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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing, day forty one, the

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Speaker 2: very latest in the search for Nancy Guthrie, an eighty

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Speaker 2: four year old beloved grandmother. Plus do we have a motive?

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Speaker 2: If we have a motive, can we id the kidnapper?

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Speaker 2: Straight out to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter, what

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Speaker 2: about it, Dave Nancy.

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Speaker 3: We know that over the last couple of weeks there

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Speaker 3: had been zero press conferences done by Sheriff Nanos, but

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Speaker 3: he has talked to some media one on one, not

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Speaker 3: really having to answer questions, just softball stuff for him

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Speaker 3: to share what he's thinking. And he actually, Sheriff Nanos

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Speaker 3: actually came out with some stuff on the NBC Nightly

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Speaker 3: News that was actually pretty scary, scary for the community,

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Speaker 3: scary for all of us who have been watching this

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Speaker 3: story unfold. But here is Jeff Nano on NBC Nightly News.

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Speaker 4: We believe we know why he did this, and we

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Speaker 4: believe that it was targeted, but we can't. We're not

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Speaker 4: one hundred percent sure of that, and so it'd be

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Speaker 4: silly to tell people, yeah, don't worry about it, you're

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Speaker 4: not as targeted. Don't think for a minute that because

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Speaker 4: it happened to the Guthrie family, you're safe. No, keep

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Speaker 4: your wits about you.

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Speaker 3: So Nanos is now saying we believe she was targeted,

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Speaker 3: we know the motive. Nobody is safe, but that's it,

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Speaker 3: not giving us any specifics. I guess the biggest problem

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Speaker 3: we have with all of this is why is it that,

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Speaker 3: after this long of a period of time, are we

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Speaker 3: just now telling everybody you're not safe. We thought from

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Speaker 3: the very beginning targeted going after Nancy Guthrie, the obvious

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Speaker 3: connection to our daughter Savannah, being very high profile, with

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Speaker 3: the Today Show being local in Tucson for a number

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Speaker 3: of weeks prior to the kidnapping. I mean, there was

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Speaker 3: a lot going on here that was all very very

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Speaker 3: specific to Nancy Guthrie. Now, even though Sheriff Nanos is

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Speaker 3: not telling us there's anything specific, but saying that others

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Speaker 3: could be at risk.

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Speaker 5: That's a shocking beginning to the news.

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Speaker 3: One has to wonder if Nanos is using this as

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Speaker 3: an opportunity to take some of the attention away from

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Speaker 3: the resume and why he left El Paso back in

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Speaker 3: the day.

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Speaker 5: It's all I can think.

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Speaker 1: Of now too.

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Speaker 2: Brian Fitzgibbons joining us Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security, leading

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Speaker 2: a team of investigators around the world, including extractions from

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Speaker 2: Mexico finding missing people former marine Iraqi war that.

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Speaker 6: Brian way In, I like to separate signal from noise,

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Speaker 6: meaning you know, on radio traffic, you get good signal

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Speaker 6: and then you get noise.

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Speaker 7: That clutters that message from coming in.

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Speaker 6: I have to interpret this as noise coming from Sheriff Nanos.

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Speaker 6: He's made statements in the past that have gone hot

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Speaker 6: across the presses, and then he's walked them back time

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Speaker 6: and again. This isn't yet another one. That's very confusing

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Speaker 6: to say we have a motive. The public isn't safe

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Speaker 6: yet Earlier he said this was targeted directly to Nancy.

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Speaker 6: So if we take it at face value, this is

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Speaker 6: very concerning, right, because it means that there's an individual

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Speaker 6: or a group of individuals that are directly targeting wealthy,

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Speaker 6: elderly citizens in the Greater Tucson area. I don't believe

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Speaker 6: that that was Nanos's intention. My hope is that he

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Speaker 6: misspoke and that this didn't come across correctly.

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Speaker 7: But hey, there's no playbook.

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Speaker 6: For what Nanos has been saying here, it seems like

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Speaker 6: he's shooting from the hip in these press releases and

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Speaker 6: in these media engagements and causing quite a bit of

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Speaker 6: confusion with the point right.

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Speaker 3: One of the things that we have been following all

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Speaker 3: along blood deposition on the front entryway and inside the house,

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Speaker 3: but the security of this site. From the very beginning,

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Speaker 3: we know that when Nancy Guthrie's family shows up to

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Speaker 3: check on her, they came going to assume they came

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Speaker 3: into the home. They didn't just stand outside in the

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Speaker 3: driveway and say, oh, we don't see mom. So we

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Speaker 3: know that they went into the house. We probably can

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Speaker 3: assume a neighbor or two was there as well, you know,

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Speaker 3: as they were trying to figure out where she was.

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Speaker 5: But the scene was not secured.

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Speaker 3: After twenty four hours, we even know that a pizza

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Speaker 3: delivery guy showed up at the front door.

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Speaker 5: How corrupt is that DNA or.

