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Speaker 1: From Futuro Media and PRX It's Latino USA by Mariao Rosa. Today,

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Speaker 1: the rise of disinformation and misinformation targeting Latino and Latina voters.

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Speaker 1: As the country enters the twenty twenty two midterm election cycle,

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Speaker 1: more and more attention has been given to how disinformation

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Speaker 1: and misinformation are impacting Latino and Latina voters. This roundtable

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Speaker 1: discussion is going to kick off our twenty twenty two

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Speaker 1: election cycle coverage right here at Latino USA, and I'm

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Speaker 1: joined by my in the Thick Political podcast co host Julorella.

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Speaker 2: Hey Julio, Hey Maria.

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Speaker 1: We're also joined by guests Maria Teresa Kumar, founding president

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Speaker 1: and CEO of the voting rights organization Voto Latino, and

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Speaker 1: Haime Longoria, manager of research and training for the Disinfote

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Speaker 1: defensely at the Media Democracy Fund. Hey Marie, Theresa, thanks.

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Speaker 3: For having me get asked.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Hey, Hi, May, thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 1: So today we're going to be talking about unpacking disinformation

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Speaker 1: and misinformation in our community, specifically, yes, the Latino, Latina

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Speaker 1: LATINX community. So, the midterms are happening in November and

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Speaker 1: Latinos and Latinas make up the largest ethnic voting block,

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Speaker 1: and so there's so much at stake in terms of

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Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans. The Democrats are desperately trying to hold

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Speaker 1: on to their slim majority in the Senate, and with

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Speaker 1: thirty five Senate seats up for election, thirty five, this

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Speaker 1: could really tilt the balance either way. It could set

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Speaker 1: the stage obviously for the twenty twenty four presidential election.

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Speaker 1: And we know, of course, you've got to cue the jingle.

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Speaker 1: Latinos and Latinas are not a monolith, right, So we

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Speaker 1: may be the second largest voting block, voting cohort, but

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Speaker 1: we don't vote as one, right, We're not a monolith.

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Speaker 1: This notion of disinformation, often targeted to Spanish speaking voters,

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Speaker 1: has a lot of people freaking out, I think rightly so.

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Speaker 1: And there are so many layers to this conversation, from

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Speaker 1: who's behind the disinformation campaigns, to who is being targeted,

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Speaker 1: how they're being targeted, and what is the impact of

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Speaker 1: all of this. So we're going to start at the

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Speaker 1: beginning and try to get to the root of the issue. So,

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Speaker 1: Marietre Sa Kumar, from your perspective, where does this disinformation

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Speaker 1: come from and why is it targeting specifically Latinos and

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Speaker 1: Latinas and where is it happening?

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Speaker 3: Disinformation? Oftentimes targeting the Latino community is to do twofold one.

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Speaker 3: We are a new community in participation. We've been here

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Speaker 3: for centuries. But when you think about who is a

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Speaker 3: young voter, it is squarely a young Latin. You know,

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Speaker 3: the most common age made among white people is fifty

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Speaker 3: eight years old. The most common age among Latinos is

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Speaker 3: eleven years old.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 5: Whow.

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Speaker 3: So when I say we're young, we're very young, right,

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Speaker 3: And so we're starting to come of age and most

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Speaker 3: of us are first genan. We are born in this

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Speaker 3: country and trying to navigate the political process, and there

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Speaker 3: are nefarious actors who see our potential and not only

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Speaker 3: do they want to restrict our vote, but they want

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Speaker 3: to give us dirty information so that we can stay sick,

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Speaker 3: because it's a lot of anti COVID information, so that

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Speaker 3: we don't get our vaccines, but then also that we

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Speaker 3: don't trust the government that is the entity that if

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Speaker 3: we vote them in, they can transform our lives every

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Speaker 3: single day. The only reason we are even on a

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Speaker 3: progressive trajectory in this country is because Latinos secured California

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Speaker 3: twenty five years ago, boom. And so the disinformation is

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Speaker 3: very much targeting Latinos because not only of our potential,

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Speaker 3: but because the present day participation that we're.

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Speaker 1: Seeing, right, So, Haime, it is very targeted. That's clear

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Speaker 1: from your perspective. Just take us like sixty four thousand

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Speaker 1: feet high.

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Speaker 2: What do you see in terms of.

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Speaker 1: Disinformation, Because Mariet, that is I really laid it out

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Speaker 1: for us.

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Speaker 2: Just something you want to add.

