WEBVTT - Ron Fair 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:04.960 R and B Money. 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:10.320 We are thanks take volatility. 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:16.040 We are the authority on all things R and B. 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:20.479 I'm Jay Valentine and this is the R and B 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:25.639 Money Podcast. You know what, I'm not about to go 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.480 through the whole thing. I'm just gonna say, let's get 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:33.720 it started. This interview right now. It's gonna change some things, 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:35.879 and we're about to talk about the way. 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.160 It is in this whole R and B thing. 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:43.720 I have a legend of all legends, one of the 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:47.200 greatest conductors of all time. 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:50.640 Mister Ron fair. 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:54.360 Roan. 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.040 How you doing, man, I'm good now. Thank you for 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:57.360 having me here, man. Thanks. 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.320 Enough's a great honor to be to be affiliated and 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.319 associated and to be here on the couch tonight. 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:05.560 Now, this is great man. 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:10.000 I you know, I've always admired your work, obviously, I'm 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:12.319 sure you saw it on the show like I And 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:13.800 I'm not one of those people. I'm not one of 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.880 these people like yeah, yeah, I really respect it. I 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.720 just won't speak on it. But if I got respect 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:22.760 for somebody and I and I you know, have admiration 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:24.520 for their work, I'm going to say that. 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:26.480 Thank you for saying that, Like I mean for me 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.480 to be here tonight and to talk through some of 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.240 the highlights of my career. It's I really didn't want 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:33.800 to make it like I did this and I did that, 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.479 and and you know, me, me, me and the floss. 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:37.760 So that's not what I'm here for. For me. 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:41.480 This is like therapy and it's a chance to in 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.520 some respects, to tell tell the stories and honor the 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.600 people that put me in the position and relive a 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:51.360 little bit of it. Yeah, and heal because because they're 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.280 you know, through the through the forty five years of 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:57.960 my major label career and the ups and downs of 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.320 showbiz that come with it. In the bitch slashing that 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.520 the universe can throw at you, you know, in between 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:05.800 the highs and the great lows, there's the story that 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.320 I wanted to tell. So I'm I'm hoping that we can, 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.320 you know, go a little deeper other than you know, 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.200 when I did this record with the baseline did I 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:15.520 don't think people give a shit. 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:19.280 What they do. I will say they do, but you know, 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.040 let's let's start. Let's start from the beginning. 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:23.200 Man. I know you from La. 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.560 I'm around La born and raised, and I came from 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:28.920 a kind of a theatrical family where you know, my 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.040 father was an opera singer, my mother was a pianist. 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.880 I there's something that would probably be the unknown that 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:40.440 was called the Yiddish theater, which was the a theatrical tradition, 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:44.120 like an entire thing with playwrights and shows and musicals 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.680 that existed in the Eastern European Jewish community. That was 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.280 basically the Jews from the Holocaust that were all wiped out. 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.320 So they had a they had a theater and literature 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.080 and and and in some in some respects movies and 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.880 radio and and that was my grandparents. So we are 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:02.320 we were a showbiz family. 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:03.880 Are the beginning The first. 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:05.679 Iteration of it was in a foreign language that isn't 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.520 spoken anymore on the planet, which is called Yiddish. But 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.200 some of the great expressions that we still have in English, 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.760 like schmuck and putts, yeah, sugar na, those are those 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.240 are all Yiddish words that have lasted the test of time. 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.480 But not to dwell on that, I will, I'd like 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.880 to go if it's okay to like, like, why am 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.280 I here? Like what was the real beginning point? So 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.120 I was, you know, I was a wedding singer. I 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.880 was a musician. I was a doing jingles, I was scrambling. 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:32.160 You were Adam Sandley. 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.520 Yeah, I was real in real life, like these poor 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.080 people who who got married to me singing God God 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:42.320 bless them. But like the very first uh, I always 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:44.280 wanted to be a record producer, and I was looking 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.720 at record producers who were also label executives at the 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:49.520 same time. And there was a tradition of them, like 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.520 people like r If Martin or Jerry Wexler or or 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.720 Ted Templeman or Lenny Waronker, like there were guys who 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:58.520 were label executives and producers. And I thought, that's that's 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.000 where I want to go. And I I could engineer 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:02.320 a little bit, and I could play the piano a 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:04.960 little bit, and I could arrange a little bit. And 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:09.720 I stumbled into a situation in nineteen seventy seven. I'm 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.440 seventy one years old, so nineteen seventy seven to twenty 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.440 two year old me was working at a shitty studio 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:21.040 as a like a gopher and tape op and it 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.160 was called Hollywood Spectrum, and it was nowhere near Hollywood. 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.039 It was just this little shitty studio and people would 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.680 rent the studio for twenty dollars an hour. One of 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.000 the clients of and I would engineer and it was like, 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.200 you know, it was like an eight track studio and 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:39.000 we had primitive, rudimentary microphones and it was very, very, 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:40.880 very basic. But I learned how to engineer and make 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.080 things sound good. And one of those early clients was 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.120 a young film composer by the name of Bill Conti, 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.320 and so we did a session like some little movie 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.520 score thing whatever, and he took a liking to me, 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:55.919 and he like brought me home for dinner and we 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.520 started listening to jazz records. And I was very very 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.800 much a jazz jazz at this point, trying to play 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:06.640 jazz fusion and I could think unlimited, but my hands 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:10.360 as a pianist were very limited, so the jazz was 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.800 kind of off the table. If you can't play like 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.280 Bill Evans or Oscar Peterson, don't bother you know what 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.159 I mean. It was so the jazz thing, it was 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.080 like it was my passion and the harmonics of jazz 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.760 and the nutrition that comes from those those subdivisions of 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.040 those chords. That was where I was musically. So Bill 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.640 contienters my life and he says, to you know, Hey, 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:33.480 I've got I want you to come with me on 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.520 some of these movie score gigs. I have come over 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.400 to my house on Wednesday and we'll go over the score. 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:41.520 And on Thursday at three o'clock we're going. 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.080 To go record this movie score. Is like, so I 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.679 go over on Wednesday. It's like, okay, bar forty five, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.720 turn the harp mic on. Make sure the engineer turns 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:50.719 the harp mic on because the harp is next to 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:52.560 the trumpets and the trumpets are going to leak onto 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.880 the harp. And so the session was on the Thursday 0:05:56.240 --> 0:06:02.360 at three o'clock in Hollywood, and it was Rocky. It 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:06.560 was it was the original score of Rocky with Stallone 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.719 and the director John Ablson and everybody in the room, 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.239 and it was gonna fly now and. 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.560 Bah blah blah blah blah blah blah Smith from Rocky. 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:21.080 I was bro I was in the room for the 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:25.560 entire recording, every single note that was recorded. I was 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.280 standing next to Bill Conty in the room with the orchestra. Now, 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.200 none of us knew, and I was the assistant. Yeah, 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.360 none of us knew, including Bill, who were still we're 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.760 still friends to this day. He is he is my mentor, 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.240 and he is my lighthouse and my brother and my 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.840 father and my everything and a burning jazz piano player. 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:49.039 And literally nobody knew that Rocky and Stallone were going 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.360 to take over the world and that it was going 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:55.880 to change civilization, and that that music would to this day, 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.560 fifty years later, would have this enduring quality in this 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.000 when he ran up the steps, yeah went the distance 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.159 like people screaming in the theaters, and you know the 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:07.120 whole thing that happened. 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:07.680 And then the. 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:12.200 Instrumental of Gonna Fly Now with the vocals on the hook. 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:13.200 Who's singing it? 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.720 It's it was Bill's wife at the time, Shelby uh 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:21.760 dieta little Nelson Pigford, probably Salon's brother. 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.080 It was like a little background group like in the boot. Yeah, 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.960 you guys are here stronger. It was like like, wasn't 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:30.320 high budget shiit? 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:35.760 So so the record, the single comes out and the 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:37.920 origin from the from the and then the whole thing 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:42.320 was done, recorded, mixed, leader finished in three hours. It 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.960 was a movie score date, and we did the cue 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.120 of Gonna Fly Now for the picture can Bill conducting 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.040 to the picture, and then we did the record version. 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.960 The longer version. So the longer version comes out on 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.000 United Artists. It's is forty five and the ship goes 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:03.320 to number one, and every marching band on the planet 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:05.960 plays that song today. We have a lot to talk 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:07.800 about tonight, but just starting at the beginning. 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.200 So this is like your first I'm twenty two years 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.120 old into the music business period. 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:13.480 Well you know, I mean from I. 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.600 Like literally wedding singer Jingles. Yeah, like it was a 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.080 movie score that was like I'd done a lot of 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:20.560 stuff with Bill. I was around for a lot of 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:22.760 his stuff. Yeah, he you know, it was like a gig, 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.440 like twenty bucks an hour, and you know, like, hey, Bill, 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.320 you need me, If you need your briefcase. 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:28.720 Let me run to the car and get it for you. Yeah, 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:29.600 you do. 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.200 So, so time passes, a little bit of time passes. 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:37.200 This whole thing blows up. Bill is recognized, as you know, 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.240 he went on to conduct the Academy Awards seventeen years 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.440 won the Oscar not for Rocky he was nominated, but 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.240 he won it for the next year for the right stuff. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.040 But anyway, so Bill shows up at my studio. Now 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:52.320 I'm trying to be a jazz fusion artist and maybe 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.160 I'll send you some of the pictures. But and I 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.320 have a band and we're all like fucking stoned guys 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:03.200 pretending to be Chick Korea but suck. And Bill shows 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.080 up at the studio. It was called El Dorado. It's 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.640 at the parking lot now across from Capitol. It's from 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:11.480 the Capitol Tower. There was a building there with a 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:15.480 studio that's been demolished. He shows up with this thing 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.040 and he rips off the brown paper and he hands 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.760 me my first gold album for Rocky with my name 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.280 on it, a gold album, in front of my friends, 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.040 and he says, you got a minute, And he pulls 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:33.480 me aside and says, Ron, you're a half ass recording engineer. 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.640 You're a half ass arranger. You're less than a half 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:41.000 ass piano player. And this is why he's handing me 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:42.959 the gold record. But if you put it all together, 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:48.560 you're a producer. Wow, that's what you need to do. 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.320 Stop doing everything yourself and. 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:57.559 Get the people delegated. Yeah yeah, yeah, And I love this. 0:09:57.600 --> 0:09:59.760 Guy, and I instead of being insulted, you know, you're 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.600 a half fast engineer, you're a half assed piano plet 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:07.240 you know, I realize, Oh, this is that moment and 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.240 I took that gold album. So at age twenty two, 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:15.440 with the gold album for Rocky, it gave me something 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:19.440 in my soul that allowed me to walk taller. And then, 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.400 wanting to be a producer, I cold, of course couldn't 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:24.679 get a job. I had no track record. All I 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.959 did is bullshit demos and failure tapes of my friends 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:33.320 that I recorded in that stupid studio. So I thought, hmm, 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.920 I'm really good at talking, I'm good with words, and 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.040 I look good in a suit. I should be a 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.280 record executive and then I'll hire myself to produce the records. 