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Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to I Choose Me. I've been talking to doctor

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Speaker 1: Maria Sophocles about midlife and menopause, not about the symptoms

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Speaker 1: we usually hear about or talk about, the hot flashes,

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Speaker 1: the mood swings, but how our bodies react to sex, desire,

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Speaker 1: and pleasure. I've asked doctor Maria to give us some

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Speaker 1: hot tips for jumping back into the bedroom. So let's

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Speaker 1: get into it all right, let's talk about talking about

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Speaker 1: sex with our partner. One of the first things you

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Speaker 1: can do when you want to improve the state of

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Speaker 1: your sex life is deciding to communicate, which is easier

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Speaker 1: said than done. So what are the first steps to

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Speaker 1: communicating when you've had some weeks or maybe months without

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Speaker 1: sex in your relationship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the first thing, just like acknowledging a

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Speaker 2: drinking problem or a food addiction or whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: is to say there is a problem here, me rolling

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Speaker 2: over and just pretending I'm enjoying my book is not

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Speaker 2: okay and acknowledging it to yourself and then figuring out

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Speaker 2: how you're going to start that first conversation. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna. I don't. I don't. I won't do

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Speaker 2: the whole book, but I think some little giveaways are important.

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Speaker 2: I think having that first conversation for some people is

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Speaker 2: easier in a car or on a walk because you're

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Speaker 2: actually looking forward. It's a little like the therapist couch.

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Speaker 2: You're not like looking at each other's eyes and being

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Speaker 2: the awkward what kind of eye roll or something.

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Speaker 1: That is so expressive that it's a good idea to

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Speaker 1: not be able to stay my face when you're talking

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Speaker 1: to me.

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Speaker 2: I mean, everybody is to do us best for them,

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Speaker 2: but I am guilty of sharing with my husband my

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Speaker 2: judgment through my face, which is not always good. It

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Speaker 2: does not give the it's not polite. So I've learned

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Speaker 2: that for us, the walks are the best. We have

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Speaker 2: a beautiful walk in nature. We live in Princeton, New Jersey,

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Speaker 2: and it's justrgeous and we walk forward and that's where

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Speaker 2: we have our you know, sexual check ins or any

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Speaker 2: tough conversations you know that we have to have.

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Speaker 1: That's a great tip.

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Speaker 2: The other thing is, really, as I mentioned before, to

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Speaker 2: frame it in a positive way. A lot of what

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Speaker 2: I talk about in the book is sort of being

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Speaker 2: mindful and practicing basic mindfulness for yourself alone to get

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Speaker 2: your head ready for sex or even just for sleep.

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Speaker 2: But I think you could incorporate some of that when

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Speaker 2: you prepare and think about how you're going to talk,

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Speaker 2: meaning do it in a non judgmental way and really

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Speaker 2: be there. Don't have your cell phone like you're talking

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Speaker 2: but you're actually scrolling. I mean, nothing says this is

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Speaker 2: not important to me better than having your cell phone

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Speaker 2: in your hand, right, and for that matter, keep it

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Speaker 2: out of the bedroom. You know, thirty five percent of

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Speaker 2: Americans check their cell phone right after sex. Like, come on, guys,

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Speaker 2: Like what kind of message does that give? And what

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Speaker 2: text could possibly be worth giving your partner that message?

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Speaker 2: For so right, and if you still keep it in

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Speaker 2: your bedroom, even take a baby step and move the

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Speaker 2: charging to like the other side of the bedroom or

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Speaker 2: down like I have mine down the steps and in

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Speaker 2: a little hallway. It's less convenient, it's a pain, but

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Speaker 2: it's a message to my husband that I care enough

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Speaker 2: about him that I don't want it there, and it

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Speaker 2: sort of made him do the same, you know, And

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Speaker 2: I think getting our bedroom physically in a space keep

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Speaker 2: it cool. You don't want it too hot so you

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Speaker 2: sleep better. Don't pile it with bills, tax stuff, laundry, kid,

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Speaker 2: no lacrosse sticks. Like the bedroom should be a private place,

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Speaker 2: and your problems, whatever they are, the laundry or whatever.

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Speaker 2: If you have the luxury, it should be outside that room,

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Speaker 2: one hundred per yes, And then the talk should be

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Speaker 2: non judgmental.

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Speaker 1: Give me one sentence, like what's the opening sentence.

