1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,330 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Frey. 3 00:00:14,710 --> 00:00:18,430 Speaker 1: And I'm Tracy V. Wilson. This is one of those, wow, 4 00:00:18,450 --> 00:00:20,169 Speaker 1: that got on your list in a weird way moments, 5 00:00:20,310 --> 00:00:23,770 Speaker 1: but it's been on my list, our topic for today, 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: since Andor, season one, episode seven, which is known as Announcement. 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,150 Speaker 1: Because if you recall it... I won't give it away 8 00:00:32,190 --> 00:00:34,650 Speaker 1: in case anybody hasn't seen it. I know we're past 9 00:00:34,670 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: the statute of limitations on spoilers, but if anybody hasn't 10 00:00:37,940 --> 00:00:41,140 Speaker 1: seen Andor, I don't want to spoil anything because it's 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,020 Speaker 1: so good. But I will say there is a thing 12 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: that happens where a person gets a criminal pronouncement after 13 00:00:48,620 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: kind of a sham trial. And as part of finishing 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:58,050 Speaker 1: that up and filing the paperwork, They used this prop 15 00:00:58,110 --> 00:01:00,510 Speaker 1: that anyone that worked in retail in the 80s or 16 00:01:00,550 --> 00:01:04,650 Speaker 1: early 90s immediately recognized. We called it a knuckle buster 17 00:01:04,810 --> 00:01:08,090 Speaker 1: because it was a little tray style thing that you 18 00:01:08,110 --> 00:01:10,430 Speaker 1: put someone's credit card in and then you put a 19 00:01:10,490 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: carbon thing over it and then you went with this slider. Yep. 20 00:01:16,060 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: And they just were not designed ergonomically for anyone's hands, 21 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,620 Speaker 1: large or small. Always drag your knuckles across it and 22 00:01:22,660 --> 00:01:25,690 Speaker 1: cause damage. Yeah. I did not work in retail during 23 00:01:25,730 --> 00:01:30,330 Speaker 1: these years, but I did go out shopping with my 24 00:01:30,370 --> 00:01:34,780 Speaker 1: mom or eventually myself. And so I saw these machines 25 00:01:34,819 --> 00:01:37,900 Speaker 1: being used. And when I saw it in Andor, I 26 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,339 Speaker 1: was like, what? I know what that is. Yeah. So, yeah, 27 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,300 Speaker 1: that got me thinking, of course, of old school credit 28 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,180 Speaker 1: card machines. And I was like, I wonder what year 29 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,310 Speaker 1: those got faced out. And then I was like, I mean, 30 00:01:51,330 --> 00:01:53,530 Speaker 1: I was alive, but, you know, I wasn't marking the time. 31 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: And then I was like, oh, credit cards are a 32 00:01:56,020 --> 00:01:58,190 Speaker 1: good topic. And so today we're going to talk about 33 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,110 Speaker 1: the history of credit cards. Credit cards are so completely 34 00:02:01,210 --> 00:02:04,030 Speaker 1: integral to the way that we bank and shop today. 35 00:02:04,990 --> 00:02:08,109 Speaker 1: But they weren't always. And as we'll see in some 36 00:02:08,130 --> 00:02:10,390 Speaker 1: of the things we talk about for a while, that 37 00:02:10,430 --> 00:02:13,370 Speaker 1: wasn't perceived as a good thing to need a credit 38 00:02:13,490 --> 00:02:16,050 Speaker 1: card or to need a credit account. And there is 39 00:02:16,090 --> 00:02:18,270 Speaker 1: a shift that happens that gets mentioned in the press. 40 00:02:19,150 --> 00:02:21,460 Speaker 1: But also a lot of the technologies involved in their 41 00:02:21,500 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: daily use that we know them today were invented in 42 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: the last 65 years. So I was wondering, did we 43 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: get from, you know, written down notes and accounts of 44 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: basically like, hey, this person owes money for a purchase today. 45 00:02:35,940 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: that they need to make but they don't have the 46 00:02:37,460 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: cash for to where we're at now with like tap 47 00:02:40,020 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: and go spending or in some places just walk out. 48 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,620 Speaker 1: It's quite a journey. I want to say up front 49 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: that we are not going to get into credit reports 50 00:02:48,260 --> 00:02:51,279 Speaker 1: at all in this episode. Odds are real good you're 51 00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:53,380 Speaker 1: going to get that in the near future though. I'm 52 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,260 Speaker 1: not going to promise but I think there's enough there 53 00:02:56,300 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: for an episode and they certainly merit their own episode. 54 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: So today we're just going to talk about credit cards. 55 00:03:01,460 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: Before the modern era, there were, of course, people buying 56 00:03:04,860 --> 00:03:08,970 Speaker 1: things on credit. Records of people doing that go all 57 00:03:09,010 --> 00:03:12,490 Speaker 1: the way back to ancient Mesopotamia. There are clay tablets 58 00:03:12,650 --> 00:03:18,030 Speaker 1: documenting things being acquired on credit terms. The concept of 59 00:03:18,090 --> 00:03:22,070 Speaker 1: a written IOU is also hundreds of years old, and 60 00:03:22,110 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: the first example in writing of the letters I, O, 61 00:03:25,850 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: and U used as notation for acknowledging a debt That 62 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,250 Speaker 1: appeared in 1795, which is longer ago than I would 63 00:03:35,290 --> 00:03:38,970 Speaker 1: think for that little abbreviation. That was in a legal 64 00:03:39,150 --> 00:03:44,010 Speaker 1: record written by Isaac Espenas, who was a lawyer. Yeah, 65 00:03:44,050 --> 00:03:48,420 Speaker 1: he was Irish. He was a lawyer and a legal recorder. 66 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: So somebody owed somebody money, and he wrote it down 67 00:03:51,500 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: that way, and people have been doing it ever since. 68 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: During the time when the U.S. was expanding westward, people 69 00:03:58,020 --> 00:04:00,970 Speaker 1: often needed supplies to get set up in their homes 70 00:04:01,380 --> 00:04:03,670 Speaker 1: well before they had any kind of method to pay 71 00:04:03,690 --> 00:04:06,930 Speaker 1: for them. And this is when metal cards started to 72 00:04:06,970 --> 00:04:10,790 Speaker 1: be used by merchants. They would issue them to buyers. 73 00:04:11,430 --> 00:04:14,310 Speaker 1: But these were more akin almost to receipts than a 74 00:04:14,370 --> 00:04:16,589 Speaker 1: means of continued purchase power. It wasn't like you could 75 00:04:16,650 --> 00:04:19,350 Speaker 1: bring that metal card anywhere. We're going to talk a 76 00:04:19,390 --> 00:04:23,710 Speaker 1: little bit more about those in just a moment. In 1888, 77 00:04:23,710 --> 00:04:28,010 Speaker 1: a journalist named Edward Bellamy wrote a science fiction novel 78 00:04:28,110 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: called Looking Backward 2000 to 1887. This is about a 79 00:04:33,310 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: man who falls asleep in 1887 and then wakes up 80 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: in a utopian future in the year 2000. This is 81 00:04:41,220 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: just so funny to me now that we are here 82 00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:49,030 Speaker 1: in the year 2026. The book contains the first known 83 00:04:49,350 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: written use of the term credit card. the narrator, Julian West, 84 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: asks how wealth is distributed in this socialist future that 85 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: he wakes up in. There's no capitalism. And a character 86 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,100 Speaker 1: named Dr. Leity replies, quote, on the simplest possible plan. 87 00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:12,260 Speaker 1: Leity then goes on to describe a credit card system. Quote, 88 00:05:12,460 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: a credit corresponding to his share of the annual product 89 