WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Jane Doe 245UFVA 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:16.000 Thinking Sideways. I don't think you never know what stories 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:20.639 of things. We simply don't know the answer too well. 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:25.840 Hi there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:30.920 I'm Devin, I'm Steve, I'm Joe, and we're gonna definitely 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.839 solve a mystery tonight. We are. Hell yeah, don't you 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.319 think we're going to solve this one? You don't think 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:42.080 the based on the name not so much. Okay, I'm 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.800 sorry to be a naysayer, but I I got reservations tonight. 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.400 That's fair. It's uh so we're doing this case. It's 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:54.200 called Jane Doe to four five U F v A. 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:58.000 It's a really sexy name, right yeah? Would you dress 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.920 it up? Rolls off the tongue of parents would name 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:06.679 their kids. So yeah, I mean, you know, let's just 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.920 get into it. Our story starts on December eighteenth, six 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.520 in the Pleasant Valley Memorial Park, which is a small 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.320 cemetery in Annandale, Virginia. That's how you say that name, right, 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:24.400 Annandale sounds just like um. The body of an unidentified 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.399 woman is found in the part of the cemetery that's 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.320 designated for children's graves. And now this is one of 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.520 the things I heard this thing about about this cemetery, 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.520 and I didn't know that cemeteries typically has segregated children's sections. 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:42.640 I think smaller cemeteries often do this. Is it it's 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.959 in a smaller town. Well, and isn't it the cemetery 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.880 is old? Yeah, no, actually it's not. The cemetery itself 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.080 is old. This area specifically where she was found was 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:57.320 near more very recent grows. Okay, no, actually I did 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.280 a little research on the cemetery. They've got a webpage. Yeah, 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:04.000 they didn't start the cemetery. Oh that's all to me. 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.360 Well yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah it was it was 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.400 somebody's estate. Apparently somebody looks, you know, some very wealthy 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:12.880 person there and their stays sold to developers who created 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.280 the cemetery. Right. I think in smaller places they often 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:18.440 do that. Yeah. I don't know if they had in 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:22.280 a naturally high rate of invent mortality there or anything 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.399 like that they needed that. I don't really know why 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:28.519 they had that area, but they did. They found two 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.480 fifty bills, one was for the corner and one was 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.520 for the cemetery. Cemetery, and they both had the note 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.760 with them, A note with them that read deceased by 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.880 own hand, prefer no autopsy, Please order cremation with funds provided, 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:46.160 Thank you, Jane Doe. So, first off, that's a little weird. 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:50.720 She signed Jane Doe doesn't want an autopsy, and really 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:56.799 fifty dollars for cremation obviously created anybody for a long 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.560 long time, it's has gone up, Yeah, a little bit. 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.000 So all right, it's it's already a little bit weird. 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:07.000 That's unusual. Right. So she had apparently taken some valium 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:10.520 and consumed a sizeable amount of brandy. Her blood alcohol 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:17.839 level was point one four. The yeah, so that's that's 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.880 a lot of brandy, especially brandy. Let's be honest here, 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.160 of the alcohols you think, oh, I could drink a 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.280 lot of that brandy I believe or not some people 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:32.079 like that stuff. Maybe I don't know. So in addition 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.320 to the brandy that they found in the site, I 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.560 think it was like near her hand or something. I 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:40.120 don't it was unclear. It wasn't part of her knapsack findings. 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.040 Um they found her knapsack and it had two empty 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:47.240 juice bottles, a roll of masking tape, a Jeff Fox 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.480 wherethy you might Be, a Redneck cassette, a Monty Python, 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.840 and the Holy Grail cassette. She had a portable tape 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.920 player and headphones um and the headphones were on her 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:58.840 head over her ears, and she had been listening to 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:03.360 recording comedians mel Brooks and Carl Reiner doing their two 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.520 thousand year old man routine. Sir, is it true that 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:14.280 you are two thousand years old? Boy? You are too. 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.680 It's hard to believe, sir, because in the history of man, 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.160 nobody's ever lived more than a hundred and sixty seven 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.160 years as the man from Peru would claim to be. 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.680 But you claim to be two thousands. Yes, I'll be. 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:34.400 I'm not yet, I'll be two thousand October. She wanted 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.480 to have a fun time. Yeah, this is it's kind 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.280 of you know, they're all comedies. She seems to kind 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.719 of be feeling trying to feel better about herself or something. 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:47.680 So this is another like, uh, put off the thing 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.320 about this case. So she had they found her. The 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:55.480 headphones were on the tape presumably had been playing, but 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.560 she'd killed herself by putting a plastic bag over her 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.440 head over the headphones and taping it shut and suffocating 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.720 herself while she listened to a comedy cassette tape. And 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:08.960 this is this is a that's kind of a weird, 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.479 difficult way to kill yourself. Yeah, I just thinking the 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:17.240 same thing. Putting tape around your own neck can't be easy. Yeah, 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.039 I agree with that. I think that would be that hard. 