1 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a 5 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to 6 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: find a therapist in your area, visit our website at 7 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not 9 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for 11 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: joining me for session three eighteen of the Therapy for 12 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: a Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation 13 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors. Which friend are you? 14 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: And your sister circle? Are you the wallflower, the peacemaker, 15 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: the firecracker or the leader? Take the quiz at Sisterhoodhels 16 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: dot com slash quiz to find out, and then make 17 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,559 Speaker 1: sure to grab your copy of Sisterhood Heels to find 18 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: out more about how you can be a better friend 19 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: and how your circle can do a better job of 20 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: supporting you. Order yours today at Sisterhoodheels dot com. Simply 21 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: uttering the word menopause can result in feelings of dread 22 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: for anyone born with a pair of ovaries. Hot flashes, 23 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: sleepless nights, and painful sex are some of the many 24 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: transitions that we associate with getting older and experiencing menopause. 25 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: But minopause doesn't have to be the secretive, painful experience 26 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: that so many of us were raised to view it as, 27 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: and today Guest is one of the many Black women 28 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: working to erase its stigma. Omi Shade Bernie Scott is 29 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: a seventh generation Black Southern feminist, storyteller and social justice advocate. 30 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: She is also the creator and curator of The Black 31 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: Girl's Guide to Surviving Menopause, a multi media project focused 32 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: on normalizing menopause and aging through the centering of the 33 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: stories of Black women, women identified, and gender expansive people. 34 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: During our conversation, Omishada and I discuss how to navigate 35 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: the transition into menopause, dealing with feelings of grief as 36 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: a result of experiencing menopause, and how to start intergenerational 37 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: conversations around the menopausal experience. If something resonates with you 38 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on 39 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: social media using the hashtag TBG in session, or join 40 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: us over in the Sister Circle to talk more about 41 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: the episode. You can join us at community dot Therapy 42 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com. Here's our conversation. But thank 43 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today on with Shaddy. 44 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I'm really glad to be here. 45 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: You know, I'm a huge fan of you and an 46 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 2: extraordinarily huge fan of Therapy for Black Girls. I'm always 47 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: sharing your information with folks. 48 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: Well, we are honored to have you chatting with us today, 49 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: so we are going to be talking about all things menopause. 50 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: Let's do it. Let's do it. You could right, Let's. 51 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: Just dive right in. So if you could just get 52 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: us started with a definition like what is menopause and 53 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: who is impacted by menopause? 54 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 2: Well, let me start with who is impacted by menopause. 55 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: If you were born with a uterus and ovaries, you 56 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: will be impacted by menopause at some point in your 57 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 2: natural life. So that's a really important thing for all 58 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: folks to know. And being born with a uterus and 59 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 2: ovaries doesn't necessarily mean that you identify as a woman 60 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 2: and so there will be people who are women, people 61 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 2: who are trans, people who are gender queer, people who 62 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: are gender expansive non binary, who will experience menopause because 63 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: they have uterus and ovaries. What menopause is simply when 64 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: you have not had a menstrual cycle for one full 65 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 2: calendar year, so twelve months, three hundred and sixty five 66 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: full days consecutively. This hurts people's feelings when I say this, 67 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 2: doctor Joy, and I don't want to hurt any of 68 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: the listener or the watcher's feelings when I say, if 69 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: you get to day three sixty and your period starts again, 70 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 2: you got to start all the way over. So if 71 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: you get to month eleven, day twenty nine and your 72 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: period starts, you got to start all the way back over. 73 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: So it is the ceasing of your menstrual cycle. And 74 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 2: it is also the diminishing of your levels of hormones 75 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: or estrogen and progesterone. So it is a combination of things. 76 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 2: And your hormones are always shifting and changing as you 77 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: grow and age throughout your lifetime. And so even as 78 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: a postmenopausal person, which I am, I'm postmenopausal now ten years, 79 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: my hormone levels are still changing and adjusting. And so 80 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 2: while I don't experience hot flashes or what people would 81 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 2: call vaso motor symptoms which include hot flashes, night sweats, insomnia, 82 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: brain fog, things like that, I do sometimes have other 83 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: issues because there are about eighty physical manifestations of menopause 84 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 2: and it's on a range. And that's the other thing. 