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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week, in

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Speaker 2: the show, we are discussing the surprising arrival of white

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Speaker 2: tails and mule deer to Alaska for the first time

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Speaker 2: in record history. We're also going to be talking about

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Speaker 2: my new film featured on the meter to YouTube channel,

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Speaker 2: all about this question and my Sickle blacktail hunter last year.

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Speaker 2: And finally, we'll be exploring other questions surrounding the changing

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Speaker 2: landscape in Alaska. And joining me is Bjorn Dela and

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Speaker 2: Colin Arisman, the two guys that joined me for that hunt,

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Speaker 2: and two Alaska residents, expert blacktail deer hunters and damn

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Speaker 2: good folks. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast,

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Speaker 2: brought to you by First Life and their cameo for

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Speaker 2: Conservation Initiative. And today we are discussing my brand new

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Speaker 2: film that just launched on the Mediator YouTube channel last week,

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Speaker 2: and a whole lot of very interesting questions that led

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Speaker 2: to me going on this hunt and doing this project. Now,

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Speaker 2: as I just mentioned there at the top, the number

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Speaker 2: one question, the thing that inspired this entire adventure was

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Speaker 2: this rumor that started to pop up a few years

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Speaker 2: ago about white tails possibly showing up in Alaska for

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Speaker 2: the first time ever. When I read about that, I

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Speaker 2: immediately was fascinated. Could this be true? Where were they

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Speaker 2: showing up? Why were they showing up? You know, how

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Speaker 2: was this happening? And what did it mean? What did

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Speaker 2: it mean for the native blacktail deer, What did it

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Speaker 2: mean for other critters around there? What did it mean

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Speaker 2: for me as a you know, whitetail nut myself? All

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Speaker 2: these things we're running through my head at that moment.

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Speaker 2: In the months after I first heard about that, I

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Speaker 2: pitched a big podcast series about this. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: go up to Alaska and search for whitetails and interview

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Speaker 2: people about what was going on and why this was

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Speaker 2: happening and all those questions that I just mentioned to you,

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Speaker 2: And that podcast did not end up happening. But I've

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Speaker 2: been thinking about this idea ever since, and finally last

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Speaker 2: year we were able to put together a plan to

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Speaker 2: do some of those things. The plan was going to

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Speaker 2: be to head up to Alaska to do two things.

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Speaker 2: Number one, talk to some folks there, Alaskan residents about

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Speaker 2: what the reality is in the ground. I was going

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Speaker 2: to speak to someone from Alaska's Fishing Game Department, and

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Speaker 2: then I also wanted to chat with some people who

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Speaker 2: had actually seen some of these deer themselves. And then finally,

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Speaker 2: I also wanted to go and understand, you know, exactly

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Speaker 2: what were white tails showing up into. What was the

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Speaker 2: habitat like in southeast Alaska? How was this different than

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Speaker 2: typical whitetail country, And you know what about the native

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Speaker 2: deer there. I wanted to learn more about blacktails, Sika blacktails,

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Speaker 2: the deer that have been calling this place home for

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Speaker 2: thousands of years. What did that deer look like, act like?

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Speaker 2: You know, how was that going to be possibly impacted

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Speaker 2: by the arrival of white tails or mule deer. This

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Speaker 2: was what I wanted to figure out. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: kind of ground myself in the landscape with these deer

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Speaker 2: to better understand, you know, what all this meant. And

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Speaker 2: so that's what I did. We planned this trip. I

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Speaker 2: talked about it last fall on this podcast. I kind

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Speaker 2: of gave you the play by play of that hunt,

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Speaker 2: and now today what I want to do is take

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Speaker 2: a little bit bigger picture of view at that. I

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Speaker 2: want to discuss those questions in some more detail and

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Speaker 2: some of the answers I found, and I want to

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Speaker 2: talk a little bit more about, you know, what that

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Speaker 2: experience taught me and the folks that joined me on

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Speaker 2: that hunt, and what all of that might point two

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Speaker 2: for the future of Alaska and SIKA, blacktails and wildlife

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Speaker 2: have all sorts. So that is the plan for today.

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Speaker 2: Joining me are the two guys that joined me on

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Speaker 2: that trip. Bjorn Dila is one of those guys. He

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Speaker 2: is an author, He is a diehard blacktail deer hunter.

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Speaker 2: He has done work with TRCP and written many articles

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Speaker 2: for many publications and is a lifelong Alaska resident. And

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Speaker 2: he has seen some of the changes that we mentioned

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Speaker 2: in the film. He's seen them firsthand. He has actually

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Speaker 2: been one of the people that have seen mule deer

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Speaker 2: moving up into these new places, so getting that first

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Speaker 2: hand insight has been very interesting. And then also with

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Speaker 2: me today is Colin Eyersman. He was the camera operator

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Speaker 2: and filmmaker on this.

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Speaker 3: Trip with us.

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Speaker 2: He also is a blacktail deer hunter and someone who's

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Speaker 2: spent a lot of time working on projects related to

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Speaker 2: wildlife and the conservation of wild places, so he's got

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Speaker 2: this really interesting perspective too. So with that said, I

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Speaker 2: think we should get into this conversation about this what

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Speaker 2: I find to be just fascinating topic about how Alaska's

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Speaker 2: changing and wildlife distributions are changing, and white tails are

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Speaker 2: continuously showing up in new places.

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Speaker 3: So if you haven't.

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Speaker 2: Watched this film yet, I would highly encourage you to

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Speaker 2: do that maybe before you listen to this chat. It's

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Speaker 2: over on the media to YouTube channel. The title is

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Speaker 2: kind of a long one, but I think it starts

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Speaker 2: with the question you know white tails in Alaska? And

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Speaker 2: then I think the subtitle is hunting for Answers and

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Speaker 2: black tails in Alaska. So head on over to the

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Speaker 2: media or YouTube channel give that one a watch. I

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Speaker 2: really appreciate it, and I hope you enjoyed this chat.

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Speaker 2: Is we dive deeper into this topic and this adventure.

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Speaker 3: All right with me?

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Speaker 2: Now on the show, I'm joined by Bjorn Dila and

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Speaker 2: Colin Arisman. I almost I almost called you the thing

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Speaker 2: that the arms was calling you. Colin but I didn't,

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Speaker 2: so I caught myself. Welcome, Welcome to the show, guest.

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Speaker 4: Thanks, thanks man.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad we get to have a little reunion here.

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Speaker 2: This is a great excuse to hang out with you

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Speaker 2: guys again after such a good trip last year. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: the plan for.

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Speaker 3: Today is to talk a little bit about that trip. Now.

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Speaker 2: After our black tail hunt last year, I came back

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Speaker 2: and recorded a podcast solo. Uh, you guys maybe saw

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Speaker 2: me post about that or talk about that, but basically

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Speaker 2: it was just me really quick off the cuff, first

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Speaker 2: thoughts on the trip. But during that podcast, I didn't

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Speaker 2: talk at all about, you know, the larger issue that

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Speaker 2: originally brought me there, and that kind of set the

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Speaker 2: theme for our for our time together. So that's kind

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Speaker 2: of where I want to start with this chat, is

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Speaker 2: to is to kind of look at that theme, those

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Speaker 2: first questions I had, and kind of get your as

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Speaker 2: perspective and thoughts on that. Because, as you guys know,

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Speaker 2: what originally started this whole thing for me was four

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Speaker 2: years ago or five years ago something like that. I

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Speaker 2: saw this article that came from Alaska Ficient Game that

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Speaker 2: basically said, hey, white tails might be and mule deer

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Speaker 2: are for sure in the state for the first time,

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Speaker 2: and then there was a whole bunch of kind of

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Speaker 2: announcements they had and related to that, and so ever

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Speaker 2: since then, I've thought, man, I want to learn more

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Speaker 2: about that. I want to get up there and see

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Speaker 2: this area for myself, see what this new possible white

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Speaker 2: tail country could be. And long story short, that led

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Speaker 2: us to spend that time together. We ended up talking

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Speaker 2: to a biologist there in Alaska, Roy Church. Well, you

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Speaker 2: and mc collin, we spent some time together with him

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Speaker 2: and he basically confirmed it for us right that, yes,

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Speaker 2: mule deer are in the state now for the first time.

