Speaker 1: We don't see the world as it is. We see
Speaker 1: the world as we are. Welcome to the one you feed.
Speaker 1: Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the
Speaker 1: thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or
Speaker 1: you are what you think ring true. And yet for
Speaker 1: many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life
Speaker 1: worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep
Speaker 1: themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their
Speaker 1: good wolf, what him to the show. Our guest this
Speaker 1: week is Dan Millman, former World championshipnist and the author
Speaker 1: of thirteen books, including The Way of the Peaceful Warrior,
Speaker 1: which was made into a feature film starring Nick Nolty.
Speaker 1: His most recent book, written with his daughter Sierra, is
Speaker 1: called The Creative Compass, Writing Your Way from Inspiration to Publication,
Speaker 1: and is available in bookstores everywhere. You can find more
Speaker 1: information on Dan and this episode and our show notes
Speaker 1: at one you Feed dot net slash Dan. Hi, Dan,
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us today. Hi aren't glad to be
Speaker 1: here with you now. I'm I'm very excited to have you.
Speaker 1: I read The Way the Peaceful Warrior probably a long
Speaker 1: time ago. I'm I'm older than I think, I guess,
Speaker 1: but it's probably been at least five years ago, and
Speaker 1: it was it was probably the first book I'd say
Speaker 1: that exposed me to a lot of ideas that you
Speaker 1: know that are relatively commonplace now, but but for me
Speaker 1: at that time, it was it was pretty eye open.
Speaker 1: And so I thank you for that book. Well you've
Speaker 1: bet so. Our our podcast is called The One You
Speaker 1: Feed and it's based on the Old parable where there
Speaker 1: is a Cherokee grandfather who is talking to his grandson
Speaker 1: and he says, uh, in life, there's a battle always
Speaker 1: going on inside of us. It's it's between two wolves.
Speaker 1: One is a good wolf who represents kindness and love
Speaker 1: and joy, and the other is a bad wolf, which
Speaker 1: represents hate and sorrow and and any other negative thing
Speaker 1: you want to you want to add. And the grandson
Speaker 1: looks at his grandfather and says, well, which one wins
Speaker 1: and the the grandfather says the one that you feed.
Speaker 1: That's sort of the theme of our podcast. So I'd
Speaker 1: like to start off by just asking you sort of
Speaker 1: how does that parable relate to you, your life, your work,
Speaker 1: and and kind of what does it mean to you.
Speaker 1: I could probably write a lat long essay on that topic.
Speaker 1: It's a wonderful parable. It applies to so much. What
Speaker 1: comes to mind first is the idea that at the
Speaker 1: end of our day, when we are about to go
Speaker 1: retire for the night, or even when we get up
Speaker 1: in the morning, we have a choice. If we want
Speaker 1: to look at polarities. We can sit down and write
Speaker 1: all the lousy things that happened to us that day,
Speaker 1: the person who cut us off in traffic, someone who
Speaker 1: wasn't fair, someone who has said an unkind word. Or
Speaker 1: we can count our blessings and this is obvious, but
Speaker 1: very few of us practice it. We can sit down
Speaker 1: and think about the good things that happened today, to
Speaker 1: sort back through our day about them, the beautiful sunrise
Speaker 1: we saw, or the good breakfast we had, or a
Speaker 1: friend we met we didn't expect to see, and that
Speaker 1: will give us, you know, That's how we feed one
Speaker 1: will for the other. That will give us a perceptual
Speaker 1: filter through which we look at our world, and we'll
Speaker 1: tell ourselves, I want to remember what good's going to
Speaker 1: happen to me today. I have to make a note
Speaker 1: of that, or boy, I'm gonna remember the bad things
Speaker 1: that happened. So that is one clear parallel. It's probably
Speaker 1: not something original. I'm sure you've heard different versions of
Speaker 1: it before, but it did come to mind when you
Speaker 1: mentioned which wolf do you want to feed? Because we
Speaker 1: don't see the world as it is. We see the
Speaker 1: world as we are. We all see the world through
Speaker 1: a perceptual filter based on our associations, beliefs, opinions, meanings, um.
Speaker 1: And it's like a muddy window, distorted window. And part
Speaker 1: of what we call spiritual work, personal growth work, psychological
Speaker 1: work involves noticing that the window is there, first of all,
Speaker 1: that we're not seeing the world that as it is,
Speaker 1: and we begin to consider how we might clean that window,
Speaker 1: not to make it pink or any pretty colors, but
Speaker 1: actually just to clear it so we see life as
Speaker 1: it is. So those are the first thoughts that came
Speaker 1: up to I hope that it wasn't too long a monologue. No,
Speaker 1: it was great, and that is uh, you know, that's
Speaker 1: a that's a theme. We certainly that that keeps showing
Speaker 1: up in in you know, in the conversations we're having.
