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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the

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Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyan, and this week on the show, I'm joined

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Speaker 1: by Culli newcome to discuss and recap my Arkansas public

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Speaker 1: land mule back deer hunting adventure. All right, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Life,

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Speaker 1: and today we're continuing the series in which I'm recapping

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Speaker 1: my pretty wild season of traveling hunts. As I've discussed,

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Speaker 1: I've been on a journey of sorts this year, going

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Speaker 1: across the country to different regions of white tailed country

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Speaker 1: to learn about how people hunt in that unique place,

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Speaker 1: meeting with a regional expert to dig into what types

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Speaker 1: of tactics they use, where they hunt, how they find

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Speaker 1: word of hunt, how the deer act in their area,

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Speaker 1: and what the hunting culture is there too. So that's

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Speaker 1: what I did. I spent a day in Arkansas with

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Speaker 1: Clay Newcomb and James Lawrence learning about the old ways

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Speaker 1: of hunting, the mountains down south still hunting and hunting

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Speaker 1: terrain features, and finding public land deer and big woods

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Speaker 1: country really interesting stuff. So I got to spend a

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Speaker 1: morning with Clay and afternoon talking to James, and then

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Speaker 1: we actually went in on mule back deep into this

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Speaker 1: public land section and spent the next three and a

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Speaker 1: half days myself on my own trying to kill buck

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Speaker 1: up there. So that's the story we're gonna share. It's

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Speaker 1: a good one, it's a fun one. It was a

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Speaker 1: heck of a hunt. It gave me a really interesting

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Speaker 1: glimpse into deer hunting in the South, into some of

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Speaker 1: the influences that Clay has had that come from a

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Speaker 1: time long ago, and why there's there's a certain appeal

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Speaker 1: and certain value to doing things as a hunter that

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Speaker 1: maybe we don't need to do anymore, but have value

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Speaker 1: in being less efficient and harkening back to a bygone era,

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Speaker 1: talking about getting a little taste of what it was

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Speaker 1: like back in the day for somebody like Daniel Boone

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Speaker 1: going in on horse or mule and staying out there

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Speaker 1: for a week or two hunting deer, hunting bears, whatever

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Speaker 1: it might be. I got just the tiniest little glimpse

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Speaker 1: of what that life might have been like. I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you what. It's pretty cool. So that's the plan for today.

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Speaker 1: We do also, in addition to Clay, have my buddy

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Speaker 1: Tyler Emmett. He was one of the cameraman on this

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Speaker 1: trip and I wanted to have him on the show

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Speaker 1: to help give some color and some perspective on the

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Speaker 1: hunts because he was there with me, right next to

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Speaker 1: me during the hunts on my own, but he was

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Speaker 1: in the airport hopping on a plane and timing ended

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Speaker 1: up getting goofy. So he's in here. He shares a

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Speaker 1: couple of quick thoughts, but then has to bail because

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Speaker 1: of the flight, so I didn't really work out. But

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Speaker 1: he's here. You'll hear a bit from him, but just

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Speaker 1: understand that's why he sounds a little distant. That's why

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Speaker 1: he wasn't in much of the show. But regardless, I

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Speaker 1: thank you here to like this one. Me and Clay

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Speaker 1: get into some interesting debates around scent control too that

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna want to miss. So well that said,

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Speaker 1: let's get into it. Thank you for listening all right

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Speaker 1: with me? Now, I've got Clay newcome and Tyler Emmett

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Speaker 1: and the both of you guys were with me on

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Speaker 1: this heck of a heck of an adventure in Arkansas,

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Speaker 1: and so I appreciate you taking time to come here

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Speaker 1: and help me recapit a little bit rather than doing

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Speaker 1: the you know how you're doing, what's new, YadA, YadA, YadA.

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Speaker 1: I just want to get right in the story because

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Speaker 1: we've got a lot to cover, uh and Clay. This

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Speaker 1: trip began mostly, I think it began when we got

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Speaker 1: to James Lawrence's place. He's a mentor of yours, and

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Speaker 1: he was gonna help kind of set our sights on

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Speaker 1: what we should be doing, what we should be thinking about,

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Speaker 1: what I should be targeting. There's a lot of things

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Speaker 1: like that that we're hoping to chat with him about

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Speaker 1: at his place before we headed to the mountain. Can

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Speaker 1: you can you start us out, Clay, just jumping right

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Speaker 1: into who James is and how he was an influence

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Speaker 1: on you. Sure. Yeah, So James Lawrence. People that have

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Speaker 1: listened to some of my stuff in the past may

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Speaker 1: have met James Lawrence. He's been on some podcasts with

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Speaker 1: me and stuff. But James is in his I believe

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Speaker 1: James is seventy three years old, and he's just one

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Speaker 1: of these guys that has lived his entire life in

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Speaker 1: the same spot and has been a hunter since he

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Speaker 1: was a kid and has really dedicated himself two being

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Speaker 1: the best that he can be with the resources he

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Speaker 1: has in the place he lives, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's never traveled to hunt other than with me. In

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Speaker 1: in the last five years, he's he with me to

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Speaker 1: Canada white tailed deer hunting. Other than that, he's probably

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Speaker 1: not hunted out of the county he lives in, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I always I love those kind of guys. I

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Speaker 1: really do that their their world is not propped up

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Speaker 1: by you know, kind of I want to say exotic travel.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's probably not a good descriptor. But he's

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Speaker 1: just he's just dedicated himself to what what he's got,

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Speaker 1: and so he's we're down in the Washington Mountains and James,

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Speaker 1: it's from the area that I grew up in, so

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Speaker 1: my hometown, which I don't live in anymore, and that's

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Speaker 1: in the mountains of western Arkansas, and it's a difficult

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Speaker 1: place to whitetail hunt, and it is getting increasingly better.

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Speaker 1: I believe we have probably better deer populations right now

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Speaker 1: than we've had and even since when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: but just difficult hunting conditions you know, run good terrain

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Speaker 1: and just vast stretches of continuous hardwoods, pines and just

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Speaker 1: closed canopy timber like you would find in a lot

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Speaker 1: of places in the East. But the mountains make it

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Speaker 1: harder because you've got a lot of topographic differences and

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Speaker 1: changes and and and so James as he's developed a

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Speaker 1: style of hunting that really he kind of came up

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Speaker 1: with on his own. And his story is pretty unique

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Speaker 1: because his family, they as in the tradition of where

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Speaker 1: we come from, with a ran hounds on deer and

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Speaker 1: still due to the state people down there, it's legal

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Speaker 1: and it's great. I absolutely love running deer with dogs.

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Speaker 1: So James grew up with that, but from an early

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Speaker 1: age he he didn't like it. Not for some ethical reason,

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Speaker 1: he just you know, he just did. He just wanted

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Speaker 1: to go out in the woods and hunt them. And

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Speaker 1: his uncle taught him how to track deer in the leaves,

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Speaker 1: which is difficult. James learned how to still hunt, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, just moving through the timber very slow and

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Speaker 1: going to good areas where he thinks deer are and

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Speaker 1: just spending time on the ground moving. Number two, he

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Speaker 1: he hunted out of tree stands some but just learning.

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Speaker 1: He learned how to use topographic features where these how

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Speaker 1: these mountains funnel these deer into certain predictable areas year

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Speaker 1: after year, And he learned how to hunt these saddles

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Speaker 1: and pinch points and heads of hollows and flats, and uh,

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Speaker 1: he's a big scrape hunter. He always liked hunting scrapes,

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, that's what we talked to James about

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Speaker 1: when you came down, Mark. Yeah, and I was so

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Speaker 1: glad that you were willing to introduce me to him

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Speaker 1: and let's spend some time there, because it was it

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Speaker 1: was eye opening in a lot of ways. First and

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Speaker 1: foremost just seeing the success he's had down there. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of shocking when I was imagining the type

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Speaker 1: of terrain he was hunting and how difficult it likely was,

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Speaker 1: and you told me about it, and then seeing you know,

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Speaker 1: and hearing about what he does and how he's actually

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's really filled the walls up with a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of great stories and deer and uh, that

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Speaker 1: was great. But then just hearing from like just getting

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Speaker 1: a chat with him, I mean, as you said to

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Speaker 1: us prior to meeting him, he was as nice as

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Speaker 1: you could get, as welcoming as you could ever imagine

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Speaker 1: someone like this could be. Um, I mean, just incredibly

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Speaker 1: kind and generous with his time and his insight, and

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Speaker 1: he gave us, you know, me in particular. I know

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Speaker 1: you've learned a lot from him over the years, but

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Speaker 1: me in particular gave me a really quick rundown on

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Speaker 1: some really helpful ideas for what I should be thinking

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Speaker 1: about and planning for when I head into to hunt

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Speaker 1: this kind of way. But I guess I probably should

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Speaker 1: rewind just a little bit and set the stage more,

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Speaker 1: because you know, we we headed to James because he

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Speaker 1: had hunted in the way that we're gonna hunt. But

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Speaker 1: to start Clay when I when we approached you, we

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Speaker 1: we were talking last year, I think, and I said, Hey,

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Speaker 1: we've got this new show, and I think it'd be

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Speaker 1: pretty cool to come down hunt with you and and

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Speaker 1: get like a genuine Arkansas experience. Why why was the

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Speaker 1: hunt that we ended up having that genuine Arkansas experience

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Speaker 1: that you thought I should have. We because we were

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Speaker 1: gonna take a mule heading into the heading to the

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Speaker 1: mountains of public land, camp out there and and hunt

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Speaker 1: these hard to find big woods, big mountain deer in Arkansas.

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Speaker 1: Why was that the experience you thought that I should have,

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Speaker 1: well Mark, because I like you so much. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to share the gold of Arkansas that number one. Uh No,

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Speaker 1: There's a ton of different places we could have gone

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Speaker 1: that would have been better, you know. I mean what

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Speaker 1: we did. What did was really probably the hardest way

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Speaker 1: to kill a deer here. We we have a broad

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Speaker 1: range of habitat and types of hunting in Arkansas. You know,

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Speaker 1: you get over into the Arkansas Delta near the Mississippi River,

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Speaker 1: and you've got as good at white tail hunting there

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Speaker 1: is probably anywhere in the country in certain stretches. I mean,

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Speaker 1: really it's like hunting the Midwest. And and then you

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Speaker 1: get into so where I live in the Ozark Mountains

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Speaker 1: up here on private land and the Ozarks kind of

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Speaker 1: some of these cattle pasture um or you know, cattle

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Speaker 1: farm type private land hunting. We've got quite a few deer.

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Speaker 1: You know, we could have gone hunting and I would

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Speaker 1: have anticipated seeing seven to twelve deer a day, you know.

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Speaker 1: And in but this what I call interior mountain hunting

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Speaker 1: is the most traditional style of hunting because that is

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Speaker 1: what basicly the first white Europeans that came here were doing.

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Speaker 1: They were using equal animals and doing long hunts. And

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Speaker 1: that is really what James did when he was younger.

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Speaker 1: And he didn't do it because it was cool there.

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Speaker 1: He didn't do it because he was trying to replicate something.

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Speaker 1: He did it just because that's that was a good

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Speaker 1: way in the in one of the most successful ways

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Speaker 1: he knew how to kill dear was to use an

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Speaker 1: equal animal, get back in as far as he could

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Speaker 1: with as much supplies as he could carry, and stay

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Speaker 1: back there and hunt and a lot of times solo.

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Speaker 1: And uh so that's what he did. And I was

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Speaker 1: always very intrigued by his stories and that kind of hunting,

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Speaker 1: and so that's what I started doing five or six

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Speaker 1: years ago under James. I've never what's kind of sad

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Speaker 1: is I've never actually hunted with James like that. You know, he's, uh,

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Speaker 1: he's in great shape for his age, but he's he's

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Speaker 1: not he's not like he was when he was forty

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Speaker 1: or fifty, you know, And so we've not been able

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Speaker 1: to do it together. But but I've got mules. He

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Speaker 1: used horses, and he told me how he hunted and

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Speaker 1: what he did, and you know he basically he would pack.

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Speaker 1: He would use his horse to and put panniers over

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Speaker 1: it with your big pouches that drape over a riding saddle,

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Speaker 1: which is key, and you'd carry all your supplies and

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Speaker 1: walk the horse in. And we're not hunting. This is

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Speaker 1: not like the West. We do not have the big,

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Speaker 1: vast country that the West has. So you know, you

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Speaker 1: might be walking in two to five miles and carry

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Speaker 1: all your stuff with you, and then when you get there,

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Speaker 1: you make your camp. And then once you get to

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Speaker 1: camp and you have all your stuff unloaded, you've got

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Speaker 1: a riding saddle on your animal, and you can use

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Speaker 1: that animal to ride, or you can just leave your

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Speaker 1: animal at camp and use it to haul everything out,

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Speaker 1: including aim, which is exactly what we did. I mean

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Speaker 1: we not to give away the not to give away

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Speaker 1: too much here, Mark, but I mean we we kind

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Speaker 1: of pulled it off just the way we hoped we would,

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Speaker 1: and it it's fantastic and it's a it's a fun

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say it's the most efficient way. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna say it's the best way, but you know,

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Speaker 1: with the way that we hunt. We absolutely every one

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Speaker 1: of us there gets to choose the way we want

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Speaker 1: to do something, and that is valuable. And to me,

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Speaker 1: this kind of hunting is valuable partly because of how

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Speaker 1: much I love James, but but also because this is

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Speaker 1: the most This is the way that guys would have

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Speaker 1: been doing it back in the early eight hundreds when

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Speaker 1: they were market hunting, digger and bear, you know. So yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to dig into that more, but maybe a

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Speaker 1: little later, since we only have Tyler for little bit,

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to kind of pick your brain. Tyler.

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Speaker 1: We you know, we got to bring you in on

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Speaker 1: this and you got to meet James and you get

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Speaker 1: to see and hear his stories. And then you were

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Speaker 1: following along with us, capturing the experience as me and

243
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Speaker 1: Clay did what he just described, which was we threw

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Speaker 1: our gear on the mule on day one and we

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Speaker 1: hiked into this big stretch of public land, hiked all

246
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Speaker 1: the way in, set up camp. What what was your

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Speaker 1: impression of this as we got kicked off? Um, well,

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Speaker 1: it was great to go meet James, you know, and

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Speaker 1: from the beginning kind of got just seeing his uh,

250
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Speaker 1: his garage full of you know, antlers and deer. Got

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Speaker 1: fired up thinking it was going to be low to

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Speaker 1: a deer, but as we got kicked off, it was

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Speaker 1: a little slow. Um, and maybe I was a little

254
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Speaker 1: bit sorry about you know it, Um, I was a

255
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Speaker 1: little bit uh because you didn't see much much sign

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Speaker 1: of deer. So I was maybe a little bit um

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Speaker 1: over zealous by seeing his garage and all the success

258
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Speaker 1: he had. Granted that was over fifty sixty years of

259
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Speaker 1: hunting or more. I can't remember how old he was

260
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Speaker 1: or when he started hunting, but it was it was

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Speaker 1: cool to do it in this you know, as you're saying,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of it's not Western style but kind of

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Speaker 1: long hunting style to go out in camp and check

264
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Speaker 1: out the landscape. But it was definitely Uh. After a

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Speaker 1: couple of days of scouting and hiking around, I was

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Speaker 1: a little bit nervous that we were in a success. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you're right. I mean, James, his wall, he said,

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Speaker 1: is a lifetime resume there. It definitely did give me

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Speaker 1: even more hope than I was expecting because I thought,

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Speaker 1: going into this man, this is going to be really hard.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to see deer or very many at

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Speaker 1: least and uh, you know, if if somehow this happens,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be a miracle. And then we go to

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Speaker 1: James's place, take a look at his his wall there,

275
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Speaker 1: and he starts telling some stories, and all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden I started thinking, Man, maybe it's better down here

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Speaker 1: than I realized. Um, but we we we get up

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Speaker 1: the next morning, we load up, go to a trail

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Speaker 1: head and then you know, throw the panniers on the mule,

280
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Speaker 1: load all of our stuff on there. We've got camping gear,

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Speaker 1: we've got hunting gear. I'll tell you. One thing I

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Speaker 1: was surprised by, Clay was the fact that you run

283
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Speaker 1: your climbing sticks unattached, just randomly thrown all over the

284
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Speaker 1: place and not back. Come on, Mark, come on, I

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Speaker 1: should have known this was gonna come up. I gotta

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Speaker 1: give you a little gotta give you a little crap

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Speaker 1: for that one. Well, I wouldn't say that that's entirely

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Speaker 1: that's not my always m O. But sometimes you gotta

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Speaker 1: stick them where you can stick them. When you got

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Speaker 1: a you know, paniers and you're trying to just cram

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Speaker 1: stuff and little little nooks and crannies. We caught it.

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Speaker 1: We cat also carrying them. Sorry, go aheady. We also

293
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Speaker 1: were caring on a lot of camera gear on your

294
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Speaker 1: mule was caring a lot of camera gear too, So

295
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,440
Speaker 1: you're just probably trying to We're trying to just stuff

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Speaker 1: anything we could in that mule. Oh yeah, thank your

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Speaker 1: mule for that. Yeah, meal was super handy for all

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Speaker 1: the heavy equipment we were bringing in there. And Uh,

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Speaker 1: I just thought it was really neat to get to

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Speaker 1: I've never done that. I've never been with any kind

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Speaker 1: of stock animal, horse or mule going into hunt. I

302
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,680
Speaker 1: don't Yeah, I don't think I've ever done that. So

303
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,240
Speaker 1: just having the the added benefit of that was neat.

304
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Speaker 1: And then there's just a certain I mean kind of

305
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Speaker 1: how you talked about Clay, how this whole style of

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Speaker 1: hunting is a throwback and it's it's much more for

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Speaker 1: the experience than just the efficiency. Um. I just felt

308
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Speaker 1: a certain lure to hiking into the mountains with with

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Speaker 1: a critter like that, just felt like I was tapping

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Speaker 1: into something different, something old, or something richer. Uh that.

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Speaker 1: I just remember walking in that morning and you know,

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Speaker 1: we hid. We headed in at first light, so the

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Speaker 1: sun was still rising. It was a beautiful orange sunrise

314
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Speaker 1: on the horizon. I remember the color of the sky

315
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Speaker 1: was was really notable. And We're hiking along and I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing the click click click click click cluck kind of

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Speaker 1: slowly working behind me, and it was just I just

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Speaker 1: remember smiling. I have a distinct memory of just smiling

319
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Speaker 1: and and thinking in my head, man, this is this

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Speaker 1: is it? Like this is pretty cool? And and it was.

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Speaker 1: We hiked in there, got to a spot where you

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Speaker 1: thought would be a decent place to set up a

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Speaker 1: spike camp, and we threw up tents and put your

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Speaker 1: mule on the line. And then the idea was to

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Speaker 1: try to get a late morning scouting slash hunting session

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Speaker 1: in before before actually having an evening hunt. And the

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Speaker 1: idea was to spend this part of the day with you, Clay,

328
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Speaker 1: see what you do, see what your perspective would be

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Speaker 1: on the landscape. UM, you would kind of share with

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Speaker 1: me everything you think I should be thinking about, the ideas,

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00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 1: the strategies, the tactics that might work here. UM, show

332
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Speaker 1: me around. And then after that I was going to

333
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Speaker 1: head out on my own. So you and myself and

334
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,040
Speaker 1: then our two Cameramon Tyler and another guy, Joe took

335
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 1: off for hike. Um, do you want to walk me

336
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: through you know, what was on your mind? Like, what

337
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,040
Speaker 1: was it that you wanted to show me? What were

338
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 1: the most important ideas or tips or concepts that you

339
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,360
Speaker 1: in your mind were thinking, Man, you've got to get

340
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 1: this across the mark for him to have success. What

341
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,160
Speaker 1: were those key things as we were walking out there.

342
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Speaker 1: You know, first of all, when you're hunting like this

343
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 1: or any kind of backcountry hunting, where you're camping and hunting,

344
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 1: is you want to pick a campsite that is far

345
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 1: enough away from where you feel like the game is

346
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,359
Speaker 1: that you're not going to spook them, but also not

347
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,120
Speaker 1: so are away that you wear yourself out coming back

348
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,479
Speaker 1: and forth the camp. And Uh, I'd say we got

349
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:11,639
Speaker 1: close to right. We probably I like to be about

350
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 1: a half a mile from where I think I'm gonna hunt.