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Speaker 6: To that, Yeah, I think I think we're all probably

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Speaker 6: tired of hearing this, But just defining what mis and

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Speaker 6: disinformation is is really important. So misinformation is information that

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Speaker 6: people share that they don't necessarily know is false or misleading. Disinformation,

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Speaker 6: on the other hand, is information that has sort of

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Speaker 6: a purpose, right, Somebody puts it out there for political

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Speaker 6: monetary gain or to do some sort of damage.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 6: I think, as you said, to kind of get off

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Speaker 6: the ground a little bit, from the perspective that I

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Speaker 6: come to this research is that we're all susceptible right

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Speaker 6: across the political spectrum, across all demographics, across all ages.

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Speaker 6: Because mis and disinformation is really emotional. It works to

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Speaker 6: really target your emotional reactions, right, And we are all

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Speaker 6: sort of predisposed to believing specific things. There are examples

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Speaker 6: when things that we have called miss and disinformation or

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Speaker 6: a conspiracy theory has been true, and different communities have

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Speaker 6: different examples for that, and that sort of sets us

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Speaker 6: up to be predisposed to believing certain things. The other

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Speaker 6: thing that I want to say is that it doesn't

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Speaker 6: really matter, like facts don't really matter. What matters is

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Speaker 6: whether or not information aligns with your perception of the world. Right,

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Speaker 6: just because you hear something doesn't necessarily mean that you

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Speaker 6: care about the veracity of it, But whether or not

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Speaker 6: illicits sort of an emotion in you that makes you

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Speaker 6: either feel comfortable or makes you feel like you need

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Speaker 6: to do something.

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Speaker 4: Where the problem for me lies.

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Speaker 6: Is that Spanish language is not prioritized by the platforms.

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Speaker 6: And the other thing is that there aren't really any

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Speaker 6: sort of safeguards or safety nets in the Latino Hispanic

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Speaker 6: media ecosystem. And I think that also has a lot

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Speaker 6: to do with inherent misunderstanding, as Money pointed out, like

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Speaker 6: this inherent understanding of what the Latino community actually is,

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Speaker 6: and that happens in media and in policy. And there's

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Speaker 6: also a lack of understanding of where Latinos congregate online

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Speaker 6: and where they get their information online and also offline,

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Speaker 6: because that really matters as well, right.

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Speaker 7: Right, You know, there's so many points both of you

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Speaker 7: have brought up and to give that context. And one

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Speaker 7: of the things that we also wanted to point out

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Speaker 7: as we cover the election cycle right the midterms through

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Speaker 7: our Latino and Latino lenses here on the show is

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Speaker 7: you know, it's already politically charged, right in a post

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Speaker 7: January sixth attack on the US capital.

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Speaker 2: You know, we have the coronavirus.

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Speaker 7: Might yet that I saw you mentioned it that you've

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Speaker 7: only added fuel to the issue of misinformation and disinformation.

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Speaker 7: Then we have these false claims about COVID vaccines, to

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Speaker 7: the politicization of mask mandates. These different types of misinformation

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Speaker 7: and disinformation. They go hand in hand, right, on one hand,

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Speaker 7: health and science and on the other hand political campaigns.

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Speaker 7: So how do you think this is all going to

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Speaker 7: play together in the midterms because it is a strategy?

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Speaker 2: No? Or is that too simplistic of a take?

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Speaker 4: No, I don't think that's simplistic.

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Speaker 6: I think there is a strategy behind this, especially when

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Speaker 6: we talk about disinformation.

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Speaker 4: But if we zoom out.

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Speaker 6: Also, I'm a big fan of zooming out apparently if

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Speaker 6: we zoom out a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Like sixty four thousand feet.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, looking at the conversation, I mean, a lot of

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Speaker 6: the things that we're dealing with right now actually have

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Speaker 6: their source in mis and disinformation or even malinformation, which

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Speaker 6: is information that's true but is used in a context

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Speaker 6: that's harmful.

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Speaker 4: Right when we talk about.

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Speaker 6: Like a lot of the border policies that are going on,

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Speaker 6: there was a lot of fear mongering, right, and there

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Speaker 6: continues to be a lot of fear mongering there. And

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Speaker 6: also now all these restrictions on voting rights like that

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Speaker 6: comes from the big lie, right from all these claims

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Speaker 6: about election fraud that happen in twenty twenty. In some ways,

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Speaker 6: we can see that there is sort of this playbook

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Speaker 6: which is not new. I think we've seen it for

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Speaker 6: as long as America has had politics. But now it's

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Speaker 6: sort of interacting with platforms that incentivize polarizing content and

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Speaker 6: that really have a way of making all this stuff

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Speaker 6: spread so widely.

