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Speaker 1: R and B Money.

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Speaker 2: We are thanks take volatility.

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Speaker 1: We are the authority on all things R and B.

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Speaker 3: I'm Jay Valentine and this is the R and B

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Speaker 3: Money Podcast. You know what, I'm not about to go

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Speaker 3: through the whole thing. I'm just gonna say, let's get

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Speaker 3: it started. This interview right now. It's gonna change some things,

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Speaker 3: and we're about to talk about the way.

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Speaker 1: It is in this whole R and B thing.

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Speaker 3: I have a legend of all legends, one of the

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Speaker 3: greatest conductors of all time.

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Speaker 1: Mister Ron fair.

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Speaker 2: Roan.

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Speaker 1: How you doing, man, I'm good now. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me here, man. Thanks.

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Speaker 4: Enough's a great honor to be to be affiliated and

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Speaker 4: associated and to be here on the couch tonight.

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Speaker 1: Now, this is great man.

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Speaker 3: I you know, I've always admired your work, obviously, I'm

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Speaker 3: sure you saw it on the show like I And

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Speaker 3: I'm not one of those people. I'm not one of

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Speaker 3: these people like yeah, yeah, I really respect it. I

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Speaker 3: just won't speak on it. But if I got respect

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Speaker 3: for somebody and I and I you know, have admiration

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Speaker 3: for their work, I'm going to say that.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for saying that, Like I mean for me

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Speaker 4: to be here tonight and to talk through some of

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Speaker 4: the highlights of my career. It's I really didn't want

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Speaker 4: to make it like I did this and I did that,

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Speaker 4: and and you know, me, me, me and the floss.

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Speaker 1: So that's not what I'm here for. For me.

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Speaker 4: This is like therapy and it's a chance to in

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Speaker 4: some respects, to tell tell the stories and honor the

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Speaker 4: people that put me in the position and relive a

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Speaker 4: little bit of it. Yeah, and heal because because they're

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Speaker 4: you know, through the through the forty five years of

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Speaker 4: my major label career and the ups and downs of

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Speaker 4: showbiz that come with it. In the bitch slashing that

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Speaker 4: the universe can throw at you, you know, in between

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Speaker 4: the highs and the great lows, there's the story that

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Speaker 4: I wanted to tell. So I'm I'm hoping that we can,

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Speaker 4: you know, go a little deeper other than you know,

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Speaker 4: when I did this record with the baseline did I

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Speaker 4: don't think people give a shit.

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Speaker 3: What they do. I will say they do, but you know,

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Speaker 3: let's let's start. Let's start from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: Man. I know you from La.

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Speaker 4: I'm around La born and raised, and I came from

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Speaker 4: a kind of a theatrical family where you know, my

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Speaker 4: father was an opera singer, my mother was a pianist.

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Speaker 4: I there's something that would probably be the unknown that

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Speaker 4: was called the Yiddish theater, which was the a theatrical tradition,

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Speaker 4: like an entire thing with playwrights and shows and musicals

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Speaker 4: that existed in the Eastern European Jewish community. That was

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Speaker 4: basically the Jews from the Holocaust that were all wiped out.

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Speaker 4: So they had a they had a theater and literature

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Speaker 4: and and and in some in some respects movies and

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Speaker 4: radio and and that was my grandparents. So we are

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Speaker 4: we were a showbiz family.

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Speaker 1: Are the beginning The first.

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Speaker 4: Iteration of it was in a foreign language that isn't

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Speaker 4: spoken anymore on the planet, which is called Yiddish. But

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Speaker 4: some of the great expressions that we still have in English,

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Speaker 4: like schmuck and putts, yeah, sugar na, those are those

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Speaker 4: are all Yiddish words that have lasted the test of time.

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Speaker 4: But not to dwell on that, I will, I'd like

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Speaker 4: to go if it's okay to like, like, why am

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Speaker 4: I here? Like what was the real beginning point? So

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Speaker 4: I was, you know, I was a wedding singer. I

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Speaker 4: was a musician. I was a doing jingles, I was scrambling.

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Speaker 1: You were Adam Sandley.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I was real in real life, like these poor

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Speaker 4: people who who got married to me singing God God

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Speaker 4: bless them. But like the very first uh, I always

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Speaker 4: wanted to be a record producer, and I was looking

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Speaker 4: at record producers who were also label executives at the

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Speaker 4: same time. And there was a tradition of them, like

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Speaker 4: people like r If Martin or Jerry Wexler or or

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Speaker 4: Ted Templeman or Lenny Waronker, like there were guys who

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Speaker 4: were label executives and producers. And I thought, that's that's

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Speaker 4: where I want to go. And I I could engineer

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Speaker 4: a little bit, and I could play the piano a

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Speaker 4: little bit, and I could arrange a little bit. And

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Speaker 4: I stumbled into a situation in nineteen seventy seven. I'm

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Speaker 4: seventy one years old, so nineteen seventy seven to twenty

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Speaker 4: two year old me was working at a shitty studio

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Speaker 4: as a like a gopher and tape op and it

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Speaker 4: was called Hollywood Spectrum, and it was nowhere near Hollywood.

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Speaker 4: It was just this little shitty studio and people would

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Speaker 4: rent the studio for twenty dollars an hour. One of

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Speaker 4: the clients of and I would engineer and it was like,

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Speaker 4: you know, it was like an eight track studio and

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Speaker 4: we had primitive, rudimentary microphones and it was very, very,

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Speaker 4: very basic. But I learned how to engineer and make

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Speaker 4: things sound good. And one of those early clients was

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Speaker 4: a young film composer by the name of Bill Conti,

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Speaker 4: and so we did a session like some little movie

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Speaker 4: score thing whatever, and he took a liking to me,

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Speaker 4: and he like brought me home for dinner and we

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Speaker 4: started listening to jazz records. And I was very very

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Speaker 4: much a jazz jazz at this point, trying to play

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Speaker 4: jazz fusion and I could think unlimited, but my hands

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Speaker 4: as a pianist were very limited, so the jazz was

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Speaker 4: kind of off the table. If you can't play like

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Speaker 4: Bill Evans or Oscar Peterson, don't bother you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean. It was so the jazz thing, it was

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Speaker 4: like it was my passion and the harmonics of jazz

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Speaker 4: and the nutrition that comes from those those subdivisions of

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Speaker 4: those chords. That was where I was musically. So Bill

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Speaker 4: contienters my life and he says, to you know, Hey,

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Speaker 4: I've got I want you to come with me on

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Speaker 4: some of these movie score gigs. I have come over

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Speaker 4: to my house on Wednesday and we'll go over the score.

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Speaker 1: And on Thursday at three o'clock we're going.

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Speaker 4: To go record this movie score. Is like, so I

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Speaker 4: go over on Wednesday. It's like, okay, bar forty five,

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Speaker 4: turn the harp mic on. Make sure the engineer turns

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Speaker 4: the harp mic on because the harp is next to

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Speaker 4: the trumpets and the trumpets are going to leak onto

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Speaker 4: the harp. And so the session was on the Thursday

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Speaker 4: at three o'clock in Hollywood, and it was Rocky. It

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Speaker 4: was it was the original score of Rocky with Stallone

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Speaker 4: and the director John Ablson and everybody in the room,

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Speaker 4: and it was gonna fly now and.

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Speaker 1: Bah blah blah blah blah blah blah Smith from Rocky.

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Speaker 4: I was bro I was in the room for the

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Speaker 4: entire recording, every single note that was recorded. I was

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Speaker 4: standing next to Bill Conty in the room with the orchestra. Now,

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Speaker 4: none of us knew, and I was the assistant. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: none of us knew, including Bill, who were still we're

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Speaker 4: still friends to this day. He is he is my mentor,

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Speaker 4: and he is my lighthouse and my brother and my

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Speaker 4: father and my everything and a burning jazz piano player.

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Speaker 4: And literally nobody knew that Rocky and Stallone were going

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Speaker 4: to take over the world and that it was going

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Speaker 4: to change civilization, and that that music would to this day,

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Speaker 4: fifty years later, would have this enduring quality in this

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Speaker 4: when he ran up the steps, yeah went the distance

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Speaker 4: like people screaming in the theaters, and you know the

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Speaker 4: whole thing that happened.

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Speaker 1: And then the.

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Speaker 4: Instrumental of Gonna Fly Now with the vocals on the hook.

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Speaker 1: Who's singing it?

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Speaker 4: It's it was Bill's wife at the time, Shelby uh

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Speaker 4: dieta little Nelson Pigford, probably Salon's brother.

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Speaker 1: It was like a little background group like in the boot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you guys are here stronger. It was like like, wasn't

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Speaker 1: high budget shiit?

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Speaker 4: So so the record, the single comes out and the

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Speaker 4: origin from the from the and then the whole thing

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Speaker 4: was done, recorded, mixed, leader finished in three hours. It

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Speaker 4: was a movie score date, and we did the cue

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Speaker 4: of Gonna Fly Now for the picture can Bill conducting

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Speaker 4: to the picture, and then we did the record version.

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Speaker 4: The longer version. So the longer version comes out on

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Speaker 4: United Artists. It's is forty five and the ship goes

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Speaker 4: to number one, and every marching band on the planet

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Speaker 4: plays that song today. We have a lot to talk

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Speaker 4: about tonight, but just starting at the beginning.

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Speaker 3: So this is like your first I'm twenty two years

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Speaker 3: old into the music business period.

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Speaker 1: Well you know, I mean from I.

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Speaker 4: Like literally wedding singer Jingles. Yeah, like it was a

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Speaker 4: movie score that was like I'd done a lot of

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Speaker 4: stuff with Bill. I was around for a lot of

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Speaker 4: his stuff. Yeah, he you know, it was like a gig,

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Speaker 4: like twenty bucks an hour, and you know, like, hey, Bill,

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Speaker 4: you need me, If you need your briefcase.

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Speaker 1: Let me run to the car and get it for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you do.

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Speaker 4: So, so time passes, a little bit of time passes.

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Speaker 4: This whole thing blows up. Bill is recognized, as you know,

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Speaker 4: he went on to conduct the Academy Awards seventeen years

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Speaker 4: won the Oscar not for Rocky he was nominated, but

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Speaker 4: he won it for the next year for the right stuff.

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Speaker 4: But anyway, so Bill shows up at my studio. Now

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Speaker 4: I'm trying to be a jazz fusion artist and maybe

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Speaker 4: I'll send you some of the pictures. But and I

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Speaker 4: have a band and we're all like fucking stoned guys

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Speaker 4: pretending to be Chick Korea but suck. And Bill shows

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Speaker 4: up at the studio. It was called El Dorado. It's

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Speaker 4: at the parking lot now across from Capitol. It's from

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Speaker 4: the Capitol Tower. There was a building there with a

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Speaker 4: studio that's been demolished. He shows up with this thing

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Speaker 4: and he rips off the brown paper and he hands

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Speaker 4: me my first gold album for Rocky with my name

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Speaker 4: on it, a gold album, in front of my friends,

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Speaker 4: and he says, you got a minute, And he pulls

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Speaker 4: me aside and says, Ron, you're a half ass recording engineer.

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Speaker 4: You're a half ass arranger. You're less than a half

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Speaker 4: ass piano player. And this is why he's handing me

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Speaker 4: the gold record. But if you put it all together,

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Speaker 4: you're a producer. Wow, that's what you need to do.

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Speaker 4: Stop doing everything yourself and.

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Speaker 1: Get the people delegated. Yeah yeah, yeah, And I love this.

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Speaker 4: Guy, and I instead of being insulted, you know, you're

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Speaker 4: a half fast engineer, you're a half assed piano plet

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Speaker 4: you know, I realize, Oh, this is that moment and

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Speaker 4: I took that gold album. So at age twenty two,

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Speaker 4: with the gold album for Rocky, it gave me something

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Speaker 4: in my soul that allowed me to walk taller. And then,

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Speaker 4: wanting to be a producer, I cold, of course couldn't

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Speaker 4: get a job. I had no track record. All I

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Speaker 4: did is bullshit demos and failure tapes of my friends

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Speaker 4: that I recorded in that stupid studio. So I thought, hmm,

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Speaker 4: I'm really good at talking, I'm good with words, and

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Speaker 4: I look good in a suit. I should be a

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Speaker 4: record executive and then I'll hire myself to produce the records.

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Speaker 1: Oh this is great, yes, yes, So that was my plan.

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Speaker 4: So I went to Music Connection.

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Speaker 1: I started doing publishing demos.

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Speaker 4: There was a guy named Danny Strick who was a

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Speaker 4: young publishing executive and happened to be United Artists Music.

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Speaker 4: It's like, hey, wrong, come over here and do with

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Speaker 4: the demos. So I started doing publishing demos. And in

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Speaker 4: those days, a publishing demo was not something with a

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Speaker 4: sequencer and a laptop and a beat and you know,

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Speaker 4: a top line.

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Speaker 1: It was.

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Speaker 4: It was a band and a real singer. It was

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Speaker 4: all live and they had a little studio, and so

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Speaker 4: I started producing these demos and little by little, everything

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Speaker 4: I was producing was getting covered by all the artists

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Speaker 4: of the day, and I was starting to get a

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Speaker 4: track record. So I went to this local paper that

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Speaker 4: we still have today called Music Connection, and I said,

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Speaker 4: I'd like to write an article on the anatomy of

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Speaker 4: a song demo, and I will tell everybody what a

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Speaker 4: song demo should be because I've just done this and

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Speaker 4: this and this and this song gud cut and this

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Speaker 4: song gut cut. And they said, we love that idea,

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Speaker 4: and we'll pay you for the article twenty five dollars.

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Speaker 4: I said great. So I went around and I interviewed

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Speaker 4: A and R people said Hey, I'm Ron Fair, I'm

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Speaker 4: a correspondent for Music Connection, and i'd like to interview it.

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Speaker 4: You know, all the people in LA were like, sure,

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Speaker 4: I'll do an interview. And from that I met a

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Speaker 4: guy whose name was Barry Lander. He was at RCA

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Speaker 4: and he was an an R guy and I kind

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Speaker 4: of knew him, and he gave me the opportunity to

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Speaker 4: become an an R executive in nineteen eighty one at

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Speaker 4: RCA Records on Hollywood on Sunset Boulevard, and that was

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Speaker 4: the beginning of a forty five year NonStop ride through

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Speaker 4: the major labels that ended in my last position, which

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Speaker 4: was creative head of Virgin Records. But I made it

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Speaker 4: all the way to president of A and M and

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Speaker 4: chairman of Geffen and literally four and a half decades.

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Speaker 4: And during that time, that's when I ran the table

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Speaker 4: and started to hire myself to produce records.

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Speaker 3: So let's let's talk about some of those records, because well,

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Speaker 3: now I'm getting to the beginning, okay, okay, so let

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Speaker 3: me get to the beginning, all right.

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Speaker 4: So I got fired from RCA. I've been fired five times,

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Speaker 4: Like I have that distinction, you know, and I and

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Speaker 4: I am. I'm cool with it because because I was

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Speaker 4: a very strong flavor and my advocacy for artists and

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Speaker 4: my temperament was such that you either like a lot

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Speaker 4: of people disliked me because of my intensity. But I

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Speaker 4: was always for the music and always for the artists,

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Speaker 4: and always seeing through the artist's eyes and fearless and

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Speaker 4: not realizing like, oh shit, I'm gonna get my ass

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Speaker 4: kicked out of here because I'm just too strong, Like

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Speaker 4: I didn't know how to tone it down.

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Speaker 1: And I wasn't about to you were never scared to

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Speaker 1: be fired.

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Speaker 4: I never added it up until I started getting fired consistently.

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Speaker 1: So the first how'd the first firing feel?

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Speaker 4: The first firing was interesting because because that particular job

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Speaker 4: at RCA, they had already fired my boss four times.

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Speaker 1: I had four different bosses.