351
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 1: Because what you found out because you guys ended up

352
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 1: going in further than we anticipated, mark, is that you

353
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 1: guys were hiking like a mile and a quarter or

354
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: something to get to where you were hunting, or actually

355
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 1: to the farthest place eventually. Yeah, and and that's a

356
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:39,160
Speaker 1: little bit too far just to utilize to just be efficient,

357
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 1: but you kind of gotta it'd be better to be

358
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 1: conservative than not, because when you bring in an equine animal,

359
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 1: you're bringing in a little more disturbance than they're used

360
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 1: to and you have a camp and you know you

361
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: might have a fire. So that was number one. And

362
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 1: we were on a big, big, long ridge top and

363
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: essentially why I brought you there was we were gonna

364
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 1: hunt saddles. And these saddles are essentially low spots, low swags,

365
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 1: like the seat of a saddle in between two high

366
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,959
Speaker 1: points on a ridge. So if you have a if

367
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 1: you have a long ridge, that ridge is not gonna

368
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: be just flat all the way across the top. It's

369
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 1: gonna kind of go up and down and up and down,

370
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,680
Speaker 1: and those low spots, deer that are traveling from let's

371
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: say the north side to the south side of the

372
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: mountain are gonna travel through those saddles. And any given

373
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 1: ridge might have multiple saddles on it, and that's what

374
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: we were trying to capitalize on that. And I said

375
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Speaker 1: this before to mark there in any given set of mountains,

376
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 1: there are probably ten things that deer do every single

377
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: day that is predictable. So this is just one of

378
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: the things that they do, and you're trying to calculate

379
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 1: the amount of time you have to hunt, and a

380
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 1: I bet a deer is gonna do this one thing

381
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,120
Speaker 1: during the time I'm hunting. And what we were doing

382
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: was hunting saddles. And the reason I like the saddles

383
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 1: high on these ridges is that the wind that's consistent. Typically,

384
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 1: if you get off down on the side of the

385
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: mountain automatically, your wind is much less predictable, and there

386
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 1: are ways to predict what will do and you can

387
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: hunt the sides of mountains effectively, for sure. But that

388
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,919
Speaker 1: was the main thing. And what I was hoping to

389
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 1: find was signed in some of these saddles, and the

390
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: deer aren't gonna make a ton of sign right in

391
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: the middle of a saddle necessarily, you know, there might,

392
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: but but we were looking forward. We were hoping to

393
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: find some rubs. I was hoping to find a big scrape.

394
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 1: And one of the saddles we came through, which we

395
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: really didn't, but we walked three quarters of a mile

396
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: or so and found just a little bit of bucks

397
00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: on a few acorns. And I had seen some year

398
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: in that area the weekend before. I've done a little

399
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: bit of scouting before, and so we felt like there

400
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 1: were some deer in the area, but certainly it's not

401
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: the kind of place with your typical standards for assessing

402
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: deer sign You wouldn't go there and go, Holy cow,

403
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: this place is smoking hot. I mean at all? Would

404
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 1: you agree, Mark? And I think one of that that

405
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: was one of the biggest takeaways for me from our

406
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 1: our morning spent together, was that you kept reiterating to me,

407
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: you know, don't expect Michigan sign or Iowa sign or whatever.

408
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: You know. One I think I think we decided we

409
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 1: need to make a chart or something where we would say,

410
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: one Arkansas rub equals ten Michigan rubs, one Arkansas scrape

411
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: equals fifteen Michigan scrapes, or something like that, because it's

412
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: just so different. And I think that if you hadn't

413
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: told me that, I would have been much less confident

414
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: in these areas. I would have been thinking, man, we

415
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 1: gotta keep looking because there's there's nothing here. You know,

416
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: one scrape means nothing to me at home, um, But

417
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 1: to me or to you, you're saying, hey, one scrape

418
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: here equals a lot back home. So that was very

419
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: eye opening and helpful for me. And you know, I

420
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: want to reiterate to that this was what I would

421
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 1: call interior mountain hunting. Like you could go down into

422
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: other areas in that county closer to disturbance, you know,

423
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: whether it be clear cuts where the cattle pastures, whether

424
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 1: there was you know, human disturbance and creating edge and

425
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: different stuff, and you would find just number one, more

426
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: deer and so they would leave more sign. So this

427
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: was interior mountain honey, which is where there's the least

428
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: amount of deer. But that's just where we were, so

429
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: we kind of knew what to expect, you know, yeah,

430
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah, but I'd say that that was

431
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: the main thing we were working on here, and you know,

432
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: just hunting these mountains, there's other there's other things that

433
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: you can look for, you know, benches, the heads of

434
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: these big holl us, so there's big, big long finger

435
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: big long ridges, and they have fingers that fall off

436
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: these ridges, the heads of hollows. A lot of times

437
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: there's game trails and these fingers that fall off ridges

438
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: are typically you'll find there might be a mile a

439
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: mile long ridge and there might be five fingers that

440
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: fall off of that ridge, and you might scout those

441
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: fingers and and find one finger that has some buck

442
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 1: sign and some acorns, and you know, deer move up

443
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: and down that mountain on that finger. That would be

444
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: a good strategy. But there's a lot of things you

445
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: could do. But we were hunting high saddles. Can you

446
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: can you elaborate a little bit on how you like

447
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: to hunt the saddles, because that was one of the

448
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: things like as we started walking along and you were

449
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: talking about the importans in these saddles, which is something

450
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: that James had reiterated as well. Um, you know the

451
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 1: thing I was wondering the most of I was like, Okay,

452
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: there's a few saddles out here, I'm gonna scout them.

453
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: I'm likely going to spend some time in them. But

454
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: what's the smartest way to actually set up on one? Um,

455
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: That's where my head very quickly jumped up to what

456
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: were your thoughts on that when you're sitting one of

457
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: these what's the right way to think about how you

458
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: position yourself, how you think about wind, how you expect

459
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: dear to move through them, all that kind of stuff. Yeah,

460
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: so you just have to predict the wind, based upon

461
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: the prevailing wind direction and the forecast, you know, and

462
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: if the winds out of the north, you're gonna want

463
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 1: to sit set up on the on the southern edge

464
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: of the saddle. So you know, I mean, if you

465
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: if you envision the saddle just as like a square,

466
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's got there's there's for four

467
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: directions that you could go. You know, you would you

468
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: would set up on the the down wind side of

469
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: the saddle, hug that side, and then your access point,

470
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: whatever side of the saddle you're coming into it from.

471
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: You're gonna try not to walk through that saddle because

472
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 1: ground sit in the mountains is is critical because these

473
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: deer don't they're not smelling humans very often. And you know,

474
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 1: you can try to cover your ground scent. You can,

475
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: there's stuff you can do, but still you you hope

476
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: to not have to cross through. So the ideal situation

477
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: is that you would slip into a saddle and you

478
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: would go to the favor hug the favorable side so

479
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: that you know, eighty percent of the places that deer

480
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: travels if he comes through that saddle, You're gonna be

481
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: good on wind and you just gotta be able to see.

482
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: You just that's the main thing. You just you just

483
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 1: gotta be able to see as much as possible in

484
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: that saddle. And if you hunt these saddles year after

485
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: year a lot, you you'll learn, Okay, the deer typically

486
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: hug that side over there, and maybe there would be

487
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: nothing that would indicate that that's just a inside of

488
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: this micro environment. That's typically what they do. And the

489
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: saddles that you were hunting were pretty big, bigger than most,

490
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, I think you could have probably shot a

491
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: hundred hundred plus yards and lots of places you were hunting,

492
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: which isn't entirely normal. Usually you're hunting a saddle that

493
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 1: maybe it's forty fifty yards across, you know, you can

494
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: almost you could bow hunted almost. So those are the

495
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: main things mark just visibility to be able to see

496
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: all the way across it, and then just getting where

497
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: the wind is most favorable. Yeah, okay, so here's another thing.

498
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: Then when it comes to these setups, I recall another

499
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: one of these questions I had was when do you

500
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: set up and post up in a spot like this

501
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: and hunt a saddle versus doing what James had done

502
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: a lot in the past. And which you know, we

503
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: were talking about a lot with him, and you and

504
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: I were talking about which was still hunting through these places,

505
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: so actually creeping, creeping through the mountains on foot hoping

506
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: to see one. And you had told me, well, you know,

507
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: you know, that's what James does, and sometimes you do that,

508
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: but you also like to get up actually in a

509
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: climbing saddle, you know, up at a tree and hunt

510
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: a saddle to which is what we just described. Um,

511
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: can you elaborate on that, you know, why you choose

512
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: to sit up in a tree more often than still

513
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: hunt and why James maybe still hunted a lot, uh

514
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: and less so posted up. What's your take on that?

515
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of that is just

516
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: personal preference. You know, you just have so much time

517
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: to hunt, and and James spent a lot of his

518
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: time still hunting on the ground, moving and a lot

519
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: of that was just personal preference. But I think I

520
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: would do that more, and do that more at the

521
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: beginning of a hunt when I'm trying to scout, because

522
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: that the great thing about being mobile on the ground

523
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: is and still hunting is that you are hunting, so

524
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: you're in the game, you know. But you're also scouting.

525
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: And what I would do is I might still hunt

526
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: for a morning and all of a sudden find what

527
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: I'm looking for, you know, find that saddle that's got

528
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: some sign in it, and I go, Okay, if I

529
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: sit here for two days, I'm gonna kill a deer

530
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: and and then get up in a tree and hunt.

531
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: Um so, and I think to James back, James was

532
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: most actively still hunting in the sixties, seventies and eighties,

533
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: and they're just weren't a lot of deer. So I

534
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: think he learned that, man, I could I can sit

535
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: on the side of this mountain or in a tree

536
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: for a long time and not see a deer, I

537
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: gotta go find one. I think now that we have

538
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: more deer, it's probably not as critical to move, and

539
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: it's a little it's just more conservative to just setting

540
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: a tree and wait for him. I think that's probably

541
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: the the real story, you know what I mean? Now?

542
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: That said, though, I know that you have done some

543
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: of it, and James talked to you a lot about it,

544
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: so you know, if one were to want to steal

545
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: on which was one of the things I did want

546
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 1: to do a little bit. Um what's here like one

547
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: of the best practices when try to do that, or

548
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: at least you know, what's the things that have worked

549
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: for you or that you think are important when doing

550
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Because that was that was one

551
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: of the deals I was hadn't spent any time doing

552
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: in the past. I was particularly interested in seeing like, Okay,

553
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: could this kind of thing work out here? So James

554
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: was almost exclusively still hunting using a firearm, whether it

555
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: was a muzzleloader or during the rifle season. And number one,

556
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: you got to get the wind in your favor, so

557
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: you pick where you're gonna go based upon the wind direction.

558
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: Number Two, you're moving, you're moving slow through You're moving

559
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: very slow through areas where you feel like there could

560
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: be dear So maybe you you know, you get out

561
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: of your truck and you walk to hundred yards regular speed,

562
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, and you get back there and you start

563
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: seeing a little bit of sign, you slow down. James

564
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,479
Speaker 1: has said many times to me that because the biggest

565
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: question you have when you're doing this, well, these deer

566
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: can hear me walking and dry leaves? Why am I

567
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: not spooking every animal around here? And uh? And he

568
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: just said, you know, deer walk and make noise. But

569
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: what deer do is they take a series of steps

570
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: and then they stop. They take a series of steps

571
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: and then they stop. And he said, you can about

572
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: walk right up to a deer if you do that,

573
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: And it makes sense. I mean, we've all watched deer

574
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: and deer's out there feeding and it hears something, what

575
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: does it do? It picks up its head and it

576
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: watches and after some time it puts its head back down.

577
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: And you know, you obviously you're not trying to get

578
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: right up on the deer. You're just trying to get

579
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: within sight of the deer. And he's had a lot

580
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: of success doing that. And I can't say that I have.

581
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: I'm not. I've just not spent a ton of time

582
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: still hunting like that. Nine percent of the time I'm

583
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: I'm stand hunting the mountains or hunting on the ground.

584
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: Just and uh. But then number what I've asked him

585
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: several times is how do you know when to walk fast,

586
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: when to walk slow? How much time to spend? And

587
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: he just kind of laughs and he says, you know,

588
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: you just go with your gut, you know, And he said,

589
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: I might I might spend a day inside of a

590
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: quarter mile stretch, but always moving just a little bit,

591
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: you know. Um, but he also might might walk much

592
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: further than that. And there are times when when he's

593
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: moving fast, times when he's moving slow, you know, using rises.

594
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: Probably the final thing that I hear him talk about

595
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: is using these rises and changes in topography to just

596
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: creep over just you know, if you get a little

597
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: flat and you kind of come up to that flat,

598
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, just creep your eyes over and just go

599
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: real slow while your body is being shielded by the train.

600
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: Just kind of probably standard standard stuff that Western spot

601
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: and stock guys would understand. So so we did a

602
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: little bit of both of those things. I'll uh foreshadow

603
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: here a little bit and and say that we did

604
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: some of the stand hunting up in the saddle up

605
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: in a tree, and then we also tried some of

606
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 1: this creeping along still hunting stuff. And before we lose Tyler,

607
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: he's on a plane and about to leave. I do

608
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: want to get Tyler you're quick perspective on what you

609
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: thought about the two different styles of hunting without giving

610
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: away what actually happened. Um, what did you think about

611
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: getting up into his saddle for the first time in

612
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: hunting in a tree. That was something we had to

613
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: teach you like that week. What do you think about

614
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: that versus when we were doing the creep along still hunting.

615
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: What was your experience of those two things? Um, well, yeah,

616
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: it was. It was fun to get up in the

617
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: tree and learn that process. But you know, as I've

618
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: done a lot more filming on hunts in you know,

619
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 1: the West where you're hiking around and and so I after,

620
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: you know, I have a little bit of a do

621
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: after a few hours in the tree and we weren't

622
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: really seeing much. I was like thwilling my thumbs a

623
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: little bit. But the spotting stocks was fun. Um, you know,

624
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: definitely that like you were talking about, you know, like

625
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: like James said, moving like a deer. Um, take a

626
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: few staffs stop, take a few steps stop. We had

627
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: that program going where I was what twenty yards behind

628
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: you bark and then I was just I was just

629
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: trying to film you from afar and like and just

630
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: kind of walking you off and do the uh you know,

631
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: just be the deer, and just I kind of enjoyed that.

632
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: It was nice, you know, walking a beautiful part of

633
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: the country, even though we weren't really seeing much of

634
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: the time, but both were you know, had their I

635
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: mean we weren't seeing much deer and either either scenarios.

636
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: But you know, there was when you're stuck up in

637
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: the tree, you uh, I feel like You're like, hey,

638
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: maybe there's something over there, and maybe I have that

639
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: like scatter brain mentality where I'm like, you know what,

640
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: we should go check something else out. But once you're

641
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: in the tree, you're kind of you're there, right if

642
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: you guys know better than anybody. But so yeah, we

643
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: uh I kind of say I would hear the spot

644
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: and stock to send the cameraan because you're moving around

645
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: all the more. But but it was they were not

646
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 1: you know, both not really say we weren't seeing there.

647
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: So either way we were doing it, we were not

648
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: seeing dear so you could walk around and look for

649
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: deer or stand tree on my saddle and results. Yeah.

650
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: Well that was kind of a nice thing about it,

651
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: was that it was actually, um, you know, we had

652
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 1: those options. So in some hunts where you're just stuck

653
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 1: doing one thing, you're you're just stuck with it and

654
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: that's the way to do it, and you have a

655
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: certain level of I don't know if it's stress, but

656
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: just um discontent. Knowing that well, there's no other change

657
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: you can make in this case, at least, you know,

658
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: I was able to said, well, let's change it up,

659
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: and then you get this new boost of enthusiasm, a

660
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: little bit more excitement and optimism again. And you know,

661
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: and that's that's actually what we did, because we hunted

662
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: that first night in the saddle. I was able to

663
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: sneak in down this ridge, got to one of these saddles.

664
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: It had been a spot where we were when we

665
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: were scouting that first morning. We found one little, tiny

666
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 1: little rub that was the only sign we found. Um,

667
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: So I thought, well, there's this little rub. There were

668
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: a bunch of acorns in the ridge back behind us,

669
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: and then now here's this saddle, so let's let's watch it.

670
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,919
Speaker 1: So you and me and Joe all climbed up into

671
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: trees sat up there that night and at you know,

672
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: the last half hour of daylight. So we did have

673
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: one dough move across the saddle way off in the distance,

674
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I thought that was that was

675
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: encouraging to at least see a deer um. But the

676
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: next morning we sat the same spot and saw nothing.

677
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: And so this is where having these other options was

678
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 1: pretty appealing, because after seeing one deer over the course

679
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: of a lot of hours sitting in that tree, you know,

680
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 1: it was pretty easy for me to say, all right, well,

681
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: we've got another card we can pull here, let's get

682
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: on the ground, let's still hunt, let's scout, and let's

683
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: try to find something. You know, that's that's a little

684
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: bit more um oh, that's a little bit more promising.

685
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 1: So we had that option, which which definitely helped helped

686
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: a lot. That's a good point about having those I

687
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: didn't really think about it like that, but like getting

688
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: that new enthusiasm from having to get a couple of options.

689
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: I mean in the moment, I didn't really think about that,

690
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: but that it's to the good point. But it also

691
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: can make the itch to switch mode is a little

692
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 1: bit too. You know, you're like, okay, this is working.

693
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: You know, you can get a little bit that way.

694
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: But we saw a fox that morning. I forgot about that.

695
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 1: That was cool to see that. That was that was

696
00:38:45,840 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: a cool encounter. So so yeah, like you know, like

697
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: me and Tyre were saying, it's it's nice to have

698
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: these options and these things to work with. UM. And

699
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: after that that first morning, on the second day, I

700
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: decided to get out of the tree and kind of

701
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: poke around a little bit more. UM. You know, one thing,

702
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: Clay that we haven't talked about but but did actually

703
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: feature into our scouting was looking for acorns. UM, can

704
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 1: you elaborate a little bit on how important acorns are

705
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: and this part of the country and this specific scenario,

706
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: because you know, I remember thinking two things. There are

707
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: two things that really well, three things that stood up

708
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: to me if there was like the big three that

709
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: was in my mind the entire time I was hunting

710
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: on my own after spending time with you and James.

711
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 1: It was one, trust your terrain feature that being the settle.

712
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: Number two was remember sign here is different, so don't

713
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: get you know, too concerned by the lack of it.

714
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: And number three was acorns. Why is that so important?

715
00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 1: What are you looking for when it comes to that?

716
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: I remember when we were walking around, you spent a

717
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: lot of time looking at the ground and looking at

718
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: acorns and analyzing the acorns you found. Um, what was

719
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: your take on that? So you're always looking for trends

720
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: with acorns? I mean that any anybody around here. If

721
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: you were just to walk up to a deer hunter

722
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: in the store, their high probability you would say, you

723
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: got any acorns over there, or you know, acorns falling yet,

724
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: because that is just a key food source for when

725
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: we're hunting and talking with talking with some of these

726
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: biologists that I know this part of the country really well.

727
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: It's interesting because acorns in the broad scheme of a

728
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: white tail's diet are not as critical as we feel

729
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: like they would be. But the time we're hunting them,

730
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 1: it is. You know, it's there. It's their primary food

731
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: source or what they're their preferred food source. And so

732
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: during October November, that's what we're looking for his acrons

733
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: and man acron mast. Predicting acren mast, even with our

734
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: best science, is very, very difficult, and so I love

735
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: hearing guys talk about acrons because all all through the summer,

736
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 1: you know, it would be like, man, we had a

737
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: frost and April and you know, my rooster crowed three

738
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: times that morning, and I think the acorns are gonna

739
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: make up high, you know, and we have all this

740
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence for why the acrons are gonna make in

741
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: certain places and that's important because what happens in these

742
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: mountains is that, well, actually I believe i've I've heard

743
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: that two out of five years you will have a

744
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: very good crop of acrons in this part of the world.

745
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: So in a good crop of acrons isn't always good,

746
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: because a good crop of acorns might mean that there's

747
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: acrons in all portions of the elevation changes in the mountains.

