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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Some one is watching Polly Nichols. He's skilled at

2
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Speaker 1: keeping his distance and at remaining just out of sight.

3
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Speaker 1: He follows her dog darkening streets. He knows which shops

4
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Speaker 1: or pubs she enters. He knows what work she does,

5
00:00:48,276 --> 00:00:51,516
Speaker 1: and when she leaves to return to her lodgings. He

6
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Speaker 1: knows where she lives, and most importantly, he knows who

7
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Speaker 1: she's been living with. He inquires about her in the neighborhood,

8
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Speaker 1: but he does so subtly, in a way that won't

9
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Speaker 1: raise any alarm, that won't give away his presence. I'm

10
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Speaker 1: Hallie ribbin Holt. You're listening to Bad Women. The Ripper retold,

11
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Speaker 1: a series about the real lives of the women killed

12
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Speaker 1: by Jack the Ripper and how we got their stories

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Speaker 1: so wrong. One side, money plenty, and friends too by

14
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Speaker 1: the score. Then fortune smiled upon me. Now one pass

15
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Speaker 1: my time anney, and not to have her seems to loney.

16
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Speaker 1: I'm com free. London's Fleet Street and its network and

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Speaker 1: narrow tributaries, was a hive of activity. The so called

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Speaker 1: Street of Ink was home to authors, printers, newspapermen and booksellers,

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Speaker 1: every profession dependent upon the written word. Charles Dickens himself

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Speaker 1: frequented these byways, first working as a shoeshiner and then

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Speaker 1: scribbling away in nearby rooms in workshops. All along that thoroughfare,

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Speaker 1: cylinders turned, belts moved, gears clicked, and wood as type

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Speaker 1: and ink pressed against paper. It's here that Edward Walker

24
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Speaker 1: plied his trade as a blacksmith. He fashioned metal parts

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Speaker 1: for the printing presses. He and his wife, Caroline also

26
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Speaker 1: lived nearby, amid the warren of crumbling old buildings with

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Speaker 1: leaking roofs and rotting floors. In their cramped and ramshackle dwelling,

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Speaker 1: on August twenty sixth, eighteen forty five, they welcomed a daughter, Polly.

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Speaker 1: The printing presses of Fleet Street offered Polly, her parents,

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Speaker 1: and her two brothers a humble yet steady existence. Edward's

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Speaker 1: wages as a blacksmith were constant but low. As a

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Speaker 1: skilled tradesman whose income was better than that of a

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Speaker 1: bricklayer or a dock worker, one might think the family

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Speaker 1: would have enjoyed a comfortable life. Instead, they would have

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Speaker 1: inhabited no more than two or three rooms, each about

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Speaker 1: eight by ten feet in size. They would have cooked

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Speaker 1: on a fire in their hearth and relieved themselves in

38
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Speaker 1: a chamber pot in the corner of the room. It

39
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Speaker 1: was not uncommon for the entire family to share a

40
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Speaker 1: single bed. Privacy was almost unheard of. Nevertheless, Edward put

41
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Speaker 1: a few pennies aside to send his children to school.

42
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Speaker 1: Schooling would not be compulsory until eighteen seventy six, and

43
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Speaker 1: Polly was unusually literate. We're all working class girl. This

44
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Speaker 1: was one of the few advantages conferred by proximity to

45
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Speaker 1: Fleet Street. Many dwellings here black plumbing, so residents scooped

46
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Speaker 1: up dirty, stagnant water from puddles for cooking and cleaning.

47
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Speaker 1: Block chimneys and poor ventilation trapped heavy sulfur at coal

48
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Speaker 1: smoke and rooms, which contributed to a host of respiratory illnesses.

49
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Speaker 1: Diseases such as bronchitis, dysentery, cholera, and typhus were ripe,

50
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Speaker 1: especially in the warmer months, when the stench also became unbearable.

51
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Speaker 1: Polly was not yet seven years old when her mother

52
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Speaker 1: began to display the symptoms of what appeared to be flu.

53
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Speaker 1: It began with a cough, which eventually grew worse, and

54
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Speaker 1: as the illness settled in her lungs. Her dreadful racking

55
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Speaker 1: became blood laced. At this time, tuberculosis went by the

56
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Speaker 1: name of consumption. The sufferer was simply assumed by the

57
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Speaker 1: disease and wasted away its bacterial infection that attacks the

58
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Speaker 1: lungs and is spread by coughs and sneezes. Antibiotics hadn't

59
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Speaker 1: yet been invented, and malnutrition and physical exhaustion, which were

60
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Speaker 1: part of working class life, enabled the disease to take

61
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Speaker 1: hold with ease. Consumption was a death sentence, and it

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Speaker 1: quickly claimed Polly's mother. At this time, people didn't entirely

63
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Speaker 1: understand how tuberculosis spread, and so women who usually nursed

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Speaker 1: the ill often caught it and passed it on within

65
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Speaker 1: their families. This was almost certainly how Polly's youngest brother

66
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Speaker 1: contracted the disease. He quickly followed his mother to the grave,

67
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Speaker 1: although she was still a child herself. The loss of

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Speaker 1: her mother propelled Polly into a position of responsibility within

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Speaker 1: what was now a household of three. Every Victorian household

70
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Speaker 1: needed a woman to cook and clean. Men who were

71
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Speaker 1: expected to go out and earn a wage did not

72
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Speaker 1: lander the baked the bread at the same time, Polly

73
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Speaker 1: found herself in an unusually fortunate position. Unlike most working

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Speaker 1: class households, her family was now small, and once her

75
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Speaker 1: elder brother was old enough to enter the workplace, there

76
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Speaker 1: were two male earners and only three mouths to feed.

77
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Speaker 1: This situation allowed Polly to continue her schooling into her

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Speaker 1: early teens. It also helped to cement a strong bond

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Speaker 1: between Polly and her father, one which would last until

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Speaker 1: her murder. Living a short walk away from Polly's home

81
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Speaker 1: was a man with a broad, sunny face and light hair.

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Speaker 1: We know nothing about their courtship, but we do know

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Speaker 1: that just before Christmas eighteen sixty three, William Nichols proposed

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Speaker 1: to the blacksmith's daughter. They were married a month later

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Speaker 1: at Saint Bride's Church. Planned parenthood did not exist for

86
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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century working classes. Married couples didn't get to

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Speaker 1: choose when they wanted to start a family. The making

88
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Speaker 1: of that family began on the wedding night. Whether a

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Speaker 1: couple was as comfortable as Queen Victoria and Prince Albert

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Speaker 1: or penniless. A woman's entire duty in life was to

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Speaker 1: marry and then to make and look after children. So

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Speaker 1: life as a wife and mother began for Polly immediately.

