Speaker 1: Before we get into what this week's episode is about.
Speaker 1: This is airing on Memorial Day. If anyone is listening
Speaker 1: who lost a loved one in the line of duty,
Speaker 1: I just want you to know that our hearts are
Speaker 1: with you, our prayers are with you. I'm so sorry
Speaker 1: for your loss. We honor your loved one and their
Speaker 1: sacrifices for this country. If anyone who's listening who is
Speaker 1: served or is currently serving, I just want to thank
Speaker 1: you for what you're doing for this country. I know
Speaker 1: it's probably a frustrating time with all this wokee nonsense
Speaker 1: that the Biden administration is doing, but we appreciate you
Speaker 1: and we thank you for your service in.
Speaker 2: Honor of all that.
Speaker 1: The conversation we're going to have today is with a
Speaker 1: man named Chief Michael Carmichael. He is the founder of
Speaker 1: an organization called Chekovet. He retired as an Army Chief
Speaker 1: Warrant Officer for He served ten combat deployments to countries
Speaker 1: like Iraq. He was in Special Forces for twenty two years,
Speaker 1: which is a long time. He has served multiple depployments.
Speaker 1: As I pointed out, what is the whole of a
Speaker 1: twenty year war under military men and women. Have we
Speaker 1: even comprehended what we have done to so many young people,
Speaker 1: to so many people to have served multiple deployments in
Speaker 1: these different arenas. We often hear the number of twenty
Speaker 1: two vets a day, but it has been reported recently
Speaker 1: that it might even be double, that it's significantly higher
Speaker 1: than twenty two vets a day. So don't we have
Speaker 1: a duty to the people who gave so much to
Speaker 1: our country to the point where they've come home and
Speaker 1: thinking about perhaps ending their lives. We have a duty
Speaker 1: to try to understand what they've been through, what they're
Speaker 1: going through, and try to find a way to help them.
Speaker 1: Now Chief Michael Carmichael is doing just that with Check
Speaker 1: a Vet. So what we're going to do today is
Speaker 1: just talk to him about his services, his experience being
Speaker 1: in the Special Forces for twenty two years, what those
Speaker 1: multiple combat deployments have done to him, perhaps his mental health.
Speaker 1: Talk to him about what he's experienced, and then also
Speaker 1: why he decided to found Check a Vet and what
Speaker 1: he's doing with that. So stay tuned for Chief Michael Carmichael.
Speaker 1: Chief Carmichael, first of all, thank you for your servicer.
Speaker 1: We just appreciate what you've done for the country. You
Speaker 1: joined the Montana National Guard at seventeen years old with
Speaker 1: consent for your parents. What led seventeen year old Michael
Speaker 1: at the time to join the National Guard?
Speaker 3: All my best friends, who were twin brothers joined. They
Speaker 3: literally came up to me and they're like, hey, I
Speaker 3: guess what we did well? They had joined the National Guard.
Speaker 3: So I teased them for weeks until the realization that
Speaker 3: I was going to spend my last summer without my
Speaker 3: best friends. So eventually I ate Crow and ask him
Speaker 3: where to sign up and the rest is history.
Speaker 1: Before we get into what you're doing with trying to
Speaker 1: help veterans with suicide, we're seeing a major recruiting problem
Speaker 1: in the military right now. Why do you think more
Speaker 1: and more young people are deciding against joining?
Speaker 3: If I could be honest and use the caveat in
Speaker 3: my opinion, I would say they're not Younger people aren't
Speaker 3: used to hard work.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: And after the National Guard, you went on to join
Speaker 1: the Special Forces. I think it was in nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 1: You attended Special Forces selected an assessment.
Speaker 2: Is that correct?
Speaker 4: Yes? Man, it's selection and assessment.
Speaker 2: Okay, there you go.
Speaker 1: And then you went on to spend twenty two years
Speaker 1: in the US Special Forces with ten combat deployments Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a long time. You know, that's a
Speaker 1: lot of service to the country. That's a lot of
Speaker 1: combat that you saw. What kind of toll does that
Speaker 1: take on your body, on your mind, and on your life.
Speaker 3: Pleasa, I think we're all put on this earth to
Speaker 3: do something, and I think God put me on this
Speaker 3: earth to do that. Surprisingly, I'm still relatively fit, at
Speaker 3: least I like to think so, still have my faculties.
