Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast.
Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by b Dratty. This morning,
Speaker 1: I was out at Wingfoot shooting for some US Open
Speaker 1: footage and then checking out the golf course as well
Speaker 1: as some in the area. Went on a tilling hast
Speaker 1: binge with golf architect Jaeger Kovich. We uh we also
Speaker 1: recorded a pod so that'll be out later. But it
Speaker 1: was a chilli morning. It was a it was a
Speaker 1: layering morning, pure fall morning. I was wearing my b
Speaker 1: Dratty quarter zip. It was it was absolutely perfect. Quickly
Speaker 1: it warmed up, I was, uh, you know, then shed
Speaker 1: it and was wearing a b Dratty cotton shirt. So
Speaker 1: I I highly recommend the quarter zip. It is a
Speaker 1: you know, functional piece that you can wear so many
Speaker 1: different ways, whether it's to the office, uh, on the
Speaker 1: golf course or you know, out and about. So check
Speaker 1: it out at bdradty dot com and yeah, look for
Speaker 1: future wigfoot content coming up. That's actually where Billy Draddy's
Speaker 1: a member, so great spot there. I'm really excited for
Speaker 1: the next year's US Open. But in this pot Garrett
Speaker 1: Morrison and I are back. We're continuing our conversation from
Speaker 1: the last pot about our recent trip through the Carolinas.
Speaker 1: So in this podcast we cover Roaring Gap, Aiken, which
Speaker 1: is where we had the Thoroughbread so Garrett hadn't been
Speaker 1: and we talk about that for a little while, and
Speaker 1: then we also talk about Paul Mettow, which is a
Speaker 1: Alister mackenzie design. You know, it's been worked on by
Speaker 1: Tom Doak and Gil Hants in recent years. In Aiken.
Speaker 1: It's a private club, but it also allows uh guest play,
Speaker 1: public play. Really the week of the Masters, highly recommend
Speaker 1: checking it out. Is phenomenal golf course if you can,
Speaker 1: if you can swing the green fee, it is a
Speaker 1: great place to experience a day at So without further ado,
Speaker 1: here's Garrett and myself talking about our trip. I miss
Speaker 1: a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find
Speaker 1: my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when
Speaker 1: I find my.
Speaker 2: Ball in a brid egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida
Speaker 2: egg Frida egg Frida egg bride egg Lie, I'm about
Speaker 2: ready to run off the gump, all right. So after
Speaker 2: we saw Old Town Club, we had the opportunity before
Speaker 2: heading over to Atlanta and Aiken. Later on for the
Speaker 2: Thoroughbred Our event, we saw in the mountains of North
Speaker 2: Carolina Roaring Gap Club, which is a nineteen twenty five
Speaker 2: Donald Ross design that was restored around the same time,
Speaker 2: in fact, exactly overlapping with the restoration of Old Town Club,
Speaker 2: and the restoration chairman at Roaring Gap was again Dunlop White,
Speaker 2: the golf chairman at Old Town Club who oversaw the
Speaker 2: process of restoring Old Town as well. So Roaring Gap
Speaker 2: is a really cool place, you know, It's kind of
Speaker 2: this getaway in the mountains. It's got an interesting history
Speaker 2: with the Pinehurst Resort and and a pretty unique golf course.
Speaker 2: So what were some of your thoughts about about Roaring Gaps.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's always cool play golf literally on a mountain. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know the I think I've been thinking about it
Speaker 1: a lot. I it's just like a very fun golf
Speaker 1: course to play. I think you you think about the place,
Speaker 1: it's it gets like sixty seven hundred rounds a year,
Speaker 1: seven thousand, barely anybody plays it, and you think the
Speaker 1: memberships probably shades a little bit older, and it's like
Speaker 1: just like that's it fits what it is so well.
Speaker 1: Because it's just it's not going to kill you, but
Speaker 1: it's just like fun. Yeah, I mean, and you play up,
Speaker 1: and you play down and around, you play right up
Speaker 1: to the edge of the mountain and the land is
Speaker 1: gets really, really, really good from I would say a
Speaker 1: whole five five or six.
Speaker 2: The one that five is the one that goes that
Speaker 2: goes down five five, which and then six is the volcano.
Speaker 1: I'd say five through twelve is where it is like
Speaker 1: kind of the peak. It's interesting, though, the ninth were flipped,
Speaker 1: and that's what I've been kind of fixated on in
Speaker 1: my head, and I I tend to keep coming back
Speaker 1: to the I wish that the night the routing would
Speaker 1: go back to the other way.
Speaker 2: Interesting why is that?
Speaker 1: I think it just tells a better story. I understand
Speaker 1: why they flipped it. They flipped it because the seventh,
Speaker 1: the current seventeenth plays right out to the cliff and
Speaker 1: then eighteenth of par three that comes back to the clubhouse,
Speaker 1: and you know, that's your kind of fairy tale ending
Speaker 1: to your day at Roaring Gap. But it dismisses the
Speaker 1: fact that the best land for golf. I think the
Speaker 1: round is more cohesive the other way because you start
Speaker 1: and the really good land and it gives you the
Speaker 1: taste of what Roaring Gap is. Ten and eleven's a
Speaker 1: bunker less par five that's just got these tremendous rolling
Speaker 1: features that kind of like they cascade in from the
Speaker 1: right and then the left, and the green sits up there,
Speaker 1: and so you kind of you get a taste of it,
Speaker 1: and they take you away and they bring you out,
Speaker 1: and they bring you out to that cliff, you know,
Speaker 1: and then they bring you back into the great Land
Speaker 1: to finish, and I just think it's I just I've
Speaker 1: thought about this is all I've been thinking about about
Speaker 1: Roaring Gap is flipping the nines back, and I'm obsessed
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know, the counter argument to that would
Speaker 2: be what you mentioned earlier that the round kind of
Speaker 2: culminates out on this cliff that you that you go
Speaker 2: through the woods, and then finally in those last few holes,
Speaker 2: the landscape kind of opens up and then boom, you
Speaker 2: reach the climax right out on the very top of
Speaker 2: the mountain with that view over the valley. And then
Speaker 2: there's a long part three that takes you back to
Speaker 2: the clubhouse and there's a there's a certain dramatic appeal
Speaker 2: to that. But I guess what you're saying is that
Speaker 2: people may be mistaking what the actual best holes at
Speaker 2: Roaring Gap are. Yeah, because seventeen is not the best hole.
