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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports where in a situation

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Speaker 1: that we haven't dealt with in modern times, the pandemic

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Speaker 1: here has really accelerated the investments that we've been havocating

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Speaker 1: for for a year. From a macro standpoint, I think

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Speaker 1: our sport industry is really forced to look at the

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Speaker 1: business a little bit differently in depth conversations with the

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Speaker 1: leaders in the sports industry, and he sport is a

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Speaker 1: good admiration. Were still moving forward with part of something

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Speaker 1: much bigger than the sport right now, the health and

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Speaker 1: sastry of our stakeholders are real, smart important every moment.

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Speaker 1: I think we're all from a business respective thinking about

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Speaker 1: the impact that the virus is having across the country.

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Speaker 1: In Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio, Hi everyone,

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Speaker 1: I'm Jason Kelly, and I'm Mike Lynch and I'm Michael

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Speaker 1: Barr And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast

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Speaker 1: where we explore the big money issues in the world

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Speaker 1: of sports. And today we're excited to have with us

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Speaker 1: John Levy. He is the founder, chairman, CEO of The Score.

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Speaker 1: He joins us from Canada talking all about the media

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Speaker 1: and gaming business. John really nice to have you on

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Speaker 1: the show. So much going on? Uh in your world?

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Speaker 1: First of all, how are you well? Well, notwithstanding everything

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Speaker 1: that's going on touch wood, everything's good on the health front,

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Speaker 1: the family is good on the health front, and business

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Speaker 1: is just going nuts, as you guys can can well imagine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so tell me about that. I mean obviously this year

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Speaker 1: and we've talked a little bit about this before. Uh, this,

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Speaker 1: you know, this trailing twelve months as they say, now

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Speaker 1: you know fourteen months has just changed our behavior and

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Speaker 1: in so many different ways. Walk us through what it's

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Speaker 1: meant for you. Oh my gosh, So I you know,

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Speaker 1: I just can't even you know, imagine, Like, first of all,

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Speaker 1: you can't. You never could have anticipated any of this.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've been in this business for a long time.

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Speaker 1: You know, we had the TV network in Canada that

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Speaker 1: morphed into the digital business. We've got this amazing app.

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Speaker 1: It's like the second or first most popular app in

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Speaker 1: North America with all these you know, engaged users who

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Speaker 1: ultimately lost the bat on sports. Right. So we've been

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Speaker 1: planning this for a long time and and you know

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Speaker 1: last year we were getting it, we launched. We're in

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Speaker 1: a couple of states, we're ready for marsh Madness and

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Speaker 1: then both everythings all apart, right, So it's a nuts

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Speaker 1: and and you know, we were fortunate because we're funded

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Speaker 1: well and we're able to keep all our staff on,

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Speaker 1: so we kept building, you know, our unique approach, the

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Speaker 1: integrated approach to integrating betting into the media, which is

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Speaker 1: really different than everybody else, and how they're going after

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Speaker 1: the market, and you know, we just kept praying that

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Speaker 1: sports was going to come back, and they did, and

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Speaker 1: they came back with a vengeance, both on the media

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Speaker 1: side and on the betting side, right, So we're firing

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Speaker 1: at all cylinders and this very you know, sort of

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Speaker 1: pentitive environment, right, it was just scary and exciting all

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Speaker 1: at the same time. I don't know how to explain

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Speaker 1: it any other way, and that's probably how most people

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Speaker 1: feel about how they've lived in the last year. So

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Speaker 1: you know, we've obviously pulled through it. You know, we

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Speaker 1: just launched and did our listing in the US on NASDAC,

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Speaker 1: did a great race, sort of starting to show ourselves

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Speaker 1: a little bit now in the US, right, and we've

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Speaker 1: got Canada on the horizon right with us about to

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Speaker 1: have our past the moment up here. So all things good,

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Speaker 1: all things exciting. How did you guys do with the

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Speaker 1: n C Double A Tournament, both the men and the

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Speaker 1: women's tournament? Um, what I like, what I like to

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Speaker 1: say is we did a lot better than last year.