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Speaker 7: Madeta, how do you think this will play out in

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Speaker 7: the upcoming midterm elections?

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Speaker 2: What are the specific things that you're seeing.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of challenges. We saw the

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Speaker 3: disinformation in twenty nineteen to going into Florida in March,

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Speaker 3: and then we kept tracking it and we saw the

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Speaker 3: firestorm of the disinformation hitting the Rio Grande Valley the

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Speaker 3: mid September of twenty twenty, and we were trying to

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Speaker 3: raise the alarm, but no one pays attention to the

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Speaker 3: Latino community, not recognizing that Latinos the disinformation that we're receiving.

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Speaker 3: We're often the canary in.

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Speaker 2: The coal mine exactly now.

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Speaker 3: Oftentimes they use us because it's low hanging fruit on Facebook,

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Speaker 3: just a terrible ad. Then you figure out what really

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Speaker 3: sticks and then you send it off into the rest

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Speaker 3: of these closed networks. And we are in this crisis

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Speaker 3: mode of Latinos getting disinformation because our media is balconized.

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Speaker 3: No one has recognized us as a force for media

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Speaker 3: consumption and so we have to go and have a

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Speaker 3: different level of discernment when we go on YouTube, and

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Speaker 3: none of these folks have to tell us the truth.

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Speaker 3: Yet I have to say, you know, we talked a

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Speaker 3: little bit about the midterms. Sadly, South Texas wasn't a

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Speaker 3: surprise because again we saw it in twenty twenty, and then,

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Speaker 3: believe it or not, we saw that firestorm hitting southern

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Speaker 3: Arizona two weeks out of the election. The level of

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Speaker 3: sophistication they recognize they don't need all Latinos, they just

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Speaker 3: need to skim off the top in certain areas and

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Speaker 3: create insertacudes.

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Speaker 7: Right, And I think one of the points talking about

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Speaker 7: the online platforms, and this report has been cited previously

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Speaker 7: and I've written about it, Money has talked about it.

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Speaker 7: There After the twenty twenty presidential election, research from the

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Speaker 7: Online Advocacy Group of OZ found that Facebook failed to

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Speaker 7: flag seventy percent seventy percent.

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Speaker 2: Of Spanish lange which of misinformation.

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Speaker 7: And according to the pre Research Center in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 7: Latinos use YouTube, Instagram, Snapchat, WhatsApp, and TikTok more than

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Speaker 7: any other demographic group.

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Speaker 2: So you both have mentioned it.

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Speaker 7: Latinos are online a lot, which makes the likelihood of

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Speaker 7: running into false information higher.

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Speaker 1: Right, Because if our average age is ten eleven, twelve,

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Speaker 1: we're young. We are going to be our kids, our

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Speaker 1: grandkids are going to be on social media and consuming

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Speaker 1: all of this media. So that's just like a data point,

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Speaker 1: that's a given and how we consume media also is different.

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Speaker 1: So even though Spanish is the second most commonly spoken

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Speaker 1: language in the United States, social media companies have not

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Speaker 1: dedicated resources to flag and take down Spanish language misinformation.

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Speaker 1: It's there, but it's not really enough, and this misinformation

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Speaker 1: can be harder to detect if it's a video or

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Speaker 1: if it's shared on a private WhatsApp group. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: all of you have, you know, like how did this

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Speaker 1: suddenly end up on my WhatsApp feed?

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Speaker 2: Like how is this? Well?

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Speaker 3: This is well, usually it's my father, I mean, if

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Speaker 3: we're honest, But you really make an important point. Folks

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Speaker 3: don't realize. Imagine, Facebook is the entry way drug to radicalization.