748
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: You know, there's acrons the pie, there's acrens in the middle,

749
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: there's acorns down low. What you're the best case scenario

750
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: is that there's acorns in in pockets. There's there's sections

751
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 1: of the mountain that have a lot of acrons and

752
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: other sections that don't. And so that's what I was

753
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: looking for. But then there's these other obscure years, which

754
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 1: I would call this you're kind of obscure, is that

755
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: it's really hard to predict where they were gonna be.

756
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: There were there were there were acrens up high where

757
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: we were hunting, but not a lot, not really enough

758
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: to just draw the deer in and just be like,

759
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: this is where the deer gonna be because there's acrens

760
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: um there were some acrons down low. There were some

761
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: akrons of pie. It was hard to predict. So really

762
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: what we're hoping is on any given year that you

763
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: could say with certainty, man, the acorn is made up

764
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: high and so that's where all the game is gonna be.

765
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's kind of a descripture of what we're

766
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: the way we're thinking and talking down there. You know, now,

767
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: I remember you grabbing acorns like you. You spend a

768
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: good amount of time when we did find acorns looking

769
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: at them, grabbing them, scratching them with your knife, um,

770
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: examining the husks, all that kind of stuff that the

771
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 1: nut Ah and you were talking about. Well, I think

772
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: this means that they're fresh, or they're not fresh, or

773
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 1: you think this means the deer was eating them versus

774
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: a squirrel or something. There's probably a lot of folks

775
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 1: that have never taken the time to examine an acorn

776
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: and really read what the story is there. Can you

777
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: can you tell me what you were looking for and

778
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: what you know, what details helped you determine what actually

779
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: was happening or how recently it happened. Yeah, So I

780
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: was looking for fresh acorns that fell this year, and

781
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: I think what can happen is well, first of all,

782
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: there's there's to two types of oak trees that we're

783
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 1: dealing with. We're dealing with red oaks and white oaks.

784
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: White oaks fall and they sprout basic rely immediately and

785
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: so they'll send out a root shoot down and they'll

786
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: and then in the spring they'll send the shoot up.

787
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: But what that means is that a white oak acre

788
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 1: and begins to break down really quickly as soon as

789
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: it hits the ground. That's important. Number two, the red oaks.

790
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: The red oaks lay on the ground through the whole

791
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: winter and don't start to sprout until the spring. And

792
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: so what that means is that there's a there's a

793
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: shorter window of time that a white oak acre and

794
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: is laying on the ground. And a white oak acre

795
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 1: and will not last through the winter. It will rot

796
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: or or you know when it when it sprouts, it

797
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: essentially becomes not as edible to an animal. Okay, a

798
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: red oak acre and falls on the ground and it'll

799
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: lay there and in March it'll look and in the

800
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: meat will be just as good as it was when

801
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: it fell. And October and so what can happen mark

802
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 1: is when you have a bumper crop of red oak acorns.

803
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: They will persist. They just they just last longer on

804
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 1: the ground. And you might be looking at a red

805
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: oak acre and from two years ago that the hole

806
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: still looks good, but it's actually rotten on the inside,

807
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: just because it it didn't sprout for whatever reason, the

808
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 1: acren didn't turn into a tree and it wasn't eaten.

809
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: And you'll be walking through the woods and see a

810
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: whole acren laying on the ground and it is of

811
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: no value to wildlife. So I you know, you pick

812
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: up an acre and you try to determine if it's

813
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: from if it's this year and it's good food for wildlife,

814
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: or it's last year's haul that's empty. And so the

815
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: way you can tell is just the weight of it.

816
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 1: You know, old acre is gonna be phil hollow, and

817
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: then you crack it open and you know it's just

818
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: mush on the inside and and uh, you crack open

819
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: a good acren and you have this white acorn nutty

820
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: me inside of it. And I think a lot of guys,

821
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: if they're not really paying attention, might go into an

822
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: area and think, man, I saw a lot of acorns, Well,

823
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: they saw last year's acrens. You know that that's that's

824
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: the long version of what I was doing. And then

825
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: you're also trying to look into in the trees as well,

826
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: especially the time of year we were there. We were

827
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: there in mid October, so there were still acorns in

828
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: the trees, and an acorn in the tree is actually

829
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: as valuable as an acorn on the ground, because that

830
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: means that tomorrow that stand is gonna be as good

831
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: as it is today or maybe better because sometimes and

832
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 1: and there's so many variables and acron production, different trees

833
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: produced different amounts. So you still have two white oaks

834
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: that look the exact same there are twenty yards apart. Genetically,

835
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: one of those might be better than the other and

836
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: just produce more acrens there. You know, there's some unfavorable

837
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: advantage to that one being there and that one being there.

838
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of oh that I did a

839
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: podcast with with Craig um Harpologists Craig Harper, Yeah, Craig Harper,

840
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: University of Tennessee. We did a whole nerd out session

841
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: on acorns and oak trees and it's just fascinating the production,

842
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: how they produced and whatnot. But you know. So, so

843
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: we're walking through the woods and you know, if you've

844
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: got bunoculars, you can look up in some of these

845
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: trees if you can get side of the canopy. But

846
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: you know, you're looking up hoping to see a bunch

847
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: of acorns in a tree, you know. Um, so that's yeah,

848
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: that's the acorn story. You said that one acorn in

849
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: the tree is as valuable as and acorn on the ground.

850
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: I feel like there's some kind of like saying there.

851
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: You know how they say, like a bird in the

852
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: hand is better than two in the bush or whatever. Well,

853
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: there's there's gotta be some way we can relate to

854
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: an acorn in the trees a valuables and acorn on

855
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: the ground. There's something there about life we could figure

856
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 1: out some day. Ye yep. But yeah, so we're looking

857
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: for a corns. Found some, but not a lot. Uh acorns? Sorry,

858
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 1: uh and uh. He did the saddle the first evening,

859
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: saw the one dough hunted there again in the morning,

860
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: saw nothing. And so I thought to myself, well, I

861
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,479
Speaker 1: only have two two days or two and a half

862
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: days left, and I was I was worried about sitting

863
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: anyone place for a whole lot of time, given how

864
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: little I had to work with. UM, So I thought,

865
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: all right, well, let's let's try to poke around a

866
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: little bit more here, explore and and try the still

867
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: hunting thing. And so that's what I did that afternoon. Meanwhile,

868
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: you had left and you were hunting a totally different area. Um.

869
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: Was there anything of note that you saw or that

870
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: you did when you were hunting on your own? Um,

871
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: that might be, you know that were there any things

872
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: that you were doing that were different than what I

873
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: was doing that it might be useful to understand about

874
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: different ways of hunting this train. You know, Mark, what

875
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: I primarily did the whole time you were hunting was

876
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: I was. I was scouting. For the most part. I

877
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 1: did very little sitting. I think I hunted one afternoon

878
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: where I stayed in the same spot for you know,

879
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: four hours and didn't move. The entire rest of the

880
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: time I was, I was on my mule and I

881
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: was just covering a bunch of ground, just trying to

882
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: find I went into some new areas. Um. So I was.

883
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: And the reason I wasn't hunting with you is I

884
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: didn't want to get in the way or use up

885
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: some potential spots that you would use. So you know,

886
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: I was at camp with you at least one night there,

887
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 1: but I had gone off and I didn't really find

888
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 1: anything encouraging during the three days that I was stomping around.

889
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: And honestly, I don't even think I saw I do

890
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: not believe that I even saw it deer. And I

891
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: mean I went miles and miles on that mule. And

892
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: if you're on the back of a mule, if you

893
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 1: see a deer, you're just gonna spook it most of

894
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,959
Speaker 1: the time. But if you see deer, that's a day

895
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: to point, a very good day to point of Okay,

896
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 1: there was a deer there at nine fifteen this morning,

897
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: So why is he there? And you know, will it

898
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 1: be there tomorrow or would there be more deer through

899
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: here today? You know, so just scouting, speaking of that,

900
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: speaking of you, Scotty on your mule, I remember I

901
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,439
Speaker 1: was worried. One of the things I was worried about

902
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: out there was how do these deer react to human presence?

903
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: Because you know, there's some places where deer are super

904
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: kg about, you know, walking around there, and if if

905
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: you walk through an ara once that might you know,

906
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: shut them down. There's other places where they're so used

907
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: to people being around that it's not as big as

908
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: a deal. Um. I remember thinking, man, we're hiking, you know,

909
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: to get to that first settle. As a mile and

910
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: a half to get to that first settle, I hunted something. Man,

911
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: I just hiked a mile and a half across this

912
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: ridge and I just laying down a ground trail that

913
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: will eliminate all this area behind me the whole time.

914
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: And then later after that two days of hunting or

915
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: the two sets of hunting and seeing nothing, and then

916
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: I decided, okay, I want to do some still hunting

917
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 1: and explore more. I want to scout more to figure

918
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: this out. In the back of my mind, I was

919
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: also constantly asking myself, well, how far can you push

920
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: it without spook and stuff too much? I was always

921
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: trying to I just didn't have the context or history

922
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: to know, like how sensitive our deer in a big

923
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: woods area like this on public land to to me

924
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: being here or me having been there yesterday. What's your

925
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 1: take on that? What's your experience been? Are they forgiving

926
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 1: or you know, once you walk through an area hunting

927
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:35,800
Speaker 1: area once or twice, it's it's going to be shot.

928
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: You know, I would say these deer probably somewhere in

929
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: the middle of that pendulum. You know, there's certainly not forgiving.

930
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I think this is not

931
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 1: true wilderness in this in the very by definition it's not.

932
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 1: And so these deer experienced humans coming through there. And

933
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, you're always trying to minimize the amount of

934
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: scent that you're leaving. And I've I've had a lot

935
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: of different responses from deer with ground scent, you know,

936
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I've had and I know you have to mark.

937
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes you walk into a stand and you know,

938
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: an hour later a deer just walks right over your

939
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 1: ground scent and doesn't even show any sign of nervousness.

940
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: And at other times you walk in and you know

941
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: you've done whatever you're gonna do for sent control, whether

942
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: it's you know a lot of times I just stomped

943
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: my feet into the dirt and try to get dirt

944
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: up on my boots. Sometimes I like using cover sense

945
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 1: to cover ground scent, whether that's doe, estris or something

946
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: not an attractant. Well, not estra stough. I think you

947
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: can use estra stough, but a doe dough, urine, synthetic

948
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: dough you're in just something that's not gonna spook them.

949
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: Or if you're hunting in areas with livestock walking through

950
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: you know, whatever you got there, cattle, cattle, uh, cattle droppings, whatever,

951
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, get that on your scent on your boots

952
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: and cover that ground center because you are leaving ground

953
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: scent wherever you're going. But boy, it's just unpredictable. But

954
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: I wasn't too worried about us walking through those saddles

955
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: and and dear and if you did it every day

956
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: for a week. Yeah, I was more concerned about just

957
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 1: our scent, especially with Camberman and whatnot, just blowing off

958
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: down the side of the mountain and settling down into

959
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 1: where those deer were bedding and then going like, hey,

960
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: there's like five guys up on top of the mountain.

961
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: So so this this is the perfect place then to

962
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 1: dive into the thorny controversial topic of scent control. Clay,

963
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: I feel like I've been targeted. Yeah, well we've talked

964
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 1: about in the past a little bit, but I feel like,

965
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: you know, since we spent some time together in Arkansas

966
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,399
Speaker 1: and then you know, we're doing a whole one week

967
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 1: in November show where uh you dove into this topic

968
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: a little bit, uh, accusing accusing me of being like

969
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 1: a bag of pooh and thinking that, yeah, the bag

970
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 1: sent for you, but the pooh inside the bag isn't.

971
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: I think you made some kind of analogy like that,

972
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 1: So I may have. I wasn't directly targeting you, though, Mark.

973
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: So here's here's what I want to get your perspective on.

974
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: You and me were talking about this a little bit

975
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 1: with your dad too, and um when we we actually

976
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: stayed at your parents house one night in between trips,

977
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 1: and uh, you you told me that your position on

978
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: scent control has actually evolved a little bit and that

979
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 1: you understand my perspective maybe a little more than you

980
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: did even months ago or a year or something. Can

981
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,240
Speaker 1: you can you give me a the what your stance

982
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: on scent control has been over the last you know,

983
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: five to ten years or whatever, and then be what

984
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: is your slightly evolved perspective as of right now if

985
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: that's still true? May it's not true? Yeah? Now, basically,

986
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: my dad grew up inside of the he came of

987
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: of fruition in his hunting world right at the time

988
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: that commercial scent control products began to come out in

989
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: the early to mid nineties, so he used them extensively.

990
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: So I grew up with a I mean you you Mark,

991
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: he could go up to Michigan with you right now

992
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: and hunt and you and him would I really feel

993
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: like beyond like the exact same page with every just

994
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: the very detail oriented sent control you know, not dressing,

995
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: not using your hunting clothes in the truck, not you know,

996
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: pulling your rubber boots out of a scent contained box

997
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: with baking soda. I mean like he, he did it

998
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 1: to the fullest extent. So I grew up hunting that

999
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 1: way for years, years and years and years. And when

1000
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: I went to Call and kind of left the Gary

1001
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 1: Newcomb deer camp, it was it was more an issue

1002
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: of just practicality, Like I had limited amount of time

1003
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: to hunt, limited money to buy sent control products, and

1004
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:18,800
Speaker 1: I started hunting different though than he did because of terrain.

1005
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 1: I started hunting uh private land where we were hunting

1006
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: the same stands over and over based on terrain features

1007
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: in these lands. And I pretty much just was like

1008
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: the wind's blowing out of the south if I'm setting

1009
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: in that tree. It doesn't matter what I smell like.

1010
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 1: And so I started not using sent control practices and

1011
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 1: and I really poke fun. And if your people are

1012
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: listening to this and they've heard me, I love to

1013
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: poke fun at people because I think it's fun. I

1014
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: think it's fun to argue about this stuff because it

1015
00:56:56,719 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: is so insignificant in the sense of this is really

1016
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: if this is our biggest problem in life. If your

1017
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: biggest problem is deciding whether you should use syn control

1018
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: or not, that you've got a fantastic life, you know.

1019
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: So that's why this is a fun topic. But it's

1020
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: highly divisive. So but my comments are not lightly spewed

1021
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: out there just from you know, two seasons of anecdotal evidence. Basically,

1022
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: I started not using scent control and just hunting the wind,

1023
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 1: and I killed deer, you know, I mean it just

1024
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: it just didn't matter. If the wind is predictable, you

1025
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: know where the deer are gonna be, you know, seventy

1026
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: percent of the time, it doesn't matter what you smell like.

1027
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: That's just the bottom line. So that's the way I

1028
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: hunted real hard for lots of years. And then I

1029
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: was like, I recognized the amount of energy effort, time,

1030
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: money that people were putting into scent control, and I

1031
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: was kind of like, hey, you don't have to do that,

1032
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: just use the use the in Okay. That So that

1033
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: that's section one. Section two is this idea which you have,

1034
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:10,919
Speaker 1: and and I agree with this. There there are things

1035
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: you can do. There's science behind some sent control products

1036
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: that probably reduce your human odor, that do reduce your

1037
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: human od that's science. What Clay Nucom says is that

1038
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: in his experience, I have not found that amount that

1039
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: it does reduce your scent to be a functional value

1040
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 1: in the field. And that's kind of where I stand.

1041
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 1: That being said, Um, I mean, I just think because

1042
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: I'll tell you two years ago, I started kind of

1043
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: getting back into hunting a specific deer is what it was.

1044
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: I had a big deer that was on some really

1045
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: small properties, and so I thought, man, I'm gonna dial

1046
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: the scent control back up. Let's just try it, let's

1047
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 1: just go all in. So two years ago, uh, I

1048
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 1: started washing my clothes, all the all the clothes, and

1049
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 1: set free bags, baking soda in the in the bags,

1050
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: pine and cedar chips in there, using the spray, using

1051
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 1: ozone products. And now this might be anecdotal. The first

1052
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: time that I put all my energy back into sent control,

1053
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: I went out and had dear smell me at daylight.

1054
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: And I'm not kidding Mark and I I almost took

1055
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: it as a sign just like you're wasting your time.

1056
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: Uh really it just had deer just blow at me

1057
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: that just hardly got down wind. And I was just like,

1058
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: I think it's because he go in the woods with

1059
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 1: a gallon of tuna fish with you every day I do.

1060
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:50,479
Speaker 1: This is gonna be used against me. No, No, see

1061
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: at the at at the sick Control, I wouldn't have

1062
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 1: done that. You know, I wouldn't have done it. Um No,

1063
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: so can't Can you reduced human odor with these products? Yes?

1064
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: I do. I believe you can. Um do the ozone

1065
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: products work. I have a hundred percent believe the science

1066
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: of ozone. I mean it works. What I have yet

1067
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 1: to find is to work real consistently in the field. Um.

1068
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 1: I am swayed when people tell me that it works,

1069
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: like I had. I've had two guys in the last

1070
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: week and they didn't know kind of my banter about this,

1071
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 1: and they were like, yeah, man, I started using ozonics

1072
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:33,439
Speaker 1: when I was in a in a in a deer

1073
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: blind and I stopped getting smelled. And I'm like, okay, yeah,

1074
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: I sorry to argue with that. Also, there's a ton

1075
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: of guys that I know that have had the same thing,

1076
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: the same scenario, and it not work. I guess my

1077
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: my philosophy is that there's only so much energy, effort,

1078
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: time and money that we can put into hunting. And

1079
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: I'm always looking for limiting factors inside of hunting. What

1080
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: is the real the real problem, What is the real

1081
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: thing that keeps you from being successful? And I have

1082
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 1: found for me that it is not that sent control

1083
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:16,439
Speaker 1: products are not in the sphere of things that make

1084
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: my success rate go way up. That that's all um,

1085
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: that and and and and then I guess the other

1086
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 1: core component of what I'm saying is that, yes, sent

1087
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: control products can reduce your scent, but I do not

1088
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: think that as significant in the field. Because if clay

1089
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 1: Nukem is it a odor with no scent control, wind

1090
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: is blowing forty yards away a deer, a doe walks through,

1091
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: my scent blows smells me like crazy. Scenario to Clay

1092
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: Nukem using full throttle scent control using ozone products deer

1093
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: walks forty yards down from his scent into his into

1094
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: his wind. I find that, dear still spooks, you know,

1095
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: I mean it just it just still spooks. Now, was

1096
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: there less out or yeah? Did the deer? How did

1097
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 1: that dear interpret that? I don't know, but I've not

1098
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:16,919
Speaker 1: seen that, dear. Just go, well, he's probably not there.

1099
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: He's probably he was probably here two hours ago, and

1100
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: then just walk through it. So anyway, no, So Mark,

1101
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: aside from me, like, I'm not trying to incite argument,

1102
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 1: like what what do you think about that? Do you think?

1103
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,919
Speaker 1: What would you say? Yea? So, so first I will

1104
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: acknowledge that you're you're onto like something that makes a

1105
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: lot of sense and that I grew with in in

1106
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, which is sevent the time when

1107
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 1: the winds predictable, you don't need to worry about sent

1108
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: at all, and it's it's not a big deal. And

1109
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: you know, it depends on how much energy you want

1110
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: to put into it, and if the return on that

1111
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: energy is not worth it, especially if scent of the time,

1112
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: you know, the end is just the way you want it,

1113
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: and you can play the wind and deer will never

1114
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:04,919
Speaker 1: be down wind of you, then you're great and you're

1115
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: gravy and your gold and then it's fine. And I

1116
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 1: also understand that there's certain situations where you simply can't

1117
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: pull off a strong scent control regimen because of the

1118
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: limiting factors of the hunt. Like the hunt that we

1119
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 1: did in Arkansass that we're talking about, there's no way

1120
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: I could have really practice cent control because we're camping

1121
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: up there for a week. You know, you're sleeping in

1122
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,919
Speaker 1: the same stuff and the tent you're having, Like, even

1123
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: if we wanted to, it would be nearly impossible. And

1124
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: if we did want to try to practice scent control

1125
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 1: on that hunt, it would be miserable. Um, you know,

1126
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: can't have a fire, can't you know? You have to

1127
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 1: have all sorts of different clothes and try to bring

1128
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 1: extra storage to keep stuff clean, and try to bring

1129
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 1: all this extracent control stuff. It's just not realistic in

1130
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: a situation like that. So in that scenario, I get it,

1131
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: like it's just not gonna work. Um. But and and

1132
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: to the point you made in the One Week in

1133
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: November episode, You're like, hey, you can do everything you

1134
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: want to the bag, but if there's a bunch of

1135
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 1: crap in the bag. The deer is still gonna smell you, right,

1136
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 1: And you were saying the bag is like all your

1137
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: clothing and try and keep that scent free. Doesn't change

1138
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: the fact that there's a stinky human in that bag.

