WEBVTT - The Woke Mob with Jennifer Sey 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.360 Doesn't it feel like we're hostages in our own country 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:07.000 that were hostages to this vocal minority, this woke mob 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:09.840 that are trying to dictate how we live our lives, 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:12.440 what we can talk about, what's acceptable or not. And 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:16.200 of course they virtue signal without having any virtue or 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:21.040 morality themselves. We're at a really weird place in society today, 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:25.120 and I'm interested in finding out and talking to someone 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.800 in this episode. Jennifer Say, who actually was a cancel 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.960 culture victim who was forced out of her job at Levi's. 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:34.479 She was the brand president. She was on track to 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.720 be the Genes company CEO, but she was forced out 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.760 for simply just raising questions about COVID. You know, she's 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.960 got kids. She was worried what school closures would do, 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.200 what impact that would have on her children, and they said, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.280 you know what, you got to shut up or ship out, 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.120 and so she chose to resign as opposed to taking 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:56.240 money and musling herself. So she experienced this woke mob 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.000 both as just a human being in today's society during COVID, 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.560 but also as an executive at a major corporation. So 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:05.600 I want to talk to her about that and then also, 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:08.560 what does this mean for society with gen Z, this 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.920 TikTok generation, What is her workforce going to look like 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.839 in the future, And how much control the CEOs really 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.160 even have when they're seemingly being held captive by these 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:22.080 justice warrior employees. So that conversation and more. She's also 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.920 the author of a new book, Levi's and Button. It's 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.520 an autobiography of her time at Levi's. She's also the 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.360 author of a book called Chalked Up. It's an autobiography 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.920 of her time as an elite gymnast. And she was 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.160 a producer of athlete A, a documentary on the Larry 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.080 a Star scandal at USA Gymnastics. The film ended up 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:45.119 winning an Emmy as well. So interesting background, interesting story, 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:47.240 and we're going to get into all of it with 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:55.320 Jennifer Say. Well, Jennifer, it's so good to have you 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:57.520 on the show. You know, I want to obviously get 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:00.600 into what led to your resigning from Levi, But I 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.720 mean that track to get to the position a brand president, 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:05.640 to be on the CEO track, I mean you put 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:07.840 in a lot of sweat equity. It's a major company. 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.000 Talk about sort of that journey to get to the 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.320 point where you were before you left. Yeah, I thank 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:17.000 you for having me. First of all, I spent the 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:21.400 better part of my adulthood at Levi's Climbing Climbing the Ladder. 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:23.600 I started there in nineteen ninety nine. I was not 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.120 my first job, but certainly very early in my career. 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.360 I was an entry level marketing assistant. I didn't even 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.480 really know what I wanted, but I loved the brand 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:33.919 and I loved the product, and I'd warned the product 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:38.079 since I was a young child, you know. I'd tell 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.640 a story in the book that I wrote, Levi's I'm Betton. 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.240 I traveled to Moscow in nineteen eighty six for the 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.880 very first good Will Games, which was sort of this rogue, 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:51.160 you know, Olympic style competition, and I brought ten pairs 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.040 of Levi's five O ones to trade with the Russian gymnasts. 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:56.440 I mean, they were part of my life, and they 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:01.040 represented rugged individualism and sort of the best of American values. 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.160 And I loved this company. So I started there in 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.399 nineteen ninety nine, worked my way up the ladder, which 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.480 wasn't particularly easy as a woman in the nineties and 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:13.120 two thousands, it was a pretty inhospitable environment to women, 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:15.240 I would say, and I think, you know, it's a 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.520 testament to how far we have come that it is 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:22.120 much better now. It was very male dominated, you know, 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:26.120 you spend time at sales meetings with drunken sales guys 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:29.840 trying trying to avoid you know, advances and that kind 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:33.040 of thing. But I climbed my way up, and in 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.040 twenty thirteen I made it to cheap Marketing Officer, which 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.200 is a really big and public facing role that helps 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.280 to steer the direction of the brand and the company 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.000 and the brand. The company wasn't doing well, you know, 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.640 we were near bankruptcy in twenty eleven, the storied iconic brand, 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.640 and eight years in the role as CMO, I helped 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.080 bring it back and helped us to an IPO. We 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:59.760 went public in twenty nineteen, very successfully. And I, you know, 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:04.000 I was just I was disciplined, curious. I took pride 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:08.640 in being a leader and helping people build careers, you know, 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:12.920 at the company. But in two and twenty, when the 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.320 schools shut down and we went into total lockdown in 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.520 San Francisco and across the country, I was alarmed and 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.120 I was reading the data that showed that children were 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.440 at no risk, and I was very outspoken. I have 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:30.680 four children, all public school students, and I was outspoken 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.600 about all of the restrictions to children from the outset, 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.760 you know, right from March thirteen, twenty twenty. And by outspoken, 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.120 you know on social media, I wrote off as I 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.719 was on a local news and eventually, in the late 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.240 fall of twenty twenty started leading rallies to try to 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:50.000 get the schools open, and it was a conflict internally. 