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,820 Speaker 1: of the nation is given to every citizen of on 90 00:05:19,860 --> 00:05:22,780 Speaker 1: the public books at the beginning of each year, and 91 00:05:22,820 --> 00:05:25,860 Speaker 1: a credit card issued him with which he procures at 92 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,540 Speaker 1: the public storehouses found in every community, whatever he desires, 93 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,940 Speaker 1: whenever he desires it. This arrangement, you will see, totally 94 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,020 Speaker 1: obviates the necessity for business transactions of any sort between 95 00:05:38,100 --> 00:05:41,500 Speaker 1: individuals and consumers. Perhaps you would like to see what 96 00:05:41,550 --> 00:05:44,110 Speaker 1: our credit cards are like. And then in the book, 97 00:05:44,170 --> 00:05:47,770 Speaker 1: Leidy shows West a pasteboard card and points out that it, quote, 98 00:05:48,310 --> 00:05:51,270 Speaker 1: is issued for a certain number of dollars. We have 99 00:05:51,339 --> 00:05:54,700 Speaker 1: kept the old word, but not the substance. The term, 100 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,740 Speaker 1: as we use it, answers to no real thing, but 101 00:05:57,779 --> 00:06:01,380 Speaker 1: merely serves as an algebraical symbol for comparing the values 102 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,550 Speaker 1: of products with one another. For this purpose, they are 103 00:06:04,630 --> 00:06:07,510 Speaker 1: all priced in dollars and cents, just as in your day. 104 00:06:08,210 --> 00:06:10,349 Speaker 1: The value of what I picture on this card is 105 00:06:10,430 --> 00:06:13,030 Speaker 1: checked off by the clerk, who pricks out of these 106 00:06:13,130 --> 00:06:16,630 Speaker 1: tiers of squares the price of what I order. The 107 00:06:16,670 --> 00:06:20,190 Speaker 1: credit cards in this fictional vision of the future, at 108 00:06:20,230 --> 00:06:24,100 Speaker 1: least the future from 1888, are always of a value 109 00:06:24,130 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: that is far beyond what any purchaser could ever need 110 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,300 Speaker 1: or use in a given year. So one of several 111 00:06:30,339 --> 00:06:33,659 Speaker 1: ways this credit cards concept is vastly different from the 112 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: modern credit card. In the early 20th century, it was 113 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,990 Speaker 1: fairly commonplace for stores to extend lines of credit to 114 00:06:41,110 --> 00:06:46,140 Speaker 1: customers who were well-known to that store. Western Union developed 115 00:06:46,250 --> 00:06:49,630 Speaker 1: a metal money system that issued a metal plate to 116 00:06:49,710 --> 00:06:53,550 Speaker 1: customers that let them get services on credit. In the 117 00:06:53,610 --> 00:06:57,210 Speaker 1: late 1920s, the Charger plate was introduced to help track 118 00:06:57,270 --> 00:07:00,859 Speaker 1: these kinds of credit lines. This was really similar in 119 00:07:00,890 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: form to a dog tag, and each would have a 120 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,979 Speaker 1: customer's name and address embossed on it. On the back 121 00:07:07,020 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: was a frame into which the customer could slide a 122 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:13,670 Speaker 1: card that had their signature on it. When a store 123 00:07:13,870 --> 00:07:17,330 Speaker 1: let a customer have items on credit, they aligned the 124 00:07:17,410 --> 00:07:20,270 Speaker 1: sales ticket with a carbon paper over the charger plate, 125 00:07:20,850 --> 00:07:24,230 Speaker 1: and they imprinted the customer information right onto the store copy. 126 00:07:25,250 --> 00:07:27,890 Speaker 1: One of these would only be good at the store 127 00:07:27,940 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: that issued it. So some stores would keep the charger 128 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,500 Speaker 1: plate on file, and then others were carried by the customer. Yeah, 129 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,100 Speaker 1: I did not find many examples of like, were there 130 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,310 Speaker 1: people that had charger plates for a lot of stores? 131 00:07:40,700 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: but I think that just kind of wasn't common the 132 00:07:42,820 --> 00:07:46,420 Speaker 1: way we would have multiple credit cards today. In 1946, 133 00:07:46,420 --> 00:07:51,430 Speaker 1: the charge-it system was introduced. That concept began in 1944 134 00:07:51,430 --> 00:07:54,670 Speaker 1: at the Flatbush National Bank in Brooklyn, New York, and 135 00:07:54,690 --> 00:07:58,310 Speaker 1: it was the brainchild of John C. Biggins. Although that 136 00:07:58,570 --> 00:08:00,950 Speaker 1: bank had the word national in its name, the Flatbush 137 00:08:00,990 --> 00:08:04,070 Speaker 1: Bank was very small and local. But the merchants in 138 00:08:04,110 --> 00:08:07,030 Speaker 1: the area had approached the bank about devising a credit 139 00:08:07,070 --> 00:08:11,350 Speaker 1: system that the bank would manage on their behalves. And Biggins, 140 00:08:11,430 --> 00:08:14,490 Speaker 1: who at the time managed various systems and processes for 141 00:08:14,530 --> 00:08:16,690 Speaker 1: the bank, like he was kind of an expert in 142 00:08:16,770 --> 00:08:20,750 Speaker 1: forms apparently, he devised this system where the stores could 143 00:08:20,870 --> 00:08:24,590 Speaker 1: issue credit accounts for their customers, but then the bank 144 00:08:24,630 --> 00:08:28,660 Speaker 1: would take over those accounts and manage them. Flatbush National 145 00:08:28,740 --> 00:08:32,599 Speaker 1: handled the credit checks and also the billing involved. It 146 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,700 Speaker 1: was very similar to how credit systems operate today, although 147 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,140 Speaker 1: the big difference is that it was a very localized format. 148 00:08:39,830 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: And this was initially quite popular. 13 stores participated in 149 00:08:43,390 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: this system, and there were 3,600 accounts across those 13 stores. 150 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,939 Speaker 1: But two things happened that killed off the program. One, 151 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,540 Speaker 1: a lot of the merchants that were involved found that 152 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,290 Speaker 1: their customers were getting really confused about whether they should 153 00:08:57,330 --> 00:09:00,530 Speaker 1: be paying the bank or the store when they went 154 00:09:00,550 --> 00:09:04,069 Speaker 1: to pay the balance on their account. And two, Flatbush 155 00:09:04,130 --> 00:09:07,470 Speaker 1: National was taken over by a larger bank, and that 156 00:09:07,510 --> 00:09:11,220 Speaker 1: larger bank ended the program. But a few years later, 157 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: in 1950, Biggins had moved on to the Patterson Savings 158 00:09:15,140 --> 00:09:18,459 Speaker 1: Institution in New Jersey, and that bank wanted to implement 159 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: the Biggins system. And it was successful once again. The 160 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,270 Speaker 1: Patterson iteration of the plan offered customers three account models. 161 00:09:27,010 --> 00:09:31,090 Speaker 1: One had 30-day payoff terms, one was 90 days, and 162 00:09:31,150 --> 00:09:35,490 Speaker 1: one was six months to pay. The merchant paid 6% 163 00:09:35,490 --> 00:09:37,929 Speaker 1: of each sales slip in return for the bank, keeping 164 00:09:38,010 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: tabs on the customer's creditworthiness and managing approvals. In a 165 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,339 Speaker 1: write-up in the Herald News of Passaic, New Jersey, in 166 00:09:45,380 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: November of 1958, the charges system was running very well 167 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:52,260 Speaker 1: for the bank. It was gaining attention on a national level. 168 00:09:53,030 --> 00:09:57,510 Speaker 1: But because it relied on filing sales slips, this could 169 00:09:57,570 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: only ever work in a very localized way. area. Yeah, 170 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,020 Speaker 1: the stores would send those slips to the bank, the 171 00:10:04,059 --> 00:10:06,820 Speaker 1: bank would file them, then the bank would tally up 172 00:10:06,900 --> 00:10:08,829 Speaker 1: everybody's accounts at the end of the month and have 173 00:10:08,870 --> 00:10:11,870 Speaker 1: those sent out. And so they couldn't really go any 174 00:10:11,929 --> 00:10:15,510 Speaker 1: farther than like a neighborhood, a community, maybe a town. 175 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: Coming up, we're going to talk about the card that 176 00:10:18,140 --> 00:10:21,020 Speaker 1: really opened the door to the modern credit system. But first, 177 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:33,890 Speaker 1: we will take a quick sponsor break. Also in 1950, 178 00:10:33,890 --> 00:10:36,990 Speaker 1: the Diners Club card was introduced. And this was the 179 00:10:37,030 --> 00:10:40,380 Speaker 1: brainchild of a man named Frank McNamara, who was a businessman. 