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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to Hoops and I you're at the volume.
Speaker 2: Happy Wednesday, everybody, hope all of you guys are having
Speaker 2: a great week. Really quick show this morning, because we're
Speaker 2: gonna be going live again later tonight. Tonight, We're going
Speaker 2: live after the final buzzer of Warriors Clippers, a big
Speaker 2: opportunity for the Warriors to continue their positive momentum, and
Speaker 2: now that we know Kawhi Leonard is out, an opportunity
Speaker 2: where it seems like a much more winnable game for them.
Speaker 2: Obviously less in the sense that they don't get the
Speaker 2: challenge or really the benchmark test that we would hope
Speaker 2: to see from a full strength Clippers team, But considering
Speaker 2: their predicament in the standings, there's no way to slice
Speaker 2: that other than as a good thing, because it's an
Speaker 2: opportunity for them to continue to gain a gain ground. Specifically,
Speaker 2: the Lakers and Warriors would both like to get out
Speaker 2: of that ninth and tenth seed this year as they
Speaker 2: try to get into a situation where they have two
Speaker 2: opportunities to win a play in game or maybe get
Speaker 2: out of the playing game in general. As we look
Speaker 2: down the stretch, the Sacramento Kings are starting to lose
Speaker 2: some ground in the standings. The Phoenix Suns have a
Speaker 2: really tough schedule down the stretch of the season, so
Speaker 2: a lot of room for jockeying in that position. Big
Speaker 2: night for the Warriors on that front later tonight, but
Speaker 2: in this particular show, we're we're talking about the Kings
Speaker 2: and the Sons, who had another dog fight last night
Speaker 2: in the fourth quarter. Kind of an interesting chess match
Speaker 2: down the stretch. As Frank Vogel kind of towed the
Speaker 2: line between Kevin Durant at center versus going big with
Speaker 2: use of Nurkic. Took a little bit of a gamble
Speaker 2: that paid off at the end of the game. We're
Speaker 2: gonna break that game down from the perspective of both teams,
Speaker 2: and then I have a half dozen or so mail
Speaker 2: bag questions from yesterday's show that we'll get to so
Speaker 2: quick show today back later tonight for Warriors Clippers, and
Speaker 2: then I'll probably add another one or two games to
Speaker 2: tonight's instant reaction as well. I'll just take a look
Speaker 2: at the schedule tonight. We'll kind of play by ear
Speaker 2: based on how the games go down. All right, before
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Speaker 2: as well as film threads. That I do from time
Speaker 2: to time in the mornings, and last night leaves keep dropping.
Speaker 2: Mail back questions probably hit him a couple more times
Speaker 2: over the course of the All Star break in the.
Speaker 1: End of this week. All right, let's talk some basketball.
Speaker 2: So a really interesting fourth quarter between the Kings and
Speaker 2: the Suns last night. So the Suns came out in
Speaker 2: a KD at center look. Now, remember that was a
Speaker 2: look we didn't see much at all in the beginning
Speaker 2: part of the season. And it was a King's matchup.
Speaker 2: Was it like two weeks ago, nowt three weeks ago?
Speaker 2: I can't remember how long ago it was, but it
Speaker 2: was a King's matchup a while back where the Suns
Speaker 2: were down big late that kind of caused them to
Speaker 2: lean into KD at center for the first time, saw
Speaker 2: a big positive result. Now it's become something that they've
Speaker 2: used periodically ever since. And so at the start of
Speaker 2: the fourth quarter was a KD at center look. And
Speaker 2: specifically what Sacramento was doing which was causing them a
Speaker 2: a lot of problems for the King's defense was they
Speaker 2: kept putting two on the ball, specifically with Kevin Durant.
Speaker 2: So whether it was an ISO at the top the
Speaker 2: key or a ball screen. They were double teaming KD.
Speaker 2: And then from there the Kings or the Sons were
Speaker 2: running really efficient four on threes out of it and
Speaker 2: getting really high quality shots. Even a couple of opportunities
Speaker 2: where the ball worked its way back to Kevin Durant
Speaker 2: got a wide open catch and shoot three at the
Speaker 2: top of the key out of one of those double teams.
Speaker 2: There's another blitz where the ball got back to him
Speaker 2: on the right wing and he kind of pumped, faked,
Speaker 2: ripped it through the right rose up for a pull
Speaker 2: up fifteen footer. KD was like seven to eleven on
Speaker 2: pull up two point shots in this game. He was
Speaker 2: just completely locked in. Had a big one at the
Speaker 2: end of the shot clock there in the second half
Speaker 2: as well, where was kind of a bailout possession where
Speaker 2: he got into the middle.
Speaker 1: Of the lank.
Speaker 2: KD was just unbelievable in this particular game, but he
Speaker 2: was picking them apart just by drawing a second defender
Speaker 2: to the ball and playing four on three out of it,
Speaker 2: and they quickly went up by ten points. Pretty ugly
Speaker 2: stretch of King's defense too, which we'll talk about here
Speaker 2: later on. But the Kings do come back and take
Speaker 2: the lead. They started not overreacting to the role man
Speaker 2: in the mid range of the those blitzing situations. So again,
Speaker 2: like a lot of times, what's happening is the the
Speaker 2: Sons are looking to bring maybe someone a like a
Speaker 2: like a Josha Kogi into the ball screen. Right They're
Speaker 2: trying to bring a lesser offensive player into the ball
Speaker 2: screen because of the fact that he's usually being guarded
Speaker 2: by the worst defensive player and so usually whoever's got
Speaker 2: the ball is trying to pick on the worst defensive
Speaker 2: player on the floor by bringing him up into the
Speaker 2: ball screen. So the Kings are countering that by doubling,
Speaker 2: and what's happening is an inferior offensive player is getting
Speaker 2: the ball right there in the middle of the floor,
Speaker 2: and so when they were reacting to that, that guy's
Speaker 2: able to make a kickout pass, and now the higher
Speaker 2: level offensive players are working with an advantage. And one
Speaker 2: of the things that kind of turned Sacramento's fortunes there
Speaker 2: in the middle of the fourth quarter was they finally
Speaker 2: started just not overreacting to that role man and kind
Speaker 2: of letting him get downhill. And it's like got to
Speaker 2: take that little floater in the lane, right, you got
Speaker 2: to take that little mide range jump shot or a
Speaker 2: pack the basket and actually get into the rim protector
Speaker 2: so that you can drop it off to the guy
Speaker 2: that's in the dunker spot or whatever it may be.