85 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: I feel like it's really important for folks to understand 86 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: that menopause is on a spectrum. There are a lot 87 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: of assumptions about what menopause is, but it really is 88 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 2: a physical, cultural, and political experience that we all should 89 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: be prepared for and should be talking about. And I 90 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 2: think culturally it is a liminal experience like any other 91 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 2: experience you have, where your identity that you were moving 92 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 2: with previously is shifting and changing, which then means that 93 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 2: all your relationships are changing, not just you, but all 94 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: of your relationships with your family and your friends and 95 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: your colleagues and all of those things. And so it 96 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: is quite the cultural phenomenon in my opinion. 97 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that you know, and I'm aware 98 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: as you were talking a lot of the symptoms that 99 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: you're talking about, I don't know that I knew they 100 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: were connected to menopause or perimenopause, any of that. And 101 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: I think it just speaks to like the secrecy that 102 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: it often feels like happens related to menopause. So can 103 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: you say a little bit about why it exists in 104 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: such secrecy and how that might contribute to the misinformation 105 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: we get about menopause. 106 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 2: Well, the first time the terminology of menopause was actually 107 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 2: used publicly was around eighteen twenty one by a French physician, 108 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 2: and it was not in service to providing better care 109 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: for women. It was actually in service to reinforce the 110 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: patriarchal views of the fragility of women and to pathologize 111 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 2: our health. If you look globally at the experiences that 112 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: people were having with menopause, there are rights of passages 113 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 2: that most Indigenous communities would have for women or girls 114 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: as they are navigating different life changes movement from being 115 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: a child to an adult, for folks who are going 116 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: to have children, if you're a woman or a birth 117 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: in person, they would be a rights of passage for that. 118 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: And there were certainly rights of passages where you were 119 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: moving into what people would call your chrone phase. Right, 120 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: but as colonialism and slavery took hold a lot of 121 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 2: the ways in which we understand the feminine form. And 122 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: to be sure, black women, there were all these reasons 123 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: why our humanity was always brought into question. The feminine form, 124 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: the form of being a woman is already pathologized. And 125 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: then you layer into that the growing racism that was 126 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: happening upon our arrival here in this country, and that 127 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: we've been navigating and disrupting and fighting and pushing back against. 128 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: Always returns to, well, they're not really women anyway, they're 129 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: not really human anyway, they're not really in pain anyway, 130 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: So what does it even matter? So we live in 131 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: Western civilization, We live in a society that centers youthfulness, 132 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: centers whiteness thanness straightness, and so it makes sense that 133 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 2: the conversations around our bodies, our gender identities, our sexuality, 134 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: our reproductive health would be challenging and oftentimes being dictated 135 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 2: and directed by people who don't have uteruses and ovaries. 136 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: So I think that's the why. 137 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: So you said a little bit about this kind of 138 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: like focus in our culture on like youth and youthfulness 139 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: and all of that stuff. Can you say a little 140 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: bit more about that and talk about how your work 141 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: really makes space for black women of older ages to 142 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: kind of really bee. 143 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 2: There's always been a part of our culture where people 144 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: have been chasing the fountain of use, and part of 145 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 2: that is attached to our relationship with death and dying 146 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: and the fear of death and dying. I don't think 147 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: that there has been a lot of conversation or work 148 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: or understanding around our understanding of death and dying as 149 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: a society. And I'm speaking specifically about Western culture the 150 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: United States. Now, certainly inside of the United States, we 151 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 2: are not a monolith, and we know that there are 152 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 2: a lot of different ways that people understand this journey 153 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: we have as human beings. But to be sure, like 154 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 2: generally speaking, there is a fear of getting older because 155 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: there is some confusion and sometimes fear around our own mortality. 156 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: And so when you're talking about getting older, that's one thing. 157 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 2: But when it becomes a parent that you're getting older, 158 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: that's another thing. And I think that what that does 159 00:09:55,080 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 2: is that elicits concern, It elicits confusion if there if 160 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: a person is not culturally grounded, and inside of that 161 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: culturally grounding, that can be cultural norms they can be 162 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 2: spiritual norms or religious norms that helps them make sense 163 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 2: of their own mortality that they believe in or lean 164 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: on that. It could be a really tricky kind of situation. 165 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 2: And then we also live in a capitalistic society, and 166 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 2: capitalism is always looking for an opportunity to create the 167 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 2: supplied demand. Right, So if the larger question is how 168 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: do I stave off death, how do I disrupt aging? 