180 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,970 Speaker 1: There are a couple of different ways that this story 181 00:10:44,090 --> 00:10:47,110 Speaker 1: is told. The first is that he had taken clients 182 00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:50,510 Speaker 1: out for dinner in a Manhattan restaurant and realized when 183 00:10:50,530 --> 00:10:52,449 Speaker 1: the bill came that he did not have his wallet. 184 00:10:53,370 --> 00:10:55,330 Speaker 1: His wife had to pay the tab out of the 185 00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:58,490 Speaker 1: cash in her wallet. Or in some versions, he called 186 00:10:58,570 --> 00:11:01,700 Speaker 1: her and she brought the money to the restaurant. Maybe. 187 00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: Or maybe Frank actually talked to the restaurant to let 188 00:11:05,580 --> 00:11:08,939 Speaker 1: him cover the meal on credit. But either way, if 189 00:11:08,980 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: you believe this version of the story, Frank is said 190 00:11:11,230 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: to have discussed this whole predicament with the owner of 191 00:11:14,090 --> 00:11:17,349 Speaker 1: the restaurant, noting that people forgetting their wallets couldn't be 192 00:11:17,390 --> 00:11:20,350 Speaker 1: all that unusual. And in one version of the story, 193 00:11:20,390 --> 00:11:23,750 Speaker 1: the owner wasn't interested in Frank's story and had made 194 00:11:23,770 --> 00:11:25,570 Speaker 1: him sit there and wait for his wife, which apparently 195 00:11:25,590 --> 00:11:28,189 Speaker 1: took a while. But in other versions of this version 196 00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:30,030 Speaker 1: of the story, I know I'm saying versions a lot, 197 00:11:30,070 --> 00:11:34,130 Speaker 1: but there are this version, which is probably fake, has 198 00:11:34,190 --> 00:11:38,150 Speaker 1: its own variations. Um, In others, he pitched the idea 199 00:11:38,190 --> 00:11:40,710 Speaker 1: to the owner of a charge card that people could 200 00:11:40,830 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 1: use to pay their bill without having to carry cash. 201 00:11:43,650 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: And in that variation, the owner was receptive. This is 202 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,660 Speaker 1: one of those things that brings up in my mind 203 00:11:48,700 --> 00:11:51,900 Speaker 1: the question of whether such a card would not also 204 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: be in a person's wallet that they forgot at home. 205 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: There's no easy answer there. You could do some easy 206 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,300 Speaker 1: speculation if you want. But the big thing is that 207 00:12:00,340 --> 00:12:03,020 Speaker 1: it would free people from having to have cash on hand. 208 00:12:03,850 --> 00:12:07,590 Speaker 1: So after that meal, according to version one and its 209 00:12:07,630 --> 00:12:11,470 Speaker 1: many variations, Frank reportedly met with his friend and lawyer, 210 00:12:11,550 --> 00:12:16,410 Speaker 1: Ralph Schneider, and Bloomingdale Department Store heir, Alfred S. Bloomingdale, 211 00:12:16,530 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: and the men put together a business plan. The other 212 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,219 Speaker 1: version of this story sounds a little bit more likely. 213 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: In this one, Frank, Ralph, and Alfred were all eating 214 00:12:27,020 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: together and they were discussing business. At the time, Frank 215 00:12:30,220 --> 00:12:33,860 Speaker 1: was working for the Hamilton Credit Corporation, which gave out loans. 216 00:12:34,380 --> 00:12:37,099 Speaker 1: And the company was having problems because one of their 217 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,579 Speaker 1: clients was letting his neighbors use his credit for purchases 218 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: of various merchants. And then he would collect from them. 219 00:12:44,660 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: But this system was not actually working out. Unsurprisingly, he 220 00:12:49,660 --> 00:12:53,569 Speaker 1: wound up deep in debt with these, letting his friends 221 00:12:53,950 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: use his credit. These three men considered that scenario and 222 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,300 Speaker 1: how it could potentially work if you made loans to 223 00:13:01,340 --> 00:13:05,100 Speaker 1: the right people and extended the credit in establishments that 224 00:13:05,260 --> 00:13:08,089 Speaker 1: already worked on a credit system of their own, which 225 00:13:08,130 --> 00:13:10,210 Speaker 1: a lot of New York restaurants did at the time. 226 00:13:10,890 --> 00:13:13,189 Speaker 1: You might actually be able to put together a lending 227 00:13:13,250 --> 00:13:16,330 Speaker 1: business with all that in mind. The men approached the 228 00:13:16,410 --> 00:13:18,770 Speaker 1: owner of the restaurant where they were eating. They had 229 00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:21,340 Speaker 1: a talk with him about what would make a partnership 230 00:13:21,380 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: with such a program worthwhile if it brought in new customers. 231 00:13:25,210 --> 00:13:28,850 Speaker 1: He's credited with giving the answer of 7% of their bills, 232 00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:33,189 Speaker 1: and that is how Diners Club was hatched. Bloomingdale split 233 00:13:33,309 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 1: off to form a similar company called Dine & Sign, 234 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,220 Speaker 1: but then that merged with Diners Club a few years later. 235 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: I will say, too, that first version of the story 236 00:13:42,220 --> 00:13:44,059 Speaker 1: that I gave about him being at a meal with 237 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,270 Speaker 1: a thing, years later, there was a former executive from 238 00:13:48,390 --> 00:13:50,790 Speaker 1: Diners Club that said, That was all a fiction they 239 00:13:50,809 --> 00:13:53,569 Speaker 1: made up because it made the beginning sound really good. Yeah, 240 00:13:53,690 --> 00:13:57,340 Speaker 1: it has the vibe of a marketing story made up 241 00:13:57,429 --> 00:14:01,220 Speaker 1: to give the origins of a business a cute tale 242 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,300 Speaker 1: behind it. Yeah, it's very like, I understand the trials 243 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,660 Speaker 1: and tribulations of the common man. But in any case, 244 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: when Diners Club started, it had these cardboard cards that 245 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,260 Speaker 1: members could present and they would simply sign for their meal. 246 00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:19,180 Speaker 1: The whole idea was rooted in this belief that if 247 00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:24,060 Speaker 1: a person had good credit, they shouldn't have to carry cash. Additionally, 248 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: the company issued these little books with the cards. Some 249 00:14:27,620 --> 00:14:29,340 Speaker 1: of the very early versions of the cards were actually 250 00:14:29,380 --> 00:14:32,300 Speaker 1: integrated into the book, and those books listed all of 251 00:14:32,340 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: the participating businesses in the area so people knew where 252 00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:38,340 Speaker 1: they could go and use their cards. The initial vision 253 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: was that this was going to be a New York-specific 254 00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:45,540 Speaker 1: business aimed at businessmen and developed in partnership with participating restaurants. 