Speaker 2: Having that sort of like a willingness to score out
Speaker 2: of the short role is vitally important. And when that
Speaker 2: guy's not willing to score, that's when things can kind
Speaker 2: of fall apart. So it swings back towards Sacramento's way.
Speaker 2: They start to get some stops and on the other
Speaker 2: end of the floor, Sa Bonus comes back into the game.
Speaker 2: So Bonus was not in the game at the early
Speaker 2: portion of the fourth quarter, and Sabonis started bullying mismatches
Speaker 2: down low at the basket, getting easy shots there. Sabonis
Speaker 2: was unbelievable in this game at thirty five points, eighteen rebounds,
Speaker 2: and twelve assists, had nine offensive rebounds, and the Kings
Speaker 2: actually won his minutes in this game by four points.
Speaker 2: Just an unbelievable Sabonis game. But at this down the stretch,
Speaker 2: this is where the Frank Vogel gamble came in. So
Speaker 2: you remember in the game that they played whatever it was.
Speaker 2: Three weeks ago or so, when Kadie went to center,
Speaker 2: Sabonis wasn't as active attacking mismatches. That was one of
Speaker 2: the biggest reasons why the Kings kind of lost control
Speaker 2: of that game. Well, in the middle of this fourth quarter,
Speaker 2: Sabonis was much more active there, and so Frank Vogel
Speaker 2: has a decision to make. He can either go back
Speaker 2: big and you know, deal with some of the offensive
Speaker 2: limitations of that as well as the defensive limitations of that,
Speaker 2: because Nurkics can struggle as a pick and roll defender
Speaker 2: from times from time to time, but be more physically
Speaker 2: matched up with Sabonis both in the post and on
Speaker 2: the glass. Or he can stay small and hope that
Speaker 2: the scoring kind of makes up for it. And so
Speaker 2: the call that he goes with that he ends up
Speaker 2: bringing Nurkic back into the game and ended up paying
Speaker 2: off in a big way because he made three huge
Speaker 2: defensive plays down the stretch of this game. There's a
Speaker 2: ball screen with Deer and Fox where a coming down
Speaker 2: the left side of the lane where Fox kind of
Speaker 2: stunted like he was gonna throw past the Sabonis and
Speaker 2: then he tried to sneak a little left, He's hook
Speaker 2: shot and Nurkic knocked the ball away, and when he
Speaker 2: knocked the ball away, there was so little time on
Speaker 2: the shot clock that Harrison Barnes basically had to throw
Speaker 2: up a prayer from like thirty five feet on the
Speaker 2: left wing and he missed it, so that basically generated
Speaker 2: to stop. Then there was another one where Malik Monk
Speaker 2: was in the ball screen and coming down the right
Speaker 2: side of the lane line and Nurkic kind of cut
Speaker 2: him off, and as he was cutting off, he funneled
Speaker 2: him along the baseline. Darren Fox was wide open at
Speaker 2: the top of the key, and Monk tried to whip
Speaker 2: this like one arm pass to Daron Fox at the
Speaker 2: top of the key. Nurkic just grabbed it. Just really
Speaker 2: really good defense containing the basketball and then getting the
Speaker 2: deflection on the kickout pass. And then finally there was
Speaker 2: a breakaway situation, a fast break situation where Nurkic was
Speaker 2: kind of trailing the play and he ended up making
Speaker 2: an extra effort and getting a block at the rim.
Speaker 2: All three of those plays took place with less than
Speaker 2: four minutes left in a one possession game, and it's
Speaker 2: kind of an interesting example of defensive reputation versus reality,
Speaker 2: because like what happens a lot of times is like
Speaker 2: a narrative forms a round a player, and.
Speaker 1: We've just decided that guy's a bad.
Speaker 2: Defensive player, when a lot of times there's a difference
Speaker 2: between playing bad defense and being a bad defensive player.
Speaker 2: And there are gonna be certain matchups that Nurkic is
Speaker 2: really going to struggle against. He struggled a lot in
Speaker 2: this game defensively, and we've seen him get picked apart and.
Speaker 1: Pick and roll.
Speaker 2: That was a specific issue that I'm sure Frank Vogel
Speaker 2: had to weigh when he made that decision to put
Speaker 2: Nurkic into the game. But that doesn't mean that use
Speaker 2: of Nurkic is incapable of making defensive plays. This goes
Speaker 2: across the board around the league, and this is why
Speaker 2: I always talk about how you can craft a coherent
Speaker 2: defense around a player that has some limitations, as long
Speaker 2: as you have defensive personnel on the floor that can
Speaker 2: do some of the bigger, more labor intensive jobs, and
Speaker 2: as long as that player is willing to commit to
Speaker 2: the job that's being asked of him, and if you
Speaker 2: can craft for him a small achievable job, and he
Speaker 2: engages himself in that job, you can get positive defensive production.
Speaker 2: This was a game where Nurkic struggled defensively. There's a
Speaker 2: decision to make about Nurkic as a defensive player, and
Speaker 2: then he literally won the game. He won the game
Speaker 2: making defensive plays. It was a shootout going both ways.
Speaker 2: Devin Booker hit i think three pull up twos down
Speaker 2: the stretch that were massive shots. Kevin Durant hit a
Speaker 2: big pull up two, one of the big things the
Speaker 2: Suns did late as they stopped going to pick and
Speaker 2: roll and they started like hunting ISO opportunities. And then
Speaker 2: Devin Booker also took one in transition, which was a
Speaker 2: good way to prevent that second defender from coming over.
Speaker 2: And there was a play where the Kings did double
Speaker 2: Devin Booker in an ISO and it left Royce O'Neal
Speaker 2: wide open on the left wing, and he ended up
Speaker 2: making the biggest, one of the biggest shots of the
Speaker 2: game there, a three point shot. And that's kind of
Speaker 2: an example like when you double one pass away in
Speaker 2: an ISO situation, it's you can kind of control who
Speaker 2: that guy is that's open and ended up being a
Speaker 2: better shooter. Whereas when you bring a lesser offensive player
Speaker 2: into the ball screen to target a lesser defensive player,
Speaker 2: sometimes the guy that's open ends up being a lesser
Speaker 2: offensive player. So you got to see some more solid
Speaker 2: offensive process from Phoenix down the stretch.