Speaker 1: We we had an interview last night with a gentleman
Speaker 1: named Oliver Berkman who wrote a really interesting book called, uh,
Speaker 1: the Antidote Positive or Happiness for People who Hate Positive Thinking.
Speaker 1: But we spent a lot of time talking about exactly
Speaker 1: sort of that. It's such a fundamental step when you
Speaker 1: can recognize that your thoughts are just your thoughts. They're
Speaker 1: not they're not necessarily accurate, they're not necessarily a real
Speaker 1: reflection of the world, and you have some degree of
Speaker 1: ability to choose which ones, Uh, you focus on. One
Speaker 1: of the things I've always really liked about your work
Speaker 1: and um, and some of the talks I've seen you
Speaker 1: give is you talk a lot about though however, that yes,
Speaker 1: thought is important. UM. Yeah, maybe we've got some degree
Speaker 1: of of where we focus our attention, but the thoughts
Speaker 1: are gonna come to us and of all sorts, and
Speaker 1: that what really matters is kind of what you do,
Speaker 1: the action that you take. Can we talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about that sure, and I'd like to give credit
Speaker 1: where credit is due. I've had different mentors in my life.
Speaker 1: I didn't make this up. It was actually a revelation
Speaker 1: that came to me through the work of um, a
Speaker 1: humble man. He's still alive. His name is David K. Reynolds,
Speaker 1: and he wrote a book called Constructive Living, and he
Speaker 1: pointed out the teachings of a Japanese psychiatrist named Showma Morita.
Speaker 1: Morita had a lot of wisdom. For example, once he said,
Speaker 1: when running up a hill, it's okay to give up
Speaker 1: as many times as you want, as long as your
Speaker 1: feet keep moving. In other words, we can give up inside.
Speaker 1: We can say I can't, I can't do this, I
Speaker 1: have doubts, I'm unable to do it. All this stuff's
Speaker 1: going on in our heads. Um as long as our
Speaker 1: feet keep moving. So this is the focused on what
Speaker 1: we do. And Marita had three guidelines for living wisely
Speaker 1: and well. One was except whatever thoughts or feelings you
Speaker 1: have at the moment as natural to you. You don't
Speaker 1: have to fix them, change them, obey them, run from them,
Speaker 1: resist them, just accept them as natural to you. They're
Speaker 1: like weather, weather passing through the second thing is focused
Speaker 1: on a constructive goal in your life. What do you
Speaker 1: want to accomplish right now? For example, we have a
Speaker 1: goal right now that we're all focusing on, and then
Speaker 1: the third guidelines do what needs to be done in
Speaker 1: line with your goal. It's a very practical way to
Speaker 1: function in life, despite the storms of emotion and thought
Speaker 1: that led Mark Twain to say, I've had many troubles
Speaker 1: in my life, most of which never happened. We sometimes
Speaker 1: think we have to be in the mood uh to
Speaker 1: do something, and and uh that we have to feel
Speaker 1: like doing something and that and that that poses a
Speaker 1: real challenge versus just doing something. Do you have any
Speaker 1: insight for people on how when they're sort of in
Speaker 1: that stuck spot where where everything inside of him is
Speaker 1: sort of you know, I guess procrastination, right, I don't
Speaker 1: feel like it. I don't want to do this for
Speaker 1: actually just getting moving. Well, first, yes I do. But
Speaker 1: first let me underscore what you just said. Um, because
Speaker 1: we're look, most of us grew up with role models
Speaker 1: that look a lot like a soap opera. We have
Speaker 1: a feeling or thought we acted out as if compelled,
Speaker 1: as if that feeling or thought compelled us to act
Speaker 1: it out. We get angry, we say an angry word,
Speaker 1: or we strike out at somebody. Uh. That's what you
Speaker 1: see when you turn to a soap opera on TV,
Speaker 1: people having a feeling or thought and acting it out. Boom,
Speaker 1: just like that, and the consequences are are messy. So
Speaker 1: I often remind people to progress toward our goals and
Speaker 1: turn what we know into what we actually do. There
Speaker 1: are two basic methods to do that. The first one
Speaker 1: I like to recite to you now, which is very
Speaker 1: popular most people. This is what they pursue when they're
Speaker 1: interested in personal and psychological growth. So here's what you
Speaker 1: can do to turn what you know into what you do.
Speaker 1: Find a way to quiet the mind, create empowering beliefs,
Speaker 1: raise your self esteem, and practice positive self talk to
Speaker 1: find your focus, affirm your power, and free your emotions.