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Speaker 2: The opening sentence would be, you know. So, I know

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Speaker 2: we haven't had any intimate life for a while, and

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Speaker 2: I know that a lot of that has to do

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Speaker 2: with me, and I've had a lot of stress. I've

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Speaker 2: had a lot of anxiety about my weight, or my

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Speaker 2: mom's illness, or the fact that our son dropped out

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Speaker 2: of college or whatever. But I feel like I'm never

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Speaker 2: going to get back there unless we can talk about it.

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Speaker 2: And I need you to know that I think my body's changing,

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Speaker 2: and I am going to see my doctor, but I

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Speaker 2: don't have an appointment for two months. But I wonder

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Speaker 2: if in the meantime we could just try some cuddling.

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Speaker 2: Like I tell here's an aside. I give my patients homework,

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Speaker 2: and I say, every Friday, for thirty minutes, share a

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Speaker 2: big oversized chair and just cuddle and giggle and no

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Speaker 2: phones and no talking politics or taxes or anything difficult,

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Speaker 2: and just remember what it was like when you were

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Speaker 2: giggly and flirty, and just remember the humor and remember

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Speaker 2: just even touching cheeks and necks and g or PG

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Speaker 2: rated parts and just start like that. And so I

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Speaker 2: think if you're doing that opening talk and you can

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Speaker 2: reframe it as not I know you did enough sex

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Speaker 2: and you probably want to, but I'm really stressed out,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't go anywhere because they're going to be like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I really wish we did, and that doesn't help you.

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Speaker 2: But you could reframe and lead the conversation to something

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Speaker 2: you do think would be mutually positive, and if they

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Speaker 2: hopefully are evolved enough to meet you there, then you begin.

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Speaker 2: They can't climb a mountain until you drag some stones

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Speaker 2: up the hill, right, you can't move a mountain. Someone said,

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Speaker 2: So I think you start like that, and or you

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Speaker 2: start with a compliment. You know when we went to

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Speaker 2: the mountains and I loved it when you did this

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Speaker 2: or that. But something about acknowledging that you are aware,

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Speaker 2: because they all think there's a silent treatment right, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's okay, and it's okay to take some

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Speaker 2: of the blame. There shouldn't be any blame at all,

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Speaker 2: but take some for the team and say because hopefully

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Speaker 2: they'll be like, hey, it's me too. You know, I

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Speaker 2: just thought you're mad at me or something, and you

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Speaker 2: use that as an immediate example of you know, some

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Speaker 2: things I am kind of mad about. I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: mad that you blah blah blah. But you know, I

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Speaker 2: realize now that that isn't the biggest deal and our

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Speaker 2: fifteen year marriage is actually much more important to me.

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Speaker 2: So whatever the potential negative is, instead of launching down

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Speaker 2: that rabbit hole, you can pivot it towards forgiveness or understanding. Man,

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Speaker 2: will they feel good? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely changes the dynamic.

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Speaker 2: So I role play with a lot of I'm licensed

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Speaker 2: in like eleven states, so often my patients and I

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Speaker 2: just have virtual meetings like this and we role play,

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Speaker 2: and it's really helpful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very helpful to sort of hear it out

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Speaker 1: loud because we play it over in our head. Now

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Speaker 1: we think it's going to go, and then sometimes it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't come out that way.

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Speaker 2: And it's better to practice let's say in the mirror

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Speaker 2: or with me, and then hear yourself slip into judgment

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Speaker 2: or finger pointing and go, wait, that is not because

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Speaker 2: that may be kind of what you're feeling, whether it

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Speaker 2: was an affair or a who knows, they wreck the

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Speaker 2: car and you just can't forgive them. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: People get pissy about stuff that shouldn't interfere because remember

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Speaker 2: we talked about the benefits of intimacy, and you just

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Speaker 2: got to remember because once people have sex again, they're like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, this is so great. Why we do this?

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Speaker 1: We do this times, we do this more often, and.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes you know it. It's as simple as well, your

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Speaker 2: new job makes you stay up really late, and that

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Speaker 2: was when i used to like to have sex. So

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Speaker 2: now I'm into this Netflix thing and it just killed it.

