1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: is the Thing Today. We're live from the Mayo Performing 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: Arts Center in Morristown, New Jersey, where I sat down 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: recently with musician, poet and artist Patti Smith. Thank you 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: for coming. We're here at at the Mayo. My guest 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: for the show this evening as somebody who is you know, 7 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: a very uh unique person in the world of music. 8 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: You know, a true poet, performance artists. I mean, so 9 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: many things you could apply to her, but I think 10 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: most people know her as a as a great and 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 1: kind of iconic musician. So please join me in welcoming 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: Patti Smith. Hi. We were talking backstage about how I 13 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: wonder what it would be like if you and I 14 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: we're kind of starting in our respective businesses. Now do 15 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: you think that you're of your time and you came 16 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: right when you should have come, and and if you 17 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: were to come onto the scene now with what you 18 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: think the music scene is like? Now, well, what would 19 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: you do? I forgot to ask it? What age like? 20 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: My age? I came on? Now? Oh god, no, no 21 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: visits applies to me too, No, no, no, no, I'd 22 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: be agreed or at a Vegas Hotel. If I was 23 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: starting at my age, I actually I have no idea 24 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: because I didn't really come into the music business. I was. 25 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: I came. I wound up in music by mistake. I'm 26 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: not really a musician. I didn't really want to be 27 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: a musician or a singer. I just wanted to I 28 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: wanted to be a poet and a writer, and it 29 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:08,399 Speaker 1: was accidental. So would it accidentally happen now? I don't 30 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: think so. I think I would have to be more 31 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: focused on what I wanted. But also because I'm so 32 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: on technological and things, I mean, I'm just not really 33 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: suited for right now. So probably I would have to 34 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: be like a physicist the band in the game. You 35 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: don't even drive. No, I don't know how to drive, 36 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: so I couldn't do that. That's true. She doesn't have 37 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: a license. I said, you ever live in l A. 38 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: She said, no, I don't swim and I don't drive. 39 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 1: That's true. But if you came in now, you'd be 40 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: a scientist, you said, Well, I I don't know what 41 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: I would be, but I don't think I would have 42 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: a problem no matter where I came in. You know, 43 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: I would figure out something I'm pretty scrappy now. But 44 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: when you say that you weren't a musician, how did 45 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: that begin for you? Well, I mean I came to 46 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: New York in Sevan wanted to be an artist, and 47 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: I also wrote poetry. And after I I just started 48 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: writing more poetry. And then uh was shepherded by people 49 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: like Alan Ginsberg and and William Burrows and Gregory Corso, 50 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: and they all read their poetry. So I wanted to 51 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: read poetry, but I didn't want to be boring because 52 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: I went to a lot of poetry readings and they 53 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: were snoresville. You know, they were like, sorry, but really boring. 54 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: So I just started like, at least have good wine. Wine. 55 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: I didn't even drink, and I don't do anything interesting really, 56 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: but I mean, I'll have a shot at to kill everybody. No, 57 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: I mean no, I never had a drug problem. Um. 58 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: Minutes on that I had a drug problem was no. Actually, 59 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: I was such a sickly kid, um that my parents 60 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: worked so hard to keep me alive that you know 61 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: when I when I came out into the world, the 62 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: last thing I was going to do is fuck that up. 63 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: You know, I just I'm not I don't have a 64 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: self destructive vent. But also when I was a kid, 65 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: my mother was a chain smoker, and she I mean 66 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: real true chain smoker, and when she ran out of 67 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: cigarettes and she didn't have money, she would pace all 68 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: night long. I get up at midnight and see my 69 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: poor mom pacing because she didn't have a cigarette. And 70 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: I thought, then I'm never going to be dependent on anything, 71 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: because I thought, what would happen if you got stranded 72 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: on a desert island you didn't have cigarettes, You'd like 73 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,799 Speaker 1: fall apart. So it was like an early lesson in uh, 74 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: what I didn't wanting a desert cigarettes have to grow 75 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: to back end. And then but I feel like somehow 76 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: I didn't answer one of some question. Oh I know, 77 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: because you're yeah, it doesn't matter. You do whatever you 78 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: want to do. How I wound up singing. I just 79 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: wound up singing, like to make up little singing, little 80 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: songs acapella between poems to make it a little more interesting, 81 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: and then sort of wrapping poems. And it was just organic. 82 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: Somebody just did it on your own. You didn't see 83 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: anybody else doing that, No, I mean I saw like 84 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: be poets or I mean just I think of everybody 85 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: that I was influenced by at that time of my life. 86 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: Johnny Carson was the one I just thought, like, you 87 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: didn't have drug problem either. Yeah, I'm not surprised, but 88 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: I mean, but just the fact that Johnny Carson his 89 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: his his ability to improvise or to get himself out 90 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: of any situation, that was always what I was looking for. 91 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: If I was on stage, gotten a bad situation, find 92 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: my way out of it. You grew up in South Jersey, 93 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: and you're kind of tough. The way you grew up. 94 00:05:58,400 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: Your dad. What did your dad do for a living? 95 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: He was worked in a factory. She's waitress. And how 96 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: many kids in your family? For for how many boys? 97 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: How many girls? Three girls? One boy? And I was 98 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: the oldest. And it was tough, Well yeah, I mean 99 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: it was financially tough. We had. It was in those 100 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: ways very tough. But in another way we had it 101 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: was very magical because I had really great siblings. I 102 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: had a great imagination, read hundreds of books. My parents. 103 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: We knew that they had a lot of strife and stress, 104 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: but you know, it was just the world seems so magical. 