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Speaker 2: White tails are knocking on the doorstep and possibly probably

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Speaker 2: are in the state. We just don't have one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent confirmation of it yet, but they're they're right there

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Speaker 2: around the very very edge at least. So that is

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Speaker 2: a long winded wind up to me asking you two,

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Speaker 2: what if you guys heard or seen when it comes

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Speaker 2: to these near new deer arriving in Alaska before I

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Speaker 2: gave you guys a call, is that something that was

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Speaker 2: on your radar at all? And I'll let you lead Bjorn,

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Speaker 2: because I think I reached out to you first on

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Speaker 2: this issue. What did you know about this whole thing

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Speaker 2: when I reached out to you first, you know last year?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean I had seen mule deer in the

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Speaker 4: Yukon in twenty seventeen on the Yukon River, which you know,

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Speaker 4: Yukon's right east of Alaska. And then I'd heard of

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Speaker 4: white tails, a white tail, like a straight white tail

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Speaker 4: up and then tier even so, yeah, I was definitely

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Speaker 4: on my radar. I knew they were around Skagway for

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Speaker 4: mule deer, and you know, just to confirm that, right

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Speaker 4: after our trip, my boys and I went up to

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Speaker 4: Anchorage and bought a truck and drove it back to

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Speaker 4: southeast Alaska. And the only animal we saw on the

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Speaker 4: whole drive through interior Alaska and Interier Yukon was a

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Speaker 4: mule deer. So they weren't, you know, they weren't. I

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Speaker 4: can remember maybe twenty sixteen some people in the Yukon

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Speaker 4: being like, hey man, we got cougars. Now they followed

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Speaker 4: them if they followed the deer up, And I was

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Speaker 4: like what, I didn't even know what species of deer

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Speaker 4: there was, just like, yeah, they followed the deer up.

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Speaker 4: There's cougars here watch out. I was like, Wow, that's new.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, what about you, Kellen?

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Speaker 2: What was that something you've been hearing rumors of yet?

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Speaker 5: Uh, there's a rumor that a white tail or mule deer,

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Speaker 5: something that's a non resident got shot up the valley

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Speaker 5: from where I live in Haines, But it's it's pretty

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Speaker 5: loose rumor. What people talk about a lot more where

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Speaker 5: I live is we're right at the edge of blacktail

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Speaker 5: habitat and we will occasionally have citing it's a blacktail

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Speaker 5: on the Chilcat Peninsula just south of Haines, and it

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Speaker 5: just it really shows how these deer on that low

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Speaker 5: elevation snowpack. So we'll have two or three low snow years,

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Speaker 5: the deer population will build up a little bit, and

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Speaker 5: then there'll be a big snow year.

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Speaker 6: They're all going to die off.

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Speaker 5: And you know, whether they're blacktail, white till meal deer,

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Speaker 5: when the years are mild, they're going to explore new

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Speaker 5: places and they're constantly pushing out. And then you know,

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Speaker 5: it's just really interesting how that snowpack and winter is

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Speaker 5: the limiting factor for any of these species.

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Speaker 4: A bit, you're going to have an uptick this year,

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Speaker 4: and yeah, black tail settings as I got them around

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Speaker 4: my house, and you know, normally, after this winter, I

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Speaker 4: mean most winners, you don't see much. And this year

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Speaker 4: is like, you know, I'm seeing more deer.

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Speaker 5: But then Skagway, like Beorn mentioned next town over from us,

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Speaker 5: and I didn't know about it until we were talking

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Speaker 5: with the biologist Mark, but it was fascinating to hear

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Speaker 5: how many mulis have been down around Skagway and we're

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Speaker 5: you know, thirty minutes from there by air, so they're

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Speaker 5: going to be, uh, what's happening in Skagway is going.

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Speaker 6: To happen where I live, probably right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So so what Roy was telling us and what you know,

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Speaker 2: further research and study of my part has confirmed as

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Speaker 2: I started looking into other sources on this, was that,

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Speaker 2: you know, as that snow and as these winters are

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Speaker 2: becoming more and more mild, these deer are moving you know,

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Speaker 2: up from Canada farther and farther north into Canada. So

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Speaker 2: there's a number of studies coming out of Canada where

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Speaker 2: they're really seeing this, where they are seeing you know,

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Speaker 2: whitetail deer especially becoming you know, more and more of

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Speaker 2: a northern boreal species when historically they weren't, and they've

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Speaker 2: been going up through river bottoms, and there's been some

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Speaker 2: debate around if some of this has been due to

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Speaker 2: land use change, because there's also been you know, further

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Speaker 2: development occurring farther and farther north or pushing northwest across

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Speaker 2: Alberta and British Columbia heading towards Alaska. And so one

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Speaker 2: of the theories was that well, as there's been more development,

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Speaker 2: logging or roadbuilding or something like that, you know, that's

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Speaker 2: creating new edge habitat and suitable habitat for white tails

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Speaker 2: and other deer two. So that possibly could be part

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Speaker 2: of what's going on as well. But a couple of

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Speaker 2: studies looked at this specifically, looking at all the different

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Speaker 2: changes and what lines up the best with where white

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Speaker 2: tails are showing up now and and climate change changing

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Speaker 2: climate weather systems and the corresponding you know, ability for

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Speaker 2: white tails to survive there has been the biggest thing.

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Speaker 2: And you guys had both, you know, while we were

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Speaker 2: up there talking shared with me a number of different

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Speaker 2: changes you guys have seen. Jorn being a lifelong Alaska resident,

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Speaker 2: you had a lot that you could point to as

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Speaker 2: far as the changes you've seen just over the course

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Speaker 2: of your lifetime, can you speak to some of that?

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Speaker 4: Uh, you know, I guess yeah. I mean the big

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Speaker 4: one that hit me was I spent a lot of

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Speaker 4: time on glaciers when I was younger and more spry,

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Speaker 4: and what would always shock me is I'd have the

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Speaker 4: USGS maps from seventies most of those, and then I'd

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Speaker 4: have my GPS and you'd be on the exact same

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Speaker 4: point on the glacier, but you'd be three hundred or

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Speaker 4: four hundred feet lower and You're just like, that can't

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Speaker 4: be right. So that that was my initial thoughts before,

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Speaker 4: like all this, it's like these maps are off or

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Speaker 4: this GPS is broken before you know, climate change back

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Speaker 4: then was only kind of just starting to get talked about.

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Speaker 4: And then since then, I mean, the extent of how

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Speaker 4: fast our glaciers are melting is insane. I live right

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Speaker 4: next to glacier. The deepest piece of ice in North

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Speaker 4: America is twenty five miles as the crow flies from me,

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Speaker 4: and so just having that front view of how fast

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Speaker 4: these glaciers are melting, you know, going through an ice

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Speaker 4: field with a map, and then I'll be like I'm

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Speaker 4: on the wrong glacier because there's a mountain ride in

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Speaker 4: front of me. And then you get the cord and

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Speaker 4: its's like, you know, I'm then exact same spot this

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Speaker 4: mountain wasn't map because it wasn't there thirty years ago.

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Speaker 4: The ice has melted whatever or was eight hundred feet

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Speaker 4: to reveal this eight hundred foot tall, mile long un

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Speaker 4: attack wo so that that the glacier rice is huge,

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Speaker 4: just seeing how fast that's melting. And you know, every

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Speaker 4: paper that I read is always like, well, actually we

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Speaker 4: were too conservative, and how fast these glaciers are melting.

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Speaker 4: They're actually going to be gone faster than the last

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Speaker 4: paper said. And another thing, just from commercial fishing for

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Speaker 4: ten years around northern southeast Alaska, just seeing the changes

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Speaker 4: in the ocean with the salmon that that's been you know,

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Speaker 4: I kind of got that the last heyday of King salmon.

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Speaker 4: Even then it was like, you know that the guy

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Speaker 4: fished with for most of that time, you know, he'd

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Speaker 4: been fishing since the seventies, and he was like, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, there's not necessarily we said, there is less kings,

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Speaker 4: but they're just much smaller too. And then during the

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Speaker 4: next ten years of fishing, was like, man, there's just

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Speaker 4: less kings every year. And then you know our two

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Speaker 4: biggest rivers in Alaska, the Yukon and cusco Quinn. People

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Speaker 4: can't fish salmon there and they've been fishing salmon for

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Speaker 4: ever because there's just not salmon there anymore. So those

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Speaker 4: two are like and I could go on and on

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Speaker 4: and on and on, but those are the two ones

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Speaker 4: that just like, can't you can't ignore those living here,

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Speaker 4: I mean, because salmon and glaciers are such a part

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Speaker 4: of everyday life here.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, what have you seen, Colin.