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Speaker 2: And maybe either you decide you're going to initiate and

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Speaker 2: have sex in the morning, which is a kind of

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Speaker 2: fun surprise, or you say I have an idea, let's

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Speaker 2: one night a week, make sure all work stops by x,

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Speaker 2: you know, a thirty PM. And even if we don't

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Speaker 2: go to bed till ten thirty. We got to get

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Speaker 2: all that out of our heads. Even if we do

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Speaker 2: just sort of cleaning up or play a game or something,

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Speaker 2: and then at ten thirty that night we're going to

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Speaker 2: get in bed, not exhaust And even if we only cuddle,

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Speaker 2: that would make me so happy, Like you can make

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Speaker 2: a baby step that isn't crazy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what does your partner need to know about your

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Speaker 1: changing body?

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Speaker 2: That it's inevitable, but that hopefully, I mean, at least

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Speaker 2: my patients, we work on their body changing in a

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Speaker 2: positive way. We work on higher approachein intake, lower carbs,

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Speaker 2: strength training, because menopausal weight gain is a bitch and

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Speaker 2: it's really self esteem killing, and yet it is really improvable,

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Speaker 2: it truly is. So I work with my patients a

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Speaker 2: lot on that. But you know, wrinkles are not just

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Speaker 2: from sun exposure. There are again no estrogen collagen changes.

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Speaker 2: Breast sagging is an actual human, real thing and maybe

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Speaker 2: not in LA but in the rest of ours. And

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Speaker 2: that honestly, when you really ask most men, I mean

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Speaker 2: other than the super super superficial asshole men, they really

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Speaker 2: love your body at any age or stage. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they're so pumped to be having sex, like they don't

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Speaker 2: even care.

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Speaker 1: You think they carerue it's so true, because whatever's going

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Speaker 1: on in my head is definitely not going on in

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Speaker 1: his oath. No, and you think it is. Our parents

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Speaker 1: are so strong and powerful that I do think whatever

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Speaker 1: we're thinking, they're thinking. But it's oftentimes not even in

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Speaker 1: their gas.

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Speaker 2: Wildest it's five hundred and fiftieth on their thing. And

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you a really funny study from like thirty

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Speaker 2: years ago. They did a study on women who weighed

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Speaker 2: I'm not kidding, four hundred pounds, so not like a

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Speaker 2: little overweight, not like la in her thoughts, and they

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Speaker 2: haven't had their work done yet, like massive, massively overweight.

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Speaker 2: And they interviewed the sexual partners and they question they asked,

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Speaker 2: was does her weight bother you or inhibit your interest

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Speaker 2: in her sexually? And one hundred percent of the men

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Speaker 2: said something to the effect of, I don't understand the question,

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Speaker 2: or what are you talking about? Like not one of

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Speaker 2: the guys said that, like every guy, they were just

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Speaker 2: happy to be having sex. So if they're happy with

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Speaker 2: four hundred pounds, believe me, they're okay with your one

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Speaker 2: thirty two.

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Speaker 1: With your menobelly, with your meno belly.

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Speaker 2: However, if things are dry and painful and you're wincing

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Speaker 2: or you're bleeding or you're crying, and I hear this

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Speaker 2: a it recks their game. But much more importantly, you're

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Speaker 2: going to start dreading it and you're going to start

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Speaker 2: hoping for anything else. So get thee to a doctor,

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Speaker 2: because it's really fixable. I mean, that's like, I can't

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Speaker 2: say that over and over again enough because I just

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Speaker 2: it's a not necessary way to impart relationship wrecking stuff.

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Speaker 2: And they want you to be have pleasure, they really do,

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Speaker 2: and they want you to enjoy it, and they do care.

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Speaker 2: I mean every man. I've interviewed men literally all over

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Speaker 2: the globe about this. It is universal, even the assholes

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Speaker 2: who think there's so much eismo you'd think they wouldn't care.

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Speaker 2: It's a reflection on them. So they want you to Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, they want you to have fun.

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Speaker 1: They do, they do. They want to have fun too.

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Speaker 1: You talk about some causes for low sexual desire, and

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Speaker 1: I want to make sure my listeners know what these

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Speaker 1: are so we can start naming them and sort of

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Speaker 1: debunking them and asking more questions. So I'm going to

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Speaker 1: mention the cause and you tell me why we may

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Speaker 1: be having that issue. Okay, go pain. Sexual pain either.