105 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: It wasn't so bad for us. Books were my salvation 106 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: and so I I didn't think of things. The only 107 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: bad thing was when I'd be hungry. I mean truthfully, 108 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: I like to eat. I was really skinny and a 109 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: real I was always hungry and that was my big problem. 110 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: Skinny back then, Yeah, really skinny. What do you mean 111 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: You don't believe me? I was. I really were very skinny. 112 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: People think he was being a very thin woman. But 113 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: but but you're saying that, So there was. It was tough. 114 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: Like I remember, I got a I wrote a memoir 115 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: it's coming out in April, and I talked about that. 116 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: Like my dad was a school teacher or six kids 117 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: and they didn't have any money either. It was really 118 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: there was a lot of stress man. Really well, you 119 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: didn't have credit cards and stuff like that. I mean 120 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: it was all like you had cash and you got 121 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, if you didn't have money you didn't need. 122 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: It wasn't like you know, sometimes you could get you know, 123 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: like uh, you know a little credit card at Sears 124 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: or something. You know, but um, it was like you said, 125 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: you have to use your imagination and reading was for me, 126 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: it was like such a huge thing. Your TV back then, 127 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: every don't realize who are young here like TV back then, 128 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, they show a TV on TV, they show 129 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: a movie on like NBC. They had like the Sunday 130 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: Night Movie and they're sure a movie that was you know, 131 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: you've everybody's seen a hundred times. You know, they'd say 132 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: the sound of Music Sunday and like, oh my god, 133 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: We're like run to the TV to watch the sound 134 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: of music on TV, which you know, they didn't have Netflix. 135 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: Three three channels that went off at like either ten 136 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: o'clock or midnight, and uh, you know, and then cartoons 137 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: on Saturday. I I love being a kid. It was awesome. 138 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: And then when you left home, where'd you go? New York? 139 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: I left when I was twenty, and basically I left 140 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: to get a job because in South Jersey and Philadelphia, 141 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: the New York Shipyard closed down and there were like 142 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: thirty thousand jobs overnight were lost and there wasn't any work, 143 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: no matter how low a factory job, nothing, And there 144 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: was no more work, and I needed a job. So 145 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: I went to New York City to get a job. 146 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 1: And where'd you get a job? Um in a bookstore. 147 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: I got a a series of bookstores until I really 148 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: landed a great bookstore job in Scribner's Bookstore, and I 149 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: worked there for about five years. Doesn't it really tells 150 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: a lot about you? That really pretty much sums it 151 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: up your home in Jersey. You can't get a job, 152 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: You're starving. You're going to New York to get a job. 153 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say in a restaurant. Well, 154 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: no idea, soon as you go to a bookstore a 155 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 1: different kind of food. But no, you know what happened. 156 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: My mother was a waitress and she tried to give 157 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: me a job at her counter, but I was so 158 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: clumsy and such a day dreamer, and she fired me. 159 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: And uh so then she was upset that I was 160 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: leaving home, but she got She let me take my 161 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: white uniform and my wedgies. So the first day I got, 162 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: I'm one Time Square, and of course Time Square was 163 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: all different than you know. And uh I got a 164 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: little a job immediately because they needed a waitress at 165 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: a place a little at town in Plays called Joe's 166 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: Um on Times Square. And within like two hours I 167 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: dumped one of the I had a giant tray as 168 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: tripped and the whole tray of veal parmesan as went 169 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: on This woman's tweed suit. Not only was I fired, 170 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: but my three hours pay went to her cleaning bill. 171 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: So I went back to Port authority, left the waitress 172 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: uniform and the wedgies in the girl's bathroom and thought 173 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: maybe somebody can use them. And then I looked around 174 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: for a better job. How does art, poetry, music come 175 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: into your life when you're in New York when you're 176 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: twenty years old, Well, first it was just getting a job. 177 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: I didn't get a job the first or second day. 178 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: I mean I was sleeping in the subway, sleeping in 179 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: uh Central Park, sleeping at the cemetery and Flushing or 180 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: Greenwood or wherever it was and near where Herman Melville 181 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: was buried. And uh, it took a little while. And 182 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: truthfully it wasn't really until I met I met Robert Maplethorpe, 183 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: and uh we met a couple of times. But I 184 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 1: was in a bit of a jam because a grown 185 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: up asked me to go out to eat. He was 186 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: probably forty, but I was like twenty. To me, seemed like, 187 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 1: you know, he was a grown up, you know, And uh, 188 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: I was really afraid that my mother used to say, 189 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: don't go out with a stranger because you know, they 190 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: just want one thing. And I thought, I was so hungry, 191 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: and he said he would take me to dinner, and 192 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: he took me to the Empire State Building diner, and 193 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: I remembered to this day he ordered, uh, we ordered. 194 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: He ordered me swordfish and it was five dollars, and 195 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: I thought, he's going to want everything for five dollars. 196 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: And I was petrified, and so I I ate that 197 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 1: I couldn't even eat it. And I'm so angry I'm 198 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: gonna eat Maybe I should leave now, Yeah, exactly, we're 199 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: not that door. But these potatoes are so good. Of 200 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: just a couple of more potatoes that I'm going to 201 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: write out that door. He'll never know. No, I didn't 202 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: know what to do. Then when we walked, No, we didn't. 203 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: We didn't have any dessert. We walked all the way 204 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: down to uh Tompkins Square Park and we were sitting 205 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: there and then all of a sudden, he said, uh, 206 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: I have an apartment right around here. Would and he 207 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: asked me if I wanted to see It was really creepy. 