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.920 But but actually like just laying there and suffocating without 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:25.919 tearing the bag after well, I think part of that 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.760 is the valium and brandy, right. I think that probably 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.080 helped a little bit. If she was just really really 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.760 drunk and really high on valium, maybe she just fell 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.400 asleep and just never woke up. But I this, this 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.800 is one of the things that raises some red flags 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.920 for people in this case partnered especially with the like 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.920 very weird suicide note it comes along with it, and 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.960 we'll get to this of course later. Next to her, 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:54.400 there was a clear plastic sheet on the ground, and 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:56.719 next to the sheet there was an eight inch Christmas 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.640 tree that um was set up. It wasn't just like 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:01.440 calling the ground, It was set up and it had 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:05.360 gold balls and red ribbon. And they also found a 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:09.600 poem written on a typewriter that read, now I lay 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.240 me down to sleep soon to drift off to the 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.200 eternal deep. And though I die and shall not wake, sleep, 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:20.920 we'll sleep sweeter will be than this life I forsake. 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.280 Weird which starts out like the now I lay me 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.919 down to exactly keep And a Google search of this 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.839 phrase yields no results except for things pertaining to this case. 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:35.640 So she was kind of a pellet that maybe she 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.279 made this up. Maybe yeah, and she had access to 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:43.320 a typewriter well in in like rural Virginia. But that's 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.240 maybe not so weird. Well, it's not weird, but when 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.279 you think about it, I mean, she she didn't appear 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.600 to be from around the area because nobody reported her 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.159 missing from the immediate area. But nobody reported her missing 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:57.320 from any area. She could have been reported missing from 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.000 somewhere else, or and they just never tied the two together. 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.159 Or maybe she was never reported missing. Yeah, and again 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:06.200 we'll get yeah to more of that. But that's true. 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:11.000 You know a typewriter or you know something. The deceased 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.680 by own hand letter was also written on a typewriter. 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:16.520 I guess it could have been a computer. I don't 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.600 you know. I don't know. I would say if if 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.280 it was done with a typewriter. They would specifically say 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.960 a typewriter, because the typewriter leaves an impression in paper 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.360 that a printer, even an old dot matrix printer, wouldn't 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:31.080 be able to replicate. Yeah, they do, they specify. Some 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.280 people specify, I should be clear. Some people specified that 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.680 the now it lay me down to sleep was on 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:42.920 a typewriter. Others don't. Nobody specifies about the deceased by 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.960 own hand letter being typewritten or not, or handwritten or not. 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.640 I saw some pictures of some of her personal effects, 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:51.680 and it was a picture of the typewritten No no 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.720 other down to sleep. I didn't see any picture the 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:57.440 deceased by own hand, So I have no idea. Yeah 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.840 I don't either. That's okay, it's already like a little weird. 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.960 So let's talk about her clothes and jewelry, because it's 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.440 also weird. At least I think it's weird. Let's have 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.760 it all right. So, she was wearing a teal all 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.640 weather Eddie Bauer hooded jacket which was sized medium. These 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:18.440 are important, by the way, sized medium. She was wearing 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:24.200 a navy blue sweater sized large red sweater, a red 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:30.360 sweater sized extra large red sleeveless silk shirt sized petite large, 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:35.679 a navy blue knit wool pants size large, black loafers 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:38.400 sized medium. And all of those clothes are clothes that 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.000 you would find it like an upscale kind of like 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.240 Sacks Fifth Avenue is what they've been tossing around are. 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.719 You might find them also a good will, because you'll 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:48.600 find lots of new clothes at the good will. And 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:50.800 the thing about the good will is you'll find something 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:52.480 really cool that you like, but it's never in your 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:58.920 size exactly. Yeah. Well yeah, And isn't it that all 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.920 of them were you said they came from like Sax 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:07.240 fifth alf or something, and they were all nicer brands. Yeah, really, 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.120 all the same brand basically. Yeah, except for the Eddie 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:15.079 Bauer jacket. Everything was kind of the same size. I'm sorry, 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.080 the same brand, got it? Got it? Okay? Um? But 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.720 they're all weird sizes, you know. So that's something that 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:25.160 piques a lot of people's interests Um And I know, Joe, 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.160 you had expressed some interest in this that you Where 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:29.520 do you get these things? You get them from the 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:34.160 sack Smith Avenue, you get them firsthand, or you get 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:39.440 them a goodwill? Right, People talk about the brand being 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:43.920 indicative of her being more well off, but other people 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.160 talk about maybe she just had a think for this 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.480 brand and got them all at I never saw anything 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.840 in the reading and the research that talked about the 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.959 condition of the clothes. Did you ever come across anything 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.160 like that, No, because that would be something to me. 