1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Today, our fellow citizens, our way of life, our very freedom, 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: came under attack in a series of deliberate and deadly 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: terrorist acts. Thousands of lives were suddenly ended by evil, 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: despicable acts of terror. America was targeted for attack because 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: we're the brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world, 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: and no one will keep that light from shining. Today 7 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: our nation saw evil, the very worst of human nature, 8 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: and we responded with the best of America, with the 9 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: daring of our rescue workers, with the caring for strangers 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: and neighbors who came to give blood and help in 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: any way they could. Tonight I asked for your prayers 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: for all those who grief. This is a day when 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: all Americans from every walk of life unite in our 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: resolve for justice and peace. America has stood down any 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: enemies four and we will do so this time. None 16 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: of us will ever forget this day, yet we go 17 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: forward to defend freedom and all that is good and 18 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: just in our world. On this episode of News World, 19 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: I wanted to devote an episode to reflecting and remembering 20 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: the September eleventh attacks on the twentieth anniversary, which is 21 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: this Satury as I was thinking about who could really 22 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: talk about nine to eleven and depth. I thought of 23 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: my friend, Senator Bob Carey. Bob served in the nine 24 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: to eleven Commission and has an insider's perspective on how 25 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: nine to eleven happened, what went wrong, how we needed 26 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: to make changes to our national security, and what ultimately followed. 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: From nineteen eighty nine to two thousand and one, Bob 28 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: Carey represented Nebraska in the US Senate. Before serving as 29 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: a US Senator, Carey served a single term as Nebraska's governor. 30 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: In addition, Carey served three years as a Navy seal 31 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: in the US Navy and as a Medal of Honor recipient. 32 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: He's currently the chairman of Minerva University. I'm really pleased 33 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: to welcome my guest, Senator Bob Kerrey. It's hard to 34 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: believe it's been twenty years since the attack on nine 35 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: to eleven. I'm curious what do you remember most about 36 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: that day. Well, my nineteen year old son was born 37 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: the day before. I went over to Hackettsack, New Jersey, 38 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: where he and my wife were, and watched the twin 39 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: towers come down. I couldn't get back across the River 40 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: until the next day. I was president of New School 41 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: for ten years and was president that day. We had 42 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: a dormitory down there, and what I remember is there 43 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: was a tremendous amount of sort of personal suffering in 44 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: anguish because nobody really knew who was in the building. 45 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: It took a long time to identify everybody it was there, 46 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: and there was concerned that there was going to be 47 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: another attack. That was a real possibility because this one 48 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: we hadn't sized up, and it was a fairly significant 49 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: failure on the part of the beds. As you know, 50 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: everything looks clear when you're looking back, and that's what 51 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: we did with a nine loved commission. Two additional things 52 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: I would say that I remember very very well. One is, 53 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: you know, you perfunctually would say, gee, it's good to 54 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: see you. But after nine to eleven, when you said 55 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: that to somebody, you meant it because you didn't know 56 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: if you were going to be able to see him again. 57 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: You just didn't know. And every time you looked at 58 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: a police officer, fire department, emergency rescue person after nine 59 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: to eleven, they looked different. They weren't just ordinary people 60 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: because so many of them had died doing what they do, 61 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: which is to go to the building and move up 62 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: the stairs and put their lives at risk as a consequence. 63 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it was a horrifying day. I remember I 64 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: was actually meeting with two army majors to talk about 65 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: changing army doctrine. They actually had come from the part 66 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: of the Pentagon that got hit by a plane, and 67 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: we were in the meeting and somebody walked in and 68 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: said the plane has now hit the North Tower, and 69 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: at the time we thought of it just somebody wants 70 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: to have been a really stupid pilot. And then a 71 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: few minutes later somebody came in and said they hit 72 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: the South Tower, and at that point we knew it 73 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: was a terrorist attack. Callisto was working at the capitol, 74 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: and the capitol police basically