1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye. 2 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you 3 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. My writer Die and I 4 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: here have off off. Mike agreed. There is only there's 5 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: one and only one way to introduce today's episode, and 6 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: that's this Shakespeare Riots ryant. That's as far as we 7 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: got with the song. Right brow chair up on the stage, 8 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: the Shakespeare Riot Riot. This is not I don't know, 9 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: I got nothing, what is it? Well, so this is 10 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: let's see, um, it's over the bard. We wage no 11 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: nothing not good, not good. Well, we'll look at the 12 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: we'll look at the lyrics and spend some time or 13 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: maybe you can help us out with this. We're looking 14 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: for zoot Suit Riot written as Shakespeare Riot, and we'd 15 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: love to hear your take on the lyrics, uh anywhere 16 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: on the internet, Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook page Ridiculous Historians. 17 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: Maybe we can come up with some of our own 18 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: off air. How will I write this parody song? You 19 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: may be asking yourself, Well, it's very simple. You'll learn 20 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: all you need in today's episode. Well, and the good 21 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: news is I've already set the bar remarkably low. With 22 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: my ham fisted attempt at this, but you know I 23 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: was really it was just right off the cuff. I 24 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: didn't even think about this bend you threw that. You 25 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: surprised me with this cherry pop and Daddy's ref So please, 26 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, do us a solid and make us proud 27 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: right right, this song and needs to exist. Weird Al 28 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: hasn't done it. Who else is going to? I don't 29 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: know if it could be you, but it's true. Today 30 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about no joke riot, like you know, practically 31 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: burning things to the ground. I think there is an 32 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: attempt at arson at some point in this story, and 33 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: it's all around. It's like in that time of New 34 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: York City history, kind of like Gangs of New York era, 35 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken with like the Bowery Boys and 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: all of that stuff. Actually that might be later. Forget 37 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: I said anything about Gangs of New York. But it 38 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: is sort of still that frontier kind of like you know, 39 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: mentality of like, you know, there's the very high salutin 40 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: old money types, which were pretty much British transplants who 41 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: still are quite rich, and then there's like the new 42 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: middle class, and then there's like the lower class and 43 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff. Those crowds come together in entertainment. 44 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: That's where the haves and the have nots kind of 45 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: meat Taylor as old as time, we see it throughout 46 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: history and America was it so much no own as 47 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: being like like a theater place. It was very much 48 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: a British thing. And obviously Shakespeare is the most famous 49 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: British you know, arguably now I think pretty much unquestionably 50 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,119 Speaker 1: there was famous British playwright of all time. And this 51 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: was now starting to you know, show up in the States. 52 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: But there still wasn't like a famous British equivalent to 53 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: like the the great British actors, you know, And this 54 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: story is kind of about that American equivalent and the uh, 55 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: the the hufflepuff that's not the right word, the hubble 56 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: brew ha ha. That those uh that those clashing factions 57 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: uh created when you know, people were feeling like maybe 58 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: this uh, this gentleman was too low brow to tread 59 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: the boards right right, and this is uh, this is 60 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: where of course we point out, uh, the notable absence 61 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: of our super producer Casey Pegram, who is still so 62 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: upset by the historical event that he uh, he wasn't 63 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: able to make it to the recording. Today, we're with you, Casey, uh, 64 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: and you'll be you're joining us in spirit. But we 65 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: understand how how you're still still a little sore about 66 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: about the issue his very sensibilities of all that is good. 67 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: We're so shaken that he had to take a take 68 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: a sick day today. Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket, 69 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: that's the theater ticket. You're you're right, Noel, and I 70 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: love the way that you have set out the stage 71 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: for our story today. You see, one of the biggest 72 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: incidents of public outrage and pandemonium in the entire history 73 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: of the Big Apple was really a fight about theater. Uh. 74 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: And we're going to learn how a tremendously difficult feud 75 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: between two actors lead to widespread chaos. So let's introduce 76 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: were two principal actors for this story who are also 77 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: actors themselves. There's England's William McCready and from the US 78 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: there's Edwin Forrest. Now, both of these guys were already 79 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: big deals. They were professional actors. They were in their 80 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: glory days. They had each toward the other's country in 81 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: various productions, and they were known on both sides of 82 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: the pond. But McCready sort of represented that old school 83 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: idea of Shakespearean or British actors. Forrest was a young 84 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,679 Speaker 1: gun in every sense of the word. He was thirteen 85 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: years younger than William and he also represented this sort 86 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: of this sort of new school of actors who came 87 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: from an American background. Yeah, that's right. It's like you 88 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 1: think of, oh, what's that Saturday Night Live sketch? Whereas 89 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: is it Mike Myers who does the whole acting that 90 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: that thing John John Lovett's acting. That's right, And yeah, 91 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: it's it's definitely like that that tradition, a very large 92 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: kind of you know, almost scenery chewing kind of attitude 93 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: of that kind of Shakespearean acting where it's all about 94 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: big performances because as we know, you know, stage acting 95 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: requires big performances. Otherwise, those uh, gestures and glances and 96 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: looks and and nuances that might be easier to to 97 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: see on a screen with zoomed in camera, you can't 98 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: do that on on on a on a stage when 99 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: you're maybe you know, hundred feet away and the chief 100 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: seats or or more even um so you really got 101 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: to kind of like sell it um. And that is 102 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: what McCready represented. The traditional style of Great Britain and 103 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: classical British theater. Forest, who was much younger, Um was. 104 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: He brought a different kind of bravado to the stage. 