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Speaker 4: So the last boss who fired me, who passed away

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Speaker 4: rest in peace, Paul Atkinson. After I gave him mister

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Speaker 4: Mister's cassette which had which had broken wings on it,

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Speaker 4: he signed it himself and fired me, and that went

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Speaker 4: on to become a number one record, So I knew

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Speaker 4: I was on it, and I've never said that before.

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Speaker 1: Nobody knows that.

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Speaker 4: But I I got a job at EMI Records, the

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Speaker 4: guy who original signer of Whitney Houston, Jerry Griffith, who

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Speaker 4: interestingly enough, was one of the few African American rayn

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Speaker 4: rs that was head of the pop department, and he

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Speaker 4: was a great man, a beautiful man, and he gave

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Speaker 4: me a job to be an R guy. So I

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Speaker 4: went from RCAA to EMI, and I stumbled into the

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Speaker 4: soundtrack to Pretty Woman, which my buddy was working at

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Speaker 4: Disney guy named Mitch Leeb he was working to say, hey,

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Speaker 4: we we're doing this movie over here. You know, Richard,

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Speaker 4: Gary's a little bit cold. But there's this new girl,

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Speaker 4: Julia Roberts. And if you come down to the studio, like,

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Speaker 4: we'll go to the set. And I happened to be

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Speaker 4: there the day of the bathtub scene, if you remember

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Speaker 4: a pretty Woman when she puts her toe into the faucet,

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Speaker 4: And he said, let's do a soundtrack album, a fill

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Speaker 4: with a bunch of records, and Gary Marshall will put

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Speaker 4: all the records in the movie. And I said sure

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Speaker 4: and signed the movie. And then the thing again, like

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Speaker 4: another strike stroke of lightning, goes bananas and becomes a

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Speaker 4: cultural phenomenon, and the Pretty Woman album sold twenty million copies.

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Speaker 1: In the guy.

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Speaker 4: So, but I'm not a soundtrack guy, remember what I am.

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Speaker 4: I'm like half ass engineer, half ass producer, have ass ranger,

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Speaker 4: wanting to be a jazz guy.

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Speaker 1: First success on the sound straight.

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Speaker 4: But I wasn't really the producer. I was the A

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Speaker 4: and R guy who made the deal, and I broke

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Speaker 4: at it. So they made me. Now they elevate me.

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Speaker 4: I'm skipping through history very quickly. But it's okay, okay.

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Speaker 4: Ron we're going to promote you now to senior vice

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Speaker 4: president of the A and R for EMI Records, living.

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Speaker 1: In New York.

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Speaker 3: And how long does that take from when you first

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Speaker 3: got the job for you for you to go from

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Speaker 3: A and R to senior.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I forgot Christalist. There was probably five years. I

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Speaker 1: got Chris List.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I forgot Christmas. I forgot England, I forgot Go West.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of stuff in between. Let's go to

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Speaker 4: em I now because this is what this is why

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Speaker 4: I'm here, Okay, Jay, why I'm on R and B

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Speaker 4: money So pretty mum goes crazy. I'm now the boss

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Speaker 4: of A and R, the creative guy and my boss

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Speaker 4: at the time, another guy passed away Rest in peace.

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Speaker 4: Salacatta calls me into a meeting and he says, run,

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Speaker 4: what do you know about the OJS? I said the OJS? Like,

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Speaker 4: what do you mean? What do I know about the OJ's?

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Speaker 4: Like they're the encyclopedia of every great song and he goes,

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Speaker 4: they're signed to us, they owe us an album. They

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Speaker 4: don't their an R guy is gone go to Cleveland

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Speaker 4: and get involved and meet these guys and deliver their record.

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Speaker 4: It's like, really, yeah, head of an r go, go

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Speaker 4: fucking deal with it. So around this time I had

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Speaker 4: stumbled on to I keep using that word a Bob

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Speaker 4: Dylan song that I had to be in my bonnet for.

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Speaker 4: This song was called Emotionally Yours and Bob Dylan to

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Speaker 4: me like he's my generation blowing in the wind, like

336
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Speaker 4: you know, Bob Dylan is like like a religious icon

337
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Speaker 4: almost to somebody like me growing up in the Vietnam era,

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Speaker 4: baby boomer and everything. So I had this idea that

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Speaker 4: I wanted Huey Lewis, who was on our label, to

340
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Speaker 4: cover the Bob Dylan song. Okay, so I pitch it

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Speaker 4: to me and my boss went to Fan Francisco. We

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Speaker 4: go up to see Huey Lewis here we lose in

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Speaker 4: the news and they were hot, hot, hot. It's got

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Speaker 4: this Bob Dylan song. I really want you to do it.

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Speaker 4: And he listens to the song and he goes, wow,

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Speaker 4: there's Bob Dylan version. He goes, this is great, Ron,

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Speaker 4: I love this. I love Bob Dylan. I totally get

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Speaker 4: what you're saying. I'm not going to do it. I said,

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Speaker 4: wait a minute, what am I missing? You love the song?

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Speaker 4: You get it. Huey Lewis covering Bob Dylan. That's a

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Speaker 4: great thing. He goes, now, Nah, I can't, I can't

352
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Speaker 4: do that. I can't. I can't do Bob Dylan. I'm

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Speaker 4: just not going to do it. And I'm sitting here

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Speaker 4: and I thought, well.

355
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Speaker 1: What about wait? Wait? What about if?

356
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Speaker 4: What about if I get the OJ's to sing the

357
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Speaker 4: backgrounds on it, Huey Lewis and the old J's doing

358
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Speaker 4: Bob Dylan? What could be better than that? Like I'm

359
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,480
Speaker 4: just searching off file, matching file, found oh j is singing

360
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Speaker 4: the backgrounds.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea.

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Speaker 4: You know, we kind of bullshit? Is that?

363
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Speaker 1: So? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Man, great idea. I love the OJ's man, there they're incredible.

365
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Speaker 1: Like, I'm not gonna do it.

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Speaker 4: So like meeting over, We're driving in the rented convertible

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Speaker 4: across the Golden Gate Bridge, me and my boss, and

368
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Speaker 4: I said, fuck that asshole, I'm gonna give it to

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Speaker 4: the OJS. Fuck Huey Lewis. I'll just do it with

370
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Speaker 4: the OJS. So great, when are you going to Cleveland

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Speaker 4: next Thursday? So I send the song in advance and

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Speaker 4: I've got this idea and that the OJ's are going

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Speaker 4: to do this Bob Dylan song. I haven't heard any

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Speaker 4: of their stuff, okay, And I send it in advance

375
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Speaker 4: and the time comes on. I get to Cleveland and

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Speaker 4: they had these guys Terry Stubbs and and Dwayne someone

377
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,479
Speaker 4: I can't remember his name, Terry, I can't remember the name.

378
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,159
Speaker 4: So it was so long ago, and they were like

379
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Speaker 4: the beat guys from Cleveland who were working on the

380
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Speaker 4: tracks for the OJS.

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Speaker 1: So I get there like, hey, I'm out there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The end house goes, Hey, nice to meet you guys.

383
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Speaker 1: How y'all doing?

384
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,200
Speaker 4: And everything sounded like bell BIV Devaux okay, and I'm

385
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Speaker 4: introducing myself. It's like, did you guys hear the Dolan tune?

386
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 4: Talking to Eddie and Walt? Like the third guy in

387
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,119
Speaker 4: the OJS had passed away and it was Eddie LeVert

388
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Speaker 4: and Walt Williams, Legends, Gamble and Huff Royalty, Like, doesn't

389
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Speaker 4: get any deeper other than Barry Gordy. Okay, that's the

390
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Speaker 4: level of the OJS. And I knew that.

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Speaker 1: Guys.

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Speaker 4: Did you hear the Bob Nolan song? He's like, no, man,

393
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Speaker 4: you gotta listen to our shit. So I listened to

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Speaker 4: their stuff and it's like, okay, now this is cool.

395
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Speaker 4: This is cool, the great core changes and stuff. He said,

396
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Speaker 4: what about the Dolan tune?

397
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Speaker 1: Do you know it? Like? Oh man.

398
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Speaker 4: Ah, I said, let me teach you to you. So

399
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Speaker 4: I sit down at the piano and I start playing it.

400
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 4: And you know, like I told you, it was a

401
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Speaker 4: half aassed piano player, but I was pretty good. You

402
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 4: get it off and I'm singing it to them. It's

403
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 4: like Eddie Lavert right here, and it's like getting closer

404
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,199
Speaker 4: and I to feel his like sweat and his breath

405
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Speaker 4: on my ear, and Walter Williams over here and they started.

406
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Speaker 4: Walter's like Marvin Gay, He's ridiculous. Yes, these guys are

407
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Speaker 4: fucking drilling me in my ears, right in my fucking head.

408
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Speaker 4: And I started getting uncomfortable.

409
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Speaker 1: I turned to.

410
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Speaker 4: Eddie and I said, excuse me, but can I get

411
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Speaker 4: one square inch to groove in? And they looked at

412
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Speaker 4: each other and they burst into historical laughter. And right

413
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Speaker 4: there when they laughed, because I was I wasn't it

414
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 4: wasn't a joke. I wanted once were an inch to

415
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Speaker 4: groove in. Right then and there, my life changed. It

416
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 4: changed right there, because what started to happen was the

417
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 4: shit that they learned from Gamble and Huff, And nobody

418
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Speaker 4: knows this except for Eddie and Walter. I'm still friends

419
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Speaker 4: with the ship that they learned from the Royalty of

420
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Speaker 4: the sound of Philadelphia through Gamble and Huff, that they

421
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Speaker 4: channeled and they drilled it into my brain and I'm

422
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Speaker 4: I'm a jazz guy. So it's like the harmonic information.

423
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Speaker 4: I was already subdividing in my mind, like what are

424
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 4: these chords? What are these harmonies? What are these branches

425
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 4: of background parts and trees and cascading ad libs?

426
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Speaker 1: How do they relate?

427
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Speaker 4: So I'm like music theory, vegimatic slicing and dicing this

428
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 4: shit inhaling it and my life changed in front of me.

429
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Speaker 4: So this album Emotionally Yours on EMI, which had three

430
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 4: hits on it had it had Don't Let Me Down,

431
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Speaker 4: which was a number one R and B record, It

432
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Speaker 4: had Keep On Loving Me, which was a number one

433
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Speaker 4: R and B record, and it had Emotionally Yours by

434
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Speaker 4: Bob Dylan, which became the biggest Bob Dylan song by

435
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 4: an R and B group in history.

436
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 1: Wow.

437
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 4: And what the album was called Emotionally yours and it

438
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 4: was the only platinum album that the Ojy's made that

439
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 4: Gamble and.

440
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 3: Huff didn't make Congratulations amazing.

441
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 4: Okay, And then it went on. It kept going on

442
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 4: and on, and we did. When we toured it, I

443
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 4: got paranoid because my version of it was.

444
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: A gospel version. Yeah yeah.

445
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 4: And I had Richard T, who passed away like the

446
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 4: greatest gospel piano player ever, Victor Bailey, Omar Hakem. I

447
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 4: had the fucking New York Royalty guys playing on this

448
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 4: track and an orchestra that I arranged. Course I did

449
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 4: my big strings, and the song was it was like

450
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 4: an opera. It was so dramatic, this beautiful piano part

451
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 4: that Richard T played. We recorded it at Marathon Studios

452
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 4: in New York City, and then when we promoted it,

453
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 4: I got nervous, like this is too gospel, this is

454
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 4: to church, Like I went into this whole gospel thing.

455
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 4: I literally when we did the choir session, I did

456
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 4: it a power station in New York and I told thatdy.

457
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 4: I said, let's make it into an event. And like,

458
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 4: by the way, people were letting me go like I

459
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 4: was just a mad man. So I put a choir

460
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 4: session together that at the time for R and B

461
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 4: people that are watching your show to wat Adgie, Martha Wash,

462
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 4: Evelyn Champagneking, Ray Goodman and Brown. Gerald LeVert conducted the

463
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 4: choir Keith Sweat. All these people showed up for the

464
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 4: OJS to sing the choir part on the Bob Dylan

465
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 4: song Emotionally Yours, and I filmed it and I got

466
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 4: it on the local news. Then what happened was when

467
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 4: I got paranoid that the gospel version wasn't going to

468
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: be a hit, and I had spent so much money

469
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 4: and it was so off my rocker that I told

470
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 4: my boss I got to recut it, like as if

471
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 4: that wasn't enough, because it's to church and I want

472
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 4: to recut it, and I'm going to get nar to

473
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 4: Michael Walden who was just coming off.

474
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 1: Of Whitney Houston, and he cut it.

475
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 4: So then I released it as a double A side

476
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 4: and I made two videos. Oh shit, I was half

477
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 4: a million dollars in on Emotionally Yours. But you know

478
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 4: what happened. The shit worked and when they played Arsenio

479
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 4: Hall and sang it, we did it as a piano

480
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 4: vocal and I played the piano I played. I learned

481
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 4: Richard T's part and I played it. I played it

482
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 4: every place I could, because it was the wind beneath

483
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 4: my wings. It was everything. And the kapper was when

484
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 4: the Bob Dylan Tribute concert came to Madison Square Garden

485
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 4: and it was Chris Christofferson and Jim Keltner and Duck

486
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 4: Dunn and the original Sam and Daves and all that shit.

487
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 4: The only black act on the Bob Dylan Tribute consert

488
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 4: Madison Square Garden was the OJS. And that night I

489
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 4: had Sissy Houston and Sheryl Crow and I can't even

490
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 4: remember all the names of the people that were in.

491
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: It, and.

492
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 4: Took so much pride in it. But and then of

493
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 4: course the moment passed, and that was emotionally Yours and

494
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 4: Eddie and Walt were baked into my life as forever

495
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 4: rabbis of R and B and what I learned musically

496
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 4: from it. This is great because it's going to lead

497
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 4: into all the rest of the stories. Was what gave

498
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 4: me the balls and the authority to later on teach

499
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 4: ojays to Christina aguilera little. Does she know that every

500
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 4: background part that we made up was Gamble and Hough

501
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 4: through the OJS, threw me to her and she just

502
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 4: soaked it up. She had the chops. She's a descendant

503
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 4: of the OJS through me without knowing it. And then

504
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 4: later on after Christina, who was straight up R and

505
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 4: B singing about on pop records, then it became Keisha Cole,

506
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 4: Mary J. Blige, Fantasia, Macy Gray and the rest of it.

507
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 4: And the whole time it was the OJS.

508
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: So tell me this, do you think you could have

509
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 3: pulled this off if you didn't have your senior position

510
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 3: as as an executive.

511
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 4: There's no question I would not have been able to

512
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 4: pull any of it off. But I was just this mad,

513
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 4: crazy guy with this energy. And you know, sometimes when

514
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 4: you walk fast and talk loud, you steamroll through shit,

515
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 4: and it's called it's also you know, it's passion, it's

516
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 4: you know what I love, what I do, it's passion,

517
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 4: it's vision. Later on, as as the story develops, the

518
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 4: people along the way that that I met with, and

519
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 4: we'll go through it. But like when I started cutting

520
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 4: R and B records in my time at Interscope with

521
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 4: Jimmy Jimmy Iovine, there were two guys in the backfield

522
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 4: that were coaching me promotion, guys step Johnson.

523
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: And Marsh Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

524
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 4: And it was like Ron, like, we don't care if

525
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 4: you're the white Jewish kid from the valley. Whatever you're

526
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 4: doing is the ship. Keep doing it, give us these records.

527
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 4: So step Johnson was the one to say, Ron, black

528
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 4: music is the major food group of music. R and B, gospel,

529
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 4: rhythm and blues, rock and roll, and reggae. It's all

530
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 4: our shit. Those are the food groups, man, that's the nutrition.

531
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 4: And it was like, you're right, you're right. And it

532
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 4: was a feast of musicality coming from the tradition that

533
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 4: because of this freaky thing that happened with the OJS,

534
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 4: that got stamped into my soul.

535
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

536
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 4: So that later on, like I said, I could hold

537
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 4: my own in a room with somebody like Mary J.

