Speaker 1: Aba Fam, it's one of the best days of the week.
Speaker 1: It is time for another Holiback Monday. This week we're
Speaker 1: looking back at our episode with wealth strategist and author
Speaker 1: doctor Pamela Jolly. Doctor Jolly. First of all, who doesn't
Speaker 1: love someone called doctor Jolly amazing, So tune in if
Speaker 1: you want advice on everything from how to hire right
Speaker 1: for your family business to how to prepare your business
Speaker 1: for the future, go ahead and give it a listen.
Speaker 2: Hey, hey, hey, we're back. We're super Black today. As
Speaker 2: per usual, we're Brown Ambition. Hey Mandra and special guests.
Speaker 1: Hey, hey to hello to our special guest today, doctor
Speaker 1: Pamela Jolly. I cannot wait to introduce you to y'all,
Speaker 1: To you guys, to our ba Fam. I was actually
Speaker 1: on a panel with doctor Jolly a few weeks ago
Speaker 1: and afterward just wanted to know more. You know how
Speaker 1: on a panel everyone gets like seven and a half
Speaker 1: minutes to speak, but doctor Jolly seven and a half minutes.
Speaker 1: I was like, I need more. Let me let me
Speaker 1: make her talk to me some more. So invited her
Speaker 1: to the show today and I cannot aways tell you
Speaker 1: about her. So let me just give you a little
Speaker 1: bit of a rundown, Doctor Jolly'll let you say hello,
Speaker 1: but let's put some respect on your name and your experience.
Speaker 1: Doctor Pamela Jolly y'all is a wealth strategist, a renowned
Speaker 1: speaker and author committed to guiding men, women, business owners,
Speaker 1: faith leaders, and young professionals toward building legacy their way.
Speaker 1: She is a I mean, how many degrees I can't
Speaker 1: even keep track. She's a graduate of Hampton University, the
Speaker 1: Wharton School of Business, Boston University School of Theology, and
Speaker 1: Graduate Theological Foundation. After building a successful career in finance
Speaker 1: working for companies like Nations, Bake Accenture, and a private
Speaker 1: equity firm she helped build called The Boy Partners. In
Speaker 1: two thousand and four, Doctor Jolly launched Torch Enterprises, which
Speaker 1: is her strategic investment firm that focuses on women and
Speaker 1: minority owned businesses, and in twenty fifteen she launched The
Speaker 1: Narrow Road, which is a methodology focused on educating anyone
Speaker 1: wanting to build wealth via ownership and equity. Doctor Pamela Jolly,
Speaker 1: Welcome to Brown Ambition. So tell us about Torch at
Speaker 1: its Heart. What is Torch Enterprises and what do you
Speaker 1: do as a wealth strategist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so great question. So torch stands for passing the
Speaker 3: torch from one generation to the next to build legacy
Speaker 3: wealth via ownership and increased equity. And so I started
Speaker 3: Torch Hard to Believe twenty years ago based on something
Speaker 3: that really frustrated me that relative to the contributions that
Speaker 3: African Americans have made to America, we just didn't known enough.
Speaker 3: We just didn't have enough wealth. And because I have
Speaker 3: worked my entire career in financial services, I wanted more
Speaker 3: of us to understand that we're not starting from nothing,
Speaker 3: that our legacy is very valuable, and so how do
Speaker 3: we really blend our belief that we will do well
Speaker 3: with finance, business and strategy. So I raised capital and
Speaker 3: awareness for African Americans and their African American businesses and
Speaker 3: their communities. I work with large philanthropic organizations, national banks,
Speaker 3: large organizations, as well as small businesses and communities. I
Speaker 3: love what I do. It's been an amazing journey that
Speaker 3: really started to shape itself post Katrina in New Orleans.
Speaker 3: So I'm indebted to the city of New Orleans. Love
Speaker 3: love New Orleans. But I've worked in over ninety three
Speaker 3: cities across the country. So I love our community and
Speaker 3: I see it as a business and I look forward
Speaker 3: to elevating that standard with as many black people as possible.
Speaker 2: She said, I love us for real. Okay, shout out
Speaker 2: to money for real. For real. Well, I'm excited that
Speaker 2: you're here because I know we're really going to like
Speaker 2: leaning heavily on talking about business and what it looks
Speaker 2: like to be a successful black business kind of what
Speaker 2: are the mistakes that we're making that you see across
Speaker 2: the board, and what we can do to minimize those mistakes,
Speaker 2: get access to capital, and do what businesses are meant
Speaker 2: to do, which is grow and pass along. Well super jazz,
Speaker 2: because you know, Mandy and I are both business owners.
Speaker 2: So I'm just excited you're here.
Speaker 1: Awesome, grateful to be here both of you. And I'm curious,
Speaker 1: like as one of the things you encounter. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously you work on the ground with black and brown
Speaker 1: owned businesses quite often, and for me, as a newbie
Speaker 1: business owner, I think sometimes I wonder if I'm not
Speaker 1: thinking big enough with my business. You know, I just
Speaker 1: want to make it through the first year. Make through
Speaker 1: the first year, yah, And of course having listened to
Speaker 1: Tiffany and had sort of a back back back seat
Speaker 1: to watching her build multiple businesses over the past. I
Speaker 1: don't know, in your decade we've known each other. It's
Speaker 1: been a privilege. But sometimes I'm like, am I allowed
Speaker 1: to think that big yet? And what do I have
Speaker 1: to lose by not thinking big early?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: What I mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Definitely. Well, first of all, it is big for
Speaker 3: you to have sustained a business for a year. You know,
Speaker 3: the reality of small businesses and the tenure of them.