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:03.320 I would wonder if they're in really good condition, that 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.480 would indicate she bought them new. If they weren't in 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.160 the best of condition or a little threadbare in spots, 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:11.440 that would say that she bought them at a second 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:16.240 hand store. So I'm surprised that this has never come out. Yeah, 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.280 although you know, I found stuff like a good will 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.640 and stuff that looked almost new. So you find stuff 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.079 there that somebody gets for the president. They buy it 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:26.640 and they never wear and they finally get rid of it. 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.360 That's true. It's entirely possible, but that's definitely true. So 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.199 they also she also has some jewelry. There was a 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.760 small gold watch that she was wearing as a guess watch, 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.560 which isn't cheap. I mean, you know, it's not like 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.040 the most luxurious, luxurious of brands, but those watches are 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:48.880 like a couple hundred bucks usually well in especially Yeah, 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.040 and a fourteen carrot gold ring that had four jade 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.679 stones in it. Um. She also had a metal bead 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.200 chain with a medic alert you know those medical tags 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:03.679 or whatever. Uh, and it said no code DNR, no penicillin. 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.079 So another thing that people are talking about, right, is 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.080 that she's a Jane Doe. But often you can trace 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:17.000 these things, these medicals, Yeah, do they actually it's numbered. 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.120 They're not. You can order them from wherever you want, 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.640 especially like when we're getting into the nineties. You just 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.120 order like a dog tag with whatever on it. They're not. 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:33.720 There's no medical issuance of these things. You might actually 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.760 be able to find what the good will you probably, 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:42.600 so you know, no, it is you could. You could 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.320 get all these things at the good will probably, but 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.000 you also might get them because you are well off 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.560 and you like spending money. So this is another part 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:55.959 of the mystery, right, is that either she's a well 0:11:56.000 --> 0:12:01.640 off older woman or she's like kind of a vagrant, 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.079 transient kind of person who just got a bunch of 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:09.199 stuff at the good will, including a typewriter, because including 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.079 a we're exactly how exactly do you get access to 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:18.800 a typewriter in paper to I don't think I do. 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.520 Like to look on your face, I can see, Oh, 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.240 I gotta go to the library. I haven't been there 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:25.959 in a while. Yeah, I haven't seen a typewriter in 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.040 a while. Be kind of cool to see one. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:33.240 Well we do live in Portland, Oregon, so you so 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.160 you know the other thing that really gets me about 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.080 this case is that she's never been identified. They have 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.079 her DNA on record, they have her fingerprints on record, 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.160 they have her dental record. But you would think that 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.200 somebody somewhere would have a record of this woman, right, 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:50.840 especially with all that information, and it was the nineties. 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.120 It's not like this is like the bad version of 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:58.240 all those things from the fifties, right, Yeah, it's it's yeah, 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.840 you would think that information be spread a little easier. Well, yeah, 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:03.440 I think about it is. It's like like, stay with 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.120 their d N a m. You still have to find 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.920 somebody that you know to match her too. Sure, but 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.760 fingerprints though, right, your prints als was probably never arrest 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:17.319 their fingerprinted. So that's a good point. They don't. I mean, 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.120 people think in this day and age, we get fingerprinted 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:26.160 more often than people did twenty years ago. You gotta 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:27.960 go to the bank, you gotta give a fingerprint for 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:32.760 certain checks or for jobs or for whatever. Where As 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.160 before I think it was, like Joe said, if you 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.880 were booked into the system for a variety of reasons, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.959 or if you had some high security clearance job, they'd 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.080 have your fingerprints on file. But otherwise they're not there. 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:48.559 I guess that's true. I don't Yeah, I don't think 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.280 about that, you know, like I you go get a 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:53.880 job and they say, okay, we gotta get your fingerprints, 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.360 and that's just normal discourse these days today it is. Yeah, 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.199 I guess that's fair that that's fairly new. Yeah. So 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.920 and dental records, yeah, because yeah, I mean it's you know, 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.240 unless you have somebody that you're trying to match it too. 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.480 It's like a needle in a haystack. Same DNA. So 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.840 so some days somebody comes forward and says, hey, we 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:15.840 think this might be our and Nettie or something like that. 