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Speaker 3: How usable will it be as this investigation before, because

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Speaker 3: Nanos is suggesting the case will be broken by DNA

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Speaker 3: chain of evidence on the DNA on the front porch.

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Speaker 5: What's going to happen with all of this?

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Speaker 7: You know, I have to if we take a step back.

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Speaker 6: You know, most crime scenes aren't secure for some period

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Speaker 6: of time after crimes committed, right until police arrive and

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Speaker 6: actually get a hold on that scene and put up

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Speaker 6: a perimeter to keep the public out. Now, in this case,

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Speaker 6: you're spot on right. They had the scene, they released

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Speaker 6: the scene, then you had days of nobody there, then

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Speaker 6: a security guard posted out front keeping the media away.

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Speaker 7: Then the law enforcement was back to the scene.

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Speaker 6: So again, what was collected on that initial shot by

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Speaker 6: p MA County we won't know right away. I believe

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Speaker 6: that they were able to present and collect probative DNA

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Speaker 6: evidence at the scene in their.

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Speaker 7: First walkthrough, so.

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Speaker 6: I'm not so particularly worried about that evidence in light

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Speaker 6: of a potential prosecution. I think what's very concerning right

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Speaker 6: now is this new statement from Nanos.

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Speaker 7: Really opens up.

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Speaker 6: Are they aware of a motive, what direction is this

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Speaker 6: investigation going, and do they believe that the people in

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Speaker 6: Tucson are really in some sort of danger or was

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Speaker 6: that again, like we said earlier, was that just an

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Speaker 6: off the cuff statement taking the wrong way?

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Speaker 3: If this was your investigation, you're in charge, and we're

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Speaker 3: at day forty plus, Now, what would you be doing today, Brian.

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Speaker 6: Well, So to be clear, as a private investigator on

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Speaker 6: the private side, we're never in charge of an investigation

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Speaker 6: like this.

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Speaker 7: We would work.

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Speaker 6: The first thing that we would do is generate what

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Speaker 6: we call memorandum of understanding with the Pema County Sheriff's

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Speaker 6: office to clearly.

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Speaker 7: Define the left and right lateral limits of what our

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Speaker 7: organization would do.

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Speaker 6: And one of the first things we'd do is bring

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Speaker 6: in advanced search and rescue assets as well as that

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Speaker 6: could include drones identifying areas for grid search. The second

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Speaker 6: thing would be identifying who we can and can't talk to,

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Speaker 6: because as a private investigator we never want to step

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Speaker 6: on the toes of law enforcement. So the first immediate

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Speaker 6: step would be a briefing with Pma County to clearly

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Speaker 6: identify where they would or would not want us to go,

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Speaker 6: set up reporting parameters. Everything we do would be sent

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Speaker 6: effectively in a one way street of information to the

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Speaker 6: Sheriff's office, and then, as I said, search and rescue

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Speaker 6: advance search and rescue technologies would be brought in to

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Speaker 6: start aggressively grid searching that area.

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Speaker 2: Is Nancy Guthrie, a beloved mother and grandmother alive what

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Speaker 2: is she suffering right now? Is she hidden away in

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Speaker 2: some basement being fed? What does she have her meds?

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Speaker 2: Does she dream about her children and going back to

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Speaker 2: her home? Joining us now is a woman who knows

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Speaker 2: the ANSWER's firsthand to those type of questions. With us,

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Speaker 2: Cheryl Hunter, Kidnapped survivor, an author of Use It Turn

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Speaker 2: Setbacks into Success on Amazon, Use It Turn Setbacks into Success.

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Speaker 2: You can find her at Cherylhunter dot com Cheryl with

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Speaker 2: a Sea, Cheryl, thank you for being with us tonight. Nancy.

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Speaker 8: It's good to see you again.

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Speaker 2: I can only imagine what Nancy Guthrie's ordeal has been

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Speaker 2: triggering in your mind.

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Speaker 8: It has been triggering a lot. One of the things

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Speaker 8: that is most haunting is that there has been no

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Speaker 8: proof of life. And I, like everyone now, am just

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Speaker 8: praying that she is safe, she is alive, and that

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Speaker 8: she will be returned.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl. For those not familiar with your ordeal, what happened?

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Speaker 8: I was a teenager traveling overseas with my best friend.

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Speaker 8: I was approached by a man with a camera who said,

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Speaker 8: are you a model? I can make you one? Just

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Speaker 8: come with me and my friend over there. And I

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Speaker 8: I thought that's not a very prudent thing to do.

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Speaker 8: But I wanted to live in a big city. I

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Speaker 8: was from a very rural horse ranch in the mountains

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Speaker 8: of Colorado, and I thought, ah, this could be my opportunity. Now,

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Speaker 8: obviously they were not photographers, they had nothing to do

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Speaker 8: with modeling. They were criminals. They held me captive, they

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Speaker 8: abused me in every way, and they eventually let me go.

