to my advantage,

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Speaker 1: or there weren't a lot of us because in sales

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Speaker 1: and marketing there are quite a few women, even in

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Speaker 1: leadership roles. I realized there was a gender disparity in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five when I went into operations because

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Speaker 1: that's a very male dominated part of our business. And again,

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Speaker 1: our industry is old. You just said it yourself, Peril.

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Speaker 1: It was forty years ago. It's still very much predominantly

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Speaker 1: men in operations, and clearly in the CEO roles and

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Speaker 1: running these brands and companies, it's still predominantly men. I

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Speaker 1: never felt like being a woman impacted my ability to

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Speaker 1: grow or achieve what I achieved in my career. I

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Speaker 1: did find it somewhat of an issue in some of

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Speaker 1: the I had three roles in our company where I

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Speaker 1: was the first woman to ever do it, and I

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Speaker 1: guess I would use the word skepticism.

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Speaker 3: When I was put into those roles.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the men that were in those areas

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Speaker 1: of the company were skeptical as to why I was

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Speaker 1: there and if I belonged there, And I just had

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Speaker 1: to build my credibility one interaction at a time.

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Speaker 2: Lisa, do you think your story is still possible in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four? And the reason I ask is because

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Speaker 2: it's so rare to find somebody who's been at one

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Speaker 2: company for pretty much their entire career. And yes, you

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Speaker 2: did start working at a very young age, in your

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Speaker 2: family business, in the restaurant. But I'm wondering if you

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Speaker 2: still see this of somebody starting at one company and

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Speaker 2: then working their way completely to the top of that company,

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Speaker 2: because so often the only way to actually get a

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Speaker 2: promotion or get more money is to jump to another

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Speaker 2: company when you get another offer.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's you know, there's a lot of truth in that, Tim.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I know the answer to your question,

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Speaker 1: because for thirty nine years I was in one company,

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Speaker 1: and in our company, I see a lot of what

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Speaker 1: happened with me. I see a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: work their way up for decades. Our company is very

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Speaker 1: committed to hiring from within, developing people, helping.

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Speaker 3: Them grow, moving them around so they learn more.

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Speaker 1: So I was in a wonderful situation and it continues

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Speaker 1: to be that way.

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Speaker 3: However, if I think about.

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Speaker 1: The new generations and I think about how people are

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Speaker 1: right now, I'm not sure that that's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of one of our issues is

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Speaker 1: people so many people being remote and it's difficult to

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Speaker 1: be noticed. One of the things I talk about in

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Speaker 1: the book is conducting your own PR campaign so that

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Speaker 1: you do achieve what you want to achieve and make

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Speaker 1: it to the top, and it's hard to do that

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Speaker 1: you're not there invisible and interacting every day.

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Speaker 4: Hey, one day, I want to go back to when

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Speaker 4: you talked about building your own credibility and that you

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Speaker 4: said it was kind of okay that maybe people had

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Speaker 4: some questions about your ability to do some of these

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Speaker 4: leadership roles. Having said that, because you said people had

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Speaker 4: some hesitation about my leadership and that was fair, Why

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Speaker 4: is it fair, because you know, no offense. If you

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Speaker 4: were a guy, they would be like, I got this. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't have all the.

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Speaker 3: Experience.

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Speaker 4: I haven't done it all, maybe exactly, but I got this,

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Speaker 4: don't worry about it, and it would be okay. Is

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Speaker 4: it just men women in your view and your experience

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Speaker 4: and what you've seen of us just kind of wired differently,

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Speaker 4: or the world thinking that we're wired differently.

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Speaker 3: Good question. You know I didn't think about it that way, Carol.

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Speaker 1: You know when I went into it and people I

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Speaker 1: so here's how I looked at it. I looked at

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Speaker 1: it as Okay, there really have not been any women

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Speaker 1: that have been your boss.

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Speaker 3: There are very few women.

