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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Josham. For this week's Select, I've

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Speaker 1: chosen our August twenty seventeen episode on personality tests. It

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Speaker 1: turns out that the vast majority of them, maybe all

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Speaker 1: of them, are scientifically faulty to at least some degree,

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Speaker 1: and some of them are just outright made up. This

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Speaker 1: can be a real problem if they're being used to

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Speaker 1: diagnose you with a mental illness, or hire or fire

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Speaker 1: you or put you in jail, and that actually happens.

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Speaker 1: So dig into this deceptively interesting episode and enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: And I'm an EENFP.

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Speaker 2: By the way, Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a

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Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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Speaker 1: Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there, and this

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Speaker 1: is Stuff you Should Know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just a couple of.

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Speaker 4: It.

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Speaker 1: Jay says, I don't remember what I am. We've taken

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Speaker 1: it before. How Stuff Works hosted it years back. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we had, like many companies do, as you'll see,

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Speaker 5: we had when we were under Discovery's tender wing. They

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Speaker 5: paid for someone to come to our office and administer

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Speaker 5: the Myers Briggs personality test.

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Speaker 1: At gunpoint.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure I was

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Speaker 5: an E N F P.

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Speaker 1: I I don't remember what I was. I'll probably say

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Speaker 1: like three different things as we go through this one.

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Speaker 5: Like, just looking at it again, I'm pretty sure I

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Speaker 5: was an E N F P. Okay, P stands for

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Speaker 5: pisces right where.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see extroverted intuitive. Okay, what is the F

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Speaker 1: stand for? Feeling pooper?

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Speaker 3: Is a spoiler? Yeah, feeling pooper.

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Speaker 1: So we're what we're talking about. It sounds like we're

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Speaker 1: saying strings of letters. They actually do make sense if

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Speaker 1: you're familiar with what Chuck just said, the Myers Briggs

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Speaker 1: type inventory, which if you are in corporate America and

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Speaker 1: have been a part of corporate America for more than

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Speaker 1: probably three years, there's probably a pretty good likelihood that

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Speaker 1: you've taken the Myers Briggs type inventory for sure. Like

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Speaker 1: it's really widespread.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it.

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Speaker 1: I saw something like thirteen percent of companies in America

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Speaker 1: use it. It's a lot.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it was it eighty nine of the Fortune one

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Speaker 5: hundred use it.

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Speaker 1: Right, And then I saw another stat It was from

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one though, So I'm not sure how current.

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Speaker 1: It is well sixteen years old, right, but they said

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Speaker 1: that the uh, I think British companies somewhere between ten

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Speaker 1: and forty percent of British companies use them, right, So

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Speaker 1: I mean it's who knows. It's pretty wild, guess it

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Speaker 1: sounds like but.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if they have their own It's.

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Speaker 1: No, the Myers Briggs Test. They don't call it a test,

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Speaker 1: as we'll see. Sure, but the test is, it's worldwide,

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Speaker 1: it's translated into tons of different languages. They and no,

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Speaker 1: it's it's the Myers Briggs Test. And there's tons of knockoffs.

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Speaker 1: Oh sure, there's tons of personality tests in general, which

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Speaker 1: really is the larger umbrella the Myers Briggs Test falls under.

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Speaker 1: But it's probably the most famous of all time, at

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Speaker 1: least as far as pop culture goes.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and we're going to hit on everything from Rorshak

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Speaker 5: to the Myers Briggs.

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Speaker 1: Sure, but we're going to hit on them.

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Speaker 5: But the MBT I definitely is more of the focus

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Speaker 5: of this one because of its ubiquity.

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Speaker 1: Right, because most people know it, and because it's one

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Speaker 1: of the overlooked pastimes in the United States to take

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Speaker 1: pot shots at the Myers Briggs type inventory. Sure, it's fun.

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Speaker 5: So categorizing one's personality is nothing new, and that's what

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Speaker 5: these tests aim to do for various reasons, which we'll

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Speaker 5: go over later. But going back, and this was a

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Speaker 5: Grabster article, correct, that's right, so you know it's good. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: And Grabster was just at our show in Toronto. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: he was for the second time.

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Speaker 1: He stood up and like, did that victory shake?

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Speaker 6: Did he do that?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: He did. No, I'm a big fan of that. That's

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Speaker 3: old school.

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Speaker 1: Oh it is. It's a good way to go. It

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Speaker 1: looks like you should be wearing those dolphin shorts just

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Speaker 1: having crossed the finish line and you doing that.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, it's nothing new trying to categorize personalities. Way

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Speaker 5: back in the day, I know, on our Grave Robbing

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Speaker 5: Live Grave Robbing episode, we talked about the four humors

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Speaker 5: and we talked about him before before medical science was

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Speaker 5: kind of a real thing.

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Speaker 1: It was an early attempt.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they talked about the four fluids or the four

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Speaker 5: humors black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, and blood, uh and

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Speaker 5: and imbalance in those will cause disease. But they were

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Speaker 5: also this is something I didn't know. These are also

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Speaker 5: linked to corresponding personality types.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So like the word melancholy in English, it's

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Speaker 1: an adaptation of the Greek words I believe for black bile.

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Speaker 1: There it is, and melancholy personalities were associated with an

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Speaker 1: overabundance of black bile. And basically your melancholy you're you're

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Speaker 1: a depressed person or you're very reserved or quiet. And

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Speaker 1: for thousands of years people thought guy's got a lot

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Speaker 1: of black bile. Yeah, that explains his personality. The other

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Speaker 1: ones are pretty pretty interesting too, like phlegmatic.

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Speaker 3: Uh, phlegmatic.

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Speaker 1: I've seen flegmatic. I've heard flagmatic. Really, I've seen it too.

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Speaker 3: So like when you cough something up, do you call

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Speaker 3: it flegum?

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Speaker 1: Sometimes depends if it had like a lot of extra

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Speaker 1: chunks in it, it's flag Oh gosh. But phlegmatic, I say, phlegmatic.

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Speaker 1: That's very laid back. Did you know that?

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Speaker 5: Well, Yeah, because I looked all these up. Oh okay,

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Speaker 5: because sanguine is one of my favorite words. Yeah, and

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Speaker 5: that's this is Hippocrates, by the way. He kind of

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Speaker 5: further refined these concepts of the temperament. So melancholic, phlegmatic, sanguine,

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Speaker 5: and what is it choleric.

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Speaker 1: Here coleric, Yeah, choleric, coloric. Choleric is like irritable and

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Speaker 1: short and terse and Kurt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is, there's something weird here, right if

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Speaker 1: you are a thinking human being, yes, who is not

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Speaker 1: in a vegetative state right now?

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Speaker 3: Correct?

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Speaker 1: And for all we know at this point in medical science,

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Speaker 1: maybe even if you are in a vegetative state, you're

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Speaker 1: probably thinking, Uh, it doesn't seem like anyone I've ever

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Speaker 1: met is just phlegmatic or just choleric, or just sanguine

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Speaker 1: or just melancholy. Sometimes I'm all four of those things.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I go through those things all four in a day,

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Speaker 1: depending on how weird the day is.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes I go through all four of those within the

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Speaker 3: course of one happy hour.

