Speaker 1: Hi, Hi everybody. Hi Catherine, Oh, hi Chelsea. Hi. What's
Speaker 1: going on? It's May. We're deep into throws of bank.
Speaker 2: This year is going by very quickly, so fast, it's
Speaker 2: what's happening. I don't like it.
Speaker 3: It just like rained for several months and then all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, a summer.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, since summertime is coming, and that means my
Speaker 2: family is coming. Ooh, who's visiting? Everybody's visiting? No, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: no one's visiting. I actually am homeless. In June, I
Speaker 2: become homeless. Oh no, July and August.
Speaker 1: Yes, my house is not ready until August.
Speaker 2: And I decided to give up my rental because it
Speaker 2: just makes no sense that I've been in this rental
Speaker 2: and I'm home.
Speaker 1: Twice a week. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I take a couple of months off of touring
Speaker 2: and I'm just going to bounce around Europe and Africa.
Speaker 3: Oh fantastic, that's a great place.
Speaker 1: Those we came home, all.
Speaker 2: My nieces to Africa waiting have they been before?
Speaker 1: No, none of them have been.
Speaker 2: Only my sissy and I have been to Africa, and
Speaker 2: we're going back together and we have that She's like,
Speaker 2: you're going to be really sick of me, or which
Speaker 2: is coach for she's going to be sick of me
Speaker 2: and my fucking mood swings. But where we have two
Speaker 2: weeks together and then we have one week of just
Speaker 2: a romantic couple.
Speaker 1: In the villa, right, and then I have three weddings.
Speaker 2: I have Ben Bruno's wedding, I have my cousin Ted
Speaker 2: his wedding, and then I have someone else's wedding.
Speaker 1: I'm a groomsman and Ben Bruno's wedding, so that's a
Speaker 1: lot of responsibility. But that's the only thing I'm flying
Speaker 1: back for.
Speaker 2: So I'll be in the stage for a weekend for
Speaker 2: Ben Bruno's wedding.
Speaker 3: Just like jet lagged af and then no, I.
Speaker 2: Think we can fuck around that quickly, like it doesn't
Speaker 2: have time to catch up, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: If I go in and out real quick of time zones,
Speaker 2: then it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: Then it's like fine, I know, well, I am abandoning
Speaker 3: my husband to go to Mexico for a week with
Speaker 3: a couple of my girlfriends.
Speaker 1: Nice, I know, I'm very week.
Speaker 3: For about like five days, four nice five days. We've
Speaker 3: got like a little spot that we love to go
Speaker 3: and me and the same two girlfriends have gone.
Speaker 1: Like the last few years. Nice.
Speaker 3: That's awesome, nice, very nice. So he has three pugs
Speaker 3: to take care of all by himself, love you.
Speaker 2: Mmmm well, they'll probably be perfectly trained by the time
Speaker 2: you get.
Speaker 1: Of course they will.
Speaker 3: They'll be seven whole months old.
Speaker 4: Well, hey, Chelsea, just like you and your sister, she's
Speaker 4: looking to become a midlife lesbian.
Speaker 1: Oh is she? Oh? Wow?
Speaker 2: Well that must be a reflection of your performance, Bratt.
Speaker 2: I do try well, not hard enough, I guess.
Speaker 1: Well, whoopsie do at all? Well?
Speaker 3: On that note, should we intro our guest for today?
Speaker 1: I am so excited? Oh yes, we haven't.
Speaker 2: Reformed Mormon on my favorite topic of conversation, Mormonism.
Speaker 3: Yes, And you know what, I'm not a big Housewives fan,
Speaker 3: but The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City is the
Speaker 3: only one that I actually watch, and Heather is my favorite.
Speaker 3: I think she's great.
Speaker 2: But I'm just gonna say for the record, I don't
Speaker 2: watch the Housewives. I've never seen The Housewives. I saw
Speaker 2: what episode once as a favorite of my assistant to
Speaker 2: try and figure out what she's interested in, and I
Speaker 2: decided I'm not interested anyway. So I just want to
Speaker 2: make that claimer because I don't want to pretend that
Speaker 2: I've seen a show that I haven't seen, even though
Speaker 2: that's probably polite for the guest. Our guest is a
Speaker 2: housewife and she's currently starring in The Real Housewives Ultimate
Speaker 2: Girls Trip Thailand. And she recently opened the second location
Speaker 2: of Beauty Lab and Laser in Utah. And she is
Speaker 2: a New York Times bestselling author of Bad Mormon, owner
Speaker 2: of Beauty Lab and Laser, and star of Bravos Real
Speaker 2: Housewives of Salt Lake City.
Speaker 1: Heather Gay Hi, Heather, Hi.
Speaker 5: I'm so nervous.
Speaker 1: Oh, don't be, don't be. We're gonna have to just Oh,
Speaker 1: I need a hit of it Inhaler, Do you have
Speaker 1: another one? Fuck? I should have brought my.
Speaker 3: Chelsea's and Haler's have a little more tea in them.
Speaker 1: I just yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: I just was pulling out the things that are in
Speaker 2: my purse that my house keeper packs me up with
Speaker 2: every day because I'm like a little baby that going
Speaker 2: off to school.
Speaker 1: Every time I leave the house, and she has.
Speaker 2: Like little stones, crystals, gummies with THHD and then a
Speaker 2: little heart, a little heartstone that says strength, and she's like,
Speaker 2: this is so funny.
Speaker 1: I go, I know, but what I'm missing is a
Speaker 1: fucking in.
Speaker 5: Hale or it's like a diaper bag exactly. You need
Speaker 5: halar and then like a quiet book and some cheerios.
Speaker 2: And that's like, yeah, exactly, all right, Heather, there's no
Speaker 2: reason to be nervous.
Speaker 1: What are you nervous about?
Speaker 2: Are you nervous about talking or are you nervous about
Speaker 2: the questions I'm gonna ask.
Speaker 5: I'm just nervous because I'm excited, you know. I'm like,
Speaker 5: this is a big, big moment for me, Chelsea handler.
Speaker 5: You know, I'm trying to like not be too effusive
Speaker 5: and just be cool. Just be cool.
Speaker 2: That's my mantrage Yeah cool, cool cool. Yeah great, that's
Speaker 2: a great start for all sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, Heather, we I read your book. We both read
Speaker 2: your book about leaving Mormonism. And I speak for both
Speaker 2: Catherine and myself when I say we are fascinated by Mormons.
Speaker 3: Yes, And Chelsea has a family connection.
Speaker 2: I do have a family connection because my sister was
Speaker 2: a Mormon for a while and then I think she
Speaker 2: slowly stepped out of it. She hasn't brought it up
Speaker 2: in years, so we just pretend that it's over.
Speaker 5: And mention it.
Speaker 2: But my mom was Mormon, and she was from Germany actually,
Speaker 2: and she grew up Mormon, which is interesting, and then
Speaker 2: they came over to the United States.
Speaker 1: So I know a little bit about Mormonism.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess I probably know more than the average
Speaker 2: person because I lived with and we had, you know,
Speaker 2: the church at our house all the time. And what
Speaker 2: I do find very amusing though in modern times, in
Speaker 2: today's times, is that what Mormon people do to avoid
Speaker 2: having sex that actually is sex, Like what is it called.
Speaker 1: I've done these things.
Speaker 5: On dogging, arm pittying, all the things.
Speaker 2: And it's like, hey, guys, that's fucking just so you know,
Speaker 2: you're still having sex.
Speaker 5: Any hole, but the holy hole. That's the mantra.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hate when religion tells you not to have sex.
Speaker 2: Religion is the root of all evil as well. Okay,
Speaker 2: so tell us about your departure, because it happened probably
Speaker 2: as a result of you being on the Housewives Right
Speaker 2: of Salt Lake.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean going on house was for sure like
Speaker 5: rip the band aid off. It'd been kind of a
Speaker 5: slow bleed, but with like the church. You just don't
Speaker 5: leave when you're surrounded by it and it's your family
Speaker 5: and it's everybody, you just don't talk about it. If
Speaker 5: you're not living it. You do it quietly and silently,
Speaker 5: you know, behind the closed doors. But you tow the
Speaker 5: line and you play the game. And I had been
Speaker 5: doing that for years and then, but I knew that
Speaker 5: if I went on reality television, I had to own
Speaker 5: it one way or the other. Either had to become
Speaker 5: a devout Mormon again, which was out of the cards
Speaker 5: and probably would take like a huge disciplinary process through
Speaker 5: the church for that to happen, or I had to.
Speaker 1: Just stop right there. What kind of disciplinary processes are there?
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, every you meet with your local leaders regularly,
Speaker 5: so like you meet with them quarterly or anytime that
Speaker 5: you get a new assignment or anytime there's a shake up,
Speaker 5: like with leadership. And they are men in your neighborhood
Speaker 5: that you go to church with weekly, So they're not
Speaker 5: kind of They're not like guys you can pull the
Speaker 5: wool over their eyes. It's men that like know if
Speaker 5: you're showing up to church, they know you in the community.