Speaker 2: I did do that having commanded I didn't want to
Speaker 2: put interrupt I was.
Speaker 3: Like, I need you to take ownership of that, right
Speaker 3: because the first year, you know, it's what I call
Speaker 3: the idea phase. You know, you got an idea, But
Speaker 3: business is a series of consistently increasing levels of opportunity, right,
Speaker 3: So it's increasing relationships, it's increased knowledge gain, it's increasing
Speaker 3: steps that have to be streamlined and organized. And so
Speaker 3: that first year is really you teaching you. Like, am
Speaker 3: I a business owner? I believe the call to entrepreneurship
Speaker 3: is a call from God because it's a faith walk
Speaker 3: in many ways, and then that first year it definitely is.
Speaker 3: So I think that you know, when we think about
Speaker 3: businesses one to three, you're really figuring it out. And
Speaker 3: I think importance of seeing things big. Think about Stephen
Speaker 3: Covey where he says, you know, begin with the end
Speaker 3: of mind. You know, you got to focus on your
Speaker 3: exit as soon as you start, Like, how do you
Speaker 3: want to exit this business? Do you want it to
Speaker 3: die with you? Eighty five percent of businesses or lifestyle
Speaker 3: businesses or do you want to pass the torch to
Speaker 3: the next generation? What is this really? You know, some
Speaker 3: lifestyle businesses are for a specific phase and in that
Speaker 3: specific phase of time, you know, then you learn and
Speaker 3: I want to do something different. That's the other thing
Speaker 3: that I would encourage emergent business owners as I call them.
Speaker 3: Don't feel so locked in that you don't feel like
Speaker 3: you can do anything else. There's a tremendous amount of opportunities,
Speaker 3: but you've got to steward and manage your capacity.
Speaker 2: No, that's really powerful because I so when I first
Speaker 2: started my business and where I'm at year fourteen, I believe,
Speaker 2: I know, and so it's from fourteen years I've made
Speaker 2: probably just over thirty million dollars. And this gross obviously
Speaker 2: because you know, I got thirty million. That's my bank account.
Speaker 2: But you know, but I feel like with each iteration
Speaker 2: I have gotten clear on the end in mind. At
Speaker 2: the beginning, the budget Ee was like, can we pay
Speaker 2: these bills? That was the point. And so I made
Speaker 2: a business where I was the Sun, Moon and Stars
Speaker 2: like many of us do, which is nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 2: But I realized that, like, what if I don't want
Speaker 2: to do Budgetista forever? And ever, how do I cuse
Speaker 2: what I've created here to build an additional business where
Speaker 2: I'm not the Sun winning Stars? And so I created
Speaker 2: my online school literature Academy where I'm one of many
Speaker 2: financial educators there, which is great. So it's not heavily
Speaker 2: tied to the Budgetista and all the Budgetista is a
Speaker 2: die with me business, you know, like I just did
Speaker 2: my will and in it it says something happens to me.
Speaker 2: My sisters are instructed to just sell it and take
Speaker 2: the proceeds and split it four ways, because what you're
Speaker 2: going to do, you're gonna be Budgetesta sys, you know.
Speaker 2: And so but then my second business, I have a
Speaker 2: business partner, but I'm a majority owner. And what that
Speaker 2: looks like is that it can continue without me for
Speaker 2: the most part, where I have almost pulled myself almost
Speaker 2: out of it. I'm probably like eighty percent gone, like
Speaker 2: whereas if they have a CEO there, that's not me anymore.
Speaker 2: My face is largely missing, although we still use budgetesta
Speaker 2: to do some promos stuff, but even that, we are
Speaker 2: slowly short and chipping away. And I would say, by
Speaker 2: the end of next year, you won't see me at all.
Speaker 2: And that's a business where something happens to me. You know,
Speaker 2: my shares go to my sisters as well. They're not
Speaker 2: voting shares.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: My business partner also has the ability to buy them
Speaker 2: out should he decide to do so, or if he
Speaker 2: doesn't buy them out, they just continue to you know,
Speaker 2: get their peace, you know. But now this third bus,
Speaker 2: now I've started other smaller businesses in between then, but
Speaker 2: this third business that I'm doing now, I'm very clear,
Speaker 2: like for the first time, I'm really clear at the
Speaker 2: end in mind is I'm building it to sell within
Speaker 2: five years, like, and I'm really clear on that. And
Speaker 2: so can you share with us kind of like how
Speaker 2: can especially when you're first starting out, how can you
Speaker 2: get clear with the end in mind when you're like
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to pay bills.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well get clear about how you're going to pay
Speaker 3: the bills, right, So, marry yourself to your market, marry
Speaker 3: yourself to your target market. Make sure you're building something
Speaker 3: that you love. Make sure you recognize what you do
Speaker 3: best and what you don't do best. Start to elevate
Speaker 3: your trust levels so that you can hire appropriately, you know,
Speaker 3: really getting very focused. Seventy one percent of hiring decisions
Speaker 3: in small businesses, our mistakes, those are very call not
Speaker 3: just them zero. So yes, so it's.