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Speaker 1: You know, we don't really talk about the specifics of it,

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Speaker 1: but it was phenomenal. I mean the first weekend, I

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Speaker 1: mean again and again, everything was out of whack. You know,

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Speaker 1: the tournament started on Friday, not Thursday, right, and and

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Speaker 1: you know everything was out of whack. But that's a

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Speaker 1: sort of tent pole event that re really shine in

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Speaker 1: both from the media standpoint and from the betting standpoint,

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Speaker 1: because it attracts so many new users. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you've got your court betters who we just are jonesing

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Speaker 1: for it and they wait for it, and you know

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Speaker 1: they're also betting all week long on basketball and hockey

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Speaker 1: and and when football was going. But that compact sports

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Speaker 1: event really drives you know, the betters, but it also

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Speaker 1: brings in a whole bunch of new betters and casual people.

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Speaker 1: And we get to take advantage of that, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the media side, and I don't mean to take

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Speaker 1: advantage of it. But I'm saying the the engagement goes

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Speaker 1: through the roof, just on our media app for for

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Speaker 1: marsh Madness. So it's really one of these amazing events.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, you're pushing the limits of your

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Speaker 1: operations too, right, I mean, because you're you're you're seeing

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Speaker 1: activity and engagement that you don't see on a Tuesday night,

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Speaker 1: or on a Wednesday night, or even on a Sunday,

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Speaker 1: because you know, during NFL season, so you know, you

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Speaker 1: prep a lot, and from our content side to you,

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Speaker 1: you've got all this amazing data and and all these

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Speaker 1: storylines happening and flying all over the place. So we

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Speaker 1: came through beautifully, so proud of our guys. And every week,

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Speaker 1: every year, it's a new experience for us as we're

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Speaker 1: growing and growing. So it was it was a terrific tournament.

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Speaker 1: Hey John, it's Mike Lynch down in Boston. So will

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Speaker 1: there always be room for the score and a fan

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Speaker 1: duel and a DraftKings, you know, sort of like Coke

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Speaker 1: PEPSI Dr Pepper? Will always be room for competitive you know,

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Speaker 1: organizations for legal bidding. But we'd like to think there's

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Speaker 1: always gonna be root for us. I can't speak for

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Speaker 1: the other guys. But you listen, it's you know what

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Speaker 1: the tam is. You know what, We're just scratching the

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Speaker 1: surface here, right. I mean I'm not I'm not, you know,

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Speaker 1: circumventing your question because I think I know what you're

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Speaker 1: getting at, because there's there is going to be consolidation

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Speaker 1: and there's gonna be winners and losers. Everybody knows that, Mike.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I think you also have to think

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Speaker 1: about it in the context of how early days this

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Speaker 1: really is, right, I mean, you know, you think about

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Speaker 1: the states that they are out there. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: New York just sort of trying to figure out what's

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Speaker 1: going on there as of as of yesterday and last night,

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Speaker 1: and this warning, right, I mean huge state still coming

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Speaker 1: on board, Miami, I mean, Florida, at Texas, you know,

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Speaker 1: California out in the wings, you know, all of Canada.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know, we're sitting right here in Ontario.

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Speaker 1: And that's the equivalent you know, not many people talk

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Speaker 1: about it, but equivalent of the fifth largest state in

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Speaker 1: the US and for us, for the score, this is

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Speaker 1: our home turm, right, I mean, you know we're we're

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Speaker 1: chasing the other guys down there. We're marking our mark

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Speaker 1: in the US. We're getting more and more safe. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've got thirty thirty plus percent of the population covered

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Speaker 1: in the US now with our access agreement, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the active agreements that we have. Canada, you know,

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Speaker 1: is hopefully just about to open up sometime in the

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Speaker 1: next number of months. You never can sort of tell

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Speaker 1: with government exactly when it's going to be a huge momentum.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, and we're really well positioned up here,

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Speaker 1: so we're excited about our positioning. And the other thing,

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Speaker 1: Mike is, you know, we're just not like the other guys.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're a media company that's integrating betting into

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Speaker 1: what we do for for a living, and we think

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Speaker 1: that really aligned better with how the consumers think about

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Speaker 1: sports betting. You know, sports betting is always just the

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Speaker 1: part of why people are passionate about sports. You know,

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Speaker 1: Michael mr Are up there. You know, you've been a

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Speaker 1: sports fan for years and you probably loved it that

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Speaker 1: on sports, but it's just one of the reasons that

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Speaker 1: you love sports, right and and that's how we've always

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Speaker 1: approached it at the score. So our longevity in this

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Speaker 1: space has a long has a history and has a