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.520 Oh this is great, yes, yes, So that was my plan. 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.160 So I went to Music Connection. 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:50.880 I started doing publishing demos. 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.440 There was a guy named Danny Strick who was a 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.560 young publishing executive and happened to be United Artists Music. 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:57.800 It's like, hey, wrong, come over here and do with 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.440 the demos. So I started doing publishing demos. And in 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.160 those days, a publishing demo was not something with a 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.520 sequencer and a laptop and a beat and you know, 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:06.600 a top line. 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:06.920 It was. 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.040 It was a band and a real singer. It was 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.920 all live and they had a little studio, and so 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.400 I started producing these demos and little by little, everything 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.439 I was producing was getting covered by all the artists 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.360 of the day, and I was starting to get a 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.960 track record. So I went to this local paper that 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.280 we still have today called Music Connection, and I said, 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.640 I'd like to write an article on the anatomy of 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.120 a song demo, and I will tell everybody what a 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.520 song demo should be because I've just done this and 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:35.839 this and this and this song gud cut and this 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.720 song gut cut. And they said, we love that idea, 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.199 and we'll pay you for the article twenty five dollars. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.439 I said great. So I went around and I interviewed 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:48.560 A and R people said Hey, I'm Ron Fair, I'm 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.199 a correspondent for Music Connection, and i'd like to interview it. 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.080 You know, all the people in LA were like, sure, 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:58.240 I'll do an interview. And from that I met a 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:02.240 guy whose name was Barry Lander. He was at RCA 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:03.839 and he was an an R guy and I kind 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.600 of knew him, and he gave me the opportunity to 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:11.160 become an an R executive in nineteen eighty one at 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:15.160 RCA Records on Hollywood on Sunset Boulevard, and that was 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.600 the beginning of a forty five year NonStop ride through 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:23.800 the major labels that ended in my last position, which 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.280 was creative head of Virgin Records. But I made it 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:27.760 all the way to president of A and M and 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.520 chairman of Geffen and literally four and a half decades. 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.600 And during that time, that's when I ran the table 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.280 and started to hire myself to produce records. 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:42.559 So let's let's talk about some of those records, because well, 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.120 now I'm getting to the beginning, okay, okay, so let 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:46.360 me get to the beginning, all right. 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:51.840 So I got fired from RCA. I've been fired five times, 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.679 Like I have that distinction, you know, and I and 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.480 I am. I'm cool with it because because I was 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:01.719 a very strong flavor and my advocacy for artists and 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.440 my temperament was such that you either like a lot 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:09.680 of people disliked me because of my intensity. But I 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.400 was always for the music and always for the artists, 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.560 and always seeing through the artist's eyes and fearless and 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.520 not realizing like, oh shit, I'm gonna get my ass 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:20.880 kicked out of here because I'm just too strong, Like 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:22.760 I didn't know how to tone it down. 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:24.480 And I wasn't about to you were never scared to 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:24.920 be fired. 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.199 I never added it up until I started getting fired consistently. 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.160 So the first how'd the first firing feel? 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.040 The first firing was interesting because because that particular job 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.120 at RCA, they had already fired my boss four times. 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:38.280 I had four different bosses. 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.520 So the last boss who fired me, who passed away 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.520 rest in peace, Paul Atkinson. After I gave him mister 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.719 Mister's cassette which had which had broken wings on it, 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.360 he signed it himself and fired me, and that went 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.440 on to become a number one record, So I knew 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.040 I was on it, and I've never said that before. 0:13:58.040 --> 0:13:58.760 Nobody knows that. 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:07.240 But I I got a job at EMI Records, the 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:11.040 guy who original signer of Whitney Houston, Jerry Griffith, who 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.200 interestingly enough, was one of the few African American rayn 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.920 rs that was head of the pop department, and he 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.120 was a great man, a beautiful man, and he gave 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.200 me a job to be an R guy. So I 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:27.760 went from RCAA to EMI, and I stumbled into the 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.960 soundtrack to Pretty Woman, which my buddy was working at 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.080 Disney guy named Mitch Leeb he was working to say, hey, 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:35.600 we we're doing this movie over here. You know, Richard, 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:37.160 Gary's a little bit cold. But there's this new girl, 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.000 Julia Roberts. And if you come down to the studio, like, 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:41.920 we'll go to the set. And I happened to be 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.720 there the day of the bathtub scene, if you remember 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.120 a pretty Woman when she puts her toe into the faucet, 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.280 And he said, let's do a soundtrack album, a fill 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.840 with a bunch of records, and Gary Marshall will put 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:54.800 all the records in the movie. And I said sure 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.160 and signed the movie. And then the thing again, like 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.840 another strike stroke of lightning, goes bananas and becomes a 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:08.240 cultural phenomenon, and the Pretty Woman album sold twenty million copies. 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:10.160 In the guy. 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.680 So, but I'm not a soundtrack guy, remember what I am. 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.480 I'm like half ass engineer, half ass producer, have ass ranger, 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:17.680 wanting to be a jazz guy. 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:19.160 First success on the sound straight. 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.640 But I wasn't really the producer. I was the A 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.800 and R guy who made the deal, and I broke 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.840 at it. So they made me. Now they elevate me. 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:32.400 I'm skipping through history very quickly. But it's okay, okay. 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:34.480 Ron we're going to promote you now to senior vice 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:36.960 president of the A and R for EMI Records, living. 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:37.280 In New York. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.360 And how long does that take from when you first 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:40.960 got the job for you for you to go from 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:42.640 A and R to senior. 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.840 Oh, I forgot Christalist. There was probably five years. I 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:45.840 got Chris List. 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.080 Yeah, I forgot Christmas. I forgot England, I forgot Go West. 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:55.840 There's a lot of stuff in between. Let's go to 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:57.920 em I now because this is what this is why 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.800 I'm here, Okay, Jay, why I'm on R and B 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:05.680 money So pretty mum goes crazy. I'm now the boss 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.200 of A and R, the creative guy and my boss 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:10.240 at the time, another guy passed away Rest in peace. 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.560 Salacatta calls me into a meeting and he says, run, 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:19.600 what do you know about the OJS? I said the OJS? Like, 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:21.680 what do you mean? What do I know about the OJ's? 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.240 Like they're the encyclopedia of every great song and he goes, 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:29.280 they're signed to us, they owe us an album. They 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:33.160 don't their an R guy is gone go to Cleveland 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:38.840 and get involved and meet these guys and deliver their record. 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.320 It's like, really, yeah, head of an r go, go 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:48.120 fucking deal with it. So around this time I had 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:52.280 stumbled on to I keep using that word a Bob 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:56.280 Dylan song that I had to be in my bonnet for. 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.680 This song was called Emotionally Yours and Bob Dylan to 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.280 me like he's my generation blowing in the wind, like 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:06.280 you know, Bob Dylan is like like a religious icon 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:10.400 almost to somebody like me growing up in the Vietnam era, 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:15.159 baby boomer and everything. So I had this idea that 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.760 I wanted Huey Lewis, who was on our label, to 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:23.959 cover the Bob Dylan song. Okay, so I pitch it 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:25.840 to me and my boss went to Fan Francisco. We 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:27.440 go up to see Huey Lewis here we lose in 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.520 the news and they were hot, hot, hot. It's got 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.280 this Bob Dylan song. I really want you to do it. 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.160 And he listens to the song and he goes, wow, 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.560 there's Bob Dylan version. He goes, this is great, Ron, 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:39.439 I love this. I love Bob Dylan. I totally get 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.120 what you're saying. I'm not going to do it. I said, 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.040 wait a minute, what am I missing? You love the song? 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.800 You get it. Huey Lewis covering Bob Dylan. That's a 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:49.800 great thing. He goes, now, Nah, I can't, I can't 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:51.560 do that. I can't. I can't do Bob Dylan. I'm 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:53.600 just not going to do it. And I'm sitting here 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:54.399 and I thought, well. 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.680 What about wait? Wait? What about if? 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:58.200 What about if I get the OJ's to sing the 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.439 backgrounds on it, Huey Lewis and the old J's doing 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.920 Bob Dylan? What could be better than that? Like I'm 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.480 just searching off file, matching file, found oh j is singing 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:07.000 the backgrounds. 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:07.680 I had no idea. 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:09.600 You know, we kind of bullshit? Is that? 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:11.520 So? Yeah? 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.120 Man, great idea. I love the OJ's man, there they're incredible. 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:15.479 Like, I'm not gonna do it. 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:19.159 So like meeting over, We're driving in the rented convertible 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.600 across the Golden Gate Bridge, me and my boss, and 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.080 I said, fuck that asshole, I'm gonna give it to 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.240 the OJS. Fuck Huey Lewis. I'll just do it with 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.320 the OJS. So great, when are you going to Cleveland 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.600 next Thursday? So I send the song in advance and 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:37.359 I've got this idea and that the OJ's are going 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.240 to do this Bob Dylan song. I haven't heard any 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.720 of their stuff, okay, And I send it in advance 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.520 and the time comes on. I get to Cleveland and 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:50.520 they had these guys Terry Stubbs and and Dwayne someone 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:54.479 I can't remember his name, Terry, I can't remember the name. 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:56.159 So it was so long ago, and they were like 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.639 the beat guys from Cleveland who were working on the 0:18:58.680 --> 0:18:59.640 tracks for the OJS. 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.160 So I get there like, hey, I'm out there. Yeah. 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:03.920 The end house goes, Hey, nice to meet you guys. 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:04.479 How y'all doing? 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.200 And everything sounded like bell BIV Devaux okay, and I'm 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.680 introducing myself. It's like, did you guys hear the Dolan tune? 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.000 Talking to Eddie and Walt? Like the third guy in 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.119 the OJS had passed away and it was Eddie LeVert 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:21.679 and Walt Williams, Legends, Gamble and Huff Royalty, Like, doesn't 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.199 get any deeper other than Barry Gordy. Okay, that's the 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.040 level of the OJS. And I knew that. 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:28.440 Guys. 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:30.359 Did you hear the Bob Nolan song? He's like, no, man, 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.000 you gotta listen to our shit. So I listened to 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:33.800 their stuff and it's like, okay, now this is cool. 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.720 This is cool, the great core changes and stuff. He said, 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:37.840 what about the Dolan tune? 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.800 Do you know it? Like? Oh man. 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:45.879 Ah, I said, let me teach you to you. So 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.400 I sit down at the piano and I start playing it. 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:50.359 And you know, like I told you, it was a 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.200 half aassed piano player, but I was pretty good. You 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:56.080 get it off and I'm singing it to them. It's 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:59.760 like Eddie Lavert right here, and it's like getting closer 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.199 and I to feel his like sweat and his breath 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.320 on my ear, and Walter Williams over here and they started. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.600 Walter's like Marvin Gay, He's ridiculous. Yes, these guys are 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.960 fucking drilling me in my ears, right in my fucking head. 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:16.639 And I started getting uncomfortable. 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:17.600 I turned to. 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.280 Eddie and I said, excuse me, but can I get 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:25.639 one square inch to groove in? And they looked at 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.680 each other and they burst into historical laughter. And right 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.840 there when they laughed, because I was I wasn't it 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:35.760 wasn't a joke. I wanted once were an inch to 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:43.000 groove in. Right then and there, my life changed. It 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.879 changed right there, because what started to happen was the 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:49.520 shit that they learned from Gamble and Huff, And nobody 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:51.840 knows this except for Eddie and Walter. I'm still friends 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:55.840 with the ship that they learned from the Royalty of 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.720 the sound of Philadelphia through Gamble and Huff, that they 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:03.120 channeled and they drilled it into my brain and I'm 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.960 I'm a jazz guy. So it's like the harmonic information. 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:09.719 I was already subdividing in my mind, like what are 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.359 these chords? What are these harmonies? What are these branches 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:16.640 of background parts and trees and cascading ad libs? 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:17.800 How do they relate? 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:22.280 So I'm like music theory, vegimatic slicing and dicing this 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:25.960 shit inhaling it and my life changed in front of me. 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:31.440 So this album Emotionally Yours on EMI, which had three 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.040 hits on it had it had Don't Let Me Down, 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:35.679 which was a number one R and B record, It 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:37.359 had Keep On Loving Me, which was a number one 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:39.440 R and B record, and it had Emotionally Yours by 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:43.400 Bob Dylan, which became the biggest Bob Dylan song by 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:45.080 an R and B group in history. 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:46.120 Wow. 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:48.159 And what the album was called Emotionally yours and it 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.679 was the only platinum album that the Ojy's made that 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:52.359 Gamble and. 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:57.359 Huff didn't make Congratulations amazing. 0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:59.520 Okay, And then it went on. It kept going on 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:01.840 and on, and we did. When we toured it, I 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.080 got paranoid because my version of it was. 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:05.600 A gospel version. Yeah yeah. 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.080 And I had Richard T, who passed away like the 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:12.439 greatest gospel piano player ever, Victor Bailey, Omar Hakem. I 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:14.720 had the fucking New York Royalty guys playing on this 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:18.640 track and an orchestra that I arranged. Course I did 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:22.520 my big strings, and the song was it was like 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:26.280 an opera. It was so dramatic, this beautiful piano part 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:29.720 that Richard T played. We recorded it at Marathon Studios 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:33.640 in New York City, and then when we promoted it, 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.520 I got nervous, like this is too gospel, this is 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:39.480 to church, Like I went into this whole gospel thing. 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:43.040 I literally when we did the choir session, I did 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:45.200 it a power station in New York and I told thatdy. 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:47.359 I said, let's make it into an event. And like, 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:50.439 by the way, people were letting me go like I 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:52.680 was just a mad man. So I put a choir 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:55.000 session together that at the time for R and B 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:57.920 people that are watching your show to wat Adgie, Martha Wash, 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:01.480 Evelyn Champagneking, Ray Goodman and Brown. Gerald LeVert conducted the 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:05.480 choir Keith Sweat. All these people showed up for the 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.160 OJS to sing the choir part on the Bob Dylan 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:12.400 song Emotionally Yours, and I filmed it and I got 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:15.560 it on the local news. Then what happened was when 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:19.560 I got paranoid that the gospel version wasn't going to 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:21.600 be a hit, and I had spent so much money 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:25.120 and it was so off my rocker that I told 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:27.520 my boss I got to recut it, like as if 0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:31.400 that wasn't enough, because it's to church and I want 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:32.720 to recut it, and I'm going to get nar to 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.120 Michael Walden who was just coming off. 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.920 Of Whitney Houston, and he cut it. 0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:40.919 So then I released it as a double A side 0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:44.400 and I made two videos. Oh shit, I was half 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:47.000 a million dollars in on Emotionally Yours. But you know 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:51.360 what happened. The shit worked and when they played Arsenio 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:54.639 Hall and sang it, we did it as a piano 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.920 vocal and I played the piano I played. I learned 0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:01.000 Richard T's part and I played it. I played it 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:03.600 every place I could, because it was the wind beneath 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:08.880 my wings. It was everything. And the kapper was when 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:11.840 the Bob Dylan Tribute concert came to Madison Square Garden 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:16.680 and it was Chris Christofferson and Jim Keltner and Duck 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:19.320 Dunn and the original Sam and Daves and all that shit. 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:23.040 The only black act on the Bob Dylan Tribute consert 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:26.359 Madison Square Garden was the OJS. And that night I 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:30.320 had Sissy Houston and Sheryl Crow and I can't even 0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:32.440 remember all the names of the people that were in. 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:34.359 It, and. 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:40.119 Took so much pride in it. But and then of 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:42.480 course the moment passed, and that was emotionally Yours and 0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:46.480 Eddie and Walt were baked into my life as forever 0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:51.520 rabbis of R and B and what I learned musically 0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:53.600 from it. This is great because it's going to lead 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:56.000 into all the rest of the stories. Was what gave 0:24:56.040 --> 0:25:00.920 me the balls and the authority to later on teach 0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:05.280 ojays to Christina aguilera little. Does she know that every 0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:08.200 background part that we made up was Gamble and Hough 0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:11.399 through the OJS, threw me to her and she just 0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:15.480 soaked it up. She had the chops. She's a descendant 0:25:15.840 --> 0:25:20.320 of the OJS through me without knowing it. And then 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:23.919 later on after Christina, who was straight up R and 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:27.960 B singing about on pop records, then it became Keisha Cole, 0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:34.320 Mary J. Blige, Fantasia, Macy Gray and the rest of it. 0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:38.240 And the whole time it was the OJS. 0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:41.600 So tell me this, do you think you could have 0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:45.000 pulled this off if you didn't have your senior position 0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:48.160 as as an executive. 0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:49.800 There's no question I would not have been able to 0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:52.640 pull any of it off. But I was just this mad, 0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:58.920 crazy guy with this energy. And you know, sometimes when 0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:03.880 you walk fast and talk loud, you steamroll through shit, 0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:09.240 and it's called it's also you know, it's passion, it's 0:26:09.520 --> 0:26:11.480 you know what I love, what I do, it's passion, 0:26:11.480 --> 0:26:15.600 it's vision. Later on, as as the story develops, the 0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:18.399 people along the way that that I met with, and 0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:21.280 we'll go through it. But like when I started cutting 0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:23.760 R and B records in my time at Interscope with 0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:29.600 Jimmy Jimmy Iovine, there were two guys in the backfield 0:26:30.119 --> 0:26:34.320 that were coaching me promotion, guys step Johnson. 0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:38.920 And Marsh Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. 0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:40.480 And it was like Ron, like, we don't care if 0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:44.720 you're the white Jewish kid from the valley. Whatever you're 0:26:44.800 --> 0:26:51.760 doing is the ship. Keep doing it, give us these records. 0:26:52.200 --> 0:26:58.040 So step Johnson was the one to say, Ron, black 0:26:58.119 --> 0:27:02.359 music is the major food group of music. R and B, gospel, 0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:07.440 rhythm and blues, rock and roll, and reggae. It's all 0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:11.040 our shit. Those are the food groups, man, that's the nutrition. 0:27:11.640 --> 0:27:14.320 And it was like, you're right, you're right. And it 0:27:14.480 --> 0:27:20.080 was a feast of musicality coming from the tradition that 0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:23.480 because of this freaky thing that happened with the OJS, 0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:26.040 that got stamped into my soul. 0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:26.879 Yeah. 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:31.080 So that later on, like I said, I could hold 0:27:31.119 --> 0:27:33.119 my own in a room with somebody like Mary J. 0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:37.440 Blige fearlessly and you knew what the fuck you were 0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:38.240 doing as an equal. 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:39.480 Yes. Yes. 0:27:40.320 --> 0:27:44.359 So when you see a Christina aguilera big voice Mickey 0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:47.360 Mouse Club, and you see that and you meet her 0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:50.320 and you're like, she's an R and B artist, She's 0:27:50.320 --> 0:27:52.920 an R and B vocal, Right, obviously it's going to 0:27:52.960 --> 0:27:55.040 be pop and we're going to figure out how how 0:27:55.080 --> 0:28:00.040 to make this work. But she wasn't Britney Spears. She 0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:02.159 wasn't that type of pop arty. She was really an 0:28:02.240 --> 0:28:04.679 R and B voice trapped in a pop body. 0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:09.600 So Christina is a God given enormous talent. 0:28:10.960 --> 0:28:11.640 She has. 0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:16.600 Two things. She has an amazing three more than two. 0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:21.640 First of all, amazing chops. So her athletic ability too 0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:28.719 in the singing muscle was Michael Jordan. Her her tone 0:28:28.960 --> 0:28:32.920 that God gave her was a miracle and her ear 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:36.879 yah was the jet fuel the whole time, because you 0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:40.200 could play a chord and she would just go. But 0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:42.920 I knew from the get go with Christina that that, 0:28:43.080 --> 0:28:46.240 you know, we could we could go up. We could 0:28:46.240 --> 0:28:47.520 go up and we could go down. We could do 0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:50.160 a Genina bottle. But she also sang with Andrea Bachelli 0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:53.440 and Herbie Hancock and doctor John. I had her doing 0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:56.760 all this highbrow shit. Yeah, while we were legitimizing that 0:28:56.840 --> 0:29:00.800 in that particular moment pre internet, Yeah, that Christina and 0:29:00.800 --> 0:29:03.200 Brittany who were by the way, It made for great 0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:08.160 magazine copy for sure, but that that Christina was the 0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:13.320 singer and she was like when she sang at last 0:29:13.440 --> 0:29:15.920 on Saturday Night Live the Oda James Tune, I was 0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:20.520 playing the piano. I was always trying to just express myself. 0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:23.720 And as a senior executive, though you know this is 0:29:24.040 --> 0:29:25.240 like that is ron. 0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:27.560 That is not normal, right. 0:29:27.440 --> 0:29:29.240 It's not normal, And I took there was a lot 0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:32.720 of hate and a lot of misunderstanding, and like I said, I. 0:29:32.640 --> 0:29:34.360 Was fired five times. Yeah. 0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:39.800 So that same fire that led me to be so 0:29:39.960 --> 0:29:44.200 passionate about the records, it is the same thing that 0:29:44.320 --> 0:29:47.400 took me down every time. And I think it's important 0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:52.520 that that you're following and what this podcast is all about, 0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:56.000 that they understand that I understand that now and that 0:29:56.480 --> 0:29:58.440 when I go back and talk and think about, like, 0:29:58.480 --> 0:29:59.560 well I could have done this, I could have that, 0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:01.720 like cause my thing always was I had you know, 0:30:01.760 --> 0:30:03.760 I was forty five years in the majors. Was always 0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:06.880 about the music and when that was the thing and 0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:09.120 that was convened, and that led to Vanessa Carlton and 0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:11.640 the Black Eyed Peas and the Pussy gat Dolls and 0:30:11.680 --> 0:30:18.360 you know everything else. It wasn't the the other piece 0:30:18.400 --> 0:30:20.560 of the puzzle, which is so important, which is the 0:30:20.640 --> 0:30:26.280 relationships and power and how music and relationships and power 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:29.560 all conspire and work together in the record industry. I 0:30:29.680 --> 0:30:32.240 was just the dumb ass guy who was fighting for 0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:34.960 the music and fighting for the artist. And so now 0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:36.440 when I look back on it, and I was really 0:30:36.600 --> 0:30:38.640 I was talking to my wife today about thinking about 0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:44.720 to go back and take regret and turn it into 0:30:44.920 --> 0:30:50.760 knowledge and instead of being regrettaful for like I should 0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:52.440 on this show that or whatever, like over the forty 0:30:52.480 --> 0:30:54.920 five years to like, you know what, I fucking learned 0:30:54.960 --> 0:30:57.680 from it, and it's knowledge and it's power. 0:30:58.080 --> 0:30:58.280 Yeah. 0:30:58.480 --> 0:31:02.040 So it keeps me going every time I meet a 0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:06.000 new artist because I'm hopeful it's preposterous. Well we're going 0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:08.280 to start from nothing, nothing and put a song on 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:11.320 TikTok and it's going to change the world. Well, guess what, 0:31:11.400 --> 0:31:13.680 I've been there so many fucking times when that's happened. 0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:16.880 I believe it. And that's what we need in our industry. 0:31:17.360 --> 0:31:18.800 We need hopeful people. 0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:21.600 Right, We have enough people who aren't hopeful because I 0:31:21.680 --> 0:31:24.120 have the conversations with them, not people even that I 0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:26.000 bring on the show, because just my friends in the industry, 0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:29.760 people I've seen do amazing things. Now that I have 0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:32.200 certain conversations. You're like, oh, this can't and that can 0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:35.840 I'm like, well why not? And I've said it many times. 0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:38.840 We make magic, we do. We pull out the sky 0:31:39.560 --> 0:31:45.360 somehow it funnels through us, through your higher powers, and 0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:48.280 now we have this thing that did not exist. 