Speaker 1: But on the other end of the floor, like Darren
Speaker 1: Fox was the Lake Monk had a little four point flurry.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of scoring in these three massive
Speaker 2: defensive plays from use of Nurkics essentially ended up being
Speaker 2: the difference in the game. So I just wanted to
Speaker 2: shout out Usip Nurkics because it's just an example of
Speaker 2: that idea. Like one of the beautiful things about basketball
Speaker 2: is no matter what happens to you last time, no
Speaker 2: matter what happens in the last game, no matter what
Speaker 2: happens in the last season, basketball gives you an opportunity
Speaker 2: to redeem yourself. That is the beautiful, the most beautiful
Speaker 2: thing about the game. D'Angelo Russell last year gets absolutely
Speaker 2: utterly humiliated by Bruce Brown for the world to see
Speaker 2: in the Western Conference Finals, to the point where he's
Speaker 2: removed from the rotation for essentially removed from the rotation
Speaker 2: at the end of the series like that, that inspired
Speaker 2: him and he's come back and now he's playing the
Speaker 2: very best basketball of his career, played so damn well
Speaker 2: that all of a sudden, a bunch of Laker trade
Speaker 2: options didn't necessarily make a ton of sense like that.
Speaker 2: To D'Angelo Russell's credit, that's that's taking itage of the
Speaker 2: beautiful opportunities that basketball presents yourself. And that's the thing. Like,
Speaker 2: one of the biggest swing factors for the Suns this
Speaker 2: season is going to be use of Nurkice on the
Speaker 2: defensive end. Will he be able to make enough plays?
Speaker 2: Will they be able to you know, because like look
Speaker 2: at like what Nikola Jokic does for Denver. Just by
Speaker 2: being active with his hands and using his basketball brain
Speaker 2: to kind of perceive things as they're unfolding in front
Speaker 2: of him, he can be an impact defensive player. And
Speaker 2: I thought that was just a really cool example of that.
Speaker 1: Last night.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things about the game of basketball.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about roy O'Neil real quick, big time.
Speaker 2: Down the stretch of this game, he had a big
Speaker 2: steal on somebonis and the post where refronted him and
Speaker 2: knocked the ball away, had a couple other deflections in
Speaker 2: that fourth quarter stretch, hit the biggest three of the
Speaker 2: game there on the left wing. Hit another three in
Speaker 2: the early fourth quarter during the run where the Suns
Speaker 2: went up by ten, where he saw Herder kind of
Speaker 2: like trailing and not playing really good defense, and Kevin
Speaker 2: Rank came up and set like a little brush screen
Speaker 2: and they the Kings botched the switch. He just stepped
Speaker 2: into like a wide open pull up three at the
Speaker 2: top of the key and made it. He had a
Speaker 2: driving drove a close out out of the left corner
Speaker 2: and got a dunk like Roys Soneal was just incredible
Speaker 2: in this particular game. But like one of the things
Speaker 2: that I like about Royce in particular is he's one
Speaker 2: of the best guys in the league at defending with
Speaker 2: a lot of physicality, and he does pick up more
Speaker 2: foul calls than your typical perimeter defender. But there's an
Speaker 2: advantage with physicality because like let's say you get three
Speaker 2: or four fouls called on you in a game, Guys
Speaker 2: like that are actually committing dozens and dozens of fouls
Speaker 2: over the course of the game. But it's a gamesmanship
Speaker 2: thing in the sense that they're good at doing it
Speaker 2: without getting called a good percentage of the time. And
Speaker 2: where that becomes valuable is a lot of times, especially
Speaker 2: with the Sun's perimeter group, they can do some switching
Speaker 2: and Royce has the ability to guarded deeron fox guard
Speaker 2: am Malik Monk. He had some good bald denial possessions
Speaker 2: last night where he's just preventing them from even getting
Speaker 2: their catchp in the spots that they want. That's another
Speaker 2: area where physicality helps. When you're off the ball, the
Speaker 2: rest allow you to use your hands more and so
Speaker 2: you can be handsy and kind of hold a player
Speaker 2: and place off the ball in a way that you
Speaker 2: can't when you're on the ball. Right, but he can
Speaker 2: switch on to bigger, stronger players because he brings so
Speaker 2: much physicality to the position and then just bringing like
Speaker 2: real high hands in ball pressure too. That's so important
Speaker 2: to disrupt those passing angles. I thought he was a
Speaker 2: big time addition for the Suns, and like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's funny. One of the big narratives around the deadline
Speaker 2: is like who's a needle mover? Is this guy a
Speaker 2: needle mover? Like, this guy's not a needle mover. This
Speaker 2: isn't really gonna change their championship aspirations. And a lot
Speaker 2: of times when we take a look at that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff, we zoom in on like just what that
Speaker 2: specific player is good at, and it's like, yeah, like
Speaker 2: roy O'Neil from a talent perspective, isn't some massive influx
Speaker 2: of talent. But when you look at the Suns and
Speaker 2: what they're good at and what they suck at, he
Speaker 2: comes in bringing a specific type of player they did
Speaker 2: not have. They did not have a guy that can
Speaker 2: contend in multiple different defensive ways, whether it's guarding guards,
Speaker 2: ball denial, off the ball, ball pressure, switching onto bigger wings,
Speaker 2: and defending in the post, help defense, deflection situations. Like
Speaker 2: he can help in all these different ways while also
Speaker 2: being a plus offensive player while also being a player
Speaker 2: who's not gonna come with the the the lows that
Speaker 2: you get offensively from a Joshua Kogi, right like that,
Speaker 2: that's the difference, And what ends up happening is we
Speaker 2: so focus on this guy doesn't have a ton of talent,
Speaker 2: But even if you have this much talent, in the
Speaker 2: big picture of the team, if that much talent fits
Speaker 2: perfectly into a need that the team has, it can
Speaker 2: make the entire package that much more, you know, dependable
Speaker 2: on both ends of the floor. And so like I
Speaker 2: think a lot of times we kind of underrate role
Speaker 2: player because we get so wrapped up in the talent.