Speaker 5: They know if you're wearing a modest clothing. They know
Speaker 5: if you're messing around, they know you. You know, they're
Speaker 5: your neighbors and your friends, and they are also your
Speaker 5: leaders and they're in charge of you. So you have
Speaker 5: to answer very specific a list of questions every time
Speaker 5: you meet with them in order to like get a calling,
Speaker 5: or go to the temple and have your temple license,
Speaker 5: which we call a temple recommend renewed, and it's a
Speaker 5: digitized just like a driver's license. You go to the temple,
Speaker 5: they scan it. If it beeps, you get to go in.
Speaker 5: If it doesn't, you are on.
Speaker 3: You're out on the street.
Speaker 4: So if you.
Speaker 5: Answer those questions wrong, then there's a disciplinary process and
Speaker 5: they decide how bad it was. If you messed up,
Speaker 5: like if you said I drank a beer, you could
Speaker 5: probably just handle it with your bishop locally right there.
Speaker 5: But if you had an affair, if you had sex,
Speaker 5: if you associated with any anti Mormon group, if you
Speaker 5: weren't wearing your garments day and night, then they would
Speaker 5: kick it up to a regional leader, and that regional
Speaker 5: leader would determine if the sins were merited. A disciplinary council,
Speaker 5: which is a group of twelve men from the surrounding
Speaker 5: area called area authorities, and they're your friend's husbands. Like
Speaker 5: it's not just it's not just a panel. It's like
Speaker 5: the people that you go to church with that you see.
Speaker 5: It's the principle. It's like the entire community, like the doctor,
Speaker 5: the baker, the candlestick maker, and they're all just kind
Speaker 5: of like Handmaid's Tale. They're all sitting at a around
Speaker 5: a table in white shirts, ties and suits, and you
Speaker 5: sit there and you tell them all of your sins.
Speaker 5: You tell them how many times you've had sex with
Speaker 5: the person, or drank or you know, stepped out, anytime
Speaker 5: you've broken the rules. They make you detail. It's kind
Speaker 5: of like a venting of an airing of sins.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like scientology.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like an audit. I guess it would be similar
Speaker 5: to like an audit. And then they determine, they meet,
Speaker 5: they'd send you out, and then they determine your punishment.
Speaker 5: And it can be excommunication, it can be probation. It
Speaker 5: can be called disfellowship. And disfellowship means you can't take
Speaker 5: the sacrament, you can't say public prayers, you can't teach lessons,
Speaker 5: but you still have not lost your baptismal covenants. If
Speaker 5: you're excommunicating, you have to get rebaptized, you have to
Speaker 5: go through the missionary discussions, you have to pretend like
Speaker 5: you're a virgin in the Mormon Church.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: And I think it's so interesting too that you say
Speaker 3: like a panel of men, because it is men. It's
Speaker 3: not a jury of your peers, including women and other people.
Speaker 3: It is just men who are the leaders of the
Speaker 3: Mormon churches.
Speaker 4: Men.
Speaker 2: I mean, really, religion is the beginning of patriarchy. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 2: really was, because before that we were a patriarchal society
Speaker 2: and it became patriarchal because of religion. So when you left,
Speaker 2: your mother's still part of the church, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5: My whole family, except for two siblings, are all active
Speaker 5: devout members that have never acknowledged the book, have not
Speaker 5: sent a text, not sent a note, not mentioned it
Speaker 5: at Christmas dinner. Nothing, It's like it doesn't exist. The
Speaker 5: show existed for the first few months, like they would
Speaker 5: talk about it because it was kind of tittillating and
Speaker 5: fun and might be innocuous. But then once I wasn't
Speaker 5: speaking well of the church, once I was drinking on camera,
Speaker 5: you know, swearing doing all the things. Then they acted
Speaker 5: like they just turned the television off and it does
Speaker 5: doesn't exist either.
Speaker 1: Denial is also part of religion.
Speaker 2: It's completely denial of reality or things that don't you know,
Speaker 2: vibe with what you're putting out there totally.
Speaker 3: We were just talking about this, like how you're going
Speaker 3: on a Real Housewives sort of was at the same
Speaker 3: time as you were starting to leave the church or
Speaker 3: have these sort of epiphanies of like maybe this isn't
Speaker 3: for me, and that your bishop when you asked him
Speaker 3: if you should go on the show, actually said like yes,
Speaker 3: but take a glass of milk anytime you're at a
Speaker 3: party with alcohol, so you're presenting the appearance of not drinking.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, the facade.
Speaker 3: Is something that I find so interesting in what you
Speaker 3: talk about.
Speaker 5: Well, we believe it's like a codependence, like we have
Speaker 5: a responsibility to not only share the gospel and convert
Speaker 5: everyone in our circle, but to represent for like anyone
Speaker 5: in around us. We don't speak or dwell on sin.
Speaker 5: We don't talk about it, Like when I got my
Speaker 5: reckless drive and he's like, don't speak of it. This
Speaker 5: is not part you know, just stamp it out forget
Speaker 5: it ever happened. And you think that that would be
Speaker 5: like that would cultivate a culture of positivity, but it's
Speaker 5: really just a culture of shame and secrecy. Also, we're
Speaker 5: supposed to be the happiest people on earth, so it's
Speaker 5: a big you know, there's a conflict there, there's an edge.
Speaker 2: Is that what Mormons think they are the happiest people
Speaker 2: on earth?
Speaker 5: Well, we believe that the plan, the Mormon Plan, is
Speaker 5: the plan of happiness and that men are that they
Speaker 5: might have joy, you know that is and your righteousness
Speaker 5: is absolutely you know how Jewish people can be like
Speaker 5: upset and Jewish and it's like they can still be
Speaker 5: devout Jews Mormons. If you don't have a smell on
Speaker 5: your face, you must not be righteous, you must not
Speaker 5: be blessed, you must not love the Lord because we
Speaker 5: believe that like our choices dictate our blessings, and happy
Speaker 5: people are blessed. You know, that's a sign of how
Speaker 5: blessed you are, is how happy you are. So we're
Speaker 5: fronting not only just to ourselves but to our community
Speaker 5: because it's status. The happier you are, the higher your status.
Speaker 1: And do they care about money and wealth? And all
Speaker 1: of that individually.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean we're we're I think we're tempered,
Speaker 5: well meaning, like frugal people, like we're with so full
Speaker 5: and I don't think like I'm a spend thrift, but
Speaker 5: like we believe, like the only people that get the
Speaker 5: high leadership lines are the extremely wealthy in the church
Speaker 5: because they have to have discretionary and time and income
Speaker 5: because they devote, you know, thirty hours a week to
Speaker 5: shepherding the community as you know, lay leaders in the church.
Speaker 5: So you can't you can't have a fifty hour a
Speaker 5: week job and also be a bishop, you know.
Speaker 2: And you're also the only religion, well maybe not the
Speaker 2: only religion. I think there's some Middle Eastern religions that
Speaker 2: also adhere to this. But then you have living prophets,
Speaker 2: like men are just named to be or deemed a
Speaker 2: prophet while they're alive, which is such a crock of shit.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a if you want me to believe
Speaker 2: in profits, then they at least have to be dead.
Speaker 4: It's true.
Speaker 5: It's the true and living prophet. We believe he's the
Speaker 5: voice of God on the earth, and he has twelve
Speaker 5: apostles that meet with him. And they do a conference
Speaker 5: semi annually and we all listen to it. It's hours long.
Speaker 5: And at the last conference, they denounced transgender, they denounced
Speaker 5: diverse city, they denounced same sex marriage, they denounced everything.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I thought the Church of
Speaker 2: Latter day Saints had put out a statement saying they
Speaker 2: accepted gay people into the church. They don't condone it,
Speaker 2: but they accept them.
Speaker 5: No, you as long as you don't act on it.
Speaker 5: You can can't law of chastity, you cannot be gay,
Speaker 5: you can't can't or touch same sex. And the only
Speaker 5: people they get to heaven are sis gender heteronormative heterosexual marriages.
Speaker 2: But if you're gay and you put your penis and
Speaker 2: another woman's vagina, but you don't move it back and forth,
Speaker 2: that's okay, right, you'll be.
Speaker 5: Heralded in heaven. If you're gay and you put in
Speaker 5: a vagina and you do move it back and forth,
Speaker 5: and you have children and you toe the line and
Speaker 5: you raise a family up unto God and you deny
Speaker 5: your sinful feelings of homosexuality is how we would.
Speaker 3: Look at it, right, So just be a totally different
Speaker 3: person and you'd be fine.
Speaker 5: And then when you get to heaven, God will fix you.
Speaker 5: And that's what I would tell my kids, you know, like,
Speaker 5: it wasn't really that I believed this whole hardly is
Speaker 5: just what I lived. It was my neighbors, it was
Speaker 5: their friends, it was what I did, you know, twenty
Speaker 5: hours a week. It was just my entire world. But
Speaker 5: as soon as I had to answer a hard question,
Speaker 5: we would just say, God'll figure it out, don't worry
Speaker 5: about it. You know, it'll never happen to us. And
Speaker 5: then you get divorced, and then you get a duy
Speaker 5: or whatever happens, and it's happening to you, and your
Speaker 5: kids are growing up and you have to face them,
Speaker 5: and you have to face yourself, and if you go
Speaker 5: on TV, you have to face the TV audience. But
Speaker 5: there were some hard stops that forced me to just
Speaker 5: to do this, to kind of leave openly and leave loudly.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't say proudly, but loudly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I like it. I'm behind you one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: As they say, I'll say one hundred and seventy five percent.