told people to just run 75 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: away from the capitol. They had no serious planning for 76 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: that kind of event, and so literally all the staff 77 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: came out of the buildings, ran down the streets away 78 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: from the Capitol. And of course the plane that went 79 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: down in Pennsylvania was in fact assigned to hit the 80 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: Capitol if they could have gotten to it. Passengers saved 81 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: a lot of lives on that line they did as 82 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: it remarkable you were asked to serve on this commission, 83 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: and I'm delighted that you did. What was the biggest 84 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: thing you think you learned. The biggest thing I've learned 85 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: is that it's very difficult to identify a terrorist. Muhammadatta, 86 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: who led the organization of this one, was you know, 87 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: if you saw him in a cafe in Hamburg, Germany 88 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine, with these laptop computers, shopping for 89 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: low cost flight schools in the United States, you wouldn't 90 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: say that guy's a threat to America. They looked like 91 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: everybody else. In the old days. We tracked the Russian 92 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: army and we tracked their military and we could see 93 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: him from space. Knew where they were, but they could 94 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: calculate the threat. As a consequence, in this case, you 95 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: don't know who they are, so it's not easy to do. 96 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: And then we missed, I think the relative threat. You 97 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: and I were both in the Congress in ninety three 98 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: when the Bowl Trade Center was attacked the first time. 99 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: I believe you were still there in ninety eight when 100 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: Darryl Salama Nairobi were hit. That was actually quite an 101 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: impressive military operation to have a simultaneous attack on two 102 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: embassies separated by hundreds of miles, and then Nicole got 103 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: hit in October, and we just didn't accumulate we had 104 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: a sense of security. Now, George Tenant and others who 105 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: were accumulating this evidence, they believed they knew it, they 106 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: had entified it. But what we learned in the nine 107 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: eleven commission was there was just an understandable lack of 108 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: communication between in this case, the FBI and the CIA. 109 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: And I think we just all of us underestimated the threat. 110 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: I mean we made fun of I think we called 111 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: them nose hair in Salami, the two guys that were 112 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: intimately involved with the attack on the World Trade Center 113 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety three. We underestimated their capability. And as 114 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: you know, in security, that is about the most dangerous 115 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: thing you can do. Well, it's really kind of amazing 116 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: when you look back at it. These nineteen hijackers submitted 117 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: twenty four visa applications. They got twenty three visas right. 118 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: They ended the US like a total of thirty three 119 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: times through ten different airports. They were going back and 120 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: forth just like regular tourists. They were, as I said, 121 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: I would say seriously underestimate that threat. And I say 122 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: we that's all of us. I mean, there's no innocent 123 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: here when it comes to you may have had one 124 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: or two people that were really there, George and the CIA. 125 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: The agency where anxious as hecked. There were a lot 126 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: of people paying attention to it, but nowhere near est 127 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: now the government was organized properly. And I hope you 128 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: get a chance to talk about this nude among the 129 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: things that Congress didn't act on, and Congress did almost 130 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: everything we recommended. New when it came to reform in 131 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: the executive branch, they did nothing that we recommended to 132 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: organize the legislative branch differently. And I can tell you 133 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: from eight years of being on the Intelligence Committee in 134 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: the Senate, doing oversight of the executive branch is hard 135 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: under the best of circumstances, but when almost all the 136 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: activities are classified top secret, it's hard. It's gotten it 137 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: really difficult. And learn that even more on the nine 138 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: eleven Commission, because I had to do a law that 139 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: work myself when I was speaking, we created the Rumsfeld 140 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: Commission looking at the nuclear threat, and Dawn came out 141 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: of retirement to chair that in ninety seven, and they 142 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: discovered when they went out to the agency that the 143 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: compartments were so tight that they were the only people 144 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: who actually knew what was going on, because they would 145 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: go from person to person, crossing the various compartment of information, 146 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: and they would say to somebody, g if you knew X, 147 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: would your opinion change? And they'd go, oh, well, if 148 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: X was true, oh yeah, my opinion changed totally. But 149 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: they didn't know X because they were in the wrong compartment. 