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Speaker 1: Before we get into what this week's episode is about.

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Speaker 1: This is airing on Memorial Day. If anyone is listening

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Speaker 1: who lost a loved one in the line of duty,

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Speaker 1: I just want you to know that our hearts are

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Speaker 1: with you, our prayers are with you. I'm so sorry

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Speaker 1: for your loss. We honor your loved one and their

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Speaker 1: sacrifices for this country. If anyone who's listening who is

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Speaker 1: served or is currently serving, I just want to thank

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Speaker 1: you for what you're doing for this country. I know

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Speaker 1: it's probably a frustrating time with all this wokee nonsense

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Speaker 1: that the Biden administration is doing, but we appreciate you

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Speaker 1: and we thank you for your service in.

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Speaker 2: Honor of all that.

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Speaker 1: The conversation we're going to have today is with a

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Speaker 1: man named Chief Michael Carmichael. He is the founder of

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Speaker 1: an organization called Chekovet. He retired as an Army Chief

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Speaker 1: Warrant Officer for He served ten combat deployments to countries

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Speaker 1: like Iraq. He was in Special Forces for twenty two years,

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Speaker 1: which is a long time. He has served multiple depployments.

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Speaker 1: As I pointed out, what is the whole of a

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Speaker 1: twenty year war under military men and women. Have we

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Speaker 1: even comprehended what we have done to so many young people,

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Speaker 1: to so many people to have served multiple deployments in

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Speaker 1: these different arenas. We often hear the number of twenty

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Speaker 1: two vets a day, but it has been reported recently

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Speaker 1: that it might even be double, that it's significantly higher

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Speaker 1: than twenty two vets a day. So don't we have

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Speaker 1: a duty to the people who gave so much to

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Speaker 1: our country to the point where they've come home and

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Speaker 1: thinking about perhaps ending their lives. We have a duty

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Speaker 1: to try to understand what they've been through, what they're

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Speaker 1: going through, and try to find a way to help them.

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Speaker 1: Now Chief Michael Carmichael is doing just that with Check

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Speaker 1: a Vet. So what we're going to do today is

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Speaker 1: just talk to him about his services, his experience being

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Speaker 1: in the Special Forces for twenty two years, what those

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Speaker 1: multiple combat deployments have done to him, perhaps his mental health.

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Speaker 1: Talk to him about what he's experienced, and then also

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Speaker 1: why he decided to found Check a Vet and what

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Speaker 1: he's doing with that. So stay tuned for Chief Michael Carmichael.

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Speaker 1: Chief Carmichael, first of all, thank you for your servicer.

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Speaker 1: We just appreciate what you've done for the country. You

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Speaker 1: joined the Montana National Guard at seventeen years old with

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Speaker 1: consent for your parents. What led seventeen year old Michael

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Speaker 1: at the time to join the National Guard?

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Speaker 3: All my best friends, who were twin brothers joined. They

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Speaker 3: literally came up to me and they're like, hey, I

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Speaker 3: guess what we did well? They had joined the National Guard.

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Speaker 3: So I teased them for weeks until the realization that

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Speaker 3: I was going to spend my last summer without my

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Speaker 3: best friends. So eventually I ate Crow and ask him

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Speaker 3: where to sign up and the rest is history.

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Speaker 1: Before we get into what you're doing with trying to

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Speaker 1: help veterans with suicide, we're seeing a major recruiting problem

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Speaker 1: in the military right now. Why do you think more

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Speaker 1: and more young people are deciding against joining?

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Speaker 3: If I could be honest and use the caveat in

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Speaker 3: my opinion, I would say they're not Younger people aren't

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Speaker 3: used to hard work.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: And after the National Guard, you went on to join

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Speaker 1: the Special Forces. I think it was in nineteen ninety four.

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Speaker 1: You attended Special Forces selected an assessment.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: Yes? Man, it's selection and assessment.

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Speaker 2: Okay, there you go.

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Speaker 1: And then you went on to spend twenty two years

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Speaker 1: in the US Special Forces with ten combat deployments Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's a long time. You know, that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of service to the country. That's a lot of

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Speaker 1: combat that you saw. What kind of toll does that

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Speaker 1: take on your body, on your mind, and on your life.

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Speaker 3: Pleasa, I think we're all put on this earth to

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Speaker 3: do something, and I think God put me on this

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Speaker 3: earth to do that. Surprisingly, I'm still relatively fit, at

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Speaker 3: least I like to think so, still have my faculties.