Speaker 1: To visualize positive outcomes so that you can develop the
Speaker 1: confidence to generate the courage, to find the determination, to
Speaker 1: make the commitment to feel sufficiently motivated to do whatever
Speaker 1: it is you need to do. The second method, which
Speaker 1: I recommend, is you can just do it. Because life
Speaker 1: is always going to come down to are you going
Speaker 1: to do it or not. Now people say, well, that's
Speaker 1: fine and just do it. But how can I get
Speaker 1: the courage to just do it? How can I find
Speaker 1: the confidence? How can I get the motivation? And I
Speaker 1: go back to you can be not motivated. How many
Speaker 1: of us have taken out the trash or gone to
Speaker 1: school or gone to work when we weren't motivated to
Speaker 1: do it. We we did it. We just did it.
Speaker 1: And that is what life comes down to. And that's
Speaker 1: what makes the difference. Now you may see it, but
Speaker 1: give us a little help. Come on, Dan, My listeners
Speaker 1: would still like to know if there's an easier way,
Speaker 1: And I would suggest in principle that it's fine a
Speaker 1: dream big, but best to start small and then connect
Speaker 1: the dots. So if someone wants to exercise every day,
Speaker 1: I recommend they do one jumping jack every morning at
Speaker 1: the same time. At least they have their exercise period defined.
Speaker 1: Now they can double their work out by doing two
Speaker 1: jumping jacks the next month. So start small. If they
Speaker 1: want to learn to meditate, meditate every day for fifteen seconds,
Speaker 1: but at least you're doing it every day. Get your
Speaker 1: foot in the door. Rather than a big resolution, I'm
Speaker 1: going to the gym for an hour and a half
Speaker 1: to work out. You know, for twenty eight years, I've
Speaker 1: done a workout myself every day, no matter where I've
Speaker 1: been in the world. Um some odd places too. It's
Speaker 1: a four minute what I call the Peaceful Warrior Workout,
Speaker 1: and I that's available on you know, there's a course
Speaker 1: use people pay whatever they want for it, a dollar,
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars whatever in between. But the point is
Speaker 1: there's a course with video on my website where people
Speaker 1: can learn the Peaceful Warrior Workout. But that's one example
Speaker 1: of simple is powerful because we're more likely to do it.
Speaker 1: So that is how in terms of just doing it,
Speaker 1: Just start small. Don't radically change your diet because people
Speaker 1: do then they go back. Just eat a little less
Speaker 1: of what's bad for you, a little more what's good
Speaker 1: for you. Just start small and connect the dots. Get
Speaker 1: get some momentum going, get some positive, positive progress, and
Speaker 1: and build from there. Yeah you said somewhere. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's something I say a lot too, which is a
Speaker 1: little of something is better than a lot of nothing.
Speaker 1: I find myself. I like to go to boxing um
Speaker 1: and I go to you know, the class is half over,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm still going, you know, because half of
Speaker 1: this class is better than none of this class, which
Speaker 1: is which is a big change from a all or
Speaker 1: nothing mentality that that I certainly in the past would
Speaker 1: bring to things. And I think a lot of people do.
Speaker 1: If if I can't do this exactly right, or I
Speaker 1: can't fully commit to this, or I can't you know,
Speaker 1: nothing happens, and and uh, you know, little steps make
Speaker 1: a make a big difference. As you say, you know,
Speaker 1: it's funny. I was in doing a consolation a session
Speaker 1: of consultation yesterday with someone and it came down to
Speaker 1: that one thing that was really affecting his life. For him,
Speaker 1: it was all or nothing. I'm good or I'm bad.
Speaker 1: If I'm not, if I'm not pure and the perfect
Speaker 1: peaceful warrior, then I'm falling off the path. And he
Speaker 1: was caught up in this all or nothing mentality, and
Speaker 1: so many of us can be. So that's why these shades.
Speaker 1: To start to see the shades and a little bit better,
Speaker 1: that's so important. You know. One of the things that
Speaker 1: is I like about about your work, and a lot
Speaker 1: of times it's sort of similar to you know, about
Speaker 1: your your thoughts as also you say, you know, knowledge
Speaker 1: alone does not suffice, it has no heart, or you
Speaker 1: know elsewhere you say that no amount of knowledge will
Speaker 1: nourish or sustain your spirit. Uh so it's you know, you're, you're,
Speaker 1: you're describing sort of the same thing. How do we
Speaker 1: that knowing this stuff is great? But you know, if
Speaker 1: I if I had meditated, uh you know, ten minutes
Speaker 1: for every hour I had read about meditating, I probably
Speaker 1: would be far better off. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people fall into that camp. It's a lot easier
Speaker 1: to sit on the couch eating cheese it's reading about
Speaker 1: spiritual growth than it is to do some of the work. Well,
Speaker 1: many of us know all the terms and the jargon.