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Speaker 2: Because of GSM, that's the number one. Number two if

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Speaker 2: fits with deep penetration from endometriosis that you might have

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Speaker 2: or might not have it diagnosed, or scarring if you

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Speaker 2: had surgery see sections or topic pregnancy. Sexual pain can

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Speaker 2: be from something called vulvodinia, this obscure pain of the

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Speaker 2: vulva that gets poorly diagnosed. So if you can't figure

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Speaker 2: it out, you need to see a volvodinia specialist. And

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Speaker 2: there's something called the NVA National Volvdinia Association. I think

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Speaker 2: you should type that out. Is going to be able

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Speaker 2: to like that's, you know, really a hard word, but

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Speaker 2: it is a cause for pain. It's like unexplained pain.

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Speaker 2: Other pain is usually people who've had surgery or radiation

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Speaker 2: down there, or they they have arthritis and their hips hurt,

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Speaker 2: you know, and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Yep, Okay, So sex ed is there not enough out

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Speaker 1: there or we're getting the wrong kinds?

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Speaker 2: Well, we need adult sex head for you and I

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Speaker 2: and our peeps. I mean, we talked about the teens

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Speaker 2: and young adults needing new sex d that's got to

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Speaker 2: come from state level change. And as I said, forty

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Speaker 2: seven states are doing it wrong. So that's just where

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Speaker 2: a D minus minus in America. But Adult Sex said,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be creating either a substack or I'm

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Speaker 2: going to create a course for adult sex head. So

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Speaker 2: people like like you can log in and have eight

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Speaker 2: lessons and it can be for your partner and it

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Speaker 2: can be about all these things in the book and

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Speaker 2: then they can watch it over and over. And I

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Speaker 2: think that'll be really helpful because nobody does that for

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Speaker 2: us now. No one tells about menopause, perimenopause, papal sex, now,

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Speaker 2: orgasm changes. Yeah, you know the fact that your clerics

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Speaker 2: actually shrinks, Like who tells you that?

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Speaker 1: No? Yeah, I've read that my claris is the size

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Speaker 1: of a penis.

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Speaker 2: It is, so the outer part is like the tip

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Speaker 2: of an iceberg, this teeny little bit, but there's an

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Speaker 2: entire inside part to the organ which wasn't even discovered

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Speaker 2: until like the last couple decades. Duh, But we've known

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Speaker 2: about the penis anatomy for what thousands of years? It's enormous. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's like four inches, So we have every bit as

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Speaker 2: much as Amanda's ours is just inside.

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Speaker 1: Yes, how about depression?

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Speaker 2: Depression is an enormous. We call it a comorbidity. Depressed

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Speaker 2: people have a hard time finding joy and sex, and

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Speaker 2: people with sexual dysfunction like a rectil dysfunction or vaginal dryness,

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Speaker 2: have a lot of depression. If you have underlying depression, uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm not saying everybody's treatable, but certain treating

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Speaker 2: it is a great way to also see sexual issues

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Speaker 2: as cup half full, not half empty. So depressions very

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Speaker 2: linked to sexual function.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Stress, we all have stress in our lives. Why

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Speaker 1: does it make low sexual desire worse in midlife?

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Speaker 2: Because you can't clear your head when you're stressed. You

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Speaker 2: can't be there now. I have a baseball cap I

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Speaker 2: wear that just says be here now, and you cannot

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Speaker 2: do that in the bedroom if you have stress. Most

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Speaker 2: women cannot. They have this on loop. You know, the job,

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Speaker 2: the kid, or I can't get out of my money problems,

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Speaker 2: whatever it is. And so I would say, unfortunately, you've

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Speaker 2: got to work on cleaning up the stress, and sometimes

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Speaker 2: just practicing mindfulness based meditation can do that. There's a

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Speaker 2: woman named Lori Brato l r I Brotto. She runs

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Speaker 2: a mindfulness based sex therapy course that uses mindfulness to

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Speaker 2: help clear your head so you can have better sex.

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Speaker 2: Pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, Yes, what about body image? We kind of talked

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Speaker 1: about that before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, if you if you look in the mirror

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Speaker 2: and all you see is moles and cellulate and scars,

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Speaker 2: you're going to bring that and you're going to spectator,

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Speaker 2: meaning you're going to be watching all your ugliness in bed.