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Speaker 1: There were three percent women on our bridges when I started,

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Speaker 1: and there were thirty three percent when I stepped down

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Speaker 1: last April, and maybe I cut them too much black

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Speaker 1: in that regard. I was never a captain, I was

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Speaker 1: never a chief engineer. I was never a hotel director,

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Speaker 1: never drove a ship, fixed fixed an engine. So I'm like,

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Speaker 1: all right, maybe they think I need subject matter expertise,

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Speaker 1: and yes, I'm a woman and there aren't.

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Speaker 3: There are none of us around.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking left and right, and maybe I, you know,

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Speaker 1: cut them more slack than they might have deserved.

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Speaker 3: I didn't think about it that way.

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Speaker 1: But what I decided to do when I met with

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Speaker 1: that skepticism is just to you know, to turn it around.

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Speaker 1: I come at everything from a very positive angle, and

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Speaker 1: that's that's how I looked at that. I said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't have subject matter expertise, but I guarantee you

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of other reasons why I'm here, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to show you that in a very short

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Speaker 1: period of time.

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Speaker 4: All Right, Lisa, sit tight, We're going to come back

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Speaker 4: continue the conversation. We've got more time with Lisa LUTEV.

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Speaker 2: Parlow.

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Speaker 4: She is the author of a new book, Making Waves

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Speaker 4: of Women's rise to the Top using Smart's heart and courage,

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Speaker 4: And just.

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Speaker 2: A little tease, We're going to start our next segment

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Speaker 2: with the dark days of March twenty twenty, especially for

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Speaker 2: the cruise industry, because that's where the book opens.

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Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, you go back there and

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Speaker 4: just that moment of the unexpected of Yet we're going

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Speaker 4: to shut down the global economy. Folks, We're doing it

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Speaker 4: all right. Everybody want to get back to our guests

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Speaker 4: with us is Lisa lutev Perlow. She's the author of

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Speaker 4: a new book, Making Waves of Women's Rise to the

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Speaker 4: Top using Smart's Heart and courage. She's also Vice chair

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Speaker 4: of External Affairs at Royal Caribbean. She's the former CEO

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Speaker 4: of Celebrity Cruises, which is of course a brand within

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Speaker 4: the Royal Caribbean Group. And she's still with us from Plantation, Florida.

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Speaker 4: So so good to have you here. We want to

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Speaker 4: talk att bit about COVID.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you found yourself at the helm of

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Speaker 2: the company, Lisa, at a time that was incredibly challenging,

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Speaker 2: to say the least. So take us back to March eighth,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, which is where your book opens.

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Speaker 1: What happened then, Well, March eighth of twenty twenty was

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Speaker 1: actually a really exciting day for me.

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Speaker 3: I boarded Celebrity Edge.

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Speaker 1: We were we were celebrating International Women's Day, which is

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Speaker 1: March eighth actually, and we were celebrating a history making,

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Speaker 1: barrier breaking event where one hundred percent of our bridge

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Speaker 1: on that ship was manned by women, and Captain Kate

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Speaker 1: was at the helm. So it was a glorious event.

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Speaker 1: We had worked really hard to improve our gender balance

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Speaker 1: on our bridges. We were able to do this. Our

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Speaker 1: guests were excited, our team were excited. I left the

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Speaker 1: ship on Wednesday, flew home, went back into the office

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Speaker 1: on Thursday, left for the weekend on Friday, and then,

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Speaker 1: as you know very well, no, we had a global

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Speaker 1: chef down that weekend and ceased operations four fifteen months.

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Speaker 1: So what I talk about in the first chapter of

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Speaker 1: the book Sailing through the Storm is I went from

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Speaker 1: the highest of highs in my career to the lowest

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Speaker 1: of lows within seventy two hours.

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Speaker 3: And I will never forget that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, yes, I think about for us like kind

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Speaker 4: of going through the financial crisis and reporting on it.