1139
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 1: All of that is true. All that is true and accurate,

1140
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 1: and all that I think makes it really hard for cent.

1141
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 1: It makes it really really hard, nearly impossible to keep

1142
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: deer from smelling you. That's said, Yes, seventy percent of

1143
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: the time there's consistent winds or seventy percent of the time,

1144
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 1: you know where deer are gonna be, and you know

1145
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: you can just make sure your wind is safe. What

1146
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: I'm worried about is that other thirty percent of the time.

1147
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 1: And you mentioned how right right for you? You're limiting

1148
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 1: factor isn't the wind. There's all these other bigger problems

1149
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 1: you need to deal with to kill a deer. Well,

1150
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: what if I've already checked the boxes and all of

1151
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: the other things, and what if I'm hunting in the

1152
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: place where Man, it's that you just don't know where

1153
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: the deer are gonna because there's so many deer here

1154
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: and it's unpredictable how they move or there's shifting winds

1155
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 1: um or or guess what these are wild animals And

1156
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 1: and yes, seventy percent of the time that buck is

1157
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: going to go out in front of me through the

1158
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 1: pinch point. But what about that one time on November

1159
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 1: seven when he does something crazy and he comes behind

1160
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 1: me in the place I've never seen the buck go before.

1161
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: What do you do in that situation when you are

1162
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 1: only counting on the wind being in your favor and

1163
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 1: you didn't do anything else. I'm worried about these little things,

1164
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: those little moments. Where can I stop you right there

1165
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 1: because I've got a question that that's a fantastic example.

1166
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 1: But have you seen dear be dead down wind of

1167
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 1: you within yards that you honestly knew that they got

1168
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: your wind, but they went ahead and walked through it.

1169
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: And let me let me put a caveat on that too.

1170
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 1: I think there wind is so un scent and wind

1171
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: are so unobservable by human senses. We can't smell at

1172
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 1: that level. Number one, Number two, you can't see it

1173
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 1: with your eyes. And number three like because I could

1174
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: tell you times when I've seen dear walk dead down

1175
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: mind wind to me and not smell me and it

1176
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 1: was because the thermals there is because it's something I

1177
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: couldn't see. It wasn't that they that I fooled him

1178
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: because I wouldn't use them sink control. Do you have

1179
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 1: some real examples of when a deer should have smelled

1180
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: you and didn't because of your sin control practice? Great question,

1181
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: and and so my answer to that is absolutely hundreds

1182
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 1: of hundreds of examples of that. But I will preface

1183
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 1: that by saying that I have if I have hundreds

1184
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 1: of examples of and maybe maybe it's a dozens, but

1185
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: dozens or hundreds of examples were dear definitely were down

1186
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 1: wind of me, and I could tell you for a

1187
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 1: fact that I observed them analyzing the wind. If that's

1188
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: the case, I can also tell you that there are

1189
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: thousands where they got down wind of me and still

1190
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: did wind me. So all this is to say that

1191
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 1: if you do every if I were, if I do

1192
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: everything right. So first I'm talking about there's a small

1193
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 1: percentage of situations where the wind, but we're playing the

1194
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: wind wouldn't help me. Okay, so we're talking about this

1195
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 1: thirty time, and then within that thirty percent time, if

1196
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 1: I do everything right, I'm still getting winded maybe on

1197
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 1: average seven times at ten. So now I'm talking about

1198
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: there's a thirty percent of the time you're hunting where

1199
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: this applies, and then all that only thirty percent of

1200
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 1: those times do I actually pull it off. But that

1201
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: is worth it for me. So because if that one time,

1202
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: if I'm just getting five percent better chance of killing

1203
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 1: a deer or killing the deer I'm after, or whatever

1204
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 1: it is, that little bump is worth it to me

1205
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:51,800
Speaker 1: because of the time and energy I invest into all

1206
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 1: this stuff, and I want that little extra bump. I

1207
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: would if if the one time that this actually works

1208
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: happens to be the time when it's a oh that

1209
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 1: walks through this down wind hole and she stops and

1210
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 1: she sends you know when. The reason why, I can

1211
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: tell you without a doubt, like not anecdote, I can

1212
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 1: tell you I could point to dozens and dozens of

1213
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 1: deer that did this. I can tell you with confidence

1214
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 1: that they were within the cone of my wind and

1215
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 1: they were considering what's up there is because typically when

1216
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 1: you're using an ozone product um which helps this a lot,

1217
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:28,640
Speaker 1: they'll stop, they'll hit your wind trail, and they're win

1218
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: that wind cone and they'll be like, oh, there's something

1219
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:33,840
Speaker 1: up there. I've had this happen with ozone. I think

1220
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 1: also using like a cover like nose jam or something

1221
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 1: helps with this um where they will hit your wind

1222
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:41,800
Speaker 1: and they will stop and be like, oh, this is

1223
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,760
Speaker 1: something and they'll stop, they'll lift their nose up, they'll

1224
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: kind of shift their head around, they'll lick their nose,

1225
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 1: they'll stare in your general direction. And then I've had

1226
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: this happen so many times, and it's like the moment

1227
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:56,519
Speaker 1: of truth. You see him hit the wind, and then

1228
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 1: you sit there and you're thinking, well, what's it gonna

1229
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 1: be today? Is am I gonna pull it off today?

1230
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:02,600
Speaker 1: Or no? And you're sitting there on the edge of

1231
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:07,439
Speaker 1: your seat and one of two things happens. Either they

1232
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: spook like normal and you're like, well, it didn't work today,

1233
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: or they analyze the situation. They sit there, they sniff,

1234
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: they sniff, they lick, they stare, and they say, hmm,

1235
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 1: there's something up there. I don't know what it is.

1236
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 1: It's not enough to really spook, but I don't know.

1237
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 1: I don't like the situation. And O those turn and

1238
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:28,760
Speaker 1: walk back the way they came or option number three

1239
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 1: is they'll do the thing, they'll sit, they'll think, they'll lick,

1240
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:35,639
Speaker 1: and they'll say nothing, keep going. And I've had all

1241
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,240
Speaker 1: three of those things happen. But I've had enough deer

1242
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: that moved right on through. They analyzed it and deemed

1243
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:45,280
Speaker 1: it safe. I've had that happen so many times, Clay

1244
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: that I even though even though seventy percent of the

1245
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: time they don't do that, the thirty percent of the

1246
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 1: time that they do that is like such a miracle

1247
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 1: and such a useful thing to me that I want

1248
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: to do all that work to get that of the

1249
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 1: third percent in time. Um Because if that's a dough

1250
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:03,759
Speaker 1: with a buck behind her that I end up shooting,

1251
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 1: that was worth it. If that's a if that's a

1252
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,839
Speaker 1: if that's a single dough that if she did spook

1253
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 1: and started blowing, fifteen deer that we're behind her would

1254
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: blow up, or the fifteen deer that are in front

1255
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: of me would blow up in the whole night's screwed.

1256
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that one deer doesn't spook

1257
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 1: because that might be the key to everything. Um So,

1258
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: so it's worth it to me, But I do know

1259
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:29,000
Speaker 1: that it's it's not gonna work most of the time.

1260
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 1: Even when you do everything right, it's a pain in

1261
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:34,839
Speaker 1: the butt. And there's certain situations when it isn't even necessary.

1262
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: All those things are true. Yeah, now that's a I

1263
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 1: can get behind that mark um for real. You know,

1264
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 1: we joke a lot about or we we get we act.

1265
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: You know, I've intentionally gone on and on about SA control.

1266
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying, and and I mean, if

1267
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 1: you say you've seen that then and you believe you,

1268
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:00,840
Speaker 1: then uh, that's great. I think. I think, I think

1269
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: what gets under by and for whatever reason, maybe I'm

1270
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 1: a jerk and so I key in on stuff like this.

1271
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 1: But like the guy that you know drove in his

1272
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:14,599
Speaker 1: truck to his deer stand and gets out and like

1273
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 1: sprays down with scent shield and is is thinking that

1274
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 1: he's a hundred percent eliminating his odor. It's just the

1275
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 1: product just doesn't work that good, you know. But I

1276
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 1: know how you're doing it, and I know how my

1277
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 1: dad does it. And if you if you can go

1278
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 1: to that level of legitimate scent control, then it could

1279
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 1: be worth it. But you gotta do a whole bunch

1280
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:46,679
Speaker 1: of stuff, right, you know, you gotta be you gotta

1281
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 1: be highly detail oriented, which you're fantastic at. And uh,

1282
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: and so is my dad and and I can be

1283
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 1: a hund percent to and have been. And so that's

1284
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: a thing if if you're gonna do it is one

1285
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:03,519
Speaker 1: of those things. If you're gonna do it, you gotta

1286
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:07,840
Speaker 1: do it a thousand percent. And then, like you said,

1287
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:11,840
Speaker 1: to think that you could do that level of stint

1288
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 1: control and like a hunt we were doing, it's just

1289
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:19,719
Speaker 1: really not it would I don't know anything is possible,

1290
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 1: but it would have been ridiculous to even try. Yeah, Like,

1291
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 1: like the way I look at it is, Man, if

1292
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:30,599
Speaker 1: there's any chance I can do this a little bit better,

1293
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 1: why wouldn't I. It's like, Okay, I know that, like

1294
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 1: most people, it's hard to guarantee that every single time

1295
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: you take a shot at an animal it's gonna be

1296
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 1: a perfect shot. Right. I can't tell you that every

1297
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 1: time it's gonna work perfectly. Right, Some days a deer's

1298
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: gonna do something crazy. Some days I might pull the trigger,

1299
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 1: some days the wind might blow it. Like so, if

1300
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 1: if I were to say, well, since I'm never going

1301
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 1: to get it perfect, I might as well not practice

1302
01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 1: and try, you know, that doesn't make sense to me,

1303
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:02,120
Speaker 1: So the same thing goes a win like, well, I

1304
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:04,160
Speaker 1: know I'm never gonna get my scent control perfect, and no,

1305
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:06,679
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna get I'm never gonna not gonna get

1306
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 1: deer spooky me. So I'm not gonna try then like that.

1307
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: To me, I'm like, no, if I can, if I

1308
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 1: can get a little better, if me practicing a little

1309
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:16,640
Speaker 1: bit more this year might improve my odds for the

1310
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 1: next shot by one percent more, I'm gonna keep practicing

1311
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 1: more if I can do a little bit more with

1312
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 1: sent control, and maybe that helps me one percent more

1313
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:25,760
Speaker 1: two percent more this year. Yeah, I'm gonna try to

1314
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 1: do that a little more. So that's that's the way

1315
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:31,480
Speaker 1: I look at it. But I see all sides of it, um,

1316
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 1: and I definitely definitely agree like man, doing one or

1317
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,680
Speaker 1: two of these things is basically just a facade. If

1318
01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 1: it makes you feel better, okay, great, it's not going

1319
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 1: to help you a lot. I think. I think, like

1320
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 1: you said, you gotta go, You gotta do it all

1321
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 1: to get some kind of benefit from it. Um. But

1322
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 1: anyone who tells you that they are one sent free

1323
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 1: and never ever get winded by deer uh. And never

1324
01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: you know, anyone who claims there instable in this regard,

1325
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 1: I have a really hard time believe in them. Yeah. Now, hey,

1326
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:14,240
Speaker 1: here's here's one other this is this, here's one other thought. Mark,

1327
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 1: if we're talking about statistics, and we're talking about a

1328
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:23,320
Speaker 1: real world not like on paper, but like real world

1329
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 1: functional stuff, that's gonna it's gonna make us better. And

1330
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 1: and we all have to evaluate, like what what do

1331
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 1: we have the resources to invest in? Is? And and

1332
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:38,160
Speaker 1: I guess I guess I'm thinking about what you're saying,

1333
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 1: is that we are talking about what you just described

1334
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 1: is a minuscule amount of favorability in your favor if

1335
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:54,880
Speaker 1: you're really looking at it, because how many times the

1336
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 1: thirty percent of the thirty percent, how many times do

1337
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 1: you go hunting in a year and see a shooter

1338
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 1: buck twice? And so you're talking about or tell me

1339
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:08,679
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, I'm talking about in a thirty year

1340
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 1: period of time, with those statistics, maybe sent control would

1341
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:18,519
Speaker 1: help you killed maybe one dear, maybe two dear? Is

1342
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 1: that is that that right now? And then my my

1343
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 1: combat the thing that I'm I'm not trying to combat.

1344
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:27,600
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm trying to.

1345
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 1: I'm distilling down the way I think I would. I

1346
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 1: would say, if there's that much energy going into extent

1347
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 1: control for me to kill one more buck over the

1348
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:39,400
Speaker 1: period of let's just say ten years, I could take

1349
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 1: that energy and put it into something else and maybe

1350
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: kill two more bucks. You see what I'm saying. Totally

1351
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 1: get what you're saying. And and the only uh thing

1352
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 1: I would offer differently is that I'm not worried just

1353
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 1: about like that big mature buck winning me. I really

1354
01:15:56,479 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 1: care about every single dell that might win me, because

1355
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 1: every dough that wins you could be the dough that

1356
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: blows your whole hunt, especially, And that's that's what I'm

1357
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:08,640
Speaker 1: saying too. It's like, how many times, though, is that

1358
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:11,759
Speaker 1: gonna play out like that? Because usually a dose spooks

1359
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 1: or dough walks through your sent and she doesn't have

1360
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 1: a shooter buck behind her. You see what I'm saying.

1361
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 1: I do. But but what I'm more referencing is, and

1362
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 1: this is because I hunt a lot in high deer

1363
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 1: density areas, and like, if a dose, even if there's

1364
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 1: not a buck on the dough, even in early season,

1365
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: next season, yeah, next week. Well, not even that. I'm

1366
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:34,560
Speaker 1: talking like, if a dough blows out on hunt today,

1367
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:37,920
Speaker 1: on December whatever, mid December, I'm not worried about they're

1368
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 1: being buck behind her. But if a doe starts blowing,

1369
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:43,599
Speaker 1: that's my night. Like if I have one dough start blowing,

1370
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 1: my entire night's done. If that happens every single one

1371
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:48,800
Speaker 1: my hunts, I'll never ever see a mature buck um.

1372
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 1: And there's so many doughs where I hunt, there's always

1373
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 1: dough is gonna be done with you. It's nearly impossible

1374
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:56,320
Speaker 1: in a lot of the places that hunt to ever

1375
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 1: get a place that's bulletproof from a wind perspective. There's

1376
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:01,240
Speaker 1: I mean I hunted places where you can see forty

1377
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:05,599
Speaker 1: night and you just know like eventually something's gonna get

1378
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 1: down wind. I mean most of these places, and I

1379
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 1: you know, there's just a couple of places where you

1380
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:11,639
Speaker 1: can hunt with a pond. But when you hunt flat

1381
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 1: country in agg land, where there's not water, there's not

1382
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:19,040
Speaker 1: big valleys, there's nothing to act as like a blocker

1383
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 1: for wind where deer won't ever go, you just know,

1384
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 1: well it's gonna happen. And so the question is will

1385
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 1: I have a night where a doe starts blowing and

1386
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 1: gets down winto me and alerts the entire two acres

1387
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:34,599
Speaker 1: to my presence, Or can I get away with that

1388
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: dough passing through giving me the benefit of the doubt

1389
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: and then all the other deer that come through up

1390
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:40,960
Speaker 1: wind to me? Just keep doing the thing that is

1391
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,479
Speaker 1: almost in every single hunt occurrence for me, Clay, and

1392
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:47,400
Speaker 1: I need those three days out of tend to work

1393
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: out to ever see a mature buck. Yeah, man, that

1394
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:53,680
Speaker 1: makes a ton of sense. And that what you just

1395
01:17:53,760 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 1: said to about about flat ground, Like almost every place

1396
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:05,920
Speaker 1: I hunt over here has a significant topographic you know,

1397
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 1: elevation change, and if you're on the edge of something,

1398
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 1: you're sent I mean, there's just first of all, there's

1399
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 1: a high probability they aren't gonna come from that way.

1400
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:19,640
Speaker 1: You can almost know that, and that your your sin

1401
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:21,679
Speaker 1: is gonna be blowing off the side of a mountain

1402
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 1: kind of inconsequentially, you know. So now, and that's a

1403
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 1: great point is that apples to apples. Were not comparing

1404
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:32,080
Speaker 1: apples to apples when we're talking about our white tail hunting, really,

1405
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:34,240
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? But no, Hey, everything you

1406
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 1: said is a percent reasonable, Mark, we have done it.

1407
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,640
Speaker 1: We have come to terms here. No longer would it

1408
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 1: be this hostility between us. I am saying, great job, Mark, Kenyon.

1409
01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:49,320
Speaker 1: I believe you, and and I'm right back at the clay.

1410
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:52,080
Speaker 1: I can see your perspective on it, and there's it's

1411
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 1: it's warranted, and I can totally understand your argument. So

1412
01:18:56,200 --> 01:19:00,840
Speaker 1: the the nasty tension, the oozing disc comfort that we've

1413
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 1: experienced whenhere around each other, can now be gone. You

1414
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:11,880
Speaker 1: can just put it to bed. So so okay, moving

1415
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:29,240
Speaker 1: on from sank control that taking care of Day three

1416
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 1: or Hunt three or whatever this was. It was the

1417
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 1: second day of the hunt, but it was the third hunt,

1418
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 1: so that that's the second morning saw nothing. So I

1419
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:42,560
Speaker 1: decided to still hunt that afternoon. And I'm curious what

1420
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 1: you think about what I did here, Clay, because I

1421
01:19:45,320 --> 01:19:49,680
Speaker 1: decided to move on from that saddle after hunting it

1422
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 1: and evening in the morning, and I wanted to slowly

1423
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 1: still hunt my way down this ridge, looking for any

1424
01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:59,280
Speaker 1: new sign, looking for anything that might clue me into

1425
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:01,160
Speaker 1: there having been a a bit more activity here, and

1426
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 1: then push on past where you and I had ever

1427
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 1: been to before together. Because that that morning before we

1428
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 1: had gone past the first settle, and we got we

1429
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:11,160
Speaker 1: got close to the second. There's another settle on the storge.

1430
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 1: We got to the edge of that and then turned around.

1431
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:15,479
Speaker 1: In my head, I thought, all right, I'll still hunt

1432
01:20:15,479 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 1: my way through that. I'll get to the second saddle,

1433
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 1: I'll examine it again, and assuming there's nothing new, I'm

1434
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:23,560
Speaker 1: gonna keep moving and I'm gonna head into new untouched

1435
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:27,760
Speaker 1: country and see what I find. Well, what happened is

1436
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,719
Speaker 1: I get I come up out of the first saddle.

1437
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:32,240
Speaker 1: I get to the side of this ridge, and I

1438
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:34,599
Speaker 1: remember seeing a bunch of acorns and I was like, cash,

1439
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 1: I don't remember there being so many acorns here. So

1440
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 1: I stopped for a second. I was just kind of

1441
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 1: looking around and thinking. And then I look off to

1442
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:44,439
Speaker 1: my left and I see a little knob come off

1443
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:47,200
Speaker 1: of the main ridge that I hadn't noticed the previous morning.

1444
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 1: And there's this knob, kind of like a spur point

1445
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:52,760
Speaker 1: that came off the main ridge, and I noticed it

1446
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 1: was just thick. For whatever reason, there was not a

1447
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,920
Speaker 1: mature canopy over this little knob, and it was really

1448
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:02,240
Speaker 1: thick new growth. Some of the thickest stuff that I

1449
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:05,160
Speaker 1: had seen so far, and I thought to myself, Man,

1450
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:08,240
Speaker 1: if I were a buck, I would be betting off

1451
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 1: this little spur ridge that comes off. This's the thickest,

1452
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 1: nastiest stuff I've seen yet. And I thought, you know what,

1453
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:16,360
Speaker 1: let's just watch that, like, let's just edge this way.