Speaker 2: No one's saying that.
Speaker 5: That's good, thank you, thanks, you're welcome.
Speaker 2: So this is a local question. I was just reading
Speaker 2: the paper over the weekend about Salt Lake, the Lake
Speaker 2: of Salt Lake, the Great Salt Lake, and how it's
Speaker 2: deteriorated and it's basically a quarter of the size it
Speaker 2: was even twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: I have a question, do you know if this crazy.
Speaker 2: Snowfall that you guys got and around Salt Lake City
Speaker 2: is going to change the size of that lake.
Speaker 5: Mormons have been praying for moisture every single prayer in
Speaker 5: church and constantly, and so because we've been seeing the
Speaker 5: Great Salt Lake dry up and it's a sign of
Speaker 5: the end of days, last coming and or global warming,
Speaker 5: you know, we take it over the.
Speaker 6: Lap.
Speaker 5: And I mean it was snowing this morning. It was
Speaker 5: a blizzard this morning, so I'm hoping. But you know,
Speaker 5: I don't care much about the moisture and the Great
Speaker 5: Salt Lake. I should, but I'm just not deeply invested.
Speaker 5: It smells I know.
Speaker 2: Well, I just don't want to deal with what's happening
Speaker 2: in this world right now. It is so scary and
Speaker 2: oh anyway, sorry, I digress. So I want to talk
Speaker 2: about your relationship with your mom. So your mom are
Speaker 2: you She's not talking to you because you left the church, right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean and Ashal, Yeah, Like I saw her
Speaker 5: at Christmas. We didn't even exchange Christmas greetings barely. I
Speaker 5: gave her like a stiff hug, and then everybody just
Speaker 5: ignored me and said, how are you keeping busy? And
Speaker 5: what are you going to do when your youngest graduates
Speaker 5: from high school? And I thought, live my life, like,
Speaker 5: I mean, they just don't. It's just this really weird,
Speaker 5: strained thing that I feel like, why am I here?
Speaker 5: Like why am I like pandering to these people and
Speaker 5: acting like they are interested in anything I'm doing when
Speaker 5: they're totally making me feel crazy?
Speaker 2: And why are you there so your children have a
Speaker 2: relationship with your family or because you really do. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm sure you still would like a relationship.
Speaker 5: But I mean I've thought a lot about that because
Speaker 5: Christmas was a little bit more intense. The book was
Speaker 5: coming out in February, was right there, all the press
Speaker 5: was hitting, and I thought about it, and I think
Speaker 5: that one, I don't want to be one of those
Speaker 5: weird people that their family hates them.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: It just seems like it's like this sign that you're troubled.
Speaker 5: So I think there's part of that that like wants
Speaker 5: that validity or reassurance. But also for my kids, I
Speaker 5: feel bad. And also I grew up with tons of cousins,
Speaker 5: and I grew up with this like multi generational family
Speaker 5: feeling Sundays where everyone getting together and Christmas Eve, like
Speaker 5: all of my friends with their ten siblings and all
Speaker 5: their kids, and I just, you know, I want that
Speaker 5: for them, and I feel like I have to create that,
Speaker 5: so I, you know, chase after it, but it doesn't
Speaker 5: exist for me here. It's really me and my kids,
Speaker 5: and that's it. You know.
Speaker 2: Another interesting thing, The main thing that breaks up families
Speaker 2: is religion, because gay people get separated from their families
Speaker 2: when they're religious. I mean, isn't that so ironic when
Speaker 2: you think about it, because even people still talk to
Speaker 2: their siblings when they murder someone and their kids and
Speaker 2: their fathers. But if you're not religious and I'm religious,
Speaker 2: then it's over.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, my siblings won't extend like readings of Love,
Speaker 5: but they've all like made sure they did disparaging reviews
Speaker 5: of the book. You know, don't read it, read the
Speaker 5: Book of Mormon. Instead. They feel like it's supporting me
Speaker 5: or supporting God, and if you're up against God and
Speaker 5: someone's devotion to God, you're never going to win, you know,
Speaker 5: I'm never They're never going to pick me over their martyrdom.
Speaker 5: And it's just it feels like it's battle. Like I
Speaker 5: keep saying, maybe my next book will be Bad Love
Speaker 5: How to Escape toxic families, because I don't want to
Speaker 5: have to go after them anymore and and prove myself
Speaker 5: or accept them or understand them or explain it. I
Speaker 5: just don't want to feel that sadness anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and how did your kids handle all the separation
Speaker 2: from the church and everything.
Speaker 5: Well, they were like wary at first, but then when
Speaker 5: they realized. Well, I think my college daughter, when she
Speaker 5: realized it, she could go to college and drink and
Speaker 5: be a true sorority girl. She's living her best life.
Speaker 5: She's nineteen, a fan of Barbara, and I'm living vicariously
Speaker 5: through her, you know. I just it feels like a
Speaker 5: second life for me to watch her just party. And
Speaker 5: when I went to parents' weekend, she like came out
Speaker 5: in this braw thing and she's say, it's lingerie. I
Speaker 5: turned into a shirt, you know. And when I was
Speaker 5: at college, I had to have cap sleeves. I wasn't
Speaker 5: allowed to wear anything that didn't touch my knees or
Speaker 5: I'd get reported to the Honor Code office, you know.
Speaker 5: Like it's just to see her like be kind of
Speaker 5: sex positive and free and party. And she suggested a
Speaker 5: drink to me, and I was just like, whoa. You know,
Speaker 5: I just didn't grow up like that. And it makes
Speaker 5: me feel like I broke the chain a little bit.
Speaker 5: And my you are into it too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that must feel good for you for your kids.
Speaker 5: It's good.
Speaker 2: It's a real mama bear move, breaking that kind of cycle,
Speaker 2: you know, anything so restrictive. I just feel like it's
Speaker 2: such an inhibitor to a person's development.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think it's it's what you said about
Speaker 5: the patriarchy too. I mean I had three daughters and
Speaker 5: it's like I've raised them alone and I've never I've
Speaker 5: never needed their dad. I feel bad saying that, you know,
Speaker 5: but like I've done it on my own, and I
Speaker 5: for them, it's more like that no restrictions. They can
Speaker 5: become and be whatever they want. And I think that
Speaker 5: it really was healing for them to see their mom
Speaker 5: do this and not have to. You know, we decorate
Speaker 5: the house how we want. We don't ask for money
Speaker 5: for the movies. Like we are a matriarchal little society
Speaker 5: and that makes me fucking proud.
Speaker 1: I like it.
Speaker 2: How's your relationship with your ex husband? Well, I'm assuming
Speaker 2: you guys don't talk that.
Speaker 5: Much, but yeah, we don't talk to them much.
Speaker 1: He's Mormon, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5: He's Mormon. He uh. He like started doing spiritual thoughts
Speaker 5: with the girls when he'd see them, and trying to
Speaker 5: make sure that he could like countermand any negative influence
Speaker 5: I was giving them. But he's just not a big
Speaker 5: influence in our life, you know. He he left and
Speaker 5: we just have been on our own since the girls
Speaker 5: were little.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: He left in twenty eleven.
Speaker 1: Aren't you so glad he left.
Speaker 5: I'm so glad. I'm so glad. I'm so glad. I
Speaker 5: would have I would have been one of those Martyred moms,
Speaker 5: just resentful. Probably. I don't know what I would have done,
Speaker 5: but I wouldn't have been the mom I wanted to
Speaker 5: be to my kids, because I would be trying to
Speaker 5: raise them so that he thought I was a good wife,
Speaker 5: you know, and not raising them just to be these
Speaker 5: like spirit animals whatever they want to be, and that
Speaker 5: feels like the most freeing honestly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because whatever I read or hear about a breakup,
Speaker 2: because you know, when you're in the thick of it,
Speaker 2: obviously doesn't feel good and you can't see the forest
Speaker 2: for the trees.
Speaker 1: But whenever I read or hear about.
Speaker 2: It or I'm talking to someone, I'm like, I just
Speaker 2: want I want you to just have thirty seconds of
Speaker 2: a window into your life in six months and going
Speaker 2: to say thank you, Like absolutely, it's always always okay.
Speaker 2: Everyone survives breakups over and over again. There is a
Speaker 2: period of time where you think it's unsurvivable, and then
Speaker 2: you move into the next phase, and then you get
Speaker 2: to a phase where you're like, well, thank god somebody
Speaker 2: ended that so I didn't have to.
Speaker 5: It's absolutely true. I think we need to change the
Speaker 5: narrative around it, like change the narrative that women need
Speaker 5: a man to be complete or satisfied, and change the
Speaker 5: narrative that divorces the scarlet letter and the mark of failure,
Speaker 5: like have a man in college, have a man to
Speaker 5: have kids with, then raise them with somebody else and
Speaker 5: retire someone else, or just be single your whole life,
Speaker 5: like I will never remarry. I don't want my daughters
Speaker 5: to necessarily even put it on their vision board. But
Speaker 5: I grew up with hope chest and baby names, and
Speaker 5: my dad said, I'll pay one hundred dollars for every
Speaker 5: baby you name off the sealed envelope. You know, it's
Speaker 5: just this weird concept of everything I was raised to
Speaker 5: do is just to be a wife and mother. So
Speaker 5: I had to reframe all of that when it fell apart,
Speaker 5: and all of that was steeped in religion, religion in
Speaker 5: the patrio.