538
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 4: Blige fearlessly and you knew what the fuck you were

539
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 4: doing as an equal.

540
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes.

541
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 3: So when you see a Christina aguilera big voice Mickey

542
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 3: Mouse Club, and you see that and you meet her

543
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: and you're like, she's an R and B artist, She's

544
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 3: an R and B vocal, Right, obviously it's going to

545
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 3: be pop and we're going to figure out how how

546
00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 3: to make this work. But she wasn't Britney Spears. She

547
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 3: wasn't that type of pop arty. She was really an

548
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 3: R and B voice trapped in a pop body.

549
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 4: So Christina is a God given enormous talent.

550
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: She has.

551
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 4: Two things. She has an amazing three more than two.

552
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 4: First of all, amazing chops. So her athletic ability too

553
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:28,719
Speaker 4: in the singing muscle was Michael Jordan. Her her tone

554
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 4: that God gave her was a miracle and her ear

555
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 4: yah was the jet fuel the whole time, because you

556
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 4: could play a chord and she would just go. But

557
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 4: I knew from the get go with Christina that that,

558
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 4: you know, we could we could go up. We could

559
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 4: go up and we could go down. We could do

560
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 4: a Genina bottle. But she also sang with Andrea Bachelli

561
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 4: and Herbie Hancock and doctor John. I had her doing

562
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 4: all this highbrow shit. Yeah, while we were legitimizing that

563
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 4: in that particular moment pre internet, Yeah, that Christina and

564
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 4: Brittany who were by the way, It made for great

565
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 4: magazine copy for sure, but that that Christina was the

566
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 4: singer and she was like when she sang at last

567
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 4: on Saturday Night Live the Oda James Tune, I was

568
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 4: playing the piano. I was always trying to just express myself.

569
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 3: And as a senior executive, though you know this is

570
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 3: like that is ron.

571
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: That is not normal, right.

572
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 4: It's not normal, And I took there was a lot

573
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 4: of hate and a lot of misunderstanding, and like I said, I.

574
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: Was fired five times. Yeah.

575
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 4: So that same fire that led me to be so

576
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 4: passionate about the records, it is the same thing that

577
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 4: took me down every time. And I think it's important

578
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 4: that that you're following and what this podcast is all about,

579
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 4: that they understand that I understand that now and that

580
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 4: when I go back and talk and think about, like,

581
00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 4: well I could have done this, I could have that,

582
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 4: like cause my thing always was I had you know,

583
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 4: I was forty five years in the majors. Was always

584
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 4: about the music and when that was the thing and

585
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 4: that was convened, and that led to Vanessa Carlton and

586
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 4: the Black Eyed Peas and the Pussy gat Dolls and

587
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 4: you know everything else. It wasn't the the other piece

588
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 4: of the puzzle, which is so important, which is the

589
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 4: relationships and power and how music and relationships and power

590
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 4: all conspire and work together in the record industry. I

591
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 4: was just the dumb ass guy who was fighting for

592
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 4: the music and fighting for the artist. And so now

593
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 4: when I look back on it, and I was really

594
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 4: I was talking to my wife today about thinking about

595
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 4: to go back and take regret and turn it into

596
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 4: knowledge and instead of being regrettaful for like I should

597
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 4: on this show that or whatever, like over the forty

598
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 4: five years to like, you know what, I fucking learned

599
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 4: from it, and it's knowledge and it's power.

600
00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

601
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 4: So it keeps me going every time I meet a

602
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 4: new artist because I'm hopeful it's preposterous. Well we're going

603
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 4: to start from nothing, nothing and put a song on

604
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 4: TikTok and it's going to change the world. Well, guess what,

605
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 4: I've been there so many fucking times when that's happened.

606
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: I believe it. And that's what we need in our industry.

607
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: We need hopeful people.

608
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: Right, We have enough people who aren't hopeful because I

609
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 3: have the conversations with them, not people even that I

610
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 3: bring on the show, because just my friends in the industry,

611
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 3: people I've seen do amazing things. Now that I have

612
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 3: certain conversations. You're like, oh, this can't and that can

613
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 3: I'm like, well why not? And I've said it many times.

614
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 3: We make magic, we do. We pull out the sky

615
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 3: somehow it funnels through us, through your higher powers, and

616
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 3: now we have this thing that did not exist.

617
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 4: Correct and like by the way, like right now, like

618
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 4: something like miracles, like artists that get passed on a

619
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 4: million times, like you know, there's a great tradition of

620
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 4: the artists passed on, Choperon, Lady gag Got, Bruno, Mars

621
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 4: fIF Macy Gray.

622
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: All were dropped for sure right on the planet. Yeah.

623
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 4: And then this miracles like ray that that needs to

624
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 4: be discovered by Jay Irving, like a guy from not

625
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 4: even from England who picks the best ask on the planet.

626
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just what it blows up?

627
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 3: She is all the way there right, vision right, and

628
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 3: and having a because this was something that I noticed

629
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 3: that you a move you made with Christina. You brought

630
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 3: in Eric Dawkins and I remember him going and I

631
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 3: remember hearing about her first through him, and I'm like, don't,

632
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 3: I don't. Okay, you're a grey singer, she's a great singer,

633
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 3: but how do you get that call?

634
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: You know, what I'm saying. And obviously from my understanding,

635
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: you made that connection.

636
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 4: So it's I mean to comprehend. How does Eric Dawkins

637
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 4: fit in that world? Is because I learned the food

638
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 4: groups from Eddie and Walt. They gave me the roadmap

639
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 4: to the treasure. And and then because I want to

640
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 4: delve back into like then with the other I look

641
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 4: at all the R and B acts that I got

642
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 4: lucky enough to work with, even though we have mass

643
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 4: efits as teachers. Keisha Cole at the in her hottest

644
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 4: period of her life, she had the hot hand. All

645
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 4: I did was listen to her and and then she

646
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 4: would bring music in and it would be like, oh, okay,

647
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 4: I get it. You want to sing this, you want

648
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 4: to sing that, but the lets't pick this chord and

649
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 4: lets lea the be Let's polish this up like and

650
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 4: and then or Mary, like when we redid the breakthrough

651
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 4: like be without You was there's a whole other version

652
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 4: of the song before we finished it where there was

653
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 4: mistakes yeah on it and and uh and she not

654
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 4: only was I used to think, I used to think

655
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 4: with regards to Mary, which I do want to talk about.

656
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 4: She was like my Elvis. She was like the fucking

657
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 4: Elvis Presley, like this gigantic thing like Elvis, like you know,

658
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 4: Barbara Judy Elvis. That's how Mary was to me, like

659
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 4: the biggest of the big. But she was also gracious

660
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 4: and a great teacher. Because they used to say shit

661
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 4: to me, like, don't lose the hump. Whatever you're doing there, man,

662
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 4: skinny too shiny, and it would be like, what do

663
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 4: you mean? And it was the whole way the underneath

664
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 4: of an R and B record had to move the bass,

665
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 4: the bass drum, the beat, and then the other stuff

666
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 4: on top, the orchestration, the vocals, the harmonic stuff, and

667
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 4: how those two things lived together. Like I wasn't making

668
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 4: hit records right away. It was by you know, it

669
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 4: was people like Mary and Keisha. Just by listening to them.

670
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 3: They taught me what is your first What was your

671
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: first that you considered from a producers standpoint, your first

672
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 3: hit record?

673
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 4: The first number one record I produced was the reggae

674
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 4: version of baby I Love Your Way by Big Mountain,

675
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 4: and that has a great story to it also, you know,

676
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 4: going back into the weeds. Big Mountain was a local

677
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 4: San Bernardino group that had in these days of radio

678
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 4: stations were programmed by humans, and they were getting they

679
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 4: were getting overnight airplay on KSFM.

680
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: Weight Yeah, and there's.

681
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 4: A song called touch My Light and I kept hearing

682
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 4: it and this guy sounded like Bob Marley and was like,

683
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 4: this is fucking good. But I was doing the soundtrack

684
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 4: to Reality Bites and Baby I Love Your Way was

685
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 4: in the movie, and I thought, I want to do

686
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 4: a reggae version of this.

687
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: I had all this, you know, like Peter Frampton. Yeah.

688
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 4: So basically they're like visions or delusions. I'm gonna do

689
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 4: it reggae and then I'm gonna have a hit. And

690
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 4: the hot group at the time was a group called

691
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 4: Inner Circle.

692
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: Yes, bad boys, Bad boys, what you're gonna do? Yeah?

693
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 4: Right, So it's like I'm gonna go a Circle house

694
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 4: out in Miami. So I'm gonna go to Intercircle and

695
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 4: get them to do this song. So their manager at

696
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 4: the time, Cock blocked that, and I couldn't get to

697
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 4: Inner Circle. So I thought maybe that group that has

698
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 4: that overnight fucking song, but they weren't anybody big Mountain.

699
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 4: All they had was the overnights on KSFM, So I

700
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,479
Speaker 4: brought it to them and said why do we do baby,

701
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 4: I love your way and it was like yeah, and

702
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 4: we'll put it in reality bites.

703
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

704
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 4: So the heartbeat of that record is abe Laboreal Senior

705
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,439
Speaker 4: and junior bass and drums. Abe lea Boreal junior who

706
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 4: everybody knows as Paul McCartney's drummer. Uh. It was in

707
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 4: high school and his father, Abraham Li Boreal Senior is

708
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 4: one of the legendary bass players to ever walk the planet. Okay,

709
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 4: and you know Quincy Jones level he was on. Abe

710
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 4: Le Boreal was on everything. So I had the idea

711
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 4: in my head that shadows grow so long.

712
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: Before my eyes.

713
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 4: It is all coming from a musical place, that the

714
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 4: bass would have a like a Mozart counterpoint to it

715
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 4: the whole time. But bomb ba bump bump bo but

716
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 4: bomb bob that I would create a counterpoint between the

717
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 4: reggae bassline and the melody of the song, and that

718
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 4: was going to be the gl Lou And that's how

719
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 4: we recorded it. It started with bass, click track and lead

720
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 4: vocal and the rest I filled in and that became

721
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 4: my first number one single around the world and it

722
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 4: was game on.

723
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: But were you at the label as an executive by that. Yeah.

724
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was at a different label than Big Mountain,

725
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 4: but you know, I was always running that, running that

726
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 4: scam man I had.

727
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: I had they weren't your artists, and.

728
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 4: I borrowed them. Oh shit, I borrowed that. They were

729
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 4: on Giant Records.

730
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: Because you were doing that that that sounds right. Yeah, yeah,

731
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 1: it was for R c A.

732
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 4: But I started to hijack the ship and started to

733
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 4: produce a lot of the records when I thought I

734
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 4: was the right guy. Okay, so I was doing the

735
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 4: two hat thing. I hope this is all making sense

736
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 4: because we're jumping around a lot. I was doing the

737
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 4: two hat thing where I'm gonna bring you back, I'm

738
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 4: gonna keep I only wanted to produce the records where

739
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 4: I really thought I was the right guy because as

740
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,919
Speaker 4: an an R guy, I had a I could do more. Yeah,

741
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 4: but as a producer, I knew my shtick, you know,

742
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 4: and I tried to stay stay in my lane. So

743
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 4: I saw so mitigate failure. That way I could still

744
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 4: win as an an R guy. Christina's first album, I

745
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 4: didn't produce anything nothing. I produced the producers, and that

746
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 4: trick producing the producers exactly what Jimmy Iven did through

747
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 4: all of the successful years of Interscope, and it was

748
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 4: his mantra. That's why he had will I am Ron Fair, Timbaland, Pharrell, Kwame,

749
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 4: Kerry Hillson. He produced all of us and he had

750
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 4: that winning lineup. Yeah, because he himself was a producer,

751
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 4: but he was he was just making hands off, he

752
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 4: make he was just making suggestions. Some of them would

753
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 4: piss me off and some of them would lead to

754
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 4: greater heights.

755
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

756
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 3: So when you so you said that, So when you

757
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 3: get the first Christina album, you don't produce that, not

758
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 3: a single note, and you're at at that time it's

759
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 3: our Yeah.

760
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, how long are you there that particular run?

761
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 4: Because I was at RCA twice.

762
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 1: Oh you went back? I went back.

763
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 4: That was probably I think it was. I'm going to

764
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 4: say it was like four years.

765
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 3: So if you get fired from a company and they

766
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 3: bring you back, do you hold anything like now you

767
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 3: got a faby devil.

768
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 4: Actually, I want to say this, So Christina came second

769
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 4: in my pursuit to recreate the OJS as a white

770
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 4: pop thing. The first iteration of it was.

771
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: Wild wild, Yes, Okay, I'm familiar and.

772
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 4: That was Stacy Ferguson, who became Fergie, who I went

773
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 4: back and re signed into the Black Eyed Peas with

774
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 4: which we'll talk about. Stephanie Roydell, who is the mother

775
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 4: of my four children. Is the angel in my life yea,

776
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 4: but not at the time. And Renee Sanstrom and the

777
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 4: ship that Wild Orchid was singing was the OJS. If

778
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 4: you go back and listen to their album, it's all

779
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 4: gamble and huff knockoff, all the harmonies, all the way

780
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 4: the backgrounds work, and it was pre auto tune. We

781
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 4: just had to sing the shit over and over over again,

782
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 4: util it was in tune right. And so it didn't

783
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 4: work as a three piece girl group because of management,

784
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 4: because of luck, because of the circumstances at the time,

785
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 4: because I didn't know enough. I was just an idiot

786
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 4: kid record executive. I didn't know what I would later

787
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 4: know which would allow me to not only make the records,

788
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 4: would break acts. And so what I signing wasn't my

789
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 4: first signing. My first signing was Armored Saint, the heavy

790
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 4: metal band. That was the first first band I ever signed,

791
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 4: but from all of the universe clobbering me and the

792
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 4: failure of that, which was I spent when we turned

793
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 4: in Wild Orchid. The head of the label was a

794
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 4: guy named Strauss Zelnik. At the time, he was my

795
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 4: boss's boss's boss. He was the head corporate guy. He

796
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 4: said to me, this is going to sell millions and

797
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 4: you're going to be David Foster because this album you

798
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 4: have produced. Yeah, and I produced the Wild Work record,

799
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 4: and I thought, like I bought a brand new Calvin

800
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 4: Client suit that was like two thousand bucks.

801
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: The shirt was seven hundred bucks because he told you

802
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: used to be David Foster.

803
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 4: And uh, it didn't happen, but I took Then I

804
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 4: stumbled upon Christina and just took that the lessons. But

805
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 4: she was not a group and she had the exquisite

806
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 4: chops and so that's that's what led me to it.

807
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 4: And you know, and the rest is history with Christina

808
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 4: and that by then Christina became a cultural phenomenon and

809
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 4: and she's still relevant to this day and she's a

810
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 4: magnificent artist and singer, and you know, will always have

811
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 4: my heart because she's my offspring in a way.

812
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. So when you go from RCA, do you go

813
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: to Geffen directly from there?

814
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 4: No?

815
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 3: So here's what happened, because you got a thousand miles

816
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 3: in between there.

817
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 4: Now, that happened after after RCA, so so I had

818
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 4: signed Christina. Her her single went to number one in

819
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 4: four or five weeks, the album came in at number one.

820
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 4: H Puff Daddy was number two. It was a miracle.

821
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 4: And then I was king shit. Yeah okay, and my

822
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 4: contract was up and I was two hundred and sixty

823
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 4: five pounds one hundred pounds heavier than I am now.

824
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 4: So I was a successful, fat an R guy and

825
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 4: my with U thirteen million albums in my pocket from Christina,

826
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 4: a bunch of number ones, yeah, and expiring contract. So

827
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 4: I looked at myself with disgust, and I said one

828
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 4: thing to myself, you can't make this ship up. And

829
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 4: I've never said any of this before anywhere. I thought,

830
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 4: Killiman Jarrow, I'm going to I'm Mount Kilimanjaro, and I'm

831
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 4: gonna get my head straight. And so I started walking

832
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 4: on Runyan Canyon and get rid of that weight. And

833
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 4: then I started running on Runyan Canyon to get rid

834
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 4: of that weight. And then I started running with weight

835
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 4: on Runyan Canyon and I trained, and then I signed

836
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 4: up and I went on an expedition and went to

837
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 4: the top of Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa. Yeah yeah, I

838
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 4: climbed it and came back and got my weight under control.