255 00:14:46,380 --> 00:14:48,950 Speaker 1: It wasn't a revolving credit program. It was one that 256 00:14:48,990 --> 00:14:51,609 Speaker 1: required paying your tab in full at the end of 257 00:14:51,650 --> 00:14:55,310 Speaker 1: the month. And it quickly evolved to include more types 258 00:14:55,370 --> 00:14:59,570 Speaker 1: of businesses than restaurants. Members paid an annual membership fee 259 00:14:59,650 --> 00:15:03,630 Speaker 1: and then participating businesses would also pay that 7% from 260 00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:07,660 Speaker 1: the cost of service. Diners Club collected all the money 261 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,780 Speaker 1: and paid out to the restaurants minus that percentage fee. 262 00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:14,890 Speaker 1: The system was designed to make transactions easier for both 263 00:15:14,910 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: the customers and the businesses. Diners Club started slowly as 264 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,500 Speaker 1: the business sought to get restaurants and diners to sign on, 265 00:15:23,540 --> 00:15:28,060 Speaker 1: but once things got rolling, it quickly expanded. By 1951, 266 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,630 Speaker 1: the service had 42,000 members across multiple U.S. cities, and 267 00:15:32,730 --> 00:15:37,710 Speaker 1: in 1953, it expanded internationally. By the end of 1956, 268 00:15:37,710 --> 00:15:41,310 Speaker 1: Diners Club members were charging an average of $ 3 million 269 00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:46,489 Speaker 1: worth of business every month. By 1959, there were 1 270 00:15:46,490 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: million members. And that growth continued as the company started 271 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,620 Speaker 1: to offer corporate cards, personal cards, and had an ever-expanding 272 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,940 Speaker 1: international reach. In 1990, McNamara was named as one of 273 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,940 Speaker 1: the 20th century's most influential people in Life magazine. he 274 00:16:04,980 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: and his colleagues certainly shifted the way people thought about 275 00:16:08,660 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: credit use. Diners Club still exists today, although now it 276 00:16:13,260 --> 00:16:17,250 Speaker 1: is owned by Capital One. It was previously owned by 277 00:16:17,330 --> 00:16:22,890 Speaker 1: Citicorp and Discover before Capital One acquired Discover in 2008. 278 00:16:22,890 --> 00:16:26,070 Speaker 1: While it has been overshadowed by other cards in the U.S., 279 00:16:26,090 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: it's still very popular in some other countries. U.S. customers 280 00:16:30,390 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: cannot apply for personal cards with Diners Club anymore, Its 281 00:16:35,220 --> 00:16:39,700 Speaker 1: focus in this country is on corporate accounts. Diners Club 282 00:16:39,820 --> 00:16:43,930 Speaker 1: inspired a lot of other similar businesses really quickly, but 283 00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:47,130 Speaker 1: most of them also sputtered out pretty quickly. In the 284 00:16:47,130 --> 00:16:50,890 Speaker 1: 2005 book, Paying with Plastic, The Digital Revolution in Buying 285 00:16:50,930 --> 00:16:55,030 Speaker 1: and Borrowing, author David S. Evans mentions National Credit Card, 286 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: which operated from 1951 to 1954, and then also something 287 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: called Trip Charge, which was acquired by Diners Club after 288 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,090 Speaker 1: just a few years in business. Diners Club similarly acquired 289 00:17:07,230 --> 00:17:10,220 Speaker 1: other startups in the credit card space in the 1950s. 290 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: Various banks tried launching their own cards, but most of 291 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: them ended up canceling their programs due to the complexities 292 00:17:17,340 --> 00:17:23,090 Speaker 1: involved in running them. Hilton's Carte Blanche, which launched in 1958, 293 00:17:23,090 --> 00:17:26,350 Speaker 1: operated in the red for many, many years, and then 294 00:17:26,490 --> 00:17:30,189 Speaker 1: it too was eventually acquired by Diners Club. This is 295 00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:34,629 Speaker 1: also a time when attitudes about credit were changing significantly. 296 00:17:35,130 --> 00:17:38,750 Speaker 1: Time magazine wrote in 1958, quote, credit, which was once 297 00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:41,369 Speaker 1: the sign that a person had trouble meeting his bills, 298 00:17:41,910 --> 00:17:44,970 Speaker 1: has taken on a glamorous new meaning in recent years. 299 00:17:45,609 --> 00:17:47,530 Speaker 1: Now a man with a credit card can rent a 300 00:17:47,609 --> 00:17:50,780 Speaker 1: plane or boat or car, live it up in nightclubs, 301 00:17:50,859 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: take a safari to Africa, and even get a Kelly 302 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,060 Speaker 1: girl for temporary office help. Why? Because of the credit 303 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:02,109 Speaker 1: card game. American Express was the next major player to 304 00:18:02,170 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: emerge into the credit card space, although the company's origins 305 00:18:05,619 --> 00:18:08,580 Speaker 1: were far different than that. The company was formed on 306 00:18:08,619 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: March 18, 1850 in Buffalo, New York, when Henry Wells, 307 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,619 Speaker 1: William Fargo, and John Butterfield decided to combine their competing 308 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: express delivery firms into one. That new company was initially 309 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: focused on shipping money, so coins, checks, and bank bills, 310 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: and many of their customers were, unsurprisingly... banks who needed 311 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: things moved quickly and safely via courier. Eventually, shipping other 312 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,850 Speaker 1: goods became part of the American Express business. American Express 313 00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:44,350 Speaker 1: started its Traveler's Check program in 1891. While that concept 314 00:18:44,369 --> 00:18:47,550 Speaker 1: had been around since the late 18th century in Europe, 315 00:18:47,930 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: the offerings of American Express were a lot more robust. 316 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,460 Speaker 1: In 1958, American Express offered its first cards as part 317 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:00,550 Speaker 1: of its larger Traveler's Checks program. I feel that there 318 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: is kind of a line of when people might be 319 00:19:03,220 --> 00:19:06,260 Speaker 1: aware of what a traveler's check is, and it was 320 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:13,340 Speaker 1: basically something that would be acceptable as cash anywhere, but 321 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,150 Speaker 1: was not cash. So if your wallet got stolen while 322 00:19:18,190 --> 00:19:20,889 Speaker 1: you were on a trip to Paris, your traveler's checks 323 00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:24,409 Speaker 1: could be reissued rather than you just being out the 324 00:19:24,450 --> 00:19:28,250 Speaker 1: cash you had been carrying with you. This initial offering 325 00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:31,929 Speaker 1: from American Express was similar to the Diners Club in 326 00:19:31,950 --> 00:19:34,780 Speaker 1: that the expectation was that the bill would be paid 327 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: in full every month. Additionally, the American Express card sought 328 00:19:39,340 --> 00:19:42,899 Speaker 1: initially to fill the gaps that were left by Diners Club. 329 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,030 Speaker 1: So while they worked with restaurants too, they also worked 330 00:19:46,050 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: with motels, florists, and other businesses. that Diners Club did 331 00:19:49,780 --> 00:19:53,899 Speaker 1: not have partnerships with. This venture struggled in its early 332 00:19:53,940 --> 00:19:56,260 Speaker 1: years as the company tried to figure out how to 333 00:19:56,340 --> 00:20:01,100 Speaker 1: balance outgoing money for charges with incoming money from cardholders. 334 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: There was a consideration of selling the division to Diners Club, 335 00:20:05,790 --> 00:20:09,510 Speaker 1: but Amex opted for a whole overhaul of the program instead. 336 00:20:10,330 --> 00:20:16,189 Speaker 1: American Express issued the first plastic charge cards in 1959. 