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Speaker 1: She bore her first baby just under eleven months after

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Speaker 1: her wedding. Unfortunately, this child died after a year and

95
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Speaker 1: nine months, but other pregnancies and berths followed at regular intervals.

96
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Speaker 1: Each child stretched William's earnings further. The expanding Nichols family

97
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Speaker 1: had been sharing a home with Polly's father and brother

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Speaker 1: due to a housing shortage. The combined incomes of three

99
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Speaker 1: male wage earners was still not enough to pay the

100
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Speaker 1: rent on spacious, clean family accommodation. Instead, they were forced

101
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Speaker 1: to make do with the usual cramped, noisy, and unhealthy

102
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Speaker 1: living quarters. But then William and Polly learned of a

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Speaker 1: new housing initiative. It looked as if this might solve

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Speaker 1: all of their problems. In eighteen sixty two, the American

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Speaker 1: expat philanthropist in financier George Peabody had wished to give

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Speaker 1: something back to the people of his adopted city of London.

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Speaker 1: He chose to gift the princely sum of five hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand pounds to London's poor and needy, nearly five hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars relative to the wages of today, my object

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Speaker 1: being to ameliorate the condition of the poor and needy

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Speaker 1: of this great metropolis, and to promote their comfort and happiness.

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Speaker 1: Peabody was himself from humble beginnings in Massachusetts, but by

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Speaker 1: the end of his life he had amassed a vast fortune.

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Speaker 1: With no obvious air, he decided to erect apartment buildings

115
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Speaker 1: all over London. But Peabody's gift to London's working classes

116
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Speaker 1: came with strings attached. He'd only housed the poor who

117
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Speaker 1: displayed moral character and good conduct as a member of society. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: Peabody's gift was only for the worthy poor, those whom

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Speaker 1: he judged to lead a morally upright life. Peabody was

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Speaker 1: very keen, and his trustees were very keen to make

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Speaker 1: sure that you didn't attract people who seemed to want

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Speaker 1: something for nothing. Historian Sarah Wise is an authority on

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century social history and on how the Victorians classified

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Speaker 1: some poor people as more deserving than others, people who

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Speaker 1: could show that they were sober and quiet and kept

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Speaker 1: themselves of themselves, that they understood the importance of cleanliness.

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Speaker 1: The people they didn't want were those who they considered

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Speaker 1: to be loafers, people who had no intention of earning

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Speaker 1: their own living for themselves, or of even trying to

130
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Speaker 1: do so. Habitual drunkards were disqualified, as was anyone who

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Speaker 1: had been entangled with the law. Having more and four

132
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Speaker 1: children was frowned upon. And while you had to be

133
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Speaker 1: able to afford the rent at the Peabody buildings, you

134
00:10:15,236 --> 00:10:19,076
Speaker 1: also couldn't have too great of an income. Entry requirements

135
00:10:19,076 --> 00:10:23,556
Speaker 1: were narrow and the admissions process rigorous. The trustees would

136
00:10:23,556 --> 00:10:25,876
Speaker 1: have called at the Nichols home, where they would have

137
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Speaker 1: found William, Polly and their three children dressed in their

138
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Speaker 1: Sunday best, the rooms swept and tidy. There would have

139
00:10:33,596 --> 00:10:37,476
Speaker 1: been no indication of low morals or alcoholism, and William's

140
00:10:37,556 --> 00:10:40,996
Speaker 1: employer would have endorsed him as an industrious family man.

141
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Speaker 1: The Nichols application was successful, and the family took up

142
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Speaker 1: residence in an apartment or flat at number three Stamford Street.

143
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Speaker 1: They now had four rooms all to themselves and access

144
00:10:53,596 --> 00:10:57,716
Speaker 1: to all kinds of modern conveniences, including laundry facilities, a

145
00:10:57,836 --> 00:11:02,076
Speaker 1: stove to cook on, and a working indoor toilet in

146
00:11:02,156 --> 00:11:05,516
Speaker 1: the basement or the ground floors. You had the baths,

147
00:11:05,516 --> 00:11:08,476
Speaker 1: which was a real step forward, so you could have

148
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Speaker 1: any amounts of baths that you wanted totally for free.

149
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Speaker 1: That was all included in your rents. Unfortunately, these were

150
00:11:16,556 --> 00:11:19,476
Speaker 1: cold water bath facilities, but that would have been seen

151
00:11:19,476 --> 00:11:22,636
Speaker 1: as absolute luxury because there was always that struggle to

152
00:11:22,716 --> 00:11:25,836
Speaker 1: obtain good clean water in which to do anything, let

153
00:11:25,876 --> 00:11:28,956
Speaker 1: alone to wash on a daily basis. There were other

154
00:11:28,996 --> 00:11:32,516
Speaker 1: innovations at these buildings too, things like rubbish shoots to

155
00:11:32,596 --> 00:11:35,676
Speaker 1: keep trash away from the living quarters. So it really

156
00:11:35,756 --> 00:11:38,436
Speaker 1: was kind of at the forefront of what the Victorians

157
00:11:38,436 --> 00:11:42,356
Speaker 1: called sanitary science. Everything possible was built in to make

158
00:11:42,436 --> 00:11:46,036
Speaker 1: sure that the residents could keep themselves and the block

159
00:11:46,116 --> 00:11:49,716
Speaker 1: as clean as possible. Communal spaces were to be kept immaculate,

160
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Speaker 1: Corridors and steps were to be swept every day and

161
00:11:52,916 --> 00:11:56,796
Speaker 1: washed every Saturday. There was a perceived connection between moral

162
00:11:56,836 --> 00:12:01,476
Speaker 1: purity and physical cleanliness. It was believed that peabodies residents,

163
00:12:01,516 --> 00:12:05,316
Speaker 1: inspired by their own well scrubbed bodies and fresh smelling clothes,

164
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Speaker 1: would wish to maintain their surroundings and keep them free

165
00:12:08,556 --> 00:12:13,676
Speaker 1: of filth. William and Polly surely felt a sense of

166
00:12:13,836 --> 00:12:16,996
Speaker 1: pride they were moving up in the world. Their new

167
00:12:16,996 --> 00:12:21,636
Speaker 1: apartment marked a contrast with their previous and wretched living conditions.