Speaker 1: We can talk about. The chocolate is in all the
Speaker 1: sophisticated ideas. But you're right, you know that little story
Speaker 1: about the young scholar was being pulled across a raging
Speaker 1: river in India by a brave ferryman, and they were
Speaker 1: being going across gradually this river, and the young scholar
Speaker 1: was telling the the ferryman all the things he'd studied
Speaker 1: and the degrees he'd earned. And the ferryman said, I
Speaker 1: was very impressive hearing this but in all your studies,
Speaker 1: did you ever learn to swim? And the young scholars said,
Speaker 1: well no, he said, that's too bad, because this rapt
Speaker 1: is sinking. So yes, practice practice daily life is a practice.
Speaker 1: It's a form of spiritual weightlifting. And it's not about
Speaker 1: succeeding every day and everything everything work out right. It's
Speaker 1: about how can we grow stronger. That's why St. Augustine said,
Speaker 1: I pray not for a lighter load, but for stronger shoulders.
Speaker 1: Several of your books talk about UM and reference sort
Speaker 1: of life purpose. Can you share a little bit about UM,
Speaker 1: what that means to you and and sort of where
Speaker 1: you go in your in your work on that area.
Speaker 1: When I do right and it is a central interest
Speaker 1: of mine. UM. I like where you're leading, But I'd
Speaker 1: like to jump back just for a moment first, because
Speaker 1: we started out with the parable of the two wolves,
Speaker 1: the good wolf and the bad wolf, and I'd like
Speaker 1: to offer it maybe a little more original perspective than
Speaker 1: the example I gave. I think it's an important one
Speaker 1: about uh, you know, sorting for blessings or what happened negatively,
Speaker 1: But there is another more original approach. The idea of
Speaker 1: that there's no actually good or bad. You know, Roomy
Speaker 1: said out beyond wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field.
Speaker 1: I'll meet you there um. And of course what he
Speaker 1: meant was there's a way to look at life, not
Speaker 1: from a moralistic view of good or bad ad, but
Speaker 1: of action and consequences. So we don't make moral judgments.
Speaker 1: That was a bad thing. People make the best choice
Speaker 1: they can't they see at the time. Their friends may say,
Speaker 1: how can you make this choice? But to them it's
Speaker 1: the only choice they have are the best one they
Speaker 1: have available. So I've stopped really judging whether someone's good
Speaker 1: or bad, right or wrong, moral or not. But I
Speaker 1: do point out that certain actions may be more likely
Speaker 1: to lead to certain consequences. And that's one definition of wisdom,
Speaker 1: being able to get some some appreciate, some sight into
Speaker 1: the potential consequences of our actions, and that's more likely
Speaker 1: to guide our lives. And by the way that the
Speaker 1: brain with two sides of the brain, they're not just
Speaker 1: two wolves inside of us, but there are also these
Speaker 1: polarized characters inside of us. We each of us have
Speaker 1: the puritan and the heathenist, someone who's practices self self
Speaker 1: denial and someone who practices self indulgence, and a lot
Speaker 1: of our lives balancing those two and finding out when
Speaker 1: it's appropriate to celebrate and expand into life and be
Speaker 1: more of a hedonist than other times, maybe that puritan being,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe leaner and following the rules that may
Speaker 1: be more useful as well. We have inside of us
Speaker 1: a callous person, and it's in a very sentimental person.
Speaker 1: And again there are moments where each is useful. And
Speaker 1: there we also have inside of us a peacock and
Speaker 1: a chicken. The peacock is very very They have a
Speaker 1: sense of self respect and and dignity, whereas the chicken
Speaker 1: lack of self respect. But there are times even that
Speaker 1: is appropriate those different roles to play in life. So
Speaker 1: those wolves just represent one aspect of our being. And
Speaker 1: I love the story and and that's why I wanted
Speaker 1: to just relate to it um in that way. And
Speaker 1: that's one of the things I've always liked about at
Speaker 1: least some of the Buddhist readings I've done, is that
Speaker 1: it moves away from good bad moral immoral talks about
Speaker 1: things that are skillful and unskillful, and that's a that's
Speaker 1: a term that resonates a lot more. But describing a
Speaker 1: skillful and unskillful wolf takes the teeth out of the analogy.
Speaker 1: So to speak well in a way, does you know
Speaker 1: we want we want the drama because when we tell
Speaker 1: the story, what makes a good story is dramatic conflict. Um.
Speaker 1: If if you have a story that has no conflict,
Speaker 1: people just walking here and then doing this and doing that,
Speaker 1: as a writer, it makes there's no story there, there's
Speaker 1: no there's it doesn't pull you in. So the idea
Speaker 1: of a good wolf and battle up a bad wolf
Speaker 1: for the sake of the analogy, I think it's still appropriate.