105 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: It's possible that I'm overstating the bigness of British acting 106 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: because it was possibly of to the more nuanced Um, 107 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: but it had a little bit more of an effect 108 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: quality to it, a little bit more of a daintiness 109 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: and delicate nature. And this Forest guy was all, you know, 110 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: piss and vinegar and bigness and machismo. And American audiences 111 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: flipped for this guy, first of all because he was 112 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: one of their own, you know, given those British conquerors 113 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: what for uh you know, in in in the theater, 114 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: theatrical sense um. But he had really started to develop 115 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: kind of a distinct cultural identity for American theater that 116 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: was different from that British school. And I would argue, 117 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: first off, I have rarely been a professional actor in 118 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: my life. I mainly did uh sketch comedy and a 119 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: couple of few serious pieces. But I would argue that 120 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: this difference exists in a form today very quickly. For instance, 121 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: imagine some of the most famous American actors, people like 122 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: al Pacino. That's always going to be seen as al 123 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: Pacino on camera, right, and it's less chameleon like. There's 124 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: something to be said, uh and and I'm not sure 125 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: how to freeze it. There's something to be said to 126 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: the idea that European actors are often lauded for their 127 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: ability to become subsumed in a role, while many US 128 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: actors are lauded for their ability to kind of always 129 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: be themselves. Hey, it's me Robert de Niro, Bobby de Niro. 130 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: I'm playing a French duke in this movie. But this 131 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: is still how I do you know? Or Keanu reeves 132 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: uh may science and the God's bless him. He seems 133 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: like such a great guy. But man, if you rewatch 134 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula, which I thoroughly enjoy. Uh that accent, 135 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: that accent is tough. I know what, the Boston sleeps exactly. Yeah. 136 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: But you know what, you never got cast in a 137 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: role like that ever again. And I would argue that 138 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: Kanu reeves as a secret weapon, a magic bullet when 139 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: used properly. And I think I saw an article not 140 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: to get too off topic, about how he is sort 141 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: of one of the most underappreciated actors in American cinema, 142 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: and that's largely because people just think he's a dummy 143 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: and he doesn't really know what he's doing. But yet, 144 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: why why is he so beloved? It's not just coincidence, 145 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: It's not just because he's cute. There's something to Kiana Reeves. 146 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: He brings a kindness and that sort of empathy to 147 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: his roles. Uh, And I think that really translates, and 148 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: that's why he's such a big deal. And I think 149 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: that all all of the actors we have mentioned thus far, 150 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: and many that we haven't mentioned thus far, are in 151 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: their own way, profoundly talented, you know. I I think 152 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: it's I think it's kind of lazy for people to 153 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: just keep opprobrium on an actor. There's there's usually going 154 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: to be a reason that they're in so many films, right, 155 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: professionals assessed their abilities and found them more than adequate, 156 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: So kudos to wall. It is tremendously difficult work to 157 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: be a working actor, and you live and die by 158 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: the fans, right, That's true for any entertainment. That's true 159 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: for uh K pop and groups like BTS, that's true 160 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: for sports teams and more. These actors each had their 161 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: own fan clubs, and they were like soccer hool again 162 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: level or football hool again level, opposed to each other. 163 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: The wealthy upper class anglophiles in England and in the US, 164 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: they were McCready people, the the uh the working class, 165 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: the folks who were like, yeah, I like theater. What 166 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: does that surprise you? Okay, like theater, I worked, you 167 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: know what? The ducks and I go see Macbeth. What's 168 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 1: wrong with that? This is America, baby, Those folks like Forest. Well, 169 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, then I mean this is also 170 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: pre what we might consider some of the more base, 171 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 1: lowbrow types forms of entertainment in the States, things like 172 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: cabaret or things like vaudeville, you know. Like so at 173 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: the time, the reason there was such a clash between 174 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: these two classes was because this was really the only 175 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: game in town. Was this kind of classical theater, you know, Like, 176 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, I'm sure there were some 177 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: other things that were approaching what I'm talking about, but 178 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 1: it certainly wasn't that golden era, yet where there were 179 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: like a much more of a body type of crowd 180 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: that maybe the highbrows wouldn't go to. They were occupying 181 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: the same theaters, checking out the same uh, performances that 182 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: were largely classical works. Not classical all the time, but 183 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: things by Shakespeare, maybe even Greek theater or Rome, what 184 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: have you. So there was definitely this interesting opportunity for 185 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: culture clash to take place, and boy do we have 186 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: a good one coming. But real quick, let's just a 187 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: little further some up kind of they's individual actress style. 188 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: William Charles McCready was known for that kind of more 189 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: Faye effect kind of handkerchief wavings is how Smithsonian Magazine 190 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: refers to it um in his port trail of Hamlet, 191 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: and he was a beloved portrayer of Hamlet. That was 192 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: one of his most famous roles. Uh. Forest, on the 193 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: other hand, like we said, took it a little bit 194 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: more of a blunt instrument approach. Yeah, And Forrest was 195 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: more of the Shakespearean protagonist as action hero, you know 196 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: what I mean. This guy was here to kick ass 197 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: and spit quatrains. And I have no idea if that's correct. 