1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: The first African American in the United States to become 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: a billionaire was Bob Johnson. He did that by building 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: Black Entertainment Television and subsequently selling the Viacom. He used 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: some of those proceeds to buy the Charlotte Bobcats, becoming 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: the first African American to be a major sporting team owner. 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: He later sold that basketball team to Michael Jordan's. Today, 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: Bob Johnson is involved in a wide variety of business 8 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: ventures across the United States. I sat down with him 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: in Palm Beach to talk about his career and what 10 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: he sees next for himself. So, when you became the 11 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: first African American to be a billionaire, what was that 12 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: like people calling you up telling you how great you are, 13 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: or people calling up asking for money all the time. No, 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: there's nothing like that, David. You know, I had run 15 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: Black Entertainment Television b ET over twenty years until I 16 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: sold it to Viacom. So b ET at sort to 17 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: become a business success story, and as a result of that, 18 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: people begin to see me as sort of uh as 19 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: an entrepreneur. It was doing something pretty pretty good at 20 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: that time. And so by the time I got to 21 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: where it was sold to Viacom, it was sort of 22 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: expected that it would be worth something. So when you 23 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: sold it to Viacom. After that, you then bought the 24 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: Charlotte Bobcats, an NBA team, and you became the first 25 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: African American to be an owner of a major sports 26 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 1: team in our country. So what was that like. Was 27 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: that thrilling to own an NBA team or did you 28 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: really just see it as a business venture. Well, I 29 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: first saw it as the idea of being first. Uh, 30 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: there's been throughout the black business history. If you were 31 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: the first black to do something, you gained visibility, you 32 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: gained notoriety, and you gained access to other people's particularly 33 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: white business people who knew you by your reputation. So 34 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: when there was a team coming up for sale in Charlotte, 35 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: I said, you know, why not be first? I had 36 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: the capital from the sale of b E T to Viacom, 37 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: so I said why not? And UM I decided to 38 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: um make a bid and got a call from some 39 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: of the business people in Charlotte to said we'd like 40 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: you to be the majority owner of the team. Will 41 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: be the minority owners and work with you. And so 42 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: it just seemed to be the right place at the 43 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: right time to do something I thought would be part 44 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: of a strategic approach to being first. So you owned 45 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: the team for about eleven years, and then you sold 46 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: it to a person named Michael Jordan's so, and after 47 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: that you began an effort to build i'll call a 48 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: small business empire. You have investments in many different areas 49 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: private equity, financial services, fashion, lodging, hotels, real estate, and 50 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: my own firm did something with you in private equity 51 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: for a while. So is that what you're trying to 52 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: do now is build a many empire if different areas 53 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: and what are your most important parts of that empire? Well, 54 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: what I did when I sold b ET, I decide 55 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't going to just sit around and do nothing, 56 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: and I decided that one way to sort of build 57 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 1: value for yourself was to take your own knowledge, your 58 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: own strategic vision, and deploy your capital and your brand 59 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: to acquire assets that you could run with very talented 60 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: people to help you do it, obviously, and align yourself 61 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: with people who shared your vision and your culture about 62 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: creating what I call wealth in the black community, uh 63 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: and demonstrating to the broader market that African American talent 64 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: with capital and strategic partners like I did with John 65 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: Malone when I started b ET, could be successful and 66 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: create create value for yourself and create value for the investors. So, Um, 67 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: you've been very involved in dealing with black entrepreneurship and 68 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: black business owners. Do you think today it's easier for 69 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: a black entrepreneur to start a company or No, No, 70 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: more easy than it was twenty years ago or thirty 71 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: years ago. David, I don't think it's necessarily easier. I 72 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: think there's a mindset within the white business community and 73 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: to some extent in the country at large, is that 74 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: this definition of equity and diversity ought to see money flowing, 75 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: capital flowing into black entrepreneurs for investment and operating startups 76 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: of business. It's just not easy. It's just that there's 77 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: a theory that it ought to happen. And I think 78 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: if if it were easy, you would see more Bob 79 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: Johnson's more, Michael George, more Magic Johnson's and Oprah Winfreys 80 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: in the light. So I think it's a little bit 81 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: of a misnomer to say it's easy. It is correct 82 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: to say people think about it more, but do they 83 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: do more that's the problem. So in for the George 84 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: Floyd murder, I thought that many people in the white 85 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: business community said, Okay, we've got to do much more 86 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: in getting blacks and as on the boards senior positions 87 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: in corporate memory. Has that really happened or has you 88 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: just talk about that? Well, David, the sad secret of 89 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: that is companies, white companies have announced that they're gonna 90 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: put millions of dollars into diversity in terms of black 91 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: investment business. But among the people I know, and I 92 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: know a lot of people who would say, hey, I 93 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: just got money from here there in other other places, 94 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: it's really not happening. I saw something in the in 95 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: the media that said there has been something like fifty 96 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: billion dollars of pledges made, but less than five percent 97 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: of that has ever been implemented. And to me, it's 98 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: a real sad story because it's not happening. And I 99 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: would know because no one has called me. Now, I've 100 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: been pretty successful, as you you know. The only thing 101 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: I've done that with, David, and I am most proud 102 00:05:54,680 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: of is the partnership I've created with Vanguard Fidelity and 103 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: a Light to create a four oh one k auto 104 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: portability business called uh part Portability Network whose sole purpose 105 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: is to keep Black Americans reduced cash out of four 106 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: oh one k account by Black Americans and low wage 107 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: workers and whim I mean as Hispanic workers when they 108 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: change jobs. That those two companies, those three companies put 109 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: their commitment to diversity and opportunity and closing the wealth 110 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: gap in a relationship with me. And that's what I 111 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: like in respect. But I can tell you the black 112 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: community entrepreneurs I know are very disappointed with these what 113 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: I call press release announcements with no results. So let's 114 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: talk about your background. Uh, where did you grow up? 115 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 1: I grew up born in hippy Mississippi. If you Mississippi 116 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: is a real small town, you know, one stop signing 117 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: kind of town. What did your parents do? My well, 118 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 1: they were workers. My father all his life was a 119 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: worker in Mississippi. He was a lumber cutting down timber 120 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: in Mississippi and a little bit of farming where he lived. 121 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: And my mother was a school teacher at the you know, 122 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: the small school system in Mississippi. When they migrated up 123 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: north to a small town freeport A hunt them out 124 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: northwest of Chicago, they became factory workers. So you went 125 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: to college where University of Illinois, Champaign, Debanda, And what 126 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: did you study? History? I was a history major throughout 127 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: my home. So what did you want to be. I 128 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: want to be a diplomat. I want to be an 129 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: ambassador diplomat. But what year did you graduate? I graduated 130 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: in sixty eight. And then you went to Woodrow Wilson 131 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: School at Princeton, and that's to do further diplomatic knowledge. 132 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: Had got a degree master's degree in the national affairs 133 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: and again the fascination was was was history and global affairs. 134 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,679 Speaker 1: So you get a degree from Princeton, a graduate degree 135 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: from Princeton, and all of a sudden, the US government 136 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: says we're ready for you to be a diplomat. Or 137 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: what happened? Well, all of a sudden they asked you, 138 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: if you want to go to the Foreign Service, you 139 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: have to take a test, and the test requires you 140 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: to be literate and things that a kid from Hipcuem 141 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: Mississippi through Freeport, Illinois I didn't really knew about. So 142 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: when they had a question, I never get this. They 143 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: asked me a question. One of the questions what is Wedgewood? 144 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: And they said addresser of this, I thought it was 145 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: what it was addressing. It was actually you weren't familiar 146 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: with Wedgwood. So ultimately you came to Washington, though, And 147 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,599 Speaker 1: what did you do when you came to Washington? I 148 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: came to d C with the Princeton Imperor Mater and 149 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: the connections of people who had who are who are 150 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: former Princeton Widgard Wilson graduates, uh, including a good friend 151 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: of Jim Johnson, And so I started making the rounds 152 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: people refer me to this person. I went to Senator 153 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: Mondale's office, I went to Senator Kennedy's office, and everything 154 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: else that this prince prince the mafia sauspeak. And finally, 155 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: somebody after I went to one of the officers referred 156 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: me to CPB, the Corporation Public Broadcasting. Got a job 157 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: of Corporation for Public Broadcasting for a while, changed jobs 158 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: from there and went and worked for the local Urban 159 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: League in Washington, d C. And from there became a 160 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: lobbyist for the Cable Television Trade Association. And that's where 161 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: I met all the guys in the cable industry, Ted Turner, 162 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: but most importantly John Malone. John Malone was your principal 163 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: backer when you wanted to start black entertainment television. Absolutely, John, 164 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: I'll never get this. I was a lobbyist. We were 165 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: trying to deregulate cable. Cable was heavily regulated to protect 166 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: broadcast television on the theory that broadcasts free cable was 167 