150 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: They found that the agree to which we had crippled 151 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: ourselves by making too many things secret in a way 152 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: that you really couldn't get at information, and of course 153 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: was even truer when you get to the break between 154 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: the FBI's domestic responsibility and the intelligence communities overseas responsibility. Right, 155 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: the mission of the FBI is to bring people to justice. 156 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: That's their mission. They identify somebody who's broken the law, 157 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: they bring a case, it goes to court, the judge 158 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: makes a decision, the jury makes a decision, sentence. Things occurred. 159 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: That's the opposite of what until aigence collection does. Intelligence collection. 160 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: In many cases, they don't want to arrest anybody. They'd 161 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: rather keep that individual as an agent, so they can 162 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: work and accumulate actually going after a more difficult target. 163 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: So their missions are entirely different. So I'm sympathetic as 164 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: to why the communication was occurring the other thing, and 165 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: I think it's likely what happened in Afghanistan. And I 166 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: do remember what Rumsfeld did because he presented his results 167 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: new to the Senate Committee. And the thing that he's 168 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: able to do, and it's just very hard, I think 169 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: with the presidential briefing he's able to do is strip 170 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: away the ambiguity. So the big question there was is 171 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: North Korea's nuclear weapon they had the capability of reaching 172 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: the United States. The agency would come up with an 173 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: analysis and it would say, well, on the one hand, 174 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: on the other hand, maybe sort of, you know, they 175 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: couldn't be as precise. Rumsfild comes in and says he answers, 176 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: absolutely yes, So you can do with that whatever you want. 177 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: But I've done this analysis, and you can love hate 178 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: Donald Rumsfeld, but he was smart atack and very clear 179 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: his presentation. The ambiguity and intelligence analysis can often be 180 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: an enemy as well. President Clinton and I had created 181 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: the Hart Rudman Commissioned to review all of national security, 182 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: and we spent three years in a really thorough first 183 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: one since nineteen forty seven. And when we reported it 184 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: to the Secretary of Defense, this was late in the 185 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: Clinton administration, must have been either November or December. But 186 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: he turned to us and he said, we're going to 187 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: get hit. And he was so sober about it and 188 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 1: so clear about it. He said, I don't know when 189 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: it will happen. I don't know where will happen. But 190 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: there are too many people planning too many things. Well, 191 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remembered or not. I do 192 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: it only because of the nine eleven Commission. I read 193 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: the speech that Rumsfeld gave on the tenth of September 194 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: two thousand and one about the need to really, you know, 195 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: root and branch, change the way the Pentagon is organized. 196 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: I believe you're the one who said the Pentagon needs 197 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,479 Speaker 1: to become a square. There's a tremendous amount of bureaucracy 198 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: inside of that building. I think an full bird colonel 199 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: over there has more staff than Eisenhower did the day before. Overlord, 200 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: if Lloyd Austin decides that he wants to change the 201 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: color of the coffee cups and the mess it'll take 202 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: him a full four years to get it done. I'm 203 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: overstating the case, I know for a fact, but it's 204 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: very difficult. The more people you have participating in decision, 205 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: the harder is to get a decision. Bade. Actually, I 206 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: think McNamara, when he was Secretary Defense said trying to 207 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: change the time of which people went to coffee, it 208 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: was a major challenge inside the building. H Yeah. And 209 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: by the way, the Rumsfeld speech, which I'm using in 210 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: a report I'm doing, and the need to profoundly overhaul 211 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: the Pentagon, but the Roosevelt speech of September tenth is amazing. 