Speaker 1: Not that because we usually go to our family and
Speaker 1: friends first, because.
Speaker 2: First of all, we're about ninety percent over here.
Speaker 3: Well, here's what I believe based from my experience. I
Speaker 3: think it has largely about the blind spots that we
Speaker 3: have about what we really need. Yeah, you know, so
Speaker 3: I really think that people should take some time to
Speaker 3: write out, you know, what is that job description and
Speaker 3: how does it really impact the business. The other thing
Speaker 3: is you know, looking at you know, employment of other people. Both, yes,
Speaker 3: it is an expense, but it's also an investment. It's
Speaker 3: leadership and so it's building relationships. So is this just
Speaker 3: a transactional job where they if they show up, praise God.
Speaker 3: If they do what they tell you, praise God? Or
Speaker 3: is it really you want someone to think with you,
Speaker 3: you know, build with you, with you. So it's really
Speaker 3: getting very clear about that. But I think in the beginning,
Speaker 3: you know, when you don't have enough money, when we
Speaker 3: said we hire our friends and family because it's cheap.
Speaker 3: I think getting very clear about what you can do
Speaker 3: by yourself and the capacity in which you can do it.
Speaker 3: Some folks get so married to such a large vision
Speaker 3: at the end that they kind of discount what they're
Speaker 3: able to do in the beginning. You know, what can
Speaker 3: you actually do with the time that you have? So
Speaker 3: I think it's really important to be very focused and
Speaker 3: very clear. In my work with the Narrow Road, I
Speaker 3: created a predictive modeling component. One of my last jobs
Speaker 3: in corporate America was a market research strategist, so learn
Speaker 3: how to create different algorithms and typing tools and the
Speaker 3: importance of segmenting the market. And what I created was
Speaker 3: a predictive modeling component. So I type people and once
Speaker 3: you understand your wealth identity, we're able to get really
Speaker 3: clear about how do you articulate what you do and
Speaker 3: what you need in order to successfully build the relationships
Speaker 3: required for your business to be successful.
Speaker 2: Somebody to get a hold of that, ask it for
Speaker 2: a friend.
Speaker 3: So my first book was written eight years ago, right
Speaker 3: after my dad passed away, and a larger publisher, so
Speaker 3: I publish it with my own publishing company and then
Speaker 3: a larger publisher, Worthy Publishing that's run by Marva Allen,
Speaker 3: who owns Human Bookstore. She approached from the pandemic. I
Speaker 3: love her too. She's amazing and she actually was one
Speaker 3: of my first clients when I launched Torch in New York,
Speaker 3: and so was so excited. Well, she took the book
Speaker 3: and we reorganized it and it's coming out September twelfth.
Speaker 3: Oh oh, concolation, thank you. And so this is the
Speaker 3: second edition of The Narrow Road, and inside of it
Speaker 3: is the Wealth Identity Typing Tool. And then I have
Speaker 3: a wealth Finishing school that's launching in November where I
Speaker 3: really help people own their identity and really build wealth
Speaker 3: their way so they can build the right relationships with
Speaker 3: the financial professionals. Because that's what I wanted to say
Speaker 3: to one, I'm so proud of your trajectory and what
Speaker 3: you're doing. But even hearing you. You can tell you've
Speaker 3: spoken to professionals that you trust and you understand they've
Speaker 3: given you advice, you've applied that advice, you've gotten their results,
Speaker 3: and you're moving forward. So that's how you do it.
Speaker 3: You basically start with the solid foundation and you build,
Speaker 3: grow and expand from there.
Speaker 1: Okaba fan, we will be right back with more of
Speaker 1: our conversation on legacy building as black business owners with
Speaker 1: doctor Pamela Jolly.
Speaker 2: And we're a back more with doctor Jolly.
Speaker 1: I'm curious at what point because I know Tiffany and
Speaker 1: I talked about you know, the budget needs to for example,
Speaker 1: and you haven't taken any funding Tiffany throughout your ever
Speaker 1: your business is right, of course, I haven't taken any funding.
Speaker 1: You have the occasional friend who's like, I want to invest,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, in what I want to buy me
Speaker 1: a better webcam? I don't know. But taking on investments
Speaker 1: and when do you do you work at all with that?
Speaker 1: You know that piece of it? When do I identifying
Speaker 1: when you need outside capital and when it can be
Speaker 1: beneficial versus actually becoming something that can be cumbersome or
Speaker 1: like be an issue down the road.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So in my book, what I talk about is
Speaker 3: there's four capital relationships. The least intimate relationship with capital
Speaker 3: is transaction, right, So literally it's all a lot of
Speaker 3: hard work. It does have equity in it, but it's
Speaker 3: sweat equity and you work extremely hard. That next one
Speaker 3: is a joint venture, and that's when you bring on
Speaker 3: that friends and family who can support you where you're
Speaker 3: a week now, whether they do it financially. My two
Speaker 3: investors and first two investors in my company were my grandmothers.