Speaker 1: But I did want to comment upon the idea of
Speaker 1: that within us there. Yeah, I like skillful or less skillful.
Speaker 1: That's nice, nice idea. Okay, life purpose okay, well, Robert
Speaker 1: Byrne the quote master said the purpose of life is
Speaker 1: a life of purpose, and I already indicated in Morita's
Speaker 1: advice to to know your purpose and then do what
Speaker 1: needs to be done. Um. You know in the Peaceful
Speaker 1: Warrior movie, some of your listeners may have seen that
Speaker 1: movie with Nick Nolty. Um, the character, my character Dan says,
Speaker 1: you know, he comes to a realization that what makes
Speaker 1: us happy is the journey, not just the destination. And
Speaker 1: there may be a certain wisdom to that, because most
Speaker 1: of our life is spent on the journey, not reaching
Speaker 1: the destination. And it's useful psychologically if you're going up
Speaker 1: a mountain, not to feel like a failure because you
Speaker 1: haven't reached the top, but to enjoy the journey on
Speaker 1: the way. Okay, that's fine. But the idea that it's
Speaker 1: it's just about the journey and the desky the journey,
Speaker 1: excuse me, um, that doesn't make sense in a way,
Speaker 1: because without a destination in mind, there is no journey.
Speaker 1: If we're at point A, we have to have a
Speaker 1: point B. And we're hardwired gold seekers anyway. Look at
Speaker 1: a young baby. We have a five month old granddaughter now,
Speaker 1: little beauty, and she she's not yet crawling, but when
Speaker 1: she starts, I can promise you, if she sees something
Speaker 1: she wants, she's gonna be crawling purposefully towards that object. Um.
Speaker 1: And so even when we're babies, were always moving towards
Speaker 1: some goal, something we want. So I think the idea
Speaker 1: of having a purpose um is quite important. One of
Speaker 1: my books is called The Four Purposes of Life, and Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I had some friends come up to me
Speaker 1: when I was writing that book and they said, Dan,
Speaker 1: I know the purpose of life. It's learning to love.
Speaker 1: You know, whatever the question, love is the answer. And
Speaker 1: I couldn't argue with that. It sounds very good to me.
Speaker 1: But then another friend said, no, no, we all know
Speaker 1: the purpose of life is is illumination, God, realization, unity,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, we want to describe it, enlightenment. And
Speaker 1: then another friend said, yeah, but that's all kind of philosophy.
Speaker 1: Those are mental ideas. We know our biological purpose is
Speaker 1: to reproduce and you know, keep the species going. And
Speaker 1: another friend said, but there are as many purposes as
Speaker 1: there are people. Um, And again all those have a
Speaker 1: lot of wisdom. But if we look at our lives
Speaker 1: through the spectrum of well, just like we can look
Speaker 1: at the year and divide the year into four seasons,
Speaker 1: and just as we can divide the points on a
Speaker 1: compass into four primary directions. By looking at our lives
Speaker 1: from the filter of four purposes, it gives it our
Speaker 1: lives a sense of order and structure. We have a
Speaker 1: context instead of just waking up here on planet Earth
Speaker 1: wondering what is this about? So in the book, I
Speaker 1: go into the four purposes, which I hate to even
Speaker 1: summarize them because people think, oh, I've heard that already,
Speaker 1: but no they haven't, not really. Um. The first is
Speaker 1: learning life's lessons. You know, daily life is a school,
Speaker 1: a perfect divine school, where lessons repeat themselves until we
Speaker 1: learn them. And the second purpose, uh is finding our
Speaker 1: career and calling and noticing the difference between a career
Speaker 1: and a calling and what that's about. And the third
Speaker 1: purpose has to do with another book I wrote called
Speaker 1: The Life You Were Born to Live, which helps us
Speaker 1: to find our life path, a certain pattern we're here
Speaker 1: to work out in this life. And the fourth purpose
Speaker 1: maybe the most important one of all, because it tied
Speaker 1: brings them all down to earth, which is our purpose
Speaker 1: arising in this moment. We may not know our cosmic purpose,
Speaker 1: but we can know our purpose right in this moment.
Speaker 1: You know yours right now? You you write you and
Speaker 1: Chris do I do? It's very clear to us. So
Speaker 1: the more we focus on our purpose in this moment,
Speaker 1: it could be said, whatever the question now is the
Speaker 1: answer you said? There we talked about sort of the
Speaker 1: life as a school uh, and and lessons to learn
Speaker 1: could you give us just a couple of those lessons
Speaker 1: and and also elaborate on something I've heard you say,
Speaker 1: which is that, uh, the lessons get harder until you
Speaker 1: learn them, which I think is a is interesting if
Speaker 1: I apply that to certain areas in my life that
Speaker 1: you might say are challenging, is you know, are they
Speaker 1: getting more challenging because there's something that you know that
Speaker 1: I'm not learning. Well, if we don't learn the easy lessons,
Speaker 1: they they tend to get more dramatic to get our attention.