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Speaker 1: Sure, okay, Right, And that's kind of the point here,

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Speaker 1: And it's also the basis of any criticism from this

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Speaker 1: moment in the podcast here on out, is that this

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Speaker 1: whole thing that started back with the Four Humors and

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Speaker 1: continues on to this day in the guise of personality tests, yeah,

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Speaker 1: is an attempt to take a human personality and say

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Speaker 1: you're this, Yeah, you're this one type, You're this type,

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Speaker 1: this is your type, this is what you're like, right,

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Speaker 1: And the human personality is just too complex, too squishy,

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Speaker 1: too jelly like to be boxed into one thing like that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and we'll get into all criticisms, but that definitely

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Speaker 5: is the leading criticism.

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Speaker 3: That is. Well, we'll save that.

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Speaker 1: Okay. That was a tease.

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Speaker 3: It was a good tease.

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Speaker 1: It's a phlegmatic one.

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Speaker 5: All these classifications, though, that we talk about now, are

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Speaker 5: or most of them at least are drive lai at

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Speaker 5: the feet of one man. When Carl Jung, Yeah, who

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Speaker 5: wrote a book called psychological types.

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Speaker 1: How do you say it? Though in in German?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's oh where is it? Let me see there it is.

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Speaker 1: I can't even begin to do it.

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Speaker 3: Psycho psycho sorry, psychologic yesh, psychologic ish typing.

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Speaker 1: That's not fair.

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Speaker 3: It's so tiny. That was the problem because you.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I do ten point I don't like to

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Speaker 1: waste paper.

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Speaker 3: Well you know me.

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Speaker 1: You do like sixteen point times new Roman.

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Speaker 5: Paper, and I don't want to waste it. But I

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Speaker 5: also have to do my job. Sure, maybe I should

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Speaker 5: go double sided, but then my highlighter it gets in

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Speaker 5: the way.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it would be a problem, man, everything would

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Speaker 1: be highlighting, you might as well just dip the whole

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Speaker 1: page in yellow wink or something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 5: So anyway, Jung wrote this book, that book in nineteen

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Speaker 5: twenty one and at German and had it translated to

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Speaker 5: English a couple of years.

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Speaker 3: Later, and he created these four categories sensation, intuition, thinking,

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Speaker 3: and feeling.

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Speaker 5: Right, So those were his four that kind of most

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Speaker 5: of these modern tests are based on in some way

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Speaker 5: or another.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And.

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Speaker 1: It's really almost impossible that I guess we could just

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Speaker 1: save all the criticisms for the end and just pile

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Speaker 1: them on. But it's really tough to talk about this

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Speaker 1: stuff and not like, as you present one fact, talk

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Speaker 1: about the problem with that fact as it relates to

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Speaker 1: modern incarnation. What do you think we should do? Should

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Speaker 1: we just save them, like you say, because I can

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Speaker 1: buite my time?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's say them, okay, and then you can just like.

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Speaker 1: I'm not even try like I'm not I'm not going

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Speaker 1: crop circle here. I'm just saying like, there's just there's

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Speaker 1: just a lot wrong with this. But even before Young

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Speaker 1: who created these the concept of the modern concept i

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Speaker 1: should say, personality types, and he created the idea of introvert,

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Speaker 1: an extrovert, which say what you will about you, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of psychologists have a lot to say about him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily the nicest things to say, but introversion and

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Speaker 1: extra extraversion is so widely accepted inside and out of

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Speaker 1: the field of psychology that I mean, if that were

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Speaker 1: his only contribution to the field, that's that's enough to

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Speaker 1: engrave it on your tombstone for sure.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And each of those four psychological types he was talking

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Speaker 5: about are modified by whether or not you're introverted or extroverted.

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Speaker 3: Right, so they all kind of work together to buch

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Speaker 3: you in.

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Speaker 1: That was like the right, that was the main thing

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Speaker 1: is how you how you approach life is introvert, extrovert,

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Speaker 1: and everything else was like a sub It's kind of

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Speaker 1: a sub section of that or something.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And one of the issues with this, and I don't

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Speaker 5: think this is part of the criticism, but.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I thought we were saving him.

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Speaker 5: He was This was based on his ideas. It wasn't

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Speaker 5: like he had all this research and all this data.

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Speaker 5: He was a deep thinker, and he sat around and

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Speaker 5: thought of these things.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly, And then he wrote entire books based on them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but he's a very well respected psychoanalyst, and he was

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Speaker 1: part of the early movement for psychoanalysis. With Freud, they

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Speaker 1: were colleagues. La Jung was much younger, but they eventually said,

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Speaker 1: I don't like you anymore. We're parting ways. But as

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Speaker 1: psychoanalysis was really kind of establishing itself, and if you

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Speaker 1: want to know more about that background in the origin

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Speaker 1: of psychoanalysis, go listen to her how pr works the

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Speaker 1: live show. Yeah, we talked a lot about that. But

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Speaker 1: as this was going on and it was starting to

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Speaker 1: kind of dominate the field of psychology, there was a

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Speaker 1: whole other movement, a parallel movement that said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: we think all that's a little mushy. We like the

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Speaker 1: idea of being able to quantify psychology. And so even

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Speaker 1: before you there were guys like Alfred Binet, who was

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Speaker 1: one of the indirect fathers of the Intelligence test IQ test,

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Speaker 1: a pair of researchers named Gray and Wheelwright, and plenty

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Speaker 1: of others who wanted to say, no, no, no, no, you

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Speaker 1: can study psychology. You can study things like the human personality,

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Speaker 1: and you can typify and you can add numbers, you

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Speaker 1: can quantify this stuff and in doing so, we will

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Speaker 1: prove psychology as a science as well. So this whole

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Speaker 1: movement to typify people and put them into convenient, almost

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Speaker 1: numerical categories came out of this urgent need to establish

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Speaker 1: a scientific basis for psychology.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and Jung he kind of laid the table for this.

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Speaker 5: And many years later, although not that many, there was

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Speaker 5: a woman named Katherine Cook Briggs and she was working

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Speaker 5: on this with her daughter, one Isabelle Briggs Myers. I

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Speaker 5: think you see where this is going. And this is

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Speaker 5: post World War two when they women were kind of

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Speaker 5: for the first time really going into the workforce in

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Speaker 5: full and en mass, and so they thought, well, maybe

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Speaker 5: we can put together some personality types to find out

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Speaker 5: what kind of jobs these women might be suited for,

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Speaker 5: what types of jobs they might enjoy. So they started

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Speaker 5: working together on this, and as legend has it, the

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Speaker 5: mom Katherine Briggs Cook Briggs, she was doing her thing

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Speaker 5: and then saw Jung's works and said, I got to

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Speaker 5: start over.

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Speaker 1: This is the stuff She had already been working on

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Speaker 1: a personality test. Yeah, but apparently, according to the legend,

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Speaker 1: through her work into the fire said I'm starting from scratch.

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Speaker 3: Because she's dramatic.

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Speaker 1: She was a voracious reader, especially of the psychology, the

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Speaker 1: new psychology books that were coming out of Europe.

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Speaker 5: Right, she didn't read Young She did well eventually, but yeah,

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Speaker 5: and then seems like it kind of came along later.