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Speaker 3: And I don't say that lightly. If you go on

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Speaker 3: to Facebook and the stuff that they're saying oftentimes is extreme,

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Speaker 3: but what they do then is on the comments they

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Speaker 3: will tell you to join another group that is either

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Speaker 3: on WhatsApp or that is on Telegram. And then once

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Speaker 3: they're in those closed groups, that is when people become

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Speaker 3: really radicalized. I mean I have gone into some of

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Speaker 3: these rooms and the chats are absolutely misogynistic, racist, anti government.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you name it, and it is there. And

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Speaker 3: there's no monitoring that happens. And at the same time

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Speaker 3: Meta wants to wash their hands and saying, well, it's

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Speaker 3: not our fault. Well, if you were doing the exact

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Speaker 3: same thing right now on radio, you would get in trouble.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 1: The thing is that it's again, as you said, it's

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Speaker 1: not just happening online. You mentioned radio. So Spanish language

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Speaker 1: radio stations, especially in South Florida, have been criticized for

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Speaker 1: spreading disinformation on the air, including claims that the left

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Speaker 1: wing movement Antifa Antifa was behind the January sixth capital attack,

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Speaker 1: the attempted state of coupdeta in the United States and

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Speaker 1: saying that it was Antifa. So there's an element of

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Speaker 1: trust when information is given in Spanish, and that's important too.

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Speaker 1: It's actually something very particular about Spanish language communications, right.

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Speaker 1: It is always in a sense of like, we care

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Speaker 1: about you, we're interested trust us. So why is it

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Speaker 1: that Spanish language disinformation is so much more prevalent and unregulated?

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Speaker 1: And is it because we are that language that was

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Speaker 1: just like, well, it's the other it's the language you

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Speaker 1: don't really want to talk about, we don't really want

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Speaker 1: to have to deal with this, I mean, is that

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Speaker 1: where it starts? And why don't you start us off?

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Speaker 1: Iime particular, why is disinformation and misinformation such a problem

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about Spanish language in the United States.

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Speaker 6: It has a lot to do with what you were

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Speaker 6: pointing to, Madia. The more important and the more politically viable,

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Speaker 6: the more weight that the Latino community carries, the more

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Speaker 6: they are going to be efforts to kind of muddy

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Speaker 6: the waters. I think that says something that we have

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Speaker 6: reached a moment in our history as a community where

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Speaker 6: we have a lot of political power. There are other

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Speaker 6: sort of entities, other groups, other people that have the

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Speaker 6: incentive to sort of co opt that for themselves. Since

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Speaker 6: I'm sort of like knee deep in all this stuff

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Speaker 6: every day, like one thing that I always think about

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Speaker 6: is how sort of these conversations are getting politicized. I

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Speaker 6: don't really like to frame it as these are right

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Speaker 6: wing efforts to shift people to the Republican Party. That's

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Speaker 6: not how I see this for me. I feel if

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Speaker 6: you really get down into what's actually happening, is that

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Speaker 6: there are a lot of grievances and wedge issues within

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Speaker 6: our community that we as the community have not yet

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Speaker 6: addressed that open space for other people to come in

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Speaker 6: and manipulate the conversations that we're having and to sort

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Speaker 6: of affect the ways in which we see public health initiatives.

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Speaker 6: That's not to say that it's divorced from any political

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Speaker 6: context at all, Right, Like I said, it's disinformation. There

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Speaker 6: are sort of people behind the scenes pulling the strings.

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Speaker 6: But there's something to say about the fact that not

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Speaker 6: all of this comes from outside of the community, right.

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Speaker 6: A lot of the times it's people from within our

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Speaker 6: own community, people from within our own political spaces that

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Speaker 6: are the ones sort of facilitating and spreading misinformation, right,

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Speaker 6: And we don't always know. The fact that we're a

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Speaker 6: growing community that has so much political power today is

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Speaker 6: really why I think we're at the forefront of a

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Speaker 6: lot of this targeting.

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Speaker 1: Helping up on Latino US say what outreach is being

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Speaker 1: done with Latino and Latino voters to combat the problem

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Speaker 1: of disinformation and is the work making a difference? Stay

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Speaker 1: with us, don't stay by. Yes, Hey, we're back, and

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Speaker 1: here's the rest of our conversation about disinformation and misinformation

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Speaker 1: with my in the Thic co host j We're joined

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Speaker 1: by marietarees A Kumara vot Latino and Jimenrongoia from the

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Speaker 1: Disinfo Defense League at the Media Democracy Fund.

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Speaker 2: Let's jump back in.

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Speaker 1: So the thing is, Mariet is I think that you

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Speaker 1: would probably say to Jime, actually, it is very specifically

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Speaker 1: being targeted to shift the politics. That is the intention.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that that is? I do,

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Speaker 1: because him is kind of like it's it's just like

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Speaker 1: a vulnerability. But you're like, nah, there's a much more

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Speaker 1: specific and I would say nefarious intention here.