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Speaker 3: As I retired from the service and the VA had

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Speaker 3: to assume responsibility of me, they kept having me do

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Speaker 3: the psyche vals over and over and over again, and

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Speaker 3: I come to find out it's because they couldn't find

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Speaker 3: any signs of PTSD, which was pretty unique. I guess

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Speaker 3: I'm a unicorn, but no, I mean, I don't have

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Speaker 3: any complaints. It was a blink of an eye, and

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Speaker 3: I only wished I could do more.

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Speaker 1: How frequent is PTSD among our veterans.

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Speaker 3: As I look across the landscape of my friends and

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Speaker 3: fellow operators and just other guys that I had served with,

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Speaker 3: it's it's got to be in the ninety percent percentile

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Speaker 3: and to talk to that. And this is something that

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Speaker 3: I completely don't understand is.

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Speaker 5: Some of the worst people that struggle with PTSD the

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Speaker 5: most are from MOSS that are like cooks and truck

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Speaker 5: drivers and equipment operators who never even actually you know,

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Speaker 5: left the fob and got to you know, employ their

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Speaker 5: weapon and people Americas save for democracy.

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Speaker 4: They never left.

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Speaker 2: So why do you think that is.

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Speaker 3: That's a great question and it's got a simple answer.

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Speaker 3: Being a ranger in Special Forces, even an infantryman, there's

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Speaker 3: so much that you go through to make sure that

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Speaker 3: you're of the right cloth. So we're tested to make

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Speaker 3: sure that we're more prepared, whereas the cooks and the

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Speaker 3: truck drivers they're just thrown in.

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Speaker 4: So maybe there's some strong correlation with that.

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Speaker 1: No, I've talked to a lot of Special Forces guys

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Speaker 1: who talk about sort of the difficulty when you come

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Speaker 1: home and just feeling like life's kind of passed you

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Speaker 1: by here and or you know, or you know, life

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Speaker 1: is you've been out you know, wherever, in the mountains

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Speaker 1: of Afghanistan or whatever, and it feels like it's been

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Speaker 1: you know, like one hundred years for you because you've

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Speaker 1: seen so much, You've gone through so much, you've grown

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Speaker 1: so much as a person, and seeing all that and

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Speaker 1: then you know, you come home and it feels like

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Speaker 1: a lot of the folks in your life are still

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Speaker 1: up and you know, things that sort of don't matter

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Speaker 1: as much, or you know, sort of insignificant things, or

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Speaker 1: the same girlfriend they were hung up on, or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is. You know, how how hard is that coming

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Speaker 1: home when obviously you've just been through something that the

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Speaker 1: people in your life just aren't going to really be

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Speaker 1: able to understand.

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Speaker 3: That leads me to an experience that I had. I

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Speaker 3: just came home from one of our toughest tours in Iraq,

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Speaker 3: and I remember standing in the Walmart line and the

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Speaker 3: lady who was in front of me was completely stressed out,

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Speaker 3: you know, being being a pain and being ugly to

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Speaker 3: the clerk. And I remember thinking in my mind, I'm

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Speaker 3: glad that this American thinks that that's what stress is,

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Speaker 3: because that's not stress. So coming home, it's it's always

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Speaker 3: a transition. Some some people do it better than others,

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Speaker 3: And I would say from my experience, the more you

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Speaker 3: do it, the easier it gets. But you have to

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Speaker 3: read that when you do come home, your family unit

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Speaker 3: has completely adapted to life without you. So a big

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Speaker 3: mistake that type A personalities have when they come home,

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Speaker 3: It's like, Okay, Daddy's home and I'm in charge again.

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Speaker 3: So everybody back up. So you can't do that.

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Speaker 4: You can't.

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Speaker 3: You have to be more sensitive to what everybody's been

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Speaker 3: doing and making the households about.

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Speaker 1: You had mentioned coming back from one of the toughest

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Speaker 1: tours in Iraq. What made that specific tour so difficult?

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Speaker 4: I very sensitively used toughest.

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Speaker 3: I would say that was one of my most enjoyable

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Speaker 3: and productive tours. That was I think two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 3: when General Petraeus had started doing the blockade around Beg

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Speaker 3: Dad in order to lock down the city and keep

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Speaker 3: the bombs and the bad guys out. It was just

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Speaker 3: that tour was you know, glory. They say pain heels.