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Speaker 1: Well, so, yeah, there's a there's kind of a weird

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Speaker 1: discrepancy in the history. And I don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: just that hasn't been covered right or if there is

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Speaker 1: a weird discrepancy, but supposedly she initiated it, and so

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Speaker 1: it would have been contemporary or shortly after Jung's Psychology

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Speaker 1: or Personality Types was translated into English in nineteen twenty three.

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Speaker 1: But it was her daughter Isabelle who really took it

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Speaker 1: and ran with it because of World War Two in

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Speaker 1: the need for women in the workplace.

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Speaker 5: Correct, so they you know, kind of kept some of

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Speaker 5: young stuff built on that it kind of striped some

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Speaker 5: of it away, most notably a lot of the unconscious stuff.

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Speaker 5: They might have thought that was a little too weird

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Speaker 5: for you know, the modern American workforce. Yeah, so what

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Speaker 5: they ended up coming up with was the the MBTI

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Speaker 5: Myers Briggs Type Indicator, right, very famously.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they had a publishing arrangement with one group

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what they were called, but they thought

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Speaker 1: it didn't do very well. And then in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: five they went with another publisher CPP and they're the

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Speaker 1: current publishers of the Myers Briggs Yeah type indicator. And

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Speaker 1: since then that's when it's ubiquity, like just really spread

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Speaker 1: was starting in the seventies and now it's just it's

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Speaker 1: basically married to corporate America.

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Speaker 3: Should we take a break, sure, go get married to

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Speaker 3: corporate America.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as if we aren't already.

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Speaker 5: All right, we'll come back and we'll talk a little

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Speaker 5: bit about personality tests in general and then focus in

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Speaker 5: a little more on the n B T I.

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Speaker 6: As W.

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Speaker 4: S k as all right, So.

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Speaker 5: Personality tests is just there are many many ways you

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Speaker 5: can get evaluated psychologically by a professional.

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Speaker 3: This is just one way.

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Speaker 1: And you get your head measured with calibers. Back in

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Speaker 1: the day they did that, give you a bunch of

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Speaker 1: drugs and see what you do. There's a lot of ways.

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Speaker 5: But these tests generally, as Grabster points out, falls into

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Speaker 5: a couple of types, projective and objective. Projective tests or

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Speaker 5: things like the roar shack test where you're shown something

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Speaker 5: some kind of stimulus and it's open to interpretation, and

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Speaker 5: you tell them what you think about it, and someone

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Speaker 5: sits back very quietly and taps on a pad of

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Speaker 5: paper and makes an evaluation. And then objective are more

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Speaker 5: like these personality tests. They're standardized assessments that people use,

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Speaker 5: and while it's subjective what you put down, they are

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Speaker 5: then evaluated again by a professional.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately that objective name is a bit of a

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Speaker 1: misnomer because on the end of it, it's still interpreted

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Speaker 1: by a person. Yeah, which is therefore makes it subjective, right,

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Speaker 1: and which, depending on who you ask, is the fatal

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Speaker 1: flaw of all personality tests.

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Speaker 5: It should be the good song from the seventies had

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Speaker 5: a little parenthetical at the end of the title, right,

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Speaker 5: it should just say subjective also right in parentheses.

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Speaker 1: Baby.

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Speaker 3: So the big five are and this is the Big five.

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Speaker 5: I get the feeling or the psycho logical tests that

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Speaker 5: that legit psychologists are more in favor of over something

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Speaker 5: like the MBT.

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Speaker 3: I is that right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just there's tests to suss out the

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Speaker 1: Big five. The Big five are the personality types of

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Speaker 1: the field of psychology has come up with.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, but the tests that you utilize that, right,

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Speaker 5: they kind of think are more legit than the MBT.

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Speaker 1: I yeah, there's not a psychologist alive who uses the

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Speaker 1: the MBTI and the regular practice. Oh I bet there

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Speaker 1: are not that not that are speaking up.

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Speaker 3: I guarantee you there's someone out there.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Sure it's a free wheeling type.

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Speaker 3: Or is she?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 5: The Big five are extraversion, agreeableness, openness to experience, conscientiousness,

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Speaker 5: and neuroticism. Right, sounds like it could be like a

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Speaker 5: dating site thing that you fill out.

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Speaker 1: It's funny, every time I see or hear the word neuroticism,

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Speaker 1: a bell goes off in my head, like.

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Speaker 3: Thing, just a silent bell. I don't know what that means.

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Speaker 1: I don't either, but it draws my attention to.

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Speaker 3: So some of these tests, I mean, it depends on

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Speaker 3: what it is that.

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Speaker 5: They might not all call them by those exact words,

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Speaker 5: but they're generally using they call them, you know, like

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Speaker 5: I said, the Big five.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I I was looking into that Big five

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Speaker 1: and this site I can't remember what it was called,

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Speaker 1: but they were basically they were going over it like

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Speaker 1: extraversion is again just part of the scientific literature at

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Speaker 1: this point. Agreeableness is like whether you're how sympathetic or

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Speaker 1: kind or affectionate you are? Conscientiousness is are you organized?

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Speaker 1: Are you thorough? Are you the type who shows up

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Speaker 1: on time? That kind of thing, neuroticism, which is some

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Speaker 1: kind sometimes called emotional stability. How tense are you? How moody?

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Speaker 1: How anxious? And then like openness to experience? Right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they sometimes call that intellect slash imagination. Do you have

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Speaker 1: wide interests? Are you an imaginative person? Are you insightful?

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Speaker 1: And the site really went to a lot of pains

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Speaker 1: to point out that what you would call these things

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Speaker 1: the big five personality traits are as far as a

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Speaker 1: psychologist is concerned, just one dimension of you, the human being,

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Speaker 1: and that to get a clearer picture of you, they

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Speaker 1: would also need to study your motivations, your emotions, your attitudes,

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Speaker 1: your abilities, your self concepts, your social roles, autobiographical memories,

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Speaker 1: your life stories. Now, if you start to put all

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Speaker 1: these things together, then you can start to kind of

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Speaker 1: approximate the person's personality. But it would just it takes

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Speaker 1: a lot of study of an individual and these different

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Speaker 1: components that make up their personality to get a clear picture.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think there are any psychologists walking around

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Speaker 1: saying the big five personality types or like the beginning

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Speaker 1: and end of a personality. It's just if you put

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Speaker 1: them together, you have just a sketch of somebody's personality

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Speaker 1: and you should go much deeper. Or if you're analyzing someone.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I used to think this stuff was

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Speaker 5: a lot neaterer when I was younger, and now it

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Speaker 5: kind of gives me a little anxiety. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: Like I just I don't know as far as doing

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Speaker 5: this to myself, and I still enjoy therapy, like that's different.

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Speaker 5: But I don't know, because every single one of these

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Speaker 5: I like my answer would be, well, it depends.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think. I think also though, and I don't

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Speaker 1: mean to speak for you, but one of the issues

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Speaker 1: that that comes up for me is if somebody goes

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Speaker 1: to you and says, you know you you you rate

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Speaker 1: pretty high on the spectrum of neuroticism, Like that's obviously

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Speaker 1: you're gonna obsess about that kind of stuff, especially if

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Speaker 1: they're right.