Speaker 3: And when black women that you don't expect to be
Speaker 3: able to write checks write you checks, you get cash
Speaker 3: flow positive and profitable a lot faster than others might try.
Speaker 3: So I'm so grateful that it was my grandmothers who
Speaker 3: believed in me that invested That next level of capital
Speaker 3: is where growth capital. Now, growth capital can be either
Speaker 3: debt or equity, and I want people to understand the difference.
Speaker 3: You know, debt has rules and regulation. So the financial
Speaker 3: services industry is the highest regulated industry in the country,
Speaker 3: So they can't give you money because they like you.
Speaker 3: They have to give you money because you fit a
Speaker 3: certain criteria. That's a good risk for them to take
Speaker 3: to deploy capital for you. Now there's different types of
Speaker 3: debt capital that you can get. And during the pandemic,
Speaker 3: and so many things happened in the pandemic as it
Speaker 3: relates to minority owned businesses, people started to realize that
Speaker 3: many minority own businesses did not have a relationship with
Speaker 3: a financial institution that they trusted or understood. A tremendous
Speaker 3: amount of capital was deployed to CDFIs who across the
Speaker 3: country are cash flow lenders. But that means that you've
Speaker 3: got to have positive cash flow. That means that you
Speaker 3: have to understand what your operating budget is, and what
Speaker 3: is the deficit in your operating budget, and what would
Speaker 3: it take for you to build up the working capital level.
Speaker 3: And so then the next level is equity. From my perspective, now,
Speaker 3: equity is the most intimate relationship you can have in
Speaker 3: terms of capital. Equity means that you no longer can
Speaker 3: do everything you want to do. You've got to align
Speaker 3: your vision with those who are investing in you. The
Speaker 3: outcome that they see might be different than the outcome
Speaker 3: that you see. It also might be further down the
Speaker 3: road that you can afford to look and may or
Speaker 3: may not include you right. Equity requires an exit, a
Speaker 3: defined exit in a specific period of time, with a
Speaker 3: specific return on investment, and so oftentimes some of us
Speaker 3: like to jump in skip steps straight to equity.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: One of the things that I want people to think
Speaker 3: about is if you have pre revenue, right, you are
Speaker 3: a pre revenue company and you're looking for equity. There
Speaker 3: are some industries where you do need to raise that
Speaker 3: type of money, But Tiffany and Mandy, you are the
Speaker 3: earn your way right. There's there's earners and there's owners.
Speaker 3: But these earners who they earn their way. Some people
Speaker 3: call it bootstrap. I call it reality. You know, I've
Speaker 3: never raised capital outside of my grand My grandparents and
Speaker 3: my best friend's parents invested in me in the beginning.
Speaker 3: After that, I was able to continue to self invest
Speaker 3: in my enter price to be able to build, grow
Speaker 3: and expand it amazing. But ownership was important to me,
Speaker 3: and passing the torch was important to me. And so
Speaker 3: once again, you've got to get clear about your end.
Speaker 3: What's really important to you is equity capital back not
Speaker 3: at all. Equity capital is amazing, but it's a different
Speaker 3: type of relationship that you have with others around the
Speaker 3: vision for your enterprise.
Speaker 1: So you see them as sorts of like stepping stones,
Speaker 1: you know, starting smaller and then maybe like you want
Speaker 1: to maybe start with like self funding a little bit
Speaker 1: and then seek out like a friends and family around
Speaker 1: of fundraising. I remember when we.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So here's what I'll tell you because it dilutes you.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So if you in the beginning memory we talked about
Speaker 3: the idea stage of business. When you're in the beginning
Speaker 3: stages of trying to figure it out and you raise equity,
Speaker 3: they're not investing in the idea. They're investing in that
Speaker 3: idea maturing to exit. And so you might say, well,
Speaker 3: I want to pivot. Well, if the business is doing well,
Speaker 3: they're going to say why unless you can prove the
Speaker 3: business case all over again. And so it's important for
Speaker 3: you to have the cadence of your capital with the
Speaker 3: cadence of your business.
Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons why not that I was
Speaker 2: ever offered because you know, a black woman, But it's
Speaker 2: one of the reasons why I was like, I don't
Speaker 2: want to take any outside financial I mean aside from
Speaker 2: like if family and friends wanted to invest, but a
Speaker 2: friend of mine just sold his blog for you know,
Speaker 2: eight figures and I suspect close to maybe like forty
Speaker 2: or fifty million dollars. And he was like, I know
Speaker 2: they're beating down your door, Tiffany. I'm like, now, despite
Speaker 2: all the success, despite that, we you know, we've only
Speaker 2: had profitable years, some years more certain than others. I mean,
Speaker 2: now the Budgetista is like rocking and rolling. Like I
Speaker 2: was talked to my CFO the other day. She was like, Tiffany,
Speaker 2: because I have not focused on budget Most of my
Speaker 2: focus has been the Literature Academy for the last six
Speaker 2: or seven years when I opened it because it needed
Speaker 2: just a lot, and so the budget NISTA was like
Speaker 2: kind of on the back barner and it just made
Speaker 2: because it was a solid business that made money connect
Speaker 2: what I call kind of like accidentally. But now that
Speaker 2: I'm no longer the CFO of CEO of that business,
Speaker 2: I focused on the budget NISA, and we have been
Speaker 2: slaying our profit margin to the point where she's like,
Speaker 2: we need to spend more. I'm like, oh, what seventy
Speaker 2: nine percent? Like we knew that just we have doubled.