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Speaker 3: You know, chicks dig scars, but glory lasts forever. That

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Speaker 3: trip was nothing but glory. So that's how I look

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Speaker 3: at it. It was a it was a great experience

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Speaker 3: for me, but it was a it was a huge

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Speaker 3: grind for all of us, but a good deal for me.

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Speaker 1: Is it frustrating to have spent time in Afghanistan and

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Speaker 1: Iraq and then see what's been happening in Afghanistan and

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Speaker 1: to see it fall so quickly.

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Speaker 4: I love that you're.

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Speaker 3: Asking me that question, because I think my perspective is

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Speaker 3: pretty unique. It broke my heart when we came home

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Speaker 3: from Iraq. I did eight tours in Iraq, and really

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Speaker 3: I was in Iraq before the war started. I infilled

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Speaker 3: a team of an agency and Delta operators and I

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Speaker 3: had so much invested in Iraq that when we pulled

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Speaker 3: out and the way that we pulled out, it broke

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Speaker 3: my heart. But I knew at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: I had the maturity to understand, this is not our country.

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Speaker 3: It is not fair for us to impose our presence

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Speaker 3: and values on the world. So I think I got

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Speaker 3: a little calloused by that in a good way. And

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Speaker 3: when they shut down Afghanistan, sure there was there was

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Speaker 3: lots of issues with that, and I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: defend any of that at all. All I can say

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Speaker 3: is from my perspective, when you boil all the meat

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Speaker 3: off of the bone, we had to leave somehow. We

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Speaker 3: didn't do it gracefully, but we left.

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Speaker 1: I think that. You know, look, I agree with you

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Speaker 1: know what you just said. You know, obviously you've lived this,

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Speaker 1: you know I haven't, So I respect what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel in those experiences and spending time in

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Speaker 1: these countries where you know, obviously the objective turned into

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Speaker 1: two nation building more or less? Is that sort of

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Speaker 1: a fruitless exercise? I mean, you'd talked about how, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can't really impose our will and or values on

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Speaker 1: some of these other countries. You know, they are these

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Speaker 1: countries are what they are.

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Speaker 4: You know, that's great.

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Speaker 3: So I was actually there when I think his name

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Speaker 3: was Brenner, and so the State Department sent this guy

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Speaker 3: and he was really in charge of the nation building.

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Speaker 3: And the first thing that this guy wanted to do

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Speaker 3: was anybody that was in the bath party was bad, okay.

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Speaker 3: And what I was screaming back then was, hey, everybody's

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Speaker 3: in the bath party. It's not like you got Republicans, Democrats,

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Speaker 3: and independents. There's only one show in town. So with

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Speaker 3: regard to nation building, that was a huge mistake.

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Speaker 4: That took a couple of.

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Speaker 3: Years for us to write and go out and find

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Speaker 3: those people who could run the systems of government that

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Speaker 3: we needed ran.

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Speaker 4: But then two even at the end of the.

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Speaker 3: Day, as we as we closed Iraq, and you know,

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Speaker 3: even in like four h five, I really saw the

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Speaker 3: writing on the wall that by doing one man, one

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Speaker 3: vote in the non representative type of government like Lebanon has,

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Speaker 3: they have a representative democracy. So if we do one man,

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Speaker 3: one vote and look over the country of Iraq, well,

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Speaker 3: guess what, you just handed the country to Iran and

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Speaker 3: the Shia, which is something the Iran Iraq Wars couldn't do.

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Speaker 3: But by us doing what we did and not being

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Speaker 3: sensitive to a comprehensive nation building strategy really alienated the

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Speaker 3: Sunnis and alienated the Kurds in the north.

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Speaker 1: You know, obviously, having spent time in you know, Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: let's say, you know, you saw you know, terrorists, you

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Speaker 1: know up close, you know, what should people know about

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Speaker 1: you know, the Taliban and and sort of what did

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Speaker 1: you see?

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Speaker 3: At least a full disclosure. I never step foot in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 3: I was I was in the invasion and I was

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Speaker 3: actually on the first Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha that

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Speaker 3: was chosen to do a MIC force. We hadn't done

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Speaker 3: a MIC force since Vietnam, and what that is is

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Speaker 3: we're going to put American troops in an adjacent country

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Speaker 3: to interdict the bad guys as they come and go

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Speaker 3: from what they perceived to be a safe area. So

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Speaker 3: that said, while I was in Pakistan, I'm very comfortable

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Speaker 3: saying that the terrorists and the bad guys, the talib

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Speaker 3: and the al Qaeda operators that we saw there was

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Speaker 3: there were so many of them, and there they're demeanors

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Speaker 3: were different because they thought that they were in a

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Speaker 3: safe zone.