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.120 Then you can you can use the DNA then to 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:23.040 solve the whole problem. Yeah, but that's about it pretty much. Dang, Yeah, 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:29.560 I was so on it. So there are Oh, I 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.960 guess the other thing I should mention is that pretty 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.800 much Nobody thinks she was a drifter, though she was 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.120 likely not from that area. People don't think that she 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.680 was just like a vagrant that happened along in this area. 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.920 Everybody seems to think that it was fairly intentional that 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.640 she traveled to this spot and died there. Yeah, I 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.000 don't think, you know, for example, the jewelry. I don't 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.960 think your typical homeless person has you know, expensive fourteen 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:57.600 care at gold jade. And I don't think that most 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.760 people donate things like a fourteen here it jade ring 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.520 to good will. You know. I think that the big 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.800 hitch in that theory, maybe you was her wedding ring 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.560 or something. But most people, if you're going to get 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.120 rid of that, you're going to pawn it. At least 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:12.840 maybe she got it a pawn shop. I don't know. Yeah, 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:14.960 maybe another really popular way to get rid of stuff 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:16.560 like that is to have a stolen from you. That 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.600 was a lot. That's true, That's definitely true, you know. 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.200 And the other thing is how did she get to 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:27.320 the cemetery? Did she take a cab? So don't you 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.960 think that like a cabby would remember if he gave 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.280 a ride to a woman who had like a Christmas 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.360 tree with her. Oh yeah, but but you know, there's 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.520 two things. She had a backpack. The backpack was big 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.960 enough to hold the Christmas tree. But also she might 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:42.760 have she might have also gotten the Christmas tree at 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.680 the cemetery if they if somebody came in and put 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.760 a little Christmas tree on their child's grave, for example. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.560 That's true because it was that time of year. She 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.440 might have decided, that's kind of cheery. I'm gonna go 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.000 grab that lay next to people while I kill myself. Yeah. Yeah, 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:58.560 well that she did a lot of weird things while 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.200 she killed herself. And help I gets this town? Do 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.320 you know the basically the approximate population of the town. 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:07.640 I did. I did a little research because I was 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:09.720 curious about how she got there too, like like, so 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.800 I did a little research, and I was it was inconclusive. 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.040 Like I did googling on bus lines between Annandale and 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.920 Fairfaxure exactly where I was going. Was there any kind 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.360 of public transportation in the area. Yeah, and I was 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:24.320 not able to establish the existence. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:26.080 I was not able established and and that was just 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.880 a government website. There might be private line too, But 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.320 I couldn't find any any indication that there's a line 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.760 that runs between those two towns, for example, But you know, 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.320 doesn't mean they don't. It's a fairly populous part of 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.480 the country, and I would think that there would be 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.680 some sort of transportation options are a rail But you know, 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.720 I don't know how close proximity this cemetery is to 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.880 a rail station. I looked at the I looked at 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.680 the Google map of and everything in the aerials and everything, 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:56.480 and I saw there are plenty of roads around there, 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.720 major thoroughfares, but no rail lines to speak of. Interesting, 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.720 So your she's going to walk, take a cab, maybe 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.560 a bicycle, Oh, bicycle probably? Why do we always forget 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:14.600 about bicycle? I know, the antiquated everywhere. Um So, there 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.200 are a couple of theory. There's some that are really interesting, 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:20.400 some that are boring and mundane. All of them are 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.760 equally viable at this point, cly, I mean, unfortunately, given 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.159 the information that we have, everything is kind of on 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.479 the same playing field, it, um So. One of the 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.080 first fairly mundane theories is that she was a cancer 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.439 patient that had gone into relapse and was just tired 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.600 of fighting. Um It would help explain the do not 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.960 resuss tape um. And people get there from the fact 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.240 that in the picture of her her hair is very short, 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.200 and they say that it reminds them of somebody who 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.760 had gone through chemo on their hair was growing back. 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:57.720 I don't put a lot of stock into that theory. 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.479 A woman of her age, from the time that she 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.000 grew up in a lot of older women cut their 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:07.600 hair short like that, especially of that age. It's too 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.680 bad that I don't know how thorough the autopsy was. 