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: paying and if we didn't protect free television, then everybody 168 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: would have to pay, which was supposedly not good for people. Well, 169 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: so my job was to go up on capital. He'll 170 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: argue for the deregulation of cable so it could compete 171 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: with over the air television. And so I met John 172 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: Malone and he said, Bob, if you ever have an idea, 173 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: why don't you come out to Denver and talk to me. 174 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, John, I'll do it. And that's where 175 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: my idea starting black entertainment television came from. And I 176 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: took John up on his invitation and went out to 177 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: Denver and made my pitch about getting me financing for 178 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: b ET. So John said to me, Bob, here's what 179 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: I'll do. How much you need to start this? I said, 180 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: I need half a million dollars five. He said, Bob, 181 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna buy of your 182 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: company for a hundred and eighty uh and I'm a lone, 183 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: you a three twenty. That's your five thousand and John said, 184 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: under that deal, Bob, you will be eighty percent on 185 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: it and I'll be twenty. Is that a deal? I said, John, 186 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: that's a deal. What Malone didn't know David if he 187 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: reversed to them and said I'll be eighty and Bob 188 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: you will be twenty. I said, John, that's a go. 189 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: He didn't say that. So he kept putting money into 190 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: b et E while I was growing, never put it 191 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: in his equity, put it in his debt, and the 192 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: dad got paid back. And I did asked him, say, John, 193 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: why did you put it in his debt when you 194 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: could have put his equen you all more BT? He said, Bob, 195 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: I always knew you would work harder for yourself than 196 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: you would for me. So John never sold a share 197 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: b et. So when I sold BT to buy account 198 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: for approximately three apes seven three almost three billion dollars, 199 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: John's one eight of equity, of course got paid back, 200 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: netted him over seven hundred million dollars in biacount paper 201 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: because we did a stock for stock deep Well, what 202 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: was the theory behind b ET that African Americans should 203 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: have a cable channel devoted to programs that would be 204 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: appealing to them in particular. Was that what you were 205 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: trying to do? Yeah, Well, the theory was what cable 206 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: was offering to the community, basically diversity because once you 207 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: just put it once, our c A put a satellite 208 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: in the sky that could orbit on a geosynchronous orbit 209 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: that allowed him to send signals all around to every 210 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: cable head in Cable became a competitor for television in 211 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: the big markets, and in order to do that, they 212 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: had to get some big cities who by that time 213 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: in the eighties had black city council members wanted to 214 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: and maybe a black mayor. So while they were offering 215 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: programming to everybody else, you know, whether it's MTV or 216 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: CNN or ESPN, the black city council member was saying, 217 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: you want this franchise, what are you offering from my community? 218 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: And that's where b ET became sort of a must 219 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: carry product to get into cable and the diversity part 220 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: of it grow. But b ET was really an extension 221 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: of what John Johnson did with E any magazine, except 222 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: his was printed and I was video. So how many 223 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: years did you operate p e T before your sold 224 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: to bicom years you sold for roughly three billion dollars 225 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: holding me so, in hindsight, had you held on longer, 226 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: would it be worth more today or were worth less today? 227 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: Because the cable world has changed so much, it would be, 228 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,479 Speaker 1: in my opinion less today because once streaming came along 229 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: and the technology allowed people to have streaming wherever, they 230 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: could carry content on your phone, on your laptop, in 231 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: your home, wherever you go. It changed the paradigm of 232 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: cable and it allowed people to sort of pick and 233 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: choose and then olive carte way what they wanted to watch. 234 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: If you only wanted to watch Netflix, you just get 235 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: Netflix cable. You were paying for a bundle even though 236 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: you didn't watch all the channels, so some people were 237 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: paying for If you were in a sports fan, you're 238 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: paying thirty cents thirty cents whatever it is now for ESPN. 239 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 1: But if you never watch the Infant, you had to 240 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 1: pay for it because it's part of a bundle. So 241 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 1: you then bought as we mentioned earlier, the Charlotte Bobcats 242 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: a new team. Um, you didn't know much about running 243 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: a basketball team, I assume. So you've brought in a 244 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: guy named Michael Joe. How do you tell Michael Jordan 245 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: he doesn't know much about basketball? If the thing isn't 246 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: working out perfectly? Can you say, Michael, I played in 247 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: grade school and I know something about basketball. How do 248 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: you tell Michael Jordan's things aren't working perfectly when it 249 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: If it doesn't work perfectly, you don't, okay, So just 250 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: let him run the team, and you basically owned it. 251 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: He more or less was the manager