Speaker 2: I would say, I.
Speaker 1: Would actually say seventeen is the weakest hole at Roaring Gap.
Speaker 2: Do you think, So why is that?
Speaker 1: I just I think it's pretty it's just hit it here,
Speaker 1: hit it there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean if you if you stay along the
Speaker 2: right side, along where the bunkers are, you you have
Speaker 2: there's a semblance of strategy right yeah there in the
Speaker 2: in the fairway cants a little bit to the left.
Speaker 2: When you're down at the bottom of that, it's not
Speaker 2: an easy shot, so there's a little bit of strategic
Speaker 2: unity there. But the land is pretty flat.
Speaker 1: Flastically and the greens very you know, because of the
Speaker 1: I mean so many of the greens there are dictated
Speaker 1: by the slope of the land because you're playing on
Speaker 1: this mountain. So like a lot of times you'll look
Speaker 1: at a hole and you're like, oh, that I'm hitting
Speaker 1: into green that's front back to front, and and really
Speaker 1: it's front to back because of the topography, like and
Speaker 1: you know, you're either playing up or down the mountain,
Speaker 1: and that is that is the flattest, least you know,
Speaker 1: to me least interesting land on the golf course. And
Speaker 1: it's it's green's not you know, the green's good. It's
Speaker 1: and this is like not an indictment, it's it, you know.
Speaker 1: And you could never say that's the worst of the
Speaker 1: week because of the view, but like in terms of
Speaker 1: just pure golf. And and it makes me think a
Speaker 1: lot about Cypress, right, you know, where there's like layers
Speaker 1: to the routing right where you see the ocean right
Speaker 1: off the first hole right you and then they take
Speaker 1: you away from it. And and that's Roaring GAP's best
Speaker 1: golf is in that section of the land that that
Speaker 1: would be the start and the finish of the round,
Speaker 1: you know. And then Cypress, you see the ocean, you
Speaker 1: come back to the ocean to finish, right. The best
Speaker 1: the Roaring Gap, well, the mountain is what people believe
Speaker 1: to be the ocean. Their real ocean for golf is
Speaker 1: the rolling hills that are that are situated on holes
Speaker 1: five through twelve.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's really well put and I think
Speaker 2: I agree with that. That's that's what you really come for.
Speaker 2: That's what's exciting at Roaring Gap is the land that
Speaker 2: starts when you get to basically the top of the
Speaker 2: mountain right holds one, two, three, four, play uphill and
Speaker 2: at the highest point you see that building and I
Speaker 2: know I should know what that building is. Yeah, that's right, okay,
Speaker 2: And it's a cool it's a cool building, you know.
Speaker 2: And then you get right up there basically to the
Speaker 2: lawn in front of this building. That's the fourth green,
Speaker 2: and then you walk over to the fifth te and
Speaker 2: it's a spectacular short par four that plays downhill, dramatic
Speaker 2: contours in the fairway that dictate the strategy of the hole.
Speaker 2: The next hole after that is the volcano par three
Speaker 2: that I think a lot of people probably like taking
Speaker 2: pictures of that falls off really severely on the right
Speaker 2: side of the putting surface. And the seven is a
Speaker 2: par five that again goes over incredible land. These are great,
Speaker 2: great golf holes, and that basically continues until the that
Speaker 2: that land. The terrain, the dramatic terrain in that section
Speaker 2: of the golf course takes you all the way through
Speaker 2: hole twelve and then and then there are some really
Speaker 2: cool golf holes after that too. But you know, especially
Speaker 2: on number eleven. The part five that you're describing earlier
Speaker 2: that goes over those huge contours is just a wonderful
Speaker 2: yeah design.
Speaker 1: Twelve twelve so neat too with that, you know.
Speaker 2: I short part four kind of goes over the shoulder
Speaker 2: of the hill and you can see the green from
Speaker 2: some parts of the hole and other other parts of
Speaker 2: the hole you can't.
Speaker 1: I carry around a per Simon driver and I don't
Speaker 1: use it all the time. And about four holes and
Speaker 1: uh and do uh roaring gap, you just realize, like
Speaker 1: it's a way more fun golf course to play with
Speaker 1: the with the persim and driver, because that's a golf
Speaker 1: course that modern equipment has really really take it a toll.
Speaker 1: But like if you put if you put it back
Speaker 1: to the per Simon, like all of a sudden, all
Speaker 1: the all of those features, Like the twelfth hole has
Speaker 1: this huge cascading ridge that runs down the right side
Speaker 1: of the fairway and we both ended up on it.
Speaker 1: You do not want to be on it. It leaves
Speaker 1: it's a very short part four, like three point fifty.
Speaker 1: You have a wedge and you're just hitting from a
Speaker 1: lie that's you know, ball way above your feet. You know,
Speaker 1: it's very difficult to hit from.
Speaker 2: And you have to cut it from there too to
Speaker 2: get anywhere near the green. Yeah, your ball's way above
Speaker 2: your feet if you're a right hander, and you've got
Speaker 2: to cut it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, if I was playing my regular driver,
Speaker 1: I just hit it right over that thing. You know,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been even in the ballpark. But with
Speaker 1: the persimon, I hit it right into it. I tried
Speaker 1: to hit it over and didn't get there. So it's
Speaker 1: that that golf course is so fun. And it's another
Speaker 1: one where when the ball's like alive. We played it
Speaker 1: at the end of the season and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of moisture in the air, so it's a little soft.
Speaker 1: But like when that ball is running, it's just got
Speaker 1: to be so much fun to play.
Speaker 2: Yeah that your your ball can travel hundreds of feet
Speaker 2: even in in one role, and that's part of the
Speaker 2: adventure of the course. And yeah, if you if you're
Speaker 2: just hitting over those landforms, it becomes less fun, you know.
Speaker 2: Since I since I'm a little bit shorter, the course
Speaker 2: still works. It works for me with with modern equipment,
Speaker 2: I think, but in any case, for the for the
Speaker 2: eleventh hole, for instance, that par five. You know, the
Speaker 2: big feature of that hole is the a ridge or
Speaker 2: I guess uh you know this, uh, this diagonal slope
Speaker 2: that cuts about one hundred yards in front of the
Speaker 2: green and then the land goes down into the goal
Speaker 2: into a goalie and then way up to the green.