839
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 4: And right around that time, I was doing Christina's Christmas album,

840
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 4: which is really a great album. She's completely insane on

841
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 4: the ad libs on that record, singing at the peak

842
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 4: of her youthful powers, like with nobody checking it. Ad

843
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 4: libs like you can't even I mean so many, like

844
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 4: it was incredible what she was doing, and I loved

845
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 4: every note of it because I'm a jazz guy. So

846
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 4: there she is running and running and running and running

847
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 4: and running, and I wasn't gonna stopp her. So we're

848
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 4: in We're in uh, Winnipeg, the mosquito capital of the world,

849
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 4: where the mosquitoes are like birds, and and uh doing

850
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 4: a Christmas album and and I get a call like

851
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 4: we're in the middle of doing like Holy Night or something.

852
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 4: The star the bright lee shining. Christina's in there singing,

853
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 4: and it's like Jimmy Iaven online too. I'm thinking like,

854
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 4: oh yeah, somebody's fucking pranking me. Jimmy Ivey is not

855
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 4: calling me in and I'm in Winnipeg fucking doing Holy Night?

856
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 4: What do you mean? So? Uh, I pick up the

857
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 4: phone and I thought, like I used to I have

858
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 4: a friend Danny Strik who used to prank me and

859
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 4: call up and say it's Clive Davis, and you know,

860
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 4: he pranked me all the time. So I pick up

861
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 4: the phone and I said to Christina, hang on it'

862
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 4: sec I gotta take this. And it's like, yeah, this

863
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 4: is Jimmy Ivan. I had met him. I had met

864
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 4: him once before, I barely knew him. And he said,

865
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 4: I'm reading Rolling Stone magazine right here, your girl Christina

866
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 4: on the cover and it says in this it says

867
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 4: in this article that you forced her to sing Genie

868
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 4: in a bottle. This is Jimmy on the phone.

869
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: Is that true? And I'm thinking to myself, this is

870
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: some kind of weird setup, like yeah, yeah, the trick

871
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: question is something trick question?

872
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 4: And I said uh uh. And before I could answer,

873
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 4: Jimmy said this to me, I need a guy who

874
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 4: can force artists to sing number one records? Can I

875
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 4: have a meeting with you? And I went and met

876
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 4: with Jimmy and again I told you, like I'd lost

877
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 4: all the weight, I'd climbed out kil Njaro, Christina had

878
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 4: one best new artist. It was the change in my

879
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 4: life had come. And I went and met with Jimmy

880
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 4: and he said, I want to make you president of

881
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 4: A and M Records and I'll give you great salary.

882
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 4: And you know, I said, well, Jimmy, you know I'm

883
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 4: a producer. I'm I got to have a studio. I

884
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 4: got to be able to cut records without a budget,

885
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 4: like I just need to be able to record. And

886
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 4: he said, man, you want you want studio? You want

887
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:57,720
Speaker 4: two studiess you want three studios.

888
00:45:57,719 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: How many engineers? You want to have? Five engineers? What

889
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: do you want? Yeah?

890
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 4: I was told if you take that job, you're gonna

891
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 4: curl up in a ball and disappear by somebody at RCA.

892
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: And I that's when I knew, like I'm out of here.

893
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 4: And then I took the job. And ten weeks later,

894
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 4: Lady Marmalade good. Ten weeks later. And this is a

895
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 4: great story because Jimmy so I just got there. And

896
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 4: when I signed my contract, Jimmy was so smart. I mean,

897
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 4: he's he is the zeus of it all. And I

898
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 4: had him for ten years in my face, giving me

899
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 4: A tripled Harvard PhD. In this ship that I am a.

900
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 4: I am a graduate of it. And he had made

901
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 4: the deal for Mulin Rouge, the album from the movie,

902
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 4: and they were gonna cut Lady Marmalade, the pointers of

903
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 4: the song that that Alan Tu saint Row. I met

904
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 4: with Baz Luhrman and they hired Bas wanted me, I

905
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 4: see Elliott to do the record, which along with Missy

906
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 4: comes Rock Wilder and her team.

907
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

908
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 4: So I go to Westlake Studios on like day one

909
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 4: of Lady Marmelot. I'm on the way over there and

910
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 4: Mona Scott calls me up and goes, hey, Ron, you.

911
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: Know how are I? Like?

912
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 4: I got bad news. Turn around. You're not gonna work

913
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 4: on the song. Missy doesn't want to do it that way.

914
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 4: She was managing Missy, so like, don't go to the studio.

915
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 4: It's like, Okay, I called Jimmy. I said, I think

916
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 4: I've just been fired off the song.

917
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: Give me a minute.

918
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 4: So I'm driving back to Santa Monica now, and then

919
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 4: Mona calls back and goes, oh, okay, no, no, no, no,

920
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 4: go to the studio and we had Rock Wilder's track

921
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 4: and Rock Wilder had this miracle where he got his

922
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 4: brand new core triton this new keyboard.

923
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: At the time, this was the hot shit.

924
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 4: And when you turn the keyboard on, the very first

925
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 4: sound that comes up, bank a sound zero zero zero

926
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 4: was called noise. He stabber, that was the name of

927
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 4: the patch, and he put his hand on it and

928
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 4: it was done.

929
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: Bank a patch zero zero zero. Like you didn't even

930
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: fish for the shit. It was right there.

931
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 4: Magic, magic, magic. So we took the idea to Christina.

932
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 4: Jimmy was smart because he let me continue to work

933
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 4: with Christina on RCA even though I was now at Innerscope.

934
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: I had a carve out ten weeks later.

935
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 4: Okay, Christina jumps on the record. We put we get

936
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 4: Pink to agree to come on it. Our home team

937
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 4: girl was Maya, so you damn straight. I was gonna

938
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 4: put somebody from the home team water and then little

939
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 4: Kim came because of Missy and this magic thing happened.

940
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 4: Was thirteen days, Lady Marmola was thirteen days. And I

941
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 4: remember saying to Rock Wilder the whole time, am I

942
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,919
Speaker 4: making this shit too clean? It's like, no, man, I'll

943
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:03,479
Speaker 4: tell you if you go too far and he kept

944
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 4: it all on track, and then we kept sending it

945
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 4: to Missy.

946
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: He says, okay, is this okay? Is this okay? Is

947
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 1: this okay?

948
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 4: And then when it came to the ad libs on

949
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 4: Lady Marmalade, I realized they all have different schedules. They're

950
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:17,479
Speaker 4: not in the studio at the same time.

951
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: How am I?

952
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 4: How is this going to work where everybody, all four

953
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 4: of them including Kim, are doing ad libs. By the way,

954
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 4: I want to say this, the pocket for the hook

955
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 4: on Lady Marmalade, Hey, Sister Soul, and the all that

956
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 4: shit was Maya.

957
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: Maya laid the original.

958
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 4: Vocal down and and everybody, everybody jumped on her pocket.

959
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 4: She's an unsung hero. And of course they went on

960
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 4: to win the Grammy. But you know, Maya was an

961
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 4: incredibly hard worker and she she like she kind of

962
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 4: like doesn't get her her props, her flowers.

963
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: Give her some flowers. Yeah, we love Maya.

964
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was her pocket. Everybody jumped on it. And

965
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 4: then it became like a lot has been written about

966
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 4: Lady Marmalade, where you know that there was friction and

967
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 4: that I took Christina aside over pink and like, honestly,

968
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 4: I think all that is is great to sell magazines.

969
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 4: That the magic was there. They ouched. It was a

970
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,959
Speaker 4: like almost like a battle between them, but the ad

971
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 4: lib technique was very much. It was an idea I

972
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 4: had that if I because the song is modal, which

973
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 4: means that all through it dun dun dun dun dun

974
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 4: dun dunh there's a harmonic hitching post that everything springs

975
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 4: off of, and that you could sing an ad lib

976
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 4: through the entire three minute track, an ad lib pass

977
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 4: without the chords changing.

978
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, as long.

979
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,919
Speaker 4: As you stuck to the base, you could add lib.

980
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 4: So I took each girl in and I just said

981
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 4: ad lib top to bottom, all the way through, five times.

982
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: And find the hole.

983
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 4: And then during the ad lib pass, I would say

984
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 4: sing that again, sing what again? Yeah yeah yeah yeah,

985
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 4: sing it again, yeah yeah yeah, sing it five times

986
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 4: in a row, yeah yeah yeah yahkay another pass. And

987
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 4: I had an archive of ad libs from each singer.

988
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 4: Then I went through it and I learned them all

989
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 4: and I cataloged them and I gave them all names.

990
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 4: And I have two keyboards and an L shape, and

991
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 4: I gave them all names. And they were color coded

992
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 4: like Maya's ad libs were green, Christinas were red, Pinks

993
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 4: were blue, and Little Kim was purple and even like that,

994
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 4: yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Like none of that was done

995
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 4: where it is in the record. It was all just

996
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 4: done randomly on the track somewhere, and I would name

997
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 4: each ad lib like upswoop, ski jump, big nose, like

998
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 4: some way to remember remember it what the ads were.

999
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 4: And then I played them in and I had Q

1000
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 4: points where two three, four, yeah, yeah yeah, where would

1001
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 4: come in in the pocket based on the Q point

1002
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 4: And I played it in as a musical composition off keyboard,

1003
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 4: and I have pictures of this, and that's how the

1004
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 4: ad lib scheme came together, so that they all are

1005
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 4: going off each other yea, because I composed it off

1006
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 4: of their improvisation, so you get the best of both worlds.

1007
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 1: So you get the free spirit.

1008
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 4: Of an ad lib but in the right location geographically

1009
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 4: that they could never do unless they rehearsed it and

1010
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 4: practiced it and wrote it in advance, which was never

1011
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 4: gonna happen because they have different schedules and different lives,

1012
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 4: different shopping, you know all that. So lady Marmelwood comes

1013
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 4: out and it goes to number one.

1014
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 3: And you've been at the label for ten half months. Yeah,

1015
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 3: and and then.

1016
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 4: Another soundtrack, Yeah, the soundtrack, interestingly, and then it was

1017
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 4: it went on to win the Grammy and that was

1018
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 4: a beautiful thing. But right around then is when Damon Elliott.

1019
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Legend was working.

1020
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 4: At Enterprise Studios, where so Dave pens Auto had like

1021
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 4: a salon and everybody was Beyonce. Everybody was going to

1022
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 4: Dave Pensado was mixing everything and a great mixer.

1023
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely great. Listen, you're saying nothing but legend.

1024
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 4: So in the back room was Dion Warwick Kid who

1025
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 4: had like a little hundred dollars a month shithole studio,

1026
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 4: Damon Elliott. And Damon Elliott had an artist that he

1027
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 4: was developing named Keisha Cole Oakland and he knew them

1028
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 4: because of Smokey's twins.

1029
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: And Megan Lamaiyah. Yeah, all of them.

1030
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 4: Are around there, and young Keisha from Oakland, this rough girl,

1031
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 4: and and Greg Curtis and it was next to Dave Pinzato,

1032
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:22,919
Speaker 4: like in the next room.

1033
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: It's like, hey man, you want to.

1034
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,919
Speaker 3: Hear day there's no studio that we're into Yeah, because

1035
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 3: of Jason Josh that's right.

1036
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely so all connected.

1037
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 4: I hope this is all interesting because it's like really

1038
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 4: in the woodwork. And I've never said a lot of

1039
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,439
Speaker 4: this stuff, like I don't have a book because nobody reads.

1040
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: Isn't the point in writing it.

1041
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 3: That's why we have a podcast. That's why we have

1042
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 3: a podcasts why we're talking shit on here today. So

1043
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 3: we had Keisha Cole. Now, yeah, so Keisha Cole is

1044
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 3: this young kid. They had a whole album.

1045
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 4: There was a song called Snatch Your Weave out. There

1046
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 4: was this this whole thing. She had miraculously survived Oakland

1047
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 4: and had like shook night, put her up in a

1048
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 4: house for a while, like friend of Tupac, Like her

1049
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 4: story is absolutely incredible. And then they play me that song.

1050
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: Love yep and uh that was.

1051
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 4: A demo and I've found you that weird ad lib

1052
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 4: with a skip in it, And I thought to myself,

1053
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 4: this is the most authentic ship I've ever heard. This

1054
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 4: is this is authentic, this is this is the sound

1055
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 4: of authentic pain and it's beautiful. It was like, I

1056
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 4: want to sign you, and she's like suspicious and not

1057
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 4: understanding and I took her a couple of dinners and stuff,

1058
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 4: and there was we went to the Ivy and she

1059
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 4: had like some of the vegetables in the salad she

1060
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 4: never heard of and that.

1061
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I hear this polish. Yeah, Ivy is a

1062
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: little weird, but.

1063
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 4: Like music professor guy who's talking to her and that

1064
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 4: would be me. And so at one point she just said, well,

1065
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 4: you just got a pinky swear that you're going to

1066
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 4: take care of me. And I said, what is that?

1067
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 4: I didn't know, you know, didn't know what it was.

1068
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 4: She put a pinky on, she goes, this is it?

1069
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: Right him out?

1070
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 4: When you pinky swear with me? That is that is blood?

1071
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: I mean we locked in and I.

1072
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 4: Said yeah, And I took her to Jimmy to his

1073
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 4: house in Holmbie Hills and I said, I want to

1074
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 4: sign Keisha Cole and he said great. So we signed

1075
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 4: her and started working on a record. And then there

1076
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 4: was this weird song that she had. Oh well, actually

1077
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 4: actually the first thing we did was a beautiful cover

1078
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 4: of Never Too Much, the Luther song that got on

1079
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 4: the barbershop soundtracks, like let's introduce you on this barber

1080
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 4: shop soundtrack. But there was heavy politics on the barbershopild.

1081
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 3: Hold on real quick, because as this is all happening,

1082
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:04,240
Speaker 3: Keisha Cole is already my friend.

1083
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm hearing about I just met with Ron Fair.

1084
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:10,879
Speaker 1: Do you know him?

1085
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 3: I'm like, I know who he is, and you know

1086
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 3: he's he said he got these Oh he's the he's

1087
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 3: the head of an m Geffen and it's at it.

1088
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, interscope and you know the whole thing.

1089
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 3: And she's like, well, by this point, Keisha had probably

1090
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 3: been in LA maybe a year or two, a couple

1091
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 3: of years whatever, and I had probably met four or

1092
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 3: five different managers, yeah, in this span. And and she

1093
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 3: was asking me if I knew Damen Elliott.

1094
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 1: I was like, I know who all.

1095
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 3: He keeps asking me if I know people, and I'm like,

1096
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 3: I know who they are, but I don't know them personally.

1097
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 3: I was like, but I never heard anything but good

1098
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 3: about everybody your naming between yourself, Damon Elliott. And and

1099
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 3: she's like, all right, and I want you to meet

1100
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 3: Manny Haley. And I'm like, all right, And I meet

1101
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 3: Manny and he's like and got his voice too, right,

1102
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 3: everybody got the voices?

1103
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Yeah, we're gonna do it, Kischen, We're gonna

1104
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 1: it's gonna be great.

1105
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 3: And you guys are working on the project. I'm like, well,

1106
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 3: how's it going, and where's that song love? Because she

1107
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 3: had already played that record for me. Yeah, And I

1108
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 3: was like, I don't know about anything else. You played

1109
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 3: me that song whenever it sees the light of day.

1110
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 3: Because I had known Great Curtis too, I was like,

1111
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 3: whenever that song sees the light of day.

1112
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: You're out of here.