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Speaker 3: When you take a step back of why do you

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Speaker 3: have disinformation? And Hima said something that is right. We've

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Speaker 3: always had disinformation in politics. Autocrats are the ones that

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Speaker 3: peddle disinformation. Non functioning democracies are the people who peddle

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Speaker 3: disinformation because they don't want you to be able to

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Speaker 3: trust anything or anyone, let alone your government. And that's

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Speaker 3: the reason that the Latino got in the game was

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Speaker 3: because we saw two barriers to a thriving democracy for

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Speaker 3: the Latino community. One is the voting restrictions that are

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Speaker 3: very much as a result of the boom and the

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Speaker 3: Latino population. Most people don't realize that the gutting of

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Speaker 3: the Voting Rights Act Shelby County made had a two

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Speaker 3: hundred and ninety seven percent increase in the Latino population

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Speaker 3: in twenty ten. That is not by accident. And then

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Speaker 3: the other one is disinformation. If you have a new

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Speaker 3: community that is learning about democracy, that it's learning that

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Speaker 3: their government pay work because the government that their parents

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Speaker 3: led may not work, then you actually have a window

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Speaker 3: of distrust that you have because they're getting familiar with it.

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Speaker 3: And again, I don't think that it's by accident that

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Speaker 3: the people that are heavily targeted in our politics and

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Speaker 3: in disinformation are the extreme right people that are uneducated

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Speaker 3: white men who are sitting on the fence and getting cultivated,

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Speaker 3: and the Latino community who was growing because they also

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Speaker 3: see our potential that seemed to be aligned with the

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Speaker 3: democratic values right.

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Speaker 6: And also, just to be clear, I don't completely divorce

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Speaker 6: this from politics either. Honestly, there are Latinos within the

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Speaker 6: community that do take part in spreading mis and disinformation obviously,

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Speaker 6: and I think a large part of the discourse really

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Speaker 6: flattens what Latinos believe in, right. I think this is

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Speaker 6: a lot of questions that I got from reporters as

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Speaker 6: or like why are Latinos believing in misinformation and shifting

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Speaker 6: to the right. We can't really say for sure. There's

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Speaker 6: a conversation about whether or not disinformation actually affects real

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Speaker 6: world change, and obviously the answer we would all say

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Speaker 6: is that yes, of course, but we don't have any

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Speaker 6: quantifiable evidence of that. We don't know how it exactly

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Speaker 6: does that. We don't know if it's enabling people to

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Speaker 6: do it or if it's the cause of people actually

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Speaker 6: going and shifting their beliefs completely. I think we really

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Speaker 6: still need to study this.

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Speaker 4: A lot more. But I think what I'm very wary.

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Speaker 6: About as someone who does this research is that the

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Speaker 6: politicization of mis and disinformation studies is a really dangerous trend.

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Speaker 6: This is only a part of the picture of what

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Speaker 6: is like a sort of a wider political malaise society wide.

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Speaker 6: Trust institutions is completely lost. And I'm not denying that

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Speaker 6: there are campaigns out there that are working towards shifting

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Speaker 6: Latino's sentiment, but misin disinformation is a symptom of a

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Speaker 6: larger issue, and this is only one way in which

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Speaker 6: that's being enabled.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: No, And I think that you know, one of the

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Speaker 7: things in this context is the organizing and outreach that's

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Speaker 7: being done with Latino Latino voters to counter this issue.

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Speaker 2: So just a couple examples.

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Speaker 7: At the grassroots level, there's a lot of local organizations

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Speaker 7: that are partnering to get accurate information about COVID to

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Speaker 7: their communities. Right, and some Spanish language radio stations like

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Speaker 7: Radio Bilingue and Radio and Dihena have programs aimed at

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Speaker 7: providing health resources for their listeners. Producer Lisa Salina spoke

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Speaker 7: with Jose Munos, who is a deputy communications director at

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Speaker 7: United We Dream Action, which is the first and largest

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Speaker 7: immag gant youth led organization, about the work their organization

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Speaker 7: is doing to combat disinformation. Let's listen to what Jose said.

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Speaker 5: There are some LATINX folks who are solely consuming stories

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Speaker 5: about immigration. So these are more tactical, more transactional stories

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Speaker 5: about the system of immigration. Those tend to be young

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Speaker 5: Latino males and older LATINX audiences over thirty five across gender.