208 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: He actually had like it's like like a turtleneck, a 209 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: white turtleneck I remember, and a medallion. I mean it 210 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: was really powers. That's so funny. No, he was supposed 211 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: to be a science fiction writer, but I was. And 212 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: when he said that, I thought, oh my god, this 213 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: is the moment, you know, and everything my mother ever 214 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: told me for like ten years of my life. And 215 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: I was sitting there, paralyzed, figuring out what to do. 216 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: And I looked, and I see Robert Maplethorpe coming, you know, 217 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: up through it just coming. It's almost like a cloud 218 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: parted and here he comes, with like long curly hair 219 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: and a sheepskin vest and you know, and his dungarees. 220 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: And I had only met him once or twice, and 221 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: I didn't even know his name, and I just met 222 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: him sort of. And so I ran up to him 223 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: and I said, uh, do you remember me? And he 224 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: goes yeah. And I said, will you pretend you're my boyfriend? 225 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: And he says okay. So I bring him to the 226 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: science fiction guy and I said, this is my boyfriend. 227 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: He's really mad. I gotta go goodbye. And then I 228 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: said to Robert, this is so stupid, but I didn't. 229 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: I said run and Robert and I ran. We ran, 230 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: we ran, we ran a way, and uh and now 231 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: the guy on the turtleneck with the medallion on is 232 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: the president elect of the United States? Boy, did you 233 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: play your cards wrong? You know? And then my life began. 234 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: Life began that night because Robert and I just roamed around. 235 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: We roamed around the East Village and everywhere all night 236 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: long till two in the morning, just talking away. And finally, 237 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: almost simultaneously, we both said, do you have a place 238 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: to stay? Neither one of us had anywhere to live, 239 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: We didn't have any money. But the differences Robert had 240 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: knew some kids of Pratt and he knew he knew 241 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: how to get the key to this one guy's apartment 242 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: where his art was stored. So we went there, and 243 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: we went to his place, and he showed me all 244 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: his drawings and what he was doing. And after that 245 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: night we became inseparable. And that set us, at least 246 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: me on a path, you know where of drawling and 247 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: painting and evolving and writing poetry. And yeah, we've we've 248 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: yes through through many things. Yeah, well I was going 249 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: to get into that, but you're with him for a 250 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: long long time. And then things changed for you as well, 251 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: in terms of your career. Well, I mean, at first, 252 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: I mean, the thing is is that I never cared 253 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: about a career. I have to say, none of those things, 254 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: um being in a business, music, business, career, money. What 255 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: what I always wanted, no matter how conceded it sounds, 256 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: is I wanted to do something great. I wanted to 257 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: write something as great as Pinocchio or The Scarlet Letter, 258 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: or you know, just do something wonderful, write a wonderful book. 259 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: I didn't really care about and don't I don't care 260 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: about having a career or any of that stuff. I 261 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: do my work and in the process, I've had some 262 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: great successes. I've had things that have had me banned 263 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: from the world. I've had you know, I've I've been 264 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: in trouble, I've done you know, I've left it all behind. 265 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: It's not important to me. It's always important to me. 266 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: Is really just to do something good, to do something 267 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: that's uh endoran So when you started to have success, 268 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: was that something that was because it was so unfamiliar 269 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: to you? There are those people who I'm not going 270 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: to say the word failure. They're more comfortable and anonymity 271 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: than they are being successful and famous because it's familiar. 272 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: Did you find that when you were becoming famous as 273 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: a musician, because primarily you became famous as a musician 274 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: as well. At first in the beginning in eight I 275 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: had my first big success with this song I wrote 276 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: with Bruce Springsteen. Because the night I thought it was 277 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: thank you, I thought it was I thought it was 278 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: exciting to have a song on the radio. I didn't 279 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: think of it in terms of success or failure. It 280 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: was just really cool to be on the radio. And 281 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: back then, you know, having a single and meant, you know, 282 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: your records were in the window and and you could, 283 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: you know, you played bigger places and met more people. 284 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: But by nine seventy nine, truthfully, I could see that 285 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: success was to keep going. You I was doing less work, 286 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: less meaningful work, evolving less as a person and an artist, 287 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 1: and just get more successful. And I thought, that's that's 288 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: not why I was put on the planet. I wasn't 289 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: put on the planet to you know, climb the ladder 290 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: of success. I was here to do certain kind of work, 291 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: and so um I left. I left the music business. 292 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: In seventy nine. You separated from Maplethorpe point in well. 293 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: Robert and I separated as a couple in like seventy two, 294 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: but never is we were just the same, only we 295 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: weren't you know, doing it anymore, you know, but we 296 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: didn't change how we were. We were always just the same. 297 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: We were just you know, had different physical partners. So 298 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: we never quite really separated until I got married. And you, 299 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: I would think I read it in an interview where 300 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: you said it was difficult for him to admit to 301 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: his sexuality when he was first Well, I think you know, 302 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: it's people. It was a different time. I mean, Robert 303 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,479 Speaker 1: was brought up Catholic. His mother wanted him to be 304 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: an altar boy, as father wanted him to be in 305 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: the military, and he wanted to be an artist, but 306 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: he was suppressed that to try to at least please 307 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: his father. And Robert got a full scholarship. He was 308 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: very smart. He got a full scholarship to Pratt, a 309 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: military scholar ship. But right before I met him, he 310 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: just decided that that's not what he wanted. He wanted 311 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: to be an artist. He didn't want to be in 312 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: the military. He didn't want to be a