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Speaker 3: Were there, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: We just felt like the world probably felt this way.

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Speaker 4: But the dark days of oh my god, is this

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Speaker 4: system going to come undone? How did you think about

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Speaker 4: like you were feeling, like you said, from a high

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Speaker 4: to a low, but you're like, I'm responsible for this

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Speaker 4: brand and the people who are connected with it. We

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Speaker 4: got to figure out our way forward. And you obviously

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Speaker 4: have a corporate parent who was.

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Speaker 3: Involved in it too.

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Speaker 4: But just take us through, like initially, how dark it

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Speaker 4: was and what you were thinking, Well, I.

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Speaker 1: Was thinking what all of us were thinking, is is

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Speaker 1: this horrible thing that's impacted the world ever going to end?

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Speaker 1: Are we ever going to see the light at the

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Speaker 1: end of this tunnel? There were so many terrible things

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Speaker 1: happening all at once, including our business shutting down. That

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Speaker 1: was not the least of it, but it was just

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Speaker 1: one of a global nightmare that we were all living through.

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Speaker 1: And yes, our company played a very active role. I

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Speaker 1: was only one of the executives dealing with it, but

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Speaker 1: I did have to think about as a leader, how

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Speaker 1: am I going to pivot and what are the things

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Speaker 1: that I'm going to do that are going to get

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Speaker 1: the twenty thousand people that work under my area of

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Speaker 1: responsibility through this?

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Speaker 3: How am I going to give them hope? You know?

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Speaker 1: How am I going to give them confidence that this

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Speaker 1: is going to end and we're going to get back

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Speaker 1: into business and our crew members spread all over the

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Speaker 1: world are going to be able to get back to

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Speaker 1: work and someday I didn't even know that. So I

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Speaker 1: learned more as a leader during COVID than probably the

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Speaker 1: other of thirty seven or thirty eight years of my

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Speaker 1: career in the company.

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Speaker 2: What are some of those things you could kind of

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Speaker 2: impart on other people now that you learned in such

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Speaker 2: a short time.

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Speaker 1: I think the most important thing that all of us

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Speaker 1: as leaders need to understand is when we need to

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Speaker 1: pivot and what we need to be doing and the

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Speaker 1: muscle that we need to be building at any given time.

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Speaker 1: I was a CEO of a brand within a corporate

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Speaker 1: s and P five hundred company. Shareholder value, returning shareholder value,

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Speaker 1: transforming the financial performance of the brand was at the

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Speaker 1: forefront of everything I did, how I led, what I

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Speaker 1: thought about every single day. And when you're out of business,

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Speaker 1: you have to think about different things and you have

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Speaker 1: to downplay those because there is no business to generate

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Speaker 1: but also you have to be able to switch yourself

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Speaker 1: as a leader from a hard driving, results focus driven

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Speaker 1: visionary strategic think or two. Okay, let me give people

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Speaker 1: what they need right now, which is empathy, which is support,

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Speaker 1: which is compassion, and again which is hope. And so

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Speaker 1: I really think that some leaders have a really difficult

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Speaker 1: time flexing their style and being different on any given

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Speaker 1: day relative to what the circumstances present. And I learned

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Speaker 1: that during COVID, and I learned that as soon as

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Speaker 1: I was able to do that, the way the team

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Speaker 1: was feeling and the way our employees all over the

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Speaker 1: world was feeling immediately changed because they that's what they

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Speaker 1: were looking to me for. I was that beacon for them,

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Speaker 1: and I needed to remember that every single day when

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Speaker 1: I woke up.

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Speaker 4: Well, we so appreciate that perspective. And we're going to

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Speaker 4: take you back to the high point just before the pandemic,

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Speaker 4: and you talked about this ship and the role of

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Speaker 4: women and Captain Kate, our Charlie Pellett is a big cruiser,

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Speaker 4: including celebrity cruises, and he wanted to know and we're

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Speaker 4: going to ask you do you follow Captain Kate on

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Speaker 4: Instagram and what has she done for your brand and

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Speaker 4: being able to put out a ship. She was what

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Speaker 4: first time that an American woman was named captain of

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Speaker 4: a mega cruise ship, so it was a big deal.