168
00:12:22,156 --> 00:12:27,636
Speaker 1: The private sector allowed very poor people to make their

169
00:12:27,676 --> 00:12:30,556
Speaker 1: living in a wide range of ways which would be

170
00:12:30,596 --> 00:12:35,476
Speaker 1: absolutely unthinkable in any philanthropic block. So all sorts of

171
00:12:35,596 --> 00:12:40,276
Speaker 1: really smelly, unpleasant industries, such as chopping up bits of

172
00:12:40,316 --> 00:12:43,436
Speaker 1: old horse to make cats meat, all sorts of fish smoking,

173
00:12:43,556 --> 00:12:47,356
Speaker 1: actually very high skilled artisan trads that involved banging and

174
00:12:47,476 --> 00:12:52,556
Speaker 1: hammering and varnishes and polishes and flames or machinery. Peabody

175
00:12:52,596 --> 00:12:57,516
Speaker 1: housing offered the Nichols family peace, quiet and cleanliness, but

176
00:12:57,596 --> 00:13:00,916
Speaker 1: there were also strict rules that the worthy poor had

177
00:13:00,956 --> 00:13:03,756
Speaker 1: to follow. You had to agree to either have been

178
00:13:03,876 --> 00:13:07,116
Speaker 1: vaccinated against smallpox or that you were going to be

179
00:13:07,676 --> 00:13:10,636
Speaker 1: No hanging out of your laundry your own room. Children

180
00:13:10,676 --> 00:13:14,236
Speaker 1: can't play on the stairs or corridors. No dogs, no lodgers,

181
00:13:14,316 --> 00:13:20,876
Speaker 1: no trading, no intemperance or disorderly behavior. Intemperance meant indulgence

182
00:13:20,916 --> 00:13:24,276
Speaker 1: in alcohol. Apparently that was immediate notice to quit. The

183
00:13:24,356 --> 00:13:27,556
Speaker 1: gas goes off at eleven PM, and you can't put

184
00:13:27,636 --> 00:13:30,956
Speaker 1: wall paper or any pictures up in your home. But

185
00:13:30,996 --> 00:13:34,236
Speaker 1: the Peabody buildings didn't suit everyone. There was a real

186
00:13:34,356 --> 00:13:38,196
Speaker 1: love of color and music and joy amongst every section

187
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Speaker 1: of the working class, and many of them may have

188
00:13:41,076 --> 00:13:45,036
Speaker 1: just psychologically thought, no, I can't hack this. Those who

189
00:13:45,156 --> 00:13:48,276
Speaker 1: could hack it were said to quickly acquire decent habits.

190
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Speaker 1: People like to be as good as their neighbors, remarked

191
00:13:52,276 --> 00:13:56,356
Speaker 1: the superintendent of Polly and William's building, and although the

192
00:13:56,436 --> 00:13:59,836
Speaker 1: move to the Peabody buildings significantly improved the Nichols family's

193
00:13:59,916 --> 00:14:03,636
Speaker 1: quality of life, William's salary was stretched further by the

194
00:14:03,716 --> 00:14:07,476
Speaker 1: arrival of a fourth child. This financial strain meant that

195
00:14:07,556 --> 00:14:11,116
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy seven the family was forced to downsize

196
00:14:11,156 --> 00:14:15,276
Speaker 1: and exchange their four room apartment for a three room one.

197
00:14:15,796 --> 00:14:18,316
Speaker 1: Their new abode was next door to a woman named

198
00:14:18,396 --> 00:14:22,596
Speaker 1: Rosetta Walls. Rosetta had married a ship's cook. He spent

199
00:14:22,676 --> 00:14:25,316
Speaker 1: more time at sea than with Rosetta, and the pair

200
00:14:25,356 --> 00:14:29,116
Speaker 1: had drifted apart. She earned an income as a charwoman

201
00:14:29,236 --> 00:14:32,516
Speaker 1: or a cleaning lady, and by also picking up odd jobs.

202
00:14:33,436 --> 00:14:35,836
Speaker 1: In eighteen seventy eight, when Polly gave birth to a

203
00:14:35,916 --> 00:14:40,556
Speaker 1: fifth child, a son, Rosetta stepped into a sister. The

204
00:14:40,636 --> 00:14:44,756
Speaker 1: two households shared walls, a toilet, and a sink. The

205
00:14:44,876 --> 00:14:48,396
Speaker 1: doors were always open, which fostered a sense of intimacy

206
00:14:48,436 --> 00:14:53,396
Speaker 1: between the two families. We cannot know exactly when or

207
00:14:53,476 --> 00:14:57,796
Speaker 1: why the arguments between Polly and William began. Perhaps the

208
00:14:57,956 --> 00:15:02,316
Speaker 1: new closer quarters, larger family, and greater financial pressures all

209
00:15:02,396 --> 00:15:06,436
Speaker 1: played a role. William Nichols asserted that his wife suddenly

210
00:15:06,436 --> 00:15:10,156
Speaker 1: began drinking excessively and that this was the source of

211
00:15:10,196 --> 00:15:17,076
Speaker 1: their strife. Polly's father, Edward, would offer another explanation. William

212
00:15:17,156 --> 00:15:22,316
Speaker 1: Nichols had begun an affair with Rosetta Walls. Perhaps Polly

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Speaker 1: was exhausted and suffering from postnatal depression. Perhaps she was

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Speaker 1: jealous of Rosetta Walls. Perhaps both were true, and she

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Speaker 1: just turned to alcohol to lighten these burdens. We cannot know,

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Speaker 1: But on March twenty ninth, eighteen eighty, Polly was finally

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00:15:38,436 --> 00:15:42,116
Speaker 1: tired of arguing. She handed her children over to their

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Speaker 1: father and walked through the gates of the Peabody Buildings,

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Speaker 1: never to return. Everything about Polly's life was about to change.

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Speaker 1: She could not begin to imagine what was coming. The

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00:16:03,036 --> 00:16:11,676
Speaker 1: Ripper retold will be back in a moment. Polly's decision

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Speaker 1: to walk out on her husband in eighteen eighty, possibly

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Speaker 1: because he was seeing another woman, was an unusual one.

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Speaker 1: Most of the time, memen leave if they're being beaten

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Speaker 1: to a pulp Historian Ginger Frost is witty and straight

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00:16:25,876 --> 00:16:30,556
Speaker 1: talking and an expert on Victorian family life. Sometimes they

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00:16:30,556 --> 00:16:32,716
Speaker 1: will leave if he's not providing. There really is no

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00:16:32,796 --> 00:16:35,676
Speaker 1: reason to stay. If he's a poor provider, or he's

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00:16:35,756 --> 00:16:38,236
Speaker 1: drunk all the time, or he gambles all the money away.