Speaker 3: As I retired from the service and the VA had
Speaker 3: to assume responsibility of me, they kept having me do
Speaker 3: the psyche vals over and over and over again, and
Speaker 3: I come to find out it's because they couldn't find
Speaker 3: any signs of PTSD, which was pretty unique. I guess
Speaker 3: I'm a unicorn, but no, I mean, I don't have
Speaker 3: any complaints. It was a blink of an eye, and
Speaker 3: I only wished I could do more.
Speaker 1: How frequent is PTSD among our veterans.
Speaker 3: As I look across the landscape of my friends and
Speaker 3: fellow operators and just other guys that I had served with,
Speaker 3: it's it's got to be in the ninety percent percentile
Speaker 3: and to talk to that. And this is something that
Speaker 3: I completely don't understand is.
Speaker 5: Some of the worst people that struggle with PTSD the
Speaker 5: most are from MOSS that are like cooks and truck
Speaker 5: drivers and equipment operators who never even actually you know,
Speaker 5: left the fob and got to you know, employ their
Speaker 5: weapon and people Americas save for democracy.
Speaker 4: They never left.
Speaker 2: So why do you think that is.
Speaker 3: That's a great question and it's got a simple answer.
Speaker 3: Being a ranger in Special Forces, even an infantryman, there's
Speaker 3: so much that you go through to make sure that
Speaker 3: you're of the right cloth. So we're tested to make
Speaker 3: sure that we're more prepared, whereas the cooks and the
Speaker 3: truck drivers they're just thrown in.
Speaker 4: So maybe there's some strong correlation with that.
Speaker 1: No, I've talked to a lot of Special Forces guys
Speaker 1: who talk about sort of the difficulty when you come
Speaker 1: home and just feeling like life's kind of passed you
Speaker 1: by here and or you know, or you know, life
Speaker 1: is you've been out you know, wherever, in the mountains
Speaker 1: of Afghanistan or whatever, and it feels like it's been
Speaker 1: you know, like one hundred years for you because you've
Speaker 1: seen so much, You've gone through so much, you've grown
Speaker 1: so much as a person, and seeing all that and
Speaker 1: then you know, you come home and it feels like
Speaker 1: a lot of the folks in your life are still
Speaker 1: up and you know, things that sort of don't matter
Speaker 1: as much, or you know, sort of insignificant things, or
Speaker 1: the same girlfriend they were hung up on, or whatever
Speaker 1: it is. You know, how how hard is that coming
Speaker 1: home when obviously you've just been through something that the
Speaker 1: people in your life just aren't going to really be
Speaker 1: able to understand.
Speaker 3: That leads me to an experience that I had. I
Speaker 3: just came home from one of our toughest tours in Iraq,
Speaker 3: and I remember standing in the Walmart line and the
Speaker 3: lady who was in front of me was completely stressed out,
Speaker 3: you know, being being a pain and being ugly to
Speaker 3: the clerk. And I remember thinking in my mind, I'm
Speaker 3: glad that this American thinks that that's what stress is,
Speaker 3: because that's not stress. So coming home, it's it's always
Speaker 3: a transition. Some some people do it better than others,
Speaker 3: And I would say from my experience, the more you
Speaker 3: do it, the easier it gets. But you have to
Speaker 3: read that when you do come home, your family unit
Speaker 3: has completely adapted to life without you. So a big
Speaker 3: mistake that type A personalities have when they come home,
Speaker 3: It's like, Okay, Daddy's home and I'm in charge again.
Speaker 3: So everybody back up. So you can't do that.
Speaker 4: You can't.
Speaker 3: You have to be more sensitive to what everybody's been
Speaker 3: doing and making the households about.
Speaker 1: You had mentioned coming back from one of the toughest
Speaker 1: tours in Iraq. What made that specific tour so difficult?
Speaker 4: I very sensitively used toughest.
Speaker 3: I would say that was one of my most enjoyable
Speaker 3: and productive tours. That was I think two thousand and seven,
Speaker 3: when General Petraeus had started doing the blockade around Beg
Speaker 3: Dad in order to lock down the city and keep
Speaker 3: the bombs and the bad guys out. It was just
Speaker 3: that tour was you know, glory. They say pain heels.
Speaker 3: You know, chicks dig scars, but glory lasts forever. That
Speaker 3: trip was nothing but glory. So that's how I look
Speaker 3: at it. It was a it was a great experience
Speaker 3: for me, but it was a it was a huge
Speaker 3: grind for all of us, but a good deal for me.