212 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: He'd asked me to come in as an adviser back 213 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: in oh I guess March, and we had been working 214 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: on a bunch of this stuff. I think had we 215 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: not had nine to eleven, the degree to which Rumsfeld 216 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: would have overhauled the Pentagon would have been shocking and 217 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: would have been a major contribution. I agree with that. Yeah, 218 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: and you remember the trouble Chuck Hagel guy, because he 219 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: had said before he was nominated, one thing he had 220 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: to sort of unravel was he said, the bureaucracy at 221 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: the Pentagon has bloated, and he got in trouble. He 222 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: was criticized when he went before the Armed Services Committee 223 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: for having said that all you have to do is 224 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: walk through the building one time with your eyes open, 225 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,599 Speaker 1: and you see that. But that also goes back to 226 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: your earlier point. Does a bipartisan common the Congress of 227 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: both Republican and Democrat has had no ability to look 228 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: at itself. He came in after the intelligence committees were 229 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: established after I think seventy four seventy five. But if 230 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: you're on the Intelligence Committee, you should not be on 231 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: any other committee. That should be it. They should have 232 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: appropriation authority instead, and the House Committee has more authority 233 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: than the Senate committee. We proposed equalizing and they did either. 234 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: Just to look at the record, I mean, this is 235 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: going to sound a little partisan. I'll equalize it in 236 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: my second sentence. But I think congressman unions turned the 237 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: committee into something other than what it was supposed to be. 238 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: And then what has it become when the Democrats to 239 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: get the majority back, it becomes the appeachment Committee. In 240 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: both cases it was a misuse of congressional oversight, which 241 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: is already in my view, I say grossly underperforming. It's 242 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: tough business to do oversight, and really difficult in a 243 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: secret environment. By the way, I think you were being 244 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: too generous going to a square. It probably ought to 245 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: be a triangle. I actually went to triangle. I said, 246 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: if you could reduce the Pentagon to a triangle and 247 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: turned the rest of it into a national Museum of 248 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: Military Affairs, we would have a better defense system. He 249 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: might actually want to consider saying the problem is with 250 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: a Pentagon it's close or the two lines that never connect. Well, 251 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: you know, the building was completed the year I was born. 252 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:12,599 Speaker 1: I'm now seventy eight. It was designed to be a 253 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: manager of global war at a time when people had 254 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: manual typewriters in carbon paper, So twenty three thousand people 255 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: we're trying to keep track of a worldwide American commitment. 256 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: Today we have laptops and smartphones and all those things, 257 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: and you have to say to yourself, what's the relative 258 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: efficiency of an iPad or a laptop compared to a 259 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: manual typewriter with carbon paper, And literally you should be 260 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: able to shrink the Pentagon to at most a third 261 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: of its current size. Same way with Intel. Also, among 262 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: the things, it's both a threat. It's a threat, I 263 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: would say technically the Internet has made it much more 264 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: difficult to defend ourselves, particularly in cyber where you know, somebody, 265 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: say in the basement, can basically come after you. But 266 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: the Iranians, the Chinese, and North Koreans, the Russians, they're 267 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: all coming after us. So that threat, I mean, I 268 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: can imagine a situation where the fifth Fleete gets disabled 269 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: in the Persian Gulf as a consequence of hacking. The 270 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: nature of the threat has dramatically changed since two thousand 271 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: and one as a consequence of the thing I'm holding 272 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: right now, an iPhone, and other sorts of technological changes 273 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: that makes it really really difficult to go after somebody 274 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: who looks like you and me. Well, you know it's 275 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: fascinating is we're doing a paper right now on TikTok. 276 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: TikTok now has more hours of viewing than Facebook, and 277 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: it's a Chinese system and they're gathering data and people 278 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: are paying the Chinese to allow them to gather data. 279 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: Do you look at this and you think, are we 280 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: just totally nuts? And the answer of courses, yes, we 281 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: are totally nuts. And one of the examples I have 282 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: to ask you about because it fits right back into 283 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: the nine to eleven Commission report, all named college Saik 284 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: Muhammad as the mastermind, the principal architect of the nine 285 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: eleven attacks. As I understand it, he's now in pre 286 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: trial twenty years later. I mean, how can this possibly 287 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: make any sense? Well, I mean, his nephew is in 288 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: a maximum security prison. He's already been sentenced for the 289 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: ninety three bombing. No, it doesn't make any sense at all, 290 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: and the