commercial artist, 313 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: which is what his father wanted him to do. And 314 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: his um his scholarship was based on on on that 315 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: pursuit and in in saying that he didn't want to 316 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: do that, that he wanted to be an artist. His 317 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: father sort of disowned him. He lost a scholarship, lost 318 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: his dorm, lost his stipend, like overnight. But he wouldn't 319 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: he wouldn't back down. He really, he really believed he 320 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: was He knew he was an artist and that's what 321 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: he wanted to do. And that's at the moment we met, 322 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: he was like he had shed his family, his career, um, 323 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: any financial aid that he had, and to you know, 324 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: to devote himself to art. And I had left my family, 325 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, um my home and come to New York 326 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: to pursue to get a job, but also to pursue 327 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: my path. And we met at a very perfect time, 328 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: and they were with him and still connected to him 329 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: even when he was very second, when he was and 330 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: when he died. Oh yeah, I mean we you know, 331 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: I'm still connected with him. I still think about him 332 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: every day, and the things that I learned from him 333 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: or that we we did together inform the work that 334 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: I do. I mean, we we bonded so young through art. 335 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, you know, we were boyfriend and girlfriend. 336 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: We did all the things young people do but I 337 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: think that is as he felt freer and freer as 338 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: an artist in a human being his nature. First he 339 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: had to come out as an artist. Then the next 340 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: thing that happened is he blossomed and felt his sexual nature. 341 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: We had to weather that. We had to, you know, 342 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: try to navigate what this meant, what it meant to 343 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: our relationship, what it meant and and it was difficult, 344 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: and it took a few years because neither one of 345 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: us wanted to part, But eventually we had to part 346 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: as boyfriend and girlfriend because he had to be who 347 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: he needed to be. When did you meet your husband 348 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: you eventually got married. I met my husband in ninety 349 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: six in Detroit, and I was on the road and 350 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: I met him in Detroit and I saw him. It 351 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: was it's like a it's really like a song. I 352 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: saw him across a crowded room. He was just standing 353 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 1: there and it blew overcoat. I didn't know who he was, 354 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: and I thought, that's the boy I'm gonna marry. I 355 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: swear to you that's true. How old I was about 356 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: seventy six, I was about twenty. I don't know. Did 357 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: you walk up and tell him that right? No? No, no, 358 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: not at all. But Lenny Kay actually introduced us and 359 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: he said, Fred Smith, Patti Smith. We just looked at 360 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: each other and I don't know, and we finally, Um, 361 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: we had a long distance relationship, in fact, because the 362 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: night we had a long distant relationship, and neither one 363 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: of us had a whole lot of money, and to 364 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: make phone calls was expensive, long distance calls I always did. 365 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: This day, I hear people my boyfriend only called me 366 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: three times today, and I think, Jesus, you know, it's 367 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: like I'd have to wait all week to get one 368 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: phone call from from Fred. And um, actually, am I 369 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: going off the course too? There was no core, is 370 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: no course. Yeah, you're my kind of guy. I'm your 371 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: kind of passage. I'm your kind of passenger too, because 372 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: the autopilot about thirty minutes ago. Now, I mean we're 373 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: not going anywhere in particular because I don't know how 374 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: to drive and I have no sense of direction. I'm 375 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: a really good passenger because I can never tell if 376 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: anybody's lost, you know, And I apply that to all 377 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: every part of life. But when you met your husband, 378 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: and what did he do? Was he a musician? He's 379 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: a he was a musician. He played with the MC five. 380 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: He was a master guitarist. He was really one of 381 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,479 Speaker 1: our great guitarist and uh and he's just such a 382 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: beautiful man. You know. We just decided, you know, we 383 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 1: we wanted to evolve as human beings, and he wanted children, 384 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,479 Speaker 1: and we just we just decided to withdrawal from public 385 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: life and really know each other and when when we 386 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: had children, they would really know who we were. And 387 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,719 Speaker 1: and so we did. How long until his he passed 388 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: away and the end of ninety four, so sixteen years, 389 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: so sixteen years. You go off the grid. I hate 390 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: that phrase, but that's that's okay. You go off the 391 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: grid and just what you do come like blowing out 392 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: of you, like in like weird moments like are you 393 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: looking the check outline? And carrots carrots. Actually they didn't 394 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: care who I was, in fact, because I had no 395 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: driver's license. If I wanted to write a check, they 396 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 1: always hassled me because I didn't have the right idea. 397 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: I'd have to bring my passport everywhere. So that was 398 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: Detroit sixteen years. What was it like, did you paint? 399 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: I know I didn't paint, because um, it was just 400 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: the way are living quarters were I didn't really have 401 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: the space to do something like that, but I wrote 402 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: every day. I could have never written just kids or 403 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: the books that I'm writing now had I not had 404 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: sixteen years of enforced discipline, because I've always been very undisciplined. 405 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: And then unless I had a job or something, but 406 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: then having a children, um I had. I had to 407 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: learn to wake up at five in the morning and 408 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: from five to eight was my writing time. Everybody was asleep, 409 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: it was my time. And it was really hard at first, 410 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: but then after a while I got in a groove 411 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,959 Speaker 1: and I still right early in the morning, and I 412 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: really learned how to develop my craft. And uh, it 413 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: was hard because there's no cafes around, there was no bookstores. 