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Speaker 2: That is a death now forget it. You're just going

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Speaker 2: to never, never be fully present to be able to

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Speaker 2: enjoy the pleasure that your partner hopefully is trying to

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Speaker 2: give you. And how do we How do we change that? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we change that by by loving the body we have,

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Speaker 2: the knowing that no, we don't have a twenty five

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Speaker 2: year old body and we never will again, but that

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Speaker 2: our body in some ways is more liberated. That we're

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Speaker 2: not as judgmental about our body as a twenty five

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Speaker 2: year old. Believe it or not, breast sagging or wrinkles

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Speaker 2: or cellulat or whatever it is. Believe it or not,

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Speaker 2: most of us embrace and understand age better than a

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Speaker 2: twenty five year old and say, my body's okay. It's

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Speaker 2: actually the twenty five year olds that really stress about

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Speaker 2: how they look in a bikini and whatever.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's such a wasted feeling. It's such

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Speaker 1: a waste of time, you know, Jenny.

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Speaker 2: I spend every summer in Greece, and all the women

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Speaker 2: in Greece wear bikinis. Nobody wears one pieces. So I've

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Speaker 2: been going for twenty three years. So I wear a

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Speaker 2: bikini and I'm fit. I weigh what I were weighed

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Speaker 2: in high school. But I have a fifty nine year

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Speaker 2: old body. But I'm comfortable in it because all the

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Speaker 2: other women on the islands are comfortable in their bodies

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Speaker 2: at sixty seventy eighty. So I think some of it

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Speaker 2: is the environment, and if you're in a toxic environment,

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Speaker 2: just just find the freedom to say this is me,

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Speaker 2: and I kind of love who I am. It's really hard.

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Speaker 2: It's hard in this country, for sure.

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Speaker 1: I love to look in the mirror. I don't love it,

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Speaker 1: but I do. I do this. I look in the

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Speaker 1: mirror and I look at my body and I'm naked,

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Speaker 1: and I think, Wow, look where, Look how far you've come.

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Speaker 1: Look at all that you've done, Look at those scars,

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Speaker 1: Like I really take that moment to appreciate this body

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Speaker 1: that's lived all of these years with me and how

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Speaker 1: well it's holding together.

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Speaker 2: You are amazing. I mean, you need to go on

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Speaker 2: book tour with me, like that's what I want women

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Speaker 2: to articulate and feel. But it's hard.

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Speaker 1: What about one more attention or lack of attention?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I mean, so we know, by the way,

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Speaker 2: so ADD has become an epidemic. Right when you and

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Speaker 2: I were kids, nobody even had it, and then as

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Speaker 2: we grew it became a diagnosis, and then there were

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Speaker 2: meds for it, which meant then there were even more

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Speaker 2: prescriptions and more people getting diagnosed. And now we understand

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Speaker 2: actually that perimenopause and menopause affect ADD negatively. They enhance it,

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Speaker 2: they make it worse. So a lot of women in

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Speaker 2: perimenopause and menopause with or without ADD have attention issues.

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Speaker 2: They have trouble finishing an email before they go to

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Speaker 2: the next one. And we live in a society where

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Speaker 2: we have so many different screens and so many different

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Speaker 2: inputs that it actually just makes all that worse. So

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Speaker 2: it's very common to climb into bed with one hundred

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Speaker 2: things on our brain and at least two screens. So

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Speaker 2: you have to Yeah, you have to actively push the

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Speaker 2: screens away, limit the screen time. And I'm being a hypocrite.

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Speaker 1: I am guilty of guilty.

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Speaker 2: Of having trouble focusing on attention, you know, focusing my attention.

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Speaker 2: But when I do in life, I'm more productive, and

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Speaker 2: when I do in the bedroom, I have more pleasure.

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Speaker 2: And so I just you know, I'm speaking at just

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Speaker 2: end of one. I know that when I can, and

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Speaker 2: that's where that Lori Brodo mindfulness course might be a

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Speaker 2: really cool thing for listeners to look into, because if

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Speaker 2: you can practice mind the definition of mindfulness is sort

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Speaker 2: of being in the present moment without judgment or without

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Speaker 2: really distraction and deriving what you need to derive from

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Speaker 2: that moment. So if you apply it to sex, it's

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Speaker 2: pretty powerful. Or even just listening, you know.

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Speaker 1: Just reading the book and talking to you. It reaffirms

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Speaker 1: the importance of the relationship, the health of the relationship,

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Speaker 1: not just the relationship, but the sex are sex life like,

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Speaker 1: it really makes you sort of hmm. This is something

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Speaker 1: I actually need to put back on the top of

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Speaker 1: my priority list.