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Speaker 2: You're a little bit newer to Alaska, but have you

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Speaker 2: been seeing or hearing from other folks anything related to this?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I get to travel around the state quite a bit

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Speaker 5: working on phone projects, and I think the most striking

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Speaker 5: stuff recently for me is just talking to people who

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Speaker 5: live in communities in the Arctic. And my my friend

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Speaker 5: works on a research related to studying trees moving north

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Speaker 5: into the tundra. And you can't have a more striking

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Speaker 5: example than that, Like, you know, in the last five

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Speaker 5: years seeing trees growing, forests are beginning to grow in

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Speaker 5: places that haven't had them. I mean, it's wild and

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Speaker 5: the permafrost is melting fast enough. The rocks that are

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Speaker 5: in underneath the soil that have been locked up in

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Speaker 5: the ice for thousands, hundreds of thousands of years, they're

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Speaker 5: coming in contact with water for the first time, and

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Speaker 5: they're literally releasing acid rock drainage, which looks like rust.

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Speaker 5: So crystal clear rivers that have had salmon runs have

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Speaker 5: had great grayling fishing are now having these events where

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Speaker 5: just like this, toxic water flushes through them. And so

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Speaker 5: these aren't just you know, the seasons changing a bit.

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Speaker 5: These are like the entire ecosystem is changing in these

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Speaker 5: wild ways, and there's no doubt that's related to climate change.

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Speaker 5: Where I live, I haven't been there super long, but

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Speaker 5: we have a house and Haines and I really like

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Speaker 5: to back country ski and talking to folks. Fifteen years ago,

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Speaker 5: you could reliably ski from sea level. We had a

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Speaker 5: solid snowpack all winter long down at sea level. You

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Speaker 5: could ski up to the tops of the mountains. And

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Speaker 5: this spring there's basically, you know, zero snowpack most of

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Speaker 5: the winter down at sea level, and that's just it's

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Speaker 5: a crazy change in fifteen years. I feel like a

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Speaker 5: lot of the folks I talk to, you know, around

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Speaker 5: the state. It's twenty ten. It is very different than

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty five in terms of what you can do

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Speaker 5: and what's happening with the ecosystems.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny.

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Speaker 2: So much of this h this climate related stuff gets

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Speaker 2: muddied up with politics and people get weird about it

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Speaker 2: because of that. But when you simply look at your

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Speaker 2: lifetime of outdoor experiences and what you've seen, and how

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Speaker 2: things have changed these days, even for someone down in

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Speaker 2: the lower forty eight, it's getting harder and harder to

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Speaker 2: deny what we're seeing. And now, you know, here in

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Speaker 2: Michigan where I am right now, things aren't quite as dramatic.

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Speaker 2: I feel like when you head west, you start seeing

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Speaker 2: things even more starkly with the increased fire season and

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Speaker 2: the loss of snowpack and the warming rivers and all

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Speaker 2: of that that's becoming really hard to ignore. But then

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Speaker 2: when you go up north to where you guys are,

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Speaker 2: where you know, the rate and the severity of change

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Speaker 2: is dramatically increased compared to the you know, other parts

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Speaker 2: of the country because those those changes are more severe

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Speaker 2: near the poles. You know, when you hear from folks

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Speaker 2: like you guys who are just seeing this massive level

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Speaker 2: of change that's not just like something you see, but

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Speaker 2: changes ways of life, you know, whether it be commercial

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Speaker 2: fishermen or native peoples up there who depend on these

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Speaker 2: salmon runs, or you know, hunters and anglers who are

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Speaker 2: seeing the critters that they hunt either disappearing or moving

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Speaker 2: farther north, or interacting with the new species. That that's

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Speaker 2: pretty compelling to me when I hear that kind of thing,

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Speaker 2: Because you know, talking head on the news, that's one

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Speaker 2: thing that's that's easy to say, I forget it. But

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Speaker 2: when you hear from someone who's just a hunter wrangler

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Speaker 2: like I am, who is in a brand new situation

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Speaker 2: then they were twenty thirty years ago, I can't ignore that.

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Speaker 2: At least you were telling me, Bjorn, that that moose had.

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Speaker 4: Been moving into new areas.

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Speaker 2: I've heard about beaver's moving farther and farther north as

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Speaker 2: those forests head north, right, and that's changing ecosystems. What's

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Speaker 2: another one? You said that fishers have been showing up

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Speaker 2: there by you.

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Speaker 4: Bjorn, we got influx of fishers. We didn't have those,

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Speaker 4: you know, fifteen twenty years ago, I think maybe twenty

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Speaker 4: years ago I saw my first track of a fisher.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean there's all sorts of stuff, and

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Speaker 4: the you know, some of them are really bad, like

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Speaker 4: what's happening with unglitz. A lot of the ungulate species

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Speaker 4: up north with these rain events that were getting in

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Speaker 4: these freezing rain events in the winter, and you know

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Speaker 4: that's hurting a lot of caribou populations. The sheep, all

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Speaker 4: sheep are like those big snow, warm events, rain events

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Speaker 4: all times.

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Speaker 5: That whole herd in western Alaska of sheep got wiped out.

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Speaker 4: Well east, Yeah, I mean I can remember first trip

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Speaker 4: in the Brooks Rangers, just like, man, there's sheep on

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Speaker 4: every mountain. This is awesome. And then I you know,

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Speaker 4: I remember going I think there was a big brain

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Speaker 4: snow event a couple of years later, and I came

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Speaker 4: back and I was like, oh, well, they're significantly less sheep,

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Speaker 4: same area. And then five years after that, more of

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Speaker 4: that stuff, and I don't see any sheep and fifty

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Speaker 4: miles you know, or maybe I saw one little herd

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Speaker 4: where before it was like every mountain has I heard

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Speaker 4: a sheep on it? So it's it is just you know,

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Speaker 4: politics aside. It's you can't be here and not you

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Speaker 4: know if you if you've been here and you're paying attention.

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Speaker 4: It's just like it's it's more than knocking on your door.

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Speaker 4: It's in your living room. Literally where I live, not

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Speaker 4: we're getting these glacial outburst floods. It was from climate change.

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Speaker 4: And I mean, I don't know how many houses got

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Speaker 4: flooded near where I live last year, and we don't

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Speaker 4: know what's gonna happen next year. It's gonna happen every year.

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Speaker 4: Keep so a glacial damn outburst. It's usually there back

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Speaker 4: up in the ice field, and I live right on

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Speaker 4: the edge of the Juno ice field. You'll get like

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Speaker 4: a kind of like a glacial lake. All the snow

395
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Speaker 4: melt and rain will fill up in the lake. And

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Speaker 4: then every year this didn't happen before, but just due

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Speaker 4: to the glacier rapidly receding, it formed this kind of

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Speaker 4: lake reservoir thing. Then every year that that ice dam breaks.

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Speaker 4: In the last couple well probably five years, but it's

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Speaker 4: getting significantly larger. So last year, I mean, I don't

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Speaker 4: know how many calling you might remember you're nearby, it

402
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Speaker 4: was something like a hundred houses got flooded, you know,

403
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Speaker 4: people lost, and yeah, it was huge, you know, and

404
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Speaker 4: it's just like we Yeah, you have that sort of

405
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Speaker 4: scenario that anyone who questions climate change, you know, you

406
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Speaker 4: literally have that happening. It comes in. Yeah, so it's it's.

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Speaker 6: Very real, you know.

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Speaker 3: When we're up there on the Mountain Jorn. One of

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Speaker 3: the things you mentioned was, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, how how nature has never been static, rights, It's

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Speaker 2: always been changing. There has been periods of climate change

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Speaker 2: over the course of the Earth's history numerous times. Right,

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Speaker 2: But something's you know, really different right now, and people

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Speaker 2: like to bring that up. People say, well, the earth

415
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Speaker 2: climate has always been changing, therefore we should not be

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Speaker 2: worried about what's happening right now, or there should be

417
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Speaker 2: no impetus put on us to do anything about it.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the arguments that you'll hear from people

420
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Speaker 2: who want to deny it or diminish it. But a

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Speaker 2: really important thing to note is that these previous periods

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Speaker 2: of climate change occurred over tens of thousands, if not

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Speaker 2: millions of years, right, They were very slow. When you

424
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Speaker 2: look at the timeline of the Earth. The change we're

425
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Speaker 2: seeing is similar actual amounts of change, but we're seeing

426
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Speaker 2: it in one hundred years versus one million years, and

427
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Speaker 2: so what that means is that these wildlife species that

428
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Speaker 2: historically some were able to adapt and evolve to deal

429
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Speaker 2: with that change, Now when you're getting a rate of

430
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Speaker 2: change like that in one hundred years, you know, these

431
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Speaker 2: critters can't keep up. And then on top of that,

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Speaker 2: you also have the incremental impacts of everything else that

433
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 2: we humans are doing to wildlife, so whether that be

434
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: habitat change or other forms of pollution, or you know,

435
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: our own incremental take and harvest, or you know, fragmentation

436
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 2: of it.

437
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: To add all of these.