169 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 2: Anti aging? What do I do to do that, they're 170 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: happy to oblige. Capitalism is happy to applies you, and 171 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 2: it will oblige you with creams and elixirs and all 172 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 2: manner of things that you can put in your body 173 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: or up your butt that will help you feel better. 174 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 2: But the fact of the matter is there needs to 175 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: be a cultural and narrative shift to help people understand 176 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: that all of them, not one person, is going to 177 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 2: get out of this thing alive, and that every step 178 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 2: of the way you're going to have different experiences and 179 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: you deserve to be supported every step of the way. 180 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 2: And there should be opportunities to have conversation and to 181 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: have a deeper understanding for yourself around this journey of 182 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: your life and what the black Girl's guide really focuses 183 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 2: on through a reproductive justice lens is body sovereignty. We're 184 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 2: trying to help people interrogate, understand, be curious about how 185 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 2: are you at home inside your own body? Right? And 186 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: how are you at home inside of a body that's aging? 187 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: Because from the moment you take your first breath to 188 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 2: you take your last, your body's aging. And so there 189 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 2: are all the markers you're looking at me, and I've 190 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: got this gray hair, and there are things that I 191 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 2: look at physically that we're not there last year, five 192 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: years ago, ten years ago, twenty years ago, right. And 193 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 2: so every day I I'm not only making peace with 194 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 2: where I am in my life, I'm also committed to 195 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 2: finding ways to be at home and loving the body 196 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: that I'm in as it continues to evolve and change. 197 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 2: And that's not the conversation that is being held widely 198 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 2: in the media. You know, we're in a kind of 199 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 2: a menopause, not only moment, but movement because of Generation X, 200 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 2: which is the generation I'm a part of. In two years, 201 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 2: we're going to have over a billion people around the 202 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: world who will be menopausal two years twenty twenty five. 203 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 2: I have not seen anything from the un the who 204 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: or NIH. There's not been any larger multidisciplinary conversation around 205 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: menopause and aging. It tends to be compartmentalized to either 206 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 2: folks who are physicians, obgins, researchers. And then you now 207 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 2: have the onslot of semtech companies, lifestyle companies that are 208 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: offering all manner of products, which is fine, and also 209 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 2: these virtual communities that tend to be for white, CIS, 210 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 2: hetero affluent women, and so people who already exist at 211 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: the margins are being pushed further to the margins. And 212 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: that's why The Black Girl's Guide to Surviving Menopause is 213 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 2: so critical, because we center folk at the margins, and 214 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: we are intentional about doing culture and narrative shift work 215 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: through storytelling. And we're also clear that any policy work 216 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: that's going to happen, any advocacy work that's going to happen, 217 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,239 Speaker 2: has to be humanized and it has to be inclusive. 218 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: And so we want to be a part of those conversations. 219 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: And we have over four years of qualitative data from 220 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 2: all the storytelling that we've been doing that we can 221 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,119 Speaker 2: offer as information data reality. 222 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: So can you share a little bit about your own 223 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: transition into menopause. What were the first signs that you 224 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: knew you were even entering menopause. 225 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 2: I actually began my journey with menopause probably in my 226 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 2: late thirties. In retrospect, it wasn't obvious to me I 227 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: did have these kind of shifts and changes in my 228 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: minstral cycle. Where I started my period October thirty first, 229 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine. In my period had been pretty much 230 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: right as rain except for the time that I was 231 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 2: pregnant and I had my first time when I was 232 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 2: twenty five. I was pregnant again at forty and that's 233 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 2: when the language of menopause was introduced to me because 234 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: I had a pregnancy loss. I had a miscarriage, and 235 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 2: so my obg y N said to me, this is 236 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 2: not uncommon for periodmenopausal people to have a pregnancy loss 237 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 2: because you're born with your full complement of eggs, right, 238 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: So all the eggs you will ever have, you're born with, 239 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: which actually is really cool because that means that you've 240 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 2: never not existed because all the eggs that your mother 241 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: ever had you were there, your grandmother were there, So 242 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: we've always been there in some way, shape or form, 243 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 2: which I think is beautiful, but the egg's also age, 244 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: and so I tease, I say, I have a twenty 245 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: five year old egg and my thirty one year old son, 246 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: and I have a forty one year old egg and 247 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 2: I seem to be fifteen year old son. But I 248 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 2: wasn't clear at all about the whole Perry piece, like 249 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 2: that was completely new to me. I was like, wait, 250 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 2: there's a pregame. What are you talking about. And then 251 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: after I had the miscarriage, I got pregnant again at 252 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: forty one and I have my youngest son. And then 253 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 2: maybe two years three years after that, that's when I 254 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 2: actually started having hot flashes. And I had hot flashes 255 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: for probably about a year, maybe eighteen months, and then 256 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: I had my last period in twenty thirteen. And so 257 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 2: everybody's experience is really, really, really individualized. I cannot express 258 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 2: that enough. There's so much about who you are are 259 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: that will dictate your menopause experience, So like who you 260 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: are physically, your family of origin, who you are culturally, 261 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: where you live, how you are navigating in the world. 