Speaker 2: And like, to me, Royce O'Neil made the Sons a
Speaker 2: lot better. He's a forced multiplier playing alongside superstars because
Speaker 2: he's so good at the little things. He makes the
Speaker 2: total package that much better. He increases their chance to win,
Speaker 2: the chances to win the title. End of story, you
Speaker 2: have Kevin Durant in the late end of his prime,
Speaker 2: you gotta try to increase your chances. They took a risk,
Speaker 2: and it that kind of risk in my opinion, like
Speaker 2: we play the results too much, and so what ends
Speaker 2: up happening is like if the Sons happened to lose
Speaker 2: at some point along the way, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: it becomes like, oh, well, they wasted an asset, or
Speaker 2: they did this, or they did that, and it's like
Speaker 2: you only get one team out of the thirty teams
Speaker 2: wins the title. It's already a small chance, and like
Speaker 2: I'm never going to criticize a team for pushing their
Speaker 2: chips in and trying to make that happen one of
Speaker 2: their notes. On a note on the Suns, Bradley Beal
Speaker 2: pulled up with of what appears to be a minor
Speaker 2: hamstring injury in the first quarter. Soft tissue stuff has
Speaker 2: always been an issue for both Bradley Beal and Devin Booker,
Speaker 2: and one of the big things that's allowed the Suns
Speaker 2: to kind of get going here in the last month
Speaker 2: and a half has been Bradley Beal being consistently available
Speaker 2: and so good timing in the sense that it's right
Speaker 2: for the All Star break. But hopefully that's not too
Speaker 2: serious of an injury for Bradley Beal and hopefully can
Speaker 2: he can come back before too long so they can
Speaker 2: maintain this momentum on the Kings front. Lots of good
Speaker 2: in this game, Like I talked about earlier, so Bonis
Speaker 2: was an absolute wrecking ball that Phoenix couldn't do anything
Speaker 2: with Daron Fox at thirteen points in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: He's been going to this.
Speaker 2: Like left shoulder fade where he kind of turns his
Speaker 2: back to the basket and kind of backs you down
Speaker 2: and then just spins over that left shoulder into that
Speaker 2: short fade away.
Speaker 1: Hit a couple of those in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 2: I like that kind of new addition to Daron Fox's
Speaker 2: attack in the sense that, like, to me, that's more
Speaker 2: of like a bully ball playoff type of like rock
Speaker 2: fight shot, because you can protect a basketball easier that way.
Speaker 2: He's going to draw smaller, quicker defenders a lot of
Speaker 2: the time, and he can get to a spot closer
Speaker 2: to the rim, and like ten twelve feet from the rim,
Speaker 2: that's just a really high percentage shot for him. So
Speaker 2: I thought that was interesting. Malik Monk was great. He
Speaker 2: had twenty two points. Was really deliberate in the fourth
Speaker 2: quarter about making post feeds to Demonas Sabonis, which like
Speaker 2: so many guards struggle with that and where they want
Speaker 2: to run a ball screen and they want to make
Speaker 2: the kickout pass to the open three or the lob
Speaker 2: pass for the dunk, and it's like sometimes your job
Speaker 2: as the guard is to identify where your advantage is.
Speaker 1: And get the ball there.
Speaker 2: And he just was really deliberate about feeding Sabonis in
Speaker 2: the post, and it was generating offense. It was just
Speaker 2: smart point guard play really during that middle of the
Speaker 2: fourth quarter stretch. He also had a nice little scoring
Speaker 2: flurry over that stretch. He had this ridiculous scoop shot
Speaker 2: over use of Nurkic and had a really sold a
Speaker 2: back door cut really well on Devin Booker just completely
Speaker 2: fooled him and got an easy shot at the rim.
Speaker 2: But every time the Kings lose, it's for the same reason.
Speaker 2: They play shitty defense, sloppy double teams in this game
Speaker 2: without the press, sure that you need to disrupt the pass,
Speaker 2: bad rotations. Bad closeouts is the big one, and this
Speaker 2: has been an issue forever for this team. They allow
Speaker 2: teams to score one point zero nine points per spot
Speaker 2: up possession. That ranks twenty fourth in the NBA. When
Speaker 2: you look at the amount of perimeter speed they have,
Speaker 2: that's just that's embarrassing. For the level of athleticism they
Speaker 2: have on the perimeter, they should be a better close
Speaker 2: out team than they are. They're twenty fifth and defending
Speaker 2: pick and roll they give up one point zero three
Speaker 2: points per possession, and again they have good perimeter personnel
Speaker 2: tons of speed. They're the best defensive rebounding team in
Speaker 2: the league, not just because of the bonus, but because
Speaker 2: they have wings that like to crash, which is so
Speaker 2: important with all the long rebounds that come from miss threes.
Speaker 2: They can be so much better than they are on
Speaker 2: the defensive end of the floor. And it really breaks
Speaker 2: down in the numbers as like their main indicator of success.
Speaker 2: When they give up one hundred and sixteen or more points,
Speaker 2: they are thirteen and seventeen. When they allow one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifteen or fewer, they're seventeen and six. When they
Speaker 2: allow one hundred and ten or fewer, they twelve and three.
Speaker 2: What happened when they beat the Nuggets the other night?
Speaker 2: They shut them down on the offensive end of the floor,
Speaker 2: like that is the primary driving force of their success.
Speaker 2: They're actually not good enough to outscore people, as we've seen,
Speaker 2: when they get into these shootouts, they typically lose. And
Speaker 2: that's the thing, like more often than not, they've been
Speaker 2: mediocre this year, and now for more than a month,
Speaker 2: they've been pretty bad. Since January twelfth, the Kings are
Speaker 2: seven and nine. They are tenth. They're the tenth worst
Speaker 2: record in the league over that span. Their thirteenth in offense,
Speaker 2: twenty fourth in defense. Some really lifeless losses in there too.
Speaker 2: They got ran off the floor by the Pistons.
Speaker 1: A week ago.
Speaker 2: And again, some of this is mid season malaise. And
Speaker 2: I always will cut teams a little bit more slack
Speaker 2: in that like December, January, February stretch of the season,
Speaker 2: because you're just gonna have stretches where you like, aren't
Speaker 2: playing as hard as some of the other teams around
Speaker 2: the league, right, Like, that's kind of part of the story.