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Speaker 1: long sort of what's the opposite of a tale if

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Speaker 1: you have a long tail. I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: what the feature of a long tail a spike head

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Speaker 1: or something. But but but you know, we're always looking

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Speaker 1: down the road. And not only were we just scratching

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Speaker 1: the surface in the bedding side, but in the whole

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Speaker 1: sports digital media landscape is as you guys well know,

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Speaker 1: is just upside down. Right. Well, let's talk about that. John,

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Speaker 1: You gave us a perfect opening right before we we

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Speaker 1: came on to record with you. Lyncha was talking about

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Speaker 1: how the one pm socks game today is not on nesson,

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Speaker 1: but it is on YouTube. So we're consuming this in

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Speaker 1: so many different ways. We have the NFL obviously doing

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Speaker 1: the big Amazon deal for for Thursday nights. How does

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Speaker 1: that change the overall business? How does it change your business?

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Speaker 1: First of all, how freaking exciting is that? I mean, like,

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Speaker 1: just just think about these companies that you know are

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Speaker 1: all about engagement generally, and now they're starting to drip

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Speaker 1: into the sports side right and coming in with all

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Speaker 1: their expertise from a digital perspective. It's it's enormously exciting,

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Speaker 1: and it's not surprising. I mean, look over the last

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Speaker 1: number of years, people's consumption happens, and not just in sports,

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Speaker 1: and everything is radically changing. And you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: good to be smart or lucky lucky to be smart,

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Speaker 1: or whatever the expression is. But you know, we kind

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Speaker 1: of recognized that when we're in the TV business in Canada,

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Speaker 1: we saw our audience gravitating towards digital technology, you know,

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Speaker 1: and that and that's why we Our first app was

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Speaker 1: on that flip phone, the Razor, right, I mean, um,

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Speaker 1: years and years ago. So you start to see that.

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Speaker 1: To throwback John Levy the Razor, I remember clipping one

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Speaker 1: of those onto my belts. I'm ashamed to saying, I listen,

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Speaker 1: I don't get many people admitting that they know what

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Speaker 1: that is. But bottom line is that that, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's when we that's when we start. And then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, BlackBerry shows up out of Canada right

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Speaker 1: with a real sophisticated device, and we had technicians that

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Speaker 1: so we incubated all this stuff that you know, we

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Speaker 1: just sort of followed the audience and you could see,

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Speaker 1: you know, people were consuming sports differently. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I used to sit in front of the set all night,

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Speaker 1: you know, on Saturday night watching hockey Sunday. My kids,

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Speaker 1: even my kids were growing out and they're with me

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Speaker 1: in the business, they don't consume sports the same way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna really date myself now my grandkids. How do

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Speaker 1: you like me admitting that my grandkids, who are like

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Speaker 1: seven six spots, they don't consume content sports the same

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Speaker 1: way we did. So and you're seeing it, right, You're

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Speaker 1: seeing the major broadcast networks audiences dropping, engagement dropping, and

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Speaker 1: where they're going, They're going to digital landscape. And it's

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Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's not just about streaming what

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Speaker 1: people used to watch on the big screen in their

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Speaker 1: living room on mobile devices. It's about really concentrating on

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Speaker 1: how people are engaging with the content and doing it differently.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's kind of what we've all been about

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Speaker 1: and in terms of and that's why our app is

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Speaker 1: so popular and and we're taking the same approach of

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Speaker 1: sports betting. I mean, traditional sports betting is you know,

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Speaker 1: is what it is. And it's a huge market, you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty thillion dollars some people are estimating in the in

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Speaker 1: the in the US in terms of the revenue but

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Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's got to be done differently,

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Speaker 1: and it's got to be done in a way that's

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Speaker 1: user friendly. Um. And that's I think that's one of

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Speaker 1: the big differentiators that that you know, we make it easy, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're on our app box, you're on a

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Speaker 1: box score. You want to you want to bet, for example,

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Speaker 1: in the states where we can not in Pennsylvania yet,

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Speaker 1: but in New Jersey, you know, Colorado, Indiana, Iowa soon

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Speaker 1: more and more, we just announced Illinois. You know, you're

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Speaker 1: in the box score, or you're in the chat room,

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Speaker 1: or you're consuming some of the content and you get

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Speaker 1: this inkling that you want to make a bet boom.