1454
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 1: I had seen all these acorns here and this little

1455
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:22,160
Speaker 1: spur ridge, and I thought, I'm just gonna kind of

1456
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:23,960
Speaker 1: edge my way over there and take a look and

1457
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 1: see what's going on. So I started, I left the

1458
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 1: main ridge and started dropping off to the side and

1459
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 1: just really slowly edged my way along and as Tyler described,

1460
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:35,960
Speaker 1: and Tyler had to leave now because it was flight.

1461
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:40,960
Speaker 1: But um, Tyler would be about yards behind me, and

1462
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 1: then my second cameraman, who we bring these two cameramen

1463
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 1: to have different angles in different coverage makes it very

1464
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:49,320
Speaker 1: hard from hunting perspective. But I had him stay back

1465
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 1: like seventy eight yards and he was getting this far,

1466
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 1: far distant view. But I just didn't want three of

1467
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:56,640
Speaker 1: us right together trying to walk through the woods and

1468
01:21:56,680 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 1: making all this noise. Um, So I started just lipping

1469
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:04,240
Speaker 1: real quietly around this knob because the ridge was heading

1470
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 1: up to the top of a basically a high point

1471
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:08,640
Speaker 1: on the bridge, and then there's a little spur that

1472
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 1: came off there, and so I moved my way through there,

1473
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:13,960
Speaker 1: and then here's a rub and then I see that,

1474
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:16,160
Speaker 1: thinking all right, this is this is great. This is

1475
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:18,439
Speaker 1: only the second rub I've seen. Yet I keep moving

1476
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 1: a little further another like forty yards, and here's another rub. Man,

1477
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 1: this is good. And then I move another like fifty

1478
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:29,560
Speaker 1: yards around this knob, circling and here's another one. So

1479
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:32,400
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I've found three rubs all around

1480
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 1: this spur point coming off the ridge, and I've been

1481
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:38,920
Speaker 1: looking at my map and I'm looking at the sign.

1482
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, okay, this is interesting. And this also happens

1483
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:46,679
Speaker 1: to be just just at the head of that second saddle.

1484
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:50,799
Speaker 1: So I stood there and just glassed that little brushy

1485
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:54,519
Speaker 1: knob for I don't know, half an hour, maybe watching

1486
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 1: it and just seeing like maybe could there be a

1487
01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:59,639
Speaker 1: buck bedded down there? And yes, no, I'm not sure,

1488
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:01,840
Speaker 1: but I watched and watched it, and now we're down

1489
01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:05,840
Speaker 1: to the last hour of daylight maybe, and I thought

1490
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 1: to myself, well, this is interesting over here, but I

1491
01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:12,880
Speaker 1: also know there's that saddle just around the corner. So

1492
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:15,599
Speaker 1: I decided to move edge down just a little bit

1493
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:17,759
Speaker 1: further so I could see into that saddle as well.

1494
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:19,240
Speaker 1: And I thought, you know, i've got a gun. This

1495
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:21,920
Speaker 1: is a muzzle loader hunt. Um I could if I

1496
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:24,600
Speaker 1: can see down into this valley or this starry of

1497
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 1: the saddle and then also be tight up next to

1498
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:30,160
Speaker 1: where this little spur is, maybe that's like the best

1499
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:32,880
Speaker 1: of both worlds. If there's bucks cruising the side hill

1500
01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:34,840
Speaker 1: of the ridge, I could take advantage of it. If

1501
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 1: there's a buck coming off this little point that I

1502
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:40,080
Speaker 1: thought maybe something might bet on. Given the rubs and everything,

1503
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 1: I could see that or be within range of that,

1504
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:44,400
Speaker 1: and then I could also be within sight of the

1505
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 1: saddle and see if anything was crossing there as I

1506
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 1: move over. I also remember that when you and I

1507
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:54,240
Speaker 1: took that first walk through this area, we had found

1508
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 1: a little scrape right in the top of the ridge

1509
01:23:56,160 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 1: in the same zone. So now all of a sudden,

1510
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:00,160
Speaker 1: I've got acorns. I have a little scrape, and I

1511
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:04,320
Speaker 1: have three rubs all right next to the saddle. And

1512
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 1: as you have described, like one rub equals ten in Michigan. Well,

1513
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:10,600
Speaker 1: I've just found three plus a scrape that sounds like

1514
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:14,759
Speaker 1: an amazing concentration assign. Now, Um, so I was encouraged

1515
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 1: by that, sat down next to a tree on the ground,

1516
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:20,240
Speaker 1: kind of overlooking all this and figured, all right, I'm

1517
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 1: gonna watch it and just see what happens. And sure enough,

1518
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 1: before dark here comes four does by far like the

1519
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 1: most dear we'd seen, and they come across that saddle,

1520
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:32,599
Speaker 1: across the saddle, go to the other side. They're out

1521
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 1: of range. Um, and this brings up a point that

1522
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 1: we haven't covered yet, but we should, which is what

1523
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 1: I was going to target on this hunt. I've been

1524
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 1: asking you leading into the hunt. You know, what do

1525
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 1: you think is realistic that I could see? Um? What's

1526
01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 1: realistic when it comes to bucks? Should I should I

1527
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:53,400
Speaker 1: try to take a dough? Should I hold out for

1528
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:55,160
Speaker 1: a buck? Should I hold out for an older buck

1529
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 1: like I usually? Do? You know what's possible here? And

1530
01:24:57,920 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 1: you brought this up with James, or one of us

1531
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 1: brought us up James two, and he had some really

1532
01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:05,240
Speaker 1: helpful insight. Um, can you just recount what that was

1533
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:07,760
Speaker 1: and and what your perspective was as far as you know,

1534
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 1: I had three and a half days or whatever it

1535
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 1: was to hunt. What was your perspective? And James is

1536
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:15,040
Speaker 1: as far as you know, how I should adjust my goals.

1537
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 1: You know, with three and a half days to hunt,

1538
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:24,479
Speaker 1: My my advice to you was shoot any legal buck

1539
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:28,760
Speaker 1: you see or legal deer. And James had the same

1540
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 1: advice right off, without hesitation, shoot any legal buck you see,

1541
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:40,120
Speaker 1: you know. And um and boy, anywhere you go in

1542
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 1: the country, with three and a half days to hunt,

1543
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 1: you know, your your your odds, there are the odds

1544
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:50,360
Speaker 1: are already against you for taking a mature buck. I

1545
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 1: mean even in some great place, you know. So on

1546
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 1: this kind of hunt, we were looking for just a

1547
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:00,920
Speaker 1: legal buck and we hoped, we hoped it would be

1548
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 1: a nice buck, and that would kind of just be

1549
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:05,760
Speaker 1: a game of odds, you know. I mean, this is

1550
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:08,840
Speaker 1: not a place we had cameras up. We didn't. We

1551
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:11,479
Speaker 1: had no clue what kind of deer were in the area.

1552
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:16,600
Speaker 1: But so, yeah, you were just looking for for a

1553
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:18,720
Speaker 1: legal deer. And you know, I think you would have

1554
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:20,960
Speaker 1: shot a dough if you would have thought that it

1555
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 1: was lone and it wasn't gonna you know, it wasn't

1556
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:28,120
Speaker 1: being followed by a buck, and um, so, yeah, we

1557
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:31,559
Speaker 1: were just this was kind of a meat hunt, you know, definitely.

1558
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:34,160
Speaker 1: And when I saw those four doughs, I I even

1559
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 1: tried to slip closer to them, just on the off

1560
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 1: chance that maybe they'd come back through, or maybe there'd

1561
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 1: be another deer behind them. And and to your point,

1562
01:26:42,120 --> 01:26:44,840
Speaker 1: I had decided that, yeah, getting any deer on this

1563
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:47,040
Speaker 1: hunt would be a heck of an accomplishment. So I

1564
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:53,639
Speaker 1: was excited seeing four shooter doughs, um and and yeah

1565
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:56,160
Speaker 1: that was how that night ended. Though they never came

1566
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:58,840
Speaker 1: back through, no other deer came through. But I had

1567
01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:01,439
Speaker 1: all of a sudden a lot of confidence in this

1568
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:04,760
Speaker 1: little area and figure it, Okay, I'm gonna be right

1569
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:06,800
Speaker 1: back here first thing in the morning. Maybe adjust my

1570
01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 1: location a little bit closer into the saddle, a little

1571
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:11,760
Speaker 1: further into the saddle, so if something comes through there

1572
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 1: like they did, I could get a shop and uh,

1573
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, fast forward to that next morning. That's what

1574
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:20,479
Speaker 1: I did. I slipped in there before darker, before daylight.

1575
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 1: I found a spot where I could kind of hunker

1576
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:25,479
Speaker 1: up next to a tree and hide my cameraman behind

1577
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 1: some down logs. And at first light, yeah, pretty soon

1578
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:33,320
Speaker 1: after first light, here comes some doughs through that same saddle,

1579
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:37,639
Speaker 1: but they were further back, almost almost out of the saddle.

1580
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:41,439
Speaker 1: They were kind of side killing it um and still

1581
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 1: out of range now and kind of passing through some

1582
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:48,760
Speaker 1: thicker stuff. So they came through, and after I saw that,

1583
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:51,559
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, well, maybe I need to be

1584
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:55,160
Speaker 1: deeper into this saddle, because you know, now both of

1585
01:27:55,200 --> 01:27:57,479
Speaker 1: the groups of doughs that I had seen had been

1586
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:01,519
Speaker 1: on that farther side of it. So after I don't know,

1587
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:04,599
Speaker 1: an hour after daylight, now maybe I'm like, okay, let's

1588
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:07,360
Speaker 1: make an adjustment again one more time. And this is

1589
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:11,559
Speaker 1: where hunting on the ground I think, really appealed to

1590
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 1: me on this trip and on some subsequent hunts where

1591
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:16,120
Speaker 1: I was using a firearm. You know, so often I'd

1592
01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:17,680
Speaker 1: like to be up high and in a tree, But

1593
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:20,360
Speaker 1: when you've got a gun, you know a lot of

1594
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 1: you're you're not as um vulnerable to getting spotted by

1595
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 1: deer as you are with a bow. When you need

1596
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 1: that deer to be forty yards away, and you know

1597
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:32,120
Speaker 1: you have to have them that close to get a shot,

1598
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:34,560
Speaker 1: that's hard. But if I can kill him at a

1599
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:37,439
Speaker 1: hundred yards or kill him at seventy yards and see

1600
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:39,479
Speaker 1: them at that distance. You know, I'm not worried about

1601
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:41,559
Speaker 1: them seeing me next to a tree on the ground.

1602
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:44,120
Speaker 1: And so I had thought to myself at this point, man,

1603
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:48,800
Speaker 1: the benefit of being able to easily adjust my location,

1604
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, just on like, hey, I need to move

1605
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:55,559
Speaker 1: and just walk thirty yards, that benefit outweighed the added

1606
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:58,400
Speaker 1: stealth I would get from being in a tree, just

1607
01:28:58,439 --> 01:29:01,720
Speaker 1: because of how different it would be to move locations

1608
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:04,639
Speaker 1: to you know, put sticks and stand up and then

1609
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:06,840
Speaker 1: pull it down, move to another tree, put sticks and

1610
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:08,680
Speaker 1: get up in there in the saddle again, especially with

1611
01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:12,639
Speaker 1: cameraman too. So in this case, I mean, I'm very

1612
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 1: glad that I was on the ground because I just said, okay,

1613
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 1: well I saw what they did here. I'm just gonna

1614
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:19,760
Speaker 1: get up. I'm gonna move forty yards now a little

1615
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:21,600
Speaker 1: bit further. And I moved to a spot where I

1616
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:23,559
Speaker 1: could see down into that sad a little bit more

1617
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:25,679
Speaker 1: and shoot to the other side of it if deer

1618
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 1: dig crossed through there, sat down the ground again. And

1619
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:35,600
Speaker 1: now this is what I can't remember what happened. First, Um,

1620
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:38,840
Speaker 1: we had a spike come in directly behind me. And

1621
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:41,240
Speaker 1: it it walked right up on one of my cameramen

1622
01:29:42,160 --> 01:29:45,920
Speaker 1: and spooked. What I can't remember is if that happened

1623
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:51,000
Speaker 1: before or after the next thing I'm gonna tell you about.

1624
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:54,000
Speaker 1: I don't remember what happened first, um, but that's not

1625
01:29:54,120 --> 01:29:56,120
Speaker 1: too terribly important. We did see a spike. I did

1626
01:29:56,120 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 1: not get a shot of the spike. But what happened

1627
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:01,800
Speaker 1: either just before or just after the was that while

1628
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the ground with my back back against

1629
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:07,600
Speaker 1: the tree, looking down at this saddle, I hear a

1630
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:11,200
Speaker 1: twig snap to my right, kind of right back from

1631
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:16,479
Speaker 1: where I'd come from. Just imagine, there's this ridge, and

1632
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:18,600
Speaker 1: then the ridge dips down right into the saddle in

1633
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 1: front of me. But that ridge also there's a high

1634
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:24,360
Speaker 1: point under ridge, and then it falls off on either side. Right.

1635
01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 1: I was just a little bit off to the left

1636
01:30:26,439 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 1: side of the ridge, so I'm just slightly below the

1637
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:32,280
Speaker 1: highest point. I hear twig snap just to the right,

1638
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:34,960
Speaker 1: just off of the high point, to the right side

1639
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 1: of the ridge, and I spin my head when I

1640
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:40,000
Speaker 1: hear this snap, and as I looked to my right,

1641
01:30:40,080 --> 01:30:43,599
Speaker 1: I just see the tip top of times just beneath

1642
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:47,120
Speaker 1: the rise of the hill walking parallel to me down

1643
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:51,839
Speaker 1: into the saddle right away, I whispered to Tyler. Tyler

1644
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:53,880
Speaker 1: buck right next to us. I mean he was, it

1645
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:56,160
Speaker 1: was forty yards away maybe, as it was slipping down

1646
01:30:56,200 --> 01:30:59,200
Speaker 1: the other side of the ridge, and I'd get up

1647
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:02,320
Speaker 1: on my knees, pull the gun up, put the gun

1648
01:31:02,400 --> 01:31:04,599
Speaker 1: up against this tree I was that was sitting in

1649
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:08,760
Speaker 1: front of me. And yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what happened, right,

1650
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:11,760
Speaker 1: because I'm pretty sure I was sitting up against the tree.

1651
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:13,120
Speaker 1: And then there was another tree in front of me.

1652
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:14,680
Speaker 1: So I got up on my knees and put my

1653
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:17,559
Speaker 1: gun against that tree and spun, and as that deer

1654
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:21,960
Speaker 1: came out all from behind that rise, he stepped into

1655
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 1: an opening and it had this all happened in like

1656
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:26,680
Speaker 1: five seconds, four seconds. He was there, he was in

1657
01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:31,000
Speaker 1: front of me. Boom shot him. Hardly had time to

1658
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:32,559
Speaker 1: even look at what this buck was, but I knew

1659
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:36,320
Speaker 1: it was a buck, and it was you know, a

1660
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:39,800
Speaker 1: legal buck, and it took a crack shot him. He

1661
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:43,639
Speaker 1: ran off like a hundred yards and then immediately went

1662
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:47,160
Speaker 1: down like bedded down though, And so I knew it

1663
01:31:47,200 --> 01:31:49,760
Speaker 1: wasn't why I didn't know, but I appeared that it

1664
01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:52,920
Speaker 1: wasn't an instantly fatal shot. He didn't crash down. He

1665
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:56,559
Speaker 1: ran off and stopped and went down, bedded down. And

1666
01:31:56,640 --> 01:32:00,280
Speaker 1: so I repositioned myself first shot for the follow up shot.

1667
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:03,799
Speaker 1: I could see like times in the grass, but couldn't

1668
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 1: see him. And to make a long story short, he

1669
01:32:06,280 --> 01:32:08,960
Speaker 1: ended up getting up, went back down, couldn't get a shot,

1670
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:11,840
Speaker 1: got up, got back down, couldn't get a shot, and

1671
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:15,320
Speaker 1: finally got up and stood still in one position long

1672
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:16,840
Speaker 1: enough that I was able to get the follow up

1673
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,679
Speaker 1: shot and dropped him in his tracks right there. And uh.

1674
01:32:20,720 --> 01:32:24,600
Speaker 1: And I had killed a buck on day three of

1675
01:32:24,640 --> 01:32:26,880
Speaker 1: the hunt. Walked up on him and he was like

1676
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:29,760
Speaker 1: a really nice I mean not a big big buck,

1677
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:34,040
Speaker 1: but a nice eight point buck. Um, it was incredible.

1678
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:40,160
Speaker 1: It was awesome. Yeah, man, thrilled. Well, I really feel

1679
01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:42,840
Speaker 1: like for a for a three and a half day hunt,

1680
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:46,960
Speaker 1: you did really good, especially in that part of the world,

1681
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:50,920
Speaker 1: you know, just to kill a nice racked buck, you know. Um,

1682
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 1: So I was thrilled. You. You messaged me. It was

1683
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:56,799
Speaker 1: it was later in the morning, like in ten o'clock

1684
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 1: thirty out and you said shot at eight point and uh,

1685
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:08,320
Speaker 1: I was. I was as the crow flies really not

1686
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:10,919
Speaker 1: that far from you, I mean, you know, ten miles

1687
01:33:10,920 --> 01:33:14,280
Speaker 1: but it took me two and a half hours probably

1688
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:17,400
Speaker 1: to get to you. And by the time I got

1689
01:33:17,479 --> 01:33:21,439
Speaker 1: back around and yeah, man, I was thrilled for you.

1690
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:25,320
Speaker 1: It works. You know. That's the thing about these this

1691
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:28,120
Speaker 1: kind of hunting is you can't be validated by seeing deer.

1692
01:33:28,200 --> 01:33:31,720
Speaker 1: I mean, we deer hunt because we love deer. Oh

1693
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:34,960
Speaker 1: it is. It's ridiculous how fun it is to watch deer,

1694
01:33:35,479 --> 01:33:37,360
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, like you see you see these

1695
01:33:37,439 --> 01:33:40,559
Speaker 1: videos of like cats like looking at a window at

1696
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:42,639
Speaker 1: a bird, and you know, you can just tell how

1697
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:46,360
Speaker 1: pump they are to be watching this bird. Um, we're

1698
01:33:46,439 --> 01:33:49,679
Speaker 1: like that with dere We love to see just watch

1699
01:33:49,720 --> 01:33:52,599
Speaker 1: a deer that we're not even gonna kill. And that

1700
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 1: is part of the fun of hunting. So if you're

1701
01:33:55,120 --> 01:34:00,720
Speaker 1: gonna hunt for four hours, you know, to not see

1702
01:34:01,120 --> 01:34:04,360
Speaker 1: a single deer except the one that you shoot would

1703
01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:06,320
Speaker 1: not be as fun as if you had seen ten

1704
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,960
Speaker 1: before you killed the one that you did kill. But

1705
01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:14,760
Speaker 1: but the result was the same, you know, And that's

1706
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:17,080
Speaker 1: kind of what I thought would happen, is that if

1707
01:34:17,120 --> 01:34:20,960
Speaker 1: you sit there long enough, it's gonna work out. And uh,

1708
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:25,120
Speaker 1: and the plan worked. We stuck with the plan, you know,

1709
01:34:25,200 --> 01:34:28,280
Speaker 1: hunting these hot stackles and with just a little bit

1710
01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:30,120
Speaker 1: of sign, it just kind of worked like it was

1711
01:34:30,160 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 1: supposed to, you know. Yeah, And I'll tell you that

1712
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:35,439
Speaker 1: was one of the biggest challenges though, was trusting in

1713
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:40,400
Speaker 1: that plan. You know, I'm so used to you know,

1714
01:34:40,439 --> 01:34:43,040
Speaker 1: especially when you're hunting in high deer density areas and

1715
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 1: you know, what I do most of the time is

1716
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:47,680
Speaker 1: trying to target a mature buck. You know. It's it's

1717
01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:51,000
Speaker 1: so focused on finding the best of the best sign

1718
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:53,479
Speaker 1: and high concentrations of it and getting right into the

1719
01:34:53,479 --> 01:34:55,679
Speaker 1: middle of it and making sure you're on the freshest, hottest,

1720
01:34:55,720 --> 01:34:58,840
Speaker 1: biggest sign, and you need all these different points of

1721
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 1: validation to confer them that yeah, you're actually in it,

1722
01:35:01,479 --> 01:35:04,479
Speaker 1: and if you're not actually in it, you're wasting your time. Well,

1723
01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:06,800
Speaker 1: that's the exact opposite in this kind of scenario where

1724
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:08,840
Speaker 1: it's man, you're not gonna have any of that, and

1725
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:11,920
Speaker 1: you simply need to trust that this thing is good enough,

1726
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:15,040
Speaker 1: this terrain feature is good enough, and wait and trust,

1727
01:35:15,080 --> 01:35:16,720
Speaker 1: like there's nothing to tell you. Oh yeah, I'm on

1728
01:35:16,720 --> 01:35:18,840
Speaker 1: the right track. Oh yeah, this is you know, here's

1729
01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:20,720
Speaker 1: a bunch of deer okay, yep, or here's a bunch

1730
01:35:20,760 --> 01:35:23,240
Speaker 1: of sign yep, you're on the right track. Nope, there's

1731
01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:25,840
Speaker 1: none of that. And so I remember, you know, talking

1732
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:28,640
Speaker 1: about that to the camera, just about how kind of

1733
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:32,320
Speaker 1: unnerving that is, and how I just kept on trying

1734
01:35:32,360 --> 01:35:35,160
Speaker 1: to remind myself, like, trust the terrain. Just trust the terrain,

1735
01:35:35,240 --> 01:35:38,200
Speaker 1: to keep on trusting it, and you know, eventually, you know,

1736
01:35:38,240 --> 01:35:41,519
Speaker 1: there's the possibility could work out. And unfortunately it did.