Speaker 2: And also instead of calling it a breakup, we should
Speaker 2: just call it getting back together with ourselves.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, like I'm going back to me.
Speaker 5: I'm coming back for you, baby, I'm coming.
Speaker 2: Back, circling back and then I'll branch out later down
Speaker 2: the road for sure.
Speaker 1: What's happening with your love life these days? Heather?
Speaker 5: Just like absolutely nothing. I mean, come on, I just
Speaker 5: for a while, I was like kind of hoping that
Speaker 5: like the celebrity and stuff would like get me laid
Speaker 5: and it would just have like.
Speaker 2: No, it's harder to get laid when you're a celebrity.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I just think guys don't really like strong,
Speaker 5: funny women. I just think they don't. Honestly, it's just
Speaker 5: not attractive.
Speaker 1: To No, it's not.
Speaker 2: It's not attractive because that's what they're supposed to provide.
Speaker 2: So if you're providing the same thing, they don't need it.
Speaker 2: They're like, well, wait, I'm the strong one.
Speaker 5: Yeah, why are you here? Yeah?
Speaker 2: They may think they like it, but when it's put
Speaker 2: into practice, it's a much different endeavor. Although that's not
Speaker 2: to say all men. Obviously, there are men out there
Speaker 2: that can handle a strong woman. I've met them, and
Speaker 2: I've dated some. Most of the ones I've dated, though,
Speaker 2: have been brief. Maybe I wasn't able to recognize it.
Speaker 2: But it's a sometimes this is a show. It's head
Speaker 2: for a couple of months.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Yeah, but you should be
Speaker 1: on some I hope you're on some sites or something.
Speaker 5: I haven't gone online. I think I'm still kind of
Speaker 5: steeped in this shame of like the spinster woman. That's
Speaker 5: like trying to find a man, like I don't know,
Speaker 5: Like I feel like when I got divorced and I
Speaker 5: had kids, it was over, like I had to just
Speaker 5: now be this mom. But now I'm at this space
Speaker 5: where I'm feeling myself a little bit. I want to
Speaker 5: get out there, but I'm not online. And I also
Speaker 5: tend to just date like really young, dumb guys that
Speaker 5: are just in it for the fun, you know, And
Speaker 5: that's just feels like treading water. And it makes me
Speaker 5: feel validated and like I'm not dried up and I'm
Speaker 5: still active out there, but it's just it also feels
Speaker 5: a little bit just like spinning your wheels. I don't
Speaker 5: know if I'm comfortable enough in my new identity to
Speaker 5: like be with the person without.
Speaker 1: It's still no yeah, it's still new and there's no rush.
Speaker 2: I mean, I take so much time to myself after
Speaker 2: every relationship, just to get back together with myself. Like
Speaker 2: I said, like I'm like, all right, I know I'm
Speaker 2: not going to be single forever. You're not gonna be
Speaker 2: single forever. There's gonna be dalliances and then there's gonna
Speaker 2: be relationships. That's just the nature of life and being
Speaker 2: a person that's outgoing enough to be on television. Like, yes,
Speaker 2: it's harder to meet people, I think when you're a celebrity,
Speaker 2: because it's just an awkward kind of mix, you know what.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's strange, Like I go through my dms
Speaker 2: and when guys are like hitting on me or whatever,
Speaker 2: I'll take a look at their profile.
Speaker 1: But if it's a private account, I'm not going.
Speaker 2: To follow you to find out if you look like.
Speaker 2: I'm not that desperate, you know what I mean. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna look like, oh okay, because you can look
Speaker 2: through a whole Instagram page and get a good idea
Speaker 2: of what kind of person you're dealing with. And I'm
Speaker 2: not opposed to hooking up with a stranger on the
Speaker 2: road that hits me up.
Speaker 1: I'm down. I just have to be too.
Speaker 2: I have to make sure that you're like normal and
Speaker 2: smart and you know, not an idiot, and you don't
Speaker 2: have like, you know, spiky jewelry or something.
Speaker 5: Like a Samurai sword above your bed.
Speaker 2: Any jewelry is a non starter for me on a man,
Speaker 2: I don't want to see anything. But anyway, okay, Well,
Speaker 2: we're happy that you're here today, and we're happy that
Speaker 2: you're a free of the church, free of marriage, and
Speaker 2: feeling yourself because that is the best combination that you
Speaker 2: could hope for, is to be able to well, not combination,
Speaker 2: The best tenant. I think for anybody is to be
Speaker 2: feeling yourself. And I'm sure that it took you a
Speaker 2: long time to feel this good.
Speaker 5: Oh for sure. I mean it's like within the last
Speaker 5: few weeks. It's really ever since I hit the best
Speaker 5: seller list. That's really when it clicked.
Speaker 1: No arguing with congratulations on that, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: As we said before, the book is called Bad Mormon
Speaker 2: in case you missed it, So make sure you pick
Speaker 2: up a copy so we can keep either on the
Speaker 2: New York Times list.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So Catherine, what do you have in store
Speaker 1: for Oh, some good stuff.
Speaker 3: I am going to need your help getting one of
Speaker 3: our callers, laid ladies.
Speaker 2: A great, great coming from two people who.
Speaker 3: We've got some mom stuff and we've got an ex
Speaker 3: Mormon divorce thing going on. So we'll take a quick
Speaker 3: break and we'll be right back with Heather and Chelsea.
Speaker 1: And we're back. We're back. Hi, Hi, Hi, Heather, Chelsea
Speaker 1: and Catherine, it's Chessa.
Speaker 5: It's straight to be back.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 3: Our first email comes from Kara. Kara says, dear Chelsea,
Speaker 3: I'm the mother of three girls, ages eight, five, and two.
Speaker 3: My oldest who will turn nine in September was just
Speaker 3: diagnosed with central precocious puberty syndrome, and I am struggling.
Speaker 3: So basically what that means is like, she's just going
Speaker 3: through puberty super early. She's already taller than most of
Speaker 3: the other kids in her class and has started to
Speaker 3: develop breasts and other signs of puberty. We're a really
Speaker 3: open house and we talk about body parts and periods
Speaker 3: and all of that.
Speaker 1: But I'm struggling.
Speaker 3: What I'm struggling with is teaching her body empowerment and pride.
Speaker 3: She's absolutely gorgeous, but feels out of place compared to
Speaker 3: the other girls in her class. We're also at the
Speaker 3: stage where when we try to talk about things, she
Speaker 3: gets embarrassed and either shuts down completely or hello hormones,
Speaker 3: lashes out and yells, which she then feels terrible about.
Speaker 1: Later.
Speaker 3: She's the only one in her class who has to
Speaker 3: wear a bra, and some of the other kids have
Speaker 3: noticed and asked why. I come from a long line
Speaker 3: of body shamers and struggle with my own self image,
Speaker 3: so I try not to say things about my weight
Speaker 3: or my looks in front of my daughters, unless I'm
Speaker 3: saying how absolutely bang in an outfit is that day,
Speaker 3: but yet I still feel like I'm failing. She will
Speaker 3: only wear oversized T shirts to school now, even though
Speaker 3: she has a whole closet full of clothes she picked
Speaker 3: out but has now decided she's quote too big four
Speaker 3: and will say things like I miss wearing that outfit.
Speaker 3: Mornings are rough because getting everyone out the door and
Speaker 3: the outfit picking can lead to big emotions. I just
Speaker 3: want her to feel comfortable and confident in her skin.
Speaker 3: Any suggestions, Thanks so much, Kara.
Speaker 1: You've raised three girls. Yeah, you go first, your mother here.
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, listen, get a prescription for xanax, get
Speaker 5: some therapy. It's going to be a referend. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 5: this is you know, it's like it doesn't change. Like
Speaker 5: you can't teach body, and you can set a good example.
Speaker 5: You can create a safe space where they don't have
Speaker 5: to worry about it. You can pull them from school
Speaker 5: if it's horrible, because it's just like just the intuitive
Speaker 5: to what your kid needs and what helps me when
Speaker 5: I because I try to control and fix and I'm
Speaker 5: great at presenting, you know, like I want them to like, well,
Speaker 5: you know, don't we're oversized. It makes you look boxy,
Speaker 5: like I know all the shit because I grew up
Speaker 5: with it, right, But I'm so over it, and I'm
Speaker 5: so sick of trying to like overcompensate for what I
Speaker 5: look like and trying to read the room and see
Speaker 5: who's safe and who's likes. People that are do not
Speaker 5: have good bodies or you know what I mean. But
Speaker 5: at eight, man, that's way too early to even deal
Speaker 5: with it. So I would just say, try to remember
Speaker 5: who you were when you were eight, not what your
Speaker 5: body looked like or not how people treated you, but
Speaker 5: who you were inside, and then talk to your daughter
Speaker 5: like you would wish somebody to talk to you when
Speaker 5: you're eight.
Speaker 1: You know, well she actually she's nine, right, well almost nine?
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah almost nine?
Speaker 2: Okay, so well, Heather, thank you for listening. Then I
Speaker 2: would also add in, I think the most powerful thing
Speaker 2: you can do with a little girl is let her
Speaker 2: do whatever the fuck she wants, clothing wise, whatever she wants.