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Speaker 1: If you're not being provided for, that's what the man

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00:16:40,396 --> 00:16:42,236
Speaker 1: brings to the table. If he can't bring that, there's

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Speaker 1: no reason to stay. Walking out on your children, as

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00:16:45,276 --> 00:16:49,076
Speaker 1: Polly did, is even less common. That is very rare.

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Speaker 1: Most women don't want to leave their children. They just stay.

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Speaker 1: They put up with it. That's the main response of women.

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00:16:54,916 --> 00:16:57,156
Speaker 1: It's the men who usually leave. So it is a

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00:16:57,156 --> 00:16:59,516
Speaker 1: bit unusual for a wife to walk out, especially if

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Speaker 1: they have children together. We discussed what might have been

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00:17:02,076 --> 00:17:05,516
Speaker 1: behind Polly's decision to leave, including the credibility of William

240
00:17:05,556 --> 00:17:08,516
Speaker 1: nichols claim that his wife was an alcoholic. There are

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00:17:08,596 --> 00:17:11,996
Speaker 1: lots of nons here. I think if he's right now,

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00:17:12,236 --> 00:17:13,996
Speaker 1: this is self serving, So you never know if what

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00:17:13,996 --> 00:17:16,196
Speaker 1: he's saying is true. It could be that she was

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00:17:16,276 --> 00:17:19,756
Speaker 1: drinking and that he removed all the drink and wouldn't

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00:17:19,836 --> 00:17:23,036
Speaker 1: let her have it, and so she had classic alcoholism, right,

246
00:17:23,036 --> 00:17:26,796
Speaker 1: you start trading everything you care about for the drug choice,

247
00:17:27,236 --> 00:17:29,596
Speaker 1: and so that could have happened, but there's no way

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00:17:29,596 --> 00:17:31,956
Speaker 1: to know. I find those kinds of arguments by husbands

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00:17:32,156 --> 00:17:34,236
Speaker 1: so self serving. I have trouble believing them, but I

250
00:17:34,236 --> 00:17:38,156
Speaker 1: guess sometimes they can't be true. I think it's possible,

251
00:17:38,236 --> 00:17:40,516
Speaker 1: but I think then you have to take into account

252
00:17:40,596 --> 00:17:44,156
Speaker 1: her father's side of the story, which is she and

253
00:17:44,196 --> 00:17:47,436
Speaker 1: her husband were arguing and it was because he was

254
00:17:47,756 --> 00:17:51,516
Speaker 1: carrying on with the woman next door, but she left.

255
00:17:51,716 --> 00:17:53,796
Speaker 1: They could both be true. He could have been carrying

256
00:17:53,796 --> 00:17:55,796
Speaker 1: on and she took to drink because of that. I

257
00:17:55,836 --> 00:17:59,716
Speaker 1: think this may remain a mystery. I don't think we're

258
00:17:59,716 --> 00:18:01,796
Speaker 1: ever really going to get to the bottom of this,

259
00:18:01,916 --> 00:18:05,156
Speaker 1: other than to speculate, because you know, as with any dispute,

260
00:18:05,156 --> 00:18:07,556
Speaker 1: there are always two sides, and the one thing that

261
00:18:07,596 --> 00:18:09,756
Speaker 1: we're not hearing in all of this, and I think

262
00:18:09,756 --> 00:18:12,716
Speaker 1: this is true of all five victims, and it's true

263
00:18:12,796 --> 00:18:16,356
Speaker 1: in any murder case, really is the one person we

264
00:18:16,436 --> 00:18:19,276
Speaker 1: don't hear from is the person who was killed. Yeah.

265
00:18:19,316 --> 00:18:22,396
Speaker 1: The victim is always silent, yes, And the easiest way

266
00:18:22,396 --> 00:18:25,316
Speaker 1: to get someone off is to make the victim the villain.

267
00:18:26,396 --> 00:18:30,956
Speaker 1: Polly suffered financial, social, and emotional consequences for walking out

268
00:18:30,996 --> 00:18:34,476
Speaker 1: on her family, striking out on her own. She had

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00:18:34,556 --> 00:18:38,316
Speaker 1: few choices. Ideally, she would have been expected to live

270
00:18:38,316 --> 00:18:40,996
Speaker 1: with relatives, or she could try to make ends meet

271
00:18:41,076 --> 00:18:44,436
Speaker 1: with grueling physical labor such as domestic service or work

272
00:18:44,556 --> 00:18:48,516
Speaker 1: in an industrial laundry. But whatever she chose, she faced

273
00:18:48,556 --> 00:18:51,716
Speaker 1: an empty existence in a society where a woman without

274
00:18:51,716 --> 00:18:55,556
Speaker 1: a family or a husband was viewed with deep suspicion.

275
00:18:56,636 --> 00:19:00,676
Speaker 1: Such a woman was an aberration and invariably also assumed

276
00:19:00,716 --> 00:19:06,116
Speaker 1: to be sexually immoral. Culpability did not matter to Victorian society.

277
00:19:06,436 --> 00:19:10,716
Speaker 1: If a woman left her family, she had failed. We

278
00:19:10,876 --> 00:19:14,836
Speaker 1: cannot underestimate Polly's internal license of shame. At this point,

279
00:19:15,596 --> 00:19:19,516
Speaker 1: she had lost her home, a husband, her dignity, and

280
00:19:19,676 --> 00:19:23,436
Speaker 1: her very reason for being. There was no way of

281
00:19:23,516 --> 00:19:27,436
Speaker 1: severing ties to William and starting afresh either. For a

282
00:19:27,436 --> 00:19:32,076
Speaker 1: woman of police class and means, divorce was practically impossible.

283
00:19:32,476 --> 00:19:35,956
Speaker 1: The English did not have divorce until eighteen fifty seven.

284
00:19:36,156 --> 00:19:38,916
Speaker 1: You could get separated by the church before that, but

285
00:19:38,956 --> 00:19:41,436
Speaker 1: it was not a divorce. You could not remarry. After

286
00:19:41,516 --> 00:19:44,676
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty seven, they did have secular divorce, but they

287
00:19:44,756 --> 00:19:46,916
Speaker 1: limited it in a number of ways, and it was

288
00:19:46,996 --> 00:19:49,596
Speaker 1: very expensive. There was only one court and it was

289
00:19:49,636 --> 00:19:52,636
Speaker 1: in London, so if you had witnesses then you had

290
00:19:52,636 --> 00:19:55,276
Speaker 1: to pay their expenses to come in. There were court

291
00:19:55,356 --> 00:19:59,076
Speaker 1: fees and solicitor's fees for this as well. And it

292
00:19:59,156 --> 00:20:03,436
Speaker 1: was gendered. That gendered aspect of divorce was all about

293
00:20:03,476 --> 00:20:06,516
Speaker 1: a double standard between men and women. So men could

294
00:20:06,516 --> 00:20:09,516
Speaker 1: divorce for a single act of adultery of their but

295
00:20:09,676 --> 00:20:13,716
Speaker 1: women had to have adultery and another ground, a ground

296
00:20:13,796 --> 00:20:20,476
Speaker 1: such as cruelty, desertion, incest, bigamy, or my personal favorite, bestiality.