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Speaker 4: But that said, you get down to.

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Speaker 3: The ideology of the people, and like some of the

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Speaker 3: hardest fighters and some of the most ruthless terrorists are

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Speaker 3: those that really believe that their mission and purpose is

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Speaker 3: grounded in Allah, is grounded in God.

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Speaker 4: So how do you fight that. The only thing you

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Speaker 4: can do is eliminate it.

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Speaker 3: But to answer your question, it's really unique to see

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Speaker 3: I consider myself a very godly person, but it's unique

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Speaker 3: to see a group of people justify the worst the

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Speaker 3: word at least, I'm talking the worst behavior you can

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Speaker 3: imagine with God wants me to do this, So that's.

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Speaker 1: It, Okay, So this is why I saw that on

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Speaker 1: the bio said the initial invasion into Afghanistan. So that's

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Speaker 1: where the disconnect came from where you were just laying out,

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Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick commercial break more with

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Speaker 1: Chief Michael Carmichael. Let's sit sears into check a VET.

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Speaker 1: So you had talked about how you know you're one

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Speaker 1: of the lucky ones who haven't suffered from PTSD. So

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Speaker 1: why didn't take on the mantle of check a Vet.

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Speaker 1: You know what sort of spurred that decision to want

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Speaker 1: to be a part of that or to start it.

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Speaker 3: The bottom line is I don't want to complain about

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Speaker 3: something without offering a solution. I was a founder and

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Speaker 3: a national secretary for a different nonprofit whose mission was

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Speaker 3: the same. They wanted to prevent veteran suicide, but their

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Speaker 3: approach was completely different. And it's an approach that you

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Speaker 3: see across the nonprofit landscape, and that's, hey, we're going

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Speaker 3: to prevent veteran suicide by taking them hunting or fishing

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Speaker 3: or to a concert.

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Speaker 4: And as a founding member, having been in the.

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Speaker 3: Room as the idea took shape, I was like, guys,

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Speaker 3: this is not it. There's eighteen million veterans. You can't

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Speaker 3: take them all hunting and fishing, even if you could.

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Speaker 3: Even if you could, suicide is a struggle that lasts

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Speaker 3: period of time, maybe the rest of their lives. So

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Speaker 3: going hunting or fishing it just doesn't match. It doesn't

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Speaker 3: accomplish our mission. So what we have to do is

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Speaker 3: three things, and we have to do those three things. Well,

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Speaker 3: the first thing, Lisa, is what you're doing right now.

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Speaker 3: You're helping check of raise awareness to veteran suicide. You

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Speaker 3: know your reputation of putting what matters out in the

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Speaker 3: news cycle. You're doing it right now. So raise awareness

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Speaker 3: of veteran suicide. What are the numbers? What are the problems?

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Speaker 3: Then two, we need to get Americans involved in veterans' lives.

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Speaker 3: Everybody's too busy. You know, veterans are their own worst enemy.

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Speaker 3: Where grumpy or whatever. Get past all that. These are

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Speaker 3: our nation's heroes. They deserve our effort and time. And

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Speaker 3: then three, once we get those people involved in veterans' lives,

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Speaker 3: we really need to provide some education on what the

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Speaker 3: protective and risk factors are to suicide. So as you

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Speaker 3: observe somebody's behavior, you can kind of take notes and

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Speaker 3: refer back, like, hey, you know this is what he's

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Speaker 3: doing or she's doing here is not good.

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Speaker 4: It's risky behavior. So those are the three.

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Speaker 3: Things, and that's really the approach and where I came

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Speaker 3: from and what led me to start checking out.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm grumpy sometimes, but I have no excuse, so

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Speaker 1: I haven't earned the ability to be to be grumpy.

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Speaker 1: You know, you had mentioned some of the risk factors.

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Speaker 1: You know, surely there are a lot of people listening

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Speaker 1: who have a loved one who has served and they

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Speaker 1: might be wondering, you know, what are some of the

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Speaker 1: risk factors. You know, what should they look for if

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Speaker 1: they might be concerned that, you know, maybe they're a

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Speaker 1: loved one who has returned having some challenges with that.

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Speaker 3: I tell you A big one and it's easy to

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Speaker 3: spot is isolation. My brothers and sisters, something will happen.