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.720 I was told repeatedly I needed to stop, that it 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.960 was upsetting to people. I did not stop for two years, 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.040 and eventually I was told there was no longer a 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.760 place for me at the company. Now, during this two years, 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.279 I was promoted as you indicated to brand President, which 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.279 is you know, next in line for CEO, and I 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.360 think a testament to the fact that I was performing 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:14.240 in my duties. But what I was doing was quote 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.560 unquote upsetting to people and it went against the Democratic 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.880 Party narrative. And I was told I needed to leave, 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.559 and I was offered severance. Did not accept it because 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.520 I didn't want to sign a nondisclosure agreement. I wanted 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:28.440 to be able to speak out about the censorship and 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.880 the liberalism. And so here we are and I'm talking 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.520 to you. So how did they approach you? Were they 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.160 just you know, kind of what were those conversations like 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.440 when they were obviously identifying things that they weren't happy 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.320 with in terms of you know, what you were saying 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.279 about COVID. It didn't start for about six months, so 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.919 I think the first call that I, you know, noted 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.000 was in September of two and twenty. And you know, 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.000 as I was tweeting and writing staff and you know, 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.919 I kept thinking, well, if someone called me, I'll you know, 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.440 think about it. But you know, no one's saying. I 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.200 didn't really have a very large follow and I'll just 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.200 keep going this is too important. But in the fall 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.120 of twenty twenty, I got a call from our head 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.839 of corporate communications and that role. You know, I think 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.480 she would define it as protecting the corporate reputation, you know, 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.440 of the company, and I think she saw what I 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:20.640 was doing as potentially harmful to the reputation of the company. 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:24.400 Though I never identified myself as an employee, you know, 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.520 I was speaking as a mom and a citizen, and 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.440 she said, people are noticing people are upset with what 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:34.640 you're saying. And I said, okay, I understand that, but 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.599 I think it's the right thing to do, to stand 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.440 up for children. And at this point, you know, it 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.200 was the fall of twenty We knew so much. I mean, 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.239 we knew so much in the beginning, but we knew, 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.159 you know, that the median age of death was in 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:51.599 the eighties. We knew that children were mercifully protected. We 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.039 knew that European schools had been opened, and we knew 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.960 that the private schools in my city were about to open. 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.480 And this woman was about to send her children back 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.120 to in person school while telling me I could not 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:06.080 advocate for the same for the low income children of 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.960 San Francisco. So, you know, she said, people are upset. 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.720 You need to probably think about it and stop. And 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.680 I said I don't. I don't want to. And I said, 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.120 are you telling me I have to? And she said, no, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.680 I can't do that. I don't know if she meant 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:25.080 because you know, legally she can't, or because she was 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:28.560 a peer and she didn't have the authority. And I said, 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.520 then I'm not going to and she said, will you 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.120 hold the line? And I didn't really understand what that meant. 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:35.000 And I said, you know, I'm not going to identify 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.560 myself as a Levi's employee. I'm not speaking on behalf 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.960 of the company. That's what I will offer you. And 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.360 we hung up, and from then on, every two weeks, 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:45.800 I'd get a call from somebody else, you know, from 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.720 the head of legal, from a board member, and the 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.480 conversation pretty much went the same way. It didn't start 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.440 to accelerate and kind of escalate in intensity in the 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:00.880 spring of twenty one, after I appeared on Fox, which 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.480 is a no no apparently, And of course you're right. 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.240 We knew the entire time that you know, the remote 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.120 learning was not going to be good for kids, that 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.320 you know, kids have been set back so far in 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:14.800 terms of their learning and their development. I mean, it's 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:16.960 really just been tragic what they did to kids. Why 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:18.920 did you make the decision? You know, you said that 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.960 you decided not to sign the nondisclosure you didn't want 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.320 to be muzzled, which essentially that's what it would have done. 