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Speaker 3: It can make you neurotic.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a boundary that somebody has just established

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Speaker 1: for you. That you may need feel the need to

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Speaker 1: stay in because that's the boundary that you're bound by,

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Speaker 1: whether you are or not.

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Speaker 3: Like this is my box, right that I'll live in it.

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Speaker 1: That would be the reason it raises anxiety for me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my whole thing.

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Speaker 5: Like I said, though, it is just depends every single

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Speaker 5: question that I would get asked. Well, not everyone. Sometimes

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Speaker 5: I'm pretty like set on something, but usually I'd say

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Speaker 5: I don't know. It depends on the scenario. Right, Am

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Speaker 5: I more prone in a crowd to do X or Y?

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Speaker 5: Maybe right?

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Speaker 3: Maybe not? Depends on my mood.

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Speaker 1: So one with these other personality tests, and the whole

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Speaker 1: field in psychology of studying traits personality traits in a

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Speaker 1: quantitative way is called psychometrics. So with these tests, the

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Speaker 1: more sophisticated ones, if they had a test taker like you,

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Speaker 1: they're designed to get around that. So they're going to

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Speaker 1: ask a bunch of different questions about the same thing,

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Speaker 1: but in different ways, coming from different directions, so that eventually,

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Speaker 1: if you put all of them together and run them

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Speaker 1: through statistical analysis, they're actually going to come up with

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Speaker 1: your genuine answer, which is kind of one way or another.

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Speaker 1: The other way that they get around this that kind

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Speaker 1: of hemming and hauling, I guess is by placing it

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Speaker 1: on a spectrum, you're not being lumped into one category

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Speaker 1: or another. It's here's one end of the spectrum, here's

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Speaker 1: the other end of the spectrum, and based on your answers,

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Speaker 1: you fall somewhere around the middle, like almost everybody does.

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Speaker 1: If you look at psychometric tests, a legitimate psychometric test

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Speaker 1: is going to basically look like a bell curve where

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Speaker 1: most people are going to be distributed toward the middle.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think what that's why gives me anxiety. It's like,

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Speaker 5: what's the point? Don't box me in?

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Speaker 1: It's a great question.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think the second half of this is a

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Speaker 5: lot of what's the point? Yeah, you know, So looking

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Speaker 5: speaking on these tests to see if it's actually if

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Speaker 5: there is a point, if it's a valid thing to do.

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Speaker 5: There are a couple of measures that one must look

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Speaker 5: at and that psychologists do look at is it valid

442
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 5: and is it reliable? Valid in this that it really

443
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 5: is a pretty good reflection of Josh or Chuck or whoever,

444
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 5: and is it reliable. So if we take this test

445
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 5: tomorrow or a different test, that's just you know, maybe

446
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 5: different questions, will it reproduce the same result?

447
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 3: And that's a big deal.

448
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,239
Speaker 5: Like if you're talking science and you're trying to have

449
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 5: a foundation that says, no, this is science. It's not

450
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 5: just a bunch of questions and hippie dippy questions that

451
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 5: we're asking. If you really want real data and science

452
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 5: behind it, you have to be able to reproduce it.

453
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: One of the other things too, that these tests are

454
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: designed to do is to weed out fakers. Right, we'll

455
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: talk a lot more about the Minnesota Multi Phasic Personality Inventory,

456
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: which is one of the big ones. Yes, probably the

457
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: most taken personality test in the world, and it has

458
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: a lot of built in mechanisms and apparently is really

459
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: good at detecting people who are faking they're faking a

460
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: mental illness or who are trying to pretend that they

461
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: aren't suffering from a mental illness. Yeah, it's really good

462
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: at detecting that because it's so exhaustive and using statistical analysis.

463
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: If somebody is skewed really far one way or skewed

464
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: really far the other, they're just immediately exposed as gaming

465
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: the test as best they can.

466
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 6: Yeah.

467
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 5: And one way they do that, which is in its

468
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 5: own way, its own little psychology experiment at least, is

469
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 5: by telling you if we have ways right, like, you

470
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 5: will be rooted out and we will know exactly. So

471
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,959
Speaker 5: they tell people that beforehand, so you're more inclined to

472
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 5: just be like, all right, we'll screw it.

473
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: I'll tell the truth, right, especially when they're sitting there

474
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: like clearing the air out of a syringe.

475
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 3: That's creepy.

476
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 5: It is, all right, So let's get back to CPP

477
00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 5: in the MBTI, the consulting Psychological Psychologists PRESS and the

478
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 5: Myers Briggs.

479
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 3: We'll just keep calling it a test, even though they

480
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 3: say it's not a.

481
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: Test, it's a type inventory.

482
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, so we'll just go ahead and break down the

483
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 5: deal here there are. The object is to sort you

484
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 5: into one of sixteen different types personality types, based on

485
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 5: which side of four pairs or dichotomies that you're going

486
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 5: to fall on. And those are at the very base.

487
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 5: You're either introverted or extroverted, like we said, HE or I,

488
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 5: sensing or intuition S and N. And these words they

489
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 5: sound a little confusing, like what the heck does a

490
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 5: sensing person mean? It means you, like the big data

491
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 5: empirical data and a lot of information.

492
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: Right, whereas intuition is like you just go with your gut,

493
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: that's how you prefer to be correct. Right.

494
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 5: The next we have thinking and feeling. Thinking being more

495
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 5: focused on logic, that's a logic with the tea sure

496
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 5: and objectivity. And then if you're feeling, you're going to

497
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 5: be more interested in relationships and harmony among your group.

498
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: Those two are pretty straightforward, Yeah, I think so. And

499
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: then lastly there's judging and perceiving. Those are that's a dichotomy.

500
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: Judging is where you prefer schedules, you prefer decisiveness, that's

501
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 1: how you kind of approach life, and perceiving is where

502
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: you're just kind of like whatever, Yeah, I'm not too

503
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: worried about it. Yeah, that's almost kind of like the

504
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: difference between the type A and type B personalities, which,

505
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: by the way, was made up by a pair of

506
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: cardiologists really whose work was later secretly funded by the

507
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: tobacco industry who are looking for anything to explain heart

508
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: attacks besides smoking, so they funded type A and type

509
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: B personality research for years. Interesting, Yeah, it really is.

510
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: There's a just as an aside, there's a really interesting price,

511
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, price nomics.

512
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: Article on type and type.

513
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, just look it up. I don't remember the name.

514
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 4: All right.

515
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 5: So when you sit down to take one of these

516
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 5: not tests with a series of questions that you answer,

517
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 5: I think.

518
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: They call them instruments, by the way, psychometric instruments, which.

519
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 3: Are basically a series of questions on a.

520
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: Piece of paper that sounds like a test.

521
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 5: They will say things like ed has some good examples

522
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 5: here when you go on a trip, do you want

523
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 5: everything planned out in advance or would you rather just

524
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 5: take each day as it comes, do whatever you feel like?

525
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 5: Pretty straightforward kind of stuff, right, And then they also

526
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 5: have things like word pairs, just to see literally what

527
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 5: word you like better, like compassion, foresight, Like which word

528
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 5: do you like better?

529
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: Carrots or fruit?

530
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 3: Fruit?