337 00:20:16,190 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: We mentioned that they started in 1958, and also in 1958, 338 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:24,139 Speaker 1: the first Bank of America-issued credit card, the Bank AmeriCard, 339 00:20:24,180 --> 00:20:28,900 Speaker 1: was introduced. The initial test area for this card was Fresno, California, 340 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: and the company made a bold move that has come 341 00:20:31,470 --> 00:20:33,790 Speaker 1: to be known as the Fresno Drop. I feel like 342 00:20:33,850 --> 00:20:36,410 Speaker 1: anybody that works in finance knows of the Fresno Drop, 343 00:20:36,450 --> 00:20:37,990 Speaker 1: and they all kind of shudder if you say it. 344 00:20:38,830 --> 00:20:42,090 Speaker 1: This idea was cooked up by the company's customer services 345 00:20:42,190 --> 00:20:47,650 Speaker 1: research department. So on September 18th of 1958, 60,000 Bank 346 00:20:47,690 --> 00:20:51,230 Speaker 1: of America cards were mailed to Fresno residents, each with 347 00:20:51,290 --> 00:20:55,990 Speaker 1: either a $ 300 or $ 500 credit line. There was no 348 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: application process. The cards were issued by the bank without 349 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,260 Speaker 1: any questions or review. And if you had an account 350 00:21:02,340 --> 00:21:06,419 Speaker 1: at Bank of America, you got a card. After Fresno, 351 00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:10,330 Speaker 1: cards were issued in other California cities. Bank of America 352 00:21:10,390 --> 00:21:14,850 Speaker 1: was only operating in that state at the time. To 353 00:21:14,890 --> 00:21:17,229 Speaker 1: be clear, that should not lead anybody to think that 354 00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:20,699 Speaker 1: Bank of America was small at this point. In 1958, 355 00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:24,659 Speaker 1: California's economy was reportedly larger than Japan's, and Bank of 356 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: America was the largest bank in the U.S. This was 357 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,570 Speaker 1: a big departure from the way Diners Club and American 358 00:21:31,609 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: Express had operated. Those cards were essentially a promise to 359 00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:39,260 Speaker 1: pay like a formalized IOU program. But the Bank of 360 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: America card was essentially a small loan. Again, without any paperwork, 361 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,770 Speaker 1: without having actually asked for a loan. The upside of 362 00:21:48,810 --> 00:21:51,170 Speaker 1: this bold move by Bank of America was that a 363 00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:54,770 Speaker 1: lot of businesses that had not accepted cards up to 364 00:21:54,810 --> 00:21:58,090 Speaker 1: that point were willing to sign on as partners. After all, 365 00:21:58,130 --> 00:22:01,150 Speaker 1: there were now tens of thousands of consumers with new 366 00:22:01,290 --> 00:22:04,790 Speaker 1: purchasing options in the area, and nobody wanted to miss 367 00:22:04,869 --> 00:22:08,450 Speaker 1: out on that. But that also meant, of course, all 368 00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:11,610 Speaker 1: of this lack of paperwork we keep referencing. The bank 369 00:22:11,650 --> 00:22:14,929 Speaker 1: was taking a huge risk, and that risk manifested in 370 00:22:15,020 --> 00:22:18,500 Speaker 1: huge problems for Bank of America. So the company had 371 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: done estimates on expected scenarios like late payments and delinquent accounts, 372 00:22:23,420 --> 00:22:28,420 Speaker 1: but they had severely underestimated those. Additionally, they had really 373 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,430 Speaker 1: not prepared for the levels of fraud that would arise 374 00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:36,389 Speaker 1: almost immediately. Delinquent accounts, fake credit cards appearing on the market, 375 00:22:36,690 --> 00:22:40,790 Speaker 1: and merchant frustration were all significant issues in the first 376 00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:45,149 Speaker 1: two years. Additionally, with no real paper trail to trace 377 00:22:45,270 --> 00:22:49,460 Speaker 1: mailed cards, some that were misdelivered were used by the 378 00:22:49,500 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: people who got them erroneously, and there was no way 379 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,340 Speaker 1: to know who those people were to get them to 380 00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:00,180 Speaker 1: pay that money back. The bank lost millions of dollars initially. 381 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,810 Speaker 1: But instead of scrapping the program, the decision was made 382 00:23:03,869 --> 00:23:07,370 Speaker 1: to overhaul it because Bank of America executives thought there 383 00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:10,230 Speaker 1: was something there. They just needed to fix these problems. 384 00:23:10,850 --> 00:23:14,550 Speaker 1: Collections procedures were put in place and retailers were appeased 385 00:23:14,609 --> 00:23:18,100 Speaker 1: by lower fees. By the end of 1961, so just 386 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: three years into it, the program and its revolving debt 387 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:26,020 Speaker 1: concept were profitable. We'll talk about an innovation you're probably 388 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: carrying around in your wallet right now after we hear 389 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,860 Speaker 1: from some of the sponsors that keep Stuff You Missed 390 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:44,470 Speaker 1: in History class going. In 1960, an IBM engineer named 391 00:23:44,550 --> 00:23:48,090 Speaker 1: Forrest Perry developed the magnetic stripe that you still see 392 00:23:48,130 --> 00:23:51,670 Speaker 1: on the backs of credit cards. That stripe stores data, 393 00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:55,690 Speaker 1: but it wasn't originally intended for banking use. Perry's first 394 00:23:55,710 --> 00:23:57,930 Speaker 1: goal was to create a strip that could be encoded 395 00:23:57,990 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: for CIA ID cards. Encoding the tape was easy, right? 396 00:24:02,660 --> 00:24:05,139 Speaker 1: If you know anything about computer history, you know they 397 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,500 Speaker 1: were operating with tapes at this point, and they had 398 00:24:07,540 --> 00:24:10,460 Speaker 1: figured out how to do that, but figuring out how 399 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,630 Speaker 1: to attach it to an ID card was a little 400 00:24:12,650 --> 00:24:16,449 Speaker 1: bit of a challenge. The official story from IBM is 401 00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: that Perry's wife, suggested that he fused the plastic onto 402 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: the cards with a warm iron, and that apparently did 403 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: the trick. Perhaps I am naive, but I'm like, how 404 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: did that not mess with any of the data? Doesn't matter, 405 00:24:28,859 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: it worked. In addition to use on ID cards, IBM 406 00:24:32,550 --> 00:24:36,330 Speaker 1: soon began to offer the magnetic card strip for other applications, 407 00:24:36,430 --> 00:24:41,250 Speaker 1: including banking. By 1969, it was the standard around the 408 00:24:41,290 --> 00:24:45,100 Speaker 1: world for credit cards to have one. The nearly universal 409 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: use of the magstrip propelled the global credit card market 410 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: at a rapid rate, and it made it possible to 411 00:24:51,180 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: authorize transactions anywhere. If you remember pre this magnetic stripe 412 00:24:56,369 --> 00:25:00,390 Speaker 1: being really adopted worldwide, there were times when people would 413 00:25:00,430 --> 00:25:02,609 Speaker 1: call your bank and say, do they have enough credit 414 00:25:02,650 --> 00:25:05,530 Speaker 1: to buy this? You didn't have to do that anymore. 