Speaker 1: Is it frustrating to have spent time in Afghanistan and
Speaker 1: Iraq and then see what's been happening in Afghanistan and
Speaker 1: to see it fall so quickly.
Speaker 4: I love that you're.
Speaker 3: Asking me that question, because I think my perspective is
Speaker 3: pretty unique. It broke my heart when we came home
Speaker 3: from Iraq. I did eight tours in Iraq, and really
Speaker 3: I was in Iraq before the war started. I infilled
Speaker 3: a team of an agency and Delta operators and I
Speaker 3: had so much invested in Iraq that when we pulled
Speaker 3: out and the way that we pulled out, it broke
Speaker 3: my heart. But I knew at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: I had the maturity to understand, this is not our country.
Speaker 3: It is not fair for us to impose our presence
Speaker 3: and values on the world. So I think I got
Speaker 3: a little calloused by that in a good way. And
Speaker 3: when they shut down Afghanistan, sure there was there was
Speaker 3: lots of issues with that, and I'm not going to
Speaker 3: defend any of that at all. All I can say
Speaker 3: is from my perspective, when you boil all the meat
Speaker 3: off of the bone, we had to leave somehow. We
Speaker 3: didn't do it gracefully, but we left.
Speaker 1: I think that. You know, look, I agree with you
Speaker 1: know what you just said. You know, obviously you've lived this,
Speaker 1: you know I haven't, So I respect what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Do you feel in those experiences and spending time in
Speaker 1: these countries where you know, obviously the objective turned into
Speaker 1: two nation building more or less? Is that sort of
Speaker 1: a fruitless exercise? I mean, you'd talked about how, you know,
Speaker 1: we can't really impose our will and or values on
Speaker 1: some of these other countries. You know, they are these
Speaker 1: countries are what they are.
Speaker 4: You know, that's great.
Speaker 3: So I was actually there when I think his name
Speaker 3: was Brenner, and so the State Department sent this guy
Speaker 3: and he was really in charge of the nation building.
Speaker 3: And the first thing that this guy wanted to do
Speaker 3: was anybody that was in the bath party was bad, okay.
Speaker 3: And what I was screaming back then was, hey, everybody's
Speaker 3: in the bath party. It's not like you got Republicans, Democrats,
Speaker 3: and independents. There's only one show in town. So with
Speaker 3: regard to nation building, that was a huge mistake.
Speaker 4: That took a couple of.
Speaker 3: Years for us to write and go out and find
Speaker 3: those people who could run the systems of government that
Speaker 3: we needed ran.
Speaker 4: But then two even at the end of the.
Speaker 3: Day, as we as we closed Iraq, and you know,
Speaker 3: even in like four h five, I really saw the
Speaker 3: writing on the wall that by doing one man, one
Speaker 3: vote in the non representative type of government like Lebanon has,
Speaker 3: they have a representative democracy. So if we do one man,
Speaker 3: one vote and look over the country of Iraq, well,
Speaker 3: guess what, you just handed the country to Iran and
Speaker 3: the Shia, which is something the Iran Iraq Wars couldn't do.
Speaker 3: But by us doing what we did and not being
Speaker 3: sensitive to a comprehensive nation building strategy really alienated the
Speaker 3: Sunnis and alienated the Kurds in the north.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously, having spent time in you know, Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: let's say, you know, you saw you know, terrorists, you
Speaker 1: know up close, you know, what should people know about
Speaker 1: you know, the Taliban and and sort of what did
Speaker 1: you see?
Speaker 3: At least a full disclosure. I never step foot in Afghanistan.
Speaker 3: I was I was in the invasion and I was
Speaker 3: actually on the first Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha that
Speaker 3: was chosen to do a MIC force. We hadn't done
Speaker 3: a MIC force since Vietnam, and what that is is
Speaker 3: we're going to put American troops in an adjacent country
Speaker 3: to interdict the bad guys as they come and go
Speaker 3: from what they perceived to be a safe area. So
Speaker 3: that said, while I was in Pakistan, I'm very comfortable
Speaker 3: saying that the terrorists and the bad guys, the talib
Speaker 3: and the al Qaeda operators that we saw there was
Speaker 3: there were so many of them, and there they're demeanors
Speaker 3: were different because they thought that they were in a
Speaker 3: safe zone.
Speaker 4: But that said, you get down to.
Speaker 3: The ideology of the people, and like some of the
Speaker 3: hardest fighters and some of the most ruthless terrorists are
Speaker 3: those that really believe that their mission and purpose is
Speaker 3: grounded in Allah, is grounded in God.