0:31:48.160 --> 0:31:51.080 Correct and like by the way, like right now, like 0:31:51.120 --> 0:31:53.360 something like miracles, like artists that get passed on a 0:31:53.400 --> 0:31:56.200 million times, like you know, there's a great tradition of 0:31:56.240 --> 0:31:59.360 the artists passed on, Choperon, Lady gag Got, Bruno, Mars 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:00.920 fIF Macy Gray. 0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:04.880 All were dropped for sure right on the planet. Yeah. 0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:07.680 And then this miracles like ray that that needs to 0:32:07.680 --> 0:32:10.320 be discovered by Jay Irving, like a guy from not 0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:14.240 even from England who picks the best ask on the planet. 0:32:14.440 --> 0:32:16.800 Yeah, and just what it blows up? 0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:21.800 She is all the way there right, vision right, and 0:32:21.560 --> 0:32:24.760 and having a because this was something that I noticed 0:32:24.800 --> 0:32:28.040 that you a move you made with Christina. You brought 0:32:28.040 --> 0:32:31.280 in Eric Dawkins and I remember him going and I 0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:36.360 remember hearing about her first through him, and I'm like, don't, 0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:40.360 I don't. Okay, you're a grey singer, she's a great singer, 0:32:40.360 --> 0:32:42.240 but how do you get that call? 0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:45.520 You know, what I'm saying. And obviously from my understanding, 0:32:45.600 --> 0:32:46.720 you made that connection. 0:32:47.160 --> 0:32:51.560 So it's I mean to comprehend. How does Eric Dawkins 0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:56.840 fit in that world? Is because I learned the food 0:32:56.920 --> 0:33:01.400 groups from Eddie and Walt. They gave me the roadmap 0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:06.600 to the treasure. And and then because I want to 0:33:07.000 --> 0:33:09.360 delve back into like then with the other I look 0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:11.240 at all the R and B acts that I got 0:33:11.440 --> 0:33:13.000 lucky enough to work with, even though we have mass 0:33:13.000 --> 0:33:18.760 efits as teachers. Keisha Cole at the in her hottest 0:33:18.760 --> 0:33:21.800 period of her life, she had the hot hand. All 0:33:21.840 --> 0:33:24.960 I did was listen to her and and then she 0:33:25.000 --> 0:33:27.200 would bring music in and it would be like, oh, okay, 0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:29.600 I get it. You want to sing this, you want 0:33:29.600 --> 0:33:30.760 to sing that, but the lets't pick this chord and 0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:33.240 lets lea the be Let's polish this up like and 0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:36.440 and then or Mary, like when we redid the breakthrough 0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:39.840 like be without You was there's a whole other version 0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:42.760 of the song before we finished it where there was 0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:47.760 mistakes yeah on it and and uh and she not 0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:50.560 only was I used to think, I used to think 0:33:50.880 --> 0:33:53.160 with regards to Mary, which I do want to talk about. 0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:56.160 She was like my Elvis. She was like the fucking 0:33:56.200 --> 0:34:00.200 Elvis Presley, like this gigantic thing like Elvis, like you know, 0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:04.000 Barbara Judy Elvis. That's how Mary was to me, like 0:34:04.040 --> 0:34:07.560 the biggest of the big. But she was also gracious 0:34:07.600 --> 0:34:10.520 and a great teacher. Because they used to say shit 0:34:10.600 --> 0:34:14.080 to me, like, don't lose the hump. Whatever you're doing there, man, 0:34:14.880 --> 0:34:17.799 skinny too shiny, and it would be like, what do 0:34:17.840 --> 0:34:21.040 you mean? And it was the whole way the underneath 0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:24.640 of an R and B record had to move the bass, 0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:28.520 the bass drum, the beat, and then the other stuff 0:34:28.560 --> 0:34:32.400 on top, the orchestration, the vocals, the harmonic stuff, and 0:34:32.440 --> 0:34:35.480 how those two things lived together. Like I wasn't making 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:38.279 hit records right away. It was by you know, it 0:34:38.320 --> 0:34:41.640 was people like Mary and Keisha. Just by listening to them. 0:34:42.239 --> 0:34:45.680 They taught me what is your first What was your 0:34:45.719 --> 0:34:48.600 first that you considered from a producers standpoint, your first 0:34:48.680 --> 0:34:49.120 hit record? 0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:51.480 The first number one record I produced was the reggae 0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:55.200 version of baby I Love Your Way by Big Mountain, 0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:58.360 and that has a great story to it also, you know, 0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:02.200 going back into the weeds. Big Mountain was a local 0:35:02.239 --> 0:35:05.520 San Bernardino group that had in these days of radio 0:35:05.520 --> 0:35:08.799 stations were programmed by humans, and they were getting they 0:35:08.800 --> 0:35:10.920 were getting overnight airplay on KSFM. 0:35:11.200 --> 0:35:12.920 Weight Yeah, and there's. 0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:15.279 A song called touch My Light and I kept hearing 0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:17.680 it and this guy sounded like Bob Marley and was like, 0:35:17.719 --> 0:35:20.640 this is fucking good. But I was doing the soundtrack 0:35:20.719 --> 0:35:23.239 to Reality Bites and Baby I Love Your Way was 0:35:23.280 --> 0:35:25.360 in the movie, and I thought, I want to do 0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:26.279 a reggae version of this. 0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:30.160 I had all this, you know, like Peter Frampton. Yeah. 0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:34.000 So basically they're like visions or delusions. I'm gonna do 0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:36.000 it reggae and then I'm gonna have a hit. And 0:35:36.080 --> 0:35:38.759 the hot group at the time was a group called 0:35:39.080 --> 0:35:39.720 Inner Circle. 0:35:39.920 --> 0:35:42.759 Yes, bad boys, Bad boys, what you're gonna do? Yeah? 0:35:42.840 --> 0:35:45.399 Right, So it's like I'm gonna go a Circle house 0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:48.680 out in Miami. So I'm gonna go to Intercircle and 0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:51.799 get them to do this song. So their manager at 0:35:51.800 --> 0:35:56.200 the time, Cock blocked that, and I couldn't get to 0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:59.960 Inner Circle. So I thought maybe that group that has 0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:03.360 that overnight fucking song, but they weren't anybody big Mountain. 0:36:03.520 --> 0:36:05.799 All they had was the overnights on KSFM, So I 0:36:05.840 --> 0:36:07.479 brought it to them and said why do we do baby, 0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:09.920 I love your way and it was like yeah, and 0:36:09.960 --> 0:36:11.240 we'll put it in reality bites. 0:36:11.600 --> 0:36:12.000 Yeah. 0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:17.080 So the heartbeat of that record is abe Laboreal Senior 0:36:17.239 --> 0:36:20.439 and junior bass and drums. Abe lea Boreal junior who 0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:24.080 everybody knows as Paul McCartney's drummer. Uh. It was in 0:36:24.160 --> 0:36:28.359 high school and his father, Abraham Li Boreal Senior is 0:36:28.400 --> 0:36:32.880 one of the legendary bass players to ever walk the planet. Okay, 0:36:33.520 --> 0:36:37.000 and you know Quincy Jones level he was on. Abe 0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:41.120 Le Boreal was on everything. So I had the idea 0:36:41.120 --> 0:36:44.240 in my head that shadows grow so long. 0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:44.920 Before my eyes. 0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:47.200 It is all coming from a musical place, that the 0:36:47.280 --> 0:36:50.440 bass would have a like a Mozart counterpoint to it 0:36:50.480 --> 0:36:53.239 the whole time. But bomb ba bump bump bo but 0:36:53.400 --> 0:36:56.680 bomb bob that I would create a counterpoint between the 0:36:56.719 --> 0:36:59.239 reggae bassline and the melody of the song, and that 0:36:59.360 --> 0:37:01.839 was going to be the gl Lou And that's how 0:37:01.840 --> 0:37:05.160 we recorded it. It started with bass, click track and lead 0:37:05.239 --> 0:37:08.400 vocal and the rest I filled in and that became 0:37:08.440 --> 0:37:13.040 my first number one single around the world and it 0:37:13.120 --> 0:37:13.640 was game on. 0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:16.719 But were you at the label as an executive by that. Yeah. 0:37:16.760 --> 0:37:18.840 Yeah, I was at a different label than Big Mountain, 0:37:20.040 --> 0:37:22.040 but you know, I was always running that, running that 0:37:22.080 --> 0:37:22.879 scam man I had. 0:37:22.920 --> 0:37:25.799 I had they weren't your artists, and. 0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:27.880 I borrowed them. Oh shit, I borrowed that. They were 0:37:27.880 --> 0:37:29.280 on Giant Records. 0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:32.520 Because you were doing that that that sounds right. Yeah, yeah, 0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:33.320 it was for R c A. 0:37:33.800 --> 0:37:35.560 But I started to hijack the ship and started to 0:37:35.560 --> 0:37:37.839 produce a lot of the records when I thought I 0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:41.040 was the right guy. Okay, so I was doing the 0:37:41.080 --> 0:37:43.719 two hat thing. I hope this is all making sense 0:37:43.760 --> 0:37:45.719 because we're jumping around a lot. I was doing the 0:37:45.719 --> 0:37:47.520 two hat thing where I'm gonna bring you back, I'm 0:37:47.520 --> 0:37:50.920 gonna keep I only wanted to produce the records where 0:37:50.960 --> 0:37:52.920 I really thought I was the right guy because as 0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:55.919 an an R guy, I had a I could do more. Yeah, 0:37:55.960 --> 0:37:58.680 but as a producer, I knew my shtick, you know, 0:37:58.719 --> 0:38:02.319 and I tried to stay stay in my lane. So 0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:05.759 I saw so mitigate failure. That way I could still 0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:08.040 win as an an R guy. Christina's first album, I 0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:13.319 didn't produce anything nothing. I produced the producers, and that 0:38:13.440 --> 0:38:17.600 trick producing the producers exactly what Jimmy Iven did through 0:38:17.680 --> 0:38:19.920 all of the successful years of Interscope, and it was 0:38:19.960 --> 0:38:27.000 his mantra. That's why he had will I am Ron Fair, Timbaland, Pharrell, Kwame, 0:38:27.960 --> 0:38:32.160 Kerry Hillson. He produced all of us and he had 0:38:32.239 --> 0:38:35.120 that winning lineup. Yeah, because he himself was a producer, 0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:38.560 but he was he was just making hands off, he 0:38:38.640 --> 0:38:40.719 make he was just making suggestions. Some of them would 0:38:40.719 --> 0:38:43.440 piss me off and some of them would lead to 0:38:43.560 --> 0:38:44.719 greater heights. 0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:53.440 Yeah. 0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:55.640 So when you so you said that, So when you 0:38:55.680 --> 0:38:57.719 get the first Christina album, you don't produce that, not 0:38:57.800 --> 0:38:59.799 a single note, and you're at at that time it's 0:38:59.840 --> 0:39:00.279 our Yeah. 0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:04.960 Yeah, how long are you there that particular run? 0:39:04.960 --> 0:39:06.880 Because I was at RCA twice. 0:39:07.080 --> 0:39:08.720 Oh you went back? I went back. 0:39:09.160 --> 0:39:11.759 That was probably I think it was. I'm going to 0:39:11.800 --> 0:39:12.880 say it was like four years. 0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:15.880 So if you get fired from a company and they 0:39:15.920 --> 0:39:18.680 bring you back, do you hold anything like now you 0:39:18.760 --> 0:39:19.520 got a faby devil. 0:39:19.960 --> 0:39:24.600 Actually, I want to say this, So Christina came second 0:39:25.120 --> 0:39:28.920 in my pursuit to recreate the OJS as a white 0:39:28.920 --> 0:39:31.680 pop thing. The first iteration of it was. 0:39:31.840 --> 0:39:35.520 Wild wild, Yes, Okay, I'm familiar and. 0:39:35.440 --> 0:39:38.319 That was Stacy Ferguson, who became Fergie, who I went 0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:40.640 back and re signed into the Black Eyed Peas with 0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:44.000 which we'll talk about. Stephanie Roydell, who is the mother 0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:46.520 of my four children. Is the angel in my life yea, 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:50.680 but not at the time. And Renee Sanstrom and the 0:39:50.760 --> 0:39:54.120 ship that Wild Orchid was singing was the OJS. If 0:39:54.120 --> 0:39:57.000 you go back and listen to their album, it's all 0:39:57.080 --> 0:40:00.480 gamble and huff knockoff, all the harmonies, all the way 0:40:00.480 --> 0:40:03.839 the backgrounds work, and it was pre auto tune. We 0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:05.480 just had to sing the shit over and over over again, 0:40:05.560 --> 0:40:08.640 util it was in tune right. And so it didn't 0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:11.719 work as a three piece girl group because of management, 0:40:11.760 --> 0:40:15.319 because of luck, because of the circumstances at the time, 0:40:16.320 --> 0:40:19.200 because I didn't know enough. I was just an idiot 0:40:19.280 --> 0:40:22.320 kid record executive. I didn't know what I would later 0:40:22.640 --> 0:40:24.920 know which would allow me to not only make the records, 0:40:24.920 --> 0:40:29.719 would break acts. And so what I signing wasn't my 0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:33.440 first signing. My first signing was Armored Saint, the heavy 0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:36.440 metal band. That was the first first band I ever signed, 0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:44.239 but from all of the universe clobbering me and the 0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:48.239 failure of that, which was I spent when we turned 0:40:48.280 --> 0:40:51.680 in Wild Orchid. The head of the label was a 0:40:51.680 --> 0:40:54.360 guy named Strauss Zelnik. At the time, he was my 0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:57.279 boss's boss's boss. He was the head corporate guy. He 0:40:57.920 --> 0:41:00.120 said to me, this is going to sell millions and 0:41:00.160 --> 0:41:02.920 you're going to be David Foster because this album you 0:41:02.920 --> 0:41:05.399 have produced. Yeah, and I produced the Wild Work record, 0:41:05.400 --> 0:41:07.680 and I thought, like I bought a brand new Calvin 0:41:07.719 --> 0:41:09.680 Client suit that was like two thousand bucks. 0:41:09.760 --> 0:41:12.120 The shirt was seven hundred bucks because he told you 0:41:12.160 --> 0:41:13.440 used to be David Foster. 0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:17.480 And uh, it didn't happen, but I took Then I 0:41:17.520 --> 0:41:25.120 stumbled upon Christina and just took that the lessons. But 0:41:25.200 --> 0:41:29.040 she was not a group and she had the exquisite 0:41:29.160 --> 0:41:33.600 chops and so that's that's what led me to it. 0:41:34.080 --> 0:41:36.360 And you know, and the rest is history with Christina 0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:39.840 and that by then Christina became a cultural phenomenon and 0:41:39.880 --> 0:41:42.160 and she's still relevant to this day and she's a 0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:46.360 magnificent artist and singer, and you know, will always have 0:41:46.600 --> 0:41:50.160 my heart because she's my offspring in a way. 0:41:50.400 --> 0:41:54.680 Yeah. So when you go from RCA, do you go 0:41:54.840 --> 0:41:56.799 to Geffen directly from there? 0:41:57.000 --> 0:41:57.160 No? 0:41:57.560 --> 0:42:01.480 So here's what happened, because you got a thousand miles 0:42:01.520 --> 0:42:02.239 in between there. 0:42:02.280 --> 0:42:06.560 Now, that happened after after RCA, so so I had 0:42:06.560 --> 0:42:10.520 signed Christina. Her her single went to number one in 0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:14.440 four or five weeks, the album came in at number one. 0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:17.880 H Puff Daddy was number two. It was a miracle. 0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:22.120 And then I was king shit. Yeah okay, and my 0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:27.560 contract was up and I was two hundred and sixty 0:42:27.600 --> 0:42:30.759 five pounds one hundred pounds heavier than I am now. 0:42:31.560 --> 0:42:35.759 So I was a successful, fat an R guy and 0:42:36.160 --> 0:42:40.000 my with U thirteen million albums in my pocket from Christina, 0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:45.080 a bunch of number ones, yeah, and expiring contract. So 0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:49.560 I looked at myself with disgust, and I said one 0:42:49.600 --> 0:42:52.239 thing to myself, you can't make this ship up. And 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:56.680 I've never said any of this before anywhere. I thought, 0:42:56.960 --> 0:43:02.600 Killiman Jarrow, I'm going to I'm Mount Kilimanjaro, and I'm 0:43:02.640 --> 0:43:06.080 gonna get my head straight. And so I started walking 0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:09.880 on Runyan Canyon and get rid of that weight. And 0:43:09.920 --> 0:43:13.359 then I started running on Runyan Canyon to get rid 0:43:13.400 --> 0:43:15.600 of that weight. And then I started running with weight 0:43:16.480 --> 0:43:19.480 on Runyan Canyon and I trained, and then I signed 0:43:19.560 --> 0:43:22.319 up and I went on an expedition and went to 0:43:22.400 --> 0:43:26.239 the top of Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa. Yeah yeah, I 0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:32.400 climbed it and came back and got my weight under control. 0:43:33.360 --> 0:43:38.840 And right around that time, I was doing Christina's Christmas album, 0:43:39.080 --> 0:43:43.560 which is really a great album. She's completely insane on 0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:46.360 the ad libs on that record, singing at the peak 0:43:46.440 --> 0:43:50.080 of her youthful powers, like with nobody checking it. Ad 0:43:50.080 --> 0:43:52.759 libs like you can't even I mean so many, like 0:43:52.800 --> 0:43:55.000 it was incredible what she was doing, and I loved 0:43:55.000 --> 0:43:57.040 every note of it because I'm a jazz guy. So 0:43:57.120 --> 0:43:59.160 there she is running and running and running and running 0:43:59.160 --> 0:44:02.239 and running, and I wasn't gonna stopp her. So we're 0:44:02.280 --> 0:44:06.960 in We're in uh, Winnipeg, the mosquito capital of the world, 0:44:07.760 --> 0:44:11.520 where the mosquitoes are like birds, and and uh doing 0:44:11.560 --> 0:44:14.279 a Christmas album and and I get a call like 0:44:14.280 --> 0:44:17.880 we're in the middle of doing like Holy Night or something. 0:44:18.520 --> 0:44:21.160 The star the bright lee shining. Christina's in there singing, 0:44:21.520 --> 0:44:25.279 and it's like Jimmy Iaven online too. I'm thinking like, 0:44:25.320 --> 0:44:27.440 oh yeah, somebody's fucking pranking me. Jimmy Ivey is not 0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:31.359 calling me in and I'm in Winnipeg fucking doing Holy Night? 0:44:31.719 --> 0:44:35.680 What do you mean? So? Uh, I pick up the 0:44:35.719 --> 0:44:38.920 phone and I thought, like I used to I have 0:44:38.960 --> 0:44:40.600 a friend Danny Strik who used to prank me and 0:44:40.600 --> 0:44:42.840 call up and say it's Clive Davis, and you know, 0:44:43.160 --> 0:44:45.520 he pranked me all the time. So I pick up 0:44:45.560 --> 0:44:47.719 the phone and I said to Christina, hang on it' 0:44:47.719 --> 0:44:49.040 sec I gotta take this. And it's like, yeah, this 0:44:49.080 --> 0:44:51.520 is Jimmy Ivan. I had met him. I had met 0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:56.000 him once before, I barely knew him. And he said, 0:44:56.560 --> 0:44:59.960 I'm reading Rolling Stone magazine right here, your girl Christina 0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:03.080 on the cover and it says in this it says 0:45:03.080 --> 0:45:05.880 in this article that you forced her to sing Genie 0:45:05.880 --> 0:45:08.440 in a bottle. This is Jimmy on the phone. 