Speaker 2: I mean I told her in the beginning of the year,
Speaker 2: I said Okay, this is what I want to make
Speaker 2: by the end of the year, and we're already there
Speaker 2: plus some and I was like, all right, some new goals.
Speaker 2: And so I guess my question is it's like, because
Speaker 2: now I'm in this place in space where I want
Speaker 2: to do less, so I really want and I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna lie. When I heard that he had sold his business,
Speaker 2: I got a little salty because I was just like, well,
Speaker 2: why not me? Why not me? With all that I've
Speaker 2: built and grown? Why not me? And I said, well, Tiffany,
Speaker 2: have you intended it to your point doctor Jolly? And
Speaker 2: I had not. I don't want to sell Budgetista because
Speaker 2: I'm not going to lie, he asked me. He's like,
Speaker 2: if you want, I can get budgets are ready to
Speaker 2: sell in sixteen months. And I was like, no, because
Speaker 2: it's still something that I really enjoyed doing. So instead,
Speaker 2: I'm building something else that probably take about five years,
Speaker 2: I'm estimating. But because I just it feels very disheartening
Speaker 2: that I hear people who are not doing nearly as
Speaker 2: much as what you know black and brown women are
Speaker 2: doing that don't get those same opportunities. It's just really frustrating.
Speaker 3: Well, I hear you, Tiffany, and if you would allow
Speaker 3: me to kind of go deeper into that for a second.
Speaker 3: I mean again, I said that equity is the most
Speaker 3: intimate relationship that you can have. But also as black
Speaker 3: and brown individuals, particularly African Americans. You know my research,
Speaker 3: what I found is that we're the only people in
Speaker 3: America who were first capital before we ever made capital,
Speaker 3: and so we can't help but look at business as personal.
Speaker 3: And so I hear you, and I've read your books
Speaker 3: and I've also listened to you from the beginning. Budgeinista
Speaker 3: is a heartbrand. From my perspective, you care about your people,
Speaker 3: you care about what you offered. It's hard to sell that.
Speaker 3: And the other thing is that when people don't understand
Speaker 3: our hearts. You know, black women are so powerful in
Speaker 3: their own right, but oftentimes we don't toot our own
Speaker 3: homewns because we're too busy doing what needs to be
Speaker 3: done to be able to move things that we care
Speaker 3: about forward. And so as a result, it's about relationship.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that there isn't any bias in the marketplace,
Speaker 3: but I am saying that as it relates to investing
Speaker 3: in black women, own brands if you will. It's still
Speaker 3: uncharted territory. We're still very much at the emergent stages
Speaker 3: of building business relationships to be able to do so.
Speaker 3: And you said it yourself, if you really wanted to
Speaker 3: do it, you could, right. But the beautiful thing about
Speaker 3: it is you have a choice. Wealth is a choice.
Speaker 3: You're able to choose how you build wealth with the
Speaker 3: assets that you have been able to build and grow
Speaker 3: and expand. So the other thing about with a Budganista brand,
Speaker 3: I mean, if someone bought it, they might have a
Speaker 3: different vision, and all of a sudden, you see yourself
Speaker 3: all over the place, not portraying the true authentic.
Speaker 2: Selling cult for you.
Speaker 1: Five Yes, I was thinking like a prepaid debit card.
Speaker 2: Oh girl. I told him no to Budgetista. Although he
Speaker 2: was like, I think you can get this amount of money,
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah no, but so I do have
Speaker 2: like this other I bought a company a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago and I've been sitting on it and I've
Speaker 2: just been trying to figure out what to do with it,
Speaker 2: and I thought, you know what, this would actually be
Speaker 2: really great. So I'm working on now, like and to
Speaker 2: your point, building relationship, I just had a really great
Speaker 2: chat with a vice president of a huge financial organization
Speaker 2: that I've known for a number of years, just to
Speaker 2: ask what would you need this to be in order
Speaker 2: for this type of company to be interested. And so
Speaker 2: I'm starting to have those conversations and realizing, oh, I
Speaker 2: need those type of relationships to ask because I'm not
Speaker 2: going to build willy nilly. If I'm going to build
Speaker 2: this new company like and sell it, then I need
Speaker 2: to know who would buy and why and what does
Speaker 2: that look like. So I'm very clear about what I'm
Speaker 2: building because I was just like, Okay, I do want that.
Speaker 2: I want to have an exit, not even for the money,
Speaker 2: but for the Can you do it, Tiffany? Because everything
Speaker 2: I've set my mind to has happened, and this would
Speaker 2: be the biggest external expression of doing something, and so
Speaker 2: I'm just really curious as to can I do it?
Speaker 2: And if I can, then I can bring that information
Speaker 2: back to women who look like me who don't typically
Speaker 2: have access to that type of information.