Speaker 2: And last year the Kings were that team that were
Speaker 2: bringing that youthful exuberance to the table as they were
Speaker 2: trying to make a playoff run. But like, I mean,
Speaker 2: they still have a really high ceiling. They just beat
Speaker 2: up the Nuggets. They have like a half dozen super
Speaker 2: impressive wins this year where they just kick a good
Speaker 2: team's ass. Like I still think it's in there, but
Speaker 2: they really need to, like I've talked about, with a
Speaker 2: lot of these mediocre teams, these last twenty five games
Speaker 2: of the season, you got to put together a stretch
Speaker 2: of playoff quality basketball, otherwise you're gonna run into a
Speaker 2: buzzsaw when you get into the good teams for two
Speaker 2: weeks during the playoffs. All right, guys, let's move on
Speaker 2: to the mailbag first, question. Jason said that the Clippers
Speaker 2: are fourth in his contenders, but I remember him switching
Speaker 2: the Clippers with the Bucks from four to three. You're right,
Speaker 2: I think I just misspoke yesterday. I do have the
Speaker 2: Clippers above the Bucks as of right now. That said,
Speaker 2: like all, my contender list is kind of in flux
Speaker 2: right now, I'm going to be doing about this time
Speaker 2: next week. Actually, sometime Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I'm gonna be
Speaker 2: doing doing a video with Sam Vassini where we dive
Speaker 2: into all the contenders and just kind of rank them
Speaker 2: and go back and forth about that. So whatever the
Speaker 2: contender list may or may not be at this point,
Speaker 2: I plan on just like completely reevaluating it when we
Speaker 2: get to that point and kind of putting teams into
Speaker 2: tiers from there. So looking forward to that next week.
Speaker 2: Next question. I agree with Jason that Rudy Gobert had
Speaker 2: a very impactful game yesterday, but I have seen it
Speaker 2: far too often come playoff time, Tyler will make him
Speaker 2: functionally unplayable in defensive settings. I think last night was
Speaker 2: just a one off. The Clippers will still beat Minnesota
Speaker 2: in a seven game series, so it's hard to say,
Speaker 2: like I do think that last night was or two
Speaker 2: nights ago, I should say, was a little bit of
Speaker 2: like a one of those games where the scoreboard doesn't
Speaker 2: really represent the gap between the two teams. Particularly it
Speaker 2: wasn't the Clippers' best defensive effort, and like the Timberwolves
Speaker 2: have a tendency to fall apart offensively at the end
Speaker 2: of games. And you know, that's one of those things
Speaker 2: where I think if the Clippers bring a different defensive
Speaker 2: level of intensity, they contain the Wolves better, which allows
Speaker 2: them to get out and transition more and avoid the
Speaker 2: set defense more. And like I do think that these
Speaker 2: teams are pretty close and between the two, if I
Speaker 2: had to pick one in a series, I do lean
Speaker 2: slightly towards the Clippers. That said, like the Rudy go
Speaker 2: Beart thing is not the reason why, like the Rudi
Speaker 2: go Bear narrative over the last five years is pretty
Speaker 2: unfair on him, to be honest, and honestly, he's directed
Speaker 2: towards the wrong side of the floor. In Utah, he
Speaker 2: was playing alongside really poor perimeter defense, like Royce O'Neil
Speaker 2: was the one plus defender that he was playing alongside
Speaker 2: most of the time, whether it was Donovan Mitchell or
Speaker 2: Mike Connelly or Boyan mcdonovich like it was a lot
Speaker 2: of and again, Donovan Mitchell's having the best defensive season
Speaker 2: of his career now, but he was not a very
Speaker 2: good defensive player in that stretch of his career. And
Speaker 2: so more often than not, when you're the back line
Speaker 2: guy and the first guy is just getting toasted off
Speaker 2: the dribble, you step up now the defense in rotation,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't really matter if Rudy Gobert is the
Speaker 2: best rim protector or one of the best rim protectors
Speaker 2: in the league, because because he's just not at the
Speaker 2: rim anymore now, he's being pulled off onto some other player,
Speaker 2: especially against a good driving kick team, and that more
Speaker 2: often than not was what caused them problems. Honestly, any
Speaker 2: sort of legitimate criticism towards Rudy Gobert as a playoff
Speaker 2: player centered on the offensive end of the floor, his
Speaker 2: ability to ease a little bit of stonehands he could
Speaker 2: struggle to catch the ball and pick and roll finishing
Speaker 2: around the rim can be an adventure for him from
Speaker 2: time to time against the switching team. He's not the
Speaker 2: kind of guy that can go beat a switch down
Speaker 2: low on the block. Typically that was where a lot
Speaker 2: of his issues would arise in the past. But one
Speaker 2: of the things that he did against the Clippers in
Speaker 2: that game was like, oh, you switched, and now Kauhi
Speaker 2: is on him, and he's kind of, uh, there's a
Speaker 2: baseline drive and he's kind of relocating to where the
Speaker 2: charge circle is. Like, well, this time he caught it
Speaker 2: and he bodied Kawhi and rose up and dunked on it,
Speaker 2: you know. Or another big one for Rudy is just
Speaker 2: being super active on the offensive glass. If you're not
Speaker 2: catching and finishing around the rim, if you're struggling in
Speaker 2: these other ways, if you can generate additional possessions or
Speaker 2: get putbacks, that's worth a ton offensively as well. And like,
Speaker 2: I do think that Rudy's made enough improvement in those
Speaker 2: areas over the last few years that he's at the
Speaker 2: least a very positive player in the playoff setting. I
Speaker 2: don't see Rudy getting played off the floor. That's just
Speaker 2: not an issue that I'm concerned about for the Timberwolves.
Speaker 2: Next question, what would Jason Tatum have to do to
Speaker 2: be the number one player on a championship team other
Speaker 2: than pull up three So the big one that I
Speaker 2: always talk about here is the physical imposition on the game.