198 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: But here's here's the thing. They also became symbols as 199 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: we've sort of been foreshadowing of anti English and pro 200 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: English sentiment. We have to remember this was like just 201 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: maybe two generations after the Revolutionary War. That means it 202 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: was still a hot topic. So even the word English 203 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: was considered to kind of a sideways dig against the 204 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: wealthy in the US and what we're seeing as their 205 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: British sympathies. Shakespeare, oddly enough escaped this anti English sentiment. 206 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: Americans loved Shakespeare, they loved the stories, they love the writing. 207 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: They just wanted no part of what they saw as 208 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: the foreign stage direction. They were like, yeah, forrest this guy, 209 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: this bust heads and take names approach to British protagonists, 210 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: and that's what we need, not this uptype formality. And 211 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: while that might seem weird, we have to remember this 212 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: was pre internet, this was pre telephone, pre television, so 213 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: traveling performers were often seen as representatives of their own countries, 214 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: whether they liked it or not. So when a lot 215 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: of people would see McReady, they would think, Okay, this 216 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: is what every single British person. It's like, how interesting 217 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: is that? Ben sort of goes to what I was 218 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: talking about earlier, that maybe it had to do it 219 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: just a lack of options. But you know, now we 220 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: think of Shakespeare is something that you learn in college, 221 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: and you know, we might occasionally get like a bas 222 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: learnman adaptation of one that's got like boobs and you know, 223 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: violence and and and chopping heads and things like that. 224 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: So there's definitely still a little bit of that populace 225 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: sentiment around Shakespeare, but much less so. There's an article 226 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: on the Santa Fe, New Mexicans website that kind of 227 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: tells the story of this rivalry that categorizes it like this. 228 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: Prospectors and trappers recited Shakespeare around campfires, reading from battered 229 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: volumes carried in their packs or cobbling together heartfelt pastichious 230 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: from memory. Um, really fascinating. This really was kind of 231 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: the people's He was the people's bard, you know, right, yeah, 232 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: voice of the people. And so let's let's dive into 233 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: how McReady and Forest became such uh, such bitter pills 234 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: toward one another. It all started years back. McReady had 235 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: toward the United States, and Forest more or less emulated him. 236 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: He performed the same roles that McReady was known for 237 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: at different theaters across the country, and the public love 238 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: this idea of dueling actors. There's almost like a w 239 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: W E vibe here because there was this transatlantic rivalry. 240 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: Supporting that one actor or another in a role became 241 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: kind of a statement of one's sentiments regarding the transatlantic 242 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: rivalry at large. And so when Forrest went to England, 243 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: the crowds came out, there were butts in the seats, 244 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: there were ground lanes in the ground lean area. And 245 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: when he came back to England later in the mid 246 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: eighteen forties for a second tour, you can read a 247 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: great article about this on thought Co, the crowds were sparse. 248 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: Did Forest blame his performance? Did he blame the source 249 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: material or did he blame the production team? No, he 250 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: blamed McReady. That's son of a fish. He said. I 251 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: was sabotaged. Yeah I was. I was sabotaged. And so 252 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: we physically showed up in a performance that McReady was 253 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: involved in and started heckling him from the audience like 254 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: this boom. You know it's funny. I read another article 255 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: about this, or I think I watched and I know 256 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: what it was. There's this guy I've been really enjoying 257 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: on on YouTube. Goes by the history Guy and he 258 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: does these kind of short little uh, you know, quick 259 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: blasts through like interesting little history stories. And we've we 260 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: referenced him a few times on the show. But he 261 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: talks about how these guys kind of knew each other, 262 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: they had at least crossed paths, and they were friendly 263 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: to a point. Uh. And the first thing, yeah, and 264 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: then things got nasty. But you gotta wonder, you know, 265 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: it's like these hip hop beefs we see today, you 266 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: gotta wonder if there's calculation behind them sometimes where it's 267 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: sort of like, hey, no, no press is bad press. 268 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: Maybe if we drum up some kind of leg rivalry, 269 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: it'll it'll, you know, it'll up our returns on both ends. 270 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: UM doesn't seem like that was the case here because 271 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: there was actual loss of money happening, because it was like, Okay, 272 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna cause me to not have as 273 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: many people come to the show. I'm gonna show up 274 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: and hiss from from the box seats. Uh, And that 275 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: really UM set things on a collision course for disaster. 276 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: And we know this is the case, uh, because Okay, 277 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: so the this is when the rivalry begins. So Forest 278 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: shows up in Edinburgh when mc ready is performing Hamlet, 279 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: as you guessed it Hamlet, and oddly enough, theater was 280 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: much more interactive at this level there is maybe considered 281 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: to be today because it wasn't uncommon for a spectator 282 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: to heckle, and mc ready may have gone on and 283 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: just take that and stride his bruised ego aside, but 284 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: he recognized that it was Forest. And then Forrest went 285 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: in and wrote a letter to the London Times where 286 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: he defended his behavior. He said it was quote is 287 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: salutary and wholesome corrective to the abuses of the stage. 288 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: The truth is Mr McGready thought fit to introduce a 289 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: fancy dance into his performance of Hamlet, which I thought, 290 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: and still think a desecration of the scene, and at 291 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: which I evinced that disapprobation. What is it? A fancy 292 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: dance like a little uh, like a little jig like 293 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: I got it? Who knows that that would be a first? 