438
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: Many many, many different human caused impacts stacked on top

439
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: of this much much faster rate of climate change than

440
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: while ever used to, you know, that's why you see

441
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 2: so many critters really struggling now, more so than they

442
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 2: ever had before. And that's why you know, the climate

443
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: impacts at this point are are so much more concerning

444
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 2: than you know, the historical periods that.

445
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 3: Some of these species have seen.

446
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: Now that's not to say that some of these historical

447
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 2: climate change events still did knock out a lot of

448
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: species even without humans, So you can't you can't. You

449
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 2: can't just kind of wish this thing away and say, well,

450
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: it's natural, no worries.

451
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 4: Well, I think even if you know, even if you

452
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 4: believe it's natural, and like we we have had glaciation

453
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 4: periods and then warming periods. I can't remember how many

454
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 4: we've had in the last two million years, but it's

455
00:24:54,920 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 4: been you know, more than just a couple. Are this,

456
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 4: whether you know, you believe we are contributing to it,

457
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 4: we still got it. Like, as a society, we need

458
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 4: to start getting ready for what we may be facing.

459
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 4: And I think that's where it's really like, you know,

460
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 4: we really need to be listening to scientists. We really

461
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 4: need to be thinking about a future plan because it

462
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 4: you know, it doesn't matter whether or not you believe

463
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 4: it or not it's or if we're contributing to it. Ultimately,

464
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 4: we still need to be prepared for what's going to happen.

465
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,479
Speaker 4: And like, you know, a lot of the native folks

466
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,479
Speaker 4: here and you know, one of the big stories is

467
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 4: this great flood that happened in southeast Alaska, and you

468
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 4: know it a lot of people died. And whether that

469
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 4: was some giant glacial damn outburst somewhere during a colder period.

470
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 4: I don't know, but like that is a story you

471
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 4: hear a lot a good buddy of mine who's a storyteller, Like,

472
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 4: that's a story. He keeps coming back to how many

473
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 4: people died, People ran up the mountains, all the bears supposedly,

474
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 4: you know, surviving bears, and people kind of competed for

475
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 4: whatever little resources they could find. So, you know, regardless

476
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 4: it's happening, as a society, we need to start thinking

477
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 4: preparation for how we're going to deal with this.

478
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: What's your guys' sense of what that preparation or willingness

479
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 2: to adapt is. At least there in Alaska, are are

480
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: folks around you, your friend's family, other people in the community.

481
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 2: Are are people recognizing what we're talking about and and

482
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: coming to terms with that?

483
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 4: Bjorn?

484
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 2: Or is this something that even there by you people

485
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: are trying to debate or nor?

486
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 4: I mean, you will meet some people that want to debate,

487
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 4: but it's, you know, ultimately kind of just a waste

488
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 4: of time. And I think a lot of us, myself included,

489
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 4: are guilty of just feeling like, oh, I'm so small,

490
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 4: I can't do anything. This is such you know, Nature's

491
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 4: so big, and I mean, what do you do to

492
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 4: you know, how do you how do you counter this?

493
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 4: But I think, you know, anyone living in the Arctic,

494
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 4: like Colin was saying, is like you can't be like climate.

495
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 4: You know, anyone up there is like as obvious and.

496
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's no ideology is not gonna ideology doesn't how

497
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 5: you see it. It's just it's interesting. Like the farther

498
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 5: you go north, the more it's just a ubiquitous like

499
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 5: answer that hey, this is this is what's happening.

500
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 4: So I guess my my one thing is like I

501
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 4: don't know about you, Colin, but I don't Yeah, I

502
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 4: don't know. Like it's like people I don't hear a

503
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 4: lot of people in Alaska being like we can do

504
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 4: this to stop it. I Don'm not trying to be doomsday.

505
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 4: I mean, this is how nature works. It's dynamic. Like

506
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 4: we talked. I'm not saying we should just go pollute

507
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 4: everything and drive you know, F three fifties everywhere and

508
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 4: leave them modeling. But it's not that's not really a

509
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 4: conversation I've had with other Alaskans or you know that

510
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 4: you know, like down south, I feel like there's a

511
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 4: lot of people who are like, we can stop this

512
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 4: or we're all going to die. In Alaska, it's like

513
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 4: it's just it's just happening, and people are trying to

514
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 4: do their best to adapt.

515
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 5: So, yeah, the tribal government in the community I live

516
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 5: in is undertaking a year long process called a Climate

517
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 5: Adaptation Plan, So they're basically going to look at the

518
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 5: climate impacts to harvest, dying and safety and way of

519
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 5: life for the community and then develop mitigation strategies within

520
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 5: the community. I mean, that's it's I think, really forward thinking,

521
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 5: and we're going to be supporting some of that with storytelling.

522
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 5: So I think that I'll learn a lot through that,

523
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 5: and I think they're going to be doing a lot

524
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 5: of work in our region that hasn't been done before.

525
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 5: And I think in terms of, you know, how I

526
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 5: try and make a difference in my life, I think

527
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 5: we've been kind of hoodwinked with this idea that our

528
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 5: personal choices, you know, turning off the lights is the

529
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 5: way we're going to deal with climate change. And I

530
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 5: think a lot of those strategies actually came out of

531
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 5: the oil lobby and to kind of pressure people that

532
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 5: make change little changes in their personal life rather than

533
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 5: push for big systems changes, which is really where things

534
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 5: are gonna get reshape from. And so I try, and

535
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 5: you know, I think it's obviously important to do those

536
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 5: small things, but I think we've been kind of conditioned

537
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 5: to thinking that like changes, you know, not driving your

538
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 5: car when it's the you know, question is a lot

539
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 5: bigger around how does the grid work? And what is

540
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 5: our infrastructure options? And so I think just being being

541
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 5: engaged and curious and learning about that stuff and how

542
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 5: you can contribute to policy changes in your community or

543
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 5: in your state is really important.

544
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 6: And then as a person in Alaska, I.

545
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 5: Think a way we can make it different is to

546
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 5: try and protect places that are going to be vulnerable

547
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 5: to the changes. And a friend of mine, Roman Dial,

548
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 5: who's a climate researcher who's walked seven thousand miles across

549
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 5: the Brooks Range in this lifetime studying this stuff, he

550
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 5: talks about how the you know, the Arctic is in

551
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 5: Alaska is so large that it's going to be able

552
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 5: to absorb these changes in a way that other places

553
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 5: can't because it's not fragmented, it's not heavily degraded by development.

554
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 5: And I think That's a really cool wave of thinking

555
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 5: about it. If you give an ecosystem space, it will

556
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 5: be able to adapt, it'll be able to heal itself.

557
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 5: But the ability of a place or cover is really

558
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 5: impacted when you start putting roads through it and start

559
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 5: heavily developing it with human impact. So I think keeping

560
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 5: these big chunks of the state, like the Tongus or

561
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 5: like parts of the Arctic intact where they the natural

562
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 5: eCos some processes can continue. That's something I put a

563
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 5: lot of energy into train to be part of those movements.

564
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. Another biologist said to me just the other day,

565
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 4: how there's never a good time to fragment caribou range,

566
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 4: but now we're talking about the ambler rode specifically up

567
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 4: in the Arctic. But now now is the worst time

568
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 4: to be fragmenting, you know, wildlife habitat. With all these

569
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 4: rapid changes, they've already got enough stressors going on.

570
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, So so to that point, you know,

571
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: there're another study that I've read a good bit about

572
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 2: has taken a look at all of the documented population

573
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 2: shifts across the world, and there are this there's a

574
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: rapid not rapid, there is a mass shift of wildlife

575
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: population distribution north, it really is towards the pole. So

576
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,479
Speaker 2: for in the southern hemisphere, some of these pieces are

577
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: moving south, but here in the northern hemispone, they're moving

578
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: north to cooler, more you know, better suited habitats for species,

579
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 2: and then up in elevation as well. So when possible,

580
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: you know, critters are going to adapt to whatever changes

581
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 2: are happening. Problem is that, like you guys just said,

582
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: especially in the lower forty eight where there's more and

583
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 2: more development, oftentimes your habitat is fragmented or blocked, or

584
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 2: you've got these islands of habitat created by development and roads, businesses,

585
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: industrial corridors. All these different things are keeping species from

586
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 2: being able to adapt in the ways that they might otherwise,

587
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 2: as they can in many parts of Alaska. So yeah,

588
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 2: there's all of these different ripple effects of this stuff,

589
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: and then you've got everything else compounding. So it's like, oh, yeah,

590
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: there's this climate thing, but then there's also this habitat fragmentation.

591
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: There's also development, there's also energy extraction, there's also invasive species,

592
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: there's also pollution. There's all of these different things that

593
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: are impacting the wildlife that we like to watch or hunt,

594
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: or that feed our families or whatever it is. Your

595
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: connection is to to to wild animals.