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Speaker 3: And I did it myself. I mean, my transition out

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Speaker 3: of the military was very difficult, so I isolated. I

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Speaker 3: had gone from having the confidence of my commanders and

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Speaker 3: my men to literally putting a dent in my bed.

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Speaker 3: So that isolation is a terrible risk factor. But other

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Speaker 3: more subtle things that you can look for are like

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Speaker 3: needless risk taking, like driving fast or being what other

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Speaker 3: people would consider crazy. And then you get into some

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Speaker 3: of the bedrock ones, which is untreated mental illness, untreated

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Speaker 3: alcohol or substance abuse. These as we talk about these

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Speaker 3: risk factors, really these are the problems that is suicide.

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Speaker 3: Suicide is a symptom, it's not the problem. If you

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Speaker 3: treat these risk factors in a responsible way, you'll never

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Speaker 3: have the suicide. So that's how I look at the

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Speaker 3: risk factors.

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Speaker 2: Do we have an idea?

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Speaker 1: I know that you know the twenty two a day

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Speaker 1: number has been put out there of you know, veteran

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Speaker 1: suicides per day.

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Speaker 2: Is that accurate?

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Speaker 1: My understanding is there's recently been some question that it

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Speaker 1: might be substantially higher, perhaps even double.

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Speaker 2: Do we have an accurate number?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 1: Do we know have they tried to get to the

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Speaker 1: bottom of that of just how prevalent this is in society?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the twenty two a day has really been in

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Speaker 3: the in the narrative since I think about twenty seventeen

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Speaker 3: or eighteen when according to the VA, that was the number.

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Speaker 3: So but this year as their numbers report for back

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty, if you look at the VA's numbers,

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Speaker 3: it's sixteen point eight veteran suicides per day, so called

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Speaker 3: that seventeen but AWP, the American Warrior Partnership received a

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Speaker 3: grant from Bristol Myers Squib that was like three point

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Speaker 3: five million, and they partnered with Duke and then they

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Speaker 3: partnered with the University of Alabama and they really got

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Speaker 3: after looking and trying to define the problem, and it

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Speaker 3: was it was really thoughtful because they started in the

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Speaker 3: small towns and then the cities and the counties, and

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Speaker 3: then across the states. And one of the states that

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Speaker 3: they did was Montana, who at the time was the

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Speaker 3: worst state in the nation for suicide. But what they

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Speaker 3: came up with was the VA is under reporting the

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Speaker 3: suicides by a factor of two point four times.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it is more than double.

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Speaker 3: But if you look into the methodology of Operation Deep Dive,

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Speaker 3: which is what I'm talking about, they had a lot

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Speaker 3: of struggles trying to get inform and in fact they

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Speaker 3: had to exclude some of the worst groups for suicide

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Speaker 3: because the information simply wasn't there. So I would say

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Speaker 3: it's worse than two point four times the reported numbers.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's a sad reflection of the VA. If they're

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Speaker 1: intentionally under reporting that. I assume it's because it maybe

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Speaker 1: implicates them and perhaps not giving the services that we

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Speaker 1: should be giving to veterans. What is the sort of

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Speaker 1: the collective experience in dealing with the VA.

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Speaker 4: I have a good relationship with the VA.

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Speaker 3: That said, I think that if you do an amazing

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Speaker 3: job for ten people, maybe one of them will tell

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Speaker 3: some of their friends that you did an amazing job.

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Speaker 3: But if you do a crappy job for one person,

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Speaker 3: they're going to tell everybody they know that you did

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Speaker 3: a crappy job. So in the context of the VA,

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't want that job. And I know that they

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Speaker 3: do good, but the times where they're not doing good,

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Speaker 3: it's amplified so loud that you can't hear the good

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Speaker 3: past that. Yeah, I really cringe when I get into

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Speaker 3: the subject of the manipulation of data.

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Speaker 4: I've become a nerd.

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Speaker 3: I went from a barrel chested freedom fighter who was

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Speaker 3: taking care of business overseas to burying my nose in

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Speaker 3: appendixes and data spreadsheets and all that stuff. You just

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Speaker 3: there's no other way to look at it other than

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Speaker 3: intentional data manipulation. And I throw my hands up and

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Speaker 3: think I wouldn't want to be in charge of this mission.

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Speaker 3: But if I was, my God, I'm going to do

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Speaker 3: accurate reporting so that the people who are holding me

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Speaker 3: accountable at least know how bad the problem is. Don't

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Speaker 3: twist it, report it own it.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, we've seen, especially in the age of COVID, a

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Speaker 1: lot of government manipulation when it comes to data. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's if you're looking for truth, you're you're not going

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Speaker 1: to get it from from government, that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: Do we know you know?