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Speaker 8: And over the years, Nancy, I've speculated on why, and

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Speaker 8: the best I can come up with is that I

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Speaker 8: humanized myself. Now, none of this happened consciously. I was

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Speaker 8: a teenager at the time, and I started talking about

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Speaker 8: my little brother who was having problems in school and

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Speaker 8: he was being held back a year, and I said,

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Speaker 8: but he's very smart. He invents things. I think he

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Speaker 8: could really make something of his life. And I hope

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Speaker 8: he doesn't let this discourage him. And I would talk

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Speaker 8: about my grandmother trying to hold my hand in public,

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Speaker 8: and I think what I did was I turned myself

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Speaker 8: out of being an object, which is how a criminal

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Speaker 8: relates to a kidnapping victim. You know, they're an object.

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Speaker 8: There are means to an end. They're a tool to

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Speaker 8: get what they want, And somehow, in this fit of

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Speaker 8: brilliance that I had and talking about my family, I

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Speaker 8: turned myself back into a human. I can only pray

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Speaker 8: that Nancy Guthrie, if she's alive and able to have

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Speaker 8: any interaction with them, is doing the same with us.

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Speaker 2: A Cheryl Hunter, kidnapped, survivor and author of Use It

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Speaker 2: Turned Setbacks into success? Cheryl and the darkest moments of

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Speaker 2: your ordeal, the darkest moments? How did you keep going?

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Speaker 2: How did you survive?

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Speaker 8: I in the in the darkest moments, and by that

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Speaker 8: I mean these monsters were torturing me and cutting me,

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Speaker 8: and they were on top of me and assaulting me

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Speaker 8: in every way you could imagine. I now I know,

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Speaker 8: I dissociated. I craned my head as far as I could,

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Speaker 8: and on the wall in the room that they had me,

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Speaker 8: there was a little speck of light and I thought

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Speaker 8: that light must be coming from something outside, something which

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Speaker 8: is free. And I stared at it with all my mnd,

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Speaker 8: thinking if I stared hard enough, I could become this.

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Speaker 8: Now that wasn't something I planned out. I simply could

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Speaker 8: not look at them cutting me, torturing me, raping me.

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Speaker 8: I had to look away, and somehow that dancing spot

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Speaker 8: of light that stayed there all of the days that

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Speaker 8: I was held gave me a sense of freedom. I

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Speaker 8: couldn't I could just like this spark of light fly

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Speaker 8: away anytime I chose.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl, I have so many questions to ask you. But

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Speaker 2: that story that you just told about that dancing, glittering

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Speaker 2: spark of light on the wall getting you through the

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Speaker 2: worst moments of the worst moments of your life just

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Speaker 2: I don't know. It's very, very poignant. I think some

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Speaker 2: of what you're saying is you were acting out of instinct,

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Speaker 2: focusing away from what was happening to you on a

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Speaker 2: dancing speck of light, humanizing yourself to your abductors. But

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Speaker 2: you were held for a considerable period of time. Were

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Speaker 2: you fed, were you allowed to sleep?

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Speaker 8: What happened, well, I was not fed, and I passed out.

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Speaker 8: I don't know how else to characterize it. They gave

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Speaker 8: me water. Originally they had drugged me. They asked me

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Speaker 8: if I wanted wine, and that was drugged. I passed

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Speaker 8: out And it was much later. I was in a

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Speaker 8: car and I woke up and saw that we were

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Speaker 8: going up a windy road and I realized this was

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Speaker 8: not good. My head was hanging out of the passenger

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Speaker 8: front passenger window with my tongue out, kind of like

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Speaker 8: a dog. And over the period of days, I got

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Speaker 8: water a couple of times, but that was it, and

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Speaker 8: I presume that's how they continued to drug me. But

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Speaker 8: I was just out of it entirely. I was laying

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Speaker 8: there at times in water and I I'm sure it

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Speaker 8: was my own urine, but they also tried to drown me. Yes,

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Speaker 8: it was instinct those things that I did, humanizing myself

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Speaker 8: and looking away and staring at the light. But I

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Speaker 8: can't say that I thought to do those things. It

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Speaker 8: was not conscious thought at all. It was just a reflexive,

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Speaker 8: instinctive response. I was too young. I had no experience

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Speaker 8: with anything horrific. It was, just as you'd said, an instinct.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl Hunter. When you have been hearing about Nancy Guthrie

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Speaker 2: and what she's going through, what her family is going through,

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Speaker 2: how has that affected.