1113
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 4: You're absolutely took a long, long, securitiest path to get

1114
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 4: to it. Yes, so never too much comes out. Eve

1115
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 4: is on the record, and that's how she met Manny

1116
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,439
Speaker 4: because Mannie was working for Troy Carter and Troy Carter

1117
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 4: was managing Eve, and that's how they all met and

1118
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 4: then we got we got The next record was this

1119
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 4: it's very strange beat. I couldn't make heads or tails

1120
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 4: of it. We were a record plant. It had this

1121
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 4: weird handclap. It was Kanye West and John Legend. Everybody

1122
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 4: was there and and me and I'm like, the sort

1123
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 4: of the music cup John played piano on it, and

1124
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 4: they had written this song. I changed my mind, yes,

1125
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 4: and like the first couple of nights working on it,

1126
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 4: I couldn't. It was like, there's a joke, where's one?

1127
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 4: Meaning I couldn't find that. I couldn't feel a downbeat, yeah,

1128
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 4: like I just yeah, I just couldn't feel it, and

1129
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 4: everybody else is feeling I couldn't feel. But then when

1130
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 4: I got it, it was like, oh, so it allowed

1131
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 4: me to put my hands on it on the rough

1132
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 4: mix in a way that it started to sound like

1133
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 4: something m h in the room. And if I'm not mistaken,

1134
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 4: the mix that not. No, I changed my mind. I

1135
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 4: think day mixed so so never too much comes out,

1136
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 4: doesn't get work really tanks. Next comes, I changed my mind.

1137
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 4: The song goes to number one in New York and

1138
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 4: nowhere else nowhere. It's not even a hit anywhere else,

1139
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 4: but in New York it's number one, which you cannot

1140
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 4: do that in your wildest dreams.

1141
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: You couldn't recreate that.

1142
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 4: Literally, jay z is number two.

1143
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,439
Speaker 3: It's the biggest mart is number one in because even

1144
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 3: at home, right, Like I would argue with our DJs

1145
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 3: at home and I'm like, yeah, I gotta support this.

1146
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 3: She's from home from the Bay Area. You have to

1147
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 3: get behind this. And like, I don't really know if

1148
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,439
Speaker 3: that record is it? You know what I mean, there's

1149
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 3: a weird record. It's okay, you know that's where I

1150
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 3: can And.

1151
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:44,919
Speaker 4: Then the video, which which you have this little story

1152
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 4: to tell about that.

1153
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, little story. Yeah.

1154
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 3: So every couple of months I get reminded about this,

1155
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 3: especially with this new age of the Internet, that no

1156
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 3: matter what I do in my life, I am forever

1157
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 3: a video ho.

1158
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: So you know, I changed my nub, I've changed my mind.

1159
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: I am I am the.

1160
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 3: Video ho or video guy or whatever you want to

1161
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:13,919
Speaker 3: put it. But going back to that video and back

1162
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 3: to that song. So I go sit with Keisha and

1163
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 3: she's playing me the album and she's like, this is

1164
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 3: this is my first single, and I'd be very honest,

1165
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 3: I'm like, where's Love?

1166
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: Once again?

1167
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, I know it's a ballot because the music

1168
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 3: industry we know how to go. You don't start with

1169
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 3: a ballot. You gotta go with a tempo record. And

1170
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 3: blah blah Blah's like, Yo, that record Love is a smash.

1171
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 3: Like She's like, no, I'm telling you, Jay, I'm like, well,

1172
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 3: they're the label, so I guess you gotta listen.

1173
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: I said, but I think love is your smash.

1174
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 3: And she's like, yeah, and one more thing, it's my

1175
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 3: single and I need you in the video. I'm like,

1176
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 3: well no, She's like, yes, you're in my video. I said, Keisha,

1177
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 3: I'm not in your video. Yes, you are going to

1178
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 3: play this other song. It's called Superstar and you're going

1179
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 3: to feature on it. We all know Keisha. When Keisha

1180
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,439
Speaker 3: makes up her mind, she's going to figure out how

1181
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 3: to make these things happen. So within all of this stuff,

1182
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 3: I end up meeting first Michelle Thomas, who worked with you.

1183
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 1: I think she was the GM at the time. Yeah,

1184
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 1: she was my right hand person.

1185
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 4: Had of artists AVOUM, but I mean we had a

1186
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 4: little six man team, so she was yeah, it was

1187
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 4: just us.

1188
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 3: And so I go meet with Michelle and Michelle's like, oh,

1189
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 3: if he's going to sing on my on your song,

1190
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 3: sing for me.

1191
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 1: Now.

1192
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 3: Somehow I went from being possibly a video hole to

1193
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 3: now auditioning and just me being who I am and

1194
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 3: just my personality.

1195
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, fuck it, I'll sing.

1196
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 3: So I sing for Michelle and Michelle's like, oh my god,

1197
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 3: you're going to be great on the song. You need

1198
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 3: to meet Ron Fair. I'm like, this is all in

1199
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 3: the same day too. I'm just bouncing perfect right. And

1200
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 3: they're like, well, he's mixing something or producing something that

1201
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 3: some studio go see him.

1202
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 1: Me and Manny riding around because Keisha's somewhere else.

1203
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 3: At this point, many takes me to meet you.

1204
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: You say the same thing.

1205
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, okay, Keisha's friend Kesha wants you on

1206
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 3: the record.

1207
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: I would make it happen.

1208
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 3: Oh and you're in the video, so I'm like, yo,

1209
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 3: had they talked about this shit.

1210
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: Before I got here?

1211
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 3: So long story short, video day happens, and I don't

1212
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 3: know if you remember this. During lunch at the video,

1213
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 3: you pulled me to the side and law and behold,

1214
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 3: I don't know how this ended up happening.

1215
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: I guess how the world works. You're like, Jay, you

1216
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: know Doug Mark.

1217
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1218
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 1: I'm like yes, my lawyers like yeah, he's my lawyer too.

1219
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 3: And Doug comes and he pulls up and I'm like,

1220
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 3: all right, so this is a full setup. And you're like, well,

1221
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 3: I said, so okay, so why why is our lawyer here?

1222
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1223
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 3: And you're like, well, our lawyer's here because we got

1224
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 3: to get a deal done. I'm like, what do you

1225
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 3: mean we got to get a deal done? I'm just

1226
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,919
Speaker 3: I'm here to shoot a video. You're like, no, You're

1227
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,919
Speaker 3: going to be on Superstar. And your words to me were,

1228
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 3: Keisha's a superstar. I'm gonna make her a superstar. And

1229
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 3: if I put you on the album with my superstar,

1230
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 3: you got to be my superstar too. And I'm like,

1231
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 3: and it's all calculating to me, and I'm like, he's

1232
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 3: making a lot of sense, I said, But I'm also

1233
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 3: caught off guard. Yeah right, because I think I had

1234
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 3: just hired Doug maybe a couple of months before.

1235
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:40,439
Speaker 1: So I'm like, now I'm cautious, and I'm like, am.

1236
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 3: I being set up or at this point being completely

1237
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 3: honest and transparent. I did not want to be an artist.

1238
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 3: I had already went through a phase where I was

1239
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 3: signed to a Lecture Records, it didn't work out. I

1240
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 3: just wanted to focus on being a songwriter. And by

1241
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 3: this point I had already made a boatload of money

1242
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 3: as a songwriter because I've written for Tyrese when he

1243
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 3: was on RCA, written I like Them Girls, written for

1244
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 3: in Sync at this point, and I'm in full underdog mode.

1245
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 3: We're doing all of our underdog this is what two

1246
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 3: thousand and five, we're in full mode. We're just we're

1247
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,919
Speaker 3: killing shit. And I'm like, I'm already in my mind

1248
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 3: at that age. I'm rich. I don't yeah, I don't

1249
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 3: want to do the artist things, and this is being

1250
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 3: thrown at me.

1251
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: Randomly.

1252
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 3: So I'm like, I don't know, and you tell me.

1253
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 3: You said, I can't put you on this song unless

1254
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 3: you're signed here. And a part of me was a

1255
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 3: little salty because I'm like, well, that's my homegirl and

1256
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 3: this is her album and she wants me on it.

1257
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: But the business side of it for me was he's

1258
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:52,439
Speaker 1: actually right.

1259
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 4: So to play defense when you're in that position, working

1260
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 4: at a record company or whatever it. The reason why

1261
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 4: I took that position is because it happened to me

1262
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 4: where I put an artist on an album and did

1263
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 4: not have her signed, and the song went to number

1264
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 4: one on Billboard and it was a song from reality

1265
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 4: but it's called Stay by Lisa Loebe Okay, So I

1266
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 4: wanted to sign Lisa Lobe, but I failed to do

1267
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 4: that for a lot of circumstantial reasons. The rule of

1268
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 4: thumb was don't put people on records without having something.

1269
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 4: If you can cover, if you can cover yourself. It

1270
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 4: wasn't meant to be draconian.

1271
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 3: And like I said, I completely I completely understood. I

1272
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 3: wasn't you know. I never felt a way about it.

1273
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 3: I'm just like it was a it was a learning experience.

1274
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 1: I love that.

1275
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 3: I love all that, you know what I mean, especially

1276
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 3: as I grew with the business and started to understand that.

1277
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 4: Well, let me go back to the to the chronology.

1278
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 4: So so I changed my mind because go out and

1279
01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 4: goes on to number one in New York but nowhere else,

1280
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 4: so we're kind of nowhere. We got this brick with

1281
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 4: Never too Much, which is a great record with Kish

1282
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 4: and then and then the Kanye John legend changed my mind.

1283
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 4: Was number one in Europe but nowhere else. And the

1284
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 4: next record was Over and Over, which was Alicia Keys.

1285
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 4: She wrote it, but Alicia Keys manager would not let

1286
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 4: us put Alicia Keys name on the name on it

1287
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 4: for whatever reason.

1288
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny about that one. I'm also in

1289
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: that video too, are you you are the video it? Yes,

1290
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 1: it was the continuation You're now a running character.

1291
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:35,240
Speaker 3: Because yes, in the first video I cheated on her,

1292
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 3: I get caught with the girl. I'm outside with a

1293
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 3: dow rag on coming out of bed with a fucking

1294
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 3: wife beater on it, the do rag looking ridiculous. And

1295
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 3: in the second video she sees me at the party,

1296
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 3: this is she kind of like, this is me.

1297
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 1: She looks like, yeah, whatever, he's whack.

1298
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 4: This is great trivia. So I guess I don't know.

1299
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 4: So over and over breaks the top forty on the

1300
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 4: urban radio chair, but it's yeah, now we got three bricks.

1301
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 4: Then Michelle Thomas, who we mentioned, who was my right

1302
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 4: hand person, said to me her quote from her great

1303
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 4: aunt from the stoop in somewhere in Louisiana, if you

1304
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 4: always do what you always did, you always get what

1305
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 4: you always got. It's like sorry, If you always do

1306
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 4: what you always did, you always get what you always got. Okay,

1307
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 4: what do you mean? Y'all are picking the wrong singles?

1308
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 4: Y'all a bunch of men picking the wrong singles. What

1309
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 4: do you think women are going to want to hear?

1310
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 4: You're picking the wrong singles? On Kisha Cole, the song

1311
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 4: should have cheated? Say what the song is?

1312
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: Should have cheated? Yeah, So we still.

1313
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 4: Had a budget and she made the call and I

1314
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 4: mixed that record.

1315
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: Well, hey, I finished it. I put strings on it.

1316
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 4: I put the spaghetti Western harmonica and the piano like

1317
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 4: it was.

1318
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 2: It was a.

1319
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 4: Collab, but it was a great record. And no one

1320
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 4: else had ever said that in the song, I might

1321
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 4: as well have cheated as much as you accuse me.

1322
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 4: That is the real shit that, that's the real thing

1323
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 4: where she was communicating to her to her people. Every

1324
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 4: girl could relate to that. I might as well have

1325
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 4: cheated as much as you accused me. I was like, wow, okay,

1326
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 4: no one ever said that in the song before. So

1327
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 4: so we put that out and what happens. Shit goes

1328
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 4: to number one changed everything, that record change. So I'm

1329
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 4: give you an anecdote. I go to Jimmy and then

1330
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 4: now we're at mister Chow's garnet, march the whole fucking

1331
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 4: urban staff. We're running up a gigantic bill, drinking crystal,

1332
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 4: eating crazy overpriced mister Chows, having parties. Yeah, extras, the

1333
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:44,640
Speaker 4: bell of the ball, like furs and looking like a

1334
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 4: movie star.

1335
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 1: She was doing it up, doing it up.

1336
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 4: So I was filled with this is amazing what we've done,

1337
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 4: you know, giving her voice a place in the culture

1338
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 4: with this music. And I went to Jimmy and I said,

1339
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:05,280
Speaker 4: you know, we really look good on the street because

1340
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 4: we stuck with it. We broke her on her fourth single.

1341
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 4: It's a great look for the label. It's a great

1342
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 4: thing to be proud of. And he said, what the

1343
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 4: fuck are you talking about? All that means is that

1344
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 4: you picked the wrong single three times? Now this with

1345
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:30,920
Speaker 4: this much distance, in this many years. Of course, I

1346
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 4: love him for saying the truth and that's his form

1347
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 4: of tough love. And then we put out Love with

1348
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 4: the with the I make up running down her cheek

1349
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 4: wearing the white fur, and it went bananas.

1350
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 3: You put fucking Tyres in a video, and now he

1351
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 3: gets to be at Tyres and I've been to two duds.

1352
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 4: Well, he is my spirit guide and later on in

1353
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 4: my life when I was at a very very low point,

1354
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,000
Speaker 4: Tyreese brought Eddie Lavert in and put me at a

1355
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 4: dinner to get my head screwed back on straight with

1356
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 4: my my spirit guy. Tyres is my spirit guide and

1357
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 4: my friend. I love him for that and I always will.

1358
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 4: We've never made music together, but you know, gentleman, were

1359
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 4: gentleman together. Yeah, Like he's the truth and he's a

1360
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:20,720
Speaker 4: very underrated for everything he's done. He's a magnificent talent, absolutely,

1361
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 4: so with regards to Keisha. Like so, this was in

1362
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 4: the meantime I was working on Maya. I did the

1363
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 4: album mood Ring with her and we had My Love

1364
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 4: is like Whoe and Maya was, you know, really holding

1365
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 4: her own in a lot of ways. Around that time,

1366
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 4: Keisha was really showing up late to a lot of

1367
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:43,560
Speaker 4: stuff and just kind of messing up and and it

1368
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 4: was a little bit of a train wreck. So my

1369
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 4: buddies Reggie, Reggie Hudlin and Byron Phillips, yeah BT.

1370
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 3: At the time it took over bet my sister was there.

1371
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:56,839
Speaker 3: Oh cool y Yeah, my sister wasn't executive a BT.

1372
01:10:57,160 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 4: And so I had the idea that instead of doing

1373
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 4: another music video for three hundred grand is what we

1374
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:04,479
Speaker 4: used to spend, that we could do a TV show

1375
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 4: and show the train wreck and like that that would

1376
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:11,840
Speaker 4: be the thing that Keisha's honest way that she walked

1377
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 4: through life would be great TV. And Jimmy said, if

1378
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 4: you can get them to match, I'll put up some

1379
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 4: of the money, but you got to get them to match.

1380
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 4: So Manny Haley and Keisha Cole and I went into

1381
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 4: be Et in New York and Reggie and Byron had

1382
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:30,880
Speaker 4: like they had just started, and they had a card table,

1383
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 4: like a collapsible card table, and folding chairs and a

1384
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 4: blank white erase board with a marker with nothing on it,

1385
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,800
Speaker 4: and they were planning the network right then and there.

1386
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 4: And I said, let's do a reality show on Keisha

1387
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 4: and they said yes, and Jimmy honored it and we

1388
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:51,759
Speaker 4: ended up with a giant hit TV show.

1389
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 1: Absolutely, James the boasted that he did.