262 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 2: In terms of the things that we might experience because 263 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 2: of racism or patriarchy, massaging, like all of those things 264 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: play a direct role in how you are going to 265 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: experience menopause, and so there's not a one size fits 266 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 2: all and it's definitely not cookie cutter. 267 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, so you talked 268 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: about the experience of menopause being at thisliminal space right, 269 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: like when we are transitioning from one identity to another. 270 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: Can you say a little bit about what that transition 271 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: has been like for you, Like, have there been any 272 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: experiences of grief or loss or other things and how 273 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: have you navigated that. 274 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 2: My relationship with grief is really dynamic. There are times 275 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 2: is where I feel like it's soft but present, melancholic 276 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 2: but do and then there are times where it kind 277 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 2: of takes me by surprise, and I want to be 278 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 2: more mindful and thoughtful about those times where it feels 279 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 2: like grief is sitting on my chest and just like 280 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 2: smothering me, and so I just let it be what 281 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 2: it's going to be. And the most important thing for 282 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 2: me around my relationship with grief is being honest about 283 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 2: when I'm grieving. And I think it's very healthy to 284 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 2: be able to not see grief as something that you 285 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 2: get to tie with a nice neat bow. And be 286 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 2: done with it and it's good, like it's a one 287 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: and done, because it's not. And I think that for 288 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 2: this menopause journey, there is a really interesting dynamic and 289 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 2: way in which grief and rage show up. We have 290 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: a really good conversation with sister Jennifer Mullen from Decolonizing 291 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 2: Therapy and she said that grief and rage are siblings, 292 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 2: and I had never heard that before, and I was like, 293 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 2: that makes sense to me, because I think as Black people, 294 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: we have not always been afforded the ability to be 295 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 2: emotionally present to all of our emotions. Certain ones, yes, 296 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: and so we mask. And so sometimes the way we 297 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 2: mask grief is by rage or being detached or whatever. 298 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, this makes a lot of sense. 299 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 2: And so if you've not been supported as a person 300 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 2: with your own agency with your body, or maybe you have, 301 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 2: and you just for the first time are encountering I 302 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 2: realize my body is changing. I'm going through a really 303 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 2: intense time and a different type of grief is showing 304 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 2: up for you. That's illegible, right, Like, it's not the 305 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 2: grief you felt when a parent transitioned or a partner 306 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 2: or a friend. You are in a transformation that might 307 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 2: bring up grief for you in a way that doesn't 308 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 2: make sense. So here's an example. We interview this really 309 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:05,479 Speaker 2: beautiful young person named Austin. Austin is genderqueer, transmasculine person 310 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 2: who had gender affirming surgery when they were I think 311 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 2: twenty eight, and they had complications from the surgery. They 312 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 2: had a full hysterectomy and they had complications, and they 313 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 2: also went immediately into menopause, so there were two things 314 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 2: going on at the same time. And they also were 315 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,719 Speaker 2: feeling these really deep feelings of grief and they were 316 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 2: trying to make sense of it. It was their therapist 317 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 2: that helped them realize, you know, you're menopausal, right, And 318 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 2: Austin was like, no, no one said anything to me 319 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 2: about the fact that once I had this shysterrected me, 320 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 2: I would be menopausal immediately. And two, they had this 321 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 2: really beautiful conversation about disenfranchised grief and how as a 322 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: black Southern trans masculine person, what they were also experiencing 323 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 2: was disenfranchised grief, Like, how dare you grieve this transition 324 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 2: you are going through? This is something want it wasn't it? 325 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 2: So how dare you. It's like when you get that 326 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 2: amazing job and then you get on the job and 327 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 2: my progressions are choking you out every day and people 328 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: being like, you better go to work and shut your mouth. 329 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 2: That's a good job. You able to pay your bills 330 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: and you could pay your mortgage. What you angry about. 