531
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: Fruit? Yeah, that's just prettier, it is. So I'm looking

532
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: back here, I just want to say, so.

533
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 3: I think you're trying to figure out what you were.

534
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think e n FP. Maybe I think.

535
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 3: That's what I was. We weren't the same thing.

536
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: I don't remember you. Me and I got the same thing.

537
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: She found an old email, but she forgot to tell

538
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,479
Speaker 1: me what we were. Oh really, I really, I don't know.

539
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: Problem is would we still be the same today?

540
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think, if I'm not mistaken, didn't we

541
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 5: have this up on a big board in the office

542
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 5: for a while, So yeah, it seems like a Jerry's nodding.

543
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 5: That seems like a breach of protocol. Sure like privacy.

544
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, well again, being forced a gunpoint to do it

545
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: was just from the start.

546
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: I remember it was kind of fun. I had a

547
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 3: fun day.

548
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that as well.

549
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 5: So it's gonna cost you if you just do this

550
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 5: as a single individual, not meaning not married, but just

551
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 5: a person, about fifty bucks, although they.

552
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 3: Should charge more if you're married. It's more complex.

553
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 5: Test fifty bucks. If you want an hour feedback, that'll

554
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 5: cost you an extra hundred. And if you want a

555
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 5: career report all typed up, that'll be sixteen ninety five. Yeah,

556
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 5: and if you this is fifteen hundred dollars for a

557
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 5: on site training classes at like what we had.

558
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: So this is a this is not very well explained.

559
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: If you want to administer the Myers Briggs personality or

560
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: type inventory, yeah, you can get certified four day training course.

561
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: Oh okay, and you pay fifteen hundred to sixteen hundred dollars.

562
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: Oh that's what that is.

563
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: Cannot legally administer this test or you're infringing on their copyright,

564
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: right unless you are certified by CPP to do this.

565
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 3: We should do it with one another on the air

566
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 3: and risk a lawsuit.

567
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: Well yeah, well you probably got a suit already with

568
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: that one question you asked out loud.

569
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 3: Which one? Oh, just the one?

570
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you go on a trip, do you want

571
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: everything planned out in advance?

572
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 3: I just made that up. Oh good job, goodcha, I

573
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: got that from Travelocity.

574
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: Nice. Okay, yeah, that little gnome whispered it in your.

575
00:30:58,560 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 3: Ear, that's right.

576
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: But so you you would go and get certified, and

577
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: then now you can go around to businesses and say, hey,

578
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: do you want to know more about your employees? You

579
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: want to know who's good at what? Let me come

580
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: give the Myers Briggs type inventory to your your employees

581
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: and it will be wonderful.

582
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 6: Right.

583
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: So that's how the whole process goes. You pay to

584
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: become certified, and then you go become something of an

585
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: evangelist for the Myers Briggs test and you sell the test.

586
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: You basically become a salesman as well. It's a it's

587
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: very interesting dynamic that they have going.

588
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 5: That is, it's a good word dynamic. They want to

589
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 5: point out that the person taking the test is the expert,

590
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 5: and they also use this metaphor of handedness, which I

591
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 5: didn't fully understand. They say things like, it feels more

592
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 5: comfortable to sign your name with your domino hand, but

593
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 5: technically you can sign with your non dominant and if

594
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 5: you need to right. I'm not sure what they're trying

595
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 5: to prove that.

596
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: They're trying to say that despite the MBTI, pigeonholing you

597
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: fully in one category or another rather than on a spectrum.

598
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: They're saying that category that it's pigeonholing you into is

599
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: actually just your preference. It's not you specifically, it's just.

600
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 3: Your inclined pretension.

601
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you tend to be an extrovert, but of course

602
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: everybody likes their own personal alone time, So yeah, you're

603
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: going to be an introvert once in a while, but

604
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: you're an extrovert more than other times.

605
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I can't sign my name with my left hand.

606
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 5: That I didn't like that analogy because it literally I

607
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 5: can barely hold a pin with my left hand.

608
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 3: I'm seeing you're doing it right now.

609
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: Wow, that was pretty bad.

610
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 3: If I try to do it.

611
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 5: It would look like a a three year old with

612
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 5: arthritis has tried to like scribble it.

613
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: Out mine mine looks like umm.

614
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 6: You d M.

615
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's my signature with my left hand.

616
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: And they do they do try and point out. Like

617
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 3: you said that.

618
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 5: It's interesting because they box you in. But at the

619
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 5: same time they're saying, but you know, like.

620
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: You said, this is just predisposition.

621
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 5: Don't don't really think of it about you being this

622
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 5: type of person, even though you are an A E

623
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 5: N F B. Right, like you said, it was earlier,

624
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 5: it was almost numbered. I mean it is this letter.

625
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: This is a different way of quantifying it. Yeah, but

626
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: without numbers, you want to take a break and then

627
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: come back and and maybe do a little criticism.

628
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, as why why.

629
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: S K.

630
00:33:53,920 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 6: You should know?

631
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: All right, Chuck? Like I said, it's kind of a

632
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: pastime in the United States to to tee off on

633
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: the Myers Briggs type inventory.

634
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is not us here, this is now, this.

635
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: Is us talking about other people. Team.

636
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 3: Yeah.

637
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 5: It's widely been criticized over the years from psychologists and

638
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 5: uh well amateur.

639
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 3: No, nothing's like us.

640
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: Sure.

641
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 3: One of the big criticisms is.

642
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 5: That companies use this stuff and hiring and firing and promoting.

643
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: But even the Myers Briggs people cpp say, like, don't

644
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: do that.

645
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,479
Speaker 5: Well I know, but they say that, but then don't

646
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 5: go to an office and get hired by a corporation

647
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 5: to administer.

648
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: It, right or go sell your services you know? Yeah, yeah,

649
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: I agreed, And that's part of the problem. To me,

650
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: that is more the corporation's fault. Well, like, if you

651
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: have an HR person who's like a die hard believer

652
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: in the MBTI and will hire or fire somebody based

653
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: on their MBTI type, fire that person because you have

654
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 1: a real dumb dumb on your hands and they should

655
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: not be responsible for people's livelihoods. Even I don't think

656
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: they would put it quite in those terms, But even

657
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: the Myers Briggs people say like, you shouldn't use this

658
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: for hiring or firing, and yet yes, some people do,

659
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: some people swear by this. The impression that I have

660
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: is that the Myers Briggs people tend to think of

661
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: this as more like a team building exercise or 're

662
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: like a certified MBTI administrator can come to your place,

663
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: get all your employees together and they find out like

664
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: all their personality types and by the way, there's not

665
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 1: a single negative personality type and all personality types are equal. Sure,

666
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: so everybody gets a participant ribbon in the form of

667
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: their personality type. But at the same time, and this

668
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: seems to be the crux, at the same time, everybody's

669
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: finding out like, oh, you're a little different than me,

670
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: and I'm a little different than you, and we all

671
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: have differences in different perspectives, so let's celebrate that, and

672
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: let's respect to one another's differences. And there is the

673
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: actual point from what I understand, of the Myers Briggs

674
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: type inventory and taking it in a corporate setting.