Speaker 3: I love it, and you can do it, and you
Speaker 3: will do it. And I think what's really powerful about
Speaker 3: what you're saying is that you have the end already
Speaker 3: in mind. So you're building the vision not solely to yourself, right,
Speaker 3: You're allowing people to weigh in and influence that vision
Speaker 3: so that it is palatable to the marketplace.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm still in that. I'm glad you
Speaker 1: gave me three years, said one to three years, or
Speaker 1: in that id phase, I'm like, I don't know what
Speaker 1: the end looks like. I'm feeling good, but I'm of
Speaker 1: course I'm so much earlier in the process that for me,
Speaker 1: it's harder to come to that end. And maybe I'll
Speaker 1: come to a place where it's like, well, this is
Speaker 1: the life. And I hadn't heard that term before. Lifestyle business,
Speaker 1: you know, made money is made money. It's like budgeties
Speaker 1: and no one else can just be that. But I
Speaker 1: think that's the thing I had to I just haven't
Speaker 1: given myself the time to think beyond this at this point.
Speaker 1: It's just some so all in with this, and I
Speaker 1: feel like I just want to focus on this for now,
Speaker 1: but always still be open to like this can't last forever, right,
Speaker 1: Like I can't. It's not sustainable forever, so what will
Speaker 1: come next? And I think to your point about relationship
Speaker 1: building is surrounding my I feel like it's important to
Speaker 1: surround myself with other people doing similar like that entrepreneurial
Speaker 1: spirit and having businesses of their own, so I can
Speaker 1: learn and just always be in the mix with that
Speaker 1: to see what they're doing and to learn from their insights.
Speaker 1: Which has been a big part of what I focus
Speaker 1: on this year is building those relationships.
Speaker 3: I think that's awesome. So the first principle in the
Speaker 3: narrow Road is that seeing is believing, right, so really imagining,
Speaker 3: but also seeing other models of businesses that started and
Speaker 3: you have got this wonderful one right in front of
Speaker 3: you of tifany, but like saying you know what is
Speaker 3: possible and then being able to really measure what you want.
Speaker 3: But also one of the things I love about business ownership,
Speaker 3: you really got to get clear about what you want, yeah,
Speaker 3: because if not, you'll have a lot of people encouraging
Speaker 3: you to do things that you may not want and
Speaker 3: you might own a successful business, but it's not bringing
Speaker 3: you Because we're talking about wealth. We talk about money
Speaker 3: a lot. Anybody can get rich, but to build wealth,
Speaker 3: that's a fulfilled life. So Mandy, start thinking about what
Speaker 3: you want the work that you're doing to be able
Speaker 3: to allow you to do to fulfill your life, and
Speaker 3: if we can put a definitive timeline around it, you know,
Speaker 3: the window for wealth building. You know, we have forty
Speaker 3: years of increasing levels of income to finance eighty plus
Speaker 3: years of living. So think about what does that look like,
Speaker 3: and then run some projections that make some sense for you.
Speaker 3: And there may be some areas of your business that it
Speaker 3: can partner with other people, it can do other things
Speaker 3: and open up avenues for you to be able to
Speaker 3: move forward. But cast that vision in that forty year
Speaker 3: window so that at the end of that you can
Speaker 3: afford retirement and beyond, because it's really really important that
Speaker 3: you are able to sustain a lifestyle beyond the workface.
Speaker 3: I want more black women now than anything before to
Speaker 3: get excited about retirement because there are so many opportunities
Speaker 3: for black and brown women in particular to really make
Speaker 3: an impact. But I want you to be able to
Speaker 3: afford to show up and show out, and we've got
Speaker 3: to plan today in our window of opportunity to be
Speaker 3: able to do that.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to.
Speaker 2: Do that because honestly, one of the biggest mistakes that
Speaker 2: I made is Budganista was going for going sake. So
Speaker 2: with the Budgenesa had just beyond. I just was following
Speaker 2: the lead of like the business in the business was
Speaker 2: telling me what to do versus me telling the business
Speaker 2: what to do. And I struggle with that for a
Speaker 2: really long time, and especially as it became more successful,
Speaker 2: because I was just like, well, isn't this what I
Speaker 2: worked towards? So you know what I mean, it was
Speaker 2: I really had a hard time with it because I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know, the external feedback was go keep going, go
Speaker 2: keep going, but then internally I was like, I kind
Speaker 2: of am don't want to go keep going, or maybe
Speaker 2: I want to go in a different direction. And so honestly,
Speaker 2: it took for like, you know, quite honestly, my husband
Speaker 2: passing away last year for me to.
Speaker 3: Be like, so sorry, Tiffany, thank you sorry, for.
Speaker 2: Me to get super clear or I'm not doing this anymore.
Speaker 2: I'm not, you know, And it made me really clear
Speaker 2: that I had too many people on the team. You know,
Speaker 2: most of them were really wonderful, but I was just like,
Speaker 2: you know, you actually don't need to make as much Tiffany,
Speaker 2: like you know, like I said, now, I mean, at
Speaker 2: one point, you know, I was spending like I don't
Speaker 2: even know it was three times or our operating expenses
Speaker 2: for a budget, these who were three times what they
Speaker 2: are now we actually make more and then keep more.