297
00:20:20,836 --> 00:20:23,276
Speaker 1: The other thing to remember about English divorce was that

298
00:20:23,316 --> 00:20:27,196
Speaker 1: it required what they called clean hands, which meant that

299
00:20:27,236 --> 00:20:30,396
Speaker 1: the petitioning party that wanted the divorce could not have

300
00:20:30,436 --> 00:20:33,876
Speaker 1: committed a matrimonial offense themselves. So for the most part

301
00:20:33,916 --> 00:20:36,596
Speaker 1: it was a compromise. It was a compromise between people

302
00:20:36,676 --> 00:20:38,676
Speaker 1: who didn't want women to be able to sue at all,

303
00:20:38,756 --> 00:20:41,396
Speaker 1: who wanted divorce to be only for men, and those

304
00:20:41,436 --> 00:20:43,956
Speaker 1: who argued that there should be equal grounds between men

305
00:20:43,956 --> 00:20:46,236
Speaker 1: and women, so they did a compromise between those two.

306
00:20:46,276 --> 00:20:48,516
Speaker 1: They allowed women to sue, but it was harder for

307
00:20:48,556 --> 00:20:50,676
Speaker 1: women to sue. And this was, of course, if you

308
00:20:50,756 --> 00:20:54,356
Speaker 1: had money. If you didn't have money, how would you

309
00:20:54,396 --> 00:20:59,276
Speaker 1: effectively end your marriage. For the most part, working class

310
00:20:59,316 --> 00:21:02,516
Speaker 1: people simply walked away. They divorced with their feet. There

311
00:21:02,556 --> 00:21:04,876
Speaker 1: was no way to do it legally unless they somehow

312
00:21:04,916 --> 00:21:08,716
Speaker 1: came into a fortune. Respectable society simply did not cater

313
00:21:08,836 --> 00:21:12,996
Speaker 1: to men and women who are openly separated. Separation was

314
00:21:13,076 --> 00:21:16,116
Speaker 1: judged to be a living death because married couples who

315
00:21:16,116 --> 00:21:18,956
Speaker 1: split apart could never fully move on with their lives.

316
00:21:19,236 --> 00:21:23,996
Speaker 1: Any future relationship would be considered adulterous. After Polly walked out,

317
00:21:24,516 --> 00:21:28,316
Speaker 1: William's bond with Rosetta developed and she effectively became an

318
00:21:28,356 --> 00:21:33,036
Speaker 1: adoptive mother to his children. However, as their extramarital relationship

319
00:21:33,156 --> 00:21:37,116
Speaker 1: directly contravene Peabody's rules, the couple was forced to find

320
00:21:37,156 --> 00:21:42,556
Speaker 1: another home. Any time that their irregular situation got exposed,

321
00:21:43,036 --> 00:21:46,716
Speaker 1: they were going to face consequences social more than legal consequences.

322
00:21:46,876 --> 00:21:50,436
Speaker 1: It's not illegal what they're doing, it's just socially problematic.

323
00:21:50,596 --> 00:21:53,076
Speaker 1: What I find is people who live together but were

324
00:21:53,076 --> 00:21:55,716
Speaker 1: not married, almost all of which are adulterous because they

325
00:21:55,716 --> 00:21:58,676
Speaker 1: can't get divorced. They bump along, okay, they can tell

326
00:21:58,676 --> 00:22:01,356
Speaker 1: their neighbors they're married, they act like husband and wife.

327
00:22:01,516 --> 00:22:04,596
Speaker 1: It's when they run into trouble when it gets exposed,

328
00:22:04,836 --> 00:22:07,196
Speaker 1: because no matter how long you've lived together, no matter

329
00:22:07,196 --> 00:22:08,916
Speaker 1: how much you love each other, no matter how much

330
00:22:09,156 --> 00:22:11,156
Speaker 1: of your children, you are not married in the eyes

331
00:22:11,196 --> 00:22:13,596
Speaker 1: of the state, and the state will treat your children

332
00:22:13,636 --> 00:22:16,916
Speaker 1: as illegitimate children, which means they don't have a legal father.

333
00:22:17,036 --> 00:22:18,876
Speaker 1: They don't even really have a legal mother. She's just

334
00:22:18,956 --> 00:22:22,116
Speaker 1: responsible for supporting them. There's far more consequences for the

335
00:22:22,156 --> 00:22:24,796
Speaker 1: working class woman, but the man is not without them.

336
00:22:25,116 --> 00:22:28,876
Speaker 1: For her part, Polly faced not only degradation, but also

337
00:22:29,116 --> 00:22:32,636
Speaker 1: abject poverty. The work available to women at the time

338
00:22:32,756 --> 00:22:35,836
Speaker 1: was deliberately designed to pay less than a male wage,

339
00:22:36,076 --> 00:22:40,036
Speaker 1: because women were intended to be dependent on men. Ironically,

340
00:22:40,356 --> 00:22:43,596
Speaker 1: Polly's only hope of securing an income was to prove

341
00:22:43,716 --> 00:22:47,796
Speaker 1: she was completely destitute and to enter her local workhouse.

342
00:22:51,396 --> 00:22:59,636
Speaker 1: The ripper retold will be back in a moment. Few

343
00:22:59,676 --> 00:23:04,196
Speaker 1: places were more feared or reviled than the workhouse. This

344
00:23:04,316 --> 00:23:08,516
Speaker 1: austere and foreboding institution was funded by taxes or rates,

345
00:23:09,116 --> 00:23:12,436
Speaker 1: and offered accommodation and basic rations to those who are

346
00:23:12,516 --> 00:23:16,996
Speaker 1: unable to support themselves. Men perform tasks such as stone breaking,

347
00:23:17,596 --> 00:23:21,036
Speaker 1: Women did laundry work, prepared food and picked oakum the

348
00:23:21,196 --> 00:23:24,716
Speaker 1: arduous process of separating out fibers from old ship's ropes

349
00:23:24,756 --> 00:23:28,956
Speaker 1: to sell them on. One of the primary functions of

350
00:23:28,956 --> 00:23:32,556
Speaker 1: the workhouse was to humiliate those who relied upon it,

351
00:23:33,316 --> 00:23:37,356
Speaker 1: regardless of their circumstances. The old, the infirm, the sick,

352
00:23:37,556 --> 00:23:42,716
Speaker 1: the abandoned, and the able bodied were treated with equal disdain.