675
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 5: That's what stands out to me as what happened with

676
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 5: us was I remember it kind of being a fun

677
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 5: day and we're like TUTSI rolls. Yeah, we held goofed

678
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 5: off and had a good time. And the person leading it,

679
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 5: if they're good at what they do, which this person was,

680
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 5: is always you know, it's always kind of a fun

681
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 5: person and cracking jokes and they don't take it too serious.

682
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 5: None of us took it too seriously, and we all

683
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 5: had a good time and it was very much like

684
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 5: a team building thing.

685
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: Right, So as long as there's like a wink wink,

686
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: nudge nudge kind of thing, and that the people who

687
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: take it actually take it seriously or taken off to

688
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: the side by their hr rep to say like, no,

689
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: this is a little less serious, then you're taking it.

690
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: Then it's fine. But yes, once you start deciding people's

691
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: fate based on this, then you have real problems because

692
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: it's just about anybody will tell you the Myers Briggs

693
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: type inventory is based at best on some shaky science,

694
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: if at all, if you go back to the very beginning,

695
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: it's based on the theories of Carl Jung, which have

696
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: never been based on science. There are basically personal observations

697
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: by Jung, and the psychology community has disavowed Jung in

698
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: large part, so therefore anything based on his teachings and

699
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: theories is by proxy disavowed as well. But if that

700
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: weren't enough, psychology, you as a field loves going after

701
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: the Myers Briggs type inventory just loves it as totally

702
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: baseless scientifically all.

703
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 5: Right, So we've got shouldn't use it to hire and

704
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 5: fire in corporations or gift promotions. We have not based

705
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 5: on real science and scientific data. These four dichotomies are

706
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 5: problematic in and of themselves because everyone is on a spectrum.

707
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 5: You can't say, like, you know, you answered these ten questions,

708
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 5: you're either.

709
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 3: This or you're that.

710
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 5: Right, And when one of the rebuttals because I think

711
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 5: ED interviewed someone from CPP, right, Yeah, one of the

712
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 5: rebuttals about being a non repeatable experiment of sorts is like, hey, yesterday.

713
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 3: I was an e NFP and today I'm this.

714
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 5: They'll say, well, you know what, if you have different answers,

715
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 5: that means you were sort of on the cusp right

716
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 5: there in that center line on some of these questions,

717
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 5: and you might have just leapt over to that other side,

718
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 5: which means you're basically kind of down the center. Yet

719
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 5: they don't have a categorization for down the center.

720
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, because depending on as inputs it, you could answer

721
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: all twenty four questions on the feeling side and you're

722
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 1: going to get the same result as somebody who answered

723
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: eleven questions for thinking and thirteen questions for feeling. Right,

724
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: same thing, You're still both in f in that respect.

725
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: And I saw elsewhere it put like if the Myers

726
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: Briggs test measured height, you would either be tall or short. Yeah,

727
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: you could say well, actually I'm right there in the middle,

728
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: and they'd be like, well that's short, right, Or for you,

729
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: it's short. For the guy who is the same exact height, they're.

730
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 3: Tall, right.

731
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 5: And trust me, nobody this five' ten likes to be considered, short.

732
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 5: RIGHT i can say that from.

733
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: Experience because you're. Not you're in your Average.

734
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: I'm, average, Right so being.

735
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: Average the fact that there isn't a spectrum is one

736
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: one thing that really makes it in stark contrast of

737
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: other much more widely accepted psychometric. Instruments for, sure.

738
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 3: It also points out to the grabster that They're the construction.

739
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 5: Of the instrument itself is problematic because, one like we talked,

740
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 5: about it's self. Reporting anytime you're self, reporting there's going

741
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 5: to be some weird bias in, there, sure just almost

742
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 5: impossible to. Avoid and the other one is that he

743
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 5: says a couple of these dichademies are, entangled WHICH i

744
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 5: never really thought about, that but that's a pretty good.

745
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 3: Point so.

746
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,720
Speaker 5: Judging perceiving scale or correlated with answers on the sensing intuition,

747
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 5: scale and if you, like those should be separated out for.

748
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 3: Sure for. SURE i don't know why they.

749
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: DON'T i don't, either you, know because they've really put

750
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: a lot of work into.

751
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 5: This, yeah it's not baked in stone from the nineteen

752
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 5: forties and fifties and, sixties is.

753
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: It, no it's. Not and even while they were creating

754
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: it was an, ongoing exhaustive process That Missus briggs And

755
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: Missus myers engaged.

756
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 5: In, yeah we don't want to Give they spent decades on. This,

757
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 5: yes it wasn't like something they threw.

758
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 3: Together.

759
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: No the problem is is they they did it. Backwards

760
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: they came up with the personality types and then set

761
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: about creating the test that would detect these personality. Types

762
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: rather than going out and testing, people seeing what personality

763
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: types emerged and then figuring out a test to find

764
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: that and other, people they did it. Backwards that's a good.

765
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: Point it was based on young but it was not

766
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: for lack of. Trying Like as a matter of, fact

767
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: one of the first things they did after they started

768
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 1: to really establish the tests was they managed to administer

769
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: it to like five Thousand George Washington university medical, students

770
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: and they took those results and tracked the students to

771
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: see what fields of medicine they went. In they like

772
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: really worked on. THIS i read an article in The

773
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: Washington post where THIS i Think Isabelle myers's son remembers

774
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: their vacations were basically like fact finding missions all around the,

775
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: country like they would go administer a, test like everything

776
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: was about this. Test AND i worked on it for a.

777
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: Decades so, yeah the problem is it was just it's

778
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: just not based on. Science they didn't follow the scientific.

779
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: Method so, science so science kind of poo poos THE.

780
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: MBT i but, wait, wait, wait get back, here because

781
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: a lot of these criticisms fall just as easily on

782
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: every other psychometric test.

783
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 6: Around.

784
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 5: Well, yeah and that's one of the things THAT i

785
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 5: can't remember who was interviewed in, Here but in one

786
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 5: of those other articles you sent one of The MYERS

787
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 5: i don't know if it was or maybe it was

788
00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 5: a roar shack defender, said you, know like, everyone, yeah

789
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 5: it Was. Rorschak like everyone's always picking On, rorshak, right

790
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 5: when all of these psychological tests, are you, know subject to, criticism.

791
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: They, are you, KNOW i think it's really easy for

792
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: to tee off On rorshak as, well BECAUSE i mean

793
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: we're talking ink. Plots, man it is the epitome of

794
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 1: subjective self. Reporting you're, SAYING, i let's see in this,

795
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: ONE i see mom's. Boobs, yeah mom's boobs in that one,

796
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 1: Too dad's, boobs right, right exactly. So and then from

797
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: that it was strictly up to Initially, rorshak WHO i

798
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: think came up with this test in nineteen, fifteen ninety.

799
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: Seventeen what it's the Name, HERMAN i think so he's

800
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: A swiss. Psychiatrist her it. Was it was initially up

801
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: to him and then later on his followers to interpret,

802
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: this which is basically like interpreting. Dreams, yeah and so,

803
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: subjective totally subjective from beginning. That and then IN i

804
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: think nineteen se seventy, five a guy At Bowling Green State,

805
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: university which is right outside Of, toledo came up with

806
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: this a really exhaustive interpretive test that sought to quantify rorschak.