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:26.600 And what was that decision making, like to say, you know, 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:28.720 I'm going to walk away from this company. I've spent 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.439 all this time working my way up. Yeah, I mean 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:34.320 the decision was whether or not to take the money 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.440 and muzzle myself. I mean I was being pushed out, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.600 you know, a job for me was no longer an option. There. 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.559 The question was, you know, did I take the money, 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.800 give myself a quote unquote soft landing and walk away 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.800 and not talk about it? And honestly, it took me 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:55.440 all about, you know, a few seconds to decide. And 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.400 people ask me all the time, why why did you 0:08:57.400 --> 0:08:59.360 throw it all away? Why was this the hill that 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:01.760 you were willing to die on? And my response is 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:06.280 always why weren't you? I mean, if we if we 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.040 shouldn't have to live in a country where we can't 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.480 express our opinions, where we can't stand up for our families, 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.440 and where we're expected to further lies because it's what 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:17.880 our tribe tells us to do. That is not a 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.560 free country. And if we had been able to have 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:26.640 a conversation, a societal conversation about this particular issue, you know, 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.240 and all the other ones having to do with COVID, 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.600 but this particular issue, I think we would have gotten 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.000 to a very different answer and we wouldn't be experiencing, 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.160 you know, the patastrophic harms that are playing out in 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.240 terms of, you know, how our kids are doing. And 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:45.160 so I just I couldn't silence myself, you know. I 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.960 mean it all started with me just sort of being 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.840 dogged and standing up for children. But as it progressed 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:52.680 over the course of two years, what became more and 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:56.640 more alarming was the censorship and the manufacturing of this 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:01.000 false consensus and the lack of any ability to kind 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.080 of have open debate and dissent around this issue. And 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.840 that almost became more important and more central, because that 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.440 affects every issue right in the country. If we can't 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:13.880 talk about these things, that we can't get to any 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:19.600 reasonable common sense solution. And so I just wasn't going 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.280 to give up my voice. It seemed too hypocritical, and 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.480 I felt like, Okay, this is a hill. I will 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.920 gladly die on the hill for freedom of speech and 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:28.840 the well being of children. I can't really think of 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.640 a higher purpose than that. It's more important than my job. 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:36.640 And you know, I decided quickly that I was not 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.480 going to take the money. I respect that because you know, 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.319 we're like minded in that way. I was actually interviewing 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.480 for the view for the Conservative Sea and I wouldn't 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.280 get vaccinated, and so you know that there goes that, 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:49.240 right and then and then of course they'll they all 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.280 end up with COVID regardless. But you know, no one, 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.680 of course, no one ever admits you were right about stuff. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:56.560 You know, But I want to ask you, you don't 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.600 know you had mentioned that when you were starting at 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.040 Leva and you're working our way up, you felt like 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.800 this company represents the best of America. Do you still 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:08.160 feel that way? I would assume not. No, Yeah, I don't. 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.760 I mean I think the brand does in people's minds. 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:12.160 Do you know what I mean when I when I 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.160 say the best, Like Levi's has never been a brand 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:19.920 that used flag imagery for instances in its advertising, but 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.640 I think the brand has very much stood for rugged individualism, 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.160 for progress and optimism and inclusion. Like you think about 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:33.920 who wears Levi's, right, everybody wears Levis Farmers and carpenters 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.559 and minivan moms and hipster kids and bee boys and 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:41.200 like everybody like that is that's kind of the promise 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.400 of America, right, that we're like united in our difference. 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.960 We all wear this brand because we can be ourselves 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.520 in it and wants something that unite us, that we 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.320 want to be ourselves, we want to express ourselves as individuals. 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.880 And I always thought that was so cool about Levis 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.200 And I think while people may not express it that 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.320 way like I just because they didn't spend twenty three 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.360 years working on the brand, I think people have that sense. 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.320 I mean I know they do, because I've talked to 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.360 people around the world, and people around the world love 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:13.000 that about Levi's. And I think that's why my story 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.480 has resonated, because this is not a company that people 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.360 don't know, you know, or like a giant company that 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.600 you don't really know what they do, like Salesforce. You know, 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.240 this is Levi's. Everybody has a pair in their closet 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.640 and has some sense of it as representing that promise. 