353
00:23:43,716 --> 00:23:47,916
Speaker 1: In the workhouse, Polly could expect to experience constant hunger,

354
00:23:48,356 --> 00:23:52,996
Speaker 1: frequent illness, and broken sleep. Beatings and bullying at the

355
00:23:53,036 --> 00:23:56,316
Speaker 1: hands of both staff and by fellow inmates were common.

356
00:23:57,076 --> 00:24:01,116
Speaker 1: Restricted access to water, exposure to rats, light, and contaminated

357
00:24:01,156 --> 00:24:05,676
Speaker 1: food ensured that inmates regularly suffered from diarrhea and infections.

358
00:24:08,196 --> 00:24:11,436
Speaker 1: These grim conditions, well known to those outside the workhouse walls,

359
00:24:11,756 --> 00:24:15,756
Speaker 1: were partly about deterrence. They highlight the Victorian belief that

360
00:24:15,796 --> 00:24:20,636
Speaker 1: poverty was somehow a choice, a question of moral deficiency

361
00:24:20,916 --> 00:24:24,636
Speaker 1: as much as one of material lack. Inmates were judged

362
00:24:24,676 --> 00:24:28,556
Speaker 1: to be lazy and immoral. Paupers refused to do honest

363
00:24:28,596 --> 00:24:33,396
Speaker 1: work and had to be broken into submission. When Polly

364
00:24:33,436 --> 00:24:37,236
Speaker 1: approached Lambeth Union Workhouse, she would likely have been fearful,

365
00:24:37,556 --> 00:24:40,396
Speaker 1: aware that once she passed through its gates she would

366
00:24:40,396 --> 00:24:43,796
Speaker 1: be tainted. However, it was only with the approval of

367
00:24:43,796 --> 00:24:46,556
Speaker 1: the workhouse guardians that she would be able to secure

368
00:24:46,676 --> 00:24:52,356
Speaker 1: regular alimony or maintenance payments from William. The legal basis

369
00:24:52,396 --> 00:24:54,596
Speaker 1: of it is that the rape payers are supporting her

370
00:24:54,636 --> 00:24:57,236
Speaker 1: when her husband should be, and so she would go

371
00:24:57,276 --> 00:25:00,396
Speaker 1: to the workhouse and then they would basically sue him

372
00:25:00,596 --> 00:25:03,036
Speaker 1: to get the money for her maintenance from him, and

373
00:25:03,156 --> 00:25:05,796
Speaker 1: they could bring a criminal case against him for a

374
00:25:05,876 --> 00:25:08,796
Speaker 1: non support of his wife. But usually all you had

375
00:25:08,836 --> 00:25:11,036
Speaker 1: to do will send a letter to the husband and

376
00:25:11,076 --> 00:25:14,116
Speaker 1: say we or the guardians of this parish, and we're

377
00:25:14,236 --> 00:25:16,676
Speaker 1: supporting your wife and you should be supporting your wife,

378
00:25:16,756 --> 00:25:19,876
Speaker 1: so we expect you to remove her or to repay

379
00:25:19,916 --> 00:25:22,716
Speaker 1: us for her maintenance. And at that point he has

380
00:25:22,756 --> 00:25:25,676
Speaker 1: to decide how to respond to that. Usually men would

381
00:25:25,716 --> 00:25:28,596
Speaker 1: offer money. They would say I can pay this much,

382
00:25:28,916 --> 00:25:31,036
Speaker 1: and lots of times the parish would take the deal.

383
00:25:31,276 --> 00:25:32,956
Speaker 1: I can't afford six shillings a week, but I can

384
00:25:32,996 --> 00:25:36,236
Speaker 1: afford three. They'll take the three, usually to help offset

385
00:25:36,276 --> 00:25:40,036
Speaker 1: the money. Even after the court started giving women maintenance payments,

386
00:25:40,236 --> 00:25:42,476
Speaker 1: getting the men to pay it was what was hard.

387
00:25:42,596 --> 00:25:44,796
Speaker 1: A man could even if you arrested him and he

388
00:25:44,836 --> 00:25:47,716
Speaker 1: was found guilty, he'd get a couple of months in jail,

389
00:25:47,796 --> 00:25:50,156
Speaker 1: and then he'd be out and the debt is wiped

390
00:25:50,236 --> 00:25:52,916
Speaker 1: clean by the jail sentence, and then you'd start the

391
00:25:52,956 --> 00:25:56,076
Speaker 1: process over, but you never get the money. Securing maintenance

392
00:25:56,116 --> 00:26:00,076
Speaker 1: from William was far from easy. Polly had to claim desertion,

393
00:26:00,596 --> 00:26:03,836
Speaker 1: and the guardians regarded women who declared themselves deserted with

394
00:26:03,996 --> 00:26:09,516
Speaker 1: profound suspicion. Upon entrance, Polly underwent a verbal exam nation

395
00:26:09,956 --> 00:26:12,876
Speaker 1: from one or more officials to determine whether she was

396
00:26:12,956 --> 00:26:17,516
Speaker 1: worthy of aid. Their questions prodded and probed, and were

397
00:26:17,636 --> 00:26:21,796
Speaker 1: steeped in judgment. They began by asking her her full name,

398
00:26:22,196 --> 00:26:28,196
Speaker 1: her age, address, and her marital status. Then the questions escalated,

399
00:26:28,436 --> 00:26:30,796
Speaker 1: do you have any relatives who are legally bound to

400
00:26:30,836 --> 00:26:35,996
Speaker 1: support you? What is your husband's name? How many children

401
00:26:36,036 --> 00:26:41,636
Speaker 1: do you have? Are they legitimate? That last question was

402
00:26:41,716 --> 00:26:44,676
Speaker 1: designed to mortify Polly and prompt her to reveal the

403
00:26:44,716 --> 00:26:49,436
Speaker 1: embarrassing details of her marriage breakdown. Next, William Nichols was

404
00:26:49,476 --> 00:26:52,396
Speaker 1: made to account for himself. He was interviewed by the

405
00:26:52,436 --> 00:26:57,076
Speaker 1: official handling Polly's case. Nichols likely told him that Polly