807
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 5: Answers, Yeah John, Exner and it was a test called

808
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 5: The Comprehensive system one hundred and forty. Components and in

809
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 5: this article you, sent they said That rorschak was probably

810
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 5: going away had it not been For exner's accompaniment with

811
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 5: this other, process.

812
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: Right and even, today he's got an institute In asheville

813
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: that's dedicated to The rorschach. Test, Right, so one Thing

814
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: i've noticed from researching this is each of these personality

815
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: inventories has like its adherence and its, detractors and just

816
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 1: judging from the, outside it looks a lot like colts

817
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: gathered around their various. Idols. Right there's like the origin

818
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: figurehead who came up with, it and everybody worships, them

819
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: and he's attacked by these other followers who have a

820
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: very similar. Figurehead they came up with something very, similar

821
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: but it's just different enough that there's a huge chasm

822
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: between the two and there's a lot of dogma surrounding.

823
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: It but The rorschach test in particular is apparently well

824
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: known to give wildly inaccurate.

825
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 3: RESULTS i took one, today did you? Online how'd you?

826
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 5: DO i got two out of, ten which MEANS i

827
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 5: was only two two away whatever that means from being

828
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 5: labeled like a.

829
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 3: Psychotic, so, yeah there was this four out of. TEN

830
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 3: i think there's This oh, REALLY i think that's what it. Said,

831
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 3: yeah that's. CLOSE i mean this is an online.

832
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 5: TEST i don't know if it's, like how true it

833
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 5: was to the ORIGINAL i got, it or it may

834
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 5: be the, Original.

835
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 1: Yeah it could. Be and then they have an algorithm

836
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: that runs the.

837
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 5: ANALYSIS i kept seeing all kinds of things WHEN i

838
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 5: looked at, it And i've never done an ink plot.

839
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 5: TEST i would, say, oh that looks like a, bat

840
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 5: and then they was, like, no it's like two. Bunnies

841
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 5: and then now it looks like a Cool Marti gras.

842
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: Mask did they move to?

843
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 3: You did you see?

844
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 5: Colors, well some of them were, Colored oh, okay most

845
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 5: of them were, black and they had A the ONE

846
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 5: i took had a one and a. Two, like what

847
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 5: do you? See and what's like a secondary thing that you?

848
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: See so you, know supposedly people who are supporters of

849
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: The rorschak tests, say, no, man there's we don't know

850
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: how it's. Working but if you see movement in The

851
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: rorschach ink, blots it's suggestive of depression or something like.

852
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: That and they, say statistically it's. Correlated but LIKE i was,

853
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: saying it's also notorious for giving incorrect.

854
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 3: Results, yeah like saying you have a mental. Illness, right.

855
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: Okay so there was this study in two thousand that

856
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 1: was given to like one hundred mentally sound elementary school

857
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: kids and some like high percentage of them came back

858
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: as borderline psychotic because of The rorschak, test, Right and

859
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: it's hilarious to hear stories like, That Like i'm laughing

860
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: inside right. Now but the problem is is you're at

861
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: the very least being labeled as. Psychotic, sure not a

862
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: label you want in. Society and it was because of

863
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: this ink blot test that's one hundred years. Old and then,

864
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: secondly these tests are also being submitted and accepted as

865
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 1: evidence in criminal. Trials that's the biggest part child custody.

866
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 5: Cases, YES i mean they're still given real weight and

867
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 5: lives are changed and ruined based on looking at one

868
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 5: hundred year old ink. Blots, yes and a person's subjective

869
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 5: analysis of.

870
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: That that's not. Okay, No This.

871
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 5: Howard garb in this one article you. Sent he's a

872
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 5: co author Of What's wrong with A rorshak and he

873
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 5: is head of psycho or at least at the time

874
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 5: of this, article he may still be head of psychological

875
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 5: testing for The Air. Force he said that even With

876
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 5: exner's comprehensive, system he, said only ten percent of his

877
00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 5: system even meets the most basic scientific, standards and they

878
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 5: did the examine data of over thirty Different rorschak, studies

879
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 5: and he said they all have a tendency to label

880
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 5: healthy people mentally.

881
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:08,919
Speaker 3: Ill.

882
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 5: Right and if you're trying to get custody of your

883
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 5: kid or if you are on, trial is a? Criminal,

884
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 5: like it's just that's the last thing you. Need, yeah

885
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 5: is someboddy subjective opinion of is it a bunny or

886
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 5: is it a?

887
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 3: Bat?

888
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: Oh he, said a? Bat take that, kid you know?

889
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: Quick kids LIKE i like.

890
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 3: Bunnies the.

891
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: Another one that we have to talk about is THE

892
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: Mmpi now THE mmpi dash. TOO i think as of

893
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: twenty twelve they revised it. Dramatic yeah is this?

894
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 3: One is that? Right it has over five hundred? Questions?

895
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow some of them originally were about like your bowel, movements,

896
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: okay really nutso questions that supposedly really got to the

897
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: heart of whether you were mentally disturbed or.

898
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 3: Not.

899
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah and it was created at The University minnesota

900
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 1: in the forties by a psychiatrist and a, NEUROLOGIST i,

901
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: believe and they hit upon a pretty clever. Idea they,

902
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: said we're not going to interpret the results right and,

903
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: say you, Know, oh this person said that they do

904
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: feel like smashing something, Sometimes.

905
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 3: Yeah and that means.

906
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,479
Speaker 1: This, instead we're going to come up with this test

907
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: of like five hundred and four, questions and we're going

908
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: to give it to the patient or the family and

909
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 1: staff of a mental hospital who we're sure or, sane

910
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 1: and we're going to take their answers and they're going

911
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 1: to become our control, group our. Baseline so then anybody

912
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,959
Speaker 1: who takes this, test we're going to compare the test

913
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: taker's answers to the sane control group's, answers and you,

914
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,720
Speaker 1: know depending on how it relates to the same control,

915
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: group they're either mentally ill or.

916
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 3: Not you better have gotten that control, group. Right, well

917
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 3: that's the thing to begin.

918
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: With so a group of like family and friends In,

919
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: minnesota is the picture of sanity throughout the world is

920
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: the basis of this. Test that's a huge problem with

921
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: it to begin. With, yeah but apparently a lot of people, say, like,

922
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 1: no it it really. Has it does a pretty good

923
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:17,479
Speaker 1: job of sussening it sussing out mental. Illness it's also

924
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: really good at detecting faker faking one way or the.

925
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: Other but it's it's too invasive and when companies use

926
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: it for hiring and, firing it's way too invasive and

927
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 1: apparently lawsuits have been filed against companies for using.

928
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 5: It, WELL i think that most people are far more

929
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 5: troubled than they ever let on in. Life, sure and

930
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 5: part of success in life comes down to how good

931
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 5: you are at covering that up or hiding, it or

932
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 5: dealing with it and processing it in terms with. It

933
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 5: it's just to find a core group that are quote unquote,

934
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 5: sane normal.

935
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 3: People it's just you're starting off with a.

936
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 5: Problem, yeah you ask me a faulty, premise, Right, yeah

937
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 5: there's no. Way, like everyone has their. Issues they're deep

938
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 5: dark things that their brain that they don't want anyone to.

939
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 5: Know sometimes even the people closest to them don't even.