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Speaker 2: Because it's literally all the effort and money and time

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Speaker 2: we put into sleep, sleep nutrition, movement. Personal trainers biohacking supplements.

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Speaker 2: You can do all of that, and I'm not saying don't,

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Speaker 2: but if you let sex become low priority, it can

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Speaker 2: have really profound effects on self esteem, on the relationship,

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Speaker 2: and I would argue on your health ultimately. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's something called sex span, which is just how long

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Speaker 2: we stay sexually vibrant, and sex span actually relates to

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Speaker 2: health span, so I actually view it as almost it's

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Speaker 2: a fifth pillar of longevity after sleep, nutrition, movement, and

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Speaker 2: social connectivity, all of which are critical, of course, and

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Speaker 2: we don't need a lot of fancy toys or money

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Speaker 2: to do that. We need sort of intentionality. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's sort of like people say I don't have time

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Speaker 2: to exercise. Those are actually the people that should put

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Speaker 2: in their calendar before their first Zoom meeting thirty minutes

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Speaker 2: of walking or weightlifting, whatever it is they're going to do,

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Speaker 2: and just make it a time slot. And some of

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Speaker 2: my patients we actually have to like have them schedule sex.

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Speaker 2: I know that sounds really unsexy and not spontaneous, but

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Speaker 2: I have to ask them to do it because they're

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Speaker 2: convinced that their lives are too busy and their jobs

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Speaker 2: are just too important. And my kids, I can't miss

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Speaker 2: a single soccer game, and they put all these barriers

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Speaker 2: and then they collapse exhausted. And then when we get

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Speaker 2: them to force it, you know, they're like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: it's so great. I just want to do it on

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Speaker 2: my own now. So sometimes we have to kind of

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Speaker 2: schedule it. I know that doesn't sound great.

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Speaker 1: But no, it's true. It's important. We got to get

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Speaker 1: it on the calendar.

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Speaker 2: We do have to. You make it a date night

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Speaker 2: if you have to use say we're gonna have a

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Speaker 2: date night once a month, and we're gonna actually go

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Speaker 2: to an airbnb or a hotel or something thirty minutes away.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to go to you know, you don't

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Speaker 1: have to get on a plane, right.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to. I mean, I love travel, but

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Speaker 2: I've learned that some of the most wonderful moments with

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Speaker 2: my husband were just simple moments where we were somewhere

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Speaker 2: very regular, but we made time for each other and

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Speaker 2: just spoke honestly or had time together. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, the fabulous places are fabulous, and that's great,

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Speaker 2: but really it's it's the human connectivity. And you hit

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Speaker 2: the nail on the head with intimacy. You really did

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Speaker 2: define it.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: If you can define that in your relationship and foster that,

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Speaker 2: the rest is icing on a cake.

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Speaker 1: My goodness. Well, thank you so much for your time

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Speaker 1: today and all of your words of wisdom. I'm really

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Speaker 1: taking the all to heart and giving it a little

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Speaker 1: bit more airtime in my mind, as I really do

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Speaker 1: think it deserves, and that's because of you and your book.

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Speaker 1: So thank you, Jenny.

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Speaker 2: It's been so lovely and you had so many really

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Speaker 2: insightful comments and questions. I feel so excited that you're

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Speaker 2: behind it, and I hope your listeners will will enjoy

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Speaker 2: it and read it. And I truly often people read

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Speaker 2: it and then they say, I think there's a whole

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Speaker 2: other level. So I think this is very much part

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Speaker 2: of I Choose Me. When I read about you and

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Speaker 2: this podcast, I was like, oh my god, this is

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Speaker 2: what I want women like you know, So I'm really excited.

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Speaker 2: I hope I hope you'll continue with I Choose Me.

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Speaker 2: It's so important.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you, doctor Maria. These are

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Speaker 1: such important and new conversations that we should all be

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Speaker 1: having and for sure passing on to our kids today.

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Speaker 1: So they're not hearing about all of this for the

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Speaker 1: first time as they go through it. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: for your time and for your work. Your fantastic book,

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Speaker 1: The Bedroom Gap is available now wherever books are sold.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Doctor Maria. Be well,

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Speaker 1: bye bye