1737
01:35:42,280 --> 01:35:45,080
Speaker 1: Um but you know, very different than what I'm used

1738
01:35:45,080 --> 01:35:47,719
Speaker 1: to in in so many places. And Mark, if we'd

1739
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:50,960
Speaker 1: have had more time, like ideally you would do it

1740
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:53,640
Speaker 1: hunt like that and have a week to hunt, you know,

1741
01:35:54,160 --> 01:35:56,120
Speaker 1: and if you'd come in and had a full week

1742
01:35:56,160 --> 01:35:59,600
Speaker 1: to hunt, we probably would have spent more time scouting.

1743
01:36:00,439 --> 01:36:04,040
Speaker 1: We we would have tried to find a little more sign,

1744
01:36:04,280 --> 01:36:05,880
Speaker 1: or you know, one of us would have hunted. If

1745
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:08,320
Speaker 1: we'd have been just hunting together and we'd have found

1746
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:10,280
Speaker 1: one spot that had a little bit of sign, it

1747
01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:13,360
Speaker 1: was a good historic saddle. It might have been like, hey,

1748
01:36:13,479 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 1: you hunt here tonight, I'm gonna go over there and

1749
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:19,080
Speaker 1: check that out and and still hunt a little bit.

1750
01:36:19,120 --> 01:36:21,920
Speaker 1: But scout and you know, about day three, just like

1751
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:23,600
Speaker 1: all these hunts that happened, you know, we might have

1752
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:26,920
Speaker 1: found something that was way better than what you were

1753
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:33,120
Speaker 1: sitting on. But boy, I just calculated that. Man, if

1754
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:35,040
Speaker 1: you just sit there, if you just stay in this

1755
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:37,720
Speaker 1: area and do this, especially for the short amount of

1756
01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 1: time we had, then it'll work, you know. And there's

1757
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:46,000
Speaker 1: a couple of different responses to to hunting, and a

1758
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:48,880
Speaker 1: guy just kind of has to figure out what he

1759
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:52,559
Speaker 1: wants to do and what is successful. I don't have

1760
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:55,640
Speaker 1: a hard time hunkering down when times get hard and

1761
01:36:55,720 --> 01:37:00,240
Speaker 1: just sticking with something where like so for instance, like

1762
01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:02,960
Speaker 1: I could go sit in the saddle for you know,

1763
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:05,559
Speaker 1: three or four hunts in a row and not see

1764
01:37:05,560 --> 01:37:07,840
Speaker 1: a deer and go into it on that fifth hunt,

1765
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:10,880
Speaker 1: thinking today is the day I feel better than I've

1766
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:13,840
Speaker 1: ever felt. You know that it's gonna work out, just

1767
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 1: because statistically, you're like, deer is gonna come through here,

1768
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:19,040
Speaker 1: and I've been here four times and he hadn't showed

1769
01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:21,320
Speaker 1: up today. There's gotta be a deer come through here,

1770
01:37:21,640 --> 01:37:24,320
Speaker 1: and and it works. At the same time, one of

1771
01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:28,439
Speaker 1: the best hunters I know down in western Arkansas. It's

1772
01:37:28,439 --> 01:37:31,240
Speaker 1: a good friend of my name is Scott Brown. He

1773
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:33,840
Speaker 1: won't hunt a place more than once if he doesn't

1774
01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:36,639
Speaker 1: see a deer, and he's hunting the exact same type

1775
01:37:36,720 --> 01:37:40,080
Speaker 1: train mark and Scott. Scott will tell you, boy, if

1776
01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:42,240
Speaker 1: you go in someplace and don't see a deer, then

1777
01:37:42,280 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 1: go somewhere else. But he also knows all that country

1778
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:51,360
Speaker 1: really well. He lives there. He and that's his strategy.

1779
01:37:51,439 --> 01:37:54,600
Speaker 1: His strategy is, actually, I'm gonna kill a deer the

1780
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:57,160
Speaker 1: first time I go in somewhere, So I am going

1781
01:37:57,280 --> 01:38:01,439
Speaker 1: to maximize the number of first times that I go somewhere.

1782
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:04,320
Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying, And a lot a lot

1783
01:38:04,360 --> 01:38:07,559
Speaker 1: of times. And I like that. I like going too

1784
01:38:07,600 --> 01:38:10,000
Speaker 1: a totally new spot and setting up, but I also

1785
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:13,559
Speaker 1: like to kind of hunker down and just wait for one. Yeah.

1786
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:18,000
Speaker 1: It just takes, like it does take some under some

1787
01:38:18,120 --> 01:38:20,719
Speaker 1: knowledge of that place, or some confidence in that place

1788
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:23,840
Speaker 1: to do that, at least for me. Yes, you know,

1789
01:38:24,120 --> 01:38:26,320
Speaker 1: I'm fine sitting in place over and over again. If

1790
01:38:26,360 --> 01:38:29,320
Speaker 1: I know, like hey, I know that bucks use this

1791
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:31,800
Speaker 1: area in this kind of way. I know that eventually

1792
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:33,680
Speaker 1: he'll come through it might not be today, it might

1793
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:36,760
Speaker 1: not be tomorrow, but it will happen. Like I love

1794
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:39,120
Speaker 1: a place like that. The hard thing for me this

1795
01:38:39,200 --> 01:38:42,920
Speaker 1: year was just I'm just you know, I just got hunches,

1796
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:45,040
Speaker 1: or I've just got a suggestion, or I've just got

1797
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:47,040
Speaker 1: a man, this is supposed to work like this, so

1798
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:51,240
Speaker 1: I hope so um. That was the thing that kept

1799
01:38:51,320 --> 01:38:54,479
Speaker 1: my mind swimming day after day in these different punts,

1800
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:56,479
Speaker 1: in these different locations like this, where you're just like, man,

1801
01:38:57,439 --> 01:38:59,840
Speaker 1: this is how it's supposed to work. I just don't

1802
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:01,920
Speaker 1: have the time and history here to tell you that

1803
01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:03,960
Speaker 1: I know for sure, And so you're just kind of

1804
01:39:05,320 --> 01:39:08,240
Speaker 1: you're hoping and wishing on a prayer. And and fortunately

1805
01:39:08,240 --> 01:39:10,519
Speaker 1: this case, you know it, it panned out the way

1806
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 1: it's supposed to and and it was a really cool experience.

1807
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:16,040
Speaker 1: And you came rolling in a few hours later on

1808
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:19,080
Speaker 1: your mule, and uh, and I guess that's something worth

1809
01:39:19,080 --> 01:39:21,280
Speaker 1: talking about because you know, as you alluded at the beginning,

1810
01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:24,640
Speaker 1: you know, going in like we did and camping out

1811
01:39:24,720 --> 01:39:27,960
Speaker 1: in there and bringing the mule, it's not all about efficiency.

1812
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:31,320
Speaker 1: It's really a lot about chasing a certain experience. But

1813
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:34,560
Speaker 1: there is something awfully efficient about having that mule. I

1814
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:36,280
Speaker 1: was we were four miles away from the truck at

1815
01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:38,559
Speaker 1: this point. Um, that'd be a heck of a drag

1816
01:39:38,680 --> 01:39:40,040
Speaker 1: or a heck of a hike out with him on

1817
01:39:40,120 --> 01:39:42,200
Speaker 1: my back. But we were able to grab that deer

1818
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:44,760
Speaker 1: and throw it on your mule, and uh, you know,

1819
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:48,519
Speaker 1: make for a much easier exit strategy. What's uh, can

1820
01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:50,200
Speaker 1: you talk to about the best way to pack a

1821
01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:52,160
Speaker 1: deer out, how you did that on the mule and

1822
01:39:52,439 --> 01:39:55,240
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that side of things. Yeah, So that

1823
01:39:55,240 --> 01:39:58,479
Speaker 1: that was really cool. And that is the probably the

1824
01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:02,360
Speaker 1: biggest the biggest cherry on top of hunting with a

1825
01:40:02,439 --> 01:40:06,439
Speaker 1: mule is that you're not worried about killing one way

1826
01:40:06,439 --> 01:40:10,120
Speaker 1: back in there. When I years ago, I remember I

1827
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:14,440
Speaker 1: was bear hunting back in the mountains and my dad

1828
01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:16,280
Speaker 1: would be like, well, what are you gonna do when

1829
01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:20,040
Speaker 1: you kill one back there? And that was a legitimate

1830
01:40:20,120 --> 01:40:23,920
Speaker 1: question for us back then before I had stock. Is like,

1831
01:40:24,040 --> 01:40:26,720
Speaker 1: holy cow, that's gonna be a major deal getting it

1832
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:31,400
Speaker 1: out of there, and um, and and that's just not

1833
01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:34,960
Speaker 1: an issue if you've got a mule that'll carry a deer.

1834
01:40:35,520 --> 01:40:37,559
Speaker 1: And what was cool about this deal too, is we

1835
01:40:37,680 --> 01:40:41,800
Speaker 1: carried the mule carried all our stuff out and the

1836
01:40:41,840 --> 01:40:46,040
Speaker 1: deer so and in the same one trip. So if

1837
01:40:46,080 --> 01:40:49,800
Speaker 1: we'd have been back there without that, without the mule,

1838
01:40:49,840 --> 01:40:51,880
Speaker 1: we'd had to make a couple of trips back in

1839
01:40:51,960 --> 01:40:53,639
Speaker 1: and out of there to get the whole deer out

1840
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:56,280
Speaker 1: and everything. And and the deer wasn't a huge body deer,

1841
01:40:56,400 --> 01:40:58,720
Speaker 1: you know, so it wasn't wasn't a big deal for

1842
01:40:58,720 --> 01:41:01,400
Speaker 1: the mule. But what this strategy that I used, or

1843
01:41:01,439 --> 01:41:05,040
Speaker 1: the technique that I used, was you got the deer

1844
01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:07,800
Speaker 1: and then you cut about a four or five inch

1845
01:41:07,880 --> 01:41:11,960
Speaker 1: slit in the ribs, kind of in the middle, the

1846
01:41:12,439 --> 01:41:17,320
Speaker 1: middle section of the ribs, and you it takes two

1847
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:19,599
Speaker 1: guys and and it can be kind of hard to do,

1848
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:24,040
Speaker 1: but you basically put that slit over the saddle horn

1849
01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:28,920
Speaker 1: on your saddle, and once that saddle horn goes in

1850
01:41:29,040 --> 01:41:31,640
Speaker 1: the slit of that rib, you don't even have to

1851
01:41:31,720 --> 01:41:34,639
Speaker 1: tie the mute the deer down. It looks like it's

1852
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:38,479
Speaker 1: just draped across the saddle, but it pretty much won't

1853
01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:42,240
Speaker 1: come off. And so that's what we did, and uh

1854
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:46,160
Speaker 1: it uh. And then you can also still put your

1855
01:41:46,200 --> 01:41:50,960
Speaker 1: paniards on and pack all your camp and so we

1856
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:53,000
Speaker 1: came out of there and the mule had all our

1857
01:41:53,080 --> 01:41:56,439
Speaker 1: camp in the deer and um, you know the other

1858
01:41:57,479 --> 01:42:00,080
Speaker 1: the way that when I bear hunt and how a

1859
01:42:00,160 --> 01:42:02,479
Speaker 1: bear out, as we'll go ahead and quarter the bear

1860
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:04,960
Speaker 1: and just put the quarters in there. You could do

1861
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:06,479
Speaker 1: the same thing with the deer. You can quarter the

1862
01:42:06,520 --> 01:42:09,840
Speaker 1: deer and put the quarters you know, in your in

1863
01:42:09,880 --> 01:42:15,880
Speaker 1: your pants. And um, I've also seen guys tie them

1864
01:42:15,960 --> 01:42:19,439
Speaker 1: up like basically drape them over the saddle and then

1865
01:42:20,160 --> 01:42:24,639
Speaker 1: tie their feet and not do the slit the slip tactic.

1866
01:42:25,439 --> 01:42:30,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, I enjoy that stuff. That's it. It's pretty handy. Yeah,

1867
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:33,599
Speaker 1: well yeah, I mean I was really glad, really glad

1868
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:36,240
Speaker 1: we had iusy for that one. Uh. It was it

1869
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:39,280
Speaker 1: was just it was helpful and then just cool again.

1870
01:42:39,479 --> 01:42:41,400
Speaker 1: It was another one of those moments. Hiking in I

1871
01:42:41,479 --> 01:42:43,160
Speaker 1: had a moment like that and hiking out again, like

1872
01:42:43,200 --> 01:42:46,080
Speaker 1: looking back and seeing seeing my buck slung over the

1873
01:42:46,080 --> 01:42:50,120
Speaker 1: top of a mule. I mean, that's uh, that's a

1874
01:42:50,160 --> 01:42:52,280
Speaker 1: site you don't get every day. And and so much

1875
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:56,800
Speaker 1: of this this week was like that, uh, you know,

1876
01:42:56,840 --> 01:43:00,559
Speaker 1: in in the modern deer hunting experience or most of

1877
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:04,640
Speaker 1: us you know, so much of hunting now is you know,

1878
01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:08,559
Speaker 1: at least maybe it's maybe it's just me, me and

1879
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 1: people I hang out with, but it's it's kind of

1880
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:17,920
Speaker 1: like your I don't know, like a like a military persons.

1881
01:43:18,120 --> 01:43:22,880
Speaker 1: Sneaking in like assaulting a target is sometimes how we

1882
01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:25,600
Speaker 1: talk about. Like you're on a mission. You've got your property,

1883
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:28,240
Speaker 1: you get in there, you get your fancy scent control stuff,

1884
01:43:28,240 --> 01:43:31,000
Speaker 1: you get your you know, your thousand dollar bow and

1885
01:43:31,120 --> 01:43:35,439
Speaker 1: your saddle in your ultra light sticks, and you hike

1886
01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:38,120
Speaker 1: into this place or you ride an e bike into

1887
01:43:38,160 --> 01:43:40,559
Speaker 1: this place or whatever, and you check your trail cameras

1888
01:43:40,600 --> 01:43:42,320
Speaker 1: and you look at your phone and you see what's

1889
01:43:42,320 --> 01:43:44,120
Speaker 1: on the cameras, and you're doing all this stuff, and

1890
01:43:44,160 --> 01:43:48,040
Speaker 1: it's very intense. It's very technology heavy these days, and

1891
01:43:48,360 --> 01:43:53,639
Speaker 1: in certain ways it's and oftentimes solo, it's often very

1892
01:43:53,800 --> 01:43:56,800
Speaker 1: very end goal oriented, like I'm trying to kill this

1893
01:43:56,880 --> 01:43:59,400
Speaker 1: one mature buck, and if any other deer comes through,

1894
01:43:59,560 --> 01:44:01,599
Speaker 1: I don't care. All I care about is that one deer.

1895
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:05,519
Speaker 1: And so there's these very high stakes and I sometimes

1896
01:44:05,560 --> 01:44:10,200
Speaker 1: catch myself like being surrounded by pressure and stress and

1897
01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:15,240
Speaker 1: technology and uh, you know, all these things and I'm

1898
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:17,040
Speaker 1: out there and I'm like, I'm not even having fun

1899
01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:18,760
Speaker 1: right now, Like I'm just piste off, or I'm just

1900
01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:22,320
Speaker 1: stressed out, or I'm just like overworked, whatever it might be.

1901
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:26,320
Speaker 1: And I'll catch myself sometimes thinking what are you doing?

1902
01:44:27,120 --> 01:44:28,720
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying I don't love a lot of

1903
01:44:28,720 --> 01:44:30,800
Speaker 1: these things a lot of the time, but there are

1904
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:33,000
Speaker 1: days or moments and I'm like, WHOA, this is not

1905
01:44:33,040 --> 01:44:35,160
Speaker 1: what I wanted to be all the time, and that's

1906
01:44:35,160 --> 01:44:37,800
Speaker 1: why I hunt. Like what we experienced together in Arkansas

1907
01:44:38,240 --> 01:44:42,519
Speaker 1: seemed like such a great reset where I wasn't worried

1908
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:45,200
Speaker 1: about all these things. I wasn't stressed out about a

1909
01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:47,559
Speaker 1: big buck, I wasn't worried about trail cameras. I wasn't

1910
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:50,200
Speaker 1: bringing any technology or send control stuff out there with me.

1911
01:44:50,280 --> 01:44:54,760
Speaker 1: I wasn't a solo tactical assault man. I was there

1912
01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:58,040
Speaker 1: with a group of people. We're having fun together, We're

1913
01:44:58,080 --> 01:45:02,960
Speaker 1: having a shared commune experience. We were out there in

1914
01:45:03,080 --> 01:45:06,479
Speaker 1: nature camping hoping to see some deer, but if not, well,

1915
01:45:06,560 --> 01:45:09,920
Speaker 1: you know what, that's hunting. And it was very much

1916
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:13,479
Speaker 1: a throwback to how I imagine a lot of people

1917
01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:16,800
Speaker 1: experience these things and and I've noticed Clay with you

1918
01:45:17,680 --> 01:45:25,400
Speaker 1: that you seem to actively, um, you actively are seeking

1919
01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:32,560
Speaker 1: out those types of counter culture, counter mainstream culture experiences.

1920
01:45:32,600 --> 01:45:35,799
Speaker 1: Maybe like you've you've made a choice to get involved

1921
01:45:35,840 --> 01:45:38,400
Speaker 1: with mules. You've made a choice to go and do

1922
01:45:38,560 --> 01:45:41,479
Speaker 1: these kinds of you know, hunts in the big woods

1923
01:45:41,479 --> 01:45:43,320
Speaker 1: that are a lot harder than what you could be

1924
01:45:43,360 --> 01:45:45,760
Speaker 1: doing in other parts of Arkansas. You've you've done and

1925
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:49,639
Speaker 1: you've explored different arenas within the hunting culture like this.

1926
01:45:49,720 --> 01:45:53,599
Speaker 1: You've you've gone and you've tapped into things like you know,

1927
01:45:53,880 --> 01:45:57,439
Speaker 1: getting into coon hunting, bear hunting, all these different things

1928
01:45:57,479 --> 01:46:03,080
Speaker 1: that maybe you're different than the mains dream? Um is that?

1929
01:46:03,240 --> 01:46:06,240
Speaker 1: Is that purposeful? Is that mindful? Is that? Did that

1930
01:46:06,320 --> 01:46:08,479
Speaker 1: just happen because of how you were raised? Or have you?