Speaker 1: So that's why I say it's a perfect school. Um. Yes,
Speaker 1: If someone might say, okay, find an Yeah, the idea
Speaker 1: makes sense to me that life is a kind of school.
Speaker 1: And you know, I know more than I did. I
Speaker 1: understand I better perspective them when I was fourteen years old.
Speaker 1: But if life is a school, what courses do we
Speaker 1: have to pass in order to graduate? And that's a
Speaker 1: fair question, And as it turns out from what I've seen,
Speaker 1: I would propose that there are twelve different courses every
Speaker 1: one of us is already working on through our relationships,
Speaker 1: the work we do, health and physical issues, through the
Speaker 1: challenges of everyday life. We're gradually starting to see the
Speaker 1: those twelve areas and essentially to recite them very briefly.
Speaker 1: And by the way, there is an online another online
Speaker 1: course at my website called Master the Path of the
Speaker 1: Peaceful Warrior, which goes through all these twelve areas. Each
Speaker 1: week people get a new lesson on each of these
Speaker 1: and they are in a list discovering our worth, which
Speaker 1: tends to help us avoid self sabotage. The second UH
Speaker 1: class we're here to to learn about in daily life
Speaker 1: is reclaiming our will and learning that what that's about.
Speaker 1: The third is energizing our body, major element for many people,
Speaker 1: and those form the foundation for all that follow including
Speaker 1: managing our money, taming our mind, and I have a
Speaker 1: very different take than the traditional, say Buddhistic approach um.
Speaker 1: The six area is trusting our intuition, which really is
Speaker 1: about balancing our brains, because we tend to be left
Speaker 1: brain heavy in our culture and we need to start
Speaker 1: to trust our intuition and feel our ways since our
Speaker 1: way in life as well. As a boxer, you know
Speaker 1: that you can't think what's going to happen, you know,
Speaker 1: Mike Tyson said, first you make a plan, then you
Speaker 1: get hit, and then The last six courses are accept
Speaker 1: our emotions, face our fears, Illuminate our shadow, which is
Speaker 1: about self knowledge. Then comes embrace our sexuality, then awaken
Speaker 1: our heart, and the final one is serve our world,
Speaker 1: which brings all of them full circle. Ye. So, if
Speaker 1: life is a school, and uh, you know those are
Speaker 1: the classes, what is graduation? Is there? Graduation? Is there
Speaker 1: a in your sense of reason behind Uh? You know,
Speaker 1: I'm teaching my son to drive, and you know the
Speaker 1: reason is so that he will be successful on the
Speaker 1: road and he can drive himself around. Do you does
Speaker 1: your work go into why? Or is that really? Is
Speaker 1: that more sort of life purpose? And everybody has to
Speaker 1: figure out. Well, whenever anybody asked me either or question,
Speaker 1: I usually answer both. Uh. But but I'd have to
Speaker 1: say that, I mean, you're asking a very fundamental question
Speaker 1: in the philosophical sense of what does graduation represent? Of course,
Speaker 1: I'm drawing an analogy, and no analogy is exact um
Speaker 1: And in some traditions, Look, we live in two worlds.
Speaker 1: We live in a conventional world of daily life, doing
Speaker 1: the duties and things we do, and playing our roles
Speaker 1: in everyday life. But there is a transcendental realm as
Speaker 1: well that many of the writers and teachers, from the
Speaker 1: Taoist masters to the Buddhist to the Tibetan masters, um
Speaker 1: to people like Phoraux Emerson, the Trends, Cidentalist writers Um
Speaker 1: Twang Su Allowed, to the Greeks and Romans Epictetis, Plato, Socrates,
Speaker 1: they were all pointing towards the transcendent. And people move
Speaker 1: to religion when they are genuinely pulled into and not
Speaker 1: just raised in a particular religion, but when they gravitate
Speaker 1: toward a religion or spiritual practice. Its reflects a yearning
Speaker 1: for the transcendent to not rise above, but to see
Speaker 1: through and completely surrendered to the world, but to start
Speaker 1: to see the divine realm shining through that sense of okayness,
Speaker 1: as as a profound reminder that it is all right,
Speaker 1: that wherever we step, the path appears beneath our feet.
Speaker 1: And each of these realms has its own truths. For example,
Speaker 1: in the conventional world, death is absolutely real. We've seen it.