Speaker 4: So how do you fight that. The only thing you
Speaker 4: can do is eliminate it.
Speaker 3: But to answer your question, it's really unique to see
Speaker 3: I consider myself a very godly person, but it's unique
Speaker 3: to see a group of people justify the worst the
Speaker 3: word at least, I'm talking the worst behavior you can
Speaker 3: imagine with God wants me to do this, So that's.
Speaker 1: It, Okay, So this is why I saw that on
Speaker 1: the bio said the initial invasion into Afghanistan. So that's
Speaker 1: where the disconnect came from where you were just laying out,
Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick commercial break more with
Speaker 1: Chief Michael Carmichael. Let's sit sears into check a VET.
Speaker 1: So you had talked about how you know you're one
Speaker 1: of the lucky ones who haven't suffered from PTSD. So
Speaker 1: why didn't take on the mantle of check a Vet.
Speaker 1: You know what sort of spurred that decision to want
Speaker 1: to be a part of that or to start it.
Speaker 3: The bottom line is I don't want to complain about
Speaker 3: something without offering a solution. I was a founder and
Speaker 3: a national secretary for a different nonprofit whose mission was
Speaker 3: the same. They wanted to prevent veteran suicide, but their
Speaker 3: approach was completely different. And it's an approach that you
Speaker 3: see across the nonprofit landscape, and that's, hey, we're going
Speaker 3: to prevent veteran suicide by taking them hunting or fishing
Speaker 3: or to a concert.
Speaker 4: And as a founding member, having been in the.
Speaker 3: Room as the idea took shape, I was like, guys,
Speaker 3: this is not it. There's eighteen million veterans. You can't
Speaker 3: take them all hunting and fishing, even if you could.
Speaker 3: Even if you could, suicide is a struggle that lasts
Speaker 3: period of time, maybe the rest of their lives. So
Speaker 3: going hunting or fishing it just doesn't match. It doesn't
Speaker 3: accomplish our mission. So what we have to do is
Speaker 3: three things, and we have to do those three things. Well,
Speaker 3: the first thing, Lisa, is what you're doing right now.
Speaker 3: You're helping check of raise awareness to veteran suicide. You
Speaker 3: know your reputation of putting what matters out in the
Speaker 3: news cycle. You're doing it right now. So raise awareness
Speaker 3: of veteran suicide. What are the numbers? What are the problems?
Speaker 3: Then two, we need to get Americans involved in veterans' lives.
Speaker 3: Everybody's too busy. You know, veterans are their own worst enemy.
Speaker 3: Where grumpy or whatever. Get past all that. These are
Speaker 3: our nation's heroes. They deserve our effort and time. And
Speaker 3: then three, once we get those people involved in veterans' lives,
Speaker 3: we really need to provide some education on what the
Speaker 3: protective and risk factors are to suicide. So as you
Speaker 3: observe somebody's behavior, you can kind of take notes and
Speaker 3: refer back, like, hey, you know this is what he's
Speaker 3: doing or she's doing here is not good.
Speaker 4: It's risky behavior. So those are the three.
Speaker 3: Things, and that's really the approach and where I came
Speaker 3: from and what led me to start checking out.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm grumpy sometimes, but I have no excuse, so
Speaker 1: I haven't earned the ability to be to be grumpy.
Speaker 1: You know, you had mentioned some of the risk factors.
Speaker 1: You know, surely there are a lot of people listening
Speaker 1: who have a loved one who has served and they
Speaker 1: might be wondering, you know, what are some of the
Speaker 1: risk factors. You know, what should they look for if
Speaker 1: they might be concerned that, you know, maybe they're a
Speaker 1: loved one who has returned having some challenges with that.
Speaker 3: I tell you A big one and it's easy to
Speaker 3: spot is isolation. My brothers and sisters, something will happen.
Speaker 3: And I did it myself. I mean, my transition out
Speaker 3: of the military was very difficult, so I isolated. I
Speaker 3: had gone from having the confidence of my commanders and
Speaker 3: my men to literally putting a dent in my bed.
Speaker 3: So that isolation is a terrible risk factor. But other
Speaker 3: more subtle things that you can look for are like
Speaker 3: needless risk taking, like driving fast or being what other
Speaker 3: people would consider crazy. And then you get into some
Speaker 3: of the bedrock ones, which is untreated mental illness, untreated
Speaker 3: alcohol or substance abuse. These as we talk about these
Speaker 3: risk factors, really these are the problems that is suicide.