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Speaker 8: You, it's very hard to be with. I initially thought

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Speaker 8: I must turn off the TV and stop watching this,

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Speaker 8: But the truth is that I'm very blessed. I not

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Speaker 8: only overcame the impact of the kidnapping in my life,

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Speaker 8: but I went on to help thousands of other people

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Speaker 8: overcome the impact of the violent crime in their own

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Speaker 8: lives that they had faced, and I thought it's my

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Speaker 8: duty to pay attention because I do demonstrate that it's

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Speaker 8: possible to go on after trauma. As I've followed Nancy

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Speaker 8: Guthrie's case, one of the things that's become disturbingly sad

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Speaker 8: is that I've read in many comments that people say,

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Speaker 8: my son has been gone for seventeen years and I

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Speaker 8: don't know where he went, or my father disappeared and

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Speaker 8: no one can find him. I say that to say

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Speaker 8: that there are many people suffering right now. And what's

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Speaker 8: common in an occurrence like this, where we have experienced

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Speaker 8: something that seems unfathomable and out of our control, is

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Speaker 8: that we feel hopeless. And I've found over the years

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Speaker 8: since my kidnapping that the antidote to hopelessness is action,

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Speaker 8: is inspired action and helping another. So yes contribute in

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Speaker 8: some way to different funds and causes that are supporting

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Speaker 8: the family of Nancy Guthrie, or to the beautiful tributes

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Speaker 8: that people are playing paying to her. But there's also

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Speaker 8: those in our own communities who are suffering and hurting,

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Speaker 8: and whenever we feel hopeless, if we just remember that

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Speaker 8: there's someone else who's hurting and feeling hopeless as well.

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Speaker 8: And what we can control is contributing, being kind and

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Speaker 8: finding a way to make those people's lives just a

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Speaker 8: little bit brighter. And I want to demonstrate that and

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Speaker 8: and my voice to this sad, sad state of affairs.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl Hunter, You survived. That gives people hope that Nancy

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Speaker 2: Guthrie can't survive. Yes, I know she's elderly. Yes I

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Speaker 2: know she has health problems, but she can survive. There

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Speaker 2: is a hope, There is a glimmer of hope that

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Speaker 2: she is yet alive and can't.

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Speaker 1: Be brought home.

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Speaker 2: You did it.

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Speaker 8: I pray that that's the case. And people say, well,

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Speaker 8: there's been no proof of life, as though that is definitive. Well,

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Speaker 8: there's also been no proof of death. And I'm hanging

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Speaker 8: my hat on that and my hopes on that that

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Speaker 8: she is in fact alive. That, as crazy as it sounds,

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Speaker 8: somehow she's watching all of these conversations about her, and

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Speaker 8: she's allowing this massive outpouring of love and attention and

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Speaker 8: affection and to fortify her. We are really each of

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Speaker 8: us far more resilient than we could ever anticipate, and

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Speaker 8: we all have proven it to ourselves in one way

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Speaker 8: or another. We've all dealt with circumstances that we never

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Speaker 8: would have chosen for ourselves. And I know that if

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Speaker 8: Nancy is alive, that Nancy Guthrie can truly overcome, as

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Speaker 8: can her family and her loved ones.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: In the mind of Nancy Guthrie's kidnapper joining us now.

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Speaker 2: Special guest Robin Drake, behavioral expert and former FBI special Agent,

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Speaker 2: chief of the FBI counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program, Repeat

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Speaker 2: chief of the FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program, author of

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Speaker 2: Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior prediction.

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Speaker 2: Robin Drake, it's so great to have you joining us tonight.

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Speaker 2: First of all, based on the status of the investigation

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Speaker 2: right now, what we know right now clearly no robbery,

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Speaker 2: no burglary, not a random kidnapping. What could possibly be

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Speaker 2: the motive of Robin.

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Speaker 9: I'm going to remove the ransom notes from this one

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Speaker 9: only because I think the ransom notes is a great

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Speaker 9: attempt at spearfishing, because you know, typically when people are

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Speaker 9: targeting someone to take advantage of them, manipulate them through

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Speaker 9: really nasty, black hatted social engineering, they're taking known information

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Speaker 9: knowledge in manipulating it for their own gain. Because if

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Speaker 9: you're going to do a ransom and an abduction, this

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Speaker 9: is exactly not the way to do it, and that's

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Speaker 9: ever been done this way before, because the first thing

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Speaker 9: you always have to do for a ransom is sign

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Speaker 9: of life, proof of life not given. The other thing

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Speaker 9: that they also do in ransoms is they communicate directly

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Speaker 9: with the family because remember, you always.

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Speaker 10: Got to look at coordinated with John.

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Speaker 9: Roberts, the first FBI profile that says, you always have

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Speaker 9: to look for intent, and if the intent is to

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Speaker 9: get money, you have to make it easy to get

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Speaker 9: the money. Whoever is doing these ransom notes through media,

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Speaker 9: which is also never done, made it very, very difficult

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Speaker 9: to get the money because they made it implausible with

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Speaker 9: no sign of life, and so I kind of discounted

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Speaker 9: that from the very beginning.

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Speaker 2: I agree and disagree with what you just said. I

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Speaker 2: think initially the motive was money, but many legal legals

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Speaker 2: believe that everything went sideways and the original motive became

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Speaker 2: impossible to achieve. But if it wasn't for ransom money,

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Speaker 2: then what could it have been?