Speaker 2: Obviously she can't dress in a negligee when she's six.
Speaker 2: But I think, however, kids feel the most comfortable that
Speaker 2: they're gonna feel is the most important, because comfort is
Speaker 2: a paramount to everything and if she wants to wear big,
Speaker 2: baggy clothes for the next two years, letter, that's better
Speaker 2: than the alternative, you know what I mean, or the
Speaker 2: opposite end of the spectrum. Because kids have to be
Speaker 2: confident in who they are. That is the number one
Speaker 2: thing that amounts to a decent sense of self esteem
Speaker 2: and a sense of self Like you have to know
Speaker 2: your personality and be able to move in the direction
Speaker 2: that you feel, and your parents are there to guide you,
Speaker 2: not to stop you. You know, you have to guide
Speaker 2: children in the right direction. They're endangering themselves. That is
Speaker 2: a separate issue. But as far as expressing themselves through
Speaker 2: clothing or feeling comfortable in their clothing, I think that
Speaker 2: anything goes and just be there to be a guide
Speaker 2: and a support system for this incremental period of time
Speaker 2: that will be over when all the other girls at
Speaker 2: school get boobs. Yeah in two years.
Speaker 5: Yeah boats. I was thinking what you said earlier, Like
Speaker 5: it gets better, It'll change. It's just it's just one
Speaker 5: year of school. And like if we look back on
Speaker 5: our lives, I remember maybe one thing from second grade
Speaker 5: or one thing from third grade, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 5: just focus on the good and the fun and just
Speaker 5: kind of barrel through the bad.
Speaker 2: As the parent just know that it'll be one year,
Speaker 2: because the kids don't understand one year.
Speaker 1: When you're nine, you've only had nine.
Speaker 2: Year eight years, so you're like a year sounds like
Speaker 2: an eternity. Also, another quick story is I used to
Speaker 2: when I got my boobs. I got them really young,
Speaker 2: when I was twelve at the time. Now it's getting
Speaker 2: even younger. But I taped them down because I was
Speaker 2: so embarrassed because they were big right away.
Speaker 1: They came in overnight, and I remember my mom.
Speaker 2: I taped a lot of things down at different times
Speaker 2: in my life, and my mom saw me do it.
Speaker 2: I did it with my thighs once to make my
Speaker 2: thighs smaller, and she kind of said, you can't do
Speaker 2: that again. But when she saw it do it with
Speaker 2: my boobs, she just went, oh, honey, and she didn't
Speaker 2: say another word about it. I was embarrassed that she
Speaker 2: caught me because we didn't have an open dialogue about
Speaker 2: that stuff, Like I was kind of private about it.
Speaker 2: But after she caught me, I was like, oh, I
Speaker 2: started doing it in front of her and she never
Speaker 2: said anything about it, and I didn't do it for
Speaker 2: very long, because it wasn't long before everyone else had
Speaker 2: boobs too, and then I was like, oh, okay, all right,
Speaker 2: we're all together here.
Speaker 5: That's smart.
Speaker 3: One thing too, that might be helpful is doing a
Speaker 3: little closet purge. Like make it a fun thing. Take
Speaker 3: a Saturday and go through and be like, you know what,
Speaker 3: we're going to go on a shopping trip. Find some
Speaker 3: stuff that you like better than what you have now,
Speaker 3: So let's go through the closet and just do a
Speaker 3: little closet purge in anticipation of buying her a few things.
Speaker 3: You know, but I think it's gonna love.
Speaker 2: She's good, But I think it's you know, wearing an
Speaker 2: oversized T shirt is a very significant part of.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's like, that's what you do at a certain age,
Speaker 2: and it's usually when you're developing.
Speaker 1: Now, I see.
Speaker 2: Girls that are really young and that want to show
Speaker 2: off their bodies. I'm like, oh wow, look at you.
Speaker 2: They seem too young to be doing that. But I'm like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck do I know? Like what can't you know?
Speaker 2: Let them do whatever like makes them happy and confident, confident.
Speaker 5: It's tricky with women because we want to say, like,
Speaker 5: you're not your body, you're your personality. But that's a lie.
Speaker 5: Beauty is currency for women, and we have to fight
Speaker 5: it and like overcome it every single day and it sucks,
Speaker 5: you know, but it's it's hard to be honest with
Speaker 5: your kids, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, waking up every morning having to overcome my own beauty, it's.
Speaker 1: Exhausting and taxing.
Speaker 2: I look at myself and I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: girl's tricky. You better stay in today if you don't
Speaker 2: want to see any car accidents.
Speaker 1: Okay, what do we have next?
Speaker 3: Okay, well, our next question. This is a caller who's
Speaker 3: going to be joining us, and her name is Meg.
Speaker 3: She says, Dear Chelsea, thank you so much for being
Speaker 3: my inspiration for what a socially conscious, independent and hilarious
Speaker 3: woman can and should be. I'm hoping to channel some
Speaker 3: of your power as I overcome my life's biggest hurdle
Speaker 3: so far. My husband and I married at eighteen and
Speaker 3: twenty two, respectively. We've been married almost thirteen years and
Speaker 3: have a fourteen month old son to care for. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: I left the Mormon church at twenty five, and my
Speaker 3: husband followed me out three years later. It's now been
Speaker 3: three years of us being together as post Mormon people,
Speaker 3: and three challenging years of couple's therapy after he had
Speaker 3: an affair in his initial panic over his departure from
Speaker 3: the church. Now he's saying he feels claustrophobic and can't
Speaker 3: recover from the religious trauma he endured while in our marriage.
Speaker 3: He says he still loves me, but that he needs
Speaker 3: us to separate to find himself. I respect that he's
Speaker 3: been through a lot. He was raised in the church
Speaker 3: while I was a convert, so it wasn't as traumatic
Speaker 3: for me. How do I learn to set boundaries with
Speaker 3: the only person I've lived with for thirteen years. We're
Speaker 3: stuck living together for at least the next few months
Speaker 3: when our lease ends. And then what I backburnered my
Speaker 3: career for twelve years while he became an MD. I've
Speaker 3: never been a single adult and I'm thirty one. I
Speaker 3: am excited for the possibilities that lie ahead after his
Speaker 3: pain subsides, but feeling lost in the soup of all
Speaker 3: this change. Please help me find my power. I'm done
Speaker 3: feeling like a victim. I just don't know how to
Speaker 3: start belonging to myself after all this time, with love
Speaker 3: and gratitude. Meg Hi, meg hi.
Speaker 1: Meg hi. Look at how cute you I am.
Speaker 5: You can't worry about you?
Speaker 1: Ready for your life?
Speaker 3: Girl?
Speaker 5: Poor face begins now.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you have your whole world in front
Speaker 2: of you.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, you're gonna be okay, you're gonna be great.
Speaker 5: You're gonna be better than great.
Speaker 4: Wow. Done.
Speaker 5: Give yourself the same freedom he wants because you deserve
Speaker 5: it just as much and you will love it. And
Speaker 5: just make sure he takes the baby half the time
Speaker 5: so that you get the same break.
Speaker 4: Ye. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I feel like there should be commercials for divorce because
Speaker 2: there are so many upsides for divorce. A. You get
Speaker 2: your kids fifty percent of the time, which sounds crazy
Speaker 2: to people when you have babies because mothers can't be
Speaker 2: apart from them. But do you understand how much freedom
Speaker 2: that is going to bring to your life. When you
Speaker 2: have a responsible fifty fifty to fifty divorce with your spouse,
Speaker 2: you get to explore a whole other world, and that
Speaker 2: world is of.
Speaker 1: Someone without children.
Speaker 2: Obviously, you're never without your children when you're a parent,
Speaker 2: but like you're gonna be able to operate go on
Speaker 2: trips with girls. Go, you know, do whatever you want
Speaker 2: in your free time.
Speaker 4: Date.
Speaker 2: And I also want to just say, like, I think
Speaker 2: you have a great opportunity. You have so many opportunities,
Speaker 2: but you have a great opportunity during.
Speaker 1: This transition hout of your marriage to.
Speaker 2: Really cement a great friendship with your ex husband soon
Speaker 2: to be. You have a chance right now to show
Speaker 2: up in a way that you're gonna admire.
Speaker 1: Yourself if you do it the right way.
Speaker 2: Later you're gonna admire yourself for acting with grace and
Speaker 2: acting with dignity understanding that this is okay, that he's
Speaker 2: gonna go, and you know he needs to be by himself.
Speaker 2: That's great because you're gonna be by yourself too, and
Speaker 2: that's also great. And use this time to separate with
Speaker 2: dignity and love so that you can maintain this really
Speaker 2: healthy friendship with appropriate boundaries for you for the rest
Speaker 2: of your lives that you guys have to deal with
Speaker 2: each other with your children.
Speaker 5: You know, amen, I agree.
Speaker 2: And so when you're talking about boundaries right now, this
Speaker 2: is a great time for you to set up boundaries.
Speaker 1: And boundaries don't have to be about what you need.
Speaker 2: They have to be about what both people want, Like
Speaker 2: he's allowed to say what he wants as well, and
Speaker 2: you're allowed to say what you want, and then you
Speaker 2: compromise and meet somewhere in the middle. And it's a
Speaker 2: great pathway to divorce. Like, which is where it sounds
Speaker 2: like you guys are headed. So like all of this
Speaker 2: lead time. Heather didn't have any lead.