294 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: And then McCready, uh, you know, in in in, in 295 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: true dandy British fashion, made a very snippy entry in 296 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: his diary where he commented on the affairs such. I 297 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: do not think that's such an action as a parallel 298 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: in all theatrical history, the low minded ruffian perfect. I 299 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: think he's referring, he's referring to Forest. There is a 300 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: low that is them's fighting words. Low minded Ruffian in 301 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: those days might as well be you know, a serious 302 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: Ethan and Jeff and kind of slur. And notice how 303 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: that that plays into the British stereotypes of knuckle headed 304 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: residents of the US. And it's weird because in Europe 305 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: McReady is very well established. He has the infrastructure, he 306 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: has the pr they're on his side, and his supporters 307 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: worked assiduously to ensure that Forest is performances didn't get 308 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: a lot of coverage in the press, so he wasn't 309 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: getting the headlines and the ink that he wanted, and 310 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: this sabotaged his uh, his obsession one that should be 311 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: familiar to many actors in the audience today. Global fame 312 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: and then Forest in return made it difficult for Ready 313 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: to play in the States. There was a performance McReady 314 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: had in Cincinnati, and the patrons, the audience members, the 315 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: secret Forest fans intentionally went there to try and sabotage 316 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: the production. They threw half a dead sheep onto the stage, 317 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: and these guys kept like snipping each other back and 318 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: forth in the press. So to your point, Noll, I 319 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: don't know how sincere they. I think the two actors 320 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,959 Speaker 1: were sincere. But I am sure there were promoters and 321 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: so on who were fanning the flames because they realized 322 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: it was good publicity and it's back and forth in 323 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: the press. These kind of little digs, uh, just went 324 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: on and on and on and really began to just 325 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: kind of deepen those resentments on both sides of the divide. 326 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: Like we said, the anglophile has you know, in the 327 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: MacCready camp and the more working class you know, um 328 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: football hooligan types, not to oversimplify um and the forester camp. 329 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: And it all was heading to a battleground situation, um 330 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: where things would ultimately kind of boil over in a 331 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: pretty remarkable fashion. We have our characters, we have our context. 332 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: Now let's look at our figurative and literal stage. The 333 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: theater at astor place is in a wealthy neighborhood Broadway 334 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: should be familiar to everybody else. It is within shouting 335 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: distance of the Bowery, which is working class. The Bowery 336 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: Theaters where Forrest made his stage debut, and it's where 337 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: neighborhood street gangs known as bhoys be Apostrophe h o 338 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: y s went to while out they would throw peanuts, 339 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: they would they would holler along with the works of Shakespeare, 340 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: or they would climb on stage and try to mess 341 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: with the actors. The Astor Place Theater was the polar 342 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: opposite velvet seats. You gotta show up with white gloves, 343 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: monocles not required, but encouraged totally. And uh, basically it 344 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: was considered scandalous if someone showed up to the Astor 345 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: Place Theater not in an expensive carriage. So of course 346 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: that's where McReady goes. That's right. And you know I 347 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: mentioned at the top of the show the idea of 348 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: kind of that that new Ish working class um, the 349 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: Bowery Boys and things like that. They were they were 350 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: there was a gang, but they also were just kind 351 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: of a group of you know, street tufts that kind 352 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: of hung around the Bowery neighborhood. So you definitely had 353 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: it wasn't very far from where the Astor Theater was, 354 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: so there was you know, it was easy for them 355 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: to kind of like get when that there that there 356 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: was going to be this event and decide they were 357 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: going to uh you know, not co opted exactly, but 358 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: a bit of a party crashing situation. So, um, when 359 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: McCready gets this kind of engagement at the Aster Place 360 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: Theater in eighteen forty nine and the Springs will be 361 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: his third tour of the United States, uh, it was 362 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: essentially fighting words, um, you know, as far as the 363 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: Bowery Boys and that kind of Echelona society were concerned. 364 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: So on May seventh, eighteen forty nine, McCready was about 365 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: to hit the stage as Macbeth in the in the 366 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: Scottish play, that's what they call it. And uh, this 367 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: that's when these working class New York folks who had 368 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: bought tickets started filing into the Astor Opera House, which 369 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: is which is the official name of the place. And 370 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: it was actually, if I'm not mistaken, they had previously 371 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: only done opera and then they started to kind of 372 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: diversify a little bit because I think they wanted to 373 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: I don't know, like broaden the reach, I guess, and 374 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: and make more money. Um that's just the way it looks, 375 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: um from my perspective. So it started to get a 376 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: little rough feeling, and you started to see, you know, 377 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: a lot of these uh folks that were more used 378 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,479 Speaker 1: to the white glove and monocle uh situation. We started 379 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: to see this other contingent kind of filing in and 380 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: it sort of gave them a little bit of pause. 381 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: Uh McCready went on stage. I started to deliver the 382 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: first of his lines and was immediately cheered boot pissed 383 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: at uh. And there were things like three grounds for 384 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: the English bull dog, let's all for native talent. They 385 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't have said it in an English accent. They were 386 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: in English at all. I don't know why I said that. 387 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: It was funny they could there. You go, let's assume 388 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: that's the case. Huzzah for the native talent exactly. I 389 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: love hazzah. Huzzah is universal. You don't have to be 390 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: British or American to use his uh um. And things 391 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: just got worse from their apparent only it got so 392 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: noisy that the performers had to kind of continue the 393 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: performance in pantomime because he couldn't even hear the dialogue. 