of it. He 252 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: was he was the general manager of it. And he 253 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: decided on who he's gonna hire his coach, He decided 254 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: on what players here going to draft, and he decided 255 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: on you know, how the team would be be run. 256 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: I was the pay and the payer in this game. 257 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: So when you sold your NBA team, the Charlotte Bobcats, 258 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: the price of NBA teams had not risen to the 259 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: billion dollar range. Any regrets about selling it when you 260 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: sold it, Oh, definitely regrets. I tell Michael about that 261 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: all the time. But nobody could have predicted that Don 262 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: Sterling would say what he said about black people, and 263 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: the led to the NBA commissioner to say we've got 264 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: a huge racial problem. If we're gonna keep down Sterling 265 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: as an owner, and he basically forced Downald Sterling out. 266 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: But being forced out and you walk away with a 267 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: two billion dollars, you know a lot of people would 268 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: like to be forced out a team for that price, 269 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: you know. So that was it. But uh, Michael was 270 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: always my first choice to sell the team. He and 271 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: I have been friends, see, you know, fifteen years before 272 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: I even owned the team really, so you know, I 273 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: wanted if anybody I wanted to sell the team too, 274 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: if I was forced to sell with me to Michael. 275 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: As we talked today, there's rumors that the Washington football 276 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: team now called the Commanders might be sold. And h 277 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: NFL teams are pretty expensive. But any interest in getting 278 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: back into sports, you're a native of Washington or non native, 279 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: but you've lived there for a long time, that's probably 280 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: a check too far. I mean, because these these teams 281 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: are so rich, and I mean, if you could get one, 282 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: it's a little bit I would call an NFL saying 283 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: about the closest thing to a license to print money 284 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: that you can think of, But you gotta really pay 285 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: up for it because it's a it's a great sport asset. 286 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: It's one of the best, I would say in the world, 287 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: maybe maybe better than some of the hockey teams, although 288 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: pretty close. To a young black entrepreneur who says, I 289 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: want to be the next Bob Johnson, what advice would 290 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: you give to that person about how to build a business, 291 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: empire and be successful. I do this. I give this 292 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: answer all the time. The first and foremost thing, you 293 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: gotta believe in yourself. You gotta believe in yourself that 294 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: you deserve the opportunity to be successful. And the second thing, 295 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: you gotta understand that nobody does anything alone. You've got 296 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: to find talented people that you can convince to go 297 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: on that voyage with your order to share your vision. 298 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: And you gotta make sure that they participate in your upside. 299 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: You gotta give them a stake in the game to 300 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: make sure make them feel like you have their interests 301 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: and the interests of their family close at heart. And 302 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: if you believe that and you work hard, they will 303 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: work hard with you. And today, do you think for 304 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: a young Bob Johnson, they're starting out once to build 305 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: a company. It's easier for an African American to get 306 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: capital or no easier honestly than it was years ago. 307 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: Easier in the sense that there's a belief that there's 308 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: should be more diversity of opportunity, whether it's diversity opportunity 309 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: is sponsored by the government or diversity of opportunity in 310 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: the form of e s g. That corporations some of 311 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: them give lip service too. So the theory is if 312 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: you go and ask someone to be your partner, who 313 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: they're more inclined to give you a hearing. But the 314 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: ability to get the right person in the right amount 315 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: of capital is still very hard. My relationship with John Malone, 316 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: and we still have it today, was extremely unique. I 317 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: and imagine that one out of a thousand black entrepreneurs 318 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,479 Speaker 1: kids today could find them a John Malone. You've been 319 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: involved advising presidential candidates, I presume presidents as well. Um, 320 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: do you ever have any interest in serving in a 321 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: senior position in the federal government or running for office? Absolutely, 322 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: unequivocally no. The aggravation factor isn't worth it. It's the 323 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: aggravation factor. But it's more importantly is I don't believe 324 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: there's any integrity in it. So you do give money 325 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: to politicians though, because that's the system, but you it's 326 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: a part of the game. I think, to be honest, 327 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,479 Speaker 1: I think there's a need for a multi party system 328 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: in the US to give more people a choice about 329 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: where they can throw their voter support and their political support, 330 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: but also to cause the country to try to come 331 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: together by having everybody have a role in deciding what 332 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: is in the long term best interest of the country. 