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Speaker 5: And then the second piece of consumption for folks is

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Speaker 5: immigrant stories. These are stories about people you know. These

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Speaker 5: are stories about folks who are seeking a better life

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Speaker 5: in the US. One of the things that we found

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Speaker 5: within that was that young Latino males they have sort

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Speaker 5: of a content vacuum where they're not actually getting a

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Speaker 5: lot of stories about immigrants. The immigration stories that they're

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Speaker 5: getting tend to come from more conservative places, and it

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Speaker 5: really leaves this content a vacuum for them that makes

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Speaker 5: them easier targets for racialized disinformation about the role that

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Speaker 5: immigrants play in this country.

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Speaker 7: That was a specific example, and both of you are

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Speaker 7: working on a larger scale like the Latino Anti Disinformation

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Speaker 7: Lab that you co chair Maria, Theresa and Hime. In

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Speaker 7: addition to your research on COVID nineteen vaccine misinformation, you

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Speaker 7: work with the Disinformation Defense League, which seeks to fight

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Speaker 7: racialized disinformation that targets black, Latino and other communities of color.

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Speaker 7: Hi may talk to us about the work you're doing.

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Speaker 7: How do you measure impact and success? So we'll start

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Speaker 7: with you, Hymen, and then Maria Trees how you can

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Speaker 7: jump in.

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Speaker 6: What we do is basically, we're a network of more

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Speaker 6: than two hundred and fifty organizations who come together under

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Speaker 6: the umbrella of combating the harmful effects of mis and disinformation,

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Speaker 6: specifically looking at communities that are racialized in the United States.

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Speaker 6: We try to make these connections between folks on the ground,

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Speaker 6: not only working at the national level, but also folks

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Speaker 6: working within their communities at really smaller community organizations, and

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Speaker 6: we want them not only to connect with themselves and

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Speaker 6: to talk about the strategies that they're using, but also

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Speaker 6: giving them access to experts that are doing advocacy research,

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Speaker 6: someone like myself that works in nonprofits and does the

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Speaker 6: research every day looking at what narratives are trending and

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Speaker 6: what's going on online. And we connect them with academics

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Speaker 6: as well, because there's a whole world of people in

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Speaker 6: academia doing this work that they never have any contact

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Speaker 6: with folks on the ground. That's the main thing that

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Speaker 6: we're trying to do, bridging all of these gaps. My

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Speaker 6: wider goal is really to pull all of this expertise.

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Speaker 6: I want to give that to the community, right. I

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Speaker 6: want to foster in community expertise, because who is there

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Speaker 6: better to understand their community than the people who actually

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Speaker 6: live in it. And we have a couple of areas

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Speaker 6: specifically looking at Asian American disinformation and hate speech. We're

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Speaker 6: looking at immigration dis and malinformation. We're looking at also

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Speaker 6: how best do we transfer the research into real world

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Speaker 6: act because that's something that's really lacking in this space.

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Speaker 6: We have the research, but how does that look like

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Speaker 6: in the real world? How do we do this stuff?

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Speaker 6: So we're kind of all over the place. But the

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Speaker 6: main goal really is connecting and bridging the gaps of

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Speaker 6: this whole area of studies so that people can really

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Speaker 6: come together and start to make solutions and not just

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Speaker 6: talk about the issue itself.

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Speaker 1: So, Madyetnis, I'm wondering, I mean, that is a lot.

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Speaker 1: Heima said, we're kind of all over the place, and really,

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about this, the thing about disinformation and

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Speaker 1: misinformation is that it too is kind of all over

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Speaker 1: the place. And I think that's part of the strategy.

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Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about the work that

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Speaker 1: you're doing, how you measure it. And also, I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: that when you were trying to get this issue out there,

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Speaker 1: you had a lot of people just like huh huh,

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Speaker 1: and so you've faced a lot of challenges in trying

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Speaker 1: to launch this thing that you're taking on.

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Speaker 2: It's not like it's a building, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, it's a much more complicated right, you know, So

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Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about those challenges.

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Speaker 3: We did something very simple in twenty twenty. We created

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Speaker 3: a model where we identified people who were sitting on

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Speaker 3: the fence when it came to any type of electoral participation.

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Speaker 3: And this was a big sample size. We did four

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand people. We divided them into two groups. Two

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand and received you know, a go by a

437
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 3: Gillette shaver for your legs, and the other two hundred

438
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 3: thousand received a vote registered to Vote AD. The two

439
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 3: hundred thousand that received that AD, they were nine times

440
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 3: more likely to search voter registration information and how to

441
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 3: register to vote. That is indicators of behavioral change. Vote

442
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 3: Latin in twenty twenty registered over six hundred and fifty

443
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 3: thousand people. Seventy percent of them went out and voted.