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.600 He would think that there was no autopsy. I thought 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.200 there was because I I had read that in Virginia 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.119 it's required and when there's a suicide, it's required to 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.680 have a suicide. Everything that I found said that they 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.560 honored her request for no autopsy. All I know, I 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.199 haven't done my research on like the Virginia law on 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.679 autopsies and suicide, but as far as I know, and 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.840 as far as everybody on the internet talking about this 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:39.560 nose and according to the official report, they honored her 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:45.760 no no requests. Well that's interesting, which makes you know 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.080 this is a great It's a great segue into one 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:49.760 of the other theories that there is, is that this 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.240 was actually a murder. Well that's no, actually, that's that's 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.280 actually what I was thinking, yeah, is that it was 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.920 a murder. Wait, wait, flesh this out a little bit 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.400 for me. Yeah, So, I mean, what at our way 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.800 to get away with murder? Right? You take somebody out 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:08.879 into like this kind of weird environment, Okay, and I 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.439 don't know, or maybe she was meeting somebody or maybe 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.720 you know. There's a lot of different scenarios in which 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.600 this plays out, but essentially what happens is you kill 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:21.000 this woman somehow, and then you leave a hundred dollars 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.840 behind with a note that says, oh, by the way, 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.240 don't perform an autopsy, and then you leave and they 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:29.800 don't perform an autopsy and you get always scot free. 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.520 Maybe you poison or maybe you injected her with poison 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.879 and then fed booze to her and vallium before she 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.600 actually died. She dies, you wrap a thing around her head, 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.080 but I don't know, well, you know, that's I was 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.040 I was just going to say, it's more plausible to 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.760 me to believe that somebody could give her booze and 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.320 valium and maybe even mix the volume in with the boost, 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.360 so she's not even aware that she's taking valium. And 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:58.000 then when she passes out or goes to sleep because 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:00.320 of that, you just lay her out nicely and tie 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.000 the plastic bag over her head and she suffocates. And 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.160 to me, that's more plausible than somebody getting really high 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.960 on valuable booze and then wrapping a plastic bag around 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.760 their own head. That's very nefarious. I would say, why 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:20.000 do you always go there? Why is this m you're 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.680 all about? Murders? Doesn't make me feel very comfortable. No, No, 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.919 I'm sad that I'm the one sitting next to him today. 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.159 So and and then just for the fun of it, 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:30.879 of course you can. You can plant a lot of 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:35.480 mysterious clues around like a Jeff Foxworthy tape. Okay, you're 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.639 just like feeding into all of my theories today. It's fine. 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.240 So that's actually one of the other theory that this 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:47.240 woman was really like an amateur sleuth herself decided she 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.760 didn't want to live anymore for whatever reason. None of 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:53.080 the thing about all these theories that none of them 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.680 are like really well flushed out, like all of them are. 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.200 These are just people making coming up with their own 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.480 ideas and they just kind of pertain to like one 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:06.439 aspect that nothing explains the whole thing. Well, none of 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:10.320 this stuff is understand So the theory is that she 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.160 was an amateur sleuth of some kind or knew somebody 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:17.160 who was an amateur sleuth or whatever, and decided, I'm 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:20.800 going to kill myself and totally plant a lot of 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:24.080 weird stuff around me, and it's gonna you know, or 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.160 it's going to be clues. Maybe it was like all 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.240 part of an elaborate something. The person who was supposed 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:31.760 to get the message got the message right. And I 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.080 mean we've we've kind of talked about ideas like this 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:38.359 before with them like the in Australia. Yeah, that like 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:42.040 may have faked a UFO sighting because he was uf enthusiasts. 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:47.320 You know. I think there are people like this certainly 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.240 in life. Who knows if that's what this is, Like 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:55.320 Comin Shoot or whatever his name was. I'm sure he was. Yeah, yeah, 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.800 that's right, you do think that about it. But yeah, 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:01.560 the up I have with this theory is it's that 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:05.000 if I were so inclined and I wanted to kill myself, 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:07.080 what I would do is that would leave a lot 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.440 of really strange clues, and I would kill myself, but 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:13.280 I would make it look like murder, and then my 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:15.600 murder would be an enduring mystery, and my name would 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:17.040 be attached to it, so my name would be all 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:19.120 over the internet. I wouldn't just be John Doe, right, 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:21.080 So that was I guess. One of the other things 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.480 that people were talking about, or at least that I 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:26.719 think with this whole thing, is that if you're just 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:31.120 leaving a fun mystery behind, why hide your identity? Why 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:33.720 not take credit for it? Because the part of the 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:35.600 mystery is that you don't know who she is. If 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.560 they knew who she was, but she left all these 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:42.560 strange things behind. Why did she have the Christmas Tree? 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:46.639