Speaker 3: Suicide is a symptom, it's not the problem. If you
Speaker 3: treat these risk factors in a responsible way, you'll never
Speaker 3: have the suicide. So that's how I look at the
Speaker 3: risk factors.
Speaker 2: Do we have an idea?
Speaker 1: I know that you know the twenty two a day
Speaker 1: number has been put out there of you know, veteran
Speaker 1: suicides per day.
Speaker 2: Is that accurate?
Speaker 1: My understanding is there's recently been some question that it
Speaker 1: might be substantially higher, perhaps even double.
Speaker 2: Do we have an accurate number?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: Do we know have they tried to get to the
Speaker 1: bottom of that of just how prevalent this is in society?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the twenty two a day has really been in
Speaker 3: the in the narrative since I think about twenty seventeen
Speaker 3: or eighteen when according to the VA, that was the number.
Speaker 3: So but this year as their numbers report for back
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty, if you look at the VA's numbers,
Speaker 3: it's sixteen point eight veteran suicides per day, so called
Speaker 3: that seventeen but AWP, the American Warrior Partnership received a
Speaker 3: grant from Bristol Myers Squib that was like three point
Speaker 3: five million, and they partnered with Duke and then they
Speaker 3: partnered with the University of Alabama and they really got
Speaker 3: after looking and trying to define the problem, and it
Speaker 3: was it was really thoughtful because they started in the
Speaker 3: small towns and then the cities and the counties, and
Speaker 3: then across the states. And one of the states that
Speaker 3: they did was Montana, who at the time was the
Speaker 3: worst state in the nation for suicide. But what they
Speaker 3: came up with was the VA is under reporting the
Speaker 3: suicides by a factor of two point four times.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it is more than double.
Speaker 3: But if you look into the methodology of Operation Deep Dive,
Speaker 3: which is what I'm talking about, they had a lot
Speaker 3: of struggles trying to get inform and in fact they
Speaker 3: had to exclude some of the worst groups for suicide
Speaker 3: because the information simply wasn't there. So I would say
Speaker 3: it's worse than two point four times the reported numbers.
Speaker 1: Well, that's a sad reflection of the VA. If they're
Speaker 1: intentionally under reporting that. I assume it's because it maybe
Speaker 1: implicates them and perhaps not giving the services that we
Speaker 1: should be giving to veterans. What is the sort of
Speaker 1: the collective experience in dealing with the VA.
Speaker 4: I have a good relationship with the VA.
Speaker 3: That said, I think that if you do an amazing
Speaker 3: job for ten people, maybe one of them will tell
Speaker 3: some of their friends that you did an amazing job.
Speaker 3: But if you do a crappy job for one person,
Speaker 3: they're going to tell everybody they know that you did
Speaker 3: a crappy job. So in the context of the VA,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want that job. And I know that they
Speaker 3: do good, but the times where they're not doing good,
Speaker 3: it's amplified so loud that you can't hear the good
Speaker 3: past that. Yeah, I really cringe when I get into
Speaker 3: the subject of the manipulation of data.
Speaker 4: I've become a nerd.
Speaker 3: I went from a barrel chested freedom fighter who was
Speaker 3: taking care of business overseas to burying my nose in
Speaker 3: appendixes and data spreadsheets and all that stuff. You just
Speaker 3: there's no other way to look at it other than
Speaker 3: intentional data manipulation. And I throw my hands up and
Speaker 3: think I wouldn't want to be in charge of this mission.
Speaker 3: But if I was, my God, I'm going to do
Speaker 3: accurate reporting so that the people who are holding me
Speaker 3: accountable at least know how bad the problem is. Don't
Speaker 3: twist it, report it own it.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, we've seen, especially in the age of COVID, a
Speaker 1: lot of government manipulation when it comes to data. You know,
Speaker 1: it's if you're looking for truth, you're you're not going
Speaker 1: to get it from from government, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Do we know you know?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously a twenty year war is substantial. I mean,
Speaker 1: you've got a lot of people having done multiple deployments,
Speaker 1: such as yourself, you know, in various arenas. You talked
Speaker 1: about your experience in Iraq. Do we have data? I mean,
Speaker 1: do we have information about the toll that that takes
Speaker 1: on one's body? I mean, have there been other points
Speaker 1: in history where we have sent people, you know, back
Speaker 1: that many times to these different arenas in such a
Speaker 1: you know, period of time.