940
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: Know, yeah and actually you're in agreement with. THIS a

941
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: sociologist Named William white who criticized THE mmpi as a

942
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: tool that helped to create and perpetuate the oppressive group

943
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: think of mid century organization man where it's basically, like

944
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: here's what we think is. Normal anything outside of that is,

945
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: abnormal and we're not going to hire you because you

946
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: don't fit into this picture of, normalcy which is basically

947
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 1: white crew Cut minnesota from the. Forties, right that's the

948
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 1: picture of. Normalcy that's highly.

949
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 5: Debatable the other THING i thought was interesting is a

950
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 5: lot of skeptics and critics point to things like THE

951
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 5: mbti and saying this is just like astrology is really

952
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 5: no different than reading your, horoscope because it's all positive.

953
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 5: Psychology at the end of A Myers briggs non, test

954
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 5: no one walks away feeling. Bad usually it's all sort

955
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 5: of positive wording and like like this is what you.

956
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 5: Are you're just, this so kind of don't worry about

957
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 5: it the same way you read your horoscope in any given.

958
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 5: DAY i, mean how many horoscopes say like today you

959
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 5: will be prone to depression and wonder what it's all.

960
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 1: About, right maybe you should work on your core character

961
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: because people don't like being around you that. Much you

962
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: don't hear that kind of. Stuff but that taps into

963
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 1: what's called The forror. Effect. Flrr there is a psychiatrist

964
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: Named Bertram.

965
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 3: Forrror, oh this is so. Interesting he will take.

966
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: It it's pretty.

967
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,800
Speaker 5: Interesting, WELL i, mean basically did he give the Same

968
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,439
Speaker 5: he had people take these tests and then gave all

969
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 5: of the people the exact same, assessment but telling everyone

970
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 5: it was tailored for them their own personality. Assessment AND

971
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 5: i think the people who just thought it was favorable were,

972
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 5: like this is.

973
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: Great well it was. Favorable he actually called it from daily.

974
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 5: Horoscopes well, yeah but what were they responding positively? To,

975
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,919
Speaker 5: well it was whether or not they wanted to feel

976
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 5: that way about.

977
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: This it was a positive. Assessment there was nothing negative in,

978
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: there so it was all positive stuff like you have

979
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: a lot of unused, potential that kind of, stuff stuff

980
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: people wanted to identify. With, Right so the more flattering it,

981
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: was the more likely the people were to, say this

982
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: is an accurate assessment of.

983
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 3: Me oh, okay so just ac the fact that it was.

984
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 1: The same one given to the entire. Class he took

985
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: their answers and threw them out and, said here's your.

986
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: Assessment they're the same one for. Everybody that's about. Right

987
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: it got like an eighty five percent accuracy from the

988
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 1: class as a.

989
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 3: Whole, well that's WHAT i.

990
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 5: Wondered it was about the fifteen percent where those people

991
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 5: just super honest.

992
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 3: Maybe and like no this really.

993
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: No people actually don't like being around. Me i'm using

994
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 1: all of my potential and they still don't like.

995
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 3: Me, yeah that's WHAT i couldn't figure. Out BUT i

996
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 3: guess that makes.

997
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 5: Sense there are people out there that ARE i THINK

998
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 5: i would be one of those that would be, like

999
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 5: this is all.

1000
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah i'm not like. That sure you got anything?

1001
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: ELSE i think. Not this is a good.

1002
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 3: One we've been wanting to do this for a.

1003
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 1: While, yeah this is a special request by me and.

1004
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: Others if you want to know more about personality, tests

1005
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: well you can go take them. Online they're kind of.

1006
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: Huge right, now find out what kind of hobbit you.

1007
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: ARE i don't know.

1008
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 3: What blocks do you live?

1009
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: In, yeah and in the, meantime you can type personality

1010
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: tests in the search bar at housetiffworks dot. Com and

1011
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: SINCE i said, that it's time for listener.

1012
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 5: Mail the only thing that should live in a box

1013
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 5: is temporary housing for a pet frog.

1014
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: That's not, bad or the stuff you find in a

1015
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 1: tree hole That Boo radley left for.

1016
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 3: You, yeah live in the.

1017
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 5: Box, hey, guys feel compelled to write you today to

1018
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 5: tell you how GRATEFUL i am for your show and

1019
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 5: praise your good. Work recently became a listener And i'm

1020
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 5: working my way through the entire. ARCHIVE i think a

1021
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 5: lot of folks might be able to relate to, this

1022
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 5: until RECENTLY i found OUT i found it really hard

1023
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 5: to relax and suffer with. Anxiety two months, AGO i

1024
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 5: read an article basically pointing out how our obsession with

1025
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 5: being productive and associated guilt is a modern. PHENOMENON i

1026
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 5: think that for, sure you know. Yep ALTHOUGH i had

1027
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 5: heard this, before something really clicked to my. Head SO

1028
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 5: i decided to abandon guilt and embrace, relaxation taking control

1029
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 5: of my own stress. Levels you guys have been a

1030
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 5: big part of. THIS i have taken the time to

1031
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 5: slowly potter around my flat gopher walks while listening and

1032
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 5: learning to your fascinating, podcasts and they've lifted my. MOOD

1033
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 5: i feel mentally healthier THAN.

1034
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:53,720
Speaker 3: I ever have. Before.

1035
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 5: Nice although the content of what you discussed might not

1036
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 5: always be, positive the way in which you explain them

1037
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 5: and your own views revive my hope in humanity.

1038
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: That is ridiculously. Flattered isn't that?

1039
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 3: Nice?

1040
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 5: YEAH i GUESS i should also mention that a big

1041
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 5: part of my tackling anxiety levels has been to abandon

1042
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,320
Speaker 5: watching television.

1043
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: And fistfuls of psychotropic.

1044
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 5: DRUG i would be really interested to know if there's

1045
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 5: been any research conducted into the EFFECT tv has upon our.

1046
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 3: Lives, Oh i'm sure there has. Been.

1047
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 5: SURE i haven't owned A tv for many, years but

1048
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 5: my partner has since subscribed to an online provider AND

1049
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,760
Speaker 5: i realized how WATCHING tv has not helped my. ANXIETY

1050
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 5: i also remember reading that AFTER TVs became mainstream In,

1051
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 5: bhutan their crime rate went up something like seven.

1052
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 3: Percent might prove an interesting topic for a future. Show.

1053
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, anyway sincerely, grateful keep it. UP i am now

1054
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 5: recommending your shows to as many people AS i. Can

1055
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 5: big love from THE.

1056
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 3: Uk.

1057
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: Mac thanks a, Lot, mac that was. Great we hear

1058
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: from a lot of people actually say that we help

1059
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,959
Speaker 1: them with their. Anxiety no idea, how but it doesn't,

1060
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: matter so thank.

1061
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 3: You. Yep.

1062
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: Yeah if you want to get in touch of, this

1063
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: Like mac, did you can and send us an email

1064
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,839
Speaker 1: To stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot.

1065
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 2: Com stuff You Should know is a production Of. iHeartRadio

1066
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 2: for more podcasts Myheart, radio visit The iHeartRadio, App Apple,

1067
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 2: podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite.

1068
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: Shows