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Speaker 4: What has that done for the brand?

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Speaker 3: Oh, Carol?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, she was the first and still only,

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Speaker 1: I might add, American woman to ever be at the

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Speaker 1: helm of a mega cruise ship. She was the captain

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Speaker 1: on Celebrity Edge, which, by the way, was the first

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Speaker 1: ship to sail out of a US port post pandemic

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Speaker 1: January twenty sixth, twenty twenty one. Captain Kate was at

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Speaker 1: the helm of Celebrity Edge and we were the first

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Speaker 1: brand to.

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Speaker 3: Go back into service.

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Speaker 1: She was the first woman to take a ship out

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Speaker 1: of the shipyard and send a there France. I would

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Speaker 1: follow Captain Kate everywhere and I follow her on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: And when you think about the things that you're proudest

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Speaker 1: of in your career, appointing her and giving her that

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Speaker 1: opportunity as captain is one of the highlights for me

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Speaker 1: and for her.

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Speaker 3: And she is beloved.

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Speaker 1: She's beloved by her crew, her guests, everybody that encounters her.

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Speaker 1: She's an unbelievable navigator. She's extraordinary in every single way.

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Speaker 1: And she's been a great advocate for celebrity, and she's

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Speaker 1: been a great advocate for women mariners and recruiting them

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Speaker 1: into our.

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Speaker 3: Company here here.

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Speaker 4: I love it. I'm a I'm a sailor on the net.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell? Can you tell that Carol spends a

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Speaker 2: good portion of the summer on the high seas? You really?

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Speaker 3: She really loved that, Carol that You're welcome.

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Speaker 4: You're welcome, all right, So we want to do kind

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Speaker 4: of a little bit of a rapid fire round with

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Speaker 4: you if we can. We've got about a minute and

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Speaker 4: a half left, just quick answers.

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Speaker 3: Work from home?

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Speaker 4: Yes or no? Or how you feel about it? You

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Speaker 4: can be honest, be.

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Speaker 3: Honest, mixed and both mixed and both.

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Speaker 2: How about that mixed in both?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, both work from home? Don't work from home?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 3: And I feel mixedls and cons. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So talk a little bit about your favorite place to

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Speaker 2: cruise quickly?

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Speaker 3: Alaska, wow? Really?

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Speaker 1: Or the Galapagos anywhere where nature plays a huge role.

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Speaker 4: All right, leader, you and my doesn't have you? Can

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Speaker 4: you can excuse your current leaders because we don't want

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Speaker 4: to put that on you.

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Speaker 1: No, No, no leader Ruth Vader Ginsburg because real quickly,

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what she did for everybody herself.

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Speaker 3: Women, Yeah, everybody, get to hear you.

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Speaker 4: Next act, next act, next, oh wait, your next port.

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Speaker 4: Let's stay with the sailing metaphor. And just got about

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Speaker 4: twenty five seconds.

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Speaker 1: Okay, next chapter. You're gonna have to reinterview me at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of May. And I can tell you.

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Speaker 2: All right, I like it. See look at that tease,

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Speaker 2: look at that. Oh add it to the calendar.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm not done yet, folks.

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Speaker 4: All right, Lisa, soa appreciate this. Have a great weekend.

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Speaker 4: Lisa lutav Pro. She is the author of a new memoir,

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Speaker 4: Making Waves, a woman's Rise to the Top, using Smart's

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Speaker 4: heart encourage. I love it, love it, love it, love it.

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Speaker 2: She's cool, very cool. Check in with her May of

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Speaker 2: the calendar.

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Speaker 4: There's gonna be more mhm.