Speaker 2: And the question on that hole is where do you
Speaker 2: want your second shot to end up? Do you want
Speaker 2: to be on top of the ridge with kind of
Speaker 2: a weird lie but you're on the same level the green,
Speaker 2: or do you want to go ahead and hit it
Speaker 2: past that and then have a blind shot up to
Speaker 2: the green That that would be quite difficult as well.
Speaker 2: I think if you were playing modern equipment, you'd probably
Speaker 2: get your ball around the green and two shots every time.
Speaker 2: But rolling yourself back a little bit reintroduces some of
Speaker 2: the questions that the hole is supposed to ask, and
Speaker 2: it is. You know, it's a short course by modern standards,
Speaker 2: it's sixty four hundred yards, but man, if you're if
Speaker 2: you're hitting the ball off the tee not much more
Speaker 2: than two hundred or two hundred and twenty five yards,
Speaker 2: that course becomes really adventurous and difficult because of because
Speaker 2: of how it just sits on this mountain and doesn't
Speaker 2: hold back in terms of taking you over the biggest landforms.
Speaker 1: What I would you say, what would you say? You know,
Speaker 1: what would do you like to see different there?
Speaker 2: Well, we talked about this a little bit during the round.
Speaker 2: It would be it would be cool to see the
Speaker 2: turf in the fairways especially come to its full potential.
Speaker 2: And we saw it toward the end of the season.
Speaker 2: We saw it in October. That course closes down at
Speaker 2: the end of October, right basically three weeks was it
Speaker 2: the last week? So even earlier the course is essentially
Speaker 2: shut down at this point, its season is over. And
Speaker 2: I'm sure if we saw it earlier in the summer,
Speaker 2: we would have seen different realities in terms of the turf.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was it was soggy and the ball
Speaker 2: wasn't running like clearly it normally would. And you know,
Speaker 2: I do think that there probably could be some stuff
Speaker 2: done so that the turf is a little bit more
Speaker 2: lively through the season. Another thing that I noticed as
Speaker 2: I was playing the course is that maybe some of
Speaker 2: the mowing lines aren't aren't quite they could be, you know,
Speaker 2: their whole number seven comes to mind, specifically where on
Speaker 2: the right side, there's a mowing line that kind of
Speaker 2: cuts into some area where that you might want to
Speaker 2: play with strategically getting your ball out there and seeing
Speaker 2: it roll. I think that's the case on a few holes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some trees too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's on the on the front nine
Speaker 2: or the current front nine especially, would you say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd say that. And then you know on the back,
Speaker 1: like there's one between seventeen and eighteen the tree there's
Speaker 1: a pine tree that a fair way that could be
Speaker 1: extended over on the left that would make the hole
Speaker 1: much better. But you know, for the most part, it's
Speaker 1: it's really good, you know, And I don't think I
Speaker 1: don't think that course it for what it is. It's
Speaker 1: really good, right.
Speaker 2: And what do you think it is? What do you
Speaker 2: think it's it's trying to be.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like a lax place to go
Speaker 1: hang out that everybody that's a member there is like
Speaker 1: a second or third club, you know, and to a
Speaker 1: certain extent, like golf is just a part of you know,
Speaker 1: being up in the mountains, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I agree, you know, it's I think Donald
Speaker 2: Ross delivered exactly what the intention of that course was.
Speaker 2: Was it's a pleasant getaway from busier places down on
Speaker 2: flatter land, you know. It was. It was designed as
Speaker 2: an adjunct to the Pinehurst resort, and it sort of
Speaker 2: functions that way. It's it's although it's on a mountain,
Speaker 2: it's not too taxing. It's just it's just really pleasing
Speaker 2: and a fun, fun place to play golf. But I
Speaker 2: wouldn't call it, and I don't know if this is
Speaker 2: even a good term. I wouldn't call it a major course, right,
Speaker 2: not in terms of major championship But it's not a
Speaker 2: major work in Donald Ross's body of work. It's uh,
Speaker 2: you know, Oakland Hills and Pinehurst number two, those are
Speaker 2: those are his big, huge statements, roaring gap and I
Speaker 2: made this comparison in a discussion we had afterwards. But
Speaker 2: if you're going to compare Donald Ross's courses to Bruce
Speaker 2: Springsteen albums, I don't know why you'd want to do that.
Speaker 2: It just jumped to mind. But Pinehurst number two, uh,
Speaker 2: and and his uh, the current Donald Ross major championship
Speaker 2: courses are kind of his born to run or born
Speaker 2: in the USA, those big statements and big loud, you
Speaker 2: know albums that that have a lot of instruments and
Speaker 2: h and spectacular songs. Roaring Gap is more like Bruce
Speaker 2: Springsteen's album Nebraska, which is a cute, acoustic, stripped down
Speaker 2: beautiful and you know, it's a beautiful, lovely album that
Speaker 2: shows a different side of Springsteen, but it's not a
Speaker 2: major statement and it doesn't intend to be. I think
Speaker 2: that you can sort of see Roaring Gap the same way.
Speaker 2: It shows a different dimension of Ross's talent as an architect.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. It's it's it's like it's charming,
Speaker 1: you know, yes, that's the way. It's just a it's
Speaker 1: a very enjoyable place to go play golf, right, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm glad we went there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, then uh then you got to go
Speaker 1: see Achin. Now for a quick word from our sponsor.
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Speaker 2: Oh man, this was quite a trip. Actually, it felt
Speaker 2: like it happened pretty quickly, but we covered a lot
Speaker 2: of grounds.
Speaker 1: I'm so tired at the end of it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, we did quite a bit of driving.
Speaker 2: But yeah. We we got over to Aiken and had
Speaker 2: our event there, played three rounds at Aiken within a
Speaker 2: day and a half and that was a completely delightful experience.