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously a twenty year war is substantial. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've got a lot of people having done multiple deployments,

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Speaker 1: such as yourself, you know, in various arenas. You talked

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Speaker 1: about your experience in Iraq. Do we have data? I mean,

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Speaker 1: do we have information about the toll that that takes

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Speaker 1: on one's body? I mean, have there been other points

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Speaker 1: in history where we have sent people, you know, back

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Speaker 1: that many times to these different arenas in such a

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Speaker 1: you know, period of time.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely not. This was unique.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look look back to the years World War One,

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Speaker 3: World War two, Korea, I think Korea to a lesser extent,

398
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Speaker 3: but the Great Wars, it was Hey, go over there

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Speaker 3: and win. You know, I think that there was a

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Speaker 3: cutoff of a year, maybe a couple of years. But

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Speaker 3: go over there, win and then you can come home.

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Speaker 3: The idea of this slow grind campaign and then the

403
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Speaker 3: toll that that takes one because think about putting yourself

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Speaker 3: on the airplane going home like whoo, we made it.

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Speaker 3: But then as soon as you land they're talking about

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Speaker 3: getting ready for the next trip. That's a pretty tough

407
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Speaker 3: psychological bag to carry around. So, yeah, there's never been

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Speaker 3: anything like it, and I hope that we never do

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Speaker 3: that again to our soldiers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, mean, it's almost like you never get your footing

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Speaker 1: right because if you're going home and then immediately being

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Speaker 1: sent back, you just you never have time to reconnect

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Speaker 1: with loved ones. I can't imagine how hard that would

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Speaker 1: be just to be, you know, continuously away from the

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Speaker 1: people you love that many times.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the footing it at home is terrible. If commanders

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Speaker 3: are thoughtful about deployments and they send the same troops

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Speaker 3: back to the same locations over and over again, which

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Speaker 3: pretty much nobody he did. But in second Battalion, fists,

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Speaker 3: special Forces groups, you know, commanders like Colonel Chris Miller.

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Speaker 3: He did this, and because we kept going back to

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Speaker 3: the same place, there was nobody in the country who

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Speaker 3: was smarter on our areas than we were, because we

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Speaker 3: had to established institutional knowledge on the bad guys, the

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Speaker 3: good guys, the terrain and the situation.

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Speaker 4: So it's really a double edged sword.

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Speaker 3: But to get to the point, yeah, it's the most

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Speaker 3: difficult on the families.

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Speaker 4: And you know, it's a terrible thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, those of us who haven't served

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Speaker 1: have no idea what that's like to be away from family,

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Speaker 1: you know that much, right, and to be that far

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Speaker 1: away from family in the sense of, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: at a totally different part of the world. You're isolated.

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Speaker 1: You know, the ability to communicate communicates probably lacking. You

436
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Speaker 1: know how how challenging is that for our men and

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Speaker 1: women and and for you to to you know, to

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Speaker 1: be gone that many times from the people you love.

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Speaker 4: It's tough.

440
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 3: But I mean not only being gone. I think of

441
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: the culture shock of this. You know, when desert storm

442
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 3: broke out the ground war started. I was a college

443
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: student at Montana State University living in Montana, Altito, Tigh.

444
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 4: It's cold.

445
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 3: Hardly anybody there, So think about the culture shock to

446
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 3: go from there to be uprooted and land in Saudi

447
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 3: Arabia where it's just so hot you can't do anything.

448
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 4: There's all the you know.

449
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 3: The the feeling of war and all of that stuff.

450
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 3: The culture shock was tremendous, It really was. So to

451
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 3: try to get your footing anywhere would be tough with

452
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 3: that scenario.

453
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 4: But to keep going and keep going. I think that

454
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 4: as soon as they decide to.

455
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 3: Send this person back, they're already off balance before they

456
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 3: get there.

457
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 4: You know.

458
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: I try to put my you know, in these conversations

459
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: I have with you know, folks like you.

460
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 2: I try to.

461
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: It's just it's hard to even imagine being, you know,

462
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: so young with that kind of responsibility in front of you.

463
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: I just I can't. You know, I was an idiot

464
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 2: when I was young.

465
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 1: I mean I'm still an idiot sometimes, but you know,

466
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: I definitely didn't have, you know, just the level of

467
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: responsibility that you had in your life at a young age.