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Speaker 1: You know, you build the best swipt inside the app,

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Speaker 1: or we have a bed section or or you know,

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Speaker 1: or in game, right, you guys know you're better in

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Speaker 1: game is now of all wagering is in game. And

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about reel in game. I'm not talking about

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Speaker 1: who's going to catch the next catch, which everybody talks about.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about you know, two players in a touchdown

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Speaker 1: to score and all of a sudden odds changed. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I want to double up where I want

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Speaker 1: to get out. I want to add more, right, and

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Speaker 1: you can't do that, you know, in the legacy world.

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Speaker 1: And it's got to be fast, and it's got to

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Speaker 1: be digital, and it's got to happen wherever you are.

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Speaker 1: So I'm listening to me. I can keep talking about

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Speaker 1: this forever, but it's I think the landscape is changing

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Speaker 1: and there's gonna be huge opportunities. You mentioned about your

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Speaker 1: kids and your grandkids not having that excitement in sports,

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Speaker 1: and my sixteen year old is the same way, and

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to I'm screaming my head off during a

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Speaker 1: baseball game and he's like, oh my goodness. But you

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Speaker 1: know what he is into, and you guys are into

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Speaker 1: this e sports and you guys are a huge player

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Speaker 1: in it. Yeah. Yeah, Well, first of all, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to discount your kid or my grandkids or actually

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Speaker 1: I don't wan to keep talking about my grandkids. Go

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Speaker 1: but you talk about stock kids and run by a

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Speaker 1: guy with grandkids. But but um, you know, there is

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Speaker 1: the passion for sports. I wasn't saying it's not there.

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Speaker 1: It is there. It's just different, right, But you're a

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Speaker 1: hunt that right with the sports. I mean, wow, Like

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Speaker 1: where did that come from? And you know, all the

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Speaker 1: big guys sort of looking at it saying, what does

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Speaker 1: this is the sport? Is it not sport? They're trying

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Speaker 1: to fit it in and and you know, they're trying

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Speaker 1: to to fit a round pig into a square hole

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Speaker 1: or vice versa. And we just looked at it and said, man,

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Speaker 1: look at the passion that's out there. Look, I mean Twitch,

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Speaker 1: you know getting in a bought for ninety million dollars

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Speaker 1: years ago, right, big business advertisers flocking to it. You

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Speaker 1: global acceptance. And you know, we cook the same approach.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we actually had that app called the score

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Speaker 1: e Sports at first, and it grew and then we saw,

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Speaker 1: you know what, that's not what people want. It isn't

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Speaker 1: the same as the sports landscape. So you know, we

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Speaker 1: we sort of pivoted off of that and and started

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Speaker 1: to go back into creating actually we call them, you know,

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Speaker 1: a video it was a video content. We call them franchises.

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Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, we're starting to scratch an

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Speaker 1: itch that that nobody else was really paying attention to.

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Speaker 1: It's and it makes sense. It's kind of like all

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Speaker 1: the background stories, it's all the interesting stuff that surround

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Speaker 1: the events that are taking place to tournament. You know,

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Speaker 1: these are individuals, their kids, but the teams have got

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Speaker 1: coupload of money, you know, funneling into them now and

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Speaker 1: sponsors willing to to back it. So wink wink, nudge nudge.

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Speaker 1: Some people are even betting on this stuff. We don't

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Speaker 1: take that action yet, um, because we want to let

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Speaker 1: it develop a little bit. We want to you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's you know, it's got to be approved

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Speaker 1: by the regulators. In some states it is, some states,

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Speaker 1: some staces it is, some places it isn't. But in

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Speaker 1: Europe and overseas it is huge betting going on on

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Speaker 1: this and so at the right time, that's something else

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Speaker 1: that will sort of be folded in. But we're going

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Speaker 1: to fold it in our way right from an engagement standpoint,

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Speaker 1: not just because we're jumping into it, like because we

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Speaker 1: think there's something there. You want to sort of cultivate

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Speaker 1: it first, and that's kind of what we're doing. John.

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Speaker 1: You've got four million users a month. Are you able

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Speaker 1: to extract what the average wage is on the front

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Speaker 1: of that pool? You know, it's really interesting because again

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Speaker 1: being in that unique position and that amazing position where

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Speaker 1: we have all these engaged users and we know like

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Speaker 1: of them at least love to bet on sports. And

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Speaker 1: you know, and that number is actually that's the monthly

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Speaker 1: the month, that number of four to five million is

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Speaker 1: average monthly users. When you look at things, how many

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Speaker 1: touch it on an annualized basis, it's like two or

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Speaker 1: three or four times that. So it's it's it's huge.