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:33.720 And so to see this play out is alarming to people, 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.280 right And so no, I don't. I think it's anything 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.319 but inclusive. And I think they've trespassed their own stated 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.640 values and an effort to see to carry water for 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:49.720 the Democratic Party. You know, there's this collusion between corporate 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:57.560 America and kind of woke activists and and the actual 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.360 Democratic Party and the press, by the way, who just 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:05.559 prints you know, the press and journalists have completely fallen 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:10.520 off course and they print you know, government issue talking 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.439 points and corporate issue talking points from Fiser as journalism, 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.160 and that's not journalism. There's this total collusion. And so no, 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.000 I don't think they embody those values anymore. I think 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.000 they pretend to, but clearly my story is evidence of 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.120 the fact that they do not. It feels like we're 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:30.760 all hostages to the woke mob. We're all being held 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.800 hostage by them. Talk about how beholden our corporations to 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.520 the woke mob these days? And how did that happen? 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.360 I mean, they don't have to be, you know, I 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.640 mean they are because why yeah, why do you think 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.560 they are? Though? Well, I think it's a couple of things, 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:49.800 you know. I think the price one, I think these 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:54.120 leaders are. They lack courage, They lack moral courage, They 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.160 don't know what they think. You know, I used to 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:58.560 think when I was younger, I want to get in 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.040 that room where the smart people are, the executives who 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:02.800 are making tough calls. And I got in the room 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.600 and I was like, well, that's not what's happening here. 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.880 You know. They looked to their left and they're right 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.520 before uttering a word, and they don't speak authentically, and 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.720 they don't speak in their own voice, and I think 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.760 right now, you know, it's an attempt to profit off 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.400 of gen Z and millennial activism to say kind of 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.840 we share your value to buy our stuff, rather than 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.520 talking about we make this great product that you're going 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:29.120 to like and focusing on product excellence. It provides a 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.200 shield from scrutiny because the press eds it up and 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.280 then they failed to kind of scrutinize these businesses. You know, 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.640 I think someone like Sam Bankman Freed is a great 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.560 example of that. Right. He championed all these woke causes 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.440 pre pandemic planning and environmentalism, and they put them on 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.040 their covers of Forbes and Fortune, and they never did 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:50.360 any basic due diligence in terms of looking at the 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.880 financial fundamentals which would have revealed that he was a 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.640 fraud from the beginning. That he was celebrated for years 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.560 and enabled, you know, that enabled his theft and frauds. 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.520 So it's a shield from scrutiny. They like being celebrated. 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.640 It's not cool to be rich anymore. You have to 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.440 disavow your privilege and greed is not good. So even 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.120 though they're still greedy and want to make a ton 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.160 of money, they take these stances so they can be 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:15.760 celebrated in all the ways that their egos require. And 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.160 you know, lastly, they're afraid of their young employees. They 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.680 want to impress their own kids. They don't understand social media. 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.960 And so when they have their HR lead and their 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.280 corp common league coming to them and saying you have 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.080 to be very afraid of this very vocal, punitive minority, 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.840 they are, and so they cater to them. And at 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:34.960 the end of the day, Lisa, I just don't think 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.080 it would be that hard to stand up to them, 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:38.920 you know, I think it would not be that hard 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.760 to do. For instance, what Ted Sarandos at Netflix did 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.320 when he said, look, I know you want me to 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.280 take this off the platform, but we appeal to a 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.800 lot meaning Dave Chappelle's the Closer, But we have a 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:51.800 lot of viewers that like a lot of stuff. If 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:53.800 you don't like it, don't work here. That was it. 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.200 It was over quick commercial break more with Jennifer Say 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:02.680 on the other side. Well, see, that's the thing they 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.560 don't understand is when you do see companies stand up 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:07.240 and they're like, no, we're not going to do this. 