331 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 2: So I can't grieve. I cannot grieve how I'm being 332 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 2: treated with my experience is. And so liminality is a 333 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 2: really fascinating anthropological phenomenon that happens inside of our cultures 334 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 2: where you find yourself coming to the end of a 335 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: journey of a period of your life where you had 336 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: a particular role, a particular function, particular relationships, some level 337 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 2: of power or maybe not, and then you move into 338 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: this liminal space. It's just like that in between this 339 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 2: that can be really really disconcerting, that in between space. 340 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 2: It's like walking in a cricket room. It's like sometimes 341 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 2: you can't make out where you're going, and so you 342 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 2: need journey mats. You need people who walk with you. You 343 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 2: need people who can say stand up, like the rumors crooked, 344 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 2: you're not it's okay, Like take my hand, or here's 345 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 2: a lantern, here's a light, I'll walk with you, so 346 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 2: people who've journeyed the path before you, people who are 347 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: coming behind you. I think that's part of the work 348 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 2: that we are very committed to as well, is that 349 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 2: we want to illuminate the path so when people find 350 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 2: themselves in that liminal space, they're not reaching around in 351 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 2: the dark, trying to find their way and just feeling 352 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 2: really disoriented. 353 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: I love that. I feel like you're painting such a 354 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: beautiful picture. And one of the things I love about 355 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: what you said today and the work that you're doing 356 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: is a real focus on intergenerational conversations and like, how 357 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: do we pass these messages on. I wonder if you 358 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: can share something that you heard or learned about mental 359 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: pause when you were younger that you have since learned 360 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: was not correct. 361 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,959 Speaker 2: I don't know if I heard or learned something that 362 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 2: wasn't correct, but I was very observed. I don't know 363 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 2: about you, but I grew up both in Maryland and 364 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 2: North Carolina, and my mama did not have sisters. She 365 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 2: had chosen SYS, so my aunties were her best girlfriends, 366 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 2: and my sister and I were proficient at ear hustling. 367 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 2: This is the seventies. We had a skill set. And 368 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 2: when my mom's best girlfriends would come into town, they 369 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 2: were like in their mid to late forties, early fifties. 370 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 2: You could ear hustle, which I know now. The frequency 371 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 2: of their conversation were these menopausal conversations. And I would see, 372 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 2: like my aunt Emma, which was my dad's sister, she 373 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 2: would have this like ubiquitous washcloth on her shoulder, so 374 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 2: when she would have a hot flash, she would take 375 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 2: the washcloth off her shoulder and pat her face. And 376 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 2: I always thought she was being very dramatic. I was like, 377 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: it coundnot possibly be that bad. And she also was 378 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 2: a bit tyrannical about the thermostat. If you wanted to 379 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 2: get in trouble, go ahead and stop playing around touching 380 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 2: people's thermostats. She's not allowed, not allowed. And it moved 381 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 2: from being frigid cold to being hell hot when she 382 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 2: got older. It was really interesting. I was like, twenty 383 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 2: years ago, you were freezing us out. Now I'm about 384 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 2: to melt in your house. But it was this very 385 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: interesting observation. And because my mom transitioned when I was 386 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 2: a young woman and a young mom, I didn't get 387 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 2: to have a lot of the conversations that I think 388 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: we would have had. My mom was a registered nurse 389 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 2: and she was not a boomer. My mother was born 390 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty and I definitely feel confident that a 391 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 2: lot of the ways that she talked to us about 392 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: our bodies, if she were using the language we use now, 393 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 2: it would be like consent. My mom was just like, look, 394 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 2: that's your body. Nobody can touch your body without your permission, 395 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 2: not even me or Daddy. And we were like, okay. 396 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: And I know now that that would be that consent 397 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: conversation that we're having with young people. And so I 398 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 2: felt prepared for my first cycle. And there was actually 399 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 2: really sweet ritual that happened with my first cycle. My 400 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: Auntie's sent me a package of seven day a week panties. 401 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 2: Do you remember these? Underway? There were these cotton on 402 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: granny panty cotton panties came all the way up to 403 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 2: your sternum, and then they had the days of the 404 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 2: week written on them, and there were all these really 405 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 2: pretty pastel colors like blue and pink and lilac, and 406 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 2: two girdles sanitary napkins. A sanitary are like a strap 407 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 2: because back then you get pennant. They had just started 408 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 2: using ahesive, so you could pin it. There was like 409 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 2: kind of sort of new ahesive, or you could wear 410 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 2: a belt. They sent me this whole package, and we 411 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 2: don't get packages when you're going into menopause. It's almost 412 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 2: like you're being outed if you say it's to someone, 413 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 2: I'm going through menopause. There are all of these projections 414 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 2: and assumptions that people will make about you. And if 415 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: you're not sharing that you're going through menopause, there are 416 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 2: all these projections and assumptions that people might make about you. 417 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: You unlocked the memory for me because now I did 418 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: come from a family with a lot of women. My 419 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: mom actually has six sisters, and so these conversations. I'm 420 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: also a very proficient ear hustler, because you gotta be 421 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: got it right to got to be listening around the corners. 