1390
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:57,600
Speaker 4: You know, all of it is God's blessing because we

1391
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 4: just kept trying shit and I had the and I

1392
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 4: had the backing of the corporation and a boss who

1393
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:09,519
Speaker 4: who believed in my insanity. So around this time, working

1394
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:13,679
Speaker 4: with Maya, we had done a flip of the far Side,

1395
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 4: Can't Keep running Away. It's like a record that got away.

1396
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 4: That's a magnificent song. You know that record, Can't Keep

1397
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 4: running Away? Okay, So Maya does a version of it,

1398
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,919
Speaker 4: and it's got all my trademark stuff, crazy background vocals,

1399
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 4: big strings. Maya sounds like a million bucks. And I

1400
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 4: got a call out of the blue from Mary J.

1401
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 4: Blige I thought it was a pray, like, why is

1402
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 4: Mary J Blige calling me? Because Mary was on Geffen

1403
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 4: Keisha was on A and M, which was my unit.

1404
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 4: But Mary calls up and says, this maya shit is crazy?

1405
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:48,599
Speaker 4: You did this? Yeah, thank you so much. It's great

1406
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 4: to talk to you, and and and she was a

1407
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 4: fan of the song. So later on down the road,

1408
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 4: Mary had turned in an album that had the very

1409
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 4: first version of Be Without You on it. Okay, and

1410
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:05,679
Speaker 4: a guy basically a guy who who was a marketing

1411
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 4: guy who was Mary's marketing guy and named Paul Kremen

1412
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 4: and step Johnson sent me that first version of B

1413
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 4: Without You and said, you know, what do you think?

1414
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 1: And I said, it's not my problem. I'm A and M.

1415
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:19,959
Speaker 4: You guys are Keeffen right, Like, this isn't my problem.

1416
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 4: Like I don't know what you what do you? Why

1417
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 4: do you? Why you asking me what I think when

1418
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 4: I mean it doesn't matter, like Mary's signed to you guys.

1419
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 4: I don't know what to say. Then Jimmy called and said,

1420
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 4: I don't care what you think. You you work for

1421
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 4: you work for me. Tell them what what do you

1422
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 4: think of the song? So I now I analyzed the

1423
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 4: song and it was like, Okay, there's some flaws here.

1424
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 4: The harmony in the chorus like it. Basically, the song's

1425
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 4: a G minor, so you have G, B, flatt and D.

1426
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 4: Those are the three notes that make the three part harmony.

1427
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 4: She's singing in C minor. Okay, she's singing the wrong

1428
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 4: chord change on the hook. She's singing him great, but

1429
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 4: that's not right. Yeah, So there was some other problems

1430
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:02,759
Speaker 4: with it. So the next thing that happened was Jimmy

1431
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 4: called me back and he said, we're going to do

1432
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 4: Mary J. Blige's greatest hits. It's the it's the fourth

1433
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 4: quarter big record.

1434
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: We need it.

1435
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 4: You need to get in the studio with Mary and

1436
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 4: fix the song. So I went to New York and

1437
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 4: Mary showed up and it was a love fest and

1438
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 4: she showed me so much respect, and we did all

1439
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 4: the background vocals, all the lead vocals, and it came

1440
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 4: to life in front of my eyes and the whole time,

1441
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 4: what do you think I'm channeling the OJS? And there's

1442
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 4: Mary J Blige, you know, the singer of No More

1443
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:40,360
Speaker 4: Drama and Family. Yes, And I had already made ten

1444
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:43,040
Speaker 4: records with Keisha and Maya and like, and I had

1445
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:45,160
Speaker 4: worked with Natalie Cole, like, this is Mary J Blige,

1446
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 4: this is fucking Elvis, right.

1447
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 1: This is this? Is it? Absolutely?

1448
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:52,600
Speaker 4: And then I put a string arrangement on it and

1449
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 4: then Dave mixed it and everybody heard it. And then

1450
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:02,559
Speaker 4: Jimmy said, it's not gonna be a greatest hits album.

1451
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 4: I need you to go through the whole album is

1452
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:09,800
Speaker 4: shifted and fix it all in a month. And it

1453
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 4: was like it was like September and it's December is

1454
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:13,760
Speaker 4: the release date?

1455
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 2: Right?

1456
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 4: By the way, here's this track of you two from

1457
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:19,640
Speaker 4: a sound check. She can sing a duet of the

1458
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:23,640
Speaker 4: song one Love put her on that and finish that,

1459
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 4: which became her first number one in England.

1460
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 3: And I'm sure you have as an executive, you have

1461
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 3: your things at A and M that you're still trying

1462
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 3: to finish as well.

1463
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1464
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:36,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, but but Mary took over my life and rightfully so,

1465
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:39,559
Speaker 4: and every I learned so much from her because she

1466
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 4: used to say, like, it's all about what I'm talking about.

1467
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,680
Speaker 4: It's all about what I'm talking about. It's like, what

1468
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 4: what what does that mean? It's all about what I'm

1469
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:49,720
Speaker 4: talking It's like the words ron the words, that's what

1470
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:51,720
Speaker 4: they're hearing, that's what they want to hear from me,

1471
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 4: what I'm talking about, all that other shit you're doing cool,

1472
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 4: And it was like, oh, I'm learning to see it

1473
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 4: through her eyes and to frame the vocal in a

1474
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 4: way that the message. So then it became can't keep

1475
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,839
Speaker 4: a good woman down. Take me as I am enough crying,

1476
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 4: Take me as I am, Take me as I am

1477
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 4: as genius. So so let me tell you a little

1478
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 4: bit the story of that. So Erica Grayson used to

1479
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:20,599
Speaker 4: do A and R for me. She found that song

1480
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 4: and it.

1481
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 3: Was if I yeah, Zeke Lewis, Yeah, who now he's

1482
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 3: running the table the label mohammed Yeah yeah.

1483
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:34,200
Speaker 4: And so so she plays me the song and it's

1484
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 4: like the album is done. This is the album's rap,

1485
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:39,439
Speaker 4: Like we're mastered. Where Mary's like in a limo somewhere

1486
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 4: going to an event in a in a gown.

1487
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 1: She hears the record.

1488
01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 4: She literally turns the limo around and meets me in

1489
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:49,799
Speaker 4: the studio in New York City and sings the record

1490
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 4: that night.

1491
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's hype of record urgency.

1492
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:56,600
Speaker 4: And again it's all about what I'm talking about, Like

1493
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 4: her words are burning in my head? And what is

1494
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 4: she saying on that song? Take me as I am

1495
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 4: or nothing, anything at all. It's like, Wow, this is

1496
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 4: what her audience wants to say to the people in

1497
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 4: their life, right, Take me as I am or nothing

1498
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:17,920
Speaker 4: at all. So the whole framing of it, of the

1499
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 4: R and B and the community and by the way,

1500
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 4: songs can be dumb, they can be fun, they can

1501
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 4: be you know, woo there. It is like it doesn't matter.

1502
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 4: But the communication element of like what are we talking about?

1503
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:28,920
Speaker 4: And then what is the music? What is the beat?

1504
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:31,479
Speaker 4: What is the harmony? What is the whole thing? That's

1505
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:37,600
Speaker 4: like that alchemy is everything to me, you know. And

1506
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 4: so I'm still at age seventy one, that same exact guy. Yeah,

1507
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 4: but in a changed landscape where things like TikTok can

1508
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:53,040
Speaker 4: confuse the industry with believing that clicks and views.

1509
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 3: Means mean connection mean everything more so because they do

1510
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 3: mean something, they don't mean something. But I think it's

1511
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:00,040
Speaker 3: one of those things where and I've said in a

1512
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:04,480
Speaker 3: meetings and I've had those conversations where it becomes everything

1513
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 3: and it's that's not everything.

1514
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 4: Well, I sound like a hater because you know, I'm

1515
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 4: an old guy, and it came from a different period

1516
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 4: where it was just the music, music and the music.

1517
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 4: But it's a component, yes, And I'll tell you going

1518
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 4: forward in my life, and I hope to do so

1519
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 4: much more. I don't want to be defined by the

1520
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:24,000
Speaker 4: wonderful things I was able to accomplish. Like you know,

1521
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:26,400
Speaker 4: Vanessa Carlton's record is still so huge, but like that

1522
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 4: can't be my epitaph, Jay, that just can't be it.

1523
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:33,719
Speaker 4: There has to be more chapters. But that same kid

1524
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:36,679
Speaker 4: that I was, that was given that record by Bill

1525
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 4: Conti in front of his friends at age twenty two,

1526
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,759
Speaker 4: this is who I am now. I'm just smarter and wiser.

1527
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:46,800
Speaker 4: And the elements of the game make me think that

1528
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:48,720
Speaker 4: the business that we're in today.

1529
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 1: Is not the music business.

1530
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 4: It's the star business, and that the people that are

1531
01:18:54,400 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 4: the the brightest lights. Ray Brunemar's, John Legend, Morgan Wallen,

1532
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:08,639
Speaker 4: Jelly Roll, Money Long, name any of them, they're stars. Yeah,

1533
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:11,720
Speaker 4: and the and the music and what we do, what

1534
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:14,880
Speaker 4: I do is the fuel. It's the jet fuel. But

1535
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 4: you don't fly the fuel. You fly the plane, and

1536
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 4: the plane is the star. So Okay, what's next for you?

1537
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 4: And how do you see it in this phase? Truthfully,

1538
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:32,640
Speaker 4: I don't have a snappy answer to that. I just

1539
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:36,680
Speaker 4: hope that what's next for me is more. Yeah, you know,

1540
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:40,400
Speaker 4: because my appetite, the thrill that comes from like the

1541
01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:44,559
Speaker 4: three part harmony or the dope rub in the in

1542
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:47,880
Speaker 4: the background vocal or whatever, that same thrill that I get,

1543
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 4: it's like a drug. I gotta have more. So, you know,

1544
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 4: whether it's being able to be lucky enough to continue

1545
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:57,599
Speaker 4: to work with some of the great artists I've worked with,

1546
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:01,000
Speaker 4: or or find that next girl with a tear in

1547
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:05,160
Speaker 4: her voice and an authentic thing that you know, I

1548
01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 4: can bring my skills to help an artist elevate and

1549
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,400
Speaker 4: learn to see through their eyes. Like it's still a

1550
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:18,160
Speaker 4: fucking thrill, man. So I hope to die in the gig.

1551
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 4: That would be the perfect fitting at the perfect ending

1552
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:25,639
Speaker 4: for me, Like saying on talkback, let's try that again

1553
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 4: this time a little bit acting out a little bit more,

1554
01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:31,439
Speaker 4: that would be the.

1555
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:34,559
Speaker 3: Perfect Now, you're a real music guy, and that is

1556
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 3: to be honored and respected. From our beginning of our

1557
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:42,559
Speaker 3: conversation when I told you, like, it's real admiration for

1558
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 3: what you've done and what you're doing, you.

1559
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:47,360
Speaker 1: Know what I mean. And because it's for me.

1560
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:50,719
Speaker 3: I light up when I sit with people like yourself,

1561
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 3: because I know it's from a pure place. This isn't

1562
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:57,160
Speaker 3: about anything else for you but the music. And that's

1563
01:20:57,280 --> 01:20:57,839
Speaker 3: very important.

1564
01:20:57,960 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 4: You know. I was able to combine it with the

1565
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 4: corporate enrichment and and and and you definitely got all that,

1566
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:09,280
Speaker 4: all that along the along the way, and and but

1567
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:11,559
Speaker 4: it's changed now. You know, I'm a father, I've got

1568
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:13,759
Speaker 4: four children. They're they're they're going off to college.

1569
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 1: Uh, it's different. You know.

1570
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:28,840
Speaker 4: Recently, I I was able to somebody will I Am

1571
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 4: spoke at an AI conference and and gave me a

1572
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 4: lot of credit for what happened with the Black Eyed Peas,

1573
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 4: which was basically happened. I mean, I stumbled into that, Dave,

1574
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:40,920
Speaker 4: And so to introduce me to will I Am.

1575
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:42,599
Speaker 1: You do a lot of stuff.

1576
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:46,640
Speaker 4: You keep yourself open, You come in with no preconceived

1577
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:49,759
Speaker 4: notion like something great could happen today, Like you just

1578
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 4: just show up and have your your.

1579
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 1: Brain open and listen.

1580
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:57,800
Speaker 4: And Uh, anyway, Dave introduced me to will I played

1581
01:21:57,840 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 4: vibraphone on a record. Like before Fergi was in the

1582
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:01,680
Speaker 4: and it ended up with me being the an R

1583
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:03,680
Speaker 4: guy for the Black Eyed Peas and Forgie joining in

1584
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:05,600
Speaker 4: the group and where is the Love and adding the

1585
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:08,760
Speaker 4: strings to it and making records with will you Know

1586
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:12,639
Speaker 4: the But the master stroke of the Black Eyed Peas

1587
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:15,400
Speaker 4: story is not the records that we made, which are wonderful,

1588
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:20,639
Speaker 4: It was learning the value of counter intuition as a human.

1589
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:24,920
Speaker 4: So when you're when you're dealing with this decision making,

1590
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:28,000
Speaker 4: like a musical situation or any situation in life, and

1591
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:29,439
Speaker 4: your your brain is a what would I do?

1592
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:29,840
Speaker 1: What would I do?

1593
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:30,719
Speaker 4: What's what's the solution?

1594
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:31,320
Speaker 1: What's the solution?

1595
01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 4: What would I do?

1596
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:33,080
Speaker 1: How do I handle? What would I do?

1597
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 4: That's only half the picture. The other half is what

1598
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:38,720
Speaker 4: wouldn't I do? What doesn't make sense? What am I

1599
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 4: going to avoid? So when it came to the Black

1600
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:44,880
Speaker 4: Eyed Peas on the tour that broke the song, which

1601
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 4: was justin Timberlake, Christina Aguilera and the Black Eyed Peas,

1602
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:50,479
Speaker 4: I was able to get them on the tour because

1603
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 4: of my relationship with Christina and her manager, But it

1604
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:57,080
Speaker 4: was too late to print the name the Black Eyed

1605
01:22:57,080 --> 01:22:59,320
Speaker 4: Peas on the ticket or any of the promotional materials

1606
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,000
Speaker 4: too late and it was going to cost a lot

1607
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:04,720
Speaker 4: of money to do the tour, and Irving as Off,

1608
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 4: Christina's manager at the time, said, are you sure Ron

1609
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:10,800
Speaker 4: that you want to do this knowing that you're not

1610
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:13,240
Speaker 4: going to have any mention at all of the Black

1611
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:16,400
Speaker 4: Eyed Peas at all as the opening act. And I

1612
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:21,000
Speaker 4: thought to myself, Fuck, yeah, I'm sure because I knew.

1613
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 4: I knew that if it said justin to Lake Christina

1614
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:25,880
Speaker 4: Aguilier are Black Eyed Peas eight o'clock, people are shown

1615
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:28,080
Speaker 4: up at nine. No one wants to see the opener.

1616
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:31,680
Speaker 1: They haven't heard, so's because of time thinking it's not opening.

1617
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:36,120
Speaker 4: Exactly so because their name wasn't on the ticket at

1618
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:38,800
Speaker 4: eight o'clock, thinking Christina was going to go on, the

1619
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 4: Black Eyed Peas went on and I and we had

1620
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:45,520
Speaker 4: an understanding, me and will do Where's the Love last?

1621
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:47,600
Speaker 4: Because we've got to make sure the most people that

1622
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 4: could possibly show up are there to hear the song.