468
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: It just can't.

469
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to wrap your head around, to

470
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: be honest, if for someone that's not been in your shoes.

471
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 3: I don't think somebody who wasn't in those shoes, can

472
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 3: even fathom it. Think about standing in front of a

473
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 3: crowd of people who were, you know, maybe throwing rocks

474
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 3: or screaming at you, and you're standing there as an

475
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 3: American soldier with your gear on and a loaded gun

476
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 3: in your hand, and to have the maturity to not

477
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 3: defend yourself up until the very last moment. That's not

478
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: a natural thing, and the responsibility of that is ginormous.

479
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's very tough and hard to understand, very.

480
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: Much so, but I appreciate you sharing that with us,

481
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: you know, because it does help us get a better

482
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: insight into some of the things that you know, you

483
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 1: guys go through quick break stay with us, what at

484
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: all that time in the military just teach you about life,

485
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: Like what if you kind of have to reflect back

486
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: on twenty two years and the Special Forces, what are

487
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:35,959
Speaker 1: your takeaways from that?

488
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 4: As I talk.

489
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: About or consider my deployments, I think it's a fair

490
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 3: caveat to say I wasn't sent to a lot of

491
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 3: nice places. I was send to the armpits of the

492
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 3: world that you know, had tremendous conflict. But even that said,

493
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 3: I love the people. I mean, you think about the

494
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 3: Muslim brothers that I have to this day because I

495
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 3: fought alongside of them in their land. It's really given

496
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 3: me a whole different level of open mindedness. Like I

497
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 3: talked about Afghanistan, Hey, we got to get out. It's

498
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 3: not fair for us to impose our morals and something

499
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 3: on a land that's not ours. But that maturity or

500
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,959
Speaker 3: you know, the idea if somebody's racist, if you wanted

501
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: to give them a prescription to not be racist, send

502
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: them around the world so that they can walk a

503
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 3: mile in other people's shoes and that insight that they'll

504
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: get that that worldly view is.

505
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 4: It's truly amazing.

506
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: What's been your experience.

507
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: And working with other vets with check a vet, you

508
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: know sort of kind of what's that been like for

509
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: you to be able to obviously meet a ton of

510
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: people who also have similar experiences you and just to

511
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: try to help them going through you know, a tough time, right?

512
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: What's that been like?

513
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 4: Lisa?

514
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 3: I say that I adopt veterans all the time who

515
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: were in distress, and I do all I can for

516
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 3: them from the other end of the phone. But these

517
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 3: are men and women who really don't communicate with anybody

518
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 3: else I might be like the straw of the outside

519
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 3: world that they look through, but veterans, so many veterans

520
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: are just so broken. I say, we're our own worst enemy.

521
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 3: We need to be open to receiving help when somebody

522
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 3: offers it.

523
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 4: Difficult people. So mostly the engagement that Chekov has with

524
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 4: veterans is people who are struggling seem to, you know,

525
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 4: migrate to us, and that's perfect. You know.

526
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 3: I want those people to have hope. I want those

527
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 3: people to have an understanding, but I also want those

528
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 3: men and women to be more open to people wanting

529
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 3: to be involved in their lives and to be less

530
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 3: of a knucklehead, or to be less stubborn, or to

531
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: be more you know, patient, you know, with with other people.

532
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 3: So that I don't have to tell anybody who's dealt

533
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: with veterans, you know, combat veterans, that you really have

534
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 3: to be patient and be understanding because they deserve it.

535
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 4: You know, they deserve it. And yeah, they are difficult,

536
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 4: but let's deal with it because they do deserve it.

537
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: Now, I imagine part of the challenge for people who

538
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 1: are are struggling with even just wanting to live is

539
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: you know, obviously this is going to air a Memorial Day.

540
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how hard it has to be to

541
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: be so closely tight with you know, your brothers and

542
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: sisters in the uniform, and to lose them, you know,

543
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: to know that you're going home to your family, but

544
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: your friend is not. You know how big of a

545
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: challenge is that for our military men and women to

546
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: come home and knowing that a lot of your friends

547
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: didn't have that same opportunity.