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Speaker 9: So now we've got to look at what's the motive

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Speaker 9: slash intent. There's really kind of two schools of thought

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Speaker 9: on this. So let's take, for argument's sake, that it

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Speaker 9: was targeted, was targeted for Nancy or her establishment or

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Speaker 9: something there. They wanted something inside that house. They either

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Speaker 9: wanted an object or they wanted Nancy. Some theories out

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Speaker 9: there are that it was targeted towards Nancy through some

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Speaker 9: sort of retribution against either Nancy or Savannah herself, and

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Speaker 9: that even if it was Nancy, that might be a

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Speaker 9: secret that she held of someone that had it in

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Speaker 9: for her.

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Speaker 10: To me, that kind of falls apart a.

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Speaker 11: Bit because there's always leakage of an individual that is

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Speaker 11: targeting someone that has malicious intent, or there's some sort

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Speaker 11: of stalking or there's some sort of note, there's something

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Speaker 11: that says it was.

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Speaker 10: For that intent.

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Speaker 9: And if it was intent to take Nancy out of

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Speaker 9: that house, because I looked up the research on this too,

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Speaker 9: if it was a targeted abduction in retribution for Nancy,

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Speaker 9: that the intent was to take her out of that

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Speaker 9: house three to twelve minutes has had as long as

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Speaker 9: those take on average. This was forty one minutes, and

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Speaker 9: so something went different.

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Speaker 2: Well, Robin Drake, you're a former FBI behavioral analyst, and

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Speaker 2: I don't want to throw you in the same pot

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Speaker 2: to stew with online conspiracy theorists. But you're stuatying that

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Speaker 2: the maybe someone that had a quote relationship with Nancy Guthrie.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 12: My theory, my opinion is that Nancy was abducted by

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Speaker 12: a boyfriend or a friend that is a boy, a

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Speaker 12: man of her own, not an obsession with Savannah, not

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Speaker 12: anything to do with anybody else but Nancy. I am

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Speaker 12: not an intuitive, I'm not anything like that. I don't

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Speaker 12: know anything other people don't know. I just want to

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Speaker 12: speak into the universe that my theory is this is

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Speaker 12: a about Nancy and her friend or a boyfriend, and

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Speaker 12: maybe he hired somebody.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's from Abby and mom TikTok, Abby and mom

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Speaker 2: on TikTok a boyfriend. Don't you think by now we

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Speaker 2: would know if eighty four year old Nancy Guthrie had

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Speaker 2: a boy toy. I think we would that, said Robin Drake,

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Speaker 2: let's veer back out of the wheeze and into the

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Speaker 2: middle of the road. Robin, you are unconvinced that the

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Speaker 2: purpose someone that Missus Guthrie had with whom she had

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Speaker 2: a relationship.

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Speaker 9: Think about this if it was for retribution against Nancy

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Speaker 9: in some way and she was hiding it, because that's

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Speaker 9: one of theories is that she didn't share it with someone.

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Speaker 9: What eighty four year old woman that's close to her family,

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Speaker 9: that has church friends and all these things, isn't going

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Speaker 9: to share with her relatives, friends in close associates. It's

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Speaker 9: that someone has it in for her, or she got

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Speaker 9: hate mail or something. So that's why that's kind of

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Speaker 9: on the outskirts. But at the same time, more of

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Speaker 9: my theory of that this was a home invasion for robbery,

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Speaker 9: targeted for something inside that house that it took them

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Speaker 9: forty one minutes to find is it's an outlier because

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Speaker 9: of the type of targeting at eighty four years old.

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Speaker 9: But the same time, though there's no data that supports

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Speaker 9: the other one, and a little bit more on this

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Speaker 9: one in my mind, but both sides are open. But again,

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Speaker 9: targeted against Nancy for something in that house, whether her

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Speaker 9: or an object or a thing of monetary value.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Robin Drake, I hate to argue with an FBI

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Speaker 2: behavioral analyst, but that sounds crazy to me. This top

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Speaker 2: secret thing that they wanted out of our house? What

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Speaker 2: the necklace Savannah gave her two Christmases ago? What? It

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Speaker 2: just doesn't make any sense. She's not a special agent.

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Speaker 2: What could possibly be in her home that would justify this.

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Speaker 2: They could easily break in when she's not there. And

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Speaker 2: even if they did or did not find the top

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Speaker 2: secret object you're talking about, if it was for an object,

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Speaker 2: why would they take an eighty four year old that

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Speaker 2: can't walk past fifty yards along with them. That doesn't

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Speaker 2: make any sense, none at all. Okay, let me go

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Speaker 2: with another topic, the suspects behavior. What do you make

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Speaker 2: of that, Robin Drike.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, suspects behavior at the front door, and definitely someone

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Speaker 9: that had some reps as a calm in doing a

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Speaker 9: home invasion of some sort. They were very fluid with

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Speaker 9: their actions and what they were doing. They're very comfortable

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Speaker 9: with it. And so again this kind of supports my

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Speaker 9: theory that someone that was on that front porch had.