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.960 The mob goes away and finds another, you know, they'll 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.920 find their next victim. They do that, they target. It's 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.000 like a swarm of bees. You know. You wrote in 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.880 the New York Post, which I love this, you wrote, 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.000 these twenty and thirty somethings are ideological terrorists, policing their 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:25.520 peers and elders relentlessly. I mean, social media has really 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:29.240 empowered this mob, you know. I mean it's really empowered 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.000 these young people. You know, I think a majority of 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.840 our population to have so much control over you know, 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.400 dictating sort of this fake morality and virtue signaling to 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.120 the rest of us, and holding these CEOs and companies 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.080 captive as well. Yeah, they absolutely are. And I really 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.080 honestly believe it's a very vocal, impunitive minority. I think 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.200 it's you know, under ten percent. I think the vast 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.600 majority of people are applying basic common sense and at 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.480 the very least are open to people having you know, 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.640 debate and theos. But the majorities stay quiet because they're 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.520 afraid of the minority. And that's what puts people like 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.800 me in this you know, zone of being able to 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:11.880 be targeted as fringe and you know, crazy and dangerous 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:18.120 because the majority, the majority stay silent. You know, they're afraid, 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.040 and you know, everything I faced over the course for 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.960 two years. In some ways it was you know, behind 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.320 closed doors, but in some ways it was also very public. 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.520 You know, we had these virtual town halls because we 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.840 of course we're working virtually. It was too dangerous to 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.600 go in the office and people would just call me 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.440 terrible names, and honestly they didn't have to use their names, 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.600 you know in the chat. You know, can you please 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:43.240 address what why Genza is here? She's a racist, she's this, 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:45.720 she's a fat pope, she's the anti trans Like I was, 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.560 you challenge one aspect of the platform, one tenant, and 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.879 then you get lumped into this. She's a fringe psychopath, 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:59.119 QAnon insane lady. And it was happening very publicly. People 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.639 knew what was happened, and so they make the choice 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:05.520 to stay quiet themselves. You know, nobody would even say, hey, 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.520 I don't agree with her, but she has the right 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.399 to say it. And fifty thousand public school children are 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.080 at home, we can have this conversation. Nobody wants to 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.760 do that because so the sixty seventy percent stay silent, 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:23.800 and you have this battle between you know, the angry, 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:25.679 woke mom and it is real. I don't care what 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.240 the left says. It was real. They got me outted 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:30.720 from my job. And then you have the people sort 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:32.920 of brave enough to stand it and say, hey, can 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:34.879 we talk about this or I'm not going to further 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.560 these lies. All of this the school close. It was 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.560 the premised you know this online. It was premised on 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.040 the lie that we were all at equal risk. It 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.920 was premised on the lie that virtual learning was school. 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:49.800 It was premised on the lie that kids were resilient 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.560 enough to endure this isolation and come out unscathed. And 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:59.000 I wouldn't further a lie, but that minority, you know, 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:01.880 you asked a great question. I don't understand why we're 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.080 also afraid of that when if we stood together, we 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:05.879 would be the mature. And you're right. I mean what 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.119 they do is they smear you. You know, I've literally 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.720 raised questions about one vaccine and like my entire professional 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.960 career about the COVID vaccines because you know, they were 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:16.960 produced in less than a year. Are most vaccines have 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:18.720 five to ten years of safety data and I'm not 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:20.560 at risk because I was like, sorry, I'm not getting it, 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.280 and they labeled anti vaxx or that this is what 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.000 they do. They try to silence you through smears. I 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.720 worry about you know, this sort of TikTok generation gen z. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:34.879 You know these overly you know, sensitive but incredibly hostile 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:40.480 group of young people. Isn't it very sensitive but very hostile, 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.520 Like with our leaders wanting to fly private while telling us, 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:45.440 you know, we need to do something about climate change 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:47.320 and you're just like, none of it makes sense and 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.119 any of this, you know, we live in a clown world. 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.879 What does this mean for the future generation of our 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.119 country or workforce? I mean, I worry that we're not 0:19:56.240 --> 0:20:00.000 producing the best and that comparatively speaking to other countries, 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:02.680 we're going to be left behind because you know, we're 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:07.360 producing a bunch of you know, cry baby victims who 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:11.120 think they deserve everything without ever happy to work for anything. Yeah, 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.560 I mean it's interesting observing, you know, it's slightly tangential, 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:16.840 but like you know, San Francisco where I used to live. 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.160 I moved to Denver during all of this, but has 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.840 the lowest return to office occupancy rate. And you know, 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.879 at the time of my leaving Leavis in spring of 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.960 twenty two, they had reopened officers sort of in the 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.399 soft way, and the highest occupancy on any given day 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:34.760 was like fifteen percent. Like people were just refusing to 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:38.960 come back. And I will tell you they're not doing work. 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.200 I mean, I can tell you from managing a team 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.720 for two years that was virtual. They're not. You know. 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.359 They say it's flexibility. They say they want, you know, 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:51.440 more flexibility, which I always allowed for anyway. I never 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:53.560