Speaker 2: Achin Golf Club. You've written about it on the website,
Speaker 2: but it's just a wonderful local golf course that just
Speaker 2: shows what you can do if you have an ownership
Speaker 2: that that commits themselves entirely to making the golf course
Speaker 2: as good as possible and where they know what they're doing,
Speaker 2: you know they and they just turned that golf course
Speaker 2: into a design that is better than it has any
Speaker 2: business being so really fun to play there. It was
Speaker 2: I think the event worked out really well. But yeah,
Speaker 2: great great place. And then in the same town you
Speaker 2: have Palmeto Golf Club on the on the on the
Speaker 2: private side, and it makes Aiken one of the best
Speaker 2: small towns for golf that I've ever seen maybe the best.
Speaker 1: I actually think it is the best. I don't think
Speaker 1: there's a there's a town, even a city, even cities
Speaker 1: that have a better private public combo. I was actually
Speaker 1: I was a little nervous before Aiken because I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, I had this like self
Speaker 1: doubt creep in where I was just like, maybe, like,
Speaker 1: maybe this golf course isn't as good as I think
Speaker 1: this golf courses because like just I feel like not
Speaker 1: that many people had been to it, you know, like
Speaker 1: there wasn't like a I don't know, like Tom Dok
Speaker 1: hasn't been there, you know, and there's like a little
Speaker 1: doubt that and but then like you know, everybody got
Speaker 1: there and played it and everybody was like blown away.
Speaker 1: It was like quite relieving, and it was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I did think like I wasn't losing my mind or something.
Speaker 2: And totally understand. I've been that way about golf courses before,
Speaker 2: where nobody else is talking about them, you think it's
Speaker 2: really great, and you're like, oh, have I just gone insane?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, it was like the fact that all these
Speaker 1: people are going I'm like, I hope it's not as
Speaker 1: good as I think it is, you know, but like
Speaker 1: I was re refferred because you know the commentary afterwards.
Speaker 1: But you know, there isn't a with a public golf course,
Speaker 1: like there aren't many public golf courses that can map like.
Speaker 1: There are plenty of private courses that match Palmetto, but
Speaker 1: I can't think of any town that's got a public
Speaker 1: that even comes in the close in the stratosphere of
Speaker 1: of akin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty stunning, how good it is. So what
Speaker 2: were you hearing from people after they play it? Played it?
Speaker 2: What were what were some of the comments that you heard.
Speaker 1: I'm curious, you know, people just it was just, you know,
Speaker 1: how wildly unique it is, how incredible, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: the greens are just incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, every green's different, and and there are green
Speaker 2: concepts out there, just ideas for what you could do
Speaker 2: with the total entity of the green that I just
Speaker 2: haven't seen before. Yeah, and I just literally haven't seen
Speaker 2: someone design a green like that before. That's that's what's
Speaker 2: out there at this golf course.
Speaker 1: Well, it's because the guy never designed, agreed before he designs.
Speaker 1: Usually that that situation doesn't work out like that. It's
Speaker 1: just it's such a cool place. The the other thing
Speaker 1: is the way it's connected to the town makes it
Speaker 1: a little bit more special too. Where you can it's
Speaker 1: a two minute walk from downtown Aiken, which is a
Speaker 1: nice town. It's a it's a very nice town. You know,
Speaker 1: I haven't been there a couple of times now, Like
Speaker 1: I Aiken's a really nice town. And you you just
Speaker 1: can walk from downtown and then there's this golf course
Speaker 1: that's weaved in through the neighborhood. You cross roads and
Speaker 1: you go out and back and it's just and and
Speaker 1: the best is, like it takes so little time to
Speaker 1: play the golf course. It's just not it's like the
Speaker 1: complete opposite of every American golf course, every American public
Speaker 1: golf course in a way, not everyone, but like it's
Speaker 1: so different, wildly different.
Speaker 2: And it's a great model of how to how to
Speaker 2: weave a golf course, as you say, into a residential community, right,
Speaker 2: because often that doesn't work out very well. Often houses
Speaker 2: and golf courses don't go very well together. But even
Speaker 2: though the corridors out there are fairly isolated from each
Speaker 2: other and there aren't these kind of open expanses where
Speaker 2: a bunch of golf holes are all together on the land.
Speaker 2: You're kind of going through the neighborhood out and back.
Speaker 2: In fact that the ninth hole doesn't go back to
Speaker 2: the golf to the clubhouse, right. The course wanders out
Speaker 2: and then eventually comes back, and it's through neighborhoods the
Speaker 2: whole time. But it doesn't feel like you're being encroached upon.
Speaker 2: The houses don't feel like they're on top of the course.
Speaker 2: And maybe that's just because the corridors are wide enough,
Speaker 2: and maybe it's because they're set back from the golf
Speaker 2: course well enough and concealed well enough. But the golf
Speaker 2: courses is part of that residential community and it doesn't
Speaker 2: feel like well, I think one compromises the other.
Speaker 1: I think the big difference is that the golf course
Speaker 1: was there and then the homes came.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's I think that's how it always works better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you get to use the good land for
Speaker 2: golf first, and then you can fill fill in the
Speaker 2: residential componently.
Speaker 1: And then like the early housing development courses were kind
Speaker 1: of the same way, Like Pasa Tempo Sedgefield was an
Speaker 1: early residential course where the golf course was was selected
Speaker 1: and then the houses were built next to it, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's like that that's the the the appropriate way
Speaker 1: to do residential golf.
Speaker 2: And it's not a prefabricated community, right, it's an organically
Speaker 2: built community where you know, there wasn't like a master
Speaker 2: plan or anything like that. It just grew up there.
Speaker 2: And so it feels all completely natural that this golf
Speaker 2: course and and this neighborhood that it's in coexist and
Speaker 2: and and supplement each other. It's it's really nice. And
Speaker 2: they have that putting course just outside the clubhouse. The
Speaker 2: clubhouse itself is cool. There's a great there's a great whole.
Speaker 2: Putting course is awesome. I mean it's all grass putting
Speaker 2: course with a bunker in it and and like cool
Speaker 2: putting holes, like well designed putting holes. It's just so simple.
Speaker 2: It doesn't take up that much room. I was looking
Speaker 2: at this and thinking, why in the heck do we
Speaker 2: not see this other places? But you just don't. And
Speaker 2: maybe there's this the extra care that has to be
Speaker 2: put into designing and taking care of bullshit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the extra care. Jim Nicknaer maintains that golf course
Speaker 1: with a crew of four guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. There's very little. We were very efficient.