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Speaker 10: Some experience in home invasion.

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Speaker 9: Before for whatever purpose that was for abduction or for

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Speaker 9: getting something inside that house, and so they're comfortable doing it,

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Speaker 9: but not as experienced obviously to deal with a ring

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Speaker 9: camera or a nest camera because they were trying to

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Speaker 9: cover it with a branch, which.

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Speaker 10: Also kind of discounts.

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Speaker 9: You know, one of the theories that someone has come

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Speaker 9: out with recently that they maybe they use a Wi

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Speaker 9: Fi jammer or something which also has a very limited

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Speaker 9: distance that works on because if there were if they

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Speaker 9: had a Wi Fi jammer on them, they wouldn't have

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Speaker 9: tried to kind of cover up that nest camera. Also,

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Speaker 9: one of the theories out there that people were flowing

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Speaker 9: out was as a relative or someone close to the

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Speaker 9: answer knew the property well. And my theory is is

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Speaker 9: that it was someone maybe one degree of separation that

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Speaker 9: knew of something in that house, knew of something to value,

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Speaker 9: because there's a lot easier ways to get in that

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Speaker 9: house than that front door which had a double gate

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Speaker 9: on the front, the side door, the back door, around

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Speaker 9: the pool.

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Speaker 10: There's a lot of other.

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Speaker 9: Ways to do this than actually going in that front

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Speaker 9: door that was covered very well.

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Speaker 2: Robin's Ree behavioral analysis expert and former FBI. What do

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Speaker 2: you make of the porch guy the purpse behavior on

438
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 2: the front porch and how that relates to an Internet

439
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 2: outage in the neighborhood.

440
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 9: Would he be able to tell that was still connected

441
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 9: to Wi Fi or just connected to power, because if

442
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 9: he's trying to take down the Wi Fi in the neighborhood,

443
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 9: it's still Again, it's a hard thing to assess on

444
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 9: the front step. And here's the other thing that I

445
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 9: think it's important for people to also take in. You're

446
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 9: looking at limited data from the neighbor who said they

447
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 9: lost connectivity to their own ring camera that night at

448
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 9: that time. Okay, have they looked at the pattern of behavior,

449
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 9: how often that ring camera loses connectivity over the course

450
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 9: of a day, a week, a month, to see if

451
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 9: it actually fit a pattern or ivo was enigma or

452
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 9: a blip. So data points are great if you're actually

453
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 9: doing them and looking for an arc of behavior between

454
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 9: technology as well as human behavior, because if it's a blip,

455
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 9: then it's something to pay attention to. If it's just

456
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 9: another data point that it's completely normal, it might not

457
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 9: pan out.

458
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 2: Robin Draike, I hear what you're saying right there, and

459
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: while you were talking, I was reassessing what you said

460
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: about the going into Nancy Guthrie's home as retribution against

461
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthery. I still think that's completely bogus. That's crap

462
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: right there. Forget that, just mark that off my list

463
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 2: of possibilities. But you did say going in for a

464
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 2: specific item, and that they spent forty one minutes looking

465
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: for the item, and I took it to mean some

466
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: secret item nobody else knew about. But actually you might

467
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: be right. What if a granny nanny told her son,

468
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: the black sheep son, that Ms. Guthrie has jewelry hidden

469
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: in a certain spot in her home or keeps, you know,

470
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars cash taped to the bottom of the bed.

471
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: I don't know, something like that, an item of value

472
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: in that home and it leaked to someone. I can

473
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: go with you that far, Robin, that they went in

474
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: for a specific item, but then taking Nancy Guthrie with them.

475
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: They were in full disguise, So taking Nancy Guthrie with them,

476
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: she can't walk over fifty yards, she has all sorts

477
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 2: of health issues. They should just go in and get

478
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 2: it and leave. With that scenario, that's where you lose me.

479
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: Why would they take her with them if this were

480
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: not a kidnapping, kidnapping for ransom and the whole retribution

481
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: thing as a motive against her for what she screwed

482
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 2: up the knitting circle. No, and retribution against Savannah Guthrie

483
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: or her husband. This is pretty far fetched. I'm going

484
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 2: to kidnap your mom because you said X during the

485
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 2: Today Show or because your husband worked for fill in

486
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: the blank, and then never take credit for it and

487
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 2: explain why it's retribution. None of that makes any sense

488
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: to me. It's very fantastical. But everything's on the table tonight.

489
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

490
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 2: Tonight, a vandalized, correct wide open utility box is taking

491
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: center stays straight out to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative.

492
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: Reporter and Dave why because this utility box that shows

493
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 3: really vandal It shows a lot of vandalism. But Nancy,

494
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: this utility box right there, you got to realize this

495
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 3: brings in phone fiber optic cable, which, by the way,

496
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: that's how many of us use the Internet. This box

497
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 3: is being tied to possibly an Internet outage that was

498
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 3: happening in the neighborhood at the time we believe Nancy

499
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 3: Guthrie was kidnapped. This utility box is just around the

500
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 3: corner from her home, next to the neighbor that uh her.