414 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: A lot of things, the biggest, the most hardest thing 415 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: is in New York. You can walk out the door 416 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 1: and get a cup of coffee and a out two 417 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: minutes practically anywhere. But where I was, the closest thing 418 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: was seven eleven, which was about, you know, half a 419 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: mile away, so I'd have to every Saturday, I'd walked 420 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: to seven eleven my cafe, get a glazed donut and 421 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: the coffee, and I was I was in town, you know. 422 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: But but I love my life. It wasn't easy because 423 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, I had to do all the we we 424 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: did everything. We didn't have nannie's or housekeepers or even babysitters. 425 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: We did everything. And I'm not the most adept at stuff. 426 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: You know, some of my poor kids, you know, their 427 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: school uniforms and stuff. My daughter's little pleaded, you know, 428 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: Jumper was like always a little jagged e and their 429 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: blouses in their shirts were a little dingier than the 430 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: other because I didn't like using bleach and things like that. 431 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: But but I I love my kids, I love my husband, 432 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: you know. And it was a lot of certain amount 433 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: of sacrifice and and uh, you know, but I was 434 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: talking about you because I just find this so interesting. 435 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: Was there much talk about you, like getting back, getting 436 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: back in there and getting back into your life to 437 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: make money as a breadwinner for everybody's been well, when 438 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: we really really need I always I always feel like 439 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: I got to work all the time. Well, when we 440 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: really needed money, we lived so simply. I mean, we 441 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: never went to Europe. We never went you know, we 442 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: drove anywhere, um that we went when we really needed money. 443 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 1: In eighty six, we did one record together and that 444 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: kept us going. And but it's just, you know, I 445 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: I I liked my life. I never I didn't expect 446 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 1: to be on the great stages of your you know. 447 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: To me, it was really fantastic that I got the opportunity. 448 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: I never thought I would do a record, But in 449 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: doing so, I got to travel, which in I never 450 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: thought I would ever have the money to travel and 451 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: go to Finland, you know. But uh, but I mean 452 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: all the places. I'm just joking, but I did get 453 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: to go to Finland, even though I had never dreamed 454 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: of going to Finland. But I mean I got to 455 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 1: all the places. I saw Paris and Rome and Vienna 456 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: and all these places because I had a band and 457 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: sang and did records. But it wasn't it wasn't my 458 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: focus in life. It wasn't my great great vision. And 459 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: so when I didn't do it, I was grateful that 460 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: I got the opportunity. But I wasn't mourning the situation 461 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: that I wasn't doing it. You know, I wasn't missing 462 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: the applause. It wasn't like a Judy Garland movie or something. 463 00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: I just, you know, I felt you know, really happy writing, 464 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: you know, watching my kids grow. I did what I 465 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: needed to do. I was happy. Oh yeah, I love 466 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: my kids are awesome. And the funny thing is, I mean, 467 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: I'm not embarrassed to say this because my kids know. 468 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,959 Speaker 1: I never wanted kids. I just wanted to be an artist. 469 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: I didn't want to have kids. And I came from 470 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: a big family and I helped raise my siblings, and 471 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: I just wanted to be free. And it was Fred 472 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: who wanted children, and I loved him so much, and 473 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: I thought, well, I can do that, you know I 474 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: But I never expected to just love my kids so 475 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: much and just love being a mother. And since Fred 476 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: died when he was forty five, you know, I have them. 477 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: I have them. I see so much of him in them, 478 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: not just in the way they look or certain gestures, 479 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: but even in their music. The tones of my son's tar. 480 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: He'll be playing a guitar solo. He never heard his 481 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: father play guitar because they were quite young. It's Fred's tones. 482 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: Jesse at the piano, she is just his feel and 483 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: she never heard him play piano, but she has his feel, 484 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: and it's it's awesome to have them as individuals, but 485 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: also how they magnify their father coming up. More from 486 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:36,239 Speaker 1: my live conversation with Patti Smith explore the Here's the 487 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: Thing Archives, where I talked with another musician, one who 488 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: was transformed by the music of Patti Smith. She represented 489 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: something other and something to me alien, and part of 490 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: that was this this um uh openness is fluidity about 491 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: sexuality that I think certainly resonated with me and with 492 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: with millions of other people who are questioning their sexuality 493 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: or or or emerging into something that they weren't familiar with, 494 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: or it's something that wasn't at the time quite accepted 495 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: or acceptable. Take a listen to my conversation with R. E. M. 496 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: Frontman Michael Stipe at Here's the Thing dot org. This 497 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing 498 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: today live from the Mayo Performing Arts Center in Morristown, 499 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: New Jersey, where I sat down with musician and poet 500 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: Patti Smith. Now, when you uh was writing songs for 501 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: you difficult and incredib laborious, did they come to you? 502 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: Were both well, I mean, writing songs isn't my first 503 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: vocation and I I it's I'm not as fast sole 504 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: at writing songs as other things also since I don't 505 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,719 Speaker 1: really only I play a few chords on the guitar, 506 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: so I can figure out some things. But sometimes songs come. 507 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: Songs are so strange. Sometimes they just come as a gift. 508 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: I've woke up in the morning and there's a song 509 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: there and I quick write it down. It just comes 510 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: full with the music and the words. And then there's 511 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: other songs that have taken three years too, you know, 512 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: have a piece of music and write words, but it's 513 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: it's labor songwriting, and there's a lot of responsibility, um 514 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: responsibility to the composer because most of my songs, the 515 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: music was written by a band member or Fred and 516 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: and and so you want to please them. But it 517 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: also has to be something that I can sing. But 518 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: the easiest, one