596
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 3: But let's talk about one of those animals. That's blacktails.

597
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: Of course, you know, the idea of white tails showing

598
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 2: up in black tail country is what got me interested

599
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: in black tails. But you guys have been diehards for

600
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: much longer than me. You've been flying the black tail flag.

601
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: What makes blacktails special to you?

602
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 4: Bjorn?

603
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: Why do you care so much about this species?

604
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 4: I mean, sick of black tails for me is always

605
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 4: like home. You know, that's like that's the animal. It's

606
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 4: always reminds me of home. You know. I can remember

607
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 4: my dad when I was really little, you know, coming

608
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 4: home with sick of black tail, and that was always

609
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 4: what we ate and always you know, listening to stories

610
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 4: about hunting, just you know, so badly wanting to hunt,

611
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 4: go hunt. And you know, for me, other people it's

612
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 4: like probably you Mark, He's like, man, you just dreamt

613
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 4: about hunting white tails growing up. I dreamt of hunting

614
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 4: sick of blacktails. Yeah, and then yeah, and then just

615
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 4: you know it's like here, we're so lucky where I live.

616
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 4: We have like a good healthy, stable population of sick

617
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 4: of blacktails, and we're allowed to take quite a few

618
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 4: animals enough to feed the family for all all years.

619
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 4: So it's so for yeah, for me, it's and it's

620
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 4: just what bonds honestly, me and my brothers together. You know,

621
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 4: that's that's kind of that hunting connection is what's kept

622
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 4: us close all these years. And you know, everything from

623
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 4: going through the brush as you saw when we went

624
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 4: to get into the top of the mountain, the butchery

625
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 4: and the animal to sharing it with family, that's always been,

626
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 4: you know, such a special and important part of my life.

627
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: So I gotta I gotta commend you when in the film,

628
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 2: when we were editing the film, we ran across this

629
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 2: little rift that you had where you talked about, how

630
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 2: you know, going through the jungles of the tongus were

631
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: kind of a metaphor for for like the darkness of

632
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: your mind and then when you break out of it

633
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: into the alpine. How you know, that's that's kind of

634
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: like heaven for you. Ah, did you spend days and

635
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 2: weeks planning that ahead of time to get that line

636
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 2: just right or did that actually come to you in

637
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: the moment, because that was so damn good.

638
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 4: Oh thanks, I thought it was a little cheesy. Uh,

639
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 4: It's something I've always thought because you know, the other

640
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 4: the other side of the coin in growing up in

641
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 4: Southeast Alaska's it's dark, it's rainy, it's isolated. So a

642
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 4: lot of a lot of people here feel kind of like, man,

643
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 4: I'm kids, especially, like I want to get out of here.

644
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 4: But the truth is like, once you get in the woods,

645
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 4: it's a whole different story. And some like a lot

646
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 4: of people are scared of the woods because they're so

647
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 4: dark and tangled. And but you know, for me, I

648
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 4: can remember early on as a kid like teenager, you know,

649
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 4: hating everything about life. But then going into the woods,

650
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 4: going hunting and going through the woods, and all of

651
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 4: a sudden you're getting up to the alpline. It was

652
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 4: just like this epiphany for me, it was like, holy moly,

653
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 4: this is this is what it's about. Like I've been

654
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 4: stuck down in the fog, and I'm above the fog

655
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 4: and I can see and I see how amazing life is,

656
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 4: how amazing all this stuff is. And then gradually, over

657
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 4: time I just learned to love the deep, dark, tangled

658
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 4: woods as well. But you know, for me like getting up,

659
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 4: So that's like kind of that was kind of my

660
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 4: origin story as far as like being whoa, this is

661
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 4: life is actually really cool when you get out of

662
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 4: the darkness and the fog.

663
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I can. I can attest it proved

664
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: true on my visit there for sure. What about you, Kellen,

665
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: You you were singing blacktails praises a lot while we

666
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 2: were spend some time together. I believe you said there

667
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: by far or at least you know, you said that

668
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 2: this specific kind of hunt was your favorite in the world,

669
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: or the blacktails specifically, regardless of where they were, it

670
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: was your favorite. But something like that's true.

671
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah? Absolutely.

672
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: Well.

673
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 5: I grew up in Vermont, and I didn't grow up

674
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 5: in a hunting family, but I knew I wanted to

675
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 5: hunt since I was like seven, So I just, you know,

676
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 5: school hard knocks, wandering around in the woods trying to

677
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 5: still hunt white tails in Vermont. Needless to say, I

678
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 5: never got a buck, and it wasn't until my early

679
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 5: twenties when I moved out to Washington State I got

680
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 5: into still hunting blacktails with bow and got my first

681
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 5: couple deer and just going from white tails to blacktail,

682
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 5: like seeing that bubble increase a little bit, like blacktails

683
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 5: are an animal you can still hunt on the ground

684
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 5: in a way that it's just really hard with whitetail,

685
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 5: And I think that really helped me fall in love

686
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 5: with them was just I found this little patch of

687
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 5: old growth outside Seattle, and I'd like walk between the

688
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 5: clear cuts and the old growth, just you know, I'd

689
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 5: spend all day covering two thousand yards just creeping through

690
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 5: these big old trees and it was an awesome experience. And

691
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 5: eventually I just realized that I wanted to see what

692
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 5: Washington State looked like before it was heavily logged, and

693
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 5: that's kind of what brought me to Southeast Alaska and

694
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 5: then had some really cool early hunting experiences with blacktail

695
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 5: during rut and just the way you can call blacktail

696
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 5: in bringing bucks in with the call, and it's super exciting.

697
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 5: So I think, you know, the experience of hunting blacktails

698
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 5: and the rut is super different than the alpine experience,

699
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 5: and I love both of those ways of hunting them.

700
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 5: They're totally different, though, But yeah, learning to blow the

701
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 5: call and seeing deer charge in is a pretty incredible experience.

702
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 5: In November and the alpine thing. It always feels harder

703
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 5: to fit alpine hunts in in the summer for me,

704
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 5: but we usually make it up high a couple times

705
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 5: a year in August, and it's a I think you

706
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 5: said this in the in the film, but it's uh,

707
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 5: it's very different than a rut hunt, where there's a

708
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 5: little bit more strategy, a little bit more skill involved.

709
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 5: Like if you can make it up physically into the alpine,

710
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 5: you have a pretty good shot at getting a buck

711
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 5: if you're if you're up there.

712
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 6: In prime time.

713
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 5: So it's just an incredible experience to get up to

714
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 5: three thousand feet and you're in a big meadow with

715
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 5: the rainforest below you. You can usually see all the

716
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 5: little islands and water stretching out below you. And on

717
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 5: a good day you can get up there at sunset

718
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 5: or sunrise and look out and see you know, handful

719
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 5: of bucks feeding together. I mean, I think they're living

720
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 5: the best days of their life when they're up there.

721
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 5: I think you can feel that that the animals are

722
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 5: just happy, and you can and feel safe, like if

723
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 5: you're a wild animal that gets chased around by wolves

724
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 5: and you're up there and you've got all the food

725
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 5: you want. Like they're living there, they're living their best

726
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,439
Speaker 5: life up there, and it's cool to just be around it.

727
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, when we were on top of that peak looking

728
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 2: down into that last kind of amphitheater where all those

729
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 2: deer were there before we took a shot that was

730
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: pretty like Edenic just seeing so many Deerly the film,

731
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 2: the cut doesn't even really show just how many deer

732
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 2: were in that that kind of bowl. There were so

733
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: many deer spread all throughout. Some you know, there was

734
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: the two sparrings, some were bedded, some were feeding, some

735
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 2: were just milling around. I mean it was really like

736
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 2: a It was quite the miniature serengetti there laid out

737
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 2: in front of us.

738
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 3: That stood out to me.

739
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I also should for listeners. I mean,

740
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 4: we were in a remote spot and you know where

741
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 4: I usually hunt, it's it's not like that. You know,

742
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 4: it's like the bucks are creeping at the oil plane

743
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 4: and whatnot. So we had, you know, we had a

744
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 4: fantastic zone where those those deer hadn't been touched and

745
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 4: they're that way like on the opener, and then after

746
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 4: that they they definitely get pretty pretty creepy. So yeah.

747
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 2: So so other than that, Bjorn, what what stood out

748
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 2: to you about our trip? You know, you saw the film,

749
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: you lived the thing yourself. When you look back on

750
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: that hunt, what what what were your thoughts in the experience.

751
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 3: Was it pretty standard?

752
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 2: Did anything seem special or particularly interesting to you? Or

753
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 2: is this just another just another day as a black tailer?