415 00:25:05,550 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: The readers could just read the stripe. Also, incidentally, you 416 00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:12,780 Speaker 1: can also thank Forrest Perry for another innovation that is 417 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,550 Speaker 1: part of our lives every day, and that is the 418 00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:20,030 Speaker 1: UPC barcode that has become part of retail systems absolutely everywhere. Meanwhile, 419 00:25:20,130 --> 00:25:25,850 Speaker 1: starting in 1966, Bank AmeriCard's program expanded through leasing. It 420 00:25:25,869 --> 00:25:29,169 Speaker 1: was letting other banks set up franchise usage of the 421 00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:33,150 Speaker 1: Bank AmeriCard themes. This enabled a California bank to get 422 00:25:33,170 --> 00:25:36,970 Speaker 1: around the issues of interstate banking law because even though 423 00:25:37,109 --> 00:25:42,010 Speaker 1: franchises were independent, any merchants they formed partnership with had 424 00:25:42,030 --> 00:25:45,729 Speaker 1: to take any Bank AmeriCard. Eventually, the banks that were 425 00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:50,149 Speaker 1: leasing the Bank AmeriCard name formed an independent organization called 426 00:25:50,369 --> 00:25:56,060 Speaker 1: National Bank AmeriCard, Inc., or NBI. NBI rebranded as Visa 427 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: in 1976. In 1970, Bank AmeriCard had become so successful 428 00:26:02,540 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 1: that a new company, International Bank Card Company, was founded 429 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,860 Speaker 1: to handle the international demand for the card. Shortly after 430 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,300 Speaker 1: the NBI formed, another competitor group formed. This was made 431 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,530 Speaker 1: up of banking firms from California, and it was founded 432 00:26:18,660 --> 00:26:24,130 Speaker 1: as the Interbank Card Association in 1966. This group set 433 00:26:24,170 --> 00:26:27,369 Speaker 1: up their own credit card called the Interbank Card. And 434 00:26:27,390 --> 00:26:30,950 Speaker 1: then in 1968, that card became known as Master Charge, 435 00:26:31,090 --> 00:26:36,060 Speaker 1: and in 1979, rebranded one more time to MasterCard. As 436 00:26:36,220 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: Visa and MasterCard were developing and evolving, in 1974, another 437 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,139 Speaker 1: milestone in credit was achieved when women were granted the 438 00:26:45,180 --> 00:26:47,980 Speaker 1: right to get credit cards in their own name without 439 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,710 Speaker 1: a male cosigner. Before this point, there was no law 440 00:26:53,010 --> 00:26:56,850 Speaker 1: against women getting cards, but most banks had a policy 441 00:26:56,930 --> 00:27:00,510 Speaker 1: that a husband, father, or male guardian had to give 442 00:27:00,630 --> 00:27:03,330 Speaker 1: permission for a woman to get one or for a 443 00:27:03,369 --> 00:27:07,869 Speaker 1: man to co-sign as a guarantor. The same is true 444 00:27:07,950 --> 00:27:11,490 Speaker 1: of women having bank accounts into the 20th century. While 445 00:27:11,540 --> 00:27:14,540 Speaker 1: there was no law forbidding it, there was also no 446 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,570 Speaker 1: law preventing banks from making that a policy. This all 447 00:27:19,710 --> 00:27:22,530 Speaker 1: harkens back to the coverture laws that we've talked about 448 00:27:22,609 --> 00:27:25,469 Speaker 1: on the show before. Even if a woman had her 449 00:27:25,550 --> 00:27:29,170 Speaker 1: own assets, if she got married, those assets automatically became 450 00:27:29,210 --> 00:27:33,990 Speaker 1: the property of her husband under coverture laws. States began 451 00:27:34,130 --> 00:27:38,020 Speaker 1: enacting laws that enabled women to own their own property 452 00:27:38,220 --> 00:27:41,220 Speaker 1: even if they were married as early as 1839. The 453 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,980 Speaker 1: first in the U.S. was Mississippi. But it was a 454 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:50,810 Speaker 1: very slow progression to get that more widely adopted. In 1862, 455 00:27:50,810 --> 00:27:53,410 Speaker 1: California was the first state to let women have their 456 00:27:53,470 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: own bank accounts by law. That, similarly, took a very 457 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: long time to spread to other states. Some banks even 458 00:28:01,540 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: had their own women's banking offices so that women would 459 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,649 Speaker 1: not be seen in regular banking areas. That's not a 460 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,869 Speaker 1: place for a lady to be, was the thinking. Most 461 00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:15,730 Speaker 1: women had very little, if any, say, in the financial 462 00:28:15,810 --> 00:28:18,820 Speaker 1: interests of their marriages or their family's. for a very 463 00:28:18,859 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: long time in the U.S. And as this relates to 464 00:28:21,619 --> 00:28:25,060 Speaker 1: credit cards, it changed thanks to the Equal Credit Opportunity 465 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,300 Speaker 1: Act of 1974, which is actually Title VII of the 466 00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:32,740 Speaker 1: Consumer Credit Protection Act that was passed that year. And 467 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,820 Speaker 1: this act states that, quote, it shall be unlawful for 468 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,700 Speaker 1: any creditor to discriminate against any applicant with respect to 469 00:28:39,870 --> 00:28:42,300 Speaker 1: any aspect Listen, this, of course, did not magically solve 470 00:28:42,320 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: issues of gender discrimination in banking. particularly when you look 471 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,300 Speaker 1: at things like the intersectionality of other social identities like race, 472 00:29:15,740 --> 00:29:18,700 Speaker 1: but it did establish the law. And for that, we 473 00:29:18,740 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: have to tip our hats to Ruth Bader Ginsburg. She 474 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: was one of the founders of the ACLU Women's Rights 475 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:29,740 Speaker 1: Project in 1972, and that group pushed protections financially through 476 00:29:29,820 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: legal challenges to discriminatory practices. In other legal maneuvering in 1979, 477 00:29:35,550 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: South Dakota lifted its usury law, meaning there was no 478 00:29:40,580 --> 00:29:43,940 Speaker 1: longer a cap on interest. As a consequence, a lot 479 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: of banks moved their credit card divisions to South Dakota, 480 00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: where they could charge a lot more interest, and soon 481 00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:54,370 Speaker 1: that became the nation's credit card capital. Delaware made a 482 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,850 Speaker 1: similar move to split the business. These moves helped make 483 00:29:58,930 --> 00:30:02,570 Speaker 1: credit cards the most profitable part of the banking industry. 484 00:30:03,370 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: In 2004, talking to PBS's Frontline, lobbyist Ed Yingling, the 485 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,060 Speaker 1: president and CEO of American Bankers Association, stated that is 486 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,980 Speaker 1: how it should be because it's inherently riskier for the banks. Yeah, 487 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,270 Speaker 1: his case was like, well, we're loaning money to all 488 00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:22,690 Speaker 1: these people. Of course, there's so much risk, we should 489 00:30:22,730 --> 00:30:25,830 Speaker 1: make a lot of money back from it. You can 490 00:30:25,910 --> 00:30:28,210 Speaker 1: take what you like out of that. There is no 491 00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:33,430 Speaker 1: federal cap today on credit card interest rates. The 10% 492 00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:36,550 Speaker 1: Credit Card Interest Rate Cap Act was introduced as a 493 00:30:36,670 --> 00:30:39,690 Speaker 1: bipartisan bill in both the House and the Senate in 494 00:30:39,770 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: early 2025, but it has been stalled after referral to 495 00:30:43,660 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs in the Senate. 