of the easiest things was to write 519 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: um too. Because the night because Bruce, I had a 520 00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: cassette with a it was a demo, and I really 521 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: didn't want to listen to it. You know. It was 522 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: given to me by my producer, Jimmy Ivan, and he 523 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: coax Bruce into let me finish it. Bruce couldn't figure 524 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: out he was having trouble writing verses to the song. 525 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: He had the chorus and Jimmy gave it to me 526 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,719 Speaker 1: and I didn't want to listen to it because I thought, um, 527 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to write. I wanted my band to write 528 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: their own songs. And uh and Bruce is from like 529 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: a different part of New Jersey than me, and he's 530 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: sort of in the middle, and I'm from South Jersey 531 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: and it's like, I really I just didn't want, you know, 532 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:45,719 Speaker 1: and sort of a middle and which don't bring that 533 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: Middle Jersey. I know I'm from New Jersey. It's just 534 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: I'm from like the cooler part of Jersey. But I 535 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: was this is what I was saying before. But one 536 00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: night I was waiting. Jimmy had given me this tape. 537 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: We were doing this album Easter, and every night Jimmy 538 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: would say, hey, listen to the tape, to listen to 539 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: the tape, to listen to the tape, and I said, uh, 540 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: not yet, and he called me up to listen to 541 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: the tape, to listen to the tape. Uh not yet. 542 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: So you know, it was just sitting there in my 543 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: little apartment on McDougall Street, and uh So, anyway, Fred 544 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: was supposed to call me and it was like seven 545 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 1: and I got already I look cool. And I'm sitting 546 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: there and the phone sitting there, and I'm waiting for 547 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: Fred to call, and seven goes by seven thirty. No Fred, 548 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 1: you know, say eight o'clock. I'm pacing around, and you know, 549 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: I was like obsessive, you know, I wanted, you know, 550 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: the phone call, and I couldn't. I was just pasting 551 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: and pasting, couldn't figure out what to do with myself. 552 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: And I noticed this the darn tape, and I thought, 553 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: listen to that darn tape. So I put it on 554 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: my cassette machine and put it on and I listened 555 00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: to it, and it's in my key, perfectly arranged anthemic 556 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 1: has a really great chorus, and I thought it's one 557 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: of those darn hits. It's just yeah, yeah. So I 558 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: listened to it and it was, you know, it was captivating, 559 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: and I'm waiting for Fred and waiting for Fred. Finally 560 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: he calls me up like eleven o'clock at night. But 561 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: when he called me because it took so long, um, 562 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: I had finished all the lyrics to the song. And uh, 563 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: that's why in the second verse that says Lisie, have 564 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: I doubt when I'm alone Love is a ring the telephone. 565 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: I was waiting for Fred to call so and uh, 566 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 1: so I wrote the words and uh and and thanks 567 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: to Bruce, I had my uh my first hit. Um 568 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: now um writing books when you did Us Kids and 569 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: m Train was quite a gap in between those two books, 570 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: But I was writing books difficult for you as well. Well. 571 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: Just Kids was really difficult because I'm basically wrote fiction 572 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: and uh and even though it wasn't in poetry. And 573 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 1: the day before it, literally the day before Robert died, 574 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 1: he asked me too if I would write our story. 575 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: And our story was something that we cherished. It was. 576 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: He used to like me to tell him our stories. 577 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes we didn't have enough food or we were hungry 578 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: and we couldn't go anywhere, and he'd say, tell me 579 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: our story. And so I would start, like a little 580 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: fairy tale, tell the story of how I came to 581 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: New York and how we met. And so I promised 582 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: him I would write it, having no idea how I 583 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 1: would do that, And it took me a really long 584 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: time because also so many things happened. My Fred passed away, 585 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: then my brother passed away, and I had two young children, 586 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: and so it took a long time for me to 587 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: fulfill this promise. But all the discipline, all what I 588 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,720 Speaker 1: had learned in all those years in Michigan really taught 589 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: me how to sustain writing. Finally I got it done, 590 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: and it was it was so exhausting. When I was done, 591 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: I I could hardly write another thing for a while. 592 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: Two things I want to ask you, and then we're 593 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: gonna take some questions I think from the audience. But 594 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: you seem like somebody like I read interviews with you, 595 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: and I I saw clips of you talking to people, 596 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: and and I think the one thing we have in 597 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: common is an appreciation of people that you admire and 598 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: people you worked with and that you liked. And and 599 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: I was wondering when you look back and when you've 600 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: had such a long career and you work around people 601 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: who were these amazing, unique people and during unique times, 602 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: you know, in the sixties and the seventies and so forth, 603 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: and if you can mention just one or two people 604 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: who when you look back now, people you think, man, 605 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: I can't believe I got to know that person, I 606 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: got to hang out with that person. Well, I think 607 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: that just having Alan Ginsberg, William Burrows and Gregory Corso 608 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: as mentors at a very young age, and they really 609 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: did shepherd me. Um and I mean Alan speaking of 610 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: of activism and performance and and serving the people. And 611 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: UH and William in In taught me so many other things. 612 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: How to conduct myself, how to protect my work, um, 613 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: how to try to have a good name. I mean, 614 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 1: they all had their their advice for me, and UH 615 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: and Gregory was so irreverent, you know, just no bullshit 616 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: and both both a romantic poet and UH completely unbridled. 