evidence is absolute. Not again, a lawyer will 291 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: tell me, oh, no, that all his confessions have been 292 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: compromised because they were delivered through enhanced interrogations. I doubt 293 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: that that would hold up that accusation in any courtroom. Personally, 294 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: I think they should have brought him into civilian court, 295 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: tried him. We got him out. The BOMBA administrations did that, 296 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: but they made a terrible mistake and didn't call the 297 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: mayor ahead of time. So they were starting to move 298 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: him up to Brooklyn to try him over in Manhattan, 299 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, and if you don't let the mayor know 300 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: that's going to happen, it makes it difficult to carry 301 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: out the plan. But yeah, it's ridiculous that he's in 302 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: pre trial after twenty years, they could have moved a 303 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: civilian court to Guntanamo. Yeah, they could have done that 304 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: as well. But I mean, I'm sitting here as an 305 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: American thinking my country is now so wrapped up in 306 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: itself that twenty years afterwards, and then I'm told that 307 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: the pre trial may literally run for another year, and 308 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: that the first step of the pre trial will be 309 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: proving that the guy who's the judge is legitimate as 310 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: the judge. He would either have been executed or be 311 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: serving a life sentence right now if they'd have brought 312 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: him to federal court as he did his nephew who 313 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: planned the first attack on the World Trade Center. I 314 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: completely agree with you. It's gone on way, way too long. 315 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: It must be agonizing for the families. I know it 316 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: was when the Nine Loving Commission all the way back then, 317 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: it was agonizing that we still hadn't done anything. The 318 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: experience of withdrawal from Afghanistan around the twentieth anniversary must 319 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: just be a further round of pain. Yeah, I'm sure 320 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: that's true. So in your online, what should Americans take 321 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: out twenty years of trying to deal with all this? 322 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, well, first of all, I hope you don't 323 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: hunker down the bunker like we did after Vietnam, because, 324 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: if nothing else, the collapse of the Afghanistan government and 325 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,239 Speaker 1: military forces and the resurgence of the Taliban shows you 326 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: what a relatively small presence of military force of Americans 327 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: can do. Lots of mistakes over the last twenty years. 328 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: I said it before, it's worth saying again. When you're 329 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: looking back, it's so easy to see mistakes made, and 330 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: we made a lot of them. We probably after we 331 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: defeated the Taliban in late two thousand and one early 332 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,719 Speaker 1: two thousand and two, maybe we should have brought him 333 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: into the government. I don't know. And then secondly, once 334 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: you try to stand up a military and create a 335 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: government that looks like us in a country that is 336 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: still largely tribal, that's hard to do. But we were 337 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: well motivated because we know ourselves how important freedom is, 338 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: how important it is to be able to decide what 339 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: you want to do and what you're going to say, etc. 340 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: And we price it and we did create a free space, 341 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: mostly in Cobble but in some of the outer provinces 342 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: as well. But it's impossible actually for me to look 343 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: at that and say, well, it was all worthwhile. I 344 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: mean watching the Taliban come back into the government's painful. 345 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: And if you lost a loved one in nine to eleven, 346 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: this is the twentieth anniversary of nine to eleven, it's 347 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: got to be doubly painful. I think that it's so 348 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: difficult for Americans to contemplate losing, but I think unless 349 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: we can have an honest conversation about the twenty years, 350 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: it's very hard to see how we get the scale 351 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: of reform we're going to have to have if we're 352 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: going to survive in the future. I think that's right. 