Speaker 2: And the example that I would use is the difference
Speaker 2: between let's say Jokic versus Embiid, or like a Lebron
Speaker 2: versus a KD. And I mean, again, Katie's an amazing
Speaker 2: playoff players. I don't want to undercut that, but Lebron's
Speaker 2: been a better playoff player than him in his career right,
Speaker 2: and like Embiid's incredible player, but Jokic's clearly been a
Speaker 2: better playoff player than him. And like the thing is
Speaker 2: is if you really dig into it, like Embiid's got
Speaker 2: more high level isolation, crazy foot work from the mid
Speaker 2: range and in face up situations like that jab step
Speaker 2: jumper is nasty, and he's got all of this high
Speaker 2: level stuff from the perimeter, and same goes for Kevin Durant.
Speaker 2: But when you get into these super physical playoff environments,
Speaker 2: when you're fatigued, and the defensive intensity goes up a
Speaker 2: level not just for the opponent but for you as well,
Speaker 2: And now your legs are more tired than you used
Speaker 2: to be. Now your rhythm and timing and all your
Speaker 2: shots is different. Like when all that stuff changes a
Speaker 2: lot of times. The more perimeter oriented stuff can kind
Speaker 2: of decrease in effectiveness, and so the guys that have
Speaker 2: the ability to actually be the person that's better at
Speaker 2: absorbing those blows and so they fatigue less and they're
Speaker 2: good at generating higher quality shots around the rim, or
Speaker 2: maybe they get to the rim and generate really high
Speaker 2: quality shots from the perimeter. That sort of thing just
Speaker 2: translates better, especially when he gets the later rounds of
Speaker 2: the postseason.
Speaker 1: And like that to.
Speaker 2: Me is why you know, like Nikole Jokic has been
Speaker 2: a more impactful playoff player. Embiid gets there, the jump
Speaker 2: shot stops falling, his effectiveness tanks. Now, obviously injuries have
Speaker 2: played a role there, but that's the basketball stuff that's happening.
Speaker 2: It's the jumper that consistently fails him. Nikole jokicch It's
Speaker 2: like if the jumpers going in great, but he's making
Speaker 2: all these hook shots and floaters and shit, that's shit
Speaker 2: that's right by the basket, and that it just has
Speaker 2: more resiliency as the level of intensity goes up, and
Speaker 2: the same thing goes for Lebron, Like Lebron can just
Speaker 2: thrive and rock fight basketball so on the Tatum front, Like,
Speaker 2: that's what I'm begging for from him. Jason Tatum is
Speaker 2: one of the most gifted athletes that we have in
Speaker 2: the league. Like, just go down the best players in
Speaker 2: the league, Like, is he a more gifted athlete than
Speaker 2: Luka Doncic.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Luca's best attribute his size, And I don't want to
Speaker 2: undercut him as an athlete, but I think Tatum is
Speaker 2: a better athlete if you factor in all of his tools, strength,
Speaker 2: length of vertical athleticism, all that stuff like side to
Speaker 2: side speed, all that stuff, right, Like, is he a
Speaker 2: better athlete than Jimmy Butler?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Is he a better athlete than Paul George? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like now that he has all this.
Speaker 2: Strength, like he's like, he's not as strong as Kawhi,
Speaker 2: And I think I'd probably take Kawhi as an athlete
Speaker 2: over him overall in the playoffs, but he's pretty close
Speaker 2: to that level. He has that capability to be deeply
Speaker 2: impactful in a physical environment. I'm saying that I'd like
Speaker 2: to see him devote a ton of energy and attention
Speaker 2: towards physicality around the basket, because that, to me, is
Speaker 2: going to be what carries him to the title one
Speaker 2: day being the biggest strongest athlete on the floor and
Speaker 2: actually using that to his advantage instead of bailing teams
Speaker 2: out by taking higher difficulty shots. Hey, Jason, could you
Speaker 2: chat about the Spurs and Wemby's ten block triple double.
Speaker 2: So obviously, just by those of you guys who've been
Speaker 2: following the show for a while, you know kind of
Speaker 2: the four the format is, we really zero in on
Speaker 2: the top ten to fifteen teams in the league, and
Speaker 2: so I don't spend a ton of time talking about
Speaker 2: the you know, the Pistons, or the Wizards, you know,
Speaker 2: or or the Charlotte Hornets, you know, And in the
Speaker 2: San Antonio Spurs, it's just I devote my attention towards
Speaker 2: the top teams in the league. And so I haven't
Speaker 2: been following the Spurs super super closely, but I've been
Speaker 2: following them somewhat. And honestly, the biggest thing that's changed
Speaker 2: with Wemby over the course of the last like third
Speaker 2: of the season has been his efficiency is just a
Speaker 2: shot selection has been way better, and you're starting to
Speaker 2: see him basically take a leap right before his eye,
Speaker 2: before our eyes in the NBA. But to put it simply,
Speaker 2: like I think Wenby's a few years away from being
Speaker 2: the best player in the world. That's the type of
Speaker 2: potential that he has. And like we're seeing stuff from
Speaker 2: him that we've just simply never seen before, and like
Speaker 2: he's doing all of this around the worst collection of
Speaker 2: ball handling I've ever seen on an NBA team. I
Speaker 2: like Devin Vessel, he's a good player, but if you
Speaker 2: really take all of the Spurs ball handlers together. That's
Speaker 2: why I keep seeing these clips on Instagram of Wenby
Speaker 2: being frustrated that he's not getting the basketball. It's because
Speaker 2: he's playing alongside a team that really struggles to kind
Speaker 2: of take advantage of what he's great at. And like
Speaker 2: they're a sneaky team to keep an eye on for
Speaker 2: Trey Young this summer. If the Hawks decide to rebuild
Speaker 2: and when they actually put some quality veterans around this
Speaker 2: guy that know how to play, he's going to be
Speaker 2: such an incredible force multiplier for them. I am so
Speaker 2: excited to cover Wenby more closely in the future. But obviously,
Speaker 2: like this show is very heavy on like deep dives
Speaker 2: on the best teams in the league. We cover every
Speaker 2: single playoff game and all the x's and o's like
Speaker 2: we're dived in. We dive into the top of the league, right,
Speaker 2: And so the Spurs I just think, you know, within
Speaker 2: the next couple of years are just going to be
Speaker 2: in that mix, and we'll cover them more closely. So
Speaker 2: I apologize to Spurs Spurs fans that we haven't been
Speaker 2: as intent on covering when Ben Yama's rookie year, But
Speaker 2: I promise the show is going to have a ton
Speaker 2: of whom Minyama on it in the long run. All Right,
Speaker 2: three more questions, then we're out of here. With the
Speaker 2: Warriors having a shot to make the playoffs, now, I
Speaker 2: think that they are the team with the best chance
Speaker 2: to beat the Nuggets. With Jokic having a hard time
Speaker 2: coming up to the screen and how well Stephan Clay
Speaker 2: shoot off screens, I think it will give them open
Speaker 2: looks and open up the middle for Kaminga and.