1931
01:46:09,120 --> 01:46:11,840
Speaker 1: Have you thought to yourself at some point in your life, Man,

1932
01:46:12,640 --> 01:46:14,880
Speaker 1: I think they had something right a hundred years ago

1933
01:46:14,960 --> 01:46:17,599
Speaker 1: or two years ago. I want to get a taste

1934
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:20,840
Speaker 1: of that. I want to be more like that. What

1935
01:46:20,960 --> 01:46:22,840
Speaker 1: does any of that make sense? A resonant? You know,

1936
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:25,760
Speaker 1: I think it's probably a combination of a of a

1937
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:29,200
Speaker 1: lot of different things, you know, talking about this kind

1938
01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:32,800
Speaker 1: of romantic hunt in a sense that we did out

1939
01:46:32,840 --> 01:46:35,439
Speaker 1: there with mules and hunting this way with really not

1940
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:39,840
Speaker 1: a lot of technology. Uh, that's not the way I

1941
01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:43,040
Speaker 1: always hunt, you know. I mean that that is there's

1942
01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:48,120
Speaker 1: probably some media bias towards that because that's what people

1943
01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:50,400
Speaker 1: want to talk to me about, and that's what I

1944
01:46:50,520 --> 01:46:53,680
Speaker 1: enjoy talking about. But you know this, Mark, I mean,

1945
01:46:53,800 --> 01:46:56,000
Speaker 1: a whole lot of my white til hunting is not

1946
01:46:56,280 --> 01:47:01,519
Speaker 1: that dissimilar to yours, you know, I mean like hunting

1947
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:04,160
Speaker 1: a single buck, you know, driving a truck to where

1948
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:06,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hunt, and getting out and getting in a

1949
01:47:06,760 --> 01:47:09,320
Speaker 1: tree saddle, and you know, so a lot of my

1950
01:47:09,400 --> 01:47:15,400
Speaker 1: hunting is just pretty standard. But I find that I'm

1951
01:47:15,400 --> 01:47:19,639
Speaker 1: pretty goal oriented over periods of time. And I spent

1952
01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:22,800
Speaker 1: about ten years in this part of Arkansas trying to

1953
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:26,040
Speaker 1: kill a three and a half year old plus age

1954
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:29,960
Speaker 1: buck with a bow. That was my goal every year.

1955
01:47:30,160 --> 01:47:32,240
Speaker 1: I want to kill a three and a half year

1956
01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:37,680
Speaker 1: old deer or above every year. And I mean, I

1957
01:47:38,439 --> 01:47:41,840
Speaker 1: really can't say how many years I did that, but

1958
01:47:42,160 --> 01:47:45,680
Speaker 1: after ten twelve years, I was like, Okay, I can

1959
01:47:45,720 --> 01:47:47,920
Speaker 1: do this, Like I could do this probably for the

1960
01:47:47,960 --> 01:47:52,080
Speaker 1: rest of my hunting career. You know fairly successfully, you know,

1961
01:47:53,120 --> 01:47:56,720
Speaker 1: and and I just kind of proved myself that I

1962
01:47:56,760 --> 01:47:59,160
Speaker 1: could do that, and so I kind of I didn't

1963
01:47:59,240 --> 01:48:02,840
Speaker 1: forget that because I still do that, but I moved

1964
01:48:02,880 --> 01:48:06,800
Speaker 1: on to something else. And really it probably was six seven, eight,

1965
01:48:07,560 --> 01:48:11,679
Speaker 1: ten years ago that I really started hunting National forest

1966
01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:16,040
Speaker 1: in the interior National Forest like what we did. So

1967
01:48:16,160 --> 01:48:21,200
Speaker 1: that's not something I necessarily just always targeted. You know.

1968
01:48:21,200 --> 01:48:22,800
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, we were trying to get

1969
01:48:22,840 --> 01:48:25,200
Speaker 1: away from that kind of hunting, you know. We we

1970
01:48:25,479 --> 01:48:27,519
Speaker 1: were trying to go hunt the private land. We were

1971
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:29,400
Speaker 1: wanting to go to the Midwest, we were wanting to

1972
01:48:29,400 --> 01:48:33,080
Speaker 1: do something different because that was tough. And so when

1973
01:48:33,080 --> 01:48:35,960
Speaker 1: I became an adult and after I kind of did

1974
01:48:36,040 --> 01:48:38,760
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, I went back to that. And

1975
01:48:39,880 --> 01:48:42,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know why I like that

1976
01:48:42,240 --> 01:48:45,599
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. I just, um, I do like to

1977
01:48:45,640 --> 01:48:48,080
Speaker 1: continue to challenge myself. I mean, like with traditional archery

1978
01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:50,160
Speaker 1: would probably be a good example of that kind of stuff.

1979
01:48:50,160 --> 01:48:52,240
Speaker 1: You know. I've hunted with a compound since I was

1980
01:48:52,240 --> 01:48:55,360
Speaker 1: in the third grade and used to shoot. Gary Nucam

1981
01:48:55,439 --> 01:48:58,799
Speaker 1: hauled me around to every bow tournament within four hours

1982
01:48:58,880 --> 01:49:02,640
Speaker 1: of where we live and shot a lot of uh

1983
01:49:02,880 --> 01:49:06,719
Speaker 1: archery tournaments and stuff, and you know, when I got

1984
01:49:06,760 --> 01:49:09,800
Speaker 1: in became an adult, I was like, well, I'm done

1985
01:49:09,840 --> 01:49:13,599
Speaker 1: with that. Um and it just wasn't that interested in that.

1986
01:49:14,520 --> 01:49:19,040
Speaker 1: But it had built a skill set and shooting bows,

1987
01:49:19,640 --> 01:49:23,000
Speaker 1: and if I started, I kept bow hunting, and I

1988
01:49:23,040 --> 01:49:24,840
Speaker 1: just felt like I was carrying a rifle, you know.

1989
01:49:25,200 --> 01:49:27,800
Speaker 1: And there was some strategic people in my life that

1990
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:31,080
Speaker 1: were traditional archery hunting, and I just remember going and

1991
01:49:31,120 --> 01:49:34,360
Speaker 1: talking to those guys and going, holy cow, how that

1992
01:49:34,439 --> 01:49:37,679
Speaker 1: dude is bow hunting, you know. And and for me,

1993
01:49:38,360 --> 01:49:42,400
Speaker 1: I was challenged by these traditional archers and so I said,

1994
01:49:42,479 --> 01:49:44,600
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't know if I can do

1995
01:49:44,640 --> 01:49:48,400
Speaker 1: it or not. Let's see. And so for about seven years,

1996
01:49:49,000 --> 01:49:52,519
Speaker 1: I really heavily focused on traditional archery, and that was

1997
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:55,599
Speaker 1: my go to weapon for everything. And Mark I missed

1998
01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:58,080
Speaker 1: a couple of real nice bucks. I killed some deer,

1999
01:49:58,280 --> 01:50:01,600
Speaker 1: killed one nice buck, killed bunch of bears. That was

2000
01:50:01,680 --> 01:50:05,040
Speaker 1: my main target during that period was bears. And about

2001
01:50:05,080 --> 01:50:07,200
Speaker 1: two years ago I woke up and I was like,

2002
01:50:07,720 --> 01:50:10,800
Speaker 1: you know what, I've kind of done it for me,

2003
01:50:11,080 --> 01:50:14,720
Speaker 1: for my standards, you know, I was like, yep, I

2004
01:50:14,760 --> 01:50:18,800
Speaker 1: can kill stuff with a traditional bow with consistency. I

2005
01:50:18,920 --> 01:50:21,880
Speaker 1: love it. It's awesome, And I said, but I think

2006
01:50:21,920 --> 01:50:23,720
Speaker 1: I'm ready to go back to the compound. So for

2007
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:26,360
Speaker 1: the last two years I've shot compound and love it,

2008
01:50:26,520 --> 01:50:28,120
Speaker 1: just love it. I mean, when I go out with

2009
01:50:28,120 --> 01:50:32,400
Speaker 1: my compound bow right now, I feel really good about

2010
01:50:32,520 --> 01:50:37,320
Speaker 1: just killing a deer, and um, you know, the two

2011
01:50:37,400 --> 01:50:39,840
Speaker 1: years from now, that might wear off and I might go,

2012
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:41,759
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going back to the triad. Bo

2013
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:43,840
Speaker 1: I just kind of like to keep things fresh. I

2014
01:50:43,880 --> 01:50:51,880
Speaker 1: guess I get that. Get that you you talk about, Um,

2015
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:55,120
Speaker 1: you talk about in in a number of your pieces

2016
01:50:55,120 --> 01:50:58,640
Speaker 1: of work, you know, like your podcast Burglaries, about some

2017
01:50:58,760 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 1: of the influences that you've had and and someone in

2018
01:51:02,840 --> 01:51:05,040
Speaker 1: particular who you would have liked to go back in

2019
01:51:05,120 --> 01:51:07,760
Speaker 1: time and shake their hand and look him in the face,

2020
01:51:07,800 --> 01:51:09,920
Speaker 1: like someone like Daniel Boone or one of these other

2021
01:51:09,960 --> 01:51:16,840
Speaker 1: long hunters, mountain men, frontier types. Um, it's funny. I'll

2022
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:18,679
Speaker 1: step out of my question and as in the side,

2023
01:51:19,560 --> 01:51:25,240
Speaker 1: I don't remember where, but somehow my son UM heard

2024
01:51:25,280 --> 01:51:28,320
Speaker 1: me talk about Daniel Boone or something, and then we

2025
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:31,080
Speaker 1: were riding in the car together when I was listening

2026
01:51:31,200 --> 01:51:33,760
Speaker 1: to one of your podcasts about Daniel Boone and so

2027
01:51:33,960 --> 01:51:35,639
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, this is Daniel Boone and he started

2028
01:51:35,680 --> 01:51:41,240
Speaker 1: listening and he's three mind you. Um. He then found

2029
01:51:41,360 --> 01:51:43,840
Speaker 1: the song from the Daniel Boone TV show, Like my

2030
01:51:43,920 --> 01:51:46,280
Speaker 1: mother in law someone must have like heard him talking

2031
01:51:46,320 --> 01:51:48,479
Speaker 1: about Daniel Boone. So's like, hey, listen to this song.

2032
01:51:48,600 --> 01:51:51,719
Speaker 1: So she heard that Daniel Boone as a man and

2033
01:51:52,360 --> 01:51:54,960
Speaker 1: he is. Now for the last two months since I've

2034
01:51:55,000 --> 01:51:58,799
Speaker 1: visited with you, he has been in full blown Daniel

2035
01:51:58,800 --> 01:52:02,599
Speaker 1: Boone obsession. Old like we we listened to that song

2036
01:52:02,760 --> 01:52:05,320
Speaker 1: every morning on repeat and the two of us will

2037
01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:09,120
Speaker 1: sit there singing he was a big man. And he

2038
01:52:09,200 --> 01:52:13,040
Speaker 1: pretends to be Daniel Boone and he I mean, he's

2039
01:52:13,120 --> 01:52:16,320
Speaker 1: he's in it. He obsesses about these different hunters like

2040
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:18,240
Speaker 1: he's he you know, he likes to pretend to be

2041
01:52:18,320 --> 01:52:21,280
Speaker 1: Steve or you or Janice or whoever. But right now,

2042
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:24,440
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone is the top of the game for him.

2043
01:52:24,520 --> 01:52:27,800
Speaker 1: And I bring that up though to to just I'm

2044
01:52:27,880 --> 01:52:32,639
Speaker 1: curious how much these historical figures, you know, you mentioned

2045
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:34,960
Speaker 1: we kind of romanticize these kind of throwback hunts a

2046
01:52:34,960 --> 01:52:38,000
Speaker 1: little bit. How much to folks like that enter your

2047
01:52:38,040 --> 01:52:39,920
Speaker 1: mind when you go out and hunt in this kind

2048
01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:43,160
Speaker 1: of way or you go into a place like this. Um,

2049
01:52:43,200 --> 01:52:46,160
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's some kind of appeal even like, like,

2050
01:52:46,240 --> 01:52:48,040
Speaker 1: even though I don't hunt this way a lot, I

2051
01:52:48,080 --> 01:52:52,240
Speaker 1: still I'm like, Wow, there's something very attractive about what

2052
01:52:52,320 --> 01:52:54,400
Speaker 1: that must have been like and not wanting to tap

2053
01:52:54,439 --> 01:52:58,280
Speaker 1: into it just a little bit. Yeah, that's a good question, Mark,

2054
01:52:59,080 --> 01:53:01,120
Speaker 1: And the answer is I think about it all the time.

2055
01:53:02,000 --> 01:53:06,040
Speaker 1: I really do. I mean I really I think about

2056
01:53:06,439 --> 01:53:10,720
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone. I think about Frederick Gerstacker, who's as a

2057
01:53:10,760 --> 01:53:13,800
Speaker 1: guy that hunted in the early eight hundreds here in

2058
01:53:13,960 --> 01:53:17,240
Speaker 1: Arkansas that I've read a lot about. And I think

2059
01:53:17,240 --> 01:53:19,160
Speaker 1: about these guys all the time. And I think, what

2060
01:53:19,520 --> 01:53:23,679
Speaker 1: I'm kind of on the search for, among probably all

2061
01:53:23,760 --> 01:53:32,360
Speaker 1: of us, is personal identity. And we we unconsciously draw

2062
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:36,439
Speaker 1: a lot of personal identity from sources that we don't

2063
01:53:36,479 --> 01:53:42,120
Speaker 1: even recognize. And you know, the question I always bring

2064
01:53:42,200 --> 01:53:46,280
Speaker 1: up on Burglarys and I ask people constantly is why

2065
01:53:46,400 --> 01:53:49,360
Speaker 1: is it important what some dude did two hundred years ago?

2066
01:53:50,439 --> 01:53:53,040
Speaker 1: You know, for whatever my connection would be to him,

2067
01:53:53,080 --> 01:53:55,240
Speaker 1: whether it would be he lived in the same place

2068
01:53:55,280 --> 01:53:57,800
Speaker 1: I did, or he was interested in something I'm interested in,

2069
01:53:58,080 --> 01:54:01,240
Speaker 1: or maybe it's a family member, or maybe it's a

2070
01:54:01,240 --> 01:54:07,719
Speaker 1: geographic geographic connection or whatever. And that answer, the answer

2071
01:54:07,720 --> 01:54:13,000
Speaker 1: to that question is not entirely tangible, but it is

2072
01:54:13,320 --> 01:54:19,000
Speaker 1: extremely clear that we draw an enormous amount of personal

2073
01:54:19,040 --> 01:54:22,200
Speaker 1: identity from a bunch of stuff that happened a long

2074
01:54:22,280 --> 01:54:26,439
Speaker 1: time ago. And there's that that can be positive and negative,

2075
01:54:26,520 --> 01:54:29,639
Speaker 1: big time mark. I mean, humans are just sponges for identity.

2076
01:54:29,680 --> 01:54:31,519
Speaker 1: We're all trying to figure out who we are and

2077
01:54:31,680 --> 01:54:35,080
Speaker 1: what is the functional expression of who we are that's

2078
01:54:35,080 --> 01:54:40,120
Speaker 1: gonna make us be successful and have a good family

2079
01:54:40,160 --> 01:54:42,120
Speaker 1: and be good deer hunters and be able to make

2080
01:54:42,160 --> 01:54:45,560
Speaker 1: money and and and make whatever impact we feel like

2081
01:54:45,560 --> 01:54:48,560
Speaker 1: we need to make on planet Earth. And uh, you

2082
01:54:48,640 --> 01:54:51,440
Speaker 1: just can't do that absent from history. And I don't.

2083
01:54:52,280 --> 01:54:54,160
Speaker 1: I'm really not a history I can't say that I'm

2084
01:54:54,200 --> 01:54:58,880
Speaker 1: like a history buff. I don't just devour history books.

2085
01:54:59,560 --> 01:55:02,480
Speaker 1: But I get into certain you know, there are certain

2086
01:55:02,520 --> 01:55:05,640
Speaker 1: things that that I do get into, Like Daniel Boone,

2087
01:55:05,720 --> 01:55:09,120
Speaker 1: that series like that was fascinating to me, and um

2088
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:12,800
Speaker 1: and I learned a lot myself inside of all the

2089
01:55:13,200 --> 01:55:16,760
Speaker 1: research and talking to the all these guys about Daniel Boone,

2090
01:55:16,760 --> 01:55:19,800
Speaker 1: and I think there, I think it makes your outdoor

2091
01:55:19,800 --> 01:55:23,200
Speaker 1: experience more robust. And that is something I'm very interested in,

2092
01:55:23,480 --> 01:55:27,400
Speaker 1: is in all areas of life, is to have a

2093
01:55:27,520 --> 01:55:32,040
Speaker 1: robust human experience and whatever you're doing, whether it's with

2094
01:55:32,120 --> 01:55:35,040
Speaker 1: your family or your career at you know, the I

2095
01:55:35,200 --> 01:55:39,400
Speaker 1: T place you work at, is like to be beyond,

2096
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:43,880
Speaker 1: to have a beyond the surface level understanding of what's

2097
01:55:43,880 --> 01:55:47,560
Speaker 1: going on, who you're working with this life. And so

2098
01:55:48,160 --> 01:55:51,480
Speaker 1: if I can, if I can understand about the way

2099
01:55:51,520 --> 01:55:54,800
Speaker 1: these long hunters hunted and the history of North American

2100
01:55:54,880 --> 01:55:57,160
Speaker 1: hunting and how they market hunted animals out. But then

2101
01:55:57,200 --> 01:56:00,840
Speaker 1: there was the reintroduction of animals to kind of in

2102
01:56:00,920 --> 01:56:04,120
Speaker 1: the in some places actual reintroduction. But if you know

2103
01:56:04,200 --> 01:56:07,320
Speaker 1: the broader picture of conservation, then it makes a ton

2104
01:56:07,400 --> 01:56:10,440
Speaker 1: of sense and adds a ton of value to that

2105
01:56:10,960 --> 01:56:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, average eight point that you killed on the

2106
01:56:14,040 --> 01:56:17,120
Speaker 1: side of a mountain in Arkansas that otherwise might not

2107
01:56:17,200 --> 01:56:21,120
Speaker 1: have that much value. So I think knowledge just almost

2108
01:56:21,200 --> 01:56:26,960
Speaker 1: always brings a more robust experience to anything that you do. Yeah,

2109
01:56:27,040 --> 01:56:31,440
Speaker 1: you know, so true, So much of a hunting or

2110
01:56:31,480 --> 01:56:34,080
Speaker 1: any kind but so much of a hunt or hunting

2111
01:56:34,120 --> 01:56:41,520
Speaker 1: experience is experienced between your ears too, and having that knowledge,

2112
01:56:41,600 --> 01:56:47,240
Speaker 1: that context, even even being able to imagine all this

2113
01:56:47,560 --> 01:56:53,720
Speaker 1: greater greater and struggling to articular exactly what I mean here,

2114
01:56:53,760 --> 01:56:56,360
Speaker 1: but but but it adds this whole other level, this

2115
01:56:56,400 --> 01:57:00,160
Speaker 1: whole this sense of depth to to everything. Um and

2116
01:57:00,160 --> 01:57:03,840
Speaker 1: and I can't help but find myself romanticizing these things too,

2117
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:07,120
Speaker 1: and imagining these things and putting myself into different places

2118
01:57:07,160 --> 01:57:09,680
Speaker 1: in different times and thinking, man, what what have that

2119
01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:12,880
Speaker 1: been like? How much I would have loved to be there? Man?

2120
01:57:12,920 --> 01:57:15,080
Speaker 1: So often like man, I was born two years too late.

2121
01:57:15,560 --> 01:57:18,760
Speaker 1: Um So, if I gotta ask you, if if I

2122
01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:21,440
Speaker 1: could go back to any time and like plant myself

2123
01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:24,840
Speaker 1: in a spot and experience something I would have liked.

2124
01:57:24,880 --> 01:57:26,480
Speaker 1: I've thought about this a lot, so it's easy for

2125
01:57:26,480 --> 01:57:28,560
Speaker 1: me to answer now. I would have liked to have

2126
01:57:28,640 --> 01:57:30,760
Speaker 1: been on the Lewis and Clark during That's where I

2127
01:57:30,760 --> 01:57:33,840
Speaker 1: want to go. I want to have got to go

2128
01:57:33,960 --> 01:57:37,840
Speaker 1: across the Great Plains and see be one of the first,

2129
01:57:38,280 --> 01:57:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, euro Americans to experience what that was like.