394 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: And then things escalated from there in terms of like 395 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: things getting chucked on stage, right, Yeah, Yeah, I'm I'm 396 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: most My favorite part of this story is the same 397 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: crowd cheered when mc duff first enters the story. She's 398 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: as as you recall Shakespeare fans, he's the character who 399 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: goes on to kill Macbeth spoilers. So that's how profoundly 400 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: they hated McReady. And the stage wasn't just pelted with 401 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: uh playbills or peanuts. People had brought things to throw 402 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: at him, eggs, bottles, pennies, rotten fruit. Yes, that really 403 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: used to happen. People would throw rotten fruit at actors, 404 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: and eventually they had to end the performance before the 405 00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: play itself was done. At the same time, across town, Forest, 406 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: by the way, is doing his own performance of Macbeth 407 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: to a packed house of his own supporters, and this 408 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: made mcgreedy livid in a very you know, buttoned up 409 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: British way. He said, I'm going to cancel my tour. 410 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: I'm leaving this golf of saking country full good. And 411 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: it took some of New York's most highly regarded elites 412 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: begging him for him to you know, reluctantly change his mind. 413 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: Uh the other word, like the society folks, the literary giants, 414 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: and so they said, Okay, we're gonna do another performance. 415 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: We're going to call it a premier. We're gonna do 416 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: it three days later. And that's where they messed up 417 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: because this, fellow ridiculous historians, gave the authorities time to prepare, 418 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: but it also gave the It also gave those mutual 419 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: fan clubs time to prepare. Unless we need to really 420 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: not uh bury the lead here. This was more than 421 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: just like drunken heckling. This, like we said, this represented 422 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: serious tensions between the upper and lower and middle classes. 423 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: Uh and also the pro British versus staunchly anti anything 424 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: foreign sentiments. So I mean, this was serious business. This 425 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 1: represented something very real, even if it was just kind 426 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: of like, you know, it seems a little frivolous talking 427 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: about it now, I was like, wow, it was just 428 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: like a freaking play. It's basically just like getting bad 429 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: of shape about like you know, a movie or something, 430 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: which not to say people don't do that that that, 431 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: but certainly not to this degree. Um. There was a 432 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: militia assembled, A three fifty person militia was assembled, and 433 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: it was stationed at Washington Square Park on the ready 434 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: right then, um, and they were kind of expecting that 435 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: there was going to be some trouble, and that was 436 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: assembled by the city's mayor, who was a Wig. That's 437 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: a holdover from British governing. Yeah. The Whig Party, which 438 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,719 Speaker 1: is no longer active now, was pretty active in the 439 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. They were an oppositional party. They rose to 440 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: oppose President Andrew Jackson. So they their main constituents, or 441 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: their their main components were former members of the Democratic Party, 442 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: the Anti Masonic Party, which is a good thing for 443 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 1: an episode later, and the National Republican Party got it. 444 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: So would they have been more pro British or more 445 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: pro you know, British sentiment or is this not even 446 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: something that is worth considering in this situation. They you know, 447 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: it's it's almost an episode of its own. They ultimately 448 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: self destructed over the question of whether or not slavery 449 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: should be expanded to the territories in the country at 450 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: the time. So there were a lot of what we 451 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: would call haves in the Whig Party. Okay, so this 452 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: would have largely this three fifty man militia. We could 453 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: probably consider them kind of in the MacCready camp. Oh yeah, oh, 454 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: they're there to there to oppose the unwashed masses and 455 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,719 Speaker 1: their hooligan ring. Yeah. Oh, also, uh, Abraham Lincoln was 456 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: leader of the Whig Party in Illinois once upon a time, 457 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: So you know, I I don't want to paint with 458 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: two broad a brush there, but yes, the three man 459 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: strong militia was organized to stop any potential shenanigans on 460 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: the part of forest supporters. So we fast forward tine 461 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: the second performance still called a premier for marketing purposes. 462 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. And let's also point out we 463 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: may have glossed over this. This was essentially the rich 464 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: contingent saying, how da are you treat our beloved MacCready 465 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: in this way? You absolute trash human beings. We are 466 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: going to be completely tone deaf about what this few represents, 467 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: and we just think he deserves them all again because 468 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: you were so you know, uh, dastardly to him with 469 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: your rudeness and your pelting of eggs and all of that. 470 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: They probably should have left well enough alone, Ben, not 471 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: realizing that this was actually the match that could ignite 472 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: an actual powder k. I'm not an actual literal powder 473 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: keg a figurative powder k or an actual riot or 474 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: conflict in the streets. But they were more concerned about 475 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: coming off as as uh refined to this this gentleman 476 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: and making sure that he would return to regale them 477 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: with with with his uh you know, handkerchief waving performances 478 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: in future engagements. Yeah, that's the thing they were. There 479 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: was a lot of let us subjugate the lower class, 480 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: teach them a lesson kind of reasoning behind their activities. 481 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: I could just see, you know, I can see the 482 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: members of high society shaking their hands in the ceiling 483 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: of their chandelier and going the uncoutherie of it all 484 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: the year, uncouthie. Uh so, yeah, you're you're absolutely right. 485 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: Things got shady so quickly. Two officers from the police 486 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: force were inside the theater, seventy five more were outside, 487 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: but the crowd easily outnumbered them. We're talking about more 488 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: than ten thousand people, and people in the crowd learned 489 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: of an unethical trick. The McReady contingent had pulled an 490 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: advance of the play. You see, they intentionally oversold the 491 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: tickets for the show, and this gave the ushers the 492 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: opportunity to uh, as the Smithsonian Mental Flaws phrase it, 493 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: weed out the riff raff and still have a sold 494 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: out premier. So they did this, by the way, because 495 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: McReady's agents sold tickets that had a special identifying mark 496 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: that said to the ushers, these are the people we 497 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: actually want in the theater. So the four supporters who 498 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: managed to get in in the first place found themselves 499 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: cherry picked and arrested during the first act of the play, 500 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: and the crowd of McGready fans were loudly cheering as 501 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,479 Speaker 1: they saw these people get dragged off, And then that's 502 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: when eventually the prisoners set their holding cell on fire. 503 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: One man yelling, I paid for ticket and they wouldn't 504 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: let me in because I hadn't kid gloves in a 505 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: white vest. Damn them. Kid gloves. Is that where that 506 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: expression comes round? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, go goat skin. Yeah, 507 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: I got it, kid. I always as soon handling things 508 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: with kid gloves meant like, like, you know, having to 509 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: deal with a small child. I was always give the 510 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: other one these gloves for children, Like I confused. That 511 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. Kid gloves, Marzi oats and dozy dots 512 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: and all that stuff. Kids isn't even in that rhyme. 513 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: What am I talking about? I just google it. It's 514 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: it's a it's a funny rhyme about types of goats 515 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: or something. Um. But yeah, it's true. People started throwing 516 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: bricks or as they referred to them in those days, 517 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: paving stones, um. And it was you know absolute bedlum. 518 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: Windows were being broken. Uh. The opera house really started 519 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: to look like that scene and lay miss, you know, 520 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: with a barricade in the middle of the street and 521 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: like you know, burning refuse piled up in and like 522 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: a weird pyramid and uh yeah, I mean it's absolutely 523 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: a scene, you know, like something out of out of 524 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: a war movie inside an opera house. So now the 525 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: opera house is starting to look like it is under siege, 526 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,479 Speaker 1: like there's some sort of army invading. Police and the 527 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: state militia try to keep the crowds away from the theater. 528 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: One General William Hall told the mayor straight up, look, 529 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: it's time to open fire on these people, or it's 530 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: time to pull back, because I am not gonna let 531 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: my guys get stoned to death while they're carrying guns. 532 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: So just give us the order, Mayor. It's time to 533 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: ship or get off the pot. So this is where 534 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: a man in the crowd shouts, fire it burn that 535 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: damned dead of the aristocracy. Oh, and then the continuation 536 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: of this quote is priceless. You danced, fire you sons 537 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: of Do you dance? What does that mean? And that's 538 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: that's the anonymous voice that rose above the crowd. Oh, 539 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 1: working man, shall Americans or English rule? Uh? And then yeah, 540 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: so the soldiers apparently did dance, and they and they 541 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: and they fired. Yeah. I was interested in this because 542 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 1: in the Stephen King novel The Shining Without Spoiling It, 543 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,479 Speaker 1: there is a scene where one character, in an exasperated tone, 544 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: is yelling out, you dasn't you dasn't like? You dare not? 545 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 1: I know that one. So it's it's a it's an 546 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: outdated kind of archaic expression. Now, but I was looking 547 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: into you darsn't. Does that mean you dare not? Fire? Like? 548 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: Were they daring the soldiers to fire? Dare you dare not? Fire? 549 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: You dare not? I think maybe dars and does dare not? Perhaps? 550 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's it's hard to say. We 551 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: can only we can only make our best guests. But again, 552 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,359 Speaker 1: they did open fire. The soldiers volleyed some shots over 553 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: the crowd's heads. They were meant more to be warning shots, uh, 554 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: to kind of get them to simmer down a little bit, 555 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: but it didn't really have the desired effect. Um and 556 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: book kept, you know, hurling these paving stones and all 557 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: of that. And that's when the soldiers decided to take 558 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 1: it to the next level, and they set their sights 559 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: and they actually fired into the crowd yep and the 560 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 1: crowd continued surging forward. It was only until this militia 561 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: threatened to use cannon fire that the crowds dispersed. And 562 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: once everything had settled relatively speaking, there were eighteen people 563 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: dead on the street, murdered by this militia, and there 564 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: were dozens more people who were injured, not all of 565 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: them involved in the riots, some people probably just like 566 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: walking to the deli and getting caught up in this cacophony, 567 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:52,720 Speaker 1: this cavalcade of chaos. More than a hundred riders were arrested. 568 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: And we have an account we found, uh reprinted in 569 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: the Washington Post from eighteen forty nine that says this, 570 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: which followed Beggar's old description. The wounded, the dying, and 571 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: the dead was scattered in every direction. There were groans 572 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: of agony, cries for help and oaths of vengeance. Some 573 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: of the dead and wounded were laid out upon the 574 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,280 Speaker 1: billiards table of Vauxhall Saloon. A large crowd gathered around 575 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: and speeches were made by excited orators. And it goes 576 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: on to list the number of people killed, injured, and arrested. 577 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: But it also, and this is interesting, it prints their 578 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: occupations and background information about them. They're people like people 579 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: work at grocery stores, carpenters, waiters, stuff like that. Not 580 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: to take it into contemporary political direction, but as we know, 581 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: the problem with riots and and looting and all of 582 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: that is people do get caught in the crossfire, and 583 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: oftentimes people that are there with the best of intentions, 584 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: that are playing by the rules get lumped in with 585 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: the quote unquote bad actors. Right, and then uh and 586 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: if if, if lethal forces involved, that's a whole another 587 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: ball game, because then everyone kind of gets swept up 588 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: into the melee and it's it's a nasty scene. Um. 589 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: There was a bystander by the name of Bridget Fagan 590 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: who was thirty years old, shot in the leg while 591 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: walking with her husband just along the bowery. Or a 592 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,240 Speaker 1: gentleman named George Gedney thirty four, who was a Wall 593 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: Street stockbroker who was shot right through the head while 594 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: watching all of this stuff unfold from in front of 595 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: one of the very posh mansions, and that in that 596 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: part of the city. Um So even people that weren't 597 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: even there, like you said, had nothing to do with 598 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,760 Speaker 1: the got caught up in in all of this violence. 