754
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 4: Well, I think I told you Mark. There was this

755
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 4: this bear hunt guy named carl Lane, and there was

756
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 4: a picture of him on top of the mountain we

757
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 4: went on that Grandfather Trail, that's where the bears walk

758
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 4: on the same spot, so over you know, decades, hundreds

759
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 4: or in some cases honestly thousands of years, and there

760
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 4: was that picture. As a kid, I saw of Carline

761
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 4: on top of the mountain next to that Grandfather Trail,

762
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 4: and I've just always been you know, that was such

763
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 4: like as a little kid, You're like, oh man, that's

764
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 4: what I want. I want to be there, so for me.

765
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 4: And then Carlaine was huge in keeping the island we

766
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 4: were hunting from being completely eroded and clear cut. He

767
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 4: brought a case against this to the Supreme Court and

768
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 4: you know, fought like ten years before that Island was

769
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 4: turned you know, designated wilderness monument. So for me it

770
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 4: was always like I never knew Carl. I knew other

771
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 4: guides who hunted, you know, the other guides who hunted

772
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 4: underneath him. The young guides are now old men, So

773
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 4: I never knew Carl, but I knew a couple of

774
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 4: different guides who hunted underneathneath him. So it's for me

775
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 4: it was just a really special experience to be like, yeah,

776
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 4: it wasn't. Because we had a bit more budget than

777
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 4: you know, I have on like my personal life. We

778
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 4: were able to go to that mountain, and for me

779
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 4: it was really special just to be up there on

780
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 4: that trail, and I thought it was really cool to

781
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 4: even thinking of the context of you Mark being like,

782
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 4: you know, you shot that deer like three four yards

783
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 4: from that Grandfather trail where carline the picture of Amazon.

784
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 4: I was like, Wow, that's that's some pretty powerful stuff

785
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 4: when I think about this, you know, guy who fought

786
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 4: so hard in the seventies for bear deer and hunters

787
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 4: and anglers of the future. Then you hear you are

788
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 4: shooting you're deer right off that trail, I thought, Man's

789
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 4: that's a really special moment.

790
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, that's pretty incredible. What about you, Kellen?

791
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 2: What what were your thoughts.

792
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 5: I mean, anytime you can get up there, I think

793
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 5: you're going to look back at the end of your

794
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 5: life and count all the days, all the trips you

795
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 5: got got to go up in the alpine like that

796
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 5: and super special.

797
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 6: I think the first alpine I had where we got

798
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 6: up and blew my mind.

799
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 5: I didn't know what I was in for, and it

800
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 5: definitely changed how I was thinking about my life and

801
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 5: getting older. And you know, I'm in my mid thirties now,

802
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 5: but I it's like, I gotta gotta start taking care

803
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 5: of myself, like I, this is uh. I don't have

804
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 5: kids yet, so I'm sure when you have kids you

805
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 5: start thinking about it that way. But it was like, no,

806
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 5: I need to do this every year until you know,

807
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 5: I'm seventy or something. It's that important to me. So

808
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 5: to have the opportunity to go up there for work

809
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 5: is incredible.

810
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 6: It's awesome, man, And.

811
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 5: You guys are the right people to do it with too.

812
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 5: Like I, it's actually special enough to me. I don't

813
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 5: want to go up there and do those hunts with people.

814
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 5: I don't that don't have the same philosophy on it,

815
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 5: like it's a special thing.

816
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 6: I don't want someone to take it too lightly. So

817
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:38,959
Speaker 6: that meant a lot. I think you brought you brought

818
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 6: the eight Spirit to him.

819
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 4: Mark.

820
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I uh, I would say right back at

821
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 3: you guys.

822
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 2: You were the perfect companions to introduce me to a

823
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: place like that. I appreciate so much the sense and

824
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: the knowledge of the history that you guys had, and

825
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 2: it was so great for me to get to be

826
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 2: with youeople who understood not just the history of it,

827
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 2: not just the qure we we're after, but also kind

828
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: of like the the story of the landscape and the ecosystem,

829
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 2: and you know, current and past threats to these deer

830
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: in that place. And I found all of that really interesting.

831
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 2: I love you know, I'm not the idea of just

832
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 2: going somewhere and just shooting an animal is not terribly

833
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 2: appealing to me. What's what's appealing to me is going

834
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 2: somewhere and immersing myself in that landscape as as best

835
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 2: as you possibly can, and learning all about and understanding

836
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: the context. I think you know, to to hunt and

837
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 2: kill an animal, it's not just a trigger pull. It's

838
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 2: not just that meat in the freezer. It's it's kind

839
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 2: of the full experience becomes what you bring home with you,

840
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 2: those stories, the history, the understanding of that place and

841
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: and what it means, and all that I brought home

842
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 2: with me. And a lot of that is because because

843
00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 2: you guys were great teachers. So I I consider myself

844
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 2: very lucky that I got to have not just an

845
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 2: incredible opportunity to be in Alaska to hunt and harvest

846
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 2: a blacktail deer, but to do it with two people

847
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: who had a lot to share along the way.

848
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 3: That, uh, that was pretty special.

849
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: That that said, though, uh, sick of blacktails, Let's let's

850
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 2: talk about them a little bit more specifically as far

851
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: as how they're doing. How are blacktails doing in southeast

852
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 2: Alaska right now? And what's what's the future look like?

853
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 4: Jorn? Uh, Well, we were hunting the ABC Islands and

854
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 4: right now, I think you know everyone, those islands are

855
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 4: more intact, there's you know, there definitely are some white

856
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 4: swa swaths of clearcuts, and unlike in the lower forty eight, uh,

857
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 4: clearcuts clear cut logging prevents present some problems for our

858
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 4: sick of blacks up here and One of the big

859
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 4: problems is we do have these big snow events. So

860
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 4: when we have a big snow event, and especially in

861
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 4: areas that have had a lot of clear cut logging,

862
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 4: they don't have that those big trees winter habitat trees

863
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 4: to protect them from the heavy snowfalls, and so we'll

864
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 4: have these huge die offs, and I've seen them. I

865
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 4: mean it's tremendous. It goes from you know, after a

866
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 4: year of a big die off. You know, we'd see

867
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 4: like we saw like what thirty deer, forty deer in

868
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 4: a day. We'd see like a dough for lucky, same

869
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 4: same mountain. You know, you know where you hunt hard

870
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 4: all season. I've had, you know one season where I

871
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 4: hunted hard all season and I did not get a buck,

872
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 4: which you know, I usually have my freezer totally full

873
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:56,720
Speaker 4: of deer meat. So you know, in the ABC Islands

874
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 4: we're doing pretty good. Unit two and you at three

875
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 4: has some more problems. Unit two is Prince of Wales

876
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 4: and Unit three is are Central Islands, and there are

877
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 4: you know, every zone's different and every zone has different

878
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 4: dynamics and every year is different. But kind of the

879
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 4: bigger thing that we've seen is when we have these

880
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 4: big clearcuts. One. You know, they actually do offer feed,

881
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 4: like more feed for deer for the first thirty years,

882
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 4: but if you have a big snow event, you have

883
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 4: a massive die off. Another thing. After thirty years or so,

884
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 4: the forest centers stema exclusion. That's where basically all these

885
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 4: spruce trees grow up so close they block out light

886
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 4: so you have no understory. And and here because we're

887
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 4: colder then like somewhere like Washington, the forest can be

888
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 4: like an a stemic exclusion for like well over a

889
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 4: century before it becomes decent wildlife habits had again. So

890
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 4: people like the Mule Deer Foundation and the New Blacktail

891
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 4: Foundation are really pushing for you know, in the past

892
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 4: we've for logged areas where we've just done commercial thinning,

893
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 4: and they're pushing for wildlife thinning, which is like, you know,

894
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 4: you still can go back and log the second girls

895
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 4: at some point, but it just takes a little more

896
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 4: time and you can create more habitat that's more appropriate

897
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 4: for sick of blacktails. So you know, here some people

898
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 4: in Prince of Wales, you know, and that's where most

899
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,439
Speaker 4: of the hunting pressure is. Most people go to Prince

900
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 4: of Wales because there's so many roads from the logging

901
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 4: operations there. The people, you know, also recognize that they're

902
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 4: just one bad snow year away from losing their deer.