496 00:30:47,310 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: It has not had a floor vote as of this recording, 497 00:30:49,970 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: which is happening in November of 2026. But there are 498 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,900 Speaker 1: some protections in place for consumers. The Consumer Credit Protection 499 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: Act was approved in May 1968. Today, that, of course, 500 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,540 Speaker 1: has been amended and expanded and includes the Truth in 501 00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: Lending Act, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, the Equal Credit 502 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,350 Speaker 1: Opportunity Act, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and the 503 00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:17,460 Speaker 1: Electronic Funds Transfer Act. The Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and 504 00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:21,460 Speaker 1: Disclosure Act of 2009 amended the Truth in Lending Act 505 00:31:21,860 --> 00:31:24,530 Speaker 1: and put fee restrictions in place at the federal level, 506 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,810 Speaker 1: as well as preventing retroactive rate hikes on existing balances 507 00:31:29,330 --> 00:31:33,870 Speaker 1: and codifying the necessity for billing transparency. This act also 508 00:31:33,950 --> 00:31:37,170 Speaker 1: prevents people younger than 21 from getting a credit card 509 00:31:37,210 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: without proving their income or having a cosigner. In case 510 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: you are wondering why that's cool and not somehow discriminatory, 511 00:31:44,750 --> 00:31:47,170 Speaker 1: It's because a lot of banks go to college campuses 512 00:31:47,270 --> 00:31:51,260 Speaker 1: and start issuing credit accounts to college freshmen on day one. 513 00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:55,780 Speaker 1: Ask how I know. And a lot of times it 514 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,300 Speaker 1: is not clear to those kids what they're signing up for. Yeah. 515 00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:01,260 Speaker 1: I got my first credit card at a table under 516 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: a tent on my college campus. 100% same. I was 517 00:32:04,860 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: not a freshman, but I was not 21 yet. Right 518 00:32:09,340 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: outside the student center. That's exactly where it was in 519 00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: my college too. Up to this point, we have been 520 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,300 Speaker 1: talking about developments that started in the United States. As 521 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,980 Speaker 1: Louis Mandel and Sarah Holmes put it in an article 522 00:32:24,020 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: for EBSCO, quote, the credit card industry has been a 523 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:32,740 Speaker 1: peculiarly American development. Since the United States is so large geographically, 524 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,940 Speaker 1: as the population became more mobile, the personal trust that 525 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,410 Speaker 1: existed between merchants and their best customers eroded. It was 526 00:32:41,470 --> 00:32:45,580 Speaker 1: this trust that enabled merchants to extend credit to customers. 527 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: Customers needed a card that could be used across the nation, 528 00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:55,450 Speaker 1: and retailers needed a third-party guarantor of the debt. Thus, 529 00:32:55,550 --> 00:32:58,650 Speaker 1: the advent of the credit card industry affected the ability 530 00:32:58,830 --> 00:33:01,930 Speaker 1: of consumers to leave their hometowns and still be able 531 00:33:01,970 --> 00:33:05,990 Speaker 1: to purchase goods and services on credit. But even though 532 00:33:06,030 --> 00:33:08,860 Speaker 1: this is a uniquely U.S. thing in many ways, the 533 00:33:08,910 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: next innovation in credit cards began outside the U.S. in France. 534 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,220 Speaker 1: Because French banks were implementing microprocessor chip cards as early 535 00:33:18,260 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: as the 1960s. These could be used at payment terminals, 536 00:33:22,140 --> 00:33:24,980 Speaker 1: equipped to read them, and they offered the extra security 537 00:33:25,050 --> 00:33:28,950 Speaker 1: of entering a personal identification number to complete a transaction. 538 00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:33,690 Speaker 1: These went into widespread use in France, and by the mid-1990s, 539 00:33:33,810 --> 00:33:36,530 Speaker 1: it was standard on all credit and debit cards in 540 00:33:36,570 --> 00:33:41,930 Speaker 1: the country. As France's increased security measures for cards became known, 541 00:33:42,150 --> 00:33:46,410 Speaker 1: other countries developed their own systems for chip cards and readers. 542 00:33:47,470 --> 00:33:49,730 Speaker 1: But that was the problem. Soon there were a bunch 543 00:33:49,790 --> 00:33:52,530 Speaker 1: of different kinds of chip cards, and there was no 544 00:33:52,610 --> 00:33:58,100 Speaker 1: cross-functionality among them. In 1994, just as France had standardized 545 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:03,270 Speaker 1: their system, Visa, MasterCard, and Europay started working together on 546 00:34:03,290 --> 00:34:06,370 Speaker 1: a system that could be rolled out globally. The first 547 00:34:06,610 --> 00:34:11,110 Speaker 1: two years were spent establishing the needed specs for EMV chips. 548 00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: The EMV stands for Europay, MasterCard, and Visa. Chip readers 549 00:34:15,980 --> 00:34:20,650 Speaker 1: also continued to develop, and by 2005, which is earlier 550 00:34:20,690 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: than I would have thought. The first tap-to-pay systems were introduced. 551 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 1: But even so, chip cards did not become the standard 552 00:34:28,820 --> 00:34:32,420 Speaker 1: in the U.S. until October 1, 2015, more than 20 553 00:34:32,420 --> 00:34:36,870 Speaker 1: years after France had rolled them out nationwide. Digital forms 554 00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:40,029 Speaker 1: of cards are becoming more and more common since their 555 00:34:40,090 --> 00:34:43,670 Speaker 1: launch in the 2010s, and predictions that physical cards will 556 00:34:43,730 --> 00:34:48,210 Speaker 1: phase out continue to be made, although those predictions have 557 00:34:48,270 --> 00:34:51,870 Speaker 1: existed for decades already yeah and it really was the 558 00:34:51,910 --> 00:34:54,750 Speaker 1: introduction of those physical cards that led to the knuckle 559 00:34:54,770 --> 00:34:56,529 Speaker 1: buster that i mentioned at the top of the show 560 00:34:57,070 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 1: because they could quickly imprint on your sales slip or 561 00:35:00,100 --> 00:35:02,259 Speaker 1: you could hand write out a sales slip if you 562 00:35:02,300 --> 00:35:05,980 Speaker 1: worked in a mall store hair salon like some of 563 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: us did use the knuckle buster um but that of 564 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,060 Speaker 1: course also phased out as we got all of these 565 00:35:12,100 --> 00:35:15,089 Speaker 1: terminals that can just read them much more quickly Yeah, 566 00:35:15,210 --> 00:35:19,270 Speaker 1: read the magnetic strip instead of reading an embossed raised 567 00:35:19,410 --> 00:35:22,710 Speaker 1: lettering on the front and then now reading a chip. 568 00:35:23,890 --> 00:35:28,030 Speaker 1: By 2004, the average American family had eight credit cards, 569 00:35:28,170 --> 00:35:33,010 Speaker 1: according to the PBS program Frontline that was released that year. 570 00:35:33,730 --> 00:35:36,739 Speaker 1: Experience states on their site that as of today, U.S. 571 00:35:37,219 --> 00:35:39,819 Speaker 1: consumers carry a whopping $ 1. 23 trillion in credit card debt. 572 00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: The average credit card balance is $ 6, 768. I bet for 573 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,210 Speaker 1: some people that sounds high and for others it sounds 574 00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:54,670 Speaker 1: real low. Credit card debt. We can talk about that 575 00:35:55,090 --> 00:35:58,050 Speaker 1: on Behind the Scenes. Yeah. But in the meantime, I 576 00:35:58,630 --> 00:36:01,779 Speaker 1: have other things to talk about in Listener Mail. I 577 00:36:01,860 --> 00:36:04,620 Speaker 1: have a Listener Mail ready to go that has nothing 578 00:36:04,660 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: to do with credit, but it does have a little 579 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 1: bit to do with murder. Or more specifically, murder weapons. 