Speaker 1: We were planning to start the event at eight and
Speaker 1: he's like, hey, can we push it to a thirty.
Speaker 1: I mean it's a big task doing a shotgun at
Speaker 1: eight here with a crew of four us. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know that's understandable. Yeah, it just works in
Speaker 2: every way, from from the golf course to the quote
Speaker 2: unquote amenities around it. It's just all in its proper
Speaker 2: place and what it should be. And uh and then
Speaker 2: there's just really right. Yeah. Yeah, well we can get
Speaker 2: the short the back to back short part fours on
Speaker 2: the on the back nine I think are stunning.
Speaker 1: The first hole is awesome, it's a great hole.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the third could you here describe the first hole?
Speaker 2: So let's let's talk about that one because I still
Speaker 2: don't really know how to play it, and that's part
Speaker 2: of the magical.
Speaker 1: I think I figured it out finally. I've now played
Speaker 1: the course like six times. I think I always used to.
Speaker 1: I used to hit drive or so that there's a
Speaker 1: it's like three hundred and forty yards and uh, if
Speaker 1: the green is up on a ridge, it's a double green.
Speaker 1: It shares the seventeenth green and eighteen plays back down
Speaker 1: the other ways a par three just to give you
Speaker 1: an idea of like, you know, length, and it's it's
Speaker 1: so you you've got this kind of ridge line that
Speaker 1: cuts through the center of the fairway. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you want to hit it onto the ridge, you have
Speaker 1: to hit like a one hundred and seventy yards one
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty yards and that leaves you like one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty yards shot to an elevated green on
Speaker 1: the first.
Speaker 2: Ault, and it kicks away on all sides, right, And
Speaker 2: especially when you're looking at it, it's super intimidating because
Speaker 2: all you see is this crown right. Yes, it appears
Speaker 2: to reject balls on all sides.
Speaker 1: It's got like a big knob.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: McNair used a lot of like Maxwell muffins out there.
Speaker 2: He did. Yeah, I know, some of the greens were
Speaker 2: very Maxwellish.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was wondering if that was just recency bias and
Speaker 2: because I had been prime to look for that stuff.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's what I'm talking about, is those little
Speaker 2: quirky contours in the greens that just make them so distinctive.
Speaker 2: Because most people don't build with that kind of detail.
Speaker 2: They do a big tier or something large instead of
Speaker 2: just one small.
Speaker 1: I like kind of comparing them to like land mind. Right,
Speaker 1: It's like these little knobs are just so effective because
Speaker 1: they anything around them just become you become really worried,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're putting over them, if you're trying
Speaker 1: to hit an approach shot, like you all of a
Speaker 1: sudden have to do things you don't want to do
Speaker 1: because there's a land mine right there right, you know,
Speaker 1: And if if you were, like if you were, if
Speaker 1: you knew there's a land mine in your town, like
Speaker 1: you'd have to make concessions and do things differently than
Speaker 1: the way you'd want to do them, right. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like what Mackenzie says is about, like, you know,
Speaker 1: the bunker should be right where you want to hit it,
Speaker 1: like right where everybody wants to like, and that's the
Speaker 1: beauty of just putting a knob right in the center
Speaker 1: of a green, because that's where every good player wants
Speaker 1: to hit the ball, you know, Like, yeah, none of
Speaker 1: them are really aiming at pins, like you're kind of
Speaker 1: just like, you know, I'm going to aim over here.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like it, but but then one so
Speaker 1: you got that knob in the center of the green. Sorry,
Speaker 1: got off topic there.
Speaker 2: I started to thinking, you got the knob in the
Speaker 2: center of the green, and then yeah, in the big
Speaker 2: hollow before the green, and the green sits on the ridge.
Speaker 1: So you kind of have to decide, like in the
Speaker 1: you have to decide whether you want to play up
Speaker 1: on the ridge, and then there's like almost a secondary
Speaker 1: ridge before you get down to the depth of the hollow.
Speaker 1: If you hit driver, you're gonna be in the depth
Speaker 1: of the hollow, yes, and you're gonna have like this
Speaker 1: weird forty five yard web shot, like up up a
Speaker 1: hill to green you can't see with a huge knob
Speaker 1: in it.
Speaker 2: Like, just just to give an idea, that's where I
Speaker 2: was every time I played the hole. Yeah, every single
Speaker 2: time I was down, and every time I was like,
Speaker 2: why am I down here? Why did I play the
Speaker 2: hole this way? And I don't think I successfully executed
Speaker 2: that web shot once.
Speaker 1: I just I started hitting three iron and it's just
Speaker 1: it gets me to like a spot where it's one
Speaker 1: hundred yard.
Speaker 2: Shot, do you go out right? Because out right on
Speaker 2: that hole is eighteen eighteenth whole corridor. It kicks it
Speaker 2: down a little bit because the landslopes right right to
Speaker 2: low left.
Speaker 1: You got to hit it right because like you can't
Speaker 1: hit it left there's there's like out of bounds or
Speaker 1: a hazard running down the left side.
Speaker 2: Also, so yeah, I mean Sean Martin's thicket.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got like eighty yards of space to hit
Speaker 1: it into.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so exactly.
Speaker 1: But it's just a cool first hole. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: so many great holes out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could go through hole by hole and talk
Speaker 2: about their unique characteristics. The bunkering out there is really cool.
Speaker 2: There's this, there's these striking contrasts, and again maybe this
Speaker 2: is a factor of just not having been trained to
Speaker 2: do things in a conforming or common way, but the
Speaker 2: bunkering is so odd and cool where you have these little,
Speaker 2: these clusters of little pot bunkers, right of little circular
Speaker 2: bunkers contrasted with these big wild kind of fescue I
Speaker 2: don't know if it's actually fescue, but you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, like long grass fringed bunkers that that you know,
Speaker 2: function as kind of waste areas. In fact, they play
Speaker 2: everything as waste areas out there. But there's these there's
Speaker 2: these big little contrasts, and you know, formally shaped bunkers
Speaker 2: versus naturally or wildly shaped bunkers all over the course,
Speaker 2: and it just makes it really striking. I've just never
Speaker 2: really seen people, never seen a course execute bunker shaping
Speaker 2: and in quite that way.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It was very distinctive.