Speaker 4: Absolutely not. This was unique.
Speaker 3: I mean, look look back to the years World War One,
Speaker 3: World War two, Korea, I think Korea to a lesser extent,
Speaker 3: but the Great Wars, it was Hey, go over there
Speaker 3: and win. You know, I think that there was a
Speaker 3: cutoff of a year, maybe a couple of years. But
Speaker 3: go over there, win and then you can come home.
Speaker 3: The idea of this slow grind campaign and then the
Speaker 3: toll that that takes one because think about putting yourself
Speaker 3: on the airplane going home like whoo, we made it.
Speaker 3: But then as soon as you land they're talking about
Speaker 3: getting ready for the next trip. That's a pretty tough
Speaker 3: psychological bag to carry around. So, yeah, there's never been
Speaker 3: anything like it, and I hope that we never do
Speaker 3: that again to our soldiers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, mean, it's almost like you never get your footing
Speaker 1: right because if you're going home and then immediately being
Speaker 1: sent back, you just you never have time to reconnect
Speaker 1: with loved ones. I can't imagine how hard that would
Speaker 1: be just to be, you know, continuously away from the
Speaker 1: people you love that many times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the footing it at home is terrible. If commanders
Speaker 3: are thoughtful about deployments and they send the same troops
Speaker 3: back to the same locations over and over again, which
Speaker 3: pretty much nobody he did. But in second Battalion, fists,
Speaker 3: special Forces groups, you know, commanders like Colonel Chris Miller.
Speaker 3: He did this, and because we kept going back to
Speaker 3: the same place, there was nobody in the country who
Speaker 3: was smarter on our areas than we were, because we
Speaker 3: had to established institutional knowledge on the bad guys, the
Speaker 3: good guys, the terrain and the situation.
Speaker 4: So it's really a double edged sword.
Speaker 3: But to get to the point, yeah, it's the most
Speaker 3: difficult on the families.
Speaker 4: And you know, it's a terrible thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, those of us who haven't served
Speaker 1: have no idea what that's like to be away from family,
Speaker 1: you know that much, right, and to be that far
Speaker 1: away from family in the sense of, you know, you're
Speaker 1: at a totally different part of the world. You're isolated.
Speaker 1: You know, the ability to communicate communicates probably lacking. You
Speaker 1: know how how challenging is that for our men and
Speaker 1: women and and for you to to you know, to
Speaker 1: be gone that many times from the people you love.
Speaker 4: It's tough.
Speaker 3: But I mean not only being gone. I think of
Speaker 3: the culture shock of this. You know, when desert storm
Speaker 3: broke out the ground war started. I was a college
Speaker 3: student at Montana State University living in Montana, Altito, Tigh.
Speaker 4: It's cold.
Speaker 3: Hardly anybody there, So think about the culture shock to
Speaker 3: go from there to be uprooted and land in Saudi
Speaker 3: Arabia where it's just so hot you can't do anything.
Speaker 4: There's all the you know.
Speaker 3: The the feeling of war and all of that stuff.
Speaker 3: The culture shock was tremendous, It really was. So to
Speaker 3: try to get your footing anywhere would be tough with
Speaker 3: that scenario.
Speaker 4: But to keep going and keep going. I think that
Speaker 4: as soon as they decide to.
Speaker 3: Send this person back, they're already off balance before they
Speaker 3: get there.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I try to put my you know, in these conversations
Speaker 1: I have with you know, folks like you.
Speaker 2: I try to.
Speaker 1: It's just it's hard to even imagine being, you know,
Speaker 1: so young with that kind of responsibility in front of you.
Speaker 2: I just I can't. You know, I was an idiot
Speaker 2: when I was young.
Speaker 1: I mean I'm still an idiot sometimes, but you know,
Speaker 1: I definitely didn't have, you know, just the level of
Speaker 1: responsibility that you had in your life at a young age.
Speaker 2: It just can't.
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to wrap your head around, to
Speaker 1: be honest, if for someone that's not been in your shoes.
Speaker 3: I don't think somebody who wasn't in those shoes, can
Speaker 3: even fathom it. Think about standing in front of a
Speaker 3: crowd of people who were, you know, maybe throwing rocks
Speaker 3: or screaming at you, and you're standing there as an
Speaker 3: American soldier with your gear on and a loaded gun
Speaker 3: in your hand, and to have the maturity to not
Speaker 3: defend yourself up until the very last moment. That's not
Speaker 3: a natural thing, and the responsibility of that is ginormous.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's very tough and hard to understand, very.