444
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 3: But we learned so much that we then applied it

445
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: to COVID because we found that the person who was

446
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 3: vaccine hesitant had very similar markers than the person that

447
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 3: was local pensity voter hesitant, and so we were able

448
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 3: to again work very closely serving ads, and this time

449
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 3: it was even more enlightening the people who saw the

450
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 3: COVID vaccine AD. We did this in July of last year,

451
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 3: high density Latino zip codes could have had the vaccine

452
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 3: by the middle of July, but had decided not to.

453
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 3: Those people that saw our ads fifty four times more

454
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 3: likely to search get a COVID vaccine. And so now

455
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 3: what we have in the field is using the information

456
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 3: of how to identify people who are vaccine hesitant, again

457
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 3: learning what are they consuming. Oftentimes we'll say, you know,

458
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,479
Speaker 3: Latinos consume x amount of Twitter, that's important, but what

459
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 3: are they consuming on Twitter? That's equally, if not more important.

460
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: And so that's where we are right now. We hope

461
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 3: to have that setting done by the middle of June

462
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 3: and then we will share it with our partners and

463
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: grassroot organizers. We want to be able to do the

464
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 3: research but then applied immediately into the field because time

465
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 3: is short and once someone has created a real distrust

466
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 3: of government that person we will never be able to

467
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 3: bring them back.

468
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: So to bring it back kind of to the beginning,

469
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: it's happening because of the incredible demographic growth and strength

470
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: of the Latino and Latina voter. It's actually about voters

471
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: who can, as marietrees I said, shift what's happening in

472
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: this country. So there tremendous amount of power within the

473
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: Latino and Latina voting population, you know, just empirically there is.

474
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: So we actually want to understand a little bit more

475
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 1: about the impact of the campaigns. Right, So the biggest

476
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: thing that we have to acknowledge is that a huge

477
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: chunk of people Latinos and Latinus too, you know, this

478
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: whole notion of it. Is there misinformation? Is there disinformation?

479
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: Is it a real issue? We know that there are smart,

480
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: politically engage people out there who think that you know

481
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 1: that this is a hoax or this is just like

482
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: it's the leftist media that has you thinking that there's

483
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: misinformation and disinformation. And we have to reconcile these two ideas.

484
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: One that there actually is harmful Spanish language disinformation targeting

485
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: our communities, and at the same time that Latinos and

486
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 1: Latinas are not a monolith and that they're not always

487
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: easily manipulate. Right, that these two things can happen at

488
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: the same time. So, Mariete is a what do you

489
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: say to people who think that, oh, you know what,

490
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: just calm down, gil Minza gal Man say, because you're

491
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: saying actually the opposite, you're saying Latinos and Latinas are

492
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: the canaries in the mind in terms of mis and disinformation.

493
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: So what do you say to the people who are

494
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: like Marie is overreacting? Yeah, you're overreacting.

495
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 3: So first of all, I'm sure as a good Latina

496
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 3: no one can say.

497
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 2: Because it's not in Yeah, I gotcha, really.

498
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 3: Now, But when you look at disinformation and the amount

499
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 3: of harm it's costs. Let's go back to COVID. If

500
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 3: you look at the deaths among Latino's age zero to

501
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 3: twenty four, age twenty four to thirty four, Like, if

502
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 3: you look at that categorically, we are roughly about twenty

503
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 3: percent of the population across the board, but for people

504
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 3: under the age of sixty five, we represent close to

505
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 3: thirty percent of the deaths within h age category. We

506
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 3: are overrepresenting in those age categories. And one of the

507
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 3: leading factors of it is because we were vacting hesitant,

508
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 3: And it has everything to do with the way people

509
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 3: are presenting information to us, and we don't know how

510
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 3: to necessarily navigate it because we trust our friends more

511
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: than we trust someone in the lab cot. Right.

512
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 7: But I think this is the part where, at least

513
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 7: in covering this issue. As a political journalist and as

514
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 7: an opinion writer and editor, there still is this feeling

515
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 7: that this is a non issue, Hima, that this is

516
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 7: way too much attention is being given to this Latino

517
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 7: and Latino voters are being portrayed as dumb because they

518
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 7: fall for this and it's disrespectful and insulting and patronizing.

519
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 7: And people are free to decide on whoever they want

520
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 7: to vote for.

521
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: So is there a disconnect there, because that's the part

522
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: where I don't understand. Is this a political issue.