422 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: And I now remember my mom having all these conversations 423 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: about chaleurs. So you know, I'm from Louisiana, so I 424 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 1: imagine that this is some like interpretation of some French 425 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: word that means cold, but it was for hot flashes 426 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: right now, So she would talk about like these chaleurs 427 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: that she was experiencing and I didn't know until later 428 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: like what that meant, but that it was a hot 429 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: flash that she was talking about. 430 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 2: That makes so much sense, and also so much of 431 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 2: your menopause experience if it happens chronologically what happened with 432 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 2: other life changes. I realized that when I started my period, 433 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 2: my mother was either periodmenopause or menopausal. My parents were 434 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 2: going through a divorce, and so there are just different 435 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 2: things that happen in this time period of people's lives 436 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 2: that is mid life, that now in retrospect, I can 437 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 2: look back on and recognize. And I do think that 438 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 2: if my mom were alive, we would be having like 439 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 2: all kinds of conversations of a wine around, like, oh 440 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 2: my goodness, I get it now. And I do remember 441 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 2: my mother saying to me when I went out to college, 442 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 2: keep living, daughter, keep living right, and as you keep living, 443 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 2: you look back on those things you're like, gosh, I 444 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,239 Speaker 2: get it now, Oh my goodness, I understand better, and 445 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 2: I have so much more compassion. And I still have 446 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 2: a very beautiful, deep relationship with her and my aunties 447 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 2: who are all ancestors now as well. And so I 448 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 2: do believe that the work that we are doing in 449 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three that we started in twenty nineteen is 450 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 2: healing for them too. I think that there's a really beautiful, 451 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 2: energetic way that the conversations we're having and the way 452 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 2: that we are pushing through some of these taboos and 453 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 2: stereotypes has the ability to time been and heal them too. 454 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 2: That's my hope, at least. 455 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: I love that from our conversation after the break. So, 456 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: what advice would you give to people who want to 457 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: maybe start some of these intergenerational conversations with their elders 458 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: or you know, even with the younger people in their 459 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: life without making people feel uncomfortable. 460 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 2: So we start conversations with the individual and giving them 461 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 2: space to just talk about themselves, how they're feeling inside 462 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 2: of their bodies, how they feel about their bodies, their relationship, 463 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: are understanding to pleasure their relationship, or understanding of grief 464 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 2: their relationship, or understanding of creativity, how they've changed over time. 465 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 2: One of our favorite questions we asked in this first 466 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 2: iteration that we were doing conversations in twenty nineteen was like, 467 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 2: how different are you from ten years ago? It doesn't 468 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: matter if you were twenty eight, forty eight or seventy 469 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 2: eight in the group, everybody could think back. It's like, gosh, 470 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 2: where was I ten years ago? And that's a very 471 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 2: easy on ramp to a conversation, right, and you just 472 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: keep that conversation going. You just keep grounding that conversation again, 473 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 2: like we also do activities where we give people an 474 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,959 Speaker 2: opportunity they want to write a letter to their future 475 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 2: self and not in the where do you want to 476 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 2: be in five years? But what are some things that 477 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 2: you want to speak over your future self? How do 478 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 2: you want to give your future self some love or 479 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 2: a letter to the ancestor that you will be. How 480 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 2: do you want people to remember you? What kind of 481 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 2: legacy do you want to leave for yourself, your family 482 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 2: and your community. And so when you start at a 483 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 2: very personal level, you learn all these different storytelling tools 484 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 2: that help people connect with each other. But I think 485 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 2: that the easiest thing for a person to do is 486 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 2: just to start over some really good food, you know, 487 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 2: whether that's a pot of pinto beans or some collars 488 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 2: or a sandwich or some croakers. Like if you fry 489 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 2: some fish, we're gonna have a good conversation. I can 490 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 2: tell you that right now. And you just asked me, like, 491 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: what were you like when you were sixteen? That's a 492 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 2: really really good place to start and just start the 493 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 2: conversation and invite everybody to be a part of the conversation. 