Speaker 1: Much so, but I appreciate you sharing that with us,
Speaker 1: you know, because it does help us get a better
Speaker 1: insight into some of the things that you know, you
Speaker 1: guys go through quick break stay with us, what at
Speaker 1: all that time in the military just teach you about life,
Speaker 1: Like what if you kind of have to reflect back
Speaker 1: on twenty two years and the Special Forces, what are
Speaker 1: your takeaways from that?
Speaker 4: As I talk.
Speaker 3: About or consider my deployments, I think it's a fair
Speaker 3: caveat to say I wasn't sent to a lot of
Speaker 3: nice places. I was send to the armpits of the
Speaker 3: world that you know, had tremendous conflict. But even that said,
Speaker 3: I love the people. I mean, you think about the
Speaker 3: Muslim brothers that I have to this day because I
Speaker 3: fought alongside of them in their land. It's really given
Speaker 3: me a whole different level of open mindedness. Like I
Speaker 3: talked about Afghanistan, Hey, we got to get out. It's
Speaker 3: not fair for us to impose our morals and something
Speaker 3: on a land that's not ours. But that maturity or
Speaker 3: you know, the idea if somebody's racist, if you wanted
Speaker 3: to give them a prescription to not be racist, send
Speaker 3: them around the world so that they can walk a
Speaker 3: mile in other people's shoes and that insight that they'll
Speaker 3: get that that worldly view is.
Speaker 4: It's truly amazing.
Speaker 2: What's been your experience.
Speaker 1: And working with other vets with check a vet, you
Speaker 1: know sort of kind of what's that been like for
Speaker 1: you to be able to obviously meet a ton of
Speaker 1: people who also have similar experiences you and just to
Speaker 1: try to help them going through you know, a tough time, right?
Speaker 2: What's that been like?
Speaker 4: Lisa?
Speaker 3: I say that I adopt veterans all the time who
Speaker 3: were in distress, and I do all I can for
Speaker 3: them from the other end of the phone. But these
Speaker 3: are men and women who really don't communicate with anybody
Speaker 3: else I might be like the straw of the outside
Speaker 3: world that they look through, but veterans, so many veterans
Speaker 3: are just so broken. I say, we're our own worst enemy.
Speaker 3: We need to be open to receiving help when somebody
Speaker 3: offers it.
Speaker 4: Difficult people. So mostly the engagement that Chekov has with
Speaker 4: veterans is people who are struggling seem to, you know,
Speaker 4: migrate to us, and that's perfect. You know.
Speaker 3: I want those people to have hope. I want those
Speaker 3: people to have an understanding, but I also want those
Speaker 3: men and women to be more open to people wanting
Speaker 3: to be involved in their lives and to be less
Speaker 3: of a knucklehead, or to be less stubborn, or to
Speaker 3: be more you know, patient, you know, with with other people.
Speaker 3: So that I don't have to tell anybody who's dealt
Speaker 3: with veterans, you know, combat veterans, that you really have
Speaker 3: to be patient and be understanding because they deserve it.
Speaker 4: You know, they deserve it. And yeah, they are difficult,
Speaker 4: but let's deal with it because they do deserve it.
Speaker 1: Now, I imagine part of the challenge for people who
Speaker 1: are are struggling with even just wanting to live is
Speaker 1: you know, obviously this is going to air a Memorial Day.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how hard it has to be to
Speaker 1: be so closely tight with you know, your brothers and
Speaker 1: sisters in the uniform, and to lose them, you know,
Speaker 1: to know that you're going home to your family, but
Speaker 1: your friend is not. You know how big of a
Speaker 1: challenge is that for our military men and women to
Speaker 1: come home and knowing that a lot of your friends
Speaker 1: didn't have that same opportunity.
Speaker 3: That's called survivor's remorse, and really that is one of
Speaker 3: the scariest forms or you know, negative motivations for a
Speaker 3: veteran to end their life by suicide. In fact, if
Speaker 3: you go to our YouTube channel Chekov at three sixty
Speaker 3: five and watch one of twenty two, that's exactly what's
Speaker 3: going after and that's that's a veteran who lost his
Speaker 3: battle buddy overseas. So that I don't think that that's
Speaker 3: something you could ever rationalize. But if I could say
Speaker 3: one thing to the people that struggle with that, it
Speaker 3: would be don't you think your friend would want you
Speaker 3: to be happy? Don't you think your friend would want
Speaker 3: you to do well and be a good person. Look
Speaker 3: beyond their sacrifice, it's a volunteer service. They volunteered for it.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that they deserved it, but gosh, I
Speaker 3: would want all of my comrades, my brothers and sisters. Sure,
Speaker 3: keep a memory of me, but move on, live your life,
Speaker 3: be happy, could be a productive member of society.