1623
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:54,599
Speaker 4: So I was building on radio, building on radio. It worked,

1624
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 4: and then because it was a giant hit that Justin

1625
01:23:57,400 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 4: co wrote, he brought them back out in his set

1626
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 4: at nine thirty again. So the intrusion of my friends,

1627
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:07,120
Speaker 4: the Black Eyed Peas, and they came out people killing

1628
01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:09,880
Speaker 4: people dying, Yeah, and Justin sang it with them and

1629
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 4: we broke the group. And it was because their name

1630
01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:14,839
Speaker 4: was well the song was a hit, yeah, but because

1631
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:18,280
Speaker 4: of the idea that that what wouldn't I do could

1632
01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:22,360
Speaker 4: be part of the reasoning changed my life to examine

1633
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 4: decision making prismatically, like the prism that you hold up

1634
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 4: to the light and it shows the rainbow that that's

1635
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 4: a part of the that's a part of the thought process,

1636
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:36,559
Speaker 4: and it's a synapse. It's not just a contrivance. It's

1637
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:40,320
Speaker 4: like a synapse, like a reflex. So it's always baked

1638
01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 4: into me after that, like to just make sure I

1639
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 4: police myself, like, Okay.

1640
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:44,880
Speaker 1: What would I do? What am I gonna do?

1641
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 4: When I going to one not gonna do?

1642
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:48,280
Speaker 1: And weave it in and weave it in.

1643
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:53,360
Speaker 3: Man, listen, your story or the journey is incredible, and

1644
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 3: it is you really gave a masterclass today of what

1645
01:24:57,120 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 3: it is to be a real music man.

1646
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 1: To be a producer.

1647
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:04,479
Speaker 3: Like that is very important because you know, obviously we

1648
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:08,440
Speaker 3: have these conversations about the beat maker and the producer

1649
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:10,840
Speaker 3: and this that and the other, and people don't really

1650
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 3: know how to put them in proper context. I would suggest,

1651
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:19,320
Speaker 3: if you are a young producer, are aspiring to be one,

1652
01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:23,160
Speaker 3: you really watched this episode and really because the things

1653
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:26,799
Speaker 3: you talked about from your placement, how the things you

1654
01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:29,920
Speaker 3: put in place that the people you got involved.

1655
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:34,080
Speaker 4: So the of course I knew it instinctively because again,

1656
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:37,160
Speaker 4: like the OJ's really started the ball rolling for but

1657
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:39,479
Speaker 4: I had made records before that. But the framing of

1658
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 4: the vocal and the idea of it's all about what

1659
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:46,360
Speaker 4: I'm talking about, Like, that's the takeaway. It's my daughter

1660
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 4: who doesn't know who the artists are but.

1661
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 1: Knows every word of every story.

1662
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's that's what they're hearing nowt you gotta

1663
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 4: have a great beat, you gotta have a great make sure.

1664
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:57,439
Speaker 1: All that sure part part of the deal what they're

1665
01:25:57,439 --> 01:25:57,920
Speaker 1: talking about.

1666
01:25:58,000 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 4: But what are you talking about? So like, if you

1667
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:02,439
Speaker 4: were to go through my records and say, well, what

1668
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 4: is Ron fair sound? Like? I don't have a sound,

1669
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:07,240
Speaker 4: but there's one thing in common. The vocals are all

1670
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 4: fucking slamming, they're loud, they're proud. Matter of fact, I

1671
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 4: did two jazz albums with Queen Latifa totally on. People

1672
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 4: don't even know She's like Sarah vaugh Dinah Washington. Queen

1673
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 4: Latifa is one of the great jazz singers on the planets. Okay,

1674
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:25,280
Speaker 4: So I did the album called the Dana Owens Album

1675
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:27,640
Speaker 4: and I did the album called Traveling Light. Both of

1676
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:31,160
Speaker 4: them sold a million copies. Her version of poetry Man,

1677
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:34,240
Speaker 4: her vocal is so damn loud on there, and it

1678
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:36,720
Speaker 4: was glorious. I kept I thought like, yeah, like, you

1679
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 4: know what, it's so much louder than the track. But

1680
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:43,759
Speaker 4: this is so great because this is everything, and it's

1681
01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 4: something that follows in all my stuff. It's like the

1682
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 4: vocals are just they're everything and the music is good.

1683
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:53,599
Speaker 4: But that's that's really the hallmark of them all. Whether

1684
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:56,040
Speaker 4: it was a Dina Menzel or Darren Chris or Fergie

1685
01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 4: or the new record I just did with Nicole or

1686
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:01,559
Speaker 4: it's always the same thing. The vocal is the law

1687
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 4: and it's the whole message. I wanted to tell one

1688
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 4: funny story because I know that probably because of the

1689
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:11,280
Speaker 4: movie White Chicks, the Vanessa Carlton record Thousand Miles, so

1690
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:14,400
Speaker 4: it's so baked into everybody. Yeah, So when I had

1691
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:17,280
Speaker 4: the demo of the song the big string parts.

1692
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:18,000
Speaker 1: The down bow.

1693
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:24,880
Speaker 4: That I orchestrated was originally a wah wah guitar on

1694
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:27,000
Speaker 4: the demo working to walk at.

1695
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:29,719
Speaker 1: You one yeah yeah yeah.

1696
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:32,960
Speaker 4: Walk And so like the idea came from. Oh it

1697
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:36,479
Speaker 4: was in the hole in the most elegant place. But

1698
01:27:36,520 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 4: I thought, let's dramatize this and and uh do it

1699
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:45,920
Speaker 4: all on downbow. So it's twenty four strings all on,

1700
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:48,720
Speaker 4: all on down bow doing the wah yeah. And that's

1701
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 4: how that came about.

1702
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:52,519
Speaker 1: All right.

1703
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:54,080
Speaker 3: So since I got you here, man, we got we

1704
01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:56,720
Speaker 3: got some special special parts of the show Man, and

1705
01:27:56,760 --> 01:27:58,599
Speaker 3: I you know, I want to get you involved in man,

1706
01:27:59,000 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 3: Tank said something.

1707
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 1: In for you? Oh really yeah, because we want we want,

1708
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 1: we want to know some things. So rude man, what's

1709
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:06,760
Speaker 1: what you got for us? Man? Can we turn that?

1710
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 4: Harh farve?

1711
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:11,120
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1712
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 1: Your top five?

1713
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:16,360
Speaker 2: Top five?

1714
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:29,240
Speaker 1: You are beasing us all and me songs. We got

1715
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:34,680
Speaker 1: to know before you go there wrong this show. Everybody

1716
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:35,640
Speaker 1: want they want to know.

1717
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:47,720
Speaker 4: Yes, top f's hilarious.

1718
01:28:50,960 --> 01:29:01,200
Speaker 2: You top five, it's good.

1719
01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:05,000
Speaker 3: So first round. As a as a producer, you wouldn't

1720
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:05,960
Speaker 3: have made him re sing that.

1721
01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:11,960
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's joyful. Noise right there. I think

1722
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:13,600
Speaker 1: that might have been the first time somebody called it

1723
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:14,439
Speaker 1: joyful noise.

1724
01:29:15,160 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 3: So like take said, we want to know, uh, your

1725
01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:22,080
Speaker 3: top five R and B singers and R and B songs.

1726
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:23,519
Speaker 1: So I don't know if I can put them in

1727
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:24,960
Speaker 1: order and that I can limit it to five.

1728
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:28,160
Speaker 4: I have to start. I don't want to say he's

1729
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:31,320
Speaker 4: the number one sop, but I have to start my list.

1730
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:33,599
Speaker 1: No order, no order to Bill Withers.

1731
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 4: Yes, let's just start with that. Okay, okay, okay, this

1732
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:43,120
Speaker 4: guy with this acoustic guitar, the simplicity, the tonality, and

1733
01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:47,960
Speaker 4: then the masterpiece of just the two of us with

1734
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 4: those Stevie kind of changes Washington. So Bill Withers is

1735
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 4: like just like on top, he's incredible. I mean, it's

1736
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:04,040
Speaker 4: a little hard to say because because of who I've

1737
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:06,640
Speaker 4: worked with and it's more than R and B. But

1738
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 4: I would say Natalie.

1739
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:12,600
Speaker 3: Cole, Yeah, yeah, I met Natalie Cole one time. She

1740
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:13,760
Speaker 3: was so regal, like.

1741
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:15,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I I got to work with her

1742
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:20,800
Speaker 4: and she was in my life and again, like you know,

1743
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 4: the test of time can be cool whatever the Natalie

1744
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:28,120
Speaker 4: Cole for sure. I mean, of course I've already talked

1745
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:32,439
Speaker 4: about Eddie Lavert and Walt Williams together the OJS. Yeah,

1746
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:37,160
Speaker 4: I mean I I don't know that I can personally

1747
01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 4: get in well. I mean I can't do just five

1748
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 4: be Mary with Mary J. Blige of course, Keisha Cole

1749
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:47,120
Speaker 4: Fantasia TLC.

1750
01:30:47,840 --> 01:30:53,040
Speaker 1: Okay, you know you have more, uh, because you had

1751
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:53,720
Speaker 1: about top eight.

1752
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:58,960
Speaker 4: Now, funny how it's mostly women. I mean, I got

1753
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:03,280
Speaker 4: to give it up for Tyrese my spirit Guide and

1754
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 4: on the vintage tip. You know I think I've hit it.

1755
01:31:07,000 --> 01:31:10,439
Speaker 1: I don't right now.

1756
01:31:10,479 --> 01:31:12,919
Speaker 4: I always go I always go back to Bill Withers,

1757
01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:15,599
Speaker 4: by the way, you know, going through my life story,

1758
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:17,759
Speaker 4: there's somebody that I didn't mention that I need to because,

1759
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:20,479
Speaker 4: as I told you, step and Garnett were encouraging me

1760
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:23,560
Speaker 4: to keep making these records. I actually signed l DeBarge

1761
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 4: and made an album with him called Second Chance that

1762
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:28,759
Speaker 4: he got two Grammy nominations for. And I co produced

1763
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:30,920
Speaker 4: a record with Mike City that Faith Evans and El

1764
01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:33,760
Speaker 4: DeBarge had a number one record with like stuff that

1765
01:31:33,760 --> 01:31:35,400
Speaker 4: that I did that you can't even understand, Like how

1766
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:37,840
Speaker 4: did he fucking fall into all this stuff? I just

1767
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:41,840
Speaker 4: followed my impulse But another guy who the whole time

1768
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 4: was telling me, don't matter whether you're white, Valley Jewett,

1769
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:47,120
Speaker 4: none of that shit matters to keep doing it was

1770
01:31:47,120 --> 01:31:51,200
Speaker 4: Clarence Avante. And he was, you know, the wind beneath

1771
01:31:51,320 --> 01:31:54,800
Speaker 4: so many people's wings in the culture, you know, whether

1772
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:57,160
Speaker 4: it's Jam and Lewis or La Red or whatever. The

1773
01:31:57,200 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 4: Clarence was was the was him. The guy was the godfather,

1774
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:03,840
Speaker 4: like he literally was. And and I got to know

1775
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:05,600
Speaker 4: him and love him, and he was like rotten. You know,

1776
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:07,559
Speaker 4: I don't know what the fuck you're smoking, but this

1777
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 4: is that's good you're doing it. And uh and that meant.

1778
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:12,800
Speaker 1: So much to me.

1779
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:18,880
Speaker 4: And rest in peace. Absolutely one of the if we

1780
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:22,000
Speaker 4: don't save the names, then they go poof into the ether.

1781
01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:24,600
Speaker 4: And at least from the standpoint of of of the

1782
01:32:24,640 --> 01:32:27,880
Speaker 4: people watching the show, and we mentioned the names, you know,

1783
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:28,719
Speaker 4: to honor them.

1784
01:32:29,040 --> 01:32:32,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, all right. Top five R and B songs,

1785
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:33,640
Speaker 1: Top five R and B.

1786
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:36,639
Speaker 4: I've never been asked that before R and B songs.

1787
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:41,519
Speaker 1: They ain't no stopping us now for sure. Yeah. Yeah,

1788
01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:43,360
Speaker 1: I found white Jam.

1789
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:46,120
Speaker 4: Okay, I think we are family. I think that's more

1790
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:49,240
Speaker 4: than R and B though, that's that's ubiquitous.

1791
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:51,040
Speaker 1: But it's I'm holding it on to it, so I

1792
01:32:51,080 --> 01:32:52,960
Speaker 1: love that. Okay. I was.

1793
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 4: Scrolling last night and uh and there was some old

1794
01:32:58,200 --> 01:33:01,519
Speaker 4: Chic things that came up, and I just thought, I'm

1795
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:05,880
Speaker 4: gonna study Bernard Edwards bass parts and make that the

1796
01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:10,160
Speaker 4: basis of songs like that guy another Rest in Peace.

1797
01:33:10,240 --> 01:33:12,760
Speaker 4: What a badass he was. Man, go listen to the

1798
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:19,240
Speaker 4: baselines on on on Chic and it's like, oh my god,

1799
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 4: you know, and all of course, so definitely we are

1800
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:25,040
Speaker 4: a family and and uh, ain't no stopping us. Now

1801
01:33:26,280 --> 01:33:28,800
Speaker 4: I've got to say backstabbers.

1802
01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:32,400
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. If they want to take your place.

1803
01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:35,280
Speaker 4: Honestly, I'm gonna go with it for once in my life.

1804
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:41,000
Speaker 4: See touch Me in the Morning, Mmm, I mean there's

1805
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:44,799
Speaker 4: gotta be Supremes and Smokey and all that stuff woven

1806
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 4: in because you know, as a kid in the sixties,

1807
01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:50,559
Speaker 4: like that's that was all filtering every day. But Touch

1808
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:53,439
Speaker 4: Me in the Morning with the tempo change, you know,

1809
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:56,559
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know that artists like I'll tell

1810
01:33:56,560 --> 01:33:58,080
Speaker 4: you that my dream artist when you're ask him like,

1811
01:33:58,120 --> 01:33:59,680
Speaker 4: what what is your dream? What project do you want

1812
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:02,799
Speaker 4: to do? Now? Lionel Richie, I want to make.

1813
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:05,520
Speaker 1: This would make an amazing I told.

1814
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:07,759
Speaker 4: His manager that I know what I wanted to be about.

1815
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:09,720
Speaker 4: I want to be I know what that I want

1816
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:12,240
Speaker 4: the album to be called based on an old movie title.

1817
01:34:12,400 --> 01:34:15,840
Speaker 4: Let no Man write my epitaph, Lionel. I'm waiting for

1818
01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:19,080
Speaker 4: you to call. Come on, let no man write my

1819
01:34:19,160 --> 01:34:26,320
Speaker 4: epitaph album. An album about legacy, about what we leave behind.

1820
01:34:28,439 --> 01:34:32,200
Speaker 4: It doesn't have to be morose, but an album from

1821
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,840
Speaker 4: one of the greatest of all time. I mean all

1822
01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:37,519
Speaker 4: night long. I mean, some of these records that we

1823
01:34:37,640 --> 01:34:41,840
Speaker 4: call R and B are so much more, but they

1824
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:45,639
Speaker 4: could they come from that, that's their origin. But Lionel,

1825
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:48,640
Speaker 4: Richie man, if in your imagination, if you think of

1826
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:51,160
Speaker 4: the one more to leave on the Earth, to leave

1827
01:34:51,200 --> 01:34:56,200
Speaker 4: the planet with, like the Artemis Moonshot Dark Side of

1828
01:34:56,240 --> 01:35:01,719
Speaker 4: the Moonship that we just saw, he's my mean project, rich.

1829
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:05,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. Okay, So now we're we got

1830
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:10,280
Speaker 3: a we got another part where you build your ultimate

1831
01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:14,080
Speaker 3: R and B singer right from from top to bottom.

1832
01:35:14,080 --> 01:35:16,479
Speaker 3: We called the Voltron where you take the you know,

1833
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:20,000
Speaker 3: different different pieces from different artists, you put them together.

1834
01:35:20,080 --> 01:35:25,400
Speaker 3: You make this ultimate superhero R and B Superstar, and

1835
01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:28,400
Speaker 3: we start with we go from the vocals, who's the

1836
01:35:28,439 --> 01:35:34,120
Speaker 3: singer the stage performance? Who got the best performance? Uh

1837
01:35:34,160 --> 01:35:36,800
Speaker 3: the drip as you have on today? Who got the

1838
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:42,799
Speaker 3: best styling? And who's the most passionate you put those together?