501
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 3: The neighbor's home that sees into Nancy Guthrie's backyard. Nancy,

502
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 3: We've got a lot going on with this box and

503
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 3: the possibility that internet connectivity was blacked out for a

504
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 3: brief period of time the night Nancy Gudcree disciplined period.

505
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: The video we're showing you right now is from our

506
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: friends at WCNC. This utility box near Nancy Guthrie's home. Okay,

507
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: straight out to our guests, an all star panel. James

508
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: Bass joining us. James is a digital forensic analyst, expert

509
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 2: witness with Evident Solutions, Inc. There in Tucson. James Bass,

510
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. What do you make

511
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: of it? Let's tell you a look at this video again.

512
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: A utility box pride and vandalized at the time Nancy

513
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: Guthrie goes missing. What would this have to do with

514
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: the blackout experience by we know two neighbors of Nancy Guthries.

515
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 2: By the way, this video from our friends at wc NC.

516
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 13: What about it James, Well, not exactly sure that these

517
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 13: two could be connected. Looking at the utility box the

518
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 13: way it's set up, in the wires that are in it,

519
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 13: they appear that they are likely just your regular telephone bars,

520
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 13: your telephone infrastructure that would not affect your WiFi. I

521
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 13: would assume this is now.

522
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: I want to see the utility box, James. Granted I'm

523
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: just a trial lawyer. You're the digital expert. How can

524
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: you look at this tangle of wires and tell me, oh,

525
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 2: it's nothing but phone wires? And then to me, I

526
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: don't understand how you know that by looking at that

527
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: that it's just phone wires. I mean, doesn't a lot

528
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 2: of fiber optics include phone, your cable, your Wi Fi connection.

529
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 2: And again thanks to w C and C for this,

530
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: But what do you mean they're just phone wires? I

531
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: didn't think there even were just phone wires anymore.

532
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 13: Well, the wires are still there, and the infrastructure still there.

533
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 13: It still supports a lot of what we do today.

534
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 13: Your fiber optic is just one five is a fiber

535
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 13: optic cable. Your phones would have three or four pairs

536
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 13: that are connected in that junction box. It looks like spaghetti.

537
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 13: If you were to have something that interrupted the service,

538
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 13: if it were if it were severed at the box,

539
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 13: then it would require work order to be fixed. It

540
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 13: would have been an outage that was permanent, it would

541
00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 13: not have been intermittent. If that were the intent, then

542
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 13: you would have to come back and fix it. It

543
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 13: would not come back on.

544
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 7: It's all.

545
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: Okay, now that is making sense. If the box were

546
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: vandalized and Wi Fi cut off, then it would stay off.

547
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: They couldn't repair the Wi Fi. Okay, but what about this.

548
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 2: Let's see the porch guy, please, control room. What if

549
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 2: the purp go with me on this, not just his face,

550
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 2: his whole self. Please. What if the purp thought he

551
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 2: had disabled it by attacking that utility box. Then he

552
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 2: comes up and sees the light on the porch can blinking,

553
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 2: or sees some type of activity a motion sensor movement

554
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 2: or something. He's go oh h double l and then

555
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: goes to get the foliage to cover it up. He's like, Okay,

556
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 2: well that didn't work. Would that make sense?

557
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 9: Bass?

558
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: Possibly?

559
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 13: But I if you were going to the extent to

560
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 13: attack a utility infrastructure, you would probably know that that

561
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 13: was going to That was not going to affect how

562
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 13: the Internet services delivered.

563
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: Well, you know that because you're a digital forensic expert,

564
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: but not every regular person would know that. They would

565
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: see that utility box through Nancy Guthrie's home and go, hey,

566
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: I'll attack that, I'll take out the Wi Fi. Entirely possible,

567
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: that would be possible. Yeah, okay, hold on, hold on,

568
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 2: Let's see the video of the porch guy walking up.

569
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: I want to hone in on what we think is

570
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 2: a walkie talkie or a signal jammer. Okay, take a

571
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 2: look at what's in his pocket. Is it just a

572
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 2: walkie talkie and he attempted to take out the utility box?

573
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: Is the utility box attack the reason investigators are now stating,

574
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 2: at least one of them, that they are close to

575
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: a break through. Straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons joining us

576
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 2: He is the director of Operations at USPA Nationwide Security.

577
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 2: Fitz Gibbons leads a team of investigators that go around

578
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: the world finding and extracting missing people. He is a

579
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 2: former marine and he is an Iraqi war vet. There

580
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 2: could be the issue of motive. Is this connected to

581
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 2: Guthrie or not? Has this happened in similar neighborhoods. If so,

582
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: is it just a thug? Is it just like a

583
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 2: graffiti artist or somebody that goes around knocking down millboxes

584
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 2: or throwing stones or shooting out street lamps, no real

585
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 2: motive except for the pure joy of it.