Speaker 2: So I'm like, and I do way less work. And
Speaker 2: it took like this, like abrupt shift to say, Tiffany,
Speaker 2: what do you actually want to do? Because it's not this.
Speaker 2: You're always working and it's great that everybody wants you
Speaker 2: to be on every podcast and every show and every
Speaker 2: this and every opportunity and every speaking engagement, but at
Speaker 2: what cost to you personally? And are you even really growing? Well,
Speaker 2: that's the part that's the part that's crazy, is that
Speaker 2: as much as I was making as a business, I
Speaker 2: wasn't personally growing as much wealth as you would think
Speaker 2: because I was giving it all away all exactly. I
Speaker 2: don't even know how I meant to become a millionaire,
Speaker 2: quite honestly. Like my financial advice was like God looking
Speaker 2: after you, Tiffany, because you really shouldn't be as much
Speaker 2: as you were paying people. Everybody was getting six figure
Speaker 2: so I wasn't even making six figures, like you know,
Speaker 2: I was paying everybody's six figures salaries for the most part,
Speaker 2: everybody's getting paid well, everybody had insurance. Everybody had and
Speaker 2: so now that's not so, you know, I'm down to
Speaker 2: like three people, well two people, my three myself included.
Speaker 2: I do wigh less. I work, you know, I work
Speaker 2: only really the things I really enjoy or that pays
Speaker 2: super duper well. And so I'm just conscious of not
Speaker 2: letting kind of like that creep in. And so for
Speaker 2: those who are listening, you know, it's not I tell
Speaker 2: this to all my mentees all the time, that it's
Speaker 2: not just success for success sake, but how will it
Speaker 2: meet you? Will you be healthy, happy and whole? You know,
Speaker 2: because you can have all of the things and yet
Speaker 2: none of the things. And I was there. I wasn't unhappy,
Speaker 2: but certainly I was overwhelmed. You know that you can
Speaker 2: What is it that there's a quote that says that
Speaker 2: anything in its excess becomes its opposite. You know, like
Speaker 2: you can actually drink so much water you're drawing yourself.
Speaker 2: A friend of mine almost poisoned herself because she ate
Speaker 2: too many carrots. Yes, so like you know it's healthy
Speaker 2: because she was in middle school, so you know, it's
Speaker 2: so extra in those I was like your orange is
Speaker 2: that normal? She's like, I don't know, but I love carrots,
Speaker 2: And sure enough she fell out in class and it
Speaker 2: turns out that she had like damaged her liver because
Speaker 2: she needs to carrots. So I just share that to
Speaker 2: say that, like, you know, especially like you know, Mandy,
Speaker 2: folks are in your position that are kind of starting
Speaker 2: out that you know, not letting it get ahead of
Speaker 2: you and beyond you. So that way you're actually one
Speaker 2: growing wealth, which is the purpose, and two that it's
Speaker 2: meeting you healthy, happy and whole.
Speaker 3: So you know the pathway that you were on. You know,
Speaker 3: the wealth is generational, right, and I talk about legacy wealth,
Speaker 3: which is cross generational. It takes three generations to build
Speaker 3: legacy wealth, only one generation to lose it. But when
Speaker 3: four generations connect, the wealth will begins to turn. So
Speaker 3: every generation is an opportunity to advance the collective forward.
Speaker 3: But the first generation creates a standard and it works
Speaker 3: extremely hard. And Tiffany, what you just described were the
Speaker 3: components of a first generation business, right, that second generation
Speaker 3: builds on that with structures and systems and relationships, and
Speaker 3: that's what you describe that you have. Now you know
Speaker 3: that third generation acquires you've done that too, acquires additional
Speaker 3: opportunity through work that they have not done themselves, so
Speaker 3: they partner with others. And then the fourth generation basically
Speaker 3: expands it as a model, a whole model where yes,
Speaker 3: you work hard, yes you have systems, Yes you partner
Speaker 3: with other experts in areas that you don't have. But
Speaker 3: here's the model, and it's culturally relevant. And so that's
Speaker 3: what I encourage many of our businesses spend some time
Speaker 3: to build the internal culture. The internal culture is why
Speaker 3: your people will work and you don't have to pay
Speaker 3: them six figures at the door. They can work their
Speaker 3: way up because they understand what the blueprint requires, because
Speaker 3: you've written the blueprint. And so my prayer is that
Speaker 3: more of our companies will really work to establish a
Speaker 3: working culture where people want to live out their career
Speaker 3: there or or bring their best and then move on
Speaker 3: to another level, but leave it better than they found it,
Speaker 3: because that's where we are right now and elevating our
Speaker 3: standard of business. So many of our businesses don't employ
Speaker 3: anyone or employ so many people that they impinge upon
Speaker 3: their profitability. The last thing I'll say is that parody
Speaker 3: is a reality that should we get to that in
Speaker 3: our community would change the game for everyone. You know,
Speaker 3: data shows that African American and Brown owned businesses they
Speaker 3: hire their own, So our growth really provides opportunities to
Speaker 3: build wealth for more than just ourselves. And so really
Speaker 3: thinking about the bigger picture and moving forward in a
Speaker 3: way that fulfills your life with a wealth outcome that
Speaker 3: you believe it is critical. And those two things are
Speaker 3: as important as the other pieces in terms of the
Speaker 3: money and the financials. I'm a warton grad. I love
Speaker 3: the financials. But here's the thing. I want you to
Speaker 3: live and enjoy your life, but I also want you
Speaker 3: to under and why you're doing it so that the
Speaker 3: next generation is following you wants to pick up where
Speaker 3: you left off because you've finished off a platform that
Speaker 3: makes sense.