406
00:26:57,156 --> 00:26:59,556
Speaker 1: was not a deserted wife at all, but that their

407
00:26:59,596 --> 00:27:04,116
Speaker 1: marriage ended because of her drinking. He had a vested

408
00:27:04,156 --> 00:27:08,796
Speaker 1: interest in sullying her name. The official was unconvinced, however,

409
00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:11,876
Speaker 1: and he compelled William to pay five shillings per week,

410
00:27:12,356 --> 00:27:16,916
Speaker 1: a pittance which Polly then collected from the workhouse. When

411
00:27:16,916 --> 00:27:19,036
Speaker 1: a marriage breaks down in the working class, it's hard

412
00:27:19,076 --> 00:27:22,196
Speaker 1: on both because the man can't afford two households. So

413
00:27:22,236 --> 00:27:26,036
Speaker 1: if he's supporting his wife, his legal wife, and another woman,

414
00:27:26,196 --> 00:27:28,836
Speaker 1: almost no working classman can afford that. They can barely

415
00:27:28,836 --> 00:27:32,516
Speaker 1: get by with one household. So unless she can make

416
00:27:32,516 --> 00:27:34,836
Speaker 1: her own money, or unless she hooks up with someone else,

417
00:27:34,916 --> 00:27:37,316
Speaker 1: unless she ends up living with another person, that is

418
00:27:37,356 --> 00:27:41,196
Speaker 1: not a viable financial situation for either party. If William

419
00:27:41,196 --> 00:27:44,036
Speaker 1: could prove that Polly was living with another man, that

420
00:27:44,156 --> 00:27:47,716
Speaker 1: she was someone else's financial problem, he could wriggle free

421
00:27:47,756 --> 00:27:50,556
Speaker 1: of his obligations to her for a time. It seems

422
00:27:50,596 --> 00:27:53,596
Speaker 1: Polly had taken up with another man, and it was

423
00:27:53,636 --> 00:27:57,556
Speaker 1: around this point that William Nichols engaged the spying services

424
00:27:57,596 --> 00:28:02,956
Speaker 1: of a private eye. Private investigation agents regularly advertised in

425
00:28:03,036 --> 00:28:07,876
Speaker 1: London's newspapers. Procuring evidence for divorce cases was always listed

426
00:28:07,916 --> 00:28:13,476
Speaker 1: prominently among the services offered. Private detective offices conducted by

427
00:28:13,516 --> 00:28:18,996
Speaker 1: Messrs Cameron and Co. Divorce and all confidential cases investigated

428
00:28:19,116 --> 00:28:24,316
Speaker 1: with secrecy and dispatch by experienced detectives. Evidence collected and

429
00:28:24,436 --> 00:28:27,836
Speaker 1: witnesses found for any law cases and their evidence taken,

430
00:28:28,516 --> 00:28:37,516
Speaker 1: foreign languages spoken and translated. A spy followed Polly, watching her,

431
00:28:38,116 --> 00:28:42,116
Speaker 1: asking about her in the neighborhood, obtaining the necessary evidence

432
00:28:42,116 --> 00:28:47,836
Speaker 1: and presenting it to William, who promptly ceased his payments. Eventually,

433
00:28:47,836 --> 00:28:51,076
Speaker 1: William was summoned to the magistrate's court to explain himself.

434
00:28:51,556 --> 00:28:55,796
Speaker 1: He was prepared and produced his proof. Polly denied that

435
00:28:55,836 --> 00:28:58,476
Speaker 1: she was living with another man, but the judge sided

436
00:28:58,516 --> 00:29:03,076
Speaker 1: with William and absolved him of his financial responsibilities. In

437
00:29:03,116 --> 00:29:06,596
Speaker 1: all probability, Polly's relationship with the other man had ended

438
00:29:06,596 --> 00:29:09,796
Speaker 1: by this point. If it hadn't, would not have found

439
00:29:09,796 --> 00:29:14,436
Speaker 1: herself destitute when William's five shilling payments were terminated. If

440
00:29:14,436 --> 00:29:17,556
Speaker 1: she had another viable means of supporting herself, such as

441
00:29:17,596 --> 00:29:21,156
Speaker 1: sex work, as it has been suggested, she would not

442
00:29:21,196 --> 00:29:23,956
Speaker 1: have had to surrender herself once more to the stony

443
00:29:23,996 --> 00:29:29,516
Speaker 1: embrace of Lambeth Union Workhouse. Over the next few years,

444
00:29:29,916 --> 00:29:32,916
Speaker 1: Polly was in and out of the workhouse. At one

445
00:29:32,956 --> 00:29:35,916
Speaker 1: point she went to live with her father, brother, his wife,

446
00:29:35,996 --> 00:29:40,356
Speaker 1: and their five children in their small home. She reportedly

447
00:29:40,396 --> 00:29:43,116
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time at the local pub, and

448
00:29:43,236 --> 00:29:48,036
Speaker 1: her drinking cost arguments. According to Edward Walker, his daughter

449
00:29:48,116 --> 00:29:51,116
Speaker 1: did not stay out particularly late, and nor had he

450
00:29:51,156 --> 00:29:56,396
Speaker 1: ever heard of her conduct being, as he said, improper. Nevertheless,

451
00:29:56,516 --> 00:30:00,916
Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty four, Polly's behavior apparently rendered home life impossible.

452
00:30:01,796 --> 00:30:04,436
Speaker 1: She thought she was better by herself, her father said,

453
00:30:05,156 --> 00:30:08,876
Speaker 1: so I let her go. At this point, Polly had

454
00:30:09,116 --> 00:30:12,276
Speaker 1: either a husband nor a family at her side. She

455
00:30:12,476 --> 00:30:16,316
Speaker 1: was alone, with little possibility of supporting herself and placing

456
00:30:16,316 --> 00:30:19,836
Speaker 1: a roof over her own head. In the following years,

457
00:30:19,876 --> 00:30:24,156
Speaker 1: she oscillated between the workhouse, temporary lodging houses or doss

458
00:30:24,196 --> 00:30:29,716
Speaker 1: houses and the cold cobblestones of the streets. In eighteen

459
00:30:29,796 --> 00:30:32,956
Speaker 1: eighty seven, she was sleeping rough one of an estimated

460
00:30:33,076 --> 00:30:37,716
Speaker 1: seventy thousand homeless people in London that year. The experience

461
00:30:37,876 --> 00:30:41,956
Speaker 1: was a miserable one. Women like Polly who found themselves

462
00:30:41,956 --> 00:30:45,156
Speaker 1: without shelter would even expect to become the victims of