Speaker 1: Time when her husband left her. He just sent her
Speaker 1: a letter and like cent her divorce papers.
Speaker 2: A lot of divorce as or divorce men don't get
Speaker 2: lead time, So like that's a huge gift right there.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean to phase out of a marriage,
Speaker 2: because once your head is there, like it's gonna follow
Speaker 2: its suit.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: This like three months or six months or however long
Speaker 2: you stay together until the marriage is over.
Speaker 1: But what did you mean when you reference boundaries in
Speaker 1: your letter?
Speaker 4: I think it's hard. We live in a very small
Speaker 4: house and we are taking care of a very young child,
Speaker 4: so there is a lot of being together overlap our
Speaker 4: social networks. We're pretty codependent, so we have a lot
Speaker 4: of Like my best friend is the wife of his
Speaker 4: best friends, so they're still overlapping events. But and I
Speaker 4: think honestly, just hearing everything you just said is amazing
Speaker 4: because it feels good now that we've sort of let
Speaker 4: each other go. But it's also been my whole adult
Speaker 4: life and all of these changes, and it just I mean,
Speaker 4: my mom overheard me talking to him on the phone
Speaker 4: yesterday coordinating things for the baby, and she was like,
Speaker 4: you guys are so nice to each other, and I
Speaker 4: was like, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's.
Speaker 4: Good for me to be mean or to make anyone
Speaker 4: wrong or right. So I want to have healthy boundaries.
Speaker 4: But sometimes there are voices that are sometimes like you
Speaker 4: deserve blah blah blah, you should be telling him blah
Speaker 4: blah blah. You should be you know, like put your
Speaker 4: foot down with blah blah blah, And it's like not always.
Speaker 5: Helpful with no, you don't want you're not trying to
Speaker 5: like get anything out of him. You have to treat
Speaker 5: him with the same grace and respect that you want.
Speaker 5: You guys have the perfect scenario, like you are both
Speaker 5: like married, so when you're eighteen, you know you're a baby.
Speaker 5: Like I think that sometimes we think we're supposed to
Speaker 5: have heartbreak in order to justify the love or make
Speaker 5: the love this great love afair. The heartbreak has to
Speaker 5: be equal to it. And then this situation, I feel
Speaker 5: like you can transition out with love and respect and
Speaker 5: a plan and like not feel betrayal or heartbroke and
Speaker 5: just be like, I'm so glad I had you for
Speaker 5: this tumultuous time and to create this baby. And now
Speaker 5: I want to support you. Why you discover who you
Speaker 5: are and I'm going to discover who I am and
Speaker 5: I'm going to become financially independent. And then as soon
Speaker 5: as I am financially independent and have my own identity
Speaker 5: and self actualization, maybe you'll fall back in love with
Speaker 5: him when your child's fifteen, maybe when he's ten. You
Speaker 5: know it's but you need to be financially independent and
Speaker 5: emotionally independent and you have the capabilities to do it.
Speaker 5: Just because he defined you from eighteen on doesn't mean
Speaker 5: he has any bearing on who you might be for
Speaker 5: the next fifteen years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what your example with your friendship?
Speaker 2: You know, the two best friends you guys both have
Speaker 2: that are married, Like, that's a great place to start
Speaker 2: to be, Like, Okay, hey, listen, I know I'm best friend,
Speaker 2: Like I don't want that to change, like I would
Speaker 2: love in an ideal world, like paint the picture of
Speaker 2: how you would like your relationship to proceed past this point.
Speaker 2: I mean during the time that you're living together. Of course,
Speaker 2: you know whatever you need. You don't want to be
Speaker 2: disrespected or devalued in any way. But other than that,
Speaker 2: that's a great way to just set up some boundaries.
Speaker 1: I mean, what boundaries do you want. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: a couple.
Speaker 4: I'm mainly concerned, like I feel like very I've been
Speaker 4: reading my Let It Go. Thank you, Chelsea. It's been
Speaker 4: super helpful, and I have been finding my spirituality again
Speaker 4: because for a long timehether, I'm sure you can relate
Speaker 4: to this, it was just like no religion, no spirituality,
Speaker 4: like get away from you with your dogma. But I
Speaker 4: feel like this has broken me open to a place
Speaker 4: where I can be open to other versions of spirituality
Speaker 4: that work for me. And I have essentially felt a
Speaker 4: lot of ownership over this man because of our relationship,
Speaker 4: and I've invested in his career and everything, and so
Speaker 4: I'm afraid that those attachments are going to get really
Speaker 4: mad when I see him dating other women and when
Speaker 4: I have to come face to face with him having
Speaker 4: a relationship with somebody else, having no control over who
Speaker 4: he dates. And I mean, what if.
Speaker 5: Now he's a doctor, he's an MD. You support him
Speaker 5: through school. Now he's going to take his new girlfriend,
Speaker 5: who beautiful.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's rich's And I'm just like my ego's mad,
Speaker 4: Like I put in all of the work, and it's
Speaker 4: to stay in a marriage that doesn't make me happy. No,
Speaker 4: not going to use that excuse to stay in a
Speaker 4: marriage that doesn't make me happy. But it's going to
Speaker 4: be hard for me to watch somebody else do all
Speaker 4: of that. So I'm I want to be together as
Speaker 4: much as possible for the baby. And we're considering like
Speaker 4: staying in the same house for longer. And I don't
Speaker 4: know if we should do that financially. We don't live
Speaker 4: in a city where it's cheap to have two places.
Speaker 1: It's just how long are you considering staying in the
Speaker 1: same house.
Speaker 4: Well, we have to until June, possibly August, and then.
Speaker 5: We'll keep having sex with him. That's my advice. Don't
Speaker 5: begin your hoar phase and tell you have a separate
Speaker 5: place to live.
Speaker 4: But yeah, oh no, no, I definitely won't. And we've
Speaker 4: already said boundaries. I was like, you can know whatever
Speaker 4: you're going to do out there, but don't bring anything
Speaker 4: near our child, and don't bring anything in the house anyone.
Speaker 1: Good.
Speaker 2: That's how that's nice because I would have even said,
Speaker 2: you can say, let's not let's both put that on
Speaker 2: pause until we leave the house, like I would have. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's already good. Listen, you're more scared of what
Speaker 2: your reaction might be than what it is gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Once you see your ex soon to be X with
Speaker 2: another person, you're gonna be over it. It's the anticipation
Speaker 2: of that moment that is bigger than that moment.
Speaker 5: Tell that to Betty Broderick, Chelsea, tell that to Betty.
Speaker 1: Well for for for normal fucking people. Okay, because I wanted.
Speaker 5: To drive a car over Billy when I got on
Speaker 5: his phone, So it triggers everyone generally. But he happens
Speaker 5: to be more evolved.
Speaker 2: But I'm saying this with this head start that they have,
Speaker 2: they've already agreed to go. They're separate ways. It's not
Speaker 2: like you're finding him with some woman in the middle
Speaker 2: of a marriage. This is a much different scenario, right.
Speaker 2: This is you coming into your own. This is like
Speaker 2: the age of your enlightenment. You know, keep reading books
Speaker 2: like Letting Go, keep investing in your spirituality and your steadiness,
Speaker 2: because those are going to be the tools that you
Speaker 2: need when you feel like you're going to fly off
Speaker 2: the handle or get jealous, or react to something in
Speaker 2: a way that you're going to regret. All of that
Speaker 2: is in spirituality, right. They give you all this information
Speaker 2: about how to control yourself, not in a religious way,
Speaker 2: not in a way that they're indoctrinating you, in a
Speaker 2: way that you're a more healthy human balance being right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: where you know your self worth, You have a connection
Speaker 2: with yourself, You have a relationship with yourself. And I
Speaker 2: think that you're anticipating all these things and the fact
Speaker 2: that you're talking about it and being proactive about it.
Speaker 2: I think you're going to be just fine. This is
Speaker 2: going to be a huge growth opportunity for you and
Speaker 2: your world is about to begin in a whole new way.
Speaker 2: Oh why did you leave a church?
Speaker 1: What happened? You didn't like that religion?
Speaker 4: It was incorrect, it was not true. No, I converted
Speaker 4: as a teenager and then I went to BUYU and
Speaker 4: right after marrying my husband, I transferred to schools, and
Speaker 4: at BUYU they force you to, like stud you have
Speaker 4: to take religion classes every semester. And it was two
Speaker 4: weeks into my first semester that I was like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 4: what do I believe? Because I don't think that's right.
Speaker 4: And I've just always I was raised by people who
Speaker 4: are like southern California spiritualists, and I was not raised
Speaker 4: in this church. And then I had some really close
Speaker 4: friends at BUYU who sort of came out and were saying, like,
Speaker 4: they're just gonna live celibate and they were going to
Speaker 4: stay in the church and they didn't want their sexuality
Speaker 4: to come between them and God. And I just saw,
Speaker 4: I mean, they have every right to do whatever they want,
Speaker 4: but like seeing somebody sacrifice their happiness, I just oh,
Speaker 4: I can't. I can't just like be a cafeteria Mormon.
Speaker 1: I have to leave.
Speaker 4: It's not gonna I get it.