Speaker 1: So basically, Tiffany's done like four generations of work.
Speaker 2: So I feel like I've been working on the trust.
Speaker 2: Now that's like the last little piece, like I call
Speaker 2: my thing financial wholeness, which is like these ten components
Speaker 2: of your financial life, and the tenth component is estate planning.
Speaker 2: And of course it just has to look different when
Speaker 2: you have a business. And so one of the things
Speaker 2: I you know, I have to really get clear on
Speaker 2: is what happens to my businesses when I'm no longer here,
Speaker 2: and what if, like you know, like my sisters are
Speaker 2: no longer here, what about their children? So really creating
Speaker 2: to your point, doctor Jolly, like a model that the
Speaker 2: wealth can be extended, even if it's not specifically through businesses.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's like, okay, then here how here's how the
Speaker 2: funds are continue to be invested, so that way beyond you,
Speaker 2: you know that you know that the wealth continues there.
Speaker 2: I saw this little old lady on I was watching
Speaker 2: some of YouTube documentary about this woman from the Appalachia,
Speaker 2: and I just remember being so impressed with her because
Speaker 2: her family had two hundred acres in Appalachia, and you know,
Speaker 2: on the surface, you would think like, okay, you know,
Speaker 2: she like stopped going to school on fourth grade. You know,
Speaker 2: she herself said that she wasn't very educated, but she
Speaker 2: had sent all her kids for good schooling. As she said,
Speaker 2: and she said, you know, one of my sons is
Speaker 2: a lawyer, one of my daughters is a teacher. You know,
Speaker 2: they don't want to live here in the backwoods of Appalachia,
Speaker 2: but I sent them off and one thing I did
Speaker 2: was she said, is I put my two hundred acres
Speaker 2: into a trust because won't be no weak links here.
Speaker 2: And I thought that was genius. She said, because this
Speaker 2: land does not belong to any individual person. It belongs
Speaker 2: to our family line. And so she put it in
Speaker 2: a trust. That like, so they all get to benefit financially,
Speaker 2: but not just you, your kids, kids, kids kids, And
Speaker 2: if Walmart comes knocking and says, we'd love to buy,
Speaker 2: you know, one hundred acres, the trust says now, because
Speaker 2: it's not up to that person because she's no longer here.
Speaker 2: And I just thought, wow, that how smart and genius
Speaker 2: this was that she was looking after great great great
Speaker 2: grand babies that she would never meet, but she would
Speaker 2: have a positive effect on.
Speaker 3: And that's what's so beautiful. She's incorporated the family business,
Speaker 3: so it's no longer a lifestyle business. It's a legacy business.
Speaker 3: And so that's really where the opportunity is. And she
Speaker 3: sounds like of the generation the wealthiest generation in our
Speaker 3: community is our grandparents' generation. You know, they have the
Speaker 3: ability to be able to afford to look beyond themselves
Speaker 3: and want better. And so my prayer is that when
Speaker 3: we get to that age. We can do the same,
Speaker 3: but we've set it up a lot earlier, and it's
Speaker 3: compounding and growing at a faster rate because what they're
Speaker 3: doing is setting that strong foundation so that your nephew
Speaker 3: who's a genius has a balance sheet with some equity
Speaker 3: on it when he shows up at the equity table.
Speaker 3: And so oftentimes, you know, we show up with an idea,
Speaker 3: but I want us to show up with an idea
Speaker 3: equity and ask somebody to match that. And so that's
Speaker 3: really where the generational transfer of wealth, not just financial wealth,
Speaker 3: but intellectual, social capital and spiritual really matters.
Speaker 1: Well, Doctor Pamela Jolly, thank you, thank you, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining Ground Ambition. Please tell BA fam
Speaker 1: where they can find out more about you and get
Speaker 1: a copy of that book that's coming out September twelfth,
Speaker 1: Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yes, so September twelfth in a book in a black
Speaker 3: bookstore near you, as well as Amazonandwordy dot com. And
Speaker 3: also I'm at doctor Pamela Jolly on Instagram and then
Speaker 3: Torch Enterprises dot com is the website where you can
Speaker 3: pre order. I really really appreciate this opportunity to be
Speaker 3: on this amazing podcast, Tiffany and Mandy. I've listened to
Speaker 3: other episodes. I love what you're doing in terms of
Speaker 3: raising awareness and encouraging people to think about the things
Speaker 3: that we need to think about so that wealth can
Speaker 3: become a standard in our community. So thanks so much
Speaker 3: for having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you awesome, thank you, jolly excellent, thank you all right,
Speaker 1: Ba Fam, thanks for taking a little walk down memory
Speaker 1: laying with us and what an awesome throwback episode that was.
Speaker 1: Make sure to check out Brown Ambition podcast. We air
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Bye Ba Fam.