1839
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:45,720
Speaker 3: Who are Okay, we're gonna start from the first time.

1840
01:35:46,280 --> 01:35:50,280
Speaker 3: Who's your singer? If you're putting together the super super

1841
01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:50,840
Speaker 3: R and.

1842
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:54,800
Speaker 4: B singer Priscilla money Long you're putting money Long Di

1843
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:55,400
Speaker 4: long shot.

1844
01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:59,160
Speaker 3: Yeah okay, okay, and you went you went to Priscilla too.

1845
01:35:59,479 --> 01:36:01,759
Speaker 3: You ain't start with the money on Priscilla.

1846
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:03,479
Speaker 4: No, no, no, that girl is.

1847
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:08,800
Speaker 3: Special the truth. I agree, I absolutely agree. Okay, So

1848
01:36:08,840 --> 01:36:09,840
Speaker 3: who got the performance?

1849
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:10,439
Speaker 1: Mary?

1850
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:13,920
Speaker 4: Mary's gets down on her knees and she grinds it

1851
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:16,960
Speaker 4: out and she brings the audience with her down and

1852
01:36:17,160 --> 01:36:21,080
Speaker 4: lifts them up and can be humorous and joyful and

1853
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 4: pathetic and painful. That's why she's so huge. She is

1854
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:29,599
Speaker 4: the megaphone for everybody's feelings.

1855
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:35,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, she's the megaphone for everybody's feelings. Absolutely, Okay. Now,

1856
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:38,679
Speaker 3: who's gonna put on the fly ship? What's the artist

1857
01:36:38,720 --> 01:36:39,160
Speaker 3: gonna look like?

1858
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:44,320
Speaker 1: Elegant elegant international.

1859
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:49,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, the ponytail everlasting mm hmm, absolutely iconic.

1860
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:54,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, she's another like just I mean, let us

1861
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:59,200
Speaker 4: never forget her ever Yeah. And you know there's only

1862
01:36:59,400 --> 01:37:01,960
Speaker 4: it's such a unique thing like Weathers is unique, Like

1863
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:03,000
Speaker 4: she's like unique.

1864
01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:06,040
Speaker 3: Like that absolutely Okay, Now, who has the passion that

1865
01:37:06,080 --> 01:37:07,280
Speaker 3: you want to put into this artist?

1866
01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:11,519
Speaker 1: Dasia sweating by song too?

1867
01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:16,080
Speaker 3: Maybe she's probably sweating and shoes off and yeah, yeah, yeah,

1868
01:37:16,120 --> 01:37:16,479
Speaker 3: I got you.

1869
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:21,000
Speaker 4: And Tasa just goes through. She can connect her voice

1870
01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:26,559
Speaker 4: to the inner feelings and she I mean, I've seen

1871
01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:27,639
Speaker 4: her take the roof off.

1872
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:29,760
Speaker 1: Shit, I made two records with her.

1873
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:36,160
Speaker 3: Who is Ron Fair hiring to produce it? To produce

1874
01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:38,479
Speaker 3: this artist? What producer do you want?

1875
01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:41,400
Speaker 4: Jimmy and Terry wo.

1876
01:37:43,280 --> 01:37:44,880
Speaker 1: Ah? Yeah.

1877
01:37:44,920 --> 01:37:46,880
Speaker 4: Now the reason why, I mean, you know, like the

1878
01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:48,599
Speaker 4: more I think about, like I'm not on the spot

1879
01:37:48,720 --> 01:37:53,000
Speaker 4: like to pick songs like on Bended Knee is the

1880
01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:57,959
Speaker 4: Encyclopedia Britannica of kay agree that ship is so powerful.

1881
01:37:58,320 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 4: It's it's like classical music. So Jimmy and Terry were.

1882
01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:06,080
Speaker 1: I mean, did jim and Terry?

1883
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:13,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're just like literally Godzilla and Mathra Monsters.

1884
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:14,360
Speaker 3: Now they just made my day. The other day they

1885
01:38:14,360 --> 01:38:16,400
Speaker 3: shouted me out in the interview. I'm like, oh, this

1886
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:18,679
Speaker 3: is great. I got shouted out by Jimmy and Terry.

1887
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:21,599
Speaker 3: This is amazing. I've done it.

1888
01:38:21,680 --> 01:38:22,280
Speaker 1: I've done it.

1889
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 3: Okay, So I got one more segment for you before

1890
01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:27,160
Speaker 3: I let you go keep playing something.

1891
01:38:27,400 --> 01:38:29,560
Speaker 4: Well, let's add let's add one all before to the

1892
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:32,439
Speaker 4: superstar R and b act. I mean, I didn't say Keisha,

1893
01:38:32,479 --> 01:38:34,680
Speaker 4: but she is my heart and she's my girl. And

1894
01:38:34,720 --> 01:38:37,800
Speaker 4: of course in her movie that we got made her.

1895
01:38:37,720 --> 01:38:39,720
Speaker 1: Biopick that she also is playing it.

1896
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:42,400
Speaker 4: There's a guy playing rod Fair in the movie, only

1897
01:38:42,439 --> 01:38:45,240
Speaker 4: he's younger and more handsome, and they don't really tell

1898
01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:48,080
Speaker 4: the real story. But it's cool to have somebody playing

1899
01:38:48,200 --> 01:38:51,240
Speaker 4: you while you're still alive. So of course I got

1900
01:38:51,320 --> 01:38:55,000
Speaker 4: to imagine her. But Christina, of course has the Quincy

1901
01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:58,000
Speaker 4: Jones level of musical articulation.

1902
01:38:58,240 --> 01:38:58,599
Speaker 1: Like her.

1903
01:38:59,439 --> 01:39:04,360
Speaker 4: She is like like a fencing champion, like an Olympic

1904
01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:08,519
Speaker 4: sword fighter. When it comes to her chops. No, she's

1905
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:11,719
Speaker 4: got chops above and beyond.

1906
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:16,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, okay, what we got.

1907
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:26,200
Speaker 4: No n no name, no names name.

1908
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:30,080
Speaker 2: What you did?

1909
01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:44,519
Speaker 1: Don't say? She I said he's got to do a

1910
01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:46,680
Speaker 1: whole act like that. I would love for him to

1911
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:48,559
Speaker 1: do it. That'd be great, awesome.

1912
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:50,880
Speaker 3: So we had a very important part of the show,

1913
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:54,439
Speaker 3: Will you tell us a story? Funny or fucked up?

1914
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:57,800
Speaker 3: Are funny and fucked up? The only rute to the

1915
01:39:57,840 --> 01:40:00,640
Speaker 3: game is Ron Fair can't say no no names.

1916
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:02,559
Speaker 4: And then the audience guesses who it is.

1917
01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:05,000
Speaker 1: They always try, they always try.

1918
01:40:05,479 --> 01:40:09,560
Speaker 4: This person won a Grammy Award, Okay, a lot of

1919
01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:12,559
Speaker 4: people for Best New Artists, Okay, a lot of those.

1920
01:40:12,840 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 4: But this person did not think me. When the thank

1921
01:40:19,080 --> 01:40:24,160
Speaker 4: yous came forgot me. It was a terrible thing. It

1922
01:40:24,200 --> 01:40:29,519
Speaker 4: was a terrible thing to not be remembered on such

1923
01:40:29,560 --> 01:40:33,679
Speaker 4: an incredibly important moment, and it sent me into a deep,

1924
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:39,120
Speaker 4: deep funk. The next day, I was called into a

1925
01:40:39,160 --> 01:40:46,080
Speaker 4: meeting because I felt so slighted at a lunch at

1926
01:40:46,080 --> 01:40:49,040
Speaker 4: the Four Seasons Hotel. It was like, we got to

1927
01:40:49,080 --> 01:40:53,040
Speaker 4: make this, we got to make this moment pass. So

1928
01:40:53,120 --> 01:40:58,760
Speaker 4: I went to the meeting all depressed, and when I

1929
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:01,400
Speaker 4: got there, I was, oh, no, that's the restaurant there,

1930
01:41:01,400 --> 01:41:03,240
Speaker 4: but you got to go here, and I was ushered

1931
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:08,400
Speaker 4: to a door. The door opened. It's not funny or

1932
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:11,760
Speaker 4: fucked up, it's true. But when the door opened. There

1933
01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:15,240
Speaker 4: was an enormous surprise party one day after the Grammys

1934
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:18,400
Speaker 4: for me with over one hundred people.

1935
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 1: Wow.

1936
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,879
Speaker 4: And this person stood up in front of the party

1937
01:41:23,200 --> 01:41:27,679
Speaker 4: and said you will never be forgotten and made.

1938
01:41:27,479 --> 01:41:34,720
Speaker 1: It all right. Wow. Wow. It kind of started off

1939
01:41:34,800 --> 01:41:35,360
Speaker 1: like that, but.

1940
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:39,720
Speaker 4: It wasn't funny. Yeah, you can't make that stuff up.

1941
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:42,360
Speaker 4: The next day, next day there was a surprise party.

1942
01:41:42,360 --> 01:41:45,640
Speaker 4: They mobilized quick. But you know, speaking on it, like,

1943
01:41:45,880 --> 01:41:47,760
Speaker 4: not so much on the funnier fucked up tip, but

1944
01:41:47,840 --> 01:41:51,760
Speaker 4: about the Grammys and about awards, we tend to not

1945
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:55,200
Speaker 4: remember who won last year for this or that. It's

1946
01:41:55,200 --> 01:41:59,160
Speaker 4: more about the celebration and the and the moment and

1947
01:41:59,240 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 4: the performance and it doesn't define you. Yeah, it's nice

1948
01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:09,160
Speaker 4: to win, but it's all good.

1949
01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:10,280
Speaker 1: But I don't remember.

1950
01:42:10,360 --> 01:42:12,280
Speaker 4: If I asked you, like what one what won for

1951
01:42:12,479 --> 01:42:14,760
Speaker 4: R and B Song of the Year last year, you

1952
01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:18,040
Speaker 4: might not remember. I certainly don't remember the year before.

1953
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:21,519
Speaker 1: It starts to get blurry. Yeah, and in.

1954
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:25,479
Speaker 4: Our busy world of media saturation. But so the thing

1955
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:27,680
Speaker 4: the story about about the Grammys and not and not

1956
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:32,160
Speaker 4: being recognized in the scheme of life. It's just one

1957
01:42:32,160 --> 01:42:33,759
Speaker 4: of those things.

1958
01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:36,479
Speaker 1: Well, listen, man, this is this is why.

1959
01:42:36,439 --> 01:42:38,040
Speaker 4: I don't know if it was funny or funnier.

1960
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:39,600
Speaker 1: No, it was fucked up. It fucked up.

1961
01:42:39,760 --> 01:42:41,960
Speaker 3: It ended up, it turned out right, but it was

1962
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:44,040
Speaker 3: fucked up. And that's why I say it could be

1963
01:42:44,040 --> 01:42:46,000
Speaker 3: either or in the beginning, it was definitely fucked up.

1964
01:42:46,080 --> 01:42:47,559
Speaker 3: Let me think, because I would feel a way about

1965
01:42:47,600 --> 01:42:50,320
Speaker 3: that if I'm watching the Grammys and I'm like, I

1966
01:42:50,479 --> 01:42:52,439
Speaker 3: was a big part of this, and damn, I can't

1967
01:42:52,439 --> 01:42:53,280
Speaker 3: even get a shout out.

1968
01:42:53,320 --> 01:42:57,320
Speaker 4: But it doesn't matter. It's funny because someone somebody. I've

1969
01:42:57,360 --> 01:42:59,240
Speaker 4: been like so lucky to have so many different mentors

1970
01:42:59,280 --> 01:43:01,760
Speaker 4: and people come through my life or whatever. And as

1971
01:43:01,760 --> 01:43:03,920
Speaker 4: a behind the scenes guy like I was never an artist.

1972
01:43:03,960 --> 01:43:05,960
Speaker 4: I was a shitty jazz piano player, like I didn't

1973
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:09,320
Speaker 4: take the spotlight. And and I was very comfortable in that.

1974
01:43:11,320 --> 01:43:14,759
Speaker 4: You know, we're so passionate at the time, like living

1975
01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:19,160
Speaker 4: and dying on everything, Keisha. Literally my happiness was dependent

1976
01:43:19,240 --> 01:43:24,800
Speaker 4: on the outcome of a thing. But there they the

1977
01:43:25,240 --> 01:43:28,720
Speaker 4: eras come and go, and there's seasons and reasons, and

1978
01:43:28,760 --> 01:43:32,120
Speaker 4: there's another artist and another artist and another project and

1979
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:36,680
Speaker 4: another song and another record, and we're still here absolutely

1980
01:43:37,720 --> 01:43:41,320
Speaker 4: so as long as I keep showing up and keep

1981
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:45,360
Speaker 4: believing that this thing that didn't exist ten seconds ago

1982
01:43:45,920 --> 01:43:49,360
Speaker 4: is going to be something something. I'm doing a record

1983
01:43:49,439 --> 01:43:55,000
Speaker 4: right now. I'm doing the orchestration on Wednesday. That's probably

1984
01:43:55,479 --> 01:43:59,400
Speaker 4: just because of the way, you know, The Facts is

1985
01:43:59,400 --> 01:44:02,760
Speaker 4: probably going to be Dion Warwick's last record. She's in

1986
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:05,320
Speaker 4: her mid eighties. And there's two duets that I'm working on,

1987
01:44:05,320 --> 01:44:08,439
Speaker 4: one coming and doing the show awesome. So one is

1988
01:44:08,439 --> 01:44:11,840
Speaker 4: with Teddy Swims and one is with John Legend. So

1989
01:44:12,240 --> 01:44:13,840
Speaker 4: you know, like, are they hits?

1990
01:44:14,160 --> 01:44:14,720
Speaker 1: I don't care.

1991
01:44:15,200 --> 01:44:17,760
Speaker 4: I don't care if they're fucking hits. Their culture and

1992
01:44:17,800 --> 01:44:21,559
Speaker 4: theirs and their and their art, and so I am

1993
01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:25,439
Speaker 4: throwing myself at these records, with all the technology, with

1994
01:44:25,439 --> 01:44:27,960
Speaker 4: all the musicality, with all the musicianship, with everything I have,

1995
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:30,920
Speaker 4: if nothing else to just maybe get that phone call

1996
01:44:30,960 --> 01:44:35,360
Speaker 4: from John Legend to say, Ron this is dope. Yeah,

1997
01:44:35,400 --> 01:44:38,360
Speaker 4: and that will keep me going, you know, for another week,

1998
01:44:39,400 --> 01:44:40,280
Speaker 4: just because that's what we do.

1999
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:41,120
Speaker 1: It's our oxygen.

2000
01:44:41,479 --> 01:44:45,839
Speaker 4: This this is all record making artists, songs, chord changes,

2001
01:44:46,400 --> 01:44:51,920
Speaker 4: it's nutrition, it's oxygen. We're dead without it, so I'll

2002
01:44:51,960 --> 01:44:54,080
Speaker 4: take it out that way, in my till my last breath,

2003
01:44:54,080 --> 01:44:56,360
Speaker 4: Like I said, hopefully, I'll die in the chair in

2004
01:44:56,400 --> 01:44:59,519
Speaker 4: the middle of a vocal overtub believing I'm making another

2005
01:44:59,560 --> 01:45:02,639
Speaker 4: significant and record. Man, Thank you, thank you for having

2006
01:45:02,680 --> 01:45:05,840
Speaker 4: me of course, sharing your audience with me, and and

2007
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:06,880
Speaker 4: it means a lot to me.

2008
01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:11,720
Speaker 3: I appreciate it likewise, brother, Yeah, thank you. I'm Jay Valentine.

2009
01:45:11,920 --> 01:45:16,720
Speaker 3: This has been the amazing, the incredible round fair. It's

2010
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:18,920
Speaker 3: R and B money and I see y'all next week.