599 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: And then you have to The thing about riots too, 600 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: is is that there's got to be a narrative and 601 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: there's always this kind of rush to blame somebody or 602 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: figure out, you know who, who the one person or 603 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,879 Speaker 1: contingent that you know actually was the cause of said 604 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:55,280 Speaker 1: violence was, when usually it's a combination of of multiple parties. 605 00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: Not to mention the massive over correction by the cities, 606 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: um I would say, not technically legal police supplements, you know, 607 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: with these militia people who are gonna be much more 608 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: tugger happy than maybe trained officers. I don't know, I 609 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: don't even know if that's true or not, but it 610 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: certainly feels like it was quite an overreaction and it 611 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: was Irish immigrants that were blamed. Uh, the Irish always 612 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: get blamed. It seems like in a lot of these situations, 613 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: but the true evidence pointed to anti immigrant forces, um 614 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: much more than actual you know, immigrants themselves. Yeah, so 615 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,479 Speaker 1: very much in line with that Gangs of New York 616 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: kind of echotomy that you mentioned at the top there. Noluh. 617 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 1: But what about the most controversial British actor in New 618 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: York City? Mc ready high tailed it out first through 619 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: a back exit of the theater, and then he high 620 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 1: tailed it to his posh hotel, and then because he 621 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: was worried that the mob would lay siege to his 622 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: hotel and then kill him, he high tailed it from 623 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: New York entirely in a few days. He was in Boston. 624 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: But what about the aftermath here? Oh? What about it? Indeed, 625 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: and real quickly, just to back check, I made a 626 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: it was kind of just an off the cuff assertion 627 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,280 Speaker 1: in the top that this was during the time period 628 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: of the Gangs of New York. And then I realized 629 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: I hadn't confirmed that, so I sort of walked that back. 630 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: But now, the Gangs of New York period, with all 631 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 1: of those huge gang wars, was only a very brief period, 632 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: and it was from eighteen thirty four to eighteen forty four, 633 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: and this is an eighteen forty nine, so this really 634 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: is like right part and parcel with that whole vibe 635 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 1: in the city. Right. But that's why I said that, 636 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: I thought you were comparison was spot on because we 637 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: still see the antonomous Irish uh sentis and absolutely, for 638 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: some reason I just thought maybe it would have been 639 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: further removed, but it really was like right on the 640 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,800 Speaker 1: heels of that, so that stuff would have just absolutely 641 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,919 Speaker 1: still been in the air. So your to your point, 642 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: that's absolutely right. The news of the day was, you know, 643 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: was very consciously oriented toward keeping opprobrium upon that Irish 644 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: American population. We're not in any way diminished that, but 645 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: they were opportunists for sure, the media, I mean, not 646 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: not the Irish population, new question about it. They absolutely 647 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: had their own agendas and access to grind. And we 648 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,240 Speaker 1: actually have a kind of a recollection from Major General 649 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: Charles Stanford, who led that New York militia, of of 650 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: the events that took place, and this is what he said, 651 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: I have never seen a mob so violent as the 652 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: one on that evening. I never before had occasion to 653 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: give the order to fire. And then you know, after 654 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: the riot, there were bodies thrown in the streets. I mean, 655 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,919 Speaker 1: it really was like something out of a war movie, um, 656 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: only it was much more of like a civil war 657 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: kind of situation. It really, truly was a mini civil 658 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: war between the haves and the have nots, all over 659 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 1: which version of Macbeth they liked the best, but representing 660 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: something much larger. Yeah, that's how it started. One thing 661 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 1: that people don't often talk about when they talk about 662 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,399 Speaker 1: the story is the second riot that almost occurred with 663 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 1: people marching like an army in Lower Manhattan. That riot 664 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: was quelled, uh and a few days after the first riot, 665 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 1: a jury relieved the police and militia of any and 666 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: all responsibility for the shootings, saying that they were justified. 667 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: Five more people died of their wounds in the days after, 668 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 1: so the total the total fatalities of this riot were 669 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: twenty three people dead, but maybe as many as thirty one, 670 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: and people who were seeing as instigators of the riots 671 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: were up for trial as well. Many were convicted find 672 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: and jailed, including that author Ned Buntline, who was one 673 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,800 Speaker 1: of the people shouting in the crowd. He wasn't the 674 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 1: guy was like you darsn't, but he was. He was 675 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 1: hanging out with those folks. Forest continued, uh continued performing 676 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: after this. They both continued performing after this, And this 677 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,839 Speaker 1: is I don't know what to think about this win Nol. 678 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:28,040 Speaker 1: But he eventually had this dramatic falling out and divorce 679 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:33,359 Speaker 1: from his English wife and went on to perform regularly 680 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 1: until he passed away suddenly in eighteen seventy two at 681 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: the age of sixty six. And you know astor place, 682 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: this area and and and the theater that that you know, 683 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: it was centered around. Um already had a reputation as 684 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,400 Speaker 1: being kind of a hot spot for the wealthy and 685 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:58,840 Speaker 1: powerful and the kind of like shining uh tower on 686 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: the hill, you know, where the the the elite were 687 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,879 Speaker 1: able to live and work and play. And it just 688 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: kind of continued to deepen those resentments, right especially after 689 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 1: you know, loss of life that resulted. It was about 690 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 1: more than just Shakespeare and which which acted you