548
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: That's called survivor's remorse, and really that is one of

549
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 3: the scariest forms or you know, negative motivations for a

550
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 3: veteran to end their life by suicide. In fact, if

551
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 3: you go to our YouTube channel Chekov at three sixty

552
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 3: five and watch one of twenty two, that's exactly what's

553
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 3: going after and that's that's a veteran who lost his

554
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 3: battle buddy overseas. So that I don't think that that's

555
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: something you could ever rationalize. But if I could say

556
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 3: one thing to the people that struggle with that, it

557
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 3: would be don't you think your friend would want you

558
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 3: to be happy? Don't you think your friend would want

559
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: you to do well and be a good person. Look

560
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 3: beyond their sacrifice, it's a volunteer service. They volunteered for it.

561
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that they deserved it, but gosh, I

562
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: would want all of my comrades, my brothers and sisters. Sure,

563
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 3: keep a memory of me, but move on, live your life,

564
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 3: be happy, could be a productive member of society.

565
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 4: You deserve it.

566
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: Before we go, what do you think makes check a

567
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: VETTE different than you know, maybe some other veterans organizations LEASA.

568
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 4: Our message is suicide is preventable.

569
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 3: Don't treat suicide like it's the problem, because really it's not.

570
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 4: Suicide is a symptom of the problem.

571
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,479
Speaker 3: Find out what is stressing your veteran out, you know,

572
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 3: be it. Is it a financial problem, is it a

573
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 3: struggle with something, whatever it is, find that stressor that

574
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 3: could lead somebody down the path of wanting to hurt

575
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 3: themselves and treat that and then guess what, there won't

576
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 3: be a suicide.

577
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 4: So that's one and then two.

578
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: Be meaningfully and routinely involved in your veterans' lives.

579
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 4: They deserve it, they need it.

580
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 3: You know, they spent their whole careers as a member

581
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 3: of a team. But as they get out now the

582
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: anow they're just an isolated individual.

583
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 4: Get them back on a team, Get them back on

584
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 4: your team.

585
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: Where can people go to learn more about checkovet or

586
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: to help out.

587
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 4: Please go to check a ed dot org and learn.

588
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 4: You know, come with open mind.

589
00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 3: And from the very beginning my vernacular was I don't

590
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 3: really care about anything other than people wanting to be

591
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 3: involved in their veterans' lives. But my learned one of

592
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 3: my hardest lessons is you can't raise awareness if you

593
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 3: don't have the resources to do it. Guess what, Facebook

594
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 3: ain't going to let you boost a post for nothing,

595
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 3: even no matter how good your causes. So I think

596
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 3: last month we hit over ten thousand people across their

597
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 3: social media.

598
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:31,959
Speaker 4: But we need help.

599
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 3: Let's take ten thousand and turn it into one hundred,

600
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: then a million, and then one hundred million. We need

601
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 3: resources to do that, and at checkovet dot org there's

602
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 3: a contribute button, And I really hope that if people

603
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 3: believe in what we're trying to do and how we're

604
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 3: trying to do it, give us a hand because it's

605
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 3: only going to make us better, stronger, and faster.

606
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: Well, Chief Carmarcle, I appreciate you taking the time to

607
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: just share your story and to be so honest and

608
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: open about you know your experiences, and you know thank

609
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 1: you for helping your fellow vets, and most importantly, thank

610
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: you for your service.

611
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 4: Sir Lisa, thank you for paying your taxes. I appreciate your.

612
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 3: Thanks to me, but I'm sure I spent all of

613
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: your tax money on bombs and bullets.

614
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 4: But I appreciate you.

615
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 3: Thank you for being a hero in my mind and

616
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,919
Speaker 3: getting this message out there. And anytime you want me back,

617
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 3: if I'm welcome, I'll be there with Belze.

618
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: Thank you, sir. I appreciate your time.

619
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 4: Yes, ma'am, thank you.

620
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: That was Chief Michael Carmichael, founder and president of check

621
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: a Vet. Appreciate his service and just taking the time

622
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 1: to join the show. It's always interesting and I think

623
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: important to talk to people about their experiences because obviously

624
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: for those of us who did not serve, it's hard

625
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 1: to really know what these folks have been through unless

626
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: you take the time to have these conversations. And so

627
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: that's always my intent and my purpose in talking to

628
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: people who have served, is just to really try to

629
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: get the best understanding I can of what they've been through,

630
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: so that we just have a better understanding. So I

631
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: appreciate you at home for listening every Monday and Thursday,

632
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: but of course you can listen throughout the week. I

633
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: want to thank John Cassio and my producer for putting

634
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: the show together. Apologies for my voice. I'm still a

635
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 1: little bit sick, so that's what I sound like. Please

636
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: leave us a review, give us a rating on Apple Podcast.

637
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: Until next time,