903
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 4: And that's what happened in the Central Islands where there

904
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 4: should just be deer everywhere. But the Central Islands had

905
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 4: a massive amount of clear cut logging in the fifties

906
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 4: and sixties up in the seventies, and then that was

907
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 4: followed by this mass couple of year winter dumps of snow,

908
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 4: so that and you know, you can't you also do

909
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 4: have to factor in just that heavy snow. When you

910
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 4: get the heavy snows, that's when the wolves like just

911
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 4: go to town, like they can't hunt that well when

912
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 4: they don't have good snow. But when they have good snow,

913
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 4: you know, that combination of not having feed wolves, predation,

914
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 4: weaker unglits. You know, then the neonates get hammered by

915
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 4: the black bears. So this combination of logged big winners

916
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 4: predators created this dynamic. My best understanding because I fall

917
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 4: I've you know, looked in at quite a bit in

918
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 4: the Central Islands basically where there should be deer everywhere,

919
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 4: Like people weren't really able to hunt for decades or

920
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 4: they were allowed like one buck a year and I'm

921
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 4: allowed six where I'm at, And it's starting it seems

922
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 4: like it's starting to get a little bit better in

923
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 4: some of the areas in the Central Islands, but still

924
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 4: there's just no there just should be deer everywhere. And

925
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 4: just because you know, the massive clear cut logging, big

926
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 4: Winner and predators just kind of all contributed to a

927
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 4: massive die off. So, you know, going into the future,

928
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 4: it's just like, I think we just got to think

929
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 4: how we're going to do these logging you know, logging all,

930
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 4: you know, have a more holistic approach to logging. That's

931
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 4: something that you know, I think a lot of us

932
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 4: calling me feel passionate about. We definitely want, you know,

933
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 4: there to be a logging industry, sports small mills, but

934
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 4: we just want it done in a way that is

935
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 4: conducive to wildlife. And it can be done. That's the thing,

936
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 4: can one hundred percent be done. So we're hopeful that

937
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 4: that is what we the direction we can go.

938
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 2: So, so to oversimplify, is the desired method moving forward

939
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 2: to not do these wholesale clear cuts like they've done

940
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 2: in the past, and then secondly to do this wildlife

941
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: thing for second growth versus something else. Would that be

942
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 2: the oversimplified.

943
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 4: Well, these whole thought, these huge you know, clearcuts are

944
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 4: still the best way for foreign corporations to make money.

945
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 4: You know, it's one and done sort of deal. And

946
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 4: that was like, you know, we had like they're like

947
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 4: Asian corporations in the fifties and sixties that were doing

948
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 4: most of the logging. The pulp mills were owned by

949
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 4: like Japan and I don't know where else. So on

950
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 4: a local level, like I'm calling in my in most

951
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 4: Southeast Alaska's perspective, there's just like we would like it

952
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,760
Speaker 4: to just be done in a way that benefits locals.

953
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like if you want to build something here, the

954
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 5: lumber is getting shipped up on a barge from Seattle,

955
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 5: super expensive, and it's cheaper to buy locally milt lumber.

956
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 5: But we don't have local programs in place that incentivize

957
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 5: and support logging production for our communities. So you know,

958
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,439
Speaker 5: the log it's crazy like locally and the wood comes

959
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,879
Speaker 5: up from Seattle and then the wood that's clearcut here

960
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 5: is sent down south, and we just want to be.

961
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 6: The community for the community.

962
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 5: And you know, our friend, my friend Gordon Chew is

963
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 5: one of the only people logging on this small scale.

964
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 5: He cuts previously clearcut areas thirty forty years after the

965
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,839
Speaker 5: clearcut he's going back into bring down second growth, thin

966
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 5: out the stands. So he takes you know, two out

967
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 5: of three trees, one out of three trees creates space.

968
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 5: He's making the forest healthier, but he's also dropping some

969
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 5: really nice straight wood that's come up and he's selling

970
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 5: that for a good price in the community. But it's

971
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 5: super hard for them. It's not something that the force.

972
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 5: So even though he's doing a service for the community,

973
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 5: for the ecosystem, he's doing the model we all want

974
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 5: to see, there's so many roadblocks in place for him.

975
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 5: So I think we need to see programs that facilitate

976
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 5: that sort of second growth thinning logging operation and make

977
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 5: it easier for people and subsidize that work.

978
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,879
Speaker 2: So then, what's your guys' take on some of the

979
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 2: proposals and executive orders and things we've seen here in

980
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 2: the last couple of months related to logging. I've heard

981
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 2: word of the roadless rule being rescinded in the Tongus

982
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 2: National Forest again subsidizing dramatic increases in logging across parts

983
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 2: of our national forests. Does that concern you or does

984
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 2: that sound okay, we need more logging. What's the read there?

985
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 2: And you did a great film all about the Tonguus

986
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 2: and these issues, Colin. I know you've got a lot

987
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 2: of background on this.

988
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, just as a starting point, I think it's really important.

989
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 5: It's very different than the lower forty eight. So I

990
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 5: think just making it clear to folks, like when we

991
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 5: talk about large scale logging operations in the Tongus in

992
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 5: southeast Alaska, we're talking about cutting high quality old growth

993
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 5: and there's not that much of it left. So this

994
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 5: is not we're not talking about tree farming. We're not

995
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 5: talking about, you know, a productive cycle where every thirty

996
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:16,439
Speaker 5: forty years we recut these stands. Like I'm a I'm

997
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 5: for tree farming. That's great. We don't have that economy

998
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 5: anywhere in Alaska. So the only stuff that pencils out

999
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 5: for a large scale timber sale is these last high

1000
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 5: quality stands old growth, which are just as important as

1001
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 5: the black tail deer. So we're basically just fighting over

1002
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 5: scraps at this point, you know, most of that, most

1003
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 5: of this high quality old growth that has a lot

1004
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 5: of value has been cut already, and the stands that

1005
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 5: are left are either really important to communities or they're

1006
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 5: in really remote places, and it's just it increases the

1007
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 5: ecological importance of these last stands. So when we see

1008
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 5: you know, these administration changes where stuff comes back on

1009
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 5: the chopping block, it's all hands on deck, you know,

1010
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 5: try and try and delay, try and pause, try and

1011
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 5: block it, because this stuff isn't when they clear cut

1012
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,799
Speaker 5: these these old you know, eight hundred year old stands

1013
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 5: that are our critical winner blacktail habitat. That stuff doesn't grow,

1014
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 5: it will grow back, it'll come back in thirty years,

1015
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 5: though it's just not it doesn't provide those opportunities to

1016
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 5: the community or to wildlife, and it's not going to

1017
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 5: provide those for several hundred years. So it's just like

1018
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 5: when we get in these conversations with folks who maybe

1019
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 5: don't see eye to eye with us, I think it

1020
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 5: often comes down to people are.

1021
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 6: Like trees regrow.

1022
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 5: This is a sustainable resource, and it's just it might

1023
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 5: be a tree that regrows, but it doesn't provide the

1024
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 5: same services it's not the same force for hundreds of years.

1025
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 4: And the realm this rule is what would for deck

1026
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 4: is remaining stands of old growth for us. And you know,

1027
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 4: Colin's completely right. I can't remember what the percent of

1028
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 4: what we have left of old growth even in southeast Alaska,

1029
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 4: those really productive old growth stands that are whatever the

1030
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 4: tree trunks, you know, wider diameters, and so the road

1031
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 4: this rule will protect those old little scraps of of

1032
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 4: what we have left. And we still have like five

1033
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 4: thousand plus miles of logging roads in the Taugas, you know,

1034
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 4: and it's like we're all for the Gordon Chew operation,

1035
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 4: you know, like that's what we want, and we don't

1036
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 4: want those big corporations subsidized. We want the We want

1037
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 4: the small logging operations that utilize existing roads that.

1038
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 3: Are going anyways infrastructure.

1039
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 4: The road this rule doesn't hinder development except for the

1040
00:57:55,560 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 4: development of billion new roads to access those remaining bits

1041
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 4: of super ecologically productive old growth. For so it's it's

1042
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 4: like there's there's no reason to get rid of that

1043
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 4: road in this rule besides benefiting bigger corporations. And sure,

1044
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 4: I'm sure the road this rule, like you know, maybe

1045
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,919
Speaker 4: we'll slow down some of the smaller guys in certain ways,

1046
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 4: but we need to work around that, like we just need,

1047
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 4: you know, to work to the Yeah, we just need

1048
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 4: to work so that the smaller guys can can work

1049
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 4: and you can use five thousand miles of existing road

1050
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 4: and all these second growth stands that need to be thinned.

1051
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 4: We need to build our economy around that.

1052
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 5: The road pieces is super interesting, Like going back comparing

1053
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 5: the lower forty eight to here, this is we're talking

1054
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 5: about putting roads on islands or in bays, places that

1055
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 5: have never had roads before, they've never had access to machinery,

1056
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 5: and it's it just changes a place in a really

1057
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,959
Speaker 5: fundamental way. And so that's pretty fascinating. You can't really

1058
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 5: go back from adding roads.