Speaker 4: You deserve it.
Speaker 1: Before we go, what do you think makes check a
Speaker 1: VETTE different than you know, maybe some other veterans organizations LEASA.
Speaker 4: Our message is suicide is preventable.
Speaker 3: Don't treat suicide like it's the problem, because really it's not.
Speaker 4: Suicide is a symptom of the problem.
Speaker 3: Find out what is stressing your veteran out, you know,
Speaker 3: be it. Is it a financial problem, is it a
Speaker 3: struggle with something, whatever it is, find that stressor that
Speaker 3: could lead somebody down the path of wanting to hurt
Speaker 3: themselves and treat that and then guess what, there won't
Speaker 3: be a suicide.
Speaker 4: So that's one and then two.
Speaker 3: Be meaningfully and routinely involved in your veterans' lives.
Speaker 4: They deserve it, they need it.
Speaker 3: You know, they spent their whole careers as a member
Speaker 3: of a team. But as they get out now the
Speaker 3: anow they're just an isolated individual.
Speaker 4: Get them back on a team, Get them back on
Speaker 4: your team.
Speaker 1: Where can people go to learn more about checkovet or
Speaker 1: to help out.
Speaker 4: Please go to check a ed dot org and learn.
Speaker 4: You know, come with open mind.
Speaker 3: And from the very beginning my vernacular was I don't
Speaker 3: really care about anything other than people wanting to be
Speaker 3: involved in their veterans' lives. But my learned one of
Speaker 3: my hardest lessons is you can't raise awareness if you
Speaker 3: don't have the resources to do it. Guess what, Facebook
Speaker 3: ain't going to let you boost a post for nothing,
Speaker 3: even no matter how good your causes. So I think
Speaker 3: last month we hit over ten thousand people across their
Speaker 3: social media.
Speaker 4: But we need help.
Speaker 3: Let's take ten thousand and turn it into one hundred,
Speaker 3: then a million, and then one hundred million. We need
Speaker 3: resources to do that, and at checkovet dot org there's
Speaker 3: a contribute button, And I really hope that if people
Speaker 3: believe in what we're trying to do and how we're
Speaker 3: trying to do it, give us a hand because it's
Speaker 3: only going to make us better, stronger, and faster.
Speaker 1: Well, Chief Carmarcle, I appreciate you taking the time to
Speaker 1: just share your story and to be so honest and
Speaker 1: open about you know your experiences, and you know thank
Speaker 1: you for helping your fellow vets, and most importantly, thank
Speaker 1: you for your service.
Speaker 4: Sir Lisa, thank you for paying your taxes. I appreciate your.
Speaker 3: Thanks to me, but I'm sure I spent all of
Speaker 3: your tax money on bombs and bullets.
Speaker 4: But I appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Thank you for being a hero in my mind and
Speaker 3: getting this message out there. And anytime you want me back,
Speaker 3: if I'm welcome, I'll be there with Belze.
Speaker 2: Thank you, sir. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 4: Yes, ma'am, thank you.
Speaker 1: That was Chief Michael Carmichael, founder and president of check
Speaker 1: a Vet. Appreciate his service and just taking the time
Speaker 1: to join the show. It's always interesting and I think
Speaker 1: important to talk to people about their experiences because obviously
Speaker 1: for those of us who did not serve, it's hard
Speaker 1: to really know what these folks have been through unless
Speaker 1: you take the time to have these conversations. And so
Speaker 1: that's always my intent and my purpose in talking to
Speaker 1: people who have served, is just to really try to
Speaker 1: get the best understanding I can of what they've been through,
Speaker 1: so that we just have a better understanding. So I
Speaker 1: appreciate you at home for listening every Monday and Thursday,
Speaker 1: but of course you can listen throughout the week. I
Speaker 1: want to thank John Cassio and my producer for putting
Speaker 1: the show together. Apologies for my voice. I'm still a
Speaker 1: little bit sick, so that's what I sound like. Please
Speaker 1: leave us a review, give us a rating on Apple Podcast.
Speaker 1: Until next time,