353 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: In this particular case, I don't see it as much 354 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: as losing as we just decided to withdraw. And by 355 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: the way, I think one of the mistakes is we 356 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: picked the wrong guy. We backed Ghani instead of Abdullah 357 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: billah Bill is still there. You know. Ghani took X 358 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: a million dollars and went to Ua to get away 359 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: from it all again. I'll repeat it for sure. It's 360 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: easier for me to criticize what somebody in power is 361 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: doing than it is. As you know, once you're in 362 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: there and you're having to make the decisions, it gets 363 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: measurably more difficult, and secondly, it's easy to look back. 364 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: My hope is that the anglish we feel, the anger 365 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: that we feel, doesn't cause us to get to a 366 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: point where we're afraid to do any kind of intervention 367 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: in the world, regardless of what it is, whether it's 368 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: low level, high level, because for the most part, our 369 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: interventions are well motivated. You can disagree with them, so 370 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: we shouldn't never have gone to Reckon. By the way, 371 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: they have an election in October that right now it's 372 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: headed in the right direction. It's a burden to have 373 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: been born in America and care about freedom. We are 374 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: still the most powerful nation economically, politically, and militarily. It'd 375 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: been better to have been born someplace else it's easier. 376 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: It's hard to assume the burden of citizenship in the 377 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: United States. It isn't easy, and you find yourself in 378 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: these moments where you look back and say, gosh, we 379 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: made a mistake. There's so much that we can now 380 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: see that causes to reach conclusions of intervening in what 381 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: the decision makers are doing. Let to put it this way, 382 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: if the internet was around in seventeen seventy seven, George 383 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: Washington had been relieved at command, you know, and he 384 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: wasn't relieved in command because that was a bad year 385 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: for his leadership, and at least a third of the 386 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: Congress was trying to figure out how to fire him. 387 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: It was amazing. Would you mind just for a couple 388 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: of minutes describing the university you're working with, because it 389 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: is in terms of a positive future and the kind 390 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: of innovation that has made America a remarkable country. I 391 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: think you may be onto something really big. Well, I'm 392 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: sure you feel the same way. Higher education is really important. 393 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: We still have a comparative advantage in that space. Among 394 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: the things I typically say to people when the day 395 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: isn't China overtaking us? They said, yeah, in some areas 396 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: they are. But answer this question, how long is the 397 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 1: line of people trying to get into the United States? 398 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: And how long is the line of people trying to 399 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: get into China? As far as I can tell, there's 400 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: no line trying to get into China, and there's a 401 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: very long line trying to get in ear in part 402 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: because of our university systems. The challenge, it seems to 403 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: me it is very much like the Pentagon. There's a 404 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: tendency to get bureaucratized, and change is hard. I mean, 405 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: if you talk to anybody in higher education about changing 406 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: the general education curriculum, they'll describe it like a failed 407 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: military campaign. So we begin newt by saying you can 408 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: teach human beings how to think critically. And every university 409 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: has it on their website and very few actually start 410 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: and say how do you do it. There's lots of 411 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: research on how people learn and how they organize themselves 412 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: and how they think. So our first year we teach 413 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: our undergraduates how to think. It's completely need blind. We 414 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,239 Speaker 1: don't use the SAT or the ACT because those things are, 415 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, they're rigged. So if you're accepted, 416 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: that's when you look at your financial capacity. We don't 417 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: try to get geographical diversity as well. It's just do 418 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: you get across the line. And the second thing we 419 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: do is you say, we're not going to spend a 420 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: penny unless you can actually demonstrate its adding value to 421 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: the cause. So we built a virtual classroom. You open 422 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: your laptop and you go to class, meaning I can 423 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: recruit faculty all over the country, I can recruit students 424 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: all over the world. You don't need to physically be 425 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: where the school itself is being taught, although it is 426 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: a residential program. So our kids come to San Francisco 427 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: their first year. They spend an entire year essentially learning 428 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: how to think, acquiring the habits of mind to do 429 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: simple things, and then they select what they're going to study. 