580 00:36:11,230 --> 00:36:13,089 Speaker 1: This is from our listener, Lauren, who writes, Hi, Holly 581 00:36:13,130 --> 00:36:15,350 Speaker 1: and Tracy. I was just listening to your behind the 582 00:36:15,370 --> 00:36:18,030 Speaker 1: scenes episode on the Red Barn murder and was amused 583 00:36:18,050 --> 00:36:20,069 Speaker 1: to hear the story of how the murder weapons ended 584 00:36:20,130 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: up with the individual officer after the trial. We have 585 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,940 Speaker 1: a family story that is quite similar. My husband's grandfather 586 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: was a rural judge back in the 50s and 60s. 587 00:36:30,219 --> 00:36:33,940 Speaker 1: We inherited his collection of firearms, including a rifle that 588 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,509 Speaker 1: was supposed to be a murder weapon. It has a 589 00:36:36,550 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: sort of fiddly mechanism to cock the hammer, and the 590 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,380 Speaker 1: story is that a man used it to kill his wife, 591 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,780 Speaker 1: but claimed in his trial that it had gone off accidentally. 592 00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:48,100 Speaker 1: While it is very easy for that particular weapon to 593 00:36:48,180 --> 00:36:51,870 Speaker 1: discharge accidentally, that doesn't explain why it was pointed at 594 00:36:51,890 --> 00:36:55,890 Speaker 1: the wife, so I'm skeptical of the explanation. After the trial, 595 00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:58,550 Speaker 1: it seems that the judge was allowed to keep the evidence. 596 00:36:59,330 --> 00:37:01,419 Speaker 1: I'm in a position to confirm that this is not 597 00:37:01,460 --> 00:37:04,910 Speaker 1: how things are handled today. I'm a prosecuting attorney, or 598 00:37:04,969 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: as Law & Order calls us, assistant district attorney. and 599 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: I specialized in homicides for three years. Nowadays, evidence, including weapons, 600 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 1: is held by the court clerk's office until all appeals 601 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,340 Speaker 1: are final, and then it is either destroyed or returned 602 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,770 Speaker 1: to the police to give back to next of kin. 603 00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:26,790 Speaker 1: Weapons are definitely destroyed. My job has made it so 604 00:37:26,830 --> 00:37:29,910 Speaker 1: I cannot handle any kind of violence for entertainment. I 605 00:37:29,950 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: make an exception for your October episodes, but it has 606 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,989 Speaker 1: also conveniently cured me of my fear of ghosts. I 607 00:37:36,010 --> 00:37:38,390 Speaker 1: was working late alone in the office during a domestic 608 00:37:38,410 --> 00:37:40,779 Speaker 1: violence murder trial, and I had a big box of 609 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,900 Speaker 1: evidence in my office that was going to be introduced 610 00:37:42,940 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: in court the next day. I had a moment where 611 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,580 Speaker 1: I realized that the box contents included the clothes our 612 00:37:48,620 --> 00:37:51,860 Speaker 1: victim was wearing when she was killed. This was a 613 00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:55,060 Speaker 1: prime opportunity for a haunting. But then I thought, if 614 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,299 Speaker 1: our victim wanted to keep me company while I tried 615 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,090 Speaker 1: to bring our killer to justice, that actually doesn't sound 616 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,910 Speaker 1: so bad. Since then, I'm only afraid of what living 617 00:38:02,969 --> 00:38:05,370 Speaker 1: humans might do. The dead ones don't bother me anymore. 618 00:38:05,900 --> 00:38:08,399 Speaker 1: That's kind of a great way to look at it. Also, 619 00:38:08,460 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: thank you for the work you do. Pet tax. I 620 00:38:11,580 --> 00:38:14,260 Speaker 1: have attached some photos of our three gremlins in their 621 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,070 Speaker 1: silliest poses. I've also included a photo of one of 622 00:38:17,090 --> 00:38:22,630 Speaker 1: my recent craft projects, a completely hand-sewn early 16th century gown, kirtle, 623 00:38:22,730 --> 00:38:26,129 Speaker 1: and shift, including blackwork embroidery. I don't know how those 624 00:38:26,350 --> 00:38:30,469 Speaker 1: 16th century sewists managed without dissolvable grid. I barely kept 625 00:38:30,510 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: my sanity as it was. Thanks for all you do 626 00:38:32,620 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 1: and happy Halloween. Oh my goodness, these photos. Okay, first 627 00:38:35,380 --> 00:38:38,009 Speaker 1: of all, there is a gray cat. I want to 628 00:38:38,050 --> 00:38:40,010 Speaker 1: rub that tummy. I want to kiss it. It's curled 629 00:38:40,070 --> 00:38:41,569 Speaker 1: up in a little ball in what we call the 630 00:38:41,650 --> 00:38:45,290 Speaker 1: inside out shrimp posture where it's turned. So its belly 631 00:38:45,350 --> 00:38:47,710 Speaker 1: is sort of out and its chin is exposed. It 632 00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:50,450 Speaker 1: needs all the scritches. It's the prettiest thing. It looks very, 633 00:38:50,489 --> 00:38:54,060 Speaker 1: very beautiful. There is also this picture of this gown, 634 00:38:54,140 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: which is So spectacularly beautiful and beautifully made. It's like 635 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: this teal and black affair with the white pieces that 636 00:39:03,060 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 1: have black work on it. It is utterly gorgeous. So 637 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: congratulations on that because you did a beautiful job. There 638 00:39:09,260 --> 00:39:12,500 Speaker 1: is another spectacular. This looks like a black cat sitting 639 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,050 Speaker 1: like a people on its badonk with its back legs 640 00:39:16,070 --> 00:39:19,350 Speaker 1: sticking out forward. And it just looks like it's kind 641 00:39:19,390 --> 00:39:22,250 Speaker 1: of had it. Maybe had a rough day. If cats 642 00:39:22,290 --> 00:39:25,620 Speaker 1: could smoke cigarettes, it would. Please don't. And then there 643 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,390 Speaker 1: is a lovely combo burrito of these two beautiful cats. 644 00:39:30,219 --> 00:39:32,860 Speaker 1: sprawling and rolling and it is the cutest cutest cutest 645 00:39:32,900 --> 00:39:36,540 Speaker 1: these cats are gorgeous that dress is gorgeous and thank 646 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,580 Speaker 1: you for explaining what happens to evidence after trials because 647 00:39:40,620 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: i didn't know and i didn't bother to look it 648 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,220 Speaker 1: up but now we know if you would like to 649 00:39:45,260 --> 00:39:48,230 Speaker 1: write to us and show us your cats doing human-ish 650 00:39:48,290 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 1: things or Anything you want. Any animal, any pets are welcome. 651 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 1: Any cool projects are welcome. Artsy or otherwise. Send us 652 00:39:56,739 --> 00:39:59,280 Speaker 1: whatever you want. Send us an email that just says hi. 653 00:39:59,530 --> 00:40:02,210 Speaker 1: That's cool too. We have no rules about what emails 654 00:40:02,230 --> 00:40:07,630 Speaker 1: should contain. But you can do that at historypodcast at iheartradio.com. 655 00:40:08,010 --> 00:40:09,510 Speaker 1: If you want to see the show notes for today's 656 00:40:09,550 --> 00:40:12,730 Speaker 1: episode or any of the episodes that we work on 657 00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:14,690 Speaker 1: or that we have worked on in the sort of 658 00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: modern era of the show, Those are at MissedInHistory.com. You 659 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,260 Speaker 1: can click on any episode and it will have those 660 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,390 Speaker 1: included in the show notes. You'll see all the resources 661 00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:27,510 Speaker 1: we used. So take advantage of those resources for yourself 662 00:40:27,590 --> 00:40:30,230 Speaker 1: if you wish. If you have not yet subscribed to 663 00:40:30,270 --> 00:40:32,230 Speaker 1: the podcast and you would like to, that is the 664 00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:35,410 Speaker 1: easiest thing on earth to do. Way easier than embroidering 665 00:40:35,450 --> 00:40:38,170 Speaker 1: black work. You can just hit the subscribe button on 666 00:40:38,210 --> 00:40:41,180 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows. 667 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 668 00:40:50,140 --> 00:40:54,689 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 669 00:40:54,850 --> 00:40:56,780 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.