494 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 2: I also partnered with a business called Kendra last year 495 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 2: and we released a deck called Seymour. The deck has 496 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 2: one hundred discussion cards and they're broken up into elements 497 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 2: and we talk about identity, grief, mental health, sexuality, intimacy, play, pleasure, creativity, menopause, aging. 498 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 2: It's almost like a mashup of a oracle deck meets 499 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 2: a tarot deck meets a game deck, and you shuffle 500 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,959 Speaker 2: the cards and you can use them for conversation. One 501 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 2: of my friends, Brittany, was doing it with her grandmother 502 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 2: and her granddaddy was earhustling the conversation and that's how 503 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 2: she found out that her grandparent are having quite the 504 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 2: lovely sexual relationship in their seventies. She texted me she 505 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,959 Speaker 2: was like, why are my grandparents getting it in? And 506 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: I said, wait, what, how did the same or deck 507 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 2: take them there? She said, I wasn't even talking to 508 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 2: my granddaddy. I was talking to my grandma and my auntie, 509 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 2: and he chimed in. He said, what y'all talking about? 510 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 2: He said, oh, yeah, we have an amazing sex a 511 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 2: lot and she said, I feel like I didn't need 512 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 2: to know that, but I'm glad I do. And then 513 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 2: it opened up actually a conversation with the whole family. 514 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 2: So it started off with her grandmother and her aunt 515 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 2: that her husband chimed in, and next thing you know, 516 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,479 Speaker 2: there's this inner generational conversation happening with both men and 517 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 2: women inside a black family in the South. That's perfect, 518 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 2: That's exactly what you want, right. 519 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: I love that. That sounds like a great way to 520 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: kick off the next fish fry. 521 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 522 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, So tell us more about the incredible work that 523 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: you do as a part of the Black Girl's Guidesving Menopause. 524 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: What kinds of offerings and resources are available through the organization? 525 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 2: Sure sure, sure, sure. So we have a podcast and 526 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 2: we are in year five of the podcast, Season five 527 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 2: of the podcast, and we also host these intergenerational conversations. 528 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 2: Twenty nineteen, we did them in person and then like 529 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 2: everybody else in the world, we move them virtual. In 530 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 2: twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. Last year, we were 531 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 2: able to host our first in person gathering since twenty nineteen, 532 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 2: and we were about to hit the road. So without 533 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 2: telling tales out of school, we are about to take 534 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 2: it back to our roots and host some intergenerational conversations diasporically. 535 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: So I actually am leaving for the UK next week 536 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 2: and we'll be having conversations with black women who are 537 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 2: doing menopause advocacy and black wellness work. And we will 538 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 2: host our first intergenerational conversation in the UK in the 539 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 2: first week in April, and then we're also going to 540 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 2: take it to New York and we'll be in Toronto 541 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 2: and in Puerto Rico. And then right around the time 542 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 2: we all got the news that George Floyd had been murdered, 543 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 2: I was trying to figure out what kind of offering 544 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 2: we could make as a platform, and that's how our 545 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 2: zine was born. And the zine is called Messages from 546 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 2: the Menopausal Multiverse. It's an annual zine and it's very creative, 547 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 2: artistic zine. It's not a zine about menopause. It's about 548 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 2: the wisdom that comes from the menopausal multiverse that we 549 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,959 Speaker 2: can offer to Black folk. So the first year it 550 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: really was just almost like a love letter to Black people. 551 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 2: That was we know how to keep each other safe. 552 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 2: You should rest, you should take care of yourself, trust yourself, 553 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 2: be good to yourself, love each other, protect each other. 554 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 2: And so we just went back into the podcast and 555 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 2: excavated narratives and quotes from the podcast and then we 556 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 2: refashioned them into this kind of afrofuture extring theory zine 557 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 2: and offered it to the community. And then in twenty 558 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 2: twenty one, we wanted to focus on mothering and our 559 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 2: understanding of mothering and how mothering is not bound by 560 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 2: age or gender or even being alive, and how much 561 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 2: we mother each other and you don't have to physically 562 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 2: give birth to a child to mother people. And then 563 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 2: last year we decided to focus on folklore, and we 564 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 2: wanted to give the narrative of four folkloric tales back 565 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 2: to the women who were the central characters of these 566 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 2: folkloric tales. So we pulled a folkloric tale from Senegal, 567 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: went from Kenya, one Meso American, and one Slavic tale, 568 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 2: and we basically made it like if you were telling 569 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 2: your story, you would say, now, I know you all 570 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 2: have heard this story about me, but let me tell 571 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 2: you who I really am. So we took the narrative 572 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 2: back from the narrator and gave it back to the 573 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,239 Speaker 2: woman and we offered that last year. We are not 574 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 