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Speaker 1: And they keep recycling to right as sports come on

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Speaker 1: and you know, you with with you know, you lose something,

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Speaker 1: you put your pick pick some more up. So that

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Speaker 1: number is actually a lot larger than what it even

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Speaker 1: see times on the surface. But um, you know, from

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Speaker 1: our perspective, we don't testify um sort of uh you know,

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Speaker 1: exact numbers in terms of what our betters are. But

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Speaker 1: what I can I can tell you that that um,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the and this is really early days.

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Speaker 1: And I said before in in our first four states

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Speaker 1: that we're launching in, UM, you know, when we run

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Speaker 1: our numbers and we look at projecting out what this

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Speaker 1: is going to be and what's our market share and

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Speaker 1: you know, how successful is this this whole thing is

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Speaker 1: going to be. UM, you know, we estimate you know,

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Speaker 1: um what type of bettors we're going to get and

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Speaker 1: how long you're going to live with us. And in

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Speaker 1: the early days, what we're seeing is is very very

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Speaker 1: not just encouraging, but much stronger than we anticipate. We're

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Speaker 1: attracting better betters than we than we anticipated. And because

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Speaker 1: of the nature of the ecosystem being the score with

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Speaker 1: betting infused in it, they're sticking around longer with us too.

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Speaker 1: So the lifetime value of these things is higher than

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Speaker 1: what we anticipate of our users of the better um

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Speaker 1: and and and the key stat that we really loved

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Speaker 1: is um you know, and I think I mentioned this

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Speaker 1: before publicly, of all of our score bet users are

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Speaker 1: also in the media app so UM that you know

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Speaker 1: at this point in act going to change from you know,

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Speaker 1: month to month and in quarter to quarter in terms

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Speaker 1: of exactly how it rules out, and it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: different states to state. But what that does is it

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Speaker 1: proves to us that we don't care how we're how

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Speaker 1: where the bettors are coming from, whether it's from our

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Speaker 1: user base, or whether it's from the fact that people

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Speaker 1: you know, just know our brand, or because we're out

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Speaker 1: acquiring users in the marketplace, not like the other guys,

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Speaker 1: not spending with a cack like the other guys, but

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Speaker 1: just doing it in a sort of more sensible and

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Speaker 1: I say responsible way. Um, it's building really beautifully and

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Speaker 1: the ecosystem is working because once we get them in,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're hoping to achieve the same thing that

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Speaker 1: sky Bet did in the UK, where the average number

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Speaker 1: of betting apps, for example, that a user on sky

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Speaker 1: in the UK had was significantly less than people that

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Speaker 1: weren't on that service. So what that test to watch

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Speaker 1: is people who you know, typically Michael, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how many betting apps you have or how many you use,

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Speaker 1: but typically it's three to four. And our whole mantra

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Speaker 1: is that when you come a score bet user, that

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Speaker 1: number is significantly less and you you're you're going to

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Speaker 1: predominantly play with us. So, um, that's all part of

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Speaker 1: the working model and flow. Probably you hit the nail

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Speaker 1: on the head. I am about about four betting apps

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Speaker 1: and yeah, that was that's pretty good. Your customer, No,

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Speaker 1: your customer, you probably don't have the right one yet

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna work on that. When I have to

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Speaker 1: drive you. Poor Mrs Bars would be like Uh, Michael,

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Speaker 1: there's someone at the door, and I said, the car

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Speaker 1: is running, so I don't know there's something you want

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Speaker 1: to tell me. John Levy, It's been a real pleasure

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Speaker 1: catching up with you. Best of luck in a very

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Speaker 1: busy time. Stay say stay healthy. We really appreciate the time,

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Speaker 1: as always been with you guys, so it's a pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, John. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Michael Barr, along with Mike Lynch and Jason Kelling

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Speaker 1: through her each and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, exploring

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Speaker 1: the world of money in sports. We'll catch you again

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Speaker 1: next time. You're listening to Bloomberg Business with Sports on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio around the world and online. Wherever did you

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Speaker 1: get your Bonda