0:45:08.640 --> 0:45:12.200 Is that true? And I'm thinking to myself, this is 0:45:12.239 --> 0:45:15.040 some kind of weird setup, like yeah, yeah, the trick 0:45:15.120 --> 0:45:16.239 question is something trick question? 0:45:17.680 --> 0:45:20.360 And I said uh uh. And before I could answer, 0:45:20.560 --> 0:45:23.600 Jimmy said this to me, I need a guy who 0:45:23.640 --> 0:45:27.719 can force artists to sing number one records? Can I 0:45:27.760 --> 0:45:29.600 have a meeting with you? And I went and met 0:45:29.640 --> 0:45:31.960 with Jimmy and again I told you, like I'd lost 0:45:31.960 --> 0:45:35.000 all the weight, I'd climbed out kil Njaro, Christina had 0:45:35.000 --> 0:45:37.880 one best new artist. It was the change in my 0:45:37.960 --> 0:45:41.160 life had come. And I went and met with Jimmy 0:45:41.239 --> 0:45:42.840 and he said, I want to make you president of 0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:45.880 A and M Records and I'll give you great salary. 0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:47.440 And you know, I said, well, Jimmy, you know I'm 0:45:47.480 --> 0:45:50.799 a producer. I'm I got to have a studio. I 0:45:50.800 --> 0:45:53.600 got to be able to cut records without a budget, 0:45:53.640 --> 0:45:54.920 like I just need to be able to record. And 0:45:54.960 --> 0:45:56.640 he said, man, you want you want studio? You want 0:45:56.640 --> 0:45:57.720 two studiess you want three studios. 0:45:57.719 --> 0:45:59.640 How many engineers? You want to have? Five engineers? What 0:45:59.640 --> 0:46:00.920 do you want? Yeah? 0:46:01.000 --> 0:46:04.360 I was told if you take that job, you're gonna 0:46:04.600 --> 0:46:10.560 curl up in a ball and disappear by somebody at RCA. 0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:13.359 And I that's when I knew, like I'm out of here. 0:46:14.440 --> 0:46:18.040 And then I took the job. And ten weeks later, 0:46:18.840 --> 0:46:22.719 Lady Marmalade good. Ten weeks later. And this is a 0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:27.640 great story because Jimmy so I just got there. And 0:46:27.760 --> 0:46:32.239 when I signed my contract, Jimmy was so smart. I mean, 0:46:32.280 --> 0:46:35.520 he's he is the zeus of it all. And I 0:46:35.560 --> 0:46:38.200 had him for ten years in my face, giving me 0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:42.040 A tripled Harvard PhD. In this ship that I am a. 0:46:42.360 --> 0:46:45.160 I am a graduate of it. And he had made 0:46:45.160 --> 0:46:50.320 the deal for Mulin Rouge, the album from the movie, 0:46:50.440 --> 0:46:53.600 and they were gonna cut Lady Marmalade, the pointers of 0:46:53.680 --> 0:46:57.480 the song that that Alan Tu saint Row. I met 0:46:57.480 --> 0:47:00.040 with Baz Luhrman and they hired Bas wanted me, I 0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:03.640 see Elliott to do the record, which along with Missy 0:47:03.760 --> 0:47:06.680 comes Rock Wilder and her team. 0:47:06.920 --> 0:47:07.120 Yeah. 0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:12.040 So I go to Westlake Studios on like day one 0:47:12.080 --> 0:47:15.359 of Lady Marmelot. I'm on the way over there and 0:47:15.400 --> 0:47:18.960 Mona Scott calls me up and goes, hey, Ron, you. 0:47:18.920 --> 0:47:19.759 Know how are I? Like? 0:47:22.000 --> 0:47:24.600 I got bad news. Turn around. You're not gonna work 0:47:24.640 --> 0:47:26.560 on the song. Missy doesn't want to do it that way. 0:47:26.600 --> 0:47:29.880 She was managing Missy, so like, don't go to the studio. 0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:33.920 It's like, Okay, I called Jimmy. I said, I think 0:47:33.960 --> 0:47:35.160 I've just been fired off the song. 0:47:35.680 --> 0:47:36.880 Give me a minute. 0:47:37.200 --> 0:47:39.399 So I'm driving back to Santa Monica now, and then 0:47:39.400 --> 0:47:41.120 Mona calls back and goes, oh, okay, no, no, no, no, 0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:44.719 go to the studio and we had Rock Wilder's track 0:47:44.719 --> 0:47:47.600 and Rock Wilder had this miracle where he got his 0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:50.600 brand new core triton this new keyboard. 0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:51.879 At the time, this was the hot shit. 0:47:52.280 --> 0:47:54.480 And when you turn the keyboard on, the very first 0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:58.800 sound that comes up, bank a sound zero zero zero 0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:01.840 was called noise. He stabber, that was the name of 0:48:01.880 --> 0:48:04.640 the patch, and he put his hand on it and 0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:09.360 it was done. 0:48:09.760 --> 0:48:12.799 Bank a patch zero zero zero. Like you didn't even 0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:14.759 fish for the shit. It was right there. 0:48:14.920 --> 0:48:19.560 Magic, magic, magic. So we took the idea to Christina. 0:48:19.680 --> 0:48:22.799 Jimmy was smart because he let me continue to work 0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:26.360 with Christina on RCA even though I was now at Innerscope. 0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:29.200 I had a carve out ten weeks later. 0:48:29.440 --> 0:48:33.759 Okay, Christina jumps on the record. We put we get 0:48:33.800 --> 0:48:36.520 Pink to agree to come on it. Our home team 0:48:36.640 --> 0:48:39.400 girl was Maya, so you damn straight. I was gonna 0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:42.879 put somebody from the home team water and then little 0:48:42.920 --> 0:48:47.160 Kim came because of Missy and this magic thing happened. 0:48:47.200 --> 0:48:50.520 Was thirteen days, Lady Marmola was thirteen days. And I 0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:54.040 remember saying to Rock Wilder the whole time, am I 0:48:54.120 --> 0:48:58.919 making this shit too clean? It's like, no, man, I'll 0:48:58.920 --> 0:49:03.479 tell you if you go too far and he kept 0:49:03.520 --> 0:49:05.600 it all on track, and then we kept sending it 0:49:05.600 --> 0:49:06.000 to Missy. 0:49:06.640 --> 0:49:08.279 He says, okay, is this okay? Is this okay? Is 0:49:08.320 --> 0:49:08.840 this okay? 0:49:09.120 --> 0:49:10.840 And then when it came to the ad libs on 0:49:11.239 --> 0:49:16.160 Lady Marmalade, I realized they all have different schedules. They're 0:49:16.160 --> 0:49:17.479 not in the studio at the same time. 0:49:17.800 --> 0:49:18.160 How am I? 0:49:18.280 --> 0:49:20.120 How is this going to work where everybody, all four 0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:22.759 of them including Kim, are doing ad libs. By the way, 0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:25.719 I want to say this, the pocket for the hook 0:49:25.760 --> 0:49:29.960 on Lady Marmalade, Hey, Sister Soul, and the all that 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:31.120 shit was Maya. 0:49:31.960 --> 0:49:33.920 Maya laid the original. 0:49:33.480 --> 0:49:37.280 Vocal down and and everybody, everybody jumped on her pocket. 0:49:37.480 --> 0:49:40.480 She's an unsung hero. And of course they went on 0:49:40.480 --> 0:49:44.440 to win the Grammy. But you know, Maya was an 0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:47.840 incredibly hard worker and she she like she kind of 0:49:47.840 --> 0:49:51.000 like doesn't get her her props, her flowers. 0:49:51.480 --> 0:49:53.160 Give her some flowers. Yeah, we love Maya. 0:49:53.280 --> 0:49:55.840 Yeah, that was her pocket. Everybody jumped on it. And 0:49:55.880 --> 0:49:57.879 then it became like a lot has been written about 0:49:57.920 --> 0:50:01.120 Lady Marmalade, where you know that there was friction and 0:50:01.120 --> 0:50:04.480 that I took Christina aside over pink and like, honestly, 0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:07.080 I think all that is is great to sell magazines. 0:50:07.120 --> 0:50:10.000 That the magic was there. They ouched. It was a 0:50:10.400 --> 0:50:12.959 like almost like a battle between them, but the ad 0:50:12.960 --> 0:50:16.319 lib technique was very much. It was an idea I 0:50:16.360 --> 0:50:19.080 had that if I because the song is modal, which 0:50:19.160 --> 0:50:22.719 means that all through it dun dun dun dun dun 0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:27.720 dun dunh there's a harmonic hitching post that everything springs 0:50:27.760 --> 0:50:30.520 off of, and that you could sing an ad lib 0:50:30.560 --> 0:50:33.120 through the entire three minute track, an ad lib pass 0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:35.000 without the chords changing. 0:50:35.280 --> 0:50:37.160 Yeah, as long. 0:50:37.040 --> 0:50:39.919 As you stuck to the base, you could add lib. 0:50:40.840 --> 0:50:43.560 So I took each girl in and I just said 0:50:43.640 --> 0:50:48.120 ad lib top to bottom, all the way through, five times. 0:50:48.320 --> 0:50:49.040 And find the hole. 0:50:49.920 --> 0:50:52.359 And then during the ad lib pass, I would say 0:50:52.360 --> 0:50:55.440 sing that again, sing what again? Yeah yeah yeah yeah, 0:50:55.480 --> 0:50:57.279 sing it again, yeah yeah yeah, sing it five times 0:50:57.280 --> 0:50:59.480 in a row, yeah yeah yeah yahkay another pass. And 0:50:59.520 --> 0:51:02.160 I had an archive of ad libs from each singer. 0:51:02.440 --> 0:51:04.960 Then I went through it and I learned them all 0:51:05.000 --> 0:51:07.400 and I cataloged them and I gave them all names. 0:51:07.719 --> 0:51:10.080 And I have two keyboards and an L shape, and 0:51:10.120 --> 0:51:12.080 I gave them all names. And they were color coded 0:51:12.120 --> 0:51:15.920 like Maya's ad libs were green, Christinas were red, Pinks 0:51:16.200 --> 0:51:19.719 were blue, and Little Kim was purple and even like that, 0:51:19.840 --> 0:51:21.680 yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Like none of that was done 0:51:22.080 --> 0:51:24.080 where it is in the record. It was all just 0:51:24.120 --> 0:51:27.160 done randomly on the track somewhere, and I would name 0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:32.440 each ad lib like upswoop, ski jump, big nose, like 0:51:32.520 --> 0:51:35.960 some way to remember remember it what the ads were. 0:51:36.000 --> 0:51:38.920 And then I played them in and I had Q 0:51:39.120 --> 0:51:43.640 points where two three, four, yeah, yeah yeah, where would 0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:46.000 come in in the pocket based on the Q point 0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:49.400 And I played it in as a musical composition off keyboard, 0:51:49.440 --> 0:51:51.920 and I have pictures of this, and that's how the 0:51:52.000 --> 0:51:55.040 ad lib scheme came together, so that they all are 0:51:55.080 --> 0:51:57.640 going off each other yea, because I composed it off 0:51:57.680 --> 0:52:00.520 of their improvisation, so you get the best of both worlds. 0:52:00.520 --> 0:52:02.440 So you get the free spirit. 0:52:02.080 --> 0:52:05.600 Of an ad lib but in the right location geographically 0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:08.920 that they could never do unless they rehearsed it and 0:52:09.000 --> 0:52:11.680 practiced it and wrote it in advance, which was never 0:52:11.680 --> 0:52:14.160 gonna happen because they have different schedules and different lives, 0:52:14.200 --> 0:52:17.719 different shopping, you know all that. So lady Marmelwood comes 0:52:17.719 --> 0:52:21.840 out and it goes to number one. 0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:23.720 And you've been at the label for ten half months. Yeah, 0:52:23.840 --> 0:52:26.200 and and then. 0:52:27.640 --> 0:52:32.400 Another soundtrack, Yeah, the soundtrack, interestingly, and then it was 0:52:32.680 --> 0:52:35.080 it went on to win the Grammy and that was 0:52:35.080 --> 0:52:39.920 a beautiful thing. But right around then is when Damon Elliott. 0:52:39.719 --> 0:52:41.719 Yeah, the Legend was working. 0:52:41.440 --> 0:52:43.719 At Enterprise Studios, where so Dave pens Auto had like 0:52:43.760 --> 0:52:46.880 a salon and everybody was Beyonce. Everybody was going to 0:52:46.920 --> 0:52:50.520 Dave Pensado was mixing everything and a great mixer. 0:52:50.320 --> 0:52:54.000 Absolutely great. Listen, you're saying nothing but legend. 0:52:54.560 --> 0:52:58.960 So in the back room was Dion Warwick Kid who 0:52:59.040 --> 0:53:02.080 had like a little hundred dollars a month shithole studio, 0:53:02.560 --> 0:53:05.840 Damon Elliott. And Damon Elliott had an artist that he 0:53:05.920 --> 0:53:09.759 was developing named Keisha Cole Oakland and he knew them 0:53:09.840 --> 0:53:12.120 because of Smokey's twins. 0:53:12.320 --> 0:53:14.640 And Megan Lamaiyah. Yeah, all of them. 0:53:14.480 --> 0:53:17.000 Are around there, and young Keisha from Oakland, this rough girl, 0:53:17.640 --> 0:53:21.880 and and Greg Curtis and it was next to Dave Pinzato, 0:53:22.120 --> 0:53:22.919 like in the next room. 0:53:23.040 --> 0:53:24.200 It's like, hey man, you want to. 0:53:24.200 --> 0:53:26.919 Hear day there's no studio that we're into Yeah, because 0:53:26.920 --> 0:53:27.960 of Jason Josh that's right. 0:53:28.040 --> 0:53:30.120 Yeah, absolutely so all connected. 0:53:30.320 --> 0:53:32.360 I hope this is all interesting because it's like really 0:53:33.000 --> 0:53:34.719 in the woodwork. And I've never said a lot of 0:53:34.719 --> 0:53:37.439 this stuff, like I don't have a book because nobody reads. 0:53:37.520 --> 0:53:38.400 Isn't the point in writing it. 0:53:38.600 --> 0:53:40.040 That's why we have a podcast. That's why we have 0:53:40.040 --> 0:53:42.200 a podcasts why we're talking shit on here today. So 0:53:42.320 --> 0:53:46.440 we had Keisha Cole. Now, yeah, so Keisha Cole is 0:53:46.480 --> 0:53:49.520 this young kid. They had a whole album. 0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:52.239 There was a song called Snatch Your Weave out. There 0:53:52.320 --> 0:53:57.840 was this this whole thing. She had miraculously survived Oakland 0:53:57.880 --> 0:54:00.680 and had like shook night, put her up in a 0:54:00.760 --> 0:54:04.000 house for a while, like friend of Tupac, Like her 0:54:04.080 --> 0:54:07.719 story is absolutely incredible. And then they play me that song. 0:54:07.560 --> 0:54:11.040 Love yep and uh that was. 0:54:11.040 --> 0:54:16.520 A demo and I've found you that weird ad lib 0:54:16.600 --> 0:54:19.640 with a skip in it, And I thought to myself, 0:54:20.400 --> 0:54:23.359 this is the most authentic ship I've ever heard. This 0:54:23.440 --> 0:54:26.720 is this is authentic, this is this is the sound 0:54:26.800 --> 0:54:33.520 of authentic pain and it's beautiful. It was like, I 0:54:33.560 --> 0:54:38.840 want to sign you, and she's like suspicious and not 0:54:39.040 --> 0:54:41.960 understanding and I took her a couple of dinners and stuff, 0:54:42.000 --> 0:54:44.920 and there was we went to the Ivy and she 0:54:45.000 --> 0:54:47.200 had like some of the vegetables in the salad she 0:54:47.280 --> 0:54:48.440 never heard of and that. 0:54:50.040 --> 0:54:53.200 Yeah, and I hear this polish. Yeah, Ivy is a 0:54:53.200 --> 0:54:54.120 little weird, but. 0:54:54.640 --> 0:54:58.799 Like music professor guy who's talking to her and that 0:54:58.840 --> 0:55:03.279 would be me. And so at one point she just said, well, 0:55:03.320 --> 0:55:05.440 you just got a pinky swear that you're going to 0:55:05.520 --> 0:55:08.560 take care of me. And I said, what is that? 0:55:08.840 --> 0:55:10.759 I didn't know, you know, didn't know what it was. 0:55:11.080 --> 0:55:12.640 She put a pinky on, she goes, this is it? 0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:13.200 Right him out? 0:55:13.920 --> 0:55:17.200 When you pinky swear with me? That is that is blood? 0:55:17.280 --> 0:55:19.120 I mean we locked in and I. 0:55:19.400 --> 0:55:22.319 Said yeah, And I took her to Jimmy to his 0:55:22.440 --> 0:55:27.200 house in Holmbie Hills and I said, I want to 0:55:27.239 --> 0:55:34.160 sign Keisha Cole and he said great. So we signed 0:55:34.160 --> 0:55:38.440 her and started working on a record. And then there 0:55:38.520 --> 0:55:42.920 was this weird song that she had. Oh well, actually 0:55:44.239 --> 0:55:47.600 actually the first thing we did was a beautiful cover 0:55:47.760 --> 0:55:51.600 of Never Too Much, the Luther song that got on 0:55:51.640 --> 0:55:53.960 the barbershop soundtracks, like let's introduce you on this barber 0:55:54.000 --> 0:55:58.080 shop soundtrack. But there was heavy politics on the barbershopild. 0:55:57.600 --> 0:56:02.000 Hold on real quick, because as this is all happening, 0:56:02.760 --> 0:56:04.240 Keisha Cole is already my friend. 0:56:04.360 --> 0:56:08.960 Yeah, and I'm hearing about I just met with Ron Fair. 0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:10.879 Do you know him? 0:56:11.000 --> 0:56:13.680 I'm like, I know who he is, and you know 0:56:13.760 --> 0:56:16.440 he's he said he got these Oh he's the he's 0:56:16.480 --> 0:56:19.239 the head of an m Geffen and it's at it. 0:56:19.280 --> 0:56:21.279 I was like, yeah, interscope and you know the whole thing. 0:56:21.320 --> 0:56:26.400 And she's like, well, by this point, Keisha had probably 0:56:26.400 --> 0:56:28.080 been in LA maybe a year or two, a couple 0:56:28.120 --> 0:56:32.560 of years whatever, and I had probably met four or 0:56:32.600 --> 0:56:38.440 five different managers, yeah, in this span. And and she 0:56:38.520 --> 0:56:40.080 was asking me if I knew Damen Elliott. 0:56:40.120 --> 0:56:40.960 I was like, I know who all. 0:56:41.160 --> 0:56:42.880 He keeps asking me if I know people, and I'm like, 0:56:42.960 --> 0:56:45.160 I know who they are, but I don't know them personally. 0:56:45.480 --> 0:56:47.759 I was like, but I never heard anything but good 0:56:48.000 --> 0:56:53.000 about everybody your naming between yourself, Damon Elliott. And and 0:56:53.040 --> 0:56:55.400 she's like, all right, and I want you to meet 0:56:55.719 --> 0:56:59.160 Manny Haley. And I'm like, all right, And I meet 0:56:59.160 --> 0:57:01.920 Manny and he's like and got his voice too, right, 0:57:01.960 --> 0:57:02.920 everybody got the voices? 0:57:03.360 --> 0:57:05.040 Oh yeah, Yeah, we're gonna do it, Kischen, We're gonna 0:57:05.640 --> 0:57:06.359 it's gonna be great. 0:57:06.400 --> 0:57:10.200 And you guys are working on the project. I'm like, well, 0:57:10.200 --> 0:57:14.200 how's it going, and where's that song love? Because she 0:57:14.200 --> 0:57:16.600 had already played that record for me. Yeah, And I 0:57:16.640 --> 0:57:19.960 was like, I don't know about anything else. You played 0:57:19.960 --> 0:57:24.520 me that song whenever it sees the light of day. 0:57:24.960 --> 0:57:27.080 Because I had known Great Curtis too, I was like, 0:57:27.080 --> 0:57:31.240 whenever that song sees the light of day. 0:57:30.240 --> 0:57:31.040 You're out of here. 0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:35.600 You're absolutely took a long, long, securitiest path to get 0:57:35.640 --> 0:57:47.120 to it. Yes, so never too much comes out. Eve 0:57:47.200 --> 0:57:48.960 is on the record, and that's how she met Manny 0:57:49.160 --> 0:57:52.439 because Mannie was working for Troy Carter and Troy Carter 0:57:52.560 --> 0:57:54.560 was managing Eve, and that's how they all met and 0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:59.560 then we got we got The next record was this 0:58:00.120 --> 0:58:02.720 it's very strange beat. I couldn't make heads or tails 0:58:02.720 --> 0:58:04.680 of it. We were a record plant. It had this 0:58:04.760 --> 0:58:09.200 weird handclap. It was Kanye West and John Legend. Everybody 0:58:09.280 --> 0:58:16.000 was there and and me and I'm like, the sort 0:58:16.000 --> 0:58:20.000 of the music cup John played piano on it, and 0:58:20.040 --> 0:58:22.000 they had written this song. I changed my mind, yes, 0:58:23.520 --> 0:58:25.320 and like the first couple of nights working on it, 0:58:25.720 --> 0:58:28.600 I couldn't. It was like, there's a joke, where's one? 0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:31.280 Meaning I couldn't find that. I couldn't feel a downbeat, yeah, 0:58:31.800 --> 0:58:34.240 like I just yeah, I just couldn't feel it, and 0:58:34.240 --> 0:58:36.080 everybody else is feeling I couldn't feel. But then when 0:58:36.080 --> 0:58:39.040 I got it, it was like, oh, so it allowed 0:58:39.080 --> 0:58:42.040 me to put my hands on it on the rough 0:58:42.040 --> 0:58:44.760 mix in a way that it started to sound like 0:58:44.800 --> 0:58:48.680 something m h in the room. And if I'm not mistaken, 0:58:49.080 --> 0:58:52.120 the mix that not. No, I changed my mind. I 0:58:52.120 --> 0:58:59.600 think day mixed so so never too much comes out, 0:59:00.040 --> 0:59:06.840 doesn't get work really tanks. Next comes, I changed my mind. 0:59:07.760 --> 0:59:11.520 The song goes to number one in New York and 0:59:11.600 --> 0:59:14.640 nowhere else nowhere. It's not even a hit anywhere else, 0:59:14.960 --> 0:59:17.520 but in New York it's number one, which you cannot 0:59:17.560 --> 0:59:19.560 do that in your wildest dreams. 