like 691 00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 1: the best. It really was kind of a almost like 692 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 1: a French Revolution type experience, like almost like a mini 693 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 1: revolution Um and it was. It did go down in 694 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 1: history as one of the most uh violent riots in 695 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: the city's history until the eighteen sixty three draft riots 696 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: Um that took place during the Civil War. So it's 697 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 1: you know, interchangeably referred to as the Shakespeare Riot or 698 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,719 Speaker 1: the astor Place riot. And this had immediate impacts that 699 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: resonated not just in New York City but around the country. Um. Uh. 700 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,839 Speaker 1: New York City police were armed at this point, where 701 00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,720 Speaker 1: I guess they hadn't been, and then municipal constables around 702 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,400 Speaker 1: the country were also armed. Um. And the words spread 703 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,800 Speaker 1: through the relatively new invention that was the telegraph. And 704 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,839 Speaker 1: this is when you start to see a little bit 705 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,919 Speaker 1: more of almost the earliest days of the militarization of 706 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,799 Speaker 1: the police. Um. And you know, the idea of like 707 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,080 Speaker 1: a police state or something. It's pretty fascinating. Uh. You know, 708 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 1: up until that point, a lot of the beat cops 709 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 1: would just be walking around with like nightsticks, for example. 710 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 1: And now they were carrying heavy firepower, and there was 711 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: more heavy weaponry um given to police departments and things 712 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,359 Speaker 1: like armored vehicles and stuff and such. Yeah, that's why 713 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: you will see authors such as Jonathan Richards writing for 714 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,360 Speaker 1: Santa Fe, New Mexican saying that this sets a precedent 715 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: for the path of increased militarization and uh. And in 716 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: arguing that you can trace it back there. I don't 717 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 1: think the answers as clear cut, but there's definitely something 718 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: to the argument. This also marked the what people call 719 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:11,440 Speaker 1: the beginning of the end for Shakespeare as popular entertainment 720 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: in the US, because now the secret that everybody knew 721 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,319 Speaker 1: but no one really talked about of alienation between the 722 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: various American classes was front and center. Like someone doing 723 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 1: a monologue. In Shakespeare, it was it was right there 724 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: for all to see, and it had a spotlight upon it, 725 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: perhaps for the first time. So the culture of the 726 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:41,400 Speaker 1: country shifted and Shakespeare, if We're Good or Ill, started 727 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: to become regarded as more of a a highbrow form 728 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,720 Speaker 1: of entertainment. And I do want to take this moment 729 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 1: to point out that Shakespeare is still very accessible and 730 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,040 Speaker 1: super enjoyable if you get the chance to see a 731 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 1: solid production of it on stage. Uh, the shows are 732 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,280 Speaker 1: a lot of fun, They're worth the price of a ticket, 733 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,200 Speaker 1: and perhaps most importantly, you don't have to riot to 734 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: have a riotous good time. Well said Ben Well said, 735 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 1: And way to bring a full circle, so we can 736 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: wrap this one up for today. Huge thanks to super 737 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,759 Speaker 1: producer Casey Pragam Here in spirit today along with Christopher Hascios. 738 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,080 Speaker 1: They're kind of hovering above us in the clouds, looking 739 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,200 Speaker 1: down on us like good ghost parents. Uh, and I 740 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,400 Speaker 1: really appreciate that as always. Yeah, and of course huge 741 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 1: thanks to the quister also known as Jonathan Strickland, who 742 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,120 Speaker 1: was gonna be a little bit a little bit dumpling 743 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,560 Speaker 1: steamed to know that. Uh, we didn't have him on 744 00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: his Shakespeare episode, but we'll make it up to him. 745 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: And of course big big thanks to Gaye Lousier or 746 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,200 Speaker 1: Gaye Lousier however you wish to pronounce it for some 747 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,360 Speaker 1: awesome research Alley oops with us one h thanks to 748 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,319 Speaker 1: Alex Williams who composed our themis Jeff Coach. Check out 749 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,799 Speaker 1: her show um this day in History class, along with 750 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,839 Speaker 1: amazing new things that she's got in the in the 751 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,840 Speaker 1: works that can't talk about quite yet, but be on 752 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,399 Speaker 1: the lookout big things coming from Eaves and man beat. 753 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 1: Thanks to you for joining me in this Shakespeare Ryan 754 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: throwing back a bottle of good tidings. Uh and great 755 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,319 Speaker 1: joy and old thanks for thanks for shotgunning with me 756 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 1: on this one without either of us actually firing a shotgun, 757 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 1: which apparently sets the bar of podcasting a little bit 758 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:28,080 Speaker 1: higher than the bar of mid Shakespeare performances. I don't 759 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 1: know if there's an Emmy for that or a Webby, 760 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,800 Speaker 1: but you know, you can just you can just reward 761 00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,439 Speaker 1: us by hanging out with us on the internet where 762 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:43,400 Speaker 1: we are Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, We're Ridiculous History or some 763 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,160 Speaker 1: derivation thereof. But of course the best place to find us, 764 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,560 Speaker 1: and more importantly your fellow listeners is to join Ridiculous 765 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: Historians our Facebook page. Yes, I have to do his 766 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,680 Speaker 1: name one or both or anybody part of the Ridiculous 767 00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,319 Speaker 1: History mythos uh, and you'll be in and lots of 768 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,959 Speaker 1: good times to be had there. Uh. You can also 769 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 1: check out me and Ben as individual human beings on 770 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,320 Speaker 1: the Internet. I am at how Now Noel Brown on Instagram, 771 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,560 Speaker 1: I am at Ben Bulling H s W on Twitter, 772 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,520 Speaker 1: and I am at Ben Bulling on Instagram, where I 773 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:20,880 Speaker 1: go through various weird visual thesis like right now I 774 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 1: live with a life size plastic skeleton, because that's that's 775 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 1: where I am. In the age of pandemic names. We're 776 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,000 Speaker 1: all somewhere doing our best every day. Please join us 777 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 1: for the next episode of Ridiculous History, where super Breuster 778 00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,759 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram will return from his his sick leave and 779 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:39,640 Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll make him brown. We'll see you next 780 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:51,879 Speaker 1: time Fox. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit 781 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 782 00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:55,960 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.