Speaker 1: You know, the other thing about it is it's it's
Speaker 1: golf done really well on a smaller scale. Like the
Speaker 1: land has some good scale like good size scale movement
Speaker 1: to it, but the features aren't huge. And I mean
Speaker 1: he's fifty eight hundred yards and I think it it's
Speaker 1: like a perfect example.
Speaker 2: It's just.
Speaker 1: The amount of time. It takes so little time to play.
Speaker 1: I mean, I played, we played a sixsome in the
Speaker 1: event in sub four hours six and everybody.
Speaker 2: Puts you an alternate shot ten later.
Speaker 1: Yeah, alternate shot tens in like three point fifteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, you know, and.
Speaker 1: And the I think some people might raise their pace
Speaker 1: of play with me, but you know that might be
Speaker 1: one factor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but nobody wants to be the slow guy in
Speaker 2: Andy's group right at this point.
Speaker 1: But the it's just it just shows that like golf
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be massive, Like it doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be mammoth dunes with its ninety for everybody to be
Speaker 1: able to get around and play it in a quick,
Speaker 1: timely manner. You know, it doesn't have to be one
Speaker 1: hundred yard wide fair aways. It it's much more. And
Speaker 1: I think this is where with Tom Doak, what he's
Speaker 1: doing with the course, the third course at Sand Valley's
Speaker 1: trying to go this direction. But this is an example
Speaker 1: of it in America, right, Like the golf course is
Speaker 1: a par seventy just because of pure necessity of marketing,
Speaker 1: Like the reality is just like par sixty seven.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, because the par fives are four hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty yards. Oh yeah, you know, a couple of them
Speaker 2: play pretty long, but but yeah, there aren't holes that
Speaker 2: really stretch the boundaries of on the high side of
Speaker 2: their par.
Speaker 1: So, you know, like this is this is what he's
Speaker 1: It is a very sharp contrast from Old Town in
Speaker 1: that sense. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's it's almost by necessity that the course
Speaker 2: laterally is on a smaller scale.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: The fairways are narrower, the corridors are narrower, just because
Speaker 2: it's you know, that's the footprint of the golf course.
Speaker 2: That's what they cleared out in terms of the trees
Speaker 2: and now there are houses on the sides of a
Speaker 2: lot of the holes, and so the footprint is pretty small.
Speaker 2: And so you know, aside from the first hole that
Speaker 2: we're describing, you know, it's funny enough we chose the
Speaker 2: one hole with like a really ultra wide fairway. But
Speaker 2: aside from the first hole, the holes are able to
Speaker 2: do a lot of interesting things other than giving you
Speaker 2: that classic array of width based options. Right, it's not
Speaker 2: a course that really emphasizes lateral strategy that much. Instead,
Speaker 2: there's these kind of interesting diagonal lines going on, and
Speaker 2: there are lots of cool things that the hole do
Speaker 2: holes do aside from the classic illustration of a big
Speaker 2: wide fairway that you can choose your line down, Yeah, a.
Speaker 1: Lot of it's because of the topography and where you're
Speaker 1: picking whether you want to be high or low. Right,
Speaker 1: do I want to be up on top of this
Speaker 1: ridge or do I want to get it down? Push
Speaker 1: it down? And there's the risk like when you're pushing
Speaker 1: with driver is like it's not that wide, so you
Speaker 1: have to really hit a good drive right Like it's
Speaker 1: it's you don't feel like you can just whale away
Speaker 1: at it all the time.
Speaker 2: There yeah, Yeah, very few holes are a green light
Speaker 2: just to just to smash it.
Speaker 1: And he does it with trees sometimes too, Like the
Speaker 1: six hole would be a good example of that, where
Speaker 1: the green half the green sits behind a tree and
Speaker 1: you know, he's he's you have to play right there,
Speaker 1: you know, but there's a bunker there, and there's a boundary,
Speaker 1: there's a road, you know, in order to get your
Speaker 1: angle into that left pin, and there's just there's a
Speaker 1: lot of neat stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a golf course that people can learn from,
Speaker 2: for sure, because it violates a lot of the established
Speaker 2: norms about what makes good architecture. And it just shows
Speaker 2: you the many different ways that that simple ideas, manageable
Speaker 2: ideas at a public golf course can really create a
Speaker 2: lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just different than what if somebody hired, you know,
Speaker 1: like nobody would be asking for that golf course right now,
Speaker 1: and everybody almost should be yeah, right.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, every every town needs one. Now, I don't
Speaker 2: know if it works necessarily in every town, but it's
Speaker 2: it's certainly working there. And yeah, that's the overwhelming feeling
Speaker 2: you come away with. And this is what I heard
Speaker 2: from a bunch of other people at the event, is
Speaker 2: that Why aren't there more courses that do this? It
Speaker 2: seems so simple, it seems so manageable, and yet Aiken
Speaker 2: stands as is almost completely unique, at least in my
Speaker 2: experience of seeing golf courses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2: All right, So Palmetto, well, I'll just touch on it
Speaker 2: on it briefly because you didn't play that round played
Speaker 2: that morning. You've played it before though. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, Palmetto is fantastic. What more can be said?
Speaker 2: It's it's also an Aken It's just a hop, skipping
Speaker 2: and jump away from Aiken Golf Club, and it's obviously
Speaker 2: a private course, but a very very relaxed atmosphere. It's
Speaker 2: one of those places that has a local membership supplemented
Speaker 2: by a national membership, and there's a really cool, casual
Speaker 2: golf focus vibe at the club. You know, the head
Speaker 2: pro was incredibly friendly and talk to our group for
Speaker 2: a long time before and after the round. Just a
Speaker 2: really welcoming atmosphere, unpretentious, and then what you've got in
Speaker 2: the golf course is just one of the best sets
Speaker 2: of greens I think I've ever seen. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: hard to describe how good those greens are, how good
Speaker 2: the surrounds are, how different they are from each other.
Speaker 2: You know, greens I find to be very hard to
Speaker 2: describe in words and very hard to photograph. You just
Speaker 2: kind of have to walk them and see them. But
Speaker 2: the best thing that can be said about those greens
Speaker 2: a Palmetto is that when there are no bunkers around them.