0:59:19.560 --> 0:59:20.440 You couldn't recreate that. 0:59:20.960 --> 0:59:22.880 Literally, jay z is number two. 0:59:22.760 --> 0:59:25.439 It's the biggest mart is number one in because even 0:59:25.440 --> 0:59:28.680 at home, right, Like I would argue with our DJs 0:59:28.720 --> 0:59:31.240 at home and I'm like, yeah, I gotta support this. 0:59:32.160 --> 0:59:35.000 She's from home from the Bay Area. You have to 0:59:35.040 --> 0:59:37.080 get behind this. And like, I don't really know if 0:59:37.080 --> 0:59:39.439 that record is it? You know what I mean, there's 0:59:39.440 --> 0:59:42.000 a weird record. It's okay, you know that's where I 0:59:42.040 --> 0:59:42.280 can And. 0:59:42.280 --> 0:59:44.919 Then the video, which which you have this little story 0:59:44.960 --> 0:59:46.120 to tell about that. 0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:48.880 Yeah, yeah, little story. Yeah. 0:59:50.760 --> 0:59:54.520 So every couple of months I get reminded about this, 0:59:54.680 --> 0:59:58.200 especially with this new age of the Internet, that no 0:59:58.240 --> 1:00:00.680 matter what I do in my life, I am forever 1:00:00.960 --> 1:00:01.560 a video ho. 1:00:02.680 --> 1:00:05.880 So you know, I changed my nub, I've changed my mind. 1:00:05.960 --> 1:00:06.760 I am I am the. 1:00:06.760 --> 1:00:08.880 Video ho or video guy or whatever you want to 1:00:09.080 --> 1:00:13.919 put it. But going back to that video and back 1:00:13.920 --> 1:00:17.760 to that song. So I go sit with Keisha and 1:00:17.800 --> 1:00:20.280 she's playing me the album and she's like, this is 1:00:20.440 --> 1:00:22.960 this is my first single, and I'd be very honest, 1:00:22.960 --> 1:00:24.000 I'm like, where's Love? 1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:25.040 Once again? 1:00:25.640 --> 1:00:28.960 I'm like, I know it's a ballot because the music 1:00:29.000 --> 1:00:31.480 industry we know how to go. You don't start with 1:00:31.520 --> 1:00:33.880 a ballot. You gotta go with a tempo record. And 1:00:33.920 --> 1:00:36.920 blah blah Blah's like, Yo, that record Love is a smash. 1:00:37.040 --> 1:00:40.240 Like She's like, no, I'm telling you, Jay, I'm like, well, 1:00:40.560 --> 1:00:42.320 they're the label, so I guess you gotta listen. 1:00:42.640 --> 1:00:46.240 I said, but I think love is your smash. 1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:49.240 And she's like, yeah, and one more thing, it's my 1:00:49.400 --> 1:00:52.320 single and I need you in the video. I'm like, 1:00:52.600 --> 1:00:57.880 well no, She's like, yes, you're in my video. I said, Keisha, 1:00:57.920 --> 1:01:00.280 I'm not in your video. Yes, you are going to 1:01:00.320 --> 1:01:04.680 play this other song. It's called Superstar and you're going 1:01:04.760 --> 1:01:08.960 to feature on it. We all know Keisha. When Keisha 1:01:09.000 --> 1:01:12.439 makes up her mind, she's going to figure out how 1:01:12.480 --> 1:01:16.360 to make these things happen. So within all of this stuff, 1:01:16.520 --> 1:01:19.920 I end up meeting first Michelle Thomas, who worked with you. 1:01:20.280 --> 1:01:23.120 I think she was the GM at the time. Yeah, 1:01:23.240 --> 1:01:25.000 she was my right hand person. 1:01:25.120 --> 1:01:26.520 Had of artists AVOUM, but I mean we had a 1:01:26.520 --> 1:01:29.440 little six man team, so she was yeah, it was 1:01:29.600 --> 1:01:30.000 just us. 1:01:30.800 --> 1:01:34.240 And so I go meet with Michelle and Michelle's like, oh, 1:01:34.280 --> 1:01:35.960 if he's going to sing on my on your song, 1:01:37.080 --> 1:01:37.640 sing for me. 1:01:38.920 --> 1:01:39.240 Now. 1:01:39.680 --> 1:01:44.080 Somehow I went from being possibly a video hole to 1:01:44.200 --> 1:01:47.360 now auditioning and just me being who I am and 1:01:47.360 --> 1:01:48.080 just my personality. 1:01:48.080 --> 1:01:49.320 I'm like, all right, fuck it, I'll sing. 1:01:49.720 --> 1:01:51.880 So I sing for Michelle and Michelle's like, oh my god, 1:01:51.920 --> 1:01:53.880 you're going to be great on the song. You need 1:01:53.920 --> 1:01:56.800 to meet Ron Fair. I'm like, this is all in 1:01:56.840 --> 1:01:59.560 the same day too. I'm just bouncing perfect right. And 1:01:59.600 --> 1:02:02.600 they're like, well, he's mixing something or producing something that 1:02:02.720 --> 1:02:03.800 some studio go see him. 1:02:04.760 --> 1:02:07.080 Me and Manny riding around because Keisha's somewhere else. 1:02:07.120 --> 1:02:10.560 At this point, many takes me to meet you. 1:02:10.560 --> 1:02:11.280 You say the same thing. 1:02:11.280 --> 1:02:14.920 You're like, oh, okay, Keisha's friend Kesha wants you on 1:02:14.920 --> 1:02:15.320 the record. 1:02:15.560 --> 1:02:16.520 I would make it happen. 1:02:17.200 --> 1:02:19.440 Oh and you're in the video, so I'm like, yo, 1:02:19.840 --> 1:02:21.440 had they talked about this shit. 1:02:21.320 --> 1:02:22.320 Before I got here? 1:02:23.600 --> 1:02:28.760 So long story short, video day happens, and I don't 1:02:28.800 --> 1:02:32.280 know if you remember this. During lunch at the video, 1:02:33.360 --> 1:02:37.120 you pulled me to the side and law and behold, 1:02:37.160 --> 1:02:38.480 I don't know how this ended up happening. 1:02:38.520 --> 1:02:41.360 I guess how the world works. You're like, Jay, you 1:02:41.440 --> 1:02:42.080 know Doug Mark. 1:02:42.160 --> 1:02:42.360 Yeah. 1:02:42.400 --> 1:02:44.960 I'm like yes, my lawyers like yeah, he's my lawyer too. 1:02:45.480 --> 1:02:47.440 And Doug comes and he pulls up and I'm like, 1:02:47.640 --> 1:02:52.800 all right, so this is a full setup. And you're like, well, 1:02:52.960 --> 1:02:55.800 I said, so okay, so why why is our lawyer here? 1:02:56.120 --> 1:02:57.000 Yeah? 1:02:57.040 --> 1:03:00.280 And you're like, well, our lawyer's here because we got 1:03:00.280 --> 1:03:01.640 to get a deal done. I'm like, what do you 1:03:01.640 --> 1:03:03.040 mean we got to get a deal done? I'm just 1:03:03.040 --> 1:03:05.919 I'm here to shoot a video. You're like, no, You're 1:03:05.920 --> 1:03:08.919 going to be on Superstar. And your words to me were, 1:03:10.560 --> 1:03:14.920 Keisha's a superstar. I'm gonna make her a superstar. And 1:03:14.960 --> 1:03:17.200 if I put you on the album with my superstar, 1:03:18.120 --> 1:03:21.800 you got to be my superstar too. And I'm like, 1:03:22.280 --> 1:03:24.160 and it's all calculating to me, and I'm like, he's 1:03:24.160 --> 1:03:27.560 making a lot of sense, I said, But I'm also 1:03:27.680 --> 1:03:31.720 caught off guard. Yeah right, because I think I had 1:03:31.760 --> 1:03:34.480 just hired Doug maybe a couple of months before. 1:03:34.880 --> 1:03:40.439 So I'm like, now I'm cautious, and I'm like, am. 1:03:40.400 --> 1:03:44.640 I being set up or at this point being completely 1:03:44.720 --> 1:03:47.520 honest and transparent. I did not want to be an artist. 1:03:48.320 --> 1:03:51.000 I had already went through a phase where I was 1:03:51.040 --> 1:03:55.720 signed to a Lecture Records, it didn't work out. I 1:03:55.840 --> 1:03:58.840 just wanted to focus on being a songwriter. And by 1:03:58.880 --> 1:04:01.080 this point I had already made a boatload of money 1:04:01.200 --> 1:04:04.800 as a songwriter because I've written for Tyrese when he 1:04:04.840 --> 1:04:07.960 was on RCA, written I like Them Girls, written for 1:04:08.000 --> 1:04:11.680 in Sync at this point, and I'm in full underdog mode. 1:04:11.680 --> 1:04:14.520 We're doing all of our underdog this is what two 1:04:14.560 --> 1:04:17.440 thousand and five, we're in full mode. We're just we're 1:04:17.520 --> 1:04:21.919 killing shit. And I'm like, I'm already in my mind 1:04:21.960 --> 1:04:25.360 at that age. I'm rich. I don't yeah, I don't 1:04:25.400 --> 1:04:28.480 want to do the artist things, and this is being 1:04:28.520 --> 1:04:29.200 thrown at me. 1:04:30.720 --> 1:04:31.240 Randomly. 1:04:31.560 --> 1:04:35.320 So I'm like, I don't know, and you tell me. 1:04:35.360 --> 1:04:38.840 You said, I can't put you on this song unless 1:04:38.840 --> 1:04:43.480 you're signed here. And a part of me was a 1:04:43.480 --> 1:04:45.920 little salty because I'm like, well, that's my homegirl and 1:04:45.960 --> 1:04:47.720 this is her album and she wants me on it. 1:04:48.080 --> 1:04:51.760 But the business side of it for me was he's 1:04:51.800 --> 1:04:52.439 actually right. 1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:58.520 So to play defense when you're in that position, working 1:04:58.560 --> 1:05:01.080 at a record company or whatever it. The reason why 1:05:01.160 --> 1:05:04.040 I took that position is because it happened to me 1:05:04.520 --> 1:05:09.560 where I put an artist on an album and did 1:05:09.600 --> 1:05:12.960 not have her signed, and the song went to number 1:05:13.000 --> 1:05:15.520 one on Billboard and it was a song from reality 1:05:15.560 --> 1:05:21.960 but it's called Stay by Lisa Loebe Okay, So I 1:05:22.000 --> 1:05:25.280 wanted to sign Lisa Lobe, but I failed to do 1:05:25.320 --> 1:05:29.240 that for a lot of circumstantial reasons. The rule of 1:05:29.320 --> 1:05:34.120 thumb was don't put people on records without having something. 1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:36.200 If you can cover, if you can cover yourself. It 1:05:36.320 --> 1:05:38.080 wasn't meant to be draconian. 1:05:38.440 --> 1:05:42.040 And like I said, I completely I completely understood. I 1:05:42.160 --> 1:05:44.440 wasn't you know. I never felt a way about it. 1:05:44.440 --> 1:05:47.320 I'm just like it was a it was a learning experience. 1:05:47.360 --> 1:05:47.760 I love that. 1:05:47.880 --> 1:05:49.800 I love all that, you know what I mean, especially 1:05:49.800 --> 1:05:52.200 as I grew with the business and started to understand that. 1:05:52.880 --> 1:05:54.680 Well, let me go back to the to the chronology. 1:05:54.760 --> 1:05:57.000 So so I changed my mind because go out and 1:05:57.080 --> 1:05:59.080 goes on to number one in New York but nowhere else, 1:05:59.480 --> 1:06:03.160 so we're kind of nowhere. We got this brick with 1:06:03.320 --> 1:06:05.120 Never too Much, which is a great record with Kish 1:06:05.520 --> 1:06:08.360 and then and then the Kanye John legend changed my mind. 1:06:08.520 --> 1:06:10.480 Was number one in Europe but nowhere else. And the 1:06:10.520 --> 1:06:15.520 next record was Over and Over, which was Alicia Keys. 1:06:15.920 --> 1:06:18.760 She wrote it, but Alicia Keys manager would not let 1:06:18.840 --> 1:06:20.560 us put Alicia Keys name on the name on it 1:06:21.000 --> 1:06:21.880 for whatever reason. 1:06:21.920 --> 1:06:24.400 You know, it's funny about that one. I'm also in 1:06:24.440 --> 1:06:29.240 that video too, are you you are the video it? Yes, 1:06:29.680 --> 1:06:33.120 it was the continuation You're now a running character. 1:06:32.920 --> 1:06:35.240 Because yes, in the first video I cheated on her, 1:06:35.640 --> 1:06:37.600 I get caught with the girl. I'm outside with a 1:06:37.640 --> 1:06:39.840 dow rag on coming out of bed with a fucking 1:06:39.880 --> 1:06:42.880 wife beater on it, the do rag looking ridiculous. And 1:06:42.960 --> 1:06:45.600 in the second video she sees me at the party, 1:06:46.520 --> 1:06:48.520 this is she kind of like, this is me. 1:06:48.720 --> 1:06:50.640 She looks like, yeah, whatever, he's whack. 1:06:51.040 --> 1:06:54.000 This is great trivia. So I guess I don't know. 1:06:54.800 --> 1:06:57.720 So over and over breaks the top forty on the 1:06:57.840 --> 1:07:01.400 urban radio chair, but it's yeah, now we got three bricks. 1:07:02.480 --> 1:07:05.880 Then Michelle Thomas, who we mentioned, who was my right 1:07:05.880 --> 1:07:10.720 hand person, said to me her quote from her great 1:07:10.760 --> 1:07:16.000 aunt from the stoop in somewhere in Louisiana, if you 1:07:16.000 --> 1:07:17.520 always do what you always did, you always get what 1:07:17.560 --> 1:07:21.640 you always got. It's like sorry, If you always do 1:07:21.680 --> 1:07:24.240 what you always did, you always get what you always got. Okay, 1:07:24.240 --> 1:07:26.880 what do you mean? Y'all are picking the wrong singles? 1:07:26.960 --> 1:07:29.240 Y'all a bunch of men picking the wrong singles. What 1:07:29.240 --> 1:07:30.720 do you think women are going to want to hear? 1:07:30.720 --> 1:07:32.800 You're picking the wrong singles? On Kisha Cole, the song 1:07:32.920 --> 1:07:36.560 should have cheated? Say what the song is? 1:07:36.560 --> 1:07:40.040 Should have cheated? Yeah, So we still. 1:07:39.920 --> 1:07:43.920 Had a budget and she made the call and I 1:07:44.080 --> 1:07:45.920 mixed that record. 1:07:46.160 --> 1:07:48.160 Well, hey, I finished it. I put strings on it. 1:07:48.240 --> 1:07:50.800 I put the spaghetti Western harmonica and the piano like 1:07:51.000 --> 1:07:51.320 it was. 1:07:51.480 --> 1:07:52.360 It was a. 1:07:52.160 --> 1:07:54.760 Collab, but it was a great record. And no one 1:07:54.800 --> 1:07:57.280 else had ever said that in the song, I might 1:07:57.320 --> 1:07:59.720 as well have cheated as much as you accuse me. 1:08:00.240 --> 1:08:02.840 That is the real shit that, that's the real thing 1:08:02.880 --> 1:08:07.480 where she was communicating to her to her people. Every 1:08:07.600 --> 1:08:11.480 girl could relate to that. I might as well have 1:08:11.680 --> 1:08:15.040 cheated as much as you accused me. I was like, wow, okay, 1:08:15.120 --> 1:08:18.920 no one ever said that in the song before. So 1:08:18.920 --> 1:08:21.880 so we put that out and what happens. Shit goes 1:08:21.920 --> 1:08:24.720 to number one changed everything, that record change. So I'm 1:08:24.760 --> 1:08:27.599 give you an anecdote. I go to Jimmy and then 1:08:27.600 --> 1:08:31.400 now we're at mister Chow's garnet, march the whole fucking 1:08:31.520 --> 1:08:35.080 urban staff. We're running up a gigantic bill, drinking crystal, 1:08:35.240 --> 1:08:41.760 eating crazy overpriced mister Chows, having parties. Yeah, extras, the 1:08:41.880 --> 1:08:44.640 bell of the ball, like furs and looking like a 1:08:45.360 --> 1:08:45.960 movie star. 1:08:46.600 --> 1:08:48.320 She was doing it up, doing it up. 1:08:48.720 --> 1:08:53.160 So I was filled with this is amazing what we've done, 1:08:54.160 --> 1:08:57.360 you know, giving her voice a place in the culture 1:08:57.640 --> 1:09:00.880 with this music. And I went to Jimmy and I said, 1:09:01.439 --> 1:09:05.280 you know, we really look good on the street because 1:09:05.280 --> 1:09:08.200 we stuck with it. We broke her on her fourth single. 1:09:09.400 --> 1:09:11.559 It's a great look for the label. It's a great 1:09:11.600 --> 1:09:13.360 thing to be proud of. And he said, what the 1:09:13.439 --> 1:09:16.080 fuck are you talking about? All that means is that 1:09:16.120 --> 1:09:28.920 you picked the wrong single three times? Now this with 1:09:29.000 --> 1:09:30.920 this much distance, in this many years. Of course, I 1:09:30.960 --> 1:09:33.800 love him for saying the truth and that's his form 1:09:33.800 --> 1:09:37.080 of tough love. And then we put out Love with 1:09:37.120 --> 1:09:40.200 the with the I make up running down her cheek 1:09:41.000 --> 1:09:44.120 wearing the white fur, and it went bananas. 1:09:44.320 --> 1:09:46.559 You put fucking Tyres in a video, and now he 1:09:46.560 --> 1:09:49.720 gets to be at Tyres and I've been to two duds. 1:09:50.000 --> 1:09:52.960 Well, he is my spirit guide and later on in 1:09:53.000 --> 1:09:55.280 my life when I was at a very very low point, 1:09:55.600 --> 1:09:59.000 Tyreese brought Eddie Lavert in and put me at a 1:09:59.000 --> 1:10:03.080 dinner to get my head screwed back on straight with 1:10:03.120 --> 1:10:06.040 my my spirit guy. Tyres is my spirit guide and 1:10:06.080 --> 1:10:08.960 my friend. I love him for that and I always will. 1:10:09.120 --> 1:10:13.040 We've never made music together, but you know, gentleman, were 1:10:13.160 --> 1:10:16.400 gentleman together. Yeah, Like he's the truth and he's a 1:10:16.520 --> 1:10:20.720 very underrated for everything he's done. He's a magnificent talent, absolutely, 1:10:20.880 --> 1:10:24.439 so with regards to Keisha. Like so, this was in 1:10:24.439 --> 1:10:26.160 the meantime I was working on Maya. I did the 1:10:26.160 --> 1:10:28.360 album mood Ring with her and we had My Love 1:10:28.439 --> 1:10:32.080 is like Whoe and Maya was, you know, really holding 1:10:32.080 --> 1:10:36.240 her own in a lot of ways. Around that time, 1:10:37.160 --> 1:10:39.760 Keisha was really showing up late to a lot of 1:10:39.800 --> 1:10:43.560 stuff and just kind of messing up and and it 1:10:43.760 --> 1:10:46.920 was a little bit of a train wreck. So my 1:10:46.960 --> 1:10:52.120 buddies Reggie, Reggie Hudlin and Byron Phillips, yeah BT. 1:10:51.960 --> 1:10:54.360 At the time it took over bet my sister was there. 1:10:54.439 --> 1:10:56.839 Oh cool y Yeah, my sister wasn't executive a BT. 1:10:57.160 --> 1:11:00.200 And so I had the idea that instead of doing 1:11:00.240 --> 1:11:02.479 another music video for three hundred grand is what we 1:11:02.560 --> 1:11:04.479 used to spend, that we could do a TV show 1:11:04.640 --> 1:11:07.040 and show the train wreck and like that that would 1:11:07.080 --> 1:11:11.840 be the thing that Keisha's honest way that she walked 1:11:11.840 --> 1:11:16.040 through life would be great TV. And Jimmy said, if 1:11:16.040 --> 1:11:19.559 you can get them to match, I'll put up some 1:11:19.640 --> 1:11:21.120 of the money, but you got to get them to match. 1:11:22.160 --> 1:11:25.519 So Manny Haley and Keisha Cole and I went into 1:11:25.640 --> 1:11:28.160 be Et in New York and Reggie and Byron had 1:11:28.200 --> 1:11:30.880 like they had just started, and they had a card table, 1:11:31.439 --> 1:11:34.320 like a collapsible card table, and folding chairs and a 1:11:34.360 --> 1:11:38.200 blank white erase board with a marker with nothing on it, 1:11:39.080 --> 1:11:41.800 and they were planning the network right then and there. 1:11:42.520 --> 1:11:45.200 And I said, let's do a reality show on Keisha 1:11:45.320 --> 1:11:49.200 and they said yes, and Jimmy honored it and we 1:11:49.640 --> 1:11:51.759 ended up with a giant hit TV show. 1:11:51.840 --> 1:11:54.559 Absolutely, James the boasted that he did. 1:11:55.200 --> 1:11:57.600 You know, all of it is God's blessing because we 1:11:57.720 --> 1:12:00.680 just kept trying shit and I had the and I 1:12:00.720 --> 1:12:04.360 had the backing of the corporation and a boss who 1:12:04.960 --> 1:12:09.519 who believed in my insanity. So around this time, working 1:12:09.560 --> 1:12:13.679 with Maya, we had done a flip of the far Side, 1:12:13.840 --> 1:12:18.599 Can't Keep running Away. It's like a record that got away. 1:12:18.640 --> 1:12:23.160 That's a magnificent song. You know that record, Can't Keep 1:12:23.240 --> 1:12:26.320 running Away? Okay, So Maya does a version of it, 1:12:26.560 --> 1:12:29.919 and it's got all my trademark stuff, crazy background vocals, 1:12:29.920 --> 1:12:32.960 big strings. Maya sounds like a million bucks. And I 1:12:33.000 --> 1:12:35.120 got a call out of the blue from Mary J. 1:12:35.240 --> 1:12:37.360 Blige I thought it was a pray, like, why is 1:12:37.360 --> 1:12:39.360 Mary J Blige calling me? Because Mary was on Geffen 1:12:39.479 --> 1:12:41.400 Keisha was on A and M, which was my unit. 1:12:42.640 --> 1:12:46.080 But Mary calls up and says, this maya shit is crazy? 1:12:46.320 --> 1:12:48.599 You did this? Yeah, thank you so much. It's great 1:12:48.640 --> 1:12:51.200 to talk to you, and and and she was a 1:12:51.240 --> 1:12:56.040 fan of the song. So later on down the road, 1:12:56.080 --> 1:12:58.360 Mary had turned in an album that had the very 1:12:58.400 --> 1:13:01.320 first version of Be Without You on it. Okay, and 1:13:01.800 --> 1:13:05.679 a guy basically a guy who who was a marketing 1:13:05.680 --> 1:13:07.840 guy who was Mary's marketing guy and named Paul Kremen 1:13:08.320 --> 1:13:11.000 and step Johnson sent me that first version of B 1:13:11.160 --> 1:13:14.360 Without You and said, you know, what do you think? 1:13:14.720 --> 1:13:17.479 And I said, it's not my problem. I'm A and M. 1:13:17.520 --> 1:13:19.959 You guys are Keeffen right, Like, this isn't my problem. 1:13:20.000 --> 1:13:22.360 Like I don't know what you what do you? Why 1:13:22.360 --> 1:13:24.160 do you? Why you asking me what I think when 1:13:24.720 --> 1:13:28.240 I mean it doesn't matter, like Mary's signed to you guys. 1:13:28.600 --> 1:13:33.320 I don't know what to say. Then Jimmy called and said, 1:13:33.560 --> 1:13:35.680 I don't care what you think. You you work for 1:13:35.840 --> 1:13:38.280 you work for me. Tell them what what do you 1:13:38.320 --> 1:13:40.160 think of the song? So I now I analyzed the 1:13:40.200 --> 1:13:41.920 song and it was like, Okay, there's some flaws here. 1:13:42.040 --> 1:13:44.320 The harmony in the chorus like it. Basically, the song's 1:13:44.360 --> 1:13:46.200 a G minor, so you have G, B, flatt and D. 1:13:46.320 --> 1:13:48.360 Those are the three notes that make the three part harmony. 