333 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: I've often believe that Black Americans as a people and 334 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: as a voting block should adopt the same position that 335 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: the original founders of the Congressional Black Caucus had in 336 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: nineteen early seven nineteen seventy. Their philosophy was enunciated like this, 337 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: Black Americans should have no permanent friends, no permanent enemies, 338 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: just permanent interests. And if we voted like that, we 339 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: would be able to leverage that block because it's a 340 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: consistent block in our long term best interests, rather than 341 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: be addicted to one party and ignored by the other party. 342 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: Do you have government officials, members of Congress, or people 343 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: in the White House ever asking you for advice these days? Well, 344 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: I don't think they asked so much as I try 345 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 1: to go to them to suggest to them what they 346 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: should consider particularly as it relates to what I call 347 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: I have a formula a belief I called their business 348 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: illusions to social problems. I'm not a big proponent of 349 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: government handouts. I've never been in favor of government subsidies. 350 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: I like the idea of government providing a pathway through 351 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: regulatory freedom and balance to allow companies to create it. 352 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: But they got to be some focus on economic benefits 353 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: to in my opinion, to the black community. And for example, 354 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: real quickly, I've got members of the Congressional Black Caucus 355 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: to support something I call the Boostack. The Boostack very 356 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: simple was this. It would give investors in black businesses 357 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: a tax preference if they would invest in these business 358 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: I called in legislation I was introduced by a Congressman 359 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: and food made from Baltimore. Would put thirty billion of 360 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: treasury money aside for preferences for myself. For you who 361 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: would go to a company and say I'm gonna invest 362 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: in your business X number of dollars. When you exit 363 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: that business or do a sale of that business, I 364 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: will get a preference on my capital gains and the 365 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: whole idea. It was not a mandate then require it 366 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: was only voluntarily to me, that's better than all of 367 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: these pledges that are going around there are not being 368 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: fact implemented. And and that's the kind of way I 369 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: got the same way I did that with the auto portability. 370 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: So you're one of the best known black entrepreneurs and 371 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: business leaders in the United States and one of the wealthiest. 372 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: Do you face discrimination today in your daily lives or 373 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: in your your business career? Do you still think you're 374 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: being discriminated against? You think you're not in that situation 375 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: others are, but you're so well known you don't face 376 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: that discrimination. Uh. No, you face discrimination in terms of 377 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: what I call uh bias discrimination where they people just 378 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: don't they recognize you as black first, Bob Johnson second, 379 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: and wealthy Bob Johnson third. So when you get in 380 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: that situation, you'll find cases like this. A clear example. Uh, 381 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: I could be going I could go to a restaurant 382 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: and if I'm standing outside waiting to to go in, 383 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: after I'm giving my car to be park, someone will 384 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: come up to me and asked me to get their car. 385 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: What do you say when that happens? Can I take 386 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: it and keep it? But no, I mean the thing 387 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: is they see a black man standing by parking valet parking. 388 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: Their intellectual bias assumes one, you can't afford to be 389 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: at that restaurant. To you're standing next to valet of parking, 390 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: you must be a parking lottitides. So today, Um, as 391 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: you look at the United States economy, are you worried 392 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: that we're heading into a recession of some type and 393 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: that we're hurt not only black businesses but all businesses. 394 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: I think the economy has to have a recession in 395 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: front of it until we stopped the huge amount of 396 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: fiscal spending that comes out of the government. And I 397 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: see nothing in the government that will change that trajectory 398 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: on spending. Uh. And and that's the part where I 399 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: think we've got the faces a recession because as you 400 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: keep dumping money and chasing fewer goods, it's probably the 401 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: textbook description of your headed towards the recession, and or 402 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: worse than that, you headed to something called the variation 403 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: that called stagflation, where you got you got spending going 404 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: up and you've got productivity going down. Because it puts 405 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: you in a problem. So yeah, I think until something 406 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: changes on that equation. Yeah, did your parents live to 407 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: see your success as a business leader. They did. In 408 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: terms of b et, they didn't. I still owned that 409 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: I hadn't sold it, and I hadn't done all the 410 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: other things that they tell you you're terrific. We knew 411 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: you were going to be successful, or they said, uh, 412 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: you know, you're just the same as our other nine children. 413 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: That one my mother always used to say. Somebody say, oh, 414 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: aren't you proud of your son, Bob, she'd say, I 415 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: love all my children. That was her thing. Thanks for 416 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: listening to hear more of my interviews. You can subscribe 417 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.