Speaker 1: I've seen my father die. I know before and after um,
Speaker 1: and we grieve those we lose, depending on how old
Speaker 1: they are and so on. UM. In the conventional world,
Speaker 1: we are separate individuated beings. If I bang my toe,
Speaker 1: it doesn't hurt you unless you're highly empathic. Um. And
Speaker 1: if I have a feeling or a thought, you probably
Speaker 1: don't have the same one at the same time. So emotionally, mentally,
Speaker 1: and physically we're separate individuated beings. UM. We could also
Speaker 1: say that there are that accidents happen in the conventional world,
Speaker 1: we knock a glass of liquid over because we're not
Speaker 1: paying attention. But from a transcendental view, there are no accidents,
Speaker 1: only lessons. From a transcendental view, we are all one
Speaker 1: because we're the same consciousness or awareness shining through all
Speaker 1: these different eyes. And from a transcendental view, death is
Speaker 1: an illusion because who we are was never born and
Speaker 1: never dies, which is pure awareness or consciousness. Now, saying
Speaker 1: these words doesn't make it true that the challenge is
Speaker 1: realizing it, realizing it as a living truth where it
Speaker 1: penetrates us and often we burst out with laughter when
Speaker 1: we get the joke and the punchline to the cosmic joke.
Speaker 1: You know. So these are two realms in which we live,
Speaker 1: and that's important to understand when we talk about what
Speaker 1: does graduation mean? So from a conventional vir graduation is
Speaker 1: maybe success, a sense of fulfillment, functioning well in life,
Speaker 1: feeling happy as a default mode, even though all kinds
Speaker 1: of emotions come and go naturally. Um. That represents a
Speaker 1: full and mature human being. But from a transcendental view,
Speaker 1: graduation is absolute, nothing less than uh realization, the complete
Speaker 1: transcendence of the usual beliefs, thoughts, and ideas that that
Speaker 1: creates suffering and attachment and clinging and resistance. But talking
Speaker 1: about it is one thing, as you've pointed out, and
Speaker 1: living it and realizing it is another. Some people use
Speaker 1: psychotropic substances to get a preview of coming attractions and others,
Speaker 1: and that's that's fine for those who of that path.
Speaker 1: I've never recommended drugs as recreational activities, but as a
Speaker 1: sacred practice it can be extremely useful, depending on the person,
Speaker 1: the place, and the time. UM. But others do spiritual
Speaker 1: practices and contemplate and meditate, do inner work to clear
Speaker 1: what's in the way of that obvious truth that's right
Speaker 1: in front of our nose. And I think that's it's
Speaker 1: interesting that you know, I've I've you know, you've said,
Speaker 1: and a lot of other people have said that sort
Speaker 1: of even once you should you get far enough down
Speaker 1: the road or or or uh, grasp that transcendental truth
Speaker 1: that life is still life. Right after that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's sort of uh, you know, before enlightenment chopwood carry water.
Speaker 1: After enlightenment chopwood carry water. I think you have a
Speaker 1: good story in the pieceful Warrior, uh, to some degree
Speaker 1: about that. So it sounds like what you're saying is
Speaker 1: even with that that full realization, uh, you still have this,
Speaker 1: you still remain in this other realm exactly. H And again,
Speaker 1: conventionally speaking, enlightenment makes almost no difference. You might feel
Speaker 1: a bit less stress, you might be a little more relaxed,
Speaker 1: breathe a little deeper, smile a bit more, have a
Speaker 1: good sense of humor, not take yourself as seriously. But
Speaker 1: except for those qualities, it's not visible. It's not obvious.