Speaker 1: Wiggins to have driving lanes.
Speaker 2: So I'm really encouraged by the recent stretch of basketball
Speaker 2: from the Warriors, but I don't necessarily think they have
Speaker 2: a real shot to beat the Nuggets just because the
Speaker 2: Nuggets are, in.
Speaker 1: My opinion, the best team in the league.
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean they don't have a shot, but I
Speaker 2: do want to dive into it a little bit. So
Speaker 2: let's talk about both sides of the four just for
Speaker 2: a second, just kind of a loose, little initial impression
Speaker 2: of the matchup.
Speaker 1: So specifically, the idea of spacing nikolea Jokic out, typically I.
Speaker 2: Would agree with you, and ideally you need to have
Speaker 2: a team that can bring Yokic out to the level
Speaker 2: of the screen while having the amount of off ball
Speaker 2: talent to capitalize for the way that Denver likes to
Speaker 2: load up. Because one of the things that you'll see
Speaker 2: the Nuggets do in a series against the Warriors is
Speaker 2: they'll just defend pick and roll three on twoo. They
Speaker 2: will be like Jonathan Minga shoot all the threes you want,
Speaker 2: Andrew Wiggins shoot all the threes you want, and there
Speaker 2: will be plays where they execute their you know, uh, one, two,
Speaker 2: three on that four on three really fast and you
Speaker 2: get a backdoor lob for Kaminga along the baseline or
Speaker 2: maybe a slot cut from Wiggins along the wing. But
Speaker 2: Jonathan Aminga, you know, he shot really really well during
Speaker 2: the hot streak. He's two for ten on his last
Speaker 2: ten threes. And he's only thirty two percent on the season.
Speaker 2: The playoff game plan for Kmingo will be a short
Speaker 2: close out. The playoff game plan for Kaminga will be
Speaker 2: you can play off this guy to help elsewhere. And
Speaker 2: the same goes for Andrew Wiggins. And so while Steph
Speaker 2: is uniquely equipped to stretch Denver's defense out at the
Speaker 2: point of attack, they are not super well equipped on
Speaker 2: the weak side to take advantage of it. And so
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean they can't do it, but like they
Speaker 2: would just have to have their timing down so good
Speaker 2: on those back door cuts, and Aaron Gordon's gonna be
Speaker 2: just camping under the basket basically that entire series.
Speaker 1: It's just gonna be.
Speaker 2: It'll be a little bit of a tougher matchup because
Speaker 2: Denver's defense is built to withstand teams that are very
Speaker 2: top heavy with talent, which the Warriors definitely qualify as.
Speaker 2: On the other end of the floor, I really like
Speaker 2: the matchup for the Warriors. They have the unique ability
Speaker 2: to put a big, strong wing and Andrew Wiggins on
Speaker 2: Jamal Murray while having one of the best options in
Speaker 2: the league to guarding Nicole Jokic and Draymond Green, and
Speaker 2: so they have as good a chance as anybody in
Speaker 2: the league to you know, with the Nuggets, it's always
Speaker 2: this delicate balance between guarding the Jokich Murray actions two
Speaker 2: on two versus sending an additional body where guys like
Speaker 2: Kcper and Gordon and Michael Porter Junior can kill you,
Speaker 2: right and like to me, you know, it's kind of
Speaker 2: like the one time we saw the Nuggets lose in
Speaker 2: the last two rounds last year was in the NBA
Speaker 2: Finals Game two against the Heat. What happened in that
Speaker 2: series In that game, it was Jimmy Butler and Bam
Speaker 2: just did an unbelievable job guarding the Jokich Murray two
Speaker 2: man game. And it's like, I think Wiggins and Draymond
Speaker 2: have potential and so to kind of like to uh
Speaker 2: and then backside of athleticism too, just having a Jonathan
Speaker 2: Kaminga on the weak side that can rotate around, that's
Speaker 2: real athleticism there, Like you know, Steph and whether it's
Speaker 2: Brandon Pazanski or Clay at the two, they have the
Speaker 2: ability from an IQ standpoint, to rotate around and they
Speaker 2: can rebound like that teat that lineup's been really gifted defensively,
Speaker 2: so to kind of like put a bow on it,
Speaker 2: like I would still pick the Nuggets. They deserve to
Speaker 2: be the favorites in that matchup there to the defending champions.
Speaker 2: I think they're the best team in the league this
Speaker 2: year by a reasonable margin. But yeah, of course the
Speaker 2: Warriors have a chance. It would just come down to
Speaker 2: I think defensively they have as good a chance as
Speaker 2: anybody to slow down the Nuggets just because some of
Speaker 2: their higher end personnel. But on the other end of
Speaker 2: the floor is gonna be the big one. It's will
Speaker 2: they be able to load up on Steph and Will
Speaker 2: Andrew Wiggins and Jonathan Kaminga in particular, be able to
Speaker 2: consistently cause problems for them. And honestly, matchups are a
Speaker 2: big one too, because one of the things you'll see
Speaker 2: is like, who's Aaron Gordon's gonna go? So, Aaron, one
Speaker 2: of the things that the Warriors really like to do
Speaker 2: is to attack post up mismatches to begin possessions with
Speaker 2: Wiggins and Cominga in particular. So let's say, you know, uh,
Speaker 2: Mike Malone goes, We're gonna put Aaron Gordon on Johnathan
Speaker 2: kaminga because he's been one of the best young post
Speaker 2: players in the league this year. We're gonna take him away, Well,
Speaker 2: chances are you're gonna end up with a lot of
Speaker 2: possessions where Andrew Wiggins is being guarded by someone like
Speaker 2: a Michael Porter junior, right, and like that's a matchup
Speaker 2: that he can take advantage of. He's got a speed
Speaker 2: and athleticism advantage on him, Like Michael Porter Junior doesn't
Speaker 2: move super well laterally, and so maybe you can get
Speaker 2: Andrew Wiggins with some quick slot ISOs where he just
Speaker 2: rips through the right and just uses his athleticism to
Speaker 2: beat Michael Porter Junior. Like every time we get into
Speaker 2: these playoff matchups, there's always every team brings different advantages
Speaker 2: to the table, and you kind of lay him out
Speaker 2: and you start to look at him, and I definitely
Speaker 2: think the Warriors have some tools in their toolkit that
Speaker 2: can give Denver issues. But I do think that Denver's
Speaker 2: defense is set up in a way to cause Golden
Speaker 2: State some problems. But same goes on the other end
Speaker 2: of the floor. I just think the Nuggets are a
Speaker 2: better basketball team overall and they deserve the like kind
Speaker 2: of that initial confidence. If that makes sense. All right,
Speaker 2: two more questions. We're out of here, had Jason Warriors
Speaker 2: fan here. Klay Thompson did an interview with Logan Murdoch
Speaker 2: on Monday where he said that he is open to
Speaker 2: taking a reduced role following a mold of how Reggie
Speaker 2: Miller and Ray Allen contributed it in their later years.