1:13:48.640 --> 1:13:51.439 She's singing in C minor. Okay, she's singing the wrong 1:13:51.840 --> 1:13:55.040 chord change on the hook. She's singing him great, but 1:13:55.120 --> 1:13:59.000 that's not right. Yeah, So there was some other problems 1:13:59.040 --> 1:14:02.759 with it. So the next thing that happened was Jimmy 1:14:03.120 --> 1:14:05.400 called me back and he said, we're going to do 1:14:05.439 --> 1:14:10.040 Mary J. Blige's greatest hits. It's the it's the fourth 1:14:10.120 --> 1:14:11.320 quarter big record. 1:14:11.640 --> 1:14:12.200 We need it. 1:14:12.920 --> 1:14:14.400 You need to get in the studio with Mary and 1:14:14.439 --> 1:14:17.280 fix the song. So I went to New York and 1:14:17.320 --> 1:14:21.040 Mary showed up and it was a love fest and 1:14:21.120 --> 1:14:25.200 she showed me so much respect, and we did all 1:14:25.200 --> 1:14:28.160 the background vocals, all the lead vocals, and it came 1:14:28.200 --> 1:14:30.240 to life in front of my eyes and the whole time, 1:14:30.320 --> 1:14:33.559 what do you think I'm channeling the OJS? And there's 1:14:33.600 --> 1:14:35.880 Mary J Blige, you know, the singer of No More 1:14:35.960 --> 1:14:40.360 Drama and Family. Yes, And I had already made ten 1:14:40.400 --> 1:14:43.040 records with Keisha and Maya and like, and I had 1:14:43.080 --> 1:14:45.160 worked with Natalie Cole, like, this is Mary J Blige, 1:14:45.200 --> 1:14:46.519 this is fucking Elvis, right. 1:14:46.400 --> 1:14:48.000 This is this? Is it? Absolutely? 1:14:48.520 --> 1:14:52.600 And then I put a string arrangement on it and 1:14:52.640 --> 1:14:59.360 then Dave mixed it and everybody heard it. And then 1:14:59.439 --> 1:15:02.559 Jimmy said, it's not gonna be a greatest hits album. 1:15:02.760 --> 1:15:05.200 I need you to go through the whole album is 1:15:05.240 --> 1:15:09.800 shifted and fix it all in a month. And it 1:15:09.840 --> 1:15:13.080 was like it was like September and it's December is 1:15:13.120 --> 1:15:13.760 the release date? 1:15:13.880 --> 1:15:13.960 Right? 1:15:14.040 --> 1:15:17.080 By the way, here's this track of you two from 1:15:17.080 --> 1:15:19.640 a sound check. She can sing a duet of the 1:15:19.680 --> 1:15:23.640 song one Love put her on that and finish that, 1:15:24.400 --> 1:15:26.960 which became her first number one in England. 1:15:27.000 --> 1:15:29.280 And I'm sure you have as an executive, you have 1:15:29.360 --> 1:15:30.920 your things at A and M that you're still trying 1:15:30.920 --> 1:15:31.559 to finish as well. 1:15:31.640 --> 1:15:31.800 Yeah. 1:15:31.880 --> 1:15:36.080 Yeah, but but Mary took over my life and rightfully so, 1:15:37.000 --> 1:15:39.559 and every I learned so much from her because she 1:15:39.640 --> 1:15:41.200 used to say, like, it's all about what I'm talking about. 1:15:41.240 --> 1:15:43.680 It's all about what I'm talking about. It's like, what 1:15:43.439 --> 1:15:45.760 what what does that mean? It's all about what I'm 1:15:45.760 --> 1:15:49.720 talking It's like the words ron the words, that's what 1:15:49.760 --> 1:15:51.720 they're hearing, that's what they want to hear from me, 1:15:51.800 --> 1:15:56.040 what I'm talking about, all that other shit you're doing cool, 1:15:57.120 --> 1:15:59.960 And it was like, oh, I'm learning to see it 1:16:00.080 --> 1:16:04.200 through her eyes and to frame the vocal in a 1:16:04.200 --> 1:16:06.960 way that the message. So then it became can't keep 1:16:06.960 --> 1:16:09.839 a good woman down. Take me as I am enough crying, 1:16:11.160 --> 1:16:12.800 Take me as I am, Take me as I am 1:16:12.840 --> 1:16:14.880 as genius. So so let me tell you a little 1:16:14.880 --> 1:16:17.360 bit the story of that. So Erica Grayson used to 1:16:17.400 --> 1:16:20.599 do A and R for me. She found that song 1:16:20.640 --> 1:16:20.920 and it. 1:16:20.920 --> 1:16:26.760 Was if I yeah, Zeke Lewis, Yeah, who now he's 1:16:26.840 --> 1:16:30.439 running the table the label mohammed Yeah yeah. 1:16:30.920 --> 1:16:34.200 And so so she plays me the song and it's 1:16:34.240 --> 1:16:36.439 like the album is done. This is the album's rap, 1:16:36.520 --> 1:16:39.439 Like we're mastered. Where Mary's like in a limo somewhere 1:16:39.800 --> 1:16:41.840 going to an event in a in a gown. 1:16:43.120 --> 1:16:43.960 She hears the record. 1:16:44.439 --> 1:16:47.280 She literally turns the limo around and meets me in 1:16:47.360 --> 1:16:49.799 the studio in New York City and sings the record 1:16:49.800 --> 1:16:50.240 that night. 1:16:50.520 --> 1:16:52.519 Yeah, that's hype of record urgency. 1:16:52.600 --> 1:16:56.600 And again it's all about what I'm talking about, Like 1:16:56.720 --> 1:16:58.960 her words are burning in my head? And what is 1:16:59.000 --> 1:17:01.760 she saying on that song? Take me as I am 1:17:01.920 --> 1:17:06.960 or nothing, anything at all. It's like, Wow, this is 1:17:07.000 --> 1:17:10.240 what her audience wants to say to the people in 1:17:10.280 --> 1:17:13.200 their life, right, Take me as I am or nothing 1:17:13.240 --> 1:17:17.920 at all. So the whole framing of it, of the 1:17:18.040 --> 1:17:19.400 R and B and the community and by the way, 1:17:19.400 --> 1:17:21.519 songs can be dumb, they can be fun, they can 1:17:21.560 --> 1:17:23.400 be you know, woo there. It is like it doesn't matter. 1:17:23.640 --> 1:17:27.000 But the communication element of like what are we talking about? 1:17:27.280 --> 1:17:28.920 And then what is the music? What is the beat? 1:17:28.960 --> 1:17:31.479 What is the harmony? What is the whole thing? That's 1:17:31.600 --> 1:17:37.600 like that alchemy is everything to me, you know. And 1:17:37.640 --> 1:17:42.280 so I'm still at age seventy one, that same exact guy. Yeah, 1:17:42.760 --> 1:17:46.840 but in a changed landscape where things like TikTok can 1:17:46.880 --> 1:17:53.040 confuse the industry with believing that clicks and views. 1:17:53.200 --> 1:17:56.040 Means mean connection mean everything more so because they do 1:17:56.120 --> 1:17:58.320 mean something, they don't mean something. But I think it's 1:17:58.320 --> 1:18:00.040 one of those things where and I've said in a 1:18:00.160 --> 1:18:04.480 meetings and I've had those conversations where it becomes everything 1:18:04.680 --> 1:18:06.160 and it's that's not everything. 1:18:06.520 --> 1:18:08.040 Well, I sound like a hater because you know, I'm 1:18:08.040 --> 1:18:09.360 an old guy, and it came from a different period 1:18:09.400 --> 1:18:10.920 where it was just the music, music and the music. 1:18:11.240 --> 1:18:15.120 But it's a component, yes, And I'll tell you going 1:18:15.200 --> 1:18:17.960 forward in my life, and I hope to do so 1:18:18.040 --> 1:18:21.400 much more. I don't want to be defined by the 1:18:21.680 --> 1:18:24.000 wonderful things I was able to accomplish. Like you know, 1:18:24.080 --> 1:18:26.400 Vanessa Carlton's record is still so huge, but like that 1:18:26.439 --> 1:18:28.599 can't be my epitaph, Jay, that just can't be it. 1:18:28.840 --> 1:18:33.719 There has to be more chapters. But that same kid 1:18:33.720 --> 1:18:36.679 that I was, that was given that record by Bill 1:18:36.720 --> 1:18:39.000 Conti in front of his friends at age twenty two, 1:18:39.479 --> 1:18:41.759 this is who I am now. I'm just smarter and wiser. 1:18:41.840 --> 1:18:46.800 And the elements of the game make me think that 1:18:46.880 --> 1:18:48.720 the business that we're in today. 1:18:48.640 --> 1:18:49.960 Is not the music business. 1:18:50.360 --> 1:18:54.280 It's the star business, and that the people that are 1:18:54.400 --> 1:19:03.439 the the brightest lights. Ray Brunemar's, John Legend, Morgan Wallen, 1:19:03.720 --> 1:19:08.639 Jelly Roll, Money Long, name any of them, they're stars. Yeah, 1:19:09.479 --> 1:19:11.720 and the and the music and what we do, what 1:19:11.760 --> 1:19:14.880 I do is the fuel. It's the jet fuel. But 1:19:14.960 --> 1:19:19.120 you don't fly the fuel. You fly the plane, and 1:19:19.160 --> 1:19:24.240 the plane is the star. So Okay, what's next for you? 1:19:24.560 --> 1:19:29.160 And how do you see it in this phase? Truthfully, 1:19:29.200 --> 1:19:32.640 I don't have a snappy answer to that. I just 1:19:32.760 --> 1:19:36.680 hope that what's next for me is more. Yeah, you know, 1:19:36.720 --> 1:19:40.400 because my appetite, the thrill that comes from like the 1:19:40.439 --> 1:19:44.559 three part harmony or the dope rub in the in 1:19:44.600 --> 1:19:47.880 the background vocal or whatever, that same thrill that I get, 1:19:48.000 --> 1:19:52.400 it's like a drug. I gotta have more. So, you know, 1:19:52.479 --> 1:19:55.120 whether it's being able to be lucky enough to continue 1:19:55.120 --> 1:19:57.599 to work with some of the great artists I've worked with, 1:19:57.720 --> 1:20:01.000 or or find that next girl with a tear in 1:20:01.040 --> 1:20:05.160 her voice and an authentic thing that you know, I 1:20:05.160 --> 1:20:10.400 can bring my skills to help an artist elevate and 1:20:10.880 --> 1:20:13.400 learn to see through their eyes. Like it's still a 1:20:13.400 --> 1:20:18.160 fucking thrill, man. So I hope to die in the gig. 1:20:20.520 --> 1:20:22.960 That would be the perfect fitting at the perfect ending 1:20:22.960 --> 1:20:25.639 for me, Like saying on talkback, let's try that again 1:20:26.320 --> 1:20:28.000 this time a little bit acting out a little bit more, 1:20:30.680 --> 1:20:31.439 that would be the. 1:20:31.400 --> 1:20:34.559 Perfect Now, you're a real music guy, and that is 1:20:34.600 --> 1:20:39.120 to be honored and respected. From our beginning of our 1:20:39.160 --> 1:20:42.559 conversation when I told you, like, it's real admiration for 1:20:42.640 --> 1:20:45.000 what you've done and what you're doing, you. 1:20:44.920 --> 1:20:47.360 Know what I mean. And because it's for me. 1:20:47.920 --> 1:20:50.719 I light up when I sit with people like yourself, 1:20:51.160 --> 1:20:54.000 because I know it's from a pure place. This isn't 1:20:54.040 --> 1:20:57.160 about anything else for you but the music. And that's 1:20:57.280 --> 1:20:57.839 very important. 1:20:57.960 --> 1:20:59.519 You know. I was able to combine it with the 1:20:59.520 --> 1:21:05.040 corporate enrichment and and and and you definitely got all that, 1:21:05.280 --> 1:21:09.280 all that along the along the way, and and but 1:21:09.320 --> 1:21:11.559 it's changed now. You know, I'm a father, I've got 1:21:11.560 --> 1:21:13.759 four children. They're they're they're going off to college. 1:21:14.600 --> 1:21:24.760 Uh, it's different. You know. 1:21:24.800 --> 1:21:28.840 Recently, I I was able to somebody will I Am 1:21:28.920 --> 1:21:34.040 spoke at an AI conference and and gave me a 1:21:34.040 --> 1:21:36.639 lot of credit for what happened with the Black Eyed Peas, 1:21:36.680 --> 1:21:39.519 which was basically happened. I mean, I stumbled into that, Dave, 1:21:39.560 --> 1:21:40.920 And so to introduce me to will I Am. 1:21:40.960 --> 1:21:42.599 You do a lot of stuff. 1:21:42.800 --> 1:21:46.640 You keep yourself open, You come in with no preconceived 1:21:46.680 --> 1:21:49.759 notion like something great could happen today, Like you just 1:21:49.760 --> 1:21:51.840 just show up and have your your. 1:21:51.680 --> 1:21:53.120 Brain open and listen. 1:21:54.400 --> 1:21:57.800 And Uh, anyway, Dave introduced me to will I played 1:21:57.840 --> 1:21:59.960 vibraphone on a record. Like before Fergi was in the 1:22:00.040 --> 1:22:01.680 and it ended up with me being the an R 1:22:01.760 --> 1:22:03.680 guy for the Black Eyed Peas and Forgie joining in 1:22:03.720 --> 1:22:05.600 the group and where is the Love and adding the 1:22:05.600 --> 1:22:08.760 strings to it and making records with will you Know 1:22:09.760 --> 1:22:12.639 the But the master stroke of the Black Eyed Peas 1:22:12.720 --> 1:22:15.400 story is not the records that we made, which are wonderful, 1:22:16.360 --> 1:22:20.639 It was learning the value of counter intuition as a human. 1:22:21.840 --> 1:22:24.920 So when you're when you're dealing with this decision making, 1:22:25.000 --> 1:22:28.000 like a musical situation or any situation in life, and 1:22:28.040 --> 1:22:29.439 your your brain is a what would I do? 1:22:29.479 --> 1:22:29.840 What would I do? 1:22:29.920 --> 1:22:30.719 What's what's the solution? 1:22:30.760 --> 1:22:31.320 What's the solution? 1:22:31.479 --> 1:22:31.960 What would I do? 1:22:32.000 --> 1:22:33.080 How do I handle? What would I do? 1:22:33.560 --> 1:22:36.160 That's only half the picture. The other half is what 1:22:36.160 --> 1:22:38.720 wouldn't I do? What doesn't make sense? What am I 1:22:38.720 --> 1:22:41.120 going to avoid? So when it came to the Black 1:22:41.160 --> 1:22:44.880 Eyed Peas on the tour that broke the song, which 1:22:44.960 --> 1:22:48.880 was justin Timberlake, Christina Aguilera and the Black Eyed Peas, 1:22:49.080 --> 1:22:50.479 I was able to get them on the tour because 1:22:50.479 --> 1:22:54.040 of my relationship with Christina and her manager, But it 1:22:54.120 --> 1:22:57.080 was too late to print the name the Black Eyed 1:22:57.080 --> 1:22:59.320 Peas on the ticket or any of the promotional materials 1:23:00.080 --> 1:23:02.000 too late and it was going to cost a lot 1:23:02.040 --> 1:23:04.720 of money to do the tour, and Irving as Off, 1:23:04.840 --> 1:23:08.080 Christina's manager at the time, said, are you sure Ron 1:23:08.160 --> 1:23:10.800 that you want to do this knowing that you're not 1:23:10.840 --> 1:23:13.240 going to have any mention at all of the Black 1:23:13.240 --> 1:23:16.400 Eyed Peas at all as the opening act. And I 1:23:16.560 --> 1:23:21.000 thought to myself, Fuck, yeah, I'm sure because I knew. 1:23:21.360 --> 1:23:23.320 I knew that if it said justin to Lake Christina 1:23:23.320 --> 1:23:25.880 Aguilier are Black Eyed Peas eight o'clock, people are shown 1:23:25.920 --> 1:23:28.080 up at nine. No one wants to see the opener. 1:23:28.080 --> 1:23:31.680 They haven't heard, so's because of time thinking it's not opening. 1:23:31.520 --> 1:23:36.120 Exactly so because their name wasn't on the ticket at 1:23:36.160 --> 1:23:38.800 eight o'clock, thinking Christina was going to go on, the 1:23:38.840 --> 1:23:42.160 Black Eyed Peas went on and I and we had 1:23:42.160 --> 1:23:45.520 an understanding, me and will do Where's the Love last? 1:23:45.680 --> 1:23:47.600 Because we've got to make sure the most people that 1:23:47.680 --> 1:23:49.880 could possibly show up are there to hear the song. 1:23:50.080 --> 1:23:54.599 So I was building on radio, building on radio. It worked, 1:23:55.040 --> 1:23:57.320 and then because it was a giant hit that Justin 1:23:57.400 --> 1:24:01.360 co wrote, he brought them back out in his set 1:24:01.479 --> 1:24:04.120 at nine thirty again. So the intrusion of my friends, 1:24:04.600 --> 1:24:07.120 the Black Eyed Peas, and they came out people killing 1:24:07.240 --> 1:24:09.880 people dying, Yeah, and Justin sang it with them and 1:24:09.920 --> 1:24:12.479 we broke the group. And it was because their name 1:24:12.600 --> 1:24:14.839 was well the song was a hit, yeah, but because 1:24:14.920 --> 1:24:18.280 of the idea that that what wouldn't I do could 1:24:18.320 --> 1:24:22.360 be part of the reasoning changed my life to examine 1:24:22.840 --> 1:24:26.120 decision making prismatically, like the prism that you hold up 1:24:26.160 --> 1:24:30.360 to the light and it shows the rainbow that that's 1:24:30.400 --> 1:24:32.519 a part of the that's a part of the thought process, 1:24:32.520 --> 1:24:36.559 and it's a synapse. It's not just a contrivance. It's 1:24:36.600 --> 1:24:40.320 like a synapse, like a reflex. So it's always baked 1:24:40.320 --> 1:24:42.960 into me after that, like to just make sure I 1:24:43.000 --> 1:24:44.160 police myself, like, Okay. 1:24:44.000 --> 1:24:44.880 What would I do? What am I gonna do? 1:24:44.920 --> 1:24:46.000 When I going to one not gonna do? 1:24:46.720 --> 1:24:48.280 And weave it in and weave it in. 1:24:48.920 --> 1:24:53.360 Man, listen, your story or the journey is incredible, and 1:24:53.439 --> 1:24:57.000 it is you really gave a masterclass today of what 1:24:57.120 --> 1:24:59.000 it is to be a real music man. 1:24:59.520 --> 1:25:01.280 To be a producer. 1:25:02.280 --> 1:25:04.479 Like that is very important because you know, obviously we 1:25:04.560 --> 1:25:08.440 have these conversations about the beat maker and the producer 1:25:08.560 --> 1:25:10.840 and this that and the other, and people don't really 1:25:10.920 --> 1:25:16.120 know how to put them in proper context. I would suggest, 1:25:16.160 --> 1:25:19.320 if you are a young producer, are aspiring to be one, 1:25:19.960 --> 1:25:23.160 you really watched this episode and really because the things 1:25:23.200 --> 1:25:26.799 you talked about from your placement, how the things you 1:25:26.840 --> 1:25:29.920 put in place that the people you got involved. 1:25:30.479 --> 1:25:34.080 So the of course I knew it instinctively because again, 1:25:34.200 --> 1:25:37.160 like the OJ's really started the ball rolling for but 1:25:37.240 --> 1:25:39.479 I had made records before that. But the framing of 1:25:39.520 --> 1:25:42.000 the vocal and the idea of it's all about what 1:25:42.040 --> 1:25:46.360 I'm talking about, Like, that's the takeaway. It's my daughter 1:25:46.640 --> 1:25:48.960 who doesn't know who the artists are but. 1:25:48.920 --> 1:25:50.320 Knows every word of every story. 1:25:50.479 --> 1:25:53.599 Yeah, because it's that's what they're hearing nowt you gotta 1:25:53.600 --> 1:25:55.000 have a great beat, you gotta have a great make sure. 1:25:55.160 --> 1:25:57.439 All that sure part part of the deal what they're 1:25:57.439 --> 1:25:57.920 talking about. 1:25:58.000 --> 1:25:59.960 But what are you talking about? So like, if you 1:26:00.120 --> 1:26:02.439 were to go through my records and say, well, what 1:26:02.520 --> 1:26:04.920 is Ron fair sound? Like? I don't have a sound, 1:26:05.000 --> 1:26:07.240 but there's one thing in common. The vocals are all 1:26:07.439 --> 1:26:10.679 fucking slamming, they're loud, they're proud. Matter of fact, I 1:26:10.280 --> 1:26:14.120 did two jazz albums with Queen Latifa totally on. People 1:26:14.120 --> 1:26:17.200 don't even know She's like Sarah vaugh Dinah Washington. Queen 1:26:17.280 --> 1:26:22.000 Latifa is one of the great jazz singers on the planets. Okay, 1:26:22.320 --> 1:26:25.280 So I did the album called the Dana Owens Album 1:26:25.360 --> 1:26:27.640 and I did the album called Traveling Light. Both of 1:26:27.680 --> 1:26:31.160 them sold a million copies. Her version of poetry Man, 1:26:32.120 --> 1:26:34.240 her vocal is so damn loud on there, and it 1:26:34.280 --> 1:26:36.720 was glorious. I kept I thought like, yeah, like, you 1:26:36.720 --> 1:26:38.479 know what, it's so much louder than the track. But 1:26:38.920 --> 1:26:43.759 this is so great because this is everything, and it's 1:26:43.800 --> 1:26:46.360 something that follows in all my stuff. It's like the 1:26:46.479 --> 1:26:50.120 vocals are just they're everything and the music is good. 1:26:50.200 --> 1:26:53.599 But that's that's really the hallmark of them all. Whether 1:26:53.600 --> 1:26:56.040 it was a Dina Menzel or Darren Chris or Fergie 1:26:56.160 --> 1:26:58.080 or the new record I just did with Nicole or 1:26:59.320 --> 1:27:01.559 it's always the same thing. The vocal is the law 1:27:01.640 --> 1:27:03.960 and it's the whole message. I wanted to tell one 1:27:04.000 --> 1:27:07.840 funny story because I know that probably because of the 1:27:07.880 --> 1:27:11.280 movie White Chicks, the Vanessa Carlton record Thousand Miles, so 1:27:11.400 --> 1:27:14.400 it's so baked into everybody. Yeah, So when I had 1:27:14.400 --> 1:27:17.280 the demo of the song the big string parts. 1:27:17.320 --> 1:27:18.000 The down bow. 1:27:20.360 --> 1:27:24.880 That I orchestrated was originally a wah wah guitar on 1:27:25.000 --> 1:27:27.000 the demo working to walk at. 1:27:26.880 --> 1:27:29.719 You one yeah yeah yeah. 1:27:29.600 --> 1:27:32.960 Walk And so like the idea came from. Oh it 1:27:33.040 --> 1:27:36.479 was in the hole in the most elegant place. But 1:27:36.520 --> 1:27:41.360 I thought, let's dramatize this and and uh do it 1:27:41.400 --> 1:27:45.920 all on downbow. So it's twenty four strings all on, 1:27:46.120 --> 1:27:48.720 all on down bow doing the wah yeah. And that's 1:27:48.760 --> 1:27:49.479 how that came about. 1:27:52.200 --> 1:27:52.519 All right. 1:27:52.560 --> 1:27:54.080 So since I got you here, man, we got we 1:27:54.120 --> 1:27:56.720 got some special special parts of the show Man, and 1:27:56.760 --> 1:27:58.599 I you know, I want to get you involved in man, 1:27:59.000 --> 1:27:59.920 Tank said something. 1:27:59.760 --> 1:28:02.400 In for you? Oh really yeah, because we want we want, 1:28:02.400 --> 1:28:04.160 we want to know some things. So rude man, what's 1:28:04.240 --> 1:28:06.760 what you got for us? Man? Can we turn that? 1:28:06.960 --> 1:28:08.240 Harh farve? 1:28:09.439 --> 1:28:11.120 Yeah? 1:28:11.200 --> 1:28:12.400 Your top five? 1:28:14.960 --> 1:28:16.360 Top five? 1:28:19.320 --> 1:28:29.240 You are beasing us all and me songs. We got 1:28:29.320 --> 1:28:34.680 to know before you go there wrong this show. Everybody 1:28:34.800 --> 1:28:35.640 want they want to know. 1:28:39.600 --> 1:28:47.720 Yes, top f's hilarious. 