Speaker 2: I was going to say even when there are, but
Speaker 2: maybe even especially when there aren't any bunkers around the green,
Speaker 2: it's completely fascinating and so challenging. The contours are are
Speaker 2: just really kind of expertly shaped and placed, and so
Speaker 2: it's a tremendous amount of fun to play around those greens.
Speaker 2: And each green ends up speaking to you right back
Speaker 2: to the tee, where the difficulties that you'll encounter once
Speaker 2: you get around the green will factor in when you're
Speaker 2: hitting your t shot on additional rounds there. Every green
Speaker 2: does that every green is different from the last, and
Speaker 2: they and they Palmetto does not. That design does not
Speaker 2: use bunkers to create the primary interest in in a
Speaker 2: hole or in a green site. It's just contour and
Speaker 2: short grass and and they're so so cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the you know what you hit on when with
Speaker 1: the greens talking back, like if you turn around and look,
Speaker 1: it's it's Eric Lang did a video there with Doddie
Speaker 1: Pepper and David norm Oil.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I saw this and David norm Oil is like one
Speaker 1: of the most brilliant people on golf and it was
Speaker 1: funny because he was walking the golf course backwards and
Speaker 1: ever since I saw him and I had played it
Speaker 1: and when I when I when I saw what he
Speaker 1: was doing, I thought to myself, Man, I really wish
Speaker 1: I could do that, because it it's such a neat
Speaker 1: golf course and the greens are totally it. Like I mean,
Speaker 1: I'll never forget like playing the second hole and getting
Speaker 1: to that green house like holy cow, like I like,
Speaker 1: that's when I was like, my god, I am in
Speaker 1: for something today.
Speaker 2: That's a very challenging green that one that one kicks
Speaker 2: away on all sides just about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it runs away like you can't even see
Speaker 1: it because it's elevated up and it runs. I mean it.
Speaker 1: That place is I think the I think the the
Speaker 1: big thing there is the the atmosphere adds so much
Speaker 1: to it because it's this very very nice place with
Speaker 1: with lots of history, and I think this might be
Speaker 1: something with just the town of Acn what make it's
Speaker 1: such an inviting place. And you know, you go to
Speaker 1: so many clubs and they're so the opposite way of
Speaker 1: this and akens the same way as it. And maybe
Speaker 1: that's what makes the town and why it's got the
Speaker 1: best golf of maybe any town in America, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of public and private, is that it's just
Speaker 1: they're they're inviting places like there are places that you
Speaker 1: want to spend time at, you know, and you're comfortable
Speaker 1: spending time at.
Speaker 2: And and the lack of pretension I think allows everybody
Speaker 2: to focus on the golf. There's there's not this there's
Speaker 2: not this desire at these places to to show off
Speaker 2: or to uh, you know, present themselves as something other
Speaker 2: than a really great golf course. And so you don't
Speaker 2: see the huge clubhouse. Now that there's nothing wrong with
Speaker 2: a huge clubhouse, but that that's not the choice that
Speaker 2: Paul Metal Golf Club has made, you know. It's it's
Speaker 2: a it's a simple, down to earth place where the
Speaker 2: focus is just entirely on great golf and uh and
Speaker 2: so yeah, it's it's just the course doesn't doesn't really
Speaker 2: show off either, Right, it's not. It's not hitting you
Speaker 2: over the head with its greatness. It's just got a
Speaker 2: lot of subtle features, especially in the ground tour, ground contour,
Speaker 2: ground tour. I've coined a new term. That's gonna that
Speaker 2: should be the replacement for the Friday Egg. Actually that
Speaker 2: should be the new name of the company. But uh,
Speaker 2: it's yeah, from the from the ground tour comes all comes,
Speaker 2: all the interest, and and it's not what people notice first.
Speaker 2: It's not what shows up well in photos or you know,
Speaker 2: things that scream. They're not features that scream at the
Speaker 2: top of their lungs that they're great. But once you
Speaker 2: start playing on them, once you see what the ball
Speaker 2: does on them, you can see the fun that you
Speaker 2: can have at the place. And that's that's Palmetto. It's
Speaker 2: just one great green after another, one great set of
Speaker 2: contours after another.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's it's cool. I mean, the you can
Speaker 1: definitely see. I don't know if that range was always there.
Speaker 1: I have a suspicion that it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe the holes, yeah played a little differently. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I suspected the same thing. Yeah, because the sixteenth hole
Speaker 2: the par three is the only one that's you know,
Speaker 2: a little bit odd.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And but fifteen, that par four is amazing.
Speaker 2: Really cool. A bunkerless green. Yeah, very short part four
Speaker 2: strange looking fair away from the tee. That just kind
Speaker 2: of is is, you know, you hit your t shot
Speaker 2: right into the crest of this hill and then it's
Speaker 2: a wedge into this green and if you're if you're
Speaker 2: too close to it and you're trying to hit a
Speaker 2: lob wedge pitch of off of short grass to you know, well,
Speaker 2: basically you're just going to end up forty feet past
Speaker 2: the pin if you don't get it exactly right. Great
Speaker 2: golf hole. Yeah, And seventeen and eighteen are cool too.
Speaker 2: They're they're kind of wedged into this fairly small piece
Speaker 2: of land. But you know, eighteen has kind of a
Speaker 2: similar effect where it's a short part four, you have
Speaker 2: a you have a short second shot, but there's a
Speaker 2: lot of challenge in the way that the green behaves.
Speaker 1: You don't want to head driver in this.
Speaker 2: For sure.
Speaker 1: There are these what did you think of those mounds,
Speaker 1: like those big mounds around the green around so many
Speaker 1: of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very uk Ish, yes, yeah, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was they were. So it's one of those courses
Speaker 2: where you don't have a lot of apparent earth moving
Speaker 2: in the fairways at all. Would you would you say
Speaker 2: the same, Oh, yeah, that the fairways are super naturalistic
Speaker 2: in the way that they sit on the land. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't know what was actually moved or what wasn't,
Speaker 2: but I suspect that basically nothing was. Then around the
Speaker 2: greens you have some pretty obviously man made features, you do.