430 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: They go to six different countries, one each semester for 431 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: the next three years before they graduate. But we're collecting 432 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: data all the time. We evaluate our faculty, row our software, 433 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: we evaluate our students, we take net Promoter scores, and 434 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: we're constantly changing the curriculum. We don't have to have 435 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: meetings to change the curriculum because the data we collect 436 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: shows us what works and what doesn't work. We have 437 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: a long line of faculty they want to teach at 438 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: Manerva in spite of the fact that we don't have tenure, 439 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: in part because we want to maintain a very high 440 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: standard of teaching. And as you know, you know, I 441 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: can be a great teacher one year and allousy teacher 442 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: the next, but just because I lose interest in doing 443 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: it or something happens in my life. So if you 444 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: talk to the students, they'll tell you why they like 445 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: what Manerva is offering, and we put almost as much 446 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: time in the extracurriculter work, hooking it up with businesses, 447 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: not for profits government, so they learn as you and 448 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: I have learned. When you're doing problem solving, oftentimes the 449 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: choice is between bad and terrible. It's not between good 450 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: and lousy. It's bad and terrible, and you got to 451 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: make a decision. And the bad news is sometimes you 452 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: make a good decision, sometimes you don't, but you got 453 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: to live with it either way. You can't point the 454 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: finger and blame it on society. You've got to step 455 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: up and accept responsibility for it. So these are the 456 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: sorts of things that we're doing. It's quite exciting. We 457 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: just got regional accreditation from WASP and now the chairman 458 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 1: of it. We just recruited our first president. And it's 459 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: fun because it is important. We have six hundred students 460 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: will probably go to twelve or fifteen hundred, and you 461 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: can see these young people. They're going to be leaders, 462 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: They're going to be problem solvers in the private sector 463 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 1: of government. They're going to be able to do things 464 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: that they wouldn't have been able to do without the 465 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: opportunity to go to the school so people can find it. 466 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: What's the uro. Listeners can find all they need to 467 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: know about Minerva Universities on the website is Minerva dot edu. 468 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: We'll put it on our show page so people can 469 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: link to it. I remember you talking to me, I 470 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: think almost ten years ago about this concept. I've always 471 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: been fascinated by it, and I think we need this 472 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 1: kind of renewal and this kind of innovative thinking to 473 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: continue probing. What's possible in self government is to send 474 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: that individuals acquire their path to think critically, and all 475 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: too often they tend to orient to where they're expected 476 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: to be. The most important thing for somebody who's thinking 477 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: critically is having the courage necessary. If they're the only 478 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: one and a group of one hundred that's saying no, 479 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 1: well everybody else is saying yes. They got to say no. 480 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: You got to have the courage to stand up and 481 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 1: tell people what you actually believe based upon your own analysis. 482 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: It does get shut down too often today, in part 483 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: because you know way too many people are woke, and 484 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: you know they don't want to have anything that's offensive 485 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: set out loud, but in part because it's hard. You'd 486 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: much rather get around of applause and get booed listen. 487 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: I really appreciate your taking the time to be with 488 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: us today, and it's always invigorating to talk with you 489 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,479 Speaker 1: because your mind never stops. I really loved when we 490 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: were co chairing things Alzheimer's wanted, particularly We've made an 491 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: impact that was good, that was good work. I remember 492 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: when you and I reported to the Senate, the largest 493 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: number of senators I'd ever seen at that kind of 494 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: a hearing, and it was because every one of them 495 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: had a family connection to Alls Hunters. Their interest in 496 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: our report was very personal. Thank you to my guest 497 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: and good friend, Senator Bob Carey. You can read more 498 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: about the twentieth anniversary of the September eleventh attacks, and 499 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: you can also be connected to Minerva University on our 500 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by 501 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: Gingwistreet sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Debbie Myers, 502 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: our producer is Garnsey Sloan, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 503 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. 504 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Gingwich three sixty. If 505 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple 506 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give 507 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about. 508 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtswork, I'll can sign up from 509 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: my three free weekly columns at Gngwish three sixty dot 510 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: com slash newsletter. I'm new Gangwish. This is Newsworld