617 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: I just learned so much from these three men. They 618 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: were so different, and they were so unique and their work. Um, 619 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:11,320 Speaker 1: all did such great work. And UM, when I looked back, 620 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: I just sort of went with the flow when I 621 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: was a kid, you know, I just thought, you know, 622 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: they were cool and and they were so helpful. But 623 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,319 Speaker 1: when I when I look back now, it's really with 624 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: a sense of wonder that I came from truly such 625 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: a rural area where you know, there was a pig 626 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: you know, we lived in this little house and there 627 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 1: was a field and then a big pig farm. Across 628 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: the street was a peach orchard, and down the road 629 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: there was a little skate and rink and up the 630 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: road was a little armory where there was school, where 631 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: there were dances with a disc jockey like once a month, 632 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,399 Speaker 1: and there was like nothing there. And how I went 633 00:39:54,520 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: from there and found these guys is uh, you know magical. 634 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: You can't imagine your child and your brothers and they're gone, 635 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: like it's Saturday afternoon. They're like, what do you want 636 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: to do? An the other brothers like, I don't know, 637 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: you want to throw dirt bombs at the pig? Actually, 638 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 1: we would like want to go skating. I want to 639 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: go get some peaches from the orchard and throw them 640 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: at the pig. Let's do that. Let's do that. Actually 641 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: we we. I was taken to court when I was 642 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: levin because I still we we. My dad was on 643 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 1: strike and there was like no food in the house 644 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: and my mother could make really good pie. So we 645 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: snuck over to old man Baker's field and he had 646 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,800 Speaker 1: a peach orchard and they were on watch. My sister 647 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: and brother and I climbed up the tree and I 648 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: was getting peaches and just filling up a basket. An 649 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: old man Baker comes and he comes after us with 650 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: salt rock and a gun, and you know, salt rock 651 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:04,760 Speaker 1: and boy Bernie butt One would have but they got away. 652 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: But he caught me. Then I had to go to court. 653 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: He had a lawyer and he said, you know, I 654 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 1: was a ring leader of the gang. He was up 655 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: there saying that I was a ring leader of the gang. 656 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: I was there with like so skinny, with these long 657 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: straggly braids and my little, you know, blue checker dress, 658 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: sitting there like this, and like he's talking about this 659 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: ring leader you know that did thousands of dollars worth 660 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,439 Speaker 1: of damage, and on and on, and then they had 661 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: me come up in front of and when I had 662 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: to walk up and everyone looked at me, the whole 663 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 1: courtyard burst out laughing. It's like a little house on 664 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: the prairie. No, it's just like I was a kid. 665 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: He used to golf on a local golf course next 666 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: door to our house. We'd sneak out in the summer 667 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: at seven o'clock and all the golfers were gone, and 668 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: we take a pitching wedge and a seven iron and 669 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: a putter and we hit on this hole that was 670 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 1: right near our house. And then and then you're here 671 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: to get them. Go get off of that green boom. 672 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: When you hear all the salt and shoots salt. It's hard. 673 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: It's hard when that's I mean, it doesn't care kill 674 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 1: you or anything, but it is. Bernie. Yeah, he used 675 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: to shoot us with a salt. Now. The last thing 676 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 1: I want to ask you is because I think a 677 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: lot about this too, do I have any scars on 678 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: my butt? Put it in the book the next book, Um, 679 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: to talk to people. I I you know, a big 680 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:34,840 Speaker 1: a piece in my book, not a big piece, but 681 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: an important piece is me talking to people. Is talking 682 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,880 Speaker 1: to myself as a young person, to a young person 683 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,400 Speaker 1: who goes into the arts or goes into theater specifically. 684 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 1: But you really have to develop a muscle to not 685 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: care what other people tell you about what you want 686 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,279 Speaker 1: to do if you have a really burning passion to 687 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: do something. Because life is so short, I think people 688 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: don't read learned growing up how to be happy and 689 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: how to enjoy themselves enough in a healthy way and 690 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: in a reasonable way. That's so nice, you know, because 691 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 1: my my father, he was a factory worker, but he 692 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: was really really intelligent, really intelligent, and once I asked him, um, 693 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: I think I don't know. I was probably in my 694 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,439 Speaker 1: early twenties, what is the greatest thing a person could 695 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,839 Speaker 1: strive for? And I imagined he would give me some 696 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: lofty answer because he was reading Carl Young, and he 697 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: was reading Shakespeare and Aristotle and all these guys in 698 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: the Bible, and he said, you know, the greatest thing 699 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: to pursue his happiness. And it's just when I was young, 700 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: I thought, really, yeah, And now now I do I 701 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: I do get it, you know. And it's like, even 702 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: in these times, in these times, it's seems like the 703 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: most terrible of times, I still try to hold onto 704 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 1: that and remember that that no matter what we have, 705 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: the right, the pursuit of happiness just is our is 706 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: is a right we're born with that. We're gonna take 707 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: some questions. What do we Uh? Are you right here? 708 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: Your hand is raised, Patty. What women inspired you throughout 709 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: your career? Well, that's a simple time. I go all 710 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: the way back. I could start with I loved Madam 711 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: Curie when I was little. I loved Louisa May Outcott. 712 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: I loved Joan of arc I love Dava Gardner, Peggy 713 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: Ann Gardner. Peggy Ann Gardner in In a Tree Grows 714 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:54,720 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. She was awesome and uh and I loved 715 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,400 Speaker 1: Grace Slick, and I loved John Bayaz, and I love 716 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:03,359 Speaker 1: Nina Simone, and I love my daughter. And uh, there's 717 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: a million women. I mean, you know, there's all kinds 718 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 1: of I mean now, lots of really great movie stars. 719 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,360 Speaker 1: You know, Emily or Emma Blunt or Emily Blunt or 720 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: Emma Stone and Kristen Stewart and and all the girl actresses. 721 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,160 Speaker 1: I like them all. You know. I enjoy being a 722 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:30,720 Speaker 1: girl and I enjoy uh, I enjoy the great things 723 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,920 Speaker 1: that girls do. But um, I am partial to Fyllis. 