Speaker 5: I get it totally so and that alone takes so
Speaker 5: much strength, and like you already know that you have
Speaker 5: like the hood spots to like, yeah, that's it's through this,
Speaker 5: you know, and so it's in you. I mean not
Speaker 5: to make it about me, but I married a man
Speaker 5: with money, and I thought I got in the golden ticket.
Speaker 5: I helped him support whatever, and that you kind of
Speaker 5: feel like you pay your dues and then you get
Speaker 5: to sit pretty for the rest of your life and
Speaker 5: there's no such thing. It feels different, it spends different,
Speaker 5: like earn it yourself, find out what you want to do,
Speaker 5: and not live on a stipend or a doll from anybody,
Speaker 5: you know, because it doesn't matter. The second I decided
Speaker 5: that it was me, I wasn't going to find some
Speaker 5: night to fix it. I was so much happier, and
Speaker 5: I was like forty and fat and like all the
Speaker 5: things you know, and it just you don't know what
Speaker 5: you can do until you're forced to do it. So
Speaker 5: let it motivate you, you know, instead of being angry that
Speaker 5: he has it all and you gave it to him,
Speaker 5: get it for yourself.
Speaker 2: Listen, and there's a bigger purpose that you can't see, right,
Speaker 2: there is a bigger purpose. Yes, you helped him, and
Speaker 2: you helped his career and you helped him get settled.
Speaker 1: Great, that's great, that's good karma.
Speaker 2: You wiped somebody come into their own and now he's
Speaker 2: gonna be he can help you with your kid for
Speaker 2: the rest of your life.
Speaker 1: He's going to be responsible like that.
Speaker 2: That isn't something to say, Oh I can't believe it
Speaker 2: or be angry about.
Speaker 1: That's good vibes.
Speaker 5: That's the father of your baby.
Speaker 1: As long as you don't hold it over his head,
Speaker 1: it's good vibes.
Speaker 3: And to get biblical about it, like, leave tomorrow's problems
Speaker 3: for tomorrow. We'll only worry about what we need today.
Speaker 3: I'm bringing it twelve years of question school.
Speaker 5: I mean that that makes.
Speaker 1: Roota or not. I feel like all religions should be represented.
Speaker 5: We need a she I'm sitzeeing here.
Speaker 2: Is there a sheep in the house? Okay, so Meg,
Speaker 2: I have a question for you.
Speaker 1: What do you do for a living?
Speaker 4: This is the only time in my career I've been
Speaker 4: completely unemployed, so it's kind of bad timing there. But
Speaker 4: I have a teaching license. I'm a public school teacher.
Speaker 1: Oh great, so nice.
Speaker 4: Yes, what you always say about having kids is totally correct. Though,
Speaker 4: now that I have one of my own, I don't
Speaker 4: have the bandwidth to go back into America's public school system,
Speaker 4: especially in the schools where I was working. I mean
Speaker 4: Chicago Public schools and in Aurora, Colorado, Like I've been
Speaker 4: working in places that I haven't worked in easy schools,
Speaker 4: and it was really rewarding and I learned a lot
Speaker 4: and I failed a lot. But I'm looking now to
Speaker 4: pivot to use what I've learned in a way that's
Speaker 4: not classroom teaching, just because when you have young kids
Speaker 4: of your own, absorbing thirty kids, everything every day is
Speaker 4: just a.
Speaker 2: Lot, right, So are you thinking about tutoring or something
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I am looking at a master's program where
Speaker 4: I can become a dyslexia therapist, or my real reach
Speaker 4: would be a clinical psychology masters and eventual PhD, because
Speaker 4: I would love to do counseling, Like that's the best
Speaker 4: part of teaching, is doing the emotional work.
Speaker 1: When we get off Google.
Speaker 2: There was an article on the Sunday New York Times
Speaker 2: about psychoanalysis and the optick and the people who are
Speaker 2: training to be psychoanalysts, and it was about Freud, but
Speaker 2: it talks about like the offshoots and all these people.
Speaker 2: Now it's a real rising field all psychology. So yeah,
Speaker 2: so that sounds good. Okay, well you're all set listen,
Speaker 2: You're fucking beautiful.
Speaker 5: You're not the only fans I suggest the only fans I.
Speaker 1: Suggested to you, Heather, I suggested it for you. I'll
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 5: Sure, let's see how many subscribers.
Speaker 2: But Meg, for sure, Meg, you're gonna be This is
Speaker 2: going to be a great life for you.
Speaker 1: I'm almost jealous.
Speaker 5: Same same.
Speaker 4: Thanks perspective.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you got any advice?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 5: I do.
Speaker 4: I do want to ask Color something. So he's currently
Speaker 4: like he doesn't want to be a bad guy, and
Speaker 4: he's very much like, well, you'll stay legally married to
Speaker 4: me as long as you want. You can stay on
Speaker 4: my health insurance. We can split the money. And that's
Speaker 4: I think, very generous. While I'm getting on my speech,
Speaker 4: but I really don't want to do that thing, like
Speaker 4: that golden ticket thing that you're talking about, So like,
Speaker 4: just listen.
Speaker 5: That was a lot of bullshit what I was just saying.
Speaker 5: If they're willing to pay, take the money, but take
Speaker 5: the money, but don't bank on the money. Take the
Speaker 5: money like it's a scholarship or it's invested. It's seed
Speaker 5: money to become the person you want to.
Speaker 3: Be, independent, transitional money.
Speaker 2: It's a great way to think about it. Because you're
Speaker 2: after a while. You're not gonna want his money anyway.
Speaker 2: You're gonna want your own independence, but you're.
Speaker 5: Gonna want money. If he's taking his new girlfriend and
Speaker 5: living in a mansion on a doctor's thing and you're
Speaker 5: doing the school thing, it's gonna it's gonna great for
Speaker 5: the rest of your life. So fight hard now with
Speaker 5: a good attorney, without being angry, but just knowing that
Speaker 5: you can be nice to the of your life when
Speaker 5: he's got the MD salary and you're you know, working
Speaker 5: with the kids reading program. Just try to balance out
Speaker 5: and make sure you just preserve your peace at all costs.
Speaker 5: Don't bet Rebroaderick because that's pretty much what I go
Speaker 5: to on everything, and that didn't work out well for her.
Speaker 5: So don't drive your suburban through his front door when
Speaker 5: he's with his new girlfriend.
Speaker 2: So that's how about just don't drive a suburban because
Speaker 2: the world is melted.
Speaker 5: Listen, she has a backgrounded Mormonism. A suburban is at
Speaker 5: the top of her list.
Speaker 4: But now I only have to have one child, So
Speaker 4: there there you go.
Speaker 2: You're saving the planet. Congratulations, Thank you for that. Yes,
Speaker 2: thank you, Megan, was nice to speak with you. Thanks
Speaker 2: for calling in.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. You guys are amazing.
Speaker 1: Take care, Thank you bye.
Speaker 3: She and I had just talked on the phone before,
Speaker 3: not on a zoom call, and so that was a
Speaker 3: whole fun surprise to find out she's just fully gorgeous.
Speaker 1: Like Hollywood ready, Oh my god. I was looking at
Speaker 1: her like, oh oh you're beautiful.
Speaker 5: I'd like to hire you.
Speaker 2: Yes, you guys, this podcast is about feelings, okay, not looks.
Speaker 2: So let's sorry, take it downny.
Speaker 5: Beauty is currency.
Speaker 3: So we'll take a quick break and we'll be right
Speaker 3: back to close out.
Speaker 1: And we're back.
Speaker 3: Well, okay, so we can quickly get Alisa laid. Her
Speaker 3: question is get her laid? She needs to get laid.
Speaker 1: She's newly divorced, so.
Speaker 5: No experience in this. I'll try, she says.
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea, my sex drive is high, my trust in people.
Speaker 1: Wait one second, Heather, you've had sex since your divorce?
Speaker 5: Right, Yes, yes, I'm going to launch full And I
Speaker 5: was just saying, like, it's not my forte getting laid,
Speaker 5: but I'll work on it.
Speaker 1: Got it.
Speaker 3: Well, I'll just kind of skim over this and she's
Speaker 3: going to join us here. She's intimidated by on line dating,
Speaker 3: she doesn't really know the etiquette. She does want to
Speaker 3: go out there and start having like one night stands
Speaker 3: or hooking up with guys, but she's not totally sure
Speaker 3: how to go about it. So she says, how do
Speaker 3: I have casual sex when I can't make the first move? Alisa?
Speaker 4: Hi?
Speaker 1: Lisa?
Speaker 5: Hi, Lisa, I like your style first casual sex girl,
Speaker 5: Let's talk about it.
Speaker 1: Heather Gay is our special guest today.
Speaker 2: So that's Heather. This is Catherine, I'm me Hi, Hi,
Speaker 2: How are you good?
Speaker 5: Thank you?
Speaker 2: So you're looking to get some action, First of all,
Speaker 2: you should use dating sites because that's the quickest way
Speaker 2: to make that happen. Unless you're just gonna go walk
Speaker 2: down the street to the bar and pick up a guy.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 2: But if you're embarrassed about making a first move, is
Speaker 2: that what it is?
Speaker 1: Are you scared?
Speaker 2: I got a little shy around boys too sometimes if
Speaker 2: I like them, Yeah, making the first move.