Speaker 2: You have you have mounds around the green, but you know,
Speaker 2: somehow or another, they never appear to be uninteresting or
Speaker 2: banal because they're not uniform, right, It's not like there
Speaker 2: are these little dollops that that said, at even spacing
Speaker 2: around the green, there are uneven shapes that look man
Speaker 2: made but that are are really ir regular and unpredictable,
Speaker 2: and you know, create a lot of that fun that
Speaker 2: I'm talking about when you get around the greens, because
Speaker 2: you know, depending on where you are, you could have
Speaker 2: completely different shots. You know, if your balls, like you
Speaker 2: have two balls that are six feet away from each other,
Speaker 2: it could be a completely different shot because of the
Speaker 2: intensive micro conjuring around the greens.
Speaker 1: So Palmetto's open augusta week to everybody. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: like four hundred bucks.
Speaker 2: Would you would you were there? Would were you there?
Speaker 1: Would you pay four hundred bucks to play Palmetto?
Speaker 2: That's a hard question to ask. I think four hundred
Speaker 2: dollars means something different to me than it means to
Speaker 2: you know, everybody. Would I pay four hundred dollars to
Speaker 2: play Palmetto?
Speaker 1: Say four hundred dollars? You would eat? You'd pay four
Speaker 1: hundred dollars to go play Kio Island or Whistling Streets
Speaker 1: or you know.
Speaker 2: That's what I was thinking, if I'm going to pay
Speaker 2: that much money to play spy Glass Hill, for instance.
Speaker 2: So that's exactly what spy Glass Hill is.
Speaker 1: And this is the way you have to I think
Speaker 1: you have to textualize the four hundred dollars right. Compare
Speaker 1: it to other four hundred dollars courses.
Speaker 2: Does it stack up absolutely against the courses that we
Speaker 2: just mentioned, I mean, for sure, I uh, you know,
Speaker 2: I think it's a really wonderful golf experience. You know.
Speaker 2: I like spy Glass Hill a lot. I lived next
Speaker 2: to spy Glass Hill for five years, and that's a
Speaker 2: that's a spectacular golf course, and I think that it's
Speaker 2: you know, uh, maybe doesn't doesn't do everything that I
Speaker 2: want a golf course to do necessarily, but I can
Speaker 2: see why people would see see it as worth it
Speaker 2: and would walk away from that golf course being really impressed.
Speaker 2: But yeah, if you're going to pay four hundred dollars
Speaker 2: to play that course, you'll get a completely different kind
Speaker 2: of experience at Palmetto, but one that I think is
Speaker 2: just as valuable and uh and and memorable. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, what it's it's hard to say what what
Speaker 2: the value of a dollar is to everybody, but yeah,
Speaker 2: if they're going to open up their course and give
Speaker 2: people an opportunity to play at once and see it
Speaker 2: for that amount of money, I think it's certainly worth it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, that's kind of the way I've equated it.
Speaker 1: And especially with what other courses charge August a week,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, paying it's.
Speaker 2: Got to be a pretty decent deal. Yeah, compared to what's.
Speaker 1: Some places they're paying more at Stage Valley, I think,
Speaker 1: and I think a gust of country clubs in that
Speaker 1: four hundred dollars range, and I mean a can charge
Speaker 1: is one hundred Bucks. That's the best deal by far
Speaker 1: around during a gust a week.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's kind of like when they're there's a
Speaker 2: US open at Pebble Beach and they do this even
Speaker 2: a little bit during pro am week. But Pacific Grove
Speaker 2: doubles their green fee for out of town specific Grove
Speaker 2: is charging right, absolutely, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 2: I think it's a smart move. But yeah, Pacific Grove
Speaker 2: starts charging one hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty
Speaker 2: dollars because they know that a lot of people who
Speaker 2: are coming to town have some money, they have some
Speaker 2: disposable income. They're out to spend a little bit of
Speaker 2: money and have themselves a fun vacation. And that's certainly
Speaker 2: a Master's week, you know, when that population of people
Speaker 2: descends on Georgia and is out there to see the Masters.
Speaker 2: I think that four hundred dollars probably fits very well
Speaker 2: into plans that people have financially for that particular weekend,
Speaker 2: don't you think?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I definitely agree.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. So so yeah, what a what a great
Speaker 2: trip that was? That was a really really good one.
Speaker 1: That it was a good one. It's uh, in all
Speaker 1: the ones to we missed. Still, you know that's the trouble.
Speaker 2: There are a ton more North Carolina is uh. North Carolina,
Speaker 2: South Carolina.
Speaker 1: Are unbelievable golf states.
Speaker 2: Amazing golf states. Yeah, so we we have any We
Speaker 2: talked about the lot of the classic courses. Just think
Speaker 2: of the array of modern courses that are in those
Speaker 2: states as well, the different experiences that you could have
Speaker 2: public and private. Yeah, it's it's a mecca.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so uh, we'll talk soon. Excited you're going up
Speaker 1: to Bandon Dunes. I'm excited to hear about the Sheep Ranch.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that should be an interesting trip. I don't
Speaker 2: know what the weather is going to kind of be
Speaker 2: a crapshoot and we'll see if the drone wants to
Speaker 2: behave I I don't know if it's going to get there,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I'm going to see Banda. I'm going to
Speaker 2: be there for a couple of days, only playing a
Speaker 2: couple of rounds of golf, but definitely going to see
Speaker 2: Sheep Ranch and a lot of the other things I'm
Speaker 2: going to be doing is just kind of walking around
Speaker 2: the resort. Because when I visited Bandon last year with
Speaker 2: my dad, we played thirty six holes basically every day,
Speaker 2: and it was a really great experience, unforgettable. I'd highly
Speaker 2: recommend that everybody do it. But I found when I
Speaker 2: was playing those courses that all I really wanted to
Speaker 2: do was just go out and take a hike around them,
Speaker 2: just go and look at them, kind of wander freely
Speaker 2: around the paths along the golf courses and just look
Speaker 2: at them, because when you play them, it seems like
Speaker 2: it goes by so quickly. So that's a good amount
Speaker 2: of what I'm going to be doing. I'm just going
Speaker 2: to be walking around the property like I'm on a
Speaker 2: vision quest or something. It should be so it should
Speaker 2: be pretty fun and we'll probably get some decent photos
Speaker 2: stories out of it. We'll see what happens.
Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome. We'll talk to you soon. M