586
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think Okham's razor tells us that number one

587
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 6: could be to try to find copper wire, or number

588
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 6: two it fits that second category that you just described,

589
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 6: that this is.

590
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 7: Just straight up vandalism.

591
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 6: I don't believe that this has any connection to Missus

592
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 6: Guthrie's disappearance for the simple fact that this would not

593
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 6: There's no fiber optic in there. This would have nothing

594
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 6: to do with disconnecting a security.

595
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: Pits gibbons. You know what I think is the strongest

596
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 2: argument that this is not connected to Guthrie what Bass

597
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: said at the get go, James Bass. He said that

598
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 2: if that caused the outage, it would have remained outed.

599
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: You'd have to have somebody come and fix it. The

600
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: PURP can't destroy it. And what he just happens to

601
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: be a fiber optic repair person. No, so that I

602
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: believe is going to be a dead end unless the

603
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: PURP try to out it with that and it didn't work,

604
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 2: and then went to jams. Now I'm going to circle

605
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 2: back to jammers, but I want to really hit something

606
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: with Bass. We've heard so much about data dumps, and

607
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 2: I remember starting it on day one, a data dump

608
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: of all the cell phones in and out of the area.

609
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 2: That was before Nanos allowed the FBI in. They lost

610
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: a lot of valuable time, by the way, while Nanos

611
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: was twiddling his thumbs. The data dump would have showed

612
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: all cell phone connectivity in the area. It would have shown,

613
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 2: for instance, a you connect, which is a device already

614
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 2: pre wired in vehicles, newer vehicles that connect you to

615
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 2: the car, Wi Fi iPads that are trying to connect

616
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: or touch Wi Fi sources as they go by. It

617
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: could be a smart watch, it could be any number

618
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 2: of devices that connect via Wi Fi. But you're saying

619
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 2: Google and or Apple could save the day. Now as

620
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 2: you're talking, James Bass, remember I'm just a trial lawyer.

621
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: Dumb me down. For me. Google's already save the day

622
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: once by getting resurrecting from the dead that porch cam.

623
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: So what can they do for us? Google or Apple?

624
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 13: Most folks don't realize just how much data they create

625
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 13: every day, just through normal course of business, every day

626
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 13: of their lives. They're creating data points that they couldn't

627
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 13: even comprehend. So once you're able to filter down from

628
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 13: the cell phone tower dumps, you know, if you can

629
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 13: find a specific suspect address or device cell phone, then

630
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 13: going to be able to go back to people like

631
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 13: Google or Apple. Google clicks more data than Apple does,

632
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 13: but for instance, your location points every minute.

633
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 2: You completely schemed everyone out when you were talking about

634
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 2: how Google, you said, in the background is following you. Well, ye,

635
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: I'm like my thought on that is fine. Follow me

636
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 2: to Kroger, follow me to Walmart. I just be mad

637
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 2: if you didn't. But that's me. So you stated that Google,

638
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 2: and I guess Apple too, But you mentioned Google is

639
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: following you in the background. In other words, you don't

640
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 2: really know this is happening, and they can say, oh,

641
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 2: she parted your car at Walmart? All right, It's like

642
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: every thirty seconds they're updating your location. How's that going

643
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: to help me?

644
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 13: Well, what it will enable you to do is once

645
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 13: you identify this device, you send a search weren't to

646
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 13: Google and ask for this information and anyone can can

647
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 13: download their information and look at what is being collected.

648
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 7: It's free.

649
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 13: They'll email it to you and you can review it.

650
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 7: But with the.

651
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 13: Location stamps, you'll be able to put an individual or

652
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 13: the cell phone generally within a three to ten meters radius,

653
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 13: you know, anywhere from ten to thirty feet, to a

654
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 13: particular latitude and longitude at a millisecond time stamp, so on.

655
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 13: Once you get the device and you get this information,

656
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 13: now you see when they're taking their steps, where they've

657
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 13: parked their car, where they've gone shopping, where they how

658
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 13: they drive to work, and how they drive home. It

659
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 13: unlocks an entire history because that data is saved for

660
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 13: the life of the account.

661
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about the

662
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 2: disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free eight hundred

663
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: two two five five three two four repeat eight hundred

664
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 2: two two five five three two four, or if you

665
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,479
Speaker 2: wish to remain anonymous five two zero eight eight two

666
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 2: seven four six three five two zero eight eight two

667
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 2: seven four sixty three. There is a one point two

668
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: plus million dollar reward for information leading to the whereabouts

669
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 2: of Nancy Guthrie. One point two plus million dollars on

670
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 2: the table. There does not have to be an arrest,

671
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: much less a conviction. We continue to do our very

672
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: best to keep the search for Nancy Guthrie alive. Goodbye friend,