1059
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 4: To a place.

1060
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 6: It's just a different place.

1061
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 5: And the way we paid for these roads has been

1062
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 5: large federal subsidies, which is super interesting as well. And

1063
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 5: you know, it's I'm all for cutting federal waste and bloat,

1064
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 5: and I think a good way to start with that

1065
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 5: is to not subsidize logging operations. If these logging operations

1066
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 5: are profitable and makes sense, I think, you know, the

1067
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 5: the old economics need to line up. We shouldn't be

1068
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 5: spending federal money to open these places up and not

1069
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 5: retaining any of that profit in the region. I think

1070
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 5: the last piece with roads that's really interesting is the

1071
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 5: way they open up travel corridors to predators, and I

1072
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 5: don't think that's talked about enough. And you know, blacktail

1073
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 5: deer very acceptible to predation from bears and wolves, and

1074
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 5: part of that's because we've created pathways for these animals

1075
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 5: to cover a lot of ground quickly. Particularly wolves like

1076
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 5: deer have their advantage over wolves in thick tangled country

1077
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 5: like you saw that there, they slip through things that

1078
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 5: are very hard to move through, and that's not terrain

1079
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 5: that's is conducive for a wolf. But when you give

1080
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 5: them a gravel pathway that they can get in their

1081
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 5: super efficient trot and just cover ten grounds following a

1082
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 5: cent trail, it's a huge advantage and I think that

1083
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 5: really changes the predator prey balance.

1084
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's funny.

1085
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 2: You know, over the last couple of years, I've been

1086
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 2: working on this book that's coming out next year and

1087
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 2: been studying issues impacting fish and wildlife across America for

1088
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 2: the last two hundred plus years, and what's funny is

1089
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 2: that we see the same things happening over and over

1090
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 2: and over again. A lot of these things happen in Europe,

1091
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 2: and they happen on the East coast of America, and

1092
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 2: then they started pushing the Royal West, and then we

1093
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 2: saw them happening in the Rocky Mountain interior, and then

1094
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 2: we saw them happening on the West coast. And we

1095
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 2: continue to make the same mistakes.

1096
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 3: Over and over and over again.

1097
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 2: And all of those same mistakes have you know, scratched

1098
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 2: the surface here and there in Alaska. But in many

1099
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 2: ways we've maintained a pretty good stronghold there in your guys'

1100
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,439
Speaker 2: home state, but it's not immune to any of these

1101
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 2: same risks and challenges and economic pressures and developmental pressures

1102
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 2: and all that.

1103
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 6: Seems like.

1104
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 3: We still haven't figured it out.

1105
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 2: I still feel like the same things that we've seen

1106
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 2: happen time and time and time and time and time

1107
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 2: again are still being discussed as things that should happen

1108
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:00,919
Speaker 2: there in Alaska. And you would think, and you would

1109
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 2: hope that in this last place we could maybe try

1110
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 2: a different way. And it's it's shocking and disappointing how

1111
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 2: few people seem to agree on that front, but uh,

1112
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 2: we still have a hell of a thing. They're worth

1113
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:19,919
Speaker 2: worth caring for and stewarding. And I'm thankful that there's

1114
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 2: people like you guys there now. They're just living there

1115
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 2: and enjoying it, but also standing up for it too.

1116
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:30,439
Speaker 2: So uh, yeah, Alaska, I'm glad it's there. I hope

1117
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 2: my kids will get to see it in just as

1118
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 2: incredible shape as it is right now, because it's awfully

1119
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: special for sure. What would what would you guys leave

1120
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 2: folks with if you were to have a call to

1121
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 2: action of any kind for people listening today, whether it's

1122
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 2: you know, related to blacktails or any of the other

1123
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 2: things we talked about today, what's uh, what's something you

1124
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 2: want folks to do coming out of this conversation?

1125
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 4: Jorn? I mean, you know this is all you know,

1126
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 4: public land, public wildlife, this is all. Call it our resources,

1127
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 4: call it our heritage. You know, this is this is

1128
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 4: all yours and ours unless yeah, man, pay attention. We

1129
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 4: all got to make a living, but we don't have

1130
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 4: to make a living in a way that you know,

1131
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 4: kills what we love. So yeah, i'd say, you know,

1132
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 4: if you haven't inn too Alaska. You come up here,

1133
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 4: take a look, whatever you do, will you know, it's

1134
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 4: be a great trip. But yeah, truly special place and yeah, man.

1135
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 3: Any thoughts in your front.

1136
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 5: Uh, not to get political, but I just encourage people

1137
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 5: going into the midterms do your research on different you know,

1138
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 5: don't you don't have to vote down party lines like

1139
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 5: with just take the time. There's going to be resources

1140
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:59,439
Speaker 5: for hunters and anglers. You know, in your state, there's

1141
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 5: going to be specific issues that different politicians are going

1142
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 5: to have different stances on. And nationwide, I think we're

1143
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 5: just looking at large the potential for large scale transfers

1144
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 5: of land from the federal government to the state level,

1145
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 5: and depending on the state, like if we have big

1146
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 5: you know, there's potential two million acres of the Tongus

1147
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 5: could get transferred to the state and the state will

1148
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 5: manage that land very differently than the for Service has

1149
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 5: And what that would look like would be aggressive clear

1150
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 5: cutting without any of the kind of safeguards we see

1151
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 5: with for Service clearcuts. So we've gone out to these

1152
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 5: places and they cut right down to the beach, they

1153
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 5: cut right down to the river.

1154
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 6: I mean it's like a bomb.

1155
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 5: Went off and we're just we're super nervous about that.

1156
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 5: So I think just if people feel it's hard to

1157
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 5: feel like anything matters politically right now, it just things

1158
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:08,479
Speaker 5: are blown up and it does matter though, And there's

1159
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 5: we're we're going into time. We need to really really

1160
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 5: decide what we want the future of our public lands

1161
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:15,200
Speaker 5: to be.

1162
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 6: And I think, you know, get informed before the midterms.

1163
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And and let anyone who is seeking election

1164
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 2: or reelection let them know that this stuff really matters

1165
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 2: and that if they want your vote, they better get

1166
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 2: right on this stuff. And and like you said, callen

1167
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 2: transfer or sale of public lands. It's not gonna fly

1168
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 2: with hunters and anglers, uh, you know, extraction without any

1169
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 2: care for doing it in a balanced way that protects

1170
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 2: wildlife habitats still in clean water and clean air. It's

1171
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 2: not gonna fly with hunters and anglers doing There's there's

1172
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 2: so many, so many examples. We gotta we got to

1173
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:56,919
Speaker 2: stand up for these things.

1174
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 5: A positive example is Montan hunters are outspoken and they're

1175
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 5: amazing conservationists, and they've made it clear those political suicide

1176
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 5: to give away public lands in Montana and the Montana

1177
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:16,120
Speaker 5: Danes and representatives senators there, they're some of the only

1178
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 5: Republicans coming out against this stuff right now, and it

1179
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 5: really really shows if you stand up, make it clear

1180
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 5: this is just a lion in the sand. Well, we

1181
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 5: still support you, but this is off the table like that,

1182
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 5: this stuff makes a difference. It's really heartening to see

1183
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 5: that across party lines, that stuff's not going to fly

1184
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 5: in Montana.

1185
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 4: Yep. Yeah, that's a really good point. Just to add

1186
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 4: a little bit to that. You know, I've talked to

1187
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 4: so many people over my lifetime that were like, a

1188
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 4: trip to Alaska is the dream of their life. You know,

1189
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 4: it's that's the dream trip, whether it's to hunt caribou,

1190
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 4: whether it's to see a brown bear, whether or whatever.

1191
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 4: And just you know, so you know, have your make

1192
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:59,560
Speaker 4: your voice known for Alaska's future too, because it is

1193
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 4: it's the trip of a lifetime. You can't you can't

1194
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 4: undermine how important this is for our here outdoor heritage,

1195
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 4: for hunters and anglers. So it's you know, this is

1196
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 4: the dream. Let's keep it that way.

1197
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 2: So here here, Well on that front, gentlemen, I will

1198
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 2: thank you again for your time here today, for the

1199
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 2: time we spent last fall. It was It was a

1200
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 2: hell of experience and I can't wait for the next one,

1201
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:28,919
Speaker 2: which which I think is gonna be happening here soon.

1202
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 3: So more on that to come.

1203
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 6: Thanks guys, looking forward to it.

1204
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, all right, that is going to do it

1205
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 2: for us today. Thanks for being with me this week.

1206
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 2: I appreciate you checking out this film, tuning into this conversation,

1207
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 2: and being a part of this community. So until next time,

1208
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 2: stay wired to Hunt.