523
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 7: Is this going to impact voters or is it just

524
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 7: Democrats saying, hey, Latinos, you're being misinformed, vote for US,

525
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 7: and Republicans saying, you know, don't trust those Democrats because

526
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 7: they're they think you're all stupid.

527
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 2: Your thought timing.

528
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's exactly the balance that I tried

529
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 6: to tread when I talk about the research that I do,

530
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 6: and I think Madya you put it really well earlier

531
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 6: as well, that we can have bigger conversations about yes

532
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 6: and right in a way, the way that we talk

533
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 6: about this miss and disinformation discourse is miss and disinformation

534
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 6: in itself.

535
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 4: We can say that, like there are political powers.

536
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 6: Here who want to co opt the language of miss

537
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 6: and disinformation for the benefit of their political goals, and

538
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 6: not just in spreading miss and disinformation, but in convincing

539
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 6: communities that they should or should not believe in it.

540
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 6: I think it's grossly irresponsible to tell people that this

541
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 6: is overblown. I think it's a very serious issue for me.

542
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 6: What we still need to do as an area of

543
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 6: study is we need to really look closer to what

544
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 6: the actual impact is. And it's a difficult question to answer, Like,

545
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 6: we know what we've seen, know what people say the

546
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 6: election fraudnard is in twenty twenty, and then the insurrection

547
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 6: also vaccine hasn't I could go on and on and

548
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 6: on and on.

549
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: No, you could go through the list. It's all good,

550
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: it's scary, we can laugh.

551
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: But actually, you know, if you are consuming this and

552
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: it's overwhelming and it's constant.

553
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. For me, the question is

554
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 6: like to what measurable extent did this push and enable people, Like,

555
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 6: were these folks susceptible already to this misin disinformation or

556
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 6: did this just provide a framing for the things that

557
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 6: they already wanted to do? Does it make it easier

558
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 6: to rally people around specific cause like, yeah, we've seen that.

559
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 6: It definitely does. Absolutely there's something here. Absolutely we need

560
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 6: to pay attention. Absolutely we need to sound the alarms,

561
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 6: and we're doing that too, But there's still a barrier

562
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 6: of how this actually shifts sentiment. We need to be

563
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 6: really cautious because sometimes blaming miss and dist info lets

564
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 6: other institutions.

565
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 4: Off for their own failures. That's the thing that I

566
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 4: want at the center of this.

567
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 6: But also it's dangerous and people are being targeted and

568
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 6: it's being used for political means.

569
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 4: I want to have that yes and conversation.

570
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: Thank you for putting in that context and for all

571
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: of your work, And thanks to the three of you

572
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: for joining me on Latino USA for this really important conversation.

573
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: Appreciate it.

574
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

575
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: Thank you, Maria. It's always great to be on Latino

576
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: USA with you.

577
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Norsaudi and edited by Julio

578
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: Ricardo Barella. It was mixed by JJ Carubin. The Latino

579
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: USA team includes Andrea Lopez Crusado, Marta Martinez, Daisy Contredras,

580
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: Mike Sargent, Julieta Martinelli, Victoria Strada, Patricia Sulbaran Alejandra Salasad Rinaldo,

581
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: Leanos Junior and Julia.

582
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: Rocha, with help from Rari Perees.

583
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: Special thanks to the rest of the In the Thick

584
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: team as well, Harshana Hata, Lisa Salinaz and Sarah Harshander

585
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: and remember subscribed In the Thick. Our director of Engineering

586
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: is Stephanie Lebau. Our senior engineer is Julia Caruso. Our

587
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: associate engineer is gabriel A Bias. Our marketing manager is Louisetuna.

588
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: Our fellows are Elisa Baena, Monica Morales Garcia and Andrew Vignalis.

589
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: Our theme music was composed by Sena Rubinos. I'm your

590
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: host and executive producer marieo Josa. Join us again on

591
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: our next episode. In the meantime, look for us on

592
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: all of your social media and remember not Tevayas and

593
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: see you on our next episode.

594
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 8: By Latino USA. Is made possible in part by the

595
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 8: Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of

596
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 8: social change worldwide, the Heising Simons Foundation Unlocking Knowledge, opportunity

597
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 8: and possibilities more at hsfoundation dot org, and the John D.

598
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 8: And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation.

599
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 6: I'm like a sad goth and then very pessimistic is

600
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 6: a sad goth too.

601
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: I've not felt that way, Okay, I just want to

602
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 2: double check because I'm with him.

603
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 4: Man, I'm a sad goth too,