Speaker 1: People think someone is going to be shining and glowing
Speaker 1: and have mysterious powers. Now, it doesn't make much of
Speaker 1: a difference conventionally speaking. Transcendently speaking, everything changes. It makes
Speaker 1: all the difference in the world, And those who have
Speaker 1: had a glimpse of it say this is the most
Speaker 1: important thing in life, period. But On the other hand,
Speaker 1: you talk about a path, we tend to picture things
Speaker 1: in a journey. We're here, we want to be there,
Speaker 1: but the seeking only reinforces the sense of dilemma that
Speaker 1: set us seeking in the first place. In truth, there
Speaker 1: is no journey. It's a journey without distance, coming back
Speaker 1: to exactly who we are right now. The simplicity of
Speaker 1: it great. Do you want to spend a minute and
Speaker 1: talk about the your your latest book that you wrote
Speaker 1: with your daughter. I'd love to mention it. It's been
Speaker 1: a real labor of love on many levels. Um. The
Speaker 1: creative compass is certainty for writers, any writer, and there
Speaker 1: are many many books on writing. Let me acknowledge that
Speaker 1: the feedback we're getting is this is this covers it all, um,
Speaker 1: and it's just it's not a huge book, but it
Speaker 1: really does touch upon the entire creative journey. So even
Speaker 1: if people aren't don't see themselves as writers, we all right,
Speaker 1: we all tell stories every day, um, and this helps
Speaker 1: us to understand when we create anything, it goes through
Speaker 1: these five stages of dream, draft, develop, refine, and share,
Speaker 1: and the creative compass takes people and guides them like
Speaker 1: a compass along that journey along that whole path, and
Speaker 1: I learned a lot writing the book, um myself, and
Speaker 1: so it's been a know, I think Sierra and I
Speaker 1: combined wrote a better book than either one of us
Speaker 1: could have written on our own. Um, so quite proud
Speaker 1: of it. And we're we're doing book signings and so
Speaker 1: on regarding the book. And there's a link to it
Speaker 1: on the website as well. And she has a wonderful
Speaker 1: blog on our journey together creating this book at her website,
Speaker 1: but I linked to it on my home page. So, um,
Speaker 1: there we are. But thank you for letting me mention that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe just share a second. I mean, I, you know,
Speaker 1: having having kids, I can imagine how wonderful it would
Speaker 1: be to sort of create something like that with your child.
Speaker 1: Can you just share a little bit about what that
Speaker 1: experience was like for you, Not so much what the
Speaker 1: books about, but but what it was like working with
Speaker 1: your daughter. Sure. Um, when she was young, I would
Speaker 1: edit her work. I would review it and make comments
Speaker 1: and suggestions. And then she got older, she her writing
Speaker 1: got stronger and stronger, and she she took in much
Speaker 1: of the advice that I gave her as me and
Speaker 1: that other people gave her and she had a very
Speaker 1: good education UM at Stanford Madill Journalism School, Masters in Journalism,
Speaker 1: what lived in Lebanon, UM and learned, became proficient in speaking,
Speaker 1: reading and writing in Arabic UM five a capit. She
Speaker 1: was again very good educational foundation. And so I've been
Speaker 1: thinking about doing a writing book for some years that
Speaker 1: I might be able to write something original that hadn't
Speaker 1: been said. Um, but it was still kind of a
Speaker 1: vague but sticky idea. It stayed with me for a
Speaker 1: decade and finally I decided, Yeah, it's time to write
Speaker 1: this book. And it was a perfectly natural thing to
Speaker 1: ask Sierra on this particular book if she might collaborate
Speaker 1: with me, and we were both glad that that it
Speaker 1: turned out that way. UM. We have very different processes
Speaker 1: in working, but that can't helped us appreciate the process
Speaker 1: of every writer that it may be different. So that's
Speaker 1: why subtitle is writing your Way from Inspiration to Publication excellent. UM.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything Dan that you feel like we
Speaker 1: should we should cover that's that's relevant to our our
Speaker 1: podcast and our theme that we haven't talked about. You know,
Speaker 1: I feel like we've covered an immense amount of material actually, um,
Speaker 1: and I hope any listeners might want to go back
Speaker 1: and listen to it a second time, because many of
Speaker 1: us we're hearing, we're it's like we're listening, but we're
Speaker 1: not necessarily hearing. We can only hear through perceptual filters
Speaker 1: the way we see the world, and so little by
Speaker 1: little it sinks in. We don't just learn something. We
Speaker 1: learned deeper and then deeper until it penetrates us. So
Speaker 1: there have been some as I think you appreciate some
Speaker 1: seminal ideas we've touched upon today, and you know, they
Speaker 1: say you you teach what you need to learn. I
Speaker 1: must need it, have needed to learn a lot after
Speaker 1: sevento So I think it's important I just leave your
Speaker 1: listeners with the importance of trusting the process of their
Speaker 1: life unfolding and where they are right now and wherever
Speaker 1: we step the path is going to appear beneath our
Speaker 1: feet exactly. And I think we did cover you know,
Speaker 1: I think we've covered about three or four books of
Speaker 1: your material very quickly. So I would also encourage listeners
Speaker 1: to go out and and read some of that stuff
Speaker 1: in in more depth than we'll have all that links
Speaker 1: to all that on our show notes on the site.
Speaker 1: Uh Dan, thank you very much. It's a it's a
Speaker 1: great pleasure to have you on the show. I've been
Speaker 1: like I said, I your work meant a lot to
Speaker 1: me a long time ago, still does and I'm I'm
Speaker 1: really happy we could get you on here. I do
Speaker 1: many interviews, Eric, this is one of my favorites. Thank
Speaker 1: you very much. Well, thank you m You can find
Speaker 1: more information on Dan and this episode in our show
Speaker 1: notes at one you feed dot net slash Dan