2: going to do the zine this year, and our podcast 575 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 2: is going to look different this year because what we're 576 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 2: going to be offering actually will be the audio diary 577 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 2: of all of our trips, so people will get to 578 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 2: hear the voices from folk in the UK and what's 579 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 2: happening there, what's happening in New York, what's happening in Canada, 580 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: and what's happening in Puerto Rico. And that's how we 581 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 2: will use the audio platform that we've done. And then 582 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,439 Speaker 2: the last thing is we are very intentional of trying 583 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 2: to figure out how we do advocacy work. I've done 584 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 2: reproductive justice advocacy work for about fifteen years, and prior 585 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 2: to launching The Black Girl's Guide as a part of 586 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 2: a creative sabbatical, I had no intention of actually launching 587 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 2: a project. I just wanted to do something while I 588 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 2: was on sabbatical that would be meaningful for me. And 589 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 2: because I love storytelling and I always feel like storytelling 590 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 2: has a healing quality to it, I wanted to document 591 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 2: the conversations I was having and then maybe trying to 592 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,240 Speaker 2: find a way to offer it back to the community. 593 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 2: And then this thing became something else and had a 594 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 2: life of its own, and I'm grateful for that. But 595 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 2: there's just been this really interesting way in which people 596 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 2: who are doing menopause work. There's a disconnect inside of 597 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 2: the reproductive justice landscape. So there's been so much amazing 598 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 2: work done around making sure folk have access to reproductive 599 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 2: healthcare and abortion access and contraception and sex education and 600 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 2: sex positivity. And it's almost like when you get to perimenopause, 601 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 2: you fall off the cliff, as if bodily autonomy, agency 602 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 2: and body sovereignty stops when you become a menopausal person, 603 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 2: and it absolutely does now. So I'm being intentional about 604 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 2: partnership and helping with some policy work to try to 605 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 2: like expand that. And there's right now some federal legislation 606 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: where they're working on some potential menopause legislation and we're 607 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 2: hoping to be able to be involved in that as well, 608 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 2: so we'll see what happens with that. 609 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,399 Speaker 1: So many exciting things coming down the pipeline, so let 610 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 1: us know where can we stay connected to all the 611 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: incredible work that you have. What is your website as 612 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: well as any social media channels you'd like to share. 613 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 2: Absolutely, you can find us at ww dot Black Girl's 614 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 2: Guide to Surviving Menopause. You can follow us on Instagram 615 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 2: at Black Girl's Guide to Menopause, or you can follow 616 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,320 Speaker 2: me at Onmi Shah Dave, Bernie Scott. The podcast you 617 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 2: can listen to it on Apple, Spotify, whatever platform that 618 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 2: you like to listen to it. We have a really 619 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 2: beautiful intergenerational team of black women as well, so what 620 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 2: you see externally being offered to community also is reflected 621 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 2: of who our team is and we range in age 622 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 2: from thirty to fifty seven and it's just I love 623 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 2: being able to work with this group of people who 624 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 2: keep me honest and keep me safe beautiful. 625 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for joining us today. I 626 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. 627 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 2: You're welcome. You're so welcome. I'm glad to be here. Y'all. 628 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 2: Keep doing the work you do is so vitally important, 629 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 2: and mental health is a critical part of the menopause 630 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 2: journey as well, where people need to know that whatever 631 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 2: they're experiencing is real and that they have support and 632 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 2: That's why I always will point folk in your directions. 633 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 2: So thank you for the platform that you have for us. 634 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: I'm so glad Amishade was able to share her exercise 635 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: with us for this episode. To learn more about her 636 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: and her work, visit the show notes at Therapy for 637 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot Com slash Session three eighteen and don't forget 638 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: to text two of your girls right now and encourage 639 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: them to check out the episode. If you're looking for 640 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory 641 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if 642 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: you want to continue digging into this topic or just 643 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: be in community with other sisters, come on over and 644 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner 645 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 1: of the Internet designed just for black women. You can 646 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. 647 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and 648 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all 649 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. Look forward 650 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take 651 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: good care. Which friend are you and your Sister Circle? 652 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: Are you the Wallflower? The peacemaker, the firecracker, or the leader. 653 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: Take the quiz at Sisterhoodheels dot com slash quiz to 654 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: find out and then make sure to grab your copy 655 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: of Sisterhood Heels to find out more about how you 656 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: can be a better friend and how your circle can 657 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: do a better job of supporting you. Order yours today 658 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: at sisterhoodheels dot com.