724 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:46,440 Speaker 1: I mean, thank God for that. Must say. I've had 725 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: a million we have we have fifty hands up here. 726 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,960 Speaker 1: We try to go boy girl, boy girl, balcony. Um 727 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,360 Speaker 1: you did. You just sang at the Nobel Prize and 728 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: it was really just a beaut of moving performance. Um. 729 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 1: And I'm as nervous now as you were then. Um. 730 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: But but I was thinking about singing that great Bob 731 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,879 Speaker 1: Dylan song. And I know from reading about Bob Dylan that, um, 732 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,160 Speaker 1: Alan Ginsburg, that was the song where but where Alan 733 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,759 Speaker 1: Ginsburg started to say, this guy really has something. And 734 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,920 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you connected your your friendship with Alec 735 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,879 Speaker 1: Alan Ginsburg with the performance of that song heart Reign 736 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: is Gonna Fall. Well, it would have been a nice thought, 737 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,719 Speaker 1: but truthfully I didn't and I didn't really know that. Um. 738 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,520 Speaker 1: The thing that I connected, a small personal thing, is 739 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,240 Speaker 1: I do have a blue eyed son, and so singing 740 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 1: those words where have you been my blue eyed son? 741 00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:00,160 Speaker 1: Takes me right to my blue eyed son. Also, I 742 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 1: heard it when I was fifteen years old, and when 743 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,360 Speaker 1: I heard that song, I thought, this fella is a poet. 744 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,200 Speaker 1: So I perhaps it's the song that brings those thoughts 745 00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: that it Um. It resonated with Alan Ginsburg, but it 746 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: also resonated with me, a fifteen year old school girl. 747 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: It was like a rombo poem or something. But in 748 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 1: I chose the song because I thought he's winning the 749 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,759 Speaker 1: Nobel Prize for Literature. It was the first song I 750 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,879 Speaker 1: heard of his that I felt that this was a 751 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,479 Speaker 1: poet singing to us. So I went all the way 752 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: back um and chose chose it. From there, we got 753 00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,799 Speaker 1: time for one more. We have somebody with the mic 754 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: now hold on. Please Thank you so much, uh Ms Smith. 755 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,000 Speaker 1: It's an honor to speak with you. As an artist 756 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 1: and art educator. I've used just kids in my classroom 757 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,239 Speaker 1: to basically talk about an artist journey and discovering your path. 758 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,080 Speaker 1: You always do an advice uce to a young artist, 759 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,239 Speaker 1: what immunition would you have to help stockpile that we 760 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: can continue to encourage positivity, creativity and individuality. Well, you know, 761 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,719 Speaker 1: the advice that I have is always very simple, that 762 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:23,800 Speaker 1: you you want to pursue life as an artist. Um. 763 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,879 Speaker 1: Just I could go all the way back to when 764 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 1: we first started talking about Robert Maplethorpe. He wanted to 765 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:35,160 Speaker 1: be an artist and he had to sacrifice a lot 766 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:41,880 Speaker 1: to make that choice. He sacrificed all his all the 767 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:48,399 Speaker 1: all his comforts, the support of his family, his scholarship. Um. 768 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,720 Speaker 1: He sacrificed all of that because he knew what he wanted. 769 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,240 Speaker 1: He had a vision, he felt he had a calling. 770 00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,080 Speaker 1: And when you have that um and and feel it, 771 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,600 Speaker 1: you can't live without pursuing it. Then you have to 772 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:10,000 Speaker 1: do everything that you can um to magnify the gift 773 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,759 Speaker 1: that you have, and it's going to cost you. It's 774 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,840 Speaker 1: you have to be willing to sacrifice. You have to 775 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:22,040 Speaker 1: be willing uh to work really hard. You have to 776 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: be willing to perhaps go years or quite a long 777 00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:32,759 Speaker 1: time without recognition, without acknowledgement, and you have to um 778 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,240 Speaker 1: in the face of all that, maintain your vision as vision, 779 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:44,279 Speaker 1: you know, being being a real artist. And maybe in 780 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,160 Speaker 1: you know, some old fashioned sense, the way I look 781 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,160 Speaker 1: at art it is it is like it is a 782 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:59,000 Speaker 1: sacred quest and uh, it doesn't have anything to do 783 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,120 Speaker 1: with fame and fortune. You can achieve fame and fortune 784 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,880 Speaker 1: in the pursuit of it, because perhaps the stars are aligned, 785 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:16,080 Speaker 1: but that can't be your prime directive. Your prime directive 786 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:22,440 Speaker 1: has to be to do something new, to give something 787 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,319 Speaker 1: new to the canon of art, to give something new 788 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,840 Speaker 1: to the people, and uh, to do something great, to 789 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:36,400 Speaker 1: do something enduring, something inspiring, something that will take people 790 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:42,800 Speaker 1: somewhere they've never been taken. And you have to remember, 791 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:51,560 Speaker 1: you know why you want to create. And so I 792 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:59,960 Speaker 1: just say again, simply hard work and sacrifice happily, because 793 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: if you can't sacrifice with joy, then it's meaningless. And 794 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,800 Speaker 1: if you sacrifice and you maintain your joy and and 795 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:17,320 Speaker 1: your enthusiasm and your curiosity and your ability to work hard, 796 00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:23,160 Speaker 1: you'll achieve something. So that's what I got. We're gonna do. 797 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,719 Speaker 1: We're gonna do this one last one because I'm afraid 798 00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,360 Speaker 1: you're gonna hurt yourself if I don't go right ahead, Patty, 799 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,440 Speaker 1: when you were starting your career, what musicians inspired you 800 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,080 Speaker 1: the most? Well, first of all, I have to say again, 801 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: I never embarked on a career, so you know, my 802 00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,960 Speaker 1: road was so serendipitous that it's not really fair to 803 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,239 Speaker 1: call it a career. But the people that inspired me 804 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:58,200 Speaker 1: the most when I was young were um eleanor Steber, 805 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, uh, Maria Collis, M. Coltrane, Nina Simone, Bob Dylan, 806 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,840 Speaker 1: of course, and Joan Baez, and and then hearing Grace 807 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:14,040 Speaker 1: Slicks sing White Rabbit. I mean, there's so many Neil Young, 808 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,360 Speaker 1: we have so many, there's so many people to be 809 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:22,960 Speaker 1: inspired by. But the animals, you know, they just go 810 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,719 Speaker 1: on and on. But you know, if I had to 811 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,440 Speaker 1: distill it really down, Bob Dylan was really one of 812 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,240 Speaker 1: my greatest influences. I let's have a round of applause 813 00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:45,160 Speaker 1: for Patty's ned. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening 814 00:52:45,160 --> 00:53:01,320 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing makes a fin w