2130
01:57:41,600 --> 01:57:45,080
Speaker 1: The vastness of the wildlife populations and being able to

2131
01:57:45,120 --> 01:57:47,200
Speaker 1: go and see what the Rocky Mountains were actually like

2132
01:57:47,280 --> 01:57:49,480
Speaker 1: and going up into them, and you know, all all

2133
01:57:49,520 --> 01:57:51,440
Speaker 1: along that trip you don't know. You don't know what

2134
01:57:51,480 --> 01:57:54,800
Speaker 1: you're going to come across. Your your surprised by everything.

2135
01:57:54,840 --> 01:57:58,000
Speaker 1: You've heard, rumors of things, you've gotten reports, some scouts

2136
01:57:58,000 --> 01:58:00,160
Speaker 1: on different things, but the whole way, it's man, I

2137
01:58:00,160 --> 01:58:04,160
Speaker 1: don't know. And then seeing the the amazing plenty of

2138
01:58:04,200 --> 01:58:08,160
Speaker 1: what the American West was actually like would have been amazing.

2139
01:58:08,320 --> 01:58:10,680
Speaker 1: That's that's what I would like to to see and

2140
01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:14,120
Speaker 1: do if I could go back in time. Ah, what

2141
01:58:14,120 --> 01:58:16,720
Speaker 1: would your spot be? Would you go back and be

2142
01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:19,920
Speaker 1: one of Boone's buddies, cross into the government gap or

2143
01:58:19,960 --> 01:58:22,640
Speaker 1: what would you choose? Okay, I'm gonna give you a

2144
01:58:22,680 --> 01:58:28,960
Speaker 1: layered answer, mark because I am. I am thrilled to

2145
01:58:29,040 --> 01:58:36,000
Speaker 1: be alive in like, I'm confident that Daniel Boone or

2146
01:58:36,080 --> 01:58:38,600
Speaker 1: the Fulsome Hunters were doing a podcast series on Bear

2147
01:58:38,720 --> 01:58:41,800
Speaker 1: Grease right now about the the Fulsome site, which is

2148
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:44,400
Speaker 1: a ten thousand plush year old site where they killed

2149
01:58:44,400 --> 01:58:47,880
Speaker 1: thirty two bison using this unique style of point and

2150
01:58:47,920 --> 01:58:56,440
Speaker 1: it's just an unbelievable story. And those those guys if

2151
01:58:56,520 --> 01:59:00,520
Speaker 1: they if they inside of their life could peer into

2152
01:59:00,520 --> 01:59:05,440
Speaker 1: the life that we live, they would be more fascinated

2153
01:59:05,560 --> 01:59:09,200
Speaker 1: with us than we are with them looking back. You know,

2154
01:59:09,480 --> 01:59:13,600
Speaker 1: we we live we're trapped inside of time, which makes

2155
01:59:13,680 --> 01:59:17,160
Speaker 1: us think that our lives are normal and our lives

2156
01:59:17,160 --> 01:59:21,360
Speaker 1: are not normal at all. In this last podcast, I

2157
01:59:21,400 --> 01:59:24,120
Speaker 1: did a section because I was kind of trying to

2158
01:59:24,200 --> 01:59:27,960
Speaker 1: quantify that statement right there, and they say that there

2159
01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:30,800
Speaker 1: they estimate that there's been about a hundred and seventeen

2160
01:59:30,840 --> 01:59:34,040
Speaker 1: billion humans that have lived on planet Earth. Ever, you know,

2161
01:59:34,120 --> 01:59:37,880
Speaker 1: Homo sapiens hundred and seventeen billion. Right now, there's seven

2162
01:59:37,920 --> 01:59:44,800
Speaker 1: point eight billion people on planet Earth. Um, it's hard

2163
01:59:44,840 --> 01:59:49,640
Speaker 1: to analyze those numbers, but basically, the vast, vast majority

2164
01:59:49,680 --> 01:59:53,640
Speaker 1: of humans that have ever lived have lived radically different

2165
01:59:53,640 --> 01:59:56,480
Speaker 1: lives than us, with not the amount of technology that

2166
01:59:56,520 --> 01:59:59,800
Speaker 1: we have. So I say that to say, I'm I

2167
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:03,680
Speaker 1: think we're we're pioneers in a major way. Like I

2168
02:00:03,720 --> 02:00:06,200
Speaker 1: think just like we look back at boone and go,

2169
02:00:06,320 --> 02:00:09,160
Speaker 1: how did he do it? How did he travel that

2170
02:00:09,360 --> 02:00:12,600
Speaker 1: all that way? And buckskins? And how did he handle

2171
02:00:12,640 --> 02:00:14,880
Speaker 1: the cold? How did he can handle the hunger? How

2172
02:00:14,880 --> 02:00:18,800
Speaker 1: did he handle the thread of uh Indians? How did

2173
02:00:18,840 --> 02:00:20,960
Speaker 1: he kill all those animals? How did he do that?

2174
02:00:21,000 --> 02:00:23,360
Speaker 1: You know, they they'd be saying the same thing about us.

2175
02:00:24,040 --> 02:00:27,520
Speaker 1: How did how did they manage the all the stress

2176
02:00:27,600 --> 02:00:29,400
Speaker 1: and how do they manage that this and that? How

2177
02:00:29,440 --> 02:00:37,160
Speaker 1: to deal with trolls on Instagram? Exactly? Yeah, but I would.

2178
02:00:37,960 --> 02:00:41,400
Speaker 1: I would love to go back into Boone's time. I would.

2179
02:00:41,520 --> 02:00:44,520
Speaker 1: I'd love to be Dan Boone's buddy. I just have

2180
02:00:44,600 --> 02:00:47,240
Speaker 1: a ton of respect for the guy. I just really,

2181
02:00:47,400 --> 02:00:49,880
Speaker 1: there's so much we know about Boone and these weird

2182
02:00:50,480 --> 02:00:53,320
Speaker 1: you know, and Rannella said it so well so many

2183
02:00:53,360 --> 02:00:56,360
Speaker 1: times on that series, But we know a ton about

2184
02:00:56,440 --> 02:01:01,040
Speaker 1: Boon obscure, an incredible amount of stuff we know about Boon,

2185
02:01:01,240 --> 02:01:06,720
Speaker 1: down to his personal emotions and opinions on really specific things,

2186
02:01:06,760 --> 02:01:08,920
Speaker 1: which is kind of unique. And I think I would

2187
02:01:09,000 --> 02:01:12,360
Speaker 1: like old Dan Boone and uh but and this is

2188
02:01:12,400 --> 02:01:16,520
Speaker 1: probably because I'm deep into the research and kind of

2189
02:01:16,520 --> 02:01:20,240
Speaker 1: the heart of this podcast. I'm fulsome but I cannot

2190
02:01:21,280 --> 02:01:26,959
Speaker 1: get over trying to understand the human experience that applies

2191
02:01:27,040 --> 02:01:30,280
Speaker 1: to Seene Hunter would have had. I mean, I just

2192
02:01:30,320 --> 02:01:31,880
Speaker 1: like to be in their camp. I mean, were they

2193
02:01:31,920 --> 02:01:36,560
Speaker 1: happy or were they just miserable? Because of the life

2194
02:01:36,560 --> 02:01:40,240
Speaker 1: that they lived. Where there comedians in a group? You know,

2195
02:01:40,280 --> 02:01:42,360
Speaker 1: there's ten people in your camp. Was there one guy

2196
02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:45,880
Speaker 1: that was like super funny, cracking jokes about you know,

2197
02:01:45,920 --> 02:01:51,680
Speaker 1: applies to see Dad jokes um, And the the answer

2198
02:01:51,800 --> 02:01:56,680
Speaker 1: is yes, you know he was there. There would have been.

2199
02:01:56,880 --> 02:02:00,400
Speaker 1: They were just like us. They just didn't have the

2200
02:02:00,400 --> 02:02:03,520
Speaker 1: the knowledge or the technology that we have, but they

2201
02:02:03,560 --> 02:02:06,440
Speaker 1: had a whole other set of knowledge. So so either

2202
02:02:06,480 --> 02:02:09,720
Speaker 1: applies to scene Hunter or Boone Boone, you know, being

2203
02:02:09,760 --> 02:02:12,000
Speaker 1: around when old Boone was around. But I guarantee you

2204
02:02:12,120 --> 02:02:13,720
Speaker 1: if we were there for a week, we'd want to

2205
02:02:13,720 --> 02:02:22,920
Speaker 1: come back. I mean, oh, just incredible. And and it's

2206
02:02:22,960 --> 02:02:30,080
Speaker 1: also incredible to think about the resilience of humanity too,

2207
02:02:31,400 --> 02:02:34,600
Speaker 1: to become whatever we have to become to survive. So

2208
02:02:35,880 --> 02:02:37,400
Speaker 1: we look at some of the stuff that Boone went

2209
02:02:37,440 --> 02:02:40,080
Speaker 1: through and just went like, how was it even possible?

2210
02:02:40,640 --> 02:02:42,360
Speaker 1: Because you know, me and you go out and set

2211
02:02:42,400 --> 02:02:44,040
Speaker 1: four hours in a tree stand and get a little

2212
02:02:44,040 --> 02:02:46,640
Speaker 1: bit chilled, and we're like, man, I'm I'm ready to

2213
02:02:46,640 --> 02:02:51,760
Speaker 1: go home, you know, and uh, and these guys, you know,

2214
02:02:52,160 --> 02:02:54,800
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone once spent two years on a hunting trip

2215
02:02:54,840 --> 02:02:58,760
Speaker 1: by himself without you know, no rain gear, living off

2216
02:02:58,800 --> 02:03:01,880
Speaker 1: of wild game and what every foraged and just a

2217
02:03:01,920 --> 02:03:04,640
Speaker 1: toughness that that would have taken. And to think, holy

2218
02:03:04,680 --> 02:03:06,800
Speaker 1: cal if me and you went and did that today, Mark,

2219
02:03:07,640 --> 02:03:10,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you know what, how would we respond to that?

2220
02:03:10,720 --> 02:03:12,880
Speaker 1: But if we were there and didn't know any different,

2221
02:03:12,960 --> 02:03:15,240
Speaker 1: I guarantee it would have not been that big a deal.

2222
02:03:15,920 --> 02:03:18,920
Speaker 1: So just interesting stuff to think about. Yeah, for sure,

2223
02:03:19,240 --> 02:03:22,080
Speaker 1: it definitely is, and it's it was. It was really

2224
02:03:22,080 --> 02:03:26,960
Speaker 1: cool to have, you know, a short opportunity to immerse

2225
02:03:27,040 --> 02:03:30,400
Speaker 1: myself in something that at the at the just very

2226
02:03:30,520 --> 02:03:34,240
Speaker 1: very little surface level could give you a tiny little

2227
02:03:34,280 --> 02:03:37,560
Speaker 1: opportunity to to experience what that might have been like

2228
02:03:37,640 --> 02:03:39,360
Speaker 1: just a little bit. I mean going in there, this

2229
02:03:39,360 --> 02:03:42,360
Speaker 1: whole this whole hunt for me was um, it was

2230
02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:45,040
Speaker 1: just a real treat, getting that taste, getting a feel that,

2231
02:03:45,160 --> 02:03:48,400
Speaker 1: getting to be out in the mountains, big woods, public land,

2232
02:03:48,520 --> 02:03:52,560
Speaker 1: camping out with the mule, hoping touh, hoping to still

2233
02:03:52,600 --> 02:03:54,760
Speaker 1: hunt my way into a buck, hoping something will come through,

2234
02:03:54,840 --> 02:03:56,960
Speaker 1: Hoping I'll bill sling a deer over top of a

2235
02:03:57,720 --> 02:03:59,520
Speaker 1: over top of a mule. I mean that that whole

2236
02:03:59,560 --> 02:04:04,240
Speaker 1: thing was just it was a really great adventure. And

2237
02:04:04,400 --> 02:04:07,400
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough, Clay for show me around,

2238
02:04:07,560 --> 02:04:10,560
Speaker 1: for for taking time to share with me how you

2239
02:04:10,600 --> 02:04:13,240
Speaker 1: think about these things and and how you go about it,

2240
02:04:13,280 --> 02:04:16,880
Speaker 1: and man, it was just a great time. So thank you. Yeah,

2241
02:04:17,280 --> 02:04:20,960
Speaker 1: well man, you're welcome. But really I I thank you

2242
02:04:21,080 --> 02:04:25,080
Speaker 1: for coming down. I mean for you, uh and and

2243
02:04:25,400 --> 02:04:28,240
Speaker 1: you're the white tail guru. For your to think enough

2244
02:04:28,360 --> 02:04:30,360
Speaker 1: of what we're doing down here to come down here

2245
02:04:30,480 --> 02:04:33,440
Speaker 1: was honor to me. So I appreciate you coming man,

2246
02:04:33,480 --> 02:04:35,760
Speaker 1: because you you knew you were walking into something that

2247
02:04:35,880 --> 02:04:39,200
Speaker 1: wasn't an ideal. It's not the kind of place you

2248
02:04:39,360 --> 02:04:42,040
Speaker 1: travel to go hunt, you know. So yeah, I had

2249
02:04:42,080 --> 02:04:45,200
Speaker 1: a great time, and you know it. Man, you can

2250
02:04:45,240 --> 02:04:47,640
Speaker 1: come back anytime you want to. But me and you

2251
02:04:47,680 --> 02:04:49,760
Speaker 1: were kind of trapped in this media world where we

2252
02:04:49,840 --> 02:04:54,560
Speaker 1: gotta produce content. So and there's always pressure and it's

2253
02:04:54,680 --> 02:04:58,040
Speaker 1: dumb to talk about it, but there is a you know,

2254
02:04:58,320 --> 02:05:04,600
Speaker 1: producing media does put a big time strain and an

2255
02:05:04,680 --> 02:05:08,000
Speaker 1: unusual difficulty on a hunt that is not typically seen.

2256
02:05:08,120 --> 02:05:11,040
Speaker 1: Even in this conversation we're not talking about that, but man,

2257
02:05:11,200 --> 02:05:14,840
Speaker 1: that that that makes a difference. So I sell that

2258
02:05:14,880 --> 02:05:18,800
Speaker 1: to say when me and you retire, Mark and we're

2259
02:05:18,920 --> 02:05:23,640
Speaker 1: no longer making outdoor media. Come down to Arkansas and

2260
02:05:23,680 --> 02:05:26,960
Speaker 1: we'll go out and hunt for a week. Set up well,

2261
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:29,920
Speaker 1: we'll set up a big camp and we'll we'll really

2262
02:05:29,920 --> 02:05:34,120
Speaker 1: do it right. But we can't be documented. I mean

2263
02:05:34,120 --> 02:05:38,320
Speaker 1: you can't. Nope, I'm on board, Sign me up. I'm

2264
02:05:38,480 --> 02:05:41,680
Speaker 1: I'm in for this one. This sounds good to me, Clay.

2265
02:05:41,720 --> 02:05:44,320
Speaker 1: I thoroughly enjoyed our time, and I want to give

2266
02:05:44,520 --> 02:05:47,560
Speaker 1: you one opportunity here real quick for folks that want

2267
02:05:47,560 --> 02:05:51,000
Speaker 1: to learn more about Boone or the fulsome Sight and

2268
02:05:51,120 --> 02:05:53,400
Speaker 1: all the other cool stuff that you've been exploring or

2269
02:05:53,400 --> 02:05:56,480
Speaker 1: getting into. Can you just plug where they can find

2270
02:05:56,600 --> 02:05:59,320
Speaker 1: all the good work you're doing these days. Yeah, So

2271
02:05:59,440 --> 02:06:02,760
Speaker 1: check out Grease. So bear Grease is the Meat Eater production,

2272
02:06:02,880 --> 02:06:05,080
Speaker 1: just like Wired to Hunt is. So Mark and I

2273
02:06:05,120 --> 02:06:09,720
Speaker 1: are colleagues, and um yeah, Bear Grease podcast type it in.

2274
02:06:09,840 --> 02:06:14,720
Speaker 1: Bear Grease is a documentary style podcast, typically under an

2275
02:06:14,760 --> 02:06:19,120
Speaker 1: hour long, and on any given podcast, we might have

2276
02:06:20,680 --> 02:06:26,080
Speaker 1: three to five different guests that talk about these issues

2277
02:06:26,120 --> 02:06:32,160
Speaker 1: and and uh we will will pick topics and um,

2278
02:06:32,200 --> 02:06:33,760
Speaker 1: you know, like we did a whole We did three

2279
02:06:33,760 --> 02:06:37,400
Speaker 1: part series on Daniel Boone. We had really the best

2280
02:06:37,480 --> 02:06:40,880
Speaker 1: guests you could have in North America. I think I

2281
02:06:40,920 --> 02:06:43,440
Speaker 1: feel like so we we we We're getting some good

2282
02:06:43,480 --> 02:06:45,480
Speaker 1: guys on and the Fulsome site would be a good example.

2283
02:06:45,480 --> 02:06:48,720
Speaker 1: We're doing a actually a four part series on falsome.

2284
02:06:49,160 --> 02:06:51,160
Speaker 1: My dog's treating a squirrel out here, Mark, I don't

2285
02:06:51,160 --> 02:06:54,000
Speaker 1: know if you can hear that. I probably need to

2286
02:06:54,000 --> 02:06:59,360
Speaker 1: go shoot it out. Yeah yeah, and uh, she's looking

2287
02:06:59,400 --> 02:07:01,920
Speaker 1: at it too. And when she when test starts barking

2288
02:07:02,040 --> 02:07:06,440
Speaker 1: like that, she's looking at it. Um. The Falsome Sight

2289
02:07:07,320 --> 02:07:11,960
Speaker 1: Uh series is just fascinating. We went to the world's

2290
02:07:12,080 --> 02:07:16,080
Speaker 1: expert on Fulsome and archaeologist named Dr David Meltzer and

2291
02:07:16,200 --> 02:07:20,080
Speaker 1: um so anyway, yep, fun stuff man, kind of kind

2292
02:07:20,080 --> 02:07:24,480
Speaker 1: of a deep dive but kind of different, different than

2293
02:07:24,520 --> 02:07:28,120
Speaker 1: most podcast I guess. Yeah. Well, I've told you in

2294
02:07:28,160 --> 02:07:30,200
Speaker 1: person and I'll say it again for everyone to hear

2295
02:07:30,760 --> 02:07:33,560
Speaker 1: it is. It's truly fantastic, Like you're really doing a

2296
02:07:33,560 --> 02:07:35,880
Speaker 1: great job. There's a lot of podcasts out there these days,

2297
02:07:35,880 --> 02:07:37,360
Speaker 1: and I don't like to listen to most of them,

2298
02:07:37,520 --> 02:07:41,840
Speaker 1: but but Bear Grease is real deal. So well done, Clay,

2299
02:07:41,880 --> 02:07:44,680
Speaker 1: and uh, thank you for doing you and thanks for

2300
02:07:44,720 --> 02:07:47,960
Speaker 1: having me up there this year. Yeah, Mark, I really

2301
02:07:48,000 --> 02:07:52,280
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Man, Thank you all right, and that's it.

2302
02:07:52,600 --> 02:07:56,879
Speaker 1: Appreciate you being here. Have a wonderful, wonderful holiday season.

2303
02:07:56,920 --> 02:07:58,760
Speaker 1: I hope you with friends and family. I hope you

2304
02:07:58,800 --> 02:08:01,880
Speaker 1: are enjoying a little time off, maybe some time outside.

2305
02:08:02,360 --> 02:08:04,400
Speaker 1: And uh, I just hope you wrap up this year

2306
02:08:04,400 --> 02:08:06,480
Speaker 1: in a really great way. Thanks for being with us

2307
02:08:06,640 --> 02:08:08,840
Speaker 1: all these past twelve months. I can't tell you how

2308
02:08:08,960 --> 02:08:13,920
Speaker 1: much I appreciate it. Until next time, stay wired to

2309
02:08:14,120 --> 02:08:14,160
Speaker 1: h