Speaker 2: What do you think that means for his game and
Speaker 2: how do you think that affects lineup's play style and
Speaker 2: overall strategy for Golden State. Enjoy the show. A few
Speaker 2: people break it down like you do. Keep up the
Speaker 2: great work. Thank you for the kind words. I really
Speaker 2: appreciate it. I was never worried about this with Klay Thompson.
Speaker 2: The thing that I always talk about this when I'm
Speaker 2: comparing some of the top players in the league. But
Speaker 2: to me, there's a big difference between like loving basketball
Speaker 2: and hating losing, and generally speaking, the teams that are
Speaker 2: truly great they hate losing more than anything. It's like
Speaker 2: a difference. It's like there's a love of the game
Speaker 2: and then there's like overarching competitiveness, and there's a competitiveness
Speaker 2: that the Warriors group has that I think is directly
Speaker 2: responsible for a lot of their success over the years.
Speaker 2: Like these guys are just psychopath competitors. Klay Thompson is
Speaker 2: definitely one of those guys. This guy you can just
Speaker 2: tell by watching him emotionally after every win and loss,
Speaker 2: Like everything for this guy hinges on winning basketball games.
Speaker 2: And so there obviously was going to be a little
Speaker 2: bit of a transition as Clay came to acceptance with
Speaker 2: his kind of decline over the last few years. And
Speaker 2: I mean he himself has said it, like, dude, I'm
Speaker 2: thirty five. I think he's thirty five, that's if I
Speaker 2: got his age right. But he's like, dude, I'm thirty five.
Speaker 1: Host Achilles post acl like, like he's very aware of
Speaker 1: his own decline.
Speaker 2: He understands and beyond that, like, I never had a
Speaker 2: doubt that he'd be the type of guy that would
Speaker 2: do whatever it takes to help the team win, whether
Speaker 2: that's in the short term. You know, don't be surprised
Speaker 2: if in a big playoff moment, if Brandon pit Ziemski
Speaker 2: gets to close games over Clay taking a discount in
Speaker 2: the offseason to stay on the roster for the final
Speaker 2: years of his career. In a smaller role rather than
Speaker 2: chasing money elsewhere. Like, I just think Clay's the kind
Speaker 2: of guy that'll do that first team because all he
Speaker 2: cares about is winning. All right, last question, does it
Speaker 2: feel like this year is more wide open than most
Speaker 2: to win the championship? Even though Denver is the clear
Speaker 2: front runner, They don't feel unbeatable to me. Would love
Speaker 2: to know your thoughts. Love the show, best in the business.
Speaker 2: Once again, thank you for the kind words and for
Speaker 2: the support. I agree, I don't think Denver's unbeatable. I
Speaker 2: do think they're a clearly discernible margin above everybody else,
Speaker 2: but I don't think it's a particularly large margin. To me,
Speaker 2: it feels pretty similar to last year in the sense
Speaker 2: that there's like six or seven teams that have a
Speaker 2: real chance, and then there's another like three or four
Speaker 2: that have punchers chances. But in situations like that, that
Speaker 2: is where I tend to lean on some of the
Speaker 2: more experienced teams, right, and like Denver to me, like
Speaker 2: if they end up in a series with a team
Speaker 2: that doesn't really know who they are yet, whether it's
Speaker 2: like a Western Conference finals matchup with a Minnesota or
Speaker 2: an Oklahoma city, for instance, right, like those that to
Speaker 2: me is an example where like in a series like that,
Speaker 2: just having been there before matters a ton, Like being
Speaker 2: in those wars matters a ton, And like a lot
Speaker 2: of times, like we gloss over the fact that, like
Speaker 2: Denver won easily last year, but they've had their struggles.
Speaker 1: They lost two years.
Speaker 2: In a row, you know, with yokicch at the helm,
Speaker 2: with guys out of the lineup. You know, like Aaron
Speaker 2: Gordon was still playing during those those games, right, Like,
Speaker 2: It's not like they were It's not like it was
Speaker 2: just Yo kitchen four bumps, right, Like, those guys were
Speaker 2: still getting reps. Going back to twenty twenty trailing three
Speaker 2: to one in the Clipper series and coming back to
Speaker 2: win losing to the Lakers in the Western Conference Finals. Like,
Speaker 2: these Nuggets have been in battles, man, They've been in
Speaker 2: battles like they are tested. This is a group that
Speaker 2: has been together a long time, and so to me,
Speaker 2: that is their their kind of differentiator. But I definitely
Speaker 2: agree that this is more wide open than most years.
Speaker 2: But it does remind me a lot of last year
Speaker 2: in the sense that it feels like there's a hefty,
Speaker 2: like dozen teams that have like a believable chance to
Speaker 2: do it, even if it's somewhat small, but that there's
Speaker 2: this clear, kind of like tier at the top that
Speaker 2: feels closer than everyone else. All right, guys, that is
Speaker 2: all I have for this portion of today's show. I
Speaker 2: will see you guys tonight. After the final buzzer of
Speaker 2: Clippers Warriors, the volume