1:28:50.960 --> 1:29:01.200 You top five, it's good. 1:29:02.560 --> 1:29:05.000 So first round. As a as a producer, you wouldn't 1:29:05.000 --> 1:29:05.960 have made him re sing that. 1:29:06.680 --> 1:29:11.960 I mean, that's that's joyful. Noise right there. I think 1:29:12.000 --> 1:29:13.600 that might have been the first time somebody called it 1:29:13.720 --> 1:29:14.439 joyful noise. 1:29:15.160 --> 1:29:18.200 So like take said, we want to know, uh, your 1:29:18.280 --> 1:29:22.080 top five R and B singers and R and B songs. 1:29:22.400 --> 1:29:23.519 So I don't know if I can put them in 1:29:23.600 --> 1:29:24.960 order and that I can limit it to five. 1:29:25.920 --> 1:29:28.160 I have to start. I don't want to say he's 1:29:28.160 --> 1:29:31.320 the number one sop, but I have to start my list. 1:29:31.479 --> 1:29:33.599 No order, no order to Bill Withers. 1:29:33.840 --> 1:29:38.000 Yes, let's just start with that. Okay, okay, okay, this 1:29:38.040 --> 1:29:43.120 guy with this acoustic guitar, the simplicity, the tonality, and 1:29:43.160 --> 1:29:47.960 then the masterpiece of just the two of us with 1:29:48.040 --> 1:29:50.960 those Stevie kind of changes Washington. So Bill Withers is 1:29:51.000 --> 1:29:58.960 like just like on top, he's incredible. I mean, it's 1:29:59.000 --> 1:30:04.040 a little hard to say because because of who I've 1:30:04.080 --> 1:30:06.640 worked with and it's more than R and B. But 1:30:06.680 --> 1:30:08.080 I would say Natalie. 1:30:07.760 --> 1:30:12.600 Cole, Yeah, yeah, I met Natalie Cole one time. She 1:30:12.720 --> 1:30:13.760 was so regal, like. 1:30:13.840 --> 1:30:15.800 Yeah, you know, I I got to work with her 1:30:15.840 --> 1:30:20.800 and she was in my life and again, like you know, 1:30:20.840 --> 1:30:22.880 the test of time can be cool whatever the Natalie 1:30:22.960 --> 1:30:28.120 Cole for sure. I mean, of course I've already talked 1:30:28.120 --> 1:30:32.439 about Eddie Lavert and Walt Williams together the OJS. Yeah, 1:30:32.840 --> 1:30:37.160 I mean I I don't know that I can personally 1:30:37.240 --> 1:30:40.880 get in well. I mean I can't do just five 1:30:41.160 --> 1:30:43.960 be Mary with Mary J. Blige of course, Keisha Cole 1:30:44.200 --> 1:30:47.120 Fantasia TLC. 1:30:47.840 --> 1:30:53.040 Okay, you know you have more, uh, because you had 1:30:53.080 --> 1:30:53.720 about top eight. 1:30:53.800 --> 1:30:58.960 Now, funny how it's mostly women. I mean, I got 1:30:58.960 --> 1:31:03.280 to give it up for Tyrese my spirit Guide and 1:31:03.360 --> 1:31:06.960 on the vintage tip. You know I think I've hit it. 1:31:07.000 --> 1:31:10.439 I don't right now. 1:31:10.479 --> 1:31:12.919 I always go I always go back to Bill Withers, 1:31:13.240 --> 1:31:15.599 by the way, you know, going through my life story, 1:31:15.600 --> 1:31:17.759 there's somebody that I didn't mention that I need to because, 1:31:18.000 --> 1:31:20.479 as I told you, step and Garnett were encouraging me 1:31:20.560 --> 1:31:23.560 to keep making these records. I actually signed l DeBarge 1:31:23.800 --> 1:31:26.040 and made an album with him called Second Chance that 1:31:26.120 --> 1:31:28.759 he got two Grammy nominations for. And I co produced 1:31:28.800 --> 1:31:30.920 a record with Mike City that Faith Evans and El 1:31:30.960 --> 1:31:33.760 DeBarge had a number one record with like stuff that 1:31:33.760 --> 1:31:35.400 that I did that you can't even understand, Like how 1:31:35.479 --> 1:31:37.840 did he fucking fall into all this stuff? I just 1:31:37.840 --> 1:31:41.840 followed my impulse But another guy who the whole time 1:31:41.920 --> 1:31:45.240 was telling me, don't matter whether you're white, Valley Jewett, 1:31:45.280 --> 1:31:47.120 none of that shit matters to keep doing it was 1:31:47.120 --> 1:31:51.200 Clarence Avante. And he was, you know, the wind beneath 1:31:51.320 --> 1:31:54.800 so many people's wings in the culture, you know, whether 1:31:54.840 --> 1:31:57.160 it's Jam and Lewis or La Red or whatever. The 1:31:57.200 --> 1:32:01.240 Clarence was was the was him. The guy was the godfather, 1:32:01.320 --> 1:32:03.840 like he literally was. And and I got to know 1:32:03.920 --> 1:32:05.600 him and love him, and he was like rotten. You know, 1:32:05.880 --> 1:32:07.559 I don't know what the fuck you're smoking, but this 1:32:07.800 --> 1:32:12.320 is that's good you're doing it. And uh and that meant. 1:32:12.200 --> 1:32:12.800 So much to me. 1:32:14.600 --> 1:32:18.880 And rest in peace. Absolutely one of the if we 1:32:18.880 --> 1:32:22.000 don't save the names, then they go poof into the ether. 1:32:22.600 --> 1:32:24.600 And at least from the standpoint of of of the 1:32:24.640 --> 1:32:27.880 people watching the show, and we mentioned the names, you know, 1:32:27.960 --> 1:32:28.719 to honor them. 1:32:29.040 --> 1:32:32.400 Absolutely. Yeah, all right. Top five R and B songs, 1:32:32.800 --> 1:32:33.640 Top five R and B. 1:32:33.680 --> 1:32:36.639 I've never been asked that before R and B songs. 1:32:37.880 --> 1:32:41.519 They ain't no stopping us now for sure. Yeah. Yeah, 1:32:41.640 --> 1:32:43.360 I found white Jam. 1:32:43.560 --> 1:32:46.120 Okay, I think we are family. I think that's more 1:32:46.160 --> 1:32:49.240 than R and B though, that's that's ubiquitous. 1:32:48.720 --> 1:32:51.040 But it's I'm holding it on to it, so I 1:32:51.080 --> 1:32:52.960 love that. Okay. I was. 1:32:54.960 --> 1:32:58.120 Scrolling last night and uh and there was some old 1:32:58.200 --> 1:33:01.519 Chic things that came up, and I just thought, I'm 1:33:01.520 --> 1:33:05.880 gonna study Bernard Edwards bass parts and make that the 1:33:05.920 --> 1:33:10.160 basis of songs like that guy another Rest in Peace. 1:33:10.240 --> 1:33:12.760 What a badass he was. Man, go listen to the 1:33:12.840 --> 1:33:19.240 baselines on on on Chic and it's like, oh my god, 1:33:19.479 --> 1:33:22.080 you know, and all of course, so definitely we are 1:33:22.080 --> 1:33:25.040 a family and and uh, ain't no stopping us. Now 1:33:26.280 --> 1:33:28.800 I've got to say backstabbers. 1:33:28.720 --> 1:33:32.400 Mm hmm. If they want to take your place. 1:33:32.600 --> 1:33:35.280 Honestly, I'm gonna go with it for once in my life. 1:33:35.600 --> 1:33:41.000 See touch Me in the Morning, Mmm, I mean there's 1:33:41.000 --> 1:33:44.799 gotta be Supremes and Smokey and all that stuff woven 1:33:44.840 --> 1:33:47.200 in because you know, as a kid in the sixties, 1:33:47.240 --> 1:33:50.559 like that's that was all filtering every day. But Touch 1:33:50.640 --> 1:33:53.439 Me in the Morning with the tempo change, you know, 1:33:53.960 --> 1:33:56.559 I mean, I don't know that artists like I'll tell 1:33:56.560 --> 1:33:58.080 you that my dream artist when you're ask him like, 1:33:58.120 --> 1:33:59.680 what what is your dream? What project do you want 1:33:59.680 --> 1:34:02.799 to do? Now? Lionel Richie, I want to make. 1:34:02.720 --> 1:34:05.520 This would make an amazing I told. 1:34:05.240 --> 1:34:07.759 His manager that I know what I wanted to be about. 1:34:08.080 --> 1:34:09.720 I want to be I know what that I want 1:34:09.720 --> 1:34:12.240 the album to be called based on an old movie title. 1:34:12.400 --> 1:34:15.840 Let no Man write my epitaph, Lionel. I'm waiting for 1:34:15.880 --> 1:34:19.080 you to call. Come on, let no man write my 1:34:19.160 --> 1:34:26.320 epitaph album. An album about legacy, about what we leave behind. 1:34:28.439 --> 1:34:32.200 It doesn't have to be morose, but an album from 1:34:32.200 --> 1:34:34.840 one of the greatest of all time. I mean all 1:34:34.920 --> 1:34:37.519 night long. I mean, some of these records that we 1:34:37.640 --> 1:34:41.840 call R and B are so much more, but they 1:34:41.840 --> 1:34:45.639 could they come from that, that's their origin. But Lionel, 1:34:45.720 --> 1:34:48.640 Richie man, if in your imagination, if you think of 1:34:48.680 --> 1:34:51.160 the one more to leave on the Earth, to leave 1:34:51.200 --> 1:34:56.200 the planet with, like the Artemis Moonshot Dark Side of 1:34:56.240 --> 1:35:01.719 the Moonship that we just saw, he's my mean project, rich. 1:35:01.800 --> 1:35:05.960 Yeah, I love that. Okay, So now we're we got 1:35:06.000 --> 1:35:10.280 a we got another part where you build your ultimate 1:35:10.640 --> 1:35:14.080 R and B singer right from from top to bottom. 1:35:14.080 --> 1:35:16.479 We called the Voltron where you take the you know, 1:35:16.640 --> 1:35:20.000 different different pieces from different artists, you put them together. 1:35:20.080 --> 1:35:25.400 You make this ultimate superhero R and B Superstar, and 1:35:25.760 --> 1:35:28.400 we start with we go from the vocals, who's the 1:35:28.439 --> 1:35:34.120 singer the stage performance? Who got the best performance? Uh 1:35:34.160 --> 1:35:36.800 the drip as you have on today? Who got the 1:35:36.840 --> 1:35:42.799 best styling? And who's the most passionate you put those together? 1:35:43.920 --> 1:35:45.720 Who are Okay, we're gonna start from the first time. 1:35:46.280 --> 1:35:50.280 Who's your singer? If you're putting together the super super 1:35:50.520 --> 1:35:50.840 R and. 1:35:50.800 --> 1:35:54.800 B singer Priscilla money Long you're putting money Long Di 1:35:54.920 --> 1:35:55.400 long shot. 1:35:55.680 --> 1:35:59.160 Yeah okay, okay, and you went you went to Priscilla too. 1:35:59.479 --> 1:36:01.759 You ain't start with the money on Priscilla. 1:36:01.880 --> 1:36:03.479 No, no, no, that girl is. 1:36:04.720 --> 1:36:08.800 Special the truth. I agree, I absolutely agree. Okay, So 1:36:08.840 --> 1:36:09.840 who got the performance? 1:36:10.040 --> 1:36:10.439 Mary? 1:36:10.760 --> 1:36:13.920 Mary's gets down on her knees and she grinds it 1:36:13.960 --> 1:36:16.960 out and she brings the audience with her down and 1:36:17.160 --> 1:36:21.080 lifts them up and can be humorous and joyful and 1:36:21.880 --> 1:36:27.720 pathetic and painful. That's why she's so huge. She is 1:36:27.800 --> 1:36:29.599 the megaphone for everybody's feelings. 1:36:29.840 --> 1:36:35.439 Yeah, you know, she's the megaphone for everybody's feelings. Absolutely, Okay. Now, 1:36:36.000 --> 1:36:38.679 who's gonna put on the fly ship? What's the artist 1:36:38.720 --> 1:36:39.160 gonna look like? 1:36:41.920 --> 1:36:44.320 Elegant elegant international. 1:36:44.520 --> 1:36:49.960 Yeah, the ponytail everlasting mm hmm, absolutely iconic. 1:36:50.320 --> 1:36:54.880 Yeah, man, she's another like just I mean, let us 1:36:55.000 --> 1:36:59.200 never forget her ever Yeah. And you know there's only 1:36:59.400 --> 1:37:01.960 it's such a unique thing like Weathers is unique, Like 1:37:02.000 --> 1:37:03.000 she's like unique. 1:37:02.720 --> 1:37:06.040 Like that absolutely Okay, Now, who has the passion that 1:37:06.080 --> 1:37:07.280 you want to put into this artist? 1:37:07.640 --> 1:37:11.519 Dasia sweating by song too? 1:37:11.680 --> 1:37:16.080 Maybe she's probably sweating and shoes off and yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:37:16.120 --> 1:37:16.479 I got you. 1:37:16.680 --> 1:37:21.000 And Tasa just goes through. She can connect her voice 1:37:21.479 --> 1:37:26.559 to the inner feelings and she I mean, I've seen 1:37:26.600 --> 1:37:27.639 her take the roof off. 1:37:27.680 --> 1:37:29.760 Shit, I made two records with her. 1:37:30.600 --> 1:37:36.160 Who is Ron Fair hiring to produce it? To produce 1:37:36.200 --> 1:37:38.479 this artist? What producer do you want? 1:37:39.640 --> 1:37:41.400 Jimmy and Terry wo. 1:37:43.280 --> 1:37:44.880 Ah? Yeah. 1:37:44.920 --> 1:37:46.880 Now the reason why, I mean, you know, like the 1:37:46.880 --> 1:37:48.599 more I think about, like I'm not on the spot 1:37:48.720 --> 1:37:53.000 like to pick songs like on Bended Knee is the 1:37:53.360 --> 1:37:57.959 Encyclopedia Britannica of kay agree that ship is so powerful. 1:37:58.320 --> 1:38:03.160 It's it's like classical music. So Jimmy and Terry were. 1:38:04.840 --> 1:38:06.080 I mean, did jim and Terry? 1:38:06.120 --> 1:38:13.160 Yeah, they're just like literally Godzilla and Mathra Monsters. 1:38:12.720 --> 1:38:14.360 Now they just made my day. The other day they 1:38:14.360 --> 1:38:16.400 shouted me out in the interview. I'm like, oh, this 1:38:16.439 --> 1:38:18.679 is great. I got shouted out by Jimmy and Terry. 1:38:18.720 --> 1:38:21.599 This is amazing. I've done it. 1:38:21.680 --> 1:38:22.280 I've done it. 1:38:22.520 --> 1:38:25.040 Okay, So I got one more segment for you before 1:38:25.080 --> 1:38:27.160 I let you go keep playing something. 1:38:27.400 --> 1:38:29.560 Well, let's add let's add one all before to the 1:38:29.600 --> 1:38:32.439 superstar R and b act. I mean, I didn't say Keisha, 1:38:32.479 --> 1:38:34.680 but she is my heart and she's my girl. And 1:38:34.720 --> 1:38:37.800 of course in her movie that we got made her. 1:38:37.720 --> 1:38:39.720 Biopick that she also is playing it. 1:38:39.760 --> 1:38:42.400 There's a guy playing rod Fair in the movie, only 1:38:42.439 --> 1:38:45.240 he's younger and more handsome, and they don't really tell 1:38:45.280 --> 1:38:48.080 the real story. But it's cool to have somebody playing 1:38:48.200 --> 1:38:51.240 you while you're still alive. So of course I got 1:38:51.320 --> 1:38:55.000 to imagine her. But Christina, of course has the Quincy 1:38:55.080 --> 1:38:58.000 Jones level of musical articulation. 1:38:58.240 --> 1:38:58.599 Like her. 1:38:59.439 --> 1:39:04.360 She is like like a fencing champion, like an Olympic 1:39:04.400 --> 1:39:08.519 sword fighter. When it comes to her chops. No, she's 1:39:08.520 --> 1:39:11.719 got chops above and beyond. 1:39:12.760 --> 1:39:16.880 Yeah, all right, okay, what we got. 1:39:20.800 --> 1:39:26.200 No n no name, no names name. 1:39:29.320 --> 1:39:30.080 What you did? 1:39:30.680 --> 1:39:44.519 Don't say? She I said he's got to do a 1:39:44.520 --> 1:39:46.680 whole act like that. I would love for him to 1:39:46.720 --> 1:39:48.559 do it. That'd be great, awesome. 1:39:49.040 --> 1:39:50.880 So we had a very important part of the show, 1:39:51.880 --> 1:39:54.439 Will you tell us a story? Funny or fucked up? 1:39:55.040 --> 1:39:57.800 Are funny and fucked up? The only rute to the 1:39:57.840 --> 1:40:00.640 game is Ron Fair can't say no no names. 1:40:00.920 --> 1:40:02.559 And then the audience guesses who it is. 1:40:02.760 --> 1:40:05.000 They always try, they always try. 1:40:05.479 --> 1:40:09.560 This person won a Grammy Award, Okay, a lot of 1:40:09.560 --> 1:40:12.559 people for Best New Artists, Okay, a lot of those. 1:40:12.840 --> 1:40:19.040 But this person did not think me. When the thank 1:40:19.080 --> 1:40:24.160 yous came forgot me. It was a terrible thing. It 1:40:24.200 --> 1:40:29.519 was a terrible thing to not be remembered on such 1:40:29.560 --> 1:40:33.679 an incredibly important moment, and it sent me into a deep, 1:40:33.720 --> 1:40:39.120 deep funk. The next day, I was called into a 1:40:39.160 --> 1:40:46.080 meeting because I felt so slighted at a lunch at 1:40:46.080 --> 1:40:49.040 the Four Seasons Hotel. It was like, we got to 1:40:49.080 --> 1:40:53.040 make this, we got to make this moment pass. So 1:40:53.120 --> 1:40:58.760 I went to the meeting all depressed, and when I 1:40:58.800 --> 1:41:01.400 got there, I was, oh, no, that's the restaurant there, 1:41:01.400 --> 1:41:03.240 but you got to go here, and I was ushered 1:41:03.280 --> 1:41:08.400 to a door. The door opened. It's not funny or 1:41:08.439 --> 1:41:11.760 fucked up, it's true. But when the door opened. There 1:41:11.840 --> 1:41:15.240 was an enormous surprise party one day after the Grammys 1:41:15.920 --> 1:41:18.400 for me with over one hundred people. 1:41:19.600 --> 1:41:20.080 Wow. 1:41:20.200 --> 1:41:22.879 And this person stood up in front of the party 1:41:23.200 --> 1:41:27.679 and said you will never be forgotten and made. 1:41:27.479 --> 1:41:34.720 It all right. Wow. Wow. It kind of started off 1:41:34.800 --> 1:41:35.360 like that, but. 1:41:35.520 --> 1:41:39.720 It wasn't funny. Yeah, you can't make that stuff up. 1:41:39.920 --> 1:41:42.360 The next day, next day there was a surprise party. 1:41:42.360 --> 1:41:45.640 They mobilized quick. But you know, speaking on it, like, 1:41:45.880 --> 1:41:47.760 not so much on the funnier fucked up tip, but 1:41:47.840 --> 1:41:51.760 about the Grammys and about awards, we tend to not 1:41:51.800 --> 1:41:55.200 remember who won last year for this or that. It's 1:41:55.200 --> 1:41:59.160 more about the celebration and the and the moment and 1:41:59.240 --> 1:42:06.000 the performance and it doesn't define you. Yeah, it's nice 1:42:06.040 --> 1:42:09.160 to win, but it's all good. 1:42:09.520 --> 1:42:10.280 But I don't remember. 1:42:10.360 --> 1:42:12.280 If I asked you, like what one what won for 1:42:12.479 --> 1:42:14.760 R and B Song of the Year last year, you 1:42:14.840 --> 1:42:18.040 might not remember. I certainly don't remember the year before. 1:42:19.360 --> 1:42:21.519 It starts to get blurry. Yeah, and in. 1:42:21.520 --> 1:42:25.479 Our busy world of media saturation. But so the thing 1:42:25.600 --> 1:42:27.680 the story about about the Grammys and not and not 1:42:27.720 --> 1:42:32.160 being recognized in the scheme of life. It's just one 1:42:32.160 --> 1:42:33.759 of those things. 1:42:34.479 --> 1:42:36.479 Well, listen, man, this is this is why. 1:42:36.439 --> 1:42:38.040 I don't know if it was funny or funnier. 1:42:38.120 --> 1:42:39.600 No, it was fucked up. It fucked up. 1:42:39.760 --> 1:42:41.960 It ended up, it turned out right, but it was 1:42:41.960 --> 1:42:44.040 fucked up. And that's why I say it could be 1:42:44.040 --> 1:42:46.000 either or in the beginning, it was definitely fucked up. 1:42:46.080 --> 1:42:47.559 Let me think, because I would feel a way about 1:42:47.600 --> 1:42:50.320 that if I'm watching the Grammys and I'm like, I 1:42:50.479 --> 1:42:52.439 was a big part of this, and damn, I can't 1:42:52.439 --> 1:42:53.280 even get a shout out. 1:42:53.320 --> 1:42:57.320 But it doesn't matter. It's funny because someone somebody. I've 1:42:57.360 --> 1:42:59.240 been like so lucky to have so many different mentors 1:42:59.280 --> 1:43:01.760 and people come through my life or whatever. And as 1:43:01.760 --> 1:43:03.920 a behind the scenes guy like I was never an artist. 1:43:03.960 --> 1:43:05.960 I was a shitty jazz piano player, like I didn't 1:43:06.000 --> 1:43:09.320 take the spotlight. And and I was very comfortable in that. 1:43:11.320 --> 1:43:14.759 You know, we're so passionate at the time, like living 1:43:14.800 --> 1:43:19.160 and dying on everything, Keisha. Literally my happiness was dependent 1:43:19.240 --> 1:43:24.800 on the outcome of a thing. But there they the 1:43:25.240 --> 1:43:28.720 eras come and go, and there's seasons and reasons, and 1:43:28.760 --> 1:43:32.120 there's another artist and another artist and another project and 1:43:32.160 --> 1:43:36.680 another song and another record, and we're still here absolutely 1:43:37.720 --> 1:43:41.320 so as long as I keep showing up and keep 1:43:41.360 --> 1:43:45.360 believing that this thing that didn't exist ten seconds ago 1:43:45.920 --> 1:43:49.360 is going to be something something. I'm doing a record 1:43:49.439 --> 1:43:55.000 right now. I'm doing the orchestration on Wednesday. That's probably 1:43:55.479 --> 1:43:59.400 just because of the way, you know, The Facts is 1:43:59.400 --> 1:44:02.760 probably going to be Dion Warwick's last record. She's in 1:44:02.800 --> 1:44:05.320 her mid eighties. And there's two duets that I'm working on, 1:44:05.320 --> 1:44:08.439 one coming and doing the show awesome. So one is 1:44:08.439 --> 1:44:11.840 with Teddy Swims and one is with John Legend. So 1:44:12.240 --> 1:44:13.840 you know, like, are they hits? 1:44:14.160 --> 1:44:14.720 I don't care. 1:44:15.200 --> 1:44:17.760 I don't care if they're fucking hits. Their culture and 1:44:17.800 --> 1:44:21.559 theirs and their and their art, and so I am 1:44:21.640 --> 1:44:25.439 throwing myself at these records, with all the technology, with 1:44:25.439 --> 1:44:27.960 all the musicality, with all the musicianship, with everything I have, 1:44:28.800 --> 1:44:30.920 if nothing else to just maybe get that phone call 1:44:30.960 --> 1:44:35.360 from John Legend to say, Ron this is dope. Yeah, 1:44:35.400 --> 1:44:38.360 and that will keep me going, you know, for another week, 1:44:39.400 --> 1:44:40.280 just because that's what we do. 1:44:40.320 --> 1:44:41.120 It's our oxygen. 1:44:41.479 --> 1:44:45.839 This this is all record making artists, songs, chord changes, 1:44:46.400 --> 1:44:51.920 it's nutrition, it's oxygen. We're dead without it, so I'll 1:44:51.960 --> 1:44:54.080 take it out that way, in my till my last breath, 1:44:54.080 --> 1:44:56.360 Like I said, hopefully, I'll die in the chair in 1:44:56.400 --> 1:44:59.519 the middle of a vocal overtub believing I'm making another 1:44:59.560 --> 1:45:02.639 significant and record. Man, Thank you, thank you for having 1:45:02.680 --> 1:45:05.840 me of course, sharing your audience with me, and and 1:45:06.120 --> 1:45:06.880 it means a lot to me. 1:45:06.880 --> 1:45:11.720 I appreciate it likewise, brother, Yeah, thank you. I'm Jay Valentine. 1:45:11.920 --> 1:45:16.720 This has been the amazing, the incredible round fair. It's 1:45:16.880 --> 1:45:18.920 R and B money and I see y'all next week.