Speaker 6: Like I was, I socialized a lot when I was younger,
Speaker 6: but these days, I'm kind of more of an introvert
Speaker 6: and a homebody.
Speaker 5: So, well, you're not going to get laid at home.
Speaker 5: You got to get out, I know, I.
Speaker 2: Know, so actually you'll get laid at home, but.
Speaker 6: Eventually, Yeah. So I've joined some hiking groups and oh
Speaker 6: good of things that I enjoyed doing. And I'm new
Speaker 6: to this province in Canada too, so I've been like
Speaker 6: going to my favorite bar, sitting at the bar, reading
Speaker 6: a book, getting a drink.
Speaker 1: Yes, I like that. That's hot. Reading a book at
Speaker 1: the bar and the city behavior.
Speaker 5: I love it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I just find with the social sites, you know, you
Speaker 6: have to sift through like so much, and then I
Speaker 6: don't know what words to use and how to communicate
Speaker 6: with people on these dating sites, and then I'm very
Speaker 6: much like I like to get a vibe. So I
Speaker 6: don't know, I just find them difficult.
Speaker 3: Well, there are certain apps that you can use if
Speaker 3: you are more interested in just hooking up.
Speaker 1: Field is one.
Speaker 3: There's a few other ones that are specifically for like
Speaker 3: they're more like hookupy. But also I think people are
Speaker 3: using Bumble, Like I have a couple of friends who
Speaker 3: are in an open marriage and they're like, we use bumble,
Speaker 3: So you know.
Speaker 1: I think you should.
Speaker 2: I think you should get on sites, get on a couple,
Speaker 2: you know, like bumble Hinge is like reputable, right, and
Speaker 2: that's the other there's another new one. Not Tinder is
Speaker 2: like a little bits old.
Speaker 1: That's too much.
Speaker 5: Yeah, plenty of fish. There's plenty of fish still poppiners.
Speaker 1: That that's from that's from the seventies. Also, howther I
Speaker 1: don't Yeah.
Speaker 6: I don't. I definitely don't want to discount that idea.
Speaker 6: I also live in a small town, so I've just
Speaker 6: the pool is pretty small.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you need to be online.
Speaker 2: It's the best way to get the most options as
Speaker 2: quickly as possible.
Speaker 1: Right, It's the most efficient way to start dating or
Speaker 1: start fooling.
Speaker 2: Around with somebody. Like whatever it is you're after, that's
Speaker 2: the way to do it. I love that you're going
Speaker 2: to a bar reading a book by yourself at the bar.
Speaker 1: Fucking awesome. Keep doing that.
Speaker 2: Join your groups, join another group, like instead of a
Speaker 2: hiking group. You know, Canadians love to do what else
Speaker 2: do they like?
Speaker 1: They like to fi? I should stay away from.
Speaker 5: That and drink beer.
Speaker 3: See I'm imagining her like going down to the docks
Speaker 3: and having like a hot fisherman with like big muscle.
Speaker 1: Muscle are no hot fishermen and dies, but go ahead, Lisa.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the ragged guys for sure, the oil riggers.
Speaker 1: I don't know what you think you're saying when you
Speaker 1: say you don't know what words to use.
Speaker 2: Like you mean like the trendy language that's going around,
Speaker 2: or abbreviations and stuff like that, Like, what do you
Speaker 2: mean by that?
Speaker 6: Well, I was chatting with this guy online on bumble
Speaker 6: years ago and he messaged me, and then I wasn't
Speaker 6: the next person to message him, Like the etiquette, you know,
Speaker 6: it's like I didn't message him back, so then you
Speaker 6: just never.
Speaker 5: Messaged me again.
Speaker 2: Oh well, don't worry. That's going to happen all the
Speaker 2: time online that there is no etiquette. You know, it's
Speaker 2: your etiquette is whatever you decide it's going to be.
Speaker 2: But you should practice just being forward with people, like,
Speaker 2: you know, do you want to have a drink?
Speaker 1: Do you want to meet for a drink?
Speaker 2: You should definitely meet them for a drink before you
Speaker 2: invite anyone to your house.
Speaker 1: Please don't do that.
Speaker 2: Or meet for you know, whatever you're into. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm into drinks, so that's what I'm going to meet for.
Speaker 2: But you know, listen, you're online. Who gives a shit
Speaker 2: you don't care if you ever see these fucking people again.
Speaker 1: It's the perfect way to be a little bit.
Speaker 2: More daring, and then with that will come you being
Speaker 2: more daring in real life, you know.
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, you hide behind the screen a little bit.
Speaker 5: And also, might I suggest they've made a song into
Speaker 5: Adam Levine's sexteen and he's really good at it, like
Speaker 5: little things to say like you're so hot, amazing, like
Speaker 5: he knows how to sex amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just say that to anything, amazing.
Speaker 5: Just whatever Adam Levine said when he was sexty people
Speaker 5: on the side. I think that's a great playbook to
Speaker 5: pull from, honestly.
Speaker 6: Okay, thank you. I also was like, I've been tuning
Speaker 6: in and bought a really good vibrator, so yeah.
Speaker 1: That's also good. What do you need today for?
Speaker 2: I know you well know that's good to get everything
Speaker 2: ready for your days, keep it moving, and.
Speaker 1: It helps to have that practice.
Speaker 3: I do think, you know, you get out of practice
Speaker 3: with that stuff, even for yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I'm revealing too much. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Because a vibrator, I mean, how do you have to
Speaker 2: practice with a vibrator.
Speaker 1: It's just just.
Speaker 5: Like small talk with your vibrator.
Speaker 1: Put it where it's supposed to go, and.
Speaker 5: Then it it's just a new tool.
Speaker 1: Are vibrator? Are you like?
Speaker 3: I mean, just like the frequency when you get out
Speaker 3: of practice, it's like you don't care about it anymore.
Speaker 1: But oh right, okay, and that's sound. Yeah, yes, I.
Speaker 6: Feel like if I have a vibe like I don't
Speaker 6: you know, I'm not like super attached or craving having
Speaker 6: this like strong craving And.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's smart. I like that angle. That's true.
Speaker 2: That way, you're not like, yeah, you just masturbate before
Speaker 2: every date. Also, so you don't have to be super
Speaker 2: super duper horny unless you need to be, and then
Speaker 2: you can whip that up again.
Speaker 5: Anyway, sometimes you need the horny to motivate you to
Speaker 5: be a little bit more forward. You know, you got
Speaker 5: to balance it. You want it to razor's edge.
Speaker 3: Really, see, how do I know you'd have an advice?
Speaker 1: Tous edge really is what it is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, give her just a little, but not too much. Amore?
Speaker 3: All right, Alisa, tell us when you get laid Okay, yes.
Speaker 5: I'll tell you how it goes.
Speaker 3: Okay, bye bye, Well you guys, solved all of her
Speaker 3: problems so fast.
Speaker 1: That was great.
Speaker 5: I just want to have like an advice show. This
Speaker 5: is like, it's motivating me. All the tips and tricks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that we're just pulling out of our asses.
Speaker 1: People are very trustworthy. All right, Well we are wrapping
Speaker 1: things up. Yeah, I mean that was an hour. What
Speaker 1: a fun hour, Heather, that.
Speaker 5: Was a fun hour. You guys, I had the best time.
Speaker 1: Awesome.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: And guys, yeah, we'll talk so okay, take care of that.
Speaker 5: I loved it. Thanks guys, appreciate bye, take care bye.
Speaker 2: And her book is called Bad Mormon, which you guys
Speaker 2: can pick up wherever you like to buy your books,
Speaker 2: hopefully at a local bookstore.
Speaker 3: Yes, and I will have a link in the show
Speaker 3: notes as well. I actually all of our links to
Speaker 3: our books that I put in the show notes go
Speaker 3: to bookshop dot org, which also donates. It's like an
Speaker 3: alternative to Amazon, but they donate to local bookshops.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so it gets to like order online. I
Speaker 1: love that. Yeah. Tabulous support books everybody. Okay, we love books.
Speaker 2: And I have just announced new stand updates for my
Speaker 2: Little Big Bitch tour. Guys, I announced twenty five new cities.
Speaker 2: These are probably a lot of the cities people have
Speaker 2: been mentioning in the comments. I start out in East Hampton.
Speaker 2: I go to New York, d C, Duram, North Carolina, LA, Phoenix, Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Chicago, Madison, Portland,
Speaker 2: to name just some. I will be performing at the
Speaker 2: Kennedy Center everybody that's in DC October sixth. I'm super
Speaker 2: psyched to be performing there. Also exciting announcement for this week.
Speaker 2: I just added second shows in New York, DC.
Speaker 1: Seattle, and San Francisco.
Speaker 2: So today's pre sale still so that code is little,
Speaker 2: and then general on sale starts tomorrow. Okay, yes, and
Speaker 2: I'll see everybody this weekend. I'll be in Bangor, Maine, Wallingford, Connecticut, and.
Speaker 1: Manicchello, New York. There are more.
Speaker 2: I have tour dates coming up for the next three months,
Speaker 2: and then more dates coming up in the fall.
Speaker 1: So those have all been announced. They're on my Instagram
Speaker 1: page or you can go to Chelsea Hamma dot com.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
Speaker 3: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
Speaker 3: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
Speaker 3: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and
Speaker 3: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
Speaker 3: com