463
00:30:45,236 --> 00:30:49,516
Speaker 1: sexual violence. But this is not the point in our

464
00:30:49,556 --> 00:30:53,076
Speaker 1: story where Polly meets her end. As had been the

465
00:30:53,076 --> 00:30:57,076
Speaker 1: case throughout her life, there were choices and opportunities before her,

466
00:30:57,476 --> 00:31:01,276
Speaker 1: and events that altered her trajectory. In the spring of

467
00:31:01,316 --> 00:31:03,996
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty eight, the workhouse found her a job as

468
00:31:03,996 --> 00:31:07,076
Speaker 1: a domestic servant. This was part of a scheme to

469
00:31:07,116 --> 00:31:11,876
Speaker 1: rehabilitate inmates. She was dispatched to the Cowdrees, a Baptist

470
00:31:11,916 --> 00:31:15,196
Speaker 1: couple who lived in a large house surrounded by gardens

471
00:31:15,276 --> 00:31:19,516
Speaker 1: and trees. Polly arrived on May twelfth with nothing more

472
00:31:19,556 --> 00:31:22,956
Speaker 1: than the clothes on her back. Missus Cowdrey supplied her

473
00:31:22,956 --> 00:31:29,276
Speaker 1: with various necessities, including shoes, a decent bonnet, a night dress, caps, pinafores,

474
00:31:29,436 --> 00:31:33,076
Speaker 1: and hair combs. After all, no middle class mistress wanted

475
00:31:33,036 --> 00:31:36,596
Speaker 1: to her maid to appear ragged before visitors. In her

476
00:31:36,636 --> 00:31:39,556
Speaker 1: first week with the Cowdrees, Polly gathered the courage to

477
00:31:39,596 --> 00:31:42,276
Speaker 1: write to her father, who was now living with her

478
00:31:42,276 --> 00:31:44,956
Speaker 1: eldest son. I just write to say you will be

479
00:31:44,996 --> 00:31:46,916
Speaker 1: glad to know that I am settled in my new

480
00:31:46,956 --> 00:31:49,916
Speaker 1: place and going all right up to now. My people

481
00:31:49,956 --> 00:31:52,356
Speaker 1: went out yesterday and have not returned, so I am

482
00:31:52,436 --> 00:31:56,676
Speaker 1: left in charge. It's a grand place with trees and gardens.

483
00:31:56,716 --> 00:32:00,796
Speaker 1: Back in front all has been newly done up. They

484
00:32:00,836 --> 00:32:03,636
Speaker 1: are teetotalers and very religious, so I ought to get on.

485
00:32:04,556 --> 00:32:07,196
Speaker 1: They're very nice people, and I have not much to do.

486
00:32:08,476 --> 00:32:10,996
Speaker 1: I do hope you're all right, and the boy has work,

487
00:32:12,276 --> 00:32:17,916
Speaker 1: so good bye for the present. Yours truly, Polly answer,

488
00:32:17,956 --> 00:32:22,316
Speaker 1: so please and let me know how you are. Polly's

489
00:32:22,316 --> 00:32:25,436
Speaker 1: experiences at the Cowdreyes would have been more comfortable than

490
00:32:25,516 --> 00:32:28,876
Speaker 1: life sleeping rough or at the workhouse. She had the

491
00:32:28,956 --> 00:32:31,356
Speaker 1: use of the garden, eight three meals a day, and

492
00:32:31,516 --> 00:32:36,156
Speaker 1: wore clean clothes. But perhaps she was also lonely, marched

493
00:32:36,156 --> 00:32:39,116
Speaker 1: to chapel by the religious Cowdrees and shamed for the

494
00:32:39,196 --> 00:32:42,236
Speaker 1: life that she had thus far led. There was no

495
00:32:42,356 --> 00:32:45,516
Speaker 1: other servant with him to chat or share jokes. And

496
00:32:45,596 --> 00:32:49,036
Speaker 1: separated from her family. The days and nights may have

497
00:32:49,076 --> 00:32:54,676
Speaker 1: seemed painfully empty, whatever the reason. For a second time

498
00:32:54,716 --> 00:32:58,116
Speaker 1: in her life, Polly made the decision to walk out.

499
00:32:59,156 --> 00:33:02,156
Speaker 1: In July eighteen eighty eight, she took her new belongings

500
00:33:02,196 --> 00:33:07,596
Speaker 1: with her and simply disappeared. This time she ended up

501
00:33:07,676 --> 00:33:14,036
Speaker 1: in Whitechapel Jack, the Rippers Hunting Ground. In six weeks time,

502
00:33:14,636 --> 00:33:17,796
Speaker 1: she would be dead and her story would cease to

503
00:33:17,836 --> 00:33:22,956
Speaker 1: be her own. Society would pick at her carcass, breaking

504
00:33:22,956 --> 00:33:26,236
Speaker 1: over not only the grim details of her demise, but

505
00:33:26,396 --> 00:33:30,876
Speaker 1: also linking her murder to the supposed depravity of her existence,

506
00:33:31,916 --> 00:33:53,236
Speaker 1: because in the end, bad women get what's coming to them.

507
00:33:53,276 --> 00:33:55,316
Speaker 1: Bad women. The Ripper Were Told is brought to you

508
00:33:55,396 --> 00:33:58,916
Speaker 1: by Pushkin Industries and me Hallie Ribbinhold, and is based

509
00:33:58,916 --> 00:34:02,036
Speaker 1: on my book The Five. It was produced and co

510
00:34:02,156 --> 00:34:04,916
Speaker 1: written by Ryan Dilley and Alice Fines, with help from

511
00:34:04,916 --> 00:34:08,996
Speaker 1: Pete Norton. Pascal Wise Sound designed and mixed the show

512
00:34:09,316 --> 00:34:12,916
Speaker 1: and composed all the original music. You also heard the

513
00:34:12,996 --> 00:34:16,996
Speaker 1: voice talents of Soul Boyer, Melanie Guttridge, Gemma Saunders, and

514
00:34:17,116 --> 00:34:20,636
Speaker 1: rufus Wright. The show also wouldn't have been possible without

515
00:34:20,676 --> 00:34:24,316
Speaker 1: the work of Mia La Belle, Jacob Weisberg, Jen Guerra,

516
00:34:24,716 --> 00:34:30,276
Speaker 1: Heather Fane, Carlie Migliori, Maggie Taylor, Nicole Morano and Daniella

517
00:34:30,356 --> 00:34:34,796
Speaker 1: Lacane were special thanks to my agents Sarah Ballard and

518
00:34:34,876 --> 00:34:35,516
Speaker 1: Ellie Kron